assassination

[cobalt pelican]

should show like this

[bleak sky]

yupriest was yeeted, zashar was yeeted

[cobalt pelican]

do you know which one failed if any from this image?

ok

[drifting cloud]

hehe priest

[drifting cloud]

dispelling priest must alwasy be inner

if he gets malevolence

[bleak sky]

oh

[ebon notch]

[bleak sky]

pally was yeeted still, I'm guessing that wa has the values swapped around?

[cobalt pelican]

i don't think so but it's hard to tell without the replay

afaik bigwigs actually applies marks based on guid if it can, so in most cases it's orange -> star in the dispel order

but one of them is randomly backwards for you and idk why

i also don't know if that's 100% truth

(besides the priest instance which is explainable)

[bleak sky]

was a fun try tho

[cobalt pelican]

dw next week

they will forget this happened

get them to install rylers malware

never fails 100% success rate

[drifting cloud]

tnx for the bitcoin

[ruby oyster]

for my guild ert was messing up mark orders on remnant

[misty edge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jyFfT8NhAQa9Vmv2#fight=last&type=damage-done

If anyone wanted to go over this im still sucking ass as sin 😦

I am scrapbooker as you would assume lol

[echo geyser]

does that mean u dont have to face a certain way?

[arctic walrus]

@cobalt pelican hey

i have request

[cobalt pelican]

uwu

what can i do for you

[drifting cloud]

outer guy has to look out, inner guy can do whatever

[hollow escarp]

so Malevolence is still based on GUID?

[echo geyser]

ok cool ty

[echo geyser]

[hollow escarp]

I'm gonna install it though

[arctic walrus]

some apl thingies

pertaining to mfd and it being used to prepull > snd, I believe it to be slightly better than what it currently sims for

[cobalt pelican]

for sin raid?

[arctic walrus]

sin venthyr ya

[cobalt pelican]

so you want it to.. not use prepull and use in flag i guess?

[arctic walrus]

[echo geyser]

[arctic walrus]

not even just prio in flag

literally just

not waste 1 cast on a 5 cp snd

also it desyncs it to wehre it actually would naturally line up better with cds

[severe sparrow]

for remnant, do you have to shadowstep while over the platform still if youre being knocked? im feeling like it's a yes but

[echo geyser]

yes

if ur outside the platform itll say like "no path available"

[severe sparrow]

yeah that's what i was feeling. ugh.

guess ill just back up a lil

[echo geyser]

if u think its knocking u too fast u can face horizontally so u get knocked left/right instead of front/back

that was seli's hack

[halcyon zealot]

get the MD weak aura too if you dont have it, really helps with timing it

[severe sparrow]

yeah i have it. is there a vague time i should be hitting? as in, like try to aim for exactly when the md hits i assume? also, wait, facing horizontal wont fuck everyone?

[cobalt pelican]

i'll check in a min

[halcyon zealot]

idk bout the horizontal tech

[echo geyser]

i never had issues so i never tried it

just heard about it here in discord

it should just knock u that direction

not the group i assume lol

[severe sparrow]

i thought it knocked people back in the opposite direction you faced but i guess i never actually looked into it since it was never relevant

[simple holly]

So I can upgrade my first Lego this week to 262 on my rogue. Which should I upgrade for mainly m+ stuff? Zold?

[proper pendant]

dyz

@simple holly

[simple holly]

Dyz?

[soft shale]

https://www.twitch.tv/hachadino/clip/InterestingBlazingPotPeoplesChamp-bKDlHlHJKRt_iwb1?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

this is the side tech

it never failed me

[proper pendant]

@simple holly Dyz Nuts

[soft shale]

unless you're near the bridge of death

then you insta die

[severe sparrow]

dude

[simple holly]

Jesus...I think I dropped about 10 IQ from that attempt at a joke

[severe sparrow]

yeah fuck that bridge lol

[bleak sky]

[severe sparrow]

also, thanks for the proof ill give it a shot

[proper pendant]

@simple holly cant lose what u never had

[simple holly]

Are u like 12yrs old dude?

[proper pendant]

who

[simple holly]

U dude. U sound like a prepubescent giggling school kid making shite jokes

[proper pendant]

no i mean who asked

[simple holly]

Whatever dude...

[proper pendant]

[viscid spear]

KT Relic trinket good?

[lunar otter]

boys obed simin higher for m+

than zold 😦

[grand ridge]

is the CD reduced enough to use on every pull? or close to it?

I wouldn't mind something more interesting than zoldyck if the cd is reduced by a ton

[lunar otter]

ye it is ofc

give it a try

[ebon notch]

i got flashbacks from that clip

LMAO

[cobalt pelican]

@arctic walrus https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2K9kgLqwQsxdvESYhZJJ4X

not checked it yet just finished my ff14 dungeon

just with ep/mfd on your profile

[arctic walrus]

Nah no need to double check it has the right answer

So even no resets this is better than vigor

[drifting cloud]

[halcyon zealot]

wonder if you would play a bit more haste with MfD

[balmy condor]

[cobalt pelican]

that's a guy line

[nova flax]

Def play iris imo

Bote no damage

[lunar elm]

are we playing mfd now?

[arctic walrus]

Chop chop

[balmy condor]

I refuse

[arctic walrus]

this is great news

a DIRECT nerf to cev

old man fingers

[slim pebble]

If I’m going to double dip sin/sub what should I put on my leggo?

Sorry obedience

[dawn ivy]

crit/vers or crit/haste

vers isnt bad for sin and haste isnt bad for sub

[slim pebble]

My haste is sub 20% so maybe I should slap haste on it to be safe?

[dawn ivy]

give yourself a sim just to make sure, but yeah haste is a safe bet

[balmy condor]

I personally tell everyone crit/vers

[ebon notch]

@oak sky nice remnant bro

[kind talon]

@oak sky nice job on remnant

[cobalt pelican]

crit vers covers you for if you want to play m+ as sub or anything like that

[oak sky]

fuck off

[ebon notch]

HAHAHHAHAH

[echo geyser]

[oak sky]

fuck all of you

[ebon notch]

post death log

[oak sky]

im quitting wow

too close to the edge btw

im so done man

[ebon notch]

LMAOO

did you have the debuff?

[oak sky]

every pull

[kind talon]

LOL

[oak sky]

except that one

every lust on pull the boss got sucked and fucked but too many people died

[echo geyser]

this a venthyr thing only?

[indigo valley]

in p2 for sylv, what did you guys end up using vend on

[arctic walrus]

if i had to guess most likely

[ebon notch]

@oak sky did you get top 10 with that log

[oak sky]

@ebon notch i hope you never get a rank 1

literally every fucking pull except that one

went great

[ebon notch]

i can only do it with externals

[ebon notch]

im sry homie

it is how it is

[oak sky]

so tilted

raid was so shit

even that pulll

[ebon notch]

https://i.imgur.com/c9wqtZ5.png

look at my painsmith mythic

turbo dog

both pulls i got fucked on

is how it is

❤️

[oak sky]

and someone fucked up our lust on eye

so i only got a 94

and i didnt get in on 9

which i always parse well on

🙂

but at least i get to wipe the raid on painsmith

[ebon notch]

huh

[oak sky]

it was at 3:20

[ebon notch]

is that common?

[oak sky]

no

[cobalt pelican]

some people just lust last phase without any thought for what's going on

[oak sky]

it was during the last set of eyes

like

right when we got to them

shouldve been a 4 minute lust

on the dot

shit reclear day

[brazen zodiac]

daps

i did it

i finally did something

!

[ebon notch]

LETS GO DUDE

[oak sky]

so dumb man, first time i have 5th gem for easy bosses

[ebon notch]

link me the log

lemme see

[brazen zodiac]

uhh

idk where

it is

but tbh

i probs didnt do anything good im sure it was just a bad group

[ebon notch]

nah

that log is super important

cause if you can hit that

rn

then with optimisations you can hit 7.5k

100%

[brazen zodiac]

uhhh idk where it is to be honest

[ebon notch]

whats ur character name

[brazen zodiac]

iidk how to find it i mean im new to wow

badbttch

area 52

still no dagger or ring tho :/

[ebon notch]

i can link it here if you want

but if you go to your profile and click anywhere on the log itll open it

[brazen zodiac]

u can link

idc

im a badbttch

[ebon notch]

https://i.imgur.com/e8wimAl.png

you missed a pot homie

[brazen zodiac]

i smoked all of it already

fk

[ebon notch]

if you potted with ur flag you would get another

LMAO

[brazen zodiac]

potted when

oh i see

1 5 10

FUCK

i need a weakaura that says "USE YO POT BITCH"

[ebon notch]

https://i.imgur.com/oWvyD4y.png

here on this flag you can pot at the same time

[brazen zodiac]

YEAH

cap

s

[ebon notch]

also you had vendetta up 10s into lust

but you popped it at the end

oh no wait you didnt that was flag

why was that vendetta so late

OOOH i know why

you should vendetta one of the adds on the last platform

souljudge

and then flag comes back up for 2nd burn on sylvanas in p2

then you use vendetta again on first platform p3

then you save it and vendetta for lust

on 3rd platform

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gNPkfCVwcTMAD8QZ#fight=34&type=casts&source=7

here you can click off mutilate and click vendetta and flagellation and see when the casts are used and when theyre synced (at the end for lust)

@oak sky where are the healing cds for those chains btw

[oak sky]

hm?

[ebon notch]

the ones you just wiped on, what healing cds are assigned there

[oak sky]

i think one went off because someone didnt do it or something right?

[ebon notch]

no they did the first chain

and then they struggled to recover

then 2nd chain

people are like 5% hp

and then 3rd chain raid wiped

[oak sky]

darkness ashen rally invoke?

amz

[ebon notch]

ashen was used already

no amz was down

[oak sky]

unless im misreading

[ebon notch]

ashen was used on the adds just before that

[oak sky]

was that fourth set?

[ebon notch]

i cant remember

must be one of the last sets

[oak sky]

oh well

u figure it out

[ebon notch]

oo it was dustis ashen

if you recover from from those chains you kill easy

[shrewd helm]

Flag on CD or save for vendetta?

[ebon notch]

only save if ur not gonna get another cast off before the boss dies

slam on cd always outside of that

[shrewd helm]

ty

[oak sky]

@ebon notch decent pad i guess

i hate trying to parse that boss

[ebon notch]

send screenie i didnt see

yeah fuck soulrender tbh

[ebon notch]

decent tbh

when your kills get cleaner itll add 10% easy

[oak sky]

they havent been clean since i joined and i joined in the middle of the painsmith prog

[proper pendant]

anyone venthyr with anima channel rank 3 that can summon forgemaster for transmog back piece?

[oak sky]

@ebon notch dude the remnant still has me tilted

[ebon notch]

been in the same sitch bro

i just didnt press shadowstep

[oak sky]

i did

think i was too close to the edge tho

i couldve gotten closer to the other guy

i got the belt from soulrender and a serviceable parse at least

[cobalt pelican]

just save your cloak for it lol

[burnt zodiac]

Question, Elaborate planning vs Blindside which would u guys say is better overall

And on top of that currently i have my frost shards all rank 4, would doomblade be better or should i run Dashing Scoundrel, currently at 40% crit

[balmy condor]

elaborate + vigor is the go to

usually you will always run dashing

but if you're necro, there's probably a minimal difference

[burnt zodiac]

okay im currently running vigor and elaborate

im venthyr

[balmy condor]

yeh

so then dashing

[burnt zodiac]

so would obedience out damage dashing?

okay cool

[ebon notch]

you only ever wanna run blindside with deeper stratagem

and even then its for pure st bosses

with high uptime

[burnt zodiac]

okay so on tarragrue id run blind

[ebon notch]

tarragrue is a mixed bag

if you're running the power with reduced resource cost

then BS/DS for sure

[burnt zodiac]

gotcha

[ebon notch]

but otherwise ep/vigor will probably be completely fine

[burnt zodiac]

i was previously playing outlaw but fuck that

so i gotta wait another 2 weeks for my 262 leggo for assa but i can go ahead and make my 235 dashing rn

[ebon notch]

nice

[burnt zodiac]

Also with opener currently im running ambush>Slice>Vendetta>trink>pot>Flag>Mutilate>rupture>Garotte>shiv>env

that seem right?

[ebon notch]

nah dont open with ambush

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[burnt zodiac]

rlly

[ebon notch]

oh no dont do this

at all

[burnt zodiac]

Ohhhh

[ebon notch]

i dont have the screenshot handy but

[burnt zodiac]

thats why i ask

when you have it would u possibly be able to DM it to me?

so then in that case when i vanish i would use mut aswell

[ebon notch]

you wanna mut > snd > mut > garrote > flag > rupture > vendetta > shiv

[burnt zodiac]

just ambush when proccing blindside

[ebon notch]

then you mutilate up and envenom

and rinse and repeat

[burnt zodiac]

what about rup

pop rup after shiv?

[ebon notch]

fuck i knew i forgot smth

[burnt zodiac]

lol all good

[ebon notch]

after flag

you rupture

[burnt zodiac]

ok so

[wintry mica]

I got another set of the BOE pants tonight lmao

[burnt zodiac]

with that even if i get no extra combo points would i throw a rupture out at 3 CP?

or another mutilate to get to 5

[ebon notch]

you should mutilate with the crit buff from MA still being active

so theres a super high chance of you getting at least 3 cp

then you garrote to 4

[burnt zodiac]

oh true

[ebon notch]

and a 4cp rupture is fine for ur opener

[burnt zodiac]

got it

and when i refresh it do it @5 CP?

[ebon notch]

i need to go to sleep before i start typing completely incorrect shit but thats the gist of it

[wintry mica]

max-1 cp is always the rule basically

[ebon notch]

4 or 5 is ok as long as you hit the pandemic window

[burnt zodiac]

same here man i got work in 4 hours

got it

[ebon notch]

if the boss is gonna die soon then sure slap a 3 cp rupture on there so you have the uptime

[burnt zodiac]

thank u guys, people help a lot more in the Assa disc

[ebon notch]

but thats a fringe case

[burnt zodiac]

true

[ebon notch]

dw

[burnt zodiac]

got it man

thanks a lot

[ebon notch]

sit on a dummy and go through it slowly till it becomes muscle memory and ur rolling

[burnt zodiac]

for sure

thats also why i like assa/outlaw

more stablew

[ebon notch]

i found sub very stable tbh

but a bit too boring

i think outlaw is the opposite of stable hahaha

constantly rotating cds and shit

carpal tunnel simulator

[burnt zodiac]

yeah

also might sound dumb

"pandemic window"?

[wintry mica]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[ebon notch]

^^

cheers homie

[wintry mica]

id recommend getting afenars WA set

[burnt zodiac]

ok

i have afenars

[wintry mica]

it changes the color of the timers when its pandemic

[burnt zodiac]

so when it glows its in that window?

[ebon notch]

when it starts glowing

yeah

[burnt zodiac]

okay cool thats what ive been doing

[ebon notch]

thats when the pandemic window is available and you should refresh it asap

[burnt zodiac]

got it

thanks you guys im gonna head to bed

have a good night

[ebon notch]

gn homie

[glass tulip]

252 ocular over 239 salvaged fusion 🤔

I like the safety of salvaged but the extra crit is nice

[brazen zodiac]

whats a realistic way to sim IQD

i only ever get 1 decent prog or maybe two, so idk the scales or how this actually works

i only ever get to use it like twice, 3 times max, and more often its 1 proc of stats then either mana or heal

[gusty mirage]

for prog probably closer to 80% if I had to guess

but with the weakaura it's pretty close to 100% otherwise

https://wago.io/LIs5d4X7U

[wide ridge]

so, what's up with the inconsistency with that last pack before manastorm bosses in dos? sometimes they break shroud/stealth sometimes they dont

wtf is that

[brazen zodiac]

@gusty mirage is there a way to sim it advanced sims?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pRMCHfUCwtdw5GxAscajBw keep trying to see if TOG would be better than my iqd but probs not at this point

[oak sky]

@ebon notch yooooo 91 on my first painsmith kill

[gusty mirage]

ayyyy

grats man

[oak sky]

took a couple weeks to be in on the damn boss

[gusty mirage]

Pain's dead

I'm happy

[oak sky]

bro

YOOOOO

[gusty mirage]

160 pulls

[oak sky]

lets go man

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

you got it bro

hell yeah

now im actually 8/10

[ebon notch]

Gamer dude let's go

[oak sky]

instead of 7/10 no pain

[gusty mirage]

honestly

if I could go back in time

I'd rather be 7/10 with no painsmith

literally never doing that boss again

[oak sky]

like every mistake i made in the first few pulls i had fully fixed by the last 3 or so

super hype

[quaint condor]

does sin rogue have a way to snapshot their DoTs?

[sterile perch]

so im going from unholy set to frost. is frost similar where you build it up to a certain amount or is it always active and based on crits?

[slow marsh]

there is no snapshotting outside of NS talent

[balmy condor]

only the additional damage from NS/Subt, and haste snapshotting on exsang

that being said though, NS/Subt dots will still dynamically update with buffs like haste/agi/vendetta/etc

so it's not really a snapshot

it's just that dot does X% more damage

exsang snapshots haste, that's a true snapshot

but exsang is also the single worst talent you could take on the entire tree

sooo.....

[slow marsh]

we dont talk about that unless our name is cev

[balmy condor]

every 20 seconds it does the accumulated damage

[sterile perch]

gotcha

[quaint condor]

dope thanks guys!

[thin oyster]

!stats

[slow marsh]

sim yourself

[thin oyster]

Yes for sure, I'm new to rogue (playing Sub) and wanna see if it's a huge change if I want to try out assassination

[hollow river]

The builds can be pretty different regarding dom shards and legendaries

Compared to sub

[stiff tapir]

Recommend running the eye trinket 252 over 239 fusion amp for st?

I feel like they are close

[oak sky]

pretty likely that 252 eye trinket is better but as always sim yourself

[wintry mica]

Yea I think it’ll depend on how much crit they already got, since 239 amp sims a little worse than gland for me

I still want a gland just for the meme crit even if it sims lower than my totem

[oak sky]

i want guardian trinket.

tomorrow.

[wintry mica]

good luck

I know I’m not getting that shit for a long time lol

[brazen zodiac]

hi ray

[novel arrow]

@balmy condor Hi! Do you know if Zoldycks affects envenom dmg?

[balmy condor]

It does not

[novel arrow]

Ty I had to confirm for a friend 🙂 Because they refuse to believe

basically the confusion is that your mastery affects envenom and it says "Poisons and bleeds"

and so does Zoldyck saying "Poisons and Bleeds"

[proper pendant]

Do Dom sockets work outside of raid?

no right

[brazen zodiac]

yeah in dungeons but not the set

[proper pendant]

OK

[brazen zodiac]

the set doesnt but the 3 dps shards to

[proper pendant]

so for frost

[brazen zodiac]

so if theres some dom gear u wanna swap u absolutely can

i think its shard of bek, cor, and dyz

[proper pendant]

ok

ty

[fallen arch]

Ye it’s wildly inconsistent what they do and don’t count as ‘poison’

[balmy condor]

In m+ you run bek cor dyz zed and kyr

[balmy condor]

Zoldyck -> not envenom
Dashing -> envenom
Mastery -> envenom
Master poisoner -> not envenom
Trinkets and effects that say “poison”, such as flayedwing -> not buffed

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch

idk what i did

tbh

i guess titanic just op

[arctic walrus]

dont be shy show agonizer dmg

[ebon thorn]

yo @limber lion

[brazen zodiac]

pfftttttttt

i cant even fucking get one from heroic

[obtuse robin]

[brazen zodiac]

i dont even think i touched them LOL

lmfao

[obtuse robin]

speaking of shitrender

[brazen zodiac]

haha

[obtuse robin]

finally down today took fucking forever

[deft obsidian]

Could be worse : /

[brazen zodiac]

pfft

yall get blessings in ur vault wtf

[obtuse robin]

[keen dome]

[brazen zodiac]

maybe i need to stop hoping and just assume itll suck

then ill get some goodies

[deft obsidian]

I still don't have a 252 wep but taking the remnant dagger vs KT shoulders is a dps loss albeit marginal...-_-

[steel ridge]

1500 findings for me

the biggest scam is, its not even reputation, its just the currency

which i have way too much of anyway

[thin trout]

shoulders pig dps

[storm hedge]

Wait what? Envenom gets randomly counted as poison sometimes? How are we supposed to know that?

[balmy condor]

You don’t

How are you supposed to know about pandemic timers

Just how it is

[storm hedge]

Like i would never think mastery increases envenom dmg

[arctic walrus]

whispyr tells you and you take it at face value

[drowsy parcel]

when it rains it pours i guess

[proper pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/gagging-gag-gross-jim-carrey-gif-13338718

[ebon thorn]

dagger club

[frail fossil]

dunno if it'll help with that tho

[proper pendant]

[deft obsidian]

Jesus, dagger party ha

[ebon thorn]

Probably not :-)

[proper pendant]

you just doxed him

reported

asf

[frail fossil]

🤏

doing a tiny bit of trolling

[proper pendant]

[storm hedge]

@balmy condor if Envenom counts does poisoned knife count as well?

And Fan of knives?

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch

man im pissed

why havent i used this trinket before

i didnt peep it'd give me 130 fucking crit lfmao

[balmy condor]

Nop

[balmy condor]

Also Nop, but obviously the poisons they apply do

[storm hedge]

Thanks though. Any other magic spagethi code?

[balmy condor]

Uhhh

[storm hedge]

All of it right?

[arctic walrus]

[balmy condor]

EP and stuff doesn’t buff non rogue things

Like EP doesn’t work on the frost set, or trinkets

Neither does vendetta

Oh the energy gain from dashing works on poison bomb ticks

That’s a fun one

Poison bomb counts for dashing

Also counts for mastery and zoldyck, AND master poisoner

Like ya know

Expected, obviously

Game is a mess

[zinc frost]

It’s ok 9.1.5 will fix all these issues

[oak sky]

good talents

[balmy condor]

Oh internal bleeding gives energy from venomous wounds

The kidney bleed thing

Uhhhhhh

[storm hedge]

Thats a big one though.

For me at least

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’m just opening every folder in my brain about janky stuff that not everyone expects

OH

Here’s a fun one

I’ll pose it as a question

Say you take nightstalker

And you press fok/mutilate from stealth

And that fok/mutilate

Applies a poison

Nightstalker buffs the next ABILITY

So the question to you

Is the poison application nightstalker buffed or not

[storm hedge]

Well if you didnt ask me id say the posion is not buffed.

But now i think it is

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

what if its both?

[oak sky]

schrodinger's poison

[storm hedge]

Game is simulation of quantum physics

[balmy condor]

And there’s a rank 2 poison effect which blizzard fixed in 9.0.5

Very pog

[brazen zodiac]

reading that made my brain explode

cause its 4 am

[balmy condor]

Which applies poisons with a 100% rate

[brazen zodiac]

oh wtf its almost 4 am

[balmy condor]

From stealth

[storm hedge]

Pls if you ever have time make a channel about that

[brazen zodiac]

whispyr we gettin orange parses tonight baby!

[storm hedge]

Like assassination did you know or something

[oak sky]

when do we get sick talent changes like the dreadblades change

[balmy condor]

So nightstalker fok from stealth

Actually quite good

[brazen zodiac]

[balmy condor]

[brazen zodiac]

[balmy condor]

Like in m+ with nightstalker, normally you would mfd into a ct from stealth

But if you don’t run mfd, opening with a fok is actually not that much worse use of that gcd

[brazen zodiac]

silly question whats mfd

[balmy condor]

Marked for death

[brazen zodiac]

oh i have never touched that shit lmfao

[obtuse robin]

[vestal wren]

its quite popular for #outlaw and pvp

[brazen zodiac]

yeah

i've been wanting to get into pvp but idk

[balmy condor]

Oh

Uh what’s that command

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[balmy condor]

[brazen zodiac]

based

[balmy condor]

That’s also a thing

[vestal wren]

i am with whispyr, blizz should spend some time to make the game consistent

[arctic walrus]

if u want oranges that's how u get them

[vestal wren]

so you don't need to learn all the special cases

[balmy condor]

It’s terrible

Like it’s so Jank

[arctic walrus]

mfd??

[balmy condor]

No

The

[storm hedge]

I wonder if every class and spec is like that

[vestal wren]

but its jank on all rogue specs, so they got that down consistently 😛

[brazen zodiac]

lmfao

[balmy condor]

Windwalker is famously bugged and inconsistent

[arctic walrus]

it's consistent

consistently bugged

[balmy condor]

true

[obtuse robin]

yea but someimtes ww bugs is a buff

[arctic walrus]

1 bug fix gives you 300 dps from another bug caused by the fix

[storm hedge]

But thanks to this discord and @balmy condor. Without you all I wouldnt have orange and pink parses (only heroic though)

[vestal wren]

newer specs might have less problems, i would need to ask koji but i don't think dh has a lot of special things but i might be wrong on that

[storm hedge]

First tier I have orange avg.

[hollow escarp]

ww is kinda new as well if we think about it

[brazen zodiac]

dude ikr???

[vestal wren]

true kojack, but i think they added new spells/logic for dh while ww is still often based on old spells

[dry galleon]

i think its more that there abit simple in design so its not that hard to mess up interactions between abilities, its the same with survival theres not any major bugs minus 1 of our legendaries that would be bis if it wasnt so bugged

[balmy condor]

If only they had a big expansion with a bunch of class reworks where they could’ve fixed a lot of the core bugs or something

[storm hedge]

Yea but they still had that thing where they got double magic resist on vengeance in 9.0

[hollow escarp]

not a dps increase

[balmy condor]

Soulbinds are a whole nother thing

[storm hedge]

Yea true

[balmy condor]

I’m pretty sure recuperator heals even without slice

That was a thing

[vestal wren]

it does ye

[balmy condor]

Not sure it got fixed

[storm hedge]

[vestal wren]

i don't think its a big issue tho

[balmy condor]

Oh it definitely isn’t

[storm hedge]

Yea you have almost 100% uptime anyway

[balmy condor]

It’s just hilarious

[vestal wren]

because you will have snd up most of the time, so i don't think it rly needs to be fixed

at least very low priority

[balmy condor]

@storm hedge you know the unholy domination gem, zed? Unholy aura on helpful abilities thing

[storm hedge]

Got it on cause not enough crit

[balmy condor]

Does it proc on abilities you cast on yourself? And if yes, which of these proc it:
A) Vial
B) Tricks
C) Cloak
D) Leech healing you
E) recup/anima sphere/other soulbind heals
F) all of the above

[drowsy parcel]

slice heals even without the recouperator conduit, but the heal is 0

still procs some things

very jank

[storm hedge]

A and F would be logical

[balmy condor]

It’s indeed F

[storm hedge]

A and E i mean

But F cause you asked

[balmy condor]

[storm hedge]

That self heal through tricks tho.

Value

[balmy condor]

It still has a 1 min cooldown tho so no crazy uptime

[storm hedge]

Gotta get that crit for frost set

[terse talon]

so I got hold of 252 titanic... should I now befriend a healer topping me up 24/7?

[balmy condor]

Oh man frost set before the hotfixes

That’s a whole other thing

[balmy condor]

It’s got high uptime without a pocket healer

[oak sky]

could check my shitty logs from today

it probably has good uptime

[balmy condor]

95-98% usually

[terse talon]

Yes its sims higher than my guardian trinket so I think im trying it out for now

[oak sky]

95% uptime on painsmith btw

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Koji said there was like 98.5% average uptime across 3 people during a full night of mythic sylv prog

Something around there

Was crazy high

[oak sky]

it should be fine until i get my guardian trinket

[jovial adder]

Is going from 41% crit to something like 48% huge while we're using the frost shards?

[oak sky]

could be

the sim tells you how good

[terse talon]

I got from 41 to 44 with r4

r5*

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

im a good little sinner

sim is always the answer

[storm hedge]

FeelsBad that i cant get into mythic raids. Im still wearing that detonating thing from tazavesh. Got lucky with phial from vault tho.

[balmy condor]

Both good

[mighty bolt]

it procs emeni pustules and sucks having to cancelaura SnD to not lose them

[obtuse robin]

[modern heart]

we back in lfr for the dagger boys 🙂

[placid pagoda]

Any reason why Dashing Scoundrel only sims 50 dps higher than my current setup? Or will i see the bonus in the WoW / Crit build regardless @limber lion @balmy condor

[ornate dawn]

How much crit do you have

[dense hamlet]

do u have rank 5 frost

[placid pagoda]

will today

[dense hamlet]

well then with good crit it should sim more

[placid pagoda]

at 44% crit

[deft obsidian]

They're all pretty close leggo wise anyways Chris, like Obe is like 24 dps behind Dashing and Doomblade is 93 dps. I'm a vent with r5/45% crit

[placid pagoda]

yeah i thought this may be the case

[stark rain]

Quick Question, is Theothar stronger this week casue 2nd empowered Potency Conduit?

[placid pagoda]

even though amp is BiS my totem is simming 50 dps higher too @deft obsidian @dense hamlet

[deft obsidian]

I assume thats a 252 totem vs 239 amp?

[placid pagoda]

amp is 239 totem is 246

[deft obsidian]

Yeh its pretty close to be fair

[dense hamlet]

yeah totem sims bit higher than 239 amp

[placid pagoda]

interesting

i like amp over totem because you have to place totem

do you know totems range?

[dense hamlet]

idk its like 50 yards or something if im not wrong

yeah its 50

[placid pagoda]

oh so its good for most raid bosses then even with movement

[stark rain]

Does Vendetta work for Totem too? Cause then its good combo

[dense hamlet]

ye

[dense hamlet]

i believe vendetta only works on rogue spells

[stark rain]

I think so too, but testing it right now.

Ok it doesnt

[dense hamlet]

yeah its rogue spells and auto attacks

[kind talon]

ye auto attack is poggers

[versed mica]

Finally got a sylv dagger-
Do the stacks increase the proc rate or the damage?

And what does stacking two sylv daggers do?

[thin coral]

Get another one and find out?

[sinful cradle]

More damage

Same procrate

[lethal magnet]

edge of night keeps eluding me, ridiculous after so many weeks of vaults + double sylv kills at least

[sinful cradle]

Ita gonna be like CN for me, getting the weapon token week before new patch

[trim pier]

How much % haste do you want for assas im m+ ?

[pseudo hamlet]

Don't think there's a special number for that. The best thing is to sim yourself 😄

[trim pier]

Im not sure if there is a maximum haste point 😅

[pseudo hamlet]

There isn't, as the stat weights vary depends of your current gear. 😄

[trim pier]

Thank u😄

[pseudo hamlet]

According to sims 239 Vers/Haste wrists + socket are better than the 246 Crit/Vers ones.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nDrGQB3TEFMvyB5nGQacSf
Pretty sure that's because of the sockets. I will be able to put the sockets into items this week(getting tier 6 - yeah I am slacker). So it's better to wait and choose something other? Such as 252 Divisible Ooze?
Got the IQD at 252 and its actually pretty good.

[spice spire]

The IDO isn’t worth it. The only upgrade you have out of the vault are the bracers since w change of talents puts you at +170 and only one thing is above that

246 phial > 252 IDO

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, simming myself with the bonus sockets with my current gear(they may be better than the one I've got from the vault). So I could maybe get the PvP ring if everything else is just lower...

[spice spire]

Yep, looks like it’s the bracers, a pvp ring, or research

[pseudo hamlet]

Sorry for the queue guys, but 5 sockets are... 5 sockets

[heavy coral]

[arctic hare]

lol

[ebon thorn]

[pseudo hamlet]

PvP ring it is then.
Better luck next week
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7tXgUvfFz45mp49n4ZFJja

[ebon thorn]

simming with bs ds

[vestal wren]

thats a lot of combinations

[ebon thorn]

yes

okay belt

i see u

[pseudo hamlet]

Was simming with EP/Vigor also, but the gear set was the same... and the difference between these two weren't that high. 😄

[ebon thorn]

yes, but remember to sim accurately

For example, things may switch and change depending if you have wft enabled, and some gear preffer other talents etc

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, that's right. That's the reason why I am usually simming like ten times(don't have premium ), just to be sure.

[ebon thorn]

Not having premium

[spice spire]

No premium

[pseudo hamlet]

I'd buy it if it wasn't a subscription. Like paying once and getting access for the whole year...

[burnt star]

The fk u have 2 259 sylv dagger... i dont even have 1 246 version despite running it every week and having 2 extra vault for heroic!

Heck i dont even have 1 252 dagger :(

[ebon thorn]

its okay

you can do better than me with 226 daggers

[pseudo hamlet]

I've got 2x Sylv dagger in a row in the vault. Wish that I could send one to you...

[limber lion]

They're all fairly close to one another. But if you use Dashing with r5 frost and build around it with Top Gear, it will pull ahead by everything else by quite a bit. Not like 200 dps, but like 50-100 dps at least.

[limber lion]

Grats!

[dapper flint]

are you me

[versed mica]

Do banshees blight stacks increase proc rate or damage? The tooltip seems unclear

[rocky pecan]

damage if im right

[small island]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/puQmmyEUEuPXQvbCLDWJfV 11k club

[limber lion]

Grats!

[rocky pecan]

I'm so far from cev sim:(

[limber lion]

I didn't get any upgrades this week :/

[rocky pecan]

It's 3 week I take catalog search xd

[pure moth]

i got a 252 dagger and kt pants to run frost.. about time

[rocky pecan]

gj dude

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p7yTF6BWQqZxbwqm3nHEbe @limber lion so far

[limber lion]

That's not bad at all

[rocky pecan]

well 600 is big

if i remember right

[limber lion]

Pretty similar to my gear, just a few pieces here and there different

Yeah around 11,750

[rocky pecan]

will not change soon extending kt then sylv so no more vault reset day (or lucky phial but well xd)

[pure moth]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/frFM1CJ4jcdNnKpv#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=48 any suggestions on KT

[tepid ridge]

is weapons ilvl that big in sin or you were just unlucky with edge Uq?

[rocky pecan]

unlucky

never saw one

but edge with my setup is only 36 dps increase not that big tho

[tepid ridge]

246 right?

[rocky pecan]

y 246

[tepid ridge]

yeah doesn't look this huge

[spice spire]

Are you going down in the phylactery?

[pure moth]

Yea

[rocky pecan]

first on boss second on phylactery isnt bad

[spice spire]

I don’t think CT is the play a.

[rocky pecan]

just need more pad

[spice spire]

Because adds are more than likely dying when you come up

So you don’t get that Yuicy pad

[rocky pecan]

you wasted some cp with mutilate tho

prolly crit on 3 cp with 3 cp already

[spice spire]

Outside of that and what U’q said, the bleed uptime is pretty low

[rocky pecan]

try to up a bit your shiv uptime that seems yu udont uuse it on cd but im maybe wrong tho

some little thing you used youur second shiv on a glacial spike who prolly died before end of your buff

[limber lion]

Hit the adds.

Like you have Glacial Spike as your highest add damage

Why are you not hitting the tank adds and the small skellyboys?

[spice spire]

Also and final thing, outside of pad more, you missed a flag cast

[limber lion]

Compare it to my casts

I was outside so aboms are the majority, but still devoted being 8% of my damage where it's 2% for you.

[rocky pecan]

i wish to be ouutside on mm

that seems more fun

[limber lion]

I'll never be outside on Mythic, unlucky.

[rocky pecan]

so i will never be outside tho 😢

devoted and the skeleton?

are*

[spice spire]

So Tl;dr mode:
Pad harder - bleeding on adds is not only more damage, but more energy regen; so there’s more than one reason for it.
If you’re going down in the phylactery, I’m not a fan of running CT, Cev can guide you better though - as this man knows all heroic fights far better than 99% of the rogues.
Your shiv timings are a bit off, a few missed will also put a damper.
Raise bleed timer - highly recommend that as a prio
And remember to only sync every cast if you won’t miss a cast of Flag.

[subtle gyro]

got a 96 parse on Heroic Nine last night 🙂

[spice spire]

king shit

[subtle gyro]

nah lol

[pure moth]

I would fok and crimson when they are up.. but dunno why otherwise.

[limber lion]

Grats!

[subtle gyro]

98 parse on the Eye. I was playing well last night

[limber lion]

Good shit

Proud of ya

[rocky pecan]

cev did you CT in phylactere after shiv windows ? or you just never use it down?

[limber lion]

Never use CT in single target with Dashing.

[rocky pecan]

got it

thanks

[limber lion]

:)

[plain thistle]

hey cev, in your opinion, for re clears, is there any reason to stop dps for painsmith? especially when playing with 1 extra healer?

I dont see a reason to do after the nerfs

@limber lion

[agile geode]

A Better phasing

[plain thistle]

pretty sure for painsmith "better phasing" means you get 1-3% hp less for p3, nothing else

or for healer/dps CDs

I dont see any logs holding dps anymore, because It doesn't seems relevant after the nerfs

[limber lion]

Definitely not

There is no point to ever stop dps on Painsmith.

You push as much as you can, as fast as you can.

[spice spire]

[plain thistle]

yeah, thats what I tought

[pure walrus]

hey guys, do you use guardian trinket on cd or do you line it up with a cd?

[spice spire]

Use on CD

[quaint carbon]

i know it dont really work like that but.. i there a level of crit that becomes "too much" ? (dashing/frost)

[plain thistle]

kinda yes, once you get a lot of crit haste will probably become better for you, only way to find out is simming

for my character that happened once I got to 47-48% crit, at that point haste was a couple decimal points ahead, but crit was still good

[quaint carbon]

okay okay, ima keep simming im still around 40%

[subtle gyro]

lines up with Vendetta perfectly. Sync em and forget about it imo.

[charred wraith]

what

[alpine latch]

But a sweaty 6/10M guild told me that the only way to kill Mythic Painsmith was to hold DPS so CDs would come up by time he lands in the next phase ... /s

[charred wraith]

how do they align perfectly and why even bother syncing

[alpine latch]

Fuck if I know

I saw a YT video of some dude crying about it

He's a big YT dude, but to me he seemed like a roided out e-bro with anger issues

[pure walrus]

one is 1.3 minutes cd and the other is 1.5 minutes, did i miss something about syncing up both of them?

[mossy crown]

zoldyck for m+, correct?

[zinc frost]

Yes or obedience if venth

[alpine latch]

Obe is typically close but Zoldyck beats it. However if you're only crafting 1 legendary the entire patch then Obe is the right call.

[pure walrus]

what about dashing? isnt dashing good?

[alpine latch]

Obe is a solid overall legendary for all game modes

[hollow escarp]

why?

[subtle gyro]

oh, ur right. wtf am i thinking lol. Mb dudes. not fully awake yet

[mossy crown]

I have them all, but looking to upgrade one of them to 262

[cunning locust]

i've seen some assa rogues running marileth in raid or m+, did it get better with gear or heirmir is still bis? can't sim now because i'm still venth but coming back to necrobois soon

[alpine latch]

No clue, honestly. Dashing is only like 35 DPS better than Obe for me in ST so it's not even on my radar to craft.

[hollow escarp]

you can sim, just unlock all soulbinds

and conduits if you want to add sudden fractures

[spice spire]

[cunning locust]

i'm using free raidbots, so i cant compare all

[vestal chasm]

We still sim with BS/DS, right?

[zinc frost]

Zoldyck sims a little bit more for me, but I prefer the play style of obedience in keys. They are close enough to make it viable

[random fossil]

chads

[cold rampart]

guardian heroic trinket > deathgrasp 252?

[random fossil]

do we hold guardian trinket for vendetta

or slam that bitch on cd

[spice spire]

Sim it, it did not do it for me

[violet jackal]

On cool down

[random fossil]

nice

[swift sigil]

Anyone got a quick opener seq? looking at icy but Im pretty sure that not what is opt

[plain thistle]

vendetta doesnt work on trinket

[untold nest]

The big guilds were stoppin dps on prog to have 3 mins of boomies up for every phase.

U shouldnt need to do that atm

[shrewd night]

And that was prenerf so

[hollow escarp]

^^

[untold nest]

Also they didnt have 20 ppl with r5 sets at that time

[hollow river]

Imo you sim with the talents you’re going to use, or run two sims. One for bs/ds and one for ep/vig

I only use bs/ds for guardian so I typically do my sims with ep/vig. And do a bs/ds every once n a while

[cold rampart]

which stat do we go for?

[hollow river]

We don’t stack any stats.

[hollow escarp]

whatever top gear tells us

[hollow river]

We sim Top Gear

[cold rampart]

top gear or stat weight?

[hollow river]

Top gear

[night leaf]

tg

[cold rampart]

how can top gear tell me

if i only have the equipped gear in my bag

[hollow river]

Top gear tells you what items are best to use

It sees all gear in your bags

And vault

Stats weights change with literally every piece of gear you change

Top gear can tell you exactly what pieces to put in every slot for the best results

[ebon notch]

sorry dude i passed out

you're hardcore gaming now

[plain thistle]

you will, generally speaking, focus on crit/haste

but you should always use top gear to sim every piece you get, because ilvl is also super important

[dense hamlet]

whats the drop rate of edge of night

[alpine latch]

@limber lion @sand sigil In your guys experience, how many bosses in Mythic are easier than Heroic Sylvanas when it comes to mechanics?

[hollow river]

0.001

[hollow river]

Imo first 3

[buoyant fossil]

I don't know where everyone is getting so much crit from. I'm running something like 27% crit and 29% haste. Then you guys are talking like 40%+ crit and I'm like ...
All my sims keep telling me to go r5 unholy with current gear due to lack of crit :/

[plain thistle]

raid gear has a lot of crit

[buoyant fossil]

Maybe I've been unlucky, I primarily raid and do like 1 +15 m+ a week for higher ilevel

[hollow river]

If only the bosses would actually drop loot

[buoyant fossil]

unless +10 overall ilevel gives you a huge bump in secondary stats that I'm unaware of

[alpine latch]

https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Krymoore -- I'm rocking 9 crit items, all from raid.

On top of crit items from m+ as well

you have 5 Dom socket items that can have crit, Painsmith neck, Crit pants from Painsmith/BoE, Tarragrue bracers, Sylv ring

[plain thistle]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/azralon/Jhonwei everything except arachnid ring is from raid

47% crit

[alpine latch]

Yup. Honestly, for us raid gear is where it's at.

[bleak sun]

Phial 252 pogz

[buoyant fossil]

https://raider.io/characters/us/thrall/Khanpai What I've got raiding 90% of the time. Prioritizing ilevel > haste=crit. just unlucky

[alpine latch]

Okay, so ...

Don't run m+ that isn't Plaguefall. You more than likely need 3 items from there.

[spice spire]

Phial cípher ring and dagger

[solar dune]

should i be running phial and titanic ocular

or phial and iqd?

[alpine latch]

For me, 246 Phial and heroic Fusion Amp is basically my best trinkets I can get

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vPHSWKemVzd3aNcANbxyCo

There isn't a single +12 GV option (246 item level) that will beat my combo

Granted, this is for my character specifically - but this is where I'm getting the info from. Your character, as always, may be different.

[buoyant fossil]

Wait, so if I only run PF during the week, vault will only slot me PF items?

[spice spire]

No

[strange python]

no

[alpine latch]

No

You run PF until you get the items you need, then you boost them with valor

I ran 23 PFs in 4 days until I got my Phial

And I only thought about deleting the game twice

So that's a win in my book

[strange python]

I had to run PF x53 to get my dagger

good luck 😉

[alpine latch]

The dagger is a bit easier, honestly.

[strange python]

wasn't for me

[alpine latch]

Because the difference between PF dagger and Mists, for example, is relatively low.

[strange python]

I got phial from a guy who had it already

dagger never

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I simply mean there are comparable daggers

There isn't really a comparable trinket

[strange python]

aaah

okay

I know what you say now

[alpine latch]

Same with rings - the ToP ring is pretty strong too

[strange python]

u're right

[alpine latch]

The downside is, it's what like 2 classes that can even get Agi daggers?

So you either need to loot it yourself, or run with friends that can funnel it to you

[strange python]

exactly

just for that

I actually

I'm gonna be honest

I did not loot the dagger, had in from a randoom 252 vault XD

[buoyant fossil]

That was me last season, rarely ran m+, somehow got 226 Pox and Phial as outlaw in vault in consecutive weeks.

Used all my luck there apparently

[umbral anchor]

For this week, in m+ is better to run with Well-Placed Steel ?

[north basin]

theotar siming 10 dps better than nadjia. whats wrong with this lewl

btw theotar simming with which tea? all equallly?

[bleak sun]

Running Lashing, Lp, Pk all week for me @umbral anchor

[umbral anchor]

You running with 3 pentecy ?

I tought Dauntles Duelist will be better now since tyranical

[clever kindle]

Im starting to believe that both talents and soulbinds are mostly superfluous now, im getting nearly identical sim profiles using about 7 different talents and two soulbinds

[rocky pecan]

confort

[clever kindle]

Might also have to do with time off of bosses and mechanics making EP+Vigor smoother to play

You can also play EP/Deeper strat

or according to my recent sims you can use subterfuge

[rocky pecan]

with frost set ?

[clever kindle]

yep

[rocky pecan]

there is no way subterfuge is beter than ma

[clever kindle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dcgSiarWiV1TkZWeAfRTWX

In some setups yes it's useable without an issue

But also consider I have 47% crit with gland

[rocky pecan]

yep so subterfuuuge isnt better than ma 😒

[clever kindle]

This sim was from a few days ago and I have another that's almost complete but I can't actually run the sim I want too because it has too many variations for the package

Did you actually look at the sim or you're just saying words

[rocky pecan]

i look at sim yup

this is with ma

[clever kindle]

The difference in these two sims is one is using subterfuge and the other MA, when you're down to the point you're talking about double digit overall DPS difference that is literally non existent

[rocky pecan]

this have no sense

[clever kindle]

If you don't understand how a dps difference of 15-30 is inconsequential and is going to be based more on how you play I don't know what to tell you because that's exactly what I would lose if I swapped to Subterfuge

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8NfSnwVFoFrUPuPrgGMjVG here's an up to date sim

[rocky pecan]

idk what to say like if you think it's that irelevant just do it

it's like on sim youu loose nothing so do it

[grand ridge]

Theotar Sims probably also assume you are standing in the tubbins umbrella during its entire uptime

It's probably a bit of a sim trap

That sentence felt silly to write 😂

[cursive silo]

it also assumes you have 100% uptime when nadija procs so it's not really a sim bait

[ebon notch]

for me with crit buff theotar sims as like an 80dps increase

more so now because we got the 2nd empowered potency

[quaint carbon]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[grand ridge]

Rogues can move while doing dps though, if you get a najija proc and a boss is moving you are fine. if you get a theotar proc and you are moving you don't get any benefit

its why galecallers boon was on paper very good for rogues but not often used

well... I can say I didn't use it or see it often on WCL

at least

[lethal cliff]

sin wants frost set ye?

[grand ridge]

frost and get mostly crit and some haste for itemization

and dashing scoundrel

but sim it

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch yes!

might be joining a 6/10 mythic group too super excited

[ebon notch]

[north basin]

imagine doing mechanics while nadjia buff is up. so it can happen with theo aswell.

@grand ridge

[alpine latch]

I'm still not seeing a big bump in damage with DS at rank 5. 😦

[grand ridge]

Tbh I switched to ds and haven't been comparing legendaries

Just simming everything but the legendary pretty much... I should really get raidbots premium

the only WCL statistic where theotar shows up is normal, and it does not outperform nadjia despite having a higher sim dps

[alpine latch]

Last time I did a test DS, Obe, and Doomblade were within like 65 DPS of each other

[grand ridge]

I should craft obedience

I wanna try it in m+

[wintry mica]

obe still sims really well for me ST as well