assassination

[obtuse robin]

whoa whoa now

i like slice

[slow marsh]

Make it a passive already

[errant plover]

^

[limber lion]

It's already pretty passive ngl

[errant plover]

or remove it, give a fun ability to offset loss

[slow marsh]

It's a passive that's not a passive

[obtuse robin]

ya focsuing the wrong ability brothers

[slow marsh]

Funny how the more passive it gets the more people don't mind it cough 9.0.5

Cttc was so nice

Give us another nice thing this .5 plz blizz

[subtle tundra]

What if assa actually had baseline aoe

No shot

[limber lion]

We do

FoK

Not even target capped in 9.1.5

Massive aoe potential

[subtle tundra]

[obtuse robin]

fok master poisiner poisned katar i can see it now

[winter vapor]

if it does stay uncapped, probably gonna make katar even worse

[vestal wren]

PK

[obtuse robin]

?

[proper pendant]

jsut got heroic sylv ring

wheres my fkin dagger

[winter vapor]

the crit being static, and the dmg boost not being noticeable as is

[obtuse robin]

uh

alright

[brazen zodiac]

congrats ratgod

[oak sky]

Personally i prefer the dn conduit

[spice spire]

Ahh yes DN is definitely big brain with the suggodon shield

[oak sky]

Damage buff with shard of dyz equipped!

[cinder dagger]

Are there any rad pvp assassins that would mind helping me

[dense hamlet]

#pvp

[winter vapor]

Oryphiron bugged again it seems, or has he been changed so you need to spread now on second cast?

[loud light]

are you talking about the timing of his recharge? tank can control that by triggering stomps which use up his energy

boss definitely hasn't been changed

[winter vapor]

... you can trigger stomps?

I knew it was tied to his energy but this one just seemed at random

[loud light]

if the tank walks into his hitbox and stomp is off CD, he'll do it

at max melee range he'll never stomp

[winter vapor]

well that's embarrasing having tanked him a fair bit, but ty for the info 🙂

[quasi grotto]

7 minute fight, if i hold flag for vend wqill i be missing caSTS

[spice spire]

Yes

[limber lion]

You should be using on cooldown, it'll line up on the 6th minute anyways

[wide ridge]

i thought we lined flag with vend

[oak sky]

hold bad

only first and last

[wide ridge]

gaw damn

[oak sky]

losing casts is worse than not syncing them

[wide ridge]

what if blizz buffs vendetta to 1:30min cd in 9.1.5, imagine

[oak sky]

why would they do that

[wide ridge]

idk let me

imagine all vendettas lined up with all flags

[left plaza]

vanish? :c

[oak sky]

if you want that run obedience

[wide ridge]

dashing big pog tho

[oak sky]

when we get double leggos

duskwalkers patch + obedience

definitely good

[lusty surge]

Question for m+ players

Im running with a lock, ww, vdh, and rsham

I've just been playing straight ST to help with boss damage

Is that the right play? We are gonna run a 21 halls tonight and I feel like I should still play ST build

[kind talon]

what is st build

lol

define it

you never swap off ct

[lusty surge]

Like no CT/garrote

[kind talon]

only thing u can swap off is katar for wps

nah thats trolling

[balmy condor]

no CT is definitely wrong

[spice spire]

no CT is 100% trolling

[lusty surge]

It just feels like I literally never have time to bleed with aff and ww

[balmy condor]

no subterfuge is probably wrong too

[kind talon]

u can go MA / NS

but subt is great

[balmy condor]

iron wire

is too good

[lusty surge]

They just obliterate the packs then the bosses live forever

[kind talon]

not as good for inspired @balmy condor

bro

[spice spire]

@balmy condor i go no subterfuge on some places

[kind talon]

PB vs Ct

[spice spire]

but I'm an APe

[balmy condor]

yeah I guess but it still applies

[arctic walrus]

You are already playing assassination, that’s as good of st as you need

[spice spire]

CT is absolutely trolling by not going tho

[kind talon]

^^^^^^

[lusty surge]

Gotcha thanks

[oak sky]

your st build is just envenoming your vendetta target imo

[balmy condor]

yeh

[kind talon]

if ur rlly worried @lusty surge all i can advise you to do is swap off of katar for WPS

thats it

imo

[lusty surge]

Kk ty

[oak sky]

i do that

[lusty surge]

We are doing this 21 really as a learning run anyway

So I'm not stressing it

I'll play ct

[kind talon]

good choice

[lusty surge]

Also I'm night fae and we don't have a venthyr so

Not planning on timing it anyway

You think it might be worth the lock playing demo for this key if I'm swapping to CT? He's a god on all 3 specs

[kind talon]

no

[oak sky]

destro and aff are probably both way better than demo in keys

[kind talon]

not having a venthyr is really bad though

[lusty surge]

Yeah won't argue there

I just can't be assed doing the grind

Will wait for 9.1.5

[kind talon]

u def want aff

for hoa

[lusty surge]

Thanks for the advice

[arctic walrus]

if you know you're playing with a lock why are you sticking with the worst covenant choice for rogue?

[lusty surge]

Just no time to care about swapping atm

Working a lot of OT

Already have venthyr ready to go from s1 disc so just gonna wait sadly

[limber lion]

I mean swapping doesn't take any time whatsoever honestly

You can finish the entire campaign in like 2 hours, you'll get renown up to par very quickly with dailies/weeklies and by clearing the raid and whatever

But yeah, if you can only play like 1-2 hours a day, then fair enough.

[lusty surge]

Ya just raid logging and doing a couple keys atm, it's all good!

[dark token]

campaign is just pain tho

id rather wait till next patch to swap pain free to necro

[limber lion]

Sure

But I find myself just being afk for hours upon hours every day

in Oribos

or my sanctum

So that's some time I could spend doing the campaign itself

But yeah, fair enough

Wait till next patch. Probably not too far off either honestly.

[balmy condor]

do you vibe with the homies?

@fervent saddle and the lads

[limber lion]

What a bunch of chads.

[oak sky]

Im literally waiting to level alts so i can abuse the new leveling and campaign stuff

[sudden hound]

same. f the maw intro

[kind edge]

there is no more maw intro?

[balmy condor]

literally came out of raid at 9:05, sat in sinfall, talked to people, looked at the clock, 11:45

[limber lion]

Me every day

[kind edge]

oh well

what else are you gonna do

[limber lion]

sitting in the most fucked up positions

probably developing scoliosis as we speak

[grave scroll]

the irony in the 'maw' skip is if you don't click on darion ASAP to skip intro, and he yeets into death gate, you're stuck doing maw intro anyway. in patch 9.1.5

[loud mason]

For Top 20, well placed steel or poison katar?

[limber lion]

WPS

[balmy condor]

Never Katar

Katar bad

we hate katar

[loud mason]

Yeah was thinking wps too

[limber lion]

Katar

[loud mason]

Ma vs subt for same question?

[limber lion]

Always Subt

[loud mason]

so many single target stuff in top it got me questioning stuff lol

[limber lion]

Well, not that much actually

There's quite a few 2-3 encounters though

And Subt is just strictly better for that and the difference between the two is kinda minimal anyways

so Subt is better just used as a defensive/utility tool to proc iron wire on multiple enemies

[oak sky]

Katar in fort aoe keys

[ebon notch]

katar after the aoe cap removed

run that shit in dos

and halls

actually giga value

[limber lion]

bad.

[ebon notch]

nah when theres like 50 targets giga value trust

[limber lion]

especially with aoe cap gone, we don't have as much value for the added crit which helps a bit on cp generation

don't use katar.

[ebon notch]

any feelycrafters?

[limber lion]

Who knows what happens and what will be the best in 9.1.5, but I doubt Katar will see the light of day

[ebon notch]

when you wanna do that sanguine cev

im boosting all of late afternoon tomorrow and evening

[limber lion]

Not today

Unlucky

[ebon notch]

why unlucky

[limber lion]

Won't be doing the key at all then

[ebon notch]

i dont need it.

[limber lion]

I do

but don't have time

Unlucky

[ebon notch]

it be that way sometimes

[oak sky]

Katar bonus fok damage

[ebon notch]

can do it at like

1 ST

lmao

1am

[ebon notch]

katar empowering next finisher

that would make it actually viable

[balmy condor]

Katar wins on 6+ sustained

[ebon notch]

I KNEW IT

[balmy condor]

Dungeons are not that

[ebon notch]

depends on how little dps you have

some of those pulls can be pretty sustained

[limber lion]

sometimes I wonder

[oak sky]

Katar is definitely a feelycraft thing though

It definitely feeels like i get more cp

[ebon notch]

ive literally never touched it

[oak sky]

I dont run it rn

Too lazy to change anything more than my nadjia path

[ebon notch]

its kinda tilting going from sub to assa and doing fan of knives

and getting like 2 cp

[balmy condor]

I mean even then

Why take it

If you could just take wps

And do prio

[ebon notch]

yh thats the strat for sure

[deft obsidian]

👀

[ebon notch]

[oak sky]

Oh yea

Prio is great

Love hopping into halls with a 230 ww monk and getting outdone in overall

Me kill shard

[deft obsidian]

But then come bosses watch him fold like a deck chair

[ebon notch]

what you wondering

[ebon notch]

actually true

[limber lion]

[oak sky]

Just pull into boss

Duh

[balmy condor]

I have to do that in the pins cause people are like why does faq when I sim and then katar and ?????

So I just shuffle it ahead

And put some >= =

So the people who can’t think for themselves

Are happy

[deft obsidian]

Fair.

[balmy condor]

Usually just follows the sims

[deft obsidian]

Like most I just keep my raid setup with lashing/WPS or play sub in keys

[ebon notch]

my ww monk for keys is such a blaster on packs

[limber lion]

I never touch my shards or my conduits.

[ebon notch]

and so dogshit in single target

[limber lion]

Who gives a damn

[ebon notch]

you still doing rank 1 frost set then?

[limber lion]

huh?

[oak sky]

I literally only change path

[limber lion]

I only change talents and legendary

nothing else.

[ebon notch]

is the combat potion node on theotar ever viable

[limber lion]

No

[ebon notch]

or the weapon enhancement node on nadjia

[hollow escarp]

Was nice in nathria

For pre pull memes

[ebon notch]

they fixed the cheese i assume

[limber lion]

Yes.

[hollow escarp]

Yep

[ebon notch]

if a group lusts outside of your last set of synced cds

do you just keep delaying until they are up

or use one during the lust

and what if you have pot available also

[limber lion]

Use cds during lust

Syncing is not exactly super mega giga

[ebon notch]

so if im delaying vend for flag

[limber lion]

Using cds during lust kinda is

[ebon notch]

i just pop vend

during lust

[limber lion]

Yes

[ebon notch]

cause on some bosses if you lust at 35% or around there

there can still be such a stretch after lust is over with nothing to pop

guess its just kill times

[iron charm]

Do i have to kill sire to upgrade sudden fracture or is there another scamaz way? 😞

[ebon notch]

random conduit upgrade items

[deft obsidian]

Freebies to 226 in korthia

[ebon notch]

or world quests

or the daily quests from cov sanctum

[balmy condor]

Yeah just korthia to 226, then buy the 252 tokens

[limber lion]

Adamant vaults

[balmy condor]

And get the token from your weekly torg run

[iron charm]

Kortia is the random one right?

[ebon notch]

so sad they wont give us 1 per run

[indigo thicket]

you guys playing dashing or obedience in m+

[limber lion]

Do note that if you have all conduits at 252, you can't get the conduit upgrade item from Adamant Vaults. So if you want to get the covenant conduits in 9.1.5, you probably shouldn't upgrade all of your conduits to 252 and instead save some of the conduit upgrades in your bags for 9.1.5

[deft obsidian]

Obe until I craft zolds

[limber lion]

Zoldyck.

[limber lion]

Korthia is a zone.

But yes, you can get free, random conduit upgrade items there.

[ebon notch]

i did like running obedience in keys tbh

you get a fuckload of stacks

but the haste is kinda wasted

basically becomes a nice 1 min cd

[iron charm]

Thank you very much fam!

[indigo thicket]

never expected zold, how did that workout? i figured that was more st progression execute priority

[limber lion]

lol

We've always used Zoldyck.

[deft obsidian]

Never even crossed my mind, huge plays sir

[limber lion]

We've used Zoldyck since 9.0

To be fair, we used it in Legion as well

But it was quite a bit of a different story back then

But yeah, it's either Obedience or Zoldyck.

Most high rated assassination players just play Zoldyck

[ebon notch]

honestly in super high keys like 23+ just go sub

its better

[limber lion]

good advice

nerd

[ebon notch]

😠

unfortunately its just true

as someone who has timed multiple

[limber lion]

"which legendary should I play on assassination?"

"just play sub"

good advice.

very wise.

[ebon notch]

that is not what i said

it was an addendum to the topic

[limber lion]

honestly in super high keys

play whatever you want

[ebon notch]

xd

[limber lion]

not everyone likes all the rogue specs

and some people just want to play one spec

I hate the advice of

"just play outlaw" or "just play sub"

like no

[deft obsidian]

I mean we’ve seen sin time high keys. So it’s preference based really

[limber lion]

I'm not gonna do that

I'm playing sin

[ebon notch]

i mean yeah but then that advice isnt relevant to them really is it

[limber lion]

You could just very well say "just play fire mage"

[limber lion]

exactly

so it's literally pointless advice

they ask about assassination

and you tell them to go sub

"which legendary should I play in 23's as assassination?"
"Disciplinary Command is the bis legendary for fire mage, you should give that a go, it's a lot better"

[deft obsidian]

I mean if I wanna blow up an instance I’ll just go play necromonk. Which I was contemplating doing just for the pp feels

[zinc frost]

“Guys just play monk”

[ebon notch]

bruh thats what i did lmao

i hated playing sub in keys and couldnt do enough damage as assa

so i rerolled monk just for keys

🤷‍♂️

[limber lion]

sucks to suck

🤷‍♂️

[ebon notch]

when you're doing that first pull in halls

bruh its so rough

[deft obsidian]

I mean legit I’ve done around the same damage sub vs sin. You aren’t pulling 50k regardless ha

[ebon notch]

yh thats what i mean lmao

get 2 procs on ww you're doing 70k

its so stupid

[zinc frost]

Sin feels more satisfying to play in keys tho imo instead of spin2win

[deft obsidian]

I get my funsies fix playing protadin in keys

[ebon notch]

true actually if i could id only play sin

but we didnt have enough damage to time keys, whether it was comp or skill i dont know

[deft obsidian]

Ngl, I find sub is complete auto pilot. Sin at least is far more engaging for me

[ebon notch]

the nice thing about sub in keys is you have perma shadow dance

when in big packs

shuriken tornado is also nice af

[deft obsidian]

Yeh just depends on the key and my mood. I enjoy both either way

[ebon notch]

an example i always give when people ask is mists and ToP

they are such nice assa dungeons

pulling like 20k+ dps on first boss of mists cause all your bleeds are destroying the boss is so satisfying

[oak sky]

Katar in top

[ebon notch]

this is the worst dungeon

to use it in

[oak sky]

Really????

I had nooooo clue

[ebon notch]

i cant reply cause i took the bait

ggs good sir

[oak sky]

Playing katar to blast the souls

[ebon notch]

and the plague pack LMAO

[oak sky]

Maybe kill some jumpers when they go to your ranged standing in narnia

[ebon notch]

nah thats when you vortex

then sweep

sorry i mean

kidney

[oak sky]

Gouge

[ebon notch]

dude i imss

gouge

so much

[oak sky]

I think

[ebon notch]

take ur time

[oak sky]

Iron wire compensates if your tank knows what it does

[ebon notch]

i mean yeah but you gotta vanish

so

[oak sky]

Sorry

Laggied

Yeah

But vanish is fine tho

[ebon notch]

i mean when ur playing subterfuge

refreshing all those garrotes

is so nice

but if you need the silence then what can you do

[oak sky]

I rather use vanish for iron wire normally but not always ig

On bosses syncing with vendetta feels really worth

[ebon notch]

yh 100%

always do that in m+ on bosses

[oak sky]

But in packs i think control feels better usually

[ebon notch]

yeah i guess

[zinc frost]

Vanish when mobs get near to 30 percent for them fat empowered garrotes with zoldyck 😉

[oak sky]

Yep yep yep

[slow marsh]

just vanish on cd nerds

[oak sky]

Playing optimally

[slow marsh]

u right

[ebon notch]

[oak moth]

Is it not 2 mutas into combo point spender after open or am I just pepega

[balmy condor]

Depends on what you mean by after opener

But you build to 4+ with vigor

And then finish

That’s the flow

[oak moth]

Is it envomen after the garrote/ambush/snd/shiv to keep uptime on snd since I use it with 1 combo or do I just go the other one

Cause I'ma be honest, idk rogue and I'm like following the optimal shit but it does like 2-3k less than I'm simming sometimes lol

[balmy condor]

I don’t get the question

Maintain garrote/rupture, shiv on cooldown, finish with envenom

[kind talon]

@oak sky you always vanish on cd to reapply / apply empowered garrotes

unreal

[oak sky]

let cds overlap in keys + spinning crane kick + fuck bitches

[kind talon]

[oak sky]

Never doing prio damage again + full aoe + poisoned katar + dashinf

[kind talon]

L + Ratio + just go zoldyck?

[brazen zodiac]

i read and see i been inting with katar >.<

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t call it inting

It’s just worse usually

But it’s not like you’re losing out 5% damage or something

[ebon notch]

https://i.imgur.com/Lrr4Kyc.png

oh fuck cev is coming for my head

[brazen zodiac]

probs should take WPS ig especially since running theo and tyrannical

i kinda psych myself out thinking it's like an instant 5 cp thing ig.

[balmy condor]

Yeah the crit doesn’t scale with level

So it’s just fok damage

Which isn’t all that impressive

[brazen zodiac]

ah i see.

thx.

[cobalt pelican]

wow, the famous raew?

[kind talon]

What boss

[ebon notch]

fate

my only rank 1

[kind talon]

Wow

CraY

[arctic hare]

I totally forgot to sim it, but Relic of the Frozen Wastes ended up being better

[vapid nimbus]

I'm jumping on Raid soon, and Im thinking about replacing my Doomblade cape with Dashing. But I dont quite get it, How does it work? What procs it?

I have rank 4 Frost set and 40% Crit.

[earnest remnant]

dashing is just a passive effect

[vapid nimbus]

I get that, But the part when it says "Envenom also increases the critical strike chance of your poisons" throws me off, because most of my attacks can poison the target. Does that mean that Mut also gets an increased 15% crit?

[cobalt pelican]

?

is mut a poison

or is the poison the poison

[vapid nimbus]

So the poison itself crits?

[earnest remnant]

The envenom buff just increases the Crit chance of your poisons

[ebon notch]

and when your poisons crit you get energy

so you can see how they synergise right

[vapid nimbus]

So is that referring to the instant nature damage we deal after we re-apply a poison on an already poisoned target?

[ebon notch]

ALL poison damage

the dot from deadly or the instant damage

any poison damage critting

gives you energy

[vapid nimbus]

Cool, I was not aware that the DOT could crit.

Thanks guys.

[balmy condor]

generally everything can crit

there are some exceptions, mostly things like awkward procs and necrotic wake weapons

that kind of stuff

[vapid nimbus]

Thanks!

[balmy condor]

np

[halcyon tapir]

Do garrote and rupture both give energy ticks on same target?

[manic pebble]

Yes

[halcyon tapir]

Cheers

[soft shale]

friendly reminder to report kel trinket not critting

[proper sage]

@kind talon is it okay to overcap during my shiv window

[echo geyser]

[soft shale]

always triple mutilate that'll show the boss

[fallen arch]

Can we also start reporting that the remnant balls don’t refund sbs charges

[oak sky]

im so sad

[balmy condor]

that's not gonna get changed

because the balls don't die

[oak sky]

we didnt kill fate

[fallen arch]

I mean, trchnically they don’t die but it’s hella annoying

[oak sky]

and im missing prog on wednesday

😦

[fallen arch]

Makes me wanna go venthyr after all

[kind talon]

u can overcap with shiv

but otherwise dont overcap

you dont pool during shiv and vendetta windows @proper sage

[oak sky]

flag users?

[echo geyser]

its weird cause u get mfd resets

they should just make the painsmith balls act exactly like p2 sire

so we get max cp per sbs

[ebon notch]

@oak sky you raid with decaf?

[proper sage]

yea 3 of us raid together

[oak sky]

@ebon notch yer

[rotund oak]

swapped to venthyr for progress,something is unclear for flag usage from faq.. what does ''Sync with vendetta only if you will not lose a cast.'' mean?Do we allign flag with vendetta windows or not?

[oak sky]

Like if a fight is 5 minutes flag is 1:30 cd

So you would get 4

Vendetta is 2min you get 3

[rotund oak]

yes thats what im thinking about

[oak sky]

If you stretch flag to each vendetta you only get 3

[rotund oak]

so that means,besides the opener,we wont have another ''allign''

[oak sky]

The last one should also align

[rotund oak]

ye pretty much

[oak sky]

First and last

[rotund oak]

interesting,thx alot for the input

[oak sky]

Unless the fight has downtimes/intermissions that make it every time

[rotund oak]

currently on soulrender,pretty close on the kill

preparing for painsmith

[oak sky]

Yeah on painsmith you probably sync it every time

Most other fights that isnt the case

[rotund oak]

so we just get rdy for flag when its coming back up ''pool'' and use

makes sense

going for dashing frost btw

[oak sky]

Dashing frost doesnt change gameplay

[rotund oak]

it doesnt,just some general information 😛

[oak sky]

Yeah no worries

You pretty much pool for envenom and you end up pooling for flag, its mostly important to have 4-5 cp right before flag

[ebon notch]

Why didn't you kill @oak sky @proper sage

Did you int my boy

[proper sage]

i did

:c

[ebon notch]

Did one of you not step in the glowing circles

[cobalt hemlock]

How much does it matter to have the frost set because I wasnt able to get 5 dom pieces yet. And in dungeons I still do preety good mostly having the first place but in raids where everyone has it im dead last before the tanks

[balmy condor]

do you have any set bonus atm

[cobalt hemlock]

Like I said I dont have the 5 dom pieces so I do not

[balmy condor]

well you only need 3 for a set

that's why I ask

[cobalt hemlock]

Oh I have only 2 pieces yet

[balmy condor]

not having a set bonus at all will set you back quite a bit though

[cobalt hemlock]

And then when I have 3 I go with 3 frost and with 5 its 3 frost and 2 blood?

[balmy condor]

once you get 5 you go 3 frost, 1 unholy, 1 blood

the 3 frost gems for the set, and then bek for blood, which is the damage gem for that type

and dyz, which is the damage gem for unholy

[zealous marsh]

Our master Whispyr wrote that in #assassination-faq

[cobalt hemlock]

Oh im sorry

[zealous marsh]

He wrote that really clear and he spend eons

[balmy condor]

no worries

[zealous marsh]

No worries you have all answers there

[balmy condor]

we don't get a lot of questions here anymore

I like talking to people

[zealous marsh]

And looking into ppl’s logs too

[balmy condor]

yeh

just helping

feels nice

good dopamine hit

to the cranium

[zealous marsh]

You don’t need to sleep

[balmy condor]

oh man with the log reviews at the start of the patch I almost didn't

[oak sky]

Helping

[cobalt hemlock]

Also max from limit said the rogue aoe changes dont matter. but he meant it for Pro players who do M20+ right?

[balmy condor]

[zealous marsh]

[balmy condor]

max in this case is correct

but he's had some pretty questionable takes on rogues in the past

as of now

[zealous marsh]

I will wait for sims

[balmy condor]

we have no idea how it'll affect anything

cause we don't know the scaling on it past 5 targets

we also don't know if it's actually 5

or if it's sticking to 8

just a lot of guessing and shooting in the dark

[zealous marsh]

And we don’t know if they won’t change it

Again

Coz it’s too early

[balmy condor]

the best educated guess we have is that it's probably not going to change anything

sin will probably benefit the most

because dot damage is pretty difficult to reduce

so things like deadly poison and crimson tempest hitting everything

probably is a +

[ancient kraken]

Why

[balmy condor]

but there's not a lot of situations where you're hitting more than 8 targets anyways

so it's pretty hard to pin point anything in terms of numbers

[zealous marsh]

Yup regular andy pushing it’s not like mdi style play

So packs counts aren’t really that big

And sub is already 8 target isn’t it?

[chrome night]

i want to spec both sin and outlaw for dung and switch according to the weeks. I feel like fortified is more suitable for playing sin since packs die so fast in tyra. Am i mistaken or you guys have the same feeling ?

[zealous marsh]

Um play whatever u want

[zinc frost]

Sin is pretty good in tyrannical

Big boss pumper

[zealous marsh]

Really it doesn’t matter

Up to like 23 i would say specs are pretty much same

Higher sin is weaker from what ppl are saying

But play what you want

[balmy condor]

sub and sin are both 8, except secret technique which is 6, the shadow portion of black powder which hits everything that has find weakness, and outlaw flurry is capped at 5, blade rush is uncapped

[zealous marsh]

Yup but secret isn’t in play atm

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean buff storm, buff powder

[zealous marsh]

And i forgot about black powder find weakness u right sir

[balmy condor]

tornado stonkkkkkkkkks

[zealous marsh]

I mean i pushed to nearly 2.5k as sub only i did only one key as assa which was 22 top tyra

I don’t consider myself top tier key pusher

[chrome night]

thanks for the insights ! i guess i will take your advice and play the spec i want to play. right now it should not be an issue even tho i pull way more dmg from outlaw ( i know i dont play sin well on dj and have to improve)

[zealous marsh]

But sub seems much easier and fun

But raid wise assa is better for me

[chrome night]

btw is using MFD in dunj as sin is griefing ? i love it so much on outlaw and im used to snipe a lot but in ST i miss vigor. you know how DJ slice are configured regarding MFD ? Does it assume good use of it or just on cooldown use ?

[zealous marsh]

Subterfurge is much better

Combined with passive silence

You have 3 targets silenced on starters

Plus you deal shit tons of dmg

And on outlaw you simply reset cd on it on assa you don’t

[chrome night]

oh yeah i use subterfuge and the silence one ( dope combo indeed ) but im more unsure about the Vigor/DS/MFD line

[zealous marsh]

You take as much dmg as you can

Combined with utility ofc

And keys are 90% trash 10% boss

[chrome night]

keeping for vendetta/shiv window if those are close so i guess

[zealous marsh]

Well you vendetta priority targets most of the time

That’s why it’s waste of a talent on keys in my opinion but i might be wrong

Subterfurge is go to

[balmy condor]

mfd isn't on the subterfuge row

mfd is fine to use

technically does more damage

[zealous marsh]

Which row is it

[balmy condor]

vigor/deeper

[chrome night]

the one just below

[zealous marsh]

I use vigor

Tbh

[balmy condor]

subterfuge is nightstalker/ma

anyways

mfd is usually resetting the end of a pull

[zealous marsh]

I have memory of a fish

[balmy condor]

which is arguably padding somewhat

cause things are basically dead anyway

and should die fairly evenly

makes opening with subterfuge harder, less energy on the start of pulls

but it's fine to use

damage is probably similar

[chrome night]

true that. thats actually where i land the most of my envenoms with MFD indeed. I guess vigor provide more "usefull" dmg then if we follow that logic

[balmy condor]

yeh

and it's just easier

[chrome night]

will try to switch to vigor next runs

yeah i feel a bit energy starved on bosses aswell so should help with that point

thanks guys !

[zealous marsh]

Well some1 has to kill that boss

[chrome night]

i mean i feel like rogue is really good on ST anyway

whatever the spec you play

[balmy condor]

That’s why they take us

:)

[chrome night]

yeah 😄

[zealous marsh]

Well not always

Try to get to 22 - 23 key pug alone. They would rather take 3 rangeds most of the time

[chrome night]

key pug

im done with that only pushing with friends/guild

[zealous marsh]

Well don’t hold back

I’m pesimist

[chrome night]

im venthyr so i dont really meet PUG hopes from the start

[fallen arch]

They also really like shroud I found

Pugging keys beyond a certain point is just really hard

[zealous marsh]

They like but on certain dungeons. On all the others they use invi pots

[fallen arch]

If you’re not getting into pugs it’s surely not because you’re melee

It’s usually because your score doesn’t meet the required key lvl

[zealous marsh]

And you are right on pugging part. Atm I’m in a point where i would find better guild but none that i’m interested in is searching for a rogue

[zealous marsh]

2475 is enough for 21/22 i guess

[fallen arch]

It should be, so you should have no trouble getting into them / making them yourself

[zealous marsh]

Coz i pushed all the 20s from what i remember

Most of the 21 also done

[fallen arch]

I still don’t think it has to do with wanting ranged tho?

[zealous marsh]

I dunno

I would just stop pushing at this point and try to find myself stable group tbh

[fallen arch]

Ye that’s infinitely better

You might run into walls with a group too, but every run you learn and can try things out

When u wipe with a pug its just like ‘ah well, bye, cya never’

[zealous marsh]

Ye i know

Know i need to focus on finding better guild tho

[fallen arch]

Same actually

Struggling at mythic Remnant

[zealous marsh]

I mean when rekill remnant is taking nearly same time as progress

[fallen arch]

We haven’t killed it yet

[zealous marsh]

Only because raid lider left and ppl suddenly forgot how to play

[fallen arch]

Raid leader is super important tho on that fight

[wind dune]

Nerf raid leaders

[fallen arch]

Or at least, communication

[zealous marsh]

I mean deaths are only to ppl not using defensives

Or we said to person you take care of the balls

And we hear „nah i don’t want to” then i mean

[fallen arch]

That’s what I said too

Cause it’s stupid to let a rogue do it

When you have a score of monks, shaman, mages and Dh’s in the group

[zealous marsh]

We managed to get to painsmith and ppl are dying in intermission to brain lag constantly

[fallen arch]

That’s a bummer

[zealous marsh]

We got to last phase 4 times and only one time was clear one

Our best mage decided to leave because of this clown fiesta and he was topping warcraftlogs

So no point of suffering

[rocky pecan]

It's just terrible how ppl are robot to just folow call from lead and don't understand or won't understand sometime I think it's like that in all guild you all time have 3 or 4 guy who just never look a timer in there life

[zealous marsh]

It’s easier to follow a call

[fallen arch]

Way easier

[zealous marsh]

Then you can focus on dps

[fallen arch]

It’s easier sometimes if ppl don’t have to think for themselves

[zealous marsh]

And other things

[balmy condor]

#off-topic guys

:)

[zealous marsh]

Whispyr killer of fun

[shadow tusk]

Do you guys insta kill adds on kt mythic or root Them

[balmy condor]

Had a lot of off topic rambles and trolling lately, need to crack down

[zealous marsh]

Who trolled

[zealous marsh]

Wish i would help you with that but i never saw mythic kt

[alpine garden]

Invis pots and stealth work differently right?

[fallen arch]

Yes

Invis is absolute

Stealth can be detected

So if u shroud ppl they should act accordingly

[alpine garden]

Yeah

[fallen arch]

And they shouldnt run thru mobs like they would with invis pots

[alpine garden]

I feel my pug yesterday had a fundamental misunderstanding lol

But ah well

[iron orchid]

You can help your group during a shroud by placing a distract or a sap on the right mob in the pack you are skipping

[balmy condor]

@iron orchid you can help me too because you’re distractingly cute

[arctic walrus]

Jesus my fucking eyes

[balmy condor]

The flashing

[arctic walrus]

Literal seizure

[kind talon]

Unreal

[balmy condor]

Anyway

Sometimes you just get pugs

That don’t understand stealth

Happens

[iron orchid]

after third boss in SD you can sap the add that has inspiring and make your whole group walk on it, then distract the next pack to the right and make everyone stick to the left wall

[brazen zodiac]

are you talking about the two packs that you encounter before you enter the hallway with the gauntlet?

if so do you always have to distract that pack? sometimes i can walk through it and sometimes i can't lmfao

[balmy condor]

You smash yourself against the wall

[iron orchid]

I always distract and this ensures pretty much 100% success rate, if your kyrians don't forget to remove their shitty brons

[balmy condor]

It’s doable if you don’t distract

But distracting helps

[oak sky]

BRON CENA

[heavy coral]

[strange python]

do you CT single target with dashing?

[oak sky]

nah

[strange python]

thx

[shadow tusk]

Depends do you mean you use it if talented or Pick it as a talent

[oak sky]

it doesn't really

either way its no

[shadow tusk]

It isnt tho

[oak sky]

it is tho

he said with dashing

using ct in single target with dashing isn't a gain

then of course you don't talent it unless there is consistent multitarget that matters or m+

with other legendaries its a gain to use in single target

just not with dashing

[rocky pecan]

uh

fatescribe ppl keep ct even with dashing on boss so

[shadow tusk]

Yeah, question is what the sim do tho

[oak sky]

not cast it ever

but from what I hear its about the same damage to use it as to not use it

like within margin of error

just easier to not use it until adds pop up

[reef ginkgo]

if i was to go sin for a few fights can i get away with using obedience or should i make a doomblade/dashing?

[junior rampart]

Meh! Why do my obedience sim more than doom or dashing by 230 dps with r4 frost set? All 3 sets have Almost all have same crit percentage of 40. So weird.

[whole pilot]

call me crazy but id imagine its not just the difference in legendary

at 230dps

[spice spire]

Obedience still good, you can 100% get away with just using it

[fallen arch]

Link sim?

[reef ginkgo]

sweet power of venth i guess

[bleak sky]

bless thy vaults kings and queens

[burnt star]

Doomblade < obedience < dashing. but picking any of the 3 is not gonna stop u from getting a pink parse

Its all marginal

And also id suggest u sim vigor/ep. Since thats what we use for 90% of s.o.d

[reef ginkgo]

if anything i imagine my shards will let me down mind, as i use blood for sub and yeah i have been simming them ones thanks

[runic maple]

oh didnt know that about st dmg with ct on dashing, good to know

[slim pebble]

I hope everyone gets a 252 phial today

[gusty mirage]

[junior rampart]

omg! sorry my bad. i realized the talents were changed for each sim. lol but now Obedience is still up by 5 dps.

[fallen arch]

Ye it can be close, probably when u upgrade the set dashing is gonna pull ahead

[delicate berry]

Soo is there maintenance? or is it fake news

[dawn ivy]

nah not right now

servers are up again

[prisma cypress]

how much of a dps increase can i expect going from r4 to r5 frost?

[wintry mica]

my server is still down

[prisma cypress]

sim it, i know

[dawn ivy]

i think r4 to 5 is like 200ish?

[wintry mica]

it was like 250-300 for me

[dawn ivy]

absolutely a fragment of my memory so i dont remember too well

[wintry mica]

looks like zuljin and bleeding hollow are the only NA servers still down

[delicate berry]

started running M+ finally on my rogue MT just feels sad

mt multi-target

[dawn ivy]

its a bit more difficult to do decent on aoe for sin

just gotta get used to it

[wintry mica]

i would agree that its not exactly a satisfying spec to aoe with

[dawn ivy]

spamming garrote is pretty important to learn

[wintry mica]

you dont setup for a big burst or anything

[delicate berry]

anyone actually running CT for M+? i did build Zolydk

[dawn ivy]

100%

[wintry mica]

you always run ct for m+

[dawn ivy]

CT is massive

[fallen arch]

Pls dont run anything else in that row

[wintry mica]

you should open basically every pack with 4x garrote -> CT

[delicate berry]

gotcha then thats my mistake

[wintry mica]

just remember you only use CT for the dot

dont spam it

[delicate berry]

i was doing "ok" without it but defintely could have been better

meanwhile the havoc DH and Hunter just laugh and hit 1-2 buttons for aoe

haha

eye beam is redonk

[brazen gyro]

do you guys think that sin will outscale outlaw in m+ in terms of overall dmg

[full tide]

it already does

from what I've seen

[mystic fractal]

I swear man, bleeding hollow always comes up last

[full tide]

I've personally done more as Assa than Outlaw

[mystic fractal]

potato server

[full tide]

and when I watch Seli he regularly does more than some of the good outlaw players I've watched

[wintry mica]

zuljin still down too

[full tide]

I think Assa is very inconsistent with damage though

[delicate berry]

i think they are late starting

[wintry mica]

[fallen arch]

It shouldn’t atm

[delicate berry]

just got a 15min warning for server shutdown on Hyjal

[full tide]

If you're on a Tyrannical week with a high burst comp, you're damage isn't going to look so good on overall compared to a week where trash dies slower etc.

[fallen arch]

But outlaw seems to be more punishing

[full tide]

I would disagree

I think Assa is more punishing

[fallen arch]

Id you cuck up

[full tide]

It's much harder to pull off

[wintry mica]

some hot takes this early in the morning lmao

[fallen arch]

Then we can agree to disagree

[manic pebble]

pls gib 252 phial

[fallen arch]

Wdym its almost 5pm

[delicate berry]

we can pray together then

[manic pebble]

amen brother

[fallen arch]

I feel sin is super easy in aoe as opposed to outlaw

[full tide]

I personally feel we have way more to do, way more to consider

when playing Assa vs Outlaw

[fallen arch]

However

We should be playing sub

Spam 2 buttons and profit

[full tide]

We're about maintaining more things, we care more about how the tank pulls and the group we play with impacts how I play as Assa more than Outlaw

[fallen arch]

And do most dos anyway of the 3 specs

[full tide]

I only play Outlaw in pugs

but with my group, depending on the key I play Assa/Outlaw

Going Venthyr tomorrow though so will play Sub for pushing and Assa for fun

[fallen arch]

If this is the case, then why do you pull more dps with sin? Outlaw has higher output potential

[full tide]

That's my thoughts as to why I personally think it's easier to play Outlaw

I think Assa has more potential when things go right for me

Maybe I'm way off

[amber mountain]

Outlaw is whack-a-mole and requires more APM, i pull more with 'sin because i make less mistakes

[full tide]

this is how I feel from playing both specs a lot

I'll personally do more damage playing Assa feeling like I make 50 mistakes a pack than I do playing Outlaw where I feel like I've played decently

A lot of how I feel is likely very very biased

[fallen arch]

Hence its less punishing

[amber mountain]

yep

[wintry mica]

thisll be the week I get a dagger from the vault

[spice spire]

But really

[wintry mica]

for everyone

[frigid kestrel]

Nothing like reading Sin RH in the morning while enjoying my coffee

[spice spire]

Cursed

[wintry mica]

oh shit i actually got something good

[deft obsidian]

When is US reset anyways?

Gimme dem vaults yo

[wintry mica]

5 minutes ago

[deft obsidian]

Screenshots, come one come all.

[wintry mica]

i can link my giga lazy vault from last week

didnt even full clear heroic lol

[deft obsidian]

What you get today? juiiiiice

[wintry mica]

h sylv chest lol

[paper bridge]

is mfd worth it compared to vigor in st?

[manic pebble]

no phial 😦

[wintry mica]

no

almost at 45% crit without ocular now

[dark token]

https://i.imgur.com/y73Zbrg.png

https://tenor.com/Sgrw.gif

week 13 no kt shoulders or dagger

[dawn ivy]

i got a mythic sylv chest so i cant be angry i suppose

[dark token]

i guess sin m+ ring

dont think 252 quantum is ever useful on rogue

[strange python]

Just got 252 iqd and it sims as an upgrade, but I know it's big sim bait. Tempted still

[dawn ivy]

iqd is still kinda good

[fallen arch]

It was big last season

[dark token]

i mean i dont think it ever beats 252 oculuar or 252 guardian trinket in any situation so

[strange python]

Its either 252 iqd or 252 endless howling

[dark token]

last season it was better than raid trinkets

[strange python]

I think it does beat ocular?

And I think it's supposed to be good as sub, no?

[dark token]

https://i.imgur.com/ooqfZuI.png it doesnt

[fallen arch]

It sims higher yes

Dunno if it’s actually better tho

[strange python]

I'm so tempted to take it since we're on farm

And only other vault option is 252 eye chest, but I'll get that eventually anyways

[dark token]

i either get a mastery crit ring for sin/sub m+ (doesnt exist in raid) or 252 cube

[bleak sky]

246 iqd beats 252 gland by 127dps for me on sims

[spice spire]

Mastery crit ring deece for sub, no?

[spice spire]

Frost set?

[bleak sky]

ya

[fallen arch]

For me iqd simmed better too

Necro maybe?

[spice spire]

Cuz gland gains some weird ass boost for frost

[bleak sky]

venthyr

[spice spire]

Oh yeah that could be?

[rocky pecan]

Cauz iqd never see anything else than stats

[dark token]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hkBDDW1qtEeVssd2xqfLzZ

do u have r5 frost

its a 10 dps diff for me

not worth using cube

[bleak sky]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kwWBwjQ2XTZ6MtexoYWVu3

this is me

[dawn ivy]

im gonna go run normal before mythic raid tonight so i have r5 frost

[dark token]

still worse than mythic guardian trinket on both sub/sin so

[fallen arch]

Ye but you never know when you’ll get that

[dark token]

i mean

i got one last week

traded it away

that thing drops like candy

you just need to kill guardian

[fallen arch]

Just need to kill Guardian

[dawn ivy]

our guild actually has only seen one mythic guardian trinket

kinda sad

[strange python]

Is execute worth on iqd for rogue? Was on lock, but not sure if deselecting is better on rogue

[wintry mica]

yes, deselecting is better you should still use the targeting macro

[dark token]

it wins more with vigor build but

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qfB9Fe8mXegHAQMyfiaNMV

cube is pretty cancer to use, 30 dps not worht inconsistency

still worse than the 70 dps from guardian trink

[bleak sky]

just tell your healers to have mana

[rocky pecan]

Even have 3min trinket CD with a 2 min cd classes I don't like tho

Even if you want put on flag it's seems weird

[alpine latch]

I can gain 12 DPS with a belt upgrade. Vault of Disappointment strirkes again.

[dawn ivy]

12 is 12

big time gain

[dark token]

i had 0 for a month so

[alpine latch]

Yeah

I've had two good vaults all patchlong

I got a heroic Fusion Amp one of the first weeks and I snagged a heroic EoN last week. I think my biggest gain outside of that was maybe 25 DPS

[fallen arch]

Weekly Palmer rant incoming

[alpine latch]

You have a lot better gear than I do @dark token

[fallen arch]

F

[alpine latch]

I'm not hurting for gear. I'm in the 10k club

I just need to optimize my Dom sockets.

We haven't had a single pair of gloves from Eye and only 1 helm/shoulders

[bleak sky]

fuck the 10k club

we aim for the 11k club now

[alpine latch]

I can't get 11k without getting into Mythic raiding

We're still not AotC yet. We've replaced like half of our core multiple times this patch

I've been pugging my Sylv kills on the weekends

[alpine latch]

You always say that... I ran 23 m+ last week. Just because I think something could be better doesn't mean I ignore the mode altogether.

[bleak sky]

how bout changing guilds

[alpine latch]

I like my guild

They raid every week no matter what

I have a long way to go before I'd be accepted into a CE guild anyway.

I'm a purple parser at best

[dawn ivy]

honestly, this tier raid loot is so good that i quit doing 10 keys a week at like week 2 or 3 of mythic

[alpine latch]

I was grinding Phial

I'll be doing 4 from here on out just hoping to get a 252 dagger

[dark token]

11k club finally https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ebqkAnnJdZ8bF8MorLEVSy

shard of dyz nuts upgrade pushed me over

[alpine latch]

grats man!

[obtuse robin]

imagine stil not having a phial by the time legion timewalking comes out

[dawn ivy]

T W O

[obtuse robin]

brutal

double farming

[alpine latch]

I bought mine for 200k from a ret pally

[obtuse robin]

lmao

wtf worth

[alpine latch]

It's the first one I saw all patch long

[bleak sky]

doesn't need to be a CE guild

[alpine latch]

I still need an Arachnid Cypher Ring. I gave most of those away

[obtuse robin]

i saw 3 of those drop yesterday in 2 runs

[alpine latch]

Yeah, it's not exactly rare.I'll get one

It's like 40 DPS. It's not the end of the world if I don't have it.

[spice spire]

Triple farm for pox

[mystic fractal]

Ayy heroic dagger in box

[spice spire]

It’s a good time

[alpine latch]

I've been considering going for Pox

[obtuse robin]

[spice spire]

Big gamer drop

[sudden canyon]

IM SO TIRED OF THIS FUCKING VAULT

i literally own all of these

just give me a fucking dagger game

7 weeks

7 fucking weeks

[bleak sky]

happens

[echo cargo]

Gl on all your boxes stabby bois

[dark token]

13 weeks

[bleak sky]

4 chars: 2 bis items; 2 complete garbage itms

i consider that a big win

[sudden canyon]

if this dogshit company didnt wory so much about keeping their players hooked and just didnt allow for fucking duplicates that ring would be a dagger cause i have every other hc sylvanas peice in my bags.

[dark token]

this guy stole all our vault luck for the week

[obtuse robin]

o.o

that just

gave me depression

[shadow tusk]

so many good choices

I'd probably take phial tbh even tho the dagger is (most likely) the bigger upgrade

[obtuse robin]

ur high

[bleak sky]

imagine not taking dagger

[shadow tusk]

I mean

[dark token]

not taking 259 dag

[shadow tusk]

This guy probably has sylv on farm already so he gets 2 chances each week to get dagger

Phial you can only get in vault at 252

[dark token]

i have h sylv on farm and that fucker hasnt dropped this entire time so

[sudden canyon]

yea but you can go months without seein that dagger

[dark token]

id take the 259 dagger since you want 2

the phial is a 70 dps up over 246

who cares

[fallen arch]

Oh boy

[full tide]

259 dagger better than 246 phial ez

[sudden canyon]

id take a 259 dagger and a 246 phial over a 252 phial and no dagger any day

[full tide]

+1

also, what looks sexier? 259 dagger or 252 phial

That's ez

[fallen arch]

Ye phial

[full tide]

yikes

[fallen arch]