And it's like 99% because of the number display style 😛
#assassination
fleet anchor
balmy condor
any maplestory players
oak sky
i played ms2 when that came out
wintry mica
is that still a thing?
oak sky
it was fun for 2weeks
oak sky
all i remember is the dps rotation just being a macro
fleet anchor
Current combat numbers are just so anemic
When I get a Crimson Tempest that crits on 8 targets
It should look cool
But it doesn't
😦
wintry mica
just gotta settle for the 70k frost crits looking cool
thin gate
bring back BFA numbers
oak sky
i dont get r5 until next week
thin gate
or legion kappa
silver osprey
how tf you hittin 70k frost crits
oak sky
oh thats sick
wintry mica
im pretty sure cev said he had one that was like 125k
oak sky
kt cheese 
wintry mica
nah i think it was soulrender
silver osprey
i mean i dont check every pull what my crits are but the highest ive ever seen mine was like 50k
wintry mica
still cheese
wintry mica
so looking at some prog pulls last night it averaged 33k
crit avg was 50k
max was 72k
limber lion
how tf you hittin 70k frost crits
My best is 160k :)
oak sky
wintry mica
was that soulrender?
wintry mica
i still havent tried the soulrender "cheese"
fleet anchor
I mean even getting 80k in ST is not crazy
limber lion
i still havent tried the soulrender "cheese"
Me neither
oak sky
ooh i should check if my boe sold
copper sundial
yeah i hit kt last night for 95k
limber lion
Seeing a 65k normal hit on Sylv is a bit of a 
It's kinda dumb that the effect itself can crit imo
clever kindle
how tf you hittin 70k frost crits
limber lion
It could be so much more consistent and good
wintry mica
when you go in the logs and see winds is like 30% crit
clever kindle
Thats a 100k frost crit
copper sundial
yeah getting unlucky on your frost crits is pepehands
oak sky
ptr is this week right?
fleet anchor
Generally speaking lust should be like easily 80-90k even not using potions or something if you have a good crit rate
silver osprey
lol progging on painsmith yesterday, i checked my dmg after the pull and my frost had 17 hits with only 2 crits
wish i took a screenshot
meanwhile ppl hittin 100k like its nothing
limber lion
fleet anchor
Well any multi-target situation scales very well, but controlling where it goes is tricky
prisma cypress
do any other classes/specs use the frost set?
fleet anchor
Havoc
wintry mica
outlaw also
wintry mica
they have two builds
fleet anchor
Well Havoc has like
wintry mica
momentum and the other one
oak sky
disgusting demon's bite frost right?
fleet anchor
6 builds tbh 🤣
oak sky
🤮
wintry mica
i miss seeing that wft buff
limber lion
I feel like not having a WFT is an uncommon occurence nowadays
oak sky
i got windfury yesterday 😄
fleet anchor
Still very few Enhance players though
wintry mica
I worked hard to recruit a good enh sham and now he cant raid anymore
copper sundial
wish i had a walking wft
oak sky
i get less dps than the prot warrior though lol
wintry mica
im trying to convince one of our 3 hunters to swap
fleet anchor
Enhance is definitely trending up but it's still way on the bottom of parse numbers
limber lion
Yeh for sure
oak sky
it has a lot of variance right?
wintry mica
its viable but people still only bring it for totem
fleet anchor
It also doesn't help that kinda like Balance situation with Feral
Elemental is stupidly good on a lot of fights
wintry mica
yea
oak sky
idk
copper sundial
enhance shaman, kyrian boomy and a pocket pi would be fun xD
oak sky
if double arms warrior is a thing again enh is still stupid good
wintry mica
ours was literally 2 sin rogues, arms war, DH in our WFT group
and now its gone
rip meatgang
wintry mica
yea we had some rets in there for a while since the DH and other rogue were gone
fleet anchor
But like realistically say on Sylv.. there are about 1950 non-Enhance melee parses and 75 Enhance parses... even with only needing a 4:1 ratio, that's a lot of melee without WFT 😛
Only like a 15% coverage rate there
wintry mica
true, the number might be better on lower difficulties though
oak sky
its prob about a quarter of raids
have enhance
when you consider the one or 2 melee each raid probably has without windfury
wintry mica
you could argue that high end guilds are less likely to have someone level and gear a "low tier" class in prep for a raid
fleet anchor
And really as long as most groups are hard stacking Balance+Hunters as expected
It's not a huge priority
obtuse robin
oak sky
i mean high end guilds are using enhance
wintry mica
give me kyrian druid
oak sky
and planning to continue using enhance
wintry mica
yea i think its clear now how strong it is
but I dont know if people predicted it to be really good this tier
fleet anchor
Realistically I don't even think it maths out a lot of the time right now though
fleet anchor
I was really skeptical even in the RWF if Enhance was actually mathing out
wintry mica
if you have a 4 melee group for it i think a good enhance gives more total dps to the raid than a good ele
oak sky
those guys have analysts and whatever
fleet anchor
They do but they also make some odd assessments
oak sky
secret momentum tech
fleet anchor
Like some people seemed to have some theory that WFT was "undersimming" for Havoc
Which I investigated thoroughly with Wordup
And found no evidence of whatsoever 😛
So they were definitely feelcrafting it a bit
wintry mica
yea but how far behind ele is enh really
fleet anchor
It's not really about it being behind Ele as much as like, it's quite a bit behind a lot of other DPS specs
wintry mica
cause even like 1-2% dps on 4 melee is like 400-800 dps right?
assuming people are at 10k
fleet anchor
Like vs just bringing another Rogue or just bringing another Balance Druid
oak sky
my raid doesnt even have an arms warrior and the gain was 1k
wintry mica
i do feel weird having stopped maining my balance druid for this patch now that balance is even more busted
oak sky
i think
fleet anchor
Average Assassination parse does 11% more DPS than the average Enhance parse on Sylv boss damage for example
lavish lichen
Assa is one of the best boss damage specs
wintry mica
true but how many classes are going to compare to our sylv boss damage
i dont think thats a fair comparison
fleet anchor
I mean it's fair when building optimal comps
And average Balance Druid parse is 18% higher than Enhance
So at the end of the day
I'm sure it felt nice for the melee to have WFT
But not actually sure it was optimal tbh
placid pagoda
yo for Slyv HC should i use Vend on pull, p2 slyv first platform and then as soon as shes up on start of p3?
lavish lichen
That’s isn’t exactly needed anymore
fleet anchor
Point being is right now Enhance is still actually doing somewhat poor raw damage
And relying on "compensation" through WFT
Which is a bit sketchy/on the edge of mathing out
If Enhance actually did solid damage it would be brought more consistently
oak sky
i could swear it does pretty good damage
fleet anchor
It basically does roughly the same ST as Elemental but Elemental does omega level AoE
wintry mica
true but if enhance did better damage it would end up being like needed on every group
fleet anchor
I mean I'm not saying I wouldn't bring an Enhance. I'd love to have one in raid. Just explaining why it hasn't really caught on fully.
I think melee is often in this boat
oak sky
all enhance has to do to be worth taking is be like 1500 dps below the top class
lavish lichen
Melee spots are too limited
oak sky
if double arms brings 500 dps each
lavish lichen
I mean not really
oak sky
then the other 2 combined are about 500
lavish lichen
Keep in mind
fleet anchor
Like Havoc for example brings over twice WFT value with their raid buff
But does about the same or higher ST than Enhance
wintry mica
true but its twice the value when effecting 4x the players right?
fleet anchor
Yeah
fleet anchor
I mean make Enhance buff Balance Druids and Hunters and then they'd be in comp all day long 🤣
wintry mica
hey they can buff hunters
oak sky
i definitely believe enhance is worth with double arms
wintry mica
the true hunters
vocal stone
Can any big dick Assa maybe check my logs from today and tell me if i do smth big wrong?
fleet anchor
I mean same can really be said about Survival
Survival is a good spec
Still never gets played
Melee things
wintry mica
its not worth playing ST over the other specs
its more difficult to play and you are melee instead of ranged lol
fleet anchor
This was the best tier for melee in a long time and it still was dominated by ranged specs lol
wintry mica
true
oak sky
except it wasn't?
wintry mica
boomy is still the most played dps in raid last i checked
but i think arms was catching up
oak sky
its a popular class
wintry mica
I assume he means like RWF top tier guilds
oak sky
random mythic guilds like ours bring whatever they want
fleet anchor
I'm talking comp
sharp zodiac
Legit my team has been 7/7 split the entire raid
fleet anchor
Classes being good is one thing, but people are still bringing ranged-focused comps
sharp zodiac
Not really?
wintry mica
true and a lot of RWF revolved around dom socket drops
fleet anchor
Arms is catching up to Balance but Balance's 25% lead on Arms parses is still one of the most historically high parse count advantages of all time across all recorded instances in logs. 😛
oak sky
and echo was similar
sharp zodiac
Classes being good is one thing, but people are still bringing ranged-focused co...
Most comps have been 7/7
wintry mica
my raid group is definitely ranged dominated lol
sharp zodiac
I make sure to always tell my boomy to go fuck himself before we pull and if he tops meters
wintry mica
but we are shitters
sharp zodiac
Gotta keep them in check
fleet anchor
wintry mica
yea so hunters and druids are still most popular by a good margin
mage is up there too i guess if we are combining specs
fleet anchor
So this is a tier where a number of melee are actually top performing specs
And melee-friendly(ish) mechanics
And raid groups are still very heavy ranged focused in general
wintry mica
are those all mythic parses in the last 2 weeks or what
fleet anchor
Kinda shows how far melee has to be overtuned to really end up being dominant in comp
fleet anchor
I think saying "most" raid groups are 7/7 is not really accurate based on parse and log figures
There's really no way for there to be 37% more ranged parses than melee parses if most groups are 7/7
fleet anchor
Later bosses are like 8-9 ranged, earlier bosses are like 7-8 ranged
wintry mica
37% more ranged parses means the average has to be between 8-9 ranged per pull
placid pagoda
my SBS is bugged on sluv
fleet anchor
I don't think this has been a bad tier for melee, just kinda goes to be an example
placid pagoda
stuck on 30sec CD
wintry mica
assuming every boss is 2-4-14
fleet anchor
Of like even everything going well for melee and ranged are still skewed
wintry mica
stuck on 30sec CD
are you currently watching the cutscene
placid pagoda
are you currently watching the cutscene
nobe
was p2 on slyv
Bone spiked her whilst immune and now its stuck on CD timer
fleet anchor
Hmm never seen that issue
fleet anchor
I have quite a few pulls on Sylv and never had any problems with the cooldowns or resets so I would guess it has something to do with the intermission cutscene freeze
half tartan
Could you guys put a number on what Vendetta Vanish are worth over the 20s window? 200k-300k is what i’m figuring
limber lion
Then there's shit like this
This was the entire M Sylv kill that we just did
R5 frost, losing to Envenom
33% crit rate
Equipped crit is 48%
fleet anchor
Could you guys put a number on what Vendetta Vanish are worth over the 20s windo...
Are you trying to isolate the value of Vendetta itself, or how much you'll do in that time period total?
half tartan
Yeah Isolating its value for balancing
fleet anchor
I mean it'll be way lower than that
wintry mica
you can just grab a couple of logs and add up total damage done during the window
plain thistle
Then there's shit like this
get good
fleet anchor
At best you could expect to do like 14-18k DPS during CDs, minus trinket value, and 20% of that
Trinkets gonna be like 10%+ of your damage in that window
half tartan
Ty should be able to work it out
half tartan
Im estimating around 500k total damage in a 30s window
wintry mica
I assume vendetta does not increase frost proc damage?
oak sky
Vendetta only does class stuff
fleet anchor
It doesn't double dip
You can still include it in the total since it is attributed to increasing the initial value though
half tartan
Crazy boomkins can do 8-900k in a 30-35s window
oak sky
And most of that is in the last 5 seconds or something crazy
Their full ramp is like a minute right?
fleet anchor
I mean Balance Druid cooldowns are maybe one of the most broken things they've ever added to the game
wintry mica
its like 35 seconds i think?
fleet anchor
So comparing to that is kinda folly imo 😛
wintry mica
my boomy will be night fae again in about an hour
fleet anchor
Somehow I feel like the designers and even some Balance players have convinced themselves that doing "only" burst damage rather than sustained damage is somehow a downside despite being almost universally upside in 99.99999999% of cases 🤣
wintry mica
no you do them both together but i think most of the damage happens in the extension buff for like 6 seconds or w/e at the end of frenzy
sharp zodiac
Im estimating around 500k total damage in a 30s window
Check M KT remnant logs
wintry mica
when you have max stacks on haste and crit
oak sky
Oh got it
sharp zodiac
Or just KT P4 burn
fleet anchor
If you have 2-3 Balance Druids KT P4 isn't even a phase
wintry mica
I stopped playing boomie this tier, went back and did the venthyr swap and playing without the leggo feels so bad that im just going to go back night fae until 9.1.5 lol
probably play feral
fleet anchor
Everyone else may as well just start looting the boss
sharp zodiac
If you have 2-3 Balance Druids KT P4 isn't even a phase
We only have 1 
half tartan
Were going into it with 2 booms 2 ferals pepega
wintry mica
it was weird, we had 3 boomies last tier
fleet anchor
Any fight with hard phase transitions that can be timing-controlled is just so busted for yuge CDs like that
half tartan
Yeah its great
oak sky
Just doesnt bring anything
wintry mica
i swapped back to rogue and the other one got sat for low damage on his mage
hey they got roar
and
uhh
oak sky
Not innervate
thin gate
guys is sylvanas mount 100% dropchance atm? and how many drop per run?
oak sky
And not sick spread cleave
wintry mica
i believe its still 100% drop 1 per run on mythic
pale plank
I was the boomie for my raid group, but I swapped to sin lmao
wintry mica
same
oak sky
Give feral innervate 
pale plank
It’s just not fun to play
wintry mica
i only played boomy cause sin was booty on SL release
wintry mica
i was hoping 9.1 would shift them away from only doing damage during CDs and then doing tank damage for 2.5 min
but nope
sharp zodiac
LOL
wintry mica
even more extreme lmao
wintry mica
we heard you liked all your damage condensed into 10% of the time you are playing
oak sky
And in that time you spam one button
wintry mica
i mean i wont knock venth druids
theres some insane optimization you can do with it
like the m+ prepull shenanigans can be insane
half tartan
fleet anchor
Mine was filtered to boss damage
So those Boomies were actually padding more than ours
They are "only" 15k on boss damage
Our boomie was 32k overall in that phase 🤣
fleet anchor
I mean it is boring sure, but this is kinda what I mean
That Balance players have convinced themselves that this is somehow a detriment/downside
It's not
It's like
all upside lol
"Oh you mean I can do mechanics and literally give zero shits about my rotation for most of the fight and not lose any DPS"
"Cool"
sharp zodiac
Damn it’s like you’re just constantly playing M KT on every fight
I’d legit die because I’d be so bored doing other shit
fleet anchor
"And occasionally we can absolutely break prio damage phases or phase transitions?"
Sounds great!
It's totally busted haha
Like the only way it would be balanced would be if the overall DPS was actually lower than average
But the fact that they do crazy burst but also end up being about the same overall DPS
Is 100% upside
Historically you have to give up a lot of overall to have such strong CDs
But these CDs are so strong it's impossible to balance.. they'd have to do like.. 2k dps outside of CDs 🤣
wintry mica
yea its actually great
our moonkin is a total mechanic simp for 5/6ths of the fight basically
pale plank
Damn u almost double that feral with same ilvl?
half tartan
Its not me I filtered similar comp to my guild
wintry mica
still
fleet anchor
That is very strong/good RNG.. but that Balance DPS isn't amazing
wintry mica
did feral blow CDs on something before p3?
half tartan
Maybe they were padding fucks lol icant check in depth at work on phone
fleet anchor
I mean the Rogue there has PI
half tartan
I selected only kel thuzad dps
static glacier
That Balance players have convinced themselves that this is somehow a detriment/...
It’s in most cases an upside but at times it most certainly is a downside
fleet anchor
Giving PI to a Rogue instead of a Balance Druid in that phase is kinda non-optimal tbh
Well very non-optimal, not even kinda haha
fleet anchor
It’s in most cases an upside but at times it most certainly is a downside
Very rarely a downside though. Can almost always plan CDs around a fight to take advantage. Way more often than not.
pale plank
Well very non-optimal, not even kinda haha
Agree, I can’t think of a better class than to PI a balance Druid
half tartan
Maybe if they arent padding? They maybe saw their boomkin wasnt focusing boss
Or they assigned boomkin add control?
Boomkin did 24k overall
wintry mica
is everyone just using quick decisions as their 2nd upgraded conduit
i guess the range doesnt matter that much
burnt star
^
wintry mica
yea I figure its the only option with any real upside in a raid
half tartan
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7c94RmXhk6DL3Yqv#fight=11&type=damage-done&phase=3&target=114 27k boom 23k unh last phase boss damage o.O
clever perch
Best domination shards for assa raid?
wowhead says blue
but warcraftlogs players use purple
alpine latch
That really depends on your gear. Best we can say is "sim it"
half tartan
Due to it being ahead by a decent margin end game it’s generally not the worst idea to go frost for Assassin if you have long term goals in lieu of short term goals
limber lion
but warcraftlogs players use purple
?
Link me logs where people are using unholy shards
All the top logs are generally done with frost shards.
half tartan
I still don’t get why WCL doesn’t show dom gems on the browse screens
limber lion
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/28#class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&dif...
?
Where are the dom shards
fleet anchor
??
plain thistle
hmmm no
clever perch
mm
spice spire
That’s not necessarily correct 
fleet anchor
I mean really at the end of the day
fleet anchor
Some people are staying UH because they already got UH R5
round swift
Weekly noob/stupid ass question here. If I’m running DB, should I technically be running Necro and is that a change I should look to possibly make in 9.1.5 and if so does that mean I should rock the unholy set?
spice spire
Frost is going to be best for necro regardless
fleet anchor
before Blizzard jebaited everyone
limber lion
Frost just sims quite a bit better, even as a Necro currently.
There is no reason to go unholy if you're sitting at r1 shards for both.
round swift
That answers that part of the question.
limber lion
Weekly noob/stupid ass question here. If I’m running DB, should I technically be...
If you run DB, you still go Venthyr.
But you shouldn't really think that way
spice spire
Weekly noob/stupid ass question here. If I’m running DB, should I technically be...
If you’re running db venthyr is still better. And frost still best. Even with dashing simming better overall, venthyr is still best
limber lion
You should think the other way
Which covenant do I want to play?
And which legendary do we use for each covenant?
And the answer to both is;
The same for every covenant
If you use Frost, you run Dashing or Doomblade
If you use Unholy, you run Doomblade (or Obedience as Venthyr)
clever perch
Frost is going to be best for necro regardless
alright thank u
i was little confussed xD
round swift
I just finally got my last frost shard and my UH shards are R4
clever perch
i opened 2 logs of necro assa and both were using purple thats why xD
limber lion
You should think about the long picture
round swift
@limber lion thank you
limber lion
Do you want to pump the maximum amount of dps after a few weeks?
subtle tundra
i opened 2 logs of necro assa and both were using purple thats why xD
the big sample size
limber lion
Or do you want to see big spikes now?
fleet anchor
I mean also sometimes stats affect things, how much crit you have, etc.
limber lion
If you want more overall dps in the long run, Frost is the play.
If you don't want to grind embers/soul ash and whatnot, stick to Unholy.
It's not that big of a deal at the end of the day.
round swift
I’m just trying to pump as hard as possible (without running Dashing) to help my guild. So if frost will still be the play in the long run, I’ll build it up.
dark jewel
on mythic sylvanas do we just always vendetta sylvanas burn during p2?
fleet anchor
Depends on your group strategy
slow marsh
I’m just trying to pump as hard as possible (without running Dashing) to help my...
this doesn't make sense. without dashing lol
fleet anchor
Usually most groups will allocate some CDs to first platform in P2
slow marsh
so you want to pump as hard as you can playing suboptimally is what you're saying. it doesn't make sense
fleet anchor
You allocate some to first platform and some to boss. It just depends on how the assignments end up being.
round swift
so you want to pump as hard as you can playing suboptimally is what you're sayin...
I want to do as much as possible while still keeping to the playstyle I like. I prefer bleeds over poisons.
half tartan
Wouldn’t it be irrelevant since our legendaries are passive?
dark jewel
yeah, I was assigned to vendetta first platform but most of the logs I was looking the rogues used cds on burn, well guess I cd souljudge
slow marsh
I want to do as much as possible while still keeping to the playstyle I like. I ...
so do you raid without poisons on ?
clever perch
so do you raid without poisons on ?
whats the point on doing this xD?
round swift
Man, nobody else has had an issue with my wanting to run doomblades so I don’t know why you are. I just wanted to know how to maximize my dps while running my legendary of choice. Obviously I use poisons. Stop being a dickhead.
clever perch
some roleplay shit?
slow marsh
Its just kinda trolling to say you want to pump as hard as you can while playing suboptimally based on role play
doom blade and dashing literally have the same exact play style
round swift
@limber lion you answered my question. Thank you.
old galleon
any of you know, but because you seen it, not that you have idea, if sylvanas's dagger can be dropped in the weekly quest?
slow marsh
Like if you want to play sub-optimally it doesn't really matter and i could care less. Doom blade is fine, it's more the attitude of 'i'm trying to pump as hard as possible [while ignoring options that make me pump harder]' is tilting to me
pale plank
pale plank
any of you know, but because you seen it, not that you have idea, if sylvanas's...
Yes it can from what I have been told, but never seen it yet
wintry mica
I'm inclined to believe it cant drop from the chest since i've never seen even a single ss to prove it
slow marsh
same xD
old galleon
the thing is, if you look for the chest in wowhead, the dagger is not there
wintry mica
I dont think ive even seen any sylv or KT drops in the chest
old galleon
also, if you look for the dagger, it doesnt say it can be dropped in the chest, the other items that arent from the two last bosses, say: can be contained in bla bla bla
wintry mica
true but drop rates on wowhead aren't always that accurate
old galleon
yes, thats why i thought ab asking here
wintry mica
but yea youd think at least ONE person would have proof of it happening by now
i think its safe to assume that the chest being marked as 226 means its only first 8 bosses
old galleon
yes
wintry mica
im just glad its normal and not heroic for timewalking
glass tulip
I feel like since it says it drops a 226 item then end boss loot would be excluded
wintry mica
or id be doing it just for the tiny chance lol
static glacier
Very rarely a downside though. Can almost always plan CDs around a fight to take...
for sure, as a longtime former boomie player anyone trying to argue that it's not top 2-3 specs if not the best is delusional.
wintry mica
I feel like i remember seeing you in boomie disc last tier lol
limber lion
any of you know, but because you seen it, not that you have idea, if sylvanas's...
Yes.
glass tulip
The main problem with boomy is that with venthyr being the new frontrunner it is significantly tougher to play to that "top 2-3" class level
static glacier
yeah, I was fairly active. I still answer questions occasionally.
honestly, it's not
wintry mica
Yes.
wait so you can get the dagger from the weekly?
yea venthyr boomie difficulty is overblown
static glacier
people just go full on unga bunga me stare at WA mode
wintry mica
its not as easy as convoke thats for sure
glass tulip
According to my guilds boomies switching it isnt the same thing at least lol.
dont want to get into specifics because i dont care
wintry mica
you have so much AP to move with its really not that bad
cerulean raft
guys i just got Titanic Ocular Gland 252. got phial and fusion both at 239. should i change? it sims higher but...
wintry mica
guys i just got Titanic Ocular Gland 252. got phial and fusion both at 239. shou...
you already answered your own question
old galleon
the thing is, before, in BFA, the chest said: raid heroic/normal, now it says the item level
static glacier
guys i just got Titanic Ocular Gland 252. got phial and fusion both at 239. shou...
you can check your past logs and look at your hp % throughout the fight to caclulate uptime.e
glass tulip
Same thing I said earlier today: it is better to replace one of the trinks but I would not personally for comfort reasons
wintry mica
even on prog you should be getting like 90+% uptime on the buff for most fights
glass tulip
uptime averages ~85% according to whispyr
static glacier
give or take
wintry mica
i think that was a low end estimate for prog bosses
static glacier
I've seen many in the 90s
static glacier
tbh most important parts is during lust / vendetta windows
cerulean raft
ye
wintry mica
whats the actual buff called again im checking my raids logs for uptime
heres a crappy soulrender prog pull i found
cerulean raft
guess i just have to try
glass tulip
is the count on that one how many times it procced the debuff?
main hearth
The stat changes also through out the fight as well
slow marsh
ocular gland is nuts for sin you should for sure run it
half tartan
Did you guys interrupt // stun // etc on banshees or tank adds on KT?
glass tulip
tank adds yes
wintry mica
i am never outside doing adds on KT
oh tank adds
yes
shadowstep interrupt does a lot of work on that fight if your ranged dps are scrubs
half tartan
Is mest up interrupts / remnant the largest gatekeepr in prog?
glass tulip
Remnant the fight or remnant a mechanic of something?
oh on KT in the intermission phase?
half tartan
Deaths / not meeting DPS on remnant
glass tulip
We aren't on KT yet but we have never had an issue on dps on the remnant
For us its a lot of messed up positioning or a healer getting rocked by a mechanic
Speaking of which, anyone know of any good priests? 🤣
clever perch
does frost shards work better than unholy in every boss?
glass tulip
I don't see any good reason why it would change boss to boss, what makes you ask that question?
wintry mica
I cant think of any fights I would swap to r5 unholy over r5 frost for, but maybe there is a niche case
clever perch
st - aoe
glass tulip
if anything frost is always better for the 1k+ hps
wintry mica
yea frost for prog is definitely better
also no one brings a sin rogue to a raid for their aoe damage
glass tulip
I only pugged heroic today but I am coming right below tanks for hps
Yeah we are multidotting but thats about it
wintry mica
yea i usually just get beat by any dps with r5 blood
glass tulip
finally hit the 10k club today so thats a feelsgoodman
glass tulip
what is that
wintry mica
the talents
wintry mica
same, i just swapped for the sim to break 10k lol
its fun on guardian if you get a decent amount of procs
but thats the only boss its worth using on
glass tulip
oh really? I feel like just energy starved all the time without vigor
wintry mica
its not too bad since you get free ambushes
you only have 10% less energy throughout the fight
glass tulip
hm
young dawn
Hey Guys,
I have a 239 Dagger in main hand and Edge of the Night (233) in off hand. Is it better to take Edge of the Night in main hand or does it no matter?
glass tulip
sim it
glass tulip
always higher ilvl main hand tbh
young dawn
Thank you. 👍
glass tulip
pretty sure that is how damage is calculated
wintry mica
yea theres never a case where you would do a lower ilvl wep in mh
glass tulip
I am planning on trying bs/ds for soulrender prog
glass tulip
oh really? I thought that talent build was better for some aoe
young dawn
Okay. Thank you. Much appreciate it.
wintry mica
nah bs/ds is only worth taking on pure ST
glass tulip
gotcha
wintry mica
which is why its only used on guardian
glass tulip
I see
wintry mica
we cant use swords
glass tulip
^
old halo
cool, more crit it is then XD
wintry mica
that and i think weapon dps is a lot lower than stats on gear
like your 252 dagger is only 58.6 weapon dps
but stat weights kinda garbo anyway just stack that crit
glass tulip
I'm doing my 1 minute raiding dummy test rn
460k for EP/vigor
first bs/ds was also 455k so I'm trying again
wintry mica
keep in mind test dummy will never drop into execute range for BS
glass tulip
yeah 450k again but thats a good point. I havent even used ambush in so long
like probably months
wintry mica
yea I only put it on a keybind for guardian at this point
i just checked and im 9950 with ep/vig 10100 with bs/ds
so close
glass tulip
are you mythic raiding?
glass tulip
same. our roster isnt even "finalized" since we still have some shaky players
at 3/10 rn with 20% on nerzhul
wintry mica
yea we split from our old guild and reformed in 9.1
glass tulip
I was going to ask if you would send your warcraftlogs so I could check them out for reference
wintry mica
and then had 3 weeks where one or both of our tanks were on vacation
glass tulip
I like seeing logs that are around my level instead of trying to study top 50 logs lol
wintry mica
you can find someone much better than me to compare yourself to lmao
glass tulip
Not for comparison, just to see if we have the same patterns
that's mostly what I look for
violet jackal
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/66d67xosMqfwTiEiU5dYHo
why does dashing scoudrel sim less for me?
42 crit 16 haste 15 mastery 9 versatility
winged moss
Bec you r necro
violet jackal
what is it venthyr gets that make it better? is it the extra haste?
spice spire
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/66d67xosMqfwTiEiU5dYHo
why does dashing ...
Frost set too?
violet jackal
yup
spice spire
Mobile cba to check
That’s definitely strange
Wait
Add the BS/DS talents into the mix
I’m driving home
But 99% sure with vigor too it creates a bit of overcap
violet jackal
overcapped on energy? noway I feel so starved right now
spice spire
Try to sim it with those talents 😛 I can’t rn but if you don’t I shall when home
idle star
Dashing works better with venth and the nadja soulbind and with EP + Vigor
cursive silo
violet jackal
<@!154263556882169856>
i wish
glass tulip
I saw your name on someones team
which guild are you?
Oh you're the key guy! That's what it was. Yo're top arthas Sin rogue on RaiderIO
balmy condor
the ninjapanda himself
balmy condor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/66d67xosMqfwTiEiU5dYHo
why does dashing ...
but yeh, this is just necro
violet jackal
Try to sim it with those talents 😛 I can’t rn but if you don’t I shall when hom...
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3FQ8FzkMwQGByKcj8NYytf yes blindside comes out ahead
violet jackal
I saw your name on someones team
i'm in Safe Haven super casual guild. I joined voltage for like a month mainly was benched and then brought in on early progression on laters bosses and then somehow miraculously benched on the kill pulls
I was top M+ sin rogue but others were able to start pushing with groups and I get denied from every 20 T_T
glass tulip
I stick with 17s, good challenge but don't have to try too hard
My guildies do a lot of 20s but eh
pale plank
Honestly it’s pretty easy to get 2000+
violet jackal
i'm at 2265 I justwant the portals
pale plank
Sitting at 2045 I don’t need anything anymore
idle star
Honestly it’s pretty easy to get 2000+
Probably with time. What does 2000 need? Timed 15's in fort AND tyran?
balmy condor
yeh
you can kinda do a 16 or a 17 and then slack on a 13 or a 12 somewhere else
and it kinda evens out
mostly 15's and some 14's does it too I think
idle star
Yeh. Im subject to the pug train. And as ive seen, even when i take 2k+ score players you will still get baddies or ragers etc
balmy condor
I got 2k and was missing tyrannical on 2 dungeons
KSM this tier is much easier than previous KSM's tbh
idle star
I had a 16 key i pugged. I took all 2100-2300 players. The 2200 mage was pulling 5.3k dps.... like... dude.
balmy condor
yeah just bad group
this was a 16 I pugged earlier today with my tank friend
tank is 232
idle star
Which dungeon?
balmy condor
we missed +2 by around a minute
had a wipe though due to some bad pulls
uh
think was necrotic
pale plank
Sub?
wintry mica
I shoulda saved my ss from last week I joined a random no leaver halls and a frost mage pulled 12.5k overall
pale plank
Lmao I mean my guild kinda carried me so I can’t complain
oblique parcel
Finally swapped to Venth/Dashing any major gameplay differences/prioties?
wintry mica
theres a little section in the FAQ about flag usage
dashing doesnt change your playstyle from doomblade
besides what no CT on ST?
limber lion
Yeh, but it's kinda whatever with doomblade already
balmy condor
Sub?
Yuh bruther
Sub supremacy
Cev and seli in shambles
Picking themselves off the floor
pure moth
I tried sub the other day... wasn't pretty.
storm sphinx
Hey guys, question might be dumb. Does dashing scoundrel benefit from trinckets or covenants that deal nature damage or does it only work with the lethal poisons of the rogue?
wintry mica
it only buffs our poisons
storm sphinx
aw man, thanks brother
wintry mica
gotta play sub if you want class buffs affecting other things
pale plank
Yuh bruther
How sub for m+ I flex outlaw for M+, but heard black powder(I think that’s what it’s called) is OP
tiny saddle
Sbs affects doomblade and execute lego tho
balmy condor
How sub for m+ I flex outlaw for M+, but heard black powder(I think that’s what ...
Yeah I mean it’s about as good as outlaw
If you’re a good outlaw you’re not missing out on much
fleet anchor
KSM this tier is much easier than previous KSM's tbh
Easier yet more annoying at the same time in an odd way lol
wintry mica
if you look at top timed runs theres plenty of subs mixed in with the outlaw in the 25+ keys
balmy condor
Easier yet more annoying at the same time in an odd way lol
Yeah kinda weird looking at your io and going “huh next week I guess”
fleet anchor
Yeah like I “missed” a few key combos and it’s like oh well
I guess I wait
But on the other hand
wintry mica
yea that was kind of annoying
balmy condor
I was on track for a week 2 KSM and then realized I missed 3 keys on fort that first week
And then sat there at like 1900
fleet anchor
Timing 15s is pretty trivial
balmy condor
Twiddling my thumbs
wintry mica
the hardest part of doing a 15 right now is group finder
fleet anchor
So it’s just a matter of patience
tiny saddle
And then you finally find a group that happens to be from ragnaros and they leave you mid key
wintry mica
lol I try my best to just do keys with guildies and only pug if i have to to finish out vault slots
fleet anchor
I actually stopped swapping Sub for keys because it really doesn’t matter and someone has to kill bosses anyway
It’s shocking how ass most Mage/WW/Balance Druids are on boss damage
fleet anchor
So far the only one to beat me in overall damage this week as Assassination
Was this SV Hunter
fleet anchor
Who was omega pump
fleet anchor
I do Cev’s favorite cursed thing and run Dashing in keys too
fleet anchor
Because like I cba to swap and I’m probably not gonna waste Cinders on Zold
wintry mica
feel like if you are only doing 15-16s trash dies so fast on tyrannical weeks that you dont get as much value out of zolldyck
fleet anchor
One thing I did notice that was funny about AoE
I never won on mass AoE vs Mages and Monks as expected
But man the 3-4T pulls
I just totally smoked them
wintry mica
thats our time to shine
fleet anchor
It wasn’t even close lol
wintry mica
especially if you pop vanish
wintry mica
i could see frost being troll on some affixes though
just get a frost proc crit and all of the sudden everything is bolstered or w/e
tiny saddle
Loool
wintry mica
but also youd think people would run unholy set in m+ if they could probably
hollow river
I do Cev’s favorite cursed thing and run Dashing in keys too
i tried this too, not that bad imo.
wintry mica
I feel like everytime i try something "new" in m+ its too hard to tell if my dps went up or down because of what i was trying or just the nature of the group and pulls
fleet anchor
I mean it’s a lot of poison damage
hollow river
and i learned all over again that subterfuge is almost pointless without a tank who knows not to just chain pull every pull.
fleet anchor
And realistically Raymuss probably you will never see a difference
idle star
Dinished my heroic gear set last night and pulled a 239 amplifier!
hollow river
prot warriors for example
idle star
Finished*
wintry mica
nice
hollow river
bum rush after every pack/boss
fleet anchor
Difference between legendaries is small enough that group strats will dominate
hollow river
=no subterfuge
wintry mica
Dinished my heroic gear set last night and pulled a 239 amplifier!
im still stuck needing all 3 sylv drops and nothing else from heroic lol
wintry mica
=no subterfuge
at least no spiteful this week
hollow river
true
wintry mica
although you can usually get stealth if you stay back and finish off the spiteful
even if they chain pull
hollow river
i've found running outlaw to be less infuriating. lol
idle star
I changed guilds. Went from clearing heroic in 2 hours in a mythic guild to progging heroic Fatescribe and wiping all night. Im happier now tbh
wintry mica
nice
no point raiding if you dont enjoy it
we reformed out guild because our leader and his friends were all terrible to play with and our group is much happier even if it slowed us down this tier
idle star
The mythic guild loot counciled everything in heroic to mythic raiders. I was just a number to them
tiny saddle
A good guild makes the game so much more enjoyable, even if they arent the best players
wintry mica
lol we dont even have loot council for mythic runs
hollow river
yeah thats just a bad guild
like certain pieces is understandable
if they go up for roll
wintry mica
if people need a loot council to tell them to trade gear to help out their teammates i wouldnt want to raid with them
idle star
What made it worse is they let us heroic raiders roll on the gear, THEN took the winning roll off us and handed it to someone else
wintry mica
yea thats stupid
fleet anchor
That’s kinda bad people management too
wintry mica
unless its made clear from the getgo that loot is being funnel to certain people
tiny saddle
Mhm
fleet anchor
Sometimes full full loot council isn’t about optimal distribution but also making sure people are happy. If you don’t allocate enough around people just won’t come to runs to funnel.
wintry mica
yea
fleet anchor
I think some prio can be ok. But it’s important to balance
wintry mica
i do kind of miss master looter
idle star
Our raid lead was only letting heroic raiders who could trade helms stay for Nerzuul and the rest hadto leave when we were progging heroic early on. Lol
wintry mica
weve DE'd so many plate dom sockets this tier already
obsidian socket
why do we want sinful on mainhand dagger
wintry mica
and had our shadow priest didnt get unholy set until patch yesterday
fleet anchor
Loot isn’t just about managing BiS but also managing player motivation too
wintry mica
and hes full cleared every week at least normal if not normal and heroic
spice spire
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3FQ8FzkMwQGByKcj8NYytf yes blindside come...
What can I say sometimes I’m 600Head but most of the time, I’m a real 
idle star
Yeh our raid lead was just waybtoo absorbed by mythic prog and helping his team.. sad
fleet anchor
why do we want sinful on mainhand dagger
Doesn’t matter which hand your enchants are on
balmy condor
@fleet anchor can I run a frost set now idk if I have enough crit
fleet anchor
Nice
wintry mica
disgusting
tiny saddle
Wtf
wintry mica
is that a pox offhand
obsidian socket
<@!116203458129821697> can I run a frost set now idk if I have enough crit
dude what the fuck
fleet anchor
Dude what’s with that mastery
balmy condor
is that a pox offhand
sylv dagger doesn't have crit, so I vendored it
obsidian socket
Doesn’t matter which hand your enchants are on
sims keep doing a switch on me
wintry mica
lmao
idle star
Thats a proc running
hollow river
ok thats sub
balmy condor
yeah it's with a 236 iqd as well
idle star
You cant have that much crit with only gear
balmy condor
hollow river
i was about to say
wintry mica
wait does sub actually run sword offhand now
hollow river
no
hollow river
this seems to be a meme
balmy condor
just afk in oribos
idle star
Need waay more haste lol
fleet anchor
Haha what’s your rating?
balmy condor
1430
wintry mica
28% mastery 
idle star
Im at 42% crit 14% haste atm as sin. 240ilvl.
hollow river
im at 45%
wintry mica
prob different for sub but the heroic Kt shoulders outsim the mythic non crit
hollow river
and sims have started to suggest gear with haste again
wintry mica
for me
hollow river
they do for me too raymuss
balmy condor
idle star
Nadja is only 50 dps ahead for me atm
hollow river
and H painsmith legs > kt legs for me
wintry mica
yea its recommending i replace the nine boots with the guardian boots but im like nah
hollow river
yeah thats a tiny dps increase for me aswell
wintry mica
yea its like 10 dps or something
hollow river
yep
balmy condor
@spice spire any guessers
wintry mica
until crit from nadjia
balmy condor
75%?
hollow river
i find myself feeling slower with dashing
spice spire
<@!226508540746006528> any guessers
114
hollow river
idk why
wintry mica
are we guessing your crit?
balmy condor
yes
spice spire
Just gonna go way overboard
wintry mica
the real secret
fleet anchor
Can I take screenshots with Marrowed Gemstone then? 🤔
balmy condor
spice spire
Keep rerolling powers until you get 4 12% crit buffs
balmy condor
Can I take screenshots with Marrowed Gemstone then? 🤔
only if you can beat that
tiny saddle
Wtf x2
idle star
Is that will fatal and iqd?
balmy condor
yeah
idle star
Nice
wintry mica
im 99% sure you cant stack multiple of the same power on tarra
spice spire
Then you lust + IQD for insta one shot secret tech
fleet anchor
Gemstone is +18%
idle star
I had 30% agi, 30% dmg and 2 procs last night. Was at 22k dps at 40% and died...
wintry mica
yea i did heroic on tuesday
balmy condor
Keep rerolling powers until you get 4 12% crit buffs
wintry mica
was over 20k until someone stunned me for 10 seconds with 10 of towers
hollow river
I had 30% agi, 30% dmg and 2 procs last night. Was at 22k dps at 40% and died.....
need the fear immune for real dps
😄
wintry mica
still ended at like 145 for sin though lol
hollow river
i get the 30% agi/30% dmg every time and take the fear immune
idle star
The stars alligned for me and i get hit by chains... like.. fml
hollow river
ez
wintry mica
ive changed my stance to think that acid gland is probably the best power
fleet anchor
It is
idle star
The dmg shout pumps too
wintry mica
yea howler is busted
fleet anchor
Probably followed by the bleed one and howl
wintry mica
i dont think the bleed one is that great tbh
over huddled carvings or elethium weights
idle star
The 10% leech one kept up with my melee and envenom dmg last night
idle star
30% dmg, 30% agi, acid amd lumbering and just dont tell a soul
spice spire
fleet anchor
Diffuser has really high upside
But you have to mega game it
And get mucho stacks of shit
wintry mica
isnt lumbering only like 10% damage or something
or no thats 10 of towers
that one is a bait
really what you need is lots of simp beams
idle star
Im kinda doing poorly on sin compared to sub. Pulling 80-90 as sin but 95+ on sub... my rotstion and opener are solid af and cd usage timings are good.. maybe just too much gear to compete against?
wintry mica
you could giga stack someone with multiple simp beams
wintry mica
yea twisted samophlange is the name i think
easily the best overall power for the raid
but its simps only that take it lo
idle star
Are a lot of sin rogues already using rank 5 frost?
wintry mica
unless they upgraded unholy to r5 i think most are catching back up to r5 frost around now
fleet anchor
Yeah should be
wintry mica
i got mine this week after going to r4 unholy originally
idle star
Yeh my unholy was rank 4. Im about 2 weeks away still from rank 5 frost
fleet anchor
I got my R5 this week after being baited
tiny saddle
Yeh my unholy was rank 4. Im about 2 weeks away still from rank 5 frost
Im in the same boat as you
idle star
Im not doing mythic or last 3 bosses of heroic anymore tho
wintry mica
why skip last 3 of heroic?
tiny saddle
Why?
wintry mica
ah
idle star
Was downing heroic sylv within 2 hours
wintry mica
i would still pug it if i was you
i did a pug yesterday
we wiped 4 times on KT
people were about to disband
2 shot sylv
idle star
Nice
wintry mica
i was like how do you do worse on KT than sylv
idle star
Yeh i had a few chances at the 246 sylv dagger but now. No chance
wintry mica
yep ive got 0 of her drops so far
tiny saddle
I love my guild but some of the members are new to the game so they struggle. Theyre progging fate right now as well
But pugging isnt that bad
idle star
Our biggest issue with fate is ppl doing the rings. Rings are just getting flat out forgotten...
wintry mica
It’s so much easier in a small group too
Yea rings can be rough if people aren’t good at communicating either
tiny saddle
Wait raymuss what time did you do the kt>sylvanas run?
dusty sable
wintry mica
I did it on Tuesday afternoon
tiny saddle
Cause me and a guildie pugged tuesday afternoon and the group wiped about the same amount of time
idle star
Ive pretty much hit the ceiling for gearing. 241ilvl as a non mythic raider.
Unless i get lucky with 252 off peices from weekly
tiny saddle
But we left after the kill cause we figured if they struggled that much on kt the sylvanas wouldve been a nightmare
wintry mica
Nah I don’t think that was the same group then, unless you weren’t on ur rogue
We had some DH and a healer leave after KT I think
oak sky
Once cross realm unlocks you can probably pug a few mythic bosses even
tiny saddle
Oh probably wasnt us then. I only play rogue
oak sky
First 3 are really easy to pug
tiny saddle
Duuuude ive been looking for a mythic group on malganis
wintry mica
yea I think first 3 will be doable so you can pug up to a vault option at least
rain patio
how does Assassin stack up compared to Outlaw from an m+ point of view? Still gearing my rogue, but 15s feel very meh as Outlaw, both in AoE and ST, thinking about pivoting to Assassination for a bump in ST damage for my m+ group
oak sky
Damage good utility is less applicable on sin but also good
idle star
Even in raid. Annoying as it is, outlaw is insane with frost set on a lot of bosses
kind talon
:)
idle star
They pop bladeflurry on a number of bosses and just fly up
tiny saddle
Yeah theres an outlaw rogue in my guild with the frost set that im always trying to compete with
rain patio
would I be correct in assuming that Assassination does more ST damage?
kind talon
Trueeeee
wintry mica
technically outlaw sims highest ST still i think
tiny saddle
The better player does more damage lol
idle star
I just hate how they press 1 button and cleave everything passively from their ST dmg
wintry mica
but if you look at logs sorted by boss damage sin is right at the top with feral
kind talon
rain patio
alright, guess I'll stick to Outlaw for now then, and maybe pick up some daggers along the way to try things out
wintry mica
yea sin requires double daggers to play anyway
tiny saddle
I tried outlaw but the only thing i liked about the spec is the grappling hook
wintry mica
shadowstep>grappling hook
tiny saddle
Yeah but it looks cool
oak sky
Outlaw good sin good all beautiful gamers all frost all holy except night fae fuck night fae
wintry mica
so does doing the whole "nothing personnel kid" teleport behind someone
shadowstep is just too useful
wintry mica
yea i like grapple more for world content
oak sky
Like on remnant or something
wintry mica
but shadowstep is op on like remnant and eye and sylv
tiny saddle
Rogues be like...
grave palm
Question, since I can't seem to make my brain understand... What would be our best legendary for M+? Im a necrolord, not sure if that matters. ._.
oak sky
Zoldyck insignia
oak sky
Its pretty much always the best
grave palm
That going on the legs or feet? since both have dom sockets now?
oak sky
Legs
tiny saddle
Legs
grave palm
Ah! Okay. ^.^ Thank you!
slow marsh
would I be correct in assuming that Assassination does more ST damage?
Nope not really anymore.
oak sky
All 3 specs are basically even tbh