alright, then i should be upgrading Shard of Cor right ?
#assassination
plain onyx
gusty mirage
Ye that’s the damage one right?
plain onyx
yup
gusty mirage
Yeppers do that one then the absorb one then tel
soft shale
oof
plain onyx
yeah fucked up in this lol
viscid spear
Tbf I got all my UH to R5 before doing the same with my Frost
Ofc this was before Dashing became pog
static rock
when doing our rotation do we take seal fate into account or no?
slow marsh
No
static rock
okay thanks!
visual prairie
so i guess they doubled down on sin not being able to get any utility from shiv
limber lion
when doing our rotation do we take seal fate into account or no?
Only if you're at the tippity top and trying to minmax everything
limber lion
so i guess they doubled down on sin not being able to get any utility from shiv
It's fine
I hate having things tied to Shiv
slow marsh
It's fine we just riot during ptr
static rock
Only if you're at the tippity top and trying to minmax everything
okay yeah that’s my goal so i was wondering in reference to using shiv or garrote at -1 from max?
slow marsh
Shiv on CD
limber lion
okay yeah that’s my goal so i was wondering in reference to using shiv or garrot...
You can always use garrote at max-1
timid cloud
Just sandbag all of PTR for us so we can get buffs.
limber lion
You pool on Mutilate at 3CP if Shiv is coming off cd
timid cloud
limber lion
Nothing too difficult
slow marsh
There won't be a need to sandbag
visual prairie
i guess we'll see how it actually works out after balance, but sub tier seems nuts.
slow marsh
It will automatically underperform during ptr
timid cloud
Idk how I feel about it regardless.
visual prairie
assassination tier seems like it was designed to make crappy things competitive but doesn't really boost anythign we're already doing
limber lion
Sub does look pretty good
timid cloud
Seems kinda wack.
limber lion
I hate the RNG portion of it but eh
slow marsh
Outlaw seems good if the ps gives cp
muted ivy
depends on interactions but ya sub is probably pretty good
static rock
what should i look at in logs, i’m using shiv on cd, i have good uptime on bleeds but my parse is lower then i believe it should be
limber lion
what should i look at in logs, i’m using shiv on cd, i have good uptime on bleed...
How many externals are you getting?
Are you syncing cds accordingly?
timid cloud
Send the log in.
gusty mirage
How many externals are you getting?
The million dollar question these days 
slow marsh
Better get them while they last
slow marsh
We aint getting shit next tier as of now
static rock
first guardian kill
gloomy knoll
Mage go be getting kindred and pi
slow marsh
Yee
gusty mirage
MFers sitting there w/ like 4 PIs, kindred tether with 12 empowerments, and fae guardians
limber lion
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jzwPByZbt7pfX46g#fight=1&type=damage-done
Look into syncing Flag/Vend
You missed a cast of Flag, but you'll probably kill it quicker next time
You can sync every single cast of Vend with Flag
static rock
so do I hold flag?
limber lion
Edibles log review
limber lion
do you really hold flag / sync it up
As long as you don't miss casts, you sync
muted ivy
depends on fight length
limber lion
In this example you would send because the fight was 04:50
But on a fight like 04:30 you would sync every time
clever kindle
Just to deliver some PTSD into the room this morning, imagine getting parried during flag because your tank yeeted halfway across the room and the boss turned
twice
limber lion
What a beautiful breakdown.
limber lion
Just to deliver some PTSD into the room this morning, imagine getting parried du...
hate that
muted ivy
fuck painsmith for that stupid immunity when he jumps down
slow marsh
What a beautiful breakdown.
Cursed
clever kindle
slow marsh
What is that like 6k overall
clever kindle
What build is that breakdown from
grand ridge
Only showing the opener smh
clever kindle
oh I didnt look at totals
grand ridge
Flag would be up there too if you were venth
clever kindle
coffee hasnt kicked in
cerulean nest
any very specific things on Fate>KT>Sylv where not having a DK is super bad? ours left and we aren't sure whether to waste time recruiting another or not for the last 3
humble ginkgo
@limber lion is the tier set any good or its pretty shit
slow marsh
on that sin life now
Ytho
clever kindle
why, outlaw is fine
humble ginkgo
doesnt sound too good
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> is the tier set any good or its pretty shit
It's meh
humble ginkgo
well everyone in my fucking guild cannot stop saying 'outlaw dead play x play x playx "
limber lion
Not too exciting
clever kindle
I still think there will be an exsanguinated juice build
limber lion
Outlaw and Sub are doing fine
slow marsh
Outlaw gonna be fine in 9.2 tbh
clever kindle
Maybe I dont see how the sin set is bad
muted ivy
any very specific things on Fate>KT>Sylv where not having a DK is super bad? our...
sylv grips can be useful, but i don't think there's anything major
soft shale
@cerulean nest only thing a dk could do on those bosses is amz and maybe pre ams some debuffs
nothing huge
cerulean nest
gotcha ty
limber lion
Maybe I dont see how the sin set is bad
It's fine, but not great
muted ivy
ah ya, ams is good for sylv soaks but again nothing major that only they can do
limber lion
Other specs got much more exciting things
slow marsh
Outlaw getting shadow tech is way more exciting than sin stuff
limber lion
2p doesn't increase poison damage, 4p is just exsanguinate (which is the worst talent in our entire tree)
viscid spear
well everyone in my fucking guild cannot stop saying 'outlaw dead play x play x ...
Mine doesn't know Rogue and won't understand how underwhelming the Sin set is
grand ridge
Assassination has the best 4 piece set bonus in my heart
clever kindle
We don't know trinkets or their interactions, and are they still bad running at 4x the dot tick rate, to me it just seems similar to the way we set up in nyalotha
slow marsh
If this is going to be our tier set then we need some other BP or tuning to buff bleeds
muted ivy
We don't know trinkets or their interactions, and are they still bad running at ...
ya but in nya our bleeds actually did damage
limber lion
I mean subterfuge already sims equal or higher for me
My guy
slow marsh
Nya there was this very minor thing called shrouded suff
humble ginkgo
for some reason they think that the sin set is betetr than the outlaw one
humble ginkgo
when outlaw ltierally has crazy synergy with leggo
and will be good
but they also hear
limber lion
Remember the azerite trait that legit 30 times'd our garrote damage?
clever kindle
yes
humble ginkgo
OMG SHADOWBLADES
limber lion
So it's bad
slow marsh
when outlaw ltierally has crazy synergy with leggo
Yeah people who are speculating on rogue literally just don't play rogue
limber lion
Even with Shrouded Suffocation Exsang was bad
It was only good with BOTH Shrouded and 70% haste
humble ginkgo
Yeah people who are speculating on rogue literally just don't play rogue
Literally
unreal
limber lion
We don't have either of those things
slow marsh
It's driving me insane and it's only been not even 24hrs
clever kindle
we will have effectively 75%+ crit on them which will be nice
slow marsh
No we wont
clever kindle
at full mythic gear
soft shale
funniest shit i still cant cope is the bonus would be kinda good for necro but their cov leggo is so bad
you cant even think about it
slow marsh
We aren't gonna have 50% crit anymore
muted ivy
"hey blizz, our main cd literally feels like shit"
"ok cool dw, you won't have to press it anymore" 
limber lion
we will have effectively 75%+ crit on them which will be nice
what
how would you have 75% crit
We only build crit because we use the frost set
Once the frost set is disabled, we get rid of all crit
And stack haste again
slow marsh
Well not all but yeah I get what you mean lol
soft shale
haste mastery andies
slow marsh
Crit is still > haste for venth
clever kindle
if you were going a build like that where you have artificial bleed buffs in terms of speed wouldnt that drive up values for crit
humble ginkgo
I was told that assasination rogue tier set CANNOT be bad becausea its a free talent and outlaw is "Booty cheeks"
XD
limber lion
if you were going a build like that where you have artificial bleed buffs in ter...
Haste and crit have similar weighting
and most likely will in 9.2
clever kindle
Yeah that I know
limber lion
I was told that assasination rogue tier set CANNOT be bad becausea its a free ta...
LUL
worst talent in existence
unlucky
humble ginkgo
Like literally
slow marsh
We'll likely land just around 40% crit with sCaLiNg
clever kindle
I bet they play warlock
slow marsh
Tell them they're dumb and play the class before they speculate
grand ridge
Secondary stats don't get as out of control as they did in previous expansions
fallow otter
We'll likely land just around 40% crit with sCaLiNg
there is a more suitable %
slow marsh
Everyone is just getting nya vibes and forgetting that we're missing shrouded suff
fallow otter
slow marsh
Lmao
humble ginkgo
yea man the 0.1% chance of it lining up
hollow river
humble ginkgo
slow marsh
How can outlaw be bad
grand ridge
Blade flurry can suck my ass that's why
slow marsh
Outlaw literally is the most cp hungry spec
humble ginkgo
I just hope we see some tuning tho I dont mind playing sin
slow marsh
And they're giving shadow tech passive
humble ginkgo
exactly
slow marsh
And then chance to reset the best ST button
slow marsh
Like
grand ridge
We don't take kindly to your type round these parts
soft shale
maybe assa also plays kyrian to get 7 cp ruptures in vendetta kek
slow marsh
Kek
I tried to meme with that last night
Couldn't even think of a convincing way to present it
humble ginkgo
also yea how bad is it the bleed 100% faster?
bc currently in vendetta ur already forced to reapply ur original dots
soft shale
its not bad per se
slow marsh
It will give decent burst but
soft shale
just not strong enough to matter
soft shale
vs sub and outlaw sets
slow marsh
We only reapply rup once in vendetta so not terrible
slow marsh
Tbh if they tweaked the 2p the 4p is somewhat workable
Like if 2p gave crit for poison and bleed together
muted ivy
make 2pc work with poisons and buff bleeds a little bit
humble ginkgo
I really dont get how rogue gets really shit tier sets
and every other class gets good one
other than DH
muted ivy
and every other class gets good one
grand ridge
Tbh I just think they need to make the 2p a bit less boring. I like the 4p
slow marsh
We've known this for all of xpac
slow marsh
Same
grand ridge
If it did aoe that would be great but assassination isn't an aoe spec anyways I guess
slow marsh
Our aoe is fine it's nbd
grand ridge
Or maybe they could somehow make the 2p buff our aoe and ST
slow marsh
The outlaw tier set makes sense why they didn't uncap
Stupid reason but makes sense if they were dead set on this idea already
muted ivy
would be kinda sweet to pop vendetta and just spam out CTs
slow marsh
Or maybe they could somehow make the 2p buff our aoe and ST
If they made 2p a bit better then it would make 4p good enough to not be laughable together
Yeah spam CT in shiv
The complete opposite of what we want
muted ivy
slow marsh
Just erase envenom I guess
gusty mirage
slow marsh
Idk I guess I shouldn't be too doom and gloom. There's at least some potential there as long as they're willing to tweak
muted ivy
key part there is "willing to tweak" and we all know how that goes
slow marsh
Yeah exactly
limber lion
Spamming a single ability is degenerate gameplay and I'm not for it
slow marsh
Well in vend we will have to hit CT every what 4-5 s
gusty mirage
Well boys
Go level fae renown
Wait for Cev to unlock the secret tech
And then smooth sail into 9.2
muted ivy
Spamming a single ability is degenerate gameplay and I'm not for it
idk i think spamming a single ability for specifically in certain CDs can be fun
gloomy knoll
fae would be fun
slow marsh
He's trying his hardest
gusty mirage
Only covenant I don’t have leveled at all 
muted ivy
now spamming fan->black powder the whole dungeon fkin sucks
gusty mirage
Good thing you can swap now
gusty mirage
Ye I don’t think they remove that after a patch
muted ivy
hopefully we can still swap w/e we want
??????? no way that changes
gusty mirage
That’d be stupid as fuck on their end lmao
limber lion
It doesn't no lol.
gloomy knoll
well don't you need max renown now
limber lion
No
gloomy knoll
to swap
limber lion
No
muted ivy
would be literally insane
gloomy knoll
will it stay at 80 or change to a new max
limber lion
I wouldn't be NF now if I needed max renown
gusty mirage
Imagine “jk about conduit energy and cov swapping stay mad nerds 
“
limber lion
There will be no more renown
gloomy knoll
is what i mean
limber lion
Pretty sure they said that
grand ridge
Empowered conduits are nice but you get the whole kit at 40 renown, and you will get 80 quick enough
limber lion
We're getting upgrades from the Zenith Mortis Codex
gusty mirage
Empowered conduits are nice but you get the whole kit at 40 renown, and you will...
Well most of the kit at 40
Iirc it’s like 70ish that unlocks the final tier?
muted ivy
looks sorta like torg knowledge/visions talent tree thing
grand ridge
I'm sure this new system will be alt friendly and not affect your raid dps at all 🤡
slow marsh
I mean who knows maybe we get shrouded suff in codex and we are all freaking out for nothing
Massive x doubt but I'm gonna try to be more optimistic
thorn turtle
is necro good or am i high on copium?
humble ginkgo
in 9.2 prolly not with covenant leggos right?
humble ginkgo
ye
slow marsh
You're telling me they have a chance for time gated borrowed power system and they are going to use it for world buffs / crafting ? No shot
thorn turtle
so i think i won't craft the leggo for spike
limber lion
Yeh you can stay away from Necro for now
gloomy knoll
imagine forcing people to wear a 0% st gain legendary
humble ginkgo
NF stonks 
gloomy knoll
smooth moove blizzard
on the plus side
if we put in enough reports
MAYBE death spike rework
humble ginkgo
also its kinda sad how we're going to 9.2 and we will prolly do less damage / the specs overall wil lfeel worse
proven brook
doubtful
slow marsh
I'm setting up my ptr account rn to spam feedback
slow marsh
also its kinda sad how we're going to 9.2 and we will prolly do less damage / th...
This is what I said
And I got looked down upon
Even though it's true
humble ginkgo
I mean yea its true
humble ginkgo
Outlaw cant really feel worse tho since free BTE
but sin will for sure feel worse which is sad
slow marsh
Yeah outlaw will get super high good buff uptime too
humble ginkgo
tuning
fallen plover
ye its sad we are going to go from all 3 specs being viable to 1 maybe 2 being viable.
and i assume everyone just plays venth cause that has the best leggo
muted ivy
<:Prayge:795891960891179029> tuning
copiuming
muted ivy
and i assume everyone just plays venth cause that has the best leggo
sub could go kyrian
muted ivy
venth obviously still good for sub too
gloomy knoll
i mean we're only losing
like 1.-1.5k from tier sets
*gem sets
i'm fairly certain the ilvl alone will cover that
and with tier sets + leggo + w/e codex is
i'm sure we won't do less damage lmao
charred wraith
Some more cto ranks and free cp for more dispatch yum
Its already 90% idk where you found randomness unless low-rolling 5 gm's in a row which you wont bc cto
slow marsh
90% isn't 100
visual prairie
it is 90% of the time
muted ivy
LOL
dawn ivy
muted ivy
very true
slow marsh
You know how many times with 98% crit I still only get 3 co from mut
More than twice out of a 100 pulls I'll tell you that much
charred wraith
Thats a you problem 
slow marsh
Na
timid cloud
Sheesh, it was so slow just the other day, now every 5m I come back there’s 200+ messages I missed.
slow marsh
That's cuz it's a perfect time to pretend to be a TC
slow marsh
then shit on everyone else's takes that are different from your own bad takes
slow marsh
You should be rooting for him mr MP
timid cloud
Okay real talk. I will never be serious about it.
slow marsh
ikik
slow marsh
unfortunately it's in the same row as EP
otherwise i'd actually be on board with the 9.2 MP hype
spice spire
You guys are right we’re looking at the toxic onslaught - bloodfang meta
With MP/NS/MFD/Exsang/CT single target you’ve cracked the code
This is very obviously a troll post, please do not take this seriously. We know nothing until PTR
fallen plover
anyone else hoping they change the 4set it seems so boring 
viscid spear
The Frost section in the Mage Discord is dealing with a wave of people doomsaying the spec and claiming to go Fire now. It died down but it was pretty heated
slow marsh
anyone else hoping they change the 4set it seems so boring <:ithurtstolive:54524...
tbh hoping they change 2p over the 4p
the 4p can be doable if they were to make 2p better
slow marsh
yeah
fallen plover
i dont like set bonuses tied to cooldowns
dawn ivy
hope 2p turns into poisons and bleed, and make the 4p just double proc rates of bleeds/poisons instead of cutting the duration in half
misty holly
hope 2p turns into poisons and bleed, and make the 4p just double proc rates of ...
I'm hoping Whispyr gets on the community council and can tell them how bad the set bonus is before it goes live.
dawn ivy
i.....doubt that even the best case scenario a "council member" wont be able to effect any changes until 10.0
viscid spear
Y'all ready for more Defiling? 
gusty mirage
It’s my fault guys
gloomy knoll
still waiting on whispyrs scathing twitter post
gusty mirage
I willed the buff to WW monk into existence
gusty mirage
I said they’re going to buff ww monk for no reason and I was right
gloomy knoll
lmao
gusty mirage
bleak sky
Y'all ready for more Defiling? <:arthaskek:794420506136674364>
i don't know what that is
limber lion
I'm glad there's a lot of good combos out there for the gamers
We're all in this together
😸
slow marsh
the best we can do is get into the ptr and send in tons of comments for suggestions on how to make sin tier better
misty holly
Imagine a ground aoe effect that grows every time the tick hits someone. It can grow big enough to fill the entire room and kill everyone. Now imagine that in LFR
spice spire
I sure with doing scathing things like this. If you just say “lol it’s garbage fix this” without an actionable replacement, that’s just crying about the problem. Having a solution to said problem is the harder part 
muted ivy
i mean, it's not like it's super far from being something good
slow marsh
I sure with doing scathing things like this. If you just say “lol it’s garbage f...
This
bleak sky
Imagine a ground aoe effect that grows every time the tick hits someone. It can ...
can't wait for it to be invisible
muted ivy
"it's garbage, fix it by either buffing bleeds so they actually do damage or working poisons into it better"
spice spire
But what whispyr said last night also means the issue is slightly more complex. You want more haste for more bleed damage for set bonus; but if you only index into haste you’re already not needing energy regen; so it creates a problem of “I want this stat, but only kind of”
Then what else do we index into?
misty holly
So Mastery is back on the table, then?
truly dark times ahead
limber lion
I keep telling yall
spice spire
Mastery even with this set up is just the less bad option, also assuming venthyr
Cev pls
timid cloud
You. Are. Not. Gaslighting. Me. Again.
drowsy parcel
at this point im hoping for night fae to pop off
misty holly
lets get some Necrolord warriors in my group. I want that mastery banner.
drowsy parcel
i dont want to play venthyr in 9.2
limber lion
at this point im hoping for night fae to pop off
Good
You and me buddy
Imagine wanting to play the same covenant for 3 patches
crazy people
timid cloud
I’m indifferent to the covenants.
Now that the transmog goes across the account after you max them out.
bleak sky
cev right now:
viscid spear
i don't know what that is
bleak sky
"NF GOOD FOR SURE"
timid cloud
I just...I just wish Sepsis wasn’t a steaming pile of dog water.
spice spire
Respect the man wanting something different
bleak sky
<a:What:585739278987034647>
i'm a wow zoomer, giga casual during legion, skipped bfa and basically started playing in shadowlands
spice spire
I can’t blame him - Necrolord/venthyr gaming for several months in a row is pretty 
restive bone
with the set bonuses, do any of you think the vendetta cd lego is going to be a dark horse or still dog shit outside of pvp?
vestal wren
Imagine wanting to play the same covenant for 3 patches
subtlety has 3/4 done
kyrian -> nf -> venthyr -> kyrian
limber lion
subtlety has 3/4 done
Yeah, and Necro will never be touched ever
spice spire
Necro sub
timid cloud
Will I die a Sin rogue? Or will I live long enough to become the Sub Rogue main?
limber lion
I mean, some people used to play Kyrian Assa for the first few weeks of Shadowlands
Before Night Fae became bis
timid cloud
I do recall that.
slow marsh
with the set bonuses, do any of you think the vendetta cd lego is going to be a ...
Dusk looking to be the favorite
limber lion
But eh, we didn't play either covenant for too long
viscid spear
i'm a wow zoomer, giga casual during legion, skipped bfa and basically started p...
I always feel bad for the players that never experienced ICC
limber lion
The second Flag got reworked, we swapped
timid cloud
Because Echoing was the only strong one.
slow marsh
Necro was good for sire though so there was at least some variance there
Necro was insane for sire
limber lion
Yeh
slow marsh
Cuz bug
timid cloud
If Sub didn’t feel so clunky as Necro, they’d all be decent.
slow marsh
Na sepsis definitely needs help
timid cloud
But we were also struggling pre-9.0.5
slow marsh
Don't let this man fool you
slow marsh
The worst with the best powers tho
visual prairie
i dont' think sadist is right
slow marsh
defile means cloak rogue util hopium ?
If we're good for last boss then it doesn't really matter how shit our tier set is right
limber lion
We won't be good just because we can afk in defile
limber lion
There's a lot of hard immunities in the game nowadays, so I doubt it's enough to bring a rogue in
slow marsh
the defile is more of a meme cuz just take ranged lul
yeah idk i'm trying to balance hopeful optimism alongside my realist takes
viscid spear
Sucks my guild is all but on hiatus untip 9.2, no one to talk to about this new raid and tier sets
limber lion
good thing you can talk about it here
slow marsh
More fun talking about it here too imo
viscid spear
Yeah ik, it's great being able to talk with people that can tell the difference between Outlaw and Combat.
slow marsh
Exactly lol
viscid spear
We were two tiers deep after they made that change, "How did Rogue get a 4th spec?" "wdym?" "They added something called Outlaw"
sand sigil
@limber lion u actually think the set bonuses are meh compared to the other classes? raid only
i don't think sin's is that bad tbh maybe i'm copiumed
like seems better than a lot of other classes on ST
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> u actually think the set bonuses are meh compared to the o...
I mean it is definitely an interesting concept, but Exsanguinate is just a relic of the past. If Shiv also affected poison crits, it would be a good 2p.
We lose our frost set which is one of the major driving forces behind the spec
viscid spear
It's like bottom 3 across all class sets, something needs to be done
limber lion
Exsang was good in 8.3 with Shrouded Suffo and 70% haste, but without either it's just awful. And we don't get either of those.
sand sigil
hmmmm
limber lion
But we're not entirely sure of the numbers yet, something like Obedience + Duskwalker's might be good, which might give the 4p more value
sand sigil
i mean if u played many mangle and doomblade shiv would make those gain value too. plus yeah the duskwalker build sounds interesting on paper
frosty cedar
1 minute rogue esketit
viscid spear
But yeah, like Cev's been saying we need to wait until PTR and the actual patch is months off.
limber lion
i mean if u played many mangle and doomblade shiv would make those gain value to...
Yeh, to some extent, but neither of those actually do that much damage to make a difference
Nor do they give energy back, unlike Rupture/Garrote
sand sigil
well i guess but i don't think ud need them to give back energy cuz ud probably be energy capped during vendetta anyways
limber lion
I mean, I would love to play NF with Toxic Onslaught + Doomblade
Buuuut we'll probably be Venthyr with either Doomblade or Duskwalkers
sand sigil
hmmmm i feel like they're decent anyways compared to a lot of other classes. at least sub's also sound good so we got options. the gear also is like 400+ unavoidable haste too which isn't the worst thing in the world for sin lmao
limber lion
Yeah that's true, but a lot of our damage is currently tied to the frost set
It's really hard to say where we will stand come 9.2
Sub is definitely great and the tier set is really good
And doesn't rely on a shard set as much
So they don't lose out on much
sand sigil
true. plus u can still cheese shadowdust with it for that little extra juice lol
limber lion
Yuup
timid cloud
I wonder if Doomblade would have that bleed tick faster during vendetta too.
limber lion
But I sincerely hope me and Whispyr are incorrect in our estimates
Because I'm hyped for Exsang gameplay
timid cloud
I bet it’ll just be the vendetta booties
limber lion
I wonder if Doomblade would have that bleed tick faster during vendetta too.
Definitely would
sand sigil
does frost really do that much more than blood tho? i feel like blood does 10-12% and frost does 12-14
limber lion
does frost really do that much more than blood tho? i feel like blood does 10-12...
It's been a while since I've looked at the numbers so I can't remember. But Blood is the worst set we have and Frost is the best by far. Pretty sure it's more than 2%.
grand ridge
They should make the two piece when you shiv you get a buff where all poisons and bleeds crit more
limber lion
They should make the two piece when you shiv you get a buff where all poisons an...
That has been the main criticism
It's weird how the 4p affects bleeds and poisons
But the 2p doesn't
grand ridge
This would also give us an aoe benefit
limber lion
How
muted ivy
blood/unholy for sub doesn't interact directly like how frost and crit does for sin
limber lion
I think adding the "- - and poisons" line would be enough to make it good.
shadow tulip
Give us SS trait back somehow and I'm good
sand sigil
it's always tough cuz
limber lion
Whispyr did some intial sims of the tier set and it was rocking a good ~3% overall from p2 and p4 combined.
sand sigil
at the start of a lot of tiers u sit there and like well sub looks pretty sick. and then sin is better for prog once again
limber lion
Yeah unless Sub is over the top, Sin will likely be the go-to choice for raiding for many
sand sigil
i mean sub was at least good for painsmith and fatescribe this tier. kt as well i suppose
limber lion
Sin was awful in 9.0 CN so it didn't see any play
spice spire
Give us SS trait back somehow and I'm good
I’ll bark
limber lion
but if it's at least mid tier, it'll be fine
limber lion
i mean sub was at least good for painsmith and fatescribe this tier. kt as well ...
Some people swear by Sub p3 as well
But I did 11k in p3 as well as Assa, so we're chillin
spice spire
Yeah but Cev, you’re also a nutter
shadow tulip
Yeah but Cev, you’re also a nutter
Nutter? Inside or outside?
limber lion
sand sigil
but if it's at least mid tier, it'll be fine
i mean i feel like sin and sub will still be really strong st compared to everything else, all else equal
limber lion
i mean i feel like sin and sub will still be really strong st compared to everyt...
Could be, but I honestly feel like Sub will be quite a bit ahead in ST.
sand sigil
like i don't know if "ah sin 2 piece set bonus is shit guess we lose to ww on ST now" 😂
muted ivy
hopefully
limber lion
There are some actual crazy combinations with tier sets and 2 legendaries though
Which we don't have like... at all
sand sigil
yeah i mean if there's a ton of interactions w/ akaari and weaponmaster and they generate combo points and all that then it'll be nuts
limber lion
Like Venthyr Havoc with Eye Beam legendary, Kyrian Arcane Mage with the new tier set, Venthyr Fire Mage
a lot of nutty things
sand sigil
also if the shadow blades 5s stacks is a question
limber lion
yeah i mean if there's a ton of interactions w/ akaari and weaponmaster and they...
Yeh exactly
sand sigil
like u could do a finisher and get 15s shadow blades
limber lion
The tooltips are always god awful so who knows how stuff actually works
But Sub definitely looks insane if the tier set gives CP
Just get your Akaari's and go ham
sand sigil
i wonder if it will stack infinitely too lol. like slice on sin caps at whatever seconds, wonder if blades will too
lmao imagine blades for like 3 minutes
limber lion
i wonder if it will stack infinitely too lol. like slice on sin caps at whatever...
Yeh, but Slice only caps because of combo point/pandemic limitations
Don't think there's actual limits
Similar to how Outlaw can get 5 minute Slice's
sand sigil
yeah that's what i was thinkin. although from probability standpoint it'd probably be pretty rare to get ur blades over 1 minute
slow marsh
i wonder if it will stack infinitely too lol. like slice on sin caps at whatever...
yeah it would be more like DH eyebeam you mean
limber lion
yeah that's what i was thinkin. although from probability standpoint it'd probab...
Yeh, the set does get massive benefit in AoE though as well
slow marsh
like does the proc extend SB duration during SB, if so then the possibility of 80% SB is very real
sand sigil
yeah that sounds fun too
if it gave cps u could sometimes like 6cp evisc 3 times in a row or something nutty
slow marsh
yeah it'd be borderline broken
limber lion
Yeh
limber lion
Just gotta wait and see what happens. If it interacts with Akaari/WM, it's getting insta-nerfed
sand sigil
u could get the evisc spam
slow marsh
We'll probs need your influence to get sin tier looked at now that you are rogue's one true hope
sand sigil
we'll see lot more changes to be done
would be sick to play sub on prog tho sounds fun
slow marsh
well as it stands right now that's looking like the play
even with sin turning into a 1min spec idk if it will be able to pump enough in the 20s window to make up for the lackluster boost we're getting compared to others
limber lion
I'm putting all of my hopium on NF Toxic Onslaught + Doomblade + Exsang
spice spire
Cev pls
slow marsh
Cev
limber lion
Ya'll are haters
slow marsh
This is your fault to begin with
I don't mind exsang tech but it needs to be good at least
limber lion
Bleed tier set? 
Exsang?
indigo mulch
slow marsh
Besides I don't get your fascination with toxic
Outside of just being something different
Niya gives less mastery than umbrella and flag is eons better than sepsis
limber lion
Niya gives less mastery than umbrella and flag is eons better than sepsis
Yeh but they're both boring
And umbrella is rng
slow marsh
ofc they are
slow marsh
sepsis is dank for 9 seconds inside of shiv
then the proc happens and you remember why NF is poop
slow marsh
I am thinking of the 9 seconds
muted ivy
nothing happens
slow marsh
If NF had a leggo that made sepsis into a 1min cd like flag then i'd go all in on it
slow marsh
yeah
slow marsh
I mean necro will surely break in first day of ptr just like 9.0 right
when people inevitably sbs something then vendetta and press exsang
limber lion
Surely they've changed the SBS code to not interact with Exsang
and not the other way around
slow marsh
cuz no shot it's not bugged to hell
muted ivy
or they could just change necro legendary so it actually does something on st
slow marsh
I have two things on my agenda for when ptr opens up whenver that happens
spice spire
Oh trust me
slow marsh
Get tier 2p changed and somehow find a way to get Deathspike changed or sbs stack or something to that extent
spice spire
I’m checking every angle for NL
slow marsh
Yeah
same
I don't mind being forced necro/venth
Since outlaw/sub can play kyrian
Would be nice to see NF work but I can't see them putting enough effort into rogue to have 3 things changed for us
limber lion
Soulshape is just too good
slow marsh
and the 2p and deathspike things are more important imo
slow marsh
true
limber lion
rawr
limber lion
Nah I'm one of the homies
slow marsh
Door open for return if schedule allows type of things or just not gonna gkick cuz why should we type of htings
k good talk
viscid spear
He's a made man, untouchable
outer cairn
visual prairie
my strategy is to quit until about 2 or 3 months into the tier. Let everyone figure out what works best and then come back. whatever group I trial with will think I'm good because of orange and pink ilvl parses. They won't consider that it's because I'm competing mostly against parses made during progression with less knowledge of what works best. I use that good first impression to solidify my spot on the team before I catch up in gear and they realize I'm just an average player.
sudden canyon
same
spice spire
my strategy is to quit until about 2 or 3 months into the tier. Let everyone fig...
Jokes on you, we found optimization almost 4 months into 9.1
hexed frost
How is a 246 decanter of anima charged winds in M+? I have a 252 anima battery with 246 phial right now.
Dslice is telling me not to change trinkets
spice spire
How is a 246 decanter of anima charged winds in M+? I have a 252 anima battery w...
Listen to the slice
bronze pike
How is a 246 decanter of anima charged winds in M+? I have a 252 anima battery w...
decanter ain’t that great
hexed frost
that haste from battery feels good when paired up with vendetta ngl
muted ivy
tbf dungeons are kinda weird simming
visual prairie
spice spire
Yoinking that, thanks
deft vault
wait our set bonus are trash?
glass tulip
its pinned
2 set: shiv procs dashing scoundrel 2.0
4 set: vendetta basically gains exsang
visual prairie
if the numbers turn out decent, the numbers turn out decent, but i thought they had said something like the set bonuses would have interesting effects on gameplay
which i'm not seeing
glass tulip
So its exsang +poison timer
glass tulip
okay? I dont see how when I said "basically exsang" how that is so wrong
visual prairie
I may not understand how it works, but it just seems like during vendetta you'll have to refresh your bleeds sooner
obtuse robin
u said its almost the same
obtuse robin
the old one does effect posions
glass tulip
Yeah im not concerned I was trying to be helpful and this dude comes flying off the top rope like like yEaH uM Ahckually...
glass tulip
it literally was lol
visual prairie
so if like the last rupture i cast during vendetta snapshots the effect even after vendetta ends then i guess it becomes interesting
gloomy knoll
it porbably won't snapshot
visual prairie
but if it just dynamically affects bleeds while vendetta is up, then it's boring
glass tulip
done here, move on
gloomy knoll
considering it literally reads during vendetta
obtuse robin
if this tame banter gets to ya then things have changed in 1 month
viscid spear
why are y'all arguing over nothing lol
That's what the set is, nothing
obtuse robin
wake up
gloomy knoll
That's what the set is, nothing
<:tinfoil_pepe:699651267517218886>
it's fun at least hopefully it's not too bad numberswise
and if it is we report till buffs
glass tulip
Is the sub set any better on single target than sin though? 2 set maybe but 4 does nothing
obtuse robin
there sis more thought thats for sure
slow marsh
yes
bleak sky
listen to me i've got the tech
gloomy knoll
it's basically entirely dependent on how the shadowstrike interacts with other things
slow marsh
the sin tier set is asscheeks cuz 2p is bad
glass tulip
The way I read it it seems "At up to 5 nearby enemeies" would not include the target
gloomy knoll
like the 2 pc, weapon master, akaaris, gives cp or not, etc
at up to 5 means any number up to 5
slow marsh
up to 5 nearby enemies
gloomy knoll
1 is a number up to 5
slow marsh
includes the 1 fuckin target that you're standing right behind
gloomy knoll
subs tier set is entirely dependent on shadowstrike interactions though
could be nuts as fuck could be meh
won't know till we can test it
bleak sky
9.2 meta is gonna be:
+play CT
+play MFD
+play nigthstalker
+play necro on pull
you MfD rupture garrote bonespike mut ct -> vendetta
VANISH, use tome of the still mind -> swap to venthyr and play as usual
huge
obtuse robin
lmao
gloomy knoll
nice meme tho
obtuse robin
poor necro
glass tulip
necro on pull but what comes after
viscid spear
necro on pull but what comes after<:Toxic:585733851591081984>
Benching, lol
bleak sky
necro on pull but what comes after<:Toxic:585733851591081984>
blizz is gonna listen to this 6Head idea and make it so we can change covenants with a tome
slow marsh
casting flag vendetta a minute later cuz who are you guys kidding we are hard locked into venth unless they rework stuff
bleak sky
instead of going to oribos
visual prairie
vendetta speeds up the dots, but bonespike is infinite, so every time you vendetta, your spike dot gets faster and faster
glass tulip
Min is over here in a tin foil hat
jaunty steeple
necro leggo also sucks donkey balls
slow marsh
yes your spike dot doing 2 damage goes faster wow very pog
visual prairie
yeah, but in the long final fight where we use duskwalkers and get 18 vendettas, at the end bonespike is ticking every -.5 seconds
teal mica
Won't sin have pretty insane execute with Zoldyck?
gloomy knoll
not really
obtuse robin
18 vens
gloomy knoll
i pray to god we don't get 18 vendettas in the final boss
sylv was long enough at 12-14 mins lol
don't need a 20 minute boss
bleak sky
sylv was long enough at 12-14 mins lol
half of it is pointless walking tho
gloomy knoll
i wouldn't say half
slow marsh
i mean the 30 vendettas are def better
gloomy knoll
maybe 1/15th
gusty mirage
i pray to god we don't get 18 vendettas in the final boss
“Didn’t like the 10 min sire? Or 14 minute sylv? Well hold my beer, here’s a 45min jailer fight”
gloomy knoll
“Didn’t like the 10 min sire? Or 14 minute sylv? Well hold my beer, here’s a 45m...
like sylv isn't even that difficult of a fight
early on sure when you had to eek out every bit of damage to beat enrage
gusty mirage
Just too long to allow stupid to happen
viscid spear
“Didn’t like the 10 min sire? Or 14 minute sylv? Well hold my beer, here’s a 45m...
Alterac Valley lite
bleak sky
p2 is boring as fuck
gloomy knoll
p2 is sidestep veil dodge waves
p3 is legit target dummy
spread
target dummy
spread
visual prairie
30 minutes of jailer fight is you just sitting a cell waiting on results of your parole hearing.
gloomy knoll
yawn
gusty mirage
You think I still believe in American auto manufacturers?
gloomy knoll
das gud
viscid spear
Im a target dummy
You forgot a comma
gusty mirage
You forgot a comma
But I’m the dummy
gloomy knoll
you mean an apostrophe
gusty mirage
viscid spear
you mean an apostrophe
You mean apothecary
gloomy knoll
you mean avocado toast
viscid spear
You mean apotheosis
gloomy knoll
good manga
gusty mirage
make sure you get a german made one
Zero shot bro I drive a Volkswagen
Idk if they make any of them in Germany tbh
viscid spear
You mean apotheosis
We HPriests now
visual prairie
they are only 15% in usa accoding to this chart
i don't know where the rest are. but good choice. i think they have the most nazi history
bleak sky
viscid spear
Chart shmart
I can fart in a cart and make a tart heart for Bart
heavy vessel
Idk if they make any of them in Germany tbh
I think the various Golfs are still made in Wolfsburg
clever kindle
“Didn’t like the 10 min sire? Or 14 minute sylv? Well hold my beer, here’s a 45m...
never forget that carapaca and nzoth could have been one single fight
and at one point probably was 
willow eagle
P2 largely useless
Man the difference between hc and mythic sylv is massive.
Mythic doesn't even feel like a 15 min fight
While hc is a slow torture that takes ages
fleet anchor
Man the difference between hc and mythic sylv is massive.
Mythic doesn't even fe...
I disagree. Mythic definitely feels like a 15 minute fight.
Heroic just feels like a 30 minute fight 🤣
gusty mirage
Man the difference between hc and mythic sylv is massive.
Mythic doesn't even fe...
You ever accidentally throw a flag into sylv in p2 when reclearing heroic?
Cuz I have
willow eagle
Idk when I got to p3 I was like "oh we're here"
fleet anchor
Because like
slow marsh
You ever accidentally throw a flag into sylv in p2 when reclearing heroic?
yeah always fam
fleet anchor
When we wipe in P3 because someone accidentally steps on a puddle on the 3rd platform. I definitely feel like it's a 15 minute fight. 🤣
willow eagle
You ever accidentally throw a flag into sylv in p2 when reclearing heroic?
I throw echoing reprimands at sylv 😎
gusty mirage
When we wipe in P3 because someone accidentally steps on a puddle on the 3rd pla...
Ye the fifteen minutes is just full pain
While heroic you fall asleep
Wake up thinking it’s 2033
willow eagle
Hc sylv on a pug is one of the worst feelings especially when you wipe p3
fleet anchor
When someone accidentally moved with the last Death Knives and clipped the whole raid
willow eagle
I hope I can get a dagger and not do that boss in 9.2
limber lion
What kind of scuffed ass groups are you doing HC on?
fleet anchor
We killed it on the next pull thankfully, but yeah lol
I think Sylv still feels way too long
limber lion
Join a boosting community and get your weeklies done by boosting
You'll never wipe again
willow eagle
Yeah that's what I do now
limber lion
Good.
fleet anchor
But Heroic is even fucking longer because P2 has you zig-zagging across all the platforms for no fucking reason at all?
It's so odd
willow eagle
I boost with guild so it's really nice
fleet anchor
I never understood Heroic P2
willow eagle
But for like 2 months I went into the wilderness of pugs
fleet anchor
Like you should just go down one side
limber lion
RP reasons
fleet anchor
0% understand why P2 is more painful on Heroic
limber lion
Fill the space
fleet anchor
Also
limber lion
Grande
fleet anchor
P1 is legit harder in Heroic than Mythic
viscid spear
What happens differently in P2 Mythic?
oak sky
P3 is the only part thats always good
willow eagle
What happens differently in P2 Mythic?
<:monkaS:585734084014374922>
2 bridges
fleet anchor
In Mythic you split and go both sides at the same time
limber lion
What happens differently in P2 Mythic?
<:monkaS:585734084014374922>
What doesn't?
fleet anchor
In Heroic they decided "that's too hard for Heroic groups" and make it one side
But still have you go to every platform
So it takes longer
fleet anchor
as you zig-zag around
gusty mirage
Colossus is actually toxic
willow eagle
The randomness of their spawns is obnoxious
gusty mirage
Change my mind
fleet anchor
Arrows in Heroic are like.. so much fucking worse than Mythic it's hilarious
Mythic arrows are like "Nice AoE pad"
fleet anchor
Heroic is like "wtf clusterfuck"
limber lion
But the heroic arrows don't do any damage
fleet anchor
I mean NOW they don't
limber lion
Nor do they explode if someone steps in one
gusty mirage
They just kill the one person
fleet anchor
At launch I do think they were legit harder than Mythic
gusty mirage
And you can laugh at them
fleet anchor
I mean sure, they kill one person
spice spire
But the heroic arrows don't do any damage
Oh buddy you’ve never raided with heroic people
limber lion
spice spire
50 pulls in we had a holy priest go “oh I’m not running to the circle around the arrow”
round swift
So based off the datamined set bonus, do you think they are going to rework exsanguinate?
spice spire
willow eagle
Elitist snob cev does not know the pug pain😤
limber lion
I still don't understand what 6/10 HC groups 210ilvl groups ya'll running hc with
fleet anchor
Heroic honestly was ridiculous at launch, it's just funny
limber lion
Launch was insane
fleet anchor
I mean now it should be fairly easy
limber lion
I'll give you that
spice spire
Now it’s literally free
gusty mirage
when your joke emote gets used in RH regularly
oak sky
:oxiPain:
limber lion
So it was definitely a bit over the top
willow eagle
Hc sylv pugs like 2 months into the tier were many 9/10 ppl expecting to be carried
willow eagle
But the true pain is lfr sylv
gusty mirage
Yes lol
willow eagle
Where ppl refuse to learn 😔
limber lion
Ty
gusty mirage
Imagine being a godtier gamer with godtier looks
oak sky
Dont have to
gusty mirage
oak sky
gusty mirage
@limber lion pls don’t let night fae be good
viscid spear
How's the boss encounters looking? Melee being alright?
gusty mirage
I beg of you
viscid spear
My guild's entire top line of dps is melee 
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> pls don’t let night fae be good
If you wanna stick to Venthyr MFD then all the power to ya
But I'm dipping
oak sky
wet dagger
duskwalker's patch gonna be good with the 4 set you guys think?
viscid spear
But I'm dipping
wet dagger
also possibly CT overtake poison bomb ST?
wet dagger
it's not that bad
limber lion
It is
I mean PB is better and completely passive
No reason to play CT in single unless CT pulls ahead a fair bit
wet dagger
well if you look at some fights with intermittent cleave that would sometimes be a hard decision what to go with, it's a boost in CT's favor I think
arctic hare
I just realized
arctic hare
Shivs’s debuff causes crit for bleeds, does that count for All bleeds?
limber lion
Fine I’ll come soul shape with you, but I won’t like it
I'll probably have to hop back to Venth when my dreams get crushed
gusty mirage
Sepsis is so bad though 
limber lion
Shivs’s debuff causes crit for bleeds, does that count for All bleeds?
Probably