upgrade tokens
#assassination
narrow ravine
green peak
How much benefit do we get from wind fury totem, roughly?
slim pebble
So just RNG? Kk
oak sky
If you do korthia every once in a while the crescent drops at least once or twice a week
I literally only do dailies and a few rares and i have full 226 from having 200 and 213 last patch
shy dust
How much benefit do we get from wind fury totem, roughly?
Wow general pins
narrow ravine
I upgraded everything to 226 using korthia tokens, then they are adding something next week so your upgrades are spec specific
so the 252 upgrade items will be better
wide ridge
would you guys go theotar or nadjia for a +20 TOP this week?
narrow ravine
sorry, that link preview is huge
wide ridge
i'm kinda divided
upper trout
so if i choose the unholy / frost set with "replace gems and enchants" in raidbots it will sim dom gem set bonuses yes?
kind talon
would you guys go theotar or nadjia for a +20 TOP this week?
Either is fine. I think I’d suggest theotar though
hollow river
this didn't work for me the other day
ebon notch
@kind talon what did I fuck up how is frost simming 1k less
I must have missed something super obvious
narrow ravine
you are not even wearing a frost shoulder item
oak sky
Other thing could be the levels of the shards
balmy condor
this didn't work for me the other day
didn't work how
ebon notch
Fuck
kind talon
You need the shoulder item man
ebon notch
I forgot I hadn't added the frost shoulder
balmy condor
a classic
kind talon
😔
balmy condor
phone sims are the worst
hollow river
didn't work how
it didn't add into the sim
balmy condor
just wait till you get home
ebon notch
I am in bed
balmy condor
it didn't add into the sim
then you added it wrong
hollow river
no u
balmy condor
then sleep
ebon notch
But gf wants me to "stop simulating"
hollow river
wowhead added it wrong
narrow ravine
im sad your no frost shoulder sims are higher than my sims still
ebon notch
Can't seem to be able to turn off windfury which is cringe
kind talon
narrow ravine
also if you override your shards, you need to pick all 5, it was not putting anything in your boots
ebon notch
Speculating for the future
ebon notch
also if you override your shards, you need to pick all 5, it was not putting any...
Guess I'm doing it again
ebon notch
It adds like 400 DPS that's a lot of mental maths
balmy condor
the dps number isn't why you sim though
ebon notch
See
balmy condor
you sim to see if things are better
ebon notch
the dps number isn't why you sim though
Lies
kind talon
so comparing with wft or without wft
balmy condor
you don't sim to see how much damage you should do
kind talon
irrelevant
kind talon
true
ebon notch
Ok I'm losing my mind can you sim for me please @kind talon
And can you add a dashing scoundrel comparison
kind talon
@ebon notch
oh
didnt see the dashing scoundrel
ill add that in a sec, here's the initial sim
(adding KT shoulders at 246 which is already an upgrade over what u have)
ebon notch
Bruh my guild brought a guildies friend to KT heroic cause he said he could trade everything
He got KT shoulders and couldn't trade
narrow ravine
sneaky, like a rogue
ebon notch
I almost tried to choke him through the screen
narrow ravine
why would you assume that, and not inspect his gear first?
kind talon
here u go
ebon notch
why would you assume that, and not inspect his gear first?
I was against any non guildie coming but I'm not in charge
balmy condor
narrow ravine
obed obv
kind talon
the names?
ebon notch
On mobile
kind talon
on mobile?
ebon notch
No
narrow ravine
load desktop site on your mobile
kind talon
what i linked above
ebon notch
I clicked on it and it took me to the wowhrad page for the fucking runecarver item
ebon notch
I'm going into the full html report so I can actually understand what's going on
kind talon
wide mode
ebon notch
Html report got me the info I need
narrow ravine
they need augmented motion assisted browsing on mobile
kind talon
OH NO
ebon notch
I hate that me being on mobile makes me look brain damaged
kind talon
exposeeeddd
ebon notch
Please forgive me
balmy condor
it's true
narrow ravine
imagine your phone was a window you could look through, like moving a magnifying glass over a sheet of paper, you move the phone to see different parts of the page through the looking glass
kind talon
<a:hmmmnodder:858756839865188362>
hmmnodder is goated
balmy condor
kind talon
adding that to favorites
gif function actually makes me able to nitro without nitro
just dont tell the devs
ebon notch
So that's a 262 dashing right?
kind talon
yes
ebon notch
Jesus frost dashing with KT shoulders is literally 400 DPS increase
Was that rank 4 or rank 5 frost
Rank 4 I assume right to match my unholy
kind talon
rank 4
ebon notch
Pog
ebon notch
Which one
kind talon
haste mastery
ebon notch
Wait what
kind talon
ebon notch
I have Hella pog crit rings
ebon notch
Yeah cause it Sims higher for me in the gear I'm using rn
Does it let you choose from my other rings?
kind talon
i just gear compared
ebon notch
Ah I see
kind talon
a 230 crafted crit haste ring with a socket
kind talon
nah ur good bro
ebon notch
Damn that's 100 DPS just from the ilvl
Poogers
Now to watch KT shoulders not drop and this all becomes irrelevant
ebon notch
Does the rotation change much with dashing?
kind talon
no
ebon notch
What are you focusing on
kind talon
dashing is just passive
its just the same rotation
i dont think anything changes the rotation
from our available leggos
priority list is still the same
oak sky
Dashy dashy dashy
kind talon
no
now, if you were
lets say
running the talent
"venom rush"
you might feel that extra energy
ebon notch
Gotta love feelycrafting
oak sky
Me when i play master poisoner subterfuge mfd prey on the weak venom rush hidden blades
ebon notch
Ah yes
Ultimate bravery build
I wonder if hidden blades would be good pad on soulrender
ebon notch
Yeah ik but I wasn't allowed to do it cause I was a trial and they were watching me like a hawk
Had to play normal sadge
ebon notch
Some of the early parses were
Btw with the winds of winter buff
It says after it procs it absorbs 100% of your damage or some bs
What does that even mean
oak sky
Ct is good on soulrender but im not tryna change my talents
ebon notch
That seems like a pog defensive
kind talon
Ct is good on soulrender but im not tryna change my talents
imagine not playing ct on soulrender
thats actually
extremely cringe
oak sky
Sorry
kind talon
That seems like a pog defensive
yes frost build is fucking OP on soulrender for real
oak sky
Am i in a mythic guild
kind talon
its sooooo good
oak sky
kind talon
legit on god yepcocekr
ebon notch
Imagine if you got that big ass shield just before third shatter on remnant
ebon notch
legit on god yepcocekr
You're cracked out of your mind
ebon notch
Only procs every 20s tho
ebon notch
Does vendetta increase the proc damage
kind talon
Does vendetta increase the proc damage
nah the vendetta aura only applies to rogue abilities basically
ebon notch
That's stupid as fuck healing
ebon notch
Imposter
ebon notch
Can you sim me as outlaw I probably fucked up that sim also
(if you aren't busy or anything)
ebon notch
<3
obtuse robin
hollow river
imagine not playing ct on soulrender
imagine not playing sub on soulrender for the REAL pad
kind talon
hollow river
hollow river
nah
kind talon
nah
warm saffron
warlock needs some utility improvements otherwise only busted, busted damage will make that happen
warm saffron
no bl, no soothe, long cd kick, hard CC has laughably few targets, aoe crowd control is ridiculous compared to boomie (which also brings a brez)
oak sky
warlock does bring brez tho no?
warm saffron
yes
hollow river
ye
kind talon
yeah it does
hollow river
yes really
fallen arch
watch it be fire mage boomie x again
Think not
warm saffron
roots > shadowfury
fallen arch
Fire mage spot will be filled by ele
oak sky
idk about that
hollow river
Fire mage spot will be filled by ele
no
oak sky
dont they run both now?
warm saffron
we're talking about utility 👀
hollow river
fire mage is still really good
oak sky
it might be fire mage ele x this time
fallen arch
Ye it is
kind talon
or rogue
warm saffron
warlock needs some utility improvements otherwise only busted, busted damage will make that happen
hollow river
no rogue
oak sky
COPIUM
kind talon
yeah
hollow river
fallen arch
Rogue can work
hollow river
oak sky
yeah rogue is good
fallen arch
But almost no team is gonna switch out boomie
fallen arch
Too good on a lot of stuff
kind talon
realistically
fallen arch
Ele boomie x
hollow river
fire boomie x
oak sky
watch it be fire mage boomie x again
bllll
oak sky
that would be really disappointing
hollow river
im gonna make a boomie and name it Fireboomiex
quaint carbon
hollow river
half quarry
hey theorycrafters!
i have a question does poison bomb benefits from master poisoner talent/zoldyck/dashing?
wanna try a meme build for mythic plus
alos mastery ?
also*
balmy condor
yes, yes, yes, and yes
half quarry
kk thx 🙂 lets see how bad goes xD wanna try old legion playstyle where poison bomb was god
arctic hare
Oh god
balmy condor
as long as you know what you're getting into
picking the worst 2 talents
not good
half quarry
usually i pull 10k on m+ so missing 3k on a 15 wont be much tbh
half quarry
yeah but my point is if i pull 7k on a 15 its enough to do it on time 🙂
fallen arch
Was this zoldyck?
fallen arch
Bit scuffed tho breh
half quarry
on big pulls i did only evenenoms
fallen arch
With a monk and an enha
kind talon
lmaoooooo
fallen arch
Where’s yo warrior
pseudo hamlet
Raging Axe anima power instead of bonus crit? Hmmm
fallen arch
Bolster is the play this week
half quarry
had 45 crit already so meh
fallen arch
With the explosives
half quarry
guys guys
i was meeming xD
trying new stuff but yeah for sure is subpar to meta talents and stuff
but it was fun cant deny that
pseudo hamlet
9k seems high, even more so if it was done with the "meme build" 😄
hollow river
did you keep up 5 bleeds? then just straight fok envenoms
half quarry
i opened with Fok and if it was 5-6 adds with rupture 2-3 targets and get the 3 bonespike charges
shiv biggest guy and Fok-envenom, also didnt grab more crit cuz i had the 50% crit talent
balmy condor
he was playing ma
half quarry
yee
kind talon
kekw
hollow river
weirdge
balmy condor
yes
kind talon
hellyea
kind talon
dont u get MA during vanish
hollow river
ye
kind talon
if it sims higher for some people, then it probably does more dam
for their profile
hollow river
no i didn't mean that
kind talon
you mean like
hollow river
i just mean to have some bleeds up faster for the meme build
kind talon
snapshotting a rupture?
kind talon
or subterfuge
balmy condor
I don't get the question
hollow river
like
kind talon
what is the meme build
balmy condor
3 subterfuge garrotes is the fastest energy regen you can get
kind talon
that ur referring to
hollow river
3 subterfuge garrotes is the fastest energy regen you can get
ik
balmy condor
idk, more
balmy condor
probably not
hollow river
y
kind talon
oh his build
kind talon
he has no support for subt, no obedience no zoldyck
playing dashing and mainly pressing FoK
and spreading poisons for master poisoner 
pseudo hamlet
A few question about M+:
- When do we use Shiv? On cooldown? If yes, then it does change our rotation in higher packs? Like what if we're facing 4-5 opponents? Do we use FoK + Envenom?
- What's our highest priority in AoE? 5 bleeds and then Fok + envenom/rupture(if it's going to fall off)?
- Does the usage of FoK changes with the Katar conduit? Or we're still using FoK with 4 or higher number of enemies?
balmy condor
A few question about M+:
1. When do we use Shiv? On cooldown? If yes, then it do...
- yes, no
- bleed everything that lives long enough
- no
hollow river
but im noob
kind talon
i see
hollow river
garrote cp < fok cp
i dont mean garrote cp...
i mean instead of spending on rupt u spend on more env
hollow river
if u have poisons out and garrotes ur saturated enough for just straight env spam?
pseudo hamlet
1. yes, no
2. bleed everything that lives long enough
3. no
So...
- Shiv on CD but we don't particularly use FoK + Envenom on the enemies(that are "shived") even if they already have 5 bleeds?
- Even if that means >7 ruptures and 3 garrotes?
balmy condor
okay, MA talent is good why.
- Poison application from stealth
- Dashing crit means you're at 100% crit for poisons probably, and you're getting energy back from them
- Fok cp pretty good
- It's just good
subterfuge is good because
- 3 garrotes better than 1
- empowered garrote do damage
- energy from bleeds quickly set up
they're both good
it doesn't matter
you can play either
hollow river
.
balmy condor
with out dashing, the same applies
kind talon
So...
1. Shiv on CD but we don't particularly use FoK + Envenom on the enemies(...
- yes, you prio the shiv target when you envenom, envenom priority doesnt change
balmy condor
So...
1. Shiv on CD but we don't particularly use FoK + Envenom on the enemies(...
- correct
- it could mean a thousand ruptures for all I care
kind talon
So...
1. Shiv on CD but we don't particularly use FoK + Envenom on the enemies(...
- yes, your #1 prio is to maintain CT, then just bleed them
hollow river
you prio keeping SnD up with FoK > Envenom
oak sky
bolster power is sick
ardenweald pulls
with explosive
felt so good
in my dos just now
pseudo hamlet
Oh, that may be the reason why my DPS isn't that spectacular. I expected more.
I was just using FoK + Envenom spam after the 5 bleeds.
Thanks guys 😄
kind talon
Oh, that may be the reason why my DPS isn't that spectacular. I expected more.
I...
yeah, just garrote on CD and rupture, only envenom to keep up snd, and try to envenom priority / shiv target :))
balmy condor
Oh, that may be the reason why my DPS isn't that spectacular. I expected more.
I...
Hopefully that clears it up 
versed mica
For dashing, does the energy gen only happen with envenom buff, or is that all the time, and envenom buff gives the crit?
idle star
Permanent energy gen. Temporary crit bonus
kind talon
bleak sun
Should we let fall of Snd at 8+ target ?
balmy condor
no
bleak sun
OK ty
thin trout
guys, i can't really find in the faq, when do we use FoK over muti?
cunning magnet
i thought it was at 3+ targets
potent dagger
Wait , what ? you use dashing on multi target ? Oo
potent dagger
Oh ok that's what i was thinking
SInce envenom is the last thing i dump energy on , in multi target
Obe still sims the best for me with MA in DS
balmy condor
yeah
potent dagger
i still dunno why , but i'm getting way better MM+ overall in assa than in sub :x
Could be a lack of practice in sub , but sub multitarget is pretty straight forward ^^
balmy condor
usually either holding cds too much, or your tank doing pussy pulls
potent dagger
Maybe a little of both
zinc frost
Holding CDs because the tank pussy pulls :p
potent dagger
or i hate the sub gameplay so much that i'm having a mindblock playing it XD
zinc frost
Good thing all the specs are relatively close that you can play what you enjoy.
fallen arch
Ye but when tank does big boy pulls, sub does pull ahead
I really like sin this week in ToP and Spires tho
shadow tusk
Does envenom have pandemic on the buff?
coarse depot
Good thing all the specs are relatively close that you can play what you enjoy.
i feel like i'm trolling, when i play assa instead of sub in m+. especially in tyrannical when trash dies too fast for bleeds to carry me. keys i play are 15-18
oak sky
im in the same range and it usually goes alright
just blast bosses instead on tyrannical 
coarse depot
my sub-playing guild mate blasts bosses just as hard as me
fallen arch
i feel like i'm trolling, when i play assa instead of sub in m+. especially in t...
Hitting 10k + overall doesnt feel like trolling
When best most other dps can do is 7-8k
viscid spear
walk into a dungeon
commence the stabbing
coarse depot
sure
oak sky
rogue in general is already super nice in m+
then you get iron wire talent for some early mob control, if you run zoldyck you have good execute on bosses and trash
your cleave is sick
but you still arent sub
but you're alright
warped temple
I think all 3 rogue specs are really good this tier. nice to have options
fallen arch
There, Ryfie said it
oak sky
wise words from top 2 rio guy 
zinc frost
The great man himself
potent dagger
Sub cleave is what make me sick XD
fallen arch
And then he turns around and only plays sub
strong cipher
Sub cleave is what make me sick XD
Same !
warped temple
they all just perform differently..
outlaw - st/cleave
sub - st/aoe
sin - jack of all trades
potent dagger
i pray Blizz god every night for them to bring us CT as baseline talent
For now still nothing T_T
coarse depot
i pray Blizz god every night for them to bring us CT as baseline talent
and put aoe-exsa there instead?^^
potent dagger
Nah , venomous wound on that tier would be great 😄
strong cipher
Like a Bleed Powder would be crazy !
fallen arch
I think sin is fine as is in m+
warped temple
and put aoe-exsa there instead?^^
that would be really neat. exsang affects all bleeds on targets 😛
fallen arch
Maybe remove target cap on fok
fallen arch
that would be really neat. exsang affects all bleeds on targets 😛
Oh yeah, like that torghast power
potent dagger
They could give us a new poison in fact
by talent
that like the crimson poison on thorgast
that would be great
and give us value on mastery
zinc frost
Shrouded suffocation 
potent dagger
i think that's such a shame that mastery is so low , since it work arround class mechanics :/
fallen arch
Wdym
oak sky
red ink?
fallen arch
For aoe mastery is pretty good
It just loses value in st
But that’s a trade off thats only logical to me
balmy condor
They could give us a new poison in fact
I'm going to shamelessly throw this thing in that I did in january for fun because you reminded me
I thought it was boring as shit
but people have said it's a fun read
balmy condor
I'm not making anyone read anything
fallen arch
I know 
balmy condor
potent dagger
@balmy condor i 100% agree with your Doc , i miss my legion crit / mastery gameplay T_T
was slow , but hit like a truck XD
magic gale
is it worth using enevenom at 3combo points with elabore planning?
balmy condor
no
magic gale
thanks
do we want to keep pooling so we can chain 4-5 cp envenoms with elaborate planning / shiv, or just use shiv on cd? 😄
balmy condor
shiv on cooldown
(this is all in #assassination-faq so far btw, would highly suggest checking that out)
oak sky
that is an interesting doc
magic gale
ah i see sorry
zinc frost
@balmy condor what’s the likelihood of blizz devs contacting legit theory crafters to get insight into spec balance/changes? Is it something they do already like I’m not sure but just curious
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> what’s the likelihood of blizz devs contacting legit theor...
already something that sorta happens. It's not really like a direct line or anything like that, but they do pay attention to the bug tracker and the sims from what it seems
sometimes things specifically get passed along to them
oak sky
like obe outlier
balmy condor
but it's mostly just bugs and like hey this is like a million % stronger than it should be
not really like "hey this spec plays badly here's a suggestion" or something like that
whether they listen to it is also hit or miss
see example 1. Sub tuning in bfa
oak sky
it definitely feels like they should at least be in contact with your type of people about how your community feels about each class
like if it needs improvements big rework etc
balmy condor
I understand that idea, and to some extent I agree that they should listen to the community
but they also don't really design the game around "us"
oak sky
true
balmy condor
(being the high end pve players)
and even then, I'm quite a small fry
like I'm just a dude who sits in discord and hits the "start stream" button on my obs every once in a while
spice spire
Nah ur big boy
oak sky
but it seems like they should at least want to know how each class community feels, even if it isnt the be all end all
ur a big boy here
ur not like me just sitting here turning assassination into off topic and feeling bad about it
balmy condor
ur not like me just sitting here turning assassination into off topic and feelin...
yeah that's my job stop taking it from me
oak sky
lol
zinc frost
Hey it’s still related cause we are talking about possible sin changes! As much as I love sin in all content, there could definitely be some QoL changes
balmy condor
I mean I think the document should show pretty clearly where I stand :P
I think the talents are just outdated
oak sky
a few hot takes
balmy condor
there just havent been changes
oak sky
but the base idea is great
zinc frost
How old is this document, feel like I read it a while ago
balmy condor
How old is this document, feel like I read it a while ago
8 months at least
thin coral
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qGsZILbtH5OKH-s8ZpNcFIJTW0hOffjy7UrP4KaNj4w...
This is really good, very good read. Would recommend :)
zinc frost
I have plenty of those
You have hot takes!? no way :p
balmy condor
You have hot takes!? no way :p
I had an argument on stream that got clipped like 3 times
the hottest take probably
I think chicken nuggets/strips are better microwaved
than any other way
spice spire
Stop
balmy condor
because they're too dry otherwise
spice spire
Not this pain again
spice spire
balmy condor
Shiv on CD
so true
arctic walrus
Shiv on CD
Disagree
spice spire
arctic walrus
Prove me wrong pussy
balmy condor
Prove me wrong pussy
link sims
oak sky
personally i think the only barrier to ct being baseline is how bad it feels to never envenom
in a weird way your rework fixes that
lol
balmy condor
in a weird way your rework fixes that
yeah that's sorta the most "elegant" way I could think of
balmy condor
You got sims for that statement?
I mean, yes
the sims shiv on cooldown
and have for years
arctic walrus
Nah did you sim “link sims”
zinc frost
thats like when i started this game
Did you never get to enjoy the shrouded suffocation azerite power from bfa?
arctic walrus
Need those sims
oak sky
never
oak sky
im a prepatch baby
spice spire
Need those sims
That’s a mood
arctic walrus
My sims here say you’re a loss-er
spice spire
arctic walrus
balmy condor
fiery mauve
balmy condor
<:uglyassdog2:428793477413994496>
link uglyassdog1
zinc frost
im a prepatch baby
Think about how much damage garrote does now but triple it and we had initial burst from it. Soooo good
arctic walrus
link uglyassdog1
Uglyassdawg1🪞
balmy condor
Uglyassdawg1🪞
I'm deadass not giving you my new emotes
oak sky
a few months ago
balmy condor
balmy condor
killed sylvanas and decided to dunk people
balmy condor
2cp garrote sounds cool
1 cp garrote just hurts
zinc frost
i had an idea that pb got turned into a cd finisher
Yeah legion sin was good times too
balmy condor
3 cp garrote is kinda nuts
spice spire
Wait I didn’t know they killed grats Vel 
balmy condor
i had an idea that pb got turned into a cd finisher
seli's idea was that it was connected to shiv
oak sky
hmmm
balmy condor
like you would shiv and it would pb on the next envenom
or something along those lines
oak sky
pretty cool
arctic walrus
Vel’s choosing violence today <:pepehands:757566347558387803>
I’m listening to doja rn bro I’m on my girl boss type shit
oak sky
lowkey i think theres more potential with pb baseline than ct
like ct is already a good ability mostly
balmy condor
PB's really problematic is the issue
oak sky
might as well fix something thats broken instead
spice spire
I’m listening to doja rn bro I’m on my girl boss type shit
Respect it 
zinc frost
Hopefully the potential isn’t tied to borrowed power and an actual class design change
fallen arch
In my head it should be about as big as Ashen Hallow
oak sky
like a targeted aoe
fallen arch
KABOOM
oak sky
then you can drop it where you want it
fallen arch
there's a poison bomb you won't recover from
balmy condor
In my head it should be about as big as Ashen Hallow
in my head it's just starfall
zinc frost
“Oh no my bombs”
arctic walrus
Since legion I have advocated for pb to be a 45s 2-3 charge on demand aoe
fallen arch
Since legion I have advocated for pb to be a 45s 2-3 charge on demand aoe
and as big as Ashen, let's not forget
balmy condor
you know the lorderon intro quest
with sylvanas just dunking the whole city in blight
that's poison bomb
fallen arch
hehe ye
zinc frost
I think Death and decay sized PB would be acceptable
arctic walrus
and as big as Ashen, let's not forget
I’ll do you one better, p1 veil of darkness size
oak sky
then maybe an actual talent
arctic walrus
Yeah let me just carry this flask of poison big enough to cover a diameter of a foot ball field
oak sky
on 50
spice spire
Yeah let me just carry this flask of poison big enough to cover a diameter of a ...
Flask of poison, what is this vanilla?
fallen arch
5x sin rogue is now the meta
oak sky
nah
arctic walrus
I changed the size example so don’t ask why I just said the diameter of a square
oak sky
put it on a 45s cd
fallen arch
Just pull and tricks each other
spice spire
We just make poison out of thin air now 
balmy condor
I changed the size example so don’t ask why I just said the diameter of a square
just too cranial
arctic walrus
My degree ain’t in that kinda path
balmy condor
okay but what if tricks was a dps cooldown
like it made you and your tricks target do idk
10% more damage
arctic walrus
Yooo
zinc frost
Oh no
fallen arch
Then I'd use it on cd like I do now
zinc frost
“Pls give me tricks I have more burst”
quaint carbon
can you clear traps on painsmith with cloak like we do on xymox ?
zinc frost
We would become priests
arctic walrus
I mean yes but you’re gonna be the last man standing
zinc frost
Like raid utility?
spice spire
“Pls give me tricks I have more burst”
Enabling boomkins 
fallen arch
PLS GIVE SMOKE BOMB VOLUME 12321
arctic walrus
Pain smith new br in agreon’s guild
balmy condor
Pain smith new br in agreon’s guild
different wicked guy
fallen arch
delmaszm
spice spire
So many wicked gamers in ravenholdt
oak sky
guid
arctic walrus
Dude these fucking giga zoomers
arctic walrus
With the wicked pictures
oak sky
"guild"
arctic walrus
There’s like 4
balmy condor
spice spire
arctic walrus
lol
Lowkey high key bro I have no clue who the fuck You is I just made an assumption
zinc frost
I almost got confused too it’s okay, colours and shapes confuse us
arctic walrus
My main goal in life way to blow up and act like I know nobody
oak sky
vel, you changed
arctic walrus
You’re right I spent a few months barely talking in spec channels
oak sky
yeah tbh i dont know you either i only know people that hang out in here
balmy condor
aight so here's a question. If you're in single target, and had to choose between taking PB and never proccing it, or taking CT but wearing dashing and never using it
which would you take
arctic walrus
Swap to sub
fallen arch
aight so here's a question. If you're in single target, and had to choose betwee...
Eh
sand heath
it's either take PB but it does nothing
Take PB with hope, it may proc 1 time as that will be better gain then a spell you never use…
oak sky
whispyr wants us to go through this mental strain 
balmy condor
it's 3:30am I'm just eating a sandwich watching the world burn
tulip nacelle
https://tenor.com/view/summer-time-santoria-riff-raff-gif-5380029
makes me wish vines were more culturally referenced 
keen gyro
Does numbing poison work on raid bosses? Read in blizz forums that it sticks for 1 auto attack of the boss or something, can anybody confirm this?
balmy condor
it slows auto attack speed yes
keen gyro
Wow so we actually bring some utility to the raid😁 thanks
balmy condor
well
kinda yes
but I wouldn't go telling your raid leader that
:P
it's really not that impressive
tacit pilot
so how is everyone going on the frost build, i didnt have the frost shards and i stupidly put it into blood but it seems to being doing some DMG https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n2v4j7tqR1WcLDdK/#fight=last&type=damage-done
blood shards are ranked 4
tacit pilot
going to try frost was just seeing whats the dmg like compared to my blood link doing 259k
250k
keen gyro
it's really not that impressive
Yeah but before i switched from ele to rogue we had no rogues in our HC raid. So having at least 1 should not be a mistake😁
clear cairn
Unholy currently sims 300 dps higher for me than frost. I'm not sure if i'm doing the sim right on raidbots.. If I select the 3 frost shards in the top gear while having the unholy bonus equipped will it compare the unholy vs frost set then?
clear cairn
aah okay, thank you!
marble hemlock
You'll also need to actually have shoulders from the raid, it won't sim the frost set if you don't have an item that grants the bonus.
burnt star
Also. If u have shit crit % frost will sim lower
And. Frost needs some playing around on some raid boss to actualy be good.
fallen arch
And. Frost needs some playing around on some raid boss to actualy be good.
Reasoning?
hollow dirge
Reasoning?
Idk about his reasoning, but I do believe ds frost has a higher dps loss on any downtime, since it relies heavily on melee/poison crits
thorny pond
Unholy procs during downtime =fuck
Frost procs then it’s smaller damage but you just rebuild when back
potent dagger
so every set is going to contribute to zero dps
and i feel that loosing your stacks on unholly would hurt you the more ^^
crystal delta
are you all using oils or sharpening stones btw 😄
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
potent dagger
For the next question 😉
real bay
stones
hollow dirge
and i feel that loosing your stacks on unholly would hurt you the more ^^
You only got stuck on set, but I was talking legendary as well. Losing uptime on a legendary configuration that relies on extra energy from melee, so losing uptime is losing energy is losing finishers etc. while losing uptime on doomblade is much less punishing
Set wise, the loss is similar
burnt star
Reasoning?
I specified some boss:
The eye. If she goes immune with a few sec on your buff. Need to make sure to be close to the add spawn to have a new target that u crit on it. Or u just wasted 21k-48k damage
On remnant. Need to be careful not to attack an orb thats immune when u have a few sec left on the buff. Otherwise it might be wasted. (When u have 3 sec left) not bleeding an orb for that much isnt woryh 21k-48k damage
Basicly. Anytime a mob goes immune or will die before your wind of winter proc. Need to try and crit another target
Before
fallen arch
Fair enough, but don’t see the other sets being any different
burnt star
For the exact exemple listed. Unholy has no downside
U didnt waste 20 sec build up
U keep your agi buff even if u wiggle around an immune orb or an immune eye. Etc
I Dont play blood. So u cant talk for that one
burnt star
In the example above u would think 1 wasted build up is trivial. But do the math
If frost sims 200 dps above unholy on 5 min patchwork
And u waste a 48k crit
Thats 160 dps lost right there
warm parcel
160 but ye
burnt star
So the frost is now on par with unholy (excluding all other factor) that both benefits
Sry typo
warm parcel
Yeye thats a totally fair point
kind talon
while you have chaos bane up
warm parcel
Frost can misfire but ut can also insta prio targets
Theres points where you can think with frost
Other two are just there
kind talon
and frost gets a good amount of value in cleave too
burnt star
Yep
kind talon
from funnel
they both have potential downsides
but i dont see any scenario where id play unholy personally, frost defensive utility is just super strong
burnt star
Well thats something else
warm parcel
A scen where one already leveled unholy to 4 before changes
Now Id likely just get frost
fallen arch
Caling for a dps stop is always bad for dps
burnt star
Point was simply that in some fight. U actualy need to track your wind of winter and play accordinly. Otherwise u waste proc
And wasting proc makes frost bad
alpine garden
Frost gives you dank healing parses
kind talon
true
burnt star
Of course!!
Also frost proc synergise well with your build reasoning
U want high crit for higher winds damage buff
And that wind damage has high chance of crit since ur building crit
timid talon
saw a 75k winds crit on guardian 
manic quartz
what kind of crit i should have before changing to frost from unholy, im currently at 26% crit and same rank frost shard set sims 100~ dps better for me
gusty mirage
Don’t make me do it I’m trying to be good
frigid kestrel
I got %40 crit and R3 Frost, and it’s beats out my R4 Unholy set. Just trust the sims and you’ll be good
timid talon
again, there is no specific % of crit you need to make it work. Just sim it, rank 3 frost sims higher than rank 5 unholy with 36%
wheat vigil
239 mh, 233 sylv dagger - should it go in the main hand slot for the extra attacks or does it even matter
gusty mirage
again, there is no specific % of crit you need to make it work. Just sim it, ran...
He’s just memeing about a certain “content creator” who stated that you need 45% crit to switch to frost
pure moth
I specified some boss:
The eye. If she goes immune with a few sec on your buf...
So, do u track it with a wa then?
wheat vigil
He’s just memeing about a certain “content creator” who stated that you need 45%...
I thought frost was shatter capped at 33
Nevermind, I’m daft
gusty mirage
It’s okay I am too, any blindside gamers on sylvanas? 
wheat vigil
I certainly hope not
frigid kestrel
Ya boy oxi straight aped bs/ds on H sylv because he was too lazy to change talen...
Just only hit Sylvie and forget everything else in the entire fight
gusty mirage
ngl not my proudest moment
frigid kestrel
On add phase just spam FOK and /sleep
frigid kestrel
ngl not my proudest moment
Honestly tho, it’s not worse then fighting her with the Finality Lego on
gusty mirage
Ruined a good parse night with a solid green parse because of my laziness
frigid kestrel
I do keys in Sub and right after doing a PF I got into a heroic
gusty mirage
viscid spear
Fat rupture damage?
She's been dead for so long she doesn't have to worry about bleeding so he was just helping her to remember the feeling.
viscid spear
New Sin meta Finality + exsanguinate
Good thing I was Sub at the start and have Finality.
But I'm still working on crafting Dashing, feels weird having 3 leggos on the cloak slot.
thorny pond
Rather have them on same slot than a bunch then I need to farm a bunch of good alternatives
gusty mirage
Yea I wanted to level my celerity next so I could run some outlol in raid and then I realized I don’t have a cloak that isn’t a legendary anymore
keen gyro
Apart from the perfect scenario (almost max energy, 4 cp, shiv ready) would you pool cp's and energy before using shiv when its rdy? Or just shiv as soon as it is ready regardless of resources?
thorny pond
Shiv on CD
you'll get better at learning the 24s cycles and start to feel out the windows to pool better
balmy condor
@gusty mirage yo do you know this rogue?
keen gyro
you'll get better at learning the 24s cycles and start to feel out the windows t...
Kk thanks!
ruby oyster
how much energy i can expect from dashing? im dropping from 24% haste to 14% if i commit fully intro crit, normally it feels like shit to play but can dashing make that difference back?
thorny pond
how much energy i can expect from dashing? im dropping from 24% haste to 14% if ...
You'll get more CPs back from FoK crits and better 3-4 returns on mutilate
ornate dawn
I was confused my message vanished @balmy condor 
balmy condor
Yeh
thorny pond
how much energy i can expect from dashing? im dropping from 24% haste to 14% if ...
And yes dashing does help alleviate some lower crit, but Venth has a ton of haste windows
ornate dawn
Yeah I figured
burnt star
So, do u track it with a wa then?
Yep! Using winds of winter w.a. let me see the timer left. And damage build up it has
That 1
The build up is more a niche thing. The most useful info is the time left
winter vapor
are people using CT on soulrender? and are you doing much of anything to the adds? (I'm dpsing them if im branded and next but thats about it)
HC btw
limber lion
Yes. You should use CT.
fallen arch
are people using CT on soulrender? and are you doing much of anything to the add...
Yes
limber lion
It will be your highest damage dealing ability in the fight.
fallen arch
Especially when ur able to grip em together
gusty mirage
<@192059095279337473> yo do you know this rogue?
dusty peak
Easiest way to answer spec questions like that is to just look at top parses btw. In most situatuions it’ll tell you.
gusty mirage
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/28#boss=2434&difficulty=4®ion=-1&c...
Rumor has it that #2 on that list is cute
alpine garden
Is EP/Vig the go to for SoD?
winter vapor
@fallen arch @limber lion ty
actually was very low, probably need to do it more for the adds rahter than tunnel the boss, it is however a no DK kill so :p
fallen arch
Rumor has it that #2 on that list is cute
And the first received a kaziljon pi’s
winter vapor
@dusty peak appreciate the answer, just know I tend to go an answer quicker here when im mid fight
lusty surge
Easiest way to answer spec questions like that is to just look at top parses btw...
i love the mythic logs in top 100 that are using pb
why use ct when you can just be lucky?
gusty mirage
And the first received a kaziljon pi’s
There’s only one way to beat a legend, and that’s with a lotta externals
fallen arch
Or you plot to get rid of him
cobalt pelican
it's heroic, the advice was mostly for mythic
dusty peak
<@!264189810476843008> appreciate the answer, just know I tend to go an answer q...
no worries i wasnt trying to discourage you or anything
cobalt pelican
on heroic half of the time the ads don't ever get stacked or branded or anyhting they just kinda walk around randomly
fallen arch
That is true