assassination

[gray pond]

Crit+vers

[raven vapor]

cheers

[crystal blaze]

I failed and craft my obedience back for sub with crit/haste stat, it's a 7 dps loss against a crit/vers one

[rocky pecan]

7 dps loss with youur actual stats all ppl dont loose / win same amount

[fleet anchor]

I mean it was always close. It was only 1% behind then I found optimizations for SBS with Tornado usage. Generally any time builds or specs are within 1-2% it’s nothing that could be considered “stable.” Always potential to find gains of that size.

[alpine latch]

I wonder if Sub is going to overtake Sin for raid or Outlaw for m+

[fleet anchor]

Same with people being surprised that Doomblade and Obedience flip flop only being 0.4% apart lol

Like that is a very tiny margin

Generally speaking players won’t really be able to see much real world difference between sub-1% differences

It’s a great cleave fight for a good funnel spec. And Rogues are probably top 3 overall dps right now in general anyway.

[fallen arch]

Isn’t it doing both pretty soon

[fleet anchor]

Sub still limited by people being willing to play it

[fallen arch]

Altho Outlaw still has gouge and sin will still have more cleave for raid

[fleet anchor]

I wouldn’t really say it’s substantially better than Assassination for M+ though

They are different flavors of the same thing

[fallen arch]

It does more dam

[alpine latch]

In theory, it should have done it this reset but it didn't.

[fleet anchor]

I don’t actually think it does based on personal experience for M+

[fallen arch]

I at least can’t compete with a good sub rogue

[fleet anchor]

My results with CT Assassination vs Tornado Sub were extremely similar

[hollow talon]

i played both sub and outlaw in m+ and sub feels a lot better where its either just 1 target or a ton of targets

[fallen arch]

Oh I pull better numbers with sin too

[hollow talon]

but like 2-3 target cleave outlaw pumps much harder

[frosty bridge]

Hard agree

[hollow talon]

so it depends on the dungeon

[frosty bridge]

But having small packs that often ughh

[hollow talon]

like TOP and stuff i'd say outlaw is prob better

[frosty bridge]

Feels terriiiiiible

[fallen arch]

Small packs sin shines

[fleet anchor]

Outlaw and Assassination will win at 2-3T over Sub easily

[hollow river]

Yeah sub already does higher damage in ST

[frosty bridge]

I think Sub is better in mists

[fallen arch]

3-5 is so good for sin

[frosty bridge]

like, mists is so good for sub imo

[hollow talon]

but ST sub is really good

[hollow river]

I don’t like sub in mists

[frosty bridge]

If you can double all the time in the maze

[hollow talon]

although outlaw single target as venthyr waas surprisingly okay

[fleet anchor]

The problem with sub imo

Is yes it does really good sustained large AoE

[hollow river]

Sub in nw, DoS , halls and SD

[fleet anchor]

But

[hollow talon]

like on the mini bosses i was hitting like 9k for the first 50% of the miniboss HP

[fleet anchor]

If your tank is pulling big

[hollow river]

The cleave sucks

[fleet anchor]

It’s not sustained

[fallen arch]

Magic words ‘first 50%’

[fleet anchor]

Because DKs and WWs will destroy it anyway

[frosty bridge]

Yeah, that is kinda true

Outlaw will surely stay king in high keys

[fleet anchor]

Like my experience with massive pulls was “yay I’m doing 20k on Sub”

[hollow river]

Don’t forget Demon Hunter

[fleet anchor]

“Oh the DK is doing 80k”

[gusty mirage]

Ran a 19 dps with a ww monk who peaked at 42k for a large ass pull in ardenweald

Like bruh

What

[fleet anchor]

“Oh the WW is doing 120k”

[fallen arch]

I roll with the wrong people

[frosty bridge]

WW is insane right now

[fleet anchor]

🤣

[fallen arch]

Give me a monk like that

[frosty bridge]

Like, it's so stupid, even with Crane being capped to 6 or something

[gusty mirage]

I was like I’m for SURE pumping

Look at the meters

And then I’m like

[hollow talon]

better than outlaw lol

[fallen arch]

Well the thing is with all those classes

They pop for a few seconds

[hollow river]

Well there it is folks, from the big boys themselves. Quit rogue play something else

[hollow talon]

outlaw does the same damage whether its 30 targets or 3 targets basically for me

[gusty mirage]

I was doing 17k feeling proud of myself

Lmao

[fallen arch]

But in the end I almost always do more dps end of run

[fleet anchor]

Yeah but tanks can only survive huge pulls if you can pop the pack during CDs

So the case about sustained large AoE doesn’t really happen much

[frosty bridge]

Bear tank with the Polearm with 3 min on use

where they turn into that angel thing

[hollow river]

Fire mages still tearing up high keys

[frosty bridge]

Lmfaooo, 30k dps easily on big packs with incarn

[fleet anchor]

Incarn is busted

[gusty mirage]

Seems balanced

[frosty bridge]

Yeah, and the weapon is also quite insane it seems

and lines up with incarn

[gusty mirage]

and they can face tank all of it thanks to the thrash leggo

[hollow river]

I’m just gonna raid log on my rogue and level up something that actually blasts

[hollow talon]

the fire mage nerfs were greatly overestimated

they still pump

[hollow river]

What blasts the hardest guys

[fleet anchor]

Guardian basically invincible with incarn for infinite targets 😄

[fallen arch]

Yes

[hollow talon]

and they got some buffs last week too

[fallen arch]

And they got buffed again already

[hollow talon]

have u seen RWF

boomkin or bust

[hollow river]

For keys

[gusty mirage]

Every 3 min just pull the universe as a bear Druid

[hollow river]

Not raid

I’m gonna raid on my rogue

[frosty bridge]

Literally unkillable during incarn

With a fire mage and ele shaman pack dies quick enough

[fallen arch]

Then go WW

[gusty mirage]

Just go ele sham

[hollow river]

Ww/DH/ele shaman/mage/boomkin what blasts keys hardest

[gusty mirage]

Get the earthquake leggo and afk to 6k overall

[hollow river]

I see ww and DH tearing it up but which is better

[frosty bridge]

Fire mage/ele - boomkin - WW/DH imo

[fleet anchor]

Lots of specs have better burst AoE than Rogue so I think that’s the weakness that Sub doesn’t quite shore up either.

Rogue still mostly a sustain class

[hollow river]

I afk 6k overall as rogue

[fleet anchor]

For AoE

[gusty mirage]

Nah fam you gotta push buttons. You ain’t melee swinging for 6k

[hollow river]

I want to pump

[gusty mirage]

Shaman pushes earth ele and afks and does 6k overall

[fallen arch]

Then l2p

Rogue has its spot

[hollow river]

Rogue don’t pump hard enough

[fleet anchor]

Plus side for Rogues is we can actually kill the new dudes or hard targets because all the other specs use their CDs for AoE 😛

[gusty mirage]

Rogue pumps just fine

[fallen arch]

Yes

[frosty bridge]

Yeah, more than fine

Especially ST

Which is where WW really struggles

[hollow river]

Nah

[fallen arch]

But ye if you want big numbers

[hollow river]

I’m trying to see over 50k on meter

[gusty mirage]

Oh

[fallen arch]

Fuck off and go play fire mage

[gusty mirage]

Then yeah play ww monk

[fleet anchor]

Fire Balance WW

[fallen arch]

And see 3k on tormentors

[hollow river]

Chill out dude

[hollow river]

Chill out dude

[fallen arch]

Hehe that was aimed at me

😄

[hollow river]

I’m on phone

.

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

That’s what I don’t get

[fleet anchor]

But yeah they do like 3k on Tormentors when I do 8k so I make up a lot 😛

[hollow river]

Everyone else’s boss damage is garbage

[fallen arch]

Exactly

[hollow river]

But no one invites rogue

[gusty mirage]

Very enjoyable in 18s and 19s when they take forever to die

[fallen arch]

Yeah because they burn thru their cds on packs

Everybody invites me

[gusty mirage]

And you’re doing 70% of the damage and they’re chilling with the tank

[hollow river]

I’ve pugged literally 1 15 this tier

[fleet anchor]

Hard to say much about inviting atm tbh

Scores are too fucky atm

[hollow river]

Honestly they are

[fallen arch]

Ppl look at last season score

[hollow river]

I’ve done 16s with guild

[gusty mirage]

Blizzard IO is actually hot garbage

Pugging is a nightmare now

[hollow river]

I have 2k last season score

[fallen arch]

Yeh its not great

[fallen arch]

Too low if you want to pug 15/16 atm in my experience

Because they can choose 20 ppl with 2.4k over you

[hollow river]

Not when I have 16s timed this tier

[fallen arch]

They dont care

[frosty bridge]

^

[fleet anchor]

New scoring system is ok in theory but I think it’s kinda lame in practice with the scores too compressed and the split between modes leading to a lot of variety based on quantity

[fallen arch]

They wanna see ppl with 20s last season

[hollow river]

That’s stupid

[fallen arch]

I dont make the rules

But that’s how it is

That’s why you make friends for m+

[fleet anchor]

Like I had one 16 or 17 we blasted and one 15 we sucked at

[fallen arch]

I hardly ever pug

[fleet anchor]

And the Blizz score is like

[hollow river]

I try

[fleet anchor]

6 different? lol

[hollow river]

I’ll be top dps and tanks won’t add when I ask

It’s sadge

[fleet anchor]

Also for some reason timing a 15 is worse score than miserably failing a 16 which I don’t get at all

[gusty mirage]

Yep. It makes no sense

[hollow river]

Lmao that’s stupid

Af

[gusty mirage]

It’s artificially inflated for sure

[fleet anchor]

Even if they were different the score difference is tiny

[fallen arch]

They have to tweak it

It makes no sense like this, agreed

[gusty mirage]

If it’s your lesser key between fort and tyran the difference between a timed 15 and an depleted 16 is like 1.2

[hollow river]

How are people liking frost mages now

[fleet anchor]

It definitely favors quantity of like “just run one of everything (x2 ofc) even if all the runs suck”

[hollow river]

They’re good on fort and tyran aren’t they

[storm nymph]

Is there a PI simc input?

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it pushes completion, but once peeps get KSM the completion crew is going away lmao

[fleet anchor]

Maybe by the end of the season it will be ok but right now it stinks for M+

[fallen arch]

I have the feeling they can either do huge dam or completely suck

[hollow river]

What u mean

[gusty mirage]

Tbf that’s like every mage ive ever played with

[fleet anchor]

Plus side for Rogues

Feels like more groups are back to wanting Shroud this season

[gusty mirage]

Right now people will finish a depleted key, even if it’s a disaster just to get the dungeon done for KSM

[hollow river]

I haven’t noticed this at all

[fallen arch]

Frost mage is one of the most played specs I think atm, so also most bad players

[gusty mirage]

Ele shaman suffering from this too

[fleet anchor]

All my guild groups I’ve been in have used Shroud during the routes. Last season I hardly used at all with the same people.

[fallen arch]

But it’s a gamble everytime you pug really

[gusty mirage]

The ele sham I run with finishes around 10k overall every dungeon. I’ve had ele shams pulling 5k overall with earthquake leggo

Like wat

[fleet anchor]

Most of the routes in S1 were too strict

Due to timing concerns

[fallen arch]

Ye same

[ornate lake]

Dps on aoe is all dependant on size pulls tbh

[hollow river]

Yep

[fallen arch]

not for sin really, that’s the good thing

[gusty mirage]

Halls is super tight now without pride

Makes me sad

[ornate lake]

No I was talking about the ele sham

[fallen arch]

Ye

Oh yes

[fading wigeon]

How are you guys opening in m+?

[hollow river]

3-4 garrotes from stealth

[ornate lake]

But I do second Koji's feeling. Last season shroud was never used. And this season like every run

[fallen arch]

I used it a ton last season

[hollow river]

Tab targeting and garrote each mob, then CT(SnD if it isn’t up)

Then FoK and spread ruptures

[fallen arch]

Every SD, every NW, every Halls

[fading wigeon]

Thanks man

[hollow river]

What are you guys on?

[fading wigeon]

So get CT up before ruptures?

[hollow river]

I shrouded almost all dungeons last season

[fallen arch]

Yes

[hollow river]

Yes and keep it up

[fading wigeon]

Awesome thanks

[hollow river]

I’ve shrouded 1 Halls this season

Shrouded all the time for s1

[fading wigeon]

I've shrouded halls, and PF so far

Shroud to first boss on PF

[hollow river]

Ye

[fading wigeon]

So agreeing with Koji, I've used shroud way more this season haha

[hollow river]

Dude there was a pug in LFG that said invis pot required and wouldn’t take me for shroud

[fading wigeon]

But mainly play outlaw in keys. Want to try sin

[hollow river]

Idk maybe you guys are pushing higher than I am

[fleet anchor]

I don’t feel like many tanks bothered having shroud routes at all for S1 because it had very little advantage on most maps.

[hollow river]

I’m doing 15s/16s haven’t touched shroud this season

[fleet anchor]

And rogue wasn’t super meta

[hollow river]

Idkkkk

Maybe not in pugs

[limber lion]

Idk I never shroud

Not this season

[fallen arch]

To be fair

[limber lion]

And not the last

[hollow river]

O.o

[fallen arch]

So many people fuck up when they’re shrouded

[limber lion]

HoA is the only dungeon I use shroud consistently on

[fleet anchor]

Shroud is definitely weaker than BfA in general

You basically have to pull a very high percentage of dungeons anyway

[odd hazel]

I don’t trust pugs to shroudnproperly

[fallen arch]

Yes, but on fort weeks in SD

[fleet anchor]

People do fuck it up a lot haha

[fallen arch]

Not having to kill that bridge pack is kinda nice

[fleet anchor]

Worse during Inspiring week since it makes mobs immune to Distract

RIP

People too used to invis

[modest apex]

Hey- looking to return to my rogue, will be mainly going 'Sin. If I understand the FAQ correctly, if I won't be doing any serious raiding and mostly M+ pugs, I'd be better off as Necro?

Or should I just stick with Venthyr all the way regardless?

[alpine latch]

If you're not doing anything serious, play whatever the heck you want

[frosty bridge]

This^ But yes, in that case Necro is PROBABLY your best covenant

and it's very fun to play, so go for it imo

[hollow talon]

i just look at last season score for the most part when inviting

invited a few people with good this season score that i regretted

[modest apex]

Yeah, I agree I should play whatever, just didn't want to be a liability or anything. Thanks- gonna try necro when I get to it.

[frosty bridge]

If you play well I promise you, you won't be

Necro is also the rarest covenant so that's a plus too

[winged basin]

Welcome to Ravenholdt

[high nacelle]

clicky

[modest apex]

Thank you!

[fallen arch]

Necro is lovely

Fleshcraft ❤️

[fleet anchor]

Necro is good in keys and find elsewhere. Behind Venthyr for ST but not a liability.

[fallen arch]

And

[fleet anchor]

I’d say Night Fae is probably far enough behind I can’t really recommend it

[modest apex]

Is 'Sin doable in keys also or do you guys switch to Outlaw for that?

[fleet anchor]

The other 3 probably close enough to not matter in general

[fallen arch]

It’s way better than doable

[thin gate]

guys for Enchants : Weapon 1 Celestial Guidance Weapon 2 Sinful Revelation and for chest Eternal Skirmish? and do i use 1 Shadowcore Oil 1 Sharpened Stone or 2 Shadowcore oils?

[placid dawn]

!oils

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[fallen arch]

But if you wanna push 20+ better off as outlaw

[fleet anchor]

All 3 Rogue specs are totally playable in M+ and your group probably won’t really notice

[modest apex]

Cool 😄

[regal crest]

are we taking volcanic or necrotic anima power?

[fleet anchor]

The minor advantage to Sub or Outlaw is more frequent CC

[fallen arch]

Necrotic

[fleet anchor]

Sub has Cheap Shot all the time

[fallen arch]

Let range take volcanic

[fleet anchor]

Outlaw has Gouge

Assassination is a bit weaker there but that’s about the only downside

[modest apex]

oic

[thin gate]

do u know if 2x shadowcore oil works?

[fleet anchor]

Yeah it’s fine

[fallen arch]

We have the silences from gar tho 😛

It’s not nothing

[gusty mirage]

And the DR

[hollow river]

Wish I didn’t have to farm swords to play outlaw

[gusty mirage]

From iron wire

[fallen arch]

Ye

[hollow river]

Or slow weapons w.e

[gusty mirage]

Iron wire is actually super underrated IMO

[hollow river]

Yeah you can pull around iron wire

Almost no point tho in pugs

They don’t know it exists

[nova gate]

Iron Wire FTW. Been using it for a long time now. Alas. NoTrick said the magic words. ^ Not many people notices it besides your group of pals.

[hollow river]

Yep

[fleet anchor]

I was swapping randomly between Sub and Assassination last night and nobody said so much as a word lol

Even in the same group

There are just some things you have to be prepared to do

Like for example most groups assume Rogues will stop Fungistorm

Outlaw best at that because of Gouge cooldown but other specs can do it with planning

You just have to be aware that folks expect it

[nova gate]

I know its been said for a million times here already. But unless you want to do hardcore Mythic progression, just play what gives you the most fun while playing. I personally run a Zandalari Necro Sin rogue and I love it :"D maybe some other rogues are 4-6% better but at the end of the day, I like my character how he is.

[hollow river]

No one has said anything to me about playing sub or sin either

But that being said I’ve only plugged 1 +15 this season

[hollow river]

I mean this is true but it feels bad if you’re inting your groups that are trying to push up keys

Like trying to play sub in ToP

To me that just feels horrid

[modest jasper]

It's really not.

We are running double sub for our keys atm.

And it's no issue at all

[hollow river]

Btw inb4 all the rogues come in here with their 252 daggers and 252 phial pictures this afternoon

[modest jasper]

No problemo up to 18s right now.
Unless you are legit pushing for the hardest content it's not holding you back in the slightest.

[hollow river]

Maybe I just need more gear I’m doing like 6.5k overall

[modest jasper]

Also that is the BEST reason to not play it in my opinion. If you don't play it obviously 😄

[hollow river]

Every cleave pull destroys me

[modest jasper]

Gotta pull around it

We are pulling 4-8 whenever we can

utilizing prio damage when needed

8-9k overall is what we do usually, depends on the key obvsly

But ye. Wrong spec channel for that, too 😄

[hollow river]

Well my new guild most people are way more geared than I am

[modest jasper]

But right now imo both Sub and Outlaw are 100% viable for keys.

[hollow river]

I’m still using 220 daggies

[modest jasper]

Assa... not a fan personally but play it if you want! 😄

I am raiding on Assa and feel right at home there 😛

[hollow river]

Fire mage and hunter pulling 8k in keys with my 6.5

[modest jasper]

I mean ye okay, then you are being held back by that obviously 🙂

[hollow river]

Yep

No dps shards yet

[modest jasper]

We are doing 2xSub + Frostmage with RSham and VDH atm.
And it's blasting, ngl.

[hollow river]

Feelsbadman

The mages in my guild won’t go frost I don’t think

Even for raid they’ve been playing fire

[modest jasper]

Still obvsly "casual" level of pushing 🙂
I can't speak for the 20+ scene atm 😄

[hollow river]

Well I think 1 goes frost in raid I may be wrong

[modest jasper]

Mage currently have different covenant choices depending on their spec atm iirc? So maybe that's why a lot don't like multispeccing

[hollow river]

Yeah these mages are still nf lol

[modest apex]

It's frost that's the odd man out

Frost uses Venthyr, the other two stay with NF

[hollow river]

Yeah frost kinda needs vent

No

Arcane use kyrian

[modest apex]

Oh

[hollow river]

For best results

[modest apex]

I stand corrected, I didn't know Arcane moved to Kyrian now

[hollow river]

U can play venth arcane

It’s not terrible

[modest jasper]

Our Frosties are Venth, our Arcane is Kyrian atm.

[hollow river]

But kyrian is bis for arcane

[modest jasper]

I think at least.

[hollow river]

Sounds about right

[modest jasper]

Is Radiant Spark the Kyrian one? 😄

[modest apex]

yea

[odd hazel]

Is this a mage discord

[modest jasper]

But ye, since yesterday it's solidified: We now have 3 rogues on the roster, 2x Assa 1x Sub 😄

[hollow river]

Kyrian arcane looks like fun tbh

[modest jasper]

Our raid turning out to be slightly class stacked 😛

[alpine latch]

For all of you who have done it... How much heartbreak do I need to prepare for if I want to start looking for a CE or Mythic prog guild as a rogue?

[odd hazel]

A lot. They are usually very picky and selective. The main thing is it’s time consuming

[alpine latch]

My friends are probably going back to Alliance in 9.2 and there's nothing on Alliance for me, I'm not welcome in the guild they would go back to.

So I'm going to be on an island alone

[odd hazel]

Oh

Wait

Didn’t recognize the PfP Palmer

[modest jasper]

Depends.
If someone can vouch for you, pretty little. If you play well and get yourself a trial you are mostly sorted out.

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I have no one to vouch for me, sadly.

I don't have many friends in WoW left

[modest jasper]

Getting into a Mythic Prog guild should be pretty simple. Look at wowprog a bit and find a guild that was maybe 8/10 last tier and now at least killed Tara or so and see if they look for rogues.

CE guild same deal but might be harder landing a trial if you have no logs or previous exp to show.

[alpine latch]

yeah

Only 2/10 in CN and probably finishing 3-4/10 this tier

[modest jasper]

But ngl if you can formulate a decent application and put in effort you will already be better than 70% of mythic progress raiders

[alpine latch]

So basically, I need to go from a 2/10 guild to a 4/10 guild

Then slowly "work my way up" so to speak?

[modest jasper]

Depends.

I went from 1/10 to CE

[alpine latch]

That sounds nice

[modest jasper]

Had some vouchers though, so that obvsly helped.

[alpine latch]

yeah

[modest jasper]

But imo, just apply.

Worst thing is you get a no

[alpine latch]

I need to make friends, but Horde side is tough. If a single pull goes wrong early in m+ 3 people instantly leave the group and RIP the key

You can't really "grind it out" when everyone's so quick to give up

[modest jasper]

Networking. Do keys, add good players to your Flist.

[alpine latch]

And that's usually where you meet people

[modest jasper]

Do that for a tier or two

Have a list of 50+ people

Easy to find good keys.

I mean ngl, I say it's "easy and just do it", obvsly it's not that simple. Takes effort and you will 100% have shitty days and people fking you over. That's normal.

[alpine latch]

yeah

I'm used to that

[modest jasper]

But it's certainly doable to get into "good circles" in WoW

[oblique kiln]

Can anyone help me with the best opener using MA and flag? The guides/ videos iv seen arnt really consistent

[scenic root]

You are better off this tier than last. The fact rogues are brought to RWF, where last teir it was trolling to, means most guilds won't have a dedicated rogue, so if they want one have to recruit

[modest jasper]

MA is rarely used but should not impact your opener too much.
Mut -> SnD -> Garrote -> Mut -> (flag) -> Rupture -> Shiv/Vendetta/Vanish -> do dmg.

[odd hazel]

Mut - snd - mut - garrote - vendetta - flag - rupture - shiv/vanish - mut - evenom

[oblique kiln]

I meant master assassin talent not the lego

[modest jasper]

Same thing applies 😄

[oblique kiln]

Ok coo ty

[vital topaz]

I always use MA in raid

[modest jasper]

But ye, you can find that info in the guides 100% 😄

[modest jasper]

Oh ye, it's the default pick. I thought they meant legendary for some reason

[fallen arch]

If you have okayish logs and you can show you are willing to commit you should find a group quickly really

[oblique kiln]

Once you get vendetta back do you want to use it with vanish since they are on the same timer and also hold your second flag for your vendetta window too?

[odd hazel]

Never hold flag and yeah you could since shiv should realistically line up with them

Unless you know you’ll miss a cast

#assassination-faq for more

[alpine latch]

That's refreshing. I'm not even a "CE or bust" - if I can find a guild that's 5-6 hours a week and is going to get 5-6 bosses, I'm perfectly fine with that too. I'm not looking to raid 30 hours a week or anything, I just want a bit more of a challenge and want to play with people who are willing to invest time into getting better.

I'm only like 226 item level right now, but my goal is to push for KSM this week and hopefully come out of this reset at 235 item level. (Had crippling anxiety the last two weeks and wasn't nearly as productive as I wanted to be)

[drifting cloud]

my dude theres quite a big gap between 6h and 30h

and 6h guilds also get ce

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I know

There are 4h guilds that get CE

I was just saying, I'm not trying to get into RWF or anything

[void needle]

Have we lost a bunch on pinned messages? was looking for best slot to craft Zoldyck's on

[timid talon]

Good luck in your vaults today, I hope you all get phial and sylvanas daggers

[mint kindle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[alpine latch]

If I get a Sylv dagger, it's only Normal 😦

So here's hoping for Phial.. lol

Or a Mists dagger

[odd hazel]

Pants

#assassination-faq is where you’ll find most stuff now

[void needle]

Ahh

Thanks

[strange silo]

Hey with obedience how much cd decrease is average as sin? i guess around 35-40 sec?

[drifting cloud]

[mint kindle]

!opener

[modest jasper]

If you can manage 35-40 on average you are a mechanical god 😛

It's more 20-25

[alpine latch]

Or you're on Terragrue, lol

[odd hazel]

Or a chad pull in M+

[modest jasper]

Even on a good pull with high crit you will get to ~30.

12s, 12gcds, even if you do a finisher every other cast it's still only 6 finishers 😄

[strange silo]

did i fck up the maths xd we have 24 sec of flag right? and every cp gives 1 sec so if i get around 20 stacks per flag cast + 12 sec haste bonus it should ad up to 35 sec?

[modest jasper]

The cdr is only counted in the first 12s. Unless I am hugely mistaken 😄

[strange silo]

ohhh ok then yea could get hard to reach 30-40 sec xd

[dull cloak]

sub is the only spec that can consistently get 30 stacks + cdr

[spice spire]

Sub built diffy

[shadow tusk]

When playing EP do you still pool for envenoms or send it in the 10% dmg window

[odd hazel]

I’ll be honest

I don’t think really any one here actively pools

[prisma cypress]

porque no los dos

[timid talon]

how do you adjust titanic ocular gland's uptime in sims?

[strange python]

for people that play sub and sin regularly are you happy with Obedience vs Finality/doomblade/zoldycks?

[hollow talon]

gamers

gamers

its happening

[ebon notch]

fk off

[echo geyser]

[mystic fractal]

i got edge of night and phial as my options O_o

[echo geyser]

show

[topaz saffron]

I didn't see phial once in season 1 don't do this to me

[mystic fractal]

i am scrub gamer so it's normal mode shit

[echo geyser]

dagger for sure

[dull cloak]

whats the actual dps dif between a 246 and 252 phial

[echo geyser]

prob like

0.2-0.6 max

[hollow talon]

i have a 239 one

ill sim my 252 one

[mystic fractal]

i am torn, dagger seems better now but trinket slot is just completed for the patch if i grab and upgrade

[echo geyser]

u can farm phial 236 for free

but u cant farm dagger infinitely

[minor dagger]

haste versa or crit mast?

[forest shoal]

252 grim codex or 242 arachnid cipher ring? hard to pass on the 10 ilvl diff

[hollow talon]

i would take the edge of night imo

grim codex is bad

[echo geyser]

yeah its not even close tbh, if u take phial its weird

[hollow talon]

236 phial u can farm infinitely but sylv daggers is once a week

[fathom flax]

252 dagger last week, 252 shadowgrasp this week

[forest shoal]

@minor dagger haste

[mystic fractal]

Point taken, TY for wisdom 🙂

[timid talon]

Unlucky

[hollow talon]

alright now time to do normal sylvanas for 233 dagger and then hard mode for my 233 ticking

and then ill get 2 unholy shards and gain an easy 1k dps

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9kFhRJjz95v2UP66qy9U5E

252 phial is 186 dps ahead of 229 one

for whoever was askin before

[alpine latch]

Bah, my best upgrade is a chest or shoulders, everything else is like 30 DPS

[sterile ocean]

is raidbots down for people?

[arctic hare]

Its probably overloaded rn

[sterile ocean]

ahh

[hollow talon]

i got dat premium

definitely worth it imo

[white jetty]

which one should i go for?

[hollow talon]

i feel guilty vendoring this

but i have no need for it now

[fathom flax]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sP17cGMpqZwpZfRS5ENrgZ

[misty holly]

Gosh I hate the vault so much. All I get are rings and domination slot from my dungeons.

Gonna be ring/ring from my first two vaults just like in season 1

[azure flare]

wait that dagger dropped from your normal?

[dull cloak]

probably ooze

[azure flare]

oh u didnt do any hc nvm

would have been sick if u could get normal dagger even after u kill 9 hc bosses

[mystic fractal]

I cleared normal and 5/10hc, stealing the loot luck from all the good rogues 😦

[timid talon]

ooze isn't a terrible trinket its just not amazing

[alpine latch]

Man, you guys are close to 8k sims and I just cracked 7k ... I REALLY need better weapons 😦

[gentle gyro]

you and me both

[timid talon]

8k? Im closer to 9k

[azure flare]

i need better trinkets

i got the phial but my second trick is ass man

[gentle gyro]

i haven't had a good weapon for all of SL

[thorn sierra]

239 fusion amp or 252 shadowgrasp totem? cant sim raidbots aint working

[alpine latch]

Somehow my 235 Haste/Crit Obedience is simming higher than a rank 6 haste/crit Obedience... I think I fucked something up. lol

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3uz1AMsMv2VQweW8KYG6Gw

That's impressive.

r4 > r6 confirmed?

[fathom flax]

252 for sure

[fathom flax]

100%

[alpine latch]

Seriously, how the hell do I lose 3 DPS by upgrading it? lol

[thorn crater]

Is the quantum device worth it for us at all? It is one of my 252 options

[opaque karma]

neck (have the normal version of the shoulders) or trinket le hmm

[alpine latch]

70k in mats to lose 3 DPS and gain item level

[leaden garden]

It effects your transmog that's why

[thorn sierra]

is it really 252 shadowgrasp over 239 fusion amp? i thought bis was fusion amp and phial

[oblique kiln]

!bis

[balmy condor]

We don’t support bis lists

[opaque karma]

mav sim yoself

[thorn sierra]

raidbots is down

[alpine latch]

It's working for me

Just give it like 20 minutes

[balmy condor]

I’m on mobile so it’s a little rough but I don’t think your boots have a gem in them in the 262 one

[alpine latch]

Oh shit, I forgot to check that box. Derp... Thanks dude.

[balmy condor]

Yep np

[lyric dock]

Rip

[dull cloak]

id take 252 totem just because u may never see another one again

[halcyon zealot]

W

[thorn sierra]

Raidbots queue is currently unavailable due to high traffic or server problems sadge

[alpine latch]

Totem is like top 3-4 trinkets in the game for us. Definitely take that, unless you have a weapon or phial

[alpine latch]

That happens every week at this time. Just give it an hour and you'll get in no problem

Everyone's rushing to get upgrades so if you're not a premium user, you're screwed

[dull cloak]

totem should do more damage than phial for sin

[thorn sierra]

theres no time time limit on vault right? im clearing heroic today

[fathom flax]

theres not, but totem is the better choice there

[balmy condor]

I don’t think totem is the better choice

[fathom flax]

im gonna go kms

[halcyon zealot]

stirrin the pot

[thorn sierra]

fusion amp wins in aoe and barely loses in st right?

[balmy condor]

Other way around

[fathom flax]

your chance of seeing a 239 amp is real high

and your chance of seeing another 252 totem is real low

[balmy condor]

If you can get resets with the totem, it’s gonna be better

[fathom flax]

is another way to look at it

[balmy condor]

Actually true

[cedar star]

Does shadowgrasp totem scale with haste or no

[balmy condor]

Yes

[strange python]

imagine being 230 ilvl, and having 4 252 options, and a 239 option
and the best one is a 13 dps increase for sub only

[dull cloak]

yea this maybe your only 252 totem this tier

[halcyon zealot]

do we just rip totem on CD

[balmy condor]

Yes

[cerulean nest]

meh, got stitchflesh signet

guess ill take it

[strange python]

I did 34 keys last week and came out the other end with a 30 dps increase

[opaque karma]

go to ff14 then

[strange python]

wtf is this luck

[opaque karma]

ive done 25+ PF and have only gotten 1 piece of loot, spoiler it wasnt a phial

[cerulean nest]

genuinely planning on it lol once keys are done for the week

[tough crescent]

i did probably 60+ pf runs last tier and didnt see a single phial drop

[rapid mirage]

Hmm Sylv Dagger from Normal vs upgraded UH Dom slot helm from Normal to Heroic version...

[placid dawn]

for the 3 dom shards bonus you need the specific item right? for unholy bonus we would need the fatescribe helm

[balmy condor]

Yup

[thorn crater]

Or the one from remenant

But fatescribes is better I think

[pale fossil]

I got about 100 dps increase today because Sylvanas dagger (normal)

I'll take it

[alpine latch]

Fawk ... We need Fatescribe/

It'll be a bit for me before I get that, then 😦

[thorn sierra]

i got lucky w/3 piece unholy but i was dumbass and spent 100 embers on frost shard set coz i didnt think i would get unholy

[eternal geode]

important thing it to get helm + 2 other socket, 4th and 5th arent as important, right?

[alpine latch]

My guild only got 4/10H this week because one of our best healers left for a CE guild

[thorn sierra]

i got all 9 shards 2nd week and 3 dom sockets

[teal bloom]

Remnant of Nerzhul drops a leather helmet too but it's haste vers and fatescribe one is haste crit

[alpine latch]

And our 2nd best healer is out this week, so I don't see us progressing that much this week

[thorn sierra]

unholy set is too op not to take it though

[fathom flax]

has anyone got a quick run down on optimal totem usage?

[molten galleon]

!guie

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

On cd

[fathom flax]

Thanks, I can just bind it to something else

Also is shiv/vanish off gcd so for pve you could have a vanish shiv macro

sims have that at same timeframe

timestamp

[balmy condor]

You want to shiv then vanish during the shiv

Sims cast it together because they’re sims

But I don’t suggest it

[fathom flax]

yeah, ive been doing it the other way around

macros like that always turn out worse

[balmy condor]

Oh yeah that’s definitely bad

Don’t vanish into shiv

[stone gate]

Does sin have better aoe than sub? ik that neither of them are rlly good at it but still wondering

[fathom flax]

sorry im an idiot i vend shiv vanish mut env mut

im climbing the spectrum

[balmy condor]

Definitely not, sub aoe is really good

[fathom flax]

Sub shreds on Fate / Soulrender for the burst AOE

[stone gate]

so sin has better ST then?

[balmy condor]

Not necessarily

They’re pretty close

The thing sin does better is cleave

[stone gate]

is aoe and cleave not the same thing?

[balmy condor]

Cleave is 2-4 target

Aoe is more than that

[stone gate]

Ah I see

[fathom flax]

m+ do you just swap to CT/Garrote

sorry CT/Subterfuge

why am i word bad

[thorn sierra]

so with shadowgrasp totem in dungeons are you suppose to pop when mobs are at a 1/4hp for cd reduction?

[fathom flax]

i read the wowhead on it theres a bunch of tips in there

[ripe saddle]

Just wondering - is ambush not in opener?

[balmy condor]

Correct

[wary ice]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[ripe saddle]

woah ty ty

[dull osprey]

Why do the guides say flag before vend, but I was advised to use vend into flag?

[odd hazel]

Sub is great at AoE

[balmy condor]

Because the difference is completely irrelevant and people do it either way

[dull osprey]

AH! Cool

Thanks

[balmy condor]

Np

[foggy thicket]

Should I take BIS ring(crit/haste) or dagger(crit/mast) 252? My ring are 236/226 and my daggers are 239/236

[thorn fjord]

got another 252 dagger today boizzzz

[fallen arch]

Dagger

[foggy thicket]

@balmy condor What do u think?

[balmy condor]

Taking the ring seems pretty troll

[foggy thicket]

XD

ok

ty man

[limber lion]

dagger >>> phial >>>>>>>>>>> everything else

[stone gate]

when do u get vault items?

[limber lion]

What does that mean?

[stone gate]

like when can I claim it

I just see an orb

[limber lion]

An orb?

You can claim it after reset.

[limber lion]

Wednesday 10am for EU

[stone gate]

ye but whens the reset

ok

[limber lion]

I mean

uhhhhhhhh

9am server time I think

[storm nymph]

252 IQD vs Heroic guardian trinket hmm

[fallen arch]

Srsly

All these ppl with their good vaults

[limber lion]

Sim it.

[thorn sierra]

in raiding i think 252 iqd cd might be too long

[limber lion]

IQD is pretty giga for Venth if you have crit as your highest stat

[fallen arch]

I’m gonna get crap again tomorrow

[storm nymph]

3 dps difference

[limber lion]

But the guardian trinket is pretty dank

[storm nymph]

but IQD is just blew

bleh*

[limber lion]

Do you have crit as your highest stat?

And are you Venth?

[storm nymph]

yeah

crit highest

venth

[limber lion]

welp

just take the guardian one then tbh

unless you want to trade loot

[spice spire]

IQD lowkey stonks tho

[limber lion]

and be a team player

[limber swallow]

I took the dagger.. because dagger.

[manic haven]

For pure ST, do we go double shadowcore oil + phantom fire?

[inland oasis]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[spice spire]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[manic haven]

Cheers guys

[limber lion]

Good.

[latent perch]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[timid pond]

are yall upgrading obed or doom for raid?

[frosty gyro]

233 sylv dagger is better than a 252 dagger right?

for OH

[balmy condor]

in offhand, yes

usually not in main hand

[ripe saddle]

I got a quesiton about improvement - ST dmg. I am doing 5 min timer dpsing dummy while simming too. I am able to do same dmg as my sim but why am i doing such low dmg?

4.9k 5min 1 target

[balmy condor]

yeah seems fine

[fathom flax]

you will probably do more as bonesmith ST

[ripe saddle]

aside from boofs, maybe spam pf for 236 dagger/ trinket before raid?

[odd hazel]

Sub is great at AoE

[ripe saddle]

Also my question is these talents I picked seem so easy to play sin

[fathom flax]

you and every other rogue

[ripe saddle]

like nothing to worry about when to reapply dot etc

just enough energy when vendetta is about to be up and use it on cd and repeat rotation?

oo i just realized i forgot tto swap my fkn outlaw conduits.. LOL

[limber lion]

Looks fine. Raid buffs, lusts, potion etc. are a huge part of our damage.

[swift oak]

is it normal if Envenom is my top damage and my auto attacks second ? on any sanctum boss*

[wind totem]

I just had a run where on last boss of ToP I casted flaggelation and got teh buff but got no stacks towards it and in the end got not haste from it. Anyone know whats up with that?

[odd hazel]

Yeah, mine flip flop a lot

[swift oak]

shouldn't autos be first ? at least according to raidbot

[balmy condor]

it depends on your gear

a lot of the time envenom will be top

[swift oak]

if i have more mastery ? like 30%

And thanks for the answers ^^

[balmy condor]

that would affect it, yes

[odd hazel]

I’d link a log and we can look into it

[strange python]

hi

Essence of Bloodfang or Zold legendary better for keys?

[odd hazel]

@strange python zold if you’re not venth, obedience if venth

[drowsy crescent]

this make sense to any of you?

Quantam + TOG not as good as Ooze trinket + TOG?

[odd hazel]

Is your crit higher then your haste ( are you venthyr )

[drowsy crescent]

27% crit, 31% haste, I am venthyr

[wind totem]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P3yLvYmqAkMCD6V1

[balmy condor]

seems okay

[odd hazel]

The actual numbers not %

[drowsy crescent]

without TOG i'm at 600 crit/900 haste

[odd hazel]

That’s why IqD is not good for you

[drowsy crescent]

IqD boosts haste more, correct?

[lilac jolt]

i'm looking at the quick sim log cast sequence and ambush is never used from stealth, do you not use it at all?

[odd hazel]

I’m not exactly sure of the reason but it does a lot better with higher crit

[odd hazel]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[lilac jolt]

huh there's a bot to answer everything!

but aweesome ty

[drowsy crescent]

sweet

[vagrant tapir]

What happened that made blindside so good?

[sonic schooner]

About sylvanas p3, is it the same rule than sire p3? I mean by that 2 vendetta is better than 1 vendetta in bloodlust right?

👀

[azure flare]

Gear

[azure flare]

Always has been

[vagrant tapir]

was the talent itself changed directly?

[azure flare]

Thats not a boss specific thing

[hollow river]

It’s always been good for ST

[azure flare]

No

Not in awhile

[sonic schooner]

okok, left wow at the begning of mop and came back for nathria so i didnt know if it was something just because melee lust on sire is shit kinda xD

[azure flare]

See it like this

Losing a cast is 100% damage lost from that second cast

Putting it inside x or y damage buff that only increases it by 20% is a clear loss

[sonic schooner]

yea that s what i was thinking

[azure flare]

Safest bet is using it on cd until you roughly know whether holding might lose you something

[odd hazel]

It’s always been good

[viscid spear]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6pyqsU49ybRhTB8F8ymUB8

[frosty gyro]

Are domination shard sims broken? It says frost set sims higher than unholy for me by like 200 dps

[spice spire]

Link?

[brave vector]

is there a certain order that i should sim things on my character in? like sim all my gear first, then with those results sim all my talents, then sim all soul binds, etc. or does it not make a significant difference?

[echo geyser]

Top gear all at once

[frosty gyro]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qkoXhqwr39Pj12xmX4y4mb

[spice spire]

There’s no helm.

Simmed, right?

I’m not blind?

[frosty gyro]

Oh yeah I';m stupid

lol

[spice spire]

Oh thank god

[brave vector]

i mean sure, but even with the 16m iterations you cant choose every single option available

[spice spire]

I was like “I might be looking real dumb”

[viscid spear]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mApMrLjwnJ2TkeFsdf9rVk

BLindside really is better, hmm

[spice spire]

That seems so low for 228

[frosty bridge]

very

[spice spire]

Ignore my mog, I didn’t get a chance to change gear

[frosty bridge]

It must be the mog

[iron orchid]

I like how equipping a 246 MH and full unholy set was roughly a 12% increase to my sim

[spice spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eDnKzm2BDEcRnBFzxBEz4N

[echo geyser]

Well for talents u pretty much already know whats the best

[sick cairn]

i did top gear sims, with 16million iterations

[spice spire]

360 higher and Necrolord

[sick cairn]

this doesnt feel right

[echo geyser]

And u rly dont wanna sim enchants or gems

Cause those chunk up thr combinations

[viscid spear]

yeah?

[bleak valve]

any place to see rankings of trinkets?

[echo geyser]

Herodamage, but it wont be exactly values for ur gear

[hollow river]

Guardian trinket is #1

[echo geyser]

Good enough pointer tho

[hollow river]

Phial is #2

[viscid spear]

What can I do to get better then?

[hollow river]

Bis trinkets, high ilvl weapons and unholy shards/dps shards

[viscid spear]

Yeah but 6.8 is low for 228 ilvl

[hollow river]

What are ur trinkets

And weapon ilvl?

[sick cairn]

IQD worth upgrading? or should i wait for a few weeks

[hollow river]

Sim your best soul binds might help too

[odd hazel]

His damage is fine

[hollow river]

It’s pretty good only 2 trinkets are better I think

[odd hazel]

He might just not have the high damage boosters

Like unholy set, trinkets etc

[viscid spear]

Soul Cage Fragment and Heroic Dreadfire

[hollow river]

That’s what i said

[viscid spear]

Two 226s

[sick cairn]

thanks, i have a 226 phial from last season

[hollow river]

Yeah get some better trinkets

[sick cairn]

bout to clear HC this week, wish me luck for guardian drop

[hollow river]

Iqd is #2 on use trinket rn

[sick cairn]

while #1 is the guardian one right?

[hollow river]

Fusion amp from guardian is #1 but u need to raid for it

Yes

[sick cairn]

aiight

[odd hazel]

Oof

[hollow river]

And phial is #1 passive trinket still

[sick cairn]

thanks man, bout to finna fully upgrade this shit haha

[odd hazel]

Shadow grasp is better the. iqD

[hollow river]

I won’t ever believe that

Sim bait

[viscid spear]

I know

[harsh anchor]

It is for some people

[odd hazel]

Sim bait oof

Even whispyr said it’s good

[hollow river]

If it were me I’d wait a couple weeks and see what else I could get.

But iqd is still good

[viscid spear]

Changing something and running another sim

[hollow river]

I’d use it at whatever ilvl it is now

[odd hazel]

Never said it was bad

[sick cairn]

the last time IQD dropped for me

[harsh anchor]

As long as your IQD is 236 from +15, sit on it

[odd hazel]

IQD is only good for venth with high crit

[sick cairn]

it was when i did a normal dungeon in 9.0

[hollow river]

Lool

[odd hazel]

[hollow river]

I never got one

[harsh anchor]

Never got one and calls it sim bait

[hollow river]

I got like a187 totem

I said totem is sim bait

........

[odd hazel]

I got a 239 one

And it was a 230+ upgrade from a 220 decanter

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow river]

Well no shit

[odd hazel]

But what do I know fam

[hollow river]

It’s 239 and 220

[odd hazel]

When even the CF say. It’s good and it gets called sim bait still

[hollow river]

Totem is good. But I don’t believe you’ll get as much from it as sims say

[odd hazel]

That’s on your usage

Not it

IQD is only good with high crit

And that’s venth

Doesn’t mean you’ll always do good with it

[hollow river]

Pretty sure iqd is fine necro

[bronze spire]

If I wanna do good raid damage should I go sin until I have sylvanas daggers and the venth lego?

[odd hazel]

“Fine” is not good

[hollow river]

..... ok bud

[odd hazel]

Sin is fine either way. You can use doom with it for raid

[hollow river]

Just gonna argue either way.

[bronze spire]

I should say that I am currently playing sub. now this week I have enough to make my doomblade lego.

I just wanna make sure the juice is worth the squeeze to craft doomblade and swap to sin.

[tulip nacelle]

Why do you think so?

[alpine latch]

Man, r6 cloak upgrades are so damn minimal...

4->6 is about a 70 DPS jump

[hollow river]

Because you have to drop it on the ground and it has a small range.

Any number of things can go wrong with this.

“Just use it correctly”.....yeah ok GL doing that every time

[thin trout]

on fights like jailer/nine where u have two targets, is it better to have Vigor or Deeper strategem? Assuming we want to keep garrote and rupture on two targets

[hollow river]

EP/vigor/CT

[tulip nacelle]

it has a gigantic range

50y

[steel geyser]

EP Vigor on both fights for sure.

[odd hazel]

Imagine not knowing how it works and still being wrong

[hollow river]

That’s not in the tooltip and not was I was told so

[hollow river]

Imagine imagining

Imagine being alliance

[odd hazel]

So you say it’s sim bait and tell people lies

[thin trout]

is there any way to properly get venomous wounds on a 2nd target if you use mouverover macros for garrote and rupture? or do i acutally have to make sure i auto attack so deadly poison gets applied

[odd hazel]

M

the ally excuse

[harsh anchor]

Night elf bis lessgo

[hollow river]

I’m going off what I see and hear competitive players doing, not just sims

[azure flare]

Im late but

If this is about grasp totem

[odd hazel]

Mecha gnome gg

[azure flare]

It is def not sim bait

[odd hazel]

Your competitive players are wrong lmao

[harsh anchor]

Yes yes keep it going. TOTEM POWER

[azure flare]

Is it about shadowgrasp?

[hollow river]

Ok man hop the fuck off

[azure flare]

Just curious cus i skimmed lol

Help a brother out im on phone

[harsh anchor]

Yes

[azure flare]

Ah

[odd hazel]

Yes

[azure flare]

What makes you believe shadowgrasp is simbait?

[harsh anchor]

Tldr, smol range, a lot of things can go wrong

[tulip nacelle]

there is no range in the tooltip and I don't know what you have been told and by whom, go try it for yourself if you don't believe me

[azure flare]

Hmm range is quite big tbh, big enough to ninja pull shit in a dung miles away even

[harsh anchor]

IMO it’s like blizzard from frost mage, plan better and things won’t leave your totem. And yes the range is massive but that was one his reasons

[azure flare]

It's actually a common complaint tht its range is too big even lol

It acts like a pet, so its targeting can be delayed if you're swapping a lot but other than that its pretty damn good

[harsh anchor]

AFAIK it gets better with haste as well

[hollow river]

Literally all I was saying is that I do not believe, in practice, it is as big a gain as it says in sims.

[iron orchid]

tbh iqd is more of a simbait than totem, depending on where you set the "IQD stat proc chance" in raidbots

[hollow river]

Jesus Christ.

If you disagree, cool.

[azure flare]

I mean, I just asked lol

Not sure why you're having a go at me for it

[hollow river]

Not at you really

[azure flare]

Oh okay

Mbmb

[signal badger]

People are telling you ur wrong for a couple different reasons

[odd hazel]

Because you’re spreading misinformation based off opinions

[mild dagger]

Honestly trinkets are a noob crutch

[pale fossil]

^

[spice spire]

True

[hollow river]

I literally said, from the start, from the point of view of MY belief. That is not spreading misinformation. Please stfu

[spice spire]

Alright

[odd hazel]

Your opinion though is in fact wrong

We have proof it’s good and not just sim bait go off

[hollow river]

I’m still allowed my own opinion dude

[odd hazel]

Never said you weren’t my man

[hollow river]

I don’t need you telling me anything

[odd hazel]

Just saying it’s wrong, just don’t tell others the wrong info also

[hollow river]

Please scroll up it’s obvious from the start it’s my own opinion

[signal badger]

Yo trick you should cool off a bit, no point in arguing further. Everyone has said their piece

[tepid grove]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[odd hazel]

[fleet anchor]

It doesn't really have small range at all... that's just repeating bad facts

[odd hazel]

^

[fleet anchor]

It's literally like 60y range or something lol

It's definitely far higher than melee range. Hunters use Totem just fine

[red atlas]

Is dashing scoundrel Best ST leggo now?

[odd hazel]

Nope, check pins

[fleet anchor]

Also just in case folks who haven't used it want proof, just grabbed a screenshot on dummies

[wind totem]

I just had a run where on last boss of ToP I casted flaggelation and got the buff but got no stacks towards it and in the end got not haste from it. Anyone know whats up with that?

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P3yLvYmqAkMCD6V1

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GozChxvC1fA

[fleet anchor]

Range ain't a problem with totem 😄

[wind totem]

I know I'm outlaw but shouldn't matter

[fleet anchor]

Totem is just a totem-flavored Sire trinket. There's really no difference

[odd hazel]

It’s just sad the one trinket got bette the moment I upgraded totem

Totem also does stupid damage

[narrow ravine]

keep seeing people getting 252 weapons and bis trinkets im over here getting 252 chest with no dom socket, going fml

[cobalt hemlock]

better than getting a cloak my dude

[odd hazel]

I haven’t been home to open mine but I’m gonna get fucked somehow

[spice spire]

Same krey

[narrow ravine]

I didnt take the non-dom item, went with a 239 dom gloves

[cobalt hemlock]

looks good

[narrow ravine]

but all of my high items seem to be invalid slots for the new system, why even drop chests shoulders and helms if you cant use them

[cobalt hemlock]

i mean if you arent a really good player already pushing keys higher than 15 or doing mythic. Its not a big deal you will get your bis item till end of season

[odd hazel]

I might actually aim for all 20s this tier

[hollow river]

......

[odd hazel]

Uh oh

We woke up whispyr

[winged basin]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[hallow snow]

im torn between upgrading either Obedience or Doomblade to rank 5

[dull scarab]

same

[odd hazel]

Do you play sub?

If so do obedience

If not o would do doom

[balmy condor]

playing a shit spec, so the game is punishing you

[hallow snow]

no but ive thought about it once i got some gear for it

[balmy condor]

I've been up

[wide ridge]

100-200 dps loss due to a bug is insane wtf

[cobalt hemlock]

i would say obedience since its as good as doomblade in ST but better in dungeon slice

[cobalt hemlock]

TRUE LULW

[spice spire]

Assassination is really RPing the toxicity today

Respect

[winged basin]

[odd hazel]

Someone say toxic blade ?

[spice spire]

TTB gaming?!

[ashen fulcrum]

do any of yall change any talents for tyrannical weeks?

[spice spire]

Most of the time - no

Very niche need for it

[ashen fulcrum]

word ty

one last question single target I still use crimson tempest if shiv is on CD and rupture is still up right?

[wide ridge]

yes

[fleet anchor]

Yes I'm pretty sure taking dom sockets is correct 100% of the time if you don't have that slot yet

Unless it's vs. Sylv dagger

Socket bonuses are just worth far too much and even without the bonuses each slot is worth a ton, plus you enable more trading for your raid

Socket slots are just absurd really

[narrow ravine]

yeah I took 239 dom gloves over the 252 chest without one, it just felt bad

[fleet anchor]

Minimum they are worth like an extra 1.2% damage after you complete your set and when putting together a set, it's worth dropping tons to get it

Since even a R3 set bonus is worth 8% or more

If I get a blood gem today it's worth me dropping my R4 Dyz gem as well as 15 ilevels in two slots and I still would gain 4.5% damage

It's busted

[thorny pond]

busteddddd

[red stump]

would you guys shiv at max combo points? say you crit a mutilate from 2 to 6 combo points and shiv comes off cd. do you hold shiv or just press it?

[thorny pond]

Max

[ashen fulcrum]

shiv anyways I think

[drowsy parcel]

SMASH SHIV