assassination

[umbral sandal]

Hey! Quick question. My 262 doomblade cloak sims +132 higher than my 210 Dashing cloak. Is this because I have higher IT on my 262 cloak? I should still run the dashing cus I have the rank 4 frost set?

[harsh lantern]

ye for sure

[slow marsh]

someone on proudmoore recruit me

[burnt star]

I mean 1% of 10k is 100 dps.. wich is kinda big upgrade

[halcyon zealot]

Doomblade can outsim dashing at r4 frost for sure

[harsh lantern]

Phial is more dmg for me

Like 2.4%

[halcyon zealot]

but probably because lacking some crit

[oak sky]

i mean

it could just be losing a bunch of stats

from a 52 ilvl difference

[viscid spear]

I've been trying to get any dagger period.
Still rocking 226s

[umbral sandal]

Okay ty, ye guess that's it.

[burnt star]

With ep/vigor i needed a 262 dashing to beat my 262 doom with r4

[alpine latch]

The key is, only have 3 Dom sockets and only have a Frost set bonus item ... It makes it a lot easier for Frost to be BiS

[harsh lantern]

I got the great value box luck there

[viscid spear]

Also a 213 chest from Castle Nathria

[drowsy parcel]

im 252 equipped with 2x 246 daggers

where daggers

[oak sky]

i still have a ring from season 1 m+

[alpine latch]

I'm still using 226 phial

[harsh lantern]

Oof

[oak sky]

i got lucky with phial

252 leech in vault this week

[alpine latch]

I haven't actually chased anything

[harsh lantern]

i got enough valor for max rank

[alpine latch]

I don't even have KSM yet

[harsh lantern]

Just drop

ksm was pretty chill for me didnt really have to try

just 15s both sides

[viscid spear]

I only just broke 1k this week

[oak sky]

i got ksm later because i just wasnt running keys

[alpine latch]

I don't particularly enjoy m+ unless I'm playing with friends. It's not fun for me to pug, and my guildies run them when I'm not online

[harsh lantern]

Yeah I’m the same

[alpine latch]

Sadly, most of my friends have quit for New World

[harsh lantern]

just run my 10 15s on Monday

[oak sky]

i rarely do 10

4-6 most weeks

[harsh lantern]

3x for not see phial 😉

[viscid spear]

I have zero luck when I try to pug, so I have to strain myself to be on when the guild groups that don't overtime a 13 by half an hour are on.

[harsh lantern]

I never pug

My keys only

Can’t get invited as rogue even when ur io is 3k

[oak sky]

thats not really true

[kind talon]

U have 3k io?

[oak sky]

rogue gets invited if theres not another melee

rogue is a great pug class for m+ mostly

[kind talon]

I haven’t seen a 3k io pug ever so

That’s probably ur issue lmao

[harsh lantern]

no I’m not 3k lmao

[viscid spear]

Had a sweet 17 PF key laat week, got nothing at end of run. Feral got the other non-Phial dps trinket.

[kind talon]

U need a team at that point

[harsh lantern]

Like 2200

[spice spire]

At 2100 I get invited a bit

[kind talon]

Ye I mean ppl are super picky

U need a good # of times 20+ runs

[harsh lantern]

Ye I don’t mean I can’t get an invite

just takes way longer

[kind talon]

And they pref u to have a 19 timed if doing a 20 etc

[viscid spear]

I can't get one at 1k

[oak sky]

usually you can get to keys if youve done the one below or at least 1 of the same level

[kind talon]

That’s just how it works for everyone

[alpine latch]

I'm 1800 and I get rejected to 10s... Don't worry. lol

[kind talon]

There’s like

[harsh lantern]

Ye I understand

[kind talon]

50 ppl in my lfg

[viscid spear]

I'm getting better though, just need to kerp pushing

[lavish lichen]

Pug your own keys

[alpine latch]

I spent 2 hours applying to keys because I wanted to get specific dungeons instead of pushing my own, and 2 hours later I got invited then immediately kicked after I joined.

[oak sky]

im barely above 2k and i think im in a 17 rn

[lavish lichen]

I made my rogue 3 weeks ago and I’m 2050 mostly pugging

Don’t have much time rn

[oak sky]

tbh i dont remember if its a 16 or 17

[harsh lantern]

My key isn’t plaguefall so I gotta spend 3 hours looking for a PF group to invite me

Just boring

[viscid spear]

No one wants to join my group when they see my atrocious score abd records.

[harsh lantern]

Could re roll I guess

[lavish lichen]

When I didnt have gear it was bad

But just gotta work your way up

[kind talon]

What’s your highest timed pf?

And do u apply to 14s as well?

[harsh lantern]

Don’t do keys for rio think 16

[alpine latch]

I'm not pushing CE, so I'm not overly concerned about being hyper-optimized. I'm our highest simming DPS in the guild and #1 or #2 on almost every fight.

[harsh lantern]

Only 14-18

[kind talon]

I did a bunch of 12 as well

To farm my phial

[harsh lantern]

I should honestly do any PF

I have the valor

[kind talon]

Would recommend that yeah

[harsh lantern]

maybe that’s today’s plan

30 PFs inc

[kind talon]

Good ide

[oak sky]

i got phial on my 2nd pf key this season then replaced it anyway this week

[kind talon]

Idea

Replaced with what agreonr,

[lavish lichen]

I need pox now 😭

[kind talon]

There’s nothing to replace it with…..

[oak sky]

better phial

[kind talon]

!????

Oh

252 from box?

[oak sky]

yeah

[alpine latch]

That's my plan. Just farm +10-+12s to get my items and then push for KSM to upgrade them

[kind talon]

I’m cryin for u

So unlucky!!!

[harsh lantern]

Not a bad idea

[oak sky]

ikr :/

[harsh lantern]

idc bout rio at all

Just need gear

[viscid spear]

Gear is life

[harsh lantern]

ye

[alpine latch]

I don't care about a lot of things lately... But yeah - get the items, then get KSM, then boost them. Any Phial is better than my 226

[harsh lantern]

I got 239salv 252 totem

Just want that darn phial

[lavish lichen]

I got phial and amp

But then you look at my weapons

And laugh

[visual prairie]

I still have a 220 korthia dagger

[harsh lantern]

makes everything okay coming to the chat

Everyone’s going thru it

[lavish lichen]

SAME

[lime bluff]

Just started alt / maining rogue and I already know I’m in for a ride. My main main currently I still can’t get a phial or any trinket I need

[harsh lantern]

I got my 226 equip WW from nathria as my alt lmao

Bone dust brew looks fun

[lime bluff]

I got like 3 phials when leveling, last one I had was late 9.0
Luckiest I got was a 236 dagger when I still had 170s on rogue lately. Probably used up all my luck for a minute

[slim pebble]

The only phial I’ve seen all season is the one I got from an m0. My luck was so bad

[wintry mica]

I got a phial drop last week, dumped valor into it then got one out of this weeks vault

[oak sky]

shit man almost timed 17 halls

[woven ruin]

With shards is it a chance on every lvl or 1 boss kill a wk?

[wintry mica]

1 per week

[slim pebble]

I had a bunch of valor stock piled from last season so it wasn’t a huge loss.. I got the dagger from plague in my vault at 252 so I’m not sure what else I’d need to upgrade

[wintry mica]

ive got 252 totem and phial

still rocking korthia dagger 😦

[oak sky]

yeah the upgrades from m+ would be gear that isnt dom socket, wep, and trinkets

legs belt wrists

[wintry mica]

yea i get 2-3 dom socket options from m+ every week it seems lol

[oak sky]

then phial and shadowgrasp

oh and rings

those are good

[slim pebble]

I have guardian trinket + phial.

[wintry mica]

I like guardian trinket better than totem but i dont have mythic guardian yet

[oak sky]

i mean it does more damage i hope you like it more

[wintry mica]

no i mean im almost tempted to use my 239 over my 252 totem

[oak sky]

hm

[wintry mica]

it feels like it does more damage

even if it doesnt lol

i guess actually looking at some of my old logs, 3 uses of heroic amp did less than 2 uses of the 252 totem

[orchid timber]

hey guys is there a sweet spot for crit % that i should aim for in the frost build ?

[alpine latch]

40%ish

[rancid spade]

34%

[wintry mica]

The sweet spot is whenever the sim says frost does more than unholy set

[limber lion]

Like Ray said, there are no sweet spots.

We don't have a magic number we aim for, not for crit, not for haste and well, not for anything else really.

Just sim yourself and use whatever the sim suggests.

[rocky ruin]

for m+ as necro emeni, heirmir or marileth

[limber lion]

Heirmir.

Most likely.

Probs might want to check out what the top players are using though, as there have been some theorizing for Marileth.

[rocky ruin]

@limber lion for empowered conduit SBS Conduit or the one we more ilvl?

have

[alpine latch]

sim it

[wintry mica]

You get the same “boost” regardless of the ilvl of the conduit that’s in the slot

[alpine latch]

You get 2 ranks and not all conduits are created equally. Just sim it.

[wintry mica]

The sims are updated so just do what it says, the difference is probably pretty minor

[alpine latch]

wow, I didn't know that Outlaw was pulling ahead and beating us in raid.

[winter vapor]

as someone who hopefully only needs one more shard and some boots to drop for domination sockets, is there a general rule for when frost shards pull ahead of unholy? I'm running doomblade as necro atm

[wintry mica]

When the sims says it pulls ahead

[winter vapor]

I only ask as all my shards are level 1 right now

[wintry mica]

Then I would just go with frost

It is the best when you have the gear for it and it’s upgraded to r5

[drowsy parcel]

piece of shit unholy that procs at the wrong times vs chad frost with steady damage and 20k shields on yourself

[wintry mica]

For me personally. It only took r3 frost to beat r3 unholy. Then at r4 frost was a head by a good margin

You can get bad frost procs too but it does feel more consistent IMO

[winter vapor]

kk, much obliged 🙂

[weak bane]

For me, it pulled ahead of my r4 unholy at r4 frost with dashing scoundrel, 241 ilvl, 20% haste and 37% crit

[wintry mica]

Even without dashing r4 frost is ahead of r4 unholy at my 40% crit

[weak bane]

I long for the crit gloves/helm from heroic to skyrocket me to crit greatness

[wintry mica]

Yea I’m still rocking the normal fate helm

[weak bane]

I've got the 220 gloves from deaths advance vendor so I feel that struggle

[winter vapor]

sadly most of my 252 vault stuff has been dom socket placings :c

[weak bane]

Pls mythic eye just love me

[wintry mica]

Yea I have a 220 OH korthia dagger still lol

[scenic root]

Does zoldyck or dashing do better in m+?

[wintry mica]

most likely zoldyck

unless trash is dying too quick to get much value out of it

[harsh lantern]

https://gyazo.com/907a466a9d8dd25e65bf066807fa483d the phial grind continues

[slow marsh]

zold

[obsidian socket]

Downloading light shot let’s you take a cropped pic when you print scrn and you can copy paste it and not need a link if u want a more convenient way

[harsh lantern]

ill check it out ye gyazo kinda old news

[wintry mica]

you can also just use snipping tool

[harsh lantern]

muscle memory of using that for years tbh

just habit

[idle star]

I got heroic sylv dagger from the 4 mythics weekly!

[hollow river]

O rly

[fallen arch]

Get outta here

[idle star]

Omg i lied! Im sorry! Im going to hell

[hollow river]

[fallen arch]

Then why does the cache say 239 ilvl

[idle star]

Dont judge meeeeee

[hollow river]

[idle star]

Nah i got the shadow proc trinkt that i already have 3 of. Was noce to have 4

[hollow river]

Oof

[idle star]

Thabk god for traded loot because i have looted doubles of so many items

[peak wasp]

i have 3 set frost and notice barly any winter dmage? do i need more crit?

[fluid glade]

r4 at least and yeah probably

id look at top frost logs and see ho wmuch crit they rocking to give you a ballpark figure, gland trink may help you get there as well

[idle star]

At rank 3 im getting 22k crits on a turnip in the maw. In raid its even bigger. Rank 4 this week! :D

[peak wasp]

awsome yea i only have rank 2

kk will work on higher ranks

[wintry mica]

my highest so far outside of tarragrue was a 65k on fate with r4

[final sky]

for hc kt do i wonna run m+ talents?

and zoldyck

[timid talon]

No because you're going down to kill the remnant

its a st fight disguised as an aoe fight, just go ep/vig/pb

CT is fine though if you need it

[final sky]

alright ty

and for sylvanas do i want to go full st, nuke during sylvanas bits and follow the group during adds

[hollow river]

Pretty much yeah

You should be single targeting the big adds in p2

[fallen arch]

Just don’t run blindside

[hollow river]

And maybe FoK to spread poisons and a rupture or two on small adds

Yeah definitely EP/vigor fight

I’ve been seeing R4 blood do insane damage for sub rogue

Like 200k+ on pulls

[pseudo hamlet]

and don't run EP without vigor. BS + DS felt really bad and slow.

[timid talon]

winds is still stronger

[kind talon]

He said for sub

[timid talon]

either way, 200k?

lol

[cedar star]

I’ll never understand you blindside haters

Glowy button fun push

[strange python]

fun animation

[oak sky]

blindside is bad on sylvanas

[cedar star]

God fucking knows it adds something active to do in our rotation

[oak sky]

thats probably what hes saying

[cedar star]

Of course it is

[timid talon]

without bs our entire talent kit for raid is mostly passives that dont change what you do

[oak sky]

if you follow the chat

[cedar star]

I’m just saying in general

[timid talon]

so yeah bs is something

[cedar star]

There are people here who hate using it even on Guardian

[oak sky]

pretty lame

it feels good when it works

[cedar star]

Other than pooling our rotation is super simple. God forbid we have a button that adds a proc

[timid talon]

make exsanguinate good again

[oak sky]

blindside is pretty fun

[wintry mica]

blindside feels really good when you get a bunch of procs during opener

[torn atlas]

Oops random tag

[versed mica]

When dashing is the best for st, does it require you to play BS/DS? Or is it still good for EP/vig?

Or rather, if I play EP/vig, will it favor a different legendary instead

[kind talon]

Nah it does like 13% or something dumb

For sub

[woeful meteor]

With ep vig dashing is still bis, but the difference between ep vig and bs ds is bigger compared to doomblade

[idle star]

Dam is that rank 5??

[kind talon]

Nah

[idle star]

Must have crit all of em almost. Very lucky

[kind talon]

Rank 5 would be highest damage

Lol

That breakdown looks like a normal rank 4 breakdown to me

[idle star]

Even with 43% crit my wind rng is terrible. Its really only good if its critting

[kind talon]

You said yours was rank 3 yeah?

[idle star]

Yeh i know rank 3 aint that good

[kind talon]

Ye

It increases by a shitton every rank

Rank 3 to 4 was 4.4% for me

[idle star]

But that dmg breakdown he linked looks like almost all of em crit

[timid talon]

rank 4 for me

[kind talon]

U can’t see the crit%….

In that screenshot

[timid talon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LPgM6Q1vjtTf3KJb#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=8

[kind talon]

But I’d guess it’s like 60% crit

[timid talon]

here's the log

only 40%

[kind talon]

40%

lol

Farmed

[timid talon]

Yea i got hella lucky on drops lol

[cedar star]

40% isn’t as hard as I thought actually

It is a little hard when you are trying to keep a reasonable amount of haste

[idle star]

40% crit on the winds procs is almost 100% uptime on your crit % thats good!

Wait that sounded bad

[limber lion]

[winged basin]

No dagger

BUT

I finally got my sylv kill.

[hollow river]

not for sub xD

[hollow river]

200k as rank 4. my rank 4 frost barely does 80-140k on pulls

(these are prog pulls not farm) i haven't paid much attention to farm pulls.

[cursive silo]

Yea does like 10% of my damage on sims so on some bosses itd hit 200k

Like H guardian

[hollow river]

yeah i was just comparing rank 4 blood to rank 4 frost

sub compared to sin

are the new frost "bis" sims not pinned?

after the "bug fixes"

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uSzStkpqBj4UK8f8kC3aZZ/simc

someone sent me this

[cobalt pelican]

that's just the sim that's pinned in the sub channel lol

[hollow river]

ah ok it is

didn't realize because there wasn't a picture of it

just a link

sin kinda starting to lag behind

[cobalt pelican]

sin has only gained over the course of the patch really

relative to the other specs

frost being good for it is basically kept the spec relevant, and the sim correction hurt outlaw more than sin

[hollow river]

i know it did

but sin/sub were both gonna be using frost and were neck and neck

i mean kinda irrelevant anyway since its just bis sims

but even more relevant for the lower gear levels

my sub sims nearly 1k > my sin

[cursive silo]

Thats probably because you have sub gear

[viscid spear]

Jesus, dropped my phone and cracked the screen, had to get another one.

[zinc frost]

That’s the last time you let Jesus borrow your phone

[viscid spear]

Should've known, the guy's 1988 years old

[pale plank]

how do you guys deals with the debuff on remnant? do you guys shadowstep the person closest to you when you get the debuff?

mythic*

[cursive silo]

I step boss

[hollow river]

no

[pale plank]

if u get the debuff and u have to be standing on the edge

sometime the boss ios far

[cursive silo]

Ask tank to bring boss easy

[hollow river]

you should try to stay away from being too close too edge

like a few yards

but everyone including the tank/boss should be coming close to you before dispell

[cursive silo]

But if you get the MD wa it shouldn’t be too hard

[cobalt pelican]

realistically i have very good sub gear and very okay sin gear and the gap is nowhere near 1k, it's like 300 dps and would be maybe 500 post-dagger so idk what you're wearing or comparing

[hollow river]

the dagger definitely widened the gap

if i crafted dashing it would help my sin like 90dps-ish

but even with 225 Obe sub is stonking

[fiery mauve]

Subt is great

[hollow river]

i have most of the gear from the raid

both gloves, helms, boots, all rings i think

no chest piece at all yet tho

[flat pike]

for tough boss dungeons like say SD 23/24, do you guys think it makes sense to go COMPLETELY ST build, ie. poison bomb, doomblade, raid ST gear, etc..? or still better to go overall well rounded M+ aoe gear/spec? say with a mage and survival hunter that can demolish every pack in seconds

[fiery mauve]

CT ain’t that bad ST for a bigger aoe gain

Damn

Poor ct

[cobalt pelican]

maybe if you're willing to tp out and swap and checkpoint back in

but not for the entire key no

[flat pike]

makes sense thanks

[slow marsh]

sin isn't lagging behind at all. people are just branching to the other two specs cuz fun factor

[hollow river]

for me, atm, it is

[torn atlas]

Ehh. It might be across the board but I'm blasting and constantly top of my raid for a lot of fights so I'm happy with it.

[hollow river]

the only fight my sin comes close to topping is The Nine and Guardian

but i play with some blasters

[bleak sky]

Sin is pretty fugging good

[torn atlas]

Yeah we only heroic raid so could also be a huge factor haha.

[hollow river]

yeah might be

kinda hard to beat certain ranged on the eye M

or aoe blasters on soulrender M

[zinc frost]

I raid with a monk and he pops off on soulrender, love it

[hollow river]

yeah our monk decimates

[bleak sky]

from 7k to 36k

[hollow river]

and our lock has been trying out Aff

[bleak sky]

monk

[hollow river]

on soulrender prog

[tidal gorge]

Can someone explain to me how exactly the frost proc works? It seems to vary wildly in damage. Does it build up some internal crit counter and then when it procs the damage is based on that?

[hollow river]

I think that’s how it works

The damage definitely varies

[karmic crystal]

every 20 seconds it explodes

the damage of the explosion is a stored amount of damage based on a portion of your critical strike damage

[tidal gorge]

Oh I see, there's a much more detailed tooltip when you have it equipped than the one on the shoulders

[vale shore]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[karmic crystal]

ye

[tidal gorge]

Does it always hit your target or random?

I feel like that could be fun for funnel damage

[karmic crystal]

i cant quite remember

i think it is just on your target but im not sure

[arctic hare]

So is that rank 5?

[tidal gorge]

That's just rank 4, I had spent most of mine on unholy when they buffed it :\

[arctic hare]

Thats nuts

[karmic crystal]

its pretty good for funnel though i guess

ive seen some assassination logs from like KT heroic that are pretty wild

[tidal gorge]

Fan painsmith balls, BOOM XD

Specially with dashing, that could be quite fun

[weak crescent]

is dashing better on aoe than doomblade ?

[idle star]

Does dashing give bulk energy gen in aoe?

[fathom flax]

Yo so I run nadija cookie cutter for raiding but for m+ I’m running theotar with lashing/katar/poison

Reckon that’s the best 3 for m+ or because we’ve got such high crit, I’m at 44, I should sub katar for shiv

[idle star]

On tyranical idk...

Shiv conduit should still be bis

[fathom flax]

Thought as much

[fathom flax]

You’ll still want run 5 bleeds to saturate your energy regen

[manic pebble]

dude, Dashing is so good in M+

[fathom flax]

Whispyr did a whole novel about dashing in m+ sims

It’s not as good as zoldycks tho

[manic pebble]

ik

but at least it can do some aoe

and good st

[fathom flax]

Oui

[idle star]

Im guessing it depends on fortified or bot

Not*

[fathom flax]

it doesn’t change your aoe priority

[oak sky]

obe is probably what you would go if you wanted some st

but zoldyck is probably still better anyway

[fathom flax]

Obed was a trap I want my money back

[oak sky]

i dont have it yet

[manic pebble]

I will not force myself to craft another R6 leggo again

I don't wanna suffer

[fathom flax]

R6 dashing will do every content fine

[oak sky]

i need to get dashing r6 next

[fathom flax]

If you want make r6 zold for m+

Otherwise don’t lol

[manic pebble]

I have r6 doom, r6 dashing and r4 zold

[oak sky]

i had r6 doomblade the week before frost set buffs

[manic pebble]

[fathom flax]

Alright mr bezos sling me some of that gold

[idle star]

Yes but zoldycks has more uptime on fortified conpared to packs being deleted on tyranical weeks. Idk seems like a no brainer...

[manic pebble]

dashing is better than zold on this week

[oak sky]

just do higher keys

[fathom flax]

If you’re doing your weekly 15 nothing will matter

[idle star]

Yeh i dont really push past 17's at this point. Im a casual m+ guy

[manic pebble]

same I just spam +15 and +16 for weekly

[fathom flax]

You don’t have to min max for a 15 haha

[idle star]

Im only 1750 score

[fathom flax]

Every 252 I’ve gotten has been from my first slot in gv so I really cbf doing more atm

Still no phial 😦

[idle star]

Yeh thats true. But just by how the legendafirs work themselves zoldycks is more of a fortified type leggo (if the legendaries are close)

[fiery mauve]

Bring back deathspike launching 3 spikes

[idle star]

Gimme hunter NF coc ability. That thing is a master of everything ST and AoE

Cov*

[fiery mauve]

So you can stack mastery and rupture everything

[idle star]

I want Sin to have posion bomb as a combo finisher. So you can pick Thr bleed aoe or direct dmg.

Idk

Sub just feels better to play in m+ with blackpowder and constant dances

[gritty quiver]

HI guys what leggo assa, is using these days?

[ruby mantle]

might be astupid question but do i have to have a dagger in my OH?

[grizzled mist]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cxrTdhRWuHEQPfyJiZ2FL2

Am i simming low for my ilvl?

[flat pike]

pop quiz time. You have 5 combo points, SHIV is up, and there is 6 seconds left on rupture. Do you a) refresh rupture, get back up to 4-5 CP, then shiv/burn phase, or b) shiv right away, don't wait, and refresh rupture during shiv window?

[manic pebble]

A

[flat pike]

ok very smart Flushies you pass the test

same with garrote ye?

[hollow river]

you don't need to get back up to 4-5 CP before you shiv

just press it on CD, and when its coming off CD soon you can pool energy. (conisidering your bleeds have good timing left on them on your target)

but yeah always B

[flat pike]

ooo so even if rupture has 6 sec left u still shiv right off cd??

[hollow river]

yes

[flat pike]

wow

[cursive silo]

Id do neither and just press rupture and then shiv lol

[hollow river]

true^

[flat pike]

yea coa that's my usual strat kinda i get up to 4-5 CP

[hollow river]

no

[flat pike]

so i can max envenoms

[cursive silo]

I don’t

[hollow river]

no

[cursive silo]

Id just

Rupture shiv

[hollow river]

u shiv at any CP

[flat pike]

ahhh

ok i see

that's pretty big dps loss then

[hollow river]

whats a loss?

[flat pike]

what i was doing

[hollow river]

not big

[flat pike]

refreshing rupture/garrote then getting 4-5 CP

[hollow river]

but it is a loss

[cursive silo]

That scenario probably doesn’t happen often enough to be a BIG loss

But its incorrect

[hollow river]

shiv buffs poison damage too

you still wanna envenom during shiv, sure

but no need to try and get 3 envenoms inside every shiv

[flat pike]

ok so biggest benefit of shiv is the poison

[hollow river]

idk whats biggest

[flat pike]

poison dmg i thought it was the envenom dmg

[hollow river]

shiv buffs Nature damage

deadly poison

and envenom

[flat pike]

ye just thought was most effective for envenom

[hollow river]

idk

all i know is you slam shiv on CD

[flat pike]

ok

so literally slam it on CD and u can even refresh rupture during it

[hollow river]

yep

but also it doesn't matter when

[flat pike]

got it

[hollow river]

you refresh rupt inside pandemic

like say you hit shiv

you envenom once

rupture is falling, but you have 4-5 CP already

if you KNOW you can fit another envenom, before rupture falls off completely

then there's no loss envenoming again, as long as rupture does NOT fall off

[flat pike]

got it

tyvm

that said, aside from burst windows etc. are there any cases where you DO wait to use shiv?

ie. if vendetta up in 10 seconds u wait on shiev etc?

[hollow river]

ye

lining with vendetta when vendetta is 10 seconds or less away

is ok iirc

[flat pike]

kk

[grizzled mist]

do you need a certain Crit % before the Frost gems out perform the Unholy gems?

[flat pike]

i asked that question before and people said no

sim your character is the best answer haha

[hollow river]

frost tends to get better than unholy with more ilvl, and more crit

[flat pike]

yeah top assassination M+ player has 50% crit lul

[hollow river]

no one can tell you whether it's better for your character, right now, except raidbots

m+ doesn't use shard bonuses

[grizzled mist]

okay that makes sense. because right now unholy sims much higher for me

[flat pike]

oh i mean his gear when he raids

[hollow river]

ooh

[flat pike]

xD

[hollow river]

d:

[flat pike]

yeah varrusian same, you need at least rank 3 frost gems also

[hollow river]

what is your ilvl

[flat pike]

i barely got my unholy gems to rank 4... i dont know how people got unholy and frost up now

[grizzled mist]

237

[hollow river]

weird

[grizzled mist]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/69YXXfsQR89mNWYpwEtD1d

[hollow river]

frost simmed higher for me at 230 ilvl

[flat pike]

maybe depends on yalls gear

i reckon higher crit = more benefit from frost set

[hollow river]

what is your crit %?

[grizzled mist]

its really low. 23%

[flat pike]

yep that's why haha

[grizzled mist]

correction, 25%

[hollow river]

yeah i could see it was a little low from your gear

[flat pike]

i saw top players go with at least 40% i think it gotta be somewhere near here

[fallen arch]

Wdym, Sylvanas has no execute hemce it’s stupid to pick there

Id I want glowy buttons I’ll@play frost mage

[grizzled mist]

well im limited by what gear is dropping.

[cedar star]

of course it is on sylvanas

but some people dont play it period

even on guardian

[flat pike]

yeah totally, so i think for you 237 is low until you get better/higher crit gear

[hollow river]

frost simmed higher for me with like 30-32%

just need to get more crit gear

[flat pike]

what gems did yall use as well

maybe varurusian used rank 1 frost gems and notrickz you used rank 3+

[hollow river]

there's a couple crit rings and a crit neck from raid

no he's using r5 in sim

[flat pike]

oh ok

yeah i just think low crit he needs more (crit) gear

[hollow river]

yeah from what i can tell that's what it is

[grizzled mist]

thx guys

[hollow river]

because the feels man

some people like the feel of playing ep/vigor in every scenario because its a smoother playstyle

also they might just cba changing talents

[cedar star]

we have like 4 buttons to push adn your biggest decison is when to pool

im not sure how smoothe you want it

a proc at least gives you an interactive button to press

[hollow river]

sure

i'm simply telling you why people run it on every fight

[cedar star]

i completely unsterstand ep vigor on AOE and sylv

and adds fight

[hollow river]

for some it's dps neutral also

so

they might just cba

[oak sky]

frost set sims higher now

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

painer ring instead of the nine ring brought me across the line

[hollow river]

noice

[oak sky]

guild couldnt reclear sylv tonight rrrrrr

[hollow river]

i'm debating on blood or unholy for my next set to upgrade

[oak sky]

probably blood

better for sub offspec

[hollow river]

yeah

[oak sky]

but definitely max dyz first

[hollow river]

kinda what i was thinking

why

[oak sky]

wait

[hollow river]

for the offset dps shard?

[oak sky]

does it do less than the blood shard

i think dyz does the most

[hollow river]

i think so too

[oak sky]

so after frost is max you would max it

[hollow river]

and then offspec

[oak sky]

yeah i think so

[hollow river]

hmm

i've been playing sub more and more lately

[oak sky]

but if ur only mainspec i would do the other unholy dps gem for m+ or something

yeah do blood then

[hollow river]

trying to get better at it

[oak sky]

i kinda want to fw sub

[hollow river]

it can be fun

[oak sky]

i just need a leggo

[hollow river]

especially on fights u can funnel

u don't have Obe?

[oak sky]

nah

[hollow river]

o

[oak sky]

it was gonna be my next craft anyway

[hollow river]

i've got to make dashing

[oak sky]

once i have enough ash

yeah i need to max dashing

then max zoldyck

[hollow river]

and recraft celerity

[oak sky]

i alr have celery

[hollow river]

idk if i want to max dashing

or if i should max obe

):

[oak sky]

dashing is definitely way better

[hollow river]

sims under 100 dps for me

[oak sky]

obe loses value in downtime which is everywhere in this raid

so many dps holds

[hollow river]

downtime

[oak sky]

intermissions

nah

not like that

[hollow river]

i know what u mean

[oak sky]

a big part of the leggo is cdr and you lose that

flag comes up anyway

[hollow river]

it buffs flag value

but only worth for sub imo

[oak sky]

yeah

its not bad on sin or anything

[hollow river]

ik

[oak sky]

just probably worse than doom or dashing

well

[hollow river]

ye

[idle star]

Cant wait for rank 4 frost and 262 dashing this weekend

[hollow river]

i wanna craft dashing for sure i just don't know if i wanna prio r6 dashing or r6 obe

[oak sky]

frost 4 is sick

[hollow river]

im 2 embers from r5 frost

and have the cinders for 1 6r leggo

[oak sky]

i need more cinders

still have to do my torgy

[hollow river]

and ash for 1 r4 if i need to craft dashing

this whole patch has been conflicting for rogue :<

can play all specs

no time for alts

!

[idle star]

unfortunately i invested in rank 4 unholy first right before the buffs to frost 😦 stupid blizz

[hollow river]

[manic pebble]

my dps is a lot lower when I sim in gear compare

why

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p4u3NhZRHUecMgrCRBTfmi

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pstYVk8f8pMxzLanZwQZML

[hollow river]

maybe shard bonuses aren't on in gear compare

i have no idea i don't use it much

none of your gear looks socketed

in gear compare

[manic pebble]

I see

gear compare can't see shards

[hollow river]

make sure u have shard bonuses turned on

mine does

[manic pebble]

shard bonuses is on tho

weird

[hollow river]

but when i hovered over ur gear it didn't have it on

like

your link

[manic pebble]

I'll try again

[hollow river]

hover the dom gear

it showed me no socket

[manic pebble]

all good now, I have to copy my sc code again

[hollow river]

ah

[oak sky]

i did too but i ended up getting r4 frost before i had enough crit for it to sim higher anyway

[restive valve]

At what stat % did frost sim higher? I have sooo much crit and frost isn’t even close for me yet

[oak sky]

might be the frost set rank for you also

[restive valve]

I’m simming all at r5

[oak sky]

huh

[restive valve]

Sorry auto correct hates WoW terms

[oak sky]

yeah

uh

i have a little less crit than haste

but you just have to keep simming yourself

just get crit wherever you can

everything kinda depends on your current gear

[hollow river]

frost puts crit nearly at the same value as agility

for it to pull ahead you need 30-40% it just depends on your profile

are you venthyr?

[restive valve]

Yeah… holding upgrading anything until next reset at this point. I’m like 40% crit and no frost love

Yeah I am venth

[hollow river]

covenant?

hmmm

weird

[restive valve]

Sorry auto correct again lol

[hollow river]

ilvl?

[restive valve]

My haste is low tho

[hollow river]

my haste is kinda low too

[spice spire]

Haste honestly doesn’t affect it too much

[restive valve]

Joys of swapping between sub and sin

[hollow river]

and it sims higher for me

[oak sky]

haste being low isnt good per se but its fine for frost set

[restive valve]

Yeah, I’ll play around with the sims some more. Maybe I am just smooth braining it

[hollow river]

link sim

?

[spice spire]

You can also link

Me try to help

[restive valve]

Yeah not on my pc atm.

[hollow river]

ah true

[restive valve]

I’ll post later tonight if I can’t figure it out

[hollow river]

kk

[restive valve]

Ty tho 🙂

[hollow river]

[smoky oyster]

is dashing the best raid lego even with unholy set?

[oak sky]

doomblade might sim higher probably depends on your gear

but if you need to craft one just craft dashing

[spice spire]

Dashing doesn’t sim well with unholy for me

[oak sky]

yeah but its not like you're intentionally playing unholy forever

[smoky oyster]

oof.. wonder if I should swap to frost.. I kinda nearly maxed my unholy. wish we could refund even half

[spice spire]

I mean I am playing Necrolord 🙂

[oak sky]

if you keep clearing raid it probably won't take too long to get the embers

[spice spire]

You more than likely should - especially if you’re geared pretty well

[oak sky]

frost can start being good at rank 3 or 4

or even sooner

[spice spire]

R4 frost simming better than r5 unholy with a few gear upgrades for me

[smoky oyster]

im kinda ok geard i suppose. 243ilvl and I do have the gear to get my crit up to 1100+

[spice spire]

Yeah you should be in the frost/dashing camp rn

[oak sky]

ur better off than me and frost already sims higher for me at r4

[smoky oyster]

is it a huge diff?

what makes me hate unholy is getting it proc when I cant hit the boss

like intermissions and stuff

pisses me off XD

seems to happen quite a ton vs painsmith

[spice spire]

Unlucky

[smoky oyster]

i cant make a 262 one yet though. just made a 262 obedience so im pretty far from having enough cinders

[tribal marlin]

The worstfor me is that I waited before spending for UH R4. And when they announced there will be no nerf I spent

1days after they announced the buffs ...

[smoky oyster]

this is where my stats are at

thats how it is for me too @tribal marlin XD

[tribal marlin]

that's a lot of crit

[smoky oyster]

haha yeah

seems every piece of gear I got has crit

except my wrist

[unreal epoch]

gahlee

that crit wild

[smoky oyster]

Hahaha guess I should try frost even with a 235 dashing only

[fallen arch]

Happened to a lot of us I think

[thin imp]

with 37% of crit, frost r3+235 dashing pulled ahead of r4 unholy+262 doomblade for me

[smoky oyster]

Thats awesome info! Thanks! I'll try out then :D

[idle star]

Ouch town, population you bro

[idle star]

The ilvl on cloak is minimal impact.

[royal lantern]

legendary ilvl is a couple of stats

it doesnt make a big difference at all

[drifting cloud]

well 235 to 262 cloak is 14 agi and 10 secondaries, I wouldnt call it nothing

thats what like 80-90 dps?

[idle star]

For me 1 agi = 4.2 dps. So thats 57. Crit and haste are both around 2.4 each. So thats 81 dps

[oak sky]

yeah thats about what it is on my profile

actually i think its closer to 100

[still elm]

Man I green parsed our 2nd mythic eye kill feelsbadman

[idle star]

Did you bleed up all adds?

[still elm]

Yea but had to stop dps a few times because eyes were super uneven

[idle star]

Yeh thats a dps KILLER.

Haveto be able to go all in on your add

Thats just poor raid management

[still elm]

Here are our heroic logs if anyone wants to help your boy out with some tips https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LBMhk1WTwdQRA94Z/

[safe barn]

Not exactly

[idle star]

I mean of the raid leaders knew their dps they would organise groups effectively. Having 1 eye dying way quicker than another isnt good enough

[safe barn]

Doing that on prog is kinda hard

You have to adjust

Strats change when it becomes a farm

[idle star]

Thats fair enough. He did say heroic tho. I guess thats prog for some

[still elm]

Lol no the logs were from heroic it was mythic eye I was talking about

[balmy condor]

We had it figured out on eye, and then next week we had people get new gem ranks and had 2 trials

Suddenly one eye was about 25% ahead

It’s pretty cringe

[hollow river]

I’m assuming you can Feint chain breaks on soulrender, including your own?

On the eye the group that takes the portal sits there and dps’s for a few seconds while we wait by the chain -.- gets old

[manic pebble]

can I see your gears?

[hollow river]

Wondering if you can Feint the swirlies on soulrender

For the chain breaks in big raid CDs where you can’t really avoid swirlies

[balmy condor]

You hold cloak for that

[oak sky]

i was so close to having bis powers on h tarragrue tonight

pretty sure i had 3/4 of the best ones

[slow marsh]

I went ham on mythic terra tonight without bis powers. Kinda happy about that even if it doesn't matter at all

Finally got frost shoulders so ya boi be pumpin now

[unreal epoch]

If I have 239 guardian trinket should I still go for shadowgrasp totem?

[slow marsh]

I kind of troled on the nine though and went outlaw

[slow marsh]

Sim it

[oak sky]

outlaw is good on the nine

probably about as good as sin

[inland heath]

dashing scoundrel increases the crit chance of envenom too?

[idle star]

No

[slow marsh]

Yeah but going from memeing in normal / heroic right to playing it in mythic was dumb of me. Need some more practice still

[slow marsh]

Yes

It does

[idle star]

What?!

[inland heath]

it seems so i tested it on 2 keys and its more crits than without it{

soo i guess it counts as a poison

[oak sky]

yup

but it doesnt count as poison for zoldyck

[slow marsh]

So does pb

[royal lantern]

ah yes

[oak sky]

game is weird sometimes

[royal lantern]

the 100%serious "i tested it in 2keys" test

i played 2 keys with 36%crit instead of 41%, and did more crits with it

[idle star]

If it increases envenom dmg aswell thats nuts

[royal lantern]

so 36%crit is more crit chance then 41%

[slow marsh]

It doesn't increase damage just crit %

[iron orchid]

Apparently it does

[inland heath]

dude i have the same gear and did them 1 after the other with zoldyck and DS and got 50% crit envenoms overall and 36 % on the other

[idle star]

You realise you can have 40% crit chance and an ability in your dungeon can have an overall crit % of 50 right?

[iron orchid]

a few days ago, some people had the same conversation

iirc

[royal lantern]

spec channels are a circle

always the same 3 discussions

[balmy condor]

It’s insane to me that people are just now figuring it out honestly

[royal lantern]

thats why guy is guy, and whisper is slowly turning into guy

[balmy condor]

After the set bonus did it

And then it was like that all expansion

And competitive all expansion

Like

[oak sky]

wait frost is bis now? how much crit is the breakpoint? should i swap from unholy? does it work with doomblade?

[balmy condor]

Where did you think the damage was coming from

[inland heath]

sorry for knowing everyshit like u smart boi this is my 4th alt 🙂

[balmy condor]

Did you think 15% poison crit

[idle star]

It just says poisons. The reason ppl didnt know is because master poisoner doesnt increase envenom dmg

[balmy condor]

Randomly makes it as competitive

[inland heath]

thanks for the usefull reply btw

[balmy condor]

As Everything Else

[slow marsh]

Well now that I have frost shoulders I am going kyrian sin with kleia

[idle star]

Stick with venthyr!! The little flag crits count towards the frost set. Its awsome

Every little crit boosts that blast

[balmy condor]

The 5 hits that flag does

[slow marsh]

Pog

[oak sky]

go what you want everything is good!

[slow marsh]

Huge stonks

[oak sky]

except the blue haired stepchild

[slow marsh]

Much scaling

[oak sky]

[slow marsh]

Such sim bait

[balmy condor]

[still elm]

When we were pulling mythic nine my frost bonus was doing around 500-600k kinda nuts

[slow marsh]

Sin is best prog spec

Uhhhh I'm running out of gas

[oak sky]

uptime?

[balmy condor]

The 5 hits that flag does that hits too hard so it gets capped on the set bonus

[oak sky]

restealths in m+?

[idle star]

Considering rank 4 frost only takes like 400? Dmg from each crit

[oak sky]

theres so many common statements to go through

[idle star]

Lots of small crits matter

[daring mango]

450

[balmy condor]

Yeah, so not flag

[idle star]

U thought flag, when you used a finisher, did small hits per combo point?

I*

[arctic walrus]

That’s why I don’t use lashing

[slow marsh]

Just think of all the small crits from a juicy 1 min long ER rupture

[balmy condor]

It does 1 hit, each time you finish

The lashes are combined into 1 hit

[idle star]

Well dam. They appear as seprate ticks. Thats false advertisement! Lol

[tribal marlin]

At least in combzt log it record only 1hit per finish

[idle star]

Yeh but when you look at floating combat text its a bunch of small numbers

Annoying...

[balmy condor]

How would floating combat text display different from the combat log

[shadow tusk]

[idle star]

Try it out. When you use a finisher flag dmg flies out as little mini hits.. or am i on some heavy drugs here....

[balmy condor]

I have it turned off

Wouldn’t know

[idle star]

I really gotta stop raiding on acid

[tribal marlin]

Nevers seen such Thing

[oak sky]

kinda hard to tell with all the other shit thats doing damage at the same time

[slow marsh]

Same tho. Useless information xD

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Is Just screen clutter

[oak sky]

lowkey i like seeing envenom crit numbers

super satisfying to hit for like 20k or whatever

[tribal marlin]

You dont like se big damn envenoms ???

[oak sky]

even though it is useless

[balmy condor]

You could tell me your envenom crit for 15k and Id think it’s impressive

Just i Just have no idea

How much damage anything does

[idle star]

Whos critting a 20k envenom?!

[oak sky]

like in shiv and vendetta

[tribal marlin]

Friend feral hit bite for 83k

[idle star]

My envenom is broken up into lots of small hits like flag

[oak sky]

uhhh

what

[balmy condor]

What kind of shit are you smoking

[oak sky]

i definitely see one big number every time i envenom

[idle star]

Well i was trying to be clever but nvm.

[oak sky]

good try

[ornate lake]

Maybe you're too clever for us all

[oak sky]

respect the effort

[balmy condor]

I still don’t get it

:/

[idle star]

Ill take this hand out and bow out with some dignity

[balmy condor]

Maybe better that I don’t

[oak sky]

👍

[plush garnet]

Are you guys running obed or doomblade in raids?

[balmy condor]

Neither

[plush garnet]

uh oh

what u runnin

[balmy condor]

Dashing

[plush garnet]

Ohh u doing the dashing strat

is that working well for you

[balmy condor]

Eh

I play sub for most bosses

and I don’t have a frost set

So it’s just a fun lego tbh

[oak sky]

dude im fried i read raids as m+

i thought you were trying to say doomblade or obe in keys

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

and then whispyr said dashing

and

[balmy condor]

I’m a tiny toxic blade enjoyer in keys

[oak sky]

i lost my mind

[balmy condor]

I saw insert some top 100 rogue or whatever run it

And he does more damage than me

So it’s pretty good

[oak sky]

do you play ma as well?

asking for a friend

[plush garnet]

I love sub for keys, and have been doing sub recently for raids, but I want to fuck around on sin again in raids,

[balmy condor]

Ma hidden blades

[oak sky]

ooh thats the tech

[balmy condor]

Only press fok from stealth

[oak sky]

subterfuge bad

[balmy condor]

Also take venom rush cause I’m mutilating a lot more

Because hidden blades obviously

[drifting cloud]

whispyr if you had to guess (or maybe you know) what would be venthyr assa best non zoldyck m+ combo

is it like dashing nadja, obe theotar?

[balmy condor]

Oh man

Probably obe theotar

It’s for sure obedience

[oak sky]

is there ever a reason not to go nadjia though?

[balmy condor]

I think theo would be better generally

Yeh cause thrill seeker procs like dogshit

[oak sky]

true

very true

[balmy condor]

One of my many pet peeves btw is people who ask “what build are you running”

What does that even mean

I’m running the shit that everyone else is running

It sims highest

Idk

[oak sky]

bbbbbut

[balmy condor]

The fuck even is a build

You mean lego?

???

[oak sky]

theres people running dashing ma in keys

[drifting cloud]

also weird that so few people run theotar in raid

it sims like +30 for me with crit/haste and token is just broken

but maybe they have sub stuff in it I guess

[balmy condor]

Had one guy ask me what build is best and I told him to check the pins and he hit me with the “no but what stats”

I almost blew a fuse

[still elm]

Lmaooo

[oak sky]

Stat Suggestions:
Crit >= Haste > Versatility > Mastery

took me 2 seconds

[balmy condor]

Yeh but also like

Stop caring bout stats?

Ya know

[oak sky]

sim

simmy sim simmity simmer

[royal lantern]

whispr

what stats should i go with dashing

[balmy condor]

Dozens of people show up here every day like “is 37.32659% crit enough for frost?”

As if anyone has an answer for that

[drifting cloud]

sorry the breakpoint is 37.5%

[royal lantern]

+can i even PLAY the frost set, it sims higher but im at 39%crit, and people always say 40%crit

[balmy condor]

Menace to society

[oak sky]

i have under 30% and its simming higher for me now

[royal lantern]

[still elm]

@balmy condor let it all out man we’re here for ya lol

[oak sky]

people dont get it

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-angry-mad-work-monday-gif-7905857

[balmy condor]

It’s 2:30am and I realized school starts Monday and I’m PISSED

[drifting cloud]

how are you under 30%, wouldnt sim want crit so much

[balmy condor]

[drifting cloud]

that 230 neck/ring would win

esp when most of the people that ask arent t6 korthia anyways

[oak sky]

i cant find shit for crit gear

like everything is in a dom slot

[royal lantern]

imagine HAVING gear

and not progression KT

with 0 mythic raid items

🙂

[viscid spear]

Imagine imagining.

[oak sky]

go pug it

way quicker

[balmy condor]

I went down an ilevel in the last 2 weeks

[drifting cloud]

well its only helm boots where its a big difference

[royal lantern]

yes, lets pug mythic raids

kekw

[balmy condor]

Think about that

[drifting cloud]

and theres 2 crit boots

[oak sky]

oh u said 0 mythic raid items

damn

unlucky

[balmy condor]

2 weeks ago I killed mythic eye with 245

This week I killed it with 244

Love it

[drifting cloud]

but what about the decimals

[still elm]

@balmy condor what’s your sim looking like

[oak sky]

the ilvl parse improves because you have less gear

[balmy condor]

Little over 10k on sub, nothing worth mentioning on sin

[viscid spear]

Soon you'll kill it wearing nothing and facing the other direction

[still elm]

Sub hurts my brain

[balmy condor]

It’ll wrap back around like a Möbius strip and I’ll be 900 ilvl like in legion

[oak sky]

im actually grinding for t6 korthia now that i got t5

before i wasnt doing anything, now im waiting for rares, going in the rift

the works

[viscid spear]

Whispyr finna run some science on these bosses

[oak sky]

turn the monitor off for the next boss progression

hopefully its guardian

[plush garnet]

whispyr u have sylv daggers?

[balmy condor]

Uno

[plush garnet]

Noice noice

[still elm]

My guild doesn’t wanna do heroic sylv so no daggers for me 🥺

[balmy condor]

I’ve had to trade nerzul neck twice btw

[oak sky]

now the advice is unironically pug it

[balmy condor]

I’m still wearing the heroic