assassination

[reef axle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/437126348679413760/862835667163283476/image0.png

Everyone else was nerfed? Lol

[viscid spear]

Assassination numba 1?

[tidal gorge]

Wow, I don't think I have ever seen affliction locks down there

[reef axle]

I dunno, was in guild discord and was like waaaaht?

[neon sequoia]

could someone explain why cloak is BIS for leggo?

[south belfry]

in short, domination sockets

[balmy condor]

what?

[viscid spear]

I had to go Destro on mine.

[reef axle]

I think this is first week of raid, so probly hasn’t included any nerfs/buffs

[timid talon]

Could you show me in a log where you can identify the poison bug, I had someone asking me about it and was looking through logs to show them

best case scenario they push it along and fix it

[balmy condor]

well

[timid talon]

worst case they say oh we know lol

[balmy condor]

would be hard to show that something DOESNT do something

[timid talon]

Fair

I was mostly thinking about looking at the proc to hit ratio

but im not super knowledgeable to isolate that in a log lol

[fleet anchor]

Turn to the side so you aren't AAing

Cast Rupture on a dummy 50 or so times

Observe that DP never triggers

That's what I did 😛

[short wind]

Tbh i havent really understood the domination sockets yet, is it the socket bonus that matters? I see we need unholy, does that just mean that 3 of our 5 sockets needs to be unholy?

[terse ice]

what is dp @fleet anchor

[azure bronze]

deadly poison

[south belfry]

double penetration

[neon sequoia]

what is the poison bug?

[azure bronze]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[silent fossil]

SBS doesn't apply it either i believe

[timid talon]

Ping me with a list of abilities that it's bugged on and ill test it and send it to my friend

[brisk orchid]

150dps quite a bit though when you think about it

How long has this been a thing for again, over a year I think someone said?

[keen dome]

!bug

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Bug tracker: https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/labels/Rogue

[spare sable]

So im reading the pin, and its saying doomblade is p much identical to obi on single target?

Is obi even worth crafting now?

If i already have doomblade

[south belfry]

Gives the option to offspec sub

And m+ as sin

[keen dome]

Also, dungeons

[brisk orchid]

Obi is still best for M+ as sin, plus it’s BiS for Sub if you ever play

[obtuse robin]

gives u the option not to craft it first

[spare sable]

I see

[knotty heron]

I feel like the CD will also make flag feel better?

[fleet anchor]

It's in the bot command. Garrote, Rupture, Shiv. SBS primary also but that's a ranged attack so a little more iffy.

[brisk orchid]

So all in all you have 1 legendary for several content types

[timid talon]

Thanks

[fleet anchor]

All of them apply other poisons like Wound

Just not Deadly for some reason

Deadly probably set to trigger on impact rather than cast

[south belfry]

Need to keep assasination in bay somehow

[trail mica]

i have a question that might have been answered before, or is difficult to answer, but: if i get 10 ilvl more, does that translate to doing 10% more dps?

[south belfry]

No

[timid talon]

"NP Ill get a report in tmmr Ill ask if I need clarity" fingers crossed

sent a dummy log of it happening and if i need anything else they'll let me know

[south belfry]

Is your friend Ion

[timid talon]

I wish

[tidal gorge]

lol

[fleet anchor]

10 ilevels is a ~11% increase in the item budget

That doesn't always map to doing 10% more damage since not all of damage sources scale

[trail mica]

ty

that actually clears it up a bit

[fleet anchor]

Technically 1 ilevel is about 1% increase but that's compounding

[south belfry]

But i guess that explains why theres so big difference between a 223 ilvl and 228 ilvl guy

[echo geyser]

how bad is it i heard about the news

[fleet anchor]

So 26 ilevels ends up being like a 29.5% increase in item budget

[echo geyser]

[pseudo pilot]

How much dps is offhand ? Like if you got slyv daggers main hand, what’s the dps gain for a 2nd one?

[latent stream]

Is there any good sims for getting pi every 2 min comparing necro to venth?

[south belfry]

You can do it yourself

[dusky orbit]

obedience nerfs something in our legendary choices?

[south belfry]

[latent stream]

Then Il figure it out

[south belfry]

I doubt theres any

Atleast easily accessible

[latent stream]

Yeah I thought so but you never know

we got 3 priests in our guild man, lucky me

3 diffrent PI whisper macros xD

[loud mason]

people running doomblade on tyraniq weeks? or zoldyck/ma ?

with the new mini bosses around, idk wich is better anymore on tyraniq

[thorny pond]

Doom for ToP is really it

[indigo mulch]

I'm wondering though, why is sin so high up there on the statistics on warcraft logs?

[balmy condor]

it does damage

[indigo mulch]

Sub was supposed to be the FoTM class O:

[balmy condor]

things that do damage are towards the top

[nocturne ridge]

sub is a fake spec

[indigo mulch]

Thanks for clarifying that Whispyr. I had no idea.

[balmy condor]

np

[strange python]

im not sure what im doing wrong

[latent stream]

sub is much worse on multi target fights and people are less used to play it, they also rely on obediance

[strange python]

ill get like 20 and above but not consistantly 22

[red plaza]

Also I assume people that are hoping to jump on the sub hype are waiting for Obedience

[thorny pond]

Sub also doesn’t have it’s leggo yet and does crazy damage with sockets/daggers. + people haven’t played it in a bit

[indigo mulch]

Fair enough.

[strange python]

i tried pressing buttons as fast as i could with flag and got 22 lol

i mean 21

idk how this works

[latent stream]

What you need is a PI whisper macro

[teal bloom]

it also depends on your crit, luck and a bit on haste too

[strange python]

25% crit 27% haste

[red plaza]

Haste too much

[strange python]

i pool up with max combo points and vendetta/flag

[red plaza]

But just a gut

[viscid spear]

Two Priests in my guild.
One casted PI three times, all on a Fury Warrior
The other only cast it once, on herself.

[latent stream]

Damn 😢

[viscid spear]

I was still top dps on that fight (Eye)

[strange python]

pff tried again and got 20

doing it as fast as i can too

unlucky ig

[subtle tundra]

i have an easy fix for PI

stop caring

[viscid spear]

I'm pretty sure I have never gotten PI in my guild runs so I don't care

[indigo mulch]

Just do what i do, become the raidleader and force them to use PI on me.

[subtle tundra]

then why do you keep track of it..

[viscid spear]

I only just became the melee lead, lol

[subtle tundra]

i'd hate a rl like that

[latent stream]

My man

[indigo mulch]

Of course :p

[idle shard]

whats the command to sim oil vs sharp?

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[viscid spear]

Someone was posting about his three /w macros to the priests in his guild to ask for PI, and it got me wondering who the ones in my guild were using it on

[indigo mulch]

In reality, i'm generally in the bottom of the dps meter cause its actually pretty hard to lead while you keep focus on dpsing.

[subtle tundra]

then, uhhh, dont ask for pi

[indigo mulch]

I don't.

note the sarcasm.

[solid venture]

That's why you never have a melee dps as raid leader :p

[latent stream]

Ask for Pi until you get king

[subtle tundra]

ah yes 1 sec let me check your tone in the messages...

[viscid spear]

Sarcasm is hard to convey in written form.

[indigo mulch]

[red plaza]

Need more

[viscid spear]

unless you type like this

[indigo mulch]

I thought that was enough. 😐

[red plaza]

🧢

[subtle tundra]

/s

[red plaza]

Or

[indigo mulch]

That dosent really matter, you only need to beable to play well on the class you play. Healer, tank or dps dosent really matter if you ask me.

[viscid spear]

I still prefer to use italics, it conveys things sooooo much better.

[viscid spear]

That was with me being an idiot and not realizing I was running Subterfuge instead of Master Assassin.

[idle shard]

I can just sim separately selecting oil both hands and then run another with 20 ap on both hands right? lol

[echo geyser]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[latent stream]

Damn that hurts

[viscid spear]

Guys, the Kyrian carrying me by my head is messing up my hair.

[fiery fable]

is crafting obedience still worth? or should i just remake my doomblade?

[balmy condor]

yes, its worth

it's good in m+ as well

and on sub

[echo geyser]

even with the sim results, isnt obedience at least gonna be more "smooth" to play cause u get more flags

[balmy condor]

sure

[fiery fable]

okk thanks @balmy condor

[dawn root]

probably lines up a lot better w/ vendetta

[balmy condor]

there's esoteric value to have more access to cds

[echo geyser]

i dont think so unless u have lust maybe

[white marten]

would we want 2 sylvannas daggers or 1 for ST

[balmy condor]

2

it's double the damage

[dawn root]

If you're able to get flag to a near 1 minute cd, then you'd have it up again slightly into the 2nd vendetta potentially

[echo geyser]

i think cev said it was never worth to hold

[latent stream]

Almost allways hold that vendetta

[loud trench]

Is there any guides to playing obedience or is it just purely passive

[echo geyser]

passive im pretty sure

[latent stream]

But you have to see if you're gonna miss a potential vendetta use

[strange python]

qwdym get flag to a near 1 minute cd?

wdym*

[granite jackal]

So I see everyone saying 25 Flag stacks. Is there a secondary stat thresh hold that allows that to happen? I am having a tough time even breaking 20.

[echo geyser]

obedience = flag cdr @strange python

[strange python]

OHH

ok

[woven ruin]

If I only got to renown 41 last week can I get to 45 now? Or will I be 1 behind?

[strange python]

i see

[strange python]

im getting random numbers, usually around 20 but sometimes i just get 20

[echo geyser]

cp rng

[strange python]

i haven't ever gotten under 20

but

[echo geyser]

and obv vendetta/lust/PI whatever helps

[latent stream]

Blindside procs

[granite jackal]

My haste is prob just low. Thanks ya all!

[blazing island]

hey guys sorry if this was asked but can we shadowstep the spiked balls in painsmith fight?

[azure bronze]

No

[blazing island]

tx

[azure bronze]

I tried it out today on heroic and I got rolled 😂

[blazing island]

yea >.<

[strange python]

i have 27% haste and i was told it was too much

[upbeat needle]

what talents are y'all runnin in in raid for ST? Same as last tier?

[limber lion]

Yes sir

[upbeat needle]

ty

[limber lion]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[viscid spear]

So we got to Normal Painsmith on Tuesday but couldn't down it, tonight we're trying Heroic Tarragrue.

[slow helm]

how shit is obedience for us now? and if we were gonna craft it what would be best for stats?

[balmy condor]

pins

[slow helm]

so still crit haste and basicly as boring as doomblade now? @balmy condor

[idle star]

Its still good. Lots of haste, lower cd. Some vers as a bonus

Theotar now is bis aoulbind. Wowee

[dim ledge]

no situation where using obedience would be better than doomblade post nerfs?

[ancient peak]

Does the dealthly shadows pre pull thing work for assa?

[dim ledge]

*in raid

[ancient peak]

I dont see myself getting the buff

[dim ledge]

I understand the pins show its better in dslice

[idle star]

The lower cd on flag = lashing scars conduit goes off more too

[echo geyser]

that is already taken into account

[mortal pike]

if you're running tempest on a fight do you keep it up on ST for the mut damage buff?

mostly just talkin about fatesciber here

[reef axle]

I use door of shadows on painsmith when I get chains

[kind talon]

not anymore

[reef axle]

Ima miss door of shadows 😦

[odd hazel]

fuck door of shadows

its garbage

[red plaza]

Outside of shiv windows, yes

[reef axle]

Literally skip rolling balls lol, I wouldn’t call that garbage

[odd hazel]

i mean

cast time is garbage

if you need that 2 seconds you could of just ran in that time

[halcyon zealot]

i used door of shadows occasionally on The Eye after taking the chains cuz i do think it’s faster than running but not by much

[reef axle]

Not with chains, you have to wait

[dusky vault]

We have shadowstep so why would you ever take the chain

[echo geyser]

u can shadowstep the chain?

[soft shale]

u can step the beam

i just cloaked it

or used door of shadows

[halcyon zealot]

oh idk, i still got a 97 on Eye, maybe with step i go 100 next week

ty for the tip 🙂

must min max every second

[echo geyser]

i still dont get it can u skip the chain by step?

[mortal pike]

nice rozay

I just swapped rogue so im juicing at 210 ilvl lol

getting 100% for all classes overall on most fights at least 😆

[steel palm]

Whats percentages for each stat should i be at?

[echo geyser]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear
through Top Gear.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[halcyon zealot]

whatever top gear tells you is best

[steel palm]

Ok thanks

[echo geyser]

answer: sim urself

[halcyon zealot]

we have no breakpoints

[steel palm]

Im currently 24 crit 18 haste 18 mast and 18 vers

But its because before i played alot of outlaw

Now i want to focus on my assassin mainly

[viscid spear]

Overgrowth Seedling

[wild beacon]

yes, run towards the chain like you're going to take it, once beam is past the front of boss, shadowstep and you'll tele in front of the boss and over the beam

[normal plaza]

how do u use [Deathly Shadows] leggo prepull?

[drifting cloud]

you dont as assa

[normal plaza]

just as sub?

[echo geyser]

so chain goes away if u get close enough to edge?

[wild beacon]

chain is irrelevant

[echo geyser]

cause i wasnt wondering about beam

i know u can skip that

[atomic saddle]

Did anyone get to test the heroic daggers?

[wild beacon]

i misunderstood your q then soz

[echo geyser]

yeah the guy said u can skip chain

[teal bloom]

The chain mean 2 things in that fight i guess

[upbeat needle]

what's assa ST opener

[echo geyser]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[polar ice]

Its worth simming your opener. not a lot of nuance but sometimes its surprising & with cove abilities it can change

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't really bother looking at the sample

it's good for a general idea I guess

but other than that

[proper sage]

do you go Ct on 2+ targets

[balmy condor]

yes

[proper sage]

tyty

[frosty gyro]

Should you pool energy in the opener before flag to prevent bad luck?

[dawn ivy]

no poison bug fix

[atomic saddle]

i simmed a 233 pvp dagger vs a 233 sylv dagger and it was -133 dps downgrade for the sylv dagger

[frosty gyro]

Then sims didn't include it lol

The proc is like 6% of your damage on sin

[exotic rose]

Hey guys, there is a situation that often happens and I'm not sure what is the best thing to do. Say I'm at 4 combo points and shiv is about to come up in 2-3 seconds but if I wait those seconds I'll cap energy. What is the best thing to do?

1. envenom to not cap energy but start the shiv window without combo points
2. cap energy but enter the shiv window with 5 cp and full energy bar
3. mutilate to not cap energy but basically wasting all those CP

[wary shale]

Im not the best sin out there but i would say envenom and then shiv when back at 5/6 cp

[exotic rose]

so holding shiv, that would be option 4

[wary shale]

yea

[dusky vault]

He was talking about 2nd boss yeah? Why would you ever need to take the chain if you can jump over the beam. For 5th boss I can see why you would door of shadows if you have to grab the chain but you can also shadowstep to someone

[wary shale]

i might be wrong tho, as i said im not the best out there but that would be the best option imo

[echo geyser]

ah now i get it

theres 2 chain in the fight

[exotic rose]

Yeah, keen to hear from @balmy condor

[echo geyser]

u were talking about the grappling one not the one that pulls u in

[odd hazel]

is this with vigor or Deeper?

[dusky vault]

Pretty sure it's option 1. You don't want to waste energy or cp and you don't want to hold shiv cd unless for vendetta otherwise you will start losing cast over the fight

[exotic rose]

sorry i meant max combo points - 1 (so 4 with vigor 5 with Deep)

[odd hazel]

well

with vigor you would just use evenom

with deeper you would mut again at 4

then just use shiv and evenom

[dusky vault]

Oh right those, should be able to run against them and hit the boss without falling off, dont think door is the play there

[somber thistle]

So shadowstep will put me in front of the eye of the jailer?I didn't bother to try it last night. Too many bad memories of shadowstepping behind raid bosses and off ledges. I'll try it next week

[dusky vault]

For me shadowstep was putting me towards the middle perhaps slightly to the left, best to wait until as last as you can to step

[silk thunder]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dusky vault]

Also just step to the boss early in the pull to see where it puts you, it was consistent for me but some people were saying that it was putting them in different spots

[somber thistle]

I mean it's not too bad to take the chain anyways. You can do dps basically whole way there and as you cross he is in melee range too

But thanks I'll give it shot next time

[viscid spear]

WPS from H Tarra

[balmy condor]

1

[strange python]

Obedience nerf pain

[viscid spear]

That was intense, Evade tanked Tarragrue in his berserk phase and Vanish'd before Evasion ended

[viral storm]

Obedience nerf? :o

[cerulean nest]

ayy got the Dom helm + Dyz

[craggy basin]

just saw the pins when i got home from work, soo we no t crafting obedience anymore

[strange python]

Back to doomblade oh boy

[craggy basin]

yea neo it went from 1% per stack to .5 per stack

[strange python]

Wym

[viral storm]

Rip

[craggy basin]

they got cov lego tuning goign live next week when they are available

[strange python]

Well ik but that doesn't mean you shouldn't build it

Time to build doomblade cloak

It outsims zoldyck for m+

Still bis for sub

And it's good in fights where you don't have 100% uptime

Like painsmith

[severe sparrow]

hold on i just read in outlaw channel that currently sin sims the lowest of all 3 specs for ST?

[silk thunder]

And panic ensued

[echo geyser]

[strange python]

Don't put too much stock in Sims. All three look extremely close.

Also just play good and you'll out dps them anyway 4head

[leaden turret]

I mean yeah but it probably will still perform better than the other two. Keep uptime in your thoughts

[severe sparrow]

i mean it's fine yeah, but i just swapped the week before 9.1 and was real happy. as long as we dont go back to how it was back in mid 9.0 trash tier then fine

[grim jay]

The uptime meme again

[strange python]

Sin is outperforming both so far. Though liable to change

[leaden turret]

I mean, uptime sadly isnt just a meme is it

[strange python]

Just because someone says it a lot doesn't make it wrong, uptime is a relevant consideration for sin over the others.

[severe sparrow]

i was hyped, my dps went way up after i swapped, so im happy either way - if the spec sims higher or maybe im just shitty at outlaw idk

[grim jay]

Sin dmg is like 20-30% from dot ticks and even while dealing 20% on downtime you have to reapply after downtime whereas other specs pick up on full speed again. Uptime is a general melee thing and multiple top rogues here said time and time again that its a meme

[cerulean nest]

a dom helm + Dyz shard only gave me 100dps upgrade from my 226. thought it'd be more than that

[strange python]

And sin and outlaw lose cooldown returns from downtime.

Sub$

[grim jay]

What I said still applies. As long as you got your sod dances.. :D
You can have that opinion and make it your religion, but many top rogues as I said already told the people it isnt that

[leaden turret]

I mean I am not saying that uptime is the biggest thing on earth and it makes Sin THAT much better. But it just isnt too realistic to take these ST sims at face value and say "yeah, play outlaw over Sin, surely better". You catch my drift?

[grim jay]

Thats more a matter of how the specs are played

You realistically can get the most out of sin relatively consistent bcs its easier and more forgiving

[misty holly]

How good is Perfectly Forged Credentials?

[timid talon]

better than other 226s, worse than anything higher

but sim it

[leaden turret]

Yeah I completely agree and I think that was my main point. Sorry for not wording it better faster :)

[strange python]

There's a difference between "uptime isn't as big as people say" and "uptime isn't relevant"

[slim siren]

hey do we have a trinket teir list or anything like that?

[strange python]

Phial

[bleak sky]

fuck painsmith, all my homies hate painsmith

[bleak sky]

gotta sim

[slim siren]

damn i was hoping to know if bag was good or to give it to my friend cause its one of his bis

[echo geyser]

Herodamage, but it uses template gear, not yours

Guess if u played last patch u could check the t26 list

Youll have pretty much the same gear

[kindred rapids]

Thinking I might have to switch back to necro

Obedience no longer seems good enough to justify staying venthyr

[solid mica]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[deft wagon]

Isnt venthyr still most damage?

[echo geyser]

Heirmir only 2.4% behind now

[untold nest]

If u only playing assa

[echo geyser]

And i think it wins on 2t now?

[deft wagon]

Well we are in the assass spec discussion so 😄

[untold nest]

Yes but ppl like to play more than 1 specc

[latent stream]

Heirmirs last passive will be 0 dmg on Sylvanas tho

[mortal pike]

in p3 on KT what determines where the ice goes?

I feel like my guilds running out of space SO fast

[scenic root]

My thought was, with obedience being so strong for both sin and sub, best to switch venthyr and play sin raid and sub m+. Now with obedience not being as good, could justify going necro if you want to play outlaw in m+ and sin in raid and not be suboptimal in either

[echo geyser]

Its true, at least emeni isnt too far behind

[latent stream]

Indeed

[viscid spear]

So we're having problems on Eye, is Tarragrue just piss easy?

[echo geyser]

You get powers that make u do over 10k dps so yeah

[kindred rapids]

Yes, but so is eye

The nine is a bit harder than both I think

[viscid spear]

This is Heroic tho
It's painful having people learn the fight

[kindred rapids]

Painsmith is the first real wall

The only tricky part is handling the intermission correctly

For eye

But all you need to do is split the raid properly and manage where you drop pools

[glossy wedge]

Every raid is painful when people are learning/pugs lol

[viscid spear]

Yeah but we went up and got stuck on Normal Painsmith the other night and tonight we decided to try Heroic

[kindred rapids]

I'd say heroic eye is easier than normal painsmith

[dusky vault]

Yeah agreed, my guild 1 shot heroic eye but took a good 15 wipes on painsmith

[shell panther]

what is the best necro soulbind for Sin raiding

[viscid spear]

I'd rather just clear Normal because we really need gear

[sonic schooner]

@shell panther heirmir

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/862282777315508234/Soulbinds_sin_91.png

here the info u could have found by checking the amazing pins

[severe ibex]

Guys I really need help. I have NO idea how to do well in AoE/Cleave as sin. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jvyZ4bHJVWfwdBTx#fight=last&type=damage-done

[oak sky]

I gotta finish the raud tonight

Normal

[strange python]

On mobile so can't check well, but are you making sure to hit those adds while they're taking amp damage?

[severe ibex]

I honestly can't. Our top 3. Especially the shaman and paladin kill them in seconds.

By the time I build cp to hit/apply bleeds they're all dead

[sonic schooner]

then go ST

[worn geyser]

BS/DS simming 70 dps higher than EP/Vigor for me, is there an argument to go for EP/Vigor that i should take into context outside of simming, considering a big chunk use EP/Vigor in the current HC logs

[sonic schooner]

bs ds always sim higher than ep vigor, by always i mean in 80% cases. You should go with what your comfy with tbh

[oak sky]

Ep vigor is good for burst and fights with adds

[sonic schooner]

for me bs ds sims 150 dps higher, but in reality i do 150 less dps

i hate DS as sinrogue

[worn geyser]

Ye i feel ep vigor gives a more smooth playstyle

And swaps to etc adds is so much better

[loud trench]

how the Ner'zhul trinket simming

[tribal marlin]

And fight that ends at before 35% kek

[oak sky]

Shes perfect

[tribal marlin]

still uncertain and too early but I might consider sub tbh

for Syvlananas*

[white marten]

best tarragrue powers?

[oak sky]

Ill play sin because im comfortable

[manic haven]

Is the only sin nerf people referring to the change to Obedience?

[balmy condor]

I guess

I haven't heard anyone say "sin nerf"

[echo geyser]

Was sin even hit the hardest out of all3 specs or same

[balmy condor]

sub was hit the hardest

[sonic schooner]

buff sin

[viscid spear]

Overgrowth Seedling is pretty boss

[tribal marlin]

both spec remains at a very good place

we're still pumping

[oak sky]

Ive been top on every normal pug so far

[tribal marlin]

you did multiple xd ?

[sonic schooner]

pug andy

[oak sky]

I dont have time to do a straight shot

I still have last 2 guardian painsmith and eye to do

Ill get them done tomorrow night

Tonight

Why did i say tomorrow

[hollow cobalt]

@severe ibex You don't have to hard target the adds homie

They die to the brands debuffs

[viscid spear]

239 WPS let's go

[oak sky]

Nice

[severe ibex]

Right. Honestly all I did for our last pull was apply CT and keep bleeds and envenom up on the boss, Which scored me the worst parse I've ever had, so I assumed I needed to pad more on the adds

[idle shard]

man Ive been getting like 5 subtlety conduits so far in dungeons and raids

226 and just got a stiletto stacatto 239 tonight lol

[hollow cobalt]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zvkgQ1AdHCqcJxMG#fight=33&type=damage-done

[severe ibex]

Nice! Did you just focus the boss for the most part then?

[hollow cobalt]

Vendetta usually comes up for dances

idgaf and keep hitting the boss during dance while dodging, and if not just cloak.

[severe ibex]

Yeah I noticed that. I tried to do the same thing. I guess I was just sweating too much trying to kill the adds

Thanks for the help!

[mental trout]

is normal mode edge of night better then heroic daggers?

[remote vale]

sim it

[strange python]

Really not sure why obe is taking a nerf while other classes have bigger leggos

[fiery mauve]

because we r rogues

[tribal marlin]

Versatility is ... a versatile stat. These amount were objectively insane

[idle star]

ikr.. super dissapointes. as assassination getting max stacks is hard anyway so instead of getting the 20-25% vers now we get a measly 10-12.5%

[fiery mauve]

the nerf is fine but it just feels like rogues get short end of stick a lot

o well

still no raid utility

[idle star]

our raid utility is meant to be our high dmg

[little moth]

would rather have big dam

[idle star]

but thats a joke

[little moth]

than utility

[cobalt relic]

You're still reducting the CD of Flag

It's still a very good leggo

[idle star]

yeh ill still be using it.. but thats the issue, i was going to use it anyway, gimme my vers back

[fiery mauve]

it is still a good leggo

but damg is all we have

[cobalt relic]

Sin is already the best damage spec in the raid right now lol. These logs this week are already without Obedience.

[strange python]

Which gets nerfed when it's higher than utility classes

[cobalt relic]

Wait until the class balance pass before you lose your heads. LOl

[fiery mauve]

it sure is one of the best damage specs

no one is debating that

but you dont need a rogue

[dim ledge]

Any difference in playstyle between these two talents?

[strange python]

I wouldn't put too much stock in heroic logs. Last tier rogue looked p good heroic week.

[fiery mauve]

if u want a melee just bring dh

ezpz

get yourself a raid cd

[dim ledge]

no im asking why the majority take ep, vigor in top 100 logs

on single target

iz just because heroic and more fun or something?

[cobalt relic]

ep/vigor are more burst. So they're better for shorter fights.

[loud trench]

or if you need burst for balls in painsmith

[tribal marlin]

the damage pattern is better as well

more energy = more time before overcapping

[spice spire]

more energy better, yes ofc

[proven ferry]

Seems like necrolord is the way to go 😝 I guess by end of this expansion I will have all 4 covenants at max level 😬

[nocturne orchid]

!bis

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[safe barn]

guys

in sylvanas fight

does wcl delete the downtime from intermissions?

cus my details looks so sad

[tribal marlin]

Why would it be relevant ?

If downtime drag down your dps, it's same for everyone anyway

[safe barn]

the difference between my details and logs

im justr trying to see if something is wrong

and how can i correct it

[timid talon]

a lot of damage is culled this tier and details isn't updated for it yet

[strange python]

Ranged?

[loud trench]

gamer

[plain thistle]

ok, I want the name of whoever did roh-kalo fight

good luck pugs

[tribal marlin]

pretty sure a weak aura will be made if not already done

in mythic it will be extremely fun xD

[plain thistle]

yeah, there is a WA already

[tribal marlin]

in heroic I think you can just solo every time (unless very unlucky) expect one in phase 3

so you only need 2 reactive people

[hazy geyser]

do you keep up CT on single target or just on 2+?

[limpid quest]

for the climb in torgash better to go doomblade or zoldyack?

[plain thistle]

are you sure?

[hazy geyser]

i go sub for torghast the healing in shadow dance is really nice

[oak sky]

Yeah you keep up ct in single target

But not during shiv

[tribal marlin]

Yeah you can do more than 180° it will go in time if reactiv

[limpid quest]

k

[tribal marlin]

unless you really unlucky and you need to do like 300° clockwise vs 60° ccw

[hazy geyser]

but you still refresh rupture and garrote during shiv right?

[oak sky]

Yes

[manic pebble]

what's the best shard for raids right now?

[feral kiln]

i would think that depens on your guild/group

[manic pebble]

hmm

[feral kiln]

depending your group might not be the best dps

ass is pretty fucking good anyway so you cant go wrong on ST

[manic pebble]

yea, true

[feral kiln]

also bleeds/poisons will tick even when ya doing stuff 😄

dont count em down

zoldyks is also really good execute if you cant get couple warriors

im thinking

going to zolds from doomblade..just for my guild needs

[orchid hollow]

do you hold flagellation so it lines up with vendetta or use on cd

[feral kiln]

flag and vend are pretty much on same CD

[hazy geyser]

on AOE with CT you just apply it and thats it right? you dont keep spamming CT even when the dot is up

[feral kiln]

i wouldnt wait unless ya need some PRIO dmg

[orchid hollow]

isnt flag 1:30 and vendetta 2:00?

[feral kiln]

it is ..you are true on that

outlaw idiot here 😄

[orchid hollow]

same for me mostly, switching to venthyr ass because its the st meme

[balmy condor]

you cast on cd unless you are sure that you won't miss a cast

[orchid hollow]

ty!

[feral kiln]

max out the flag with ya combos !

btw

with the new nerfs..our venthyr lego still the best ?

[spice spire]

It’s in the pins 🙂

[feral kiln]

it wasnt horrible

oh

my bad

[hazy geyser]

how do you deal with shiv on AOE? do you just use it on CD anyways

[balmy condor]

yep

[feral kiln]

if i can i try to line it up with vendetta and vanish

[buoyant mauve]

obe seems like the go to craft if someone is just starting rogue since it's #2 st and #1 aoe

[feral kiln]

i was expecting some buffs/nerfs so i have all covenants around 36 😄

[balmy condor]

I mean it's arguably not even #2 st

those sims have an error of 0.3

[spice spire]

Within the error range

[balmy condor]

so anything within about 0.4-0.5 is basically equal

[feral kiln]

NF skill could be really just how easy it to user

good*

[spice spire]

Obedience still bis confirmed?!?!

[balmy condor]

night fae is dogshit

[buoyant mauve]

well, looks like I'll be making it either way since I already prefer sub as my os over law

[cyan dew]

Is +20ap and Shadowcore combo the best one rn?

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[orchid hollow]

i really hope they buff nf so i can go back to it, not happy about being a vampire

[spice spire]

I’m returning home

[cyan dew]

ty

[spice spire]

To our lord and saviors the bone bois

[feral kiln]

even with the buff on lego ? not even close ?

[balmy condor]

LMAO

dude the legendary

was 0.5% up

from not equipping one at all

[orchid hollow]

nf sucks all around 😦

[buoyant mauve]

I think koji said it best "it went from the worst legendary to almost not the worst legendary"

[orchid hollow]

all rogue specs

[balmy condor]

literally the worst rogue legendary, across all 3 specs, that we've ever seen

[feral kiln]

aaaw ..my fairy shit is gone for good then

[spice spire]

Balanced design

[spring axle]

Any viable on assa bleed build with exsanguinate?

viability*

[orchid hollow]

yeah i really fucking liked the nf aesthetic too im mad

[timid talon]

nope

[balmy condor]

0

[orchid hollow]

i didnt want to switch i put it off so long

[spring axle]

for M+

[spice spire]

Nope - dead talent for now

[balmy condor]

even less than 0

[spring axle]

kk

thanks

[balmy condor]

it's the worst talent we have in single target

and gets worse in aoe

[spring axle]

that's a same

shame

[feral kiln]

i fucking love it how responsive this is 😄

[spring axle]

2212223 the main m+ assa spec?

[spring axle]

same

[hollow hawk]

I miss 8.3 expedient spam sin

[atomic matrix]

does it hurt alot to not use vanish in combat but saving for a oh shit i dont wanna die button?

[feral kiln]

if you run with master ass

its kinda poor man lego

i use vanish for DPS only

my healers are bitching for me on feint and not dealing dps

[spice spire]

Yes - vanish is a fairly big CD for DPS. You definitely would prefer to use it on CD, I’ve been known to hold on prog thoigh

[real kettle]

pins

[green nacelle]

Legendary choice:
Single Target: Obedience > Doomblade >= Resounding > Dashing Scoundrel > Duskwalker > MA > Zoldyck

this is still safe

even with obe nerfs?

[feral kiln]

i think so

[real kettle]

pins says something else

[spice spire]

Uh sort of checking pins it’s more obedience = Doomblade kinda thing.

[green nacelle]

obe is more for on demand

[spice spire]

But obedience > Doomblade AoE

[green nacelle]

and doom is more for contiunous dps

right?

[spice spire]

So if you’re going venthyr it’s a very safe pick

[feral kiln]

yeah constant or burst dps kinda deal

[spice spire]

Reduced cooldown on flag is a big reason for viability

[feral kiln]

also i personally prefer the use of use flag

[green nacelle]

cdr makes it so they line up every other flag

right?

with vendetta

[feral kiln]

does restless blades from outlaw work this flag CDR ?

[spice spire]

If used correctly, yeah

[ebon thorn]

i love salty 🍿

[oak sky]

anyone else planning to go NF since the legendary buff

[green nacelle]

what are the stats for obedience for multi speccing?

[balmy condor]

crit vers

[hollow jungle]

Good to see that staying necro won't gimp me that badly

[humble kayak]

Any word on if we're all still waiting around on obedience or is the nerf that impactful?

[wary pawn]

What nerf?

[timid talon]

its not bis on st anymore

but check pins

for the sims

[wary pawn]

Rofl rly wtf

[azure carbon]

Its barely behind Doomblade.

[open aspen]

its 0.3% difference lol

[azure carbon]

0.3%.

[timid talon]

Yeah but it requires perfect play and uptime during flag

[open aspen]

but its better in dungeons and multi specs

[timid talon]

real world will be much different than sims lol

[feral kiln]

Doom on cloack i believe is the shit

[open aspen]

so overall really, mayaswell go obidience

[feral kiln]

obe could be another one

cloack

[viral vigil]

First raid night... Get Decanter

[shadow helm]

can i get my free covenant swap again

[feral kiln]

yep

[open aspen]

free covenant swap?

[feral kiln]

you dont get BETRAYER MARK

once !

only once!

[orchid hollow]

with deeper strategem is it still expected you get 3 evenenoms per shiv?

im struggling to do so

[feral kiln]

i feel like that depens on your haste

[shadow helm]

swapped for the leg cov then they nerf it sad

[feral kiln]

venthyr ?

still good on ST

[shadow helm]

yeah but SPIKES FUN

[feral kiln]

i leveled all my covenants to 35 before i took break

spiky ass is good too

[shadow helm]

im 45 with necro and venth tho

[feral kiln]

spiky outlaw is spicy also !

i might go back to necro just fro M+ comp

[fleet anchor]

I don't quite follow this logic. If people are secure enough in their execution of Flag in general to swap to Venthyr (as the vast majority have already done) then Obedience shouldn't require any more perfect play than it already does. If people are regularly screwing up Flag usage, they may as well not be Venthyr either. Obedience benefit is essentially "free" if you're already playing Venthyr.

[rancid warren]

Just 2 will be fine

[timid talon]

It was free for sure, but now that even with perfect play its still behind its def lost a lot of value and even if played perfectly there still doesn't seem many situations where its better to me

[feral kiln]

obe is a lot easier to use than deathspike

[fleet anchor]

Sub had a ton of Obedience-specific optimizations but Assassination it's pretty much "just play Venthyr the same as you already did"

[timid talon]

I think fights like KT it'll shine

[rancid warren]

Dont you have to stack flag first and then line up with vendetta?

[feral kiln]

i agree on that just play venthyr on ass ..but a lot of us can/cant utilize it properly ?

[rancid warren]

Thatll pretty much waste the bonus dmg on every envenoms

[wise gull]

you use flag with vendetta generally

[fleet anchor]

You want Vendetta up during Flag not after

[rancid warren]

So only delaying the shiv vanish envenom to hit hard with all the verse buffs?

[fleet anchor]

Flag damage procs are a significant source of damage

[orchid hollow]

but i shouldnt delay flag 30 sec for vendetta, yes?

[feral kiln]

vendetta before flag for max energy and mac CP use

[orchid hollow]

because its gonna be off by 30, then by a minute, etc

[fleet anchor]

You attempt to sync the two if you won't lose a cast

By the end of the fight

[orchid hollow]

ok, so only sync at end

[fleet anchor]

If you lose a cast it's not worth syncing

[orchid hollow]

otherwise, use on cd

makes sense

[feral kiln]

koji is on the mindset i am

[orchid hollow]

and you just want to spam as many finishers during it right? thats how to use properly?

[timid talon]

certain fight lengths you just wanna rip it on CD but yeah if you can sync without losing a cast 100% do that

[azure carbon]

Worth noting that they should sync naturally with Obedience; if you're stacking to 30 then you get 30s of CD refunded.

[feral kiln]

correct

[fleet anchor]

I don't think Assassination will get 30 very frequently tbh

[rancid warren]

But really hard for assa to stack all 30

Delay is inevitable

[orchid hollow]

that will only sync it to every other one anyway

[fleet anchor]

Typically you can expect like ~22 including the bonus from Lashing Scars

[feral kiln]

fun as this is to figure out..i have to bow down

laters

[iron orchid]

between 22 and 25 is probably a good guess

[fleet anchor]

Assassination generally averages like 18.5 CP spent plus 4 extra

[iron orchid]

now that's really precise

[pearl drift]

hmm... what are flags?

[fleet anchor]

This is the precise figure

😛

[pearl drift]

is it the middle talent from talent tire 1?

[manic harness]

Any other boys in the chat not get SHIT from raid this week?

[fleet anchor]

I got a dagger from Sylv

a DEEPER DAGGER

🤣

Saw a dagger icon, was excite

Read name, was sadge

Basically got 2 useful unholy shards and some boots, that's about it

Was a pretty lame gear week for me 😦

[manic harness]

Same =/

[iron orchid]

well that's something at least

[azure carbon]

Whats a holy shard? I got 3 blood shards. -_-

[manic harness]

I feel so undergeared at 225

[fleet anchor]

Oh, I did actually get a vanilla dagger from Heroic for like a 6 ilevel upgrade or whatever it was, but that's pretty tiny compared to the real weapons

[manic harness]

Other rogue in my raid is 228

[iron orchid]

I got the shard of Dyz nuts and and the hands on Eye

I guess that's enough for the week

[fleet anchor]

When you get the unholy gem and see that pog tooltip "dealing 0.75% more damage" you feel SO POWERFUL

🤣

[cyan dew]

If I put shadowcore oil (main hand) on raidbots, he automatically puts +20ap on the other?

[manic harness]

Oh that did drop in my raid

for SOMEONE ELSE

[kind jacinth]

best soulbind for assa rogue pvp ?

[gleaming wagon]

marileth

[manic harness]

I think for the god damn travesty we had to endure that was 9.0 rogue, we should all be mailed a free Sylvanas dagger

Blizz pls

[tiny dagger]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[warped moon]

i rerolled boomkin for 9.0 raid

[toxic root]

What's the haste "cap" in pve

[north basin]

they just couldnt let us have fun with 1% ver obe.

so staying with heimir seems like a safe bet for raid+ m+..

[azure carbon]

No real cap, we aren

't a spec that gets a GCD/cast change. But at some point if you have enough haste other Secondaries give more damage because secondary stat value is multiplicative with other secondary stats.

So just simulate on any given gear piece, you'll do more damage that way, and its pretty fun. Raidbots is your friend.

[manic harness]

Invest in a raidbots premium account lol

It's so worth

[inland cape]

So, shadowgrasp totem sims super well and pairs up on the cd timer, but is it just bad?

[fleet anchor]

No it is not bad

[balmy condor]

✅ sims good
✅ lines up
✅ does a lot of damage

Must be trash

[fleet anchor]

Something about a totem people don't trust.

[oak jungle]

Unless its Windfury

[north basin]

i remember DE 226 totem from weekly cache back then. prolly wont return to me again for such a move xD\

[azure carbon]

I think its because Shadowgrasp was not implemented / correct in Simcraft for 9.0 for like 2 months. Was like the worst trinket in the game for awhile. Hard to shake that.

[fleet anchor]

I don't really think it was that low

It just wasn't hasted initially

[dim yacht]

has anyone messed around with using nightstalker in m+ with master ass leggo?

[fleet anchor]

So it was mediocre, not really ever all that bad

[azure carbon]

I'm pretty sure it was quite low. IIRC I had a 226 one that simmed lower than that crafting trinket. But that might have been real early on before it was implemented at all.

[worn pilot]

so boys, no need to craft obedience after nerf anymore?

[cyan dew]

Guys the option "+20 ap + shadowcore oil" on weapons uses 20 ap on main hand or shadow? If so, should I use agi or phantom?

[dawn ivy]

@worn pilot obedience is close enough to doomblade that its possible you could take ti on some fights

[fleet anchor]

Agi is very minorly ahead for me but it's really whatever

[azure carbon]

I mean, I would. Its BiS for Sub and AoE for Sin too. More flexible.

[north basin]

real question is would top guilds take assa or sub for mythic prog,,,

[balmy condor]

yeah, a lot of people at the start of 9.0 and stuff

[cyan dew]

don't think so, we're not broken and don't offer that much utility.

[worn pilot]

its good for aoe too? doesnt sim too well in dungeonslice

[cyan dew]

check pins

they have the sims

[worn pilot]

oh yeah, thanks.

[cyan dew]

np

[worn pilot]

looks like very versatile lege then, probably worth crafting

[arctic gate]

for necrolord do you guys recommend EP + Vigor or Blindside + Stratagem?

[cyan dew]

Sims yourself with raidbots, depends on gear

[arctic gate]

gotcha, makes sense, ty

[cyan dew]

np

[bleak valve]

anyone have that renown grind spread sheet?

[granite thistle]

@balmy condor what are your thoughts on the legendary nerf?

[odd hazel]

if you're looking for comparions #Pins

[granite thistle]

Im not

I

[balmy condor]

deserved and fine. It's still basically best single target for sin/sub, and good in dslice for both as well

if you're playing both specs

shit's still lit

[granite thistle]

Do you think it's worth crafting and using over DB then? Even if the sim is slightly lower?

[ornate lake]

basically got the option to go necro route with heimir or vent. Pretty versatile

[balmy condor]

yes

I do

[wary pawn]

best st? db seems 36dps moar

[balmy condor]

the margin of error is 35

[granite thistle]

I like the fact that it will make flag line up with Vendetta as well.

[pallid rampart]

Obi is good for 2 specs, DB only for 1

[honest needle]

is necro the better option now after the obedience nerf ?

[cyan dew]

pins

[wide hawk]

I'm assuming DB is more forgiving, if you fuck up a flagellation by placing it on a wrong target :v

[feral kiln]

necro could be better IF your can make most of it

[odd hazel]

i mean

no

[fallen arch]

Fuck that still going necro

Cos sbs is bae

[unkempt pilot]

if you fail flag on a target who die, you get some stacks anyway

[feral kiln]

i ditched nerco for flag

flag is decent on ST even with nerf

[odd hazel]

flag wasnt effected by nerf

???

[feral kiln]

leggo

[fallen arch]

We all did, but I want sbs back soo badly in m+ tbh

[feral kiln]

obe

[odd hazel]

obedience?

[feral kiln]

sbs on 2 shots..felt good

ya had to give up ST for good AoE

[odd hazel]

its not like venth had bad AoE

[fallen arch]

You don’t have to give up st, with necro sin is still one of the best st specs in game rn

[wide hawk]

I love the animation and sound of SBS

[feral kiln]

i hate the tab targerting with SBS

[fallen arch]

[feral kiln]

im not good at keeping up evertyhhing

[fallen arch]

It’s what you’re doing anyway with sin aoe

[wide hawk]

SBS tab targetting is the easiest ever, since it doesn't even drop

[ornate lake]

mouseover macro 😉

[feral kiln]

yeag it doesnt drop..i feel im getting overwhelmdd at point

its like famine or feast

[waxen socket]

Im looking at the sims and i got one question when checking the different links what does the dauntless stand for?

is that like a power from Nadija?

[wide hawk]

yep

[feral kiln]

ye

[waxen socket]

ah got it

[feral kiln]

ST

[waxen socket]

thank u

so same with triple threat theotar etc its just a link in their specific soulbind

[cyan dew]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[feral kiln]

theotar can be better on M+ depending conduits

[wispy thunder]

im getting a headache deciding which spec to pick

[waxen socket]

ye i just got back from 9.0 after 6 months

[obsidian socket]

You play rogue , you don’t pick a spec

[waxen socket]

dont even got assa leggo so i guess i stick to finality till i caught back up 😄

[feral kiln]

venth is good pick imo

[waxen socket]

ye i was kyrian first just swapped

but i already stopped the game after 15 renown so i got absolutely nothing atm

[wispy thunder]

was kyrian then necro not venth

now*

[feral kiln]

ya wont shine on AoE but ur ST is solid

[obsidian socket]

Crimson tempest can keep you relevant in aoe fite

[waxen socket]

Raid is mostly my focus. did 7 normal bosses alot seems like ST might change with difficulty but idk

[feral kiln]

ass is good on cleave also

[waxen socket]

ye and the leggo comes available at 48 renown right?

[wispy thunder]

so did they nerf sin already? i was going to go sin but wanted to wait until after nerfs

[feral kiln]

bleeds like ya were girl

[waxen socket]

since its good for both sub and assa that means u can "easily" swap between sub and assa

or am i mistaken in that

[feral kiln]

venth is good pick

its best of ST on all of the specs

[waxen socket]

Poggies

[feral kiln]

necro is better on M+ and pure aoe

[granite thistle]

@wispy thunder what sin nerf might you be talking about. No changes have been made

[feral kiln]

venthyr lego i guess

[wispy thunder]

ye thought obe leggo was nerfed

[feral kiln]

0.5 vers

[granite thistle]

It was needed.

[feral kiln]

that was fucking nuts

even still..on ST its by far best

[granite thistle]

25% vers during vendetta and reduced the CD to basically 1 min was busted

[waxen socket]

How did rogue perform in 9.0.5 in CN? during prog early first few weeks rogue was kinda dead

[wispy thunder]

thats a big oof

[granite thistle]

Sin is still right with spriest in terms of single target and 2 targets

[wispy thunder]

sin was under performing if i remember correctly for CN

[feral kiln]

i agree on that

[granite thistle]

Our healy priest gives me all her PIs though. So om blasting

Im*

[feral kiln]

but rogue is all DPS..nothing else

[waxen socket]

@wispy thunder ye i had a dk and a rogue at the start so the guild said just play DK

but now it seems i can go back to my true boy wonder

[wispy thunder]

i just rolled outlaw all of 9.0

[feral kiln]

m+ rogue is golden

[wispy thunder]

same sin is the loml i just want to wait for nerfs

[granite thistle]

Dk has better utility especially for KT/Fate/soulrender

[wispy thunder]

because they are smashing charts so im anticipating some kinda nerf

[granite thistle]

Other classes scale better with gear

They'll catch up.

[wispy thunder]

fuck it im going all in sin then

[feral kiln]

rogue doing good =nerf

[granite thistle]

But a lot of these bosses are really good single target fights

[waxen socket]

time to level my renown then xD sitting at a sharp 11 renown right now ROFL

[feral kiln]

i dont think outlaw can flex with this raid tier

[wispy thunder]

yeah i just switched to vent so im at level 3 lmao

[feral kiln]

outlaw=M+ ass=raid

[wispy thunder]

necro outlaw is great

i had a LOT of fun

[fallen ginkgo]

Was tired of Outlaw in raids anyway

[feral kiln]

necro is prolly the most balances of all rogue specs

its not bad on any of the part of game

[wispy thunder]

little weak in pvp aspect tho

imo

[wide hawk]

how big is the dps increase from the unholy shards bonus?

[granite thistle]

Large

It's the Shadowmourne proc effect

[feral kiln]

10-15flat ?

[wide hawk]

I got quite lucky with drops so far, but I need 2 more unholy shards

[granite thistle]

I have the bis blood, frost and UH lol

Have em all slotted

Easy parses right now

[feral kiln]

😄

[wide hawk]

I have the bis blood one, and the unholy 'speed' one.

[feral kiln]

ya going with vigor and shit ?

[granite thistle]

I am playing EP vigor yeah

[feral kiln]

Ep vigo seems to flow better for me also

[wispy thunder]

ep vigor was all of bfa

[granite thistle]

I dont mind BS/DS, but ive just been playing ep vigor

[silent breach]

i think Ep Vigor runs better if you are lower ilvl

[granite thistle]

Maybe.

[feral kiln]

224 scrub yeah

[wispy thunder]

just gotta pay attention to your sims

[granite thistle]

There arent a lot of fights that are super execute heavy as far as ive seen

[wide hawk]

I really enjoy blindside on bosses that have a proper nuke fase at the end ;p

[feral kiln]

sylv will be execute city in sure of it !

[granite thistle]

Like maybe Eye on mythic that needs hard burn

But I like being able to double crit Mutilate and blast an Envenom instead of Mut Mut env

[feral kiln]

i like vigo for the flex

[granite thistle]

Both setups seem fine atm however

[rigid tartan]

Doesn’t fight end at 50%

[wispy thunder]

nice parces @granite thistle

[granite thistle]

I get PIs

Im cheatinf but ty

[feral kiln]

i do all i can do to make our healers life easier

[wispy thunder]

are you gonna stay necro

[slow tulip]

[feral kiln]

venth

[granite thistle]

I'm venth

[wispy thunder]

oh oof

[slow tulip]

im necro 😛

[feral kiln]

obe is so good even on M+ outlaw

[wispy thunder]

was saying you were still necro

[granite thistle]

Is it? Weird

[feral kiln]

i have all covenants at 35+ 😄

[granite thistle]

Yeah im venth

[wispy thunder]

thats where imma end up @feral kiln

[granite thistle]

I dont care about m+ on my rogue. I push on ww

[feral kiln]

my guild is casual and we do mythic when we feel it ..so 😄

[granite thistle]

:p

I dont wanna do anymore keys man

Ive done 10 on rogue. 10 on monk

[feral kiln]

we got a solid group for raiding

[granite thistle]

Need at least 1 on dk. Was gunna do 4 but fuck it

[feral kiln]

summer everyone is jusr drunk but then we can raid 😄

[silent breach]

im still not sure how good sub is in this tier, like i would really like to go back to necro now and play assa/outlow, but i dont wanna get cucked again

(top 200 guild mythic)

[floral vale]

Am I missing something here or is it weird that obedience sims hundreds of dps below doomblade for me?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sj7Sat8dwwnpscATX5gD6h

[silent breach]

it was nerfed

[floral vale]

Yeah i know that, but the delta seems too big

[velvet escarp]

it shows -13 dps, no?

[floral vale]

Ah you’re right, it’s like 80 but yea

[velvet escarp]

yeah 71 difference

[floral vale]

Ya don’t mind me that makes sense

[slow marsh]

Well first night of normal down I guess

[floral vale]

It’s late I should sleep

[thick sail]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange python]

How is the average parse on fatecaller so high - people just not getting assigned to runes? Extra adds? The fuck

[plush garnet]

Anyone else having absolute trash luck with crit/haste korthia pieces?

[fallen arch]

Ye, most have mastery

For some reason

[plush garnet]

I think I've seen like 1 over like 2 dozen or so

[fallen arch]

I only see haste/mastery/vers

[plush garnet]

Yeah super weird, wonder if its intentional

[kindred crescent]

is ticking sack of terror good in single target?

[slow marsh]

Not really

We don't really get any new goodies outside of possibly the guardian trinket and the KT trink.

[strange python]

Kt trinket doesn't seem good

Unless sims have been off

[slow marsh]

Pray to ring gods for phial first week of vault

Rng

Kt trinket is better at the higher ilvls I think. Unless my Sims are lying to me

[strange python]

Weird. If I run sim on mythic it puts kt trinket pretty low

[sturdy bone]

So now after the nerf to venthyr, I think it’s time to go back to necro. Sims says +- 200 dps in pure ST scenarios and I feel like you get more value as necro. Any one with some arguments? Playing in the midfield rank 250-350

[balmy condor]

Consider the following

[slow marsh]

Lol

[sturdy bone]

It’s a bate @balmy condor

[plush garnet]

What was the venth nerf?

[white tide]

wow, this guy ^^

[strange python]

Obe nerf doomblade > sub

[balmy condor]

Obedience went from 1% to 0.5% vers per stack

[slow marsh]

It flattens the curve for us a bit but the raid is so ST heavy compared to CN that it makes more sense to just play venthyr obedience for all content. But it doesn't matter that much anyways

[worthy iris]

is it not worth using now?

[plush garnet]

Ohhh jeez,

It'll certainly close the gap a bit between venth and necro

[sturdy bone]

Yep it does @plush garnet

[slow marsh]

Just pick the one you have more fun with / if you care more about raid vs m+

[sturdy bone]

I do both

[slow marsh]

Or if you play offspec

But what do you care more about lol

[wispy thunder]

you would think doomblade and sbs would have more value

[slow marsh]

Where would you put your +1 stat into

[white tide]

• dusts off sub spec *

[vestal wren]

[upbeat needle]

how the fuck can I get a lashing scars higher than 200

[balmy condor]

Venari

[upbeat needle]

besides Denny

[balmy condor]

Or archivist

Just conduit upgrades

[upbeat needle]

pain

[sturdy bone]

Dogshit

[upbeat needle]

that's grief

[worthy iris]

so is obediance still going to be BIS or will other leggos take over now?

[sturdy bone]

Blizzard and their garbage systems

[sturdy bone]

Doomblade is simming higher

[vestal wren]

its good but becomes optional. Doom and zoldy(for m+) seem to be slightly stronger

[slow marsh]

Obedience is still overall bis for sin imo. It's -40 or something ST but has aoe value vs doomblade only being ST

[wispy thunder]

check pin, sims after obe nerf

[thick sail]

How do I get to the pins