or run triple threat
#assassination
steel ridge
ebon notch
I miss outlaw but damn does sin feel clean
steel ridge
and slash around like a rockstar
ebon notch
Except with dashing you sometimes reach a weird deadzone where you're struggling to refresh all your buffs and keep envenom buff up and pool
All at the same time
That's kinda cringe
steel ridge
what does that have to do with dashing?
willow eagle
Only zoomers play outlaw so it's fine, no pain felt from playing the spec
ebon notch
willow eagle
You got that covered with cto tho
steel ridge
helps
ebon notch
Outlaw deadzones feel worse for some reason
Maybe it's cause your bleeds and poisons on sin are still ticking for frost set
ebon notch
So if you're starved or w.e you can still get a nice 30k crit for nothing
alpine latch
Man, I'm stuck on what legendary to make on my alt.
steel ridge
sinister strike hitting for 1 cp like 10 times in a row :/
mutilate still hits for 3 most of the time
alpine latch
IDK that I'll ever get Frost to r5 so I think the play is just going Doomblade
frigid kestrel
I finally got my set to 5 yesterday, and now I’m happy. UH all sitting at R4, Frost R5, I guess I’ll work on the blood set now….. just because
alpine latch
Yeah, this is just an alt
I got AotC on it and IDK how much raiding I'll actually do
It's mostly a character to do m+ with friends on
My main is Horde but I still have a lot of friends that play Alliance
frigid kestrel
I should start working on my Horde Rogue again. The problem is it’s still necro.
spice spire
I should start working on my Horde Rogue again. The problem is it’s still necro.
I see no problem here 
alpine latch
I just took my Alliance one from Necro to Venthyr
I really like Necro, but it was fucking me up having two different soulbind abilities
I'm not good enough to do that.
shrewd helm
I just swapped to Venthyr on main rogue as well and definitely glad I did.
spice spire
Literally dead is a bit of a grandiose statement. But it is not the absolute best for any spec, no.
Literally dead is like
Venom rush and exsanguinate
karmic crystal
I think kyrian sub still likes unholy
willow eagle
Ye unholy is still balling for sub
karmic crystal
But it’s a bit of a diceroll ye
tribal obsidian
I kind of want to try sin but i feel like its more important to have two good weapons then sub
hollow river
O.o?
plain thistle
i would say its the opossite
tribal obsidian
Really
tribal obsidian
Isnt mutilate double weapon pretty important on the OH compared to sub
plain thistle
just main hand
hollow river
Sin likes good stat daggers
tribal obsidian
Hmm
hollow river
And a sylv OH depending on ilvl
willow eagle
Isn't sylv dagger like not that huge for sin?
tribal obsidian
I dunno why i can't get sin to sim very well
shrewd helm
Ye unholy is still balling for sub
Blood is better
hollow river
Yeah it’s not huge
tribal obsidian
Currently im sub with blood and lfr sylv dagger OH
hollow river
Isnt mutilate double weapon pretty important on the OH compared to sub
But sub wants 2 daggers as well
willow eagle
I recall doing a gear compare and it was like 100 dps diff
tribal obsidian
Tried simming scoundrel with max frost to see
spice spire
Post the juice @tribal obsidian
hollow river
Blood is better
Depends on the set up 😉
spice spire
tribal obsidian
Oh right i can check history
spice spire
Yessir
hollow river
Blood is better
Iirc Push got unholy to sim higher for Kyrian sub with PV or something
spice spire
Explains it 
hollow river
tribal obsidian
Yea explain why it was saying blood was better then frost at same level too
willow eagle
Is blood on sin not good?
tribal obsidian
Frost is supposed to be bis dunno resimming now even though the gear is outdated
spice spire
Still seems low 
hollow river
At 245 that’s kinda low
willow eagle
Wouldn't you want to empower lashing scars over well placed steel?
hollow river
Yeah buts that’s like ~20 dps
ember mural
blood simmed higher than frost for me but havent simmed in awhile
hollow river
Afaik
spice spire
They are
fallen arch
Ye daggers low
spice spire
But that’s still really low
fallen arch
Crap leggo
fallen arch
Whats your shards set rank?
tribal obsidian
The sim had scoundrel and frost in it so guess just need gear
hollow river
His leggo isn’t crap?
hollow river
Oof
spice spire
I removed them on replace
I’ll post updated sim shortly 
I did a few extra replacements as well
proper pendant
assassination has too many fucking legendarys and quite frankly its fuckin annoying
tribal obsidian
The gear is a bit dated as i have sylv dagger oh now
tribal obsidian
I just swapped
pure moth
assassination has too many fucking legendarys and quite frankly its fuckin annoy...
Atleast u didn't make 2 of the same leggo at 262. Lol
tribal obsidian
I was kyrian
spice spire
There’s legit like 4 legendaries tops.
hollow river
Necro master race
fallen arch
i fucking hate necro
hollow river
I was singing the same necro song at the end of 9.0.5
spice spire
Even with Doomblade, frost set will be good
spice spire
i fucking hate necro
Preference can’t really be hated on, I personally hate Kyrian rogue ability. Think there’s nothing wrong with having preference 😛
willow eagle
Resounding clarity sin rogue 
hollow river
Door of shadows is op
willow eagle
Slamming those 7cp envenoms during a shiv vendetta window
hollow river
Gonna try and use to get to the other side of balls on painsmith tmrw
Haven’t tried yet
willow eagle
Gonna have to do some kyrian simms
willow eagle
No idea yet
fallen arch
Well, for the top profiles it doesn’t
tribal obsidian
The cd reduction on repri on multi target is prob overlooked too
fallen arch
Can’t imagine why it would be better than what you run now for you?
tribal obsidian
Phone dying goodbye
fallen arch
Idk rogue sims are usually pretty on point
willow eagle
I just think it might be fun to slam 4 big envenoms during a short window
spice spire
Gonna have to do some kyrian simms
They’re already done with top profile in FAQ
Whíspyr actually cracked
willow eagle
Dashing frost looks alright
keen mantle
Is venthyr or necro stronger for Sin rogue?
keen mantle
is dashing scoundrel really a thing for single targeT?
spice spire
Yes
shrewd helm
Frost is supposed to be bis dunno resimming now even though the gear is outdated
What’s your crit at?
tribal obsidian
34
shrewd helm
Not an expert but I think you’re supposed to be close to 40% for frost sin
tribal obsidian
Ah k will keep that in mind
spice spire
Yes, the closer to 40, the better it will sim, I’m at about 38% and frost r4 just overtook r5 unholy for me
shrewd helm
My gear is up dog and I just swapped to Venthyr but im running 37% crit and rank 3 frost
I’m only 25ish renown so only have one potency slot unlocked.
spice spire
M+ talented gamer as well
buoyant kraken
Is sub or assa better for the last 3 bosses on mythic?
karmic crystal
What do you like to play more
untold nest
All rogue speccs are good. Outlaw kinda sucks for sylvanas but other than that play what you are best at. Its
karmic crystal
Assa fans will say through fogs of copium that assa is better and sub just pads
spice spire
Is sub or assa better for the last 3 bosses on mythic?
The GIGA 0.2% diff doesn’t change a thing - whatever your best at/perform better is what you should play
karmic crystal
Sub fans will say sub is better because they like to play sub and assassination is brain poison to them
spice spire
Assa fans will say through fogs of copium that assa is better and sub just pads
Ahhh yes the classic Sylvanas pad 
ornate dawn
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pXSHVLM4iaKrSi7nuntwE4
Did you mean to sim with Subterfuge and CT?
karmic crystal
But the truth is that you can pick whatever you like
There will never be a wipe because you chose one spec over the other
spice spire
^
karmic crystal
Playing assa makes you a more viable PI target for whatever that may be worth to you
spice spire
Externals are for the weak
willow eagle
All rogue speccs are good. Outlaw kinda sucks for sylvanas but other than that p...
Outlaw giga damage best sylvanas spec
shrewd helm
Did you mean to sim with Subterfuge and CT?
No lol. I’m at work and just did a quick sim
ornate dawn
You silly sausage
ebon notch
Outlaw giga damage best sylvanas spec
what is this
willow eagle
Wclog stats that don't mean much
shrewd helm
You silly sausage
Forgot I logged out after mplus last night. Was pretty beat
tribal obsidian
Surprised logs doesnt remove the small adds
spice spire
I mean they do, just not without context. Like are you doing 95? 75?
willow eagle
Sub and assa are a fair bit above on boss damage tho
dull cloak
outlaw has a higher ceiling for damage
lavish lichen
Overall or on boss you mean?
scarlet warren
not sure what he meant but ever since they buffed frost set bonus outlaw has simmed around ~150 dps higher than sin
but from what ive seen and played of it so far its not the easiest to get max value out of
who knows maybe im just shit lol
lavish lichen
Doesn’t really mean much at all
ebon notch
the deviation in terms of maximum and lowest dps for outlaw is huge tho
lavish lichen
The top 100 rogue logs on slyv boss damage have 1 single Outlaw at 79. Top 100 overall damage have like 6 outlaws. If you wanted to look at “ceiling” of each spec on that boss
thin gate
SBS only in opener and @heirmir crit proc window right?
lavish lichen
the deviation in terms of maximum and lowest dps for outlaw is huge tho
If you look at min and max sure but those are clearly outliers, in terms of st.dev it’s much lower than you’d think
ebon notch
its still far higher than sin no?
dull cloak
Overall or on boss you mean?
on boss, and you can see that in Sims and on bosses like guardian
ebon notch
im pretty sure its like a sub 1% difference at full bis gear
talking about the deviation between max and min dps
compared between the two specs
not the sim itself
wintry mica
oh then yea outlaw definitely higher variance
you can see it in all of the overalls that there are less high and low outliers for sin
its why we were one of the top dps classes for the first few weeks
if you go buy wclog data
wintry mica
yea which has a direct impact on the deviation between max and min dps right
lavish lichen
No?
We are talking about min and max assuming you are playing the spec optimally
Why would you consider the minimum from a player that doesn’t know what they are doing
wintry mica
because if you are just talking about variance when played optimally its obvious that outlaw has higher variance
ebon notch
im purely talking about sim variance
because looking at player variance is completely unreliable
wintry mica
right, the only variance purely optimal sin play has to deal with would be cp generation from seal fate, compared to rtb buffs and procs and what not, but as far as i'm aware margin of error for both sims is still 0.05%-0.1%
ebon notch
margin of error is different to deviation in dps though
wintry mica
yea but deviation in dps is mostly covered by the fact that the sim runs thousands of iterations over different timeframes
proper pendant
where?
proper pendant
no i mean where did i ask
ebon notch
@balmy condor help hes breaking the law
proper pendant
spice spire
Whispyr is asleep 
lavish lichen
yea but deviation in dps is mostly covered by the fact that the sim runs thousan...
You can see the full distribution
Its not 1%
proper pendant
wintry mica
yea the full html reports will show you dps range
it was about 1k for sin on the sim i just ran
ebon notch
yeah margin of error is literally just telling you that the specific sim in that deviation is within 0.5-1% margin of error
not that the dps is within that range
lavish lichen
My argument is more so that absolute min and max (even in sims) isn’t really relevant as those are obviously outliers
wintry mica
i mean no one plays to sim levels thats for sure
lavish lichen
I mean on average ofc not, sims don’t do any mechanics
wintry mica
the outlaw sim I just ran had a bovut 50% higher dps range over all iterations than sin
rocky pecan
No one play to sim level and no boss play like sim level tho
proper pendant
sacum does tbh he plays sin and hes p good
rocky pecan
What good mean
alpine latch
I beat my sims all of the time... Granted it's on Tarragrue, but don't be mean about it.
spice spire
I beat sims on a few fights tbh
rocky pecan
I sim myself with no weapon equipped so I beat my sim tho
proper pendant
@spice spire where?
spice spire
You can 100% do it -
spice spire
<@!226508540746006528> where?
proper pendant
spice spire
Never gonna get got king
proper pendant
sometimes u gotta get got to get the gotters
harsh lantern
I beat sim on training dummy no buffs
rocky pecan
And no set tho
spice spire
I beat sim on training dummy no buffs
Pretty big tbh
spice spire
Tbf the time in particular I’m thinking of (can’t include the nine) it was only be like 75 dps on remnant
proper pendant
run 46 of auchenai crypts and no boots
rocky pecan
Well y but it's not single target
harsh lantern
is for me 😉
red plaza
No one play to sim level and no boss play like sim level tho
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tF3HUeG3tvC7Zr4JZGZ3R2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qnwjBMm2N9JPygA8#fight=14&type=damage-done
Mythic Guardian is a 5min patchwerk fight
rocky pecan
I did only 10k4 on guardian :(
rocky pecan
On mm ?
rocky pecan
I don't think that
rocky pecan
Yep
spice spire
man mobile wcl sucks
I was born in the mobile, molded by it. Something something adopted
steel ridge
balmy condor
clever kindle
Its just essentially a spreadsheet parser theres too many columns and shit to make it look super clean
balmy condor
Ngl “spreadsheet parser” sounds like a banger insult
bleak spoke
If you hate yourself enough you can go through 5 seconds of the cast timeline at a time
It actually works on mobile somehow
balmy condor
It actually works on mobile somehow
If the list isn’t too long, and you can reach the scroll bar
Otherwise god speed
bleak spoke
brazen timber
Wish me luck in finding a second dagger today, so I can finally switch to assass from outlaw
ebon notch
balmy condor
Wish me luck in finding a second dagger today, so I can finally switch to assass...
Ass enjoyer
brazen timber
Ya got me
spice spire
pure moth
If you hate yourself enough you can go through 5 seconds of the cast timeline at...
Done that. Don't recommend it lol. I then just scroll to cd resets and check things as well. Ive since gave up on that though.. pc only
balmy condor
Legendary<:peperogue:653642566692241429>
brazen timber
If it doesn’t drop from boss
I’ve gotten one dagger in like 50 hours of keys/normal raid/etc
Makes me hate life
balmy condor
Oh no :(
brazen timber
Need sylv dagger 🙂
balmy condor
I got one dagger while farming phial
And then rolled with that until I got a 252 from nerzul last week
harsh lantern
Need sylv dagger 🙂
Gotchu
ebon notch
nerzhul dagger gamers
balmy condor
I thought PF only dropped int dagger
Nah, domina’s ooze shiv thing
harsh lantern
is PF the crit one?
balmy condor
Crit mast I think
lone wren
I can't get a 252ilvl weapon for the life of me ...but I have 2 sylv daggers now and I hate playing sub...
ebon notch
@balmy condor why do envenom crits vary so much in opener?
like im in shiv and vendetta window
balmy condor
I can't get a 252ilvl weapon for the life of me ...but I have 2 sylv daggers now...
Then don’t play sub
harsh lantern
I wish it was better tbh
ebon notch
goddamit
rocky pecan
this is how crit work ? xd
lone wren
Then don’t play sub
I don't but I can't get better weapons for outlaw and sin :(
balmy condor
There’s a 5% variance on everything
white gull
when is scoundrel better than doomblade?
brazen timber
I don't but I can't get better weapons for outlaw and sin :(
? Why not just use your daggers for sjn
Sin
balmy condor
when is scoundrel better than doomblade?
Typically with a high ranked frost set
harsh lantern
scoundrel when sim better
solid nymph
I think the threshold for me is rank 5 frost gems, at rank 4 it’s break even according to Sims
Between scoundrel/doom
wintry mica
It also depends a bit on cov, doomblade has higher value for necro
solid nymph
True, i am necro
wintry mica
when do I farm necro renown
If you are at 0 I would wait for the free level 40 in 9.1.5
harsh lantern
cool cool
wintry mica
But it’s not that bad to catch-up if you want to do it now
harsh lantern
Yeah I’ve been doing it on my alt wasn’t bad to catch up
But I haven’t touched necro on rogue yet
hollow river
Think you have to have 40 with that cov on at least one toon don’t you?
wintry mica
Nope you just have to have the cov campaign finished on at least one toon to skip it. The 40 renown thing is separate
hollow river
Ahh. true true
brazen zodiac
hi ray
brazen zodiac
Wait so if I make an alt and then do the necro campaign I can skip it on my main?
Is there like a number to reach or do you gotta complete up to max renown
ebon notch
hi vita
wintry mica
hi ray
hey!
I think you just have to finish the covenant campaign up to where it ended pre 9.1
before it sends you to korthia
fallen ginkgo
Necrolord Assa's: do you cancel aura / delay your marrowed Gemstone from Heirmir and line it up with Frost Set proc? seems too much work for that kind of min max
spice spire
Hell no lmao
whole pilot
is it even possible to cancel aura it anymore? im sure that got changed very early in the expansion
slow marsh
Yeah not worth
It's just 18%
I could see some merit if it was a MA 50% but even then I don't think it's worth
tacit wedge
When ur minmaxing so hard u start to do dps loss moves
tacit wedge
Minmaxing the min part
tacit wedge
You never mut, u just use blindside proc
spice spire
The ultimate min-min move
ebon notch
legit it takes longer
than pressing mut
for some reason
so i just fuckin spam that shit until hero drops
not like im running out of energy anyway
spice spire
tacit wedge
Where's the bait
pure moth
I wish. But unholy for life apparently
pure moth
Get me shoulders and i can lol
tacit wedge
Ur asking me too much
tacit wedge
I still have normal shoulders
pure moth
I have 236 vers, mastery ones
ebon notch
on wago you can google frost shard bonus or smth
limber lion
<@165215952479322112>
agile geode
Thanks a lot
balmy condor
willow eagle
https://wago.io/0fAUPezMx
does that wa only work in raid and torg?
doesn't seem to activate in korthia
limber lion
doesn't seem to activate in korthia
It works everywhere where the set is active.
But it only activates once you get one proc, so once every 20s
as long as you proc.
tribal mauve
How :d
tribal mauve
in raid ?
limber lion
Yes.
drifting cloud
weapon on trash? 😛
ebon garden
if i want to craft dashing, do i do crit haste or crit vers? assa only
willow eagle
crit haste
mossy crown
not a fan of mythic soulrender as sin
subtle tundra
wdym so mega fun
halcyon zealot
soulrender is a dogshit boss
regardless of spec
but you can get some fattttt envenoms on double branded overlords
thin gate
Guys i have a question about Necrolord Opener:
I open with SBS SND Muti Garrote Full CP Rupture Muti Vendetta Shiv (At this point i get the Heirmir proc where i should Vanish) But i got 42% Base Crit and hit 60% Here should i hold the vanish for after the heimir proc or just overlap it
bcs 110% crit is troll aint it
balmy condor
overlap it
spice spire
Yes
spice spire
Also 110% means no 3CP muts right? 
thin gate
yh the 3 cp hurt
and outside of heirmir i only use SBS for Cleave right
and never sbs in MA window
spice spire
For both other soulbinds you want to use them as opportune as possible. As lead by example (emeni) is an agility buff, while Kevin’s Oozeling is another damage buff that procs from sbs
thin gate
and as Heirmir only when his proc comes up (besides opener proc)
spice spire
Or to prevent overcap
thin gate
yh i c i c ty
spice spire
Which if you do with his proc, you absolutely shouldn’t hit cap
thin gate
aight ty
spice spire
Any time, best of luck papi
Also during opener proc (if you can fit it in) you’re good with dumping after the initial burst afaik
small bramble
unholy keeps siming better than frost… how much base crit do i need to make frost overtake unholy
alpine latch
Ugh, fml. I'm still torn on what leggo to make on my alt.
thin gate
im at 42% @small bramble but i think anything over 35% should be fine
spice spire
unholy keeps siming better than frost… how much base crit do i need to make fros...
No set number, it’s a multitude of factors, but it’s circa 40% for most people
thin gate
and even at 42-45% it tells me to get even more crit
spice spire
Ugh, fml. I'm still torn on what leggo to make on my alt.
Rogue alt? Covenant choice?
thin gate
i guess Obedience is good if u want ST and AOE
spice spire
Yeah I’d just send obe for m+
balmy condor
cloak it as your snapping it
mossy crown
cool cool
wintry mica
And it’s obvious but you should feint when other sets of chains are popping
ebon notch
i save cloak for bad dance
or for adds at the end
i usually feint while im mid gate
rich wren
Feint in the gate and cloak one of the ones with less raid cds on it, or just use it for dam xd
cerulean raft
guys on remnant myth, how do i play the outer bomb? my shadowstep just does not seem to work there >.<
halcyon zealot
guys on remnant myth, how do i play the outer bomb? my shadowstep just does not ...
if you don’t have it, get the weak aura that shows you when mass dispell is being cast, it makes it INFINITELY easier to time your step
cause you really don’t have much time, it has to be quick
wintry mica
also it may not be a big difference but the shadowstep range conduit is nice
cerulean raft
do i have to turn b4 step?
wintry mica
no
you just have to step before you are off the platform
if you have the WA the timing is easy
cerulean raft
you just have to step before you are off the platform
okay but thats like instant. so i just step when weakaura is done
ebon notch
make sure the boss is pulled closer to the edge of the platform
and you wanna shadowstep to the boss
makes it way easier
but like ray said you have to do it before you get off hte platform
wintry mica
yea just make sure ur in range of the boss and step when the cast bar ends
if you are too close to the edge the timing can be too tight
ebon notch
wheni explained to my raid leader that it was cancer for rogues he put me on the inside almost every time
unless we literally didnt have a choice
hunters/boomies/goblins/w.e can do it so much easier
can also get the tank to spellwarding a priest so they can grip you back on but thats a bit of a stretch
oak sky
its not bad with the md weakaura
bleak sky
tfw want to play havoc DH but RL wants to make me choose between rogue or dh
no dual character allowed
halcyon zealot
this is probably gonna ruin it for me, but all through prog and all our reclears i honestly think i’ve been choosen for the dispel like less than 10 times
haven’t had to worry about it much thankfully
cerulean raft
yeah sometimes you get kicked off the plattform, sometimes in the middle, and othertimes you just dont move at all
dry galleon
if im going to be mainly doing m+ but i run with a group that usually has alot more aoe dps wat lego should i be making as necro, dashing or zoldyck
eventually ill make both but which should be the first
halcyon zealot
zoldyck
i’d say doomblade is better than dashing in that scenario also, but i’d personally still use zoldyck
balmy condor
always zold
spice spire
always zold
Top would like a word
balmy condor
zold in top too
spice spire
Ur a mad lad
bleak sky
always zold
what about dashing? 
gusty mirage
balmy condor
dashing these nuts
gusty mirage
fallen arch
oak sky
me playing zoldyck like a good wogue
violet jackal
bloodmallet says dashing comes out ahead in hectic add cleave is that not the same as M+
oak sky
its not
bleak sky
me playing zoldyck like a good wogue
me playing obedience like a garbage rogue
vestal wren
dungeon slice is overall quite good for m+ evaluation
halcyon zealot
doesn’t it say on raidbots it’s similar to horridon from ToT or something
or is that not hectic add cleave
idk i’ve never ran a single hectic add cleave sim
lavish lichen
“Consists of a single boss target, waves of 5 adds for 15 seconds every 22 seconds, and constant moderate movement”
violet jackal
so kel thuzad
balmy condor
definitely not
cursive silo
no
balmy condor
kt has way less adds
cursive silo
kel thuzad is ST LeTroll
balmy condor
5 adds
every 22 seconds
for 15 seconds
that's 70% uptime on 6 target
lmao
more aoe than m+
lavish lichen
Yes its not great, but even dslice and patchwerk aren’t perfect yet they are still good enough for gear comparisons
You don’t need to model a scenario perfectly to make gear comparisons
Dslice starts with a ~135 second boss fight (45% of sim length), that’s certainly not representative of every dungeon
brazen zodiac
woosypr we gonna flip a coin come tomorrow and see if im getting obedience or zolk upgrade qq
balmy condor
frigid kestrel
Tomorrow is the day I get my Sylvie dagger in vault. That’s my promise
hollow river
anyone playing dashing in keys is a psychopath
I like it when you call me psycho 
Only ran it for 1 PF tho
dense hamlet
how abt ppl that play doomblade in keys 
stray mural
how abt ppl that play doomblade in keys <:PagMan:776417816357503008>
It’s not terrible on Tyrannical weeks.
dense hamlet
true
stray mural
The argument is the trash is weak enough and you’re most likely playing with two DPS that can nuke the packs on rotation
So you just double down on single target
subtle tundra
just play obedience 🙂
stray mural
Certified 
moment
dense hamlet
yeah deathspike 
zinc frost
Dashing in keys is whack, change my mind
arctic walrus
deathspike for the low key overall padding
deathspike this deathspike that, but when are we gonna get the whispyr deepfake to pad all over
balmy condor
oak sky
Zoldyck in keys 
simple holly
Sin leggos are all pretty meh. Nothing feels impactful
Guess it's better not to rely on borrowed power
balmy condor
sin relies a lot on borrowed power though
dashing + frost is like 22% of our damage
oak sky
Imagine having good talents
ebon notch
we need dreadblades from outlaw 
thorny pond
Nah, just let us... scale... hard
ebon notch
how hard? 
oak sky
Windwalker has bad scaling 
ebon notch
i wish haste was good on ww
oak sky
Doesnt matter
ebon notch
1 second fists of fury
oak sky
Only thing that matters is tuning and borrowed power tbh
ebon notch
lets see how fucked the tier sets are
oak sky
Scaling may be a thing it just doesnt matter much
I hope tier sets are ridiculous
That would be fun
ebon notch
Haste is pretty good no?
all i know is during lust with red slime buff on plaguefall
i peak at like 25k dps
ergo haste = bis tyty
slow marsh
sin relies a lot on borrowed power though
kinda true every since it's inception right
balmy condor
yeh
slow marsh
although current sin plays the most like old combat
balmy condor
legion legendaries and poison bomb, bfa was actually fairly light raid wise until the end. Shrouded was very good, double dose was pretty good
wide ridge
legion legendaries and poison bomb, bfa was actually fairly light raid wise unti...
shit i forgot about dd 
ebon notch
legion legendaries and poison bomb, bfa was actually fairly light raid wise unti...
how did legion poison bomb actually work? was it the same as now but it just hit harder?
balmy condor
it was the exact same but did damage like frost
giga rng
it either did like 5% of your damage or 15%
nothing in between
balmy condor
in legion we used to have a weakaura to announce it
ebon notch
i mean our rogue in voice chat would announce it
hed shout poison bomb proc then moan loudly
brazen zodiac
hi dapscrabbydoo
ebon notch
hi dapscrabbydoo
no u
ebon notch
thats cause its sus and discord knows it
brazen zodiac
true any picture taken from that shitty movie is sus
daps come to kt sylv skip tomorrow so u can give me a dagger
11 rogues 2 shamans pog
ebon notch
chilly marsh
what soulbind and conduits venthyr / necro rogues are using m+?
want to do a top gear with both
balmy condor
theo heirmir lashing wps lp or sf wps lp
night leaf
no poisoned katar?
night leaf
he said m+ I thought
night leaf
congrats with the promotion btw
zinc frost
you need to be in 4 target to even fok<:OMEGAKEKWMAN:858824902827573278>
I personally don’t use katar, but does it gain any value if the pulls are big and consistent? I’d assume probably no because I don’t have any issues with crit/CP generation and extra fan of knives damage seems eh
balmy condor
I personally don’t use katar, but does it gain any value if the pulls are big an...
yeh
I mean it does get better
lunar otter
Any one used scoundrel in keys ?
balmy condor
yes, and they're wrong for it
balmy condor
it doesn't even sim that well
balmy condor
lunar otter
Im only 2.3 io n not pushin hard so wanna do some meme keys for fun :D
zinc frost
I feel like deathspike is a fun leggo for a “meme” key. Used it a couple times in 15s as necro
balmy condor
yeh
thorny pond
Wait till I show you my deathspike logs as venth
chilly marsh
looks like marileth is way btter for me
oak sky
what an atrocious boss
thorny pond
Just do boss damage bud
oak sky
^
thorny pond
Yea stay top side
quasi venture
everyone will stay top side bcs KT isnt killed you still wait for cds 
Agreon isnt complaining about hc kt
quasi venture
favorite words in this game
obtuse robin
quasi venture
Holding dps is a threat to any good boss design
scenic dawn
that but boomkins and hunters just keep pumping
quasi venture
boomkins doing damage without ravenous 
scenic dawn
my hysteria window bro
quasi venture
And hunter players finding their actionbars 
scenic dawn
dw they play bm
pet bar is hidden with no keybinds
gotta open the spell book to choose passive
quasi venture
oak sky
stop dps
quasi venture
Pain
oak sky
get me out please
brazen zodiac
oak sky
yeah
brazen zodiac
will never get old
wide ridge
if you accidentally use theotar's tea while having another soulbind on, can you get another tea or you just gotta wait 1hour?
gloomy knoll
you don't get the buff with a diff soulbind on
so if it lets you use it prob just puts it on cd
wintry mica
brazen zodiac
wanton creek
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
heavy coral
brazen zodiac
wanton creek
If blindside/vigor sucks ass why do most of the guides suggest it?
cerulean raft
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
balmy condor
If blindside/vigor sucks ass why do most of the guides suggest it?
Cause it doesn’t suck
It’s just slightly worse in cleave, and there happens to be a lot of that in sanctum
balmy condor
No
brazen zodiac
it depends on the fight
brazen zodiac
honestly mythic is where ur probs gonna see CT being used and even then still not many bosses
i can literally only think of soulrender
KT maybe? idfk lmfao
wanton creek
That’s fine thought I’d been gimping my guild and my dps for the last 4/5 weeks 😬
misty holly
I forgot to spec out of my M+ talents for raid a few weeks ago. Got my best ever Remnant of Ner'zhul parse with Crimson Tempest.
misty holly
9.6k
fallen arch
And with subterfuge?
brazen zodiac
fallen arch
ebon notch
Wait so blindside and vigor could pump on ST?
balmy condor
Yeh
ebon notch
Ah
balmy condor
I assumed that’s what he meant
Since blindside/vig hasn’t been a thing since early early nathria
balmy condor
ebon notch
Sus
ebon notch
Since blindside/vig hasn’t been a thing since early early nathria
How come? Low haste?
balmy condor
Yeh trash ass gear
More haste more crit more cp more energy more ep uptime more envenom uptime
Less need for crutch talents
Ep doesn’t buff winds
alpine garden
Guides get written once at the start and then almost never updated
wanton creek
Yeh I was asking cause most of the guides suggest it
alpine garden
#assassination-faq is always a good shout
wanton creek
Yeh I’m still new to a lot of stuff, I rarely raided since wotlk lol
digital zodiac
do you guys play assass on painsmith ? or do you feel its awful?
guild got to it last night and had a few pulls
not sure how i feel about it on assass
probably a reason why most logs are sub
willow eagle
Still good for boss damage
deft obsidian
It’s perfectly fine as sin, trash on adds of course but they get melted by the pad squad anyways. I tend to be top 2 boss & ball damage as sin which is all that really matters
heavy coral
rocky pecan
someone got a good weak aura for track frost set guys ?
rocky pecan
thanks sir ❤️
lunar otter
@balmy condor zoldyck for m+ crit/mast for the stats ?
zinc frost
Crit/mast or crit/haste works fine for zold
lunar otter
ye sims tellin me to put crit haste rings on aswell but ithought we hard stack mastery 😮
strange python
hello, do we use agi potion or phantom fire potion on raid? for example mythic guardian
zinc frost
ye sims tellin me to put crit haste rings on aswell but ithought we hard stack ...
Yep, mastery is good in m +. If your just crafting zold for the first time and your swimming in haste go crit/mast for zold.
lunar otter
nah i have both crit mastry rings and crit haste and zold in crit mast n haste i just dont trust sims telin me to run haste in m+
zinc frost
hello, do we use agi potion or phantom fire potion on raid? for example mythic g...
Not a huge different in pots, usually personal preference
deft obsidian
Little in it but more consistency with agi pots generally
scenic dawn
plus just feels better to use imo
subtle otter
Is it stupid of me to wanting to switch to Necro from Venthyr? is there a major dps diff between them two?
zinc frost
Yeah not a huge difference. Go play necro if you enjoy it more
hollow river
Necro just doesn’t use dashing over doomblade in most cases
subtle otter
Necro just doesn’t use dashing over doomblade in most cases
is that so? so doomblade would be the go to for necro?
hollow river
Yeah, usually. Doomblade and frost set.
Could always sim the difference
Btw
Between Venthyr/necro and doomblade/dashing
spice spire
Yeah, usually. Doomblade and frost set.
Dashing eventually takes over still. At least for my sims
spice spire
Top gear, select “unlock all soulbinds”
subtle otter
ah I see now! thanks
zinc frost
Dashing eventually takes over still. At least for my sims
Same, 262 db was only like 50 dps increase over a 235 dashing as necro
hollow river
Dashing eventually takes over still. At least for my sims
Yeah but by how much? Just isn’t the case for 90% of the sims I’ve seen
I know at “bis” levels it pulls ahead barely
agile geode
For me 248 itemlvl 42% crit necro sin, dashing Is simming higher by 30 dps and 140 cleave
spice spire
Yeah but by how much? Just isn’t the case for 90% of the sims I’ve seen
Not by much. Seriously 20-40 dps rn
hollow river
Ye okay 👌
spice spire
And that’s with r5 frost
agile geode
Rotation a bit smoother
hollow river
It definitely shouldn’t be simming higher on cleave?
agile geode
With dashing ofc
hollow river
Afaik whispyr said doomblade is better in cleave
hollow river
Weird
subtle otter
seems to be 400 dps difference between venthyr and necro for me
hollow river
All I know is whispyr’s spreadsheet had doomblade ahead in basically any cleave
But those are with different gear than you’ve got so
hollow river
seems to be 400 dps difference between venthyr and necro for me
Did you try adding doomblade into the sim
subtle otter
yeah but only got it in 235 tbf
hollow river
Well your gear is probably set up for Venthyr too
Necro tends to like more haste than Venthyr
hollow river
Well in the “bis” sims in the faq channel the difference is around 400-500 dps too
So that might be right
subtle otter
probably. Thanks for the help
burnt star
As long as your above 35-40% crit and r5 frost. Dashing should beat your doomblade. Doesnt need to be bis setup or gear
At 240+ gear my dashing became better then my doomblade
spice spire
Necrolords make it fucky
manic pebble
Feel nice to smash those elites tho
spice spire
I disagree, but Venthyr still very fun. But yeah that’s like the only way you get away with it, and even then dashing will eventually yoink ahead
burnt star
I dont really get the "necro is fun" in raid when the counter argument is. Flag is boring. They are basicly the same thing.
U only sbs on gemproc
And u flag on cd
The soulbind from venthyr is the fun part
Not the ability
fathom flax
Are you saying that rogue covenant abilities are boring
burnt star
They are
fathom flax
Golly
burnt star
Rofl
fathom flax
Yeah they suck
burnt star
Im still.amaze that warrior get spear of bastion that does 30% of their damage in keys
And on a 45 sec cd
burnt star
Its kinda boring on raid scenario imo
fallen arch
The other 3 are w/e I agree, not a great average
fathom flax
Give me rogue convoke
fallen arch
Pls no
fathom flax
What’s wrong with sepsis!?!?
fallen arch
What’s not wrong with sepsis
fathom flax
/s
burnt star
Sepsis should have been stealth
But nah. Too much fun
Instead of that useless grants a stealth ability that doesnt really combine with any of our toolkit on any of the 3 spec
fathom flax
Might’ve been okay with shrouded suffocation
I still think that should have been a talent or something
drowsy parcel
U only sbs on gemproc
you bring great shame to necrolord clan
pure walrus
hello guys, looking at the wclogs sylvanas mythic i see alot of people using doomblade, is it better than dashing legendary for that fight?
What makes it better than dashing?
spice spire
The fact that people are comfy with Doomblade play style and they already had it made
pure walrus
If you dont mind explaining how does doomblade playstyle differs from dashing?
gusty mirage
Sepsis should have been stealth
Sepsis should’ve been deleted and reworked
limber lion
Doomblade is generally better for lower frost ranks and when using the unholy set, it also tends to perform better with heavy movement and the EP/Vig talents.
gusty mirage
Actual trash tier ability
limber lion
However, they're both very close to one another, so you can honestly play either. I've had excellent results with both.
@pure walrus
drowsy parcel
doomblade CT for pad/farm, pb dashing for progress
limber lion
doomblade CT for pad/farm, pb dashing for progress
Hell no
drowsy parcel
yes.
brazen zodiac
the man has spoken!
limber lion
but its good padding
No it's not?
You literally press it like twice in p1 and twice in p2
have you even looked at your OWN log?
brazen zodiac
feels like all the adds die in 2 seconds rbh
limber lion
drowsy parcel
yeah i know
limber lion
This is your own log and CT damage
Most of this damage comes from P3
not p2
not p1
from literally single target
p3
full tree
@limber lion are u talking about mythic or heroic?
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> are u talking about mythic or heroic?
Mythic.
You literally did less than 150k damage on all the adds with CT
Throughout the entire fight
That's awful
drowsy parcel
idk maybe you are right, first time i tested it out yesterday
and it feels like shit too
brazen zodiac
haha
brazen zodiac
that's how i felt when i accidently took CT in painsmith
limber lion
But yeah, it's not great.
brazen zodiac
do people do that tho
limber lion
You sacrifice a bunch of p3 damage as well by using CT/DB instead of PB/Dashing
chrome spoke
worth going master poisoner while playing zoldyk? new ass rogue so dont have doomblade yet.
limber lion
worth going master poisoner while playing zoldyk? new ass rogue so dont have doo...
No, never.
Always play Elaborate Planning
hollow escarp
always always?
limber lion
When playing Zoldyck, yes.
hollow escarp
ahh, true
limber lion
We don't play Zoldyck in raids either and it's generally only used for aoe scenarios
So, you play Ep
brazen zodiac
clever kindle
Sepsis should’ve been deleted and reworked
I was sure once they realized how fucked the Vanish mechanic was in practice that it would have been reworked yet here we are a year later
I like the idea of having a 1 button big CD, except it was none of those things and just annoying to use
brazen zodiac
idek what sepsis does idont think I ever used it properly
i used it right before shiv
clever kindle
Its a dot that lets you use a stealth ability like ambush after a few seconds, that's it
and a bad dot, at that
woven ruin
With doom and necro, which fights are we not using PB in raid?
limber lion
With doom and necro, which fights are we not using PB in raid?
In mythic or heroic?
woven ruin
Heroic
limber lion
CT on KT, maybe Fatescribe. That's about it.
rocky pecan
Idk about CT on progress KT on mm if phylactere
charred wraith
kinda no
limber lion
Idk about CT on progress KT on mm if phylactere
Always take CT on KT.
pure moth
Even if you go down into thing?
rocky pecan
My raid like to much aoe already
pure moth
Adds are dead by the time we come up
limber lion
Those are not the only adds in the fight...
rocky pecan
Even little skeleton
shrewd helm
Kt worth going outlaw?
spice spire
Adds come back up
limber lion
Kt worth going outlaw?
No.
delicate berry
i enjoy the KT fight..get my best parses there haha
karmic crystal
The two parses that mean the least: KT and tarragrue
delicate berry
still enjoy the fight regardless of the parse
finally did the achievement for Mr Bigglesworth there yesterday
karmic crystal
As it is one of the worst offenders for blizzards encounter design flaws this tier I think you are alone there
delicate berry
so im alone? ah man i better go get a bucket to catch my ttears
rocky pecan
i like some boss tho
karmic crystal
Some fights are fine but I think there is a commonly shared belief between most people that any fight where a raid leader tells you to take your hands off the keyboard is not a good fight
limber lion
Exactly.
karmic crystal
Even there you will probably be told to stop dps
delicate berry
i don't enjoy it as boomkin for that reason
rocky pecan
i just see ppl speak about that after pilav cried on twitch
delicate berry
raiding on both Sin/Boom in two different places
rocky pecan
1 month ago no one speak about "stop dps"
delicate berry
nope all about that increase in gear messes with phase timings etc sometimes good sometimes bad
karmic crystal
1 month ago less people were confronted by “stop dps”
Time has passed, people have progressed
But one thing remains
You must stop dps
plain thistle
"I pay this game to not play it"our DK everytime our raid leader says stop dps 
rocky pecan
so the problem is boss design or gear design
limber lion
1 month ago no one speak about "stop dps"
lol.
it has been an issue since castle nathria my guy
it's not just this tier
karmic crystal
One of our boomkins just stands in the corner staring at the wall on rekills
limber lion
it's been ongoing for months and months, if not years.
lavish lichen
Nathria?
lavish lichen
You stopped dps on zaqul 
delicate berry
i skipped that tier