assassination

[slow marsh]

I rolled haste for tonight and don't want to risk

[kind talon]

idk i think that st funnel is just really good in the dungeons we have rn

like

[marble hemlock]

judging a classes performance and viability for mythic+ based on its overall damage is a bad thing to do

[kind talon]

plaguefall right

[marble hemlock]

ram is doing insanely well, and rogue does shit damage

[kind talon]

yeah i agree

[kind talon]

except in ToP :)

[marble hemlock]

but what he provides to the group is more valuable than putting in a warrior that could match the monk DPS

[kind talon]

yeah

also warrior just dies

rlly bad defensives

[oak sky]

How many cheaps can we fit in one dance

[marble hemlock]

not really

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

spell reflect works on like

80% of the shit in keys

[marble hemlock]

reflect is massive value

[kind talon]

depends on dungeon

[marble hemlock]

do spires with a warrior

[bleak sky]

intervene spell reflect on NW/ToP :kreygasm:

[kind talon]

top and pf u should play warr for wsure

[marble hemlock]

who can reflect every fucking

debuff from 3rd boss

[kind talon]

that shit is funny ye

[marble hemlock]

and take 0 damage

[kind talon]

pogga

[gusty mirage]

watched a warrior reflect the lightning discharge in dos

like ok?

[cerulean nest]

im so glad I dont care about pushing keys past max vault level. what a load off my mind

[bleak sky]

bigger io better person 😠

[oak sky]

Keys are really fun right now

Shockingly

[marble hemlock]

bop warrior in top to go into soulbinder first to reflect first debuff and watch it melt

etc.

[bleak sky]

true, keys really are fun

[marble hemlock]

warrior is lowkey the 2nd best class for m+ atm

[cerulean nest]

without a reward Im just not inspired personally, rather play other stuff and focus on raiding

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't mind getting in a push group but then I'd have to play

[gusty mirage]

we got the title and portals now

[marble hemlock]

in terms of what dungeons id say assa is best, its probably top and sanguine

[gusty mirage]

that's enough reward

[cerulean nest]

gear reward* I mean haha

[oak sky]

Sin is great in sanguine

[bleak sky]

oh I thought you were in for the .1% title oxi

[oak sky]

So many things to interrupt

[slow marsh]

Next patch we get tier drops from m+

[bleak sky]

almost congratz'd you

[gusty mirage]

lmao i'm like 200 io off man

no chance

[slow marsh]

Kinda pog

[oak sky]

A lot of prio and evening shit out

A lot of cleave packs

[bleak sky]

what's the cutoff at right now? 2740?

[marble hemlock]

my experience with m+ so far this expansion (and any other expansion, really) was that people dont think they want or need an assa rogue

but when theyve played with one for a while and its gone, the tank sorely misses it

[gusty mirage]

projected cut off for NA

[slow marsh]

Well sin isn't a flashy spec is why

[bleak sky]

so you pull the bait and switch on them

go in as sin;
swap while pull timer is running;
PUMP

[marble hemlock]

theres a reason why most tanks like playing with me, and most dps try to replace me

[gusty mirage]

top 1% but not good enough for top 0.1%

[bleak sky]

oh shit that's better than I expected

where did you get those number from oxi

[gusty mirage]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-sl-2/us

[bleak sky]

O

THAT'S POG

[gusty mirage]

under mythic+ there's a tab for it and breaks it down by region

[bleak sky]

wtf top 10 is 2134

[marble hemlock]

few people notice you doing a triple scribe pull and when you see people dropping low you vanish and triple garrote them for iron wire damage reduction to stabilize the grp

[gusty mirage]

yeah if you want some laughs

go to the very last page

and see how some people completed a +2 dos in like 4hours

[bleak sky]

feelsgoodmman

[fallen arch]

Switch alliance last min

[bleak sky]

are they not just trolling

[oak sky]

Approaching 1%

[marble hemlock]

you just gave your entire grp a barkskin, but few people will notice sadly

[gusty mirage]

then i only need 120 io

[bleak sky]

very doable this week I guess

[fallen arch]

Go for it

[bleak sky]

1 good tyra and 1 good fort gg

[kind talon]

I MADE IT

[gusty mirage]

I got pretty much everything at a +21 timed except for spires fortified

[kind talon]

LETS GO

[oak sky]

This is the good tyran

[bleak sky]

yep yep yep

[kind talon]

this is the good tyran

[bleak sky]

I'm still looking for my 22s

[kind talon]

straight out the hood tyran

[marble hemlock]

idk

[oak sky]

Im still looking for who asked

[kind talon]

i hate the old tyran

[oak sky]

Sheeeesh

[marble hemlock]

tyrannical can go suck some nuts

[gusty mirage]

tyran is a pain in the ass

[marble hemlock]

did dos earlier, got onetapped from bomb explosion mid-air

51k

[kind talon]

[oak sky]

Tyran is better for pugs

[marble hemlock]

no thanks

[oak sky]

Dont @

[marble hemlock]

tyranincal is just vers-gaming again

i hate that shit

play vers classes or die trying

[gusty mirage]

making unavoidable mechanics and shit one shots kinda kills the joy of pushing high keys

[marble hemlock]

i mean, it was fine in legion

[subtle tundra]

my only problem with tyrannical has been pf so far

[marble hemlock]

cause you had 5 different tools to deal with it

[subtle tundra]

last boss seemed close to impossible on 26 no joke

[marble hemlock]

but since bfa release its just

stack vers gear

and if its bad for your class, well, play a class that its good for

[gusty mirage]

god i can't imagine the damage from the rain

[subtle tundra]

destroyed 3 keys on it

[bleak sky]

what's your team like

[subtle tundra]

once was prot pala, sham resto, ele, frost sin
and 2 times with monk instead of frost

[gusty mirage]

I guess MW monk could counteract it but what's the CD on revival?

3min?

[marble hemlock]

its just about

healer being a healer

and people using defensives when needed

on tyrannical you can cloak it off twice thankfully

[bleak sky]

can you just heal it on a 26? if you dont have remove diseases

[subtle tundra]

if we dont bl 2nd phase we dont have dps to push fast enough, if we dont bl 3rd phase we get overrun by smallies

idk

[marble hemlock]

if you push 2nd phase during 2nd rain youre usually good

[subtle tundra]

we didnt have the dmg

almost had third rain

with bl

[marble hemlock]

yikes

yeah

thats no good

[oak sky]

The normal thing is big cds>lust>cds right?

[gusty mirage]

ye that's the general idea

[marble hemlock]

cds -> lust+pots -> cds

[subtle tundra]

last phase is incredibly hard aswell.

[oak sky]

Then you get multiple 1 mins

[subtle tundra]

you get overrun by smallies

[marble hemlock]

depending on grp you can pull the red blob down to the boss as wlel and not slurp it until 1st intermission

so you get haste for 2nd phase too

[oak sky]

Right

[subtle tundra]

hmm

could do that next time we get 26, bet its not gonna be this week knowing our luck

we're stuck with 3 25 pfs now kek

[oak sky]

Oof

[marble hemlock]

yeah idk, pushing keys feels boring

its mostly down to just having a lot of DPS

which is boring as fuck

[subtle tundra]

yea, overall check

on tyra

fortified atleast makes packs require some strats

tyra smash head

[marble hemlock]

ye

and i mean

as always its hard to fight the "oh yeah he plays assa, bad spec" just cause everyone else plays sub

[subtle tundra]

"b-but funnel!!!"

[marble hemlock]

and with me being "out of the scene", so to say, for a while now, most of the newer highkey pushers dont really know me that much anymore

[bleak sky]

play sub
deal no damage cuz idk how to play sub
back to assa

ezpz

[marble hemlock]

so i just play whenever i can, but i dont really care that much about pushing anymore

its sad but pushing isnt what it used to be

[subtle tundra]

well, i've started pushing in 8.2 and this is the first time i play with a team lmao

[marble hemlock]

they removed so much responsibility and challenge from the DPS by making most dmage unavoidable and having even fewer dps-specific affixes, that its just "go smash" gameplay for DPS

[fallen arch]

What changed

[marble hemlock]

the challenging roles in m+ are heal and tank atm, and in order to succeed well at those, you gotta play them all due to balancing issues

theres very little individual responsibility as a DPS these days

[fallen arch]

Except for dealing enough?

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[coarse vault]

Venthyr+Doomblade looks like a solid ST profile next tier for us (all things taken with a grain of salt)?

[subtle tundra]

holding shiv is a real difficulty 😔

[marble hemlock]

it goes as far as "use interrupts and cc when called for" and thats kinda it

[bleak sky]

that or venthyr+dashing

[hollow river]

Define succeed well...

[marble hemlock]

well, im ambitious so

[hollow river]

Because tank balance is insanely good right now

[marble hemlock]

in order to time #1 keys

[bleak sky]

yeah balance is good but they gotta play well right

can't just plop over because they can't use defensives

[hollow river]

You might do a bit more dam as DH or Pally

But if you’re good, you’re good

[marble hemlock]

idk, for the most part its guardian or protpal

[hollow river]

Whatever the class

[marble hemlock]

dh/dk cant compete

theres what, 1 brew?

[coarse vault]

@bleak sky cheers

[hollow river]

Brew is pretty insane

But you have to know the ins and outs

[bleak sky]

ya, 1 brew doing god's work

[kind talon]

who?

[bleak sky]

palbrew

[marble hemlock]

and he has

bis gear

[coarse vault]

any tips for folks looking to muck around with Venthyr?

[subtle tundra]

have fun!

[kind talon]

farm your renown

[bleak sky]

theotar is bae

drink the tea, stab enemies

[marble hemlock]

healer meta is super stale, so is the dps one

[kind talon]

healer meta is hpal rsham

[subtle tundra]

i just hate how overdominant monk is

[kind talon]

tank meta is protpal

[marble hemlock]

i basically quit m+ for 3+ months

[kind talon]

dps meta is r/m/monk

[marble hemlock]

i come back and its still the same

[subtle tundra]

the difference between monk and no monk in keys is so big

[kind talon]

yeah

thats a huge issue

[marble hemlock]

you still play monk, you still play mage, you still play rogue and people think only 1 rogue spec is viable, maybe you dont play boomy anymore, and thats about it

[kind talon]

is that u basically need a dps monk

[marble hemlock]

and yeah, remove random dps, add WW, time keys 2levels higher

thats just what it is rn

[kind talon]

so sad

[marble hemlock]

you might be able to get away with playing smth like

fury/rogue/mm or mage

and do similar stuff

but then you could just replace the mm/mage with a ww and do better regardless

[subtle tundra]

i play ele shaman, its so sad

with*

[bleak sky]

they're the only group without a mnk I think

[marble hemlock]

also, dungeons are dogshit

[bleak sky]

like at what point does comp actually start to matter

[oak sky]

Bear doesnt die pull around incarn and boomie incarn gg

[marble hemlock]

half the dungeons are way too gimmicky

only good dungeons this expac are top/sanguine

[oak sky]

What about halls

[subtle tundra]

dont you like walking/flying for long periods of time?

[oak sky]

I agree on sanguine 100% though

Good ass dungeon

[marble hemlock]

spires would be nice if theyd cut off the travel times which benefits classes with low CDs so theyh ave them every pull, and hurts classes that rely on short-duration buffs

halls is the freehold of SL

boring ass dungeon

[subtle tundra]

only reason sanguine is fun is venthyr lanterns imo

[bleak sky]

I like the bosses in sd

[subtle tundra]

have you done any of them on high tyra?

[marble hemlock]

id prefer if they got rid of the lanterns and just adjust the trash hp a bit

[subtle tundra]

you wont like them

[bleak sky]

nah, i'm bad varas

highest sd was 22 and feint is op so idk

[subtle tundra]

its not fun

if you dont have full lantern on 2nd boss, youre omegafucked

[marble hemlock]

yeah

our eggs didnt work so we only got 5stacks today

[subtle tundra]

first boss kiting the orbs

[subtle tundra]

do the shrooms

[oak sky]

@kind talon no lantern 2nd boss kekw

[subtle tundra]

from korthia

[marble hemlock]

dont think any of us had any

just get rid of that shit

[bleak sky]

explain pls

[kind talon]

it was my firwst time

[oak sky]

No

The prot pal

[subtle tundra]

some on use item leave some adds on the ground for 30 sec that die and gives 3 stacks

[oak sky]

[bleak sky]

oh shit

[subtle tundra]

you can time it right at the end of lantern to die and get stacks when youre far

[oak sky]

Used to do spiders right?

[subtle tundra]

spiders work too

[marble hemlock]

yeah i mean

[subtle tundra]

but 1 hr cd

[marble hemlock]

we used like 5 different things by now

[subtle tundra]

compared to 3 min

[marble hemlock]

they fix one

[oak sky]

I thought they patched it

[marble hemlock]

someone finds another

[kind talon]

questionable mawshroom from korthia

is the new one

iirc

[marble hemlock]

cuz they dont have the resources to have a single person sit there and try all the toys once

to fix all of them

so it jusit moves from one toy to the next to the next

[subtle tundra]

if sd lanterns worked ONLY with mobs from the dungeon it would be so so so much harder

no explosive/spiteful bs

[marble hemlock]

yeah well

could just lower mob/boss hp

[subtle tundra]

it just feels stupid that if you fuck a lantern you lose so much time

worse than a wipe

fuck up*

i dont think anyone here fucks lanterns

unless...?

[bleak sky]

some people fuck lanterns for sure, there's a fetish for everything

[subtle tundra]

being a lantern toucher myself, i can admit some stuff

[bleak sky]

watching andy's team running a 29 sd now. does not seem fun indeed.

[subtle tundra]

3rd boss if you dont have immunities to cycle through youre doomed

rogue cloak, 2x ice block, bubble

[bleak sky]

is karma enough to count as immunity?

[subtle tundra]

kek

nah

diffuse is close

[tired falcon]

Karma is only 50% of hp iirc

Nowhere near enough

[marble hemlock]

feint+fleshcraft does the trick

[subtle tundra]

venthyr gaming 😎

cheat death does aswell

[bleak sky]

talents gotta be used right

or else why pick them

[fallen arch]

Not use cheat death on cd = bad rogue

[fast nacelle]

hello sir @marble hemlock .
assa + necro + necro lego
yay or nay?

(m+)

[bleak sky]

that's the gigapad build

[marble hemlock]

hey tyra

idk

might be nice if they add smart targeting to SBS

[fast nacelle]

ok thank you. good bye

[marble hemlock]

and you have big pulls that live long enough

neither are very likely to happen

[vestal wren]

you could do a addon for smart targeting

[marble hemlock]

nah

[vestal wren]

or a weakaura if you want it to be easier to share

[fast nacelle]

everyone talked about target cap removal/adjustment
however i dont see much change. the rich kids got richer spinning around

[marble hemlock]

what i mean is that youd need the deathspike secondary spike to prioritize targets that dont have a sbs debuff yet

[fast nacelle]

not much changed right? beside some pulls like in dos

[marble hemlock]

same as moonfire

but right now the secondary spike can hit a target that already has sbs, even if theres 5 other targets that dont

[vestal wren]

is there a logic to it?

[marble hemlock]

for moonfire there is

[fast nacelle]

wait.. the proc ends up on a target already spiked?

[marble hemlock]

moonfire hits a second t arget, and will always prioritize hitting a target not yet affected by moonfire dot

[fast nacelle]

eventhough there are nonspiked targets

[marble hemlock]

yes

[fast nacelle]

whats bs

*thats

[marble hemlock]

yes

we dont have boomkin tech yet

sorry

[fast nacelle]

i thought like.. 3 garrote ct bs rup spread and after 5 globals u got like 6 bs and 3 rupture up spamming envenom ct

[marble hemlock]

you can

but you can end up with fewer

[fast nacelle]

[marble hemlock]

if you select the mai ntarget yourself, youll always have atleast 3

first one will always be 2, then you select one of the other 4, and then its 50:50 itll hit one that doesnt have the debuff yet

[fast nacelle]

maybe even worth cause of the cp gen to get the 2-3 big bois every pack spiked

[marble hemlock]

so after 2 casts you might end up with 3 or 4 sbs debuffs etc.

[fast nacelle]

yea

[marble hemlock]

and yes, it makes prio targeting with SBS annoying as hell

also, deathspike in m+ isnt all that great

because if you misplay it, you start a new pull with 3 or 4 spikes, and then the legendary barely does anything

imo they should rework deathspike to work like the anima power, that refunds more charges on kill

that way you could use it better for prio damage by getting extra spikes on prio if theres adds you can use to reset

and youd alwasy start each pull with full spikes

[fast nacelle]

mmh... sounds kinda sus
so probably its just still venthyr with execute lego right

[marble hemlock]

ye

obedience+zoldyck will be very solid

[severe sparrow]

soooo i always assume id want a +7 agi gem before any crit gems? not smart enough to figure out how to sim

[marble hemlock]

no idea what balances is in the making, but itll be hard to beat that

[fast nacelle]

oh im wondering how good double lego will be for assa
maybe we ll see the 1 min vendetta build

kyrian druid priest rogue - pew

[marble hemlock]

i dont see fae or kyrian being any good

[fast nacelle]

psure venthyr one is too good to not use it

not just lego .. also soulbinds

[marble hemlock]

i mean

necro and kyrian have better soulbinds than venthyr

mikathiccnos is still a menace

[fast nacelle]

yea but combined with lego its lit

imagine you can play one kyrian druid

assa rogue will be sexy af

[marble hemlock]

i dont wanna see what kyrian guardian druid does in m+

with double legendaries

[fast nacelle]

oh yeah.. this will be fun

[marble hemlock]

30sec kindred cd

with thrash leggo

[fast nacelle]

i hope they gate the double lego thingy to be after content clear tbh

seems like private server patch like 8.3 - corruption vendor

[marble hemlock]

put it on a frostmage to get haste everytime and youre down to 3sec thrash CD outside of incarn

[fast nacelle]

or 7.3 with the lego vendor

where you could just do funny things but aint balanced at all

[bleak sky]

you can add them to sim here 1 ssec

tick show all enhancements

and you get the +7 agi option in gems

[nimble narwhal]

we finally have a Phial, all it took was helping a guildie with a newly dinged char that luckily had trinkets from conquest boxes... 220 and only a 74dps loss compared to 246s

[kind talon]

yay

[arctic hare]

Awesome lol

[hollow river]

Sick nasty

[severe sparrow]

🙏 ty. guess i was wrong haha. thanks icy veins /s, praise sims

[subtle tundra]

playing without poisoned katar is omegacringe
fok 4 times on 4 targets

with 47% crit

[balmy condor]

playing with katar doesn't change that

[versed mica]

5% more crit changes the spec as much as 5% haste does

Completely different spec, can feel the difference!!!!

[balmy condor]

true

[bleak sky]

pogU broke 2500 io

[spice spire]

[kind talon]

pogU

gz bro

[golden basalt]

gzgzgz

[spice spire]

Caught in 4k king

[bleak sky]

im coming for zerocool and seli

[spice spire]

Seli’s returned

[balmy condor]

2 letters off

[spice spire]

??

[gusty mirage]

which part

[balmy condor]

the u to an a and the n to a d

[gusty mirage]

WOAHHHHHHHHHH

[spice spire]

Gamer moment

[gusty mirage]

also that shamefully took longer it should have

[echo geyser]

Seli key waiting room

[spice spire]

Same

US mornings been wild lately

Ramfamz and seliathan streams happening

Rogue content

[echo geyser]

@marble hemlock are u gonna try legion tw dungeons when they come?

i need sin PoV

[bleak sky]

andy destroying my ears while I watch ramfam's streams

YEP

[spice spire]

Andy certainly does do that

[marble hemlock]

yeah

depedns on whether i have people to play with, i guess

but it would be nice to have a bit of a blast from the past

i dont even know what dungeons are active

theyre all good assa dungeons imo

well, dht is a sub dungeon 100%

cuz you can giga funnel on 2nd/3rd boss

vault is great for assa, so is brh

think you can just play whatever you prefer, honestly

out of the 6 dungeon choices, id say eoa+dht are most likely to be sub favored simply beacuse you can always pull trash with bosses, or bosses have mechanics that give you additional targets

those were the 2 best sub dungeons in original legion too

[echo geyser]

i see

[marble hemlock]

eoa is crazy good for sub

can pull some crabs with every boss

[echo geyser]

what about CoS?

[marble hemlock]

for perma funnel

its a bit of a mix

depends on the tuning, honestly

CoS was a lot of cheesing with the engineering orb

and the only difficult part was 2nd boss

[echo geyser]

cos is the dung where u had to do the guessing game or ?

finding the spy or something?

[marble hemlock]

yeah, but that one was easy

worst case you lost 20seconds or smth

if it was downstairs and took the long route

[full tendon]

What stats for obedience if gonna play other specs, and do M+?

Crit/vers safe?

[thorny pond]

Yes

[full tendon]

Thanks

[bleak sky]

so, I'm having some problems with one specific mob in halls

whenever I garrote this guy, he starts flying up in the air, becomes untargetable and is kinda free casting

this one

anyone else having/had this issue? it seems to be only when garroting from stealth

[spice spire]

Yes

He has to be kicked and moved

[bleak sky]

all the other obliterators are fine when garroted

it's just this guy that's fucky

[spice spire]

Yeah idk what it is but that ones a nutter

[bleak sky]

oof

thanks 😦

[native cobalt]

😄

[timid cloud]

[thorny pond]

I love it

[balmy condor]

I thought I’ve seen it all

ROTATION BLINDSIDE IS UP!

[golden basalt]

Do you have an extensive priority list for your cast alert or is it just clutter?

[balmy condor]

It’s the enemy casting, KICK HIM!

Seems straightforward to me

[golden basalt]

Just kick everyone 4head

[native cobalt]

lol... i got some algorythm yeah... its messy tho

[balmy condor]

Wait is that your actual UI?

Not just a random meme you found?

[thorny pond]

Pin it

[native cobalt]

if combo points >= 4 then slice, if slice is up rupture, if slice and rupture up then eviscerate

if combos < 4 then garrote, if gattore is up or on cd theen mutilate

[balmy condor]

Oh no no no

[thorny pond]

Not even ironic. I love it. Unique asf with real effort

[native cobalt]

and if blindside pops it takes priority with ambush

[balmy condor]

I mean the effort is there, and it is unique

But

[native cobalt]

so it only shows one icon at a time

[thorny pond]

If it works for him

[native cobalt]

i dont follow it blindly 😛 its just suggesting skills

but its nice to know when slice, rupture are running out

[thorny pond]

It’s pretty cool

[native cobalt]

or when blindside is up, it plays a xylophone sound haha

thanks!

[thorny pond]

Does it work with other talents like DS?

[native cobalt]

yeah, thats weak auras

u can pick whatever talent, skill, debuff, health percentage

[thorny pond]

Sick

[native cobalt]

then u represent it however u like

with bars, skulls, hearts,

words

[balmy condor]

Do the bars for your cooldowns do offensive as well in like a big list, or are those sectioned off somewhere else

[native cobalt]

shotgun sounds

yeah u can track anything, cooldowns, buffs, debuffs

[balmy condor]

No I’m saying in yours

Does vendetta show up in the same list with kick and cloak etc

[native cobalt]

oh, im low level so now im just trackin a few cds 😦

[balmy condor]

I see

[native cobalt]

u can like make a huge vendetta icon flashing an bouncing if u want lol

[thorny pond]

Gonna contract this guy to design my next package

[native cobalt]

if its ready, or if its about to be ready, and make it play a lick king laugh and stuff

[balmy condor]

I have my own setup, just icons mostly though

Let me see if I can find the crazier one of my setups

[native cobalt]

i once had it play a scream whenever a minion was with health below 20% or something like that

[balmy condor]

Ah yes

I did this on vectis prog

In uldir

[native cobalt]

so as i was curing it, and it was taking damage, it keept going up and below, so it didnt stop screaming haha

oh that looks neat

[bleak sky]

that's a pretty beyblade you got there

let it rip

[balmy condor]

I forget what each one of them was at this point, but the inner circle is a boss weakaura, and then the inner slices are health energy at the top, vendetta on the left, vanish on the right, toxic blade at the time in the middle, and then the outside was gar rup ep uptime, envenom uptime, vendetta uptime

I think

It was like 2 years ago so it’s a little foggy

[fossil abyss]

what am i looking at

[balmy condor]

I made a couple UI’s that were uh

Experimental

[fossil abyss]

did you liie

like*

hide your actionbars too and only show this?

[balmy condor]

Yeah I haven’t had my actionbars showing since legion

[fossil abyss]

cuz id give you a medal for somehow managing to play like that

wait what

[balmy condor]

I mean I killed mythic vectis with it

It’s completely playable

Takes some getting used to

[fossil abyss]

so you played with the only thing being your ability identicators that vortex

[balmy condor]

But it’s actually not the worst thing

Yes

[fossil abyss]

[balmy condor]

There were are combo points but they’re not shown

[fossil abyss]

was about to ask

[balmy condor]

But they were also in the vortex

[fossil abyss]

what about the energy?

[balmy condor]

Like a hexagon around it

Energy is the inner top right slice

[fossil abyss]

damn

[scenic pumice]

recommended to use sharp stones or oils?

[balmy condor]

stones

[fickle jolt]

So I'm reading over the Icy Veins guide and it's saying to go Frost shards. Isn't there a minimum amount of crit you need for that? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere and I remember that you had to have like 40%+

[marble hemlock]

i changed it recently (not even a week ago) as it used to say exactly what you just pointed out

but the expectation at this point is that people are sitting at 230-240ilvl and at that point its very likely that running an optimized setup will put frost ahead already

well, maybe not 240

closer to 220+, but that should be sufficient to hit 35-40crit

[fickle jolt]

I had taken about a month off so I'm just now getting to about 235. I've figured out that I just can't play Sub worth a damn so I'm going back to Sin to try and make myself feel like I'm not a total shitter.

[marble hemlock]

i think the best approach would just be to sim if any of the other sets are currently better for you, but even if they are, its a mid-term investment to upgrade the frost set as they will inevitably pull ahead if you plan on playing assa in the near future as well

wouldnt be surprised if the blood set is best at lower gear levels as it does fixed damage instead of scaling with your regular dps output

[static rock]

In m+ at what target count do we use fok over mut?

[slow marsh]

4+

fok at 3 if you dont have poisons up

[echo geyser]

so if someone is spamming fok on 2targets that is completely wrong

[brazen gust]

What lego and cov should i go as Assassin for Single target Dmg in raid

[marble hemlock]

Spamming yeah

But but sitting at 3cp with 50% crit, it'd be more energy efficient to fok instead of mut

On 2t that is

When i can't fully sustain energy i usually Mut once and if it wasn't 2 or 4 CP I'd fok as a follow-up to be more efficient with my energy

[dark glen]

does nightstalker dmg increase apply to dots?

[slow marsh]

yeah

[dark glen]

hmm

[red plaza]

#assassination-faq
#assassination-faq message

[brazen gust]

So how big of a diffrence is Doomblades from dashing ?

[hollow river]

depends

kinda have to sim yourself

[gusty mirage]

a bit less for necro because sbs bleed counts toward doomblade damage

but they're very similar

[brazen gust]

So i am g oing to go Ven With doomblade lego

[slow marsh]

@gusty mirage i'm sorry i failed you

i didn't get 2 parse on fate

[gusty mirage]

you're better off playing obedience tbh

[brazen gust]

Okay ill have to farm up my renown i just switched to vent

[manic harness]

uh

From the FAQ

Legendary Slot Crafting
Obedience on Cloak
Doomblade on Cloak

When I look up Raidbots, it doesn't have Doomblade on cloak?

[slow marsh]

bloodstained shroud

[manic harness]

Oh nvm

Thanks

[manic harness]

I'm gonna guess that if Dashing is simming less than Doomblade and Obedience, that I don't have enough crit?

I have full Frost gems also

[prisma carbon]

probably

whats your crit at?

[gusty mirage]

[manic harness]

37% no buffs

[prisma carbon]

👋

ya thats pretty low

[slow marsh]

holy shit i'm maybe getting to stay upstairs for KT

[gusty mirage]

you switching back to pirate?

[slow marsh]

no

[gusty mirage]

going to play upstairs as assa?

[slow marsh]

how many times do i have to tell you

[gusty mirage]

yikes

[slow marsh]

i am reformed

[gusty mirage]

at least play sub

jeez

[slow marsh]

nope

i am sin otp

[gusty mirage]

wait

did you finally kill painsmith?

[slow marsh]

no

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

we are still stuck on painsmith i am just progging heroic KT

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

[static rock]

What’s the best tea stat?

Crit for m+ and raid?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[balmy condor]

bro what

how many pulls are you in

we were on painsmith together at one point and I'm 250 pulls in on sylv

[slow marsh]

i'm jk

we killed fate earlier and am like 8 pulls into KT

and uncapped CT is actually poggers

[balmy condor]

oh thank christ

I was about to be like 450 pull painsmith wtf

[slow marsh]

yeah

it would be tragic but also not that far outside of reality for this guild

[hollow escarp]

doubt a guild can survive so many wipes on that boss

[jaunty steeple]

Painboi is so much more chill on melee than ranged

I progged it on my shaman and holy fuck it nearly broke me

granted most of it was due to shit wipes and not actually the fight

[thorny pond]

It’s just one of those fights where like 2-3 bad raiders can really break you

If you have a healer who can’t make it to p3 consistently you’re just kinda screwed

[jaunty steeple]

wiped too many fucking times just cause people died randomly in intermission or P1-2 spikes

[slow marsh]

yeah we had healers dying to tank spikes every pull pretty much

[hollow river]

there's def 300+ wipe guilds

on pain

think there's 600-700 on sylv

[jaunty steeple]

think we killed Pain after like ~180 legit wipes or something

[hollow river]

whats the site you look at all the statistics

like avg wipe/max wipe counts

[slow marsh]

yo do aboms rez if you kill them

[hollow escarp]

progstats.io

[slow marsh]

early

[jaunty steeple]

they do

KT is legit all about managing the timing in intermission between outside and inside

and also kicks on the outside

also tbh

fuck that fight

[slow marsh]

yeah i'm starting to understand it

the hate for it that is

[jaunty steeple]

like all the damage checks are memes if people are just alive

well, may need to manage CDs for phylactery but still

[slow marsh]

yeah we are struggling to coordinate killing upstairs and downstairs at the same time

[jaunty steeple]

that was by far our biggest cause of wipes

just need a set group of peeps going in with set CD timings

[hollow river]

one of the worst fights this tier

most of them are bad though

[hollow river]

need someone downstairs/upstairs to make stop DPS calls

step up gamer you got this

[hollow escarp]

we didn't even do dps stops downstairs

on last round downstairs it was me and an enha shaman, all cds and lust

[hollow river]

we would always stop dps

let top kill first then finish remnant

sometimes it went differently

it varied a little bit

[hollow escarp]

it gets pretty hectic with full melee squad

[hollow river]

but you have a window to kill

[hollow escarp]

yeah

10 sec

[hollow river]

yeah

we took ranged down

me, h pal, fire mage, boomkin

[hollow escarp]

our issue was upstairs mobs dying at different times

[hollow river]

and sometimes hunter

same

[hollow escarp]

2 rogues, 1 feral, 1 enha

[hollow river]

i dont get how its so hard to interrupt

and kill stuff properly

[hollow river]

sounds spicy AF

[hollow escarp]

it was fine until last phase

that's why we decided to go 2 people with full cds

as it's only 20% hp the same time to kill adds upstairs

[misty holly]

Is mythic KT difficult?

[jaunty steeple]

depends

[misty holly]

The fight is a total joke on heroic

[jaunty steeple]

I mean it certainly is harder than heroic

[fallen arch]

If people can interrupt and watch healthbars it’s fine

Requires a bit of coordination

[timid cloud]

If you can kill everything at the same time & do some pump, the fight is the easiest.

[fallen arch]

And if everybody is awake enough to hit their interrupt buttons

[native cobalt]

at lvl 22 this looks kinda... bad

when talentless, slice and dice > rupture > garrote > envenom?

tho wait...

regarding time window... its a lot of dps...

[plain onyx]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[balmy condor]

It’s meant to be single target damage, the poison application is important for other effects down the line, as well as damage

A good part of envenoms damage is hidden behind that poison application buff

At end game, melee and envenom are your top 2 damage sources

[native cobalt]

@balmy condor it is kinda decepti cuz, you look at that and you see, oh, rupture deals almost double the damage for the same amount of cps

[slow marsh]

shiv op

[native cobalt]

but then... envenom does its damage in 1/4 of the time 😛

that rupture takes

[balmy condor]

Envenom does it’s damage instantly

[native cobalt]

instantly?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[native cobalt]

"instantly" ?

[balmy condor]

It does instant damage

And then gives you a buff

[native cobalt]

ohhh

[balmy condor]

Which the 5 seconds or whatever

You also can cast like 4 envenoms

In the same time it takes rupture to tick

Rupture and garrote are energy generation pretty much

[native cobalt]

tho its quite low in priority in these rotations

[balmy condor]

Yes

[native cobalt]

tho not veryyyyy low

[balmy condor]

But 1 through 4 Is just maintaining buffs

5-7 are cooldowns

So after that, not much is left

[hollow river]

envenom big damage

[native cobalt]

i was starting to think ppl only use to refresh slice and dice 😛 big noob here haha...

[hollow river]

that's half correct, in multi target

you maintain dots on all targets, once everything has dots, if you have time, you envenom

or you envenom whenever you need to maintain SnD

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[hollow river]

in ST it's technically the same rules

you just end up envenoming more in ST because there's less dots to maintain

[plain onyx]

i mean do i need to play the meta spec to be good in the game. I pump dps in m+ with assa more than sub and people keep asking me why assa in m+ 😩

[native cobalt]

makes playing unholy dk look like a cake

you manually change target after target to apply all those dots?

[spice spire]

yes

you can also do a mouseover macro in m+

[balmy condor]

Need good nameplates for that tbh

[spice spire]

for garrotes anyway, unsure if I've heard of mouseovers for ruptures

[balmy condor]

I tried Mouseovers and hated it

Can’t do it

[spice spire]

something like the infamous ceverion plates?

[balmy condor]

Tab target gamer

[spice spire]

Yeah I personally hate it too

twinsies

[balmy condor]

My plates better

[spice spire]

link juice

[native cobalt]

u need some big plates... i bet

[spice spire]

I knew you had a wa, didn't know you had a plater profile

[full tendon]

Tripletsies

[balmy condor]

https://wago.io/p/whispyr

It’s all on there

https://wago.io/t6bI_B9wi

These ones

[spice spire]

yeah

tbh never checked your profile because I'm a scrub XD

looks good though

[balmy condor]

Smh

[spice spire]

may try out

I was giga scrub and used a KUI default type plate for a while

[balmy condor]

It’s okay I simp for cev too

[hollow river]

same

[balmy condor]

The @warped temple special?

[spice spire]

does he?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Ryfie is kui default gamer

[spice spire]

you're making me feel real good rn

being compared to a goat like that

[balmy condor]

Jez is a clown on god tho

She was like “I need a plate addon, I’m using defaults on all my alts, my druid uses elv plates”

And I’m like

[spice spire]

wat

[balmy condor]

No shot you use defaults on alts

So she logged over

[spice spire]

@wild lantern bro?

[balmy condor]

Turns out she’s been using plater defaults

And just didn’t know

[spice spire]

jez wildin

[balmy condor]

She turned them off to see what the defaults are

[spice spire]

smdh

[balmy condor]

And I swear I have NEVER seen her open her addon list faster

To swap back

[spice spire]

ATT updates

checkmate king

[balmy condor]

She does not update as fast

I promise you

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

OSU player type mouse movement brother

She got nasty csgo flicks

[spice spire]

oh yeah? been getting pointers from oxi I see

never seen a flick so hard after a tilting wipe

s2g

[balmy condor]

Yeah same I hit every sand bunker now just like @gusty mirage

Dude plays golf like he’s going to the beach

[spice spire]

man just trying to bring the sunny weather vibes to the north

gotta respect the grustle

40 over par type beat

[balmy condor]

Can’t drive 300, hits the fairway hazard

Snatchin on the 3 iron like an ex gf

[spice spire]

HOLY MOLY

man's out here slamming slices like he's slamming shiv

on cooldown

[balmy condor]

I can’t wait till he wakes up

Gonna ping me at 4am madge as hell

[spice spire]

nah it's the weekend

he's gonna be a bit later

I hope

[balmy condor]

Grind don’t stop

[spice spire]

yeah but the court system does

[balmy condor]

Can’t stop if you never start

[spice spire]

FUCK

[hollow river]

[timid cloud]

Me waiting on Whispyr golfing streams.

[slow marsh]

Why am I awake

[timid cloud]

Darn, why did we remove the pin about MFD. I was still practicing it & I forgot what to do.

[limber lion]

Not sure if joking or not

[timid cloud]

There was a lil pin & I forgot because I have bad memory.

It said to hold it for x time & other stuff.

I’m obviously still sending it, but I’m just trying to optimize while not big braining it. If that makes sense.

[limber lion]

the thing is, there's nothing big brain about mfd

You send it on cooldown, making sure to hold one charge for every flag cast.

That's it :p

[timid cloud]

Guess I’m still overthinking it too much.

I just simply have to hit my buttons.

I’ll do MFD / Dashing later tonight for sales to see if I’ll do it next week for reclear.

[kindred rapids]

Wtf

[native cobalt]

ey guys, i got a question about rogues. when i play rogue, its like choose if u garrote, ambush, sap, or cheap shot out of stealth, then u choose if u slice and dice, garrote... u gonna build combo points to use a finisher? use a finisher early?... and then stuff like vendetta, and marked for death, and dances, use them before, or in the middle of combat etc... its like there are so many options, so many approaches... do rogues rly have many ways to address a situation? that much flexibility and expertise? or its all an ilusion and in truth theres only one meta, one way to play like theres with all other classes and this is all... bs? 😛

sorry about the wall btw

[viscid spear]

[timid cloud]

There’s a lot to learn, but once you learn it, it’s simple...ish...

You can learn a lot from the guide though, & then after that the real intricate questions can be answered better.

[native cobalt]

i guess ima try to shorten it out... do rogues rly have an asernal of options to deal with tons of situations, a huge kit or... they have a meta like everybody else and everybody plays them the same way no matter what?

[viscid spear]

Read the pins, faq, and whatever stuff you find here to get an understanding. Then if you have further questions to expand on we can help.

Though slipping in a question about dance is very sus
This is the Assassination section, the only dance we do is the Danse Macabre.

[timid cloud]

You also might be worrying about stuff a bit too soon, aren’t you like...level 30 or something???

[native cobalt]

what i mean is...is this depth real or... superficial?

cuz if its real i want it! but if get that level cap and realize they are another flavor of "beast mastery"... then it would be a bit disapointing haha...

[viscid spear]

Well we don't have a pet

So we're nothing like BM

[native cobalt]

do u use all skills in the spellbook?

[viscid spear]

Like which abilities in particular are you curious about?

[native cobalt]

oh... its just... it would be great if rogues have like 100 different ways to play...

[timid cloud]

Yes. You use them all. Except maybe Ambush in certain situations. Or Pick Lock, or Detect Stealth.

Situations change, you have different abilities to usually deal with it, but just like every class, you have limitations, & cool downs.

[native cobalt]

unholy for example, all they do is spread some diseases and pop them, over and over while rogue gives this feeling it has tons of setups and variations and optimal ways to play so it would be very rewarding to main it

[cobalt pelican]

you're asking non-questions

every spec in the entire game has an optimal way to play

[viscid spear]

Play whatever you want, these Discords can help you play it great.

[timid cloud]

It’s hard to say if there’s really any class in the game that has like “100 ways” to engage a pack, it’s more like...a few right ways & a whole lot of wrong ones.

[kindred rapids]

It's all a lie

Rogues are just bm hunters with knives

Sorry to disappoint you

[small basin]

kinda true with assa tbh

[viscid spear]

Also you're asking about Rogues overall and doing it in the Assassination section, when you could've seen there's a General channel.
So either you posted in the wrong section by accident or you're fishier than a naga

[small basin]

xD

[timid cloud]

Definitely true with outlaw.

But at the end of the day...

[small basin]

always found outlaw a bit more fast paced and involed personally

but i like both, assa is chill

[viscid spear]

He left apparently

[timid cloud]

[native cobalt]

lol

[viscid spear]

[native cobalt]

you guys know rogues way better than me so just asking if its rly this amazing! cuz i see there are way too many options rly low level like this

[small basin]

rogue is fun

all 3 specs have different playstyles

[timid cloud]

[viscid spear]

Do you like the class?

[kindred rapids]

Basically what play style you use is going to be determined by the content you're doing.

[native cobalt]

yeah, they look kinda rich compared to some classes @viscid spear

[kindred rapids]

Rotations for raid are fairly simple / fixed

[small basin]

assa = bleedy bleedy outlaw = shooty shooty sub = stabby stabby

[viscid spear]

Then keep leveling and worry about max-level content at max-level.

We're not trying to sound mean or anything, but your initial questions were quite open-ended and difficult to really answer how you wanted.
No one can tell you what to play in this game, if you enjoy something then that's all that matters. You're welcome to peruse all the information we have here and in all the other channels.
This Discord is to help everyone and foster a community, so don't be afraid to jump in.

[fallen arch]

Wrong

You should play rogue

Master class

[viscid spear]

[wild lantern]

Okay yeah I've never been happier to be wrong in my life default plates are aids

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

[gloomy fern]

thx for help cf plode

[cobalt pelican]

np, keep checking back daily for top tips and you will parse blue in no time

[viscid spear]

I parsed Puce once.

[static rock]

do we ever think about seal fate or no? for example when on guardian and at 4 cp do i use ambush even if it could seal fate and waste a cp?

[viscid spear]

y'all Googling that color

[fallen arch]

thats why u finish at max-1

[viscid spear]

Think you just finisher at 4 because you don't want to waste a CP
Also you never use Ambush

Well not never, just hardly ever

[fallen arch]

On Guardian u can use it with blindside

[static rock]

like on guardian

im using blindside

[static rock]

but finishing at 4 is finishing max-2

[viscid spear]

Well yeah, with BS ofc.

[fallen arch]

At 4 you use it

The ambush proc I mean

[static rock]

okay thanks

[fallen arch]

With deeper

At 5 you finish

And use the proc after ur finisher

[boreal pond]

what are you guys playing in m+ as sin rogue?

leggo + talent wise

im doing just level 15s

[gusty mirage]

What covenant

[boreal pond]

venthyr

[gusty mirage]

You can play either obedience or zoldyk, obedience a bit better for more prio dam

Talents: EP, Subterfuge, either vigor or mfd, iron wire, alacrity and crimson tempest

[boreal pond]

thx

was on the right track there

[plain onyx]

you don't really need to change covenants/spec to hit keys more than 15s

[boreal pond]

yeah im not really doing anything above 15s on my rogue just wanted to check in to see if was using the right leggo/talent combo for that level of keys

[warped temple]

KUI BIS. idk. honestly it gets the job done and shows me everything I need so i havent found a reason to switch to something else lol

[gusty mirage]

The copium is real Mr. ryfie

KUI man? What is this 2010?

[dark glen]

so someone told me the other day that nightstalker increase dmg of dots but it seems likes that's not the case? unless the tooltip not changing is incorrect?

[gusty mirage]

Nightstalker increases the damage of abilities used from stealth

So if you used garrote from stealth it’d do more damage for the duration of the dot

[vestal wren]

nothing wrong with kui

[dark glen]

yea that's what I had figured. so that's indeed the case, despite the dmg not changing when in stealth?

cause it seems like there are some other skills not affected going off the TT too.

[boreal pond]

what is the go to soulbind for sin m+? should i sim or is whats out there on herodmg site the right info

[balmy condor]

Theotar, simming is the way, just be aware nadjia is bugged

[balmy condor]

Wdym damage not changing when in stealth?

[limber lion]

The bleed damage snapshots when you use the ability from stealth

[dark glen]

you're able to apparently see what'ss affect by nightstalker if you toggle stealth on and off and look at tooltips.

[limber lion]

They do not dynamically change when you enter stealth

[dark glen]

sorry whatca mean by snapshot?

[limber lion]

So if you use garrote from stealth, it will deal increased damage for the entire duration instead of only when you're in stealth

[vestal wren]

it means the ability keeps the damage amp even if the emitting buff is gone

[limber lion]

But if you apply a garrote out of stealth and then vanish, your garrotes damage won't increase

But yeah, tooltips are always a bit janky

But literally all of Assassination's abilities are affected by Nightstalker, just in different ways

[arctic walrus]

holey moley is that ceverion

[dark glen]

o ok, i just wanted to confirmed it applied to things it showed it didn't lol

[arctic walrus]

big fan

[limber lion]

yo is that vel, the greatest assa rogue in na???

i'm weak

[arctic walrus]

oh sheesh people slapping titles on me? tyty

[balmy condor]

Tooltips are notoriously garbage just btw

[arctic walrus]

you're not weak silly you're cev

[limber lion]

[dark glen]

yea im aware. its trying to figure how they accurate they are or arent haha

[limber lion]

Yeh you're better off asking here what works and what doesn't instead of trying to figure it out yourself with tooltips. :P

[dark glen]

why is this? if you do it out of stealth and then vanish should it still have the increased dmg? O.o

[balmy condor]

Because it’s the cast

[limber lion]

No, because of the way Nightstalker works. It increases damage done by abilities that you cast

[balmy condor]

^

[limber lion]

Not the damage you deal during stealth

it's worded kinda funny

[balmy condor]

Nightstalker on sub works differently, and is a regular increase during stealth and dance

[dark glen]

So the correct way its suppose to work is the garrote is indeed supposed to have increased dmg even if you vanish after but the vanish wipes teh buff?

[balmy condor]

You vanish and then have to garrote to nightstalker it

[dark glen]

i get what ya'll saying, just trying to understand exactly why it doesn't work as it should.

[balmy condor]

Once you leave stealth, the buff disappears

[dark glen]

right

[limber lion]

Like Whispyr said, Nightstalker is bad for us because once we use an ability from stealth, the buff disappears meaning we only get 1 cast (ideally rupture or garrote) from stealth and nothing more.

[dark glen]

o right

[limber lion]

Vanish doesn't wipe the buff right

[balmy condor]

The reason the tooltip doesn’t update is cause idk, blizzard lazy

[vestal wren]

it is usually used on rupture or ct tho

[dark glen]

i thought yall were saying that a nightstalker garrote would change mid dot if i vanished after

gotcha

[dark glen]

ct?

[vestal wren]

crimson tempest

[limber lion]

No, you garrote from stealth which means you'll get the full 18s of increased damage on your garrote

[dark glen]

oo kk

[limber lion]

even if you never vanish during the garrote

[dark glen]

gotcha

excellent

[limber lion]

and even if you do, nothing changes on the damage

the only thing that would change the garrote damage is if you use another garrote out of stealth

[dark glen]

yea i already understood it only applied to one thing lol

[limber lion]

meaning you overwrite the amplified garrote

[dark glen]

thats why i was kinda lost

[limber lion]

So when playing Nightstalker, make sure to ALWAYS let your amplified bleed drop before applying another one.

Be it garrote, rupture or crimson tempest.

[dark glen]

gotcha

ok cool.

thanks for the tips and assistance ya'll!

[limber lion]

Good luck out there!

@balmy condor u cute

[balmy condor]

Nah

[limber lion]

:(

[spice spire]

@gusty mirage

Just an impromptu quick sess

Solid vibes

[gusty mirage]

nah you misunderstood the emote