assassination

[shut garnet]

lol

[gloomy knoll]

then sub sucks mad balls

3 target bonanza

[echo geyser]

but yeah even if u play outlaw its not too bad cause wont be doing push

u need like +20 max?

or 17

[shut garnet]

+24 if u dont wanna touch tyr at all

but yea like +17 forti means u need like a 10 or something on tyr dratnos made some maths vid earlier idk

[modern heart]

just to clarify, obedience tooltip is wrong ?

[lone wren]

So is venth now 100% the way to go or are we still waiting on more data?

[modern heart]

both work fine

[plucky epoch]

are they adding more catchup mechanics for renown with the new patch cause I still haven't switched yet from night fae last time i played in like february lol

[modern heart]

nvm after reading the whole ventyr ability it does make sense its just worded a bit weird

[hollow river]

yo how do i sim for diff covenant?

[inner temple]

heres to hoping obedience gets nerfed so i can feel better about myself

[hollow river]

nvm top gear works my bad

and lashing drops from sire.

is there a way to override the ilvl of gear in my bags using top gear?

[balmy condor]

You can add “,ilevel=x”

To the end of an item string

@hollow river guess I necro’d a bit, have a ping :P

[hybrid cosmos]

what is meant by "Change: Obedience vers persists now"? like it doesnt fall off?

[hollow river]

in advanced?

[hasty crater]

@balmy condor U think there is any chance that they will nerf obedience legendary at mythic raid release ? I already see myself going venthyr for no reason lmao

[gloomy knoll]

hopefully not

be happy

you do more damage

don't ask for nerfs lmao

[nova flax]

are you raiding at the hall of fame level?

[hollow river]

on PTR it used to stop at 12 stacks

[humble ginkgo]

its always possible

anything can happen

[nova flax]

if not play whatever cov u want

[humble ginkgo]

[hasty crater]

I mean im not asking for them, i just see that obedience is 500 dps above the rest which is not something they want i imagine

[viscid spear]

😺

[hollow river]

or it stacks disappeared after 12 seconds idr

[nova flax]

personally i like venthyr because of the Party Herald title 🙂

[hollow river]

[gloomy knoll]

considering other specs are still doing good damage and we're not insanely broken

[viscid spear]

Does Kyrian and Necro have something similar? I knew about the Fun Gal/Guy title from the mushroom

[gloomy knoll]

probably fine

most specs have legendaries that are far better

than their other options

[nova flax]

Necro has Abominable. i dotn think kyrian has one

[gloomy knoll]

rogue was the outlier

having a bunch of shitty leggos lol

[echo geyser]

can u keep those titles?

[nova flax]

only as lnog as you are a part of the respective covenant

[echo geyser]

[nova flax]

so i cant use my fu nguy title since i swapped Venthyr

[viscid spear]

I lost Fun Gal when I went Venthyr

[echo geyser]

[nova flax]

and if i swap out of venthyr i wont be the party herald anymore

party herald is a hell of a grind too

[echo geyser]

fun guy gal sounds really good

[viscid spear]

Doesn't matter, been using Crazy Cat Lady since Mists

[woeful wigeon]

do we need to recraft it in 9.1 lego but can we buy the stuff already from ah but uncrafted untill 9.1 ?

[nova flax]

i was using azeroth's champion

[echo geyser]

guy makes more sense tho

[nova flax]

now its the party herald lmao

[gloomy knoll]

the only title worth using

is shadowblade

[viscid spear]

I just haven't found a title I like since Crazy Cat Lady.
Helps that I have 10 cats irl

[balmy condor]

They might

[echo geyser]

trying to be purple name i see

[balmy condor]

Works everywhere

[gloomy knoll]

no thanks lol

[hollow river]

ty

[gloomy knoll]

i just like hanging out i'll let whispyr tell people to stop arguing about downtime

[echo geyser]

The D-Word

[gloomy knoll]

it's the most bad ass rogue title tho

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/its-everyday-bro-gif-9314643

[gloomy knoll]

legion class halls go brrrrrrrrr

[viscid spear]

Any good Rogue was using the Kingslayer title during Legion

Whispyr making her way downtown

[serene hinge]

uh...how do i fix the "you are mounted" shadowstep bug?

[hollow river]

can i copy this line and just put off-hand so it sims both along with all my other possibilities?
main_hand=,id=184256,bonus_id=7188/6652/1518/6646

[balmy condor]

I don’t mean to kill your boner but in a fugly dude

[hollow river]

i'm assuming so

[balmy condor]

Yep

[hollow river]

❤️

[gusty mirage]

how dare you

[viscid spear]

Same

[gusty mirage]

There's only room for one fugly person here ladies and gents

and its me

[woeful wigeon]

hey can we craft the cloak now or wait untill 9.1 or and can we have like all the raw materials to craft it in back like now ?

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

gotta wait for 9.1

[gloomy knoll]

not even recrafting doomblade

that shit dead

[viscid spear]

This morning I was getting ready for work and looked in the mirror.
The mirror ducked.

[balmy condor]

9.1 have to get the mats to craft a rank 6

[echo geyser]

[gloomy knoll]

[gusty mirage]

Esra why must you hurt me this way

[gloomy knoll]

what u mean

obedience is pog

[limber lion]

You're about to be if you continue this trend.

[gloomy knoll]

it actually changes up the rotation

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

don't talk shit about my bff doomie

[echo geyser]

tbh i like that i can craft 1 lego for 3specs tbh

no need to recraft doom

[gloomy knoll]

i mean i'm spitting straight facts my guy

[viscid spear]

How pog?

[humble ginkgo]

[gusty mirage]

Esra its raining again, don't do this to me while I'm about to go swimming again

[woeful wigeon]

i mean can we have a raw rank 4 in backpack like now for 9.1

[gloomy knoll]

LOL

[balmy condor]

No

[mortal pike]

Anyone know what ilvl the new mega dungos loot is?

[balmy condor]

226

[gusty mirage]

@mortal pike 226 normal 233 hardmode

[gloomy knoll]

we finally get a leggo that actually changes up our rotation instead of just being a lame ass passive

big fuckin poggers dude

[viscid spear]

How hard is the new dungeon for rogue anyway?

[gloomy knoll]

everything has true sight

[humble ginkgo]

its unplayable

wait actually?

[gloomy knoll]

and shoots you if you come into melee range

with an ar-15

[humble ginkgo]

I was just joking lol

LMAOOO

[mortal pike]

Sounds like some good catch up loot 8^)

[gusty mirage]

Can't wait to test even more abilities for you potatoes

[gloomy knoll]

brrrap brrrap

nah i'm just memeing lol

[humble ginkgo]

bullets go through your screen

[viscid spear]

[humble ginkgo]

too far

[gloomy knoll]

xD

i mean rogue is just good in keys

in general

i wouldn't worry lol

[viscid spear]

Can theey True Sight through Smoke Bomb?

[gloomy knoll]

i was memeing

i don't know anything about the new dungeon lol

[viscid spear]

So was I,

We can't Smoke Bomb in a dungeon, silly

[oak sky]

Not yet

[hollow river]

i'm doing something wrong xD

[thorny pond]

Not ever

[thorny pond]

Your name should be mutilate. Backstab is sub

[hollow river]

hmmmmmmmm

but i thought all this time i was sin?

eviscerating my enemies

[thorny pond]

No, that's italian

[tidal gorge]

How could you let that go in the wrong direction?

[viscid spear]

It was from the selfie, and he kinda dead on the ground

[teal bloom]

Today I got 99% hungering destroyer heroic parse by getting 2 power infusions. Proceeded to delete my rogue because it's forever tainted 😦

[hollow river]

off_hand=,ilevel=220,id=178853,bonus_id=7395/7359/6652/1514/6646
ok think i got it

[gusty mirage]

embrace the heroin that is PI

welcome brother

[echo geyser]

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

Ilvl should go at the end

[gusty mirage]

dont forget the quotation marks

[balmy condor]

Quotations shouldn’t matter

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

I usually try to not use them

[hollow river]

it works like this in the menu

[balmy condor]

Or else it gets messy

[hollow river]

top gear menu

but if this is bad i will change to the end

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

easier to keep track of on the end

[hollow river]

true

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s just better practice to put it at the end, because sometimes you’ll have a bonus id that can change ilvl

[hollow river]

i'm just running some quick sims to see what i should upgrade

kk

[echo geyser]

bruh

u can do droptimizer?

[humble ginkgo]

yea true

[hollow river]

i can only run one dungeon at a time?

i'm trying to see different set ups

[echo geyser]

nope all

[hollow river]

with venthyr and necro

[hollow river]

nope

[humble ginkgo]

if you know what item

[echo geyser]

ah venthyr and necro

[humble ginkgo]

is what lvl and whatever you want to compare it with

you could do gear compare

[simple wadi]

Need premium to do all dungeons

[humble ginkgo]

and add the item like that

[simple wadi]

At once

[hollow river]

^^^^

[humble ginkgo]

man make raidbots free

[viscid spear]

I smell Communism

[hollow river]

i'm trying to see what'll do better for me in heroic week

[simple wadi]

I mean that’s a lot of work - I don’t mind paying

[hollow river]

with venthyr compared to necro

[balmy condor]

Raidbots servers don’t pay themselves

[echo geyser]

how many combinations do u get with baseline?

[balmy condor]

And he has to make UI’s and stuff

[hollow river]

lol

like 300k

iterations

[humble ginkgo]

ik im joking

[gusty mirage]

I imagine the bandwidth to keep raidbots functioning is insane

[humble ginkgo]

I bought premium for a while

like 3-4 months

[balmy condor]

Yuh ik, others might not

[humble ginkgo]

its like life changing

[balmy condor]

I had someone say that my sims are only faster because my computer was better

[humble ginkgo]

being able to run sims constantly

[balmy condor]

And I’m like

But

It’s servers

[humble ginkgo]

you shoulda said yea thats true

buy a new pc and you will be able to sim more

[median aurora]

raidbots is lit, dont blame a fella for making a fantastic tool and website to enable players ease of use for the way blizzard has been designing gear / the randomization in the last few xpacs

[humble ginkgo]

u dont got enough ram bro 💯

[hollow river]

thx for the help @balmy condor

[viscid spear]

"But I play on Mac"

[balmy condor]

Bro when I sim raidbots on my android

Shits hella fast

But my computer

[hollow river]

o.O

[balmy condor]

Super slow

What’s up with that

[hollow river]

how do u sim on ur phone lol

[teal bloom]

Whispyr mobile gamer

[ebon patio]

Potato pc

[simple wadi]

@balmy condor sorry if this is the wrong channel - any idea why flag and sod aren't sync'd for sub? not worth worrying about?

[balmy condor]

Very carefully

[humble ginkgo]

wtf lol

[hollow river]

send yourself the data to sim?

[balmy condor]

They are

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[simple wadi]

they are but they are seperated by a gcd

initial flag is 1 s before sod

[balmy condor]

Just how it works, I wouldn’t worry about it

I’ve gotten this question so often

[simple wadi]

word

sorry

[balmy condor]

I’m probably gonna have to rewrite the apl

Just to get rid of the Jank

[civic trellis]

Anyone wanna troubleshoot a 2 min 2t rotation of mine? i am missing like 300 dps but idk from what 😄

[simple wadi]

its probably within the margin of error i'd imagine

[balmy condor]

Oh it super is

[simple wadi]

i just didnt know if there was some secret sauce that was over my head

[balmy condor]

The rewrite would be purely for people to see things they want to see

Shuffle some gcd’s around

[dim ledge]

With the current state of sub sims

would sin still be better on some boss fights?

[balmy condor]

I’m at work atm could you fill this out super quick as a reminder for me tomorrow? https://forms.gle/xxWmFe76XfhaML7J9

[simple wadi]

ye

[balmy condor]

Thanks boo

[forest vigil]

wait did kyrian just get nerfed away

cause that'd be cool

[fleet whale]

why do you want kyrian to get nerfed

[balmy condor]

Don’t believe it did

[forest vigil]

i dont want to play it ;^;

[fleet whale]

then don't lol

[forest vigil]

if you have to you have to

[fleet whale]

why do you have to play kyrina

does your M+ team need one

[forest vigil]

was looking at the ptr tuning is all and was wondering if that made a difference

[gusty mirage]

oh

newfound resolve got reduced to 10%

[echo geyser]

what is that

kleia?

pelagos?

[gusty mirage]

Pelagos

[kind dock]

So how does prove your worth work? I just did my necro one. If I turn it in say tomorrow after patch, I gotta wait for heroic week to get the 2nd part ?

[civic trellis]

nerf to necro aswell

[gusty mirage]

If its the first quest turn it in now before reset

you get a 2nd one on reset

that completes the switch

[fleet whale]

they buffed Draven... sadly it's not nearly enough to make him worth it for anything

[fleet moat]

Do you hold flag for Vendetta or use off CD?

[kind dock]

Gotcha so turn in Prove your Worth(The one where you get percentage towards them) then i'll still be venthyr unless I grab the quest that pops up tomorrow?

[gusty mirage]

on CD unless you won't miss a cast so usually at the tail end of a boss fight

[fleet moat]

got it thanks

[gusty mirage]

Is it the first quest?

[kind dock]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

then yeah turn it in, and tomorrow (assuming you're NA) you'll get a 2nd one

once you turn that in you'll be whatever you're switching to

[manic prism]

1GUIDE

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[kind dock]

Awesome thanks Oxi

[gusty mirage]

[ebon patio]

Am I the only one scared of switching covenant then blizz droping the nerf hammer on it and being stuck waiting for 2 weeks?

[balmy condor]

We’ve had a lot of doomsayers regarding sub and venth over the last week or so

I had to make a pin telling everyone to calm down because it got so bad

[ebon patio]

lol

We should make a channel to place our bets on whatever shit show happens in the next few weeks

[gusty mirage]

Or we could just stop speculating because a lurker may read it as a real possibility and not the typical chicken little sky is falling thing

[faint harness]

They literally dont do any tuning at all, most of the time

Specs that people could see had broken covenant stuff didnt get nerfed until months later

[hasty crater]

Im just waiting for patch day, and if there are no nerfs I go venthyr and pray to god they dont nerf in mythic week

[balmy condor]

I’d like to make a bet on how fast I can shift the topic away from silly speculation and doomsaying

Probably would be insider trading though

[gusty mirage]

It's not a discussion. A discussion involves more than just a circle jerk of "it's too strong it's def going to get nerfed".

[hasty crater]

As long as Fire mage dies I am a happy man tbh lmao

[ebon patio]

So the cops knew that internal affairs were setting them up? 😂

[faint harness]

As long as next op spec dies i am a happy man

[hasty crater]

Fire mage has been broken for to long though

[balmy condor]

Where did I put my bat….

For further doomsaying please visit #off-topic it’s a nice place

[fleet whale]

so on ptr if you use the MA leggo with the MA talent, your crits in the double MA window deal 50% increased damage
just kidding

the funny thing is i don't even think that would really make MA that much better (the leggo)

[ebon patio]

Changing topics, is it worth to do a full torghast run today before reset or the suffering isn't worth the SA?

[bitter canyon]

hey guys, quick question, I heard there is a way to skip guessing game on the mistweaver fight

[fleet anchor]

Good luck.

[bitter canyon]

heard that you need to push her past the guessing game threshholds (70%, 40%), while shes doing the dodgeball, itll skip

[balmy condor]

Yeah honestly

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I would just because it’ll take less spamming later on

[hasty crater]

SA will be useful @ebon patio u can give it to alts etc. And as a rogue torghast takes like 5/10 min if ur geared

[gusty mirage]

Get some rng with the chain power and stealth to the boss for an easy W

[balmy condor]

Getting the cast sequence sparkly clean so people don’t nitpick why the one gcd isn’t the other one @fleet anchor

[fleet anchor]

Will be honest, there actually isn't that much jank in the APL. There are things that maybe look like jank, but probably aren't. 😛

[balmy condor]

My obedience stuff is kinda jank

[gusty mirage]

It works though

[balmy condor]

If you just look at the casts alone

Flag into sod for sure looks weird

[hasty crater]

@balmy condor just out of curiosity what covenant and sprc are u planning to play ?

[balmy condor]

Might be able to solve it by rearranging the lines

[inner temple]

but does it? omg obedience is lie, everyone go nfae now!

[balmy condor]

That would be the best

[balmy condor]

Venth sin/sub

[fleet anchor]

Unless something is horrifically wrong, things that "look" wrong in the cast sequence is usually just SimC playing better at adjusting for random occurrences than the simple mental models people make to play themselves.

[gusty mirage]

I’m forever a Whispyr simp, so yes

[hasty crater]

Kk ty

[fleet anchor]

e.g. usually the APL is "wrong" because it's better than a player 😛

[balmy condor]

Yeah kinda

I’ll still look into it though

Cause it’s like the 15th time someone brought it up

[fleet anchor]

It's ok to look into random things, just saying they usually aren't anything

[balmy condor]

I agree

Oh @fleet anchor out of curiosity, does sod affect flag with bugs turned on

Cause that’s apparently still a thing

That might have an actual effect on the order

Idk how to check bug implementation

[fleet anchor]

Will check shortly

Also which part are you talking about?

[quick chasm]

!weakauras

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fleet anchor]

Flag damage component seems to still be in the SoD whitelist so this should be in sims

[brazen gust]

Yo guys i cant decided if i should play Outlaw or Assassination

is Assassination any good in mythic plus and raiding

[hasty crater]

Sin bis with sub for raiding

[echo mantle]

Everything is viable. Play what you like the best 🙂 I play Sin for everything because I hate Outlaw 😄

[hasty crater]

Outlaw isnt that bad in SL tbh. If u havnt played it since BFA i would recommend giving it a shot

No longer having to perma roll for good buffs makes it a lot better

[misty holly]

What is the uptime on Kevin's oozling? That looks like a big buff.

2% -> 6%

[gusty mirage]

Uh oh

Someone said Kevin, don’t tell Koji

[hasty crater]

Isnt Kevin in Marileths tree ?

[gusty mirage]

Yeah

[hasty crater]

Isnt that tree kinda... meh to begin with ?

[mystic osprey]

Mari looking sexy

[misty holly]

Well it has 2 big buffs now, consume corpse always getting humanoid, and now oozling too.

[hasty crater]

Might make her a lot better, dont think it changes much overall tho, might be best for necro in ST

But we wont know until sims

[viscid spear]

I'm not getting as many Renown from heroics as I was hoping

[gusty mirage]

It’s complete rng, tomorrow’s a new day where you can embrace the rng race all over again

[viscid spear]

But I was gonna grind through the night

[shy dust]

What’s your renown

[viscid spear]

14 atm

[shy dust]

You should be fine still spamming heroics

Just continue grinding

[hasty crater]

Arent they increasing renown droprate up til 40 with the patch ?

So grinding it right now feels... unnecesary ?

[viscid spear]

[shy dust]

They’re increasing renown catch-up even more so

In 9.1

[hasty crater]

Yeah thats what i thought

[shy dust]

Idk if it’s unnecessary

[hasty crater]

I mean not optimal

Doing it a day before it gets easier to do

[strange python]

now we be getting 2 renown from heroic instead of one PeepoNice

[hasty crater]

When next reset there isnt anything to do anyway since everything releases second week of patch

[fleet anchor]

The uptime depends on how much you want it to be

[sleek sundial]

BOIS DO WE GO NECRO OR VENTH, IM SO CONFUSED

[fleet anchor]

You can extend the buff indefinitely with SBS meaning you can farm duration on shitter mobs

I got like a 6 minute buff the other day on PTR 🤣

But "normally" the uptime is like 35-45% or something, depending on fight length

[random fog]

9.1 what covenant is everyone planning on going? new to rogue.

[sleek sundial]

Venthyr it is

[misty holly]

SBS is really fun to use.

Unless necro becomes so bad it isn't even viable I can't see myself ever switching.

[fleet anchor]

Blizzard was linked the sims today that shows Obedience extremely above everything else. It depends on how much you feel they will do anything about it as to if you are inclined to swap immediately.

[hasty crater]

Aoe yes. ST its meh to use imo

[misty holly]

Even in ST I really like having it. It's free on demand combo points.

[hasty crater]

I mean think what i will do is wait for 9.1 release, go venthyr if no nerfs... and pray to god they dont touch it in mythic week

[simple wadi]

Interesting that they don't have an internal model - is it normal that they look at third party implementations?

[fleet anchor]

If I swap it won't really be until late in Heroic week

Whipsyr memes but Kevin at 6% plus default Humanoid benefit on Solvent probably brings Marileth pretty decent

[balmy condor]

Snitch

[balmy condor]

I do meme on marileth, mostly cause he’s dogshit atm

But the buffs

Are kinda crazy

[simple wadi]

Interesting - my first tier so didn't know. Still kinda wierd - you'd think their first pass at everything would be based on their own models. Maybe it still is and this is just to make sure they aren't off.

[fleet whale]

i mean Marileth being a meme is justified though

prior to 9.1, other than potency conduits, I don't believe he had a real dps trait

[lone wren]

you cant replicate real world data, you can get close with simulations but only so much a small team can do vs an entire player base testing and each group focusing on a specific class/spec gathering data

[fleet whale]

the solvent thing needed corpses

[lone wren]

thats why community numbers are valuable to devs

[simple wadi]

I mean you are building the system - I hope its based on an internal model.

[balmy condor]

You’d think blizzard has their own model

But it doesn’t seem like that

[lone wren]

they do

[simple wadi]

That's really kinda bad

[fleet whale]

we don't know how blizz really does things

[fleet anchor]

I'm sure they have spreadsheets and stuff

[shy dust]

Traitor

Necro simps

[fleet anchor]

And they have in-game automation tools

[lone wren]

but the community will gather a lot of data in a short amount of time, so that data is useful on top of their internal model

[fleet anchor]

But replicating something like SimC itself is actually pretty hard

[balmy condor]

I didn’t do shit, I’m a proud venth boy

[fleet anchor]

Considering it takes like 40 people to keep up and running 😛

[shy dust]

Was piling onto Koji being a traitor

[balmy condor]

Oh

Yes

Koji is a traitorous stinky boy

[simple wadi]

In the long run, using the community to test your systems is a great way to constanstly miss the mark on what you want to do and not really understand what you are missing

[viscid spear]

Priest gave me PI in that ToP

[fleet anchor]

I mean I won't swap Venthyr unless I absolutely need to. Don't really feel like doing another Covenant from scratch tbh

Shit system

[strange python]

https://tenor.com/view/wow4-warcraft-venthyr-gif-21896972

[shy dust]

Grinding 30 heroic dungeons

Then 7 hours of campaign is enjoyable Koji

[fleet anchor]

I'm usually diplomatic about Blizzard stuff honestly.. but I won't be diplomatic about the Covenant system

It's ass

Was never going to be balanced and never will be balanced

[strange python]

lmao all of my mage friends are swapping to kyrian arcane

[lone wren]

no system is worse than legion legendary at launch

[errant plover]

Imagine if we all just had the same few trees/abilities available to us, and covenants we're purely cosmetic. The dream.

[lone wren]

after you got fucked over with that, these systems are child play

[errant plover]

It's like blizzard wants balance to be hard.

[fleet anchor]

You are probably right although I do think Covenants are fairly close

Legiondaries at launch have an edge

[lone wren]

i mean i do understand the hysteria for players in guilds competing for world first

[balmy condor]

I think legion legendary at launch was better because at least it’s just grinding and m+ was new and exciting

But covenants are just really annoying

[strange python]

would be infinitely more okay with it if swapping covs didn't take 2 resets

[lone wren]

but for most of us, why bother? we will wait 2-3 weeks in see how things go, then swap covenants should we need to

[strange python]

@balmy condor I see the pins of you saying sylv daggers will be BiS but then most recent pin says no sylv daggers ?

[balmy condor]

Not implemented in sims

[strange python]

one of the 9.1 features should have been freedom to swap covs whenever you want imo especially since even in terms of the story its all about them working together right now, just seems stupid to me

[balmy condor]

The effect itself is bugged to hell

[strange python]

oh wow

okay

[balmy condor]

So it doesn’t actually sim

[strange python]

so

[fleet whale]

i just hope in the expac following SL

[strange python]

do you think it will still be BiS?

or cant tell

[fleet anchor]

Well, somewhat ironically

[fleet whale]

that blizz strays away from convuluted borrowed power systems

[fleet anchor]

The performance difference between Legiondaries was pretty small compared to some of the performance difference we are seeing now

[lone wren]

is it really punishment if you do 1.2% or 2% less or more dps though?

[fleet anchor]

In 9.1 we're looking at much larger than that

[errant plover]

Yes.

[viscid spear]

That's what I'm doing right now
Help me

[fleet whale]

night fae is pretty bad for rogues now

[fleet anchor]

NF is like 7-10% behind in 9.1

That's pretty terrible

That's way worse than Legion

[lone wren]

the alternative is how FFXIV does it, that game so tightly controlled by devs, everything is predictable

[fleet whale]

in fact are dks and rogues the only classes in the game that don't roll NF in any of their specs?

[lone wren]

it's boring as fuck end game.

[fleet whale]

there were more broken leggos than shoulders in Legion
though chain poison bomb openers were hilarious

[strange python]

I still don't really think that last minute niya burrs nerf was necessary lol

[fleet whale]

literally did as much dps in those first 10 seconds as every other dps combined lol

[strange python]

think blizz just really wanted people to switch off of night fae since it was the most popular

for like a lot of classes

[fleet whale]

well yeah, honestly it was lame how good it was across everything

throw in soul shape greatly increasing mobility of slow specs

and you have an unbalanced covenant

[odd hazel]

Let us change covenants at will and it’ll be gg

[forest vigil]

9.3 when 9.0 is finally complete

🙂

[fleet whale]

do the sylvanas dagger effects still only work for one rogue per raid

[fleet anchor]

I mean it didn't even make sense by max level

The lore on Covenant swapping was totally scuffed from day one lol

You're literally the hero of every damn Covenant in some major way by the time you reach level 60

[fleet whale]

"meaningful choice"

"immersive gameplay"

[fleet anchor]

Oh you only saved our entire existance

And pulled me out of the Maw

[fleet whale]

these are hot terms blizz use to justify anything

[fleet anchor]

And saved our realm and everyone in it

But you better go do 10 M+ runs to prove yourself again

🤔

[forest vigil]

I wish there were internal leaks about the blizz team talking about these systems

[fleet whale]

Bobby Kottick is probably there watching from a corner

[forest vigil]

I just want to know if they're really brain-dead or if it's a scheme

at this point I'd accept any answer happily

[fleet whale]

it's all there to increase player time metrics

so they have something "positive" to show shareholders

[strange python]

I just love that interview with Ion where he said more players than you think like to grind currency on alts

[forest vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/critical-role-matthew-mercer-sigh-wipe-face-gif-16132325

[inner temple]

tbf, i think its 2 and its really 4 griff

either one has no consequence on population, but it doesnt make him a liar lol

[fleet anchor]

Ironically

I'm pretty sure it would have increased player time metrics to allow players to do all 4 campaigns and collect all 4 sets of pets/mounts and upgrade all 4 HQs

Rather than making them camp in a single one and get bored

Because like every casual player I know quit shortly after the last week of the campaign

[fleet whale]

Honestly I'm not sure what blizz wants anymore from their players

[civic trellis]

its always possible to keep 100% uptime of CT in 2t cleave?

[fleet whale]

it's like they actually don't care about the casual playerbase

[civic trellis]

and 100% uptime of poisons

https://gyazo.com/a378a7894755bd03bcceee5983f85aed

[fleet anchor]

I mean you probably don't want to use CT during Shiv+Vendetta in 2T but I haven't checked super recently

[civic trellis]

APL uses it

but rupture and garrote is higher prio than CT

idk

i always miss like 200 dps compared to sims

[fleet anchor]

For 2T looks like it yeah but lower priority

[vapid solar]

New to rogue and im guessing Assas is the move for mainly raid but what legendary should i craft first?

[balmy condor]

doomblade, obedience in a couple weeks if it survives

[civic trellis]

There is also an issue with direct poison damage (not the dot one)

sims always are doing 2% more than me

did like 15 times 2 min 2t rota to check it

[balmy condor]

I would be very surprised

if there was an actual problem

[civic trellis]

No i dont mean that

i mean i dont see where i am failing at

[balmy condor]

envenom uptime, rng

direct dot damage has double rng technically cause you can get unlucky with the application, and then get unlucky with the crits on top

[vapid solar]

What piece would I craft Doomblade on?

[balmy condor]

not surprised that there's some fluctuation

[balmy condor]

cloak

[granite thistle]

@vapid solar cloak

[vapid solar]

kk tyvm

[granite thistle]

Hi Whyspyr

Whatsup bb girl

[balmy condor]

hello

[granite thistle]

So obedience stonks huh

[balmy condor]

correct

stonks if/until blizzard decides it's too much

even though it really isn't

[granite thistle]

Mhm mhm

There's really no good outlaw fights in this raid right?

I melee brain never swap from boss

[simple wadi]

i think outlaw could be decent on painsmith

[balmy condor]

nothing particularly stand-out, no

[simple wadi]

but sub probably better

[strange python]

multi target fights where the targets aren't close enough to blade flurry

[granite thistle]

Sounds like it's back to venthyr gang

Am vampire. Feels my fangs

[strange python]

are the rumors true

is spriest the new boomy for st

[loud light]

what does that even mean

spriest was already top dog in st in 9.0.5

[granite thistle]

Lol

[strange python]

seemed like it was close comp between boomy/spriest/afflock

[balmy condor]

it really wasn't

spriest was a runaway

[loud light]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2405&dataset=90

[shy dust]

@balmy condor

it was close

[balmy condor]

it was so close

[errant plover]

Combat rogue makes an appearance

[marble hemlock]

necro ?

how big are they whispyr

[balmy condor]

no clue

seems pretty

but also obedience exists

so

[marble hemlock]

sure

obedience cope

still going strong

[balmy condor]

yessir

I'd like to play sub this tier

at least once

so we huffin straight hopium

[gusty mirage]

[shy dust]

only assa can be the good spec

[balmy condor]

sub deserves it

rooting for the homies in blue

[marble hemlock]

errr

we need to have a talk whispyr

[shy dust]

people thinking sub could be viable for a tier

Seli takes that personally

[gloomy knoll]

sin and sub are viable and both get a new leggo that actually changes the rotation

this is literally the best possible option we could ask for

and people are huffin and puffin

[balmy condor]

since I started in wod, I have more hours on sub than I do on sin probably

[gloomy knoll]

on god fuck rogues i hate yall so much

[balmy condor]

and I'm tried of pretending to be the OTP

[sonic schooner]

True we swap from hands doomblade to cloak doomblade

[marble hemlock]

i think ill have to ask you to return the travelling assassination pants.

[gloomy knoll]

LOL

[balmy condor]

yeah but it's stronger than the rest of our trash and that's not good

• Kojiyama 2021

paraphrased

[shy dust]

it means you have to go venthyr thats ba

bad*

[viscid spear]

I'm still upset that Campfire 2020 didn't pan out

[shy dust]

and blizzard hates that

its not like 90% of ranged were fae in 9.0

[sonic schooner]

Well 90% of the ranged player Base was boomies and mages

[gloomy knoll]

oh damn

i fucked up the meme

[shy dust]

shadow priest and lock were also prevalent

[marble hemlock]

blizz is gonna realize that obedience is too good, nerf it by like 50%, then someone realizes that it simmed too high anyway due to implementation issues and then its just another 2% dps increase legendary like all the others

[shy dust]

only assa can be good

[gloomy knoll]

whispyr rn

[shy dust]

[marble hemlock]

directed by m night shyamalan

[sonic schooner]

I wish they don't nerf obedience. Not because I'm going venthyr fk it I stay with poisonous boys. But if they don't nerf Obe they ll maybe buff the others 🙄

[marble hemlock]

now thats some serious

[gloomy knoll]

oh no we got a slightly better legendary that actually does something like every other class in the game quick everybody freak out

rogues r so lame

[marble hemlock]

well yeah

thats waaaa too close

to a ranged dps

[sonic schooner]

Just use cos and cheatdeath to have less downtime on the boss and beat the sp

[marble hemlock]

woops

[sonic schooner]

[marble hemlock]

cant beat SP

its just too good

[gloomy knoll]

true

rogue is diet shadow priest for a reason

[fresh tinsel]

hey guys, one question which one is the best covenant to raiders? necro or venthyr

[gloomy knoll]

we're just a stepping stone

to the true st spec

lookin like venthyr @fresh tinsel

[sonic schooner]

Mostly depends on what u play, sin/OL or sin/sub

[gloomy knoll]

we still have the tuning pass ahead though things can be subject to change

[marble hemlock]

necro for cleave/aoe, venthyr for st/prio

[gloomy knoll]

i see no reason to go necro when the st difference is 400 dps tbh

[marble hemlock]

if you wanna multispec, venthyr for assa+sub, necro for assa+outlaw

[gloomy knoll]

sin already has good cleave

regardless

but seli is right

[sonic schooner]

But if u play OL in m+ and u are a pusher 🙄

[gloomy knoll]

it's personal preference at the end of the day

[hollow river]

so is today the last day to spend valor?

or do we have until season two opens

[gloomy knoll]

last day i believe

[hollow river]

because i just got a phial

[sonic schooner]

[gloomy knoll]

since mythic+ season

ends

[hollow river]

[marble hemlock]

biggest questionmark for me would be the difference in dmg for venthyr assa during execute. as you might very well play zoldyck for execute dmg anyway, unless youre literally matching the dps during execute with obedience

[fleet anchor]

Think this is a bad take tbh

[sonic schooner]

U can sell it and farm plaguefall tomorrow again I think

[fleet anchor]

One Covenant-specific legendary being 7% higher than everything else is just straight bad tuning

The question is not if it will be nerfed, it's when

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[fleet anchor]

Better at the start of the tier than the middle

[marble hemlock]

they already nerfed deathspike when it was in a similar position

[humble ginkgo]

Rogues are doing comparable damage to broken ranged classes, nerf it

[fleet anchor]

If it were a generic legendary I don't think anyone would care

[sonic schooner]

Feelsbadman me thinking of the famous words "covenants are mostly cosmetics"

[marble hemlock]

and to me its a question of whether obedience is good enough to be played on fights that require good execute dmg. if it isnt, and zoldyck edges it out during those fights, then the difference between covenants becomes nonexistant again

[humble ginkgo]

very true

[gloomy knoll]

say that to literally every other spec in the game

[fleet anchor]

Covenant specific imo has a higher standard for tuning because of how it forces player behavior when they specifically did a giant tuning pass to try to make the Covenants close together

[shy dust]

thankfully kyrian is within 4%

so no nerf needed

[gloomy knoll]

the only reason

[humble ginkgo]

I wish all covenants were equal and it was mostly for aesthetics but thats in an ideal world

[gloomy knoll]

our covenants

[shy dust]

[gloomy knoll]

are ven a disucssion

[sonic schooner]

But wait

[gloomy knoll]

of which one you can go

is because they're all so shitty

[marble hemlock]

i.e. if sylv p3 is by far the hardest phase, and zoldyck is 1-2% stronger than obedience, than the question becomes whether it is worth playing obedience at that point (esp early on when zuoldyck pants have a much better stat budget than a cloak)

[fleet anchor]

9.0 -> Covenants within 3%
9.0.5 -> Make Covenants within 1%
9.1 -> Make Covenants within 7%
🤔

[gloomy knoll]

to begin with

[sonic schooner]

I guess if we most likely to play zoldyck we would go venthyr anyway nah?

[gloomy knoll]

most other specs only have 1 viable option

because it's vastly superior

to every other option

[marble hemlock]

if you go zoldyck anyway, then necro and venthyr are pmuch even

[gloomy knoll]

in fact rogue was the outlier

[marble hemlock]

with necro winning on cleave

[shy dust]

well doesnt p3 sylvanas

start at like 60%

[marble hemlock]

yeah

im guessing

secret mythic phase

at like 30

[shy dust]

they said no

[marble hemlock]

like nzoth

[humble ginkgo]

isnt p3 sylv literally just sire

the giant plateforms breaks

[marble hemlock]

nah

[humble ginkgo]

aka ravage

[marble hemlock]

its 4 small platforms

[humble ginkgo]

[gloomy knoll]

i don't disagree that it's bad design though koji

you are 100% right on that

[shy dust]

didnt they say in an interview

[gloomy knoll]

but what can ya do i'd rather be a good dps

[shy dust]

there is no mythic secret pahse for sylvanas

[fleet anchor]

I always know there will be a percentage of people who will take something OP regardless of how toxic it is for the community or players

[gloomy knoll]

than have 7 shitty options that all do nothing

[fleet anchor]

Of course I'll swap to Venthyr too if it stays this way

[sonic schooner]

I was thinking that Necro was bis specially for doomblade sbs bleed added

[regal path]

anyone had issues with cloak sometimes working sometimes not on mythic sire massacre???

[fleet anchor]

But I don't think that means we say "yeah it's cool that one Covenant specific leggo is like 3x better than everything else for Sub"

Our feedback will 100% be "yeah this is dumb"

😛

[gloomy knoll]

i'll take obedience because it's the only halfway decent legendary that actually changes our rotation

literally every other rogue legendary is weak and or does absolutely nothing but passively increases damage

i was hyper stoked for deathspike but

rip the homie

[marble hemlock]

some realtalk for a second. its absolutely insane that they managed to not only balance all 3 rogue specs so closely to each other, but also all covenants (if we discount obedience outlier). its particularly amazing when you consider how little time and effort was actually spent on rogue in general during alpha, beta and PTR

[fleet anchor]

Tuning is through class passive hotfixes, not accidental OP shit that is bound to get nerfed eventually

[viscid burrow]

@regal pathworks p2 not p3

[gloomy knoll]

i mean when everything is only worth

3%

[fleet anchor]

Having temporary OP shit

[gloomy knoll]

or something low like that

[fleet anchor]

Is literally how Sub has gotten dumpstered in the Mythic hotfix

[hollow river]

isn't that what obediense does? just gives us stats?

[gloomy knoll]

it's a lot easier than other specs with like

[marble hemlock]

look at all the other triple-dps classes, they tend to only have one viable covenant and spec each tier

[fleet anchor]

Like in 5 out of the last 7 tiers

[regal path]

its worked sometimes in p3

[fleet anchor]

😄

[gloomy knoll]

22% leggos lol

true

i'm not arguing that it's not shit design but

i'd rather be a viable dps and get to play the specs i enjoy

albeit only temporary

than have a bunch of shitty options that do nothing

[fleet anchor]

Sub has OP Azerite traits in week 1 Uldir, we saw how that turned out. They got dumpstered 3 times and then Sub was useless for a year.

[gloomy knoll]

and play a sub par class

[marble hemlock]

we should be thankful we have had multiple playable specs pmuch every tier

[viscid burrow]

@regal pathdoesnt work p3. must have missed u

[fleet anchor]

Relying on individual broken things is a bad idea

[marble hemlock]

very few multi-dps spec classes can claim that

[gloomy knoll]

it changes the rotation for sub quite a bit

[hollow river]

ah

[gloomy knoll]

literally shifts the entire dynamic of the specs rulings

like slamming symbols on cd

[sonic schooner]

I don't really see how obedience changes our rotation

[gloomy knoll]

or using things in dance

etc

[sonic schooner]

I must miss a critical information

[regal path]

ill send u a clip of it being immuned 1 sec

[hollow river]

go to the sim link

and check the rotation in the HTML

[gloomy knoll]

true, in an ideal scenario the specs would just be implemented and tuned properly with fun mechanics. i honestly don't like all the extra borrowed power crap but i just want to be able to play the specs i enjoy at the end of the day so i'll accept it

[fleet anchor]

Either way, if Obedience stays broken probably everyone will be using it until it gets hotfixed. Until it goes live, my feedback will be that the tuning is dumb.

[humble ginkgo]

true but they fucked up covenants bad lol I love that all 3 rogue specs are good but having 1 cov across every spec being the best is kind of shitty especially if its all in the leggo, in 9.05 all 3 cov were like what 70-200 between all of them now every covenant is a 500 dps loss from obedience

[shy dust]

tbf

[marble hemlock]

thats not gonna stay that way

[humble ginkgo]

Yea

[shy dust]

necro was enroaching

[humble ginkgo]

thats why im not jumping the necro ship just yet

[shy dust]

as being the dominant covenant

[marble hemlock]

this isnt me hating on venthyr or obedience. its just not gonna be that way

[shy dust]

especially for assa

[marble hemlock]

deathspike got nerfed after it was broken for a while

[shy dust]

with it doing more st damage than venthye before obedience

[humble ginkgo]

because I know after people craft obedience it will get nerfed just dont know when

[marble hemlock]

it doesnt take much for someone at blizzard to pick up on the obedience hype atm

[shy dust]

which is dumb

[marble hemlock]

to realize "this needs changing"

[shy dust]

when its cleave is so good

[humble ginkgo]

but then again I could jump ship and abuse it

[humble ginkgo]

well its literally a cleave covenant ability

like what do you expect

[shy dust]

to it not do more st?

[humble ginkgo]

did it do more in st?

[sonic schooner]

Yea the worst thing about obedience strength is that it is linked to a covenant

It stinks

[shy dust]

the preliminary sims

whispyr had necro edging out venthyr

[humble ginkgo]

SBS was always a bit under venthyr iirc

[shy dust]

in st

[humble ginkgo]

and as outlaw sbs was under whatever but its because its not used properly in sims

[shy dust]

sbs was then buffed in ptr

[humble ginkgo]

ah I see

[sonic schooner]

I like to shiv mut env sbs env sbs env

And Necro was about to catch up venthyr ST with the famous fix "sbs bleed can now crit"

And then, obedience shows

[gloomy knoll]

at the end of the day

i'd rather be a viable dps spec

than be able to play all 4 covenants and be shit

[humble ginkgo]

yup

[gloomy knoll]

at everything

[shy dust]

be assa

the raid spec

only spec that can be good in raid

[humble ginkgo]

I mean SBS just made the game more fun to me tbh

[rugged heron]

@gloomy knoll that name doe pepegamoves

[humble ginkgo]

makes it more fun in raid and in aoe

[rugged heron]

I want DFA back

[gloomy knoll]

having to only spend

[humble ginkgo]

im glad its still good

[gloomy knoll]

sbs

[humble ginkgo]

just not BIS

[gloomy knoll]

during gemstones

makes it worse than venth

imo

that gameplay was fucking awful

[humble ginkgo]

well yea sbs on assa is a joke lmao

but the way it works on outlaw is 10/10

[gloomy knoll]

well yea they can use it w/e they want as long as skull isn't up

[hollow river]

i like it

[balmy condor]

oh also @marble hemlock I literally can't win cause if I say necro good, then people like tisu will call me braindead, and if I say venth then you're gonna pull out the belt and koji is gonna pull out the marileth, and if I try to say they're both good, then I get "oNe oF tHeM iS bEtTeR tHo"

really unlucky

[vapid solar]

For raid overall, Assas is above Outlaw right?

[balmy condor]

[humble ginkgo]

did you see the marileth buffs whisp?

[sonic schooner]

Sbs on outlaw single target is "don't use it ever if u have a generator rtb activ"

[humble ginkgo]

sim it

[balmy condor]

I got the 9.2 pins cooking right now

[humble ginkgo]

that kevin ooze thing

looks juicy

might pull ahead of heirmir

[sonic schooner]

9.2 sims already

[humble ginkgo]

on ST

[sonic schooner]

Is fae lego ahead by 800 dps now?

[sand plume]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[foggy ember]

I've come to really enjoy ass rogue, fingers crossed I don't have to swap back to sub

[balmy condor]

no one has to swap or do anything

necro venth sin sub outlaw kyrian

all fine

[humble ginkgo]

yup

[balmy condor]

it's just a lot of arguing back and forth

over miniscule things

[humble ginkgo]

I mean yea

everyone grasping at dps

[sonic schooner]

U will have to swap to what u want to. I do more dmg as a rogue than as SP because holy heck I hate this class

[humble ginkgo]

but when its a 7% increase

[sonic schooner]

[humble ginkgo]

I think its a no brainer

[fleet anchor]

Just link the sims and tell people to pick what they want. Or link Mystler's guide and absolve yourself. 😛

[civic trellis]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ecPgF5JrkhfNJ98zHqBmXt/simc

https://gyazo.com/0423c301ace946b4020d7569125d0a58

[gloomy knoll]

are you in a hall of fame guild

[civic trellis]

that means poison dot hit 285 times right?

[humble ginkgo]

man what the fuck is that

ive never seen a sim like that

o,0

[sonic schooner]

I love how u are always skipping fae Whispyr 💜

[humble ginkgo]

how it should be

[civic trellis]

(bottom right)

[humble ginkgo]

what class will even go night fae?

warriors?

[balmy condor]

I mean that's what I try to do with the pins, also why I want them out early, so people can see the numbers and make informed decisions, with as up to date info as possible

and I know it's shaky sims

but like

having an idea is good

[gloomy knoll]

i appreciate it

[balmy condor]

and then it's still "well necro" "but obedience"

[humble ginkgo]

mages hunters and boomies are all leaving night fae

[balmy condor]

it doesn't matter

[fleet anchor]

Add a !covenant command and make Moroes take all the blame

[balmy condor]

yo true

[humble ginkgo]

make it so that when someone types !covenant it posts 1 of the 4 at random

[balmy condor]

at the end of the day, play what makes you happy it's a god damn game

[humble ginkgo]

That would be amazing

[sonic schooner]

The fun part about Boomies is that they are "omg 9.1 venthyr sims better than fae"

But it's already the case since 9.0 ptr

[fleet anchor]

I mean this is where I'm confused by the Rogue situation

[gloomy knoll]

to be fair

their legendaries got nerfed and they got a new venth leggo

so it's kind of differen't censi

[fleet anchor]

Since literally every other spec with massive outliers has been trying to nerf/buff to remove the outliers in both 9.0.5 and 9.1

[humble ginkgo]

boomkins crying about nerfs

but still being broken

[fleet anchor]

But Rogues introducing a huge Covenant outlier

Seems very inconsistent with their goals

[humble ginkgo]

I mean

[balmy condor]

I think the weirdest part of it all is that we need the outlier to keep up with things like spriest and ret and shit

[humble ginkgo]

people are just happy

that their spec will do a fuck ton with a new leggo

[sonic schooner]

Most of people forget that sims are just numbers and dsnt really reflect the ingame reality, it s always different from fight to fight

[humble ginkgo]

after an entire tier of being shit

[sonic schooner]

[balmy condor]

ret sims are like 10.3 - 10.4

[fleet anchor]

I mean good luck keeping up with SP anyway, they are broke

[gloomy knoll]

if ret is better than rogue i'm legit quitting this game

[humble ginkgo]

they got "nerfed" bro

[gloomy knoll]

i refuse to live in a world where the boomer clicker spec is a fucking viable option

on god i'll delete wow so quick

[fleet anchor]

Ret has been way better than it looks for a long time, just Ret players are largely not very good

[gloomy knoll]

that's because they all fucking click and keyboard turn

[humble ginkgo]

TRUE

[pallid bough]

You know the most annoying part of boomy? They pull at 2 seconds left on the timer

[humble ginkgo]

I have a ret pally friend and hes fucking nuts

[gloomy knoll]

i'm fine with a ranged class

being op

but RET

naw fam

[fleet anchor]

Having raided with like a top 10 Ret and having him push my shit in on almost every pull even when I'm putting up great parses too

[sonic schooner]

Palret brings raid utility

[gloomy knoll]

i'll die on that hill

[humble ginkgo]

same with DH tbh most peopel will say dh is shit but its because most of the players that play dh are just shit spastic people

[fleet anchor]

Ret's been good the entire xpac

[humble ginkgo]

[hollow river]

so who here doesn't have venthyr, necro and kyrian at 40

[civic trellis]

i have only necro at 40

😄

[sonic schooner]

And fae, all of the four

[gloomy knoll]

i have necro kyrian fae and venth leveled up

[hollow river]

i've never been fae

[sonic schooner]

Rogue 9.0 life

[humble ginkgo]

I have necro kyrian and fae

[gloomy knoll]

welcome to meaningful choice

[humble ginkgo]

didnt think I would touch venthyr ever..

[fleet anchor]

Also, the other fact of the matter is

[humble ginkgo]

thought it was an assassination only cov

[hollow river]

i have venth kyrian and necro all 40

[humble ginkgo]

[fleet anchor]

It's pretty hard to get behind Venthyr getting like a 10-12% legendary

[hollow river]

i was venthyr outlaw for a time

[fleet anchor]

When Night Fae gets like a 0.8% legendary 🤣

[gloomy knoll]

i mean they just fumbled the bag on leggo

[hollow river]

buff fae

[gloomy knoll]

whoever designed that is straight up just dumb

[hollow river]

15% fae leggo inc

[gloomy knoll]

but like

[hollow river]

lets goooo

[gloomy knoll]

look at fury warrior

exact same situation as us

[fleet anchor]

Night Fae legendary is legitimately an abomination

[gloomy knoll]

they all going venthyr for new venth leggo

that's worth like 15%

[fleet anchor]

It is so so bad

[gloomy knoll]

literally permanent uptime of their major cd recklessness

in execute

[hollow river]

lol my warrior was already venthyr POG

[sonic schooner]

Whisp idk if u do that kind of stuff, but so you think obedience will be the go to in pvp aswell? I mean more vers scaling with trinkets sounds so good

[humble ginkgo]

ofc it is but the people that are backing up obedience are the same people that were 10-12% dps both specs for an entire tier, do you really think they will pass an opportunity like that?

[gloomy knoll]

it's actually fucking insane

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

I just don't get how you have things going like 10.2-10.5 with (arguably worse implementation in sims), and we're like struggling for sub to be relevant for a tier in 3 expansion with an outlier legendary

that's what makes me mad

like at least balance something at all

[gloomy knoll]

yea the night fae leggo needs to be scrapped

[humble ginkgo]

but this is also a problem

[gloomy knoll]

sub been dead for 3 fucking years

[hollow river]

but kyrian is good for sub ya?

[humble ginkgo]

they will nerf obedience

[fleet anchor]

Because Blizzard doesn't want Sub to be good in raids

[humble ginkgo]

AND subtlety again

and make it unplayable

[gloomy knoll]

THREE YEARS

like sure other stuff hasn't been meta

[fleet anchor]

This seems clear enough sadly

[gloomy knoll]

but sub has literally been a troll pick

[humble ginkgo]

one tier of sub being good = too much nerf it to the ground.

[gloomy knoll]

for three years

forget even being meta

[fleet anchor]

They are fine with Sub being the "PvP spec"

[gloomy knoll]

if you played sub

you were legit inting