246
#assassination
pale ibex
sharp zodiac
That’s odd?
subtle gyro
i dont think you MH a Slyv dagger?
sharp zodiac
i dont think you MH a Slyv dagger?
Yeah I think you’re correct
The Sylv dagger isn’t even in this sim
solemn plaza
it's in there
sharp zodiac
I’m on mobile mb
pale ibex
but maybe there could be another problem give me a min
sharp zodiac
scuffed raidbots mobile
pale ibex
just to proof you 😄
pale ibex
but the enchant
sharp zodiac
No no I saw it that’s my bad
pale ibex
could be the problem on patchwerk sim
sharp zodiac
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tpPqWHYCLan2StuXsVcT4W
Sim “Deadly Sinvyr Ring” on you. What does it do for you
runic maple
cld any1 link the the place where there's listed defensives for SOD? there was made one by the community or something but I cant find it
solemn plaza
pin in wow general
runic maple
ty
pale ibex
dagger is about "only" about 40 dps 
thin imp
pale ibex
but thanks blossoms
solemn plaza
np
pseudo hamlet
Why it's even possible to use the Theotar tea when you have Nadija soulbinds, that's a total bs. Now I've got it on CD 
harsh juniper
Savage
pale ibex
Sim “Deadly Sinvyr Ring” on you. What does it do for you
why do you think the ring would sim more? but i will do a sim with that
sharp zodiac
why do you think the ring would sim more? but i will do a sim with that
I just want to see what the Extra crit looks like for you
pure moth
i dont think you MH a Slyv dagger?
Sims higher in my mh
pseudo hamlet
Always get higher dmg dagger in the MH.
subtle gyro
Always get higher dmg dagger in the MH.
im not 100% on that btw. Just what ive noticed
pseudo hamlet
im not 100% on that btw. Just what ive noticed
What do you mean?
sharp zodiac
btw i dont find the sims for all domination shards
They should just be in a giant list on the top gear page
And there’s a box on the enchant section that says “replace gems and enchants” click that
pale ibex
i mean these top sims like in the pins
pale ibex
thanks again
hollow river
im not 100% on that btw. Just what ive noticed
Higher agi dagger goes in MH
@sharp zodiac @pale ibex sub pins are frost only sims I think
hollow river
Oh my, I never noticed (:
My bad
Was starting to wonder why that wasn’t a thing yet
kind veldt
M pain smith, are you guys throwing up GR and 1-2 pt rupture on the target ball. MUT or FoKs to try funnel combo pts?
hollow river
I fok to spread poisons and to funnel envenoms into boss
wintry mica
does anyone know why sims prioritize gems in certain spots? it keeps telling me its a small dps increase to resocket my gems in different slots
hollow river
O.o
thin nexus
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
timid talon
its just sim quirkiness
sharp zodiac
M pain smith, are you guys throwing up GR and 1-2 pt rupture on the target ball....
Tried to ask this earlier
hollow river
How small
sharp zodiac
Just wanna know what the consensus was
wintry mica
i dont know it just always tells me to put my blood gem in my boots instead of leaving it on my chest
timid talon
sub 10 dps is just variance in the sims anyway
wintry mica
yea still weird that its consistent
hollow river
Yeah I wouldn’t worry about it
red plaza
Just wanna know what the consensus was
infexious has his rank 1 assassin kill posted on youtube
sharp zodiac
infexious has his rank 1 assassin kill posted on youtube
Oh didn’t even think! Thanks!
hollow river
wintry mica
i personally throw a rupture out but dont know if its "optimal"
timid talon
for mythic, whats best is what your guild needs to kill it.
but for parsing it really depends
shut garnet
man does dashing even ever become better than doomblade
timid talon
yes
shut garnet
just simmed r5 frost with like 45% crit and doomblade is still 60 ahead of dashing
lol
timid talon
are you using maim and mangle?
shut garnet
nope, wps
red plaza
link
obtuse robin
wats ur ilvl
timid talon
yeah link your sim because there is no way lol
obtuse robin
double sinfull at first glance
solid venture
Ct sim?
hollow river
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/28#boss=2430&class=Rogue&spec=Assassi...
If only all the best weren’t private logging
obtuse robin
ct
wintry mica
BS/DS is now like a 50 dps increase but im still resisting
shut garnet
weird, p sure i talented out of it
shut garnet
thats what the sim is selecting, ya?
obtuse robin
idk what u put in the sim
shut garnet
pretty sure if u press "resim" you can see exactly what is selected
obtuse robin
we just pointed out like 3 diff things
wintry mica
you also didnt sim with BS/DS which basically always wins with dashing
hollow river
we just pointed out like 3 diff things
They said the sim picked those gems/enchants
shut garnet
some omega tips going on around here 
u didnt catch the part where the sim put that on?
hollow river
double sinfull
Double sinful simming higher for some people
shut garnet
ye no shot
wintry mica
if he selected all of the things that you need to make dashing better than doomblade
shut garnet
t'was the ct messing stuff up
wintry mica
like bs/ds
shut garnet
right but why select something you're not gonna do?
obtuse robin
interesting
wintry mica
well you are asking why dashing is below doombalde lmao
its because you are choosing suboptimal talents for the dashing sim
shut garnet
and also doesnt the difference between bs/ds stay the same with or without doomblade?
obtuse robin
so u fuck up ur sim we give some reasons why and this is ur result
lol
gtfo
ur sim with proper stuff selected
took 30 sec
shut garnet
tyvm god gamer
obtuse robin
if the sim gave u wierd stuff like double sinful
then make sure u did it right b4 coming here
wintry mica
haste gems with frost set is weirder than double sinful
hollow river
then make sure u did it right b4 coming here
Even fuu has gotten double weapon enchants simming higher
obtuse robin
not with this setup he is not
wintry mica
I dont even waste iterations on wep enchants at this point
obtuse robin
man said frost and 45 % crit
hollow river
Not with Meev’a set up
wintry mica
even with 16M theres too much to sim
hollow river
But yes with frost set up
Iirc the “bis” set up from sims, or something close to that variance
Was simming higher with double enchants
obtuse robin
never
hollow river
Ooook
obtuse robin
post or pre nerfd
hollow river
Post
half tartan
So is dashing scoundrel frost becoming meta?
hollow river
So is dashing scoundrel frost becoming meta?
Depends on your profile
wintry mica
hollow river
But yeah with good gear and high crit
half tartan
ty
hollow river
Sim
timid talon
bs/ds feels so awful to play compared to ep/vig
wintry mica
ep/vig is certainly comfy
timid talon
waiting for energy is never worth 100 dps for me /shrug
obtuse robin
xd
wintry mica
yea bs/ds is only like 40-50 dps for me so i stick with ep/vig for comfiness currently
wintry mica
especially when I end up having to be mechanics bitch or else shit wont get done lol
wintry mica
oh for sure
and once i craft r6 dashing itll probably be too big of a difference to not swap
obtuse robin
nah it wil be like 70-80
timid talon
nah, rank 5 frost/rank 6 dashing is still only ~100
obtuse robin
but when dagger its gonna be like 150 +
thin nexus
Guys, where can I find good sim comparisons on Domination Sets? I'm Necro with 30% crit and I'm being pressured into going Frost even though I got UH rank 3. Also, is Dashing scoundrel mandatory for Frost build?
obtuse robin
for you
strange python
venthyr gang
obtuse robin
and u only have 1
wintry mica
there arent really any comprehensive sim comparisons out yet, but you can easily sim the sets on yourself and see if its worth spending embers on frost
also rank 3 only takes like 60 embers?
slow marsh
Whisp is working on the new sims. It's hard because there are so many new combinations so it's not necessarily as simple as before
wintry mica
yea it looks like a lot of work
even just simming my own gear is already getting tedious let alone theoretical bis sets
wintry mica
its so close for me
slow marsh
The gist of it is that the more raid gear you get, the better dashing frost becomes. For both venthyr or necro. The issue is that UH DB is pretty good at lower ilvls and hangs on longer if you're necro.
quaint sequoia
anyone got edge of night hc and can share the simc line for it?
wintry mica
as far as Im aware the theotar tea sim assume you have 25% of each buff
quaint sequoia
cant selecet 246 on wowhead
wintry mica
but its pretty easy to log on pre raid and roll for crit or main stat
i wonder if that would push the value up
wintry mica
its close enough for me that I might do that
especially since dauntless loses value in a decent amount of places
slow marsh
The triple potency with token is super nice too
obtuse robin
prolly not hasste
sharp zodiac
anyone got edge of night hc and can share the simc line for it?
off_hand=,id=186398,enchant_id=6229,bonus_id=7188/6652/1485/6646
wintry mica
have 2 rolls before raid to get crit or i go nadjia tonight lol
half tartan
Is there any major difference in play style for dashing other then maximizing envenom
wintry mica
not really if you were already playing bs/ds
slow marsh
playstyle is the same
pale plank
so BS/DS is only giving me 40dps different, i will stay with vigor for now
slow marsh
That seems sus but sure go for it
wintry mica
thats the same as I have
quaint sequoia
off_hand=,id=186398,enchant_id=6229,bonus_id=7188/6652/1485/6646
thanks
turbid anchor
Heyyy everyone, I’m sure this was answered at some point, but I have a question regarding mythic Soulrender. I’m running CT over PB for better add damage. Is CT used as a maintenance dot on Soulrender or only suggested to use on adds? Is there any data showing the difference in dps on how CT is used?
wintry mica
single target you keep CT up outside of shiv window iirc
ornate lake
Yeah you're right raymuss
hollow river
That’s what makes me hate CT in raid 
wintry mica
yea it doesnt feel good to use on ST thats for sure
wintry mica
i knows its wrong but half the time i just monkeybrain normal opener
hollow river
Answer is usually no but like
Monkey peanut brain
I think u open normally
If it’s ST
And CT after shiv window
But idk
wintry mica
thats usually what I do, but you do miss out on all that vendetta buffed dot damage so it seems weird
you miss like 3-4 ticks of CT probably?
wintry mica
it feels clunky fitting it in pre shiv
quaint sequoia
I have killed 8/10 hc and sylv normal, so on next raid I dont wanna kill hc kt unless we also kill sylv on monday, the fact that 3rd vault slot only req 9 bosses and not 10 is pretty aids
hollow river
Doesn’t shiv window CT rule go out the window on 2 target?
hollow river
I have killed 8/10 hc and sylv normal, so on next raid I dont wanna kill hc kt ...
Just skip 1 heroic boss
wintry mica
yea assuming you clear through heroic KT each week just skip whichever boss you dont need loot from
skipping KT feels bad
wintry mica
I guess it depends on your server
quaint sequoia
yea I guess I'll do that next week
turbid anchor
thanks everyone for the help ❤️
thorny pond
Can pug decently now If you pick the players smartly
wintry mica
but if you dont have the kill like 375k for the vault chances aint bad if you dont think you will kill it normally for a few weeks
but it might not be that cheap on all servers
quaint sequoia
I got 120k xD
hollow river
It is
thorny pond
600k alliance is p standard
wintry mica
for heroic sylv?
thorny pond
Yep
wintry mica
120k is a bargain
quaint sequoia
yea
wintry mica
its like 400k for horde at this point
thorny pond
I think he has 120k
wintry mica
oh lmao
hollow river
Server doesn’t matter when buying carries lol
wintry mica
oh yea
pale plank
do u guys get more down time with BS/DS? as in sit there waitting for energy to pool up
wintry mica
yea forget its only mythic that does that
you shouldnt
its not actually any slower
you have the same energy regen
shadow tusk
You want to pool anyway
hollow river
Technically u want to pool always
wintry mica
yea you probably just werent pooling properly with ep/vig
hollow river
Before envenom
quaint sequoia
Will try to pug sylv before guild raid on monday, and just be loot locked in case we get her down with the guild
timid talon
you have the same energy regen
10% slower but yeah.
pale plank
its raid night for me today, gonna do the first 9 bosses and prog sylv tomorrow
wintry mica
10% slower but yeah.
truuu I always forget vigor is more than just max energy
well shit
just found out you can use theotars tea as nadjia
and it still goes on CD
forgot to swap before clicking it
pale plank
just wonder if i should bs/ds for 92 dps, and ep/vig is very comfy build
pale plank
just found out you can use theotars tea as nadjia
no way? like u drink the tea and swap to nadjia?
quaint sequoia
I hate bs so I go ep/vig everyday of the week
shadow tusk
Id only play bs ds on Guardian
wintry mica
no way? like u drink the tea and swap to nadjia?
no I had nadjia and I forgot to swap to theotar before clicking the tea
so 1hr CD but no buff
pale plank
oohhh
wintry mica
was going to try to roll crit before raid tonight
pale plank
i though u meant that u had the tea buff while using nadjia, that would be broken
wintry mica
haha yea that would be busted
half tartan
Would you take blind side so that you can maximize envenom uptime?
With the DS frost build
slow marsh
just found out you can use theotars tea as nadjia
yeah its a big rip
slow marsh
Would you take blind side so that you can maximize envenom uptime?
BS value increases a lot with dashing frost
You can still go EP/ vig if you really want to tho
pale plank
from my 5 min quick sims, its about the same
BS/DS i cast evenom about 57 times, and EP/Vigor i cast evenom about 58 times.
of course with BS/DS dealing more dps
slow marsh
Using EP / Vig is over 200 dps loss for me currently and I still don't even have frost set yet https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o4prBgE4KVTUn1nH3QX2k4
pale plank
its a 92 dps loss for me, got rank 4 leggo, and rank 3 shards 38% crit
i know i need more crit
wintry mica
surprised its that much of a dps loss and you dont even have like sylv dagger and frost set
so this is really stupid, but has anyone actually simmed master poisoner with dashing
quaint sequoia
I would play bs if u could macro so u dont needed two keybinds
slow marsh
Hey it's less of a loss than playing EP/Vig.....sooo......you know......
quaint sequoia
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pB9x5yxkXXGLMnxCfWU6CA
only 77 diff for me, not worth the extra keybind imo
nocturne geode
is dashing and frost set still the way to go or obedience
slow marsh
dashing frost is best if you have gear but obed is pretty close. a lot closer than DB
quaint sequoia
I think soulcinders should be like tower knowledge so u can farm if u miss some one week
slow marsh
I agree only because i've already missed a mythic night and missing another tomorrow
ooh cinders nvm
i thought you meant embers
quaint sequoia
will be missing 100 cinders for 262 dashing next reset
embers aswell tbh
with stuff like that you should always be able to catch up imo
FOMO is not good in games
wintry mica
dashing frost is best if you have gear but obed is pretty close. a lot closer th...
is there really much of a difference for obe and DB for most people? DB was still simming ahead with frost set r4 for me
slow marsh
With bis gear yeah. obed is something like -100 to dashing where DB is -300+
But it's all just really gear dependant so as long as you're following sim you should be fine
wintry mica
yea I think i probably did that sim without bs/ds for some reason
which probably pushed obe down a bit
slow marsh
for sure
DB is good at lower ilvl, same with EP/Vig and same with UH.
So it makes sense that people's sims still show that as their best option right now
high berry
What is considered lower ilvl?
halcyon zealot
idk i’m 247 equipped and DB still beats obed no matter what i do
dashing n frost do pull ahead tho
harsh lantern
night leaf
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T27_Raid.html very much outdated now isnt it?
restive bone
the rogue sims in that are using unholy
night leaf
yea and db/obedience
would be nice to see an updated ranking with all classes refreshed
fiery mauve
would be nice to see an updated ranking with all classes refreshed
Yeah but the profiles are fairly useless
balmy condor
would be nice to see an updated ranking with all classes refreshed
there's going to be an update to make it frost, but probably not dashing
but like luis said
it's not really important
burnt star
Let be honest. How much fight do we want to play with bs/ds?
night leaf
there's going to be an update to make it frost, but probably not dashing
why not dashing?
halcyon zealot
Let be honest. How much fight do we want to play with bs/ds?
Guardian
night leaf
I like the profiles to see the throughput
balmy condor
why not dashing?
balmy condor
I like the profiles to see the throughput
that's the dumbest thing you can do
the implementation of specs in simulationcraft vary wildly, and the gear isn't consistently BiS either for a lot of them
if you're comparing across multiple classes
you're actually just trolling yourself
vestal zodiac
Yo I need some pog rogue to flame my ass :re my eye/nine log so I can improve, because I'm an idiot and don't see what im looking for
fiery mauve
The answer is use shiv on cd
balmy condor
yeh probably that
potent dagger
Slam that bitch !
balmy condor
okay well first things to notice are that you're 234, and running dauntless
well
dauntless actually fine
but a lot of people are like easily 10 ilvl higher
vestal zodiac
sims highest for me
balmy condor
yeah but there's adds on that fight
vestal zodiac
Oh right
vestal zodiac
Your right, didn't think of that
balmy condor
rank 3 dom gems at this point also don't really help
so you're already starting behind a little
slow marsh
You have your higher ilvl dagger in your OH o.O
balmy condor
just looking at that, I wouldn't think you're playing obedience
balmy condor
like I know you are
but most of those flags are 1:30 cd
which means your obedience lost like 75% of it's value
the shivs are actually kind of okay
slow marsh
no
balmy condor
this is problematic
because you never flag on low combo points
always flag right before a finisher
in your opener here, should be flag into the rupture
slow marsh
That's auto -5 stacks
balmy condor
and again
and again here
the other 3 flags were okay
you did overcap a couple times with mutilate and garrote
that shouldn't happen ever
probably misclicks, but something to be aware of
on the eye specifically, you don't seem to be juicing the adds too hard
let poisons drop on it a couple times
yeh the nine has all the same issues
vestal zodiac
Aight
balmy condor
I think this flag stuff
is really the thing that hurts the most
rotationally you're big chilling though
vestal zodiac
okay, so just work on a few things
radiant dirge
Anyone run frost shards with obedience leggo? Does it work well or is dashing bis
plain thistle
it does, frost is good with or without dashing
potent dagger
For me obe is still simming higher than dashing , you should sim yourself ^^
radiant dirge
It is simming higher but I think only cause obedience is at r6 and my dashing only at r4
potent dagger
Simulate dashing at r6
and compare ^^
for me dashing is a wooping 200 dps loss ^^ but my frost isn't maxed out right now
radiant dirge
Yeah my frost only at r3
ionic vault
is it better to take 30% agility or 12% haste on tarragrue?
brazen zodiac
yo dumb question im kinda new; feel like im simmin myself incorrectly. anyone got any tips/vids on how to properly sim?
woeful meteor
@ionic vault 30 agility is the highest dmg power except for lumbering form
@brazen zodiac icy veins has a guide on how to sim your character, which seemed correct when I quickly read over it. If you want to go very in depth with your sims and use advanced sims the people active in #tc-research should be able to help you out with that.
brazen zodiac
okie dokie thank u.
alpine fossil
Hi, this is my first tier playing assassination rogue and I'm having trouble understanding what I'm doing wrong so I can improve my parses (parsing green and blue mostly). Here are some logs, any help would be appreciated 🙂 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bZvCaTt7zW46qV8x
vast forum
opener is wrong for necro
you wanna use bone spike instead of first muti
at least in your guardian log
you delayed your shiv way too much
you used shiv after your vanish MA window
cursive silo
do opener better cast more shiv
vast forum
this is not the assa opener 😄
cursive silo
and ur set is rank 1
obtuse robin
poor lonely shiv
balmy condor
yo dumb question im kinda new; feel like im simmin myself incorrectly. anyone go...
we also have this
!simguide
prisma monolithBOT
Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights
For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.
brazen zodiac
thx kings and queens
blissful forge
do i use flag on cd with obed lego?
burnt star
does anyone know the specific of how winds of winter (frost gem) explosion works; as in after the 20 sec. what target will be chosen and, based on what
is it any random target in x yard around me. or closest target. or my target if close enough only
cursive silo
last person you crit
burnt star
then i can gimp myself on remnant
if the last crit is on the invun orb
before its vun
ashen creek
Any tips for mythic soulrender prog?
Was planning on playing outlaw for it but RL wants boss dam we have 2 monks wrecking the adds
half quarry
ooof ur dam is gone
cursive silo
dot things kill boss
ripe saddle
uneven hamlet
leave you dots in them, you still get energy regen even if the are "dead"
uneven hamlet
rupture/garrote
charred wraith
if a dot's tick crits on an off target, i assume winds of winter will hit that off target if its in range?
balmy condor
if a dot's tick crits on an off target, i assume winds of winter will hit that o...
yes
charred wraith
thats quite, undesirable
weak isle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
short night
dark token
this is not the assa opener 😄
this is if you're playing venthyr for whole expac then swapped necro and accidentally bonespike
loud trench
if I just fix painsmith and KT man..
Well it’s hard to parce well when you get hit with spiked ball once and stunned from spikes twice tbh
brazen zodiac
yo ur pwnin toadie
ocean jasper
speaking of painsmith are most raids still holding dps on mythic or pushing straight through after the nerfs?
fading vigil
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
timid talon
LMAO ofc the pull we kill painsmith is the one i vendetta an add that spawned in the middle
lunar otter
misty edge
Can anyone try to sim there guy and sim another covenant and see if it works for them, i swear its broken for rogues right now
cursive silo
it works
misty edge
Something is broken for me then lol and idk what, i even lank my simc paste to a buddy and when he sims his hunter it works and then he inputs my string and it doesnt
narrow ravine
good news, dont use it
cursive silo
Something is broken for me then lol and idk what, i even lank my simc paste to a...
like what's the error you're getting lol
lean coral
simming kinda high
misty edge
It just wont show the other covens anywhere in the results
cursive silo
can you just link the sim lmao
cursive silo
You didn't chose a legendary for necro rogue
cursive silo
I assume raidbots just removes any gearset with a missing piece (in yours claok because you can't craft obed as Necro )
misty edge
Yep that solved the "mystery" thanks again man haha
short token
has anyone been in a situation on soulrender where you could NOT pick up the chains? i was just in a situation where i caused a wipe because the chains were literally not clickable - I was coming from every camera angle moving horizontal, vertical it would not become clickable...again, my issue was not clicking the gate, but clicking the actual chain
narrow ravine
ive only seen them not clickable if someone else clicked yours
short token
ok, asking raid lead now to check that for me ty
narrow ravine
the chains do attach to the person that clicked them, but its faint hard to see
cursive silo
did you have the little interact mouse (the gears) or were they not interactable at all
short token
no, i was panicking like crazy trying to find the gears...nothing
narrow ravine
once clicked they cant drop them, but if its already 'picked up' no one else can interact with that node anymore
so either one of the 3 people clicked the one you meant to take and one of the other 3 would have the interact option
worn panther
Mostly, is the tank or someone that accidentally clicked them and didn't notice
narrow ravine
or someone clicked it and didnt realize while mouse looking or something and is just standing around holding the chain
worn panther
We had a dh that mass clicked the boss every second because target swap
we wiped maybe 3-4 times because of that
narrow ravine
I think it gives you a debuff once you click it, so you cant do it again for 5min
short token
right
narrow ravine
could check the raid logs for who got the last 3 debuffs
short token
so it looks like nobody else clicked it...i don't know, i'm at a loss
narrow ravine
did you keep trying to click the same one or did you try the other two?
ashen fulcrum
are there any sanctum fights where you shouldn't be using dashing scoundrel with frost?
worn panther
no one else clicked them huh.. that's weird then
narrow ravine
means someone took the middle one before you could
and you had to take theirs
if you cant click yours try each of the others until all 3 are used
you got plenty of time
worn panther
are there any sanctum fights where you shouldn't be using dashing scoundrel with...
not really, Scoundrel is the most flexible leggo Sin could have, and unless you're staying down in KT there's not a single add moment in Sanctum
short token
yeah, i just didn't hear a call out or anything, and i didn't wanna take someone's and have them start panickin g
worn panther
Maybe Fatescriber? even then, it's mostly a ST fight, so it's okay to stay full scoundrel
wanton terrace
is frost the play right now for set bonus over unholy?
spice spire
Yes you’ll get to a point in hearing where it’ll be better. It pairs well with dashing scoundrel as well
ashen fulcrum
not really, Scoundrel is the most flexible leggo Sin could have, and unless you'...
Thank you
velvet nacelle
dang valor upgrade chest pieces is 'spensive
just blew all my valor without paying attention
oops
if i get my tarragrue bracers this week that'll put me at 972 crit
seems more likely that we'll get another m tarra kill before we get another h fatescribe
i think our one kill on fatescribe was luck
fatescribe helm would be ideal but not counting on a kill this week
cursive silo
why upgrade chest with valor 🤔
cursive silo
you're gonna change it for a domination anyway
velvet nacelle
yeah, but not this week
normal sylv didn't drop it and we're not getting aotc this week
figured i'd just level up a mythic chest to at least 239 until i got the sylvanas chest but didn't realize how expensive it was, now i am sliightly regretting it heh
bleak sky
normal sylv didn't drop it and we're not getting aotc this week
you don't >need< it to be sylv's chest
just get a chest so you can socket stuff
velvet nacelle
i have the other chest, i just wanted more crit for the frost set
just to play around with
i'm only at like 34% crit, missing crit in helm, chest and wrists
bleak sky
so don't play the other stuff if it doesn't sim better
velvet nacelle
819 total rating
bleak sky
you'll get there when you get there
the only things worth upgrading with valor are like
weapons/trinkets/rings
not sure if neck is worth
armor pieces for sure aren't
cursive silo
neck and rings yea
velvet nacelle
oh i know, i was just looking for more winds meme damage
cursive silo
but there's a neck and 1 ring in raid
bleak sky
sylvs ring is 
velvet nacelle
yeah i have the heroic neck so i likely won't be upgrading any mythic necks
mythic dungeon necks*
got a 252 decanter from my first gv of the tier (also the last useful item i pulled out of the gv)
not the ideal trinket, but i figured i had a ton of valor and didn't realize i was droppinig 475 per upgrade in and just spam clicked
figured i had some valor to "play" with
it's not the end of the world though since it's a farmable resource
cursive silo
well still capped
velvet nacelle
and i have friends with alts that are always running keys, i'll just run em on mains
er.. run em on my main
i've had nothing to spend valor on anyways to this point
though if i do get a weapon, i know i'll regret it, but i also don't believe in my luck to get something useful
i had one gv that was 4/4 backs
i actually didn't realize valor was time gated
echo cargo
Can anyone explain how the frost set actually works? Does it store up crit damage and release it at intervals, or more crits = more procs?
placid kraken
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
obtuse robin
Can anyone explain how the frost set actually works? Does it store up crit damag...
it collects crit dmg then releases it as st
strange python
xDDDDD benched for low ball damage as sin. Guild hunt time begins
echo cargo
xDDDDD benched for low ball damage as sin. Guild hunt time begins
low or dead last? kek
strange python
Low. Not like sin can realistically damage ball anyways though
shy dust
That’s when the whole swap specs is recommended
strange python
I asked if I should swap sub or outlaw and was told no :)
velvet nacelle
@strange python low... ball damage? on painsmith?
i love when i beat people on adds like on fatescribe or on stuff like balls
i feel like getting beat by an assassination rogue should mean bench time
add that stay up for a while? sure
strange python
<@456226577798135808> low... ball damage? on painsmith?
Yes
velvet nacelle
but like on soulreaver i can usually only get 2 fok off while those adds are up
strange python
With two boomies, two destros, two hunters.
velvet nacelle
if i'm beating people with 2 fok on those adds, those people need to re-evaluate
well clearly the hunters can't break those balls, they have to tunnel the boss
strange python
Raid leader just doesn't listen to me saying I can't do ball damage if they die too fast. It's fine I'll just throw out apps
main forge
if the balls are dying fast.... then why is ball damage an issue?
strange python
Who knows
velvet nacelle
yeah
i'm confused about the problem
your RL is solving problems that don't seem to exist
strange python
Not sure. Our resto shaman died 43 times in 36 pulls to spikes alone.
But she's still in tonight.
slow marsh
Feels
main forge
well how's your rogue healing set?
strange python
XD
velvet nacelle
dying to spikes isn't a problem! that's just the fight! everyone knows that dodgeable spikes are undodgeable!
man if i get hit by spikes even once i get mad
even when it's obviously latency
haven't done it on mythic yet
so maybe it's not as realistic to expect to dodge them all in mythic
viscid saffron
What’s the best m+ spec currently?
velvet nacelle
but there's like no reason to get hit by them in norms/heroic
slow marsh
Sub
main forge
I just hate when I go to avoid the spikes with Shadowstep and forgot it is on cooldown
balmy condor
What’s the best m+ spec currently?
still outlaw, like usual
velvet nacelle
i don't use shadowstep to dodge em, teleporty stuff seems to exaggerate the lag
viscid saffron
Sigh. Spending so much time gearing up my sin rogue that my outlaw set will be trash.
slow marsh
They pretty much use the same stats
main forge
play sin then.
slow marsh
So
main forge
Sub is more fun for M+ though imo
slow marsh
Then play sub
strange python
but there's like no reason to get hit by them in norms/heroic
They're way faster in mythic and a missed roar or windrush can fuck some classes. But still
main forge
I mean all rogue specs are viable for M+
strange python
Mid tier guild apps never fun. Time to take advantage of 93 average
faint vale
so maybe it's not as realistic to expect to dodge them all in mythic
They oneshot on mythic so it is recommended to dodge
velvet nacelle
haha
i mean it's always recommended to dodge mechanics that are... dodgeable
dunno why it's such a struggle for my group
viscid saffron
I’m about to make a leggo tomorrow and didn’t know which one. I plan on playing sin in raid and I switched to venthyr to make obedience but almost every rogue I see has on doom blade or dashing
velvet nacelle
if you multispec, obedience is probably the way to go
doomblade and dashing are only good for assassination
the sims were pretty close on all 3 for me
dim ledge
if anyone has the time and patience could they help explain the dps difference in my logs
having trouble seeing how envenom is doing so much more for this other rogue
velvet nacelle
low envenom damage is usually not taking advantage of shiv/vendetta/flag windows and spamming them outside of those windows
envenom is your lowest priority finisher unless you're in one (or more) of those windows
i can look at your logs in a little bit, but that's just general advice
dim ledge
thanks I appreciate it, im looking it over again with what you said
this log is more specifically the dps difference on boss
obtuse robin
well i found ur problem
well 1 atleast
he is crit frost
just look at his envenom crit rate vs urs
ur unholy haste
pale plank
Is blindside kinda useless for sylv?
EP/VIG is like a 100dps loss but I guess I got no choice since sylva doesn’t have an execute phase?
soft shale
you go ep vigor anyway because p2 is not trivial
strange python
Healer has died 17 times in 13 pulls to spikes.
Bench rogue for ball damage.
OKAY
kind talon
oak sky
😦
velvet nacelle
man, people are so impatient now in keys
had a warlock leave now because the tank accidentally walked past one of the mini bosses
OH NO, WE LOST 10 SECONDS
strange python
M+ brings out the worst kind of folks
timid talon
My trinket luck this patch is insane, first kill of soul render i got decanter and first mythic guardian I got fusion amp
timid talon
trust if my guild can do it, so can yours
velvet nacelle
i'd link you logs to prove you wrong
but that feels a little too mean to my guild
let's just say that we have people doing under 6k on tarragrue
timid talon
velvet nacelle
you know, where there's at least 4ish anima powers that do at least 1k on their own
we have some people who do a TON of damage if they get zero mechanics in a fight
but if they get hit with like one bomb where they have to run it out, they drop under the tanks and never recover
it's bizarre
i mean i know heroic parses mean jack and shit, but meanwhile i got my highest guardian parse on a fight where i got all but like 3 bombs
coincidentally was also the week i finished my first set, but that's neither here nor there 🙂
slim jay
heroic parses are fine
velvet nacelle
yeah but you're not really competing with the masses in heroic or normal
you're competing with padders and casual guilds
so the top 1-10% might be out depending on your gear, but from there it's basically a gimme: just stay alive
slim jay
you think there arent padders in mythic?
velvet nacelle
oh absolutely there are
sterile chasm
Why do i Sim better with doomblade than DS when i hit 40% crit :/
velvet nacelle
actually i'm going to recant and say that the parses only matter for the difficulty/skill of the guild... if you're a heroic guild then you're mainly competing with other heroic guilds there
slim jay
because the legos are very close
velvet nacelle
but if you're in a mythic guild, then you should be out performing most of the heroic guilds
doomblade, obedience and dashing are all so close it's within the margin of error as far as i'm concerned
sterile chasm
Or maybe bcs I am frost r4
sterile chasm
Should assa use guardian trink on every CD or match with Vendetta?
timid talon
nah rip it on cd
velvet nacelle
i'm mad i upgraded unholy to r3
timid talon
unless you wont lose a usage
velvet nacelle
lose a usage*
timid talon
yeah that
velvet nacelle
how can i get 28 embers tonight
hmm
the real answer is i probably shouldn't even think about it
but tomorrow is raid night and i wanna be r4 frost
pouts
sterile chasm
@velvet nacelle welcome in team
I upgrade my unholy set to r 3 and one gem to r4 xd
hearty dock
how much difference is between frost/blood/unholy for the assa rogue?
brazen zodiac
"but that feels a little too mean to my guild
[2:58 AM]
let's just say that we have people doing under 6k on tarragrue"
idk who u are but u made me laugh and i appreciate tht
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
idle star
Why do i Sim better with doomblade than DS when i hit 40% crit :/
Shouldnt dashing be better if you have lower haste due to the energy gen?
sterile chasm
I dont know ask my Sim 😅
marble hemlock
Doom is better for me too, dw
solid venture
doomblade just seems to be better usually for necro
buoyant kraken
Doom necro is better for me atm than dashing venthyr aswell.
With rank 5 frost that is
solid venture
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/44nQHsrgYx7hzp32up9USw yea it's only a 9 dps difference for me with r5 frost between doomblade and dashing 
drifting cloud
arctic walrus
timid talon
sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't. That's just the way she goes
twin stag
is rank 3 frost still decent?
sterile chasm
R3 doing me 10%
pine grove
It's slightly above R4 Unholy for me, but my crit is only around 36% or so.
idle star
My rank 3 assass frost sims 300 dps behind my rank 4 unholy sub. Assass looking good next week
twin stag
is rank 5 the highest rank?
pine grove
Yes.
twin stag
ok cool
I need to remake my leggo for doomblade or try the new dashing one, as a necro with frost what do you guys reckon?
idle star
Doomblade
As necro
You gain an extra 5% envenom dmg just by being necro using doomblade
raven torrent
depends.. dashing can sim higher but minimal difference
twin stag
oh true
tribal marlin
Should assa use guardian trink on every CD or match with Vendetta?
Vendetta doesn't increase trinket damage. If anything, you could try to sync it with the high stack count of Flag, since haste will very slighltly increase its damage
silver fog
I find it amusing that people everywhere are fighting over 50sim dps between sets and are completely ignoring defensive part of frost/blood set if it sims a bit lower than unholy. Its a perma fleshcraft, that's not something you dismiss :o
pine grove
Oh yeah, all those shields are a huge draw for me. My healers will love me during M prog.
cold rampart
if i did a full heroic run should i do normal aswell for ember?
pine grove
No.
If you do HC, you get all the embers you would have got from the lower difficulties. You would still get embers from M, though.
cold rampart
thx
twin stag
yeah unholy can feel bad sometimes, like it can proc on the intermission phase of painsmith etc
ember citrus
Been thinking about switching over to Necrolord instead of staying Venthyr any thoughts?
ornate lake
Why?
raven torrent
honestly the difference isnt too big so that it shouldnt matter.. i like sbs more than flag which is why i stayed necro
ember citrus
I've just been seeing a lot of Necro rogues running around and just wanted to know if there was a big difference
raven torrent
- i kinda like necro aesthetics more appealing to me
ember citrus
Yeah I personally like Venth just a bit more
raven torrent
guess thats your answer then 
royal lantern
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/44nQHsrgYx7hzp32up9USw yea it's only a ...
9?
its 4 for me
nvmd checked again
its 2
rocky pecan
You have no crit or r3 frost or something special?
rocky pecan
Outch
royal lantern
I've just been seeing a lot of Necro rogues running around and just wanted to kn...
there is a high chance that those necro rogues are m+ only players
thin gate
guys i got 1 question.
For example u got 4 trash mobs as assa and u go for 4 x garrote 4 x rupture.
do u perma spam CT or just envenom 1 by 1 if u got double sylvana daggers
royal lantern
cus its still extremly good for m+
royal lantern
guys i got 1 question.
For example u got 4 trash mobs as assa and u go for 4 x g...
keep ct up
you dont spam it
the dot is strong about ct, not the cast dmg
if you really have nothing else to rupture, yes, envenom
thin gate
ikik but i meant bcs of sylvana double dagger
does it affect all 4 mobs with the effect
royal lantern
good question
imagine having that weapon
@limber lion help pls
can syl dagger proc in aoe on ct
thin gate
if i go in a cleave scenario my Threat plates shows debuff on all enemies
fallow glacier
I believe it only hits one enemy at a time, that’s how it works with black powder on sub
rocky pecan
Sim it?
steel ridge
i got my frost bonus yesterday, now my outlaw sims higher in ST than assa
(even without ghostly strike)
terse talon
i got my frost bonus yesterday, now my outlaw sims higher in ST than assa
sucks 😦
olive peak
well damn, outlaw sims 300 higher than sin for me atm
subtle tundra
Not really
steel ridge
well its easier to play effectively
copper hazel
sub double step
tacit wedge
Grappling kekw
It's less about mobility and how it work
Shadowstep so you can dodge EotJ beam
Etc
real bay
beam cloak is a waste tbh lul
subtle tundra
you dont really decide what spec is better by a mechanic from 2nd boss
steel ridge
no, you just play whatever you want
fiery mauve
year of the spear
tacit wedge
you dont really decide what spec is better by a mechanic from 2nd boss
That was just an example
blissful forge
beam cloak is a waste tbh lul
u can shadowstep every beam btw
so u dont loose uptime at all
just w8 till the beam is nearly at the chains and then u SS
real bay
yes
steel ridge
where do you step to? the boss?
quick cypress
what % crit do you want to aim for with the frost bonus?
calm heron
misty holly
At what point do we hit secondary diminishing returns?
steel ridge
the defensive value of the frost set is insane
winged basin
Well it’s hard to parce well when you get hit with spiked ball once and stunned ...
Yeah, happens, haven’t killed the fight as sin in awhile, last time I did Painsmith I yolo tried Sub for the first time since Legion
scenic meteor
ive been away for a bit, if im running obedience should i be going for frost or unholy
winged basin
I know you don’t wanna hear this but I’d honestly say sim it.
winged basin
Frost simmed better with DB for me for a hot second til my stats moved a little bit
!sim
Maybe that’s not the command
There is a command to link a article tutorial 
scenic meteor
haha ill have a look at tutorial
winged basin
It’s relatively simple, I’m at work or I’d help you more :((
scenic meteor
its fine dont worry 🙂
winged basin
scenic meteor
also i do way more damage playing sin m+ than outlaw and i feel like that shouldnt be right lol
but idc sin is way more fun
slim jay
steel ridge
for m+ you just socket all 3 dps shards and forget about set bonus right?
steel ridge
so the envenom buff for dashing scoundrel is the "self-buff"
so it should work in AoE? right
slim jay
all poison targets will crit yeah
steel ridge
so whats the take on subterfuge vs. master assassin
big critty fok from stealth into crimson tempest or 3 garrotes?
slim jay
for m+ or?
steel ridge
yeah m+
slim jay
sub garrotes
steel ridge
grew to like MA for raiding
slim jay
idk for sure but as we get more crit in later patches wont we eventually drop MA?
steel ridge
i wouldnt think so
since its only 50%
so the closer you get to 50% base crit, the better and more consistent it gets
tribal marlin
At what point do we hit secondary diminishing returns?
30% or 30 mastery pts from rating.
Crit = 1050
Mastery = 1050
Haste = 990
Versa = 1200
If you run a stat weight with 2 different profile, one above and one below you should notice the cap
It's 30% from the rating itself. Means as rogue you should be at 40% because we have 10% baseline
heady drum
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fa6UCGdP9tdxazbf58jDig
am i a fucking dumbass for not running DS+BS? I really hate it cause it feels so slow :(
pseudo hamlet
BS slow? It's actually faster because of the bonus CP and sudden ability usage. 😛
thorny pond
opener is slow that's really it
steel bane
interesting that EP/Vigor actually sims higher for me by like 40 DPS
thorny pond
link
steel bane
I don't have it. I did it yesterday before raid
thorny pond
then how am I gonna believe you
thorny pond
people come in here and do it all the time
steel bane
well shame on them
remote gate
alpine latch
people come in here and do it all the time
Bro just because I got a 14k sim doesn't mean you have to be salty... wtf
thorny pond
ep + vigor shows a 117 increase in dps... lol for me
NF with unbalance bis stats will do that
uneven summit
if your haste is low, EP/Vig will sim higher on the same setup as BS/DS 🙂
alpine latch
ep + vigor shows a 117 increase in dps... lol for me
EP/Vigor simmed higher for me for a while too. It's more about stat weights than anything else. As I started getting some more gear, EP/Vigor was no longer the play.
spice spire
EP/Vigor users 
gusty mirage
EP/Vigor users <:rooSuffer1:718970432484540558>
can’t hear you over the sound my chalice
gusty mirage
alpine latch
The renown grind isn't bad honestly
spice spire
I just don't want to regrind
If you’re running sub too, I can’t recommend
alpine latch
I just run Sin in keys and smash
subtle tundra
otp sin in keys aswell 🙂
next dune
You be you. But there's a reason why EP/Vig is all over the top of logs on every single boss fight. You can trust your sim and what a robot tells you. Or you can trust actual boss fights
gusty mirage
Oh boy
subtle tundra
not this again..
gloomy rose
is this a copypasta
subtle tundra
bs/ds is better for pure ST, raidbots is right
spice spire
I’m yoinking that as a copy pasta
gusty mirage
I’m yoinking that as a copy pasta
spice spire
I run EP/Vig, but not because it’s optimal. But I cba to swap for +50 DPS
proper eagle
im new to my rogue again and wanting to main assassin in m+ mainly , whats the best cove and legendary to go with?
gusty mirage
im new to my rogue again and wanting to main assassin in m+ mainly , whats the b...
For m+ you’d go necro and run zoldyk
spice spire
im new to my rogue again and wanting to main assassin in m+ mainly , whats the b...
In m+ best covenants are venthyr and Necrolord, if you go venthyr you run obedience, if you go Necrolord it’s Zoldyck’s. Both are solid choices for it
subtle tundra
i just love venthyr m+ with obedience cause i finally have an AOE cd
i'd hate to swap
next dune
That and its better for Tyranical
gusty mirage
In m+ best covenants are venthyr and Necrolord, if you go venthyr you run obedie...
When are we doing keys? Better yet when are you accepting my bnet friend request? 
spice spire
Who needs CD when you can just blast
zinc frost
i just love venthyr m+ with obedience cause i finally have an AOE cd
Have you tasted the goodness of bone spikes?
thorny pond
I’ve reverted back to a OTP sin rogue outside of keys
OTP Sin!
gusty mirage
Man left me on read 
subtle tundra
Have you tasted the goodness of bone spikes?
yes, not worth it.
spice spire
When are we doing keys? Better yet when are you accepting my bnet friend request...
Whenever I’m not a shitter and when I get home tonight, I was already in bed when you added me last night 😛
gusty mirage
I can finally shed the shame of my only 99 in SL being an outlaw parse
zinc frost
yes, not worth it.
hollow river
You be you. But there's a reason why EP/Vig is all over the top of logs on every single boss fight. You can trust your sim and what a robot tells you. Or you can trust actual boss fights
gusty mirage
Add another one to the archive boys
thorny pond
You ok ?
alpine latch
I mean ... Cev literally said he runs EP/Vigor on a lot of fights. (You can search for it if you don't believe me)
gusty mirage
We’ve hit peak meme for SL already. Shortest time for something to become copy pasta
alpine latch
And that was likea week ago
gusty mirage
Cev runs ep/vigor because he prefers it not because “sim not equal real life”
thorny pond
It's also context. Everyone preaches sims and green men without taking into context your group comp, needs, strengths weaknesses and preferences
proper eagle
that was a very big mix between necro and venth 😛 whats the advantage/disadvantages of them?
thorny pond
few %
gusty mirage
It just goes back to what Cev’s been saying for weeks. Play what you like, you can play well with it
alpine latch
that was a very big mix between necro and venth 😛 whats the advantage/disadvant...
Necro is lower but pairs with Outlaw (I believe Necro is better in m+ for Sin but don't quote me on that) and Venthyr pairs better with Sub and is better for ST
thorny pond
The only cleave I want in my raid is cleavage
gusty mirage
Venthyr also BIS for getting those pesky korthia nests
hollow river
But honestly for intermission fights I think Venthyr is bis
gusty mirage
The only cleave I want in my raid is cleavage
hollow river
Like sylvanas
thorny pond
Like sylvanas
yea cleavage like Momma
next dune
Blindside doesn't justify using another hotkey. Is what it is. Yeah I really liked it in CN, and still like Blindside overall for the feels, but in the end, it's not worth it when the passive of EP is just as good and usually better
hollow river
Flag on sylvanas provides better burst for the long ass fight with hella downtime
So better parses
Imo
gusty mirage
I miss the Necrolord shield more than SBS
Honestly man, same. Biggest sadge moment was no more FC when a pull goes to shit
spice spire
Venthyr perks:
Very strong legendary with a cooldown that helps with having an aoe cooldown.
Venthyr cons:
Damage is centered around cooldowns, with a flat line outside of that. Also door of shadows is wack
Necrolord:
Shield is good, and you have a cheap builder that also provides hella cleave. Also more dopamine with sbs
Cons:
Very flat damage across aoe/ST
And no CDs in aoe unfortunately
Pretty watered down list but generally the big diff
@proper eagle
alpine latch
Shield is OP in Torghast too. You can 1-shot floor bosses
thorny pond
Don’t worry I’ll teleport 30 yards in 1.5s cast that’ll help
Soulrender dance is great with is, also timing it just right with veil to continue whacking Sylvy
subtle tundra
who cares about torghast tho
subtle tundra
2 mins more each week oke
hollow river
Don’t worry I’ll teleport 30 yards in 1.5s cast that’ll help
Needs to be instant cast ):
gusty mirage
Soulrender dance is great with is, also timing it just right with veil to contin...
I’ve gotten so good at reading the pools from hellscream that I don’t think I used door once tbh
gusty mirage
Needs to be instant cast ):
RiP beta door dash
gusty mirage
I need to stand and pad
spice spire
Blindside doesn't justify using another hotkey. Is what it is. Yeah I really lik...
We really don’t have a lot of keybinds, that’s not the argument I’d use. But yeah id you just prefer EP/Vig it’s not inting but I also wouldn’t say it’s definitively better 
gusty mirage
You sayin I cost myself another 99 by reading mechanics? 
hollow river
Yeah I love door of shadows for veil
thorny pond
We have a ton of aoe and cleave but aside from me and the priests, not a lot of ST for our comp
hollow river
Fucking bis
thorny pond
no, we don't do bis lists here
proper eagle
@spice spire you mention venthia having an aoe cooldown? whats that?
spice spire
Dance? Oh you mean that healer mechanic on soulrender
hollow river
Um
gusty mirage
Dance? Oh you mean that healer mechanic on soulrender <:kekw:610125925413289985>
Yeah? How’d raid go Wednesday night?
hollow river
no, we don't do bis lists here
I think you misunderstand
spice spire
<@!226508540746006528> you mention venthia having an aoe cooldown? whats that?
With obedience, popping flag gives you a decent haste+vers buffs which is very good for obedience
thorny pond
I think you misunderstand
Have you never been trolled, good sir?
strange python
Frost or uh? Or just sim?
proper eagle
@spice spire o i see nice
hollow river
Have you never been trolled, good sir?
Never