assassination

[whole skiff]

Also vigor is easier for progression.

[narrow ravine]

and for your sanity

[craggy basin]

yea i guess the prog part i wasnt thinking of

dont have to worry about actually taking advantage of DS

[solid venture]

bs / ds usually doesn't sim that much higher anyway

[whole skiff]

You can pump harder with stratgem, but requires more focus. For prog, mechanics > dps

[teal bloom]

for necro the difference is so small that it doesn't really matter which you play

[ionic vault]

hello, I just recently switched to sin, where can I see the opening rotation on boss fights?

[whole skiff]

Warcraft logs. Just look through some of the top performers.

[versed mica]

You use shiv on cd

The end

Smash smash smash

Overcap combo points

[craggy basin]

yea , so for EP over BS is that a preference or what

or always ep with vigor

since more regen is more finishers

[teal bloom]

you can always easily always play ep/vigor but on pure single target without any adds bs/ds is a bit better

[versed mica]

DS will always hit harder in st once you have a good amount of haste

[whole skiff]

Don't use shiv on cd.... Use it on CD when you have combo points already. Don't use shiv as your first point, try to get 2-3 envenoms per shiv.

[craggy basin]

yea , which was what i was thinking that Venth in general would go DS cuz of haste buff

[torpid roost]

Why do we use shiv?

[craggy basin]

mini TB buff

[versed mica]

False, you always use it on cd, holding it is a DPS loss

[torpid roost]

TB?

[craggy basin]

toxic blades

[whole skiff]

Increases your envenom dmg.

[craggy basin]

they took the toxic blade buff and built it into shiv

[crystal blaze]

I can't sim doomblade on back

[torpid roost]

" Shiv now also increases your Nature damage done against the target by 20% for 9 sec."

is that the interaction?

[whole skiff]

Yes

[crystal blaze]

What am i missing

[torpid roost]

okay cool thanks

[whole skiff]

Envenom = poison dmg

[torpid roost]

yep makes sense, glossed over that part of tooltip and new to sin

[versed mica]

Yes but you still hit shiv on cd

[crude jetty]

It's the bloodstained one.

[versed mica]

Even if you have to overcap combo points

[whole skiff]

I think you're wrong bae

[hollow river]

This is incorrect

[crystal blaze]

Nice ty

[versed mica]

@balmy condor who's right

[hollow river]

U shiv on CD

[teal bloom]

Slam the shiv on cd

[hollow river]

Doesn’t matter when

As long as rupture is ticking

On your target

Number of envenoms

Is irrelevant

[torpid roost]

did my first key last night and didnt use shiv atall, thats a huge debuff to not apply RIP

its kinda hard keeping track of all the dots on so many trash i need a better plater profile

[craggy basin]

only time i ever hold shiv is in dungeon if im the one to purge enrage

otherwise i spam that shit

[versed mica]

Slam 👏 that 👏 m 👏f 👏 shiv 👏 on 👏 cd

[torpid roost]

does anyone have a nice plater profile they use? my debuffs keep overlapping on each other and i cant see some of them

[delicate smelt]

Hey, i have Doomblade R4. Today i finished renown 48 and received Obedience. Keep Doomblade R4 before i will have enough Soul cinder for R6 Obedience or craft right now Obedience R4 and keep saving for later upgrade to R6?

[whole skiff]

Wow that's interesting, what is the dps loss holding for a couple seconds to get cp for envenom? I have multiple top 10 world parses by holding shiv for multiple envenoms.

[delicate smelt]

btw, i am venth

[craggy basin]

couple seconds prob nothing asp

[hollow river]

That’s a question for a CF

But I promise you

[nimble tartan]

its very very minimal

[hollow river]

You slam on CD

[craggy basin]

id imagine when ppl think holding shiv they imagine 5+ seconds which would be a big loss in the end, IMO

[nimble tartan]

i do think there are times for fight specific scenarios where holding for a tiny bit is better

[azure bronze]

Doomblade on what slot?

[craggy basin]

cloak

[delicate smelt]

Shoulders

[nimble tartan]

general rule of sending is simple and good as well

[hollow river]

I treat shiv and another debuff

[craggy basin]

dont craft legos on dom socket slots

[hollow river]

Even if I’m about to move away

[whole skiff]

Yeah for sure, I usually do 1 extra mutilate before shiv.

[azure bronze]

You probably want to recraft doomblade on cloak at some point

[hollow river]

I slam shiv

[versed mica]

If it's a super short cheese fight holding it may be better

[hollow river]

Since it buffs poisons

Sludgefist

Is the ONLY case

[ionic vault]

do you envenom at maxcp-1 ?

[hollow river]

Where you hold shiv

[hollow river]

Yes

All finishers at max-1

[azure bronze]

Does anyone else have that necro is now outsimming venthyr on ST for some reason on raidbots?

[hollow river]

If you end up on max cp from like a garrote giving you 1 cp, that’s fine

[nimble tartan]

i like holding and sending and i like never pooling …

[whole skiff]

I sometimes envenom at 2 cp as well if flagellation is about to transition, to build extra stacks.

[nimble tartan]

pressing buttons sick as hell beo

[delicate smelt]

i already have Doomblade on shoulders. I have two backs for lego in bag

[opaque karma]

are we phantomfire and oil or sharpening stone with agility pots?

[hollow river]

This is basically =/=

[ionic vault]

Also if you are not running subterfuge because raid, do you still open with garrote or ambush? and what order do you pop rupture and snd?

[hollow river]

No gain no loss

[nimble tartan]

i run sharpenings and agis in raid

[ionic vault]

would you wanna to ambush, shiv, envenom to benefit fromt he master assassin buff window?

[hollow river]

Never open with ambush

[nimble tartan]

personally never cared for pf

[ionic vault]

ty

[delicate smelt]

yes i know. I just cant decide if its worth to craft R4 Obedience and swap with R4 Doomblade which i already have

[hollow river]

Never use ambush unless using blindside talent

[opaque karma]

u open with mut

[azure flare]

Get it on cloak whenever u can spare the soul ash

[hollow river]

Or SBS if necro

[craggy basin]

i recrafted rank4s off dom sockets no matter what

[balmy condor]

you'd be surprised how many top players don't play optimally

[craggy basin]

all 3 specs i swapped to cloak/neck if possible for legos

[nimble tartan]

true!! the most important thing to do to get top logs is to have fun tbh..

[cunning oracle]

@balmy condor is there a reason a normal edge of night would sim 100+ dps lower than a 229 in offhand?

[ionic vault]

so if you open up with garrote and youre running master assassin, would you garrote-shiv-envenom or garrote-mut-snd/rup ?

[cold rampart]

how come 200 ilvl lashing scars and well placed steel is better than 226 lethal posions

[halcyon zealot]

can you link that sim @cunning oracle

[hollow river]

Personally I never use subterfuge in raid only in dungeons

[halcyon zealot]

you’ve struck my curiosity

[ionic vault]

I dont either, thats why I said with master assassin

[cunning oracle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9dbrZHLGJ6PiWgWCqL1PZ1

[hollow river]

Ooh

[hollow river]

Mut, snd, mut, gar, rupture, mut, envenom

[ionic vault]

basically im wondering if you open up and then shiv/envenom during the master assassin window or you just go for snd/ruptuire

[hollow river]

Mut to max -1 cp every time except@for SnD

[void needle]

I noticed that my sim was rupturing with 4 CP with EP, is this recommended? All I've read from most guides is never finish below 5.

[hollow river]

I shiv after rupture

[ionic vault]

👌🏻

[hollow river]

U want rupture ticking

Before u use shiv

[cold rampart]

how come 200 ilvl lashing scars and well placed steel is better than 226 lethal posions or did i sim it wrong

[hollow river]

Always finish at max -1

[deft wagon]

I see people on logs still just using doomblade, is obi not really being used?

[cold rampart]

everyone is too poor to buy that shit

[hollow river]

Unless u crit proc/shiv for +1/garrote for +1

[delicate smelt]

so with Blind and Master Assa opener is Muti?

[hollow river]

Never mut or FoK at -1 from max

[cold rampart]

what about shiv?

[teal bloom]

@cold rampart Lashing scars is the best conduit rogue has and well placed steel is really good single target conduit. lethal poisons gains value with more targets

[hollow river]

Shiv U can use even if max already

Slam it on CD

[cold rampart]

okkkk

i knew it

[hollow river]

As long as rupture is on your target

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[hollow river]

^^^^^^^^^^these are dope

[obsidian socket]

Fellas what is a snapshot and also why let it fall off

[glacial sequoia]

nightstalker buffs the dmg for the entire duration

[hollow river]

Oh dear god

[glacial sequoia]

if you reapply it during the pandemic window you overwrite the buffed dmg with a normal damage one

[hollow river]

Ah I saw exsanguinate

And was ready to peace out

[glacial sequoia]

its the same, doubles the tickrate for the duration, if you overwrite it you loose part of the buff

[hollow river]

I know

[cold rampart]

are we getting any buff later?

[glacial sequoia]

but hey its exsanguinate, not like it matters 😄

[hollow river]

Exactly

[hollow river]

Why would we?

[deft rampart]

On tarragrue, how does overgrowth seedling work?

[cold rampart]

aoe man

[hollow river]

We are one of the top classes in dps atm

[deft rampart]

does it affect our energy costs?

[glacial sequoia]

3 top speccs 😄

[balmy condor]

no enchant

[lost eagle]

Can assassination work with dagger mh sword oh?

[hollow river]

I kinda doubt it tbh. Sim is fine in aoe. Just not the best.

[balmy condor]

no

[hollow river]

No

[balmy condor]

100% no

it disables mutilate

[strange python]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hollow river]

The amount of people who say you can use swords as subtlety

Really triggers me

[whole skiff]

You can, for pvp.

[hollow river]

Sure thing

Don’t see the point even in pvp

[whole skiff]

Higher burst for the initial auto attack

Only works for meme comps

Else run 2x daggers

[hollow talon]

is anyone being cheap and not making a rank 5 leggo, going straight for rank 6

only 500 cinder more

[whole skiff]

No

[hollow river]

Either way I was talking about people saying you can for pve

[tribal spear]

hey guys. can you help me analyze again? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LjMFZanvCkQ12w69#fight=18&type=damage-done&source=36

i dont understand, how this is a grey (19) log. do i do significant mistakes? i mean some shivs here and uptime there. but this fight felt pretty good for me and iam completly disappointed. maybe someone can help

[hollow river]

You “can” sure but like

Ouch

[hollow river]

Just means other rogues were doing bigger dam

[delicate bone]

damn that kill timer is actually pretty good for assa too

oh wait nvm

[hollow river]

Only cast shiv 10 times

In a 5 minute fight

[delicate bone]

i was looking at a different number, ignore me 😮

[hollow river]

Should be like 19-20 shivs

[delicate bone]

yea shiv is a 25 sec cd

[whole skiff]

Get a new trinket urgently.

[glacial sequoia]

@hollow river
how does that work out in math?

[delicate bone]

actually it should be 12 shivs max

[whole skiff]

Get the shadow totem from DOS to go alongside your phial

[delicate bone]

so 10 isnt bad

[glacial sequoia]

20x a 25sec CD in 5min fight? 😄

[hollow river]

Oh I’m stupid forgive me

Just got done work 12 hrs and thought a minute was 100 seconds

[glacial sequoia]

assuming you loose some seconds each time for pooling 3x envenoms i would say 10 out of 12 max is decent

[tribal spear]

it can be "just" 12 in a 5 minute fight right? so i missed two maybe. or something like that

[glacial sequoia]

bruh 😄 imagine working 12 hours when a minute is 100 seconds man, underpaid!

[hollow river]

Yeah sorry rofl brain dead atm

[void needle]

Is there anywhere I can see the average sim dps for an ilvl range?

[hollow river]

Lool save me

[tribal spear]

but is there something else? i mean i felt pretty good in that fight

[hollow talon]

ilvl parse is kinda scuffed cause u can be like me and be 231 ilvl

but have 226 weps

[whole skiff]

Roguemain, do you have a vod?

[hollow river]

You only wasted cp from seal fate procs... which isn’t bad

[void needle]

231 here with 226 and 220 D:

[hollow river]

Your uptimes are good...

[obsidian socket]

How much do weapons affect dps

[delicate bone]

ye i would never look at ilvl parses for anything

[buoyant mauve]

I know the feeling, blue parse with grey ilvl parse cause 220 weapons

[delicate bone]

especially now with dom sockets

[tribal spear]

no

[delicate bone]

kind of useless

[whole skiff]

The most

[hollow river]

Idk your dps just isn’t as high as other people parsing

Seeing a lot of sin rogues doing 7.3k rn

[hollow talon]

weapons are just fuckin huge

[whole skiff]

Roguemain, go kill a boss right now and post a vod.

[obsidian socket]

I see. You’re an alliance rogue

[hollow talon]

for dam

[obsidian socket]

That’s the problem

[bitter canyon]

They might all have the tazavesh trinket

Might be trinket/gear problem

[hollow river]

No

[whole skiff]

No

20 haste is meh

Not the difference between grey and pink

[hollow river]

252 dagger is a biggy

[whole skiff]

Grey = fundamental mistakes or terrible gear

[safe vale]

Blindside + vigor?

[hollow river]

True

[opaque karma]

i got 1 grey parse, i was afk and they killed it and bresed me wen i came back

😄

[ancient crag]

true chad way to gear. die, alt tab, get rezzed when boss dies, collect loot.

[balmy condor]

oh also hell of a necro but I was in the shower being about it. This sucks too, don't do it

[whole skiff]

We booted someone who was afk on painsmith prog, and pulled before the boss scaled down. We killed the boss, person came back after boss died. They missed out on the vault option kekw

[delicate smelt]

that tazavesh trink from final boss is it good for sin?

[safe vale]

Im blind or didnt you use Slice at all that fight?

[strange silo]

do we sin rogues want atleast 1 sylv dagger or just try to get 2x252ilvl dagger? i heard the dagger isnt that good for sin

[azure bronze]

it's bis

[hollow river]

Oh I thought it was null

[tribal spear]

i try to bring some from tommorows raid

[buoyant mauve]

iirc it was said that a lower dagger in the off hand can still beat some higher ilvl OH daggers

[safe vale]

I dont think had slice and dice up at all that fight

[balmy condor]

It’s null on sub

[bitter canyon]

Healing from recuperator

[hollow river]

Ah ok

[balmy condor]

It’s a pretty good loss for sin

[hollow river]

Kk

[strange silo]

oh alright just thought maybe 2x 252 would be better over sylv dagger

[hollow river]

Good to know, I don’t do it personally but don’t wanna misinform anyone

[bitter canyon]

Also it’s listed in his buffs, SnD was up 99%

[delicate smelt]

So'leah's Secret Technique is it good for Sin?

[balmy condor]

Yeah all good

[balmy condor]

No

It’s awful

[worldly forum]

say i have a 10s gap between my vendetta and flag, do i want to hold off to pair them together?

[safe vale]

So im littreally blind

[balmy condor]

Yes, if you won’t miss a cast, which you likely won’t

[worldly forum]

ty 🙂

[delicate smelt]

same for Outlaw or Sub?

i dont want to thrash it 😄

[balmy condor]

Correct, it’s just garbage

[delicate smelt]

i was lucky for one time with drop

still Phial and Cube is the way to go?

[ionic vault]

@hollow river looking at top logs, so when not running subterfuge we never open with ambush, always with mutilate?

[gusty mirage]

phial/shadowgrasp probably if you're looking at just m+ trinkets

[hollow river]

Yes

Unless you are necrolord covenant

[delicate smelt]

so no garrote open?

[balmy condor]

Never open with ambush ever

[ionic vault]

so I guess compared to outlaw it's pointless to vanish during fights as assassinatio

[delicate smelt]

with master assa and blind?

[hollow river]

MA talent

50% crit from stealth for 3 seconds

[balmy condor]

Subterfuge with garrote, necrolord with sbs, everything else is mut

[hollow river]

So yes we vanish

[ionic vault]

ahhh yeah it makes total sense

thanks

[hollow river]

And in aoe u can vanish to spread 3 more empowered garrotes

After ur first 3

Or wait till first 3 fall off and refresh them by vanishing

[ionic vault]

is there a pin somewhere for the powers to get for the tarrague figfht?

[ornate gazelle]

Can you still get renown past 30 doing normal pf's?

[hollow river]

Nah check YouTube

[strange python]

does sbs count as bleed for doomblade?

[woeful orbit]

The pain is real

[green nacelle]

does MA talent work with NW spear?

[woeful orbit]

Well, not grey for ilvl but 220 weaps and no phial 🙁

[delicate smelt]

220 main hand with 213 phial here 😄

[mental trout]

was looking at logs and the first page of each boss still has most people rocking doomblade. thought obe would take over

[bright turret]

the nerf made them more or less the same

[mental trout]

ah i just checked pins again i see

doomblade actually on top by like .34%

[bright turret]

obed pretty much for sub now

[mental trout]

good i dont have to go vent now lol

i like necro, i have doomblade for hands =/ have to recraft to cloak it seems

i am one shard away from from my chaos bane.

[bright turret]

yea this raid has a ton of add fights

so necro is great

[mental trout]

wondering how much of a dps inc chaos bane is

so i wont be an idiot if i stay necro?

[bright turret]

pretty unlikely

if you play ass/outlaw, necro is as solid as it gets

venthyr seems to be more for sub now

[drifting cloud]

I mean majority is still venthyy

necro is just still good

[bright turret]

yea no reason to think too hard about it unless you're top 50 raider or something

[mental trout]

alright i dont have much time to play as it is, be nice to not have to change

[soft fable]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[bright turret]

saved a few sire kills as a skeleton man so that's always a perk

[tawny barn]

any1 know which best domination socket for assa

[junior wigeon]

is there a cut off for haste/crit we want?

[bright turret]

the trend I've seen for many specs is unholy for ST frost for AoE

[whole skiff]

@balmy condor so just to confirm, if I have 3 combo points and flagellation is about to transition in 0.5seconds, I shouldn't spent those points to gain 3% haste and extra dmg? I should build to 4 or 5 and envenom and not gain the haste?

[stark smelt]

does the fine razorwing quill trinket bleed work with leggo?

[hardy prairie]

do you guys rupture all adds on Soulrender or spam CT?

[balmy condor]

Correct

[hardy prairie]

word

[whole skiff]

Was that to me as well Whispyr 😵‍💫

[late grove]

https://raid.subcreation.net/assassination-rogue-painsmith-raznal.html why is elaborate planning the go-to in painsmith H?

[balmy condor]

Because a lot of people run ep vig

[late grove]

so if you go vig you're more inclined to drop blindside? (based on sims), but is that generally the idea?

[dim temple]

is it me or are neco lord just pwneding the top 10 on logs

[real pewter]

is phial of putrifaction still the BiS trinket for us?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[azure bronze]

On what difficulty?

[dim temple]

Hc

only logs for nine on myhtic

Jailer is mixed Tarragrue is most ventyr and Nine is also ventyr.

[azure bronze]

On the later bosses it's more venthyr then anything

[dim temple]

Thats why i want to craft anything before i get more dom sockets and see the logs for next two weeks before make up my mind

wait

[azure bronze]

But HC logs aren't really a good representation what will be used in mythic

[rapid prism]

when do you use the inscrutable quantum device trinket in the opener? pre pull?

[drifting cloud]

its not gonna magically change my friend, venthyr is better in raid its just not by any insane margin

so playing necro is more than fine even in hof guilds

[dim temple]

yea thats i want to see 🙂

we going mythic tomorrow:D I get sly dagger from normal .. going to be fun

[indigo valley]

every time I run Deeper and BLindside i feel like a do way less damage

how do you play that build

[balmy condor]

You replace your next mutilate with the proc

[winged basin]

we want unholy dom set right?

[gray sleet]

Isthere a reason to Shiv at 0 CP and start with Mutilate from vanish? Shouldn't it be shiv at 4/5 CP and then envenom from vanish?

[low girder]

if you're playing deeper you only get one envenom in the MA window anyway, so there's no reason to wait before using shiv

if you're running vigor, then yes, you would be correct

[atomic estuary]

hey guys does the deathly prepull work for sin? i get the slice but i dont see a dmg buff on my buff bar like i do when i do deathly prepull as sub

[misty bough]

obedience is still the way to go right

[teal mountain]

so guys just created my leggo (obe) this morning, put versa and crit on it but i will never respe sub, i did a msitake ?

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t

[balmy condor]

Pins have comparisons

[misty bough]

yea i saw that

im curious bout what conduits they're assuming im using in the dungeon slice

poisoned katar, lashing scars and lethal poisons?

[balmy condor]

The spreadsheet is linked and has all the sims

You can see for yourself for every comparison point

I don’t think I used katar

Katar is pretty bad

[misty bough]

u use katar for the 5% crit

i'd say

[balmy condor]

And my response would be no you wouldn’t

Because katar is pretty bad

[iron orchid]

I've been using it lately

it looks really bad

[wise fiber]

CT or poison bomb on KT

i see mixed set ups on WL

[eternal turtle]

how does holding flag for vendetta work, i assume you hold unless if using insta means you get +1 use out of it?

[halcyon zealot]

not necessarily optimal but to be fair it really doesn’t matter much

you’d want crit/haste ideally if you’re NEVER playing sub

[teal mountain]

ok but as an ass rogue i need some versa right ? like 12-14%

[eternal turtle]

like on a 5.30-6min fight you would use it at 0, 2min, 3.5min, 5min?

[halcyon zealot]

there’s not a set number you aim for, you just sim top gear. coming into the tier i had about 14%, after the first week and loot i got im down to 6%, just follow top gear

[teal mountain]

kk

thx

[balmy condor]

Yep, and then vend on 0,2,5

[sonic schooner]

1mn holding vendetta

Dude they destroyed painsmith in heroic, we got only one set of traps in p2 i did big parses

[oblique kiln]

ready to craft my lego are obedience and doomblade pretty much neck and neck? I mostly just raid if that matters

[balmy condor]

? what's wrong with it

[eternal turtle]

ah yeah seems logical

thnx

[sonic schooner]

it sounds bad even if it s correct, that s all 😔

when my big CD is up i just want to press it

[eternal turtle]

well its the only vendetta you are gonna use if its a 6min fight

true

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's weird for sure

I forget to sync a lot of the time

[plain spruce]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

just full send

all the time

[eternal turtle]

its just annoying because im unsure how long the fights will last

[balmy condor]

monke brain

[sonic schooner]

i got a priest NF tonight who reduced my vendetta CD by 20s each time, but i feel like using vendetta without vanish MA talent is totally garbage so i end up holding it for 20s

to resynch them

[balmy condor]

you'd be correct to do that actually

[sonic schooner]

but nobody in our guild wanted the reducing CD

[plain spruce]

do you use flag after shiv in the opener?

[balmy condor]

before

[buoyant stratus]

Guys, let me ask you a question.

how about this?

[balmy condor]

how about this what

it's a trinket

it's okay

[odd hazel]

It is indeed a item

I think if sims pretty wel

Like top 5?

[balmy condor]

yeah somewhere in there

[buoyant stratus]

oh... thx

[balmy condor]

carried by ilvl

[odd hazel]

I have a 220 phial and got a 236 totem today. Man I think my luck is run out there

Was doing 6.4K overall on a 14. Seems meh tbh

[balmy condor]

I haven't done a key as sin all patch

[sonic schooner]

same

[odd hazel]

[indigo mulch]

Sub just feels endlessly better than sin in dungeons 😦

[sonic schooner]

Also that s fked up

[odd hazel]

I just can’t be fucked switching

[sonic schooner]

why my tyra gave me 200 rio, and my fort 80 only 😠

[odd hazel]

Are they the same ranking

[indigo mulch]

You get less and less rio though.

[balmy condor]

you have a score for tyran and fort

[dry void]

idk im doing sin all m+ and it seems fine finishing around 7.5-8k overall in premades with non pussy tanks. this week is kinda aids tho because plume cc not working most of the time

[balmy condor]

and the higher dungeon counts for more

so if your tyrannical plague gives 150

and then you do a lower fort plague

it'll give like 50

if you do a higher fort plague, that'll give you like 155

and then in turn, your tryannical will give you like 50

[indigo mulch]

I really can't decide if i should craft obe or not :/

[sonic schooner]

yea i m doing 18+ only and my fort numbers feelsbadman 😔

[wise fiber]

someone?

[indigo mulch]

CT is for padding if you ask me. I feel like pure ST is just better :/

There are other classes that aoe much better than sin does.

[odd hazel]

Obedience felt really nice in M+

You shouldn’t ever be going into dungeons going ST

[indigo mulch]

No, mesh was asking about CT or bomb on KT.

[wise fiber]

yeah on Kelthuzad.

[odd hazel]

Oh

Rip

[indigo mulch]

I mean, once you go into the portal you want to blast that thing.

[wise fiber]

thank you Lazy. you are right.

[indigo mulch]

Thats way more important than tickling a bunch of adds to get more dps on details.

I mean unless you want to pad damage then go ahead go CT.

[wise fiber]

no hell no. i want to move on.

ty

[desert orchid]

when you do you guys shiv on your opener with master assassin?

[bronze wagon]

we using flag on cd with obedience right

[winged basin]

should ALWAYS be flagging on cd

[indigo mulch]

I'm pretty sure we use flag on cd.

Always.

Unless you know you can't get another flag in, then you save it to line it up with cds.

[brisk imp]

maybe I was looking at wrong pins, but I didn't see this, dom shards is 3x unholy for basically everyone right?

[odd hazel]

Not sure but for us yes

[brisk imp]

awesome, ty

[cerulean nest]

when your tanks dont want you to keep uptime 🙂

[sonic schooner]

yea but ya know sin downtime with bleeds u dont lose anything ya know

[odd hazel]

[indigo mulch]

And don't forget scaling

[sonic schooner]

yep we scale on downtime i would say

[indigo mulch]

Agreed.

[void pecan]

crit vers for obed right?

[teal mountain]

so with obe we take blindside in single target why not elaborate plan

[indigo mulch]

For assassination, crit/haste most likley.

[sonic schooner]

because you should always take blindside in ST

[teal bloom]

It just sims better

[indigo mulch]

If there are adds you can dot, you can go EP instead of BS.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rPcDbwwE49JLu7JKjgfEca 121 dps loss on pure ST.

but for fights where you need high burst (for example sludge) during a short period of time, EP is better than BS.

[teal bloom]

With ep vigor the difference would be smaller

[indigo mulch]

Oh true actually

But its still a dps loss.

[teal bloom]

Yeah venthyr likes bs/ds

[fair void]

any tips for the Remnant of Ner'zhul?

[indigo mulch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Nn1qWWGHCsAWnnLEEsZPr

[indigo mulch]

If you do the mass dispell tactic save shadowstep for that, if not save shadowstep for the second knockback
Make sure you keep up 5 dots (if you can) on the balls even if they have the shield on them.
Go EP/Vigor

[fair void]

thanks

[indigo mulch]

I think thats all, right?

[sonic schooner]

i think it is

that s at least how i approach the fight, but me nuu a big big player :3

i always apply garr + rupt (+poison obviously) on a ball whenever it spawns for the energy regen, we re doing the MD strat so i just shadowstep to the boss, i watch my feet and use cloak offensively (because why not hehe)

:3

[indigo valley]

Can anyone help me understand what I'm doing wrong?
I got a 97 and the Eye last night
Then I did this today and I feel like theres something SUPER important I'm missing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9gQJT3Xch1PnF8jM#fight=31&type=damage-done

[indigo mulch]

Eye is super sin friendly though, Painsmith is not. I wouldnt know cause i do all the mechanics cause our ranged are to dumb to stand on traps properly 😦

[indigo valley]

I know I got a fair amount of traps but it still just feels like I'm missing something

[indigo mulch]

I mean you have to be lucky enough to not get traps kekw

You also lose quite a lot of dps when doing balls, or atleast i do. Your constantly dancing and backpaddling.

I just told all of our ranged to do it and melee took care of the boss. That was way easier for us so we didnt have any random deaths to balls

[teal mountain]

why blindside > elaborate

[odd hazel]

If your ranged can’t handle the balls they need to swap classes

[twilit wren]

so is obedience still best for sin or not so much since nerf cause i see none with it on warcraftlogss

[odd hazel]

Pins

[swift lodge]

Im finding a lot of discrepency's between every guide on assassination opener... Is there a go to that is preferred in this discord? Or is it a just choose the guide that you like?

[crystal vault]

checked in a quick sim, and its delaying flag for every vendetta

[odd hazel]

Mut - SnD - mut - garrote- vendetta- flag - rupture - shiv/vanish - mut - evenom

[swift lodge]

ah okay shiv after rupture

thank you

[unkempt pilot]

and without vendetta but necro ?

[wise gull]

What's the dps increase of the frost 3set, anyone know?

[odd hazel]

@balmy condor any knowledge of this? We still use flag on CD with obedience ?

[balmy condor]

what's the rule

[odd hazel]

I’ve always known it as on CD

But figured I’d look into that

[balmy condor]

you sync unless you're going to miss a cast

[odd hazel]

Obedience changes nothing yeah ?

[balmy condor]

with obedience, it's close to 2 flags for every 1 vendetta

but the rule holds

[odd hazel]

Cool

[violet hemlock]

lol

that trinket

9% overall

[odd hazel]

Sad that it sims less for me

[violet hemlock]

Eh dont have any good trinkets yet

[fiery mauve]

So uh

Y’all pool energy before popping off as bs/ds

Or just run it

Because I’m so starved after opener with MA

[craggy basin]

hey so this is my opener , any thoughts on how you would change it..or is it ok. not sure if i should move my flag and vendetta around...Mutilate, Slice and Dice, Mutilate, Garrote, Flagellation, Vendetta, Rupture, Mutilate, Mutilate, Shiv, Vanish, Envenom

[grizzled orbit]

I'm so conflicted. Zoldyck or Obedience for M+ D:

[fiery mauve]

Obedience

It’s pog

It’s up for everything

[cedar crater]

when i use the macro command, it sends me sub macros... so does anyone wanna share their sin macros?

[tiny bramble]

does sin generally want crit>haste ?

[fiery mauve]

Pins, can also sim your stat weights

[iron river]

crit/haste missives on Obedience yah?

[fiery mauve]

Probably

[cloud bramble]

unless you wanna play sub then crit vers

[fiery mauve]

I went crit vers for subt while still being able to work for assass

[iron river]

prob just sin

[cloud bramble]

haste it up then

[iron river]

haste 1 crit 2?

[balmy condor]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear
through Top Gear.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[cloud bramble]

doesn't matter they come out equal

[scenic root]

I made crit verse, cause wanted to play around with sub. Got pogger 252 neck with crit/verse ( had haste/verse) now I'm so lopsided with crit and down to like 13% haste ugh

[west geode]

For Soul render what talents are you picking for heroic

EP Sub and CT?

[fiery mauve]

Yeah ep MA ct

[wide ridge]

so for obedience in m+, how does our opener look like? triple garrote fok flag ct?

[scenic root]

You can get out 4 garrotes, 3 empowered and one normal. Would want to snd before FoK

[bronze heath]

What does EP means?

[scenic root]

It's talent elaborate planning, first row

[bronze heath]

Ofc mb

[tranquil trout]

Curious about trinket sims, Phial is number one but it shows Shadowgrasp Totem as number 2. Looking for a second trinket to farm in M+ and upgrade, is Shadowgrasp good or does it just have weird sim interaction?

[timid talon]

its good

Not a sim trap like IQD

its hasted so it's really strong

[tranquil trout]

ok sweet, thanks man

[flint anchor]

would you recommend Deeper strat with obedience or vigor?

[void pecan]

deeper may sim higher, but it's all kinda feelycraft

[timid talon]

personally i only run deeper with obedience, the sim difference is so minor with doomblade that i prefer ep/vigor when not using obedience

the difference is like 60 dps for me

[obsidian socket]

does the opener change if u run blindside deeper

[echo cargo]

If you're using Obedience should you always sync vendetta w/ flag?

[grizzled orbit]

You should sync Vendetta with Flag anyway

[thick sail]

God I fucking hate all these acronyms

Is it really that hard to type out entire words!?

I need to change my name and avatar to Grandpa Simpson

[whole skiff]

Totem does more dps than Phial for me. It's actually insane.

[tranquil trout]

oh shit ok, ive been sleeping

gonna farm, thanks man!

[winged basin]

7.1k on Guardian lets gooooooo

95 parse

[whole skiff]

Over 12 wipes of Painsmith totem did 670k damage and Phial did 577k.

[echo geyser]

same ilvl?

[whole skiff]

@echo geyser Phial is 236 totem is 229

[plush garnet]

Which is the better slot for MA?

Wrist or ring?

[craggy basin]

how good is occular gland for us

[errant delta]

How are you guys useing sbs in st opener? Give a rough opener

[fiery mauve]

Think you open with it

Am no expert

So like sbs snd mut

It’s probably mentioned in one of the guides

Likely mentioned

Maybe it’s still mut snd mut sbs

Shrug

[rocky ruin]

That the right opener SBS-SND-Mut

[echo geyser]

did u notice if totem was getting CDR from the balls dying/despawning?

[rocky ruin]

You want SBS asap on the target

[scenic root]

Replace first mut with SBS. In pure ST, use before caping and dump in gemstone window.

[violet hemlock]

Dude our warrior didnt show up and thus all my parses are fucked

sad

[scenic root]

Why does it matter

[tranquil trout]

spicy 99 parse on Guardian

[errant delta]

What is 'dumb in gemstone window'?

[odd hazel]

dump he means

[scenic root]

^

Auto correct

Dump as in, when gemstone goes off use all remaining charges. Only situation you may not use all is if your in a fight with add currently alive that you could potentially snipe with SBS to get reset charge.

[whole skiff]

Nah I used it single target and synced it with vendetta every time.

[strange python]

I miss SBS. I might just change back to Necro for shits n giggles because fuck the tea party

[scenic root]

I don't miss outlaw, so I'm good lmao

[whole skiff]

Fuck outlaw, roll the bones is so tilting.

[kindred crescent]

Anyone got advice for the ring mechanic?

[scenic root]

?

[echo geyser]

thats interesting, maybe totem is outperforming sims

phial rly should win esp at higher ilvl

i got the guardian fusion trinket on hc but seems be simming weird

[fiery mauve]

I like sbs but I also like subtlety

And I don’t like sbs as subtlety

Sadge

[strange python]

Yeah sbs with sub is awks

[void pecan]

subtlety is the poopoo

[whole skiff]

Must be to do with kill times, I'm sure phial would win on a fight where we kill the boss just as totem comes off cd.

[fiery mauve]

Isn’t totem a 2 min

Just use totem and phial

[odd hazel]

how do you upgrade a domination gem?

[fiery mauve]

Uhh korthia

[odd hazel]

from bone smith yeah?

[fiery mauve]

Yes

You upgrade then exit then upgrade again

[odd hazel]

oh i see it

thank you!

[fiery mauve]

There are multiple upgrades but the UI doesn’t update

[odd hazel]

got the frost damage one

damage is increased by a % for 20 sec after hitting a enemy i havent

[torn atlas]

Yeah I got that one last night. Seems good for m+? Sort of like Korayns first strike

Do shards drop from set bosses or is it a random chance at any when you get them?

[odd hazel]

random i believe

[covert ibex]

Do you pop flagellation on CD after first use with vendetta?

It doesn't sync up good, especially with obedience, to vendetta

[teal mountain]

excuse me guys I never got the totem so i m asking , when you use it ?

[odd hazel]

Always pop flag on CD

[odd hazel]

i think just line it up with CDs

[blissful yew]

!guide

[teal mountain]

kk it's gonna deal more damage in multi than ST if i understand

[grim sable]

anyone else try to mouseover shadowstep to someone in eye through beam and get wrecked?

[whole bluff]

Yeah it's pretty hard to see through the beam to target an ally, maybe if you have friendly nameplates turned on

[timid talon]

i just have a macro to step to the warlock

he gets it every time

[pseudo nimbus]

Does it work to shadowstep the eye when the beam is past the middle of the platform to appear in front of him?

[timid talon]

its risky

but yes it works

[whole bluff]

Xd one time he will be using chains and you shadowstep into the void

[charred terrace]

I crafted obedience but looks like everyone is still using doomblade?

[glacial bough]

bc doomblade is more fun

[short lodge]

what stats w/ obed?>

[civic jay]

You can shadowstep just the boss during the beam

[short lodge]

Haste + crit?

or if yorue swapping to sub, would vers crit be better?

[glacial bough]

i would check sub pins for their stats

[short lodge]

i did

just curious what multi speccers are doing

[glacial bough]

i say do whatever will make you have the most fun

[strange python]

No perfect answer. Haste isn't horrible to have as sub. Vers or crit aren't bad to have as sin.

Just pick one and go with it

It won't really hurt you that much either way tbh

[spice spire]

Multispec with like obedience is vers crit. So I’d assume that?

[short lodge]

yeah, thats definitely fair

[strange python]

That's what I made. But it wouldn't be much of a change to make a crit haste one.

[short lodge]

you prioing sin for the time being?

[strange python]

Yeah. Atm. I guess. But really it's all a bit meh.

You have a lot of other gear slots to balance stats

People worry about the stats on their leggos way too much

[short lodge]

haha yeah, I am one of those ppl 😛

[wide ridge]

got myself the poor man's phial

[strange python]

Meh

If you fully upgrade that it's like 40ish less dps than a vault one

But you won't have good luck on replacing it without "wasting" Valor on upgrades first

Murphy's Law

[spice spire]

Yeah we take those Ws

[opal trellis]

My friends, I see other hot Ass rogues most damaging abilities ending up as Envenom > Melee whilst mine are Melee > Envenom. any idea what im FUCKING UP on?

[bright turret]

does doomblade still benefit from SBS dot?

[odd hazel]

you arent fucking up o nanything my man

it happens

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slow marsh]

Are you using doomblade?

[opal trellis]

Yes

[slow marsh]

Well then idk. But I doubt you're doing anything egregious

[thin trout]

how manby max envenoms are you putting in your shiv window?

and u have the conduit for increased nature damage during shiv innit

[opal trellis]

I think I get 2, I guess its something I wasn't thinking about maximizing until this exact second

!! that may be it, Maim Mangle simed better for me than WPS

[slow marsh]

I mean just go with sims it honestly isn't a big deal

[opal trellis]

heard that yeah it was just a pattern i noticed with Ass rogues doing better than me, just making sure it didnt indicate some sort of rotation problem

[slow marsh]

It's most likely just shiv optimization

[green nacelle]

is it just me

orp does blinside + deep strat

feel awful to play

[slow marsh]

It does

Esp with obe unless you get big crits

[green nacelle]

like i whiffed mutilate crits

and i'm just depressed

[slow marsh]

It be like that

[fiery mauve]

just pool energy

all day

[thin trout]

no it doesnt, it's definately less spammy than vigor

if you need to always press buttons don't play that 😄

[green nacelle]

iunno opener i feel really starved

like it takes a hot second for my garrote

[slow marsh]

I feel

[fiery mauve]

yes

[thin trout]

not the end of the world because u cant press a button

[slow marsh]

Just be patient

[fiery mauve]

opener felt starved for me too

pool all day

[slow marsh]

You pop off like 5-7 secs after pull as opposed to off rip

The 4p snd is mostly what feels bad man

I wonder if anyone has really tested rupture before snd for opener to get energy running

Just seems silly to waste 4cp on snd during ma window

[tribal marlin]

If you play Vigor/EP you need to follow the envenom rule : Outside of shiv/vend windows, you do maintenance, build cp etc... but don't press envenom if you are below ~100 energy

If you understand why you will do it naturally. You want to give your energy points the maximum value. Energy have higher value during Vendetta, Shiv, EP or Envenom(buff) windows.

So if outside of Shiv/Vend you press Envenom at 35energy, you will end up doing more mutilates outside of these buffs which will lead to a dps loss. You can't fit all of your mutilate inside of these windows because you need to maintain dots etc... but you will always do less dps than intended if you don't follow the envenom rule.

[fathom flax]

Do I hold flag for vend or yolo on cd

I think yolo right

[placid dawn]

On CD unless you wont lose a cast if you hold

[fathom flax]

Tru

[slow marsh]

Unless you're playing obe

[fathom flax]

Probably play obe when I get some soul ash later tonight

[plucky quail]

So outside of Ven/Shiv it's a lot of just Mut (garrote if needed) and waiting for 100 energy to hit Envenom and then do it again?

[slow marsh]

ye

maintain bleeds in pandemic

[plucky quail]

Oof I've been doing that one all sorts of wrong rofl

[slow marsh]

then just optimize envenom uptime and shivs

[fathom flax]

Same

Damn

I was trying to roll envenom

For as long as possible

[green nacelle]

is it the same idea with Blindside/Deep?

[plucky quail]

So is that because you get efficient uses of mutilate inside of your envenoms by pooling?

[odd hazel]

OBE is still on CD

you do not change any rotation with obed

[idle star]

Ive tried garrote > SnD > MuT. That opener puts SnD up but its 1 cp

[odd hazel]

I mean

the regular opener is fine

[idle star]

I dont like the 4cp SnD either. Its a huge waste as opener. Mayaswell open with ambush into SnD

[odd hazel]

thats not at all equal

[idle star]

You dont need a 4cp opener. It gets refreshed

[odd hazel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

doesnt feel bad tbh

[idle star]

Why not use ambsuh over mut then?

[odd hazel]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[idle star]

You still get an snd

[odd hazel]

we know this already

[idle star]

So the initial opener can start with ambush and vanishes can be mut

[odd hazel]

no

you're over thinking this lol

[idle star]

No im not

Gimme proof on how mut opener is better than ambush (out sidr of vanish)

[odd hazel]

i

just did

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[odd hazel]

did

you not

read

[green nacelle]

hmm, do i just have to live log if i wanna practice on a dummy

due to vanish in the opener?

[idle star]

Ok so if im using obi im gonna ambush my initial opener. No reason not to

At all

[odd hazel]

...what

lol

[green nacelle]

???

[odd hazel]

@balmy condor help

[balmy condor]

is it quick

I'm kinda busy

so if it's gonna take a while, I'd rather not

[odd hazel]

explain why we never use ambush to this guy

besides procs

i've tried

[tribal marlin]

exactly

[idle star]

You dont need a 4cp SnD in opener when you can use ambush and deal more dmg (if not using DB)

[balmy condor]

#tc-research message

read that

[plucky quail]

Thank you

[idle star]

Page wont load

[balmy condor]

it's in tc research

just scroll up a little in there

[odd hazel]

hes also arguing the SnD opener is pointless

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy condor]

oh

[idle star]

No im not

You fool dont put words in my mouth

[tribal marlin]

Oh and also, one important thing : You need to empty your energy bar whenever you will "soon" leave the melee range. Sound obvious, but if you start focusing on pooling you might forgot

GCD is 1sec so it can take multiple second to do so. So plan ahead

[odd hazel]

"You dont need a 4cp SnD in opener when you can use ambush and deal more dmg (if not using DB)"

[idle star]

ItMeKrey you dont even know fully why we do yet you argue and run to "dob" on me to someone more experienced. You are sad

[plucky quail]

So dump before a torment dance phase or something?

[odd hazel]

i mean

i gave you the reason

you decided not to listen

[balmy condor]

get along or I'll mute both of you

we don't use ambush from stealth, because mut is better

[pseudo pilot]

@tribal marlin are there any env rules for blindside/ds?

[balmy condor]

slice is a pog finisher

[tribal marlin]

exactly. Just dump all your energy whenever you know you will deal with a mechanic in the next 5sec

[balmy condor]

should always cast it

[granite lance]

at the end of the day, if you wanna use ambush you go ahead

[severe hawk]

Is it worth using the frost set domination gems over all three dps gems? Raidbots sims don't seem to be showing it or it's just that terrible

[tribal marlin]

The rule is the same, but since you get a lot of BS procs, have less max energy it is usually way more spammy. If you have 120 max energy, you need to env at like 60-70 otherwise you'll overcap energy mostlikely, AND if you get a bs proc as well you might overcap so, it's kinda less relevant for BS/DS setup

[alpine garden]

He's not saying don't cast it, he's basically asking why use 4cp to cast out when you can use 2 and it refreshes anyway

[idle star]

How is mut better for thr FIRST ability used in the opener when using obi? Its used for SnD to be applied but because we refresh snd so soon why do we need a 4cp snd in opener?

[strange python]

Goodness.

Life as a mod must be well fun

[sacred yarrow]

Cause dmg

[slow marsh]

yikes i just said that using snd with 4 cp in opener during ma feels bad i didn't mean for it to turn into ambush from stealth

[idle star]

Ambush does more dmg than mut tho.

[balmy condor]

bro I literally don't have time for this

[idle star]

This is NO DB

[sacred yarrow]

Nah cause dmg

[balmy condor]

would you be happy

if I sent a sim

[slow marsh]

extra cp does more damage than ambush bud

[idle star]

Just want proper reasoning.... sad face noone can offer it

[slow marsh]

mut from stealth gives more cp

therefore more damage

bud

[idle star]

Im only talking about the snd open nothing past that

[granite lance]

in a single GCD, Ambush does do slightly more damage (not that much more) than Mutilate. However, Mutilate gives us more in the long term due to things like extra combo points when it crits

[strange python]

For reals. Push one button or the other with obe. And you'll likely see next to no difference. Just do your thing.

[oak sky]

isnt there a command for this

[slow marsh]

i'd like to see your 5k dps ambushing from stealth

[idle star]

Omfg i literslly mean the FIRST hit in opener not everything after. I know mut gives more cp. Im talking strictly about thr snd application

[granite lance]

If you feel it is better, and that everyone else is wrong, you are more than welcome to use Ambush and ignore what people are saying

[oak sky]

probably because ambush costs energy

[odd hazel]

i did it twice

[oak sky]

LOL

[alpine garden]

As a third party to this convo this is hilariously awful to read

[tribal marlin]

It's a combination of things :

[alpine garden]

You are all literally not answering his question

[balmy condor]

I sent a link

[idle star]

Noones answering me properly its sarcastic junk

[balmy condor]

to a very detailed explanation

[idle star]

I couldnt open it

[balmy condor]

from our head theorycrafter

correct

I then told you

its in tc research

scroll up

[tribal marlin]

1. Mutilate proc twice poison (100% chance)
2. Mutialte can generate more CP
3. Mutilate apply Doomblade dot.

That's all

numbers says, it's better

[bronze wagon]

@tribal marlin does the envenom rule apply to BS/DS Obedience?

[balmy condor]

at the end of the day, it's 1 gcd, do what makes you happy

[strange python]

Like ferreals

Its a fraction of a percentage.

[tribal marlin]

Yes the env rule apply always it's part of the Envenom line in the APL. But with BS/DS setup the threshold for Env is like 50 energy

[strange python]

A fraction of a fraction

[tribal marlin]

so you can just spam and it make no difference

[granite lance]

ok but to be fair to the guy, he was discussing the opener with Obedience, so points 2/3 aren't really relevant

[fluid glade]

so spam envenom as soon as you have appropriate cp in ven/shiv windows and outside use it at 100 energy with ep/vigor

[idle star]

Number 2 and 3 are irrelevant to what i was saying because i already said no db and cp dont matter for SnD

[bronze wagon]

so with EP/Vigor you literally afk after getting 5 cp to 100 energy to envenom

so weird

[tribal marlin]

When we first did sims about mut vs ambush it was the era of Zoldyck and it was like whatever

Oh and iirc back then the 100% chance of poison proc was bug

[tribal marlin]

Yes that's basically how you play Assa 😄 You still need to refresh dots tho. And never delay Shiv

[idle star]

Thank you. Thats all i needed. Ppl can use ambush for first hit to apply SnD if they want.

[bronze wagon]

luckily for me bs/ds sim higher so i get to envenom at 50 energy 😄

[torn atlas]

They can open with melee hits if they want

[strange python]

You CAN sure. It won't hurt like people say it will. It won't be perfectly optimised. But W/e

[devout ingot]

is there some type of resource to refer to when deciding which dom shards to upgrade, top gear doesnt work

[plucky quail]

I like to open with FoK. It brings a certain flair to any encounter

[idle star]

Using Obi, how would ambush hurt your initial hit for SnD applicstion? Doesnt its dmg make up for double posion proc?

[tribal marlin]

yes. It's not exactly 100 it's related to your total energy regen, but I think 100 is a good treshold to start with

[strange python]

Like I say. It's a fraction. Like getting a lucky crit or not will make a larger difference

[balmy condor]

the ones that do damage first, then the unholy ones that don't do damage

[strange python]

Fuck shard of zed

[devout ingot]

ty @balmy condor

[strange python]

Fuck it to hell

[idle star]

But you have same crit chance with mut and ambush in opener

[granite lance]

Upgrade shard of dyz

[oak sky]

shard of dyz

[granite lance]

shard of dyz nuts

[devout ingot]

shard of dyz nutz

[granite lance]

after that upgrade shard of ligma and shard of sugma

[odd hazel]

[tribal marlin]

EP/Vigor is better in some situation, namely :

1. Non-execute bosses
2. Bosses with frequent downtime mechanics.
   Sylvanas fill both

[fleet anchor]

Well also it's better any time you get energy regen from multi target sources of any kind since it increases your CP gen enough to keep much higher uptime on EP buff and devalue Blindside proc

Good example being The Eye, you pretty much can multi-DoT all the main phases so Blindside doesn't really do anything with the increased energy gen

[tribal marlin]

Yeah as well, so there are quite some fight in SoD where you'll want to play (and play correctly) the EP

[fleet anchor]

On The Eye for example in P3 I had 100% uptime of Elaborate Planning buff

Or, well, technically 96.6% 😄

[tribal marlin]

How many mutilate did you fit in that 3.4% of downtime

that's the question

haha

[fleet anchor]

How many mutilates do you fit in 0.01s? 😄

[tribal marlin]

one I guess

[fleet anchor]

Let me check, I'm curious now

[tribal marlin]

the first one 😄

[fleet anchor]

0!

In the whole fight it was 11 Mutilates

In 7:22

Some of that was mid-air

Since you can fit a global or two on the boss while taking chains 😄

[tribal marlin]

11 mutilates Oo

[fleet anchor]

Which is neat

[tribal marlin]

oh yeah 11 outside of ep sorry I need sleep

[fleet anchor]

yeah outside of EP

151 total

[tribal marlin]

Well there is at least a couple about moving around

[fleet anchor]

yep

[tribal marlin]

like the 1st one, the first on little eye etc.

[fleet anchor]

The Eye is a super fun Assassination fight, ngl

[tribal marlin]

In mythic you switch eyes right in phase 2

so you can refresh dots before moving

[fleet anchor]

We had enough DPS to just burn through

[neon cloak]

U stack with the chain?

[tribal marlin]

oh ok

[fleet anchor]

Without swapsies

We just kept ranged cleave in the center

[neon cloak]

🙄

[fleet anchor]

Not sure I'd recommend it for everyone though

[tribal marlin]

destro 📈

[fleet anchor]

I think the swap strat is probably more straightforward in a lot of ways

Just slightly more complicated initially

Far lower DPS req

[tribal marlin]

we have 2 warlocks + boomies

should be ok

[fleet anchor]

On adds

lol

[tribal marlin]

we have shadows as well

lemme guess, the other rogue is sub 😄 ?

[fleet anchor]

Assassination but he had to run out at some bad time

[tribal marlin]

I c

[fleet anchor]

He was higher other pulls

I ended up top damage overall though which was nice 😄

Assassination feels really good on that fight

[tribal marlin]

yeah I will play assa too anyway

On the nine probably as well

even if I think sub can be fine on this one, it's like there is too much movement I just want to put my brain off

[fleet anchor]

interesting thing I found out

[idle star]

Im still waiting to feel good as assas.. stuck with 213 badge and stupid taz last boss trink atm and only 19% haste....

[fleet anchor]

I'm pretty sure Leech is not affected by the debuff in P3

[tribal marlin]

oh interesting

[fleet anchor]

Leeching Poison basically kept me at 100% HP the whole phase 🤣

Even at 10 stacks

loool

[tribal marlin]

so you reach 10 stacks at the end

but there is low damage input right ?

[slow marsh]

wow leeching gamer

[tribal marlin]

it's just like avoidable stuff

tbh I think I might play assa on Painsmith aswell

I feel like this boss is way too much movement

[fleet anchor]

Yeah the damage intake is "moderate"

I think the hits are like 15k

every 8s

Crimson Vial is % HP so it is also not affected

[tribal marlin]

Too much micro-movement that can really fuck(d up Sub, even tho sub is insanely good at killing balls

[slow marsh]

I just keep cheat death on and risk as much as i can

[tribal marlin]

ok so it's nothing to do with the old Immediate extermination from The Maw

[fleet anchor]

Or wait no they changed vial nm

I lied, they must have fixed it

It was working earlier

Not in our kill

[crystal blaze]

i crafted obedience yesterday and now i'm regreting my choice when i see all the logs 😄

[tribal marlin]

Obedience is situationnal for Assa

[slow marsh]

it'll come around when we get more gear i think

i'm still using MA leggo over obed in keys

sims higher and feels better

[fleet anchor]

But like really mostly you just have to try to save Cloak for when you are about to die

Probably the impact for stack 8 or something

[crystal blaze]

i don't care about m+, only raids

[slow marsh]

well for raid doomblade was better anyways so

[tribal marlin]

There are a lot of case where you don't want obedience. Basically if the boss is shorter than 5:30 it will sucks (ou gotta delay vendetta for 20sec to line up so if you fight is <5:30 you can't and everything is desync)

[slow marsh]

I was only saying to go obedience for people who play both raid and M+ and only want to craft the one leggo

[crystal blaze]

so dumb

[tribal marlin]

If there is downtimes intermission you loose value out of Obedience since your Flag will naturally recharge during intermission phase

etc...

[slow marsh]

I did find that with obedience you have a nice little in between spike like miki is saying

[tribal marlin]

But in some specific case it can be a legendary you might want to go with

[fleet anchor]

Seemed like both are probably fine on Nine, probably not a big difference

[tribal marlin]

It's the movement that fears me

[fleet anchor]

I'd give the edge on Eye to Assassination just because the add is there to cleave almost the entire fight, you get so much free energy

Nine really is mostly uptime, the downtime is fairly brief

[slow marsh]

I would say for prog sin is gonna be better on probs every fight outside of guardian

[tribal marlin]

Will need some pulls to adapt the Subtle spec to a boss with such movement and I just want to brain off

[fleet anchor]

I died to some AoE on the Nine kill though

So my parse was bad lol

The tale of two kills

🤣

[tribal marlin]

hahahaha

There is way to do 100s every time !

Kill the boss first

[fleet anchor]

haha

ez

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/HsNywse.png