k i just applied to some guilds
#assassination
slow marsh
brazen zodiac
pog
slow marsh
it will be sooner rather than later that's for sure
brazen zodiac
what happened to ur other
slow marsh
tired of waiting around
brazen zodiac
werent u on painsmith
slow marsh
We just had first weekend of KT last weekend
brazen zodiac
ah
slow marsh
probs kill it this week maybe. had really good prog for it being first night
brazen zodiac
how come u applyin to diff guilds :o
slow marsh
Been a long time coming but I've been dragging my feet about it
But mostly cuz schedule
slow marsh
Mine is just weekends don't work anymore now that social things are coming back
Wife kinda hates wow cuz we can't ever do anything on fri sat
void carbon
Can Dashing scoundrel work for M+
spice spire
Not well, no
slow marsh
Time to fix ASAP
Exactly lol
void carbon
what should i use for M+
spice spire
Zoldyck’s is a good selection, but if venthyr it’s recommended obedience for prio damage
So for like tyran weeks
Or even just top in general
void carbon
ok and what about raiding ive notice every rogue is using Dashing scoundrel
Can doomblade compete with the venthyr lego
void carbon
Thank you
strange python
Jesus Christ the top sin logs are just packed with externals
slow marsh
Of course they are
idle shard
How much of a dps difference is there between assa and sub for M painsmith?
balmy condor
Realistically not much
Not that it matters anyway
Painsmith isnt a dps check anymore
If you get dps checked on painsmith you probably can’t kill the eye either
idle shard
Lmao
I wanna try sin again but
My frost set is rank 3
Ive been playing it on heroics with blood tho
How hard u think id be memed if I go sin with blood set vs painsmith? Lmao @balmy condor
balmy condor
Idk if people would notice too much
strange python
i too shall have a pocket druid once we start reclearing
How? We have a fire mage
idle shard
Doom and dashing are both fine
Kk ty
sand sigil
without frost gems doomblade would still be better right? like the main thing to make dashing bis was the dom sockets wasn't it?
well dashing was close to doomblade before the gems iirc but definitely worse
limber lion
Correct
balmy condor
Dashing was within margin for a lot of people
Frost just made it noticeably better
Necro doomblade hard carries tho
sand sigil
rip necrolord raiding 2022
timid cloud
pure walrus
So with losing shards and as a skeleton build, venthyr still remains strongest? (Cov lego+normal lego)
limber lion
Skeleton build...?
balmy condor
💀
novel arrow
@balmy condor Hey Whispyr, I wanted to ask you if you guys used Ask Mr Robot's spell database thingy? I only found out recently they have a repository of spell and item interactions and formulas. Do you guys use that in sims etc?
novel arrow
Is there an alternative to where we can find spell and item formula's and the like?
Didn't know that.
balmy condor
Wowhead
balmy condor
All the tooltips in wowhead have their attack power % written in
novel arrow
okok. Ty.
slow marsh
Hi
limber lion
Hi
balmy condor
slow marsh
Ptr news when
balmy condor
After thanksgiving
slow marsh
So no birthday present for me
Boo blizzard bad company doesn't give birthday ptr news
oak sky
hi
oak sky
nah nobody really knows yet
novel arrow
I am trying to decide
whether I can farm Mythic for the next 3 months. Or am I going to lose my mind.
I'm probably going to lose my mind.
oak sky
can always take a break for a while if you need to man
novel arrow
Need to play outlaw to keep the fights fresh. 😄 Nightfae outlaw. Doesn't get more out there than that!
ok Gn everyone. Hope u all have a good day.
novel arrow
I dont know which zerocool you're talking about.
But the zerocool I know is an old man
XD If nightfae sin is real I'm gonna eat a shoe.
alpine radish
Is Frost set basically mandatory for zold lego sin in raid? Fairly new to rogue and haven't played sin at all yet so only have t5 blood atm
oak sky
you want to run dashing in raid ideally
frost set is better for sin pretty much no matter what if you have some crit gear
alpine radish
I'm just going to be lacking haste really unless I upgrade all my haste gear as I'm primarily crit vers due to sub gearing
I'll start upgrading Frost next as it's universally better across the board maybe not so much sub but still good
It's just to keep raiding fresh more than anything
gaunt halo
Can anyone recommend some good resources like guides, vods, streams for high lvl assa m+ (preferably not nf assa)?
plain onyx
Zerocool and there's no such thing called nf assa 🤓
gaunt halo
Does he stream? Found it thanks
digital shale
I'm just going to be lacking haste really unless I upgrade all my haste gear as ...
Im currently in the same Situation. How much lower does assa sim for you?
Got blood set on 5 and a lot of crit gear. Frost is only on 2 and a huge downgrade with dashing
peak bobcat
Frost is normally equal or pulls ahead on tier 4
digital shale
Frost is normally equal or pulls ahead on tier 4
Yeah, thats what ive also seen in sims
Right now with blood sub is like 11.4k dps and assa around 10.6
Feels like a huge difference
gusty mirage
Ye the dif is in the shard set rank
My sub sims around 11.6 and my sin sims at 11.2
But sub is more damage this tier so you have to take that into account as well
young spade
So can someone explain to my why exactly I should be pooling on my envenoms if I'm not having any issues getting full use of the increased poison crit window without pooling up to maybe 30-40 energy (depending on crits)
It seems like alacrity kinda carries you through low haste areas pretty well so long as you don't have long down times
hollow river
#1 so you’re never starved when you need to reapply bleeds
#2 so you’re always pooled up for shiv/vendetta/flag windows
#3 so you’re not overwriting envenom buff and EP Willy nilly
young spade
generally no, like of course I pool a bit when it's getting close to time to slam rupture and garrote back on but I'm speaking really just in terms of outside of cd windows
digital shale
Ye the dif is in the shard set rank
Yes ofc i see that. So i think theres not point for me to swap to assa right now, sadly
young spade
Okay so #3 is what I needed to see
Sorry I have a smooth brain and just started rogue this tier
gusty mirage
Yes ofc i see that. So i think theres not point for me to swap to assa right now...
Ye tbh I wouldn’t esp if you’re comfortable with sub
hollow river
Well that’s just how sin works
gusty mirage
Even if they were equal
hollow river
Spamming envenoms isn’t really good
young spade
Seems like mage and rogue have a lot more in common then I thought in terms of buff overlapping so I think I can figure it out
Just wasn't sure the reason behind heavy pooling as I haven't really been able to find much about it and it's hard to see that in logs too much
hollow river
Generally that’s just how energy type classes work
alpine radish
Im currently in the same Situation. How much lower does assa sim for you?
Haven't really run the sims yet I was just curious
young spade
Yah this is my first energy class as lmaoo, coming from fire mage and DH
hollow river
Well idk how DH building and spending works
young spade
A lot different but I can't see myself not playing rogue now and you could just using like a baking roller on your keyboard to play DH
arctic hare
Nahhhh, its not thattttt fast
young spade
BUT luckily I was pooling for burst windows and stuff already so I'll work on not overlapping
I last played DH in bfa
and corruption went brrr so it was pretty fast lol
arctic hare
One simply has to use demon’s bite and immolation aura, then use chaos strike, blade dance, and eyebeam
Yeah, its slower now, but still one of the faster apm specs
young spade
fun class though for sure
arctic hare
Ahh, bfa was the crazy days for dh
young spade
rip slappers
arctic hare
With the buff to their st, dh is still a very viable class in raids, and especially so in m+
young spade
I haven't played it in forever it seems like but it does slap lol
young spade
Not to mention seeing the hunt start casting while stunned in arenas can make you shit your pants
spice spire
They can see through stealth iirc
spice spire
Haven’t had that exact scenario pop up but don’t think it cancels
arctic hare
But, we could counter it by shadowstepping behind them and stunning them?
spice spire
Lowkey think that dh damage is probably stonks next tier 
arctic hare
Yeah, they definitely scale really well with good gear
jaunty steeple
didn't they consistently bring 2 havocs to go in the Windfury group in RWF?
arctic hare
Oh right, i get to kill heroic sylv again tonight
arctic hare
didn't they consistently bring 2 havocs to go in the Windfury group in RWF?
Don’t forget to bring us rogues
And yeah, i think so?
arctic hare
Rogues with slicendice along with windfury makes our autoattacks terrifyingly fast
arctic hare
Demon blades ups the value by 600% <:Copium:837690270492524566>
Ahhh, right, yeah
arctic hare
lol
bleak sky
unless tier set is shit I guess?
arctic hare
Maybe
But i doubt it will be, because if dh’s still use the burning wound and are stickin venthyr then they can combine that lego with it
Their st will become an absolute monster
bleak sky
but venth leggo + ca/dgb 
arctic hare
It’ll be absolutely ridiculous
bleak sky
wtb 9.2 ptr
arctic hare
lol, agreed
spice spire
but venth leggo + ca/dgb <:peepoyes:585733898881728512>
Yeah that’s more along the lines of my logic too
arctic hare
Ca?
And I think dbg is the eyebeam reset one right?
Now, i wonder what we’ll be able to pull off with obedience and doomblade/dashing
bleak sky
ca extends duration of sinful brand apparently
arctic hare
True
I feel that in m+ necro with their covenant lego will just fall behind obe and zoldyck m+
bleak sky
obe + zoldyck makes me happy
grim hornet
But, we could counter it by shadowstepping behind them and stunning them?
dunno if said yet but u can evasion the hunt
arctic hare
I tried using obe instead of zoldyck, and I was doing FAR more dmg than I did
gusty mirage
They can see through stealth iirc
Vanish should drop target completely still. Plus DHs can only see through stealth with spectral sight
arctic hare
dunno if said yet but u can evasion the hunt
Ahahahah, why am I not surprised
gusty mirage
If they’re in combat they can’t spectral sight
arctic hare
Hmm, oxi’s got a point
gusty mirage
Only people that can see through vanish are sin rogues if they have vendetta on you
arctic hare
Ahahahahaha
I really probably should pvp, but first, I’m terrible at it, and second, i can never get the stun right
gusty mirage
If you know anyone who’s experienced in arena you can just let them call for your stuns/blind
gusty mirage
Esp if they’re a mage
arctic hare
LOL, my brother’s a mage, or rather, is releveling one
gusty mirage
Because we’re just CC bots for mages in rogue-mage comps
I like rps a lot but you’re kinda throwing if you’re not playing with a mage tbh
arctic hare
Which kind of mage, fire or frost?
fickle jolt
When I sim, my unholy bonus is still being chosen over frost. About how much crit should I have for frost to pull ahead at equal gem levels or is it purely a sim thing?
gusty mirage
Which kind of mage, fire or frost?
Fire usually
gusty mirage
When I sim, my unholy bonus is still being chosen over frost. About how much cri...
Are they both rank 5?
fickle jolt
Rank 4. Had a take a month off so I've only been back for about 2 weeks
gusty mirage
Unholy will beat frost until you get to R4 at least iirc (assuming both are at least equal)
spice spire
When I sim, my unholy bonus is still being chosen over frost. About how much cri...
Circa 40% but it can be less - it depends on a multitude of things including covenant and even just the rest of your gear.
It’s going to be a sim yourself thing though
gusty mirage
Yea it’s also tied to how much crit you have and how good your gear is
fickle jolt
Thanks guys. I'll keep at it now that I know about where that finish line is
spice spire
gusty mirage
Thanks guys. I'll keep at it now that I know about where that finish line is
Welcome back and if you got any questions the homies are here for you 
arctic hare
I have no idea what happened last tuesday
fickle jolt
👍
arctic hare
But I pumped way more than I usually do
Ofc, roh kalo and kt always screw me over, since i be a dedicated down groupie
And roh kalo has made a habit of picking me everytime
glass tulip
If you actually want a parse you need to let your raid leader call a replacement for you no matter what
arctic hare
Ahahahaha
Thing is, while I do care about dpsing, rings are far more important
Since I’m one of the only ones who can safely do the middle ring without too much fear of dying
brazen zodiac
Thing is, while I do care about dpsing, rings are far more important
whats it like
to care abou whats important
clever kindle
Since I’m one of the only ones who can safely do the middle ring without too muc...
anyone with a freedom from a pally can just walk into half the balls and eat them
unless you dont have a pally
clever kindle
I was using it on tuesday so
arctic hare
They’ve already tried, it doesn’t consume them or somethin
clever kindle
it 100% does
arctic hare
Weird
clever kindle
Normally we just freedom -> cloak since its me or our other rogue on inside ring 90% of the time
(if its our warrior, godspeed)
Might have been bugged or something, who knows, but it did work tuesday night
sturdy stirrup
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D1XakfxbKnBA9mg2/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=15 can anyone look at my wrongs and tell me please
hollow river
It worked on our prog kill but that was over a month ago now
sturdy stirrup
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D1XakfxbKnBA9mg2/#fight=last&type=damage-do...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LD3FZ7GT18kmVa4N/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=13 and this one too please
bleak sky
shivs sus
spice spire
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D1XakfxbKnBA9mg2/#fight=last&type=damage-do...
Log reviewing purple parses are weird because you clearly understand what to do.
Big couple of things:
You technically missed a cast of vendetta + vanish, this is more flushed out on the eye than the nine as the nine is a small loss. Just be sure to fit them in on CD when possible.
You’re missing some shivs, and this is the biggest issue I see.
Also your garroting at max CP, stop that. Two wasted both fights on that.
Other than that
clever kindle
rogue damage also just doesnt look as good on heroic eye as mythic eye because you arent getting full value out of dots on the adds and your cooldowns arent lining up
You come out of the first intermission and still have a lot of time on vendetta
obtuse ruin
Any assa mythic+ streamers I can watch?
sturdy stirrup
Log reviewing purple parses are weird because you clearly understand what to do....
thank you was my second time
gaunt halo
Any assa mythic+ streamers I can watch?
Asked the same thing earlier:
https://m.twitch.tv/zerocoolx/about
clever kindle
gaunt halo
What's people's opinions on m+ anima powers for assasination btw? Worth going for bolstering on explosive/tormented weeks?
spice spire
Yeah explosives synergizes well with bolstering
gusty mirage
What's people's opinions on m+ anima powers for assasination btw? Worth going fo...
Always dagger, axe if your group ST kinda doo doo on tyran weeks, bolster on explosives weeks or boss fights with adds spawning (last boss mists, 2nd boss halls, etc) otherwise brand is fine
gusty mirage
Unfortunately none of the fire dude’s powers are really “wow must haves” ya know?
spice spire
Axe very pog on tyran necrotic wake as your bleeds proc it too. So you’ll be downstairs hail marying axes to the boss
Pretty nice
gusty mirage
Axe very pog on tyran necrotic wake as your bleeds proc it too. So you’ll be dow...
Funniest interaction ever lmao
gaunt halo
I'll give it a try 😄 Slowly getting to a point where it's hard to keep up. On fortified weeks especially
spice spire
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
limber lion
Practice makes perfect :')
viscid spear
And perfect takes practice. 😂
echo geyser
Axe very pog on tyran necrotic wake as your bleeds proc it too. So you’ll be dow...
do u even need dots for axe to proc?
drifting cloud
gratz @gusty mirage 
gusty mirage
Next kill I get dagger and mount 
spice spire
do u even need dots for axe to proc?
Don’t they proc off of damage?
I’m usually a Necrolord gamer so I always am damaging 
kind talon
Next kill I get dagger and mount <:2ez:587982296066424843>
next kill 
lyric crater
question what soul bind better for raiding nadjia or mad duke got some mix reviews
peak bobcat
Sim it but at higher gear levels it pulls ahead
Also worth swimming obedience with mfd if you have a decent amount of haste
glass tulip
Read 5 messages above you :)
brazen zodiac
Read 5 messages above you :)
gusty mirage
next kill <:copium:854628182104080414>
Next kill for sure
kind talon
Next kill for sure <:copium:854628182104080414>
you will kill again
bleak sky
someone get this man more copium
gusty mirage
you will kill again <:copium:854628182104080414>
Why wouldn’t I
spice spire
Because you’re logging for the tier 
gusty mirage
Nah fam we grind it out
Go for bis gear
Going to start pushin’ hard IO as sin to make @marble hemlock proud
gusty mirage
Spite pushing. Kicking me while I’m down
Spite pushing?
I broke the meta in the silver bracket sir
marble hemlock
Going to start pushin’ hard IO as sin to make <@210784027752398848> proud
already proud of you, king
gusty mirage
Ye but sub 19min 15sd on tyran is kinda huge
gusty mirage
already proud of you, king
spice spire
Yeah I think the best we’ve done is a 23 minute 17
So cutting 4+ off of 2 levels is pretty 
gusty mirage
Plus 3 sin rogues across the entire brackets 
spice spire
Yes man
Did almost 3k hps on mythic grue last night because no one soaked
Top damage take.
gusty mirage
shard of tel waiting room
limber lion
Useless shard
glass tulip
What's your IO goal
limber lion
14
glass tulip
Nice, huge numbers
outer cairn
Or be like me and Obe/MfD sims higher and then you get like an upgrade and now DS/MfD sims higher
limber lion
That's life my guy
echo geyser
Useless shard
keen mantle
on haste tea i think i dont reroll right?
spice spire
hollow river
on haste tea i think i dont reroll right?
Correct
hollow river
Main one we want is crit but haste is a good 2nd
spice spire
First it was CE... now it’s MDI
The great push sign up rn
gusty mirage
The great push sign up rn <:monkascheme:585734083590750219>
Already signed up
spice spire
Signing up this weekend king 
Gotta figure out if we’re using lunatic tank or normal tank rn
outer cairn
isn't it just time like 2 15s to get a banner? crap I'll find 4 randos and knock that out
spice spire
Yeah that’s it
viscid spear
Random question, which Warrior spec is looking better atm?
spice spire
Random question, which Warrior spec is looking better atm?
Raid or keys?
outer cairn
umm I think both
spice spire
Overall probably arms
It’s killer in raid and has really good cleave and decent aoe
Fury aoe is pretty disgusting overall
outer cairn
idk, i'm leveling a warrior and I've only played Fury I don't care if Arms beats it. I farmed Antorus for a good while to get the Red Scythe and by god I'm going to use both in my xmog
viscid spear
Kinda have a neglected BElf Warrior sitting on my Horde server, feel bad
outer cairn
yeah because fury you just WW, ST ability, ST ability, WW repeat for that cleave
spice spire
I mean fury is by no means bad either they’re both completely viable
outer cairn
yep. i have a buddy that plays fury and he does pretty well with it in raid because he wants to play fury. Just because a spec CAN do insane damage, doesn't mean the PLAYER can make it happen.
hollow river
idk, i'm leveling a warrior and I've only played Fury I don't care if Arms beats...
Double red scythes Pog
outer cairn
Double red scythes Pog
I can also go Double Blue or one of each. If I had a green one I could play Red Light Green Light
what i kinda don't like is the fact that any 1H can be xmogged to another 1H and 2H stuff can become polearms and staves, but a dagger is always dagger. Like come on
hollow river
Yep
viscid spear
what i kinda don't like is the fact that any 1H can be xmogged to another 1H and...
It's most jarring on classes with Artifact weapons, because a Mage or Priest can turn a 1H/OH combo into a staff this way.
outer cairn
that i was unaware of
hexed frost
77% uptime on garrote hmm
woven needle
I mean I can swap sin and sign up for it I'm swapping anyway
viscid spear
that i was unaware of
It's a bit complicated. Priest & Mage each have two staves as Artifact weapons, so no matter what they have equipped they can mog it into one of those Artifact Staff appearances. Mage has a Sword/OH combo and Priest has a Dagger/OH combo, and those Artifact appearances can only be used if you're using the same pieces, since Mages can't mog a sword into anything else and a Priest can't mog a dagger into a mace
paper bridge
do i always hold flag for vendetta? playing ds. I feel like im not getting enough stacks. on sub im always on 28-30 on sin 24-26
clever kindle
Pretty sure thats normal because sub has shadowblades
Your cp output is just higher
If you get super juice rng you can get on the higher end for sin
but if you get a 3 pt mutilate what are you gonna do
paper bridge
but im parsing 90+ on necro sin and way lower on venth. i guess im fucking up flag
gusty mirage
do i always hold flag for vendetta? playing ds. I feel like im not getting enoug...
you only hold if you won't miss a cast
also why are you playing DS?
clever kindle
the fight also matters so something to consider. like it's easier to parse higher on eye with necro then venthyr imo
gusty mirage
unless you mean dashing
paper bridge
I mean dashing yes 😂
paper bridge
No vigor
gusty mirage
w/ venthyr mfd is more damage
clever kindle
thats a big part of it then
gusty mirage
it'll get your first flag up to 28-30 stacks
paper bridge
You play obedience with mfd? Or stay with dashing
gusty mirage
either or
clever kindle
MFD with dashing, or obedience, but most people play dashing still I think
gusty mirage
I'd sim to make sure because for some people vigor & dashing still sims higher
but w/ enough gear it ends up beating vigor for dashing too
clever kindle
or on fights where you are focused on burst windows vs consistent dps
gusty mirage
opener slows down a bit, but you make up for it w/ better flag windows
clever kindle
@gusty mirage whats your preferred opener for running mfd? it feels slow enough that I could almost refresh garrote before going all in on my burst cds
just so I dont have to mid vendetta
gusty mirage
I just full send CDs as soon as I can, I go mut > snd > mut > garrote > arcane torrent > flag > rupture > vendetta
gusty mirage
I mean you can vendetta before the flag, moving those around is like super minimal
it's mostly just a system in my brain and anytime I try changing things up my brain melts down
but I find vendetta before flag leads to energy capping during that GCD
if lust on pull
clever kindle
I was casting flag after vanish with full CP then evenoming out of stealth
gusty mirage
you want to mutilate out of vanish to maximize MA window for CP generation more-so than the envenom crit
clever kindle
so basically get to 3 CP Vendetta, Shiv, Flag, Vanish, Envenom from stealth
was what I was doing
Yeah ill flip that around
I feel like the envenom from stealth thing was a mental holdover I had from last expac maybe
sharp zodiac
Mut > SnD >mut> garrote > flag> vendetta > rupture > vanish > shiv > Mut > envenom
Mut envenom until you’re at that like 22-24 stack mark which is usually around 2 seconds left of flag then MFD envenom for last stacks
outer cairn
The difference between Obe and Dashing for me is minimal. It comes down to do you wanna do more melee on the boss or want winds to hit harder?
glass tulip
also extra vers and cdr
tulip pendant
Full disclosure I have read a couple guides on rotations and what to do but correct me if I'm wrong are empowered bleeds like rupture and garrote affected by vendetta or am I an idiot and I suggest always refresh right before it expires
outer cairn
Not sure how to empower a Rupture, but Garrote w/ subterfuge you don't wanna overwrite unless you are vanishing and reapplying. Correct me if I'm wrong.
spice spire
They do more damage while vendetta is up. But like, it doesn’t snapshot to vendetta. So if you refresh it doesn’t stay and give the extra 30% damage for the entire duration. Just until vendetta ends
outer cairn
^ in the open for ST, garrote will come off unless you refresh it because of its timer. Rupture though at 4-5 you should be able to focus all of your vendetta into muts and envenoms before you need to refresh rupture.
glass tulip
How do you sim different theotar rolls against each other? I know I see it in here every day but now I need it 🤣
glass tulip
I got Agility and want to know if I should keep it or roll again
glass tulip
crit/haste, yeah?
oak sky
just assume crit/haste are good unless youve simmed it
bronze fiber
How is sin this week in m+ with spiteful not being able to restealth as much
glass tulip
You gotta get good timings or have a nice tank who doesnt chain pull :)
oak sky
just fine, its ok to not get a crazy amount of restealths
its a smaller dps loss than you would think
bronze fiber
Ok
outer cairn
Not to echo what was talked about earlier, but just go to https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/advanced and paste this at the bottom:
profileset."primary"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=primary"
profileset."versatility"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=versatility"
profileset."crit"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=crit"
profileset."haste"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=haste"
think thats the tea thing. least what i was told
oak sky
you need to put in your simc string first though
spice spire
How do you sim different theotar rolls against each other? I know I see it in he...
Also for constant reference it’s in the sub faq
oak sky
if you want to see whats better than nadjia i would sim that too
gusty mirage
Mut envenom until you’re at that like 22-24 stack mark which is usually around 2...
it's shiv > vanish > mut > env > mfd > env
outer cairn
but see i shiv, mut to 4-5 then vanish > envenom > mut > envenom > mfd > envenom
oak sky
small changes wont make a big dps difference, but oxi is giving you the recommended opener
limber lion
That's what I do as well except I Vanish immediately after tye Shiv
outer cairn
i try to do it. hard to retrian my brain on that
outer cairn
i mean its really do you want two envenoms to benefit from MA or two Muts
glass tulip
I'm a 2 envenom gamer
outer cairn
ugh i wouldn't even try to make my brain work that hard
oak sky
just play how you want
outer cairn
limber lion
i mean its really do you want two envenoms to benefit from MA or two Muts
Muti is definitely the better choice between the two
Envenom is a boring ass finisher
More CP from Muti = more Envenoms
see, better
clever kindle
jaunty kayak
hey.. uhm .. how should i play myth KT ? hold vend and flag for the add on the platform? but all on pull?
limber lion
It really depends how much damage you need and where
If you need damage downstairs, feel free to hold for those phases (between phases you can sometimes slam a flag, but hold Vend)
jaunty kayak
alright.. ill try for the first pull.. i guess, safer variant is to just hold vend for the phase?
limber lion
Really depends on how much dps you have there already. I didn't use cds because we had boomies and others already blasting it
limber lion
alright.. ill try for the first pull.. i guess, safer variant is to just hold ve...
Sure
frosty bridge
alright.. ill try for the first pull.. i guess, safer variant is to just hold ve...
a bit overkill imo
pushing boss damage is also kinda important
outer cairn
Muti is definitely the better choice between the two
I try to always remember to vanish after shiv, but my finger is trained to go to mut
limber lion
So feel free to slam after the secons remnant
slow marsh
If you play obedience and use cds on pull, flag will be up for intermission
limber lion
I try to always remember to vanish after shiv, but my finger is trained to go to...
Train out of it
jaunty kayak
If you play obedience and use cds on pull, flag will be up for intermission
dashing
limber lion
:')
frosty bridge
If you play obedience and use cds on pull, flag will be up for intermission
Not really
I mean at least not for us xD
always like 15 seconds off
small basin
in aoe with no prio target should i stop using shiv?
slow marsh
It still increases your poison dam so still use it on CD
small basin
ok ty
subtle tundra
any finger collectors in the chat
limber lion
Man could set up a shop
timid cloud
All the rings except the one you want. 
cerulean nest
our windfury boi had to hold a lockout on his shaman so no windfury this entire reclear
feels v bad
glass tulip
Couldve just had any alt hold it, no?
timid cloud
Yeah, all they have to do is get tied to the ID # by stepping inside of the instance.
sharp zodiac
imagine even having a windfury
timid cloud
So you could've even had a 145 rat alt hold it. RIP
cerulean nest
sorry i mispoke. he held it on an alt, but has to go resto this reclear because of roster stuff
same result lol
no windfury
slow marsh
All the rings except the one you want. <:feelsEUman:718259967169265765>
he has the only one he needs though
and he has the bis setup anyways wym memer
timid cloud
I see a 246 Arachnid.
timid cloud
Yeah, they're about the same, I think blood has a bit more crit.
slow marsh
yeah it does
you're right though arachnid would be ideal but i believe it's within 10 dps or something
mostly just depends on what neck / belt setup he has
gonna be fun when next tier our crit stacking shenanigans swings back to haste
slow marsh
i'm actually itching for some ptr news unlike ever before tho
All we're getting right now is more of the same pitchfork mob going after evil Bobby
slow marsh
Yeah ofc
Gonna be the next week probs
I mean
the week after
you know what i mean
hollow river
We need 200% haste
slow marsh
We can probs get it with iqd next tier
hollow river
So I can play exsanguinate
slow marsh
nanannananannananan chill
limber lion
We need 200% haste
Not enough
hollow river
Not enough
Then how much was it
limber lion
Then how much was it
126% is the maximum you can get
slow marsh
But I am excited for EP/ DS gang to rise next tier
limber lion
and that's not enough to make Exsang good
You also need borrowed power like Shrouded Suffocation or something
With the current systems and Exsang numbers, we will never ever play the talent
limber lion
Even with 3235478905782439524679854293786543269785489766798% of haste
hollow river
slow marsh
With as much as people talk about SS i'm starting to believe it's possible they add it as a tier bonus
hollow river
limber lion
I hope to god they add a bleed interaction
oak sky
Dont trust the cope
oak sky
Its gonna be some random thing
slow marsh
I'm leaning lazy bonuses over creative
oak sky
Either brand new or some lame damage increase
hollow river
I hope to god they add a bleed interaction
Wdym
limber lion
2 piece = Garrote gives 3 cp
4 piece = Garrotes used from stealth deal 400% more damage
oak sky
Theres no way its an old "creative" power
slow marsh
Garrote gives 3cp 0.o
limber lion
Garrote gives 3cp 0.o
That's how Shrouded Suffocation works lol..
slow marsh
then our ER dreams will surely be dead
slow marsh
Oh I wasn't playing then so idk how it works
gusty mirage
2 piece = Garrote gives 3 cp
4 piece = Garrotes used from stealth deal 400% more...
shrouded suffocation is BACK
oak sky
Nobody has that dream
limber lion
Can't wait.
slow marsh
I would love to be able to play Kyrian on sin
gusty mirage
god that'd be so good
oak sky
I wouldnt :)
gusty mirage
I would love to be able to play Kyrian on sin
limber lion
Probably gonna be some boring ass passive ass garbage ass boring ass shit
hollow river
Kyrian is fun
oak sky
And we would have to go rc next patch
hollow river
Probably gonna be some boring ass passive ass garbage ass boring ass shit
Stop
oak sky
hollow river
slow marsh
RC wouldn't be terrible though
spice spire
I wouldn’t mind shrouded as a bonus
limber lion
rc?
slow marsh
Not as good as dust obed gang ™
gusty mirage
Probably gonna be some boring ass passive ass garbage ass boring ass shit
"When mutilate applies lethal poison with both daggers, it poisons the target for an additional x damage"
inc
oak sky
Kyrian leggo cev
spice spire
No
limber lion
"When mutilate applies lethal poison with both daggers, it poisons the target fo...
double dose puke
all my homies hate double dose
spice spire
Resounding clarity 
slow marsh
Idk I like the idea of slamming 7cp envenoms in shiv window but yeah i'm with you guys i'd rather make a move more towards bleeds over the poison stuff
gusty mirage
all we got left is scent of blood, shrouded suff, double dose, and I think ttk?
limber lion
all we got left is scent of blood, shrouded suff, double dose, and I think ttk?
quite a bit more actually
echo is pretty big
hollow river
Guys
gusty mirage
oh true
spice spire
No fucking idea how that would be a set bonus
gusty mirage
I think katar is their shitty attempt at replacing echoing
limber lion
Blood of the Enemy felt great to press
hollow river
Guys I have an idea
limber lion
Especially after grinding that shit for fucking hours upon hours
hollow river
Just give us BFA sin back
hollow river
Exact same
slow marsh
Yo oxi I am talking to someone on a52 later to join their guild maybe
spice spire
Yes man
slow marsh
soon we will have triple rogue keys
gusty mirage
Just give us BFA sin back
if we can skip out on the exsanguinate garbage
slow marsh
soon ™
gusty mirage
I'm okay with that
limber lion
if we can skip out on the exsanguinate garbage
exsang was and is legit the best ability assassination have
spice spire
Actually high key busted
slow marsh
I didn't and I hate it
spice spire
I hated exsang at the time but I was infinitely worse
limber lion
that actually changes our rotation
slow marsh
I would love it if it affected all bleeds though
spice spire
I think now
oak sky
Aoe exsang would be so fun
spice spire
I’d love that shit
slow marsh
ala veinripper anima power
gusty mirage
that actually changes our rotation
that's partly why I hated it 🙂
limber lion
Exsang is legit fucking goated
gusty mirage
I'm a creature of habit
limber lion
I mean you can keep your dogshit alacrity if you want
I'll gladly take Exsang and play with it
hollow river
Oxi boomer oxi boomer
limber lion
and minmax shit with it
than have some passive ass boring ass garbage ass shit again
gusty mirage
they'd have to really really buff exsang to make it compete with alacrity
slow marsh
I don't prefer alac and I do prefer playing inside of windows so I should like exsang
oak sky
Lines up weird
slow marsh
But the rebellious anti-mainstream part of me doesn't like exsang
slow marsh
flag wont be 90s in 9.2
limber lion
I've heard a lot of people complain about Exsang who never even played it properly
and just shit on it
gusty mirage
I mean I despise MFD
gusty mirage
but I still play it
oak sky
Im not complaining
gusty mirage
so here we are
oak sky
Ive never played it
limber lion
it's legit the best thing we have in the game
slow marsh
false EP is
oak sky
It sounds like it would be cool as an option
slow marsh
EP literal best talent
oak sky
With adjustments to either us or borrowed power
gusty mirage
I mostly just hated exsang because it changed the rotation up and I was m+ monkey who stacked severe and strikethroughs
limber lion
- It alters our rotation
- It forces us to track timers differently and think about timers differently
- Allows for insane energy regen in single target and aoe situations
oak sky
M+ monkey 
limber lion
I mean
exsang was not great
unless you have 9x Expedient III
no point to ever play it
gusty mirage
ye
limber lion
and thus, no point to shit on it either
okay I played Exsang with 2x expedient
stfu
no
gusty mirage
nah I'll still hate it
hollow river
unless you have 9x Expedient III
What’s trust
slow marsh
Oxi just hates anything that's different
hollow river
That
gusty mirage
I never said it was bad
slow marsh
He hates theo for literally no reason
limber lion
I also hate money, weed, food and water
oak sky
Its really sad we can go an entire expac without seeing a few talents and nothing happens
hollow river
I hate Theo
limber lion
I feel like it's dumb to hate on something that you've never actually played with
hollow river
For no reason
oak sky
Venom rush 
limber lion
but idk
oak sky
Dude the shadow priest article on wowhead is so funny
timid cloud
I played with full exped & I hated it.
oak sky
Hes complaining that searing nightmare ruins their aoe rotation when it literally is their aoe rotation
hollow river
Wtf is exped
limber lion
Even with x2 cara daggys.
??????
Carapace daggers were not expedient daggers to start with
oak sky
But spriest aoe is like sub rogue
gusty mirage
I know people who loved expedient stacking exsang and tbh I support them fully
limber lion
so you didn't play full expedient
loud silo
hey coming back from a break and i dont mean to bother anyone, but do we have a pin somewhere for bis sin cov/conduit/leggo for 9.15
limber lion
how does you having carapace daggers have to do with anything?
gusty mirage
any gushing wounds enjoyers pre-vendor nerf? 
timid cloud
Because they were BIS for sin because of the stats they gave, like even while being goated geared.
limber lion
I also hated the awful severe + strikethrough echoing blades spam in m+
gusty mirage
I had 2 and then they announced vendor and insta nerf
limber lion
even with 2x carapace daggers
timid cloud
Oh lord.
slow marsh
The only wow boomer rogue stuff I can talk about is Deathbringer's will
limber lion
Because they were BIS for sin because of the stats they gave, like even while be...
my guy
limber lion
that's not true
gusty mirage
The only wow boomer rogue stuff I can talk about is Deathbringer's will
arguments about that almost killed my guild
timid cloud
I just want SS back.
gusty mirage
timid cloud
3 CP per garrote.
limber lion
I mean it is
timid cloud
limber lion
But it also helps that they had higher ilvl
slow marsh
arguments about that almost killed my guild
yeah worse than who gets glaives tbh
timid cloud
Yeah.
gusty mirage
I mean lets be real
if the set bonus makes exsang playable
we'll all switch whether we like it or not
slow marsh
mfd says hi
limber lion
Well
timid cloud
Did you use Plumage or did you use that other trinket, Cev?
GALECALLERS BOON
You seem like a boon kinda dude.
arctic hare
we'll all switch whether we like it or not
Shit, you’re right
limber lion
Did you use Plumage or did you use that other trinket, Cev?
I had bis gear, so Plumage
timid cloud
arctic hare
I have always wanted to use exsang tbh
slow marsh
I like it better than vigor but yeah the fact that so many people still play vigor just cuz is exactly my point
even if exsang is viable people still wont play it
gusty mirage
they will if its the better choice
limber lion
even if exsang is viable people still wont play it
wut
slow marsh
theo has been the better choice for so long
limber lion
that's a dumb thing to say
slow marsh
and people still play nadjia
gusty mirage
lets be real alacrity is boring as fuck
slow marsh
i'm not saying everyone will not play it
gusty mirage
nadjia isn't that far behind theo though
slow marsh
obvi us gamers will play it
gusty mirage
where it'll actually matter
slow marsh
people doesn't mean all
limber lion
but the fact of the matter is that Theo is not exactly better in every scenario either
just because it sims better in 5min patchwork
ya'll too focused on patchwork simmies
slow marsh
nadjia is actually prioritized higher in 5min sim than theo
timid cloud
Fights with Adds too...
slow marsh
theo has value in aoe, downtime,
gusty mirage
I mean so does nadjia, crit has massive value in aoe
limber lion
lol
an encounter where you get thrill seeker during cooldowns
is much better than a theo umbrella maybe procing
slow marsh
yeah true as long as your 10 second crit window pops with adds up
timid cloud
^
gusty mirage
Thrill seeker bugged out in one of my sylv pulls btw
and procced on pull
for me w/ lust
and pot
slow marsh
pog
limber lion
an encounter where you don't get Thrill Seeker because of intermission
limber lion
is a fight that's dog for Nadja
slow marsh
of course
gusty mirage
I mean umbrella during painsmith at all
how often are you stationary outside of p3 burn
timid cloud
Kinda often, actually.
slow marsh
yeah but who cares when you have token during painsmith
gusty mirage
we must've done a dif fight
slow marsh
Theo is just a better soulbind
gusty mirage
I knew I missed a step
forgot to pray to the GUID gods
there's a clip of my dumb ass back peddling off the platform on painsmith prog floating around
slow marsh
I mean yeah the top parses are going to be nadjia probably just because thrill and FF are super strong. Not arguing that at all
I'm arguing that theo consistency + defensive value is better for most situations
gusty mirage
I mean
a 2k absorb isn't really shit in a mythic raiding environment
plus I'd argue that the absorb from nadjia for healthstones + health pots is more valuable than a random 2k shield on someone
limber lion
Again, they just have different niches
The defensives are shit
One is an rng proc that gives you some damage
One is a calculated proc that gives you a lot of damage
timid cloud
Yeah.
limber lion
sometimes the calculated proc happens during an awful time where you don't get any value
limber lion
thus the other choice becomes the better choice
limber lion
but sometimes you have a lot of movement where the value of the shade drops
and Nadja gains value
just 2 different things
and you can honestly use either
and do completely fine
I wouldn't say one is better than the other
slow marsh
Was just gonna post 100 heal parses on prog wipes but yeah no need
limber lion
or more consistent than the other
slow marsh
plus I'd argue that the absorb from nadjia for healthstones + health pots is mor...
true shield on healthstone is better than token most of the times
gusty mirage
but ye tbh I'd be wary about saying one thing is better than the other straight up
sometimes we forget that the patchwerk sims are isolated boss events w/ no mechanics or intermissions or whatever
timid cloud
I'm going back & forth on Nadjia & Theo for Sylvanas.
I've had so many mixed results.
limber lion
I'm going back & forth on Nadjia & Theo for Sylvanas.
Go look at some pulls between the two and see how the Thrill Seeker timers line up with cds
then make your decision
slow marsh
Na I still stand by it but it's not better enough to fight over. Nadjia can be good if you can manage to get value from the procs
limber lion
I would use Nadja myself on Sylvanas
because with my timers I got it in p3 with all of my cds
which is the most important part of the fight
timid cloud
Were you able to touch chains at all?
limber lion
in p1?
timid cloud
Yeah.
limber lion
Sure, the second and third set slightly
but mainly just sticking to boss
she flies away during second chains, third chains happen during dps stop
hollow river
she flies away during second chains, third chains happen during dps stop
do you send your 2nd vendetta into 3rd veil i assume
that's what i've started doing as default at this point
limber lion
do you send your 2nd vendetta into 3rd veil i assume
hold it before the veil, send after she lands
hollow river
then it's dps stop?
limber lion
depends on timers, if you blast the boss that might cause you to miss out on bl value
so play accordingly
limber lion
then it's dps stop?
huh?
hollow river
huh
hollow river
hollow river
yeah
limber lion
Flag slightly earlier to get value from the adds
hollow river
im worried i won't have it up for BL in p3 though
limber lion
- haste afterwards on top of Vend
hollow river
because i'm using on both boss burns in p2
hollow river
plat 4
hollow river
i assume after veil
limber lion
just send Vend on CD, holding last one for lust
after veil yeh
both times
flag on cd
hollow river
we keep wiping at 62-67% now
limber lion
sync second to last vend/flag and last vend/flag
hollow river
nearly 400 pulls
limber lion
sheesh
hollow river
yep
limber lion
Not much chance doing that
they should line up pretty well automatically if you send vend/flag on both burns
and keep using on cd
and syncing the last 2
limber lion
it's like:
flag - vend - flag - vend/flag - vend/flag
limber lion
yas
hollow river
idk if i can swing that
limber lion
wut
sharp zodiac
typically
hollow river
idk why but
limber lion
you send it on cd
sharp zodiac
9:42 platform 2 11:42 Platform 3 and halfway through lust platform 4
hollow river
kk
sharp zodiac
Basically after the first wail veil combo plat 2
sharp zodiac
Same with platform 3 after wail veil combo
strange python
How to convince guild to find a kyrian resto and also have him give me KA over the nf mage
(who is also the GM)
timid cloud
Deal more dam than them.
jaunty steeple
send them a big enough cheque I suppose
hollow river
How to convince guild to find a kyrian resto and also have him give me KA over t...
better start farming herbs/fish/meat/gold
strange python
better start farming herbs/fish/meat/gold
We don't farm for gbank we just do sales and buy it all
We sell 4 buyers first 8, 2 mounts every week
strange python
Deal more dam than them.
I'm usually top damage (or top relevant damage on fights like sylv and kt), but we're all relatively equal parse wise
strange python
I get like 350k a week from our cuts?
hollow river
why don't you just share it with everyone
strange python
But I also don't get the mount till next tier and it's impossible to parse some fights
hollow river
everyone gets 1 whole raid with kyrian druid buff
strange python
We don't have a kyrian druid xD
timid cloud
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
limber lion
But I also don't get the mount till next tier and it's impossible to parse some ...
not with that attitude
strange python
And our PI goes on our demo lock who is basically rank 1 on every single fight
limber lion
:')
strange python
Our demo lock is a fucking chad
strange python
Nearly all 100s, doesn't use weakauras
strange python
Tbf to him, all the other demos are getting 2+ PIs
hollow river
so
strange python
Demo rankings are hilarious
hollow river
he should find a way to get 2 pi's too
timid cloud
You ever get 30+ Externals & still don't R1?
limber lion
timid cloud
strange python
I had like all top 50s before 9.1.5 (never had edge) but it's hard as fuck now with all the speed kills and external spam
limber lion
You ever get 30+ Externals & still don't R1?
That would be very, very unfortunate.
timid cloud
Couldn't be me tho.
hollow river
you'd have to afk
limber lion
I had like all top 50s before 9.1.5 (never had edge) but it's hard as fuck now w...
What a chad
timid cloud
I think the logs should just show natty (Natural damage) logs without externals.
strange python
Blizzard seems to actively want to diminish logs
hollow river
externals should 100% be removed from the regular parses