assassination

[balmy condor]

frost is almost 1k ahead of unholy my guy

[cerulean nest]

dont scare me like that

[balmy condor]

any time where you get an additional cast

[zinc frost]

Cursed emoji

[ebon notch]

im wondering if obed would be good on sylvanas mythic

ill test it tomorrow

[balmy condor]

If I find an optimization that makes unholy better than frost

hell has frozen over

[buoyant mauve]

I really liked the burst windows on sludgefist with ma and mfd, this new part feels like it'll be very similar

[balmy condor]

it is

[ebon notch]

timings are gonna be fucky wucky

should be fun either way

[shrewd helm]

Are we still running frost with Obedience mfd?

[zinc frost]

Yep, frost is king

[shrewd helm]

Well im glad I only have ds at 235

Now I can just make obedience

[balmy condor]

do people not realize how good frost is

[zinc frost]

Nope, man even if damage was the same as unholy frost is still so much better defensive

[slow marsh]

I mean it makes sense obed is back....since you know it never left

[buoyant mauve]

I made a 2nd rogue specifically to play as sin, but now that I know obe is better again, it's hard to resist the temptation

[oak sky]

we don't synv mfd with shiv right

sync

just use it on cd

[versed mica]

You always use shiv on cd once the opener is completed

[kind talon]

U don’t use it unless u can get a reset basically on KT

Lol

Just use it on adds

And the glacial spikes

[idle star]

My winds is rank 5 at 241ilvl my average seems to be 30-40k. Hmmm.

[harsh lantern]

mfd in chat

[drowsy parcel]

not sure spikes resets mfd

it doesnt reset bonespike

[ebon notch]

kt nothing resets dogshit boss

[ebon notch]

you sync it with flag

[oak sky]

i meant when flag is on cd

[balmy condor]

Nah

Only thing to sync is mfd flag

[arctic walrus]

what spikes

[ebon notch]

ice spikes on kt

[drowsy parcel]

kt spikes

[arctic walrus]

they do

[drowsy parcel]

sbs just spaghetti then i guess

they fixed every other add on kt but the ice spikes never worked

[limber lion]

They definitely do work

They changed the sbs disappearing from targets without threat values

And it's been working fine since then

Same thing on Painsmith/Remnant balls

[drowsy parcel]

painsmith works

remnant does not

i think theres something weird going on since they turn friendly

and im not sure about kt spikes i havent tried in a couple of weeks

but they didnt work when they fixed every otehr add

[limber lion]

I mean yeah remnant balls don't reset sbs

But sbs doesn't disappear from them

Like it used to previously.

[drowsy parcel]

it disappears from anduin in p3 sylv

very sad

[sour wraith]

are the mfd changes in the nightly build on raidbots or is there something i need to put into advanced or the custom apl section for right now?

[balmy condor]

It’s custom apl atm

You can rip it from the sim in the pins if you know how

But it’ll be in nightly in the next couple days

[sour wraith]

I think i can figure it out

[balmy condor]

So I’m not gonna explain how and all that

[dawn ivy]

i hate this new tech

[topaz sparrow]

the day i make obdience for luls whisper makesa now gameplay using it , im a sage?

[kind talon]

They do

[balmy condor]

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch friend i need ur help

[topaz sparrow]

i hate/love u

god , which fights this will be better , which wont , will i have to use 3 builds on this raids now ? why everything gotta be so complicated?

[balmy condor]

Every fight except guardian

You would go ep mfd the entire raid

And then bs/deeper on guardian

[topaz sparrow]

ok so i think i like this build , i can mfd annoying adds , balls , everything and that would be extra dps? i can start to see it

[uneven hamlet]

hey @balmy condor the thing u say that depends on kill time, which time would be it ? is better on long fights or short fights? or it is something related with cd usage of flag

[balmy condor]

That would be dps on top of the sim yes. The sim pinned is pure raw single target no resets

[balmy condor]

Anything that gets you more flag casts

[uneven hamlet]

oh, great

[balmy condor]

But you can get giga cucked on like the eye or something

Cause you send it on pull and then if you’re quick it comes up on the eye and you’re like aight fuck I can’t cast cause it’s gonna die

And then you use it on the boss again

And then it comes up but the boss is about to phase and you’re like aight fuck I can’t cast cause it’s gonna phase

So then you use it on the eye

And then you get into p3 and the boss is about to die and flag has 5 seconds left on it

And you want to just throw yourself off the ledge cause nothing is good

[dawn ivy]

i can only pray this doesnt translate into next tier somehow

[topaz sparrow]

cant agree more with the comment above

now if my guild doesnt have a dh , should i commit suicide when a feral obliterates me in dmg?

[balmy condor]

You can’t keep up with a feral even with the dh buff most of the time I’m gonna be honest

I play sub atm and me and the feral druid are fighting for boss damage

It’s just not doable

[soft shale]

i knew mfd was a thing

praise me

[arctic walrus]

ptsd going up against ferals

[balmy condor]

I still hear the gunfire when I close my eyes

[lunar otter]

@balmy condor so why is mfd back for venth what changed?

[lavish lichen]

Pin

[balmy condor]

Yeh I think I outlined it fairly well in the pin

Idk how to answer that

[lunar otter]

no im asking why out of no where mfd is a thing ?

[dawn ivy]

yeah he explained it in the pin

optimization is a pretty keyword

[lunar otter]

im asking why over night now mfd pulsl ahead and it hasnt b4

[balmy condor]

Because that’s how APL optimizations work

[lunar otter]

the sim u mean ?

[real solar]

he optimized the usage of MFD in the sims

instead of prepull slice, he changed it what he says in the pins

[lunar otter]

ok there we go theres the answer

[real solar]

it's in

the pins

[balmy condor]

[real solar]

he literally states what changed

[lunar otter]

omg

[arctic walrus]

it was brought to our attention and we took a look

[balmy condor]

The windows shut down noise is getting louder and louder

Is that just me

[real solar]

you turn off your PC?

[balmy condor]

Nah I’m at work

[brazen zodiac]

more satisfying machinery plz @balmy condor

[dawn ivy]

this just feels like a hectic mess of shiv/mfd/flag

nothing feels right anymore, im going back to my dashing

[gray sleet]

Hello. I'm kawa. I'm the unluckiest rogue in all of SL

I have 37% Crit

and in my opener

in the last 8 pulls for Nerzhul reclear

i haven't gotten a single Mutilate Crit

after using Vanish

[soft shale]

that is why you go for thee 50%

no chances taken in this town

[gray sleet]

I do what i can with the gear i have

[balmy condor]

[soft shale]

pray to a better imaginary friend

my preferred one is ra

praise the sun

now cross fingers for sylv M kill and getting dagger

instead of belt

[brazen zodiac]

gl!!

[versed mica]

I'm singlehandedly the most luckiest and unluckiest rogue
Last expack against ashvane (raided as outlaw) I once got a 5 buff three times during the fight, and in another pull I rerolled the entire fight because I never got a decent roll

RNG just be like that

[gray sleet]

I haven't gotten a dagger

since launch

not inf LFR

not in Normal

Not in HC

not in chest

so yeah

[soft shale]

neverluky

[gray sleet]

I swithced to a 226 amulet from Nerzul

and went to 42%

it feel better

[soft shale]

tbh the spires neck is really good too

try and get that one

for rings cypher and gorger are big crit

[gray sleet]

not that one?

[soft shale]

oh nice yea

i was talking more about places that you can spam

like my sorry ass had to do

[gray sleet]

I hope we clear nerzhul tonight and i get the fcking necklace

[lunar otter]

mfd in m+?

[gusty mirage]

no

ST

[quasi venture]

Mfd obediance

[slow marsh]

ok can confirm mfd is goated

[full tendon]

is goated like greatest of all timeded?

[sudden canyon]

what yall think the tier sets gonna be?

poison focused or bleed focus?

[oak sky]

Could be something else like envenom or a generator or something too

[slow marsh]

give sin restless blades and that's it

[oak sky]

Really no way of knowing

[sudden canyon]

yea

but im tryna have fun

gimme some speculations

/wish list

[slow marsh]

well they do stuff like make the frost set so it's literally impossible to even speculate with any kind of realism

[balmy condor]

ye

[sudden canyon]

yea but set bonuses limit the scope of what we could speculate. i doubt theyll make tier sets that have 0 interaction with current our kit and are just some shitty proc based effects. if they do theyll get so much shit for lazy design and they know it.

[slow marsh]

i mean yeah

but

[sudden canyon]

also im not asking you to predict. just speculate

[slow marsh]

domination shards

[sudden canyon]

you could say casting env summons a giant cock that fucks the boss

idc

[cursive silo]

If they didn’t confirm the opposite i think theres a good chance the set is about the covenant spell

[gloomy knoll]

what kills times does obedience not win at @balmy condor?

[zinc frost]

I think we are playing a different game

[gloomy knoll]

or is it just any kill time wher eobedience is just coming off cd

[balmy condor]

3:30

[gloomy knoll]

[balmy condor]

idk

I just tossed out a number

[gloomy knoll]

lol

[real solar]

how about 3:31 whispyr

[balmy condor]

fights are different

[oak sky]

The covenant spell would kinda suck since we already have leggos that do that and also it doesn't change specs

[balmy condor]

obedience sucks on certain fights

[real solar]

how about if i have 3.5s of downtime

[cursive silo]

3:30 would be a good time for obed peepothink

[balmy condor]

depends on how you push boss

etc

[sudden canyon]

i feel like were not getting double leggos

theres no way theyre competent enough to balance double legos + tier sets.

[gloomy knoll]

ill prob just fiddle with dashing for now then

[sudden canyon]

even tho they did it in legion

[gloomy knoll]

more apm

[sudden canyon]

and the legos were way more powerful

[gloomy knoll]

less bored

[oak sky]

Arent these mostly the same leggos from legion also though

They should be competent enough to balance them together

[gloomy knoll]

is the mfd change in the nightly build?

[real solar]

@balmy condor how much higher does MFD sim at if we have 30s pull timers

[sudden canyon]

yea, but it feels like theyre way smaller in terms of the people they have working on the game than they were in legion. everything this expac has felt super underdeveloped

well maybe everything prior to release which makes sense coz of covid

[oak sky]

Underdeveloped that was probably caused by a global pandemic 🤷‍♂️

[balmy condor]

about 100 higher than mah

sorry ma* fat nuts in your mouth

[real solar]

😦

[sudden canyon]

goteem

[balmy condor]

no

[sudden canyon]

!mfd

[real solar]

give me a reason to make my whole raid hate me

[sudden canyon]

whats the change?

[real solar]

for 30s pull timer

[cursive silo]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear
through Top Gear.
Critical Strike >= Haste > Versatility > Mastery
Note: Having a frost set equipped makes crit much better, usually making it your best stat by a good margin.

[cursive silo]

Pog its actually changed

[spice spire]

Sin rogues truly willing to do any demonic thing for top damage smh

[sudden canyon]

sub rogues with deathly shadows cheese 👀

[cursive silo]

Why would a bigger pull timer help with mfd

Can’t compute

[balmy condor]

cause you would save a gcd

[gloomy knoll]

you can cast it get like a couple cp snd

and have it up for pull

[cursive silo]

Oh is it 30 sec for sin too

[balmy condor]

I mean realisitically @real solar you would only need a 22 second pull timer

[cursive silo]

Thought that was only for sub

[balmy condor]

21 would cut it close

[gloomy knoll]

its only 1 min for outlaw cuz restless

[cursive silo]

Yea

[balmy condor]

restless is nonsense

[gloomy knoll]

you'd mfd at like 22

snd at like 8-9

and it would be back up when you need it

[sudden canyon]

do you guys secure 30 stacks on obd?

[balmy condor]

no

[gloomy knoll]

i think u got like 10-15 seconds before cp starts falling off

[balmy condor]

even with mfd, 30 is rough

[real solar]

tryna think - mutilate -> garrote -> flag -> rupture -> shiv -> vanish muti -> envenom -> mfd envenom

[balmy condor]

I think the sim averages 27?

[real solar]

yeah ok 22s

[balmy condor]

don't you ever fucking doubt me again

[real solar]

dad

STOP IT

[sudden canyon]

thats ruff

[gloomy knoll]

you wasted a mantle second on a garrote

prob not ideal opener

[balmy condor]

would've been a rupture

or a snd

waste either way

[gloomy knoll]

could mut > rupture > mut > garret > flag

envenom

shiv vanish yada yada

if you did the prepull mfd snd

[balmy condor]

mut env mut on stealth sounds real bad

[gloomy knoll]

energy drought ftw

[ebon notch]

just pool in the opener

[slow marsh]

i'm getting 28-30 on pain right now

[gloomy knoll]

i generally average 24 without mfd

28 on a good pull

so yea sounds about right

[slow marsh]

how much increase is starting with snd ?

asking for a friend

[balmy condor]

[real solar]

you guys ever kill a boss when flag is like

2s away from being up?

that's what prepull SND solves

:^)

[cursive silo]

Ah yea

Flag on cast damage

The best part about the spell

[ebon notch]

ive had that crit for like 12k

[balmy condor]

wouldn't it still be 1s from being up

in that situation

[real solar]

ok ya u're always right

[slow marsh]

so wtf is the 22 pull timer for

[balmy condor]

it's so you can prepull snd

[real solar]

it's for quality of life

[balmy condor]

with mfd

[real solar]

prepull SND

[balmy condor]

and then have mfd

[slow marsh]

THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT

i am just getting baited by myself today

[cursive silo]

Sounds rough

[ebon notch]

you hate to see it

[slow marsh]

no i wanted to know how much increase is it to have 22s pull timer so i know if i should actually ask for it or not

[night leaf]

is mfd build also ahead of bs/ds?

[ebon notch]

no

[real solar]

no

[slow marsh]

nobody plays that though

[ebon notch]

i play bs/ds

[real solar]

you should only on guardian

[ebon notch]

i play it on remnant but apparently thats bad

[night leaf]

in fights like guardian

y

[real solar]

my guild usually does a 20s pull timer already because @warped temple never has shadow dance charges, so 22s pull timer is not much to ask for in my case

[balmy condor]

it's enough of dps increase to look like a clown asking for a 22s pull timer

[plush garnet]

You guys run CT on fatescribe?

[real solar]

shh, it's big increase

HUGE

[ebon notch]

on mythic or heroic

are you padding or not

[plush garnet]

uh well I was referring to heroic but does it change

[ebon notch]

just go poison bomb on mythic

boss dam is important

on heroic if you're not soaking adds then CT

if you're soaking more than like 3 adds just go PB

[slow marsh]

i can't tell if getting baited

i give up

i am on pain and people are dying before intermission

im already in pain

i come here for peace

[hollow river]

Pain takes a while yo

[ebon notch]

no fuck that was my joke

[real solar]

it's actually like 1 dps upgrade doing the prepull snd

[hollow river]

We’re like 110 pulls in - PB 2%

[gloomy knoll]

they really just needa make that dumb pad talent baseline

[ebon notch]

either make CT or PB baseline tbh its dogshit to talent into it

[hollow river]

Dies next week and then we own the rest

[full tendon]

CT should def be baseline

[slow marsh]

i already love and hate mfd cuz of you guys

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

Is it common in most guides for people to die in p1 after 100 pulls?

[gusty mirage]

Guardian is free af

[hollow river]

I feel like this is common

[ebon notch]

extremely common

i said it before but

[hollow river]

Kk

[gusty mirage]

yea every guild has an idiot or 7

[ebon notch]

on our first kill we did it with a dps dead since p1

LMAO

[hollow river]

Our gm was getting kinda pissed

[gusty mirage]

boss literally broke Whispyr

[gloomy knoll]

wait what

[gusty mirage]

he hasn't been the same since

[hollow river]

And I’m sitting here like

[gloomy knoll]

what are people dying to in p1

[hollow river]

.....

[gloomy knoll]

is literally heroic

[ebon notch]

balls

[full tendon]

First kills are sometimes hilarious, because someone whose parse was excellent till then, is shit on the kill

[ebon notch]

spikes

[gloomy knoll]

[ebon notch]

no defensives

[hollow river]

Balls or chains

[slow marsh]

yeah balls and chains

[hollow river]

Etc

[gloomy knoll]

in p1?

[slow marsh]

yes

[ebon notch]

cock and ball torture

[hollow river]

Yea

[ebon notch]

by wikipedia

[gloomy knoll]

aye dios mio

[gusty mirage]

it took us 20 pulls for the chains to stop yelling at each other

[arctic hare]

That hurts my soul

[gusty mirage]

ranged brains

buncha entitled babies

[slow marsh]

same

my ranged kinda suck

[arctic hare]

Hunters?

[slow marsh]

feelsbad

[gusty mirage]

not one surprisingly

[hollow river]

Diez amigos estupida

[arctic hare]

Wow

Thats kinda impressive

[gusty mirage]

but a spriest who's literally the embodiment of griefing

[arctic hare]

Why not kick him from raid group?

[gusty mirage]

ask Esra he saw the logs

[gloomy knoll]

yea

was painful

lmao

[gusty mirage]

we're still recruiting

[ebon notch]

its actually so rough to keep changing comp on PS

[hollow river]

Bro ours still yell at each other LOL

[ebon notch]

we did it like 8 times

[arctic hare]

Oh

[ebon notch]

and we really suffered for it

[gloomy knoll]

oxi being held hostage by e-terrorists

[arctic hare]

I haven't done higher than normal so

[ebon notch]

but we had no choice cause people were sick/on holiday

[hollow river]

It doesn’t matter which marker u go to just go to a marker11!1!!!!1!1!111

[gusty mirage]

BUT I'M DIAMOND

UR CIRCLE WTF

we wipe

[hollow river]

LOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLKLKLKKK

[gusty mirage]

RL: "Are you guys fucking kidding me?"

[ebon notch]

bro one of our attempts ended short because our fire mage WAS HARDCASTING PYRO IN P3 AND DIDNT MOVE BACKWARDS

the entire discord

fucking erupted

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[ebon notch]

ive never seen so many people so angry

[gusty mirage]

here let me share my shame with you guys

https://clips.twitch.tv/DarlingAdventurousPhoneHotPokket-qlwiCjsDYhiaoShi

enjoy that clip

[hollow river]

Bro all they have to do is move 4 squares back

How hard is that

[gusty mirage]

idk how hard is it to not slowly back pedal off the platform?

[ebon notch]

ATYAYAYYAYAHHAHAHAHAHA#]

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[hollow river]

I’ve done the same once except I strafed off

[ebon notch]

@gusty mirage are u ok my dud

did you recover

[gusty mirage]

we killed it 3 pulls later

that was a 2% pull

[kind talon]

LMAOOOOOOO

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

that is a goated clip man

love it

[ebon notch]

only time i ever fell off was when i reached the square before the edge and instantly dropped frames

[kind talon]

@gusty mirage imagine not responding to my dm tho

cringe

[ebon notch]

and just couldnt stop myself from walking off

[kind talon]

[gusty mirage]

bruh you sent me the DM at like 3am

tf

[hollow river]

Lmfao

[kind talon]

[gusty mirage]

on a weekday

[kind talon]

it was like

8 pm

lmao

[hollow river]

Dude so everyone here back pedals the balls right?

[kind talon]

[kind talon]

ya

[ebon notch]

i dont hit them

[hollow river]

Because I got flamed for having back pedal unbound

In here

[gusty mirage]

yea you need to have it bound for that fight

[full tendon]

daps doesn't do anything that isn't the boss

[hollow river]

But my@whole raid says unbind pedal

And strafe balls

[ebon notch]

who are you and how do you know me so well

[gusty mirage]

yeah I tried that

I ran right off the platform

never againm

[full tendon]

Because you've said it several times today

[ebon notch]

yes

[full tendon]

For different fights

[ebon notch]

only hit boss

[full tendon]

That you don't ever swap

[ebon notch]

but my raid leader gave me permission

so thats why i do it

[hollow river]

That’s what I figured I’d do so I don’t. Pedal is plenty fast enough

[ebon notch]

i just rupture the ball then fuck off from it

until p3 where i have to hit boss or i die

no ball imean

not boss

boss bad in p3

[hollow river]

I’ve been playing both sub and sin while progging pain

[full tendon]

Lol

[gloomy knoll]

backpedal masta

[hollow river]

When I play sub I just storm balls and funnel evis on the boss

[ebon notch]

sub is hella fun on pain with shuriken tornado

just perma funnel

[hollow river]

It is

Yep

But my dps is trash

Idk why

[ebon notch]

watching yourself climb details cause you pad on everything that moves

[hollow river]

My CD usage is good for the most part I checked

[ebon notch]

did you have unholy set equipped

[hollow river]

I think frost sub just bad

[ebon notch]

i forgot for the first few attempts

[hollow river]

For pain

[full tendon]

brb gonna bonedust brew balls next pain

[ebon notch]

did you just say frost sub

[hollow river]

My UH and blood are r1

[full tendon]

Why is frost sub bad btw?

[hollow river]

I have enough embers for r4

[ebon notch]

just dont play sub bruh

[hollow river]

It’s usually fine

On all other fights

[full tendon]

Seems good for outlaw, sad it isn't good for sub

[hollow river]

I need to check logs and see if I’m losing frost procs

To dead balls or something

[ebon notch]

you can check details

look at enemy damage taken

and check ball damage

i rarely have a hit on the balls tbh

[hollow river]

No I mean like

When your last crit is on a ball that’s already gonezo

You lose that proc iirc?

[ebon notch]

if the ball is dead

it wont target it

it will target the next crit target

which would hopefully be the boss

[hollow river]

Oh so it doesnt waste procs?

[ebon notch]

i mean it depends on when your proc is going to go off right

if it goes off and the balls are half way across the platform

it can very easily target one if you get unlucky

or if you're spamming fok

but if they reach the end and disappear

the set can only proc a target thats alive

so itll hit the boss

[hollow river]

Right

And ALL ball damage shows on details correct?

[ebon notch]

yeah details doesnt filter

[hollow river]

Not just the first one you kill like WCL

[ebon notch]

the logs do tho

[hollow river]

Right

[plush garnet]

Is there a list somewhere for best tarra powers?

for us dashing frost boys?

[ebon notch]

lumbering

elethium

huddled

then the venom or poison one that gives 25% dam

[zinc frost]

The dream

[plush garnet]

really elethium?

like elethium diffuser? I thought taht was like a tank thing

[balmy condor]

elethium weights

[plush garnet]

Oh that makes sense

[kind talon]

poison gland

[ebon notch]

@plush garnet what he said

[limpid willow]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[proper pendant]

one day ill get an actual loot drop

from Sod

who knows when

but 20 bosses no loot

big pog

needing to rely on vault

sadge

[ebon notch]

it be like that bro

at least you havent looted 6 kt trinkets like i have

[cerulean raft]

would the new opener then be: mut-snd-mut-gar-flag-rupt-shiv-vanish-mut-env-mfd-env?

[balmy condor]

yes

[cerulean raft]

what do i do when my mut after vanish doesnt crit and i end up on 3/4 cp?

and where should i use potion?

[balmy condor]

if it ends up on 4 you finish

if it ends up on 3, finish anyways I guess idk, that's some giga unlucky shit if that happens

[cerulean raft]

4 with deeper strats i meant. but yeh

[balmy condor]

you wouldn't have deeper strat

cause you're running mfd

[cerulean raft]

ah lol sure

and potion? with flag?

[balmy condor]

doesn't really matter

probably potion with vendetta is fine

[cerulean raft]

thanks 🙂

[brazen zodiac]

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

[torn atlas]

Mfd off GCD right?

[slow marsh]

unless flag is in 15

and i think if you can fit it in shiv its ideal but prolly not that important or worth holding for

[brazen zodiac]

all rogue league of legends team

lets go

[balmy condor]

You’d be correct

Everything I tested was neutral or worse

So just on cooldown, hold for flag

Works great

[slow marsh]

Well yeah I played it all night and didn't feel off at all. Can feel the difference in the opener vs vigor of course but once you actually get going it's fine

[oak sky]

agreed

[terse talon]

Why mfd in MA-window?

[oak sky]

im actually kind of unsure too i figured at first that more generation is better

[balmy condor]

Because it’s more damage to get it on cooldown and send another envenom

[arctic walrus]

speaking of that

[balmy condor]

Could mfd after the ma

Probably fine

[arctic walrus]

is it actually better for shiv van mut rather than vanish env

[balmy condor]

It’s too minuscule a difference to matter

[arctic walrus]

the mfd thing or my thing

[balmy condor]

Both

[arctic walrus]

both tbh

yea

lol

[balmy condor]

Oh no I mfd’d 2 seconds later my parse

[arctic walrus]

to be fair

that is my mindset

[balmy condor]

Need to evolve mindsets then

Escape the torment friend

[arctic walrus]

missed 1 reset of mfd

my parse

not having a wind walker debuff

I sleep

[deft obsidian]

@balmy condor Probably been asked 101 times but i'm only catching up, this MFD change is live in SIMC? I noticed an advanced sim earlier

[balmy condor]

It is not

[arctic walrus]

i refrain

[balmy condor]

Will be in the next 2-3 days

[oak sky]

good to know its negligible

ty 🙂

[balmy condor]

I’ve simmed vanish env and vanish mut and mfd during ma and mfd after ma

And all of it is like 3 dps difference

[oak sky]

i figured you did

idk why i even said anything

[balmy condor]

Like I would have to triple the accuracy

Of sims

To find out which is truly better

[arctic walrus]

so what you're saying is

you know there's a right answer

but you are abstaining to telling the truth to these people

[oak sky]

consistent messaging will help people improve more

[arctic walrus]

now I have to work on making master poisoner better than ep

[oak sky]

lets go

cant wait for master poisoner nighstalker mfd exsang hidden blades prey on the weak strats

thats out of order

[balmy condor]

Good luck

I made it work during beta before they crushed lethal poisons into the dirt

120% lethal poison

Any rememberers

[oak sky]

nope

[deft obsidian]

Thank you kindly sir

[fallen arch]

But I don’t want to play mfd

[arctic walrus]

[fallen arch]

I’ll stay necro, no biggie

[hollow escarp]

if our pull timer was 5 sec longer I could mfd slice prepull and still have it for MA window

[fallen arch]

Ask for longer pull timer

[hollow escarp]

yeah, so I can mess up opener and garrote in MA window

[fallen arch]

Hehe

[soft shale]

friendly reminder that mfd for assa is 60s cd

[oak sky]

not really

[balmy condor]

??????

Maybe in wod my guy

[soft shale]

ahaha no one falling for the bait

that is sad

[dawn ivy]

do we delay vendetta at all for obedience

or rather vendetta for flag when you're runnig obedience. i forgot the rule

[balmy condor]

You can delay either

:)

Typically fairly safe to go 1 vend for 2 flags

[solemn plaza]

This is strictly for single target right? ep vig for any fights with adds?

[dawn ivy]

opposite

mfd gets even better when you throw adds in

[brazen zodiac]

[zinc frost]

Mfd resets for fat damage

[rotund drift]

how much mastery do i want for m+? im on 20% atm

[balmy condor]

Whatever sims highest

[dawn ivy]

is there a max time we hold vendetta, i keep finding vendetta/flag windows with 15+ seconds between them

[arctic walrus]

Kt boss damage

Yeah just hold

[balmy condor]

As Long as you don’t miss a cast

[dawn ivy]

im gonna be real with you dog i cannot do that math on the fly

[balmy condor]

Then perish

[dawn ivy]

this build is unnatural

this build would get excommunicated in the old days

[balmy condor]

Just vend+flag, flag, vend+flag, flag, vend+flag, flag

And if you get fucked you get fucked I guess

[arctic walrus]

It’s very hard to miss a cast

Unsynced sure but that’s not as big of a hit

[dawn ivy]

it just feels like im juggling so many cds that actually conflict with my brain

when i know most of them dont conflict

[arctic walrus]

If anything most go together

[dawn ivy]

or rather, there are multiple crossroads of different overlaps of these cooldowns that i still dont know what the best choice is

[arctic walrus]

U can Go look through my logs as an example

[dawn ivy]

like if shiv is up in 5, and flag/mfd is up right now, do i pop flag, and hold mfd for when shiv is up in a few seconds to get an instant envenom

[arctic walrus]

Yes

It’s just about on the fly checking your parameters

Figure out how to put the most in

[wheat lance]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[arctic walrus]

And then one you have that figured out, look for resets 🙂

[rocky pecan]

seems to be not that good on kt MM i guess

even on hc isnt that good i think

[slim jay]

whats the highest winds of winter proc you guys have gotten?

highest ive gotten that ive seen is 79k

[quasi ledge]

Remember seeing a 91k

[hollow dirge]

At r3 , which I’m still at, on soulrender mythic , 95k . Never check each pull though, but think that was among the highest if not highest

[slim jay]

yeah same boss is where i got my 79k

but im r5

[hollow dirge]

I meant r4 sry. The forbodeing one

[wooden kiln]

Hello, I just upgraded my frost set to rank 4 and I feel like it deals 0 dmg, is there any gameplay variance with the frost shards?

[soft shale]

no but the set in itselft is swingy

you can highroll crits

and then the proc itself can also crit

[wooden kiln]

So you just stack crit to the infinite? Like I have 44% now

[hollow river]

Not quite infinite, no. Just sim Top Gear to see what your best set ups are or Droptimizer to see what’s the best to target etc

[alpine garden]

There's a wa you can get to track the damagw

[empty hinge]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[proper pendant]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[proper pendant]

https://gyazo.com/d0e0c0bc1f93bdfc29effdfef3b3a79c

why the hell is the instant poison / deadly poison thing always showing

mad annoying

[fallen arch]

Cos u have it applied?

Just remove that

[frigid kestrel]

What’s the range of Winds?

[crisp sluice]

Hey I know I've read all the threads etc etc but I was just hoping for some quck personal insight - is it worth me switching off fae to another cov playing sin this tier? Like I'm in a CE guild not PUSHING or competing like crazy but is it really that much of a difference?

Like I know necro and venth are better but if the gain is totally minimal im not going to do it

[north basin]

@crisp sluicehttps://gyazo.com/f11c7b71407dadac237368d95b0f41a2

[fallen arch]

NF is the worst of the 4 covenants

Also the most boring I would say

But it’s not like you can’t be viable with it

[north basin]

at this stage any cov can kill sylv mythic.)

and not being dead weight

[crisp sluice]

thanks guys

[lean portal]

why is it better to pull with mutilate rather than ambush?

[sour wraith]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[lean portal]

ty

couldn't find that in faq sorry 😄

[red jolt]

I know guides and pins talk about legendaries, but im new to DPS and am a bit confused. Atm I have Zoldyck Insignia but isnt that a bit meh for ST? It does nothing until 30% hp, like no one on warcraftlogs is running it for raid

[rocky pecan]

it's for mm+

[red jolt]

I was considering Dashing instead as a lego for both ST/m+

[rocky pecan]

dashing /obe raid / zold mm+

or doomblade raid tho

[red jolt]

Is dashing decent enough to keep for m+ too? its gonna take a while for me to get the ash as its a new char

[rocky pecan]

if you udont have frost set t5 and enough crit for dashing

[red jolt]

Omg you need frost set and crit for dashing?

[rocky pecan]

kinda and venthyr :d

i think not sure you play dashing if necro

[red jolt]

Im venthyr but its a new char, what lego would you say go for when not minmaxed?

Maybe Obedience?

[rocky pecan]

for new char i wouuld recomend go for 235 ilvl lego

not more

time you got gear for get bis one

[red jolt]

But which one

[rocky pecan]

doom/obe raid

or zoldy if you only mm+

if you do both

do obe

[red jolt]

Thank you ❤️

[rocky pecan]

obe prolly way better than doomblade for mm+

[red jolt]

Coming from healing for 10 years this is a lot

[rocky pecan]

we are top heal with frost set tho as roguue so

nothing will change for you XD

[red jolt]

xd

Kek

[gusty mirage]

dashing sucks for m+

if you're venthyr you can just craft obedience which is a good jack of all trades legendary

[red jolt]

Exactly what I want

Thanks for input

[gusty mirage]

np ❤️

plus you can use it for outlaw (not ideal but still okay) and sub (BiS)

[red jolt]

ASS ASS all the way

But good point

[rocky pecan]

ok cauz if you uwanted multi spec better do crit vers i think idk if it's the case actually or was just earlier in patch

[gusty mirage]

nah I'd still do crit/vers

good for all 3 specs even though it's not "ideal" for sin ST

[rocky pecan]

well it's something llike 35 hast with 235 ilvl not that much loose tho

[gusty mirage]

yea at 262 I think its 47?

so not that big of a deal

[rocky pecan]

y 47

[shrewd helm]

You should be frost set no matter what unless playing sub

[brazen zodiac]

u def should idk if anyone else said that

that is if u actually care about dps and shit like that! otherwise stay playing what u like king!

if i wasnt so fixated on doing the most and CE focused id def be NF especially with those sick ass soulshapes comin in next patch

i wish they had diff recolors or animations for door of shadows or somethin

[frosty cobalt]

for venth it says to go Nadia but theo is simming higher atm. Do I still stay with her or "trust the sims"

[brazen zodiac]

theo simming higher? damn

[frosty cobalt]

prob cayuse of the Enhanced con

[brazen zodiac]

idk how o sim theo properly with the 4 diff possibilties

yeah for sure

[frosty cobalt]

also could be cause I have a lot of vers crit gear because I might be switching from sub to sin and stats are not the best atm for sin

[rocky pecan]

well actually stat as sin it's almost crit >crit >crit>hast

so youur stat are prolly fine

[frosty cobalt]

i had to turn vers into haste

crit atm is 39%

[rocky pecan]

not that much but well playing frost set ?

[frosty cobalt]

rank 4 atm frost so that is nice

[rocky pecan]

or since you where suub you prolly play blood

ok ok

[frosty cobalt]

yeah was ranking blood to 5 but uped frost instead

[stray mural]

As long as every piece of gear has crit on it I’m sure you’ll be like relatively okay

[shrewd helm]

That’s actually low. Generally you want 40-45% depending on what your sim says.

[thorny lion]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[frosty cobalt]

true it is a work in prog

[indigo mulch]

Great now i have to make a crit/haste obe aswell 😢

sadge

oh wait whispy's sim is using crit/vers one

[brazen zodiac]

[balmy condor]

I have the bag gear copied from when I did sub sims during beta

[indigo mulch]

D:

[balmy condor]

It’s one stat on one item that might be slightly suboptimal

You’ll live

[exotic hare]

how the f can i get ds lego if noone does CN anymore :p

ffs

[drifting cloud]

you can buy a random legendary for 2 or 3 different currencies

[exotic hare]

where?

[full tide]

I did LFR CN a couple resets ago to get an alt their legendary

[exotic hare]

ok good idea

[drifting cloud]

but yeah you dont need ds as assa anyways

and you buy the legos in order hall or korthia but dont remember what they cost

[exotic hare]

isnt dashing + frost bis for sin

[drifting cloud]

oh ds as in dashing 🤣

[exotic hare]

yea

[drifting cloud]

usually people mean deathly shadows when they type ds as a lego

but yeah same thing applies

atleast for obtaining it, be prepared the lfr queue might not pop up at all just have to be lucky

[exotic hare]

i got lfr queue in 1min

haha

[pure moth]

Says the sub player lol. Ds for sin is dashing

[drifting cloud]

if you say so

[slow marsh]

DS is deeper or dashing depending on context

[ebon notch]

ok mfd obed on sylvanas prog is

a little bit too muchfor me

rn

LMAO

[fallen arch]

^

[north basin]

started to play mfd and obed in mythic+ . 9k overall in theatre 18. iam impressed, to give some context, was doing 7.5-8k max with assa and sub there )

[alpine garden]

Does shadowstep for remnant still have the no path found thing if you get knocked off platform?

[winter vapor]

how many/when are people fitting vendetta in for heroic Sylv?

[alpine garden]

I was doing pull, end of p1, summoner/judge platform, platform 2/3 with bloodlust

[winter vapor]

thanks

[slow marsh]

Yes

You have to hit it immediately when mass goes off and make sure you're not too close to the edge or you go bye bye

[ebon notch]

or tell your raid to step back a little

so you are further from the edge

[frosty bridge]

Wait do we take MfD now?

Where do I read up on usage

:o

[arctic walrus]

in the same pin

[ebon thorn]

yooo

<- double sylvanas user No-more grey parser

[vestal wren]

gz

[frosty bridge]

Can we sim the MfD change already?

[ebon notch]

been simmed by whispyr

[gleaming eagle]

whats the average ilvl in game now for retail?

[slow marsh]

you can copy paste the apl in the pinned sim and sim it that way

just make sure you have mfd when you sim it

[frosty bridge]

Cheers

[ebon thorn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/csEMCLjhmio3FJRrAbcnPj

shouldve never went necro...

[gleaming eagle]

oh shit ppl at 254 ilvl now

dam lol

[slow marsh]

that's not average though

[eternal portal]

killed painsmith and guardian myth today and got fusion amp..what a day...what a day

[ebon thorn]

dont think

that's average no

average if you dont have raid on farm is prolly 240-245~

[slow marsh]

na that's not average lol. that's average for CE maybe

I think most average CE guilds are on painsmith right now still

[plain thistle]

255 isnt average even for 10/10m guilds

[ebon thorn]

praying i get chest/Shoulders to increase it on wednesday

[slow marsh]

just saying if i had those daggers i would destroy everything in sight

[fallen ginkgo]

starting sylvanas progress tomorrow. Currently Necro Assa - to the ppl who have killed Sylvanas already. Does Venthyr feel alot better? I would consider swapping Covenant. All feedback welcome 🙂

[cobalt pelican]

prolly worth changing if you don't mind the effort

[slow marsh]

Venthyr is pulling farther and farther ahead with more optimizations but necro still wins the pad game if played correctly

[gleaming eagle]

ah 240

[fallen ginkgo]

Yea Necro felt really good on KT cause you can just get combo Points from afar

[placid pagoda]

Hold up so obe now looking like the play for ST vent with MFD??

[slow marsh]

yeah it was already just 50 behind

now its like 50 ahead

nbd

[viscid spear]

So what would the opener be with MFD?

[slow marsh]

normal opener and mfd after your first envenom in vanish ma window

during flag

[viscid spear]

Kk i see

Then just use it between Vanishs and always use it when Vanish is up

[slow marsh]

use it on cd and hold it for up to 15 seconds for flag

so opener is mut, snd, mut, gar, flag, rup, shiv, vanish, mut, envenom, mfd, envenom

[rocky pecan]

Mfd is ahead for you ice?

It's - 12 for me actually

[versed mica]

@rocky pecan check latest pins

[slow marsh]

Yeah it's ahead by a bit over 50

[green ledge]

is this with a crit haste obedience? cus my crit verse obedience sims at a 37 dps loss

[dawn ivy]

raidbots is not updated

[hollow escarp]

mfd simmed better than vigor for me even before these findings

that was like 1 week ago

[frosty bridge]

Would we still play Frost set even with MFD Obedience?

[versed mica]

Yes

[shrewd helm]

i havent made obedience yet. what stats should I put on it if I play both sub and sin

[full tide]

Currently equipped (top gear) is Dashing

cloak shown there is Obe

[shrewd helm]

Obe hasnt been updated I dont think

[full tide]

It'll be interesting to see when the sims are updated how much this changes for me

[frosty bridge]

Would this close the gap between Unholy and Frost a little? I really hate myself for going full on for unholy

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure it's not on simc, I guess Whispyr would have updated the pin post about it

[full tide]

It's not in simc yet

Whispyr said earlier 2-3 days

[shrewd helm]

no

[full tide]

I just ran a sim cause @hollow escarp mentioned MfD already being better

[frosty bridge]

Then i am doomed

[full tide]

was curious

[hollow escarp]

it was marginal difference anyway

[drifting cloud]

set buffs were longer ago than it takes to get a r5 set from 0 how are you doomed

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I was 1 shard rank away from r5 unholy when frost was buffed, there were enough embers each week to get 2 full r5 sets by now

[frosty bridge]

I mean, i sim a solid 10200 as Sin unholy

But i took a break from the game

And looking for an excuse to play Sin over Sub which sims 11200+ etc

Since honestly man i enjoy Sin more :<

Just play sin dumbass

True

[solemn plaza]

lol

[hollow escarp]

all 3 rogue specs are strong now

play whatever you enjoy

[frosty bridge]

I know, i just hate not having things optimized to the maximum

[hollow escarp]

why not play venthyr boomie then?

[frosty bridge]

It’s like a thorn in my eye

LE

l

Very true I guess

[full tide]

If you enjoy Sin more, you'll do more damage playing it cause you'll care more. You'll put in more effort to improve at it than you will Sub if you're sat there wishing you were Sin

ez

[frosty bridge]

I pump suck on both equally

but you are right

[gusty mirage]

just suck at all 3 specs like me

[frosty bridge]

I need to learn to int on Outlaw in raid too

[arctic walrus]

MFD Optimization is NOT implemented under nightly. Give it a day or two for the sims to properly reflect the changes. They’re in, go crazy.

[arctic walrus]

yall ask too much

[hollow escarp]

good call

tbf, it ain't that hard to check either

[gusty mirage]

[shrewd helm]

Crit/Vers on obedience if planning to play both sin/sub or crit/haste?

[gusty mirage]

crit/vers so its good for all specs

[arctic walrus]

mr shadowblade why mfd no work for me it's simming within margin while being unoptimized surely this is a fault

[gusty mirage]

[full tide]

hey hey

I was just curious what it simmed pre-optimisation :P

[shrewd helm]

TY, I just swapped back to my rogue (while casually playing it in normal/heroic) and trying to get my leggos caught up

[gusty mirage]

np

[shrewd helm]

dumb question but how bad is obedience for mplus?

as sub

[full tide]

It's what most people prefer

even if Finality is slightly ahead in dslice

[hollow escarp]

it's pretty good, but not the correct channel for that

[gusty mirage]

I run obe primarily as sub in m+

[shrewd helm]

ok cool

[gusty mirage]

for what its worth I run it for assa in m+ too

[frosty bridge]

Always Obe in M*

As Sub

It’s too bonkers

[shrewd helm]

my leggos are all over the place atm so trying to get this mess cleaned up is crazy

[soft shale]

you can run mfd obe as assa in m+ too i guess

[frosty bridge]

Does Sin still run Zoldyck in M+?

[spice spire]

What’s the meaning of life, Papa Vel?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[frosty bridge]

Wish we still had the sims pinned

Most of it got removed woth the faq channels

[hollow escarp]

uhm

[arctic walrus]

cocaine

[spice spire]

Sick

[shrewd helm]

I wish we could vendor old leggos to get the ash back

im assuming obedience on cloak

[full tendon]

You will be able to in 9.1.5

[shrewd helm]

I have 2 doomblade leggos an akaari on head just taking space :/

[hollow river]

Same

And old celerity and MA lmao

[ebon notch]

dashing mfd feels hella good on sylvanas tho

[hollow river]

1 doomblade will be useful after 9.1.5 though

[ebon notch]

obed felt a little bit too slow

[hollow river]

For swapping necro 🙂

[ebon notch]

personally

[hollow river]

I haven’t tried mfd yet at all

[ebon notch]

its fun

make sure you have mfd macro set up

[hollow river]

Fishing for resets on anything you can I assume

[ebon notch]

not constantly

[hollow river]

Which macro

Focus?

[ebon notch]

nah mouseover

[hollow river]

Ah ye

[ebon notch]

just learning when to hold mfd so you can reset on certain adds/arrows

takes a few pulls

[hollow river]

Does that change your actual targeted enemy in game?

[ebon notch]

no

[hollow river]

Kk jw

Never really messed with mouseovers

I tried to use mouse over for SBS just not my style I guess

Mfd will be a lil less intensive tho

[shrewd helm]

why would I swap necro?

[hollow river]

Because free covenant swaps

Necro for cleave or m+

[shrewd helm]

I have necro at like 55 I think lol

wasnt a super fan

[hollow river]

Mines at 40 still

I loved it

Just like raiding as sub too

[ebon notch]

its janky at first

but once you get used to it

actual dps increase

[hollow river]

Hell yeah

Mfd painsmith balls?

[ebon notch]

yh for sure

[hollow river]

Including intermission for free slice n dice

Poggers

Painsmith dies this coming week boys