#assassination
sharp zodiac
dawn ivy
they always seem to try to quietly talk about juicy stuff on stream and quietly make a post about it on wowhead
limber lion
Yeh, they did just say they're making a new bigger post about something
Maybe they rushed it with the 2 tierset changes and found way more
limber lion
Negative.
hollow river
Maybe they rushed it with the 2 tierset changes and found way more
they almost always do this
slow marsh
does anyone actually care about hte customizable bots
limber lion
hollow river
pogging pogO pocopocS
hollow river
<:exsangery:830021268207304735>
limber lion
Too bad the stream doesn't actually go over numerical datamining
Pretty much just goes over models and whatever
sharp zodiac
I mean its just what hes looking at
sharp zodiac
the others are looking at tooltip stuff
dawn ivy
one of them talking about zovall mechanics
sharp zodiac
Everytime I hear "OHHHHHH" from others in disc its driving me crazy
cerulean nest
like I said, we're starting prog lol
dawn ivy
toxic wowhead stream, he muted the others so they can talk about all the spoilers
dawn ivy
no.
hollow river
the jailer's new model man
dawn ivy
hollow river
our tier sets should be modeled after that shit
nocturne geode
poggies
dawn ivy
the jailer looks sick but his weapon is a little silly
hollow river
agree
dawn ivy
"IMMA BEAT YOU TO DEATH WITH MY HEAD"
nocturne geode
time to crack open the gamer fuel
sharp zodiac
It'll be like Christmas when you get up.
dawn ivy
if we got shrouded back as 2p we'd need triple shrouded
limber lion
we can talent exsang 😈
Talent + 4p exsang
Double exsang better than 1
More is better
hollow river
Double exsang better than 1
checks out 👍
toxic onslaught also new bis confirmed 👍
limber lion
I'll go to bed now
jaunty steeple
limber lion
But wake me up when we have shrouded suffocation
oak sky
Go to bed
limber lion
dawn ivy
oh no cev is dead
dawn ivy
Guess ur dead then
lol
nocturne geode
yikes
oak sky
Theres an NA forums one too
steel bane
Please ask for a Necrolord legendary rework 
oak sky
I think its for tier set feedback
steel bane
Sadge
hollow river
Yeah it is
slow marsh
Can't remove embed on mobile rip
slow marsh
It's fixed
hollow river
What’s fixed
slow marsh
Not the imperial version
.
fading wigeon
Can I wake up? Did we get shrouded suffocation?
slow marsh
No
limber lion
Not yet
fading wigeon
Damn
limber lion
Patience my child.
fading wigeon
Make it hapn capn cev
slow marsh
We will attack them on all fronts
limber lion
Aye aye
slow marsh
On both EU and na forums
hollow river
We will storm the embassy!
slow marsh
We will not hold back and we will not surrender
hollow river
Send them real life letters in the mail!
slow marsh
Yeah in December probay not
hollow river
Drive to Blizzard HQ and DEMAND our rights be respected!
hollow river
Yeah in December probay not
I’m calling upon all my west coaster rogue boiz
Whispyr, skip, agroaner, decaf, whoever else idk
hollow river
slow marsh
If we've learned anything over the last 4 months about blizzard it's that it doesn't matter how much protesting, demanding and walkouts you do, they'll still try to cover it up
hollow river
we will not let this blasphemy go unknown
oak sky
Drive to Blizzard HQ and DEMAND our rights be respected!
I could handle it
Its like 20 min from my parents house
And i have christmas break for school starting a week from fridau
hollow river
our first contender 
slow marsh
Go spray paint justice for assassination on the orc statue
fading wigeon
Just wear a shroud, suffocate a dev, and say that's what we want. Gg
slow marsh
It's not vandalism it's a protest
strange python
Rather just wait for our tier rework
Just like our crimson vial and pickpocket flavor?
dawn ivy
im pretty sure murdering a dev would not be considered VANDALISM
i THINK theres a different word
fading wigeon
im pretty sure murdering a dev would not be considered VANDALISM
Woah Woah you crazy people, not saying to murder someone, just suffocate until they pass out, and then pull back
What do you think I'm crazy?
slow marsh
I do not condone the use of suffocation as a means of protest
oak sky
Pull back like they will with our player power
dawn ivy
oooooooh HAHAHA
oak sky
:)
slow marsh
Pull back like they will with our player power
LMAO
hollow river
Possibly a better set bonus
spice spire
But hold the fort.
slow marsh
I don't see any posts on the us feedback forrum yet it's been an hour
Are we waiting for me or what
spice spire
I don't see any posts on the us feedback forrum yet it's been an hour
I just finished dinner.
Soon
spice spire
As a bastion of being an OTP. I’ll comment on assassination only ofc
strange python
Woah Woah you crazy people, not saying to murder someone, just suffocate until t...
Why everyone kinkshaming you?
plush isle
Good Guy Seliathan
oak sky
I might write in on the NA side
dawn ivy
my scathing reeport is almost finished
slow marsh
I'm about to type out a little something something when I hop back on my PC
oak sky
Damn they just made a whole ass post thst theyre reworking the rsham tier set
This is great news
slow marsh
Oh snaps a full rework? There's hope afterall
oak sky
Exactly
I wouldnt be shocked if everyone ends up happy
They reaaaaally want tier sets to be a slam dunk
cobalt pelican
the rsham one was egregiously bad though
they were trying to make them press a button they press absolutely 0 times atm but the payoff was so bad they'd basically not get one
spice spire
i mean sin is looking bad, but not quite that bad
twilit hollow
Seli doing gods work in rogue thread
cobalt pelican
can only approved community cronklers post in these threads
or why is there not people posting ascii tiddies yet
marble hemlock
Seli doing gods work in rogue thread
plush isle
So if we could be Gamedesigners would we change the whole T-Set like they know do with Restro or would you tweek the Boni to be "Stronger", i mean if the 2 Set Boni would include Poison their would be a slight power spike, i like the idea of the 4 set boni design, mabye a stronger Exsanguinate Effekt or some kind of Instant Burst where all Dots would finish instant (PVP-Problems ignored) would have a nice twist to our playstyle.
marble hemlock
2pc isnt worth keeping in any way unless the bonuses it provides get a lot higher
personally i feel like having a poison-specific debuff also apply to bleeds is kinda counter to what should happen, i talked about it before but i always liked the late legion/early bfa approach of having poisons be what deals our dmg in st, and bleeds be what deals our damage in aoe
plush isle
What if Envenome would count too ?
slow marsh
Holy i thought i was gonna be short but it's def not
marble hemlock
so multidotting bleeds etc. for aoe, and more focus on poison procs/envenom on st
slow marsh
I'm suggesting they make 2p dynamic shiv usage or just change it to be like a shrouded suff type effect for all bleeds/poisons
marble hemlock
like, going back to legion, we gotta remember that we actualyl had 2 different playable builds, a poison and a bleed one
its why assa used to have 2 colors on discord too
spec-colors, that is
the current red for bleed-enthusiasts, and the current green for poison ones
i always like to call it a bit of an "identity crisis" where we have 2 different types of debuffs, that are both mixed and thrown together to accomplish the same goal, whereas i feel it should be a more specific purpose behind each type. in legion we had envenom, kb, tb, agonizing poison, or in bfa we had doubledose/nothing personal all pushing a nature-damage based st identity
whereas the multidotting of garrotes, ruptures together with CT was what pushed our cleave and aoe damage forward
cobalt pelican
you'd really need a lot more than a tier set to support that, though, and the most you'd get at this point is a 'hey this concept is cool'
dawn ivy
10.0 ideas though 
marble hemlock
oh absolutely. but having a set bonus that further mixes both damage types with lack of rental-power support in the backend, makes it a bit of an undesirable approach, at least to me
i.e. just look at how the pistol shot based bonus works with conduits, legendaries etc.
the shiv one doesnt do any of that
we have a shiv conduit, a shiv legendary, but theres no synergy there right now
oak sky
Even the outlaw 2 set has synergy with their garbage 4 set
marble hemlock
one thing i suggested in SL beta, was for tiny toxic blades to spread the shiv debuff to all targets around it, but then poisons deal so little damage on aoe, that it would barely make a difference anyway
oak sky
Our sets dont exactly go together, they kinda ish work together because we use shiv in vendetta but it doesnt feel as together as other sets do imo
plush isle
But how realistic is it that they now still revise the whole design, the shamans have also complained a lot, we would have to make ourselves known to the same extent to force far-reaching changes.
On the subject of Bleeds and Poisons is not also by the change of the Mastery by Blizzard that the subject is becoming more and more insignificant, a change of Poison and Bleed specific talents would be easier.
lost wharf
I always saw Assa more as a melee dot spec like shadow or affli. I never really digged the whole concept of having big envenoms or anything. I prefer the approach of "Deal damage with dots and burst more damage by applying buffs/debuffs that make these dots stronger".
marble hemlock
I mean, its the same thing we can always do: Provide feedback, and hope its not too late to have things reconsidered.
Gotta keep trying, hopefully some of it will stick
oak sky
I dont mind a combined bleed and poison identity it just needs to be blended well, stuff like venomous wounds existing in our kit is really cool
From an identity standpoint
marble hemlock
Talked about it multiple times before, but the only people who have a right to complain, are the ones who provide feedback to at least try to change things
plush isle
true
slow marsh
K I put in my 2c
marble hemlock
I remember weak and I logging in during SL beta every week after every update
To test the same 20 things on our "bug" list
And report the same bugs week after week 😄
oak sky
Maybe we can get the poison bug fixed one day
marble hemlock
One of the issues the community has as a whole, is that inaction is seen as the devs being ignorant or not reading feedback. Just because theres no changes, doesnt mean the feedback wasnt read.
cobalt pelican
it's kinda concerning that some bugs that are clearly on their bug board have survived like
actual years
oak sky
One of the issues the community has as a whole, is that inaction is seen as the ...
It means it wasnt valued
marble hemlock
I mean, weve seen what happened when they tried to address some of the SBS bugs
oak sky
Which is much more concerning
lost wharf
It means it wasnt valued
It means that the devs have a different opinion and disagree with the feedback, hence not changing anything.
marble hemlock
It means it wasnt valued
Why? Youre basically saying "if you disagree with the changes i want made, you dont value my opinion"
What if someone else has a different or even opposing opinion?
oak sky
I mean if the devs read it and never act on it
marble hemlock
Do you feel youre in a position to judge the validity of the feedback that is being given? More so than the people who actually have ALL the feedback at their fingertips?
slow marsh
That's even worse cuz you're straight ignoring the feedback and not even addressing that you disagree or whatever
lost wharf
it's kinda concerning that some bugs that are clearly on their bug board have su...
I never play PvP, but a friend of mine said, that you now don't lose poisons anymore when you enter and/or leave an Arena. That took ages to fix.
marble hemlock
You also dont lose poisons anymore when finishing a torghast run. Was the same thing, basically
But how important is fixing a bug where the player-based solution is to reapply a buff that has a 1.5second cast time?
slow marsh
Yeah idk I don't really care about that stuff tbh
oak sky
It was just annoying
lost wharf
Yea, I know. It wasn't a big issue. I just wanted to give an example.
marble hemlock
Some important bugs are easy to fix, some are incredibly hard. Some very minor or purely cosmetic bugs are super easy to fix, and others super hard. At the end of the day you have a limited amount of devs and programmers, and only so much time in any given day, to fix things already in the game, while also being on a development schedule for new content
slow marsh
I think the biggest thing people are wanting is just better communication
plush isle
That the Devs doenst react on Feedback is a hyperbole, lets look at the Slice and Dice Change for Sin Rogues, felt clunky, was changed.
marble hemlock
Some bugs are hard to reproduce, or may seem simple to fix from an armchair-dev PoV, but might be much harder to fix within the actual codebase. We lack a lot of information on what is happening behind the scenes
slow marsh
You don't have to fix all the feedback suggestions or whatever but you should at least have some kind of communication acknowledging that you've seen it
lost wharf
That's even worse cuz you're straight ignoring the feedback and not even address...
That's just the political approach and also a time saving one. You couldn't possibly react to every feedback given.
slow marsh
Ofc not
marble hemlock
You also gotta keep in mind that theres quite a few steps between Reproducing a bug within the game, and actually fixing the code that lead to it.
slow marsh
Nobody is expecting them to react to EVERY single piece of feedback
cobalt pelican
in the case of stuff like the sbs bug which was 100% replicatable, or simple number changes like outlaw flurry functionality there's basically no excuse for them to not be fixed quickly
marble hemlock
One other problem is filtering feedback. A game played by this many people is probably getting hundreds of thousands of bug and feedback reports. You need a way to tag them properly and filter them, to be able to assign priorities to them before theyre being handled or forwarded to specific devs
slow marsh
But like man you should be able to give us something acknowledging that we exist and you're we're not being completely ignored. Cuz that's the biggest issue I think wow players have had for a bit let alone rogues
cobalt pelican
realistically if the stance is 'it's a lot more complicated than it seems' then yeah, sure, but in the end that doesn't excuse incompetence either in the current state or in the state that lead to the mess
slow marsh
realistically if the stance is 'it's a lot more complicated than it seems' then ...
Then just make a blue post saying it's a lot more complicated but we're working on something. Like that's not too hard right?
oak sky
But like man you should be able to give us something acknowledging that we exist...
The tier set feedback looks promising, i genuinely think theyre headed in a good direction
marble hemlock
realistically if the stance is 'it's a lot more complicated than it seems' then ...
Oh for sure, there's definitely situations where I felt like the result was either caused by ignorance or incompetence, and neither one of those reasons is one that makes me very happy.
lost wharf
But like man you should be able to give us something acknowledging that we exist...
Sure, that's the general criticism that is perfectly valid: The WoW team doesn't communicate enough.
marble hemlock
i.e. the SBS "bugfix" or "rework" is smth im genuinely upset with
plush isle
But we have to acknowledge that the Leaks 2 Years ago about the hidden Feedback Forum that was abandoned and later ridiculed by Blizzard Staff was not the best advertisement for good Customer-Developer Communication
marble hemlock
oh for sure
slow marsh
Personally I don't care if they fix everything and I obviously know that it's an impossible feat. I just want to know that they care. And you show that via communication
strange python
I know but I want it
slow marsh
The tier set feedback looks promising, i genuinely think theyre headed in a good...
I don't know it's been 10 mins since i've posted and no response yet i'm kind of sus
strange python
Cause I can vantus guardian this week
marble hemlock
If Blizzard is lacking one thing right now, then it is people who operate between the Community and the developers. People who can contextualize the design and programming priorities and goals for the community, and who are able to take community feedback and put it forward when things are somewhat urgent, or being able to translate the gamer-language into one that coders/programmers can use efficiently to find and fix problems
oak sky
I don't know it's been 10 mins since i've posted and no response yet i'm kind of...
I would be plenty happy if they responded by the next ptr patch
plush isle
I don't know it's been 10 mins since i've posted and no response yet i'm kind of...
whats the Time in California ?
oak sky
5 pm
cobalt pelican
in an optimal scenario i want to land in a place where i trust that the people behind the game know what they're doing strongly enough that even if changes are against the grain (which they can be, and be great) there's some reason to believe it's intentional and going somewhere
marble hemlock
I.e. us saying smth like "sbs conduit doesnt work with zoldyck" isnt smth a dev might reasonably understand. Saying "the conduit spell ID isnt whitelisted in the zoldyck buff effect#3" is much more useful to someone working on the actual data.
cobalt pelican
i don't ever want to be in a world where blizzard rely on community feedback for 100% of design choices
because honestly, players are fucking stupid
(sometimes)
lost wharf
This whole buff bs has made much less interested in try harding for logs. I hate the whole shenanigans you can do. Just remove all the dps buffs you can give to others. Or at least only keep those that are raid wide and permanent like warrior and mage.
marble hemlock
in an optimal scenario i want to land in a place where i trust that the people b...
Internal consistency and somewhat regular posts about what the design goals are and how they plan on approaching them help a lot in that regard. I think the classic/tbc team is doing a great job with that, for example
oak sky
Yeah, blizz devs are probably finishing up for the day soon
marble hemlock
Oftnetimes when theres changes or improvements made to the TBC/classic client, its not just a patch note, but a short note on what the goal is and what the reason for the change from the original behavior is
cobalt pelican
yeah definitely, but i think in the case of something like that i'd almost always rather it be a charismatic/personable dev delivering rather than a mediator community person
marble hemlock
I often like to compare it to the balance/design manifestos GGG does for PoE, which are very helpful in understanding where the game is headed
cobalt pelican
it's very hard to find a mediator/community figure type that can relay everything properly
marble hemlock
But a dev is supposed to be good at his job
dawn ivy
so at this point its likely we dont get ptr online, yeah
marble hemlock
PR isnt really a devs job, and it shouldnt be either
cobalt pelican
yeah i know, but it shouldn't be viewed as pr
strange python
Blizzard could unironically learn a LOT from Riot on how to communicate balance and patch notes
marble hemlock
But thats what it is. Its not marketing, its just PR, as by the definition of the word
cobalt pelican
i have no idea who does the tbc stuff tbh
like who writes up the posts and interfaces with the community
lost wharf
I wouldn't mind doing PR as a dev, I think I'd be quite good at it if it was just about making forum posts. However it takes time from doing things you actually need a dev for.
strange python
Riot does a fantastic job at going into test cycles telling you what their intentions are, and then outlining them when patches go live. Blizzard just kinda throws shit out there
marble hemlock
You want someone likeable/charismatic, who also has enough of a programming background to be able to understand and use community feedback and push it towards the people that are most likely to be able to do smth with it
cobalt pelican
basically, yes
it sounds unrealistic but it really isn't at most top tier companies
like that talent is what makes blizzard blizzard, or has in the past
lost wharf
It's not unrealistic at all. It's just pricey.
marble hemlock
I personally feel like Ion struggled and still struggles a lot with being the figurehead of the game, while also being the lead designer
nocturne geode
raid testing friday lol that was quick
marble hemlock
He shouldnt have to do both
cobalt pelican
without being like, inflammatory, or anything
i just don't think ion is good at the job
oak radish
Seli i hope blizz wont listen your rogue set feedback for outlaw :D. If they listen outlaw will be deleted from game. Since its deleted from m+ it wont exist on raid too. I guess thats what you want and be happily play your beloved assa spec in peace 😄 . Blade flurry focused set can kill outlaw raid viability
oak sky
Friday like in 2 days friday?
cobalt pelican
not that the job is impossible
nocturne geode
strange python
An external comms person would cost blizzard 300k a year to do what Seli is talking about. That's not a lot of money to a blizzard sized company.
Source: work in external comms.
marble hemlock
Seli i hope blizz wont listen your rogue set feedback for outlaw :D. If they lis...
Depends on the way the set works, since its not entirely unlikely youll be using BF on singletarget for a DPS gain
plush isle
because honestly, players are fucking stupid
Of course, you shouldn't directly implement the unfiltered opinion of the players into the game, but I would love to be there when Blizzard employees make decisions such as buffs for certain classes and concepts like "Bring the Player not the Class" simply abolish and thus develop the game totally contrary to the previous approach.
marble hemlock
Outlaw isnt that far behind on ST, and the 2pc alone is better than both Assa sets combined
cobalt pelican
i think wows balance is very good atm given how complex the game is
there are some irrefutably stupid shit like raid buffs that still exist somehow
oak radish
I am talking about if they change it to Blade flurry one tho 😄
dawn ivy
its decent
lost wharf
An external comms person would cost blizzard 300k a year to do what Seli is talk...
It costs way more. It's not just the person you need, but it also costs time of the devs to communicate with said person.
dawn ivy
there are only a few outliers in regards to balance
marble hemlock
If a second set bonus were to further boost Main Gauche procrate while BF is active, for example, it would also benefit the singletarget
cobalt pelican
but blizzard will literally never be able to get the classes to a point where 'bring the player not the class' is a 100% true statement till the community itself changes
strange python
It costs way more. It's not just the person you need, but it also costs time of ...
It really doesn't. To do the job seli is talking about you only need 1 person, not a whole team. It's a very specific job.
And it's frankly not that much time from the dev team.
marble hemlock
And if you think that I'm suggesting smth solely to undermine Outlaw and push an Assa agenda, then I think you misunderstood what I was going for.
lost wharf
It really doesn't. To do the job seli is talking about you only need 1 person, n...
Yea, how is that person supposed to get all the info tho? The time adds up really quick. Communication ways are very tricky in practice.
strange python
but blizzard will literally never be able to get the classes to a point where 'b...
True. See: feral. Does pretty insane damage and honestly would serve as a functional rogue replacement for plenty of guilds if the player was good, yet none will consider them.
oak radish
And if you think that I'm suggesting smth solely to undermine Outlaw and push an...
Thats the joke part in the post, we all know you love assa 10x more than other specs
marble hemlock
It really doesn't. To do the job seli is talking about you only need 1 person, n...
Nah, you need more than just 1 person. You need people who work under you, who condense all the feedback, and brief you on the most important issues so you can then look at htem. You'd also have to be a part of most dev/programmer meetings to be uptodate on current development and design priorities, to know where the dev pipeline is at currently, and then have time to actually make posts and communicate all of that to devs and players
plush isle
It costs way more. It's not just the person you need, but it also costs time of ...
But you have to recognize that in WOW for years has been saved at all corners and ends, they should now invest more to maintain this game would be perhaps simply appropriate, after all, most still pay 10 dollars / euros per month and the server costs are capped at significantly less
lost wharf
True. See: feral. Does pretty insane damage and honestly would serve as a functi...
Nah, I heard many guilds considering ferals. It's just that barely any apply and if they do, they aren't good.
strange python
Yea, how is that person supposed to get all the info tho? The time adds up reall...
The job is mainly to provide the devs the feedback from the community, and to have enough knowledge of the dev's operations to not need the time. They would sit in on meetings that are already happening instead of needing more meetings.
strange python
Nah, you need more than just 1 person. You need people who work under you, who c...
I could do the job you outlined with three interns.
marble hemlock
Thats the joke part in the post, we all know you love assa 10x more than other s...
So? I'm still advocating for Outlaw to have improvements made to the setbonus, one that would benefit it in a niche its lost.
dawn ivy
if you had ulterior motives for outlaw, youd be silent
oak sky
Bottom line is seli said 2 set is solid 4 set is bad for outlaw, which cant be bad for the set overall
dawn ivy
not mention that the 4pc is worthless
plush isle
at the moment
oak sky
Nothing seli said will make the outlaw set worse or the sin set worse
cobalt pelican
nobody hates outlaw everyone hates outlaw players
plush isle
you now have a 2 set boni that is worth more than the whole set for Sin, and a Underperforming 4set Boni
marble hemlock
I made 2 suggestions for Outlaw, one st focused one, and another one that I think fits what Outlaw stood for over the last 2-3years much better than the current one, which is its unparalleled cleave capabilities. But thats a niche that Outlaw lost to a lot of other classes, and even within the Rogue class its not that much better than Assa anymore.
plush isle
we wish outlaw would be good
dawn ivy
uh oh i hit the hornets nest
people think outlaw doing good dmaage means its a good spec
lost wharf
But you have to recognize that in WOW for years has been saved at all corners an...
Blizzard or Activision are a company like any other. They want to make money. You make money by finding a balance between costs and income. I assume increasing the costs to make the game better wouldn't increase the income approrietly. As such they see no reason to make that change. The game quality doesn't matter to them in the end. It's all about money.
plush isle
seems fine to me
marble hemlock
Once Domshards are gone, I dont think Assa will be ahead of Outlaw anymore, once you add in double legendaries as well
dawn ivy
im sure youd say boomies are also a good spec
marble hemlock
Theyd be very evenly matched, at least
nocturne geode
vringe
gusty mirage
Once Domshards are gone, I dont think Assa will be ahead of Outlaw anymore, once...
I agree
nocturne geode
cringe
plush isle
Blizzard or Activision are a company like any other. They want to make money. Yo...
wasnt always the case wasnt it ? 😉
oak sky
Maybe not when they were indie
Whenever that was
In the stone age
But once you have investors you have an obligation to make them money
lost wharf
The job is mainly to provide the devs the feedback from the community, and to ha...
Integrating that feedback into the actual development still takes time. Sure you can write up feedback, give a presentation in 5 minutes. What we want is them actually providing feedback to that feedback. That often requires discussion within the dev team. Also you need to get a proper answer, which takes time, since you don't wanna spil the beans on everything.
plush isle
im sure youd say boomies are also a good spec
What are the problems of Outlaw that do not affect the other two Speccs ? genuine question
strange python
Integrating that feedback into the actual development still takes time. Sure you...
That's a different job.
gusty mirage
bruh can't yall fight about pirates in the pirate channel
plush isle
I cant stand Outlaw because of the Roll the Bones design, but I can understand why you like it, mained it in 9.0. AOE Cap Removal could be just 2 Month away, cant be the huge Problem
gusty mirage
I get it this spec's dead and everyone jumped ship, but damn
oak sky
so what im getting here is that outlaws want to keep their bad 4pc
We're really trying to help them
gusty mirage
We're really trying to help them
Don't
strange python
what if foreverguy made that same post
lost wharf
wasnt always the case wasnt it ? 😉
It was. There is just 2 different approaches you can make. You can either invest a lot of money into a very high quality product to gain a lot of income, because everybody wants your product. Or you can cut down on quality and earnings. The later now is the case, because WoW already has a lot of players. It makes sense from a money perspective to bank on that, cut down on the quality and still earn a lot. That's just how companies work.
gusty mirage
Don't forget that outlaw players brought us the wonders of "This discord is full of a bunch of sim slaves" and Guy's resting heartrate shooting up to 120bpm via the deathly saga
gusty mirage
Sim slaves
never saw that?
gusty mirage
oh I was ready to copy and paste it to you in a DM
dawn ivy
i think theres a pin of it somewhere
oak sky
I mean i think i did
gusty mirage
just let the outlaw players mald that someone who's been playing rogue forever suggesting something that makes their spec interesting
who cares
they're always crying about something
like the ones who think uncapping them will magically make them compete with WW monk
oak sky
True
plush isle
It was. There is just 2 different approaches you can make. You can either invest...
Was talking about Blizzard pre WOW, more like Starcraft or Warcraft Tides, cant imagine them having the same Business Structure they have today.
marble hemlock
No set bonus is gonna fix the core issues a spec has. Its not supposed to, either
oak sky
True
marble hemlock
At best it can serve as a bandaid fix until the next proper rework is being done
i.e. what wits did in BFA
oak sky
Its just supposed to make things fun and different for a few months
lost wharf
Was talking about Blizzard pre WOW, more like Starcraft or Warcraft Tides, cant ...
That's the mindset you gotta have when you push into a market. You gotta make a quality product to make ppl come to you. Once you are established you just cruise it and cash in the earnings.
marble hemlock
Spec was unplayable in cleave/aoe, and wits actually made it a very powerful choice to other classes and rogue specs. Set bonuses can serve a similar function. But its not gonna fix system that are foundationally flawed or lack synergy with the rest of the classes design
The main issue rogue has, as a class, is that we have 3 specs and each of them has their own strength and weakness, and they all excel at something. But the differences there are maybe 10-15%, at most. Thats not enough when you compare it to other classes where the difference is 50% or 100%.
Contained within itself, rogue is well design and balanced. It just doesnt fit into the rest of the game, where some classes do absolutely absurd things
oak radish
Current state to make its cleave viable , you have to make it like insane cleave like WW monk. Otherwise its a lost cause. No spot in raid. Single target will suffer.
marble hemlock
How is changing a <1% 4pc gonna make its singletarget suffer, if you replaced it with a BF-based set bonus when you will most likely use BF on single-target due to the 2pc alone?
oak radish
I thought we were talking about whole set bonus changes , including 2pc and BF focused set. Did you mean to change only 4pc bonus ?
in that blizz post
oak radish
ok then, since 4pc is dogshit
i thought you ment whole set change focused on BF and cleave niche
marble hemlock
And the 2pc alone will elevate Outlaw to a level where itll most likely be competitive with Assa on pure ST
Nah, only one of the 2 bonuses
But if we already start using BF on st due to the 2pc, then a bf-based 4pc would work and synergize very well, while also giving Outlaw back some of its cleave strength
cerulean nest
so what are the PTR changes?
oak sky
Its basically tier sets are up, raid testing is soon, and campaign/zone testing i think
marble hemlock
Nothing for us, so far. Will have to wait until it goes up to test and see
cerulean nest
gotcha
oak sky
Or once its live anyway
marble hemlock
@oak radish i edited it so theres no confusion about the fact i was only referring to changing the 4pc
oak radish
ok seli, i also misunderstood, sorry for that
jaunty steeple
oak radish
idd, i never wanted to loose my beloved combat spec 🙂
oak radish
yep
marble hemlock
Im not even sure if having BF on st is a good thing, honestly
oak radish
it will be annoying
marble hemlock
We'll see how the tuning turns out I guess
The conduit will certainly have opportunity cost
Thematically, they could just make it so that Bladeflurry has a chance to "multistrike" and it would be beneficial for both aoe and st, for example
Theres lots of options, I just hope theyre not dead-set locked in on the 4pc, cause even if it stays and auto-shoots the BTE with max CP, i still dont think its a good bonus
oak radish
current 4pc should not stay like this unless they give it extra charge
plush isle
But what about......................two guns ? ;D
strange python
Kindred spirits only got me rank 2 :(
Stupid rank 1 got KA, faeries, pi, and fucking Autumn
oak sky
Theres lots of options, I just hope theyre not dead-set locked in on the 4pc, ca...
If anything, their statement on the rshaman tier set indicates that they are willing to make brand new tier sets
Or at least sweeping reworks
marble hemlock
Yeah, but then again their set bonuses were very "bare bones" as well
plush isle
Whats Ion's Spec ?
marble hemlock
The Outlaw 4pc seems pretty elaborate
Its a shame. Thematically its pretty neat, it just doesnt work well with the way Outlaw currently plays
oak sky
I'm sure theres a way they could make it better while keeping the base mechanics
If thats the direction they want
oak radish
Its a shame. Thematically its pretty neat, it just doesnt work well with the way...
It can work seli, if they add BTE one extra charge. So we can use that extra charge whenever we want, also can boost Greenskin legendary value
oak sky
Maybe they could empower your next bte or something like that instead of a cd reset
plush isle
Change Pistolshot Chance from 50% to 100% and make it do Double the Crit Gain ?
marble hemlock
Well, the problem is that BTE uptime is already high, and the damage itself is low
oak sky
Im not a huge idea guy tho
marble hemlock
The main issue is that you have to spend CP on that extra BTE
viscid spear
Well something about our set is going to be tweaked, don't know what but it's definitely not good enough to stay as is.
marble hemlock
Yeah, either boost the damage or have it auto-fire at a nearby target (if available), smth like that
oak sky
I'm sure they will
marble hemlock
Could also just improve the crit-bonus provided by your next BTE cast by 10 or 15%
oak sky
I said it earlier but it seems like they want everyone happy with tier sets
oak sky
Could also just improve the crit-bonus provided by your next BTE cast by 10 or 1...
Or maybe it additionally amps your pistol shots for the duration or something like that
Theres any number of things they could do
oak radish
or BTE now can increase critical dmg by %5 too :D, %10 would be so much theyu wont do
marble hemlock
Yeah, theres lots of ways to keep the bonus as it (maybe increase proc-rate a bit) to make it workable in st
plush isle
Or "Reset the Cooldown of Between the Eyes, you next Between the Eyes shots with both Hands, inflicting 2x the Damage and you gain 30% Crit for the Duration"
marble hemlock
But I've given a lot of suggestions in the past, and I always prefer elegant solutions that do not just fix one problem, but fill multiple at once
I.e. sure, you could make the ass 2pc 10x better and it would be good for what it is
But the reason I like smth like Venomous Wounds damage proc, is because it is helpful on single-target, but has more value on AoE
So it doesnt just solve the st "problem" but also helps another issue at the same time. Not to the point where the spec or class is broken, but to narrow the gap a bit
oak sky
Yeah, I'm definitely hoping for something unique if we end up with a set rework
cold rampart
is there a new rotation with mfd?
marble hemlock
Wits worked very much in the same way. It didnt just boost Outlaws AoE, but also gave it prio damage that it needed to stay relevant next to assa and sub both doing very strong prio damage
oak radish
Just make outlaw 4pc bonus like overwatch reaper ultimate, when we reach 6 bullet, we do %600 ap ability dmg everything around 🙂 can have animation like that ultimate ability 😄
marble hemlock
I mean, if we get down to the core, I always felt that Outlaw and Survival should be combined into a proper Gunslinger spec, where you weave in and out of melee with grapple and temproarily empower either your melee or ranged abilities based on the way you spend your CP
oak sky
Interesting
strange python
Whats Ion's Spec ?
Resto sham right?
oak radish
would be nice spec, dual wield pistols
oak sky
Doubt that will ever happen but maybe they would do something weird in the gunslinger space
plush isle
would be nice spec, dual wield pistols
could also have the disadvantage that you would have to be much closer to the target than normal range so 20-25 yards
marble hemlock
disengage to swap to ranged, and blade rush to swap to melee
yep, smth like that
oak radish
yea valko who knows may be next expansion they add new class
marble hemlock
always felt that survival should play that way for hunter, at least
oak sky
Tbh i think too many people would be mad
marble hemlock
and not be a fully fledged melee class
dawn ivy
that would genuinely be a VERY unique spec even if it didnt go from ranged to melee. theres no spec in the game that swaps "modes"
plush isle
yeah new class gonna be a quick, aoe heavy, leather wearing, brawler type, dont give blizzard any new ideas 😉
jaunty steeple
surv has a CD that gives them giga melee range or something, right?
dawn ivy
yeah just gives them extra range
dawn ivy
another
jaunty steeple
shaman tank spec when?
outer cairn
that would genuinely be a VERY unique spec even if it didnt go from ranged to me...
Didn’t warriors used to stance dance?
dawn ivy
yeah thats the closest thing to it
if you look at class design over the entirety of wow its kinda crazy. theyve only ever added melee specs
theyve even REMOVED a ranged spexc
so the fact that we still havent gotten a ranged class, let alone a third mail class is bizarre.
plush isle
Mail Caster, Two Range, 1 Heal, One with stationary Turrets, One with Dots, Healer with Potions and Flask
oak sky
Bard
dawn ivy
wait a mechanic class could even fit into the dumb lore of whats going on right now
oak sky
Lmao
dawn ivy
we're going to like....THE FACTORY of life and death
oak sky
Nah
marble hemlock
that would genuinely be a VERY unique spec even if it didnt go from ranged to me...
i thought they were gonna do that with a warrior spec in legion
dawn ivy
zovall is literally using some kind of fuckin weird machine
oak sky
Gotta be next xpac
dawn ivy
no yeah yeah
marble hemlock
similar to what varian did with his sword(s)
dawn ivy
10.0
marble hemlock
switching between dw and 2h
viscid spear
If they make a Bard class I'd blast Blind Guardian nonstop
marble hemlock
good choice
oak radish
it will be lame flute sounds only %100, they wont bother adding so many variations
dawn ivy
nah bard SCREAMS "im going to have multiple external buffs"
plush isle
Lore Masters would be a awesome class, could specc in to WOW Lore to explain the convoluted Plot Points Post Legion, so for every explanation he does in the Raid you deal a percentage more Damage to the Boss because you finally understand that Sylvanas did nothing wrong. 🙂
dawn ivy
it scares me now
marble hemlock
but yeah hoenstly, before adding new classes, they should flesh out some of the ones they have rn that are basically just a slightly different flavor
viscid spear
Lore Masters would be a awesome class, could specc in to WOW Lore to explain the...
I'd defend Hogger before I defend Sylvanas
oak sky
I agree seli
marble hemlock
rogue being one of them. basically all specs do the same, compare that to affli vs demo or fire vs arcane
and its entirely different things
oak sky
But i would still like a new class sometime could be cool
jaunty steeple
I really do wish they turn some of the covenant spells into talents and whatnot
viscid spear
But i would still like a new class sometime could be cool
Like was said before, I'd like a new class if it was mail
oak sky
The base idea of each spec is good for us
jaunty steeple
not just rogue, in general
oak sky
Just need some fleshing out
plush isle
dawn ivy
outlaw is probably in the worst spot as far as "identity"
dawn ivy
sub has kept its identity pretty strongly over the years, even if its sometimes been bad
viscid spear
Whatever will we do
plush isle
have to change the t set boni of outlaw, takes to much server capacity 😉
dawn ivy
as for sin, its identity has been side by side with feral
are we a dot spec? or are we a meaty envenom spec WITH some dots?
fleet whale
New ptr build, some tier bonuses change, but 0 changes to sin tier bonuses 😦
dawn ivy
just wait for the first wave of raid testing
marble hemlock
Just need some fleshing out
need more distinct strengths/weaknesses not just within the class, but within the game itself
plush isle
Only two sets changed, Shadow and Feral, Shadow got shafted
dawn ivy
tier sets got full 180s sometimes when raid testing went out in legion
oak radish
real question is what will we do other than playing sub, if they dont change assa set bonuses and outlaw 4pc bonus
marble hemlock
its not enough to have a difference of 10-15% in aoe or cleave or st between rogue specs, when other classes have specs that literally do double the burst or aoe
dawn ivy
Only two sets changed, Shadow and Feral, Shadow got shafted
shadow did not get changed in any way
marble hemlock
rogue will never be in a situation where youll be completely gimping yourself by not playing the "best" spec
viscid spear
have to change the t set boni of outlaw, takes to much server capacity 😉
You mean they have to make Outlaw viable, it requires them to take the game down for a week
plush isle
shadow did not get changed in any way
marble hemlock
its not like for other classes where playing one spec instead of another is gonna be 20-30% worse
rogue specs are usually evenly matched, at least to a certain extent
fleet whale
yeah out of all the pure dps specs, not even counting hybrids
oak radish
9.0 launch for assa was so bad iirc %30 behind
fleet whale
rogues have suffered the multi spec dps tax more than anyone
oak radish
was not it seli ?
marble hemlock
well, assa literally got 0 changes
all of beta
and it didnt stay that way very long
fleet whale
barely did more damage than tanks
oak radish
what i mean is its possible with these devs. they can fuck up and we have to wait until they fix it 😦
dawn ivy
we ate aura buffs like candy until people actually came back to the spec
marble hemlock
I mean, thatll be the case in any game
If you have a favorite hero in dota or lol, and its tuned badly, you either endure and enjoy your time regardless, or you play smth else for teh time being until the devs get around to buffing it
plush isle
Easier to tweek at the Aura Buff than change the whole class
obtuse robin
fleet whale
wouldn't mind if blizz could spice up assassin in the next expansion
plush isle
lets be real, even if you dont like the two others speccs, chances are high that one will perform.
viscid spear
wouldn't mind if blizz could spice up assassin in the next expansion
"Assassination Rogues now use glaives"
marble hemlock
I mean, people do need to lose the mindset of spec vs spec
You dont really see mages or Warlocks complaining
About having to play demo one tier, affli the next, destro the next
Or mages
fleet whale
eh, i've seen a good amount of locks complaining about having to play aff
marble hemlock
Its a bit of a unique thing for rogues, to be commited this hard to OTPing
fleet whale
when aff has been good, but rogues do take it to the extreme
oak radish
imo seli for rogues situation is different,
plush isle
eh, i've seen a good amount of locks complaining about having to play aff
cause its not that easy with Malific Wrath, punishes the hell out of you if you drop the buff and the gain with perfect playstyle is not that huge.
oak radish
because we have to change or farm other weps for different specs
if balance change happens in mid progress
fleet whale
NGL arcane mage looks pretty lit for this raid
plush isle
NGL arcane mage looks pretty lit for this raid
Fire and Arcane looks pretty good, Frost is meh.
marble hemlock
I mean, I was basically OTPing assa since mid-legion, and have been playing both outlaw and sub a lot more this expac. Guy has been enjoying his time as sub a lot this tier, Whispyr has been playing Sub for a good while now as well, despite being an assa player first and foremost up until this tier
Think the only true OTP thats left is Lok
and he has earned that right 😄
fleet whale
it's just getting tiring when the first expansion build launches, and not seeing any meaningful changes for sin
marble hemlock
fleet whale
other than typical QoL stuff
marble hemlock
I mean, the spec is sitting at 51% aura buff now. A rework is long overdue. Not like it needs much to feel like it arrived in 2020
Despite being a spec from ~12y ago, it still works really well
Thats quite an accomplishment in itself
fleet whale
Yeah but that reasoning is getting old to me persoanlly
marble hemlock
Sub got like 4 reworks since then
marble hemlock
But yeah, sometimes it feels like you get a sweater for christmas every year while your siblings get consoles and ponies
plush isle
Sub in Tomb was an awesome specc, punishing but awesome, then BFA with Zul came and killed the Specc for 2 Years.
plush isle
Every Class has an Multiplier Aura for all Abilities
oak radish
Shrouded suffocation x 3 assa at start of BFA was amazing 🙂 before nerfs
fleet whale
and that includes poisons
fleet whale
blizz started doing it in legion
to make tuning a more simple process
but "aura buffs" have been criticized quite a bit
marble hemlock
one of the things that annoys me the most about assa atm, is how little damage deadly poison deals
bleak sky
I would love sin to be reaaaally about dotting
fleet whale
bleeds on our mastery fucked up how it scaled
plush isle
to make tuning a more simple process
but that's also something that bothers me about blizzard, while aura buffs would be an easy way to check every 1-2 weeks if the spec is underperforming or overperforming and take 1-2 percent up or down they are always way too conservative in my opinion
fleet whale
my main issue with aura buffs is that they don't really target anything
marble hemlock
even if our mastery boosted poison dmg by 200%
DP damage would still be low 😄
comparatively, anyway
shouldnt be too difficult to move some of the instant poison damage into DP instead
fleet whale
I just loved how in legion like 70% of my damage was nature
made sin stand out a bit from the other two rogue specs
oak radish
i wonder if they are gonna add better daggers in new raid with powerful proc. Otherwise we are gonna end up using sylv dagger on offhand.
viscid spear
Pugging Heroic, go to soak a swirl and get feared, immediately picked for Chain, get murked
plush isle
Blizzard are now reworking brewmaster 4 piece and Restro Druide T Sets
spark scaffold
I doubt you're going to want a sylv dagger rather than mythic / heroic new tier dagger
plush isle
@marble hemlock maybe not all is lost
fleet whale
if off-hand it's possible you would want to keep sly dagger
since off-hand weapon dps doesn't really mean much
oak radish
yea i wrote offhand, not mainhand ofc
spark scaffold
MAYBE heroic but surely not any new mythic dagger
marble hemlock
Yeah, we'll see where we end up
jaunty steeple
especially on sub/outlaw
marble hemlock
PTR for big content patches usually lasts ~3months
spark scaffold
There's also the stats you get from ilv not just the weapon dps
marble hemlock
And it seems this time around theyre not so far down the develop pipeline already that fundamental changes arent possible anymore. Thats one of the problemse weve had in previous PTR cycles, where we were presented with finished bonuses/changes and there was little time/resources or opportunity to change things
fleet whale
depends if the increased stats on the new dagger would be enough to override the effect from the sylvanas dagger
marble hemlock
We have about twice as much time now to give feedback on bonuses, than we had to give feedback on azerite before BfA released 
fleet whale
the sin bonus being changed is inevitable
how it's going to be changed is the question
oak radish
There's also the stats you get from ilv not just the weapon dps
sylv 233ilvl dagger on offhand better than any 252 ilvl wep with stats. Lets say same logic applied to next tier. Imagine how high ilvl you need to beat sylv dagger on offhand
plush isle
sylv 233ilvl dagger on offhand better than any 252 ilvl wep with stats. Lets say...
still no dagger 😦
oak radish
same i only have normal, and stopped playing this week until 9.2
many weeks in hc, not from sylv myhic kill, or vault mythic or hc drops
same was for my rogue friend in same guild
spark scaffold
Well from what I just simmed double 278 dagger would be better than a sylv mythic in off-hand
But I don't guarantee that this is 100% correct
plush isle
1,3% left until Sylv Mythic Kill, they all meme about me getting it on the first mythic kill, cant really see it with my luck.
jaunty steeple
spark scaffold
How do you guys wipe with 1.3% left?
jaunty steeple
by dying
bleak sky
sylv 233ilvl dagger on offhand better than any 252 ilvl wep with stats. Lets say...
not really for assassin but ok
spark scaffold
Just curious, for my guild plat 4 is always the easiest
plush isle
How do you guys wipe with 1.3% left?
Damage just isnt that great, but was our first time real good try on plat 4
viscid spear
#redemptionforgarrosh
spark scaffold
And whatever else mistakes happened before plat 4
plush isle
In Phase 3 im at ca. 8,5-8,7k next one in Phase 3 is at 7,5-7,6, some at 5,5
dawn ivy
k so spriests are getting aoe in their 4 piece
so sin is surely getting some aoe in their tierset too right
oak sky
not necessarily
dawn ivy
p-please?
brazen zodiac
The other rogue in my guild got it second kill
lmfao
oak sky
but i dont think its needed for every tier set to work in aoe and st
brazen zodiac
i got the breast plate first kill
dagger 12 weeks later
i wish u the best of luck
dawn ivy
well im not looking at it as a tier set thing, im just looking at sins massive weakness in aoe and it would be nice if they gave it a little somethin somethin
some tier sets focus on strenghts where some focus on weaknesses and then some just do both
oak sky
i would rather focus on our strength and the 10.0 rework focus on stuff like aoe tbh
assuming there was a 10.0 rework
spark scaffold
Even if they just make sin set super strong in single target that's still a win
Then you can fill a niche
oak sky
i would be very happy with a set that makes us super strong in single target
spark scaffold
I feel like if they focused the tier set on aoe you'd just be average on both
Just keep sin as a boss damage kind of spec and play sub if you need aoe on a soulrender type fight
Since sub bonus is actually pretty good for multiple targets (at least from the looks of it)
oak sky
@dawn ivy another thing, if you think we should get aoe from the tier set you should leave some feedback on the blizzard thread
if thats what you want to see you should tell them
obtuse robin
viscid spear
Downed The Nine with this pug group, 3rd straight boss where there was only like 3 people alive 
I just want a Ner'zhul kill, thinking a Guardian kill is asking too much
viscid spear
I was top dps on Nine no less
8.7k with the next being a Destro at 8k 
I could really use a dagger, still using a 226 OH
So if we at least kill Remnant I'll be content
jaunty steeple
actually wait this is heroic right?
viscid spear
Ya
jaunty steeple
heroic Pain is kinda memes actually I guess, as long as everyone has a hint of a clue
Remnant is a killer tho
viscid spear
Yeah, expecting to see people flying off
Also I'm one of the flex people for chains on Soulrender
idk how to feel about that
Every fight has been a butt-clincher
Now we're on to Ner'zhul
No dagger, and I hear "Let's clean up Painsmith, guys"
In a way that makes me think they have killed it, but have gotten very sloppy on rekills so...
gloomy knoll
damn that's crazy
all these tier sets being changed based on feedback
needa complain about this sin one knawmean
kindred rapids
Sin just does a bunch of bleeds right?
viscid spear
They dont play rogue at blizz
With all the stuff we've been hearing about at Blizzard, they do know how to Sin
sonic schooner
Nice one 
viscid spear
It's been a pretty swell day, in a good mood
omg this guild group considers Vampiric Embrace a raid CD
slow marsh
needa complain about this sin one knawmean
Already done fam
balmy condor
needa complain about this sin one knawmean
faith brother
gloomy knoll
HIT THE FORUMS BOIS
ember mural
whispyr working on the secret tech, gonna sim the sin set better 
slow marsh
Let the seeds sit
We will be the last they look at kekw
balmy condor
whispyr working on the secret tech, gonna sim the sin set better <:whispyrcopium...
I was thinking instead of obedience and Duskwalker, we just wear 2 Duskwalker
slow marsh
Gotta make sure the dev favs are good first
balmy condor
just craft TWO obedience
Bringing back the 1% vers
slow marsh
Dear God forget the tier set bring back the 1% vers and I'll be happy
viscid spear
This has not been a productive run at all 
slow marsh
Dang bro seli went so hard in the paint nobody else bothered posting
I'm sure it has nothing to do with eu being asleep at all either
alpine latch
sigh, fml
I got asked to app to a 9/10M guild
But it means I have to raid 4 nights a week (because I'm not leaving my guild)
timid cloud
Totem.
viscid spear
Now I have to stay or I look like a dick
balmy condor
But it means I have to raid 4 nights a week (because I'm not leaving my guild)
4 nights a week for 9/10?
viscid spear
Guess I'll replace Totem with Amp in my Vendetta macro
balmy condor
That better be a 1:30 hour a night 4 night raid
alpine latch
4 nights a week for 9/10?
Well, 4 nights a week to still play with my friends
They just raid Weds/Fri, 3 hours a night
balmy condor
Oh
alpine latch
My friends raid Tues/Thurs
I have 2 rogues that are both 245 item level
Both sim around 10.8k
alpine latch
I'm the most hardcore casual you've ever met
viscid spear
3 straight Agi from Theo's tea 
balmy condor
Can only get better
brazen zodiac
POG
viscid spear
Looks like this group's wall is Fate
simple stratus
was playing sub and finally got a crit tea so i was like bet lets swap to assass for this tea time, swapped and it auto swapped to nadja, and got rid of my tea buff 😦 i hate this stupid system
nimble tartan
I'm the most hardcore casual you've ever met
why not just play with ur friends!!!
bleak sky
Looks like this group's wall is Fate
what difficulty
gloomy knoll
@balmy condor 2 piece shrouded suffocation?
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> i made sure to complain on the feedback post
Ty but really no need
gloomy knoll
can we make it happen?
dawn ivy
i doubt we get it reworked completely
gloomy knoll
lots of other classes are
oak sky
hey it cant hurt
dawn ivy
they only rework shit that genuinely worthless
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> 2 piece shrouded suffocation?
Not quite
viscid spear
what difficulty
HC
gloomy knoll
if we got ss for 2 piece
balmy condor
i doubt we get it reworked completely
The 2 set is getting reworked
dawn ivy
wait huh
gloomy knoll
how u know dis
balmy condor
Because I hear things
gloomy knoll
shieeet
dawn ivy
no shot
gloomy knoll
thank god
balmy condor
Just quit yer bitchen
gloomy knoll
2 pc is dog
balmy condor
It’ll be fine
gloomy knoll
wish it was shrouded tho xd
dawn ivy
yeah im not panicking idec
fathom flax
reworked or buffed
gloomy knoll
which means we can potentially get hyper pog sets
dawn ivy
but are you genuine about having some whispers about a rework?
balmy condor
reworked or buffed
Yes
fathom flax
having it tied to shiv isnt bad, if they added more to that it would be nice
balmy condor
but are you genuine about having some whispers about a rework?
I wouldn’t say things for fun
drifting cloud
gloomy knoll
it sucks for aoe tho
subtle tundra
Pls make something aoe
gloomy knoll
having it tied to shiv and vendetta means you cuck st bot
dawn ivy
huh, okay i trust you a smidge more than most
fathom flax
assassination rogue. aoe. pick one.
balmy condor
huh, okay i trust you a smidge more than most
I would be a little concerned if you didn’t
subtle tundra
assassination rogue. aoe. pick one.
Next you'll tell me to play sub in m+, right?
fathom flax
ikr, crazy talk
fathom flax
does assassination have any buffs that affect us as opposed to on target?
gloomy knoll
dawn ivy
viscid spear
"short staffed, please understand"
balmy condor
does assassination have any buffs that affect us as opposed to on target?
Ep, envenom
fallow otter
@balmy condor my 249 rogue sims more ST than my monk that has all the gear in the game.... Plz halp
fathom flax
sorry, i meant cooldowns haha
simple stratus
just make shiv be kingsbane
fathom flax
shivbane
thorny pond
<@167090536602140682> my 249 rogue sims more ST than my monk that has all the ge...
Rogue has better ST than monk
Monks are AoE chads
fathom flax
a lot of tier bonuses are similar or direct rip offs of artifact powers
thorny pond
I bet your monk has a much better soulrender parse
viscid spear
just make shiv be kingsbane
I don't even remember what Kingsbane did
fathom flax
stacking poison damage over x seconds, every poison proc made it do more
9? 12? cant remember
but it was cool and tied into the antorus set bonus nicely
thorny pond
Yea you basically did some CD dumps to get KB max stacks
fathom flax
EP used to last longer so you could roll it the whole fight
viscid spear
take away alacrity and make it kingsbane tied to shiv <:prayge:80371149102173388...
You mean make Alacrity baseline
dawn ivy
i mean yeah give us some fucking energy baseline
thorny pond
Remove alacrity and buff our base
dawn ivy
but THEN, kingsbane
fathom flax
alacrity and vigor baseline 4head
dawn ivy
yeah exactly
fallow otter
I bet your monk has a much better soulrender parse
Still rank 30 ww monk, even though I'm gearing rogue now in clears
Overall
But that's not the point, gib me some ST plz haha
viscid spear
Remove alacrity and buff our base
Remove our base and alacrity the buff
thorny pond
Remove our base and alacrity the buff
That was 9.0
fallow otter
Kinda a curse on kt ngl
viscid spear
Zim the zam and flam the flim?
viscid spear
What if we used another piece of glass to remove the piece of glass in my eye?
viscid spear
What if I drained the life from 28 people, would I have enough to live for a month?
bleak sky
god damn my outlaw is getting straight 100s on parses
i'm swapping that's it
was a good run
timid cloud
It’s because less people play it.
fallow otter
Heroics?
timid cloud
bleak sky
Heroics?
no, normals, he's 205
not swapping out of sin unless it's to play another char I guess
fallow otter
no, normals, he's 205 <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
Hmm well neither heroic or normal count tbh but that's just my 2c. Likely annoy people but it's the truth.
Too much kill time and gear shenanigans to make it worth looking at
fallow otter
no, normals, he's 205 <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
You mfd and gs?
bleak sky
You mfd and gs?
qd mfd
bleak sky
Hmm well neither heroic or normal count tbh but that's just my 2c. Likely annoy ...
I know king, it's just a fun char
fallow otter
Agree
Ill raid outlaw instead of sin if I get another mythic ripper tonight, but.. It'll make people mad coz alt
bleak sky
you just need 1 tho
fallow otter
Well 1 more will make 3, monk has 2
viscid spear
Well I finished clearing the raid, got boots from Nine and a neck from KT that weren't upgrades, but won the roll for Guardian's trinket.
So kinda middling 
Now to hope I get something good in Vault, and also get some M+ done tomorrow
hollow river
Well I finished clearing the raid, got boots from Nine and a neck from KT that w...
HC? Or M
viscid spear
HC 
thorny pond
Fusion is a good trinket
hollow river
Ocular gland 😈
hollow river
Tog?
thorny pond
Titanic Ocular Gland
gusty mirage
Phial and FA are like 60 dps better for both my sub and sin set
even kyrian sub?
hollow river
I don’t think so oxi
thorny pond
even kyrian sub?
Yea, I’m at the point where more crit isn’t better and it won’t give vers
gusty mirage
oh fair
thorny pond
I do both, Venthyr sub for KT so we have some stability downstairs
I hate it
But the kill
hollow river
I don’t really care for Venthyr sub in raid
I like it in m+
But want to give kyrian a go in raid
hollow river
Ye I don’t disagree
thorny pond
Also painsmith but I’m going sin on that now mostly
thorny pond
I do more dps as sub by quite a margin but I hate the pre pull degeneration