assassination

[kind talon]

spec has no cleave

[crisp steppe]

yes

it's fine

[safe barn]

u missing the point that u green guys are gods

[crisp steppe]

you can just play both specs

[kind talon]

[fleet anchor]

This is while also doing #1 boss damage in P2

[crisp steppe]

but agree

[fleet anchor]

So the cleave isn't just pad

It's just free damage

[kind talon]

yep

[crisp steppe]

if ur in a 300 pull denathrius/rank2000 guild you're not good enough to make the swap to play sub optimally in 1 day. even if you did it probably would still be worse

p2 dmg should be a real thing in a guild at worldrank 2000

[fleet anchor]

Assassination being able to multi-DoT both Sire and Remornia is pretty big

[crisp steppe]

idk why i said world 300

at first

[safe barn]

especially if you are running necro

p2 must be a breeze

[fleet anchor]

Trick about P2 is just optimizing your DoT uptimes, figuring out how to refresh stuff and the timings

[slender urchin]

My guild linked me this one when I couldn’t make a day last week

[kind talon]

this is the main thing

[crisp steppe]

its also just fun

I love plaing assa on fights like this

sometimes i puke a bit on pure ST but what can u do

[kind talon]

learning when and where to use CT

[fleet anchor]

Like refreshing Garrotes on Remornia before she flies away, etc.

[kind talon]

is probably the hardest part

yeah that too

[fleet anchor]

You get a feel for it

[kind talon]

ye

also times when u

refresh outside of pandemic

kinda cool

[fleet anchor]

Sub is still probably decent on the fight, but gonna be 100% boss tunnel. May even do less damage in P2 because of that

[kind talon]

remornia is v cool

[fleet anchor]

P3 will be similar

[kind talon]

it 100% will do less damage p2

[fleet anchor]

Between the two specs

[crisp steppe]

yeah sub does less dam in p2 for sure

[kind talon]

blindside is extremely strong

[fleet anchor]

Less boss damage because of Remornia mechanic

[kind talon]

p3 damage shouldnt be much different

[safe barn]

btw vice

[fleet anchor]

Remornia being around basically makes CT single-target neutral in P2 even for priority boss damage which basically just gives you tons of free cleave on the adds

[safe barn]

from my experience proggin sire in the last 2 weeks

p2 damage is way more important now

since you can get sire to 37% before p3

[fleet anchor]

P3 with the new HP thresholds is way easier since it's not really a DPS race anymore

[kind talon]

did sire get nerfed?

[safe barn]

yes

[fleet anchor]

They changed the push timings

[crisp steppe]

im sure its a dps race for the guilds progressing it

[kind talon]

lol

[fleet anchor]

Used to hard push at 40%

Now it pushes at 37.5%

[kind talon]

wow

[halcyon zealot]

yeah extra impale cycle

[kind talon]

15 extra seconds

on push timings

[fleet anchor]

Basically makes P3 way easier

[kind talon]

insane

[fleet anchor]

It's a 6% nerf to the DPS requirements in P3

[safe barn]

you can kill him before that last seed

[fleet anchor]

Just shifts it to P2 instead

[indigo ginkgo]

but he asked for a bug in poisons !? are they real ?

[fleet anchor]

Yes but not really a big deal

[kind talon]

its not a new bug

just freshly implemented in sims

[indigo ginkgo]

9.1 things from our loved indie company

[kind talon]

since assassination rogue has been the best mdps spec for sire since 9.05

the bug being addressed in sims doesnt really change anything about viability

[fleet anchor]

But yeah, bottom line is that I wouldn't swap. Especially not just for a single week, since there's a lot of learning associated with that

Assassination is very good for Sire

[indigo ginkgo]

t

[kind talon]

t

[indigo ginkgo]

thanks

[slender urchin]

This sin bug has been around?

Since before 9.1?

[smoky oyster]

hi, what'll be the go to covenant for sin this 9.1? I tried out necro and did get quite a good damage bump for M+ but i'm hearing people saying that new venth lego is insane?

[alpine latch]

[smoky oyster]

oh ok thank yoU!

[pallid panther]

heyo what level renown do i start grinding campaign in order to get to 40+? 34 safe?

fresh campaign lol

[balmy condor]

32

[pallid panther]

ezclap

HOA is so broken

[cedar star]

So are we building Obedience now after the sims or staying Doomblade

The pin shows the sim, just making sure

[balmy condor]

yes, obedience is crazy

[cedar star]

Which slot?

[spice spire]

back

[dusk basalt]

odds on obedience making it past the heroic or mythic tuning patch?

[smoky oyster]

so is deathspike actually bad or it hasnt been simed?

[merry mountain]

32 even though we get 18 from the campaign??? I figured we could start campaign at 22 now… and that’ll get you to 40

[unkempt pilot]

obedience is 48 renow anyway, so we have time

[spice spire]

after the nerf it's worse than zoldyck's in similar scenarios @smoky oyster

it's not that it's bad, it's just less good than it's competition

[west geode]

If i swtich today.... to venthyr... can i get back to 42 before tues? if i grind the hell out of it?

[kind talon]

its bad

deathspike is bad

[gusty mirage]

probably yeah

[cedar star]

If we are Venthyr, do we just use Obedience for all situations

Guessing yes

[kind talon]

yes

[gusty mirage]

@west geode people were reporting the world boss dropping 3 renown for them when they were under 40 renown

[edgy sky]

if you empowered garrote a existing garrote is it gonna last for 20+ sec or is it more like ignite?

[west geode]

done it already damn

[tender folio]

So only 2 renown this week ?

[west geode]

think ill stick with necro through mythic week then

[sharp panther]

took me like 2 days to get to 42 so youll be fine

[west geode]

with M+ necro stil competitive?

[pallid panther]

i got to 33 in 8 hours doing hoa skip

and have done 0 campaign yet

[gusty mirage]

yeah its super quick, which is nice

[spice spire]

Competitive, sure, but not the best. That's venthyr still

[steel geyser]

Do we have any sims of Venthyr sin/sub without obedience?
I suppose sin is ahead with doomblade compared to finality sub

[dusk basalt]

i just crafted a 235 doomblade, just wonder if i should bother swapping to venthyr, I am only 18 renown in necro atm

[gusty mirage]

venthyr with doomblade is in the pins afaik

or was

but it was super close to the others

[somber kettle]

venthyr or necro?

[steel geyser]

Is it?

[spice spire]

yeah it's not just the top profile for each oxi

[gusty mirage]

It was in the last set of sims @steel geyser thats my b :9

[spice spire]

it's much closer to gemstones than obedience, essentially

[gusty mirage]

yeah it was around 9800 from what I remember

[smoky oyster]

I guess.. back to venthyr..

[steel geyser]

Yea I just clicked on pinned link there is what I seek, very close but sin slight ahead

[somber kettle]

back to venthyr?

[smoky oyster]

yeah, I tried messing aroud with necro and it was quite good. but it seems that huge dps bump from that venth lego isnt very negligible

[safe whale]

I'm thinking about returning to vampire too, I was running necro to play outlaw in m+ but my focus is raid

[tiny sierra]

Im sorry this is such a stupid question but where tf do we change covenants now??

[somber dove]

is there a complete st fight or a fight where u wont really profit from sbs cp generation that matters in sanctum?

[lean coral]

same palce as always?

[tiny sierra]

none of the guys are there to talk to in the main room in Oribos?

[lean coral]

are they gathered around the middle

[loud light]

gotta do the battle for ardenweald first

[lean coral]

if so do the intro quest

and they go back

[tiny sierra]

ok dope thank you

[leaden turret]

I mean, there will be fights with some add like things, but nothing where you wouldnt value Necro over venth tbh

[tiny sierra]

yeah wtf theres options to join necro night fae and venthyr here but the kyrian guy isnt giving me the choice..

[teal mountain]

who think here that the venthyr legendary will be nerf ?

[timid talon]

No one, its not op

[teal mountain]

noice

because when I saw that I was like 😮

[thorny pond]

That's an indication the other leggos aren't good

not that obedience is OP

[tribal marlin]

Venth Rogue/War leggo are objectively overpowered.

[rose violet]

easier to nerf 1 than to buff 7 tho

[tribal marlin]

Doesn't mean it will be nerfed, doesn't mean the spec is better than others.

[thorny pond]

relative to? Hardly in the same class some early 9.0 leggos were

[tribal marlin]

From the War perspective it's a bit tricky because they DO bring a lot of raid value : They have a strong raid cooldown, a raid buff, lot of defensive etc...

but for rogue ...

[tribal marlin]

If you refer to BOAT, it has been nerfed

Venth Rogue have a damage pattern really desirable. Plus the versatility from Obedience also reduce damage taken

It means, if you are a Rogue you can basically step out of AMZ (leaving more damage reduction for your gmates) if you have Flag buff up, because you don't care about it, you have your own "personnal" AMZ : Flag

• Rogue is already really strong defensive wise

[craggy ruin]

guys it's venthyr rogue so much better then necro rogue

[thorny pond]

Pins

[craggy ruin]

thx

[thorny pond]

I'm assuming that was a question and not a declaration lol

[craggy ruin]

question

i don't use question marks

xd

[thorny pond]

And they say I'm the toxic one

[leaden turret]

even if they nerf it. We get a free Covenant reroll with next hotfix, so it's fine if people go venth

[tribal marlin]

I think Venthyr is a much more desirable covenant for mythic raid early progression

[west cove]

why would they nerf a spec which is placed like 7th or something tho

[tribal marlin]

what kind of ranking you refer too ?

[thorny pond]

Please don't rank specs according to sims lol

[tribal marlin]

simdps ranking ?

[thorny pond]

Blizzard has internal metrics they use

[west cove]

yeah simdps

[tribal marlin]

I think we're higher than 7th actually

[west cove]

can u elaborate

[pliant nest]

if its about patchwerk sim we should def be higher than 7th

[thorny pond]

Looking at simcraft DPS ranks is hardly a productive way to measure a spec's strengths

[craggy ruin]

So guys if I am necro assa which leggo shoul i play? (Raid)

[thorny pond]

They've said many times they don't look at the public sims to make determination since they have those numbers internally which are more comprehensive. They look at spec participation and mean values rather than bleeding edge

[fleet anchor]

Kinda both. Technically speaking the legendary budget is 5-6% 😛

It used to be 3% in beta, but they increased it because that was just sad

Not everything was brought up correctly

[thorny pond]

Then they need to compensate the specs accordingly

Hunters still in shambles

[pliant nest]

oh right hunters still exist

[fleet anchor]

But atm Doomblade and Dashing are about 1-1.5% overbudget and the others are 1-1.5% underbudget

[tranquil notch]

I heard rogues have more than 2 specs. But that might be a rumour.

[fleet anchor]

Obedience is actually the only Assassination legendary that is wildly disconnected from the budget target

As to if it will matter? Who knows. Blizzard is unpredictable with tuning.

[tribal marlin]

Again, it doesn't mean it need a nerf.

[thorny pond]

There are many knobs with which to tune a spec

[pliant nest]

well they usually tune based on data from hc week, but obedience wont be available then.. so maybe its just overlooked

[tribal marlin]

It is overpowered, yes. Should they nerf it ? I don't think so

[thorny pond]

I'd hope that if they blanket nerf a spec with a cov leggo nerf they compensate the specs it hurts the most

[fleet anchor]

I don't really think they will feel they need to "compensate" for something that isn't even in the game yet though. I know people are mentally invested in the fact that it sims high but literally nobody has it and nobody will have it for another week or two (depending on Campaign progress)

[tribal marlin]

Rogues needs to be above average to exists in raids.

[thorny pond]

No

[fleet anchor]

If classes are high or low in Heroic/first Mythic week they will aura tune

OP Legendaries aren't the only viable route to balance 😛

Alternatively they could randomly decide Rogues are too high and aura nerf while leaving Obedience how it is

Who really knows

[thorny pond]

It also depends on what they feel the average DPS of a spec needs to be

[west cove]

what does aura nerf means

[thorny pond]

They just buff everything by a %

[fleet anchor]

Every class has a spell with a global damage modifier that they can easily raise and lower to globally tune a spec

[tribal marlin]

There is no world where you bring a Rogue in raid unless it does significantively more than average melee dps.

It's an issue. They know it's an issue.

That's not something that can be changed easily.

[fleet anchor]

I mean Rogues will do more than "average melee dps" almost certainly even without Obedience

[thorny pond]

Cool. Didn't know we were talking about Limit and Echo and not the average raider. Did you enjoy bench raiding CN?

[fleet anchor]

If Assassination had 9.0.5 tuning at 9.0 it would have absolutely been brought to prog

[west cove]

yeah

[fleet anchor]

And the landscape really hasn't changed that much with 9.1

[thorny pond]

Max has done more harm than good to steer the landscape for the average guild

[tribal marlin]

You'll be surprise down to which world rank you get benched for playing a subobtimal class. Acutally way under 200

[thorny pond]

Like if your best player is a rogue, guess what, he was in

[fleet anchor]

DKs were hogging the melee spots due to utility at least as much if not more than due to DPS though

[thorny pond]

I mean I've raided in top guilds and it was hardly ever a discussion.

[fleet anchor]

They did decent DPS but that wasn't really the reason they took the spots

It was mostly because of AMZ being very very good

[thorny pond]

But sure, lets perpetuate the myth that these top 10 guilds didn't bring rogues at all

When in reality it was a handful

[tribal marlin]

Exorsus had one during CN

[pliant nest]

yes, but people only watch the top 2

[fleet anchor]

I mean on one hand, it was a low watermark early on

[west cove]

so you are happy how rog was in 9.0?

[thorny pond]

I am not happy with how they were

[strange python]

venthyr/necro will be a huge difference in ST or nah for raiding ?

[thorny pond]

So far, it seems so

[strange python]

debating swapping to venthyr for my raid group

[fleet anchor]

It's the first WF prog in a long time where the WF guild itself did not use a Rogue. I think I determined it was actually the only time the WF guild did not use a Rogue on any prog kill.

[tribal marlin]

But still, with the shape that the game take as of today. Rogues have really little things to put on the table against other melee class, if it's not DPS.

[fleet anchor]

However

That is really ignoring the fact that Rogues got a lot of buffs in 9.0.5 and 9.1

And look pretty solid now

So it's doubtful the feeling will be as negative this tier

Obedience or not

[thorny pond]

Cheat Death, Cloak, Mobility, 3 DPS specs with different niches: 9.0 was rough but we can't pretend OL wasn't a spec. It fell off on some fights but shined on others

[fleet anchor]

Most Mythic raiding guilds ran with 1-2 Rogues on the majority of fights, it's not like it was a dead class. It just didn't feel great to be outshined at everything during early prog. 😛

[merry mountain]

fine we’ll all just reroll. 😂🤷🏻‍♀️

[tribal marlin]

What class did you play in your world top raiding journey @thorny pond

[thorny pond]

Rogue

[tribal marlin]

when ?

[thorny pond]

During Legion before I became washed

[fleet anchor]

Like I was in kill comp for every single boss other than Sludgefist in pre-9.0.5 mostly playing Outlaw after the first week as Sub. Rogue wasn't really a liability like some dead specs, it just wasn't blockbuster required spec.

[strange python]

how many of you mythic raiders are going venthyr/necro ?

i see a lot of top rogues going venth

[thorny pond]

That seems to be the sentiment currently yes Tobey

[fleet anchor]

I'd be surprised if there are any Assassination mains that will be raiding as NF or Kyrian

[west cove]

lol

[thorny pond]

Not like we were prior to 9.1 lol

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I mean that plays into it of course

Kyrian has always been weak for Assassination 😛

NF was serviceable though, just not optimal

[tribal marlin]

I'm not a top10 raider, but with my guild we invest a lot of our time into raiding. We play WoW for the raid content. We don't care about DPS race, logs, things like this. We only care about killing bosses, with the best possible ranking.

[thorny pond]

A good rogue rerolling to be bad on a balance druid is bad for the raid

[strange python]

is @balmy condor going venth or necro?

[tribal marlin]

And I really don't see me forcing my guild to bring me in, with a suboptimal class, in a given progression.

[west cove]

no good rog will be ever bad balance

kek

[gusty mirage]

venthyr, he plans on playing a lot of sub

[tribal marlin]

And if they can't find a capable player their confortable with to play the requiered class, then it has to be me.

[thorny pond]

Even at US 20th we didn't care, we brought who was best and what they were best at. Did it suck that we had some people who wanted to play demo when it wasn't the best lock spec? Yea but they rocked it

[fleet anchor]

I don't really think Rogue was in a place where it would have been actively detrimental though Mikihisa, other than in the top-10 situation if that.

And we've only been buffed since 9.0

So I'm really not concerned about this tier

[tribal marlin]

It was during CN

[gusty mirage]

[tribal marlin]

I should have a played DK, we had no DK

[fleet anchor]

I don't really agree that Outlaw Rogue was detrimental in CN.

[thorny pond]

Outlaw rogue was in CN

[fleet anchor]

It was non-optimal but it was totally fine as a filler raid slot

[thorny pond]

that's the polite way to put it

However they still had strengths on tough bosses

[fleet anchor]

Assassination was garbage in CN but we knew that from beta

That they were 20% behind everyone

[thorny pond]

and let others be better for it

[tribal marlin]

It's not the fact that I was rogue that was detrimental. It's the fact that I was one of the melee player in the roster that was capable of playing DK and I didn't. And we ended up struggling because no DK

[gusty mirage]

hey I played outlaw for raid before 9.0.5

[thorny pond]

A good outlaw in CN allowed other specs to focus at being their best

[fleet anchor]

Sub and Outlaw were totally "viable" 9.0 raiding specs for non-WF guilds.

[thorny pond]

that was our utility

[gusty mirage]

my best performance was 6th or 7th on the meters

[fleet anchor]

Very few guilds just have 5 DKs sitting around to fill spots on a whim

[gusty mirage]

99 parse, 7th on meters

[thorny pond]

Which sounds shitty being the trashman and utility player but someone has to do it

[thorny pond]

Yea but we love you

So that's fine

[fleet anchor]

The spec meta really only matters for guilds with forced alts or huge rosters

[gusty mirage]

my RL started laughing when he saw that

[fleet anchor]

Otherwise they just bring their best players

[tribal marlin]

But what if you don't have any DK at all ?

[gusty mirage]

he was like "You got out DPS'd by a green parsing boomie"

[tribal marlin]

You bench your melee, you bring other that play DK ?

Ofc not.

[west cove]

u had to roll fam

[tribal marlin]

You won't recruit 10 melee just for the sake of having 5 DK. You have a certain amount of melee player in roster, they need to adapt.

[rose violet]

the spec meta exists where you least expect it

[tribal marlin]

Just like healers and tanks

[fleet anchor]

But again, I don't really see too much reason to be negative

[west cove]

yeah i dont get the mentality of rog staying always as a rog and not contributing

[fleet anchor]

With 9.0.5 tuning, Assassination was a top tier spec

[thorny pond]

A well tuned sin rogue is one of the most desirable melee to have

[fleet anchor]

Assassination would have 100% been brought to WF comp on Sire with 9.0.5 tuning lol
It's arguably the best or top-2 spec in the game at that fight

[tribal marlin]

It's completely dependant on what are your options.

[oak sky]

Top 3 after aff and shadow right?

[tribal marlin]

A well tuned warrior (in Shadowlands) will be better.

[fleet anchor]

I dunno if Aff is actually better than Assassination on Sire tbh

Maybe close

[oak sky]

I dunno either i was just going by damage

[tribal marlin]

Sire is a a very good Assa encounter tho

[thorny pond]

Nope. We have the kit for cleave and single target without talents. We can double down on either. High mobility and survivability are also Dwight after

If they are tuned well or even decent you want one

[oak sky]

I mean with zoldyck and blindside assassination execute is one of the best in the game

[thorny pond]

There’s very very few encounters where sin just doesn’t flow with the design

[fleet anchor]

So mostly I'm just not quite as down in 9.1 as 9.0

I'm certainly disappointed they didn't address the raid utility thing like they implied they would

[oak sky]

I mean him saying that never meant that it was coming the next patch

[west cove]

that’s coming in next exp

[fleet anchor]

But 9.0.5 and 9.1 have generally been kind to both Assassination and Sub tuning-wise so I think we are likely to be in a workable place

[gusty mirage]

maybe our giga damage is in place until they figure out wtf they're doing with rogue utility

[tribal marlin]

I don't see any reason why you would absolutely bring a Rogue into your composition.

[oak sky]

It could be 9.1.5, 9.2 or beyond

[tribal marlin]

There are priorities.

I mean, you have a Rogue it's well tuned it's a good player. It's your friend.

Yes ok

[gusty mirage]

what if its well tuned, a good player, but not my friend? am i allowed to bring them then?

[void pecan]

No

[thorny pond]

You are completely looking at this from the perspective of excel sheets.

[void pecan]

Ban.

[hearty dock]

No, gkick

[tribal marlin]

But spec wise, there is nothing that force you to bring a rogue, unless it's a cloak cheesing thing.

[fleet anchor]

Like 9.0 was probably worse for Rogue than Nya (prog). But 9.0.5/9.1 tuning? I think honestly way better off than both CN and Nyalotha.

[gusty mirage]

mmkay got it

[fleet anchor]

Big consistent issue is the lack of melee spots in general

[oak sky]

I know we're tuned plenty well enough for sod but i still hope to see some representation in rwf :)

[tribal marlin]

Yes ofc but as I said it's not something that can be easily changed.

[gusty mirage]

we'll see some rogue play in rwf me thinks

[tribal marlin]

Yes, maybe

[oak sky]

Yeah im hoping we see 1 in competitive guilds

[tribal marlin]

because it does a lot of damage and have a good damage pattern.

But again, if you don't need that additionnal damage, why would you ?

[thorny pond]

Other than the 9.0 outlier rogues have been desired since they lost raid utility

[oak sky]

Bad gear means once you fill your utility you just take damage no?

[thorny pond]

We haven’t always been top of charts

But Trill saw Nyalotha

[west cove]

did ion get ce btw

[oak sky]

So on any fight where you dont need like 5 amzs or something stupid it shouldnt be too hard to justify bringing a single sub/sin if its basically the highest st melee

[thorny pond]

Aqt has been in every tier

[worthy moth]

guys

it is so nice to get stone

stoned

...to play outlaw, thats the only way to play it without get bored

see you guys next year.

[oak sky]

I think ion did get ce

[odd hazel]

so

i got over to the area in korthia that you cant get to

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I mean I think this was super borderline. He was brought because he's a good player. Rogues weren't doing anything very special in prog in Nya either tbh. 😦

[oak sky]

Well his other picks are warr dh and ww mostly right?

[tribal marlin]

And Rogue was extremely good on Nzoth

[oak sky]

Were they all bad?

[fleet anchor]

But that's also why I think RWF is kinda degenerate like that

Normal guilds don't really operate that way, even in the top-50 range

[tribal marlin]

Both the damage pattern, the immunity and the survivability

[oak sky]

Oh yeah of course

[fleet anchor]

You bring your best players on their best toon barring anything insane

[worthy moth]

the second soulbind will be better for m+

[oak sky]

I just think like a lot of other people some of us like seeing our class at the top

[fleet anchor]

Yeah ofc always good to see it

Was definitely sad not seeing a Rogue in the race

[safe barn]

Guys

262 is rank 6 leggo?

[west cove]

ye

[fleet anchor]

But I'm not gonna fotm reroll either 😛

[oak sky]

Of course not

[tribal marlin]

In the top 50 to "last to kill pre-nerf" you really shot yourself in the feet going with "what you have", especially if you are missing key spec in your raid.

Post-nerf it's another story

[oak sky]

If i was good enough for rwf i would be willing to reroll even staying a rogue main, but since im not there im ride or die with this class

[safe barn]

Can the rwf be the reason obedience gets nerfed?

[tribal marlin]

No

[hollow river]

Won’t have all soulbinds nor full mythic gear

[odd hazel]

Im in the vault of secrets ;-;

[hollow river]

Heroic tuning maybe depending on if it’s broken but it doesn’t seem that broken

[rose violet]

not available during heroic week

so...

[hollow river]

This true

[tribal marlin]

Lemme give you an example : Sire Denathrius.

[hollow river]

I heard echo already has obedience rogues stacked

So

[fleet anchor]

I mean last tier they did a tuning pass about 2 weeks after RWF ended

But it was mostly buffs

[tribal marlin]

In Sire Denathrius phase 3, if you don't have the good mobility cooldown, you die to 2nd massacre.

Maybe you get BoP by your Holy pala.

[arctic hare]

Rogues are fine in that

[oak sky]

Stacked

[tribal marlin]

But he only have one

[oak sky]

No way

[fleet anchor]

I'm sure they have options prepped

[arctic hare]

Right

[fleet anchor]

WF guilds have every option prepped though lol

[tribal marlin]

would you bring 2 guy that will die to this ?

[arctic hare]

Shadowstep, dash, etc.

[oak sky]

If you stack multiple rogues you need a monk

[thorny pond]

They recruited me that’s why

[oak sky]

And warrior already

[leaden turret]

maybe monk tank

[tribal marlin]

Yes sure Rogue can step, but Feral cannot

they die to this

[hollow river]

Give me week 1 48 renown Chinese secrets

[red plaza]

!cloak

[loud trench]

did the DS prepull with vanish get hotfixed

[oak sky]

I know havoc is good so maybe they run that anyway

[loud trench]

for the damage increase

[arctic hare]

Actually, they kinda can miki

[leaden turret]

feral has a "step", called wild charge

[loud trench]

not showing on my buffs

[tribal marlin]

it doesn't work.

[arctic hare]

If they take wild charge, and since tanks will be moving out of it, the boss can follow

[tribal marlin]

you need an immunity or a teleport.

[arctic hare]

How does it NOT work? Its basically a shadowstep

[thorny pond]

Roll NF secrit buffs incoming. My uncle works for Nintendo and he told me good stonks

[oak sky]

[arctic hare]

Then boomies are screwed too, but they weren’t

[tribal marlin]

Boomies don't go down.

[red plaza]

What’s the command to check immunities and anybody know if it’s updated for 9.1 yet?

[arctic hare]

Why not?

[leaden turret]

what did your aunt at Sega say though?

[oak sky]

Boomies take gate

[fleet anchor]

But anyway @tribal marlin I'm not really disagreeing with you in principle, but I would just say... there were still 9 Rogues in the first 20 Sire kills. Despite having maybe their worst tier meta tuning-wise...maybe ever?
And 9.0.5 and 9.1 have really only been straight large buffs for both Assassination and Sub.
So I can't see how it's worse this tier than CN. It can only really be better imo, even without Obedience.

[arctic hare]

Then feral take gate

[oak sky]

Feral is downstairs

Because its melee

[tribal marlin]

Maybe you can bring ranged down, but you definitely cannot bring melee up.

[oak sky]

Bingo

[indigo mulch]

The fact that DK's arent as strong as they were in 9.0 and 9.0.5 already gives rogues a much better chance to get into raid.

[oak sky]

The feral would kill a tank

[fleet anchor]

DKs also got pretty heavily "balanced" in 9.1 so it opens up more options

[oak sky]

I feel like you could give up a dk right now and just not have amz

[faint harness]

Other specs also got large buffs tho

[oak sky]

But its probably better to have at least 1

[arctic hare]

That pull issss beautiful

[tribal marlin]

I mean yeah and guess what we have a Feral. But you couldn't play CN with 4 rogues as melee. Or with 4 Ferals. That's just what I mean.

[fleet anchor]

Warrior got buffed, but I think they are not staying exactly how they are atm.

[faint harness]

Mainly through cov legendaries that might be nerfed. But fury is literally looking like an insane spec atm

[arctic hare]

Oh boy

[fleet anchor]

Fury probably the most likely target for the nerfbat atm

[tribal marlin]

If you force your guild to bring you, as a Rogue, into a raid when they already struggle to find a competent Warrior or DH or DK

[fleet anchor]

Of any spec in the game

[arctic hare]

Why have a guild that you would need to force them to be in raid?

[indigo mulch]

To be fair, there is nothing really wrong with rogue dps. Its top melee dps on ST assassination have strong cleave.

[fleet anchor]

You never wanna be the biggest outlier on Heroic week 🤣

[oak sky]

I mean warrior is necessary

[thorny pond]

Unless your survival then it doesn’t matter

[faint harness]

There is nothing wrong with rogues dps, but its not op or nerf worthy either

[oak sky]

So they could kill fury and then they just take prot which is already tuned well

[arctic hare]

True

[faint harness]

We have 0 raid utility

[west cove]

if they stay like this they’d be necessary to stack for race

[faint harness]

We need some edge somewhere

[tribal marlin]

I mean in a situation where you play in a guild that doesn't bench more people that they bring in.

[west cove]

hopefully they’ll get gutted

[fleet anchor]

Prot is arguably the strongest tank atm which does open up a Battle Shout spot, but Vengeance is kinda meh and that closes a melee spot back 😛

[arctic hare]

Ahhh okay

[indigo mulch]

In comparisson to our other leggos obe 100% is overtuned. But thats only if you look at rogues legendarys.

[faint harness]

Altho cloak is looking good in 9.1 based on ptr testing

[oak sky]

Havoc is good anyway with current tuning tho

[fleet anchor]

WW are not a lock to bring if a guild were to run Vengeance+Warrior tanks because Monk buff is the weakest raid buff by a significant amount (even for melee specs)

[arctic hare]

Sadge

[oak sky]

If enough melee are tuned well then ww/brm would be valued though

[fleet anchor]

Monk buff is only like 2% for us

[indigo mulch]

WW's AoE is really nutty though. They lack ST but they bring a raidbuff and their aoe damage is insane.

[faint harness]

If fury is this strong monk buff could be good

[fleet anchor]

Monk buff is only like 0.5% for Ret

[west cove]

no aoe in sod

[fleet anchor]

0% for DH

Because of how it works

[oak sky]

Ww seems good enough to be brought in some situations

[fleet anchor]

Monk buff literally doesn't matter for Ret and DH at all

[oak sky]

Is ret tuned well?

[fleet anchor]

Quite strong atm

[oak sky]

At what tho

[west cove]

if fury is nuts monk replaces rog xd

[fleet anchor]

It's likely guilds will be running a Ret

[oak sky]

Thats cool

[fleet anchor]

Their DPS is very high and they bring BoP

[oak sky]

Idk how ret works ive never leveled pally

Not very interested in it tbh

[kind talon]

Wait

Dh does no physical?

[fleet anchor]

DH and Monk buffs will always overlap and use the "largest" vulnerability for magic-based melee attacks. So it doesn't matter which one you have. They don't stack.

[kind talon]

Not even with autos?

[indigo mulch]

Is there any sims on ret, cause im really curious to see how ret ST is compared to sin/sub

[fleet anchor]

Even for Assassination Monk buff isn't that huge if you already have DH buff

[oak sky]

I know ret had good burst aoe but i didnt know if their st was too good

[kind talon]

Their st is amazing

Wait @fleet anchor how does it work for auto attack

[idle shard]

nadija triple potency is bis for M+ right?

[kind talon]

Isn’t that pure phys or no

[fleet anchor]

It does work fine for AA but AA is only like 12%

[kind talon]

O

[fleet anchor]

5% of 12% is a pretty small number

Even for Assassination, like almost 50% of our damage is magic

[oak sky]

Noted

[kind talon]

Ya

[hollow river]

Later on in in 9.1 yeah. Right now idk sim yourself

[kind talon]

But like

What about the other %

[fleet anchor]

So we only get like 2.2-2.5% from WW buff

[kind talon]

It still matters tho

[fleet anchor]

Sure but you're talking about 2-3%

[kind talon]

Ya

[fleet anchor]

On a couple melee

[indigo mulch]

If you have to sit a raidbuff, WW monk is most def the raidbuff you sit out.

[fleet anchor]

DH buff is 4-5% on like

[kind talon]

Oh ya

[fleet anchor]

literally the entire raid

[kind talon]

For sure

But u shouldn’t sit a raidbuff

Warriors shout is better than monk

[hollow river]

Monk buff ain’t gonna be the reason you don’t get CE

[fleet anchor]

Warrior buff is straight 5% to all melee+Hunters

[indigo mulch]

Warr shout is insanely good since it scales with AP and not with physical damage.

[kind talon]

Yep

[indigo mulch]

If you compare it to WW buff atleast.

[fleet anchor]

Warrior buff can only ever be better than WW buff

[kind talon]

U can say that about a lot of things

It’s a terrible argument

[oak sky]

Shout priest mage and lock and dh always have to be taken for sure

[fleet anchor]

All I'm saying about that

[hollow river]

If you can’t get a GOOD MONK

[kind talon]

But yeah monk buff is the least impactful

[fleet anchor]

Is that WW isn't a lock for comp if not using a Monk tank

[west cove]

hunter’s damage profile favors dh over monk for example?

[hollow river]

then no point bringing buff

[fleet anchor]

It's quite possible having a WW is still a RDPS loss

[kind talon]

I mean sure

U can easily just

[fleet anchor]

Warrior/DH slots are like almost always a DPS gain

[kind talon]

Calculate what % of ur raid is physical damage

[crisp steppe]

yes u can

[indigo mulch]

You don't feel the loss of a monk buff to the raid tbh. And if you run 5 healers at any point mistweaver isent that bad actually. They also give the raidbuff since they fistweave.

[crisp steppe]

ww monk owns on like 5t aoe but ST kinda lacking

[tribal marlin]

I get your point and you are right. We do enough damage, even with Obedience. A rogue will not be a "weight" we're still doing very good damage. BUT

[kind talon]

And then see how much impact the buff will have

[oak sky]

Im pretty sure rwf guulds have analytics

Guilds

[hollow escarp]

yeah, like none even knew that numbing poison works on bosses

[crisp steppe]

xd

fat shark yes

GAMERS

[fleet anchor]

RIP

[crisp steppe]

brought the sub rogue

[fleet anchor]

I tried telling people 😦

[crisp steppe]

numbing raid utility gang

[fleet anchor]

Not only Numbing working on bosses

[west cove]

whats with this pepes with shiny glasses btw

[oak sky]

Numbing and a dispel

[hollow escarp]

would be funny if he played crippling

[tribal marlin]

There are some classes : Mage, Warlock, Rogues, Hunter namely, that only do damage.
Mage and Warlock are mandatory. Rogue and Hunter are not.

[fleet anchor]

But people didn't even know it stacked with Warlock curse

[crisp steppe]

@hollow escarp didnt see it might be possible

[fleet anchor]

Although as a note

Warlock Curse and Numbing use the same debuff type now in 9.1

So they may not stack now

I need to test

[crisp steppe]

cool

[hollow escarp]

I think it's fine if we don't test

keep it a secret

[oak sky]

No

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I agree with you on this point for sure.

[hollow escarp]

everybody knows they stack now

[oak sky]

If it doesnt stack we get real util sooner

[hollow river]

Warlocks never cast that shit anyway

[fleet anchor]

lol

[hollow escarp]

yeah, it's a gcd

every 2 min

[indigo mulch]

There is spots for rogues in the melee team though. I don't know why people seam to think they would not have a spot. What would you bring instead of that if you run 5 melee?

[hollow escarp]

imagine the dps loss

[fleet anchor]

Imagine wasting a global to keep your tanks from dying

[hollow escarp]

[crisp steppe]

@indigo mulch just depends on tuning

[hollow river]

Warlocks and warriors man

[oak sky]

It definitely seems likely that rogue can get 1 spot

[hollow river]

Zugzug greed

[lofty monolith]

When the legendary for Venth comes out, will venth be by far the best for ST or will it still be close as the pin states?

[hollow river]

Yea

Pins

[tribal marlin]

Basically more raid cooldown. (War/Dh/DK)

[fleet anchor]

Here I am playing Warlock on BCC and get asked to run Curse of Weakness on Nightbane and I'm like

[crisp steppe]

if the boss hits giga hard then numbing is cool. if the rogue specs blast boss damage its cool (think assa on sire).

[hollow escarp]

need to see the sylvanas daggers in sims as well

[fleet anchor]

Yes hopefully will have something tested with that in the next day or two

[faint harness]

They dont seem insane anymore

[fleet anchor]

Seems like we figured out the fist weapon behavior today

That should be in tonight I think

[faint harness]

50% of the dmg they did in the first iteration

[west cove]

we will never see a sylvanas dagger drop anyways

[hollow escarp]

the 233 daggers from normal are a dps loss currently on droptimizer from my 226

[fleet anchor]

??

[faint harness]

Ye cus thats without an effect

[oak sky]

More work for whispyr and koji to get the daggers in

[indigo mulch]

DH cd is 4min, WAR shout is okayish but they lack the ST, so unless its a cleave/aoe heavy fight i don't see the point in bringing them over a rogue. DK? I don't really know about DK's anymore.

[hollow escarp]

exactly

[fleet anchor]

Why would it be a DPS loss with 7 ilevels?

[kind talon]

????

[fleet anchor]

Even without the effect

[hollow escarp]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cLdxzKhQBnn1pMeEgusLQU

[west cove]

secondary fuck up maybe

[faint harness]

You lose like 150 secondaries

[tribal marlin]

Oh man you are really underestimating the power of Raid CD such as Shout, Darkness or AMZ (rip amz tho)

[faint harness]

Or some shit

[steel bane]

no stats kinda sucks

[oak sky]

The effect outweighs secondaries once its implemented tho

[hollow escarp]

it should

[fleet anchor]

I can't really see how that beats MH dps for 7 ilevels but I dunno

[faint harness]

Not on 1 stack

[hollow escarp]

I hope

[west cove]

probz

[faint harness]

I think

1 stack daggers is quite awful dmg

[tribal marlin]

You can see it this way : If you don't have a raid CD at this moment of the encounter : you wipe. And basically never kill the boss until you get 30% more HP and their damage get nerfed.

[faint harness]

But ramps quite nicely

[oak sky]

1 dagger would have secondaries if you only have 1 with the effect tho

[kind talon]

It’s like 3 wdps

So like

60 dps or something?

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but a bit crazy how 226 vs 233 weapon ilvl is so low

just because of lack of secondaries

[west cove]

wish it stayed garbo

[indigo mulch]

I don't, i'm a raidleader myself. I know exactly how good they are. Darkness is good, but darkness is really only good if there is small damage that rapidly comes at you. warrior shout is okayish but i don't really feel like its a great raid cooldown i don't. Its okay but its not amazing.

[oak sky]

Arent most raid cds situationally good

[kind talon]

???????

[oak sky]

Or even situationally op

[faint harness]

Warrior shout is only good if it makes you survive a 1 shot

[tribal marlin]

Ok then look at it this way : Can you go in Mythic Prog without any Darkness, Shout or AMZ ?

[hollow escarp]

blood price

[kind talon]

Warrior shout is just good

[faint harness]

The way it works is quite trash

[oak sky]

Like if it allows you to do something thats otherwise impossible is that not strong?

[faint harness]

Borrowed hp

[fleet anchor]

Well Darkness was historically good because of the insane Spirit Link Totem interaction

[indigo mulch]

We did Sire without darkness, 1 amz and 1 shout.

[faint harness]

Extremely situational

[indigo mulch]

Pre-nerf.

[tribal marlin]

Darkness still extremely good in damage pattern that rapidely ticking.

[faint harness]

If it doesnt save you from 1 shot it basically had no use except feeling safe

[tribal marlin]

like dots from plaguefall last boss

[faint harness]

Since you lose all the hp it gave

[kind talon]

Ya

True

It’s still quite strong for like

[indigo mulch]

Yes, i agree darkness is really good for rapid small ticks. Like Dancing feaver. Its insane there, but darkness is also like 8y big so its not like a priest bubble.

[kind talon]

Sire p1

Sire p2

Sire p3

[faint harness]

Ye because the lift up mechanic is trash

So its just a safeguard

[indigo mulch]

And this is another reason why darkness would be good.

[kind talon]

True

[balmy condor]

How about instead of raid utility, just keep your Hp above 0 and Lower the hp of the boss to 0

[faint harness]

And in p2 i dont see any good shout use

[kind talon]

Kekw

[oak sky]

Whispyr spitting

[indigo mulch]

As i said, i would never bench a rogue over a warrior on a fight where ST actually matters.

[kind talon]

Fair enough

[hollow escarp]

p2 had no scary damage

[kind talon]

It was good on some prog I did with like

[oak sky]

Just have cheat death and good execute

[faint harness]

Its really only because of blood price

[hollow escarp]

outside of impale on low targets

[balmy condor]

We’re also so far off topic at this point

[kind talon]

Marjoram hymn or we

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

Nathrian*

[indigo mulch]

Are we? D: We're discussing raid cds and rogues viability? :c Is that to far out daddy @balmy condor

[tribal marlin]

Now we are in a situation where these CDs are mandatory at some specific key moment. If you have 2 of theim, they are lock to these key choke moment. If you have 4 of theim, you have the opportunity to recover from fails using additionnals

[oak sky]

This chat definitely went off the rails i liked how it started

[balmy condor]

I mean at this point it’s just bitching about AMZ and darkness

[dry void]

what is sin bug exactly

[faint harness]

Cloak is going to be better in 9.1, i have a feeling

[balmy condor]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[kind talon]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[kind talon]

LOL

[hollow escarp]

[dry void]

i see

[faint harness]

Cloak = utility

When its good

[kind talon]

Yes

Inerva

Poggers

[faint harness]

Like saying ur entire raid from a big ass frozen meteor on KT

Saving

[tribal marlin]

doesn't even save you from sire phase 3 shadow deadly damage ...

[hollow escarp]

so that's why I did low damage today? because of the bug

[kind talon]

Yes

[tribal marlin]

They could at least stop nerfing cloack tier after tier

again and again

[faint harness]

Ye it was fucked in 9.0

It actually works on a lot of stuff in 9.1

At least during testing

[indigo mulch]

Wait what? D: When did this show up? D: Or has it been around all along? O.o

[tribal marlin]

yeah you can soak a tank mechanic with it

iirc

was OP

[faint harness]

You can immune stuff on kt

[tribal marlin]

I don't remember the name of the boss

[faint harness]

You can avoid chain debuff on garrosh

[civic trellis]

A few days ago.

[faint harness]

You can ignore the beam on the eye

But you can also step that so idk how much it matters

[civic trellis]

But no idea when did get broken

[tribal marlin]

Door of Shadow

[indigo mulch]

Oh, so its actually a 9.1 bug? D: Does sim reflect that?

[tribal marlin]

[hollow escarp]

it shouldn't

[indigo mulch]

Cheerios.

[sand plume]

with the increases to renown for campaign quests, anyone know when renown level I should start at?

[faint harness]

Lots of ways tbh

I really hope you can precloak some mechanics on fatescribe, never got to test it

[tribal marlin]

Rogue when played well is a very good melee class definitely. But idk man

[civic trellis]

Yeah.

[tribal marlin]

this expansion they just smoked too much with others, that already had some raid utility

Like Warriors used to be extremely squishy

[civic trellis]

They changed dp implementation iirc

[tribal marlin]

Like today it's one of the strongest spec in the game

[hollow escarp]

for real?

[faint harness]

Warriors has a lot of good shit

Spell reflect seems busted in some places

[civic trellis]

Warriors diserve to be a strong spec, imo

[tribal marlin]

they just buffed their survivability so much that they don't shy before rogue's survi anymore

[indigo mulch]

Rogues are still much tankier than warriors though

[tribal marlin]

I really don't think so

SR is really busted

[civic trellis]

Nah

[indigo mulch]

Cheat death is just to strong if you ask me.

[faint harness]

The new healing conduit + snd healing + leeching/sub healing

[tribal marlin]

At least obediance give a really nice kick of tankiness as well with versa

[faint harness]

Ur a fuckin tank

[civic trellis]

Cheat death is just too op

:D

[faint harness]

On certain fights

It can also do fuckall

[indigo mulch]

I mean Warriors get oneshot rogues dosent. That itself makes rogues more tanky. (not on all the mechanics obv.) but on most.

[winged basin]

hey do I need to 4 star both floors of torg to unlock layer 10 next week

[indigo mulch]

And if you REALLY need to soak shit, feint is pretty damn good.

[winged basin]

or just one

[tribal marlin]

How many mechanics you "enjoy soaking once every 2mn" a warrior can actually Spell Reflect every time ?

A lot 🙂

[civic trellis]

Well he cant spell reflect aoe things, can he?

[indigo mulch]

SP only works on targeted abilitys.

[tribal marlin]

How many mechanics see Cloak and AMS on the same page ? A damn lot

[indigo mulch]

SR*

[civic trellis]

E.g sire p3 soaks

[faint harness]

Spell reflect working on the knockback on P3 sire but cloak not is straight bullshit

[winged basin]

cloak works on knockback?

unless mythic is different

[faint harness]

No

[civic trellis]

It doesnt

[tribal marlin]

And whenever a mechanic is actually only being immune with Cloak, you can bet it will trivialize the fight if you can immune it (so never going to happen again), or it's somehow not that relevant.

[indigo mulch]

SR isent really survival in raids if you ask me, its more of a (something so i don't have to run out thing) rather than some form of defensive.

In m+ it is though

[winged basin]

wat, i stg I cloak it lmfao, must be thinking of something else.

anyways

torg layer 10, need 1 4 star or 2

[civic trellis]

It doesnt in mythic

[faint harness]

Doesnt SR also reduce magic dmg taken

Or was that old version

[tribal marlin]

20% yes

it's basically feint. but only on magic damage

but also work on dots and stufff like this

It's straight up a very good defensive, the cheesing aspect of it is full bonus, and it is really OP on certain mechanics

[indigo mulch]

Like i said before, i feel like SR is more of a thing to not have to run out and lose uptime on the boss rather than "oh shit dis will save my life"

Sure on some fights its great. Like Spell reflecting those adds on Inerva. Its great for that.

[cold trail]

Seen many top tier players, who raid for world ~10 guilds, that haven't yet made the venthyr change. Should I really go for it and farm renown if i want to focus on raiding, or am I going to be fine staying necro?

[winged basin]

yes.

the answer is just yes

[balmy condor]

you also see many top tier players who have stuck with venthyr and never swapped to necro to begin with

[winged basin]

nobody really knows, all we know is venthyr is better until its not

[indigo mulch]

[winged basin]

trust in the process

there are a lot more busted leggos to fix then just ours, I imagine we see very little change

[thorny pond]

6ers still haven't made conference finals since the process

[leaden turret]

believe in obedience and guy

[winged basin]

BUT CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL MY DUMBASS IF I HAVE TO 4 STAR BOTH LAYERS OF TORG

TO UNLOCK LAYER 10 NEXT WEEK LOL

[leaden turret]

dont you just have to clear 9?

like always?

[oak sky]

[indigo mulch]

I swapped back to venthyr last week, but i want to try it because obe with sub looks fun 😦 And necro isent much fun with sub 😦

[balmy condor]

idk if the stars matter at all

[leaden turret]

we pray

[thorny pond]

you're a star and you matter

[quartz willow]

U need 4 stars to unlock

[balmy condor]

damn who asked tho

[shut garnet]

thing is too, there wont be any data on obedience rogues until mythic week so data wise it should defo sneak past hc tuning

[tribal marlin]

Well that's already 2 fight in a single raid where you litterally cheese important mechanics. And there are more

[sand plume]

with the increases to renown for campaign quests, anyone know when renown level I should start at?

[balmy condor]

@thorny pond kidding

[oak sky]

Its probably just 1 4 star

[shut garnet]

obviously theyre not dumb theyll have their own internal sims or w.e maybe but yea

venthyr stonks

[oak sky]

And also account wide unlock i assume?

[leaden turret]

I know he woke up and chose violence

[thorny pond]

Whisp is cool

[kind talon]

[tribal marlin]

It's not only the simdps

[balmy condor]

[tribal marlin]

The damage pattern is good as well

[thorny pond]

I don't simp but I just ate so I'm less toxic

[balmy condor]

I'm eating right now

that ass

👀

[thorny pond]

damn fan

[oak sky]

Say the word downtime and see where it gets you

[thorny pond]

That's where I keep my hichews

[leaden turret]

didnt see that coming

[kind talon]

👀

Downtime

[oak sky]

[kind talon]

I’m minimizing my hichew downtime

[oak sky]

You have enough for the whole class?

[leaden turret]

AYO it's that mf clown again

[kind talon]

Grape is goated

Zaraki kun

Okaeri:3

@balmy condor r u actually etating

or were u memeing

[west cove]

u guys min max rift keys or nah

[balmy condor]

yes

[kind talon]

wot

eat?

[thorny pond]

nani?

[tribal marlin]

of course !

[kind talon]

sheeeeesh

nani?

[leaden turret]

yours

[kind talon]

sheeesh

douzo

omatase

[oak sky]

No hablo

[balmy condor]

I take a bite of my bread

[tribal marlin]

Nothing to minmax tho, just start with Yorik, grab the 4 chests then head to the rare in Beastwarren

[leaden turret]

me neither, I just watched filthy frank

[balmy condor]

to find you guys breaking like 3 rules

[kind talon]

o?

english only?

[leaden turret]

oh

[kind talon]

mb i can delet

[leaden turret]

well, me delet aswell

[thorny pond]

#off-topic ?

[balmy condor]

I mean you don't gotta delete

just stay on topic

[west cove]

are they always up tho? havent got lucky with key drops

[leaden turret]

I mean that most def improves your damage output as sin, come on

jk, yeah my bad

[kind talon]

thats hard for me

my brain work bad

[tribal marlin]

Yorik seems to respawn instantly, but the rare in the Maw isn't always here. Only one (the one in Beastwaren) of the 3 Rift rare in the Maw give Cataloged Research.

[kind talon]

why is it Cataloged

like

the word is catalogued

did they spell it wrong to be cool?

or is the dev behind the system notsmart?

[tribal marlin]

idk I'm not native english

[hollow river]

are you eu

[kind talon]

no i mean

they spell it wrong

but why

[fluid glade]

cataloged is correct

[hollow river]

Catalogue and catalog are both acceptable spellings.

[kind talon]

the past tense is catalogued

[hollow river]

Catalog is most popular in American English. Catalogue is the most common form in other parts of the world.

No

[fluid glade]

no its like color and colour

[kind talon]

oh

ur right

[fluid glade]

just regional shit

[kind talon]

nvm

lol

[hollow river]

xD

[wooden knot]

I believe as a past-tense verb it does get the u

[kind talon]

anyways

[wooden knot]

catalog -> catalogued

(sorry, I'm a librarian so that word comes up a lot)

[hollow river]

not in NA (majority of the time)

[kind talon]

why are my giga parses so low now

90s from like 1-2 months ago are like

60-70 rn

speedclearing strats ?

[hollow river]

and PI funnellers etc

the more time passes, the higher everyone's DPS gets as they optimize gear and parsing strats

[leaden turret]

yeah there are insane parses, especially chinese ones. There are like Affliction parses with like 20 PIs

[hollow river]

kinda stupid tbh

[oak sky]

Have a geared enhance just for parses tbh

[hollow river]

i think they should have PI on target with CD like lust tbh

1 PI per person per fight

[tribal marlin]

no please stop with PI

if you are mad because of Warcraftlog ranking system, do your own ranking system

but please, leave PI where it is.

[hollow river]

why lol

[oak sky]

I think shadow pi should have a passive effect that it can only be used on self or something

[tribal marlin]

Because the probleme has nothing to do with PI or game mechanics. It's only about how people chose to rank each other regarding DPS.

[gentle elbow]

having a hard time finding concrete info anywhere, what should i craft first for raiding focused assa

[hollow river]

if you say so

[oak sky]

I think holy and disc pi choice is actually cool

But on shadow its just shit

[hollow river]

give everyone the chance to get it tbh

[kind talon]

doesnt shadow just pi self normally

??

[oak sky]

If it was tuned worse it wouldnt

[hollow river]

depends how fast you clearing heroic/mythic

[tribal marlin]

Why would you change the gameplay base on a subjective, third-party, ranking systeme ????

I mean please

[hollow river]

the go to atm is Doomblade on cloak but on week 3 you craft Obedience ( venthyr leggo ) on cloak

check the pins

[kind talon]

what

who said that miki

im looking back but i dont see anyone saying that

[tribal marlin]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/power-infusion-takes-away-a-lot-of-the-fun-in-raiding/251061

this dude for example

[hoary fulcrum]

Chances of obedience getting nerfed? What do we think

[hollow river]

dude

we are not Blizzard we do not know

Miki

[oak sky]

Yeah no pi is fine rn tho

[hollow river]

funelling pi on 1 person is just shit gamer

[leaden turret]

if the sun and moon align at a perfect angle then about 3 in 2

[hollow river]

let 2-4 diff people get it a fight

[tribal marlin]

I see no issue funneling PI on one target, if it's the best way to use the spell in term of raid dps.

[hollow river]

kinda shit to watch 1 person to top dps every fight because they're the sole pi target

[kind talon]

?

[tribal marlin]

Or if it's the best way to deal with a specific mechanic.

[kind talon]

its not

rly

ever

[tribal marlin]

Might be.

[kind talon]

using PI on one raid target

[hollow river]

is stupid

[kind talon]

if u have 3 or 4 pis

[oak sky]

Dont you mostlt pi different targets in different windows

[frosty cedar]

use PI on xymox

[hollow river]

yes

[frosty cedar]

this is the best way

[hollow river]

but too many guilds let 1 dpswhore get it on CD

[kind talon]

u usually just

pi during dps cds

for most classes

like its strong with hunter 2min cd

sin 2 min

spriest itself

combustion is like 1 min

[oak sky]

Unholy army

[kind talon]

udk is not rly 2 min but

always lines up with lust

[grim hornet]

Which leggo until we can use obedience? Still Doomblade?

[kind talon]

yes

[tribal marlin]

I mean, I don't know what is the best way to use PI. But why would you prevent people (by changing game mechanics) from funneling PIs ?

[kind talon]

no one said that

[tribal marlin]

A lot of people say that dude.

[kind talon]

except for the stupid opst u linked

but like

everyone disagrees with im

him*

[tribal marlin]

Some even want PI to be deleted.

[kind talon]

lol

i mean

personally i think ppl just

dont understand how to use it optimally

and its dumbo

[tribal marlin]

If people want to use it incorrectly to boost their ego well be it.

All I say is that, PI should not be changed.

[kind talon]

Yeah

At the same time

Pws leaves a debuff right

[oak sky]

I mean isnt that the whole reason why logs show external buffs

[kind talon]

PI could do that too i guess

[oak sky]

Nkw

Now

[kind talon]

Ya

[tribal marlin]

I mean why not, but what would be the goal of this change ?

[kind talon]

Ppl still want separate categories

[kind talon]

I mean

Nothing rly

[tribal marlin]

Because if the goal is to please whinners about log padders, it's a wrong reason from changing it.

[kind talon]

Just dumbs down the game and correct usage