assassination

[balmy condor]

Faq's are fantastic

[vital nexus]

Crit always good

always

[ionic ermine]

are whoops ill check it out, ty!

[echo cargo]

but also sim yourself

😄

[balmy condor]

simming legendary stats

[arctic walrus]

even if people dont read them at least they're easy to screenshot

[balmy condor]

facts

[quartz iris]

So are we now frost shards?

[arctic walrus]

yuh

[languid kestrel]

Necro vs venthyr? and switch outlaw?

[fading adder]

According to logs most rogues in top parses are still UH/DB. Is that just cause they committed to UH/DB before the changes to frost or cause it’s better

[obtuse robin]

commited b4 buffs

but frost was better b4 the buffs just no one knew

until whispyr opned his brain

[fading adder]

I managed to get dashing to sim higher now that I have 39% crit. Both my UH and Frost set are level 3

Just didn’t know if there was some tech I didn’t know about in raid or something

[timid talon]

Frost scales really well, so as you get more gear it'll climb a lot

[balmy condor]

to be fair, it simmed better for some fairly well geared profiles, but it was also bugged beyond belief so it probably wasn't the move before buffs/bugfixes

oversimming pretty hard from my understanding

that's all fixed now though

[obtuse robin]

[thorny pond]

Frost logs are up bois

I’m a healer now

Theo + Frost is giga

[dark token]

does dashing scoundrel passive apply extra energy gain even with just poisons just spread from fok/crimson tempest and no additional venemous wounds

[thorny pond]

Any poison tick crit

[balmy condor]

^

[thorny pond]

Horny Garrosh is my bitch with dash

[obtuse robin]

theo + frost

[dark token]

tick crit? what about instant crits from overring deadly poison

[obtuse robin]

[balmy condor]

instants count

[thorny pond]

And FoK with high crit actually feels decent

I like getting multiple Cps from it

[thorny pond]

-40dps sim loss for 2.2k+ hps is a decent trade off

[arctic walrus]

yo whisp

[balmy condor]

yessir

[arctic walrus]

dashing on aoe change bleed counts

thoughts and concerns?

[obtuse robin]

oh for progg hundo p

[balmy condor]

probably 1 less

[arctic walrus]

but what if i crit a lot

[balmy condor]

but doesn't change too much

[thorny pond]

Wasn’t the criteria just as long as envenom buff stays maintained ?

[fathom flax]

Would it be reasonable to say that as we go on and our gear gets better etc it would be a good target to aim for a 262 zold leg and a 262 dashing cape with rank 5 frost set

So as to not waste any gold etc

[balmy condor]

depends what criteria we're talking about

[thorny pond]

For spreading bleeds

[balmy condor]

we still dot everything that lives long enough

the time remaining

is the part that changes

if you aren't saturated, the "lives long enough" becomes longer

[thorny pond]

Right, but didn’t envenom buff maintain shoot up the prio list?

[balmy condor]

no

[thorny pond]

This is why you can’t take breaks because jabronis be spreading lies

[fathom flax]

Welcome back to our lord and saviour @balmy condor

Now make us gooderer

[balmy condor]

aight let me pull up numbers real quick

and I'll do a big novel

brb

[obtuse robin]

wait theo is only -17 for me

[thorny pond]

It’s different for everyone you nutcracker

[obtuse robin]

actually should be a dps gain if able to roll crit

[thorny pond]

Yea can be

I prefer the steady crit vs playing around fatal

[obtuse robin]

yea its gonna be the go for prog

thanks

[thorny pond]

Have a token

[thorny pond]

🪙

[obtuse robin]

[thorny pond]

My healers never had to touch Me tonight. Like could stand in 3x chain break unmitigated type hps

[obtuse robin]

yea had a healer 2 days ago pm me how im ghealing so much

with only frost

[thorny pond]

Yep, I got all our mages running Theo now too

Gonna full send a 2 healer comp here soon

[obtuse robin]

yo whats the string to sim the theo buffs

[fathom flax]

How does dashing stack up on m+, if I can avoid paying for a 2x r6 lego pieces I’ll be happy

And not poor

[rocky sluice]

hey guys.. do you swap your shards based on the raid boss fight?

frost/unholy

[fathom flax]

So you’re running triple dps theo with dashing and frost set

The new meta?

And the Nadija for sub/ m+

[magic gale]

Is sub currently outperforming assa?

[balmy condor]

interesting

nitro message lengths seem to not work

have to break this novel into 2 parts

hold on

[abstract venture]

Whispyr

bro leave discord

i am tempted to come and kiss you

[balmy condor]

u boutta drown under this book tho luv u

So, bleeding in aoe with dashing and other legendaries. Let's start with how the sim decides to bleed vs to envenom, since that's important. The APL (the list of commands the sim takes), is broken down into many smaller lists. One of those lists is called direct, and one is called dot. There is then the default list, which calls all the lists. So we go to the default list, which basically says this:

cd list
snd if it ain't up (this is the opener slice)
envenom to extend snd (this is for forcing envenoms in aoe to maintain slice)
dot list
direct list
...bunch of other trash we don't care for```
 in something like dungeonslice aoe pulls, most of the envenoms actually come from that envenom line in the default list to maintain the snd, otherwise it's just dotting. You can see this for yourself by simming something like 5 target 5 minute. The only envenoms being cast there are to extend snd, and the envenoms at the end of the 5 minutes when re-dotting isn't worth it. It's that second part that we care about when it comes to "do I dot". The dot list (gar/rup/CT in this one) being above the direct list (the envenom to dump cp in this one), causes envenom to take a pretty much nonexistent place in the priority in aoe. Let's look at the dot list.

The things of intrigue here are the rupture and CT lines. There's 2 lines for each, but they basically have the same logic. The first priority line would be CT, seen here: crimson_tempest,target_if=min:remains,if=spell_targets>=2&effective_combo_points>=4&energy.regen_combined>20&(!cooldown.vendetta.ready|dot.rupture.ticking)&remains<2+3*(spell_targets>=4)
Breaking it down, it tries to use CT when it has enough energy regen (20, so basically passive regen + about 2 bleeds), and if the dot has <2+3*(4+targets), meaning less than 2 if you're on 2-3 targets, or less than 5 if you're in 4+. Great. Let's look at rupture next.

The rupture line cycling targets is this one

rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=!variable.skip_cycle_rupture&!variable.skip_rupture&target!=self.target&effective_combo_points>=4&refreshable&(pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&target.time_to_die-remains>(4+(runeforge.dashing_scoundrel*5)+(runeforge.doomblade*5)+(variable.regen_saturated*6))

There's a lot of nonsense at the start we don't care about, it's the part at the end that's important. Target time to die (ttd) remains, being the estimate for how long that mobs going to be alive (very useful for dslice). It starts at a baseline of >4, which means you would rupture if something has more than 4 seconds left on it. But then we get into the other conditions. You would add 5 seconds to that if you're using dashing scoundrel, regardless of everything, bringing it to a default with dashing of 9. Doomblade happens to bring that to 9 as well if you're using that. Then add another 6 if you're "saturated". There's a fancy variable that calculates your energy regen from bleeds + regen, and the magic number is about 35 energy per second. usually that ends up usually being about 4-5 bleeds.

Only if those two conditions are NOT met, will you go into the direct action list and fire off an envenom. Essentially what that means is in aoe is the following in order to justify a dump into an envenom:
0. You would envenom to extend slice and dice first and foremost, we don't count that.

1. crimson tempest needs to have more than 5 seconds left
2. rupture needs to be on all targets that need longer than 4+5+6 (15) seconds to die
3. The ruptures from 2 also aren't allowed to be in pandemic range, or a refresh would happen.

If those 3 things are true, you would envenom. With a high enough crit chance, you could finish every 3rd gcd. On 5 targets, that's CT + 5 ruptures, which would take you 21 gcds to get those going (refreshing CT). So it gets pretty tight trying to fit envenoms. Gotta get lucky crits pretty much

[obtuse robin]

[abstract venture]

or u can just shuriken storm with Sub XD

[obtuse robin]

alright ur done writing that could u give me the code to sim party favor diff buffs lol

[balmy condor]

wdym

like individually?

[obtuse robin]

yea

it was pinned last week cant find it

[balmy condor]

profileset."primary"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=primary"
profileset."versatility"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=versatility"
profileset."crit"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=crit"
profileset."haste"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=haste"

[obtuse robin]

there u go ty

[balmy condor]

np

[abstract venture]

oooh, so it actually better to just rupture everything on fortified regardless of leggo

and capping energy

interesting

@balmy condor is it possible to sim a specific fight in SOD? for example dormazain? i dont think its hectic add cleave might be wrong tho

[balmy condor]

simming specific fights directly isn't possible because they're way more complicated than what the sims are able to handle

[abstract venture]

ahh

[balmy condor]

there's no support for holding cooldowns depending on the type and amount of adds for example

there's also no support for holding cooldowns based on incoming movement

so usually we stay away from trying to sim individual fights

[arctic walrus]

i'm really happy for you or i'm sorry that happened

[balmy condor]

kind of an unwritten rule

[balmy condor]

tldr is rupture everything, if you're capped on energy, don't rupture things that will die in 15 seconds

[abstract venture]

lol

@arctic walrus how r u doing with SOD assa so far?

[balmy condor]

@thorny pond lemme know if you got questions bout that me go back to minecraft

[fathom flax]

Thanks @balmy condor you’ve helped a lot

Again

I can’t wait til tomorrow’s lesson

[balmy condor]

[abstract venture]

Daddy whispyr

[fathom flax]

“How to use feint and why you shouldn’t waste energy on it”

Healer problem

Is anyone going kyrian outlaw with frost set

I really can’t see myself changing everything again

1 patch 4 covenants thanks blizz

[balmy condor]

I know ronkles plays that

[fathom flax]

Outlaw is fine and fun I just really don’t like rtb rng

[arctic walrus]

it aight

[abstract venture]

Bro my hand getts busted when i play outlaw .. its not for me

[fathom flax]

And if you play ghostly strike with necro + mfd

That’s a lot of buttons to hit

And a lot of resets haha

[abstract venture]

Got some wipe logs and want to review/analyze to see where i can improve Cd and whatnot? if you are intrested i would appreciate the help with it

Mythic Dormazain

[arctic walrus]

cant rn i'm sure someone is available to help u

[safe barn]

bros

questions about m+ with sin rogues

1- do u use vendetta on cd or with some kind of strat?

the other one i forgot

oh i rememberedd

is it better to use the stats anima than axe?

our choices are different from outlaw i assume

[ornate lake]

I use vendetta on cd. Unless it comes off cd the pack before a boss. Than I save it for boss.

Axe CAN be used on tyrannical, that's the only place where it might be worth. But the stats are better in general and is what is mentioned in guides like wowhead too.

[balmy condor]

Axe kinda sucks, but can be okay on tyrannical if you got a lot of long fights

[balmy condor]

On cd with vanish ideally

[ornate lake]

[slow hazel]

Guys how on earth can I improve my parses? Ive tried everything on wowhead and even analyzer which isnt of much use.

All I seem to hit is green parses

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PRB1ZMNfymVDA67b/

Yesterday got 2 domination sockets and will have to test them out next reset. But I doubt it will improve my green parses significantly

Any advice on what I can do to improve is appreciates.

Was hitting 80+ parses on my druid in 9.0. But am absolutely desperate currently with my assass rogue.

[velvet escarp]

how come u don't ever cast Vanish O_o

[ornate lake]

I'm on phone atm. But what I can see is your opener isn't optimal. And use vanish as offensive cd

[fallen arch]

Get a shard set

That’s reason no. 1 tbh

[ornate lake]

Without shards you can parse 80+ though

[fallen arch]

Ye true

[velvet escarp]

yeah your opener isn't right, wastes a GCD of Master Assassin

[fallen arch]

But with shards his first couple of blues would be 95s

[velvet escarp]

also you're currently flagging before getting to max CP or -1, which isn't optimal

some fights the bleeds fall off quite a bit

shiv is held quite long somtimes, didn't specifically check for which mechanics though

[fallen arch]

Your openers are super messy. For instance on the nine, you hit slice 10 seconds into the fight. You open with garrote with MA talent. Check some sample openers in

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[abstract venture]

@balmy condor, could you pin the Cd usage message in the past couple of days

[fallen arch]

Opener wrong on every fight. With ma talent it’s: mut-snd-mut-garr-flag-rup-shiv-vend-vanish

[velvet escarp]

on your Nine fight, your first SnD was like 10 seconds into the fight. buffs didn't show any existing SnD before that

[fallen arch]

Practice that on a target dummy

[fallen arch]

I said exactly same

[velvet escarp]

oh oops, didnt read what u wrote haha, was looking at the log and just typing right away

[fallen arch]

Better to have 2 ppl helping than zero

[balmy condor]

The Who the what

[oak sky]

all i know is slam shiv on cd 🎵 la la la la la la lee

[abstract venture]

You posted about holding flag to vendetta, without losing casts in fight

[velvet escarp]

this? #assassination-faq message

[tacit wedge]

Welcome back Whispyr

[balmy condor]

ty

[safe barn]

this might be a dumb question but

you guys think there is a "cap" on how high sin rogues can get in keys?

[tacit wedge]

You mean dps wise ?

[safe barn]

no, like, comp

[zinc frost]

I dunno about cap but pretty whatever we can do outlaw can do ten times better when it comes to utility

[simple stratus]

except gouge

oh you right

[balmy condor]

there usually is, yeah

it's been about 2-3 key levels under outlaw lately

[safe barn]

that's so weirdd

cus i feel like im doing more dps than outlaw everytime

sure i might be playing one better than the other but still

[zinc frost]

We can do good dps but outlaw has acrobatic strikes, grappling hook, gouge, doesn’t rely on stealth etc.

[balmy condor]

stealth

good meme

[zinc frost]

Go press your shadow dance 😛

[safe barn]

i'll probably just get portals and stop grinding so

i might be ok with that

[balmy condor]

(outlaw has more stealth reliance than sin btw)

(if it wasn't obvious)

[safe barn]

yeah

odds really needs that ambush

[balmy condor]

the whole "oh I need restealths" thing in general

is really fucking funny tbh

hold on

[ancient kraken]

3 dps loosing 3 globals and uptime with their buffs just so you can restealth

[oak sky]

restealths are nice but you can still blast without it

[balmy condor]

think removing stealth from dslice was like 1.5% for sin, 2% for outlaw, 0.9% for sub

I had a sim

[oak sky]

plus vanish

[balmy condor]

might've timed out

[zinc frost]

You don’t “need” restealths especially for damage but having 3 x garrote silences is pretty damn nice.

[tacit wedge]

I do more dps playing sin than playing outlaw, despite having close to 100% uptime on blade flurry in packs

[zinc frost]

Plus the 15 percent reduced damage. But yeah no one should be waiting for a rogue to restealth

[oak sky]

like yeah its 80% dmg on garrote

but sims dont lie

its not a huge loss

[tacit wedge]

Sin is just comf in keys

[slow hazel]

So if I fix my openers, what else can I improve?

I usually hit envenom at 4 cp or 5 cp, anything wrong with that?

I also wait with flag to combine it with vendetta

[shut garnet]

dont, u only sync them if it doesnt lose u a cast across the fight

so might be ok for the last vendetta of the fight or some shit but work it out beforehand when ud do it if at all

losing flags across a fight will fk ur dps

[fallen arch]

Dont do this

[rancid urchin]

PVE, Fleshcraft- should I just cast it and instantly cancel in combat to get the 2min mastery buff?

[terse talon]

damn just imoroved from 33% crit to 38% with rank 4 frost bonus! Can feel the difference 🙂

[slow hazel]

That might be one of the reasons why my parses are low.

[drifting cloud]

not having a set is the biggest thing, those things are just adding on top

[slow hazel]

Tnx for the rotation opener link

Ill practice it on dummy

[pine grove]

The frost set gives crit? I had no idea! Colour me educated.

[rapid forum]

With EP, I try to hit env the last sec of the ep buff to still get the damage buff right ?

[terse talon]

Just wanted to express the satisfaction, no need to be a douche

[pine grove]

Apologies! That really was not sarcasm and was not trying to be a dick. I didn't know the frost set gave crit. Or maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?

[left plaza]

both.

[pine grove]

Oh. You have frost set R4 and went up in crit. Now I get it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[terse talon]

oh sorry my bad 🙂 haha no I was just pointing put the dmg gain once I had got morr crit! Cheers dude

[pseudo nimbus]

I am considering switching to venthyr after playing necro. Is the flagellation harder to use than bonespike? Because if I use it at the wrong time I lose all the covenant ability benefits for the next 2 mins. That won't happen if I stay necro right?

[fathom flax]

Venthyr good

Stack cds

[hybrid cosmos]

hey guys, im at 42% crit and Rank 3 of the frost set, with the next reset i will be able to buy the next rank 6 lego (DS). Is it worth yet, or should i aim for higher crit and/or rank 4/5 frost?

[weak bane]

If you're decent at sin then nothing really changes except having to press flag. If you pool properly then you'll always get good stacks, you just have to make sure you don't pop it at a bad time like you already do with vendetta. Like is boss phasing to intermission in 10s? OK hold then

[rare scaffold]

I'm playing outlaw main but i wanna play sin as off spec I don't really wanna keep switching up my conduits what would be the next best soulbind for necro

[pseudo nimbus]

Thank you, that sounds reasonable. Last question, do you know if I have to replay through 9.1 campaign as the second covenant or that stays unlocked already?

[sterile chasm]

Bro how You have 42 crit haha

[weak bane]

You skip to korthia but still have to do the chains of domination campaign

For what it's worth, renown is ridiculously easy to get now

[shell wigeon]

shouldnt i try to get 4/5 cp before vanish to try to get 2 envenoms in ma?

[fallen arch]

no

[zinc frost]

Hold onto all that sweet sweet crit gear

[arctic hare]

Awww crap

[rare scaffold]

anyone ?

[shell wigeon]

anf why is it not worth?

[arctic hare]

I've been doin that wrong the entire time then?

I'm curious of this as well

[zinc frost]

Heimer

[rare scaffold]

I'm playing heimer as outlaw

what the next best one ?

[shell wigeon]

i thought gettin crit enve is better than 1 gcd quicker shiv

[hybrid cosmos]

?

[balmy condor]

consider the following

[arctic hare]

Lol

[sterile chasm]

I cannot beat my 35% :(

[arctic hare]

But yeah, why isn't having two envenoms in MA better than two muts?

[balmy condor]

they're pretty much equal

[drifting cloud]

they could have eye trinket its really easy to get high crit, without you need good jewelry mostly

[arctic hare]

Wait how? Doesn't envenom do more dmg?

[balmy condor]

more cp

you get the same envenom back

in the shiv window

[arctic hare]

Which feeds the rotation better, hmm, true

But why not a shiv empowered MA empowered envenom?

[arctic hare]

cause a crit with an shiv empowered envenom, would that put out more dmg overall than a ma empowered mut alone?

[balmy condor]

because you're losing cp

doing that

[arctic hare]

hmm, true

And therefore energy

[balmy condor]

what

[arctic hare]

it costs energy to generate cp, so its indirectly affected

[balmy condor]

sure

if that makes sense to you, I guess

[arctic hare]

lol, indeed

[weak bane]

Poor guy is just thinking out loud and doesn't know you're our Jesus

[balmy condor]

I ain't anyone

I'm a clown like everyone else

lmao

[shell wigeon]

and what if im full energy with max cp waiting 2-3sec to shiv. Should i just envenom and build again or just max cp muti?

[balmy condor]

is that a serious question

I can't tell anymore

[arctic hare]

never max cp mut lol

[drifting cloud]

dont be full energy

[shell wigeon]

bc if i pop enve and build max cp agsin for shiv window im usually not able to do 3 envenoms

[arctic hare]

Other than downtime, its always better to be constantly regenerating energy, since if you're capped, you end up wasting the energy you could have generated

[balmy condor]

holy shit

he's serious

AND HE SAID THE THING

yo hold on

let me get the uno reverse

[arctic hare]

I feel like I remember hearing that it doesn't matter how many envenoms are put into shiv windows

[weak bane]

LOL

[arctic hare]

yup, that lol

[twilit hollow]

If shiv cd=0 you slam

[weak bane]

[shell wigeon]

oh mb lol didnt see thst one coming xD

[twilit hollow]

Grip it and rip it

[arctic hare]

Lol, we have a form of grip, shadowstep hahaha

[weak bane]

The 3 envenom thing is a ptsd trigger here

[arctic hare]

Lol

[drifting cloud]

hey guys is ss azerite still bugged

[arctic hare]

what?

[drifting cloud]

dont worry about it, poorly timed 2018 joke

[arctic hare]

Lol

[zinc frost]

I appreciated the joke

[arctic hare]

Shadowstep azerite, what the heck did it even do, didn't play rogue in BFA

[balmy condor]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand shiv on cooldown. The timing is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the casts will go over a typical gamer's head. There's also Whispyr's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these shivs, to realise that they're not just big deeps- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike shiv on cooldown truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Whispyr's existential catchphrase "Check the Pins", which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as the Whispyr's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Whispyr tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎

[verbal mantle]

[arctic hare]

hahahahah

[drifting cloud]

you just wrote this didnt you

[arctic hare]

he did, he Sooooooooo did

[drifting cloud]

I can see you fixing up the original in 1min

[balmy condor]

I had an image in my head, a spark of imagination, and as a sigma male, executed on my primal urges

[weak bane]

Wait I took 4 uni classes on Russian literature

Fucking turgenev in a meme about shiv

My brain just exploded

[balmy condor]

it's a rick and morty copypasta

idk who the fuck turgenoodle is or whatever

[weak bane]

Oh god I remember now

[arctic hare]

Wait a minute, shiv on cooldown is awesome lol

[weak bane]

This was from like

The McDonald's sauce reeeeing era right

[balmy condor]

ye

[weak bane]

Humanity doesn't deserve existence

[zinc frost]

@balmy condor can that copypasta be the shiv command when anyone asks lmao

[balmy condor]

[weak bane]

Lmfao

[arctic hare]

honestly

that should totally do it

[balmy condor]

and people wondered if I was gone for good

I'm poppin

[arctic hare]

Hahahaha

[fallen arch]

Never better

[balmy condor]

poppin prozac's

[weak bane]

One of the main characters in that book is "too smart" for everyone and dies alone from syphilis while everyone goes on like he never existed. If you're curious of the reference at all lol

[balmy condor]

from syphilis?

[weak bane]

I believe it was syphilis at least

Bazarov was his name

[balmy condor]

too smart for a condom when he's banging some rando apparently

smh

[arctic hare]

lol

[weak bane]

Ah my bad it was blood poisoning cuz he got cocky performing some surgery in a village hut

Close enough

[balmy condor]

[arctic hare]

So

he DIED OF SEPSIS?

[balmy condor]

leave

[weak bane]

Fuck

Yes

Yes he did

[arctic hare]

Lol

I only now just realized what I have done

Wow, I made a pun without even realizing it

[zinc frost]

Soooo NF bis? Is that what I got from all of this

[arctic hare]

I'm impressed LOL

[weak bane]

Just make !sepsis a link to the purchase page for the book

[arctic hare]

Lol

I am proud of myself for making that sepsis pun

[weak bane]

I'm proud of you as well

[arctic hare]

Tbh, I have been slightly interested in the ability itself, but meh

other than that nightfae can go suck it

[balmy condor]

remember when sepsis

wasn't affected by shiv

[arctic hare]

I'm sorry

Sepsis used to not be affected by Shiv?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[arctic hare]

That hurts my soul

hey, I know

sepsis should just be a baseline ability

[balmy condor]

called kingsbane

you're right

[arctic hare]

since we already technically poison the enemy's blood

Kingsbane?

[rancid urchin]

During Combat - cast Fleshcraft when it's off CD, then cancel directly after GCD is ready, right? I'm getting so confused about Fleshcraft being part of the rotation, haah

[balmy condor]

you would just hard cast it

if you're gonna cast it, at least get the shield

ya know

you don't lose anything either

[rancid urchin]

For the purpose of maximizing damage, then that's not good, right

[balmy condor]

well

[marble hemlock]

depends on whether you just want it for the mitigation or for the shield as well

[balmy condor]

you cast it at low energy

[rancid urchin]

You get the mastery buffs and shit anyway

[marble hemlock]

but you usually can full channel without losing DPS

[rancid urchin]

Aight

[balmy condor]

just dump before casting it

and you should come out of the cast without overcapping

[random fossil]

you get a mastery buff for casting fleshcraft?

[marble hemlock]

only with marileth

[random fossil]

ahhh

[balmy condor]

soulbind ye

[marble hemlock]

with emeni you wanna full channel for the pustules

[random fossil]

are people playing marileth over heirmir?

[marble hemlock]

its like ~15k extra dmg every 2min

[balmy condor]

they're all good

[marble hemlock]

id recommend marileth on kelthuzad

[rancid urchin]

I just dinged (ilvl 200), so thats why - no particular reason 🙂

[hollow escarp]

mastery for ads?

[marble hemlock]

nah

kevin for remnant dmg

can even go preemptive strike

[hollow escarp]

[marble hemlock]

as the boss and remnant are new entities

so it should work

every phase

[hollow escarp]

I see

[oak sky]

looking back in the chat

[fathom flax]

Why’d you have to go and mention kingsbane now I’m all nostalgic for legion rogue

[oak sky]

how did he know about my tattoo

[fathom flax]

Bring me back to double legendaries rolling EP a whole fight and infinite energy from scoundrel

😦

[drowsy hollow]

I didn't realize so many sin rogues were still necrolord, pvp I'm assuming

Also suprised to not see any Kyrian in the top logs with Mikanikos, at least that seems like it'd be a good combo

[rustic portal]

Necro is still very good for raid

[tacit wedge]

Wash
Dem
Bones

The SBS bug made me swap to venthyr

[fallen arch]

Lol

U can safely return now

[drowsy hollow]

I like Venthyr more

better transmog for rogue

[tacit wedge]

I'm staying venthyr

More comf

+i have tea

[drowsy hollow]

I figured Kyrian would be doing better. Seems like some Outlaw like it

[tacit wedge]

+ember court

[vestal wren]

we should hold a tea ceremony in oribos^^

[oak sky]

kyrian isnt quite as good on sin as on outlaw and sub

[tacit wedge]

I vibe so hard with venthyr

Kinda miss being a uwu softgirl nightfae

[fathom flax]

If you had to pick, 252 of all, phial, ocular or shadowgrasp

Shadowgrasp is good but I really don’t like on use trinkets

[bleak phoenix]

anyone has a sim of frost dashing build necro vs venth? couldnt find one. cheers!

[tacit wedge]

@fathom flax sim it, but phial is giga on ST

[sterile chasm]

Ocular is bis for sin now?

[tacit wedge]

Tbh

Sim yourself

[shadow pivot]

Ocular gets better if you run frost/dashing

[fathom flax]

I know simming it I just meant what feels good haha

[spice spire]

Feelcraft

[tacit wedge]

Feelycraft

Maths isn't a good science anyway

Trust your guts

[red bloom]

That’s basic biology

[pseudo nimbus]

What's your opener on The Nine? Dot up both targets and then slam vedetta etc.?

[balmy condor]

dot 1, vend shiv vanish envenom that one like normal

after the shiv finishes, dot the other

[pseudo nimbus]

Thank you!

[balmy condor]

np

[fallen arch]

Is that really the best?

Not slam sbs into one first then the other

So use 2 globals for for 2x sbs on both?

[kind talon]

u slam sbs

if ur necro

@fallen arch

but thats a venthyr opener

[thorny pond]

I keep hitting my SBS button but nothing happen

[kind talon]

WTF

[fallen arch]

Cos its flag now ?

[thorny pond]

Maybe my Theotar soulbind is messing with it

[kind talon]

no its your dreamweaver soulbind

youre not pressing sepsis hard enough beach san

@balmy condor would it really be a loss to send a garrote into the other one on cd?

[thorny pond]

door of shadows behind you
Nothing personal kid

[kind talon]

as a generator?

[thorny pond]

Probably not

But shiv windows during vend

Kinda wanna maximize dps from that vend

[kind talon]

[fallen arch]

Ofc, but wouldnt the extra energy from dotting the other 1 help with that?

Since u don't lust on pull on the Nine usually

[thorny pond]

You’re not gonna be having energy issues there

[kind talon]

a rupture is out of the question

[balmy condor]

garrote probably fine yeah

[fallen arch]

So no rup on the other 1 during vendetta ?

Or not during shiv

[kind talon]

during shiv

[fallen arch]

Ye ok

[balmy condor]

during shiv + vend

[kind talon]

^^

ye

[thorny pond]

Shiv Vend is our sinful hysteria

Without the aids

[kind talon]

shiv vend cant melt stealbeams

[fallen arch]

Bonespikes can too

[kind talon]

Whispyr did The Eye

[thorny pond]

All you bone babies

[balmy condor]

I also did the nae nae

[kind talon]

no shot

did u nae nae on the haters

[thorny pond]

How bout the Whip?

[kind talon]

no he can only do the Whisp

do u think before u speak?

[thorny pond]

Never

[kind talon]

me too

[balmy condor]

I've been known to hit a woah or two in my day

[thorny pond]

I just full send CDs without checking too

[kind talon]

ive activated a CD before painsmith intermission once or twice

and lost atleast half of its effect

felt REALLY good tho

to just SLAM that cd you know

[thorny pond]

I’ll vendetta an add at 25% to prove a point to my raid leader not to f*** with me

[fallen arch]

Oh ye same

[kind talon]

ill vendetta my fucking raidleader bro

fuck the boss

[fallen arch]

When they mess with me

I just stand in Hunter range

shooting bone spikes

[kind talon]

[fallen arch]

Like in torgy with that range power

[balmy condor]

my raid lead says to hold cds on second intermission on eye

for the execute

you think I'm holding?

you fool

[thorny pond]

We got a hunter who wild spirits the adds on Soultender and thinks it’s big brain play

[fallen arch]

Boom that should be a thing

So I can be a proper hunter

[balmy condor]

it is a thing

you just linked it

[thorny pond]

nah dog

[fallen arch]

I mean outside of bullshitghast

[thorny pond]

that's paint

[balmy condor]

chips call that breakfast

[thorny pond]

You want a dev job Oz?

They need big brains like you

[fallen arch]

No

[kind talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/722152609904984171.png?v=1

god i love that emote

[fallen arch]

dasme

[chilly viper]

Do we know what's bis right now for Assa?

With the frost set buffs paired w/ dashing?

[thorny pond]

what do you mean BiS?

[zinc frost]

Frost set with dashing usually pulls ahead ST but best to sim yo self

[chilly viper]

I'm just wondering if sub is still worth playing

[thorny pond]

sim yourself

[chilly viper]

Okay whatever

[thorny pond]

lol

[zinc frost]

It’s literally dependent on lots of stuff, so that’s why we are saying to sim yourself with your gear. Like we don’t know how much crit you have, covenant etc.

[kind talon]

yes

sub is still worth playing

still better for a lot of fights

[chilly viper]

Good

[kind talon]

it rlly doesnt matter what spec u play rn. most are viable for every fight.

sin / sub are generally a bit stronger than outlaw because of big cds though.

[chilly viper]

I'm venth rn, was thinking switching necro for sin/outlaw instead of sub/sin

[kind talon]

and u end up holding dps for a lot of bosses

[chilly viper]

but with the recent sims outlaw was cranking a bit more even in ST with frost set

[kind talon]

i wouldnt swap off venth unless u really hate the covenant. it's best for sin and sub and contending best covenant for outlaw too.

[chilly viper]

only for ST though isnt

[kind talon]

yeah. if you want to push high mythic + or raid as outlaw, necro or kyrian would be a strong choice

venthyr is still viable unless youre talking about absolutely "world first" level of keys as outlaw

[chilly viper]

Right right

[kind talon]

and at the end of the day, you'd do less raid dps if you swap off of venthyr and dont play outlaw in raid

so i'd recommend against swapping off, again

im maining outlaw and currently doing the quests to go back venthyr (only for painsmith prog tho)

[drowsy parcel]

why? they fixed painsmith balls so they reset sbs again

[kind talon]

because outlaw doesn't have shadowstep

?

also venthyr is just better on painsmith cause you get your whole flag back during intermission

[verbal radish]

I just simmed venth soulbinds vs Necro. Does it take into account class ability in the sim? Or is it just comparing conduits.

[drowsy parcel]

semi fair i guess

[kind talon]

but my personal reason as outlaw is only for the shadowstep issue

[thorny pond]

it does

[drowsy parcel]

you could just brute force through a spike with fleshcraft and feint

[kind talon]

yeah

you could

but then im playing necro outlaw in raid

noty

[zinc frost]

Man, didn’t even think about poor little pirate rogues without ss on painsmith

[chilly viper]

@kind talon thx btw, that's more the kind of answer I wanted lol

[verbal radish]

It places Necro with heirmir higher for me but it might be because the rogues gear needs catch up?

[kind talon]

all good, dont flame ruptured or beach tho, they are cool dudes and pretty helpful community in general lol

but yeah, current rogue in general is a bit more complicated than "just sim it" imo

so i understand ur frustration

[thorny pond]

Here is Frost Dashing in my gear. Theo is top with all traits. Below that is all 3 necros

BS/DS

[kind talon]

would u link the sim?

[thorny pond]

I hate doing shit like this

[verbal radish]

I'll go back to my comp and see if I can find it in a moment, thanks decaf.

[kind talon]

alright

[balmy condor]

whats the confusion

[limber lion]

yeh just came back myself

what's happening

[thorny pond]

Why Necro feelcrafts better

[kind talon]

nothing?

[balmy condor]

feelcrafts better what

[kind talon]

someone is simming their covenants

thats it

[kind talon]

feelcraft these nuts beach

[thorny pond]

on my chin

[kind talon]

thats a deal 💯

[balmy condor]

[thorny pond]

Personal opinion, not only is it worse ST but if you're frost dashing why go Necro?

[distant cypress]

what is going on here

[thorny pond]

You're a ST cannon

[limber lion]

Just play whatever the fuck you want.

Who cares.

If something feels better, play that.

Who cares about the numbers

[chilly viper]

It's all about topping the meter

who cares about downing a boss

[distant cypress]

who cares about raiding, just do pet battles

[limber lion]

I personally care about numbers quite a bit, but I also play the spec at a high level. The covenant choices are so close to each other, you can honestly play anything and do well.

If you're a casual dabbler of assassination, just play whatever you want.

[distant cypress]

did you just imply that some of us are c-c-casuals ?

[limber lion]

Most people are.

And that's fine.

Not everyone has 8+ hours a day to dedicate to this videogame.

[distant cypress]

how dare you, im rogue masterrace player, i need 10 sim charts on my second screen, livelog and a class discord with whispyr on

telling me how to play to git gud

[gusty mirage]

Tried that. He just laughed at me tbh

[distant cypress]

just ask him for a pawn string

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

Man’s trying to get me stabbed

[quasi venture]

Its preferance after all

[gusty mirage]

It really is though

[quasi venture]

it truuly is.

[limber lion]

It stops being preference when you're maxed out in bis gear, in a bis raiding scenario with all raid buffs + wft, where the fight length is ideal and you don't get cucked by mechanics.

And you're pumping top 10 parses from every boss.

So, never.

[gusty mirage]

I’d also argue that it’s preference even before then unless you’re like hall of fame pushing

[quasi venture]

yee about that. do you guys actually get bis gear?

[real bay]

what gear

[limber lion]

Sometimes.

[real bay]

still below 240

[gusty mirage]

Y’all get gear?

[limber lion]

It depends on how long of a tier it is.

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

Or when the patch drops.

[spice spire]

i think its hilarious u kids talking shit about Cev. u wouldnt say this shit to him at lan, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire adopt me as a raider pls

I feel like a lost sheep

[spice spire]

Gotcha king

[distant cypress]

what a chad

[spice spire]

You want in tonight?

[gusty mirage]

What time do y’all raid?

[spice spire]

Heroic fatescribe prog tho

[gusty mirage]

I cleared 8/10 on my trial

[real bay]

same shit different tier, wait 2 months to catch up on gear then do 99% parses

[gusty mirage]

Oh

[quasi venture]

[spice spire]

Yeah

I’m a casual shitter king

[kind talon]

i mean

[spice spire]

If you want next week for vault well bring you through clear is ez

[kind talon]

covenant is a choice

talents are a choice

[gusty mirage]

I’m just chilling in my old guild for the free repairs

[quasi venture]

rohkalo hc prog sounds like the definition of pain and suffering.

[spice spire]

Kinda toxic high key

[gusty mirage]

And the free potions

[kind talon]

fuck it just tell people to use master poisoner

[gusty mirage]

Bro wdym the GM and officers all left

[spice spire]

Haven’t even started the boss yet

First pulls are deadass tonight

Painsmith was pain

[gusty mirage]

Fatescribe is a fun fight tbh

[verbal radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t2uDy9ynRmF25gTkUbxhTU

[spice spire]

I don’t mind it, but people tend not to be able to do their own mechanics

[gusty mirage]

Unless “hey you stand on this rune until it goes in the box” is too hard for your raid to comprehend

[spice spire]

Which kinda ruins it

One dude on p3 normal would do it half way and be like “oh it would have been quicker to go the other way, let’s do that now” kinda thing

[gusty mirage]

Prepare for some pain on the first dozen or so pulls lol

Lmfaooooooo

[spice spire]

KT seems ez. Sylvanas seems kinda free with gear

[verbal radish]

@kind talon I stopped playing Rogue for a bit, and am planning to return to it. So that gear was before the domination sockets

[limber lion]

I honestly just want to kill Sylv so I can be done with the tier and do something else.

[spice spire]

So I’m not worried about clearing it at all - really just one wall fight

Deadass never thought I’d hear that from Cev

[gusty mirage]

Like coach me to be half as good as you are?

[distant cypress]

I need to confess, im slowly stopping playing rogue...wow overall and embracing ninja in ffxiv

[fallen arch]

He said the forbidden word

[gusty mirage]

Ninja?

[distant cypress]

yesterday on painsmith i tried to cast ninjutsu

[gusty mirage]

I hear ninja’s a ton of fun in ffxiv. No shame in that

[distant cypress]

because i forgot what game im playing

[kind talon]

looks like you dont have lashing scars or sudden fractures selected, those are easily some of our best conduits

[limber lion]

My girlfriend is not the biggest fan of the wow raiding.

[kind talon]

but yeah i would just play whichever covenant looks fun to you

[strange python]

how is doomblade better for 3 targets but dashing better in any other scenario? will you be using mutilate and envenom instead of fok and CT? 3 target constant cleave seems very nieche

[spice spire]

Mine isn’t either. But glad you’re spending some time with her chief. It’s important to have that balance. My m-Th is usually borked with her so I try to really spend time with her in the weekends

[verbal radish]

Thanks, appreciate it.

[gusty mirage]

Because you Mutilate in 3T unless you need to reapply poisons

[limber lion]

It's a very dumb pin and wouldn't recommend putting too much thought on it.

[distant cypress]

its your own pin and you call it dumb :(

why would you do this Cev

[limber lion]

Had to make one in the middle of nowhere

[strange python]

sims vs reality

[limber lion]

because everyone kept asking about it

[strange python]

😄

[limber lion]

Huh?

[distant cypress]

are you trying to imply sims are not reality? how dare you

[limber lion]

In reality you will never feel the difference between either legendary

Ever.

[kind talon]

except for aoe

[limber lion]

No.

[kind talon]

when doomblade does nothing cause you arent mutilating

[strange python]

i mean it may be good in a 3 target constant cleave scenario, but that rarely happens

[limber lion]

Why does that matter?

Doomblade not adding 200 dps to your 10k dps

is not something you feel

[kind talon]

sure

then

[limber lion]

"oh this legendary feels so bad to play"

[kind talon]

you wouldnt feel having the leggo equipped

[limber lion]

it's literally 100% passive

[kind talon]

yeah

a bunch of shit is 100% passive

[limber lion]

You don't play aroudn the legendary

Yes

[distant cypress]

what do you mean doomblade doesnt do anything... doesnt it increase envenom dmg per bleed on target?

[limber lion]

You will NEVER feel the difference between the two legendaries in massive aoe.

I can 100% guarantee that.

[kind talon]

you dont feel anything passive

[limber lion]

There's THOUSANDS of variables in the game.

You using a different legendary that's 1% worse

is never something you feel

between 2 passive choices.

[kind talon]

same with nightstalker vs MA then

[limber lion]

You suddenly popping off and doing more damage isn't because you used a better legendary

It's because your frost proc crit.

[strange python]

is it passive when you wanna keep the doomblade dot up on 3 targets?

[kind talon]

yes

[limber lion]

This game has an automatic 5% variable on all damage.

[kind talon]

multidotting with doomblade doesnt matter

[limber lion]

That's more than any legendary difference.

[limber lion]

You don't multidot with Mutilate when using Doomblade.

It doesn't work like that.

[strange python]

how then?

[limber lion]

You just mutilate your main target.

[strange python]

ic

[kind talon]

@limber lion you're completely correct and i agree with everything you have said. however, to me and probably to some others as well, it FEELS bad to have a legendary equipped that massively increases your mutilate power, while playing content that you literally dont press that ability in

your argument is sound, and i agree

[strange python]

and just fok to apply poison?

[limber lion]

But how does that feel any worse?

Why does that feel worse?

[kind talon]

cause i know i could be doing more damage, however marginal, with a different legendary / talent choice

[limber lion]

It's literally 100% passive and the choice between 2 passive legendaries will never show up in your overall dps.

[kind talon]

even if its 100% passive

[limber lion]

Like that's just incorrect

It doesn't feel any worse

It might be useless, but it doesn't feel worse.

That's just not how it works

[kind talon]

im not saying that

the leggo "feels worse" to use

[quasi venture]

kinda what you are saying tho?

[kind talon]

its a syntax error i guess

[limber lion]

wat

[kind talon]

it feels bad to me to have a useless leggo equipped?

idk

man

[limber lion]

But why does it feel bad

when you literally

[kind talon]

i feel like i should use a leggo that does something

[limber lion]

don't feel it

in any way

not in dps

or not in play

you don't play around the legendary

and your dps doesn't change

why does it feel bad?

lik

wat

[kind talon]

?????

it does nothing

[dawn ivy]

he wants to mentally know that his legendary is being used in the content hes doing

idk how thats hard to understand

[limber lion]

Dashing doesn't do anything either

[dawn ivy]

im not saying hes right

[limber lion]

It increases your damage by 1%

[dawn ivy]

it does though

[kind talon]

yeah id rather play zoldyck

[dawn ivy]

sure

[limber lion]

Does that feel good?

Do you feel that?

No you don't.

[dawn ivy]

but its doing something

[limber lion]

You never do

[kind talon]

lmao

ok cev

[dawn ivy]

and you know its doing something

[kind talon]

idk man

[quasi ledge]

Yeah it's not a hard concept to grasp

[kind talon]

ur literally like

[dawn ivy]

you know doomblade is doing nothing.

[kind talon]

playing around with the syntax of the word "feel"

and using dictionary definition

[limber lion]

That's just not what "feels bad" means.

Playing Deeper Strata instead of Vigor

that shit feels bad

[dawn ivy]

bro "feel" is literally subjective

[kind talon]

bro

LMAO

u

holy fuck

[dawn ivy]

you cant tell someone thats not how feeling works

[limber lion]

okidoki

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

i can play without a fucking leggo equipped

and equip fucking doomblade

[limber lion]

I was wondering why I felt so bad raiding yesterday

[kind talon]

and wow i cant feel the difference

[limber lion]

maybe it was because I didn't use a rune every pull

that would have felt so much better

[distant cypress]

whispyr just share your pawn string

[kind talon]

LOL

[quasi venture]

[kind talon]

feelcraft is fucking stupid

saying something "feels better to use" is dumb

and overused

i understand

[limber lion]

but that's what you just said

[kind talon]

where youre coming from

[quasi ledge]

It's the same as feeling better when you have transmog, it literally has no benefit outside of feeling better about what you're doing. Thinking about it in white and black is fucking stupid

[limber lion]

also this is not feelcrafting

feelcrafting is a completely different concept.

[balmy condor]

how about

we all breathe

ready

in

2

[distant cypress]

but oxygen is a poison whispyr

[balmy condor]

3

4

[quasi venture]

Ah fuck that's a madeup name feelcrafting

[balmy condor]

5

and now out

2

3

4

5

[sterile chasm]

Stop spaming

[balmy condor]

better?

[distant cypress]

didnt you hear, its goverment way to slowly kill you

[zinc frost]

Sometimes you get advice about how to play rogue sometimes you get schooled on philosophy.

[kind talon]

w/e man i cba

[fallen arch]

Imm gonna get Koffing

[velvet escarp]

Cev is talking about physical feeling in terms of gameplay and rotation (as well as marginal dps differences leading to no frustration about dps output), decaf is talking about mental feeling of pressing a button which has no interaction with the legendary. both are using 2 different definitions of "feel"

[gusty mirage]

Uh oh he’s calling dad

[balmy condor]

yeh but they go at it for fun I guess

[velvet escarp]

i hope so >.<

[quasi ledge]

Why bother min maxing at all when it's so minimal it doesn't matter. Because you feel better knowing you're maxing out. Same concept, not hard

[kind talon]

nah im getting legit tilted cause im trying to differentiate the ways we are approaching how something "feels"

and getting told that there is only one definition for the word ever

[limber lion]

So, has everyone swapped to Outlaw already?

Any assa gamers in the chat?

[quasi venture]

[fallen arch]

[balmy condor]

[fallen arch]

I’ll never play outlaw

[balmy condor]

;)

[zinc frost]

What’s outlaw

[velvet escarp]

im playing sin (and sub) for prog lol

[north basin]

Sin was fun until it lasted! Less potential dps ==> less desire to play that spec. Sub/outlo - go!

[quasi venture]

[gusty mirage]

Damn ronkles was playing 4d chess going kyrian I guess

[kind talon]

when did ronkles swap kyr

this tier?

[balmy condor]

ye

[kind talon]

big kyr outlaw /sub gamer

[balmy condor]

outlaw gamer

[kind talon]

ye

oops

kekw

[balmy condor]

ronkles doesn't play sub

[kind talon]

i did the same thing lmao

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/641887796004651008.png?v=1

[keen aurora]

Did I miss something? Are we the baddies now?

[kind talon]

no

[shut flame]

guys, sbs is a primary builder, right? so basically on a fresh pack, after garrotes and CT, ur sbsing-rupt them, right? and garrote on CD if debuff not up

[marble hemlock]

pretty much, yeah

[keen aurora]

Can any big dongers tell me what the true chad opener for ST as a necrolord is? The one on Wowhead is very different from what I've seen streamers do

[real frost]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[fallen arch]

What streamers

[spice spire]

Sbs > SnD > Mut > rupture > go on with your day as normal

[real bay]

never forget g g g rup rup rup rup fok fok look 40k dps all dead

[gusty mirage]

Don’t make him say it

I die on the inside every time I read that name

[fallen arch]

SHAT REALLY

[gusty mirage]

‘Twas simpler times

[fallen arch]

I like this better

[shut flame]

if thrown shiv in aoe, ur staying on that target for shiv duration?

[marble hemlock]

yep

[real bay]

not getting restealths sucked ass in bfa

[gusty mirage]

Tru but you learned to get a lot of them

[shut flame]

I mean even some of the mobs still w/o rupt

[gusty mirage]

Plus chaining wasn’t terrible. You’d be drowning in energy if your tank wasn’t an ape

[real bay]

yea but those garrotes did massive dmg

[gusty mirage]

I do too, but I’d let Ion cube crawl me for that extra garrote cp tho

[shut flame]

thanks!

[kind talon]

garrote 1 garrote 2 garrote 3

exsanguinate

[balmy condor]

you're gonna wanna get 34% crit first

[red bloom]

34%

[balmy condor]

what he say with his frost clickbait video now

is it 44%

or 40%

[fallen arch]

70

[balmy condor]

I heard rumors that he's throwing another number around

[gusty mirage]

Idk what’s more tragic, his bad advice or his hairline

[balmy condor]

ouch

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Toxi

[edgy whale]

Which video, who are you talking about?

[alpine latch]

So ... I got AotC on Saturday. I didn't exactly expect Edge of Night or anything - but looting 125 anima and 1 Ember is like the worst feeling ever.

[fallen arch]

No one

[balmy condor]

no one important

[spice spire]

The vault tho papi

Ez edge

[fallen arch]

Word

[alpine latch]

15 raid bosses this week and 6 m+ yesterday and I got 1 item that was an 11 DPS decrease

I could have no played all this week and there would have been absolutely no change

[real bay]

sounds like a normal week

[spice spire]

I’ve done legitimately 18 m+ this week lol - happens to the best of us. Thicc vault tho

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I'm never running 18 m+. I don't enjoy m+ at all. Literally the only reason I do it is for the vault (which is the most unrewarding loot system in modern gaming)

[lavish lichen]

You think the vault is worse than BFA chest? 👀

[real bay]

having to do 10 is obnoxious

takes far more time than kill 9 raid bosses

[spice spire]

Same diff most of the time 😛

[edgy whale]

Well, you dont „have“ to

[spice spire]

I enjoy doing m+ tho so that’s a bit of a diff

[lavish lichen]

Also way more chances to get loot each dungeon than in raid bosses

Also 4 dungeons is also fine

Don’t need 10

[alpine latch]

I think they're the same system created by people who don't play the game in order to replace the "slot machine" feeling that gamers fucking hate.

[real bay]

blizz should lower it from 10 to like 7-8, who thought 1-4-10 makes sense?

[winged basin]

I got a notification on Twitter about that video and I had to ask myself how I got auto notifs for the topic “Useless Information”

[alpine latch]

I would, personally, enjoy m+ if it weren't a source of power for raid.

[lavish lichen]

It used to be more before iirc

[alpine latch]

It didn't

Raid went from 3/7/10 to 3/6/9

That's probably what you're thinking of

[lavish lichen]

It was more dungeons before

In beta

Then they changed it

[real bay]

beta is always f'd up

[alpine latch]

Oh - yeah IDK shit about beta

lol

[lavish lichen]

Yea like when they first announced it

[alpine latch]

I just remember raid vault used to require 10 then they changed it super early

[narrow ravine]

what I don't get is why m+ gives higher loot than what drops but raiding gives the same ilevel of loot that drops in that raid

[bitter canyon]

I mainly enjoy m+ and hate how you need shards and dom sockets from raid for m+ :(

Goes both ways

[lavish lichen]

Bc m+ is repeatable

Raid is not

[young crown]

With MA talented why do you use mutilate in opener instead of ambush? If i read tooltip it seems like ambush does more damage

[lavish lichen]

You’re looking at it backwards

M+ and raid gives the same ilvl chest rewards (minus last 2 bosses)

But since you can spam m+

End of dungeon is lower

[alpine latch]

I would enjoy m+ far better if it was something you did for fun and not a power gain at the end of the week IF you got lucky.

I'm getting tired of RNG on top of RNG

[lavish lichen]

Yea fuck that

If I didnt get loot

[alpine latch]

It wasn't fun 10 years ago and it's less and less tolerable now.

[lavish lichen]

You may as well delete it from the game

[narrow ravine]

well it is, from the perspective that all raiders can do +15 easily, and the 'for fun' part is pushing keys in the 20s

[bitter canyon]

I really enjoy pushing keys

[narrow ravine]

they get nothing bonus for doing keys in the 20s

[hollow river]

A lot more stuff drops from dungeons therefor it’s way more difficult to get the items u actually need

[alpine latch]

Cool - then do it. But for non-Mythic raiders, m+ is by far their best way to gear up

[bitter canyon]

Portals and an achievement to flex on others 😎

[hollow river]

Also false