assassination

[spice cargo]

I guess assa isnt very much after main stat stuff and more on-hit effects

[soft shale]

hmm no badge in pve is just not that big

[gusty mirage]

no the pvp badge just sucks

[spice cargo]

I come from warlock where it was a really solid option so I was just wondering if its good for early progress for rogue aswel

[gusty mirage]

I mean its not terrible if you don't have any other options, or can't stomach farming dos/pf for phial & shadowgrasp

[cold rampart]

why start muti snd not ambush ?

[spice cargo]

But I should just target farm the PF trinket and the guardian trinket?

[odd hazel]

my raid is STRUGGLING on pain. this fight isnt this bad ;-; jesus christ

[balmy condor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[gusty mirage]

yeah phial is strong af

[halcyon zealot]

lot of personal responsibility on that fight, its definitely frustrating when you have it figured out and others havent yet

[odd hazel]

people dieing on the intermission phase

[gusty mirage]

you mean you don't enjoy it when a dumb ass with the chains hits you into the spiked balls because they can't wait 2 seconds to run through after everyone?

[spice cargo]

Im looking at that shadowgrasp trinket, why is it good for assa?

[odd hazel]

LOL

[desert orchid]

do you guys run the dungeon build for dungeons or just focus with single target build and spread your dots out?

[gusty mirage]

the trinket is affected by haste

[sonic schooner]

i love that whispyr
"why does it do more dmg?"
"because it is more dmg"

[wide ridge]

what setup are you guys using for M+ this week? leggo+talents? you guys using zoldyck + 221X223 ?

[gusty mirage]

yeppers

[halcyon zealot]

yeah or when a dumbass melee with the chains stands there and hits the ball so no one else can, ya its a fun time

[gusty mirage]

doom in top/pf is fine too

[gusty mirage]

watched a DH fel rush into the balls in 4 pulls in a pug last night

I left

lmao

[sonic schooner]

[timid talon]

and completely ignored for trinket tuning

[cold rampart]

bis trinkets?

[gusty mirage]

phial/shadowgrasp

KT trinket gets special mentions, but droptimize because it could change for your particular set-up

[sonic schooner]

i still dont undertstand how shadowgrasp can be bis

[cold rampart]

+++++++++++++

i used to sim it

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

it's hasted

does big dammies

[sonic schooner]

season 1 when i was looting it, instant sold

[spice cargo]

I assume phantom fire pot is also the best because its hasted?

[wide ridge]

is that for raids or m+?

[timid talon]

for 1 target yes

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[balmy condor]

usually not though

phantom fire got changed in 9.1

and it's kinda bad now

it's weird

[timid talon]

oh interesting

i must have missed that

[sonic schooner]

agilities are more consistent, phantom fire can pump sometimes

[balmy condor]

yeah they halved the damage and doubled the proc rate

[sonic schooner]

oh 🤔

[balmy condor]

which should've been neutral

so

technically just as good

[sonic schooner]

so probably really good on sub shadow dmg amp 🤔

[balmy condor]

but you only took phantom fire to high roll on the RNG

[spice cargo]

Ill just go for agi pots for consistency then I guess

[halcyon zealot]

was kinda nice when theotar cheese for venth still existed iirc

[spice cargo]

Really just picking rogue up for first time since Shrouded Suffication Exsanguinate was the build to play

[halcyon zealot]

god i miss shrouded suffocation

[balmy condor]

I think I miss having something new more than I miss shrouded in particular

[spice cargo]

Yeah, I loved that playstyle, but because warlock was going to be broken in EP I switched to lock for that tier and didnt get to switch back until now

[odd hazel]

@gusty mirage its just FRUSTRATING when people just dont understand. im not sure if its our strat or not but people are so confused about the chains

[gusty mirage]

the last two raids have exposed potatoes for what they are, great for frying and eating, terrible for raiding with

[spice cargo]

If people dont hardswap balls in the last phase its impossible

Also, more healers is always good, we used 6 healers on a 24 man group

[odd hazel]

i LOVE it tbh

also

i wil ladmit though

hitting this ball as melee is aids if you dont door of shadows through them

[spice cargo]

Im just looking at all the insane synergies rogue has with its conduits and soulbinds and it makes me excited to play it, that stuff is all super boring for warlock

[balmy condor]

[spice cargo]

The stutter-strafing you have to do would give any1 RSI

[balmy condor]

imagine looking for synergy

and going to ROGUE

oh man

[wide ridge]

yall venthyr boys going theotar or nadjia for m+?

[balmy condor]

that must've been disappointing as fuck

[wide ridge]

theotar right

[spice cargo]

Am I reading things wrong?

[odd hazel]

theotar ye

[balmy condor]

all our conduits are pretty bland and not that great

[sonic schooner]

they are just a dmg increase, nothing special

[spice cargo]

Not nearly as bland as warlock's, trust me. Destructions most impactful conduit makes you do 6% more damage to targets with immolate

[balmy condor]

remove toxic blade, bake a weaker effect into shiv, then make the best conduit increase the effect of shiv

[woeful wigeon]

maby a weird question is it better to go nadja with 3 potecy conduit and not have dauntless dualist so yo got lashing + well placed steal and leathal poisen / maim mangle ? as dualist is only a 3 procent dps

[sonic schooner]

Make TTB 5000% dmg increse

😔

[balmy condor]

sim it

but yeah all our conduits are kinda weak

and not that interesting

even the covenant ones

[sonic schooner]

i would say the most intresting we have was cloak in shadow

[balmy condor]

sudden fractures is just "it does damage twice sometimes"

[sonic schooner]

but now it s omegalul

[woeful wigeon]

i got them at 213-226-226

[halcyon zealot]

help

[balmy condor]

the right

[woeful wigeon]

got lucky from tese upgrades stuff for corthia

[sonic schooner]

agility agility agility

[plucky ether]

Is it really right to hold vendetta for the second flag? saw on the quick sim on raidbots it held second vendetta till 3 minutes on a 5 minute sim

[balmy condor]

okay

here we go

[sonic schooner]

[balmy condor]

so a simulation that says "5 minutes"

has variance on it

what you're actually simming is an equal amount of individual fights, between 4 minutes and 6 minutes

and it does this

THOUSANDS of times

the quick sims

then pick one at random

to display to you

[true pelican]

if you check that sample sequence it probably ended at 4 mins

[balmy condor]

yeah

we have a line in our APL

that syncs flag/vend if you're not going to missing casts

[plucky ether]

ah cool. figured it was something like that. probably could of worded my question better

[balmy condor]

generally speaking, it's a little bit robotic

[plucky ether]

was a 5.25 min sim it reported, so makes sense

[balmy condor]

usually just should send on cooldown

and if you know for sure that you're not missing a cast

sync it

[spice spire]

@balmy condor hope you've had a great day so far, king.

[balmy condor]

I'm at work

[spice spire]

oh

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

nvm, hate to see it

[balmy condor]

nothing but pain in this lands brother

[spice spire]

I'm here to vibe and help the HOMIES

[chilly mist]

The AVG Spell Hits of another rogue in my raid is ~1k higher but he is only 2 Itemlevel ahead, what can be the cause?

[echo geyser]

crit rng maybe

stat difference

[earnest remnant]

drop a log, makes a bit easier for us to answer

[chilly mist]

unfortunately they are private

[clear shadow]

is 7.6k overall good as assassin in dos?

[dusty garden]

Depends on so many things

Ilvl, comp, pulls, key level

But its not bad for sure!

[muted cove]

Is Obedience still better than Zoldycks in M+ aoe with the nerf?

[balmy condor]

pins brother

they shall take you

to salvation

[earnest remnant]

they shall ascend your mind

[wary pawn]

damn sin feeling so good this tier, lets pray no nerfs 8D

[trail hare]

what covenant is best atm?

for both pvp/pve?

[dusty garden]

Check pins

[earnest remnant]

🙂

[balmy condor]

crazy

how discord works

[earnest remnant]

that actually got me laughing

[trail hare]

I asked because normally people are only talking pve

[balmy condor]

yeah

pvp is all feelcraft

[ivory breach]

I'm sorry if this is SUPER dumb but sims are done with current possible BiS gear, correct?

[balmy condor]

and we have a channel called #pvp where you can feelcraft your covenant as you'd like

[balmy condor]

pretty much yeah

don't use it to make gear decisions though @ivory breach

or I will find you.

[ivory breach]

Too late.

[earnest remnant]

BiS list when whispyr?

[balmy condor]

The people who can make use of a bis list, know where to find it

[ivory breach]

But curious why so?

[trail hare]

wheres the FAQ channel?

[balmy condor]

soon ™️

[trail hare]

shows coming soon like 4 months ago

[ivory breach]

Wouldn't those items be considerd BiS? why would I not chase them?

[trail hare]

oh

[dusty garden]

I think its pretty hard to give any info on this. The way shadowlands covenants works is you need to chose something. So you will sadly have to use what information you have and factor in what content you find the most important and chose accordingly

[balmy condor]

because there's like 150 different combinations that are within margin of error

[odd hazel]

make this a command

[winged basin]

raid officer wants to talk to me. wish me luck friends

[deft rampart]

rip

[spice spire]

good luck toadie

you got this homie

[versed mica]

Tell him to suck your fat nutz

[balmy condor]

PROMOTION

[versed mica]

I did that and became gm, no cap

[balmy condor]

[winged basin]

inb4 I get sat

[spice spire]

nah

we don't sit rogues here

it's the year of the daggie friend

[winged basin]

the future looks bleak

[odd hazel]

jesus christ

5-7 minute pain fights

[little ivy]

on the dungeon slice sims, does it not show nadjia dauntless because its below everything else

[balmy condor]

I don't think I even simmed dauntless

don't need a sim to tell you it's bad

[little ivy]

thank u father

[balmy condor]

🙏

[night leaf]

so is assass currently the lowest simming st spec?

[balmy condor]

out of the 3 rogue specs yeah

it's on par with outlaw

[night leaf]

I think SoD favors assass more than sub though

[sudden canyon]

waddup. just got back to wow. was already sin in CN b4 i quit. i got execute lego on my foot slot. does that conflict with the new socket system? should i swap em out.

also is pvp still good for getting ez weapons. im using 187's rn

[little ivy]

in conflicts but technically you can wait to recraft til you actually get a foot with socket

[balmy condor]

recraft all the legendaries!

https://tenor.com/view/all-your-base-are-belong-to-us-cats-all-your-base-meme-engrish-gif-15689147

[winged basin]

update, he asked if I was ready, joined 2 disc channels then disappeared. anxiety mode activated

[placid dawn]

getting the chains as a melee in painsmith is super cancerous

anything i can do to make it better?

[ruby tree]

don't get them 4Head

[odd hazel]

sit back and enjoy the show

unless your raid actually can give you space to damage

but its just better to sit back

[pure moth]

I got chains in execute time. Sad times

[balmy condor]

ready for a PROMOTION

[echo ruin]

I think someone asked this earlier but I can’t find it for some reason. What’s the reasoning behind running EP/MA in SoD? Sorry if it’s a repeat

[balmy condor]

EP/vigor is close enough to BS/Deeper

less rng

"easier" to play

[echo ruin]

I see, thank you!

[dawn ivy]

@balmy condor i know it probably wasnt worth simming, but did you sim how Dashing would compare to doomblade had they fixed the DP bug?

[elfin valley]

so ik the shadowgrasp totem sims well but is it just a sim trap?

[storm raft]

as far as i know

it doesnt sim all that well

lol

i think the most value of it comes from mythic+

but even then it';s still a weak option i think

[balmy condor]

it would sim within about 0.2%, just like it did

[balmy condor]

second best trinket for sin and sub

btw

[balmy condor]

great trinket, not sure how it would be a trap

[pure moth]

Good thing i got a 229 to upgrade already ha

[elfin valley]

i wasnt sure either idk just found it strange to be simming so high 🤷

[spice spire]

@winged basin you got the juice ?

[storm raft]

was it buffed? cause it s1 it wasnt even top5

unless raid trinkets blow - which i'm not entirely aware of yet

[winged basin]

guess my mechanics are shit, and they need to improve.

[paper willow]

hey if we get a dagger from sylvanas are we supposed to equip it to main/off assuming same ilvl as normal dagger

[winged basin]

I could go into detail but it aint worth my energy

[spice spire]

I'm sorry to hear that friend

[balmy condor]

very strong trinket sims high

dunno man

[drowsy flame]

Assa putting up decent numbers but feels slow. What haste perc is everyone running

[balmy condor]

like 20%

but having more haste won't fix that

sin is a slow spec

get used to it :P

[drowsy flame]

Lol. So basically its a combination of rotation and dot dmg

Bleeds

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah, that's the core of sin

maintain stuff

envenom otherwise

[drowsy flame]

Cool

[strange python]

Shadowgrasp is simbait or actually good

[upper trout]

so like is shadowstepping a ball on painsmith instant death?

[balmy condor]

ye

very fast way to die

[upper trout]

too afraid to try in an actual attempt, ty 😛

[pure sinew]

Good

[spice spire]

definitely a way to get stunned for 10 seconds 🙂

[gray sleet]

Is there a guide about assa in M+?

[balmy condor]

there's some info from icyveins/wowhead

ryfie also has one out

not updated but it's basically the same thing

[restive dawn]

Hello! Am heading into the new raid later today. Is it safe to use the single target talent build for all bosses or will there be any that you’d recommend switching over to EP/Vigor/CT?

[balmy condor]

I played EP/Vig on everything

you can play subt/CT on nine/soulrender/KT technically but I wouldn't really suggest it

should be safe with EP vig PB on everything

[restive dawn]

Ah nice! Thanks again @balmy condor!

[balmy condor]

np

[north basin]

Trinket sims updated on mallet with upcoming buffs? Anyone knows

[void pecan]

trinket buffs?

[timid talon]

no, no where reflects them as far as I know

[foggy ember]

what are the best M+ powers for ass?

[timid talon]

necrotic dagger >>>>>

plumage will be pretty strong next week too

champions boon or whatever is a trap, the battleaxe and necrotic are way better this week

[foggy ember]

okay thx

[tame moss]

i've been playing assination for 2 months in M+, my DPS seems pretty good (average 5-6k at 215), but something that keeps sticking out is i seem to get hit by a fuckload of shit and die a lot. Am i shit or is ass rogue just vulnerable to getting smacked?

[unkempt pilot]

we're really "low" on aoe mm+ right ? cause i'm so much behind my friends it feels bad

on trashs*

[upbeat needle]

prob too much staring at your bars tbh. When people are new to playing something they have a tendency to focus on their rotation and if everything is perfect instead of dodging mechanics and putting themselves on auto-pilot. Give it a bit more time and everything will smooth out for you more than likely. On another note, learn which abilities are magic and physical so that you can prepare and use evasion or cloak of shadows to try and cheese it. Also, feint is pretty useful (costs a good chunk of energy but still useful)

[green vortex]

@unkempt pilot Get gear for a combat spec and a legendary for it. Combat is so insane people are bringing 2 cmb rogues into m+ right now

[upbeat needle]

positioning is big too, especially staying behind certain mobs that do frontals.

[tame moss]

i actually have my bars disabled, but i'll admit i am keeping my eyes on buff durations on name plates

[faint tree]

@tame moss kinda a loaded question, depends on what your dieing too? Tank threat or positioning infront of cleaves? I would look at all your deaths and see what they are from, that would tell you if your making mistakes

[upbeat needle]

ya that'sprob it right there

[tame moss]

its mostly trash

[upbeat needle]

yea just gotta focus on the mobs instead of staring at bars too much

[tame moss]

bosses are fine, but i guess that feeds into the paying attention to dots. i try to keep up 9 dots on trash and 3 on bosses

[faint tree]

Maybe play abit more zoomed in so you can see the frontal coming if its an issue of not paying att5

Attention

[unkempt pilot]

@green vortex combat ? you mean outlaw ?

[silk thunder]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[tame moss]

yeah i can give that a go

[green vortex]

Yea outlaw lmao, been playing too much TBC

[unkempt pilot]

0< i went to venthyr for sin

sad life

[tame moss]

oh yeah

is venth no longer best with nerf?

[green vortex]

I ended up going necro. only sims 2% worse, and you have flexibility

it's outlaw's best

[tame moss]

necro is just so damn fun

[faint tree]

Pins says venth is bis but necro is right there aswell. ~200dps difference between them

[green vortex]

It's important to note that any % damage to bleeds and stats can cause a huge difference. Right now I sim higher as a necro than a venthyr.

All of those sims are based on a max geared fully stat distributed toon. Hardly replicatable until much further into the patch

[rocky sluice]

!opener

[faint tree]

@green vortex very good reminder

[unkempt pilot]

how could i sim in necro without being in it ?

[green vortex]

When you load into a lot of sims, it's just code. You can manipulate the code to sim you as something you're not

for example- you can change your talents in the sim, without actually changing them

[unkempt pilot]

i'm not really good in sims x)

just copy paste things

[green vortex]

It's surprisingly easy to learn as long as you have the interest and keep your eyes open to the patterns

[safe barn]

and honestly idk how the apl works maybe @balmy condor can better explain it, but, in fights like guardian of the first ones, using sbs on the orbs is a good way to generate cp

and the apl cant sim stuff like this

unless you make it a custom one

[wispy thunder]

I believe it's under Top gear

scroll down to coduits

err soulbinds

and checkmark unlock all

[ripe saddle]

yo what do u guys play in M+

ass or outlaw?

[half oriole]

Atm ass venth, doing not bad but if i get outlaw weapons I’ll switch necro outlaw

[balmy condor]

it does that

if there's a target without the dot, it'll apply to that target with highest prio

[safe barn]

even when simming patchwerk?

[ripe saddle]

hows ass as necro in raids?

[safe barn]

i know that he does that in dslice

i meant in this kind of raid situation

[balmy condor]

well obviously if you sim a fight type with no additional targets, it won't have anything to apply it to

[safe barn]

its not 2 bosses but some adds might spawn

[balmy condor]

but if you sim something that has it

then it'll do it

1 target patchwerk is just 1 target standing still

[safe barn]

is there any way i can sim fights like that?

like fatescriber with that tank add

etc

[balmy condor]

yeah you can set up a specific fight type

[indigo mulch]

Dslice is your best bet.

[balmy condor]

but obviously would have to be in advanced

[indigo mulch]

or that

[balmy condor]

dslice is not your best bet

[safe barn]

dslice works differently

set of adds > boss > set of adds > boss

[balmy condor]

dslice is actually probably one of the worse things to do

[safe barn]

and no raid fight is like that

[indigo mulch]

Fair enough D:

[balmy condor]

HAC would be the closest I guess but that's more add waves than you're wanting as well

[little ivy]

do yall run doomblade on top

[cerulean nest]

wow i did like 1.5k better overall as sin just now, why was I drinking the sub koolaid?

in m+

[regal path]

Ive been pogging out as necro ass

[azure flare]

they're both good fam

[proper latch]

is Obedience still looking like raid leggi after nerf are sims updated with that?

[whole bluff]

You are just bad at pressing two buttons

[halcyon tapir]

Do any professions offer a dps increase?

[cerulean nest]

youre not wrong

[slender berry]

Not really

[whole bluff]

I would probably do 3k less damage as sin in m+, dotting all the red rectangles on the screen is ehh

[strange python]

is there a good weakaura or addon for tracking dots on multiple enemies?

[green vortex]

Could just make one.

[cerulean nest]

eh yeah. idk to me sub doesnt feel great in m+ unless its on a massive aoe pack

every other time is just awkward feeling

[halcyon tapir]

Ty =)

[thorny pond]

Plater

Most people use cevs or a variation of his profile

[strange python]

ty

[jagged bobcat]

!ENCHANT

!enchants

._.

[tame moss]

Where can i get this? i searched wago but couldn't find anything under 'cev'?

[hazy geyser]

Why does sin's aoe seem so ass on raid fights where adds live for like 10 15 seconds. I feel like adds start dying without even having dots up on everything

Or do i just FoK into CT spam

[frigid python]

!opener

[safe barn]

guys

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[thorny pond]

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[thorny pond]

Never spam CT

And because short living adds aren’t sins strong suit because it takes ramp time

[tame moss]

thank you

[manic igloo]

any particular trinkets i should be aiming for in m+? other than phial as i got it already

[thorny pond]

Totem

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[manic igloo]

totem? thats surprising lol

[velvet nacelle]

i was sad that my best parses on our guilds soulrender were because people were slacking on the adds on wipes, then when people were focused the adds weren't up long enough for my pad haha

i feel like the brand hits too hard

8k pulse + 15k on chain breaks on a high mobility fight, i was consistently dying to my second brand when my defensives/stones weren't up

[azure flare]

That doesnt sound right

[azure flare]

Are your healers not putting a hot on you?

I didnt even hit 50% hp even when we stacked 2 brands straight on top of each other

[safe barn]

considering that obedience is not absolutely BiS rn, swaping to necro isnt a bad idea right?

a lot of SoD fights have cleave that SBS could be really useful

[fleet moat]

should i run crit/haste or crit/vers on my obediance lego if im running both sin/sub in raid?

[balmy condor]

Crit/vers is probably the move

But won’t really matter

[fleet moat]

cool thanks 😄

[wild beacon]

Thinking the same but I'll prob wait a bit before committing

[plush garnet]

Is zoldyck best for necro m+?

[wild beacon]

Sims are in pins, looks like yes

[limpid bison]

This has probably been asked. I dont see the nerf in the pins. Hows the new venth leggo looking with the nerf? still the best?

[velvet wraith]

[limpid bison]

Guess I was just blind.

Jaden Smith stole my eyes.

[opaque tree]

just curious since I didn't get the chance to craft doomblade - does the bleed stack / pandemic?

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t pandemic

Works like ignite

[plush garnet]

Whispr you're sub rn? or sin

[opaque tree]

thanks @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

I play both

[plush garnet]

Are you subbing m+ rn? I'm just curious if its really as strong as it is on charts rn

[idle star]

sucks i have so much Vers crit gear.. cant go Sin

got barely any haste

[plush garnet]

Farm up some korthia gear and pray 🙏

[idle star]

yeh pre much

[plush garnet]

You can buy those korthia BOA gear tokens for 1k stygia you know

Depends how much you have stocked up, if you wanna go sin that bad, burn some stygia lol

[idle star]

dam yo ugot a point

16k stygia atm

[plush garnet]

🤑

But don't forget you're only going to be able to get a few to 220, after upgrading them with cataloged research

[sweet zealot]

so I was considering playing sin rogue today during prog, and I noticed that my gear is not optimized for sin rogue (I only have 11% haste), with that in mind, is it better that I play another spec?

[simple stratus]

sim the different specs with your gear set up

pick the highest dmg

[light kestrel]

You can have a leatherworker make you a full set of leather @ 200 ilvl

Or just use that for what pieces you don't get through the BOA tokens

Screaming shade seems to drop his dagger every time, killed him 3 times got it 3 times

[sweet zealot]

I did that yesterday, I do like 400-600 more dps with sub rogue, plus im more used to sub rogue

[simple stratus]

well thar u go

[strange python]

won't matter much anyway

there's a couple of fights that you might want to go sin for cleave

but then you just switch for those and use the same gear

your stat weights won't outpace what the spec profiles do at a baseline

[sweet zealot]

well it was more of a case of me playing sin rogue in korthia

and having to constantly wait 4 energy to cast my spells

[strange python]

getting tons of haste probably impacts that WAY less than you think

[sweet zealot]

then I saw my low base haste and thought if that was the cause

[plush garnet]

Yeah what % haste did you say you were again?

unless you're like 2% haste, if you're running vigor, which you prob should be

[sweet zealot]

11%

[plush garnet]

and you're playing the spec how its supposed to be

[strange python]

yeah with vigor which you probably would be running, you'd be fine

but sub is good

and if you like sub

just go sub and switch where you need to

even then, "need" is subjective

[vestal wren]

both sin/sub work fine

[strange python]

^

[vestal wren]

there isn't one fight that is super bad for either, mythic could change that but we will see soon™️

[sweet zealot]

plus we will also have to see how obedience impacts sub

[vestal wren]

its a straight up 2-3% damage buff

but sub is also slightly below sin in logs so it just closes that gap

[timid talon]

I get why they nerfed it but im disappointed now, i was hyped to have a new legendary to use

[strange python]

you still do?

[vestal wren]

its still one you can use on sin

its still the strongest option for sub

[timid talon]

eh doomblade is still better for st so that's what im going to use for prog.

I think its even better for 2 target

but fights like KT obedience might be better for sure

[regal path]

u guys think its worth upgrading phial this week or just wait a couple weeks before i start upgrading it

from 229

[umbral rapids]

For the nine i think the choice is fairly easy between the two specs though 😅

[vestal wren]

idk is it?

[umbral rapids]

idk. 2-3 targets for quite a bit.

Maybe i’m wrong idk

[tiny ember]

Doomblade on back and crit haste or just sim?

[umbral rapids]

Yes

[vestal wren]

first phase does not seem like the important part of the fight

[umbral rapids]

Sure i thought you’d say that :p

[vestal wren]

so yes ofc, you will do more dps in logs as sin but i don't think it makes to much of a diffrence

[tiny ember]

@vestal wren Doomblade on back and crit haste or just sim? ❤️

[umbral rapids]

… bruh

[umbral rapids]

P1 sounds annoying to play as sub ngl haha

Then again it’s 3rd boss, doesn’t matter too much

[vestal wren]

you can sim it but haste crit is quite save but sin works with most stat combinations

[umbral rapids]

Tbh I’m playing outlaw there so 😂

[vestal wren]

its not like huntsman

that was very clear in fav. of sin/outlaw

[umbral rapids]

Ye I know what you’re saying

[somber hill]

are most ppl sticking w doomblade or making obed?

[stiff thicket]

You can go both

[timid talon]

doom is slightly ahead on st and 2 target

but obedience is better beyond that

[vestal wren]

i think the smartest play is to use all strong legendary powers

[timid talon]

yeah craft both to 4

but i mean

[vestal wren]

bc. obedience could end up being better on some fights due to better flag alignment

[umbral rapids]

🤔

[timid talon]

If I only could choose one it would be obedience, since it works for all 3 specs and its better in m+

[vestal wren]

it just gives you more options ^^

[umbral rapids]

How so?

[somber hill]

downtime^

too

doomblade gets value from uptime

if u have downtowwn outside ur cdss it could cause obe to be beettter too i think

[vestal wren]

obedience is just sth optional, you don't need to craft it if you don't plan to use it

[timid talon]

Its going to be better on some of the fights for sure though

just because there are many adds

[vestal wren]

its totally fine to stick with what you are used to

[timid talon]

the first 4 doomblade for sure, painsmith probably, guardian obviously, KT if you're needing more dps for the ghost room, and sylvanas could go either way with getting more flag's in

for parsing though it'll be a different story

[cedar star]

Do we have a Spreadsheet with a Optimal Bis Gear list?

[timid talon]

im sure parsing will just be obedience aoe padding

[vestal wren]

tier profiles are decently well optimized, but probably not bis

[somber hill]

the single target flag dmg is significant tho inside vendetta windowss too i imagine

[vestal wren]

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T27_Raid.html

^ just open the spec -> gear

[cedar star]

I just know we usually get one for DK, just wondered if that was normal here

[timid talon]

it is, thats why its only like .3% behind in bis gear

but doomblade is still better and you CANT fuck it up like you can with obedience

I think it'll matter more on longer fights too

[vestal wren]

.3% is a ignorable diffrence

[lavish isle]

sub top dps?

[timid talon]

yeah but that's with perfect simulated play

[vestal wren]

yes due to obedience + sylvanas daggers

[timid talon]

im not saying its big enough to make a huge difference but i think most people will have to sim it with their current gear to really know

[vestal wren]

the chart is with mythic gear so take it with a little grain of salt

[cedar star]

Woah,. when did Outlaw become that much better than Ass

obedience nerfs rip

[vestal wren]

obedience is ~2-3% dps gain

what only rly closes the gap between sub/sin

the daggers are rly strong on sub, it gets just more value out of them

[timid talon]

They have a conduit that interacts with it, right? I feel like that makes it super strong lol

[vestal wren]

sub has better cp generation but also obedience/etc feed into it

[median aurora]

so with obe, what does flag timings look like for lining with vend, how much / if at all would you hold it?

[autumn knot]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[vestal wren]

you use flag with vendetta as long as you don't lose casts of it over the fight

[median aurora]

easy enough guideline, thanks fuu

[rocky pecan]

the simcraft from the link you give us @vestal wren isnt updated right ? cauz on him we see sin with obe on single target

with obe not nerf

[cedar star]

thats post nerf

otherwise Sin would be top 3

[rocky pecan]

y isnt accurate

[cedar star]

The difference between Doomblade and Obedience practically nonexistent in ST

[idle star]

ok ichecked pins and cant seem to make sense of it... What is the Master Assassin OPENER for Sin??

[plush garnet]

are you necro or venth?

@idle star

[idle star]

im venth

im starting raid soon i just wanna know opener

anyone?

[plush garnet]

oh sorry, I think for venth its something like

mut -> SnD -> mut -> garrote -> flag -> rupture -> vendetta -> mut (4+ cp) -> shiv -> vanish -> envenom

[mystic peak]

mut-snd-mut-garrote-flag-rupture-vendetta-shiv-vanish

[plush garnet]

yeah my bad, shiv -> vanish -> envenom

[brisk garnet]

Mut after vendetta

[mystic peak]

you want ur first global after flag be a finisher

[lavish isle]

and what would be rotation with obedience or Doomblade ?

?

samne?

[idle star]

dont i wanna flag with vendetta up?

for bigger dmg

[mystic peak]

can do to get 2 envenoms during vanish ma window but difference between 2 muts and envenoms was small from what ive read here

[brisk garnet]

I guess that makes a lot of sense yeah!

[lavish isle]

if sub will be stronger than assa it will be huge difference with dps ?

[cedar star]

Sub is more uptime reliant

[idle star]

im at 17% haste and my stat weights are saying Haste = Crit atm. thought it would want me closer to 20%

[brisk garnet]

It will depend a lot on fight, but Sub is going to be a noticeably ahead on pure dummy single target

[cedar star]

I think Assassination’s damage is better than it’s Simming because it’s less uptime reliant

Kinda like unholy dk

That’s not to talk shit about sub, just target dummy 100% uptime vs real world uptime

[toxic badge]

Hello guys, I have a real dilema for the soulbind. There is an option with Najda on Venthyr to have Dauntless Duelist but sacrifice a potency conduit, or have two potency conduits. So the question is - Well-Placed Steel+Maim, Mangle or Well-Placed Steel+Dauntless Duelist ? What is better ?

[mystic peak]

sim yourself

but probably dauntless+wps

[tiny ember]

I think you have in the pins the paths for each of the specs

[toxic badge]

I have checked the pins, but still asking for other experience

[tiny ember]

fair enough

[idle star]

Sin opener fels clunky with Deeper Strat

[brisk garnet]

Dauntless double potency for Tyran and Raid, poisoned katar triple for aoe and fortified keys

[mystic peak]

Yeah the opener is slow

[idle star]

feels real slow. Sub is like PEWPEW

off the bat

[north basin]

Btw how many stacks of flag with obediance we need to do every usage, for it being better than doomblade?

[idle star]

you want above 20

i mean it goes upto 30

[opaque tree]

what do you mean for it to be better than doomblade? It's slightly behind doomblade.

[weak bane]

In a sim by 0.34% yeah...

[timid talon]

doomblade can't be messed up, obedience can, so even in sims where its played perfectly its behind

[pseudo hamlet]

...but Obedience is also awesome for M+. Less legendaries - less torghast runs! 😄

[opaque tree]

I mean, you'll be swimming in ash by the time next tier runs around anyway, right?

so, won't matter

[vagrant bison]

why is obedience so good for mythic plus?

[pseudo hamlet]

Probably the same reason why it's good in ST... nice haste + vers buff 🙂

[opaque tree]

but yeah obedience is the most versatile of them all, but yeah on ST you mess up and it's most likely further behind where it's simming

[mystic peak]

not hard to mess up on sin tbf

[weak bane]

It all depends on the fight, if you're getting an extra flag because of it that can be huge

[opaque tree]

no, but what if shit hits the fan and you have to pull off and go do something because of debuff

or like you get something on you and have to run out

and you're in the middle of flag, with bad luck?

[weak bane]

That isn't bad luck that's bad planning

[wild beacon]

🙄

[opaque tree]

so then you're holding it longer when it comes off cooldown because of planning

and then it's still just behind doomblade?

[weak bane]

[mystic peak]

sure but good timing can also make it pull ahead more, no? if you have to move off between the flag windows, you lose basically nothing while doomblade could lose uptime

[opaque tree]

aren't ST sims just a standstill 5 min fight full buffs perfect rotation

[mystic peak]

also its better on anything not pure st

[timid talon]

doom is still ahead on 2 targets

[mystic peak]

is it?

[timid talon]

yes check the pins

[opaque tree]

so doom is ahead on cleave and st?

[mystic peak]

fair, nevermind about that point then

[tidal dust]

Is winds of winter good?

[opaque tree]

just seems like they're so close with variables that could happen on fights that you could choose either, just that Obedience is better in m+ scenario as well, but you could also pick zoldyk which isn't terrible either, eventually

[mystic peak]

yeah also obedience allows to multispec

[opaque tree]

yeah but I don't care about that, I'll stay sin

[weak bane]

It's almost like a square hole can fit shapes that aren't a square

[opaque tree]

been sin since BC, haven't changed specs except for cata for the leggo daggers

[azure flare]

I mean point still stands.

doomblade super good on st and 2 targets

obedience jacks of all trades

pick whatever u want in the end

[opaque tree]

yeah

[icy dock]

what trinkets we want

[timid talon]

[idle star]

we hoenstly take venom rush over alacrity?

[stiff thicket]

Who does?

[idle star]

the guide says

[drifting cloud]

[azure flare]

Where?

[idle star]

omg it doesnt

[stiff thicket]

[sick cairn]

is emeni 3 potency stronger than heirmir 2 potency gemstone?

[azure flare]

No

Soulbind recommendations are in pins

[sick cairn]

oh thanks, didnt see that mb

[vestal wren]

its the tier pfofile, its probably not updated to doomblade but i would argue that a .3% diffrence doesen't have enough impact to invalidate the resutls ^^

people forget how close obedience is in the sim. its close enough to make it still a just as good legendary

[olive peak]

would be worth it to skip a 252 ilvl weapon or other gear for the normal sylvanas dagger in the vault?

[azure flare]

You'll need to sim it but likely yes

[sick cairn]

a sylvanas dagger can be farmed every week though

[south belfry]

I mean yeah, but even getting 1 could potentially take months

[sick cairn]

true

[south belfry]

Friends guild farmed Denathrius for 10 weeks

0 weapons

[sick cairn]

holy dang

[south belfry]

I'm probably gonna take a 252 dagger if it comes from vault

Knowing my luck we'll be done with CE before 1 drops

[topaz echo]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[worthy moth]

whats the best stat for assassination m+?

fuck guides, i want to see players saying it

bc one ppl say crit haste

another crit mast

this is confusing af

[timid talon]

sim it

[hollow river]

if you're necro mastery gains a little extra value in m+

a dslice sim will tell you crit/haste half of the time

[worthy moth]

im venth.

[hollow river]

it's kinda just preference man

secondary stats don't matter THAT much

but simming yourself is best

[limber lion]

Generally for raiding crit/haste and for m+ it's crit/mast

But you need to sim it

We cannot answer it for you

[hollow river]

^

[worthy moth]

:s

[odd hazel]

poggers got the arachnid cipher ring

could of been phial

but i'll take it

[worthy moth]

i just want the next expac

[odd hazel]

why lol

[worthy moth]

covenants sucks

i hav to swap every patch

and that shit of domination sockets is frustrating me because i had to recraft my leggo

and im not rich to spend so much gold

i just want a normal game like wotlk system to play normally with items, nothing special

[odd hazel]

you dont have to do anything

[worthy moth]

blizzard really want to lose players

[odd hazel]

this expansion is fine

1: convenants arent that required, what covenant were you? if you were basically anything but night fae you're fine

[worthy moth]

a fine expansion was legion

that one suckw

[odd hazel]

2: domination sockets are fine, just learn to craft them and you'll be able to do craft legendarys just easily

3:

Normal is subjective.

WotlK had plenty of things people hated to.

[thin gate]

guys how does it work when u equip a 2nd sylvana dagger?

[worthy moth]

which was?

[thin gate]

do u get benefits from the 2nd?

[worthy moth]

dude, a 262 empty leggo on area 52 os 1.2M

[odd hazel]

sounds like its your realm.

mine is barely 400k.

stormrage

[odd hazel]

yes?

[thin gate]

does it increase the Procrate or damage?

[odd hazel]

of?

[thin gate]

sylvana dagger passive

[odd hazel]

wait, what are you asking?

stacking the dagger?

[thin gate]

sylvana dagger stacking right

[odd hazel]

yes

it does stack

[worthy moth]

are*

400k for an item dude?????

i want to grind those items on thorghast

not buying them or crafting them

[odd hazel]

i mean

just craft them

sell them

easy money

sounds like you just dont want to put in the effort

you had to farm a lot in WotlK too if you remember :^)

also people hated wotlk because it catered to casuals

[worthy moth]

not wasting money in leggos was enough

[odd hazel]

i mean, thats on you to decide then friend.

[worthy moth]

not legendaries

[odd hazel]

you dont have to waste money.

just craft it

[worthy moth]

i am! you know how hard is to grind them?

i spend 8h grinding for 1 piece

[odd hazel]

do you not have guildies to help you out?

mine just craft 235 peices and put them in the bank

[worthy moth]

i wish was that easy

[odd hazel]

i mean it is, make some friends my man.

i literally have 2 235 cloaks sitting in my bag to craft obedience/doomblade if i want to.

and i dont farm gold at all

gonna #off-topic it though so i dont get Hammered by the CF

[undone lodge]

guys, maybe its a stupid questions, but Obedience is covenant ability?

and do i really have to change Doomblade from hands to cloak? and if it is, so i have to farm doomblade memory again?

[worthy moth]

its a legendary.

[odd hazel]

Obedience is the covenant specific leggo for Venthyr. If you arent venthyr yes you should change doom to cloak

[worthy moth]

going to be on with renown

[odd hazel]

no you dont have to farm it again

[undone lodge]

i still at fae, so i dont have to change it?

[odd hazel]

If you're night fae, i recommend you switching it to cloak. you'll have to re-make doom though. you just dont have to get the memory again

[undone lodge]

so i have to buy the legendary cloak and farms soul ash again?

[odd hazel]

yes

[undone lodge]

ahhhh thanks @odd hazel

[dusky orbit]

has anyone had bug with general draven soulbind? I am renown 43 and still can't unlock him, completed the whole campaign, can't talk to him

[undone lodge]

do you know the name of the cloak, coz umbrahide doesnt have cloak

[potent dagger]

Grim-veiled cape

[undone lodge]

thanks @potent dagger

[potent dagger]

Np

[proud goblet]

running mostly m+ with MA and CT. Is this rota right for Packs? MFD - CT - FoK - Rup - FoK - Rup - Gar...

[limber lion]

Yes

[proud goblet]

thx

[potent dagger]

i'm wondering something , i've tested the sub spec and even tough i sim quite higher in sub than in assa , i'm having quite much output in assa

i dunno if it's that i'm not properly playing it or if it suffer so much from downtime :/

[odd hazel]

Most likely used to playin sin

Also the fights kind of favor sin it seems

[potent dagger]

i do raid and MM+ and i'm not willing to switch spec all the time , so i'm looking for an all rounder

[odd hazel]

Sin is fine then

[lethal zodiac]

what assa legendary is the first i should craft next week? doomblade? or the necro lord? raid > m+ > pvp is my prio

[odd hazel]

Are you necro ?

[lethal zodiac]

Yes

[odd hazel]

Do you have a priority for m+ or raid

Oh

Saw it now

Doom then Zold

[lethal zodiac]

doom on back i guess?

cuz no domination slot?

[odd hazel]

Yep!

Yes on cape

[lethal zodiac]

and i guess haste crit?

[odd hazel]

Yes

[north basin]

Btw the damage output of doomblade vs zoldyk in m+ varies with my group clases setup? Like when iam running m+ with some particular specs i should run doom and with others zoldyk?

[thorny pond]

No

Doom does well tho in PF and ToP

[gusty mirage]

Well yes, but no. Only play doomblade in top. New PF requires us to kill a buncha trash ourselves

Rip plagueborers

[north basin]

Ok)

[thorny pond]

Still a lot of ST and 2t cleave, not as good but good enough

[undone lodge]

hmmm, a very small increase...i guess, do you guys think so? any suggestions?

[odd hazel]

You’ll want to take the cloak due to domination sockets

[thorny pond]

Yep

[undone lodge]

ahhhhhh, ok ok, fool me, thanks thanks

[gusty mirage]

@thorny pond if I come over to the alliance can we become best friends?

[odd hazel]

[thorny pond]

Sure bud. I got a s2 phial so I can trade you

Been in a coma this week

[gusty mirage]

I got the mists ocarina

[thorny pond]

Buddy

No

[gusty mirage]

Some kind soul traded me the ooze trinket so I’m less sad

[thorny pond]

I’ve been trolling my new gm

He got the soleah trinket and my DS set has highest vers and only one in guild but regular set is highest crit

So he gets 3s prepull to try to get vers

But I’m never consistent with when

[placid pagoda]

I been reading that necro can have two trees, one for ST & one for AOE, is this the case?

[thorny pond]

True for any covenant

[sick cairn]

anyone know the opener in the raid for necro?

i usually go for muti SnD muti SBS rup garrote muti then burst

[south belfry]

Ticking Sack of Terror did 7% of my damage in +16 SoA

Pretty good

[safe patrol]

how does our opener look like a fight like the nine which has 2 mobs at the start? do I wait with vendetta, till I have both rupture and garrote up on both bosses?

[south belfry]

I put Garrote + Rupture on both target then blast cds

[safe patrol]

yeah what was I thought, cheers!

[south belfry]

Though im kinda shit

[thorny pond]

SBS SND Mut

[sick cairn]

oh

thanks

ive been very confused

[modern heart]

guys be carefull with shard of zed, it procs on vial, sprint, shroud

it pulls me out of stealth all the time

cancel aura macro on those spells seem to work

[thin nexus]

small question: does Zoldyck's Insignia increase damage from Serrated Bone Spike and DoomBlade Mutilate Dot ?

[sick cairn]

how

[thin nexus]

oh and Crimson tempest too

[sick cairn]

would it increase doomblade dot?

[limber lion]

It does increase SBS and CT

[thin nexus]

Ye, im silly

nvm

😄

[thin nexus]

Thanks

[echo geyser]

wow that sounds shit

just having the aura on u breaks stealth

or only when it siphoning health?

[modern heart]

when it siphons

it proc'd on applying poisons once aswell

[raven jolt]

I figured out the same. Seems like a Bug.

It also triggers on sap.

[teal bloom]

I ninja pulled boss once because of it lol

[modern heart]

it just proc'd on entering stealth

oh no 😦

[slender berry]

it proccs on every single ability

it just has a 1 min cd

[gritty mist]

how much % on haste u recom to stop using vigor?

[thorny pond]

BS DS is a build that requires no minimum haste

Haste hardly effects energy regen anymore

[gritty mist]

so its better on st bs ds than bs vigor?

[thorny pond]

Bs vigor is probably the worst combo from those 4 talents

[gritty mist]

ok xd

[thorny pond]

EP Vig
Or
Bs DS

[gritty mist]

ok, thx mate

[fallen ginkgo]

Any tips how the ST opener looks for Assa as venthyr with MA?

[topaz echo]

muti-rupture-muti-garrote-flag+vendetta-vanish-envenom-muti-envenom - normal rotation

[tawdry token]

muti-snd-muti-ven-gar-flag-rupture-vanish-muti-enve-muti

[topaz echo]

oh yeah first is snd instead of rupture

my bad

brainfart

[lavish isle]

Yo guys, im sub atm, want to change to assa which i legendary i should craft first ? doom zoldyk or wait for obedience ? ( venthyr, mythic + raids )

[topaz echo]

obedience is good in both ST and m+, so i'd wait a couple of days

otherwise you pretty much have to build doomblade for ST and zoldyk for m+

[lavish isle]

so ill wait that 3 days for obedience

[topaz echo]

obedience is very good for sub as well so yeah

[lavish isle]

and i should put it on cloak yo ?

[topaz echo]

yes

[lavish isle]

thanks

[wild rapids]

which stats do you want on it if you wanna play sub and sin with it? crit/vers?

[red plaza]

yep, crit vers

[rancid warren]

When damaging pure ST(like Guardian of the First One) as necro assa, do you stack SBS and throw them all in vendetta or just use it every 30 sec?

[teal bloom]

you use all the charges during heirmir gemstone windows

[light mirage]

So I’m seeing a lot of using mutilate from stealth. Should we not use ambush?

New rogue here

[rancid warren]

No ambush. You only use ambush procced by blindside

[rancid warren]

Isn't it better to save two charges and use it at vendetta+vanish window?

[topaz echo]

with MA your muti can give you up to 4 combo-points which is very beneficial

[thorny pond]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[teal bloom]

@rancid warren You don't use SBS in ma windows outside opener. According to sim the best time to use SBS is during gemstone so I trust that

[low hill]

shall i crimson tempest on single target?

[light mirage]

If I was going to use obedience would that change?

[thorny pond]

yep

Not during shiv windows

[rancid warren]

Aight gonna believe the sim

[low hill]

ok but i suppose main prio is keeping up rupture and shiv on cd and ct if i still have finisher for it

[thorny pond]

Keep up bleed, keep siv on CD

[low hill]

cos it falls off sometimes

do i get extra envenom dmg with doomblade for ct dot?

[fallen arch]

Yes

Think that’s part of the reason u wanna maintain it too

[low hill]

ok ty

[tidal dust]

Anyone have sims for domination sockets? I can get a set bonus

[cobalt pelican]

just use unholy

[undone lodge]

how do you guys avoiding losing CP? ive tried so hard not to, and it is so hard 😦

[odd hazel]

Losing ?

Over capping ?

[undone lodge]

ahhh yessss

over capping

LOL

[whole bluff]

You use finishers to avoid over capping

[undone lodge]

yeah i know that, but somehow i always capped about 30% from total

[vagrant bison]

don't mutilate at 4 cp

[undone lodge]

maybe with more concentration and pratices

[undone lodge]

unless i am using DS?

[teal bloom]

Do you have weakaura? My combo points turn red when I am at max or max-1 so I won't mutilate anymore

[undone lodge]

i am using NugComboBar

[vagrant bison]

well yeah, i have never played with DS though

[undone lodge]

WA is for cooldowns only

[undone lodge]

aw okay, noted, thx 🙂

[odd hazel]

If you’re playing vigor, finish at 4 ( so max -1 )

If you’re playing deeper always finish at 5 ( max -1 )

It’s okay if you hit 6 for DS or 5 with vigor but try to finish at max -1 as much as possible

Never mut at 4, if you’re at 4 with deeper mut and then finish

It’s just practice really.

[safe patrol]

would like more energy but ep vigor sims straight 80 dps worse for me. would you guys still run ep vigor with that kinda sims

[odd hazel]

Yeah, 80 is nothing. But that’s up to you

It also feels better on most of the fights

[pale fossil]

EP/Vigor is “smoother” and allows for more rotational mistakes and downtime messing with you, in my limited exp.

[sonic schooner]

like i m always saying, my BS+DS sims +150dps than my EP+Vig, but in game i m way more comfy using ep vig so i end up doing more dmg like that

[odd hazel]

^^

[safe patrol]

yeah nice, you vigor guys, if theres fights you would go Deeper. which fights its that if so then?

in sanctum ofc

[sonic schooner]

a fight where execute range is the most iportant

important

so definitely not sylvanas

[odd hazel]

Or pure ST

Which I think is like

[safe patrol]

guardian for example yeah

[odd hazel]

One fight

[undone lodge]

aye aye, thanks!!!

[sonic schooner]

guardian is not really about execute 🤔

but yea definitely a real ST fight

[safe patrol]

yeah was thinking real ST not execute but will just check logs but will for sure go ep vigor most fights. cheers for the help!

[quaint dragon]

are the buffs from the dungeons random or are they the same?

[sonic schooner]

always the same

[quaint dragon]

what are the best for sin?

dps wise

[sonic schooner]

wounded daggers thing

[odd hazel]

Plumage, stats, interrupt damage, necrotic is good too

The shield is a nice take

[magic gale]

so i expect everyone is looking to get 252 dagger from the weekly chest right?, but in my case i've gotten 2 from m+ during the week which i would be able to upgrade to like 246 when i have enough valor right? so would you guys still go for 252 dagger over phial of putrefication if they both happen to drop, and what are you guys looking to get from weekly vault?

[odd hazel]

I recommend focusing phial

[sonic schooner]

same, phial is only from PF and vault, while daggers are from dungeons vault raid pvp

[magic gale]

yeah im kind of leaning towards that especially when my current phial is 220

[sonic schooner]

if you are a mythic prog raider i would go for the instant upgrade tho 🤔

[magic gale]

i do mythic progress and i also do m+ as outlaw, so i might spec for outlaw to get chance for 252 sword in case phial doesnt drop, i dunno

hard decisions

[dim ledge]

It’s looking like doomblade > obedience in raid?

[odd hazel]

If you’re care about pure ST

Which no fight is really

[dim ledge]

Ah so obediance better on non st

Ty

[odd hazel]

It’s just the better all around leggo for venth

[subtle tundra]

i noticed obedience sims way lower with EP/Vigor so in the fights where you would play it, its even worse on ST

or so is my train of thoughts

[teal bloom]

for me doomblade beats obedience vs 2 targets and vs 3 it's pretty much equal

[subtle tundra]

yea idk what to say about obedience

im probably gonna go tier 5 doomblade

[steel bane]

play necrolord

[subtle tundra]

no

[teal bloom]

[subtle tundra]

venthyr gamer

[odd hazel]

I like flag to much to go necro

[teal bloom]

both are nice but I swapped back to necro

[odd hazel]

If the necro leggo didn’t get killed I probably would be it

I should sim obedience to see if I need to craft it

[tall flower]

how can i sim dungeon for sin

[rigid tartan]

What can we make of this? I believe most of the fights you go ep/vigor especially on sylvanas and kt

[tall flower]

is dungeon slice ok

for sin

[teal bloom]

Yes

It's good for rogues

[subtle tundra]

idk yet but i guess ill just upgrade doomblade and keep obedience 235

[sudden nacelle]

hey guys, do i hold my falggelation and wait for vandetta? or us on cd

[rigid tartan]

And I don’t understand why it sims lower with those talents I’d have imagined it should profit from ep/vigor more

[lost wharf]

If you get an extra cast of flag by using it on cd, then use it on cd. If not, then sync with vendetta.

[wide kindle]

I would assume it'd be the exact opposite. More flag=more haste/vers with obedience, so you benefit more from 5-6 cp finishers.

[odd hazel]

You have to know if you’ll miss a cast though

Would just take time seeing how your group kills it

[odd hazel]

Yeah, we shouldn’t ever really suffer with energy regeneration

[celest ruin]

just came back from a break, why are peoeple going EP and vigor instead of blindside DS for ST fights?

[gusty mirage]

Comfort factor

[odd hazel]

Easier

And like

90 less dps if that

[rigid tartan]

Haven’t looked it up in comparison but that means we typically get more combopoints used with bs/ds than with ep/vigor?

[tulip halo]

During shiv buff does one wait to reapply rupture/garrot or delay shiv until both are applied?

[wide kindle]

100%. I primarily use Bs/Ds and never try to use a finisher below 4 cps

I mean, 5-6cps

[quaint carbon]

should i trust sim that tell me to use dreadfire instead of phial (both 220) on dj slice ?

[wide kindle]

Reapply both before going into your shiv window so you still get the energy regen inside of shiv.

[tulip halo]

Ok

So always delay shiv

Thx

[rigid tartan]

I think you try and reapply them early if needed

So not to delay the shiv window

[sudden nacelle]

from what ive seen and read, shiv is basically just on cd, never wait on it

[scenic root]

Reapplied bleeds during shiv if they drop off, but should try to make sure that they are going to be up for the full shiv window

[pure moth]

You NEVER delay shiv. Unless vendetta is about to come up with in 10 seconds. That's the only exception.

[tulip halo]

Thx all for wonderfull feedback. Ill focus nore on the bleed timers
2nd question - is it worth to do 4 cp envenom instead of 5-6cp for 3rd cast during shiv?

[scenic root]

Only time you delay, is if you have vendetta coming up in 10 seconds or less

[tulip halo]

I sometimes seem to miss the 3rd cast... if i mispool or something. Hence my question if its better to do 3rd cast without on 5-6 cp or with shiv buff on 4 cp

I didnt play assa in years.... just wanna get these basics straight

I was quite shocked to have like 14%, parses with 5k avg dps xD on HC sanctum

[pure moth]

Share a log and people can help you

[teal bloom]

there isn't number of envenoms you need to do during shiv, just do as many as possible without letting bleeds drop. You don't ever envenom with less than max-1 cp

[tulip halo]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/doomhammer/squishíe
@pure moth :).
Happy to receive feedback on my rotation, if anyone can. If easier feel free to pm me.
Im rly trying to find big gaps in having.
Again was first 2 days in Assa for years.

[tidal dust]

Neco opener for assa?

[strange python]

Is Edge of Night any good for Assa? and is it an unique ability or can you use 2 of them?

[odd hazel]

Absolutely

[manic pebble]

do I really have to craft my doomblade again? 😦

for cape slot

[odd hazel]

Yes

[manic pebble]

damn you blizz

[reef axle]

Obe>doomblade imo

[manic pebble]

what slot is for obedience

[reef axle]

Cloak

[odd hazel]

Cape

[manic pebble]

well guess imma wait for it then

[lone junco]

Looks like y'all dropped the grg from subterfuge opener.

[crystal vault]

how far behind is zoldyck compared to doomblade/obedience ?

[odd hazel]

Unless you’re necro quite a bit

Zold is better then doom though

[odd hazel]

?

[spice spire]

Correct, shrouded suffocation was a busted borrowed power