I just felt like that may be why people are asking so much
#assassination
balmy condor
People are asking so much because numbers are hard idk
hollow river
Haha
deep solstice
everyone just wants someone to tell them an easy answer instead of "You need to sim yourself dude"
hollow river
People are asking so much because numbers are hard idk
Do you think the crafted gear will get updated in raidbots?
balmy condor
Wdym
deep solstice
some of the tooltips are jacked up on the 230 gear, but it sims correctly
balmy condor
Yeah that all sims fine
hollow river
Oh okay
I just remember last we talked of it we thought they were jacked
Good to know
balmy condor
Yeah blame wowhead for their incompetent tooltips
balmy condor
Or blame blizzard for their incompetent tooltips that wowhead then has to pass along incompetently
hollow river
.>
deep solstice
If the tooltips were accurate my crit/vers ring would sim better than socketed mythic sylv ring.
hollow river
I’ve been simming myself with 226 dom helm
Instead of 230 crafted helm
I got 233 crit vers ring from normal vault
And it simmed better than 246 boots and 242 legs from m+
deep solstice
I had someone nice enough to give me a socketed one from raid
hollow river
Kinda weird all that crit simmed higher than like +11 agil
deep solstice
crit is good
deep solstice
I am lacking a little ilvl, but happy with my stat distribution.
hollow river
213 chain 226 skulkers and 220 dread fire.. and 220 daggies. I’m in the shitter rn
What boss drops stat dagger?
deep solstice
in raid or m+?
hollow river
Raid
deep solstice
remnant
hollow river
The knock back guy?
teal bloom
Yep
hollow river
Hopefully that’ll be ez 252 wep if I haven’t gotten one from m+ by then
Rng sucked for me all last tier
deep solstice
Yes. You are probably gonna have an easier time just doing m+ for them tho. mythic remnant is prob not a week 2 or 3 clear for most guilds
teal bloom
Remnant daggers are vers mastery sadge but dagger is a dagger
hollow river
I got a 187 phial two weeks before patch day
I play sub too so
A daggie is a daggie
Remnant is 4th boss right
teal bloom
You can do remnant or soulrender 4th but remnant is probably easier
hollow river
Ye
deep solstice
still not a pushover like first 3
hollow river
And idk about getting 252 daggie from vault in 2 or 3 weeks
bleak sedge
I wish i could get rid of my 213 dagger lmao
deep solstice
can at least make a 246 from valor
deep solstice
- just enough to make a +14 weapon 246
hollow river
I’d have to get invited to +14s first 
bleak sedge
Man I really dislike the vigor ep playstyle lmao
stiff tapir
What boss drops stat dagger?
Mists drops haste / verse daggers
fresh kernel
Don't do what I did first week I was outlaw just to try to get weapon upgrades in m+ the night prior got home from work be thought(didn't check) I was in sin spec.. got a 246 1hand sword to think it might of been a dagger.
hollow river
I did a 16 with guildies. It was ez clap. But I get no invites to pugs
hollow river
Mists drops haste / verse daggers
I meant raid
deep solstice
just get your io up a bit. groups actually like rogues this tier
bleak sedge
Had a 16 NW with 3 randoms and this dudes did wild pulls. I got carried af. I wasn't even bad they were just disgustingly good
hollow river
People already clearing 21 and up NW
deep solstice
I feel like I should stream keys more. I streamed a few push keys to guildies this weekend and played out of my mind.
a lot better than no stream
hollow river
I think my rogue has been approved to be the 2nd rogue on roster
Now just need to finish my trial
But I don’t have to go rdps thank god
deep solstice
If you are not 100% comfortable that you could play your basic rotation blindfolded just spend a few hours on a dummy. Will make mechanics a joke once the rotation barely takes a thought. Helps a lot with raiding and m+.
hollow river
I think im good (enough) especially when playing sin
Sub could use a bit more practice but
Raid to me is ez. Sin in keys is where I shit the bed. So playing sub in keys besides ToP etc
bleak sedge
If you are not 100% comfortable that you could play your basic rotation blindfol...
If i fuck up i fuck up at target swaps lmao
deft wagon
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
deft wagon
Guys how do you open on a 2 boss fight? Do you just do single target opener and then after that you put bleeds on the other boss?
fresh kernel
I would think bleeds first for energy Regen?
bleak sedge
With MA or Subt?
teal bloom
Sim ruptures second target only after the first shiv window ends
jovial spear
I get bleeds up on first, then second, then shiv+vendetta the focus one
but might be wrong, I dunno
deft wagon
I normally play MA for raids
bleak sedge
Im going for gar!+ rupt on 1 and then rupt on 2 before i go for vendetta flag vanish shiv on first
jovial spear
Might be a dumb question, but why vanish before shiv? isnt it better to time it to go shiv -> Vanish -> 5+ Envenom?
bleak sedge
Because you can get shiv and env in the MA window
teal bloom
shiv before vanish yes
halcyon zealot
Might be a dumb question, but why vanish before shiv? isnt it better to time it...
you shiv before vanish yes
bleak sedge
Doesn't the guide state otherwise?
teal bloom
you don't shiv during MA window unless you are running tiny toxic blade or something lol
jovial spear
yeah, thats what I thought
teal bloom
atleast Icyveins uses shiv before vanish and I doubt the other guides say otherwise
bleak sedge
My life is a lie
fallen arch
Fix it and u’ll do more dam
bleak sedge
Using shiv even at max Cp is fine right?
oak sky
yeah
fallen arch
Yes
bleak sedge
Well atleast ive been doing that right haha
fallen arch
I don’t like it but it happens
bleak sedge
I mean its better than having to hold it because you had a mutilate crit
olive lion
To play sin well in keys, should I always be tabbing to new targets and getting dots up?
fleet anchor
Would recommend using mouseovers
fleet whale
to a certain point but not all targets
like you aren't gonna rupture 10 targets at once lol
bleak sedge
Would recommend using mouseovers
Tabbing is fine if you work with focus target on your cc spells
olive lion
Okay, get dots rolling on 4-5 targets and then focus aoe damage and dot upkeep?
shut garnet
whats the avg sin rogue simming atm, rough ballpark?
fleet anchor
Tabbing is fine if you work with focus target on your cc spells
Tabbing still has some disadvantages like losing your AAs against debuffed targets (e.g. Vendetta) and some other things
bleak sedge
Tabbing still has some disadvantages like losing your AAs against debuffed targe...
True. Mousover has disadvantages with weird models or big pulls though. Slimes at PF as a stupid example
fleet whale
tabbing can also be annoying and target things you don't really want to
doesn't happen all the time but when it does it is annoying
fleet anchor
Well, the advantage to mostly using mouseovers is you can always tab if you want to
If you don't have mouseovers set up you can't really use both as options 🙂
wild beacon
i use subterfuge to get garrote on 4 targets or so, then CT, then start getting ruptures on those 4. no idea if it's optimal but seems to work alright 
bleak sedge
i use subterfuge to get garrote on 4 targets or so, then CT, then start getting ...
Same. In inspired i dont though cuz i need more dmg on the inspired mob
fleet whale
3 ruptures might be enough tbh you'll have plenty of energy with 3 garrotes and 3 ruptures up
btw sin may have the biggest spec turnaround in a single expansion in the history of wow
started off SL barely beating tanks in dps... now it's one of the best st specs
cunning granite
and how did they do that lets roll back to cata
bleak sedge
Scaliiiiing
cunning granite
i tried to gearsim a bit
is it true that you can basicly ignore m+ loot?
i tried to find the best stuff of both worlds
wild beacon
started off SL barely beating tanks in dps... now it's one of the best st specs
i've only just started playing rogue so my parses aren't great, but it's good to have such a high ceiling to work towards now
fleet whale
the good thing about sin is that it's very user/player friendly
teaches the fundamentals well
fleet anchor
started off SL barely beating tanks in dps... now it's one of the best st specs
It was about 20% behind most specs at SL launch so yeah, it's pretty extreme to end up at the top end after that start
bleak sedge
is it true that you can basicly ignore m+ loot?
Phial coming for you
fleet anchor
I think you can live without Phial tbh
bleak sedge
Yes but it's insanely good
fleet anchor
Fusion Amplifier is probably BiS now anyway
bleak sedge
Its not as bad as in 9.0 though if you don't have it
teal bloom
But phial+fusion amplifier tho 😦
fleet whale
btw i haven't really been playing wow that much, how is that new dungeon trinket from the last boss?
cunning granite
bleak sedge
According to WoWhead phial is S and tarza trinket is A tier
low girder
they nerfed the crap out of it, it's not useful
fleet anchor
Ticking Sack is very useful right now, probably won't be long-term
low girder
ticking sack isn't last boss
fleet whale
the last boss trink you buff an ally secondary stat
and you get 100 of said secondary stat for 30 mins
low girder
yeah, it's not good, they nerfed it pretty hard before release
fleet anchor
Oh, yeah that one is just kinda so-so
low girder
needed to though
fleet whale
idk, i thought there could maybe be a fun gimmick where everyone has one
fleet anchor
I mean something also to consider
fleet whale
and you just buff everyone
fleet anchor
If you are at all raiding Mythic
M Ocular Gland really isn't that much behind upgraded Phial. Still behind GV Phial
bleak sedge
If i buff other people i will be lower in details. Sounds like a loss to me!
fleet whale
the oppulence ruby scenario
echo geyser
M Ocular Gland really isn't that much behind upgraded Phial. Still behind GV Phi...
isnt that kinda bait cause its simming with 100%
or are we talkin about lower uptime sims
fleet anchor
It's not really bait because you'll have the buff almost all the time even in raids
echo geyser
ah i thought it was mostly warriors etc
fleet anchor
I only had downtime of like 2.5% all of last week
fleet anchor
It's really rare you will be below 50% HP in a raid scenario for an extended period of time
fleet whale
i'm not a fan of the term "simbait" tbh
bleak sedge
Also phial isn't onuse so you won't get fucked by bad phase timings
fleet anchor
Outside of very specific mechanics
echo geyser
i'm not a fan of the term "simbait" tbh
well it depends on ur personal uptime right
fleet anchor
Well there's a param for simming whatever you feel is appropriate
fleet anchor
But there's no way 75/50 are relevant
echo geyser
nah but maybe 80 90?
bleak sedge
If u have that uptime it's time to swap to ffxiv lmao
fleet whale
it would be back in HFC against tyrant 😛
fleet anchor
There's not a single fight in the game where you would be below 50% for 50% of the fight haha
Right now
Somewhat ironically
fleet whale
Those fights are rare to begin with
cunning granite
by now i am looking out for phial and the crit haste ring out of the m15 vault
is that true?
fleet anchor
Basically
bleak sedge
Probably the worst fight for it is Eye 🤣
Could be kael aswell if you go down
fleet anchor
GV is far less valuable this season
So many dead slots
All the socket slots are basically a waste of space
bleak sedge
I don't have a single socket item atm. My logs went to shit.
fleet anchor
yeah it's a little depressing
bleak sedge
Went from 99 sylv nhc parse to 60
fleet whale
don't stress too much about logs
do what you need to do to help your team
that's the most important thing
fleet whale
Logs are something to strive for later down in the line
bleak sedge
Yeah same im playing for guild but good logs are a nice thing when you don't get loot lmao
fleet whale
but during progress, it's not that extremely important
you won't be getting oranges the first time you kill bosses lol
cunning granite
but the funny thing is me doesnt appear in details and in the end on top
cant compete with the burst
of my fellow guildies
bleak sedge
I was topping dmg in first week
deft obsidian
Can confirm chaos bane is straight busted 😂
Night and day leaving those without behind
fleet anchor
I mean you can only do your best relative to your raid
bleak sedge
Now we have hunters with bow and other people with 3 sockets
fleet anchor
Wouldn't worry about parses
But it is certainly frustrating
To be down like 1-1.5k dps just based on RNG
cunning granite
first i want to clear hc
pliant nest
whats the point of being in a guild that benches you if you get unlucky with loot?
fleet whale
why is sylvanas so hard on heroic
cunning granite
but i certanly love rog "bomb on you" > cloak "what bomb?"
bleak sedge
whats the point of being in a guild that benches you if you get unlucky with loo...
Huh? As as soon as we get to mythic we will have to optimize thw raid
And if the classes with utility also deal more dmg because they gor better loot then ima get benched.
pliant nest
no... that stuff is only necessary if youre competing for like world 100
cunning granite
but there will be still ppl doing mechanics
so do the mechanics then
they are anyway a dps loss
pliant nest
you dont need ideal setups or ideal gear for just clearing mythic
bleak sedge
Im not getting benched for every fight just for the dmg checks
pliant nest
by the time an average guild gets to damage checks, youve gotten so many items from weekly chest that gear wont be the deciding factor anymore
cunning granite
i am not mad about getting benched there is still hc where u can get gear
bleak sedge
Didn't happen yet though so idgaf. Ima get loot soon enough
bleak sedge
by the time an average guild gets to damage checks, youve gotten so many items f...
If we have the tools to make it easier why wouldn't we?
pliant nest
because its a shitty thing to do to your raid members
fleet anchor
@balmy condor btw you think I was memeing all this time, but I figured out how to get Obedience and MA playing nicely for DS sims today:
pliant nest
and its absolutely unnecessary
bleak sedge
because its a shitty thing to do to your raid members
Huh its really not that big of a deal if im missing for one or two fights
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> btw you think I was memeing all this time, but I figured ...
Why would I have thought that you were memeing about an optimization
fleet anchor
Because you were mad at me last week for suggesting MA was better than Subterfuge for dungeons 😄
balmy condor
Well I don’t like MA in keys, but I’m never mad because something is good
If it’s good then so be it
Fantastic
But it still feels awful
low girder
let me introduce you to necrolord sub M+
halcyon zealot
would you need to play MfD to make MA work in keys?
fleet anchor
No, MA works in keys because you get a lot of stealth openers
The bonus cases for MA vs. Subterfuge are pretty similar
teal bloom
with ma do you open with FoK? or mfd ct?
bleak sedge
I use MA in ToP titanic
carmine plank
Does anyone knows why the top assassins in raid are not using obedience?
bleak sedge
Because doom is slightly better in ST
harsh anchor
mental trout
just killed fate in a pug, got top 40 in Heroic! Thank you all! https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/96ap7MXw2PfNKzQJ#fight=35&type=damage-done
fleet anchor
Well I don’t like MA in keys, but I’m never mad because something is good
I'm pretty sure you made 
at me though 😛
balmy condor
fleet anchor
Always so
balmy condor
Leaked whispyr selfies
cunning granite
my m+ logs are all broken xD
fleet anchor
I've mostly been running M+ as Sub since my groups like to pull massive but gonna run some as Assassination tonight to test some stuff
Will put in the APL changes later tonight. Doesn't make any difference for ST sims though since it had to do with Garrote and some other timing factors
Also only really matters for Venthyr since it was more sensitive to the timing conditions of the cooldown list
(Short version is that ideally you only use CDs with MA when Garrote is already up but for Venthyr that is problematic because it leads to some funny timing cases)
balmy condor
Will put in the APL changes later tonight. Doesn't make any difference for ST si...
You wanna push the profile changes along with those? 
It’s just fusion amp instead of shadowgrasp
fleet anchor
Yeah I can update that
olive lion
How do you teach someone to play this spec if they’ve never seen it before
What’s the first thing you point them too
Because rotation guides only give an outline
balmy condor
What’s the first thing you point them too
You open spell book and tell them garrote rupture and slice 100% uptime, envenom otherwise, shiv vend and vanish on cooldown, and then you send them on their way
olive lion
Hahahaha I love that explanation
rancid warren
!pb
prisma monolithBOT
Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss
thorny pond
Echo hunter
cunning granite
there arent any bracers with crit and haste in m+? did i saw that right?
teal bloom
I don't think so
tame coyote
which legendary are you crafting on r6 first? obed or doom?
cunning granite
i would go for doomblade
but i am necro anyway
but i simmed my friend who is still vent and the damage is really maginal
fleet anchor
It won't matter until the week after next really
Right now it's arguable that some Necro setups are actually better
Due to Carver's Eye
pale plank
Just craft ur rank 4 for now, save ur cinders for later
fleet anchor
But once Venthyr gets its final tier ability, the gap will widen
cunning granite
i want renown 53
i am drinking the crimson vial in raid like on cd
right now
wild beacon
does cut to the chase trigger recuperator? i've been using nimble fingers so i can crimson vial more efficiently too
cunning granite
thats a real good question i dont have an answer for
balmy condor
recuperator heals you when you have the slice buff
cunning granite
that we know i think
balmy condor
okay
cunning granite
but 5 energy crimson vial is it more worth then recup?
fleet whale
use whatever you prefer
balmy condor
depends what "worth" is
5 energy every phial over the course of a fight might be an extra mutilate
so you can argue that running nimble fingers is a dps gain
even if it's like 5-10 dps or whatever
cunning granite
i think ill just wait untill renown 53 and never get an answer to that question
balmy condor
recup healing is really small as well
but at the end of the day
they're endurance conduits
pick whatever makes you feel better
their impact is basically unnoticable
the only real non-potency that I think you can argue matters right now is quick decisions for extra shadowsteps
and extra range
everything else is pretty much whatever
balmy condor
yes
cunning granite
mearly 1k dps
balmy condor
the most important thing is getting a high level unholy set bonus
cunning granite
i dont have the shards right now
soft shale
did you not have a kyrian?
upbeat needle
tank was Kyr
soft shale
did you use weapons on bosses only then?
shut garnet
do you actually play nightstalker in keys
soft shale
some people do
upbeat needle
I play subterfuge
I don't really see a reason for NS imo
Subterfuge triple empowered garrote out of stealth that also silences is
way too good
upbeat needle
idk whispyr them pins sayin somethin different 
teal bloom
oak canopy
does the heal from recuperator work on the cast of SnD or does it just care that you have SnD
upbeat needle
fuck it just play hidden blades
summer onyx
If taking crimson tempest to kill adds for a boss, is it worth it to apply crimson tempest ST in between add spawns or should I only use it for multiple adds?
Like Fatescribe
balmy condor
does the heal from recuperator work on the cast of SnD or does it just care that...
just the buff
man I thought that question went away
two in an hour
oak canopy
haha sorry but appreciate the answer!
balmy condor
np
was a very regular question in 9.0.5
people scared they wouldn't get their 20 hps from cut to the chase
oak canopy
LOL
viral locust
Long live Crimson Tempest.
short ravine
If taking crimson tempest to kill adds for a boss, is it worth it to apply crims...
Yes. Only outside of shiv windows. The crimson tempest dmg plus full dot dmg is worth more than a single envenom.
summer onyx
Alright, thank you
strange python
Let CT drop when shiv is up (iirc)
Ideally you wanna maintain envenom buff during shiv
cerulean nest
how do I sim a dom chestpiece (in my bags) with a blood shard in it compared to my current chest? having trouble
do i actually have to stick the shard in there for the sim to pick it up?
echo geyser
i mean if u only have 1 shard
then u cant have it in ur chest as well right
if u have more shards, pick all of them
in top gear
cerulean nest
i have the full unholy set equipped (helm, hands, feet). i also have a bek shard in my bags, and a 213 dom chest in my bags. i wanna see if that 213 chest + bek shard sims better than my current 226 chest
cerulean nest
oh oh i need to pick the unholies too
echo geyser
yes
balmy condor
nope
cerulean nest
perf
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uNxAuBsBRK4zTHhrmoamHt
God damn the set is almost 800 DPS
Do we have any math on which of the three DPS shards is the biggest damage? Figuring out which to upgrade first
teal bloom
You can sim different level shards in top gear
cerulean nest
God damn the set is almost 800 DPS
I know man lol I breached 8.5k last night at 232ilvl in sims
soft shale
you want to upgrade set to 5 first
then cor then bek
but bek rank 2 and 3 are really cheap
balmy condor
Do we have any math on which of the three DPS shards is the biggest damage? Figu...
;)
loud silo
I know man lol I breached 8.5k last night at 232ilvl in sims
how?
balmy condor
more domination shards
teal bloom
7.2k at 231 Sadge
loud silo
im 230 with only dps frost shard and only sim 7.1
balmy condor
im 230 with only dps frost shard and only sim 7.1
think about it like this right. I have 6 shards right now, and I'm missing 2 unholy and the frost dps gem
I sim 7.7k atm
cerulean nest
it's the shards, plus a shadow grasp, plus a 252 dagger
balmy condor
if I were to get a valored phial, and the 3 shards im missing, which are all personal loot
cerulean nest
not entirely fair
balmy condor
then I would be at 9k
I could legit log in tomorrow, grab a vault upgrade, do a plaguefall, and then pug a couple of normal raid bosses
and increase my damage by over 15%
in maybe 2 hours
cerulean nest
yup
that's the same draw of casinos lmao, "just pull the slot, who knows!"
it's within reach!
balmy condor
yeah except in casinos you could never win
in wow you can at least know you're getting there sorta
wild beacon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bKwNUDtAyC3rBkkfaoupwu
daaaamn
cerulean nest
unless youre Danny ocean
slow marsh
you can play all 3 talents in dungeons
yeet my favorite build is still NS MfD CT with MA leggo
loud silo
yeah except in casinos you could never win
idk man i have 16 H kills with no drops
cerulean nest
but yeah having valor immediately at the start of patch changes the dynamic so much
get to work right away on those filler pieces
echo geyser
zoldycks isnt seeing any real play in mythic SoD right? over doomblade
manic pebble
aside from the first boss, no
timid talon
what do I need to sacrifice to get the heroic sylvanas dagger in my vault
manic pebble
subscribe to her onlyfans
timid talon
i would do that without the dagger
balmy condor
idk man i have 16 H kills with no drops
It’s about 15% drops once a week per boss regardless of difficulty
I’ve full cleared normal both weeks now, so I’ve maxed my chances out
6 in 20 pretty lucky
loud silo
i have loot off prob every N boss
timid talon
I have all of the infinity stones now, so I cant really complain about loot now
I just have awful luck with weapons
tacit lichen
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
stone gate
Should I use the AoE spec when doing thorgast/dungeons etc?
balmy condor
yep
violet hemlock
Any rested area
violet hemlock
Torgast is rested
static glacier
how come there's virtually no logs using dashing scoundrel considering it's neck and neck with doomblade?
slow marsh
use it then
craggy basin
crit vers for sin/sub obe right?
echo geyser
how come there's virtually no logs using dashing scoundrel considering it's neck...
is it?
isnt it cause doomblade does more st and dashing is worse than zoldycks for aoe purposes noone crafts it?
dim temple
When playing with new legendary for m+ are u stil use use the same talents as when u use zok?
Zoldy
pseudo pilot
what makes obedience higher than doomblade now?
kind veldt
Does anyone know the max soul cinders for week 2 without mission table stuff? x_x
balmy condor
it's always been higher :)
echo geyser
balmy condor
Does anyone know the max soul cinders for week 2 without mission table stuff? x_...
wanna say 1100?
maybe 1200
idk
cobalt pelican
1190 total
soft shale
no idea tbh
echo geyser
what makes obedience higher than doomblade now?
wasnt that the previous 1% per stack obed tho?
or is it simming higher now u mean
soft shale
table stonks i have 1344
pseudo pilot
its higher now
balmy condor
no
it's not
it's been like this
everyone just wants to play doomblade because doomblade
echo geyser
lean fossil
doomblade is king!
balmy condor
doomblade and obedience have been virtually identical since the 0.5% change
and now people are surprised
sonic schooner
but why now tiny toxic blade is bad? 😔
static glacier
only notable difference between them is the intervals in which they provide damage
cobalt pelican
i've not seen obedience not be like 1% behind on any profile that's not juiced out of it's mind
static glacier
and obedience ~~scaling ~~putting more effort into multitarget
static glacier
lmao
sonic schooner
oh no no no no 
static glacier
doomed.
static glacier
i sed s wurd
balmy condor
i've not seen obedience not be like 1% behind on any profile that's not juiced o...
yeah I mean vers on bigger trinkets = bigger, sylvanas dagger effects + vers = bigger
kinda makes sense
more gear also means more stacks
so instead of like 20 stacks average, you get 25
kind veldt
I feel like my opener is pretty scuffed and I never get too many stacks with blindside+DS, only opener though
cause no alac stacks
slow marsh
are you not garrote after ma window
proven hollow
Is there a place here I can have some experts look at a log and tell me why I'm shit. I didn't used to be. I am now. Help 🙂
kind veldt
@proven hollow link them, people will give advice, biggest thing is uptime on rup and garrote.
proven hollow
I feel like I'm decent there. If anyone is willing to take a look thanks ahead of time.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ytDk4ZHF3T8BVvwb#fight=7&type=damage-done&source=13
slow marsh
your uptime on the first two mobs is bad
30% bleeduptime on both is why you didn't do well
23% uptime for garrote
proven hollow
how do you see that, i see the total time, how do you see what you are seeing
proven hollow
I was going to say, I must have had a stroke then, because I though I did okay there
cobalt pelican
logs aren't weird the mobs just die lol, just filter to phase
strange python
I kinda wanna upgrade phial even though vault is the morning
cobalt pelican
i'm sure you're gonna be doing some crazy stuff between now and then
dim yacht
can soggodons aoe in m+ be evaded or cloaked?
strange python
i'm sure you're gonna be doing some crazy stuff between now and then
Remnant and nerzhul probs
slow marsh
you actually have 6 DHs in that fight lol
slow marsh
seems fine though. I would imagine it's just having 220 daggers, no war shout, and maybe mechanics
all that combined with the big influx of sin rogues these last couple weeks
proven hollow
okay, thanks friends, makes me feel a bit better
slow marsh
yeah i would say the only fault i can see at face value is not syncing every other flag with vendetta
but that's still something being worked out by people cough me for example
proven hollow
Yea, i need to work on my UI for that. Make a wa for it now, thanks
polar ice
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
hot stag
Are the balls and spikes on painsmith cloakable?
balmy condor
no
slow marsh
i think best use of cloak on painsmith is tank mechanic raid dmg or traps
balmy condor
traps for sure
slow marsh
ye either way it's usually just popping for the sake of helping the healers and not wasting cds
if group hits traps too quick everyone is dying anyways so no point there
I guess it could be used during intermission if you mess up and are gonna get hit by flames too
sinful citrus
can soggodons aoe in m+ be evaded or cloaked?
Yes you can evasion it
iron plover
Is Syvlanas gear on the timewalking loot cache?
sinful citrus
All raid gear is seen a hunter get the bow
balmy condor
Is Syvlanas gear on the timewalking loot cache?
if you killed sylvanas, yes
I believe the cache works just like the vault
where you need to actually kill KT/Sylv for the loot to show up
iron plover
cool cool ty
i recall my war getting devastation's hour in nya'lotha out of one of those
clever cliff
Back for 9.1 and planning on mythic raiding for CE and m+. Swapping to assa from outlaw, what's recommendation for first legendary? Doomblade or new venthyr one?
final sky
what weapon enchants do i want as sin in raid
final sky
sin in main hand?
severe sparrow
KT feels gross as sin 
soft shale
balmy condor
KT feels gross as sin <:SadCat:588837905716346899>
KT feels gross*
fixed that for you
final sky
nah i think it would be fun as outlaw
gusty mirage
<:pepelaff2:840855895328030740>
balmy condor
it's just not a fun fight man
gusty mirage
how is it not fair
final sky
i think assa should be on top
gusty mirage
that's cool
final sky
blizzard should make us top
balmy condor
<:pepelaff:840855894879371285>
final sky
idk ive always seen it as a pvp spec
gusty mirage
good thing assa was the good pvp spec for like.... all of bfa until 8.3
balmy condor
idk ive always seen it as a pvp spec
my respect for you dropping rapidly 
final sky
:c
final sky
maybe im just being salty cause of the amount of times ive been ganked by a sub rogue
final sky
rly?
final sky
i see way more sub rogues in pvp
balmy condor
sin is the spec of choice, and has been for like
5 years
minus the short time sin sucked at the start of this expac, and some cheese stuff during legion
final sky
i didnt play rogue in legion ;-;
timid talon
getting orange and pink parses without daggers feels good, cant wait to catch up in gear with these LUCKERS with double daggers already
final sky
played mage until about a month ago
strange python
getting orange and pink parses without daggers feels good, cant wait to catch up...
I got a single weapon from my vault all last season and not a single weapon token. And I'm still planting near pinks with a 226 and 220.
I know the feel
tribal marlin
I don't kill bosses so I don't have parses 😦
gusty mirage
I don't kill bosses so I don't have parses 😦
you too? 
keen pike
If you plan on using your pic as an ability you def won’t parse
tribal marlin
Rip Sepsis 😦
strange python
Not a single persons dp compares to mine. Except that weird doppleganger I had for a bit...
Where's our doppleganger skill blizz!?
slow marsh
i think assa should be on top
funny how just 3 months ago this was the complete opposite
spice spire
<:smilers:819527472554180648>
God gamer though
Normal run tonight kinda cring, but was fun to give people gear. we're finally foregoing normal altogether on Wednesday 
hollow river
is it worth socketing gear with agi gems?
clever cliff
or also sub
probably both but happy to start with sin and keep outlaw for m+
balmy condor
is it worth socketing gear with agi gems?
no
balmy condor
probably both but happy to start with sin and keep outlaw for m+
doomblade it is
tribal marlin
If you are new / come back to Rogue and want to play Outlaw in any kind of content, I suggest you to one-trick Outlaw in all content
strange python
I could have upgraded my first leggo Zoldyck next week to 235 from 210 but instead I crafted a 210 doomblade for raiding, was this a stupid move? Thought I need those 2 and upgrade from there 😄
pale fossil
You know you can infinitely farm soul ash now?
strange python
yeah I tried layer 1 to see if it works but it only gave me like 30 ash lol
hollow river
no
Kk wondered why I never saw anyone use them. I’m starting to see why you told me +20s are easier than mythic raid now. I think it was just sin in keys, I’m dogshit (:
Sub so ez
timid talon
You know you can infinitely farm soul ash now?
at the lightning speed rate of 190 per reclear
or i guess via alts at a 300 to 250 ratio
timid talon
I just did a layer 9 on my 3 alts and mailed it all over to recraft everything to cloak
it wasnt so bad
clever cliff
If you are new / come back to Rogue and want to play Outlaw in any kind of conte...
why do you suggest this
tribal marlin
Because Outlaw has a significantly higher learning curve progression when it comes to muscle memory etc...
tribal marlin
So OTP on outlaw will makes you better at outlaw, faster.
clever cliff
Ahh gotcha - I played outlaw all of 9.0
balmy condor
hollow river
Notrick pony better
timid talon
I hate that you cant cloak and soak veil
on sylvanas
running out and tossing daggers it is 
tiny bramble
do we want rank 6 on gloves? leather hands have a dom socket from raid
for gloomblade
balmy condor
no
no no no
no gloves
everything on cape/belt/legs
#assassination-faq has the recommendations
balmy condor
no problems homie
wicked obsidian
i have a dumb question, on the assassination faq it says we just shiv off CD, do we just rupture during shiv if its about to expire anyways? or is it better to get the envenom off in the shiv window and rupture the next finisher?
thorn prism
on both heroic painsmith and heroic guardian tonight, I keep having one cp bone spikes when the dot is on the boss? that's not intended, is it? and is there anything I can do to make it like not happen
wicked obsidian
yea ive had times when rupture is expiring when shiv is coming up, do i rupture and then shiv? do i hold shiv for near when i have max CP?
balmy condor
you just shiv on cooldown
as long as rupture is ticking
if you have to refresh during shiv, do it
don't cast it out of pandemic or anything like that
wicked obsidian
gotcha thanks for the answer, much appreciated
kind veldt
hrm, anyone else having trouble getting a good amount of stacks on opener when using BS+DS??
Raid bots keeps telling me crit is worth more than haste for me though
Need the alac stacks for a goodd flag
balmy condor
how many do you consider "a good amount"
fleet anchor
Ok Assassination profiles and APL changes are in for the nightly build, so should be good to see how things shake out tomorrow.
fleet anchor
Yes I changed that as well
novel arrow
@balmy condor Hey Whispyr, I wanted to ask if there was any info on doing a 5 point rupture on an immune to damage target just for the energy regen. If it's worth. For example, Remnant's orbs before they can be damaged. Lets assume the rupture target is perma immune. Would it be worth The energy ticks for 5 combos.
fleet anchor
I had to do all the Fusion Amp testing when I got one last week so most of the SimC changes were based on that 😛
novel arrow
Couldn't find any info on it.
balmy condor
Yes I changed that as well
legend
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> Hey Whispyr, I wanted to ask if there was any info on do...
yep, that's worth it
fleet anchor
Has lead to some really funny findings about proc flags 😛
balmy condor
@novel arrow an example from last tier for example is we would garrote and rupture another boss, even though it healed back to full, because that garrote/rupture increased our priority damage
nimble tartan
ooo does it work for immune targets tho if the dam dont happen
balmy condor
yeah it's energy on tick, not damage
novel arrow
Thanks @balmy condor . I thought so too. Just wanted a second opinion. tyty
balmy condor
np
manic harness
do yall think 262 capes are going to be more or less expensive tomorrow?
pale fossil
<@!201883219396657153> an example from last tier for example is we would garrote...
I remember this being a thing on Council
balmy condor
I remember this being a thing on Council
was also a thing during SLG intermissions
thin trout
Anyone got tips for eye of the jailer how to shadowstep properly?
balmy condor
Anyone got tips for eye of the jailer how to shadowstep properly?
learn where the step goes, commit to memory, then wait until the beam is past that
heady kayak
learn where the step goes, commit to memory, then wait until the beam is past th...
Does it actually always step roughly to the middle? I have been to scared to try
balmy condor
it's off center
fleet anchor
Front left
balmy condor
if you're hugging the wall, staring at the boss straight on, it's about a 45 degree angle off to the left
arctic walrus
7-8 o'clock position
rocky ruin
@balmy condor at Sin FAQ the second post about finishing. Is still 4-5 CP right I'm kinda misreading cause is still early in Germany or kinda stupid atm
manic harness
The eye's "back" that you Shadowstep to is just to the left of him if you are facing him
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> at Sin FAQ the second post about finishing. Is still 4-5 ...
Max-1 is 4cp with vigor/mfd, 5 with deeper
rocky ruin
Ahh okay was kinda confused after i read it
thin trout
do you guys ever finish with max-2 CP if you are in flaggelation zone?
to get 2/3 extra stacks for it
balmy condor
damn
if only we were talking about the exact question in the FAQ
that answers literally that
that would be crazy
thin trout
oh lol okay sorry never knew it even existed 😄 been her more thana year
balmy condor
it's new
thin trout
thanks, the faq says to start it at max-1, but what im asking is that if im at 3CP and the debuff is about to run out on the target and i only can get 1 GCD in, dO i go for a finisher or just multilate because we only use finisher -1 rule?
for those 3/4 second extra reduction for obedience
balmy condor
thin trout
now i just have to decide wether to make obedience or doomblade on the 262 cloak 😄
strange python
huh didnt realize sin had its own version of sniping with rupture
balmy condor
yeh
if a mob dies with rupturing on it, you get a bunch of energy back
depending on how long of a rupture is on there
timid pond
damn i'm in between recrafting doom or crafting obed on the cloak. Sims seem very close unsure what to go for
strange python
Anyone recommend a good multidot bleed tracker WA?
keen dome
Obedience might be more versatile for MM+ and other specs
keen dome
According to pins and faqs, obedience is the play
exotic rose
Hey guys, is MA leggo on dungeons a bit ahead than zoldyac for Night Elves?
balmy condor
No
balmy condor
I guess
civic trellis
Regarding the flag/vendetta sync in #assassination-faq. Does it mean that if syncing flag with vendetta will make us lose a flag cast, then we use flag in cd until it lines up naturally with vendetta, instead of forcing it?
potent chasm
What do you prefer for m+? Sub or Assa? Can't decide 😅
stiff thicket
We can't choose for you 🙂
It's up to you
i run assa
but try both and find what you enjoy the most
rich yew
What do you prefer for m+? Sub or Assa? Can't decide 😅
I find assa more enjoyable in mist + top, run sub in the other dungeons :D. But that is personal preference
balmy condor
Regarding the flag/vendetta sync in <#856136418170896404>. Does it mean that if ...
it just means to either hold flag for vend, or vend for flag, if you won't lose a cast doing so
like if the fight is 5 minutes, you're going to get 3 vendettas
so if you're playing obed
and you got flags at 0, 1:10, 2:20
you can just hold the vend for 2:20
kindred crescent
Got any tips for getting high flag stacks on assas?
thin trout
besides using vendetta and pooling energy? get a PI? =p
arctic walrus
Just don’t go into it with low energy, anything above 20 is fine
halcyon tapir
I'm trying to sim 233 Edge of Night as my offhand, but its showing its only 1 dps higher than my m+ 233 offhand, am i using the correct string: off_hand=,id=186398,enchant_id=6228,bonus_id=4822/4786
balmy condor
I'm trying to sim 233 Edge of Night as my offhand, but its showing its only 1 dp...
yep looks good to me
sims a 3% up
as expected
link your sim?
crystal blaze
just after
crystal blaze
if the last safe zone is close to the boss just pop it tho
rocky pecan
you can like look where first spawn
if safe you vendetta and you udelay cos
if one is to far
and it's done :d
soft shale
you can cloak one cast
rocky pecan
it's enough
soft shale
u can also backstep
summer onyx
for m+ what's more important, using shiv or keeping bleeds on 5 targets?
summer onyx
alright, thanks
fallen arch
Because of the extra nature dam
radiant fossil
Guys, is it dumb to craft obedience r6 tomorrow since im playing assa in raid (progress mm) and sub in m+ ? My main "content" is mythic raid. Or i should craft doomblade no matter what for pure pve raid 
radiant fossil
Me personnaly, both. But we are 3 rogues in our roster and they will craft doomblade. I dont want to craft obedience and deal less because i'll be the benched one. I know the sims says obe is kinda close to doomblade, but in reality i dont know
crystal blaze
I did my first mythic kills with obe, still doing 95+ parse
but i'll still get back to doomblade next week
balmy condor
is it possible to r6 tomorrow?
fallen arch
Ye I was wondering too
frosty bridge
Ye r6 tomorrow
final ferry
Can someone help me, I have green ilvl parses in raid and I don't understand why. I don't know what I am doing wrong since it looks like I'm doing the right rotation
frosty bridge
Can someone help me, I have green ilvl parses in raid and I don't understand wh...
Send dem logs
nimble tartan
dam im only like 4k in rank 5
limber lion
I'm not even r5 :)
azure bronze
codex rep is just so RNG
People in my guild who have killed everything together have like 4-5k rep differences
radiant fossil
name something not rng in wow 🙂
summer onyx
for subterfuge on bosses in m+ that are ST, should i open with a double garrote to get the extra pandemic duration or is it not worth it?
teal bloom
Not worth
quaint carbon
name something not rng in wow 🙂
Having to pay every month 
spiral escarp
do we need the rep to be able to get a r6 lege? I though only crafters need to grind that shit?
Like can't we just buy it from AH?
cause I'm so slacky at rep layer 3 still 🙄
crystal blaze
yes you can buy it
fallen arch
for subterfuge on bosses in m+ that are ST, should i open with a double garrote ...
Dont
spiral escarp
you only need cinders and ash to get the leggo
I see, that's a relief! ty!
rocky pecan
next monday i'm r6 archivist
there is prolly already r6 on reset since we win almost 3K
manic pebble
for keys Obedience or Zoldyck legendary? whihc u recommend more mates?
Zoldycks, easier to use
fallen arch
is the leech or stone ward better to take?
Stone ward
fallen arch
for keys Obedience or Zoldyck legendary? whihc u recommend more mates?
Zoldyck for me, but I’m necro
manic pebble
Crit haste
open aspen
do we use weekly or nightly sims?
odd hazel
for keys Obedience or Zoldyck legendary? whihc u recommend more mates?
Obedience if your venthyr, zold other wise
bleak sky
morning yall, 
you'll all get 252 phials
bless thy vault with phials, totems and weapons
winged basin
I need something good 
strange python
for zoldyk and doom blade. What slot should we craft in? Amd with what stats?
limber lion
Crit/haste is fine for both.
odd hazel
Morning cev /wave
limber lion
fallen arch
bless thy vault with phials, totems and weapons
Pls not all of those at once
That be horrible
Use all your seasonal luck for one vault
hollow river
Yeah echo just took it home
leaden garden
What are the leather dom slots?
bleak sky
Head
Shoulder
Chest
Hands
Feet
quaint carbon
knees and toes
hollow river
Kinda sucks that’s a lot of our gear from m+ is useless this tier
No point upgrading the 236 boots I got last night
hollow river
True
Less valor needed so you can funnel it to “bis”
Now to figure out which items to target will be bis surrounding the mythic gear
winged basin
GG EU EU EU EU EU
bleak sky
Now to figure out which items to target will be bis surrounding the mythic gear
phial, iqd, totem most likely
strange python
Obedience if your venthyr, zold other wise
and what about Doomblade?
bleak sky
and what about Doomblade?
don't run doomblade in keys
hollow river
phial, iqd, totem most likely
Yeah ik
Wondering how the tazavesh trinket and Guardian trinket stack up against those trinkets
Lol..
odd hazel
gaurdian trink is the best then phial then totem and IQD i believe
spice spire
Guardian trinket is really good. Pretty sure it’s the trinket used in sim
hollow river
I thought IQD was bis assa
odd hazel
its good if your venth and have high crit
hollow river
Maybe guardian changed that
Atm I’m 36 crit 8 haste 41 mastery(sub) 11 vers
Feelsweirdman
But I play sub in keys anyway so it’s pretty good
odd hazel
hollow river
Daang lol
Are those numbers % of dps?
And amp is on use right
We start heroic guardian tomorrow. Full normal reclear tonight.
Here’s hoping for 3 UH shards and an amp
modest jasper
It's pretty good trinket, ngl
north basin
Got 3 uh shards and 1 dps frost and amp from normal, 8k dps easy from 7300 lewl
hollow river
Wonder if higher APM gives it more procs
solar willow
Hey Guys!
Actually im playing with sin for raid and outlaw for m+, but i want to improve in high keys (17+) and thinking to change sub rogue for m+. My question is, the rogue sub its good for high keys? My gear actually is very good for sub, for this im thinking change xd
Other question, what legendary is the best for m_
M+
hollow river
Hey Guys!
Actually im playing with sin for raid and outlaw for m+, but i want to...
Sub is great for certain dungeons/if your tank pulls heavily.
north basin
Top keys played by outlaw (20) mostly, sub and sin just almost equal under 20)
solar willow
My actually gear have no versa (outlaw cries)... but a i can push ~25% crit and ~45% mastery
odd hazel
shouldnt look at top keys, all 3 can play well. Sub is more the ngood
hollow river
Hey Guys!
Actually im playing with sin for raid and outlaw for m+, but i want to...
DoS, HoA, SD and MoTS are good sub dungeons. Sub target cap is 8 targets.
Oh and NW
Is great
frosty cedar
sin is big dam in key
hollow river
I’d stay outlaw for ToP, SoA and Plaguefall probably
hollow river
Hey Guys!
Actually im playing with sin for raid and outlaw for m+, but i want to...
And Finality is best for keys.
solar willow
my sin was good, but for keys its so hard do AoE damage 😦
solar willow
And Finality is best for keys.
Thanks bro!
I will craft and try some dungeons for training
odd hazel
sin is easy to do AoE damage
marble garnet
I saw a Chinese player streaming a +20 SD as outlaw with new bonespike legendary rank 5 and he was playing outlaw. I thought everyone said bonespike was trash. He did like almost 11k overalll
frosty cedar
ye u just put bleed on all
odd hazel
I saw a Chinese player streaming a +20 SD as outlaw with new bonespike legendary...
it is t rash, the best one for outlaw is celerity
hollow river
I saw a Chinese player streaming a +20 SD as outlaw with new bonespike legendary...
Deathspike is not good compared to other legendaries.
snow forge
Do you symc amplifier trinket with vendetta or just slam on CD?
hollow river
That guy could already have is unholy shards and good gear. And just be a good player
hollow river
Do you symc amplifier trinket with vendetta or just slam on CD?
Slam on CD
marble garnet
Unholy set doesn’t work in dungeons
marble garnet
I mean there are more dps shards than the unholy one
hollow river
I know that...
marble garnet
And sims don’t equate to real world gameplay always
hollow river
I’ve watched someone play deathspike
marble garnet
I mean echo just won with NF druids lul
hollow river
I’ve watched someone very good play deathspike
And they did less dps
Than with celerity
hollow river
Nf druids are good still
They’re okay yeah
hollow river
I mean echo just won with NF druids lul
That’s based on ease of use not actual throughput
odd hazel
And sims don’t equate to real world gameplay always
Sims do equate to that though, we sim for a good reason
you should always be aiming to be as close as possible to what you sim at
hollow river
Yep
Sure sometimes sims have tiny optimizations that get made throughout the tiers, but overall you can trust what things sim at for an outlook on what’s best
Deathspike isn’t gonna randomly come out better than all the other options because of +/- 100 dps in optimizations
odd hazel
its just odd to me that people always try to argue against sims
marble garnet
I wasn’t arguing against sims
odd hazel
a good player can play with any leggo and do fine
especially with somthing like outlaw
celerity is still the better option for them
rather you want to play it or not
¯_(ツ)_/¯
marble garnet
My point was it was weird to craft a rank 5 bonespike if everyone said it was bad
bleak sky
I mean echo just won with NF druids lul
echo*
marble garnet
True^
alpine garden
Just had to check what channel I was in
odd hazel
a rogue one
buoyant schooner
is nadjia doom still bis for raid?
vestal wren
buoyant schooner
ok, because I´m still not sure if I´ll stay vent and until last week I was necro so this will b e my first vent raif
raid*
hollow talon
hey just wondering, what is the reason sin rogues are doing so well on the eye of the jailer boss?
both heroic and mythic
wet galleon
High uptime from shadowstep+cleave on adds. Pretty much built for us
I was like 1000dps higher than next on my heroic kill
deft obsidian
Eye is pretty solid tbf, specifically mythic with the abductors being up longer. And yeh the beam is w/e to us
dark isle
whats the correct way to use shadowgrasp totem, just use it on cd?
crystal blaze
on cd with vendetta
plain thistle
on cd, doesnt matter with or without vendetta
solar willow
Hey guys, what is the best legendary for assassination in dungeonslice?
raven vapor
if i'm planning to play sin+sub what would be the best stats for an obedience cloak, crit+haste or crit+vers?