assassination

[main blaze]

Yeah definitely, was just looking at the pins and saw that.

[vestal wren]

i hope they are fixed with normal/heroic week

[main blaze]

Wasnt sure the status

[vestal wren]

(and don't get massive nerfs in mythic week)

[vestal zodiac]

Would we drop ilvl for the sylv dagger, or gotta wait for math?

[grim jay]

just sim them if you get them

[vestal wren]

math can only be done once the implementation works correctly on ptr

so we wait for them to work

they currently have a lot of effects/issues that are probably not intened

[main blaze]

Yeah as much as I want them to fix stuff, if they dont buff any rogue abilities etc.. I dont mind being propped up by a dagger.

[cobalt pelican]

rogues are in as good as a spot as they can be even without the dagger

like damage numbers are all there already, we're just kinda.. melee with 0 raid util

[vestal wren]

^ we don't depend on the dagger for good output

the dagger just has the potential to make us... slightly to strong

but there is nothing that stops blizz from swinging the nerf bat if thats the case (on the dagger)

[thorny pond]

No utility means we need to sacrifice ourselves to do mechanics, use our personals etc. Keep raid lead happy

[drifting cloud]

lmao

[limpid scarab]

exactly, rogue ist tuning dependet, that's what I meant.
but it seems more or less well tuned atm, so I think u are always able to bring rogues into ur raid, especially if u are mit a top 100 guild

[vestal wren]

i think blizz is in a weird spot right now

they can't have rogue as a dead class for another tier

this is likely why they buffed sin significantly and brought back subtlety

[main blaze]

Oh yeah definitely, my comment was more on the side of if a dagger is what brings me in on progression then Im fine with that.

[cobalt pelican]

rogues were pretty good later on in this tier

[main blaze]

But rogues are pretty fine after the Assn buffs

[vestal wren]

while they did a decent job with sin changes, the subtlety ones are interesting

i need to side with mystler on this and say "i did not expect those exact changes"

[cobalt pelican]

i think most of the issues with rogue are just overarching design decisions and not really anything to do with the class, class is and will be v good basically every tier regardless

[drifting cloud]

There were rogues in top5 sire kills you people need to chill

[vestal wren]

to be clear, i also don't understand that they removed snd rank 2

[drifting cloud]

Just because they werent stacked doesnt mean theyre dead theres alot of room inbetween you know

[vestal wren]

because as is casting snd feels bad

[whole mason]

For this one, what if blz just have rogue as a dead class for another tier?

[slender berry]

just because you can kill bosses with them doesnt mean it feels good to be undertuned

[vestal wren]

they already confirmed that they are aware that rogue needs some sort of utility

in the dev interview

[whole mason]

yea, utility but...?

[vestal wren]

this means 2 things of one is less likely to happen

either they will look at raid utility in general and remove almost everything

[viscid spear]

Smoke Bomb?

[main blaze]

The easiest thing is smoke bomb

[vestal wren]

or they just give rogue something like smoke bomb

[cobalt pelican]

no lol

smoke bomb is by far the most complex thing to add

the easiest thing is a basic crit aura or something

[vestal wren]

not if its just... darkness in white

[viscid spear]

It's just AMZ for physical, wym

[thorny pond]

white out lol

[whole mason]

com'on, crite aura is feral's thing.

[vestal wren]

funnily enough it seemed almost like the reason we lost smoke bomb was the introduction of dh

^^

[whole mason]

oh, dh's smoke

[thorny pond]

We all sacrificed for DH to rise

some gave me

[cobalt pelican]

amz is already meta warping and design restricting

[thorny pond]

more*

[cobalt pelican]

why would 'just add physical amz lol' be a good solution

[vestal wren]

i mean dh darkness looks like it would overlap with rogue smoke bomb a lo

*lot

[thorny pond]

The problem they have is if they add an aura, now M+ rogue is even more mandatory

[vestal wren]

but its not as clear as with mesomorph that was simply purge from wl

[viscid spear]

Just reminiscing when we had utility

[main blaze]

fuu you have to make the lore argument that smoke bomb is more of class fantasy than darkness.

thats how we get it back

[vestal wren]

to be fair, i think lore is all over the place

and blizz still rides on the lagacies of wc3 lore

[viscid spear]

Korthia has a lot of beans

[whole mason]

I'd like to see some utility from poison or TotT

[viscid spear]

Rogue fart, everyone stack!

[violet hemlock]

but they added shiv utility wdym

[main blaze]

Yeah I agree Lament, I think you can add a lot to TotT

[whole mason]

The new shiv thing is not effective on boss right?

[slender berry]

hey we have numbing poison and wound poison in case the boss heals himself

[viscid spear]

Are there going to be a lot of Enrage adds in Sanctum?

[drifting cloud]

Like id need to be insanely good to swing it into another direction not sure how you cant grasp that

Selis guils got hof without a dk and monk debuff

Dh mage buff and 1 lock are 2tiers better than all the other things

[vestal wren]

sry to scatter your dreams

but the monk debuff isn't that good

[gusty mirage]

idk 5% free damage is kinda nice

[vestal wren]

thats the point oxi

its not even close to 5%

[drifting cloud]

And if you think rogue is just gonna get something of that magnitude randonly in the middle of xpac youre just delusional

Some potato darkneas isnt gonna do much

[vestal wren]

the only class in the game that gets near full benefit from it is warrior.
rogue has more a 30-50% share on magic damage

[violet hemlock]

even outlaw?

[vestal wren]

possibly slightly lower on outlaw

[whole mason]

I remember in 7.2 a dev interview said rogue's utility is survivability.

[cobalt pelican]

it's true to some extent

[violet hemlock]

ye cloak is cool till u realise half the other classes have a better cloak

[vestal wren]

so if you brought a rogue that is already like 5-10% lower in output than a ranged class

[mighty owl]

definitely true in 7.2

[cobalt pelican]

i mean

[vestal wren]

you buffed it by 2.5%

[whole mason]

However nowadays the cloak is kind of joke in raid.

[vestal wren]

i hope you get the idea

[cobalt pelican]

we have feint cloak cheat vial

it's not like cloak is our only ability

[vestal wren]

its only worth to bring a monk if melee is rly ahead in dps

[cobalt pelican]

sure some of those spells are very dependant on design but

they're very good

[vestal wren]

and only if you have enough physical dps sources

[violet hemlock]

sure feint is really powerful but mythic abilities are tuned to either kill u or not kill u

[whole mason]

vial got nerfed like hell if compared to 7.x

[vestal wren]

and there is 0 downside to cut down on physical dps

(for now, 9.1 could be diffrent)

[whole mason]

the same nerf on feint has been applied. Thus, id like to say the utility of survivability is not so true now

[cobalt pelican]

i mean, it is true

[stray canopy]

i think a big problem is just how much easier it is for lfg's and prog raiders to stack classes that have rlly good raid wide defensives

y bring a rogue when you could get dk/dh

[cobalt pelican]

over the course of progress rogue will basically never die to minor overkill, a woopsie doopsie or whatever

you can cheat massacres like

how is that not good

[violet hemlock]

so ur saying a rogue is allowed to be bad ooh now that makes it food

good*

[stray canopy]

rogue can save himself

[cobalt pelican]

i mean yes

[stray canopy]

where other classes can save raids

[cobalt pelican]

that's the entire point of surivability as a utility

[stray canopy]

and do as much dmg

[violet hemlock]

Well there are so many fights I never have to press any of those buttons

and often chesat is up by the end of a fight

[drifting cloud]

I like how player skill and availabilty is always ignored in these pointless discussions im sure you week20 ce guild has perfect roster and youre only benched because of class color couldnt be anything else

[whole mason]

The problem of cheat is that you cannot apply the cheat to other people to reduce the number of tries you need.

[vestal wren]

rogue survivability spell is a mixed bag

it can be good if it works, its bad if it doesent

e.g. cheat death is great but blizz can easy make it not good by having frequent periodic damage

feint can be insane, but you don't know if it works on a spell till you test it

[violet hemlock]

the 90% dr does kinda combat perdiodic dmg

[drifting cloud]

Then you got top20 guilds that have been running historically subpar tank and healer classes weird how it still works

[vestal wren]

cloak can be incredibly useful to cheese something, but only if blizz allows it to work on any relevant thing

this is why rogue is so good in m+

you can use cloak/feint on nearly everything

[violet hemlock]

cloak is soo good intop prides

better than block or turtle

[vestal wren]

thats why rogue was bad in cn

you didn't rly get anything from rogues utility

and the damage of rogue was... mediocre

literally bringing any of the ranged specs would do more damage and in worse case bring the same benefits

this is why limit/echo did decide to not bring a rogue at all

its always good to keep in mind that the the classes/specs heavily depend on the raid design

[drifting cloud]

They also didnt bring shadow priests remember that

[violet hemlock]

arent spriest kinda stat dependant

[vestal wren]

they also didn't bring wl

when wl was busted

for a reason that now kinda backslashes on simc

[drifting cloud]

They had wls just not on slg

Other than the 1 req ofc

[vestal wren]

warlocks struggle heavily with tcs it seems

so it would be rly nice if they had more people step up and help

[south oak]

tcs?

[vestal wren]

theorycrafters

[south oak]

i see ty

[vestal wren]

basically people who do math or optimize the robot to play well

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/pull/5924

[south oak]

the ones in here seem really great! 😄

[vestal wren]

somone did step up for demo and they suddenly got a iirc 13% increase in pure st performance

just for reference, most improvements on rogue are under 1% in impact mostly less than .5%

[frigid forge]

guys from what haste is should be using deeper strat?

[cobalt pelican]

maybe we should just kill all of our tcs

so we look bad on simc

start an uprising

[gusty mirage]

whenever topgear suggests it

[vestal wren]

(ofc improvements are higher for new systems, but this was on a 7 month old apl with optimizations)

simming is the best option for talent evaluation

[whole mason]

I dont thinks blz would like to do major changes to rogue any more. just looking at the aura buffed on sins.

[spice spire]

[whole mason]

or they dont have time for this

[safe barn]

Sub will be nerfed

Not sub itself but the kyrian

[spice spire]

51%? Nah we’re going to the moon BABY

[vestal wren]

i have no idea how much time they will spend on buffing/nerfing stuff

if we go from the dev interview the plan is to have weekly or in worst case bi weekly balance patches that mainly bring underperformers in line

[gusty mirage]

[frigid kestrel]

They did that w while back and it worked decently

[fallen arch]

So that people can even play Survival

[gusty mirage]

don't expose me like that

[fallen arch]

Yikes

[frigid kestrel]

Cant remember what patch and X[ac tho

[fallen arch]

Imagine having sub rogues in the raid

[vestal wren]

tbh

[frigid kestrel]

Are they still bad? I heard they got buffs and that Polearm is decent for them .... but thats what i heard

[vestal wren]

if they are capable to re-evaluate fast enough

[fallen arch]

No clue, just never ever see em in any type of content

[vestal wren]

its possible that we could see a very good balance

[gusty mirage]

It's mostly the fact that melee spots are limited, the utility they bring can be brought by a ranged hunter, and hunters are notoriously squishy so putting them in melee range is pepega

[fallen arch]

Maybe once in an m+, 226 ilvl an pulling 3,5k overall. Poor fellah

[gusty mirage]

their damage profile has been fine in SL

[vestal wren]

but given their current struggle with release dates/balancing/etc i don't have high hopes

[fallen arch]

Not to mention the fact that hunters are inherently stupid

[gusty mirage]

it's just why bring a survival when you can bring in a mm or bm hunter

[frigid kestrel]

Ahh so people aint worried about that dam dam

[gusty mirage]

it's a hunter that gets punished harder by mechanics

as opposed to BM hunter

where you could AFK and still do the like 70% of your damage

because its all pets

[fallen arch]

Yeah thats what any hunter will say about rogue: ‘it’s 70% melee’

[spice spire]

BM hunter, the true Netflix spec

With sin right behind 🙂

[fallen arch]

What about frost mage

Spam 1

[safe barn]

In a cleave situation? I dont think so

[spice spire]

They have to make sure they can’t move

Truly unlucky

[fallen arch]

And occasional frozen orb

[spice spire]

In raid

[gusty mirage]

it's even better in m+

"ice lance x 500"

[fallen arch]

Yeah, pump a blizzard on top and press lance

But you could say something like that about any spec. Except Outlaw. Nightmares about that rotation

[spice spire]

“Why is ice lance 50%+ of your damage?”

[pliant nest]

i always use shiv on cd right? even if i need to refresh rupture right after?

[limber lion]

@gusty mirage

[balmy condor]

yes

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-body-slam-wrestling-slam-it-gif-16941740

[pliant nest]

k thanks

[grim jay]

boy that cat one is adorable

[viscid spear]

This is going to be a long weekend, grinding Venthyr Renown.

[thorny pond]

Fun!!

[viscid spear]

What Renown lvl is Nadja's first new tier?

[slender berry]

you mean the third potency?

43

[indigo mulch]

We necro bois prob go sbs conduit and wellplaced steel right? 😮

[grim jay]

[winged basin]

is there a proper way to use the PF ability as a necrolord? you just fleshcraft on cd? not really sure how their shit works in there

[fleet whale]

damn the sub name color actually mathces quite well with the SBS icon lol

[final sky]

what talents should I be using in raid?

[final sky]

ty

[limber lion]

Yes, just use it on cooldown, preferably during downtime

If you know a boss is about to phase and you can't hit him, it's the perfect moment to pop Fleshcraft

[hollow river]

When you kill the red slimes that leave a sanguine looking puddle on the floor, you stand in it and channel fleshcraft. This will give you and nearby party members buff.

[charred wraith]

nah, fleshcraft just needs to be on cd to get the buff so its no use holding it for slimes

[hollow river]

It’s supposed to be on either of the 3 types of slimes

[limber lion]

You don't need to cast it on top

as long as it''s on cd

then you just walk on top of em

[hollow river]

Really

[limber lion]

yes

[hollow river]

Everyone always asks me to cast while standing in them lol yikes

[ancient kraken]

cause they dont know

it was changed a while back

[hollow river]

Apparently

[ancient kraken]

u need to cast in the past

[hollow river]

Oo

[ancient kraken]

but it was stupid to hold for that

thats when bliz changed that

[fierce haven]

what does the first sentence of that pin mean

having a smooth brain moment

[frosty cedar]

obedience is the venthyr legendary

[fierce haven]

ah ok

[craggy oak]

What does it do

[strange python]

makes flag give u vers stacks and reduces flag cd based on cp spent

[balmy condor]

your flagelattions are more common

and also do more things

[gusty mirage]

currently swimming in the basement at my office right now

[limber lion]

[green obsidian]

am i the only one that cant allways go to 30 stacks of flag as sin?

[balmy condor]

no, that's very normal

anywhere from 20-25 is fairly normal

[south oak]

Is there a way of muting everything except pins?

[viscid spear]

Mash them buttons harder

[green obsidian]

and obedience is better than doomblade even getting 20 to 25 stacks?

[viscid spear]

I think that was asked before, and the response was wait for sims

[timid talon]

where are the sims that the new pin is referring to?

[green obsidian]

ah ok sorry then

[balmy condor]

They are referring to future sims

[vestal wren]

pls be patient

sims probably need to be re-run multiple times in the near future

[winged basin]

ty

[ember jay]

no stream sims?? why did I sub

[vestal wren]

9.1 release can have a lot of suprises, balance patches might happen

[balmy condor]

Soon

[fleet whale]

it's prolly a good thing sims aren't up yet

or else we would be getting 100s of 9.1 class tier list vids

[thorny rampart]

tier lists

[sturdy merlin]

@balmy condor Are you the only man in charge of sims rn or there is some theorycrafters helping you ?

[balmy condor]

As opposed to the 100s of 9.1 class tier list vids we’re getting

[proper sage]

the only tier list you need

is the current world record by undad

[thorny rampart]

cheat death is definitely S tier

[fleet whale]

nah, cheat death doesn't work all the time

that takes it out of s tier

solid a tier though

[tulip nacelle]

did he beat growl?

[balmy condor]

Oh no, there’s a bunch of theorycrafters, kojiyama and mystler are actual simcraft devs, fuu looks at sub, vaughn looks at outlaw, solo dabbles in outlaw stuff, guy does the pins in outlaw usually

So there’s really like maybe 6 or so of us

[vestal wren]

i do sin/outlaw too infrequently

[teal bloom]

Whispyr tier list speed run world recond attempt when?

[sturdy merlin]

Alright keep it up y’all great work

[vestal wren]

rogue tier list?

should be fairly fast

sub >= sin > outlaw in raid

[dusty garden]

Yo is there any info on where to craft differet legendaries in 9.1? Looking to pre buy som r4 bases

[steep reef]

hey...

how’s everyone today

[balmy condor]

Outlaw SSS tier
Sin A+
Sub F- requires uptime unplayable

[limber lion]

[timid talon]

and just like that everyone in this channel is now considering rerolling

[steep reef]

can you pin that please

[vestal wren]

Sub F- requires uptime unplayable
👉 🚪

[loud light]

sub gets buffed and the people that love sub just get insufferable

nerf it forever

[steep reef]

sub rogues are the best kind of rogues tho

[balmy condor]

Doom cloak
Zold leg
Obedience cloak
Finality cloak
Kyrian lego on waist
Ma on Ring
Celerity on ring
Uhhh greenskin on belt
….what else… akaari on neck

[dusty garden]

thanks whispyr ur the man

[vestal wren]

i advice everyone to wait for legendary craft to at least normal/heroic week

[viscid spear]

I refuse to be Outlaw

[vestal wren]

you can buy/collect regents in advanced ofc

[strange python]

is Whispyrs tier list for raids or M+ ? 😄

[vestal wren]

its wrong for both ^^

[balmy condor]

For the feeling of success

[strange python]

noice

[dusty garden]

will do

[strange python]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vestal wren]

i haven't updated that for 9.1

so its outdated

[south belfry]

You are outdated

[teal bloom]

[gusty mirage]

damn that's the new "ok boomer"

[sturdy merlin]

What’s the Defias Brotherhood role here ?

Afaik it’s a server name

[cobalt pelican]

patreons

or donators

or some shit

[limber lion]

Yes, they are patrons

$5 a month

[gusty mirage]

or more

I offered Stjern my firstborn child for my defias role

[vestal wren]

its patreon, all you get from it is a red rank more or less

[gusty mirage]

and a secret channel

[vestal wren]

yes, but the secret channel is sadly rather... inactive

[tulip nacelle]

checks out

[gusty mirage]

we just need more red boys

[sturdy merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/frodo-keep-your-secrets-alright-then-lotr-gif-12907121

[slow helm]

is our immunity gonna be usefull in the new raid? 🙂

[vestal wren]

hard to predict

[polar cape]

“May be”

[vestal wren]

mythic isn't out

[vestal wren]

not sure if its a subtle hint for me to finally update my spreadsheet

[neon cloak]

Pin that 😄

[limber lion]

No

[balmy condor]

Fine you pin it then

Needy smh

[slow helm]

so our immunity is not even gonna be usefull on the first boss either?

[gusty mirage]

^

[neon cloak]

raid wise? or m+

[vestal wren]

he was meming

[gusty mirage]

that was tongue in cheek

[balmy condor]

Issa joke

[neon cloak]

😦

i am way sensitive to accept that

[steel ridge]

whisp said outlaw gud, so me outlaw again

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

phew

it was getting stressful answering so many questions in here

[steel ridge]

yelluw

[oak sky]

We are all sinners

[placid cobalt]

is there any words on forms of renown catchup if we wanna change covenant? they said that it'd be easy at patch start but so far i havent seen anything anywhere about it

[oak sky]

Tbh its been easy to catchup renown the whole time

[steel ridge]

whats the fotm now? where are we flocking to?

somehow it changes every day lately

[oak sky]

Idk if theyre changing catchup tho

[placid cobalt]

@steel ridge afaik there was a bug that was making venthyr leggo sim less that it should, which prolly means that sub has an additional gain over assa when it's all fixed, feel free to correct me if im wrong

[steel ridge]

i´d like that

mass flagellation

[placid cobalt]

it will most likely boil down to wether sub damage is high enough to compensate for the innate assa advantage in real life scenarios where mechanics make you loose uptime and dmg

like if it ends up being 200-300 dps more on sims, i highly doubt it will see much play, but who knows really

[shy dust]

Unless of course

The encounter needs damage on a timer that assa can’t bring or would lose too much damage to bring

Having a 1 min burst cooldown is strong

[steel ridge]

on top of that sin is just alot easier i´d say

[oak sky]

Lot of adds means a lot of dots to keep up

[violet hemlock]

nah sub is soo easy...

[oak sky]

But in general sin is easier on st

[vestal wren]

everything is easy and hard at the same time

[placid cobalt]

sin is easier to play, it's less reliant on uptime, and perform better than sub on 2 or 3 targets

[oak sky]

Schroedingers difficulty

[vestal wren]

playing at the highest level of play is always hard

wow is probably some more tolerant but its still not easy

[steel ridge]

thats for sure

[placid cobalt]

like personally i find assa extremely more forgiving

both rotation wise and in terms of being targeted by mechanics and such

[oak sky]

Unless its during vendetta or shiv

[vestal wren]

assassination is more error prone than subtlety

but rogue is in general not the easiest melee spec to play

but it also rarely matters

[oak sky]

What would that be like arms warr or paladin?

[steel ridge]

demon hunter

[vestal wren]

harder/easier just doesen't quantify for anything

[oak sky]

Oh yeah 4 button spec

Yeah i just play whats fun difficulty doesnt matter

[placid cobalt]

i mean, it's not about being "harder" from a rotation standpoint, it's more about having less crucial moments where you need 100% boss uptime

[vestal wren]

its not a metric that is helpful, just something people want to use to feel better/worse.
every spec in wow can be played to higher extend and has options to maximize

[placid cobalt]

imagine situations where you press blade dance and get targeted by something and have to leave melee, u basically rip your parse

no such thing happens with assa, at least in my personal exprience

[vestal wren]

you can use vendetta just before a target dies/becomes invuln

[placid cobalt]

yeah but thats a mistake

it's not out of your control

[vestal wren]

you always have mistakes you can make

[placid cobalt]

pressing dance and being targeted by ability is not a mistake

it's just the way it is

[vestal wren]

rly depends

[placid cobalt]

ofc it's all subjective

[oak sky]

Every class has a window when mechanics fuck their parse

[placid cobalt]

but it's objectively true that sin has less reliance on uptime on target than sub

[oak sky]

Yes

[placid cobalt]

like take xymox

personally i could parse 91 on that boss while seed carrying as sin, with sub i could never go above 50 when doing seed it's just no way

maybe a bad example but it's really the point

[proven moth]

Sub gets all hype but it's nerfed in a week so why bother

[oak sky]

It is for sure less reliable but leaving during a cd would still fuck your parse

As sin

[placid cobalt]

i mean like, in order for sub to be better than sin it need a reasonable numerical advantage

because everything else equal sin is just more versatile

[oak sky]

Or be on a nice patchwerk boss

[ashen urchin]

every once in a while sub ends up actually being played. like legion and the end of warlords

[oak sky]

Like maybe with a smaller dps increase you could play sub on i think its guardian? This raid

[ashen urchin]

does seem rare though

[placid cobalt]

the main issue i see with sub is that you need ventyr, and if you play keys you'd rather necro for obvious reasons

so the point is making a covenant choice in the offchance that sub is actually good, or playing necro and being fine for sin and outlaw both

[oak sky]

Cant you just go kyrian if you want to multispec outlaw

[gusty mirage]

yes

[oak sky]

That kinda screws your sin but if you want sub for st you dont need sin

[placid cobalt]

you can but then what about assa?

[gusty mirage]

then you're just sad

[placid cobalt]

the problem is, we don't know if sin or sub will be better, and thats the whole point XD

[gusty mirage]

necro is probably the happy medium for all 3

well so is fae, so you can be sad as all 3 specs

[placid cobalt]

i dont think u ever play sub outisde of pure ST scenarios in raid, and sub necro just sicks

sims like 600 dps below ventyr

[gusty mirage]

sub in m+ will be great

it's going to do a lot of damage

and keep up with outlaw's damage

[oak sky]

Yeah i might need to try it if i go back venthyr later in the tier

[ashen urchin]

ive heard that a lot going into this xpac and it didnt pan out but it would be interesting

[placid cobalt]

well again, we are basing ourselves on preliminary sims

which is the issue really

im currently playing necrolord, which will work unless sub is bis in raid

[gloomy knoll]

[placid cobalt]

perfect solution would be to cap both necro and venth and then see whatsup 😄

[gusty mirage]

imagine not starting out the expac as venthyr and suffering through the terrible pre-9.0.5 flagellation

[dim temple]

what is Obedience ? sorry i just looked at the pins

[gusty mirage]

new venthyr legendary

[dim temple]

ooh

so back to vent?

[placid cobalt]

i started NF and went necro, now im considering wether is worth to cap ventyhir just in case sub is actually busted

[oak sky]

@gusty mirage i suffered with you

[dim temple]

I missing Kyrian then i have all them at reown 40

[oak sky]

Recasting flag was the worst feeling

[gusty mirage]

that was the result of it not even being present in the game for like 90% of beta

[oak sky]

Also it doing no damage

And it giving you maximum 15% haste

[dim temple]

Do we know how much Obedience and Vent will be is it 200dps more or?

[gusty mirage]

papa @balmy condor 's sims show a 5% gain from the pins I believe (at least that's what @vestal wren said)

[dim temple]

ooh

[gusty mirage]

https://www.twitch.tv/whispyrttv check em out in real time :3

he's doing god's work rn

[dim temple]

thanks mate i will do

[vestal wren]

ye

[cobalt pelican]

say it ain't so man

[steel ridge]

tea boi bis

[topaz sparrow]

teaaa time boiss

[oak sky]

500 dps

[limber lion]

So, any Venthyr boys?

[steel ridge]

[viscid spear]

I've been NF since the start but really wanted to be Venthyr

[gusty mirage]

already at 40 renown

most of the covenant is maxed out

we're GAMING boys

[steel ridge]

i am interested what my fellow rogue who is nf will do come first raid day

[oak sky]

Yeah i have venthyr maxed but im necro currently

[gusty mirage]

cry

prolly

[viscid spear]

So I'll be building my Renown up this weekend

[steel ridge]

probably yeah

[shy dust]

Imagine not being venthyr

Necro shills

[oak sky]

Wait are we back to venthyr now lol

[steel ridge]

but i need to assert my superiority again, so good for me

[viscid spear]

I'll be going Venthyr

[cobalt pelican]

i don't WANNA

[shy dust]

Plode

Embrace Flag

[oak sky]

And i have to craft obedience

And doomblade on back potentially

[cobalt pelican]

the worst part is i gave up on venthyr and left it at 36 renown

[viscid spear]

shh, no tears. Only vampires.

[cobalt pelican]

pepelaff

[woeful juniper]

here we go

[oak sky]

I was vampire all 9.0

Im prepped

I just need to know if its worth going for the raid

[viscid spear]

I got sick of the hippie tree fairies

[limber lion]

I'm a firm believer in Necrolord

[viscid spear]

I'll make what Sylvanas did look like child's play

[scenic meteor]

wait is everyone switching back to venthyr? lol

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

But Venthyr stonks

are a bit high atm

[fleet anchor]

Keep in mind, this is a much bigger gain for Sub than Assassination because Assassination was already using Doomblade which was better than Obedience

[scenic meteor]

what did i miss? is it the venth leggo?

[fleet anchor]

Sub was already using Obedience in their BiS profiles

So this was a direct gain for them

[limber lion]

Yep, that's true.

Good shoutout

[fleet anchor]

Assassination only will get partial gain from this

For Sub it's kinda ridiculous tbh

[shy dust]

I mean from the sim Whispyr showed

Obedience > doomblade

[fleet anchor]

Yes but what I mean is that for Sub it was just getting the flat full increase from the change

[limber lion]

Yeh it'll definitely be the best legendary for Venthyr

[fleet anchor]

For Assassination Obedience was previously behind Doomblade

[shy dust]

I see

[viscid spear]

BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD
PUMP MORE THROUGH MY VEINS

[fleet anchor]

So it only gets part of the gain

[scenic meteor]

damn, well i have both necro and venth renown 40 so its ok

[fleet anchor]

I think honestly Obedience is really overtuned but we'll see

[limber lion]

Yeh definitely looks like it

I'm staying Necro until mythic week and take make my decision.

No need to do anything too hastily.

[gusty mirage]

seems to be that way tbh

[scenic meteor]

when is mythic week?

[viscid spear]

Yeah, I'm worried it'll be put down.
So I'll stick to my Mutilate bleed

[scenic meteor]

2 weeks after 9.1?

[gusty mirage]

july 14th I think

[shy dust]

Sub gets a 10% lego and now it’s overtuned

Reparations for 9.0

[placid cobalt]

@limber lion i was thinking the same but ive no renown as venthyr so it's kinda of a mess i think to start from 1 on mythic week

[slow marsh]

Personally I feel like if you're swapping venth to optimize for
ST a bit more you may as well also swap to sub

[scenic meteor]

wait so do people finish heroic by then or do they skip to mythic? insane

[fleet anchor]

Let's wait until @outer lotus breaks Obedience in half with his mystical Dreadblades build for Outlaw and gets it nerfed and the entire Rogue Venthyr community will be in shambles 🤣

[limber lion]

It'll take a few days to get it back up, no worries mate.

[gusty mirage]

not enough for how dirty blizz treated sub

[indigo mulch]

pls 😦

Necro is just so much more fun to play around with though 😢 I don't like the venthyr ability D:

[placid cobalt]

@limber lion like im thinking swap now, get first half on quest done to go back necro, farm renown this and next week where there is nothing to do anyway, have 40 renown on both when raid opens up

[indigo mulch]

But numbers are numbers i guess.

[fleet anchor]

I mean if Blizzard wants to buff a lot of the other Rogue legendaries that would be fine, but the reality is having a legendary that much better than every other option just forces a Covenant 100% which is really bad.

[scenic meteor]

play necro then 🙂

[sturdy merlin]

Do we know if the catchup system coming for 9.1 will work for renown past 40 ?

Might be a dumb question

[shy dust]

Oh I understand that

[scenic meteor]

well its not catch up then, prob not

[shy dust]

Would have been much better if it was a baseline lego

Like rotten

[fleet anchor]

On one hand Blizzard is like "play all the Covenants" then a few months later they come out with an item that is like "Play one Covenant or die" 😛

Oh btw always socket Lashing Scars too since that is also OP

Who needs decisions? 😄

[scenic meteor]

wait how far ahead is obedience to doomblade?

[indigo mulch]

I mean, everyone knew that. Everyone but the person whos calling the shots over at blizzard did.

[fleet anchor]

I'm working on the Emeni APL now

[final sky]

i got 49 parses on my first raid boss as a 197, thats pretty good right

[oak sky]

When i get back the first thing ill do is start the swap quest to venthyr

[sturdy merlin]

For exemple if i stick to necro for 5 weeks and then venth pops off for whatever reason i’d need to go back to 40 renown on venth, catchup past 40 would be needed in that situation

[slow marsh]

Yes catch-up will be a thing next patch too

[cobalt pelican]

even last patch you could get to max renown on a given covenant in a week if you ordered things properly

[scenic meteor]

ah right, maybe

[cobalt pelican]

you'd only get stuck if you did weeklies first

[fleet anchor]

I'm pretty sure I'm sticking Necro personally though

[limber lion]

It literally takes 1-2 days currently

Like, it's not an issue

[placid cobalt]

any word on how much obedience sims for assa?

[limber lion]

go look at Whispyr's stream

[cobalt pelican]

it's a lot easier when there's 11 guaranteed renown, if people are swapping around it's.. 3

[indigo mulch]

I mean

[placid cobalt]

will do

[indigo mulch]

If obedience is the best for every single spec i honestly doubt blizzard will leave it as it is.

[cobalt pelican]

they probably won't but it's more a question of how immediately it gets changed

[fleet anchor]

Once all these Soulbind changes are in

[limber lion]

Necro is a safe pick

[cobalt pelican]

if it stands when mythic goes live

[fleet anchor]

I'm sure Mystler will run his full combinator (literally every single combo of everything) again

And we'll see 😛

[limber lion]

That sounds nutty

[fleet anchor]

Right now there's still some stuff WIP

[indigo mulch]

I'd say mythic week. :p

[limber lion]

Will you be posting the results somewhere where they're available or?

[cobalt pelican]

prolly just on hd

[fleet anchor]

He may post the CSVs, not sure. It's mostly for HD and we can summarize but yeah

[slender berry]

i hope not literally because that would be millions

[limber lion]

Yeh, that's fine

[fleet anchor]

It uses a pruning approach

With incremental error margins

Spreadsheet is boiled down to the top 2500 or so

[slender berry]

thats pretty

[steel ridge]

as if blizzard gives a flying fuck about sims

if they did, sin wouldnt have needed 3 buffs

[cobalt pelican]

??

questionable take

[steel ridge]

it was well known before 9.0 even launched that sin was undertuned af

[cobalt pelican]

not literally balancing purely based on sims and not caring about them aren't the only options

[fleet anchor]

I think Blizzard will care if all 3 Rogue specs go 100% Venthyr after their big 9.0.5 push to try to balance the Covenants 🤣

[steel ridge]

thats more likely, they will go off their own statistics

[plucky sluice]

are there already BIS lists for 9.1 for rogues?

[steel ridge]

blizz is not gonna nerf just because ravenholdts sims say so

[limber lion]

No, and won't be.

[cobalt pelican]

yeah kyrian bis you get an owl that you can call ipadipos

invest now

[steel ridge]

i hated that owl

[odd hazel]

Ban nameless

No kyrian around here

[plucky sluice]

oh ok - just got one from DK so i wanted to ask @limber lion another question - what does the new pinned message mean? necro/venth nerfed?

[odd hazel]

No kyrian and fae got buffed

[limber lion]

No, they are simming stuff now and Venthyr and Necro look really good.

[fleet anchor]

I will say the same thing I said for 9.0.5

"Wait a few weeks until the dust settles before swapping Covenant or crafting a legendary unless you like pain" 😛

[odd hazel]

I’m just staying venth or necro sin unless sub stays good

[fleet anchor]

a) There's still some things we are researching
b) Blizzard is still changing random stuff on the daily
c) There will be hotfixes after week 1, maybe also after week 2 (Heroic week)

[cobalt pelican]

just play heroic week as necro with doomblade r4 and live your life

[lost mist]

Smart guy here as necrolord with venthyr swap quest ready

[rustic thunder]

same

[plucky sluice]

ah @limber lion ty 🙂 i am rly curios which m+ items we will need

[limber lion]

Anything with high ilvl.

:)

[indigo mulch]

Did whispy finish the necro/venthyr for sin yet?

[limber lion]

Not yet.

[turbid harbor]

we can't even craft obedience until week 3

[fleet anchor]

I'm still working on the APL changes for Emeni so hard to compare them quite yet

[indigo mulch]

Whats the major change for emeni though

[plucky sluice]

i am necro - can go for nf. venth not leveled

[fleet anchor]

Pustules

Needs to have Fleshcraft usage in the APL

[indigo mulch]

Hmn

[cobalt pelican]

is it even know if we get 2 or 3 renown per week yet

if it's actually 2 pustules is so far away

[shy dust]

I think it’s fair to assume 3

Till campaign ends

[true pelican]

might be 2 first week like 9.0

depends on when we get the covenant quests

[limber lion]

Pretty sure they confirmed that you can start the campaign the day 9.1 releases.

It's one of the few things you can actually do that week.

[cerulean nest]

where can I see all the upcoming soulbind traits?

[limber lion]

Wowhead

Just google "9.1 Soulbind calculator"

[gusty mirage]

I hope not

[slender berry]

its not a bis list but you can look at the sims and check out what gear theyre using

[feral shale]

Assa op for start New raid season, with necro 100%

[limber lion]

[cerulean nest]

someone just tell me what to do for the love of god lol

im paralyzed

[gusty mirage]

what's your current cov? necro?

[odd hazel]

I mean necro is a good shot any way you look at it

[cerulean nest]

necro sin

[gusty mirage]

have you been venthyr before?

[forest vigil]

Play whats fun

[cerulean nest]

i have venthyr swap quest done

[odd hazel]

But you can realistically@play ANY of them and be competitive

[crude stirrup]

Necro for me

[limber lion]

In the end these are pretty small things

[gusty mirage]

yeah just sit part 2

and see where things shake up in the next 3 weeks

[cerulean nest]

for sure

[limber lion]

You can honestly play any covenant and do fine in heroic and lower ranked mythic raiding

If you're not pushing for giga parses and giga ranks, just play what you like the most.

[cerulean nest]

right, but we're going into mythic pretty quickly. so I don't want to dawdle too long

[odd hazel]

Unless you’re racing for world first you should be fine

[limber lion]

If you're raiding like 2-3 times a week

Just take it easy

[cerulean nest]

we're definitely not lol, I just dont like feeling behind

[limber lion]

The tier lasts for several months

[cerulean nest]

for sure, i'll relax

[limber lion]

There is no rush

[indigo mulch]

???

I don't wanna be super late with CE like i was with this tier 😐

[fleet anchor]

There is no such thing as BiS, only BiGV 😛

[echo cargo]

You can deffo play Venth or Necro and be totally fine

[cobalt pelican]

swapping from necro to venth = 8 weeks taken off your ce

trust me

[limber lion]

Your covenant choice will very likely not help you with that

Your choice of guild on the other hand...

[fleet anchor]

BiS is "whatever drops first that has the sockets you want" lol

[indigo mulch]

Nah, i'm to bad at the video game to play anywhere else.

[odd hazel]

Your CoV is only like

[grim jay]

@fleet anchor but infexious BiS............

[indigo mulch]

I can barly get purple logs. But i do blame raidleading to why my logs are pretty bad.

[odd hazel]

2-5% of your damage really

You can’t blame raid leading for that

[sonic schooner]

Subterfuge on any boss fight

[feral shale]

But assa with necro bis on New raid, info from one rogue from world first guild

[sonic schooner]

[odd hazel]

Sims will tell the tale, don’t listen to feels

[cobalt pelican]

wow.. insider info!!!

[fleet anchor]

Like let's be honest, BiS for example is 2x Mythic daggers and I would wager the vast majority of Mythic Rogues won't even see 2x Mythic daggers ever lol

[cerulean nest]

are there any decently in-depth rogue-specific guides to SoD out yet? talents/etc.

or is it too early

[odd hazel]

To early

[indigo mulch]

^ so true

[limber lion]

I still don't have a single 233 dagger :')

[grim jay]

same

[fleet anchor]

And that's even with tokens ><

[limber lion]

Yep

Going to be a lot worse in 9.1

[red bloom]

233 is a crutch

[indigo mulch]

Oh well.

[cerulean nest]

oh yeah no more tokens, huh

[limber lion]

jk I'll get it from my first kill and flex my sims here when that happens

[slender berry]

i have 4 233 weapons and all of them are from the vault and not a single token for rogue/warr has dropped on any of our sire kills

rng is scary

[violet hemlock]

😄

[gusty mirage]

you're damn right you will

[feral shale]

If ur guild need from rogue only ST dmg, play sub with kyrian
If u need good rogue with good cleave, where All 2nd part raid have 2-4 targets, muti op

[sonic schooner]

220 daggers gang

[lone wren]

Things will change a lot between now and first couple of weeks of mythic. All this hysteria isn't really relevant. Because 99.9% of us won't be competing for world 1st and have plenty of time to adjust/change conv specs etc

[odd hazel]

There’s no 100% sub will be top just yet

[fleet anchor]

At least Slyv "only" has 4 items on her loot table for us

[odd hazel]

I’ll just get anima all the time

[slender berry]

youre right lets just all unsub what even is the point

[grim jay]

it will prolly be the time where I miss tokens

[gusty mirage]

can't wait to get anima power

[fleet anchor]

But still... if it's 4 items that drop from her, 20% chance of getting an item from personal loot (BLP messing it up notwithstanding), 25% chance of it being the right item.. 5% chance per kill of getting a Dagger

good luck

[limber lion]

Just get it,.

50/50

[cobalt pelican]

1% chance they can't fix it in time for launch and delete it and pretend it never happened

[gusty mirage]

missing a 0 in that Nameless

[lone wren]

I don't ever get any loot, so I'm looking forward to my 50gold from sylv

[fleet anchor]

I have 9 Sire kills right now so I would have only had a 40% chance of getting one Dagger by now 🤣

[grim jay]

either you loot it or you dont, looks like a 50/50

[fleet anchor]

GV increases that a bit

But GV pool is pretty large

[limber lion]

It's pretty massive

Especially if you've killed every boss.

[ancient path]

what did they change to make obedience better?

[fleet anchor]

Big brain, just get benched the entire tier and only come in for the last few bosses

for 1 GV chance

[limber lion]

The sims were missing the extra 12s of Verse. It's fixed now.

[fleet anchor]

but skewed to the last bosses

🤔

[limber lion]

Yuuup

And only reclear on the same bosses

[fleet anchor]

I mean to be perfectly fair to sims... the GAME was missing the extra 12s of Vers

Until Thursday

😛

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's right :p

[gusty mirage]

finished product btw

[fleet anchor]

It still was pretty unclear what was actually intended

Since the lingering buff literally never had Vers on it

Not that it was bugged, it just didn't have any Vers

[limber lion]

The good ol' tooltips still only mention haste

[ancient path]

tbf it wasnt a finished product since it wasnt on live hehe

[fleet anchor]

Initially the ramping buff had Vers on it but it didn't work right. That was clear that was a bug

[echo geyser]

does obedience lego pretty much make flag a 1min cd then u just have 1 use outside of vendetta?

[fleet anchor]

But the lingering buff never had a Vers aura on it until the other day

[limber lion]

Something like that, not exactly 1 min though for Sin.

[gusty mirage]

true

[limber lion]

So when's the patch dropping again?

Oh yeah

In like 3 days

[gusty mirage]

in a month right?

[fleet anchor]

Patch is dropping on the 6th

Tuesday is just for Q2 report 😄

[gusty mirage]

idk how or why blizzard does this shit

why wait months to add stuff to the ptr for people to test

if you're going to have the community do your QA work for you, let us do it

[velvet haven]

the patch is tuesday, the raid is the 6th

from what the blizzard announcement said

[limber lion]

woosh

[gusty mirage]

🌬️

[velvet haven]

woosh? ig i should read back further

[lone wren]

Because it's not ready. Believe it or not game Dev is hard, thousands of ppl are coordinating many different elements. Add to that the work from home adjustments everyone had this make. At least this time around cut them some slack lol

[ancient path]

there's nothing new in the first week so in reality patch comes 6th

[fleet anchor]

I mean more than just the raid. Season 2 starts on the 6th which means M+, GV for next two weeks, raids, PvP, etc. next week are all Season 1

And new dungeon isn't in either next week

[gusty mirage]

I don't need to cut them slack for adding the sylv daggers literally 8 days before release of the patch

[limber lion]

quite a lot of things in reality, but yeah, nothing major content-wise.

[fleet anchor]

So next week is basically nothing related to the patch tbh

Just the Maw stuff

[velvet haven]

oh i c gotcha

[cobalt pelican]

what do you mean

i get to

[velvet haven]

I didin't realize M+ started week 2 as well

[cobalt pelican]

do maw dailies again

WOOOOOOOOO

[gusty mirage]

don't forget the campaign quest @cobalt pelican

[sonic spire]

Wait wat

[cobalt pelican]

omg i can't wait to see what happens next to.. that guy in the necrolord hall with the big statue.. or whatever

[lone wren]

It probably wasn't ready until then though.

[fleet anchor]

Tazavesh not opening until week 2 unfortunately

[gusty mirage]

sucks, don't push out the patch early because you want to show good quarterly numbers then?

[fleet anchor]

Kinda too bad, I wanted to waste time on it next week 😛

[sonic spire]

Waddafugg

[fleet anchor]

Since there's not much else to do

And the ilevel is pretty low

[limber lion]

Yeah, but it's m0 only as well

[sonic spire]

Ya that’s toxic

[limber lion]

So there's not much you can do

You can clear it once and then you're done for the week

:p

[sonic spire]

Guess I’m spending a week hard farming korthia or however I spell it

[fleet anchor]

Hardmode takes 2 weeks unless you use alts so hardmode on Mythic week unless you tryhard with alts

[cobalt pelican]

it's just a season 1 week with korthia dailies

[limber lion]

Yep

[gusty mirage]

If it's not ready it's not ready. Say that. Don't push out the release candidate with some pretty bad bugs

[cobalt pelican]

play keys if you enjoy them, pvp you if you enjoy it whatever

[lone wren]

Patch is already over 3 months late and many ppl are tired of the current game. So I'm not sure. I'd rather have the patch now.

[fleet anchor]

Valor/Conquest/etc. will still be S1 next week and won't reset until week 2 also

[cobalt pelican]

tbh with how little testing some things got i'd rather them just never even attempt to get put on ptr

[gusty mirage]

I get it. But it's just frustrating that after 7 months we get an unpolished product. Like it took you forever to get it out, at least polish it a bit

[lone wren]

That's understandable, but I can tell you swapping over to work from home was really rough in the game industry. It really delayed many many things.

[gusty mirage]

I'm more mad at the guys putting the pressure on the devs than the devs themselves

[viscid spear]

I just don't feel like I'm doing well enough as Night Fae.

[limber lion]

Are you really sure it's the covenant?

And not something else?

Because I highly doubt it to be honest.

[cobalt pelican]

ipadipos will make you happy

[viscid spear]

[rocky pecan]

hast / vers for lego for 9.1 ? or may this change ?

[limber lion]

Haste/Crit is usually a good choice.

Haste/vers is fine.

[rocky pecan]

oh y wanted to say hast crit ><

my bad

thanks ❤️

[sonic schooner]

Mastery everyday

[gusty mirage]

[fleet whale]

Sorry if this a stupid question, but in M+ as assassin, I should run Nadj with three potency conduits?
Lashing Scars, Lethal Poisons, and Katar, that's what i would run?

[limber lion]

In 9.1?

[fleet whale]

yeah I mean for 9.1

[limber lion]

We're not exactly sure yet.

Probably Theotar for m+, but who knows.

[gusty mirage]

I’d wait for the sims to be fully implemented and run a dslice sim. Pre-planning now seems like a dangerous game

[mortal quiver]

Do mythics start dropping the higher ilvl stuff tuesday or a week from Tuesday. I know vault is still a couple weeks but cant really find anything.

[fickle wharf]

How do top rogues get 5+ combo points from each bonespike in p3 sire?

[limber lion]

It's currently bugged on Sire.

[gusty mirage]

The week after

[limber lion]

By using Bonespikes on the adds (the named adds, the cabalists and Remornia), you will get extra combo points from them for the first minute or so of P3.

[gusty mirage]

Next week is just kinda there

[fickle wharf]

sweet thanks

[viscid spear]

So worth going Venthyr this week?

[limber lion]

Yes

If you want

[gusty mirage]

If you’re fae, definitely. If you’re necro, I’d wait and see

[arctic walrus]

This expansion is doing wonders for my fear of commitment

[oak sky]

I committed to venthy then i finally swap necro last week to prep 9.1 and now i might go back lol

Thanks blizz

[teal bloom]

Atleast you have renown ready

[oak sky]

True

[teal bloom]

😦

[gusty breach]

[odd hazel]

Yeah I’m just sitting on the necro switch quest and if it turns out fine I’ll just play sin and sub but if I stay sin I’ll just go necro if it stays the way it is now

[oak sky]

Im gonna sit on the venthyr change quest once i can start it

[upper trout]

can you not

[indigo mulch]

Obediant might be a tad bit to stronk 😄

[odd hazel]

Oof @limber lion

[mortal quiver]

I started as venth went necro like a week ago. My question though is which potency conduit y'all use. When I sim my toon it always says the sbs potency conduit is what I should use

[indigo mulch]

How was necro bait though? 😒

[odd hazel]

Necro you use either Steel or SBS

[dim temple]

as i seen @balmy condor right on twich .. then likey do the quest for going back to ventyr .. so i stay neco but can swith with just turning the quest in

[indigo mulch]

Rip.

Bigboi Koffing coming in with the mute.

[limber lion]

I was watching Dratnos

the one time I look away

[shrewd night]

[limber lion]

[slim jolt]

Everytime I look in this chat I see you typing, and I've looked at all times of the day and night. Please sleep ❤️

[indigo mulch]

Like did someone watch max stream last night?

Was he ACTUALLY meming about survival or was there a hint of truth in there?

[limber lion]

Soon

[oak sky]

Hes memeing

YEAR OF THE SPEAR

[teal bloom]

Meme but survival got nice buffs

[oak sky]

survival would probably have to be recognized as decent for a tier then buffed to be used

[indigo mulch]

I mean.. Survival's aoe is pretty nutty.

[oak sky]

Is that needed for this raid tho?

[lone wren]

Problem with survival is the fact it's melee. It will be great for m+

[indigo mulch]

I don't think there is a single melee spec that does the amount of damage surv does in m+

[oak sky]

Deathspike outlaw

[lone wren]

Yeah it's really good right now

[oak sky]

Oh wait

[teal bloom]

deathspike

[indigo mulch]

[outer lotus]

Who pinged me in this forsaken place

[gusty mirage]

Koji did

[outer lotus]

[nocturne geode]

@outer lotus Koji did

[winged quail]

what's this I'm hearing about new sims and Venthyr being top-tier again?

[viscid spear]

[outer lotus]

Sadly obedience kinda sucks for dreadvlades cuz it desyncs the CD

[winged quail]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[green harbor]

'Your choice is valid and you are beautiful'

Based pin

[lone wren]

My choice may be valid but I'm still not beautiful

[hollow river]

anyone familiar with the slots for obedience

cloak?

[limber lion]

Yes

[hollow river]

hmmm

cloaks went from 20k to 60k in 3 days

[winged quail]

ouch

[hollow river]

i only bought 1 for doomblade

[scenic meteor]

cloaks on my server fell from 22k to 4k lol

there are like 20 on my server for 8k

235

[hollow river]

and finality goes to cloak too doesn't it

[dim temple]

u dont need to buy clocks now

[limber lion]

Everything on cloaks

[sleek sundial]

yo dudes, im necro now, just a little question on our soulbinds, for raind and single targer wise, our bis is heirmir right? with last on the crit gem?

[safe barn]

Cev

[limber lion]

Finality, Obedience, Dashing, Doomy

sup

[dim temple]

only clocks after 9.1 will have the socket

[safe barn]

U sticking with necro?

[keen flint]

So

[limber lion]

Yes.

[hollow river]

wot

[limber lion]

Most likely, like 95% sure.

[keen flint]

I'm necro so Emeni is better than Heimir ? in raid ?

[hollow river]

the crafted base item will have a socket?

[safe barn]

Im with you bud

[limber lion]

No, Heirmir is the best.

[dim temple]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-crafted-eligible-legendaries-get-free-socket-at-runecarver-in-patch-9-1-323060

[keen flint]

Thx

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

@fossil steeplecarver...

[safe barn]

If you change your mind let us know king

[hollow river]

not from AH

[limber lion]

fo sho

[sleek sundial]

@limber lion ty dude! last question is fracture the biss conduit?

[sharp panther]

cloak isn’t eligible

[hollow river]

^^^

[limber lion]

Generally yes, WPS might sim higher if your SF is very low level.

[hollow river]

cloak isn't a socket item

[winged quail]

only get sockets on gear than can already be socketed

[hollow river]

so

[sleek sundial]

my SF is 213

so prob SF it is

[hollow river]

i'm prolly gonna wait anyway since they went up

[limber lion]

Yeh for sure

[hollow river]

hopefully they go back down

[winged quail]

ngl I'm kinda glad Venth is looking better

[hollow river]

but finality :S

[oak sky]

What does it look like sub will play in raid? Obedience?

[hollow river]

most likely

[dim temple]

The new clocks crafter after 9,1 will have a socket the ones on ah will not it seems

[hollow river]

that or kyrian

[oak sky]

Ok

[ember jay]

https://clips.twitch.tv/ResilientReliablePuffinOMGScoots-nPyciZFhwZnyuV5O idk how you can make a choice based on sims done by someone like this...

[hollow river]

cloak doesn't get a socket

[sharp panther]

read the blue post on the link you sent

[hollow river]

wrist, neck, belt etc get sockets

[limber lion]

You will not get a socket on a cloak, not even in 9.1.

[dim temple]

ok

[safe barn]

If anyone still dont know what to play

I recommend start doing the cov quest

So when the patch comes you'll be able to change the cov at the same day

[pale fossil]

https://twitter.com/jpctheman/status/1408887304752488451?s=21

JPC (@jpctheman)

@maximum blame covenant specific legendaries and encounter design. hate the game not the player 😔😔😔

Twitter · Jun 26, 2021, 8:38 PM

Anyone know what he’s talking about here?

[limber lion]

He's just meming.

[pale fossil]

https://twitter.com/jpctheman/status/1408885037148291074?s=21

JPC (@jpctheman)

@ThrockyP new sims, new timings for different fights ;)

Twitter · Jun 26, 2021, 8:29 PM

[dim temple]

can we craft Obedience on cloak?

[pale fossil]

Ah, alright. Didn’t know if we had new info.

[limber lion]

Yes

[dim temple]

thanks ❤️

[limber lion]

[oak sky]

Cant wait for jpc's 3rd tweet when obedience is nerfed

"Last minute deal from the necrolords"

[civic trellis]

XDDD

[grim jay]

if it gets nerfed :^)

[frail fossil]

wait obedience also bis for assa ?

[odd hazel]

It’s good in sims right now for M+

[oak sky]

Im just memeing though i dont know shit venthyr might be better even without the extra obedience damage for prog

[civic trellis]

Is obedience simming more than doomblade?

I missed the sims <.<

ST

[cobalt pelican]

i think with obedience sin and sub are within <1% of each other on single target

sub still has the benefit of higher 1min spikes kinda but ye

[indigo thicket]

anyone have a good link or short write up on the different covenants advantages and disadvantages? havent played rogue in slands yet

[oak sky]

Pins are a good start

[maiden gust]

wheres the obedience sims

[teal bloom]

Pins haven't been updated yet

[scenic meteor]

all up in the air

[maiden gust]

i saw just wondering where the data is

[cobalt pelican]

the sheet linked in the pins is semi updated

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xnorBbwoTyPSzRXjojx4LP (pls do not use this as any basis for anything you do in your life or even take this as serious ty)

[west cove]

we gonna get sims by each renown/week? i know it’s huge work xd

[cobalt pelican]

just sim your own character that point wtf

[slender berry]

you get the 3rd potency like insta and the last trait semi late

thats like the 2 relevant sims you can do

the sims that are being done are with all traits and for the 3rd potency sims you just sim yourself next week

[civic trellis]

Here it comes 😄

[sand sigil]

just for clarification for everyone, i don't use the sims here for making my decision

the max ilv conduit etc sims are irrelevant to me

[misty holly]

The new Venthyr mount is practically unlpayable. It's way too big, gets stuck on doorways. Pretty sure Necro has BIS 9.1 mount.

[sand sigil]

whisp hooks me up w the custom sims 😉

[pale fossil]

👀

[cobalt pelican]

removing a single 3 digit number from each covenant sim

hackerman

[frosty cedar]

venthyr stonks

[uneven hamlet]

100% not biased

[oak sky]

Ooooh

[limber lion]

Don't do any hasty decisions, boys