assassination

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

L

[thorny pond]

The rich decedent goodness of the OxiCevYr sandwich

[timid cloud]

No, he's thinking about how we need to bring something to a raid.

Thinking about how dogshit our talents are.

Most of them dead.

[oak sky]

Whispyr already wrote about the talents

[limber lion]

Yo can you knock me out

[oak sky]

And i heard talk of a scathing report on the tier sets

[carmine dawn]

Udahoe

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

if you want I can discuss my feelings on american constitutional law jurisprudence

that should put you out in no time

[limber lion]

It's already working and you haven't said a word

Wtf

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

I don't even know what that word is

[thorny pond]

That law degree mang

[gusty mirage]

which one

[slow marsh]

Jurikfnfbjsia

[gusty mirage]

philosophy of law

[limber lion]

Jurisprudence

[thorny pond]

American

[gusty mirage]

[carmine dawn]

Jurisdoctorate

@gusty mirage

Why is thst a thing

[gusty mirage]

hello

[thorny pond]

Turkey Day tomorrow. Tell us your real political thoughts about the origins of that Oxi

[gusty mirage]

why is what a thing

[carmine dawn]

Why do lawyers become doctors

And then not

[gusty mirage]

we may have to move this over to OT

[limber lion]

I also like Assassination

Whee it's my favorite spec

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion I do too, I need them to give us more life in 9.2

[thorny pond]

It’s just Wednesday my dudes

[limber lion]

Remember to slam that shivvy boys

[gusty mirage]

so I can stop getting bullied by the ninjas

[slow marsh]

No cuz you need a doctorate to be able to explain why our talents are the way they are

[limber lion]

Slam it real good

[limber lion]

Big true, losing all the homies one by one to the dark side

[gusty mirage]

because the only person who played rogue for blizzard was the one dude who came in to fix the HVAC system once

[slow marsh]

LMAO

Big true

[gusty mirage]

but then again

if Ion's rsham has crit/mastery on his legendary on his HELM for 9.1

I'm not sure if I want a blizz dev playing our class

[limber lion]

Sephuz actually did a bunch of really good stuff for Rogue

[gusty mirage]

he was the chosen one

[limber lion]

He was on the job for a week and he did a bunch of stuff

[oak sky]

Ion probably has been really busy tbf

[gusty mirage]

you think if I tweet at him he'll respond?

"pls come back rogues need you"

[limber lion]

Maybe

[slow marsh]

I'll retweet with my 2 followers

[limber lion]

No harm in trying :')

[gusty mirage]

my tweeter is private

[oak sky]

He probably has a gig at riot making the new assassin class for world of arcane

[limber lion]

I'll retweet then JPC sees it because he follows me then he'll retweet it

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

JPC is maybe the savior we need

[oak sky]

Chain reaction ratio

[harsh juniper]

The Man

[slow marsh]

I mentioned the tier set in max discord and he responded to me

[limber lion]

Too bad even eith Asmon's following, nothing ever happens

So don't expect too much

Yeh James is chill

[gusty mirage]

I GOT IT

[limber lion]

Good bloke

[gusty mirage]

I'll sue blizzard

[slow marsh]

He gave a typical answer idk why people are saying what they are but the idea of it sounds fun.

[limber lion]

Eyy

[gusty mirage]

it'll be worth every $ of the filing fee

[oak sky]

Lol thats low hanging fruit oxi

Its so meta

[gusty mirage]

and the sanctions that'll be imposed on me

for filing a frivolous lawsuit

[slow marsh]

And he said relative to other specs it doesn't seem op at all like what people are saying

[gusty mirage]

I'll sue blizzard for negligent infliction of emotional distress for giving us such a stupid tier set bonus

[slow marsh]

Blizz doesn't listen to asmon cuz he doesn't play the game how they want him to

[limber lion]

Lol

[oak sky]

I mean yeah he mount farms he doesnt do relevant content

[gusty mirage]

I think this may work

[limber lion]

I mean it's just one dude in the end

[gusty mirage]

can we start a RH GoFundMe for the counter-lawsuit where actiblizz lawyers destroy me and my career?

[limber lion]

Vs a corporate of thousands of workers

[slow marsh]

Yeah I got you oxi

[limber lion]

[oak sky]

I dont think theres anything wrong with how asmon plays the game, and I do think there should be stuff for people like him to do

[slow marsh]

I agree nothing wrong with it. But no shot blizz makes any design changes based on how he plays

[limber lion]

Based on how any individual does

[oak sky]

True

[slow marsh]

Other than Mike Ybarra right

All the rules apply to everyone except the person in charge when it comes to blizz

It's an American company afterall

[oak sky]

Hopefully cypher ends up being a fun system for casuals

[slow marsh]

I mean if it's truely all cosmetic they'll probs get more people interested in doing it

[oak sky]

Looked like theres a bunch of mounts

[thorny pond]

It just better be interactive and fun. Not just baseless “go clear this zone” or “kill 8 whatchamacallits”

[oak sky]

I mean hopefully its some stuff like that, some for exploring and whatever

As long as theres variety it should be fun

Game would be really boring if there was never kill mob quests

[thorny pond]

Sure but if the area in general is kill mob quests I hope the cypher offers some variety

[oak sky]

Oh for sure

I'm hoping i can have some fun messing around with it

[slow marsh]

I'm a little sus of the tier set craft coming some time after raid launch

[oak sky]

Im kinda not

I think itll come out like 2 weeks after mythic week

[ruby coyote]

Hey guys, Outlaw/Sub main here but I wanna mess with Assassination a bit so I have a few questions. What's the Assa opener and rotation? I tried checking out the pins and the faq but couldn't find anything.

[slow marsh]

I hope so. I'm just sus it'll be like a month after

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[oak sky]

A month is still better than in 9.2.5

[slow marsh]

Fair

[oak sky]

Thats about the limit for me though

Longer than that would be very sus

[slow marsh]

I guess after having dom sets and everyone basing comps and such around full 4p tier sets it's just gonna be weird

Like idk if it'll be much better than 9.1 start. It'll be better but not much idk

[oak sky]

Tier sets are fundamentally better than dom since its class by class, + we dont have to also get shards

And its on any 5 slots

Or any 4/5

[jaunty steeple]

dom stuff was AWFUL as fuck for alts

[oak sky]

Which is better than needing 1 specific out of 5 + 2 more

[slow marsh]

Yeah true you had to have the right Dom pieces + the right shards

I've never played at the start of a tier with sets so idk the feels of how stuff pans out

[oak sky]

Me meither

Neither

[slow marsh]

Plus tier sets used to be tokens and now they seem to be against the token thing so

[oak sky]

Yeah ig we'll see

I would think its not that hard to finish your 4pc by the end of week 2

[jaunty steeple]

there's no info on weapon loot yet is there

[slow marsh]

Another tier of taking lower ilvl gear because its part of a set yay

[oak sky]

I dont mind it tbh

[slow marsh]

I wonder if they'll put more work into weaps / trinks since we're only getting tier + double leggo

Yeah I don't mind it much either idc

[oak sky]

I think we get basic weps this tier

Sanctum had the cool ones

I think its back to nathria style

[slow marsh]

Yeah true but this is the final raid of xpac (lul that was quick) and don't they usually juice the power scale ?

[oak sky]

Yeah i think so but double leggos + tier is pretty juice

Idk maybe there will be weapon effects who knows

Maybe its a domination rune enchant system that we learn from anduin

[slow marsh]

Yeah double leggo + tier should be juice....it's just not when you're coming off of dom shards

Yeah I think there's a hidden power system still

Somewhere

[oak sky]

I mean every class will be doing more damage next patch than this patch

[slow marsh]

It's not cypher like I thought but I still think it's there

[oak sky]

Might be a ptr problem

[slow marsh]

I'm not too sure on the dam thing idk if the main stat + extra leggo + tier will make up for dom

At least super alpha early experimental sims for us show it's not

But ptr will hammer that out I'm sure

[oak sky]

It definitely will

Doing less damage would just be bad

[slow marsh]

It would

[oak sky]

Us being weaker compared to other classes would be unfortunate

But we should still be simming for more than 12k

Im like 99% that we will

[slow marsh]

They gots their work cut out for them this holiday season that's for sure lol

I know that's probably the correct answer but I'm hesitant still after number early crunching. We're gonna need a pretty sizable boost somewhere

[oak sky]

They need to bridge about a 2k-2.5k dps gap

Dont think thats hard

[slow marsh]

It might be with the current iteration of 4p since we don't gain much damage at all

People just see 100% and freak

[oak sky]

I mean shit we probably got that since last patch and we didnt even get double leggos

[thorny pond]

Give good feedback on PTR and constructive posts

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[thorny pond]

All we can do and hope they internally balance

[oak sky]

Of course

I might even play ptr

[thorny pond]

Obviously we want to be in a similar place we are now relative to other specs

But we shall see

[oak sky]

I have a very long christmas break from college

[slow marsh]

I'm def playing ptr just so I can be in on the feedback

Can't be talking the talk and not walk the walk

[oak sky]

Yep

But i wouldnt worry about us doing less damage even if our tier doesnt change

[thorny pond]

A lot of our potential strengths and weaknesses also come down to fight design

[spark scaffold]

!tea

[oak sky]

Crit good haste ok vers reroll but ok agi bad

[thorny pond]

I hope that sin stays a powerhouse on ST, that’ll give us a spot in raid regardless

[spark scaffold]

Sorry for asking again, anyone know the command to always make the theotar tea buff give crit on raidbots?

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't say I'm worried. More just I see the hill that we have to climb in ptr and then I see wow community saying sin tier is huge

[oak sky]

Sin is probably one of the best classes for prio cleave as well

[thorny pond]

I think people are thinking it is adding on our current kit but exsang vendetta doesn’t get me hard

[oak sky]

Underrated aspect

[slow marsh]

I think that obed dusk putting sin on 1min timer will def increase value

[spice spire]

It’s in the sub faq lemme find rq

[thorny pond]

Potential. Depends on uptime on boss + we are going haste more than likely again with frost set gone and not being dashing

[slow marsh]

We are going haste again but dashing is still looking competitive for now

[thorny pond]

It would feel bad hoping a priest faieries you

[spark scaffold]

If you're thinking about this one profileset."crit"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=crit" it only works in the advanced sim, there was one that worked in custom APL

[slow marsh]

The big thing for prog I guess is that most all our dam is going to be inside of the 20s vend window so maybe we get brought just cuz of our 1min burst similarly to venth boomie except obvi not nearly as strong

[thorny pond]

Also too early to tell. Lots of tuning I think will come our way as well as specs that used blood or frost

[oak sky]

Just gotta sit through a few weeks of ptr

[slow marsh]

I think we can accurately say that haste will be back on the menu. The only way it isn't is if we overcap like crazy during vend

[thorny pond]

Hopefully productive weeks. Rework sepsis senpai

[slow marsh]

Yes plz sepsis 1min

[oak sky]

Remove sepsis senpai

[thorny pond]

Even with high haste duskwalker a prefers vigor

So anything to increase energy regen is our meta. PIs, KA as NF, Fairies

[spark scaffold]

Ah, it works with only this part "shadowlands.party_favor_type=crit", thank you anyway @spice spire

[balmy condor]

Yeah, just shadowlands.party_favor_type=crit

Oh

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s all that was needed lol. I just tested to check and was like ???

[slow marsh]

I could see sin possibly being a ST powerhouse with externals but ye we'll see

[oak sky]

Profileset just makes it do different sims for each one right?

Like split them up

[spice spire]

Yo @thorny pond you good king? The zen pfp changed just double checking

[spark scaffold]

Yeah the profileset one is to compare the dps between buffs i think

[spice spire]

Ya

[thorny pond]

Two target sustained will just be a massive boon for us if we go DW + whatever

[thorny pond]

Time to be loud mang

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

Bro who needs externals once our tier set gets improved we get to be the best melee st

[spice spire]

Holy copium Batman

[slow marsh]

[oak sky]

Huge copium

Its not gonna happen for the 3rd tier in a row

True

[slow marsh]

SIN 4P INCREASES DAMAGE 100% INSIDE VENDETTA WOW THATS HUGE

[oak sky]

Lets just see if they can do anythinf

Anything

[thorny pond]

If they did anything else with bleeds but that 4pc it would’ve been 🥂

[slow marsh]

Just make our bleeds and poison dot do damage and we're fine

The fact they picked exsang is sadge cuz it's such a small damage increase

[thorny pond]

Poison ticks now cause an extra bleed tick to instantly occur

Yuge

[slow marsh]

Like you get +20% to like 18% damage for 20 seconds

I think the best way to fix it would be to change the 2p over the 4p

[thorny pond]

Noooo

[bleak sky]

watching zerocool's stream

wtf is this

[oak sky]

First strike insane

📈

[bleak sky]

[slow marsh]

First strike MA leggo open sepsis shiv

[bleak sky]

tfw night fae enjoyer and still 400 io higher than me

[slow marsh]

Oh wait you don't need ma with first strike

[balmy condor]

A monstrosity

Man just plays whatever he wants and jebaits half the channel in the process

[bleak sky]

yep

[carmine dawn]

Push playing TO last night too

[spark scaffold]

When you play MfD and your 4th cast is like 5-6 seconds delayed from being during flag/vendetta window do you delay flag vendetta for a few seconds or do you just lose a cast to sync them properly? Assuming patchwerk fight.

[bleak sky]

you hold mfd for flag, not the other way around

[balmy condor]

It’s a lot better on sub, but still clowning

[carmine dawn]

theoretically TO should be insane on outlaw

vendetta+shadow blades is insane

whats that, 80% increased dmg on ST?

or is it multiplicative instead of additive?

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[gusty mirage]

It's most likely multiplicative

very rarely are there abilities that just add two %s together

[fallen charm]

I just realise hearthstone, mount and cannibalize break stealth if you don't have the subterfuge talent

rip

[gusty mirage]

well they all break stealth, but w/ subterfuge you have like a little grace period before mobs can "see" you

[fallen charm]

nop

with subterfuge they do not break

I have all of them macroed to stealth before

#showtooltip Cannibalize
/cast !Stealth
/cast Cannibalize

like this

[gusty mirage]

[brazen zodiac]

hi oxi

[fallen charm]

but I was using on anothe low level rogue and it was not working

[gusty mirage]

[fallen charm]

idk if it's monkaTOS to send videos here

but check this out

I have !stealth macroed in my hearthstone, mount and cannibalize so they don't get interrupted by random mobs

must be an unintended way subterfuge works

I thought it worked like that baseline

[strange python]

does flagellation sometimes give 0 stacks?

[gusty mirage]

ye its a bug

happened to me a handful of times on sylv prog

still no idea why

[strange python]

insane

[fallen charm]

spaghetti code

[gusty mirage]

🍝

[fallen charm]

damn I'm sad

I though it was so cool to use hearthstone in stealth

[slow marsh]

dang @gusty mirage with the big moves i see you

[oak sky]

New oxi pfp

🚨

[slow marsh]

🍠

[hollow river]

🥧

🦃

[oak sky]

Pog

Love a sweet potato

[hollow river]

Tomorrow’s the day boys

Gonna be sick 😈

[oak sky]

Gonna be juiced on sweet potato and turkey

[hollow river]

Can’t wait

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

somehow i've gotten myself into a youtube comment battle that i really don't want to be in but my overwhelming urge to want to be right has gotten the best of me

[cunning needle]

Remember that if you stop replying, he wins

[slow marsh]

Well at this point idk if it's worth it since he doesn't even know what he's talking about so it's not satisfying at all

[full tendon]

He's saying the same thing in the sub channel

[twilit hollow]

I was just about to come here to ping you and ask if you were having fun @slow marsh

[hollow river]

Lol what’s happened now

[hexed frost]

Why are people laughing at this. Rogues are in general good single target class right?

Unless I'm missing something

[slow marsh]

Lol wait same guy? No shot

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

Nothing I just be getting myself into trouble

[full tendon]

Was teasing

[slow marsh]

I was gonna say lmao.

I would actually believe it

[hexed frost]

[balmy condor]

Lashga on one again?

[slow marsh]

I don't even know but some duder arguing with me on my comment on drat video

[gusty mirage]

oh

youtube comments

yikes

[slow marsh]

Yeah ik

[gusty mirage]

those are right there with news article comments

[slow marsh]

I have made a mistake

[gusty mirage]

abort mission

do not pass go

do not collect $200

[bleak sky]

no talking to strangers on the internet iceblades

[slow marsh]

It's definitely up there with arguing on Facebook

[balmy condor]

I reached out to dratnos about the tier set

He didn’t respond

[slow marsh]

Sin is supposed to be good at ST, yes. The problem is that sin has historically relied pretty heavily on borrowed power. Right now we pump because of frost. Tier set is sus right now so people just trying to raise awareness

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

Ofc he didn't

[gusty mirage]

shoulda taken jez's advice

[slow marsh]

He just says whatever he wants with no accountability

[gusty mirage]

welcome to wow youtubers

🙂

[slow marsh]

Hit him up again with the "listen up dipshit"

[balmy condor]

Unification brother

[gusty mirage]

fine

[balmy condor]

It will happen

[gusty mirage]

is that defias brotherhood discord still a thing?

[balmy condor]

The stars are aligning

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

No core

Clue

I know there’s a Russian rogue disc and a chinese rogue something

Idk if discord is allowed in China

[gusty mirage]

I'm assuming its a bizzaro world of RH

where there's a guy named Screamyng

who puts out scuffed sims

[slow marsh]

Tbh I'm not against trying to invoke his name and try and steer him into the light

[gusty mirage]

we're kind to our fellow rogues

except for @spice spire

we flame him

[slow marsh]

I am being kind

[oak sky]

@spice spire

[slow marsh]

Offering a path to redemption is kind

[hexed frost]

Maybe they will buff vendetta damage buff even more idk

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

His recent stuff hasn’t been bad aside from the insano clickbait

[gusty mirage]

our brother Rohwan over here on the STRAIGHT

[hexed frost]

4-6 sec ruptures and garottes

[slow marsh]

Just imagine the insano clickbait used for good though

[balmy condor]

That’s the goal

[spice spire]

based whispyr

also I got flamed enough in raid @gusty mirage

[oak sky]

At worst we sit at shit tier dps up until 9.2.5 thrn get buffed

[gusty mirage]

BY WHO

I'll cut them

[oak sky]

!tox

[spice spire]

my guild at whole

wiping to checks notes heroic sylv

[gusty mirage]

oh god

they're griefing you

[spice spire]

tank was wasted, healer couldn't avoid the cold

shit was wildin'

[lyric crater]

wonder what spec be top dps in next patch

[spice spire]

i had to hop off the alt before I wanted to

[slow marsh]

Probably fire mage

[gusty mirage]

for rogue? windwalker monk

[spice spire]

oh and dps passed out from inebriation mid kt

[lyric crater]

rogues lol sorry it late

[gusty mirage]

probably sub

[oak sky]

No really its hard to know theres probably gonna be a bunch of tuning and leggo changes and stuff

[slow marsh]

If SB stacks then sub is going to jupiter

[lyric crater]

sub can kick rocks

pvp its fun out side of it i dont like it

[gusty mirage]

thing is we don't know how things actually will play out

[oak sky]

We cant really know whats good quite yet

[gusty mirage]

sub being bis is based on the fact that their 4pc will give CP and interact with all the other neat things shadowstrike does

[spice spire]

WW monk

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

oxi's not wrong

[slow marsh]

If you want to be safe then yeah reroll ww

[obtuse robin]

[slow marsh]

But we are rogues we don't play safe

[oak sky]

Ww is the main alt next tier for sure

Main is rogue no chance of anything else

[spice spire]

I'm already on it ag

[oak sky]

[spice spire]

got the mage backpocket to be safe

another CN

[gusty mirage]

I live and die with the rogue class

[slow marsh]

I'm gonna start leveling hunter maybe cuz defile is real

[full tendon]

Already so many ;_;

[gusty mirage]

I might dabble in a little resto shaman next tier

me as a healer

[slow marsh]

I will forever otp rogue though unless it's actually bad which it won't be

[obtuse robin]

you promise ?

[slow marsh]

But not a bad idea to have a ranged ready for certain fights idk

[oak sky]

Nah

[gusty mirage]

I don't ever switch from rogue ever

[oak sky]

You never play 0 melee

Its bad

[gusty mirage]

I even sucked it up and played outlaw for half of 9.0

and got flamed by whispyr

[oak sky]

Theres always times when its hard to be ranged and hard to be melee

[slow marsh]

cough sludgefist

But no yeah I am comfortable in my ability to outplay every other melee on rogue

Dont get it twisted

I just level a ranged cuz it looks good

[obtuse robin]

no one to play vs on ally side tho

[oak sky]

I would play some shadowpriest if i had more time

[hexed frost]

Destroy warlock for M+

[slow marsh]

Dang imagine being ally

[oak sky]

Not me

No warlock here

[oak sky]

The old days

[slow marsh]

I miss it already

[hexed frost]

I am inclined to SPriest too ngl. Palid command with talbadard seems quite OP ngl

[slow marsh]

Spriest is a solid option for rogue just in terms of profile. You're kind of just a ranged rogue

[hexed frost]

I am expecting the destro lock tier set to be nerfed at this point. It's absolutely broken as per tooltip is concerned

[slow marsh]

Hopefully everything gets nerfed and buffed

[oak sky]

Just like our set might end up good destro might end up bad we just have to give feedback and wait it out

[hexed frost]

Imagine getting an infernal every 10 GCDs or so

[gusty mirage]

Just remember gents

When PTR is up

Log in and flood them with suggestions

Probably won't do anything but it won't be because we didn't try

[slow marsh]

Imagine infernal doing 69 damage so it doesn't matter

[hexed frost]

I am disheartened but not surprised in the sin tier set.

Blizzard has always been lazy and unimaginative since BfA. They just made Exangiuate a base talent through the set.

No imagination. Nothing.

[slow marsh]

Well we just need to come up with a solid rework as a discord and spam them with the same singular suggestion in ptr

[hexed frost]

Yes

[slow marsh]

I don't want to outright flame them anymore. They just genuinely don't get how rogue works so we need to help them understand exactly what we want

[buoyant mauve]

I remember using ptr for the first time ever for 9.0.5 to make sure envenom could pandemic o7

[slow marsh]

Pog

Now we will never envenom

[spice spire]

wdym nyalotha hpal main oxi

wait @slow marsh someone actually thinking you flame?

[slow marsh]

Oxiheal is a thing I can see it

[spice spire]

people copying memes like they're irl

smdh

you've only flamed one rogue actively. And he was right SMH

[slow marsh]

No I'm just saying I do flame the devs for being bad at their job but I want to try not to anymore

[spice spire]

ah

lil bit, yeah

[gusty mirage]

where's the screenshot

I know you have it

[clever kindle]

1 of these is the same setup im using with the dps conduits flipped in position and one is saying equip vers mastery shoulders over my crit haste but change nothing

maybe I did something weird in my initial simc output

[slow marsh]

I'm not really a flamer, I can get pretty condescending though and I try to catch myself from doing it

[gusty mirage]

link the sim

[clever kindle]

oh nevermind I found the problem

I had crimson tempest equipped, I had unselected it but didnt realize thats what I was using for the simc output

[hexed frost]

What did you expect? Most devs are huntards. I'm not joking

[slow marsh]

Ye I mean it's obvious what classes the devs play

[clever kindle]

? Ion plays a shaman, GC played a Priest

current CEO plays a warrior

[hexed frost]

This is what they want you to know

[clever kindle]

idk many other notable devs I guess

[gusty mirage]

Bobby plays a warrior?

[clever kindle]

not bobby

the new blizzard guy

[spice spire]

@gusty mirage

[slow marsh]

Mikey

[oak sky]

Blizzard lead

[clever kindle]

ye

actual warrior that parses pretty well

and clears CE

[oak sky]

Qwik the warrior

[clever kindle]

so nice to have someone who plays the game

[slow marsh]

I just lost it and my wife asked what's wrong

[buoyant mauve]

so if were to hypothetically all copy pasta the same feedback for sin set, what changes would you guys like to see? only thing I really want is built in cdr on vendetta but that'll prob never happen

[oak sky]

Dont want that

Rather have a consistent vendetta cd so we dont get cucked by not hitting the boss

[slow marsh]

We don't need cdr on vend

[clever kindle]

Spam reporting the same issue copy pasta probably isn't going to do anything, and our suggestions are also unlikely to ever get put in wholesale. You can make pointed constructive feedback

[oak sky]

Other classes can have that

[gusty mirage]

I mean we have that with duskwalker's

[slow marsh]

We don't copy pasta spam but we do build around the same general idea and put it in our own words and that would be good

[clever kindle]

yeah have the discussion on the forum and devs will read it

[oak sky]

Add poisons to the shiv bugf

#1

[clever kindle]

rogue devs dont post but they do read

[gusty mirage]

rogue devs

[hexed frost]

Yeah. Vendetta usage was Weird for me when I started playing sin. But once I got my own group I had no trouble lining it with lieutenants and bosses

[clever kindle]

ai

[gusty mirage]

the guy who came in the fix the hvac system 3 years ago?

does that count as a dev

[oak sky]

Something has to be different with 4 pc though

[slow marsh]

We need more damage on our bleeds and poisons to make the 4p work. The 2p is a really lame attempt at that.

[clever kindle]

Rogue changes are randomly generated by AI every expansion and other classes are balanced around them

[hexed frost]

Oxi woke up today and chose violence

[gusty mirage]

Never

[clever kindle]

have you ever seen a rogue dev?

[gusty mirage]

I just like the gromnak kek

[spice spire]

iconic moments in assassination chat history

[clever kindle]

[slow marsh]

Do you also believe in the leprechauns at the end of the rainbow

[gusty mirage]

nah they're just in stealth duh

[clever kindle]

No but I did get GC to respond to a thread in the rogue forums once many moons ago

that counts right

[oak sky]

I woildnt mind if they scrapped our 4 pc and made it juice shiv instead of vendetta

In some way

[clever kindle]

[slow marsh]

Maybe but GC is making rito mmo so no

[clever kindle]

rito mmo is the only mmo I would consider playing at this point

[slow marsh]

Yeah I think that they are more set on the 4p already tho

[clever kindle]

I have 0 faith in these random ass companies trying to make an mmo

in 2021

all of them are hot garbage

[slow marsh]

It's obvious they want us to be more bleed/poison dot focused so we gotta play ball with them

[clever kindle]

the gameplay style seems weird anyways if you take exsang on top of that set bonus, wont your bleeds finish before vendetta is up

maybe

[slow marsh]

I think the best way to get 4p to work would be to completely change 2p

[slow marsh]

Yes they expire in like 8sec

[clever kindle]

yeah so..

Seems funky

[slow marsh]

But exsang is just a singular set of bleeds

[clever kindle]

That is good pointed feedback

[gusty mirage]

the best way to make the 4pc work is to speed the tick rate by 100% instead of making it expire 100% faster

[slow marsh]

Which is why it's not gonna get played

[gusty mirage]

like make it so it gives double ticks

[slow marsh]

Yes

[clever kindle]

thats what I would hope it is

[slow marsh]

What oxi said

[clever kindle]

but

[gusty mirage]

adding 25% crit to poisons to the 2pc isn't going to magically make the 4pc great lol

[slow marsh]

I mean maybe that's what they're trying to do and just flubbed the wording who knows

[oak sky]

I like the 2p better than the 4p

[spice spire]

25% crit to just poisons

[slow marsh]

Ik that's why it needs rework completely

[spice spire]

make it 25% crit period

[thorny pond]

Like I said earlier. Just rework it. Every time your poison causes ticking damage, all active bleeds instantly cause an extra tick

[spice spire]

even more of a dps cooldown

[gusty mirage]

would be nice

but also extremely boring

[spice spire]

that's pretty unreasonable too tbh

[slow marsh]

Ye that'd be too strongk

[oak sky]

They would have to make our 4p based on crit

[hexed frost]

Buff base bleed tick(maybe poison too) by 5%
Replace vendetta buff in 4P bonus with shiv
make vendetta debuff spread to targets hit by fan of knives

[slow marsh]

I'm thinking sec

[clever kindle]

make shiv grant x mutilates a guaranteed crit

[slow marsh]

Oh

[buoyant mauve]

what if they recycled t12 4pc or t13 2pc to give more of a reason to press tricks outside of pull?

[clever kindle]

[thorny pond]

Both sets need to either give some form of increased resource gain or cdr

[slow marsh]

Shiv nature damage applies to bleeds

Whisp said that already tho

[oak sky]

Maybe the bleed crits reduce shiv cd

So the set plays off itself

Did i say that already

Im fried

[spice spire]

you guys are all way off base

the 2pc should be shrouded

[gusty mirage]

would've been nice, but they seem determined on spec specific bonuses

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

Boring

Quake

[slow marsh]

It will never be shrouded

Leave shrouded in 8.3

Buried

[oak sky]

Or make it a talent

[slow marsh]

Forever

[hexed frost]

Just give restless blades to sin too

[oak sky]

Sounds awful

[spice spire]

i really just want to replace our boring ass talents

[gusty mirage]

disrespect my boy shrouded suff like that again

[slow marsh]

Kill it with fire

[buoyant mauve]

hey I'm having lots of fun with mfd obe

[slow marsh]

How can we MfD NS snap rupture vendetta exsang with shrouded

[oak sky]

Glad you like 1 talent

[thorny pond]

Keep it the same but make the 4pc have a chance to grant like 30% haste and energy regen for 4 sec every time a rupture or garrote crits

[buoyant mauve]

lol

[gusty mirage]

I'd rather just them mail in 9.2 and rework our talents for 10.0

[oak sky]

Already makes more sense

[gusty mirage]

rather than copy and paste alacrity into sin and sub

[oak sky]

Our 4 set should be shiv based or bleed crit based

[spice spire]

based oxi

[oak sky]

I believe this with my whole being

[spice spire]

fuck alacrity

[slow marsh]

K let me try off the top

[oak sky]

Assuming we keep 2p

[gusty mirage]

I don't hate alacrity

[thorny pond]

I understand how they got to the 4pc bc faster tick rate is more bleed crits since you’ll shiv in vendetta

[gusty mirage]

I just wish the other two options were actually options

[thorny pond]

Doesn’t make it good tho

[oak sky]

Plenty of classes have boring 2p bonuses but the 4p makes it more interesting

[thorny pond]

Agonizing on the left, 400% exsang on the right of alac

[slow marsh]

Wait holy shit I'm lame I was about to make 2p into alacrity 2.0

[gusty mirage]

MFers tellin me to leave shrouded in 8.3

but they're still obsessed with exsang

[slow marsh]

Leave shrouded in 8.3

[spice spire]

holy shit

[thorny pond]

I’m not that person

[buoyant mauve]

feral 4pc seems less interesting than it's 2pc imo

[spice spire]

oxi can't miss tonight

[slow marsh]

Make it all bleeds and poisons from stealth

[spice spire]

"leave exsan in 8.3"

[gusty mirage]

idk if a 400% exsang even saves it @thorny pond its bad man

[thorny pond]

400% was what it was when we last ran it unironically

[oak sky]

Feral is one class tho

[gusty mirage]

like leveling a rogue, hitting 60 and not picking a talent is more DPS than it bad

yeah cause it snapshotted the ludicrous amounts of haste we were able to obtain

and even then

shrouded helped it a lot

[thorny pond]

Nah legion. It was ironic in bfa

[gusty mirage]

oh god I don't even remember legion

it's been so long

my boomer memory doesn't go that far back

[spice spire]

didn't even play legion

[gusty mirage]

I came back in 7.3

so I didn't really get to play it much either tbh

[spice spire]

I came back in 8.3

[thorny pond]

You’d refresh dots with the two pc then shiv exsang full duration rupt and garrote 100% crit

[spice spire]

twinsies, sort of

[slow marsh]

Ok look

[thorny pond]

Probably snapshot it with a vanish nightstalker

[slow marsh]

I just want to NS snap rupture or CT

Idgaf how

Just let me

[thorny pond]

Like I just posted above lol

[spice spire]

i mean yeah

the 4 set kinda screams "snapshot me"

[thorny pond]

Lot of poison bomb praying and exsang snap shot with NS and MA lego

[slow marsh]

The problem is that 4p makes snapshots not as good cuz you have to refresh halfway or more through vend

[thorny pond]

MA Obedience with 4pc lul
Vendetta Shiv Flag vanish NS Rupt Exsang mutilate envenom spam

Degen asf

[slow marsh]

I mean add it to the list

[thorny pond]

That would be depending on blizz tuning a dead talent good

Which exsang is on their radar if they baked it into the 4pc

[slow marsh]

I find it hard to believe that we don't play dusk obed but I'm down for a degen MA build

[thorny pond]

Do they buff it and let us have both? Doubtful

[slow marsh]

I think we just forget exsang exists.

The idea that it synergizes is a mirage

[thorny pond]

Again, dusk is highly tuned around high energy regen so haste vigor but our two pc has no energy return mechanics only our 4pc

Some giga brain mapped it out and it’s still going to take an external like fairies PI or NF KA to get 1min vends

[slow marsh]

We already get vend on 1min with dusk so we don't need 2pc synergy to make it work

You can sim it right now it's like 1.1 min vend with current stats

[thorny pond]

I saw like 1min 15sec I’ll check again but someone posted about it on Sunday night

[slow marsh]

Whatever it is you sync with flag anyways so even if it's not 1min exactly you're holding it for flag regardless

[hexed frost]

Do people even play duskwatcher this tier?

[slow marsh]

Cuz harder to get flag to 1min exactly than vend

[slow marsh]

Not it's bad

But you can sim with it and check timers

[hexed frost]

Oh

Bruh just bring back tier 14 set

4 piece tier 12(the tricks of trade one) is also good one.

[slow marsh]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mtmYvhSGRrcWNJeiqAtzX7

Slightly less than 1 min vends

Some more some less

With more haste it for sure is 1min no shot it's not

And we get 25 stacks of flag on average outside of vanish without resets so that should get a bump too

[oak sky]

Bringing back old sets is just lazy

[hexed frost]

Instead of messing around with 1-2 min CD windows, wouldn't it be better to just either buff base bleeds or give the damage buff within shiv window?

[slow marsh]

Yeah I don't mind the idea behind the new set

[oak sky]

They had what 3 years to come up with ideas?

[hexed frost]

Like our strength comes from pumping as much within shiv windows, so why not just capitalize on that instead?

[oak sky]

Our strength is consistency

[slow marsh]

^

[oak sky]

A tier set could make our strength shiv windows

Potentially

But right now that just isnt the case

[hexed frost]

Yeah I get that. Was referring to how we can burst every 25 seconds if done right

[slow marsh]

I mean the easy but boring fix is just make shivs damage boost apply to bleeds

Minimal changes and mostly accomplishes the goal

[hexed frost]

Replace the 4 piece vendetta buff with shiv?

[slow marsh]

Na

You just change the bleed crit to flat dam boost to bleeds

Instead of a 1.5% dam gain we get a nice beefy bleed booster to synergize with 4p

[hexed frost]

Wait.. What's the diff?

Expiring 100% faster means it will do the damage in half the amount of time right?

[slow marsh]

It will do the same damage in half the time

But still the same damage

So you fit one extra garrote in rup in vend

[gusty mirage]

I worded it weird

same duration, just ticks twice as often

[slow marsh]

So what you're gaining is roighly 20% dam boost on whatever those two instances of bleed are

The double ticks would actually double our bleed dam in vend

Which would be sizable

It's kind of like getting 100% haste for bleeds and poisons inside of vend

Which is much better than the exsang mechanic

[hexed frost]

Yes

[slow marsh]

I think it's what the people who are speculating "sin tier set busted mega damage in vend" are misreading that it is

[strange python]

How important is using arcane torrent

Like should I just go zandalari if I'm lazy

[oak sky]

Its 45 energy in a 5 minute sim nonzero gain

[strange python]

Guess it's useful to speed up any hold windows

[slow marsh]

I'm trying to get used to using it on open still

[balmy condor]

Belf straight trash racial in 9.2 with tier set everyone race change to alliance and then apply to @slow marsh guild

[slow marsh]

I'm not alliance anymore nerd

[balmy condor]

Sorry once a rat always a rat

[slow marsh]

K

[balmy condor]

No take backsies

[slow marsh]

At least I don't have green hair

[balmy condor]

Blue

And I look fabulous

[slow marsh]

Give it a couple weeks

True actually I'm just jealous

[balmy condor]

You can color your hair too

[slow marsh]

Been there done that

Did the blue hair thing after graduating high school never going back

[oak sky]

Blue hair

Huh

[bronze pike]

I like to color myself blond :)

[balmy condor]

First time I colored my hair

Vibrant ass blue

Night before senior prom

I’m a gambling man

Didn’t even tell my girlfriend

I just rolled up with blue hair

[slow marsh]

My wife is cosmetologist if I wanted to I could really go hard in the paint with some color

[slow marsh]

what she say

[balmy condor]

I looked great

Let me see if I have a pic

[slow marsh]

Pog

[balmy condor]

[bronze pike]

You look good :)

[balmy condor]

I always look good boo 💅

[fossil coyote]

does sin sim lower than sub in general?

[balmy condor]

Slayin the game

[balmy condor]

Yes

[slow marsh]

Nice flex

[fossil coyote]

i was hoping to give sin a go but its -1.3k in sims

[bronze pike]

Oh I bet

Also I would just try out sub and sim and see which one fits you. Sub is like the best spec but I honestly can’t get into it

So I multispec sin and outlaw

[balmy condor]

But outlaw capped unplayable how do

[bronze pike]

:,D

[slow marsh]

Omegalul capped spec

[fossil coyote]

i like the idea of sub but it feels weird to play

[bronze pike]

I like the pew pew pew

And it’s fast pace nature lol

[slow marsh]

Sub not weird to play once you come to terms with the fact that you do negative damage out of dance

[bronze pike]

Stimulates the monke brain

[balmy condor]

[bronze pike]

Just keep at it, I’m sure it’ll click

[slow marsh]

I like outlaw full send mindset

[fossil coyote]

my sin friend sims less than my sub and does more, but im just pepega at sub

[fallow otter]

Well that depends on the fight

[slow marsh]

Not really

If you're holding CDs as outlaw why are you playing outlaw

[fallow otter]

O wasntreplying to you

[slow marsh]

O

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/69876-monkey-shoots-gunshot-gif-13153476

[fallow otter]

But yep, AR is part of your rotation

[bronze pike]

Outlaw

[fossil coyote]

he did more on guard, kt, sylv https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/twisting-nether/bazanik

[slow marsh]

Bro gear wut

[slow marsh]

You're fine once you get some better gear you'll be fine I'm sure

[spice spire]

don't make me pull the clip

I'll @ guy

and the rest of the outlaw cfs

[slow marsh]

I want to see it

Rogue war

[spice spire]

nah rogue wars aren't the wars worth fighting

now the rogue v boomkin war

[slow marsh]

Kek boomkins

[hollow river]

r u dreadblades

[slow marsh]

Just threaten them with a nerf and they'll crumple in tears

[bronze pike]

Yes

[fallow otter]

My rogue ST sims the same as ww with 10 less ilvls ripppp

[bronze pike]

I am the dreadblades connoisseur

[hollow river]

rogues VS. warriors, WW's, boomkins, mages, warlocks

[bronze pike]

;)

[hollow river]

all the inferior races

[slow marsh]

I tried bread blades but it didn't have enough gluten for me

[hollow river]

stop changing name x.x

[bronze pike]

Fair enough. I love it lol

[hollow river]

i still haven't tried it

it sims slightly ahead for my venthyr outlaw profile

[bronze pike]

Probs gonna stay this name for the rest of the expansion. Cause dreadblades is dead 9.2

So if you wanna try it, do it now while it still syncs with flag

[slow marsh]

Rip dreadblades. Truely a tragedy

[hollow river]

no

DB for life

[bronze pike]

Sniff sniff* damn right db for right

Lol

[slow marsh]

It died before it had a chance to live

[fossil coyote]

ok, even with my low gear i was feeling a bit pepega

[fallow otter]

If I get mythic ripper on my alt rogue tonight do I pass it on boys or do I flex the pog alt weapon

[hollow river]

pass

[slow marsh]

Pass cuz you play monk

[hollow river]

mains>alts

[bronze pike]

Big sad. I’m still enjoying it while I can, tho come 9.2 obi will just make db feel bad to click

[fallow otter]

Yeh but dhs are skum

😊 😊 😊

[slow marsh]

9.2 NF outlaw return of the breadblades

[versed mica]

You literally play monk you can't say shit lmao

[spice spire]

Nah nah

[fallow otter]

Hey I'm not skum

Lol

[spice spire]

WW are homies in raid

They provide a valid buff

Dh buff ranged

Hella sus

[slow marsh]

Na na enh are the homies

[versed mica]

Naw monks are cringe because they are broken

[slow marsh]

WW are the homie's homies

[spice spire]

Enhance whammies are for the boys

[slow marsh]

So they're cousin homies

Not as close of homie

[fallow otter]

Literally trialling a mw hence can play rogue so if ww is 9.2 trash they I'll switch back

[bronze pike]

Nf outlaw, only if they buff it. Cause I know some fairy outlaws and it kinda sucks their prefer coven underperforms sooo much

[slow marsh]

Imagine thinking ww would ever be trash after uncap

[fallow otter]

But tbh ww is fun af I won't swap if they're still solid

[bronze pike]

Ww is fun, but ever since uncap

[fossil coyote]

i leveled blood to 3 cuz i was gonna do sub but want to give sin a go is that a big oopsie?

[bronze pike]

You can tell the new ww from the pros

Sooooo hard

[fallow otter]

Well i prio mythic prog and our ST kinda meh

[slow marsh]

Ik I meme but it'd be the only way to bread blade. Even if it was a life support bread blade

[fallow otter]

Good burst still but

[versed mica]

what does NF have that makes db good?

[bronze pike]

Ran a 16 sd once, new ww monk decently gear

[versed mica]

"good" I mean

[slow marsh]

Yeah sin plays frost and sub plays blood. Unfort you gotta choose

[bronze pike]

Only did spin kick

[slow marsh]

1.5 min cd

It's not good

[versed mica]

☣️

[slow marsh]

It's just the only chance dreadblades has to live

[oak sky]

Doesnt matter in raid

[bronze pike]

Big doubt tbh. Venthyr was good cause it sync and you got max haste in literal seconds

Sepsis syncs

[versed mica]

it does when there's only 1 ST boss next raid

[slow marsh]

Soulrender. Painsmith. Fatescribe

[bronze pike]

But it will never be good, in fact it would probs be worse with 9.2 venthyr db

[slow marsh]

Kt

WW just needs one add fight in raid and it's insta even without the raid buff

[bronze pike]

Cause you could theoretically get your second flag to 50-40 CD range maybe more

After the first initial sync

[fallow otter]

Lots of bad monks though, especially kyrian ones

[bronze pike]

^

Not bad monks

New monks

That only went monk cause omglol meta

[fallow otter]

Haha yeh I'm sure that describes a bunch of them

[slow marsh]

Yeah it would be bad. Only thing I can think of is somehow doing max nut dam for 10secs with dreadblades into Toxic onslaught proc

[bronze pike]

And getting insta invited cause they’re monk.

Lol

[slow marsh]

There's more bad rogues right now than new monks

[bronze pike]

Honestly it’ll take a lot to make db a into a talent that can stand on its own

[slow marsh]

I agree it truely is a ripperino

[bronze pike]

This is also true for the same reason. Omg sub meta. But new class players can always turn into good players

[versed mica]

just get rid of alacrity

easy

[bronze pike]

Just takes practice, people pick up classes faster than others

Ehh

[oak sky]

They have to buff everything else if we lose alacrity

[bronze pike]

Alac is to good to just get rid off

Exactly agreon

[slow marsh]

Remove snd buff alacrity make it baseline

I fix all rogue problems

This one is free next one will cost ya

[bronze pike]

Lol imagine alac baseline for outlaw

[versed mica]

🧠 🌩️

[bronze pike]

You can’t even add dreadblades to restless blades

Cause that will turn into a nasty loop.

[slow marsh]

The argument surrounding snd and alacrity being bad for rogue is the same just slam them together and make them baseline I don't get it

[versed mica]

*epic loop

[bronze pike]

Only thing you can do is bake in greed procs to it

Like the artifact weapon

[slow marsh]

Na DB can't truely be good because it's counterintuitive with cto

DB means lots of dispatch which means lots of buffs but your best buffs don't really get used cuz you're in DB

[versed mica]

cto baseline next expack or i revolt

you saw nothing

[slow marsh]

Wut

[versed mica]

exactly

[bronze pike]

Probs should move this to outlaw chat

[slow marsh]

I want shiv to not be the way it is

[versed mica]

oh this isn't outlaw

lmaoo

[bronze pike]

Oh get back to sin stuff

Isn’t sl shiv like that bfa talent?

[slow marsh]

Yeah it's toxic blade

It's huge for us right now cuz envenom big dam but I wish it wasn't

[oak sky]

Shiv isnt that big

[slow marsh]

I like the idea of 9 second small burst window every 25s and a big one every 2mins but it just doesn't seem like sin gameplay

[oak sky]

Its not crazy levels of burst

[versed mica]

they need to do a huge rework of sin tbh

it's been essentially the same spec for 3 expacks now

[slow marsh]

Its not crazy u right but it's the top 2 most important buttons we press on cd

[versed mica]

with some minor differences from borrowed power

[oak sky]

Shiv is important for sure

But like they always say its an uptime debuff

[slow marsh]

Ye that's what I mean.

[oak sky]

You want it up a lot but it just amplifies our passive shit to be less bad

[slow marsh]

I wish it wasn't that way

[oak sky]

Oh i would love to have our tier set be a proper shiv as a cd thing

[slow marsh]

Ye I think my fav realistic change is to have shiv affect bleeds though

[oak sky]

Just not sure if theyre willing to make changes that big

[slow marsh]

No shot they do a cdr rider on shiv or a bleeds + poisons tick twice change

[bronze pike]

I mean

Fair I guess

How would you like sin to be like?

[slow marsh]

I'd love those but they'd be too strong

[bronze pike]

Unpopular opinion, but when a spec stays similar for three exapansions. That’s usually a good thing. Like you tune it based on community feedback

[limber lion]

Not true.

[bronze pike]

But if a spec stays the same without huuuge overhauls then it usually means it’s a success

Oh

[slow marsh]

People are tired of the same ole same ole on sin

[limber lion]

Instead of major rehauls, we've instead gotten 51% aura buffs

[oak sky]

It can be a success but total stagnancy is bad

[limber lion]

You can buff the shit out of a bad spec as well

And make it competitive

Doesn't mean it's good

It's the same spec, different numbers

[slow marsh]

We shouldn't need to be getting boosted 51% from baseline to compete.

[limber lion]

Yeh

[bronze pike]

Fair enough, That is a extremely good point

[limber lion]

More often than not a spec is failing if it relies on aura buffs instead of proper reworks/buffs.

[bronze pike]

I was just thinking in the terms of shaman, they went through like 3 overhauls and it’s still a terrible class that feels unfinished

[limber lion]

We need a talent rehaul and a look into our numbers

[slow marsh]

I would like to see sin be more dynamic and play more inside of windows, rewarding good gameplay and big brain actions

[oak sky]

Ele feels pretty good to play imo

But enh looks like a shitshow

[slow marsh]

That's what cev wants too I think with his degen exsang build

[bronze pike]

A talent rework would be amazing tbh

[limber lion]

Yeh, there are definitely some specs which feel unfinished, but even then slapping aurabuffs on top will make it competitive, as sad as it is

[slow marsh]

I should feel like I'm doing some 5head shit not just pressing 1 every 25s and slamming envenom as hard as I can in vendetta

[limber lion]

Class balance is really tough to sort out

[bronze pike]

To many dead talents tbh

[oak sky]

Yeah every talent should have some use case

[bronze pike]

And that’s a given for all the rogue specs

[slow marsh]

Ye I like what we have with BS / EP

[oak sky]

Even if some utility talents are good in world and some are mostly for pvp

[bronze pike]

But I do agree that class balance is hard. Just looking at enh and it’s 3 reworks, made me kinda okay that ret and outlaw relatively stayed the same in the past 3 expansions

[oak sky]

Ret is banging rn

[slow marsh]

Even though even that example is bad since you take EP 99% of the time currently

[oak sky]

Tbh

[bronze pike]

Don’t have to tell me twice

[hollow river]

[bronze pike]

I main ret

[fallow otter]

Wait for 9.2 ret

[oak sky]

Wake reset looks awesome to me

[fallow otter]

Better get you pvp on

[slow marsh]

I looked at ret bonus but it's like reading latin to me

No comprende

[bronze pike]

Easy translation then friend

[oak sky]

The seraphim proc is like a stat proc

Wake is a 45s big generator aoe

[bronze pike]

Out auto attacks proc a free 2 holy power generator (2cp)

Procs 4 times a min with talent

[hollow river]

OH NO

now ret is gonna be even better with WFT

[oak sky]

Yeah

Basically

[hollow river]

sadge

give me wft

[slow marsh]

The final nail in the coffin for dh

[oak sky]

And we get worse because frost is gone

[bronze pike]

2pc makes the proc due a generic stat % boost for 2 seconds

4pc makes our proc proc our heavy hitting 3 cp generator instead of our noodle 2cp generator

Which is huge

[slow marsh]

Just tell them you're outlaw and jebait the wft group

[hollow river]

didn't even have monk buff for reclear

[oak sky]

Fuck u mean ill claim sub

[slow marsh]

Sounds good

[bronze pike]

Tho I hope they tune the 2pc cause 2 seconds of serap doesn’t do much

[slow marsh]

Outlaw stonks going through the roof with 2p. Way better than sub

For wft

[oak sky]

Outlaw has a nice 2p but the 4p is pretty meh

[slow marsh]

Ye

[bronze pike]

I don’t pvp lol but o can see nf ret being a monster

[hollow river]

if it works with pistol leggo

[slow marsh]

If sin doesn't pan out I'm looking to outlaw to save me from sub degeneracy

[hollow river]

it could be poggers

[bronze pike]

Outlaw 2pc is a huge damage boost best case scenario

[slow marsh]

Outlaw wants 4p to buff the bte proc or something cuz right now it ain't shit

[bronze pike]

4pc just needs to make bte cost 0 cp and add a charge OR bake ace trait into it for fat btes

[oak sky]

Best case is outlaw 4p getting some updating so its actually good

[slow marsh]

Ye

[bronze pike]

Sin