No need to build cp's first.
#assassination
ornate lake
pliant grail
i always try to land 2 envs in MA window, guess its not mandatory 🙂
limber lion
Definitely not
Using 2 Muti's has the benefit of getting more combo points with Seal Fate
but the difference is so minimal it doesn't honestly matter
pliant grail
oh good to hear then 🙂 thanks
manic pebble
should I get 262 leggo now?
heavy skiff
Using 2 Muti's has the benefit of getting more combo points with Seal Fate
Its prob a gain using obedience
runic maple
does flagellation lash against any target while its active or only at the enemy I targeted while activating it?
frosty cedar
the second
heavy skiff
The one u cast it on
runic maple
oh good to know lol
short token
guys i just wanna be sure, doomblade on cloak is the way to go for 262 leggo right? 100%? I'm necro btw
solid venture
short token
ok, i was 99.9 but...1650 cinders hehe
west geode
does 239 sudden fracture drop anywhere?
bleak sun
U have to upgrade it with adamanth vault luck /tier 6 item
west geode
thought so. thank you
muted mortar
harsh anchor
the doooOooOOoor oOppenns
lavish quarry
is there a source for high level lashing scars besides upgrading?
fallen arch
See 5 comments up
lavish quarry
so its the same with sudden, thx
balmy condor
Yep
little condor
edge of night in main hand if both ilvls are the same?
balmy condor
Shouldn’t matter
grizzled mist
does anyone know where i can find the BiS Nadjia build?
balmy condor
grizzled mist
wowhead says at 80 renown its theotar
balmy condor
You should sim yourself
graceful mirage
i mean there is not that much variance on what you pick on nadja
balmy condor
It’s just conduits really
graceful mirage
you either go for the triple potency or the dauntless
and the conduits you sin
the non damage related ones will seldom matter
so at most the only real choice is at the end where you can pick a defensive or a utility conduit before the alst one
manic harness
Oh those new FAQ sections are great
graceful mirage
yeah i really like having info condensed like that
it makes for a helpful read when you need to do quick changes that don't require simming or to remind yourself on openers and stuff
helps when you change specs a lot
frail fossil
is there ever a target count where u drop SnD ?
shut flame
Guys, bug 3 exists only on dummies?
balmy condor
is there ever a target count where u drop SnD ?
No
shut flame
@limber lion hi, you mentioned some time ago your nameplates profile, can you please put the link again?
balmy condor
Guys, bug 3 exists only on dummies?
It says painsmith orbs as an example in the post
balmy condor
It’s possible, not actually sure how their aggro works
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> hi, you mentioned some time ago your nameplates profile,...
https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr
I haven't updated it yet, I need to get around to it some day
shut flame
https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr
I haven't updated it yet, I need to get around to it s...
ty!
upper trout
anyone getting a 'deflected' message on bonespike sometimes when opening with it?
can it be parried?
strange silo
should i delay vendetta for around 50 sec to sync it with lust or just slam it like normal?
balmy condor
If you won’t miss a cast, you should sync
strange silo
hm at this point im not sure if ill lose one we use lust at around 3 min for the nine mythic and we are at 70% skyja with around 4min infight time
ebon notch
does vendetta buff flag damage?
balmy condor
Yes
ebon notch
ty
cursive silo
burst sylvanas and then keep for p3 kekw
wild mural
You can use it everytime sylvanas is vulnerable in p2
cobalt pelican
i usually just use on first burn and summoner2 but it depends on how fast/slow your kills are and where you lust really
heavy coral
Thank you guys 
thin trout
anyone know how the projectile for Wailing Arrow works? Does it 'follow' you when you shadowstep?
odd python
timid talon
he means for the mass dispel strat
limber lion
ah right
timid talon
Either be inner or have someone iceblock/bubble near the ledge for you
cloak also works
ember jay
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
cursive silo
if you have a brm ask for a statue
primal zodiac
anyone encountered fatescribe adds not being attackable?
limber lion
eh its inconsistent
literally makes no difference
if you step your partner, you'll never fail
if you try to step the boss, you'll fail most of the time
primal zodiac
anyone encountered fatescribe adds not being attackable?
im talking about the tank add, half our melees cant attack it
balmy condor
haven't heard of that
primal zodiac
hmm when im attacking the animation instantly gets canceled
looks similar to if you spam the soulwell
iron orchid
I sometimes get this, but it's not consistent
I don't really get what triggers this bug
But if I tab-target to boss and back to tank add
It often solves it
prisma monolithBOT
primal zodiac
It often solves it
didnt help me this try, but thanks, at least we're not the only ones
glass grotto
Are the Nerzhul orbs supposed to give back SBS charges normally without the bug ?
arctic walrus
Don’t think so
jovial spear
is a 233 chest with domination socket worth using over a 249?
abstract venture
Anyone has nerzhul shadow step macro ?
its bugged and i cant cast on a friendly target
graceful mirage
is a 233 chest with domination socket worth using over a 249?
will it let you get your socket bonus active?
mint kindle
Do you guys keep Crimson Tempest up when you're on a single target?
No, right? Just for AoE
graceful mirage
so craft that first
carmine latch
Does obedience work fine for m+ too?
limber lion
Anyone has nerzhul shadow step macro ?
What kind of a macro is that?
I just legit target my ally
and press the ability
there's no fancy schmancy tricks or macros for it
lone wren
im talking about the tank add, half our melees cant attack it
Yes it happens to me all the time. It has something to do with the wood panel that separates each ring lane. The part that doesn't spin during intermission. It looks like the collision mesh on it causes los issues
primal zodiac
so standing on the rings helps?
lone wren
No
primal zodiac
😦
lone wren
The add itself and you need to be on the same side
Which is nearly impossible because usually the tank is dragging it over. So either just get your range to attack it or have your tanks path the add over the outside rim of the circle
We don't need melee dps on it so it hasn't been a huge issue for us.
abstract venture
What kind of a macro is that?
It wasn't working, got the macro and its working, ty tho
lone wren
But yeah it is a bug and a very annoying one at that.
hollow haven
guys ist worth to rupture the orbs in nerzhul for energy regen ?
frail fossil
yes
hollow haven
before they take the frontal
frail fossil
yeye it is
lone wren
guys ist worth to rupture the orbs in nerzhul for energy regen ?
Yes but don't bother with a 6cp one, ideally a single combo point rupture generates by a garrot on the ball is sufficient for most groups
jovial spear
will it let you get your socket bonus active?
not yet, only have 2 socket pieces..
tawdry sparrow
so.. quite new to the domination socket system, if i understand correct according to bloodmallet we go with unholy right? port shard dyz, fore shard dyz and desolate dyz? or am i mistaking?
limber lion
It wasn't working, got the macro and its working, ty tho
What macro is it out of curiosity?
mint kindle
Anyone that has done Roh-kalo as assa please?
abstract venture
What macro is it out of curiosity?
You dont need fancy schmancy tricks XD all guchi..
limber lion
You dont need fancy schmancy tricks XD all guchi..
Can you just tell me what the macro does...
slow marsh
...
graceful mirage
Maybe they mean mousover macro for shadowstep?
I just have vuhdo bind left click to shadowstep
And I just click whoever I want to jump to
chilly marsh
hey guys for Oryphrion you burst pull if you have or save for the drained debuff?
i think we cna have 2 vendeta if used on pull
note sure what is better in this case
balmy condor
depends on how long boss is alive
gloomy rose
is it safe to shadowstep during laser on eye?
carmine latch
lol I thought obedience gave 0.5% versa for every combo point but nah
this lego rly tht gud? :p it only a bit of a cooldown reduction
slow marsh
it does give vers
plush remnant
It goes from .5% to 15% if you get 30 stacks
carmine latch
the desc is fooling me
granite jackal
Hi ya all! Still working on getting my rotation mastered and I'm curious on prep for Vendetta windows. Is there anything special I need to do before Vendetta comes off cd or just maintain normal rotation?
balmy condor
Hi ya all! Still working on getting my rotation mastered and I'm curious on prep...
just pool like normal
granite jackal
Okay thanks! And generally in that window with vanish up when should I be using my vanish?
mental trout
looks like Sbs is going to be bugged for a bit lol
opps meant for that link not the first lol
balmy condor
Okay thanks! And generally in that window with vanish up when should I be using ...
with MA during shiv, with subterfuge with/before vend to get a stronger garrote
late gulch
is assasin considered the best raiding spec =)?
mental trout
top 5 for heroic right now i think
late gulch
i meant out of the rogue specs 🙂
late gulch
gonna lvl my rogue up for raiding. and i wanna play best spec for raids.
mental trout
in heroic raid sub beast sin, but in mythic sin beats sub lol
i unno
sin or sub, think you can pick either one tbh
balmy condor
sin and sub each have their fights
late gulch
what made sub better in 9.1 did it get buffs? i heard few months ago that it was rly bad. or is it just scaling with higher gear?
late gulch
in 9.1?
balmy condor
yes
drifting cloud
📈
unkempt pilot
The 3set domination only work on raid right? Useless in mm+?
arctic walrus
The set bonus only works in raid, maw/korthia, and torghast
the sockets themselves work anywhere
alpine latch
Hell yeah. I'm up to 6 shards now. I should have at least 2 full sets by Wednesday or Thursday and will hopefully see my DPS hit over 8k in sims
Finally replaced one of my 220 daggers today too. That was a pain in the ass to get
spare whale
What's the reason to pool before envenom?
late bolt
What's the reason to pool before envenom?
"Our current pooling cases are on envenom, where we will hold until about 30 energy from maximum. This maximizes the amount of casts applying poisons during the envenom buff, and also naturally pools into cooldown windows such as vendetta/shiv. Do not pool during shiv/vendetta."
misty bough
fuck this game is dogshit
why can u even replace domination sockets with a new one, destroying the old one
lavish lichen
You never put a socket into an item and then change the socket? 
frail fossil
why can u even replace domination sockets with a new one, destroying the old one
need to use soul chisel
misty bough
these fucking sockets are undestroyable if u wanna destroy them manually
lavish lichen
Domination socket helper
misty bough
its so stupid
lavish lichen
Submit a ticket maybe they’ll be nice?
misty bough
most likely not
ebon notch
any remnant mythic killers in here?
drifting cloud
not most likely, 100%
misty bough
it straight up should be restoreable on the website
alpine garden
I think someone said a while ago they were told by support they couldn't do anything
safe rover
Do we hold using flag/vendetta either together or separately for a chaos bane proc?
misty bough
its funny how they all suddenly would be able to do something if i was a top streamer kekw
balmy condor
its funny how they all suddenly would be able to do something if i was a top str...
they didn't fix it for limit/echo
polar ice
Anyone have an enrage WA fro shiv? I'm using this one but I'm looking for something with only enrage for use with Shiv. I normally blow Arcane on resources.
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
frail fossil
it straight up should be restoreable on the website
they literally made a post saying they cant
so ur wasting ur time here
misty bough
yea i did read that
and I can literally bet my lifesaving that they CAN but wont
multidollar company
frail fossil
sonic schooner
Weird stuff, i open with sbs, i got instantanely while "casting" sbs, so i just SND, and when my sbs hit the boss i got 2 more cp
ebon notch
Weird stuff, i open with sbs, i got instantanely while "casting" sbs, so i just ...
its because you get guaranteed CP from casting it
and then the travel time
and then it hits and if it crits
you get more cp
but you have to wait for the sbs to actually hit the boss
sonic schooner
it s still 3 cp from one sbs
silver osprey
does sbs count as a bleed for doomblade
ebon notch
yes
ebon notch
it s still 3 cp from one sbs
yeah because assa has a passive where if your combo generators crit they get extra cp
and sbs is a combo generator
lapis dew
ebon notch
i wonder if the initial bleed from sbs is critting and giving a cp where it shouldnt
spice spire
3 days ago i got no cp, now i got too much cp
Sudden fractures maybe?
shrewd ether
zoldyck leg?
balmy condor
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE TO DOM SHARDS/SETS AND LEGENDARIES
DONT USE IT BECAUSE IT SEEMS BUSTED ATM
TLDR AT THE BOTTOM
Sim: https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tJQFZPTK7h2ZoCvGtkPqbZ
Dashing Scoundrel with a frost set actually pulls ahead over the obedience/doomblade we're used to. The gains are bigger for venthyr, but are still present for other covenants. This also heavily values BS/Deeper over EP/Vigor
Why this is a thing and how we missed it:
- This requires some very specific conditions to work. You need MOST TO ALL OF THESE THINGS IN COMBINATION TO MAKE THIS WORK
- High level (4-5) frost set
- Dashing Scoundrel
- Fatal Flaws from nadjia
- A lot of crit and gear (the lowest seeming "breakpoints" are around 30-40% crit if everything adds up properly)
Technically Frost is also a slight gain with crazy crazy high gear (254+ ilevel) on obedience/doomblade profiles when shifting into more crit.
- This only exists because of blizzard buffing the set bonuses by an insane amount through the hotfix here: https://www.wowhead.com/news/shards-of-domination-tuning-incoming-323267 which went live 2 resets ago.
Some other things to note:
This is ONLY for assassination, because of the extra crits from dashing enabling this. Sub/Outlaw are unaffected by this finding.
TLDR
- Dashing + crit + high level frost is new bis
- If you are multi-speccing, it is most likely still worth leveling your unholy gems. Sub/Outlaw are unaffected by this.
- BS/Deeper is really good. Nadjia unlocking is very powerful.
- DONT USE IT BECAUSE IT SEEMS BUSTED ATM
- This all may change depending on how buggy the set bonus is
spice spire
shrewd ether
thanks guys ❤️
spice spire
zoldyck leg?
Yes
slow marsh
not true for necro
but it also holds true at rank 3 gems btw
i haven't tested 2 yet but rank 3 is about 15 dps gain frost over UH, but only after we get fatal flaw
balmy condor
but it also holds true at rank 3 gems btw
3 is too inconsistent to recommend
slow marsh
cool cool
odd heath
good part is that Dashing Scoundrel feels better to play with
slow marsh
yes it does
manic merlin
Does cloak of shadow remove Ire and Scorn from eye of the jailer?
arctic walrus
yes
minor anchor
It doesn't remove it but it prevents the next application
minor anchor
If you're taking the chain across the gap, you can cloak before that so the ticking damage doesn't kill you while mid air.
If you are going high on stacks
short ravine
What do we actually think the time scale will be to sort out the sbs bugs?
arctic walrus
@balmy condor frost/dashing is a gain basically instantly regardless of fatal flaw/high lvl
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> frost/dashing is a gain basically instantly regardless of...
For very select people yes
But it wasn’t a gain without fatal flaws for like 4 people
And it wasn’t a gain even with fatal flaws
For a couple others
It’s wildly inconsistent
arctic walrus
well what my character has on is canon, I am the main character, so listen to me now 
minor anchor
Is frost "pool" from crits affect by vers?
minor anchor
I just wonder if vers would triple dip from our damage, the frost pooling, then the final words of winter damage
civic trellis
But it wasn’t a gain without fatal flaws for like 4 people
Is not even with rank 5 of frost bonus, for me
with fatal blow
balmy condor
Which is a fucking headache
twilit hollow
Wait I didn't realize you were the rogue in consequence vel
arctic walrus
I'm definitely one of em
placid pagoda
New pin is slightly hectic
twilit hollow
Consequence owns
placid pagoda
So outlaw could be new Bis?
civic trellis
Sub/Outlaw are unaffected by this.
idle light
not an upgrade for me, and i have 37% crit
placid pagoda
`Sub/Outlaw are unaffected by this.`
Oh yep misread, I was confusing Dashing for GS outlaw Lego
misty holly
9.1.5
shy dust
Consequence owns
we got both here 👀
idle light
chest is blood
arctic walrus
yea just unfortunate we haven't had the chance to grind korthia because we are in sanctum 24/7
drifting cloud
balmy condor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nmXgZjvJPvv5P5U2a5D1Nv
41% crit
That’ll help
cobalt pelican
i too am a very critical gamer
you really gotta be an american draenei roleplayer to recognize consequence
placid pagoda
I’m so on the fence on whether to go back venth
indigo ginkgo
my char has necro sims higher than in venthir in singel target wtf
placid pagoda
Ye that’s why I swapped coz doomblade sims higher than obe for me
balmy condor
yea I have 50% crit with sub in dungeons if I take 1 champions brand
Is that why you’re always so critical of me
arctic walrus
we bully those whom we love
heavy coral
So basically, nothing to worry about cause its big minmaxing
Doomblade unholy still fine 
jaunty goblet
On M tarragrue I have an anima power that reduces energy costs by 30% - think that pushes Obedience ahead of Doomblade?
balmy condor
Doomblade unholy still fine <:zdrajkitku:751400679813152778>
Yeah it’s something you’d consider in like 2 months when you’re trying to parse and have a million cinders burning a hole into your bags
jaunty goblet
I have -30% energy cost, +12% haste, erratic howler, potent acid gland, was planning on going as sub but seemed like good assassination powers
arctic walrus
dawg if you are this down bad trying to min max tarra powers it might be time to reconsider guilds
heavy coral
Yeah it’s something you’d consider in like 2 months when you’re trying to parse ...
Welp, some freshness to the spec i see, always a good thing to have some fun after progression 
cobalt pelican
invest now
be a trendsetter
it's not because i don't have a helmet yet
it's because i'm cool
📈
balmy condor
I would like to see some tiny toxic blade gaming <:PU_PeepoNotBad:58591663414575...
Yeah can’t help you there 
heavy coral
slow marsh
any 262 dashing gamers or what
reef axle
So dashing on feet?
slow marsh
back
reef axle
Ahh always back lol
slow marsh
yes always back
reef axle
Ok I gotta sim this but I wonder if lfr dom piece will out sim my 226 if it gives me the dom set 🤔
cobalt pelican
don't really need to sim if you have no active set the answer is yes
balmy condor
Yeh
Sets are way important
A full set of LFR dom sockets would win against vault items
reef axle
Kinda sad but makes sense, will feel weird having 213 piece but I can see why lol
strange python
I want shrouded suff back :(
strange python
Doomblade unholy still fine <:zdrajkitku:751400679813152778>
Fine? Is it not the bis? Last I checked most top logs were using doomblade still
slow marsh
Pins
strange python
I know what pins say lol. But sims don't translate to reality in all situations.
slow marsh
K
balmy condor
K
spice spire
Potassium
balmy condor
Copium
zinc frost
Going back to venthyr bois, had enough of these bone spike bugs.
balmy condor
reef axle
abstract venture
Was about to upgrade my Unholy to foreboding.. Frosties here i come, Dashing will be next reset
strange python
You got another full week till fatal flaw btw
abstract venture
well, gunna use my resources from now
abstract venture
Eyyy u know it.
obtuse robin
new pin
versed mica
Is obedience still better for multitarget than dashing?
manic pebble
Is obedience still better for multitarget than dashing?
yes
fathom swift
wtf is that frost set lmao
jovial spear
How would you guys rate the trinkets from SOD? Which ones are worth getting?
gusty mirage
Guardian trinket
KT trinket
rest kinda dookie
not macabre sheet music dookie
but still pretty meh
obtuse robin
must be insane amounts of crit needed cuz i can get 36 % and and unholy still beats frost
jovial spear
aight! Thought the one from Painsmith could have some potential in add-fights or in M+ tho
gusty mirage
is the painsmith one the thingy that makes you run around collecting crit orbs or whatever?
balmy condor
How would you guys rate the trinkets from SOD? Which ones are worth getting?
the only really good one I would consider the fusion amp from guardian
the rest all have better counterparts from dungeons
balmy condor
wtf is that frost set lmao
nonsense is what it is
reef axle
Couldn’t see the sub sims but does this high end scoundrel rival subs st?
jovial spear
the only really good one I would consider the fusion amp from guardian
Thanks for the reply 🙂
jovial spear
❤️
silver osprey
anyone know that happens when you shadowstep on the eye
gusty mirage
I'm a slave to the people
balmy condor
anyone know that happens when you shadowstep on the eye
slightly to the left, yes you should use it
get used to it
modern heart
you spawn on the front left of it
silver osprey
ok ty
balmy condor
you can step every single beam
gusty mirage
@balmy condor what happens when I shadowstep to your heart?
modern heart
asking the real questions
copper sundial
no path available
gusty mirage
no path available
modern heart
obtuse robin
is there a way to see what gear the new sim is using
obtuse robin
ty
balmy condor
is there a way to see what gear the new sim is using
will say though, it's very not interesting, nor useful
it's just giga item level and sylv daggers and sockets and all that
basically exactly what you'd imagine it be
obtuse robin
i just wanna see how much crit
balmy condor
its around 40%
modern heart
me looking at simcraft gear and trying to copy it ingame
cobalt pelican
invest in mydas talisman 2
balmy condor
me looking at simcraft gear and trying to copy it ingame <:FEelsBadMan:535263757...
yo this you? 
balmy condor
whispyr feeling saucy tonight
don't you have a basement to pump water out of or something
mind ya business
modern heart
gusty mirage
Can I report someone to FEMA for bullying me?
strange python
anyone know that happens when you shadowstep on the eye
if u wanna make your raid shit themselves, jump off the edge and step back up 
silver osprey
dude i said watch this in discord and my rl said he was gonna kick me if i inted
modern heart
silver osprey
and i jumped off and stepped and he said fuck you
yall made my life so much easier i love this shadowstep trick for the beams
jovial spear
Is it worth replacing a 252 chest with a 233 chest with dom socket on it when I get the third socket piece to unlock unholy bonus?
halcyon zealot
Is it worth replacing a 252 chest with a 233 chest with dom socket on it when I ...
almost certainly yes
jovial spear
Thanks 🙂
narrow ravine
odd, in my sims, im not seeing much gains at all from sylv daggers, does it require a specific setup to get value out of them?
narrow ravine
I mean im seeing very little to no gains by adding one to my sims
balmy condor
did you enchant it
narrow ravine
one sim showed lower dps by switching to two Edge of Night, vs my dumpster gear
yes
balmy condor
link the sim
narrow ravine
no unholy bonus yet
gained less than 100 dps with heroic daggers and lost dps with normal daggers
I see I used the wrong ilevel for heroic ones but still thought the normal ones would be an upgrade
placid dawn
imagine killing sylvanas 8 times and no dagger
balmy condor
25dps for that proc
it doesn't have stats
placid dawn
gg blizzard
gusty mirage
imagine killing sylvanas 8 times and no dagger
can't relate
balmy condor
higher sylv daggers are worth more
cobalt pelican
8 times isn't.. a lot
you're way below what you should expect to get a specific item lol
strange python
Whispyr, does mastery become a non-trash stat with the scoundrel build?
narrow ravine
my bud tried to get his kid to play wow, we got them geared up did a raid full clear, then his kid said that was way fun, what are we doing next week?
his dad said the same thing, the kid said thats fucking stupid and quit
hahah
anyway thanks for taking a look Whispyr, I wont kill myself trying to get the normal dagger at least
balmy condor
yeh no worries
balmy condor
Whispyr, does mastery become a non-trash stat with the scoundrel build?
nope, still dog
slightly better, but not really much
slow marsh
Yeah still bad
Not noticable at all
But what is noticable I've found
Is that it seems to be much smoother with bs ds using dashing.
cerulean nest
slightly better, but not really much
is this new setup good enough now/high ilvl that people are actually considering rebuilding?
inb4 sim yourself
balmy condor
I don't think most people care atm
slow marsh
This week's raid felt way better with flag openers and stuff. Found myself hitting 27-29 and even 30 stacks multiple times
cerulean nest
I don't think most people care atm
i sorta figured, especially with how much weve all invested in other things
at least for now
slow marsh
Which doesn't super matter in the long run but feels good for sure
slow marsh
is this new setup good enough now/high ilvl that people are actually considering...
I wouldn't rebuild
If you already have high UH shards then just keep it
cobalt pelican
if you're sitting comfy on unholy and r6 doomblade just keep on truckin
slow marsh
Ye
cerulean nest
yeah thats where im at
slow marsh
Also for dual spec it doesn't matter since both other specs want UH too
I've heard here and there about outlaw frost but UH ghostly seems to be the play
narrow ravine
necro doomblade just waiting for the SBS bugs to get fixed
before deciding if I want to switch
cobalt pelican
surely you change while the bugs are there and then decide if you want to go back
since it might be 200 years till sbs gets fixed
slow marsh
Tru
drifting cosmos
hi guys, in a m+ setting, if you going into a boss with snd, do you just gar-mut-flag-rup-vend-mut-shiv-env?
trying to figure out when to use flag
obtuse robin
the outlaw pin says frost for outlaw st is bis
so it seems for st only sub is not benefiting from frost
loud brook
for the sin opener with subterfuge, why is it not worth going garrote mutilate garrote for the first 3 globals?
arctic hare
iirc, the more garrotes you put out the more smooth your rotation is
torn atlas
for the sin opener with subterfuge, why is it not worth going garrote mutilate g...
If it's multi target you want all three, if it's single target you want to get snd up.
cobalt pelican
5.4 extra seconds of subterfuge only empowered garrote isn't really.. worth that much
torn atlas
If it's single target your likely better off with MA talent instead of Subt
stone gate
Yo my oh is ilvl 187 rn, how can I get smth higher?
torn atlas
Unless in a key.
stone gate
is my best bet just m+?
loud brook
for sure. I run MA for raids. Just thinking about optimizing ST on bosses in M+
cobalt pelican
but conquest is probably your best bet regardless unless you can somehow get into 10-15 keys
stone gate
I can get into keys pretty easily (low rated ones) but not higher since im only ilvl 210
loud brook
you can also get korthia gear and upgrade it to 220 by tier 3 I think?
stone gate
isnt conquest pvp tho? idk if I can do that
stone gate
you can also get korthia gear and upgrade it to 220 by tier 3 I think?
ye but isnt it rng if I get the dagger or not
loud brook
oh yeah, 100%
stone gate
rip
cobalt pelican
if you can't pvp then korthian armaments are prolly 2nd best
loud brook
sometimes the brokers will straight up just give you one though for a bounty daily
cobalt pelican
cause if you're using 187 gear you aren't like
doing content that drops big stuff..
stone gate
Thats my lowest item
cause I just havent got a better one
Im almost done with SoD this week
and didnt get a dagger
sadge
loud brook
my rogue comrade in raid got the sylv dagger and the fatescribe helm and I am mega jelly
slow marsh
for sure. I run MA for raids. Just thinking about optimizing ST on bosses in M+
You would vanish garrote when your first one is falling which should also be about the time you're finishing flag
For m+ st
stone gate
I guess I should wait until I get a korthia dagger in my dailies then
or maybe I get it from vault
I have like 4 of the vault things unlocked
might get lucky
slow marsh
Do m2s and you can start getting rating and gear at the same time
Nobody cares about ilevel for m2s
Or they shouldn't
stone gate
Yeah im doing a lot of m2s and 3s but I jsut havent got a dagger
loud brook
or even m0s they give 210 gear
stone gate
might be bad luck idk
cobalt pelican
not much else to say
if you've done the raid on whatever you can get into, tazavesh on whatever you can get into, refuse to pvp, haven't got one from korthian armaments and haven't got one from keys you can get into
just.. go agane
slow marsh
Ye that's why people pvp for weapons since it's guaranteed
stone gate
I dont refuse to pvp but am I not just too weak for it
loud brook
if you have friendly with death's advance you can buy benthic gear for 2k stygia per chancew
cobalt pelican
which is like
slow marsh
Doesn't matter you can get conq for losing
cobalt pelican
do random bgs lol
cobalt pelican
yes
cobalt pelican
pick up the weeklies by the vendor
do the skirmish weekly, do the random bg weekly, join some shitty bgs and do the wintergrasp weekly or w/e
stone gate
how long do you reckon it would take to get 900?
cobalt pelican
idk, a bit? if you can't find someone else who wants to cap in 2s or something bgs are kinda slow
stone gate
ah ill see tomorrow I guess
is there a guide to pvp somewhere?
im assuming theres a combo or smth
loud brook
prolly wanna go sub for pvp. they can delete people
also the wowhead guides have pvp versions I think
stone gate
sub > sin in pvp?
slow marsh
Go read a guide maybe idk
stone gate
aight
stone gate
thx
strange python
my rogue comrade in raid got the sylv dagger and the fatescribe helm and I am me...
I got the Fatescribe helm yesterday too but in normal, don't even have a shard to put into 😄
loud brook
im one shard and a helm away from my unholy bonus
untold verge
Guys what about /cancelaura Chaos Bane on 5 stack to lineup with vendetta + flag?
loud brook
then I can finally start playing the game
untold verge
U will get 15 stack and proc in 2 min and not on 1:20 min with out /cancelaura
slow marsh
Not worth
astral agate
im struggling to think why doomblade is best for m+ now
are we suppose to weave it muts now?
in*
hollow escarp
how is it better?
plain thistle
its not better
mental trout
aye finally killed KT Heroic on the 16th try <(**<) no loot though =/. only got a 82 parse, how many of y'all killed sylvanas? we only got one pull in on her before raid was over and got to phase two pretty easy.. such a underwhelming fight...
astral agate
how is it better?
ok i had the same thoughts i just saw alot of top io's running it , thanks
hollow escarp
it's probably just raider.io taking armory data
I have some keys that shows I've used pvp trinkets because I logged out with those
strange python
My 43% crit suddenly feels good
strange python
aye finally killed KT Heroic on the 16th try <(**<) no loot though =/. only got ...
I haven't even started heroic lol
cursive silo
aye finally killed KT Heroic on the 16th try <(**<) no loot though =/. only got ...
Yea the dps check is easy now but mistakes cost either a wype or a combat rez
echo geyser
is the frost + dashing build something u would run on every fight in current raid? @balmy condor similar to doomblade being fine for everything
balmy condor
is the frost + dashing build something u would run on every fight in current rai...
yes
echo geyser
very cool 
guess i am farming more torgy
this was all planned
upgraded obedience first
my doom is still r4
hollow escarp
I should try that now that I got all gems
also have a blank rank 4 cloak for dashing ready
hollow escarp
bought 4 cloaks for finality, obedience, doomblade and dashing
upgraded doomblade only so far
astral agate
I have some keys that shows I've used pvp trinkets because I logged out with tho...
ok so i assume still rocking zoldycks
if necro
hollow escarp
dashing doesn't look bad either
echo geyser
why does BS/Deeper get more value btw
tbh idk if i wanna play that
too slow for me
balmy condor
more crit opportunities, bigger envenoms
spiral warren
ok so i assume still rocking zoldycks
Pick whatever legendary suits your group best. I switch between Zoldycks and Doomblade depending on how much single target and AoE damage my team has.
echo geyser
gonna see diff on ep vig vs bs/deep
hollow escarp
guardian is a good fight to compare those 2 talent choices
I forgot to swap from ep/vigor on my hc run yesterday but the difference isn't big anyway
echo geyser
just cant stand the slowness
hollow escarp
it takes a while to get used to
I was a BS/DS fan until I played EP/Vigor too much
echo geyser
outlaw scars u when ur used to the energy regen and having ar up a lot
echo geyser
deeper?
loud brook
Deeper strategm is only a .7% dps upgrade for me, so it's not worth the headache cause I hate the spiky playstyle too
hollow escarp
echo geyser
only got 0.8% gain from this build with current gear
not enough crit i suppose
something to aim for later i guess
echo geyser
oh thats bad
hollow escarp
I have big crit vers rings, but no good crit haste ones 
balmy condor
I think it has something to do with envenom uptimes
hollow escarp
so 226 from nathria sim better
balmy condor
but I'm not sure why exactly
either way
yeh
shits whack
super inconsistent
I hate it
some people are like "wow instantly 1% gain" and other people are like "wow 1% loss this is dogshit why did you make a pin"
hollow escarp
on pure st is not that bad
hollow escarp
ask for an external haste buff 
hollow escarp
covenants helped with that, am I right?
echo geyser
raven stratus
whats best lego for ass?
cobalt gyro
7% but its also including a soulbind change
echo geyser
hollow escarp
kinda curious how the dashing frost build works for necro
echo geyser
heirmir got some crit at least
hollow escarp
ye
cobalt gyro
i dont even have the frost set, either
echo geyser
next week only theo gets the last trait 
balmy condor
but who plays blood?
death knight tank mains I assume
anyways
don't let this dashing thing distract from the things that actually matter
hollow escarp
like upgrading Dyz to rank 5?
echo geyser
rancid warren
really like the dashing build discovery tho, it utilizes the envenom buff and makes sin a less ‘braindead spec’ than just opting for doomblades
Just like double dose in BfA
civic trellis
like upgrading Dyz to rank 5?
Well, i upgraded bek 😄
hollow escarp
I got rank 3 unholy now, and I will never have to upgrade Dyz again at least
civic trellis
Yeah at least is an unholy shard
torn atlas
Well that's not what I was meant to reply too.
rancid warren
!pb
prisma monolithBOT
Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss
rancid warren
If they fix poision bug, probably gap between dashing and obe will become more bigger; dunno when they’ll fix it
hollow escarp
not before they start working again
balmy condor
it took them a full 2 months the last time
rancid warren
the envenom pandemic one?
wait did pandemic affect envenom buff?
fleet anchor
death knight tank mains I assume
People who have blood and don't have anything else. 🤣
Another note about the Frost set
muted cove
People who have blood and don't have anything else. 🤣
what if blood sims higher for me than frost and unholy 😦
fleet anchor
Until I see logs fully confirming everything works, I'm gonna assume Frost is still either slightly to moderately to possibly massively buggy as fuck
Reports are still that Frost bonuses are potentially inconsistent in very odd ways
echo geyser
fleet anchor
Hotfixes said they fixed some of them this week but haven't really seen many sustained logs proving it is working as expected
They reason it theoretically works best with something like Dashing is that the cap on the Frost set is relatively low and Assassination is one of the few specs that has small enough damage events to not run afoul of the cap
That's basically the main reason most specs don't consider Frost
fathom swift
the cap is per hit right
fleet anchor
Yes
fathom swift
rather than per 20s or w.e
fleet anchor
So unless they raise the the cap it'll never be good for Sub, for example
Sub crits are too big
Just ends up going to waste
Dashing gives a lot of tiny crits via poisons so it maximizes the benefit
balmy condor
yeh
fathom swift
such a weird design
fleet anchor
It is 100% a very weird design
I assume they were concerned about broken Frost Mage things
But the cap is way too low
balmy condor
I kinda saw this coming in logs a while ago but then I had someone ask about it and bloodmallet saying frost is very high kinda didn't help
so eventually I'm like
aight
fleet anchor
I could possibly see them changing the cap at some point
balmy condor
I guess
I will post
because I assume this is just how it works now
mythic race pretty much over
no announced changes yet
fleet anchor
Well this was irrelevant week one because the frost bonus barely even worked for melee at all
I'm still skeptical it is working right, but it's something on my list to check lol
fathom swift
is there any spec other than sin that would even have damage events that frequently to make it worth consideration?
fleet anchor
I got access to frost set myself yesterday (thanks Normal!) so I can give it a shot at testing
But of course it's annoying af to test sets
due to no dummies
hollow escarp
call out for turnips
fleet anchor
Turnips don't log correctly
Ok for in-game testing but the combat logs for Turnips are borked
fathom swift
blizzard and making life difficult for tcers name a more iconic duo
fleet anchor
I'll probably just run logs while questing in Korthia tomorrow
And just equip the set to test
hollow escarp
you could do torghast
fleet anchor
As much as it pains me not to use Blood since it's op af for questing lol
nimble tartan
ive vowed never to switch gems cause ive seen to many friends destroy gems im spooked
fleet anchor
It's super awkward and I hate it
hollow escarp
well, there's a reason we have an item to unsocket gems
I really never thought people will have this issue and destroy gems
fleet anchor
Even that doesn't always work
fathom swift
yeah the reason is the system is very poorly designed
fleet anchor
I've heard reports on day one that if your inventory was full you lost the gem (think they fixed that)
hollow escarp
it works if you don't have the gear piece open
fleet anchor
And also if you get disconnected when you unsocket the gem you also lose it 😛
nimble tartan
they lack the technology, they never even give u the gem back too if u ticket
humble ginkgo
so they can refund me an item I vendored 2 months ago
but cant refund a gem that poofed
shy dust
is there any spec other than sin that would even have damage events that frequen...
Outlaw
fleet anchor
Also I have no clue why they made Winds of Winter able to crit itself other than adding crazy variance lol
Do enjoy a nice high variance double dip
fathom swift
Outlaw
thats probably less about the damage events and more about the extra crit from bte tho right
proven saddle
is it also double-dipping on vers?
fallow otter
@balmy condor you been getting your phial pharm on? How's that st sim lookin
fleet anchor
is it also double-dipping on vers?
Has the disable player modifiers flag so I don't think Vers will affect it
Anyway I'm gonna double check all the numbers probably
slow marsh
I kinda saw this coming in logs a while ago but then I had someone ask about it ...
was i the someone or am i chopped liver
balmy condor
was i the someone or am i chopped liver
well someone else was asking about dashing but you were the catalyst for this
slow marsh
good it is my pleasure to be deemed the catalyst for all this mess
shy dust
Until I see logs fully confirming everything works, I'm gonna assume Frost is st...
Do you still need logs?
fleet anchor
Logs would be helpful because some of the ones I found were before the hotfixes
So it's hard to say
balmy condor
inb4 koji comes back in a week and says "yeah btw frost is oversimming by like 90% it's really terrible"
north basin
Damn just crafted 262 doomblade and upgraded 3 times unholy set, aaargh
fleet anchor
I mean it's certainly possible given the jank involved
balmy condor
and I have to make a pin for the pin saying that the pin was wrong
slow marsh
I mean if that's the case then good
balmy condor
slow marsh
Blood is weird tho I sim higher with EP / DS currently with bloood
balmy condor
something something overused indy company joke that isn't funny anymore
fleet anchor
I mean Blood shouldn't really scale with anything we do, it's just passive damage
Think it's more that it doesn't scale the same as Unholy, rather than anything special with Blood
fleet anchor
This is outlaw though
Are those your logs?
slow marsh
Yeah idk I just know whisp and I are both stumped at why I sim higher with EP DS and lower with BS but it doesn't really matter cuz it'll change next week anyways
slow marsh
Damn 132k frost dam
eager river
me
slow marsh
It him
eager river
it also heals a buttload
shy dust
Are those your logs?
No that’s @eager river
eager river
very poggers
heals easily more than our snd conduit
granted its just absorb shields
and not hp
hollow escarp
that guardian kill timer was like 17 sec too short
fleet anchor
So I dunno, I'm pretty sure Winds of Winter is still bugged to some degree or another but no idea exactly how because it's impossible to diagnose easily without super controlled testing
Like mine says 6% damage up to a cap of 180
Logged some Torghast
Took all the crits between two 20s ticks
Applied min(0, damage*0.06)
Amount is 3295
slow marsh
I mean given shadowforce's logs his winds did more dam than flag and he has like no crit
fleet anchor
Got a crit of 5k
So base damage of 2.5k
So literally missing 25% damage
vs what I expect
88 / 0.06 = 1466, exactly what my Mutilate did. And seemed to totally ignore the melee crit for 806
thin trout
you should test it on the final boss of the floro tbh
just stealth through
mawrats kinda die fast
fleet anchor
This is supposed to be a controlled test on purpose I literally just used one ability
thin trout
u did overkill, so thatmight make it weird
fleet anchor
Well the overkill damage is the Mutilate and the Mutilate matches the total amount correctly, hit+melee wouldn't
My guess is that it's bugged with simultaneous events
balmy condor
My guess is that it's bugged with simultaneous events
icd of like 200ms?
fleet anchor
Other times it seemed fine so honestly don't know
Will test more but something seems to not work about it, just not quite sure what yet
slow marsh
Ty Koji
proven saddle
I'm seeing something similar in Shadowforce's log. Unless I'm missing something, it looks like the first Winds proc should've crit for 30.9k, but instead crit for 20.5k
Second proc should've crit for 14.3k, but in the log it shows it crit for 13.5k
fleet anchor
Sometimes it's seeming totally fine
So I can't quite narrow it down yet
Really obnoxious to test though I must say
fleet anchor
Yes, although technically easier to look at the absorb since it can have partial values
slow marsh
I would try to help but I don't have frost set yet
Can you just go to floor 1 and auto attack something for 20 sec and see what happens? Like maybe it has to live the full 20 to get a good read
fleet anchor
One possible thought is that it's grabbing base damage and ignoring modifiers (e.g. Vendetta, EP, etc.) which I suppose could be possible, but I'd really need to test more and this is pretty annoying to test
slow marsh
If you aren't already trying that. I mean you're the pro
fleet anchor
Usually I'm just waiting until a proc then attacking once or twice and waiting 20s
slow marsh
Yeah I see how that is really annoying
proven saddle
So I'm not 100% sure on this yet, but if I excluded all proc-based sources (phantom fire, trinkets, flagellation, pox, etc.) in Shadowforce's log on the first 2 Winds of Winter, then the numbers were very close on both.
Which would explain the larger discrepancy on the first one when everything gets popped on the pull.
dawn ivy
shadowcore
proven saddle
whoops, had that on the brain since that was another event I had to filter out
slow marsh
Can't we just ask shadowforce for a simc profile and run it then compare the winds of winter damage to see if it's roughly equivalent ?
fleet anchor
Ok it definitely ignores at least trinkets like Fusion Amplifier and such
fleet anchor
Yeah background procs and stuff seem to not trigger it which has some very odd side effects
Like I was testing with Shuriken Tornado and Black Powder with my back turned because I know Tornado and BP Shadow hits don't "proc" things typically
Which means a lot of that damage isn't counted
I did 4.6k worth of crits which should have been 280ish damage and only got an 84 proc
Since these flags are very inconsistently applied, it's hard to know exactly which ones it would apply to.
But I'll see if I can pass it along to get reported because this doesn't seem right tbh
proven saddle
Yeah, after I went through that entire Guardian log, it didn't seem to count anything that wasn't a class ability
fleet anchor
At the moment I can't really recommend using Frost until these issues get resolved, it's too hard to know what it might effect
proven saddle
So weapon enchants (both permanent and temporary), phantom fire, weapon procs
fleet anchor
Like reasonable to assume stuff like Doomblade could be effected or maybe things like Poison Bomb, would really have to individually check everything
SBS procs from Sudden Fractures, etc.
pseudo pilot
Anyone kill mythic nerzhul, do you know if picked, and you're suppose to displace, you have to face the platform to safely shadowstep to the 2nd malevolence debuff guy on the inner?
limber lion
Anyone kill mythic nerzhul, do you know if picked, and you're suppose to displac...
Yes, just face each other as if you were kissing
:)
pseudo pilot
ok ya i died like 2x when i was facing my back towards the whole raid as the outer person and i couldnt shadowstep
good thing i didnt get chosen on our kill 🙂
dawn ivy
i swapped to quick decisions so my step would never be out of range
pseudo pilot
didnt work for me, i still had quick deicision
dawn ivy
not sure if it ever gave me an extra charge of step or anything but it felt nice
pseudo pilot
only time it worked when we face eachotehr
dawn ivy
i always faced out, no issue
hollow river
Talking about the mass dispel strat?
pseudo pilot
yuea
dawn ivy
yeah its so much easier honestly
pseudo pilot
@dawn ivy you would shadow step to the inner person?
proven saddle
Yeah background procs and stuff seem to not trigger it which has some very odd s...
The estimates with all non rogue-specific procs get pretty close to the actual values from that Guardian log, but it looks like I'm excluding something that does count towards the Winds of Winter as my estimates are just slightly lower in every instance except one.
dawn ivy
i stepped to the boss
dawn ivy
boss needs to be near you
pseudo pilot
at least for us
hollow river
I usually just stay on boss when I’m not picked for mechanic
dawn ivy
or your tank is fucking up
hollow river
And step boss
dawn ivy
boss should never be away from the group enough to not step to
pseudo pilot
^
fleet anchor
The estimates with all non rogue-specific procs get pretty close to the actual v...
Honestly it will just depend on the specific flags of the spells
Some procs trigger things just fine
limber lion
Almost every class has some way to do it
pseudo pilot
@limber lion have you had sucess stepping to your partner facing outwards
i got picked 3 times tonight, only one worked was when I was facing in
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> have you had sucess stepping to your partner facing outwa...
No, because I never face outward
Always inward
The point is that both dispell boys just look at each other
Inner looks out, outer looks in
It's literally rng which way you get shot to
hollow river
I could understand maybe warrior with leap
limber lion
No reason not to look at the person you're going to step
hollow river
But I don’t see how all other classes could do it
Unless you can immune right before the dispell goes out
pseudo pilot
@limber lion is it only rng for the outer person
limber lion
But I don’t see how all other classes could do it
Yeh most classes use immune, DH uses Glide, Hunter backdrops etc
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> is it only rng for the outer person
No, for both
Mass Dispel is rng every time after the hotfix that they did
pseudo pilot
so theres a scenario where you both get rektd
pseudo pilot
so one person will always be pushed towards the platform?
marble hemlock
The point is that both dispell boys just look at each other
You shouldn't do that
just gets you knocked off the platform instantly with very little time to step
limber lion
just gets you knocked off the platform instantly with very little time to step
We did that every time and never failed the mechanic.
But everyone has their own tactics, so doesn't matter
marble hemlock
yeah i mean, its still sketchy. i got knocked off twice due to being the one on the far side and not being able to step before im over the edge and get the "no path available" shit
i just turn by 90°
so i dont look towards or away from the boss
that way you get knocked towards your back
and have more time before youre actually off the platform
i.e.
i found that to be the safest way
limber lion
Yeh, I just use the MD weak aura and never had issues. But I've heard of people having problems with it if you're planted on the very very edge
marble hemlock
ye, the closer youre to the edge the worse it is obviously
its mostly due to step not working anymore
the moment youre over the edge, even if someone is i nrange
limber lion
Yeh, that does look pretty decent tbh
@pseudo pilot just do what Seli is showing here if you're lacking consistency
Looks to be much safer
minor anchor
The estimates with all non rogue-specific procs get pretty close to the actual v...
I assume current sims are including non rogue damage spells?
violet hollow
@marble hemlock hey can i send u my logs from yesterday to be checked by u for mistakes that i make? i really think i could do better 😄
marble hemlock
Dont really have time for log analysis, sorry. But I'm sure some people in this very channel would be happy to help 
violet hollow
hehe ok
cinder geode
is there a certain amount of haste needed for sin to feel "good"? I got unlucky with my gear and only have 9% haste how much will it hurt?
pseudo pilot
tyyy
left plaza
is there a certain amount of haste needed for sin to feel "good"? I got unlucky ...
i think around 20%/24%
violet hollow
im at 30%, which seems like a breakpoint where crit/vers/mastery scales better for me
balmy condor
is there a certain amount of haste needed for sin to feel "good"? I got unlucky ...
it won't ever "feel good"
haste barely speeds up the spec
and when it speeds up too much, you take talents to slow it down again
agile geode
Do you think SBS bug make necrolord unplayable or still playable?
I dont know how to value
balmy condor
it's pretty unplayable atm in my opinion, but it works on single target
but so much shit in the raid doesn't give resets
agile geode
I Hope It Will get fixed soon
But nowadays blizz seems like a bit "busy"
@marble hemlock pump my morale
I would like to stay necro
rancid warren
But nowadays blizz seems like a bit "busy"
its their karma
crystal blaze
Just saw the thing about frost set + dashing, guess we'll not be able to test it before 3-4 weeks
balmy condor
Just saw the thing about frost set + dashing, guess we'll not be able to test it...
the effect is also kinda janky
not sure if it's intended or simming entirely correctly
marble hemlock
I would like to stay necro
idk, necro is still fine, its just way more frustrating to play now
the st loss isnt that big
its just annoying to not get the proper amount of CP
or losing 2 charges when you accidentally SBS the same add twice before it dies
crystal blaze
the effect is also kinda janky
I'll stack my stygian ember before upgrading my UH to rank 5 just in case
balmy condor
best course of action tbh
violet hollow
just upgraded it yesterday 😄 feelsbad
gloomy rose
dont feel bad, you are still fine
violet hollow
im super fine with sin atm 😄