if hes starving during vendetta
#assassination
marble hemlock
dawn ivy
im talkin opener
muted ivy
apparently hPal is bonkers
dawn ivy
people are all just scared that, because their set isnt "all damage done increased by 1000%", means they MIGHT not be the best.
oh is WW not looking good?
it didnt sound bad
subtle tundra
i just want assa aoeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
strange python
and not sub or another class
subtle tundra
i played sub i really tried but its just so boring and it feels so omega bad on 2-3 targets
oak sky
true
strange python
if either is somehow giga tuned I will I gusss but
oak sky
2-3 is easy to fix tho
strange python
guess*
oak sky
just have your tank not pull 2-3
doesnt work for me because im a pugger, but i also dont play sub
slow marsh
sin feels better in pugs than it does in premades
muted ivy
still kinda boring on mega pull cuz u just press 2 buttons and then dance whenever u can
oak sky
sub is cds-> spam
slow marsh
i'll take boring 2 button 25k pulls over the frenzy that is sin tab target rupturing everything
just to compete
muted ivy
that's fair lol
subtle tundra
i'll take boring 2 button 25k pulls over the frenzy that is sin tab target ruptu...
atleast i play the game
muted ivy
i just want sectec to be good so that there's like SOMETHING different to do
slow marsh
atleast i play the game
hey same lol
just always cracks me up when people complain that x is boring when boring x is usually doing mega dam
such as eyebeam spam DH
sub
WW
subtle tundra
ww is only boring during the 10 seconds you actually do the dmg
subtle tundra
the setup is good, the rest is good
slow marsh
yeah
marble hemlock
when you dont have IV/orb
frostmage feels like a spec
when you do
its just button mashing
same button. 20 times.
subtle tundra
i like glacial spike, too bad its not good 😦
slow marsh
we
cerulean nest
we feeling depressed or we feeling okay? lol
oak sky
okay, its just a passive
slow marsh
i think at first kinda depressed but now it's fine
oak sky
doesnt really change anything probably
slow marsh
after exploring some other classes they mostly feel the same way
everyone else's tier bonus looks cooler than theirs
dawn ivy
sin just depends on double leggo sims, and sub depends on finding out the functionality of the sets
muted ivy
feels close to being something cool
oak sky
i mean thats good
slow marsh
We still have to see what this catalyst will do
tidal gorge
I'm just happy to get some class flavor back instead of world of generic-craft
oak sky
yeah i think its nice
slow marsh
just dpeends on if the SS procs generate cp right?
oak sky
all specs and classes
strange python
just dpeends on if the SS procs generate cp right?
maybe but even then, it loses like 3-4% from bad legendaries
oak sky
not just rogue
kind talon
They are very disproportionate and many are proc based
slow marsh
im happy it seems like we got decent tier sets across the board
in all fairness i said several times that i expected lazy rehashes, and these are not that so kudos for creativity
kind talon
The fire mage one
oak sky
a lot of them play off themselves which seems like interesting design to me
kind talon
Is so fucking stupid
slow marsh
like hunter ones (except surv)
I saw MM hunters crying about how theirs is crap unless there is a lot of cleave
dawn ivy
the mm set looks fucking nuts
dawn ivy
they dont even really need to use multi shot to proc trick shots now
oak sky
exactly
muted ivy
just dpeends on if the SS procs generate cp right?
this, but also if those SS can proc akaari
oak sky
its gonna make them feel different
slow marsh
this, but also if those SS can proc akaari
I think even if the bonus SS proc akaari it still wouldn't get played
kind talon
this, but also if those SS can proc akaari
Chance for insane high rolling shenanigans with sub if shit can proc off of akaari
kind talon
I think even if the bonus SS proc akaari it still wouldn't get played
Yes it would
oak sky
akaari is their best st leggo non cov or at least it was
slow marsh
I know it was in 9.0, did it stay that way ?
marble hemlock
I saw MM hunters crying about how theirs is crap unless there is a lot of cleave
oh, im not saying its good
slow marsh
Thought even in 9.0 they used finality
kind talon
Nah
marble hemlock
im just saying that it seems to use existing mechanics to trigger smth, reliably
vs
kind talon
They are pretty close
marble hemlock
"get 20% chance to get recklessness"
slow marsh
true there are a lot of reset things
kind talon
"get 20% chance to get recklessness"
This is insane btw
marble hemlock
at least the sin ones arent proc based or other shit
slow marsh
damn i mean imagine if we had a proc to reset shiv
marble hemlock
then again the class doesnt have many knobs to tune or turn
slow marsh
that'd be sick
oak sky
i would be fine with procs kinda
slow marsh
na shiv
oak sky
they change the feel
marble hemlock
nah itd be more like
slow marsh
imo shiv would be the one to proc reset on
oak sky
and its only for 1 tier
muted ivy
depends on what the proc is lol
marble hemlock
envenom has a 20% chance to extend your shiv duration by 2seconds
or some other dumb shit
slow marsh
or that too
bleak sky
holy shit daggers look SICK
slow marsh
was just thinking with the x proc reset x, envenom to reset shiv would be pogger
bleak sky
gimme red celestial daggies
dawn ivy
sin could very easily build off of shiv
static rock
Hello, I was wondering if someone can look at this and tell me some mistakes I’m making?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jzwPByZbt7pfX46g#fight=1&type=damage-done
dawn ivy
extending the duration/shortening the cd/making the damage window proc something in the end of it
slow marsh
it would actually be nice for our 4p
instead of dollar store exsang
synergy with the 2p
someone tweet someone and have them change it
4p should be a proc to reset shiv cd
oak sky
that would be nice and different ngl
slow marsh
i'm telling you
oak sky
even if it would be less damage
slow marsh
it would make sinners happy and give us something more interesting than a bad talent slapped on a 4p
slow marsh
it's bare bones but our spec revolves around it
oak sky
toxic blade
dawn ivy
even tiny toxic blade is such a cop out
"increased dam and free" is the laziest thing you can add to an ability
dawn ivy
im sure that will have accurate information 
hollow river
they literally said they wanted tier sets to change our gameplay
obtuse robin
i thought drat was genrally accepted as good
hollow river
in the 9.2 video
obtuse robin
nah?
hollow river
i mean drat is ok
clever kindle
I can envision an exsanguinate spec that goes off
hollow river
i take everyone's info and opinions with a grain of salt
clever kindle
with 2x faster dot ticks
slow marsh
i almost can
obtuse robin
by that logic so is max
slow marsh
but then i remember how bad exsang is
obtuse robin
and he is great
static rock
do we run ct on fatescribe?
dawn ivy
reactions and first impressions is translated to "Im trying to drum up views without actually having tangible evidence to back up my theories"
but hes still good
slow marsh
do we run ct on fatescribe?
if you don't have a ww yeah
hollow river
I can envision an exsanguinate spec that goes off
if they give us some rework during PTR
dawn ivy
im sure he was able to quickly grab a few people from each class to say "set good. set bad"
slow marsh
the content creators are not theorycrafters by any means, and they are drawing up knee jerk takes for content
static rock
we have a kyrian ww
slow marsh
they get fed most all their information about what's good and bad
Max included
they are just good at processing it and turning it into something workable
dawn ivy
Max is pretty rational though
obtuse robin
yea and thats wat drat does
dawn ivy
hell have first impressions but he normally doesnt say anything drastic
obtuse robin
he is a reliable source
fleet anchor
instead of dollar store exsang
Not sure I'd call it dollar store exsang. This is unironically much stronger than exsang.
fleet anchor
Not possible yet
slow marsh
can you at least override sim for 2 leggo?
cerulean nest
can't wait for the sim nerds to get in there
so I can follow their word blindly and live happily
strange python
Not sure I'd call it dollar store exsang. This is unironically much stronger tha...
how tho?
what makes it much stronger its not that different
slow marsh
dusk is only -200 behind obed currently without dom set so i'm really interested to see how they stack up together
fleet anchor
what makes it much stronger its not that different
Because exsang actually doesn't do anything, and this does a lot 😛
strange python
ye I guess, I mean alacrity op but
how much gain is exsang over no talent on that row?
fleet anchor
4 set gives the Exsang tick rate during the full Vendetta window which is where it actually mattered the most. And applies it to Deadly Poison ticks.
The 25% Crit on Bleeds with like 40% uptime is...big lol
dawn ivy
does it?
twilit hollow
theotar triple potency with lethal poisons possibly?
slow marsh
we already do that
dawn ivy
oh you mean 4p effects poisons
slow marsh
yeah the 4p affects deadly whereas exsang is only bleeds
obtuse robin
so koj saying both sets are good
fleet anchor
I mean the 2pc is a flat ~10% buff to Bleeds
coarse vault
does Shiv's debuff continually proc the "9 seconds" until Shiv expires, or is it just at the start of Shiv?
dawn ivy
also isnt this 4p twice the duration as our notmal exsang talent
slow marsh
idk if they are "good" as much as they are not as bad as they seem
dawn ivy
does Shiv's debuff continually proc the "9 seconds" until Shiv expires, or is it...
itll be start of shiv
slow marsh
if we can use dusk like i predicted i think it gets into good territory
strange python
2.5 I think
slow marsh
2.5
strange python
not 1
fleet anchor
I mean it's hard to guesstimate with current gear because Frost set
slow marsh
yeah
coarse vault
its definitely decent for pvp tho!
slow marsh
the crit is actually going to be nice cuz we won't omega stack it next tier
oak sky
hard to know
muted ivy
feels dumb that 2pc only does bleeds when 4pc does both
slow marsh
shiv already increases poison dam
oak sky
^
strange python
build a bis gear set for no frost set and then try to sim for it? I guess?
muted ivy
I'm 
i know
fleet anchor
Will need to see the spell data whitelists
Also this is the type of thing that might need some additional optimizations or setup, so who knows
slow marsh
true though idk if it'd be better than dusk still
fleet anchor
I mean it's potentially a little more interesting than the Sub one which is like pretty much as boring as you'd expect from Sub design
"when you Shadowstrike your Shadowstrikes Shadowstrike for more damage and also have a chance to Shadowstrike more targets for more Shadowstrike damage. Shadow. Strike."
slow marsh
ikr
fleet anchor
Literally zero rotational impact at all lol
slow marsh
and that's the one everyone saying looks the most fun xD
junior rampart
Hi All, So Dom shards are no longer useful in 9.2?
slow marsh
and by everyone i mean non rogue players
fleet anchor
How is it fun? It's 100% passive haha
marble hemlock
I mean the 2pc is a flat ~10% buff to Bleeds
which sounds nice until you realize how much damage your bleeds do during shiv 
strange python
Hi All, So Dom shards are no longer useful in 9.2?
no
somber hill
exsang synergy in?
storm forum
the Dom sets won't work but we might keep a couple dom pieces to use the purple and red dom gems if they aren't deactivated
slow marsh
we didn't know frost + dashing was a thing till i pulled that string so anything is certainly possible
slow marsh
the Dom sets won't work but we might keep a couple dom pieces to use the purple ...
yeah this is a big question mark. I think it'd be better if they completely turn them off for next raid prog
dawn ivy
100%
strange python
BIG doubt they let them work
muted ivy
just remove them from my inventory plz
dawn ivy
they need to just deactivate them even in their base solo form
^
i wouldnt even be mad if they just removed the itesm from my gear and bags, as long as they took away stygian embers as a currency too
slow marsh
that's what i mean
just forgetting they existed would be for the best
as good as it was for us
dawn ivy
it might not have changed rotationally, but it normally effected how you THOUGHT of your spec
obtuse robin
its an expectation cuz they said it themselfs in the 9.2 video
muted ivy
its an expectation cuz they said it themselfs in the 9.2 video
trusting something blizzard says 
storm forum
Our 2 set is kind of boring but the 4 set is interesting enough to have met my expectations. Rotationally it doesn't seem to do much but it makes me want to test out or at least look at sims of different builds (duskwalkers, exang, whatever else people smarter than me can come up with)
dawn ivy
exsang 4p sounds awful honestly
garrote literally wouldnt come off cd before it dropped
it barely lasts before it comes off cd if you run subterfuge and double garrote rupture exsang to get the pandemic
fleet anchor
exsang synergy in?
No real synergy unless there is some bugged interaction tbh
Alacrity has more synergy 😛
marble hemlock
wdym koji
fleet anchor
garrote literally wouldnt come off cd before it dropped
I mean could just end up going Subterfuge, it's already quite close iirc without frost set
marble hemlock
are you not hyped for the kyrian 7cp nightstalker DS rupture vendetta+exsang snapshot with stacked haste+IQD?
dawn ivy
yeah it would be the only way it would work
dawn ivy
are you not hyped for the kyrian 7cp nightstalker DS rupture vendetta+exsang sna...
you stop that
obtuse robin
dawn ivy
you might be a community figure but even you have limits before you must be stopped for the good of all rogues
fleet anchor
Problem with the exsang design is that I'll get a million questions about why the APL is set up in a certain way and most people have zero understanding of what Exsang-like effects actually do from a practical perspective
marble hemlock
id be surprised if they coded the 4set in a different way
theyll just copypaste exsang code onto vendetta on cast
fleet anchor
The general principle behind Exsang is:
a) It is not a damage amp, can't think of it as a damage amp. At the end of the day your buffed DoTs do the same damage. All this gives you is more unbuffed ticks as long as your damage amp bleeds fit in CDs (they always do)
b) Haste snapshotting is most of the reason it's good, which extended stuff like Galecallers to double the effective length
c) You can think of it as giving you more unbuffed DoT ticks at the end of the fight. That's mostly all it does outside of snapshot abuse
marble hemlock
yeah, thats the main issue with exsang, the fact that it doesnt actually give you additional ticks or amps the ticks from the already amped bleeds youre applying, but its simply a few additional unbuffed ticks
only reason it was playable in bfa was shrouded+bote+insane haste levels we will never be able to reach in SL
fleet anchor
It will be interesting to see if they do this with the same Exsang code 🍝 or something else
marble hemlock
well, my expectation is this
fleet anchor
Because if they reuse the same code as Exsang it could actually be highly problematic
marble hemlock
youll basically exsang on vendetta-use, and any bleeds/poisons reapplied during vendetta uptime will also benefit from this
fleet anchor
For example, Exsang snapshots haste but we'll be using it with Alacrity which won't be fully stacked when we cast Vendetta so that could potentially be bad
dawn ivy
so what you fear is we can reapply rupture/garrote right at the end of vendetta?
marble hemlock
so youll be snapshotting vendetta-hasted bleeds at the end of vendetta
fleet anchor
I also don't know how it's going to apply when we re-apply DoTs
My guess is they are going to do this some "other" way that isn't quite the same as Exsang
storm forum
it gives you some more energy from venomous wounds too but idk how relevant that is. At the end of BFA we already had so much haste I don't remember it really mattering.
marble hemlock
ideally they re-use the global speed modifier we had in elissande bubbles
which didnt change the duration of the debuffs itself, but just made them tick faster
which is much more value than what exsang did
while i do think that improving our DoTs is a good idea, im not happy with it happening at a point in time where out DoTs make up maybe 20% of our overall damage output
fleet anchor
Yeah I mean who knows when we shift back over to Haste setup and more traditional gear but it's hard to say
marble hemlock
especially since both are tied to st-only CDs, one of them supposedly being a utility CD
fleet anchor
But yeah I do agree there
wild beacon
do i need to get a haste set together now RIP crit/frost/dashing
marble hemlock
the only covenant that i feel benefits from the raid set bonus in a meaningful capacity, would be necro, and it has a 0dps st covenant legendary, so theres that
marble hemlock
doubtful
slow marsh
i mean i wouldn't say you NEED to
marble hemlock
we will most likely continue playing venthyr, and i dont think venthyr assa with, say, dusk+obe, wants to stack a lot of haste
slow marsh
but you can sim it right now just turn off your dom shards
you can't sim the combo of everything obviously but you can get an idea of post dom shard itemization kinda
fleet anchor
the only covenant that i feel benefits from the raid set bonus in a meaningful c...
Yeah this is really difficult to see Necro being good unless they redesign the leggo
marble hemlock
as i said earlier, deathspike should allow sbs to stack to up to 3 times or smth similar like that
dawn ivy
i would nut if they did that to deathspike holy shit imagine
slow marsh
yeah it's sadge how this actually low key punishes necro even further
dawn ivy
or maybe make the first application perma, but any application past that, turn it into a short bleed
slow marsh
well you can't really make it an ignite effect cuz it'd be too strong
hollow river
as i said earlier, deathspike should allow sbs to stack to up to 3 times or smth...
i was saying something similar to this earlier as well
dawn ivy
it sucks because 5 charges of SBS sounds kinda cool in gemstones
hollow river
bleed damage should stack
dawn ivy
it sounds like it would actually be good in ST
hollow river
and deathspike, for every stack, your next SBS initial hit does more damage
add multipliers to it so it's good in ST
very easy
dawn ivy
or even just make the sbs always shoot out the extra spike at the main target if theres no adds
clever kindle
Fatescribe down 
dawn ivy
Fatescribe down <:EZ:433692491007524864> <a:Clap:410248836057923585>
gz! go grab a quick guardian kill too
should only take an hour or so
clever kindle
ty 
dawn ivy
only good thing about guardian was the mental buffer between painsmith and fatescribe, replenished everyones morale
but shit going fatescribe to kt is giga mental drain
clever kindle
we had like 4 1% wipes on fatescribe from about 30 wipes onwards so
finished with about 50 wipes or so
slow marsh
lucky
hollow river
Fatescribe down <:EZ:433692491007524864> <a:Clap:410248836057923585>
is there another rogue in your raid
my buddy killed it tonight as well i think
dawn ivy
any of the big brainers already know when to hold shiv for vendetta when youre running dusk?
dawn ivy
im 10/10 mythic and i hate pvp
subtle tundra
go ahead, implement the tier sets into raidbots and change the apl for it yourself!
dawn ivy
what else am i supposed to do
subtle tundra
IM TRYING
dawn ivy
i got all i wanted from m+
hollow river
i know i know
subtle tundra
just...not good enough
dawn ivy
all i can do is run in circles
slow marsh
any of the big brainers already know when to hold shiv for vendetta when youre r...
It's within 10 seconds so you'd just speed that up like 2 seconds ish
subtle tundra
ill strim when i play with people more than 1 key, i've pugged this week kek
slow marsh
You wouldn't delay shiv or vendetta tho you would hold vanish for the shiv if anything
hollow river
well i just meant for future
subtle tundra
actually timed 2 x26 today
subtle tundra
also, fking hate when necrotic dagger isnt the first power
the difference in boss dps is yuge
hollow river
oh, different guy
clever kindle
grats to him as well
void carbon
What is a good Lego for m+ outside venthyr one
slow marsh
zold
void carbon
I’ll have and would it be good in torghast
slow marsh
sure
celest sail
if i have to soak oblits, there's no way to live the second right?
other than cloak
hate shit that kills me through cheat
celest sail
we dont have enough immunes so i have to soak two oblits in the same soak
feint the first one, but the second one hits for like 2.5m and kills through cheat
cinder cape
Yea rip
hybrid vector
beg for a spellwarding
muted ivy
oh shit ya i was remembering wrong lol
toxic quail
unless im misunderstanding, if you cloak last second you are able to soak both obilts
celest sail
yea, that only works for one of the sets
toxic quail
no need for feint or cheat
oak sky
yes
cinder cape
Yea spellward works
oak sky
2 and 4
celest sail
yea, mine are back to back because paladins have to do 1/4
and only one mage can do two, other mage is fire
toxic quail
damn, unlucky comps
cinder cape
Isn't prot only spec with spellward
muted ivy
yee
celest sail
extra unlucky since muti pumps here lol
void carbon
Should i run Theotar for M+ or Nadjia
scarlet warren
i kinda of dig it
cerulean nest
the blank face mask makes it
scarlet warren
thematically its really well done imo
with the shoulders and the blank face mask you mentioned it comes together pretty nice imo
hollow river
yea, mine are back to back because paladins have to do 1/4
Don’t think can do back to back
muted ivy
chest feels meh
hollow river
Idk tbh it seems like they’re trying to make some good stuff
I don’t like the dagger appearances at all
But the 1h swords are sick
hollow river
even in raid
hollow river
Gonna be a busy week in here
slow marsh
Meh should be fine
Ptr stuff isn't necessarily as bad as it seems in my experience so far
Just because there's always the caveat that things are subject to change and mostly likely will change
obtuse robin
ice tryna teach the theo tech for like 7 months now
god bless
i remember when i gave in to him
havent looked back sinse
timid cloud
misty holly
Wonder if set bonuses will work on Bonespike.
And if that will be enough to make it viable compared to obedience =/
slow marsh
Big doubt. Sbs needs a rework before it'd even be viable atm
misty holly
I think it is viable right now.. but covenant legendary throws that out
Obedience is so much better than all the other for sin.
Hard to imagine playing anything else
charred wraith
Big doubt. Sbs needs a rework before it'd even be viable atm
deathspike*
sbs is perfect dont touch my boy
misty holly
My dream is SBS becomes a talent next expansion. I love it so much.
dawn ivy
i can see that honestly
imagine they just put that in place of alacrity but make bone spike give energy
slow marsh
I think it is viable right now.. but covenant legendary throws that out
That's what I mean. Viable now as in now looking towards 9.2
solid venture
Assa tier set, pog or omegalul?
dawn ivy
somewhere in between
slow marsh
Okay
dawn ivy
still need to see numbers
slow marsh
It's not flashy but it'll be solid tbh
slow marsh
Our bleeds are meh so hopefully something changes that but the 4p affects deadly which is our 3rd highest dam and we will have 1min vendetta so ~ 30-40 % uptime on big coolies
Subt will probably be the play yeah.
It's super close already without dom set
dawn ivy
i doubt it will even be the best burst sin can do, but subterfuge with 2/4p and exsanguinate
sounds like some kinda nutty burst
slow marsh
I really doubt we go exsang unless they buff our bleeds with something
gloomy knoll
I wonder if this makes dusk good
dawn ivy
but even if it was our best possible short time burst, it would be so utterly niche it would never be good
gloomy knoll
1 min flag 1 min vendetta would be pog
slow marsh
Dusk was already the play imo been saying it since double leggo news dropped
dawn ivy
exsang will not see the light of day in any normal content
yeah im just sorta expecting it to be dusk/obe
gloomy knoll
Unless you get a mechanic during cds then your timers are fucked for the rest of the pull
slow marsh
If we can get flag and vend down to 45s by some miracle then maybe exsang gets played
dawn ivy
no shot ahhaahhaaha
slow marsh
But as of now it's looking like 1min guaranteed and maybe 50-55 depending
gloomy knoll
No chance exsang sees play
It’s beyond trash
Without shrouded suffocation it’s staying in the trash
And that’s on gang
dawn ivy
yeah exsang wont be meta in any content, but i seriously want to see the brust it could bring
slow marsh
I think exsang + 4p will make our bleeds run out faster than we could use them and they don't do enough damage to justify it
gloomy knoll
Nope
dawn ivy
@slow marsh need to take subterfuge
gloomy knoll
Even with 100% haste exsang is still trash
slow marsh
Even with subt rup is still only 7% of our dam
gloomy knoll
Nothing will make that talent good except for a massive buff to our bleeds like shrouded
slow marsh
With 200% haste exsang isn't good
dawn ivy
stuffing 20 seconds of an empowered garrote into 4 seconds into vanishing and getting another 4 seconds of insane garrote
slow marsh
The reason the 4p is actually decent is cuz it affects deadly
Sure that'd be nice for 8 seconds
dawn ivy
it wont be BiS for overall but for a niche burst situation
slow marsh
Without shrouded it doesn't do enough to make up the ground in between vanishes
dawn ivy
yeh
ebon thorn
wonder if zoldyck will be decent for prog with 4 piece set 🤔
slow marsh
Of exsang affected all bleeds instead of one target it'd be cool to play in m+
dawn ivy
yeah if execute is needed, we will be kinda nuts
slow marsh
And solve a lot of issues with sin m+
balmy condor
wonder if zoldyck will be decent for prog with 4 piece set 🤔
depends on if the fights have any meaningful execute
wanton path
dashing or DB with venth lego what do peeps reckon
dawn ivy
this tier didnt NEED execute anywhere
slow marsh
Doubt zold gets play tbh
dawn ivy
you could argue painsmith MAYBE
balmy condor
dashing or DB with venth lego what do peeps reckon
no idea, could be dusk for all we know
slow marsh
Execute isn't as strong as cutting vendetta CD in half
wanton path
dashing synergises with 4p a bit but not 2p right
dawn ivy
sure for overall
slow marsh
I've been saying for two weeks it's dusk obed
dawn ivy
but for execute
nothing is gonna beat assassination damage in execute
zoldyck with 4p
thats fucking nuts
dawn ivy
jesus
slow marsh
We said that for sire and doomblade was still better
gloomy knoll
I mean if you never cast envenom with dusk and ob
gloomy knoll
Maybe stonks for mastery dusk build
slow marsh
Naaaa still crit haste for sure
balmy condor
tier set would have to be good in order to actually make us want to bleed CT mastery stack
slow marsh
But there's gonna be some weirdos who try NF mastery
gloomy knoll
That’d be a neat sin iteration though
balmy condor
we haven't had mastery stack since 7.3
slow marsh
We had a tier away from haste stacking. I'm a ok going back to it
gloomy knoll
0 damage outside of cds big mastery dam every 1 min
gloomy knoll
Though I guess dusk has crit haste synergy anyways
slow marsh
EP/DS haste stacking
balmy condor
DS sounds pretty goo
gloomy knoll
Yea I could see this helping ds
gloomy knoll
Lmao
dawn ivy
idk ive been fuckin with ptr
slow marsh
Who needs energy with 33% uptime on vend
balmy condor
you need the max to not overcap when vendetta gives you 500 energy in 5 seconds
balmy condor
already drowning in energy with vend normally
and now they're like oh yeah free exsang
slow marsh
But I want ep ds
gloomy knoll
Iuno I think it’s fun it just needs a buff
balmy condor
bruh
slow marsh
If rup did damage then DS would be nice
balmy condor
stop trying to make exsang a thing
ebon thorn
balmy condor
I don't even see it being played in pvp honestly
slow marsh
Make exsang affect poison and bleed like 4p and maybe
slow marsh
Hard maybe
ebon thorn
what if..... Master poisoner, Subterfurge, deeper, exsanguinate, ct, bloodfang and obedience 
slow marsh
Also whisp I hope you're ready to combat the cydone MP build
balmy condor
I'm gonna really hate this discord for the next month aren't I
ebon thorn
yes
glass tulip
YEP
balmy condor
they'll break you down eventually
obtuse robin
ice has failed for 8 months to push theo pick your allies wisely
slow marsh
I mean
balmy condor
because you know I'm an active listener before I shit on you
90% of this discord is like talking to a brick wall
drowsy parcel
slow marsh
Honestly draven is the most tilting thing to me
ebon thorn
heard tiny toxic blade is what the cool kids use 
balmy condor
the cycle of life:
- change occurs
- feelcrafters feelcraft, theorycrafters go "idk maybe? why don't we just wait"
- they don't wait.
- sims come out
- "well this has been better for me in my testing sims are wrong"
- sims are not wrong
- "but they are"
- waste time showing that sims aren't wrong
- fade to irrelevancy
- repeat
fleet whale
I know i'm a little late from this but first impression, not impressed by sin's set bonuses
2 piece is ok, 4 piece is just weird
balmy condor
sin set bonus is indeed pretty bad
slow marsh
Sin is benefitting more from double leggo than tier set for sure
ebon thorn
!tea
fleet whale
sub set bonuses seem a lot better
slow marsh
Sub bonuses seem better if you don't play sub
gloomy knoll
They seem fine to me
fleet whale
outlaw looks decent too
slow marsh
Lot of hopium there right now
muted ivy
They’re fine just kinda boring
gloomy knoll
Depends on interactions though
balmy condor
to sim the tea
ye
fleet whale
i'm just comparing first impressions of the set bonuses btw
bronze pike
Ya outlaw and sub tier sets are fine
fleet whale
not making any comments on what's gonna be good or not
bronze pike
For their own reasons
gloomy knoll
Outlaws is cringe
slow marsh
Yeee
ebon thorn
i mean
gloomy knoll
But prob plays ok
slow marsh
Outlaw should be happy
ebon thorn
seems abit weak?
fleet whale
i just don't find the sin set bonuses to be that good or interesting
muted ivy
not making any comments on what's gonna be good or not
Nope your take has been recorded forever now
bronze pike
But I’m curious what makes sin worrying? I think they look decent
slow marsh
Could be worse
balmy condor
But I’m curious what makes sin worrying? I think they look decent
bleeds do 0 damage, so buffing them makes for 0 damage
bronze pike
Oh
gloomy knoll
Master poisoner
fleet whale
plus 4 set is still weird, poisons expire 100% faster when you use vendetta like wat
balmy condor
like the shiv one on paper sounds neat, but then you realize that it's 25% crit to 15% of your damage, 40% of the time
and you're like
ehhhhhhhhhhh..........
slow marsh
Cuz cto also only getting better which means good buffs higher uptime and outlaw is just dumb I hate it
fleet whale
poisons reapply constantly
bronze pike
It’s just frost wave ptr and we’re def not seeing 9.2 till next year
slow marsh
like the shiv one on paper sounds neat, but then you realize that it's 25% crit ...
I'm praying for ptr feedback on 2p tbh
Gonna actually get in ptr this go around to help with it
gloomy knoll
The 2 pc does seem kinda weak
fleet whale
it's just when i saw the initial antorus sin set bonuses the excitement was there
bronze pike
I’ll help y’all with the reports in ptr :) every voice helps
fleet whale
the idea for that set was really good
gloomy knoll
Would be nice if the 2 pc was just more crit in general
gloomy knoll
Then you’d get more cp more envenom dam then refresh bleeds after shiv
obtuse robin
so i see ppl say the set looks weak but then koji says the set is big
balmy condor
nah 2 set could be 100% bleed crit and it would weak
slow marsh
The 4p is bigger than people think
gloomy knoll
I mean just shiv increases your crit by 25%
balmy condor
slow marsh
Because people are too focused on exsang
gloomy knoll
Not just bleeds
slow marsh
And ignore the poison part
balmy condor
And ignore the poison part
what's that supposed to do
fleet whale
dp dot is not 16% of our damage
ebon thorn
haha guys
slow marsh
But then combine that with 33% uptime
ebon thorn
imagine if they disable set bonus outside of new zone/raid hehe
gloomy knoll
Most of the poison damage is from the application not the dot fam
The application isn’t buffed
With the tier set
slow marsh
True well with that being said maybe they fix our poison application bugs too
fleet whale
blizz always tries to make exsang stronger for one patch in an expansion
this tier set is SL's attempt at that
obtuse robin
but its not exsa
slow marsh
Yeah and they'll see in ptr in the first hour that exsang is still trash and to give it up already
balmy condor
this is the first 30 seconds, during lust. poison dot, rupture, and garrote COMBINED are 14.3% of the damage
slow marsh
Thabks
ebon thorn
sad
fleet whale
yeah i think this points out what I think may be the biggest problem of this iteration of the tier set
you only get to benefit from it on certain windows
balmy condor
the problem is the spec isn't dot centric and the tier set is
slow marsh
The biggest problem is just the 2p imo. The 4p is underwhelming and I think it should've been a chance to reset CD on shiv but it is what it is
balmy condor
that's literally it
slow marsh
People have cried for exsang since 9.0 started and now they gave it so we have to deal with it I guess
fleet whale
it's dot centric in theory
ebon thorn
guys they will make balance changes 
fleet whale
but it's not in practice
balmy condor
the tier set is something that would've fit the spec 7 years ago
but the spec hasn't been what the tier set wants it to be
slow marsh
Buff rup plz
ebon thorn
Does tea cd reset when u swap covenants
balmy condor
no
ebon thorn
fuck
fleet whale
adding bleeds to mastery fu*ked bleeds for assassin
ebon thorn
wanna get crit then logout til sunday 
balmy condor
adding bleeds to mastery fu*ked bleeds for assassin
it fucked a lot of things
but idk what they were thinking tbh
slow marsh
They were thinking
fleet whale
cause it sounds better on paper
slow marsh
Nobody plays rogue who fucking cares
fleet whale
blizz literally just makes changes that sound good on paper
balmy condor
sin in legion was very not dot focused, and then they were like "we gotta change mastery to include bleeds for the dot fantasy" and then made it trash, and we haven't wanted mastery since
fleet whale
blizz thinks that since sin maintains rupture and garrote
that it's a bleed spec lol
slow marsh
This is why we need better representation in the community tho tbh
fleet whale
are there any real dot specs anymore, i remember one time all the "dot" specs had all their damage come from things that weren't dots
slow marsh
Warriors get to tweet stuff and have it changed the next week
gloomy knoll
aff was a dot spec
slow marsh
We hide in the corner and complain
nimble tartan
nobody is bastioning rogue on twitter
gloomy knoll
which is not a dot
nimble tartan
we have no presence
ebon thorn
jpc is our last defender
gloomy knoll
we just got jpc
ebon thorn
balmy condor
jpc is bastioning rogue on twitter sometimes
ebon thorn
@sand sigil love u man
balmy condor
maybe I make a twitter
gloomy knoll
he mostly does M+ tho
balmy condor
gloomy knoll
you shou
slow marsh
You are shadowblade
slow marsh
Do your duty
ebon thorn
twitter is not a healthy place
limber lion
I woke up to great news
ebon thorn
obtuse robin
we need max to main his rogue
limber lion
Get fucked haters
slow marsh
FUCK YOU CEV
limber lion
slow marsh
This is your fault
gloomy knoll
what's the great news @limber lion ?
limber lion
Exsang Vendetta
gloomy knoll
did you get promoted 😮
balmy condor
I woke up to great news
the news being sin is bad next patch so you don't have to come back?
limber lion
What a time to be alive
nimble tartan
mfs really excited to waste globals in vendetta
gloomy knoll
iuno about good though
nimble tartan
on bleeds!!
slow marsh
Yeah we just need loot tables to come out and for it to have some trinket that has a 300% haste proc then we can use exsang
fleet whale
assuming it stays how it is
slow marsh
gloomy knoll
crimson tempest duskwalker meta
balmy condor
nah but like actually the tier set doesn't do anything hate to ruin your morning cev
gloomy knoll
0 dps 📈
limber lion
Yeh probably not
slow marsh
It's almost like exsang was really bad
fleet whale
did koji really say that this set bonus was big?
slow marsh
Then they put a slight better version of it on our tier
fleet whale
or are people just memeing
limber lion
I mean looking at the other tier sets
balmy condor
did koji really say that this set bonus was big?
can't imagine what he sees in it
limber lion
Assa 
slow marsh
He didn't say it was big
He said it was bigger than people are saying
Which is true
Even if it's just 1%
ebon thorn
hmm
ebon thorn
i think its weird
fleet whale
i mean also the tier set is entirely useless in anything outside of st
so that is another problem
slow marsh
Yeah except we can't do vanish tech anymore CUZ WE'LL BE RUNNING SUBT
fleet whale
the sub one has some aoe value
slow marsh
In aoe
ebon thorn
vendetta's gonna have 3 full garrotes right? so instead of 1 having the dmg buff, there will be 3 of them haivng it, so i guess it does do ok dmg??
slow marsh
Sounds juicy
balmy condor
what
gloomy knoll
no
ebon thorn
am i tripping balls
balmy condor
how do you get 3 full garrotes out of anything
gloomy knoll
and you'd get 1 big juicy garret
slow marsh
Yeah just 2 garretts
obtuse robin
ebon thorn
wait
obtuse robin
yea he did
ebon thorn
yeah nvm
balmy condor
gonna say that's cope
limber lion
I hate things being tied to Shiv
obtuse robin
fleet whale
yeah our damage from poison and bleed sources just aren't high enough
obtuse robin
he seems like it
echo cargo
napkin math shouldn't be super hard to figure out
fleet whale
also Koji is great but hes had some bad takes before
slow marsh
Yeah I am a sin hopium Stan and that is cope for sure
balmy condor
aight fuck this nonsense we go to the sim machine
obtuse robin
slow marsh
I hate things being tied to Shiv
Take a second and imagine
halcyon zealot
slow marsh
Instead of exsang 2.0 4p
echo cargo
@balmy condor fix all sims give info end cope
fleet whale
also that's another problem i hate shiv
lame ass looking ability that does like 100 damage
slow marsh
Our 4p was a chance to reset shiv
thorn turtle
Is necro assa still viable? I came back after a 7 month hiatus
slow marsh
No
thorn turtle
thorn turtle
Guess 9.2 venth only?
gloomy knoll
double leggo kills necro
0% st gain legendary is beyond useless in a raid environment
slow marsh
I mean venth looking most viable cuz 1min cds
Kyrian seems out the window cuz no synergy
thorn turtle
Yeah I was just about to craft the spike leggo and decided to ask people that actually play
slow marsh
Night fae is still night fae so that's a doubt
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> fix all sims give info end cope
can only estimate atm but I'm pulling some rough math
obtuse robin
nf might have some hidden tech tho
gloomy knoll
venth is pretty much our only option
fleet whale
I wonder if the duskwalker boots makes the sin tier set better
duskwalker leggo i mean
slow marsh
Yeah slightly
gloomy knoll
yea probs
limber lion
The sub 2p tier set looks dank
slow marsh
We were already gonna play that most likely so it helps some
limber lion
But I don't understand the 4p
slow marsh
The 4p sub is pray for interaction
thorn turtle
Sub meta again 
limber lion
I don't see the logic behind it
fleet whale
it's just a chance to get an extra SS with evis for sub in ST
and it cleaves in aoe
that's how i see it
slow marsh
If it works in sub favor then you have infinite SB and play akaari
obtuse robin
funel sb in to prio or something in aoe
slow marsh
If it doesn't then it's just m+ spec
fleet whale
in m+ it seems kind of cool
limber lion
I mean probably dank in aoe but idk
balmy condor
I don't see the logic behind it
the logic behind it means more strikes, more strikes means more 2 set, more 2 set means more blades, more blades means more dance, means more strikes, means more finishers, means more 4 set, means more strikes, means more 2 set
obtuse robin
lol
limber lion
the logic behind it means more strikes, more strikes means more 2 set, more 2 se...
Yeh fair enough
limber lion
Just a weird interaction imo
slow marsh
Idk the more I think about it the more Im feeling I might really need to get a mythic veinripper by the end of the tier
oak sky
fuck weaponmaster
slow marsh
WM bad talent
oak sky
obtuse robin
wait the outlaw set isd good?
slow marsh
It's free damage
thorn turtle
What’s better for m+ rn? Zoldyck or obe?
slow marsh
Zold
limber lion
Alright time to look through every single set
obtuse robin
but its boring as fuck
oak sky
a lot of them if not most look pretty decent
limber lion
What’s better for m+ rn? Zoldyck or obe?
Zoldy for most, Obe is great for some weeks
slow marsh
As long as the ps procs give cp doesn't matter
oak sky
i think overall blizz did a pretty good job
limber lion
Seli likes to play Obedience during Tyrannical and Zoldy during Fort afaik
oak sky
also mythic appearances 👍
slow marsh
I'm down for the mogs for sure
fleet whale
yo speaking of tier set bonuses did any of you see the arcane one? wtf looks op
dawn ivy
that class discord is probably on fire
riots
in fighting
because all three of their tier sets are kinda nuts
slow marsh
Doubt
oak sky
i like the frost one a lot actually
obtuse robin
??
fleet whale
if any class discord is on fire, it's the DH one specifically the havoc one
dawn ivy
i dont understand the frost one tbh
oak sky
it gives you free damage when it procs
obtuse robin
it makes then into what they were at the end of last expac doesnt it
fleet whale
mainly because it's always on fire, but again they'll have to use a first blood build
dawn ivy
4p buff lasts for 8 seconds, but the 2p only occurs once every 30 seconds????
like how do you stack it
if it only occurs once every 30 seconds and it only lasts for 8 seconds on the target
slow marsh
DH has no reason to be on fire
fleet whale
DH is always on fire though
oak sky
they get to press blade dance again
fleet whale
they could be the best spec for everything by 20#
slow marsh
They get to pick from a 2 button rotation with big dam or a 3 button rotation and both are rng
fleet whale
and it would still be on fire
fleet whale
if demonic is op people complain and say why momo isn't good
oak sky
rather be momentum
fleet whale
if momo is the meta people complain and want demonic
slow marsh
Forget that I rather play demonic
strange python
Are we dhs or rogues?
fleet whale
it's 3 AM
slow marsh
Lmao
strange python
9 here 🥰🥰
balmy condor
(don't mind the name) this is the breakdown of no dom shard obed/dashing with no sylv daggers, and 270 daggers in their place. DP dot is 4.8%, garrote and rupture add to 15%.
So the 2 set, shiv is 9 second, 25 sec cooldown, that's 36% uptime if it's just blast on cooldown. From that sim, rupture and garrote have 49.6% crit rates, we'll say 50% for easy math. So 36% uptime, it's 75%. if it's 15% damage with 50%, then it's 10% with no crit, 17.5% with 75% crit perma. So far, 100% uptime would be 2.5% damage 
but it's 36% uptime, which means it's 0.9% gain
That napkin math doesn't count any vendetta-exsang interaction but uh.......... doesn't look good to start
thorn turtle
Btw off topic af but don’t ever cook green shakshuka, it makes u so gassy that shrek might be jealous
fleet whale
oh boy a 1% dps increase
oak sky
1%
slow marsh
The 2p is whack we already know that
gloomy knoll
(don't mind the name) this is the breakdown of no dom shard obed/dashing with no...
no crimson tempest what u smoking
oak sky
someone give me a BatChest
balmy condor
no crimson tempest what u smoking
oh yes of course, crimson tempest will quadruple the gain, naturally
oak sky
fleet whale
my rule of thumb is that a 2-set and 4-set have to combine for around a 10% dps increase for me to consider it "good"
so that 4 set will have to make up a lot of ground
balmy condor
rupture and garrote account for 0.45% each, lets say CT does the same which it doesn't