assassination

[odd hazel]

No

[gusty mirage]

sub in m+ is going to be nutty

[odd hazel]

Don’t go outlaw

[scenic meteor]

^^

[slim dew]

outlaw is brain dead to me

i hated it in bfa

[scenic meteor]

^^^

[gusty mirage]

so if you want to raid as assassination and run sub in m+ or even just have the option of playing assassination in raid, just go venthyr

[odd hazel]

If I’m gonna play anything imma be a ninja or poison people

[gusty mirage]

venthyr is giga for both assassination and sub in raid

and great for sub in m+

[slim dew]

is necro assass bad in raid?

[scenic meteor]

nope its only 50 dps behind venth pretty sure

[gusty mirage]

necro assassination is slightly behind venthyr

but the moment there's a second target it becomes much better

[slim dew]

these are with 9.1 stats right

[red plaza]

Pins are a great source

[scenic meteor]

yep

pins

[gusty mirage]

9.0 and 9.1, ye

[slim dew]

thank you friends i think im going venthyr

[half tartan]

Fastest way is to get a group, and queue into heroic Plaguefall, skip all trash and bosses you can. We were averaging 5-5:30 per run, 50% renown chance until soft cap

[gusty mirage]

plus venthyr assassination isn't TERRIBLE for m+ just nowhere near as good as necro

[hollow river]

Necro sub isn’t that bad in dslice

[gusty mirage]

so if you hate outlaw you're safe going venthyr :3

bonespike doesn't do much for sub because its cleave is donkey dicks

[slim dew]

i just want the option of playing sub too

i love sub too much

[gusty mirage]

yeah then def go venthyr

[scenic meteor]

yeah venthyr

sub is looking good too

[hollow river]

If you’re only playing sub in m+ tho

Necro doesn’t look terrible

[shy dust]

Necro is dead in st though

[hollow river]

Yea I’m wondering about it in cleave tho

Would being necro not help sub have better cleave

[gusty mirage]

doesn't shore up cleave enough to make a difference

[shy dust]

Yes

It would

But

Just go assa if it’s a boss

[hollow river]

Yeah I suppose

[shy dust]

And it’s fine to have a weakness

[hollow river]

I’m probably only going to run sub in m+

[shy dust]

No reason to try to marginally make that weakness better

[hollow river]

Yeah

[shy dust]

It’d be like speccing for burst aoe as assa

You suck at it no matter what

[hollow river]

I don’t see sub living up to sims in st

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

On fights with downtime

[gusty mirage]

I think people overvalue the "sub is bad with downtime" thing

[hollow river]

If you need burst sure it’s best choice

[gusty mirage]

I mean bleeds and deadly eventually fall off for assassination too

[hollow river]

True

[thorny pond]

Sin shines in it's simplicity

We have small variance pull to pull and our CDs are easy to map around the fight

[hollow river]

I’m just thinking out loud ya know

[thorny pond]

Sure. But sub downtime is a bad hot take

[pallid hollow]

Surely outlaw > sub in m+?

[hollow river]

I like sin and sub

[thorny pond]

Sub can be strong but will be a harder play

[gusty mirage]

neck and neck damage wise

[pallid hollow]

Never played sub

[hollow river]

Sub wins in 6+

[pallid hollow]

Sub hurt my head when i played it to start

[gusty mirage]

outlaw would just win in cleave + having a free hard interrupt w/ gouge

[pallid hollow]

Sin and outlaw so much simpler

[hollow river]

Lol what

Sub is much simpler than sim in m+ o.O

[pallid hollow]

Like just how it felt when i was binding keys xD

[gusty mirage]

wdym ss > bp spam is difficult

[pallid hollow]

I hadnt even looked at sub since tbc!

[hollow river]

Yeah it has a lot of buttons

[gusty mirage]

sub's skill in m+ would be cd management

[pallid hollow]

and i was like wtf are all these buttons

[thorny pond]

garrote on CD rupture all the things, keep CT up, envenom for buff and SnD

FoK your tank for pulling so small

[pallid hollow]

Yeah sin is fine

[gusty mirage]

^ fok the tank

[hollow river]

Lol

[pallid hollow]

tell him to fok off?

[gusty mirage]

if he's pulling less than 4 mobs

absolutely

he just made you have to push more buttons for damage

[scenic meteor]

damn sub

[neon cloak]

lets all show Dratnos why he is wrong !!!!

[scenic meteor]

fire mage where?

[thorny pond]

shit take from a one trick pony

[hollow river]

Fucking tier lists....

[odd hazel]

Imagine listening to tier lists

[brazen rampart]

tier list andies

[scenic meteor]

i like seeing them 🙂

[hollow river]

But the masses follow them

[scenic meteor]

do they take all the sims to come to this decision?

[thorny pond]

Tier lists sell ad clicks

[pallid hollow]

Can you see now why i cant choose between ret and sin? xD

[thorny pond]

FeelyCraft

[odd hazel]

Dratnos is a joke

[brazen rampart]

nah it's just the guy's opinion

[scenic meteor]

sin 🙂

what so icyveins make this tier list up? ;p

[thorny pond]

Clicks

[gusty mirage]

pretty much

that's every tier list

[pallid hollow]

prot pala fun in m+ though xD

[gusty mirage]

look at some numbers

pull your own thoughts outta yer ass

throw em on a tier list

[pallid hollow]

and ret is smashy at times if tuning is right

[thorny pond]

Dratnos has sub bottom raid tier and icy has it top rogue spec

so really

who the fuck cares about tier lists

[gusty mirage]

I'm going to make my own tier list

[hollow river]

Fury warrior?? Lmaoo

[gusty mirage]

get your popcorn ready boys

[brazen rampart]

going for the speedrun? @gusty mirage

[thorny pond]

Fury is gonna have a good tier though ffiw

[scenic meteor]

[gusty mirage]

Spoiler: Uninstall & Unsub are going to be S tier

[oak sky]

Well heres a thought on dratnos

[pallid hollow]

My main thing is 3 dps specs > 1 dps spec. More likely to have a playable rogue spec than ret be useful xD

[thorny pond]

A Tier: Mastery Sin Rogue

[oak sky]

Maybe he put sub bottom before all this shit with them doing huge damage

[hollow river]

Ffiw?

[gusty mirage]

[thorny pond]

fwiw = for what it's worth

[brazen rampart]

S tier: night fae outlaw with the sepsis legendary

[hollow river]

Kk

[oak sky]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

if he didn't release it like a month after the ptr changes went live for sub I'd agree

[thorny pond]

Don't go at Fuu like that

[oak sky]

Sepsis dps loss lego looks wicked

[gusty mirage]

Naguura put together a guide and came in here and asked questions

[oak sky]

I mean i dont really remember people being quite as high on sub even last week

[pliant nest]

a guide on what?

[thorny pond]

Naguura not relying on looks for stream views is a breath of fresh air

[gusty mirage]

I'm not entirely sure, it looked like a cheatsheet of some sort

[thorny pond]

Like I wish all the stream andies would

But then again BDGG and Pieces are classy orgs

[pallid hollow]

Frost DK isnt even on there xD

[gusty mirage]

it takes 2 seconds to go into a class discord and ask for clarification about something you know nothing about

it'd be like me ranking healers and the last two times I've played healer was hpal in 8.3 and priest in Vanilla lol

[oak sky]

The only tier list i want to see is max tier list if he does one to release after WF

[brazen rampart]

so, hpala s tier, priest a tier?

[oak sky]

Oh and undad that shit was funny

[scenic meteor]

last lul

[gusty mirage]

@brazen rampart by process of elimination, absolutely

[brazen rampart]

[pallid hollow]

xD

[gusty mirage]

no idea what spec either because I played some bastard hybrid spec that I thought was good when I was 17

so it's just "priest"

[brazen rampart]

toss a coin to see which spec is A and which B

[gusty mirage]

TRUE

disc B

because why not

there, I pulled a dratnos

[brazen rampart]

disc mains in shambles

[nocturne tide]

really need to designate cutting edge progression and farm tier lists separately

assuming everything right now is aimed at prog

[oak sky]

Did anyone see growls tier list

[thorny pond]

Alright bois. It's been real but I'm pretty sure I am getting banned for profusely swearing at a GM

[pallid hollow]

To be fair when you do listen to anyone they always preface everything with PLAY WHAT YOU LIKE YOU CAN GET AOTC WITH ANYTHING.

[nocturne tide]

yeah for sure

[shy dust]

[brazen rampart]

[oak sky]

You can get CE with anything, however late it is right?

[nocturne tide]

but i think most of the people looking at these lists would ultimately probably play more/care more during the farm period than the race

yeah

[gusty mirage]

I'll miss you fellow soldier

[thorny pond]

[oak sky]

Even some sv parses were around

[nocturne tide]

tier lists dont exist to separate viable from non viable most of the time

[pallid hollow]

Just feels bad when you love a class, get 95+ parses and still do below other classes 50 parses xD

[gusty mirage]

the real issue is when people who aren't pushing tough content are like "LOL WE NEED THIS CLASS TO GET AOTC"

like nah bro you don't

just do the mechanics

[pallid hollow]

Yeah just bring your brain

[nocturne tide]

dont even need it for CE most of the time

[brazen rampart]

RECRUITING FIRE MAGES FOR SLG HEROIC PROG

[thorny pond]

AotC and class stacking kekw

[nocturne tide]

HoF maybe

[oak sky]

I forget who said it

[gusty mirage]

like sure stacking DKs made nathria easier but like.... it was doable without it

[oak sky]

But someone was saying basically you only need a good comp to finish in the first 2 resets

Might have been jpc

[brazen rampart]

it's true

[oak sky]

Sounds about right

[gusty mirage]

yeah, you could get CE with survival hunter if you're good enough at it

[pallid hollow]

community perception is a bad thing

[neon cloak]

what is survival hunter?

[oak sky]

Sv is best aoe melee this tier no cap

[thorny pond]

Limit and Echo could only play non-meta specs and still be #1 and #2 but then every andy would just copy that anyways

[gusty mirage]

@neon cloak the forgotten hunter spec

[nocturne tide]

the single most fun hunter spec by a mile

[neon sequoia]

hey guys do i use ambush in pve ever? or in pvp for that matter?

[gusty mirage]

it hasn't been relevant since like mop lol

[nocturne tide]

legit

[pallid hollow]

we had a guy swap to SV for giggles and he had great fun and did okay numbers

[thorny pond]

Just with blindside procs

[gusty mirage]

literally never unless you're specced into blindside

[pallid hollow]

Not even from stealth?

[gusty mirage]

not even from stealth

[thorny pond]

Nope

[neon sequoia]

okay thank you

[pallid hollow]

garrote instead?

[thorny pond]

Yep

[oak sky]

Mut with ma

[neon sequoia]

even with subterfuge in dungeons?

[scenic meteor]

mutilate

[thorny pond]

Or mutilate/SBS with MA

[neon sequoia]

or pvp?

[thorny pond]

#pvp for their thoughts

[pallid hollow]

muti > ambush?

[gusty mirage]

when subterfuge, you open with garrote

[oak sky]

You triple garrote in m+ with subterfuge

[brazen rampart]

we only fight NPCs in here

[neon sequoia]

okay thank you

[scenic meteor]

not 4?

[oak sky]

Or yeah 4

[scenic meteor]

even if the 4th is not empowered?

[oak sky]

3 are empowered

[thorny pond]

Just don't overwrite a prior one

[pallid hollow]

garrote > rupture? xD

[scenic meteor]

yeah but on 4 targets

[pallid hollow]

Literally never played sin properly

but its fun

[oak sky]

Yeah you do a 4th

[scenic meteor]

garotte builds to rupture

[oak sky]

Or ct

[thorny pond]

CT

[oak sky]

Or snd if its not up

[thorny pond]

CT

CT

[oak sky]

You only need snd the first pull though

[scenic meteor]

CT in single target

[pallid hollow]

rot, rot, rot, rot, ct, build, ruptures etc?

[thorny pond]

CT is single target when you aren't slamming shivs

[oak sky]

Yes

[scenic meteor]

CT but not in shiv window !

[thorny pond]

Yea and keep Rot on CD

[pallid hollow]

ive just been going rot, muti, muti, rup, tab, repeat xD

[oak sky]

Is there really not a shiv emote

[scenic meteor]

lol

[thorny pond]

4 targets you FoK

[brazen rampart]

if you're running zoldyck on p3 sire prog for example, do you refresh CT during rupture then?

[thorny pond]

[brazen rampart]

cause i was doing that when i progged sire

[thorny pond]

class emote is shiv now

[scenic meteor]

garotte, tab, garotte, tab, garotte, tab, garotte - CT then FoK into ruptures

[oak sky]

Oh yeah

True

[brazen rampart]

but that was just on a hunch, didn't know if it was actually better

[thorny pond]

Keep bleeds up

Shiv window you can let CT fall

reapply after shiv

extra CPs env

[pallid hollow]

Will give it a try! Ive been playing outlaw in m+ purely

seemed like it was better

[scenic meteor]

outlaw booo

[brazen rampart]

even with the zoldyck bonus it's still worth dropping ct?

[pallid hollow]

Now people are telling me to learn Sub too

[thorny pond]

Yes

[pallid hollow]

Like what do you think my brain is, useful?

[brazen rampart]

no wonder i got a grey parse on my kill (among other shite mistakes on the kill pull)

[oak sky]

Still better than me

[thorny pond]

Sire parses are P1 dependant

Like if you are going against padders

GL

[oak sky]

Im not ce 😎

[brazen rampart]

are they for sin though? cause you can absolutely slam in p2

[pallid hollow]

Just look at boss damage parses

[scenic meteor]

im getting ready for switching to necro lol

[pallid hollow]

Ugh im doing it now

[brazen rampart]

i guess you can spec into the FoK talent on the last row for the p1 add burst

[pallid hollow]

Fuck the campaign

[thorny pond]

HB is another talent to pad yea

but CT has actual viability for the rest of the fight if you aren't cheeseballing the fight

[oak sky]

That talent looks ao unfun to me

[thorny pond]

Let HB stack to 30 then hit FoK from stealth on 8 targets

It's like heroin

[oak sky]

Like ct is an ability, poison bomb feels super satisfying on a proc, then idk about hb

[limber swallow]

Just FYI, you don't actually need to hold that stuff in your inventory. You can cash out of your covenant by buying cosmetics and then sell them to the new cov when you finish the first quest

[scenic meteor]

oh lol

[brazen rampart]

make sure to buy the cosmetics that only cost anima though

[limber swallow]

correct.

[scenic meteor]

well i literally have free bag space so doesnt matter rn

[limber swallow]

if you've got the space, go for it

[brazen rampart]

if you get those that cost offerings too, you won't be able to sell them back

[limber swallow]

somehow, I never have any damn bag space

[scenic meteor]

what are in your bags? i see streamers with full bags and dont understand

[potent dagger]

Hmmm i've a litle question

[scenic meteor]

i just have a fewspaces with my leggos, flasks, vantus and aurgent

and some food

[limber swallow]

food, feasts, potions, sharpening stones, oils, alternate gear sets (I play both outlaw and assassination)

[potent dagger]

was wondering if there is an haste breakpoint where we want to favor crit

[humble ginkgo]

@safe barn

grats bro

[neon sequoia]

is sub donezo for now?

is assass just bis for pve and pvp

[brazen rampart]

why would it be?

[limber swallow]

sub is really good for anything not cleave.

[neon sequoia]

i just had a few months break and seems everyone is saying ass is better

[limber swallow]

I think my only problem w/playing sub right now is bonespike just doesn't do much for it and I don't wanna go back to venthyr

[safe barn]

what did i do???????

[humble ginkgo]

I was checking huokan discord and idk if its ur gm but he was like talking about his sire kill

I open it and ur in it

I remember u were talking about it

[safe barn]

thanks bro :peepoLove:

thats my first CE

[humble ginkgo]

[brazen rampart]

[safe barn]

i still have a lot to learn but its nice to achieve this kind of stuff

❤️

[humble ginkgo]

same here

[gusty mirage]

congrats king

[oak sky]

Im getting ce this tier

[brazen rampart]

you're lucky your first was on an actually awesome boss

[safe barn]

i would not achieve this stuff if wasnt for you guys

[gusty mirage]

I believe

[brazen rampart]

my first was on n'zoth so i have to cherish that trashfire as some sort of special memory

[oak sky]

Dont worry sylvanas is perfect ill have a great first ce

[limber swallow]

I gotta find a guild that doesn't freaking go on vacation as soon as we get AOTC if I ever wanna get CE

[brazen rampart]

[nimble tartan]

congrats! if you need any tips or tricks u can ask me anytime

[scenic meteor]

my aim is for aotc this patch, im 9/10 heroic rn but not looking likely

[oak sky]

You got thia

This

[scenic meteor]

and you!

[brazen rampart]

for all the homies

[scenic meteor]

CN was my first ever raid so 9/10 is not bad, looking for pugs rn but not getting accepted lul

[nimble tartan]

if u want i know a place that can sell u aotc for like 45k hold

[gusty mirage]

damn I wish my guild still raided

coulda got you aotc ez

[safe barn]

it was my first time raiding mythic

[humble ginkgo]

buying aotc does not feel as good as getting it on your own you know

[scenic meteor]

EU alliance - but thanks lol

i dont want to buy it ;p

[brazen rampart]

you're really better off looking for an AOTC guild or maybe even a casual mythic one if you're up for it

[oak sky]

I need a prayge that a guild falls into my lap so i can do mythic instead of coping for pugs all tier

[brazen rampart]

even if you only got 9/10 now that should be enough to get accepted into one of those

[nimble tartan]

true but they let u play ur character

so u just performing

[scenic meteor]

yeah, just started the game in 9.0.5 so just joined a social guild that did some heroic raiding

[brazen rampart]

[scenic meteor]

yeah hopefully, hard to leave tho, made loads of friends on this guild

[neat pulsar]

try to check wow progress, some guilds recruit here

[gusty mirage]

45k for aotc for a tier that doesn't give you anything for it is kinda pepega

[scenic meteor]

yeah im not spending money for it - esp 45k just for an achievement, if there was a mount tied to it - i would prob pay

[nocturne tide]

how much you think people will charge for mythic sylvy carries with the mount available

[oak sky]

Your friends will probably still play with you even if you leave, but if you care more about being in a guild with them than raiding mythic just keep enjoying it

[brazen rampart]

however much they charged for jaina back in the day i guess

[scenic meteor]

i dont think i want to raid mythic, just curve each patch - im a busy ass student

[humble ginkgo]

yea true

[oak sky]

Yeah i feel that

[scenic meteor]

does mythic sylv drop a mount?

[humble ginkgo]

so you basically just kill it with a good group

[oak sky]

Yeah

[nocturne tide]

dragonhawk remodel or some such

edgelord torghast dragonhawk

[oak sky]

Getting that mount would be pretty cool

[brazen rampart]

you'll have the rest of the expansion to farm it

it's gonna end up like jaina in 8.3 where you'd zerg her down in a minute

[oak sky]

I could farm it all farm if i can find a guild

[brazen rampart]

you got this

[scenic meteor]

@oak sky you will get CE and i will get AOTC

[oak sky]

100%

Ill come back with a juicer rank 1 sylvanas parse and be on limit by the end of the year too

[sonic schooner]

let s make an only rogue aotc free boost group

[scenic meteor]

do limit even got rogues for this patch?

[oak sky]

No idea

[brazen rampart]

are we rotating evasion for tanking?

[neon sequoia]

when do i use sepsis in my rotation?

[sonic schooner]

cant know the roster before the race start 🤷‍♂️

[brazen rampart]

they don't disclose that kinda stuff before prog starts

[neon sequoia]

if i'm nightfae xd

[sonic schooner]

they keepin it secret

[oak sky]

I wouldnt be shocked if they take a rogue but i wouldnt be shocked if they took 0 either

[scenic meteor]

on cooldown pretty sure

[crisp steppe]

why would they not have rogues

[oak sky]

If other classes are bette

[scenic meteor]

they didnt castle nathria but were rogues worse then?

[crisp steppe]

yes

[pliant nest]

they definitely have rogues, but they might not bring them

[sonic schooner]

because not enough trashpack to make shroud worth

[oak sky]

Yeah

[sonic schooner]

[crisp steppe]

they didn't play them

[scenic meteor]

they took like 5 dks

[crisp steppe]

that doesn't mean they don't have them ready to go

[brazen rampart]

other classes might do more

[red bloom]

Trill hasn’t said anything about rogues, but sharkshoes has been very active

[scenic meteor]

yeah ik, they must have most specs ready right?

[crisp steppe]

yes

[oak sky]

Sharkshoes is a raid leader

[brazen rampart]

tho it's more likely they bring one now compared to nathria, cause we were way worse on nathria launch

[red bloom]

Sharkshoes is a good time

[oak sky]

Though he could play in prog if he needs to

[sonic schooner]

hey we did see subrogue on nathria

dont forget

[brazen rampart]

sharkshoes

[oak sky]

Because shark is a man of the people

[sonic schooner]

[red bloom]

Praise be to the daggies

[oak sky]

I hope max is reading this right now

Call someone a bitch

[empty hinge]

Think max is streaming ask him

[scenic meteor]

yeah he is, im watching 🙂

lol i could

[teal bloom]

Sharkshoes is my hero

[oak sky]

I only wish agreon kidneys were so strong

Things have lived an agreon kidney

[scenic meteor]

who is sharkshoes? im rather new

[oak sky]

Max's rogue

[scenic meteor]

oh lol

[neon sequoia]

does anyone know wowhead says this

why 80% ?

[oak sky]

Good for uptimes and stuff i think

[neon sequoia]

i see

[nocturne tide]

max isnt gonna comment on rtwf comp stuff

[oak sky]

Someone else can explain better

[scenic meteor]

where is ceve when you need him lul

[oak sky]

Eu

[scenic meteor]

im eu 🙂

[oak sky]

Cool

[scenic meteor]

tell him to wake up hah

[oak sky]

Oof the tazzy neck is dead

[scenic meteor]

yeah nerfed to the ground

[azure bronze]

I guess it will be still decent for early prog until you get a higher ilvl neck

[kindred rapids]

It's just so that you have energy pooled for shiv

[teal bloom]

Pooling for envenom allows you to do more mutilates during the buff and if you just slam 2 envenoms within small window you'll lose some seconds of envenom buff which leads to lower envenom buff uptime

[teal bluff]

Do I ever use crimson tempest in ST?

Cause I feel like I'm losing envenom uptime by doing so but idk

[teal bloom]

you keep it up it outside shiv windows

[teal bluff]

Ok got it, ty

[whole bluff]

You should use ct in st when there's heavy movement

[teal bluff]

Also I bought 131 daggers of the AH since I didn't have any and it turns out I have 5.24% haste that may be why sin feels so slow to me

[teal bloom]

yeah, Sin is always a slow spec but having low haste makes it even slower

[teal bluff]

Yeah by the time I have all my bleeds set up I have to refresh them again right away because my energy regens so slowly

[potent dagger]

is there an haste breakpoint where crit goes better ?

[brazen rampart]

[potent dagger]

if you had let me finish my explanation you would have understand @brazen rampart

[limber lion]

Then type the entire thing out in a single message

[potent dagger]

so i was about to say : cause i'm currently a 28% crit and 25% haste unbuff and it's still sim haste first

[limber lion]

That's fine

Just follow Top Gear's recommendations

There is no magic haste point where crit gets better

Every profile, every character is different

[brazen rampart]

^

[lean coral]

.

[potent dagger]

what i felt strange is that mastery is still so low , would have guessed it to goes up with item level and amount of secondaries available

[gusty mirage]

hi cutie

[silent tinsel]

Should you pop CDs asap if you use them after second grip? I lose a usage on p3, but the usage I do get on p3 would line up on hero and pot

before it would just be cd's hero a minute later, then cds a minute again

[random fossil]

hello guys, good evening, what secondary stats do we craft on doomblade? thank you in advance

[oak sky]

Crit haste

[random fossil]

crit haste on zoldyck too?

[brazen rampart]

Everywhere I think

[random fossil]

alright, cheers guys

[nimble tartan]

stats are fake tbh

literally never looked at a stat on my gear just put it on

[oak sky]

I just put it on if it sims better

[brazen rampart]

^

[strange silo]

is it worth to use only the good conduits so they get the random upgrade first with the korthia thing or just use them all

[cobalt pelican]

um

[silent tinsel]

Yeah, so CDs are always saved to 4:00, I could use them at 6:00 and have them ready for hero at 8:00 or I can save for 7:00 and use again at 9:00, fight is over at 10:00

[cobalt pelican]

you mean putting them into the soulbind thing?

cause it'll just give you a 145 if you're lacking some

[strange silo]

yea these are the ones i have used till now and stored the others in bank

[brazen rampart]

Pretty sure getting an extra vendetta in p3 is worth more than having it for lust, but I'd wait for someone better than me to answer

[strange silo]

wait really? so i def should use the other ones

[tulip nacelle]

yes

[brazen rampart]

My group lusted at 7 min cause we had one dk

[tulip nacelle]

on sire you should vend p1 once p2 once and p3 twice

[strange silo]

unlucky i had hoped that i can minimize the randomness in korthia :d

[alpine latch]

And then he put us in B tier... lol

[silent tinsel]

Could probably vend twice in p1, Have to use it on gloomveil at 4:00

[tulip nacelle]

do you not stop damage in p1?

[brazen rampart]

Depends where your vend is placed. If you gotta use on evershade then you hold in p1

[silent tinsel]

average raid dps is around 70k p1

[cedar crater]

Hey all! So im currently Necro, and only play Sin. I plan on mostly raiding and doing 15s for GV. should i switch to venth or stay necro?

[uneven hamlet]

u prob can vend twice before they call to stop dps, it depends on your raid damage

[silent tinsel]

fastest we got was beating night hunter 6

[tulip nacelle]

sounds like inting to me ngl

[sonic schooner]

i would ask to vendetta on evershade, or whatever your first general is

[gusty breach]

watch the video

[sonic schooner]

🙄

[gusty breach]

not the thumnail

he said B+ or A-, w.e.

[silent tinsel]

me and a mage do like 700k damage to gloomveil

[tulip nacelle]

doesn't matter, you should just do 1 1 2 vendettas

[teal bluff]

is there anything i should be doing before popping vendetta like pooling energy or is it just a button i press off cd?

[gusty breach]

essentially he said a tier

[uneven hamlet]

you can 100% vend twice on p1

[tulip nacelle]

for what?

you have to stop dps

[pliant nest]

is it still worth using shadowcore oil on mh for pure st fights?

[uneven hamlet]

you have time to do dam before it

[gusty mirage]

you want stones for more consistent damage as assassination but @balmy condor made a simmy sim for it

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[pliant nest]

thanks

[silent tinsel]

atleast I figured out I can use 1:30 again and have them ready before p3

[gusty breach]

he said something like, outlaw S
sin A-, B+
Sub C tier

and before that he spent like 10 min saying its not gospel, dont get discoraged playing w.e. spec u want, the tierlist for everyone to see if his predictions for m+ for the next few months will be correct( and he mentions that he was incorrect on things like shadowpriests before)

essentially, biased tier list out there, to make fun of him if he is wrong, or say wow much Baba Vanga(bulgarian clairvoyant person) if he is correct

[fallen ginkgo]

do we have any sims specific for races? troll for assa and orc for outlaw?

[gusty mirage]

orc is strongest horde race for ST dps iirc

[humble ginkgo]

Races dont matter much

[gusty mirage]

but yeah races are minimal dps differentials

I think bloodmalllet has sims for them

[balmy condor]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[balmy condor]

can check here

[slow marsh]

Wait why you do dis whisp

sub is better now

[balmy condor]

I don't make the rules

[gusty mirage]

he actually does

he told me he cooks sims

[hazy geyser]

Sub is out simming assa in ST?!?

[gusty kestrel]

omg quick all reroll

[gusty mirage]

all these changes made me uncomfortable

so I decided to reroll into something my smoothbrain can comprehend better: bm hunter

[slow marsh]

400 dps is not by a little bit either why god why

300 *

[hazy geyser]

OH NO ITS FUCKING KYRIAN D:

[gusty mirage]

what's kyrian

[hazy geyser]

God i hate kyrian rogue

[gusty mirage]

then don't play it

its not that big of a deal

promise you that if you like venthyr more you'll do better

if you play venthyr

[brazen rampart]

I don't even remember, what were the changes made to sub during the ptr cycle that brought it up to assa level?

[odd hazel]

are people still

[hazy geyser]

Sub is simming highest with Mikanikos

[odd hazel]

listening to tier lists

like they are any sort of reliable

[balmy condor]

Tier list? Where

Must follow

[gusty mirage]

buncha buffs went through sub in ptr

much needed buffs tbh

[brazen rampart]

I only remember the shadow techniques change

[hazy geyser]

And didn't they buff backstab?

[gusty mirage]

lemme get you the list @brazen rampart

[slow marsh]

thjey buffed aoe and backstab

and dance uptime is higher

[hazy geyser]

Man i just hope they dont nerf the blades to the group comes mythic week

[gusty mirage]

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/rogue-class-changes-in-shadowlands-patch-9-1 @brazen rampart

[brazen rampart]

Yo thanks man

[gusty mirage]

np

[brazen rampart]

[hazy geyser]

Ok shadow technique proccing more frequently can actually be big

[brazen rampart]

I forgot about the gloomblade buff

📈

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

big stonks

[balmy condor]

I can’t wait

[silent tinsel]

Jesus mechagnome is strong

[odd hazel]

it always has been

[civic trellis]

Yeah also mfd to buff obedience

Pog

[gusty mirage]

yeah those little diaper babies have been insane

[balmy condor]

“Hey guys perforated sim really high and gloomblade buff, so is that good combo?”

[odd hazel]

oxi is just mad hes ugly

[slender berry]

ignoring backstab got buffed also

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

He’s as Ugly as Michael b Jordan

[brazen rampart]

[slow marsh]

remember when we were all clowning kyrian leggo

[arctic bronze]

pls no smuf covenant

smurf*

[hazy geyser]

Man kyrian's echoing buffed cp thing is such a nightmare to get if you are playing specs like outlaw and sub where you get random combo points

[slow marsh]

na you have 45 secs to proc them

[hazy geyser]

Yeah but if you get that random combo point instead of doing a 7 cp finisher you'll do a 3 cp finisher if the buffed one was on 2

[slow marsh]

true

[grim jay]

Just track the passive and its pretty okey

[slow marsh]

Honestly that and mechanics for prog has me feeling good about staying sin

I'm glad sub bois are getting their niche back

[grim jay]

The thing about kyrian is the soulbind, not the leggo

[slow marsh]

Yeah the triple potency mikanikos but you still run the leggo for ST

*as of now

alrighty i'm at peace now about the sims i will crawl back in my hoel

[rugged heron]

Sub rogue A tier. POG lol

[balmy condor]

What tier list came out

[neon sequoia]

hey guys when do i use sepsis as an assas night fae rogue rogue?

[raven vapor]

@balmy condor Dratnos M+ speculation

[civic trellis]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

sub C tier?

Good one

[nocturne tide]

i mean if he was down on sub in general probably going to reflect that in m+ too

[steel geyser]

wow this tier list

he's taking big risk here

puting 80% of specs in the same tier

[finite sail]

https://gyazo.com/fc9d4f39fad6137677e83266870ce890

[raven vapor]

he does say it's his personal speculation and he's ready to be proven wrong tbf

[finite sail]

Even after nerf they're pretty good

[raven vapor]

i personally find tier lists to be quite damaging but if people want to follow it

[neon sequoia]

what are the best sources of info? wowhead / icy-veins / anything else?

for rotations and stuff

[raven vapor]

channel pins / wowhead

[neon sequoia]

okay though so thank you

thought*

[wary thicket]

Hey guys any idea where I can find sims for gear next patch? My guild wants me to make a bis list and idk what trinkets to go for etc for 9.1

[raven vapor]

it's best to ask here though if you have any questions, last i checked wowhead was a bit outdated on covenants

[neon sequoia]

yeah i've tried but as no one is playing nf it's hard to get help for me lol

was just curious when to use sepsis in rotation

[raven vapor]

[sand sigil]

LOOOOL what he on man

how in the world is outlaw s tier smh my head

the only s tier is ele sham, bear tank, and hpal

[limber lion]

Someone's been sleeping in class

[wary thicket]

@raven vapor I did mate they just talk about the dagger and covenants

[teal bluff]

how high of a priority is SnD in aoe? Because I know its like #1 in ST

[raven vapor]

should always have it up

[neon sequoia]

is it better to use mutilate > ambush even with subterfuge / vanish as mutilate has a chance to give double crits and therefore more cp for envenom?

or is ambush still better in some cases as the base damage is higher

than mutilate*

[limber lion]

Never use Ambush

Without Blindside

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[raven vapor]

forgot the command for that

[neon sequoia]

okay, can i ask why

just sims say so?

[raven vapor]

that's the one!

[limber lion]

:)

[civic trellis]

do you know which buff is this one

[neon sequoia]

i see thank you

[civic trellis]

it looks like LBE but the 15 secs confuses me

[neon sequoia]

so with sepsis proc i should prio ambush

[sand sigil]

has it ever been discussed a certain amount of dps that emeni would need to be within bonesmith to merit running emeni for raid wide grp dps increase? like just as a rule of thumb to reference

like if emeni were only 10 dps worse than bonesmith, u could not ethically ever choose bonesmith for raid prog

[teal bloom]

Pretty sure you don't use the sepsis proc at all on assa

[sonic schooner]

why would u cast an ambush as assa outside of bs window 🤷‍♂️

[soft shale]

emeni gets some value across tiers because you have more primary stats

[neon sequoia]

well mutilate for me does 1k. ambush does 2.4k.

[soft shale]

also int classes have more int so they also get more value

[neon sequoia]

the extra chance to get 1 more cp from mutilate gives my envenom 500 more dmg

[soft shale]

oh nonono

[neon sequoia]

doesn't seem worth to mutilate over ambush

[teal bloom]

In addition to higher average combo point generation, mutilate has 2 chances to proc poisons

[neon sequoia]

oh poisons yeah

but still with my crit <20%

seems weird if i want to kill someone to prio mutilate over ambush

[sonic schooner]

🤔

[raven vapor]

what context are you talking here? pve/pvp?

[neon sequoia]

pvp in my head but also thinking about it applying to pve

[sonic schooner]

for pvp definitely ambush, even on subterfuge we ambush

[neon sequoia]

since ambush is over 100% more dmg seems weird to risk trying to get 1 more cp for minimal dmg

[teal bloom]

Yeah idk about pvp, this channel is about pve

[raven vapor]

pve is about ramp up and getting dots up not burst, the increased poison proc+increased combo points helps that happen faster

[neon sequoia]

okay thanks for the help

[strange python]

The bot command says to use it in sepsis procs 🤔

[neon sequoia]

i trust the info was just wondering about why

[sonic schooner]

#pvp would be your best way to figure it out in pvp content, but as far as i know yep your opener looks like Cheap shot > ambush > ambush

or garrot > ambush > ambush if u want to keep dr ready for a ks

[raven vapor]

tbh why are people still using sepsis

[sonic schooner]

Mastery stacking and shiv big boom boom

[strange python]

Prob soul shape for pvp

[sonic schooner]

sounds good looks bad

yea fae's soulshape is a must have for RBGs, probably not a must have but a toptier ability 🤷‍♂️ otherwise for arena it s meh compared to necro survivabiliity

[raven vapor]

i do miss soulshape for general getting around tbh

[neon sequoia]

i picked nf when i started and just like the covenant, i'll never be 2.5k rated so who cares lol

and it seems fitting for assas

[sonic schooner]

i also do miss soulshape and ysera body 😔

[neon sequoia]

with the dot

[sonic schooner]

it s ok tbh, not the worst choice, you mostly play arround sepsis final boom as a kill window

[strange silo]

do we know if there will be new consumables for 9.1 or can we just stack up on the ones we used in nathria?

[neon sequoia]

yeah i watched a vid wtih a really good cc rotation that utilizes sepsis finishing after kidney to re-silence.. seems good

[placid adder]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[static mirage]

I’m afraid to ask how to play elaborate planning but I’ve played it for multiple fights because of top logs, why am I playing elaborate planning for sludgefist and sire?

[strange silo]

Ok ty and can someone do the pastebin command for oil vs stone? :d

[sonic schooner]

sludgefist because it gives you more burst window coupled with vigor, and on sire because it s not only a single target fight, am i right ceve sensei?

[raven vapor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[sonic schooner]

:3

[strange silo]

ty

[static mirage]

Appreciate it. I figured that’s why but I have zero reason to believe I’m playing it right

[sonic schooner]

i think the only reason to play BS + DS is on pure ST fight where u have 100% uptime on boss 🤔

[limber lion]

It's not really something that you can sim, so it's really hard to say at what point does emeni pull ahead in terms of overall raid dps. Emeni also gains a lot of value from fights with add waves.

[sonic schooner]

for ST i sim better using BS + DS but i find myself more comfy going vigor + EP so i end doing more dmg like that

🤷‍♂️

[raven vapor]

it's always advisable to play the talents you are more comfortable with

you'll perform better than what you sim with talents you're not used to

[last raptor]

If my plan is to focus Raid content, I figure ill be playing Sin/Sub, is it just best to go venthyr even if it suffers in m+? (And I know sims will have to be rerun with the new wowhead thing)

I also have read the pin, just wasnt sure if wowhead notes changed anything

[raven vapor]

Venth is very slightly ahead on ST damage, but any fight with an additional add necro will pull ahead

the rule generally seems to be if you play sin+outlaw run necro, or venth for sin+sub from what i've seen

[limber lion]

If you want to play sub and sin, just play Venth

[sonic schooner]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qkHxkBdT7n3BZRqcxkCeg3

🤷‍♂️

[last raptor]

Sounds good, thanks for all the advice!

[odd hazel]

post these as memes plez

[cobalt pelican]

@sand sigil lbe is kind of shit in terms of what it offers others, so i wouldn't worry about it; spitball numbers if you care have sim values it for us personally at ~150ish standalone, and 4 other people get 20% value that we do (in 100% optimal circumstances), so net 100-150 dps in current gear assuming 0 resets, rn emeni sims at -50 dps for me personally so it's a 50-100 raid gain

reveries alone is reason not to tbh

[sand sigil]

yeah i'll probably end up playing bonesmith almost always this raid but emeni could be alright for fights like painsmith or dormazain or kt even i guess

[raven vapor]

random question, last boss in NW is it considered rude to vanish the dark exile as it gets insta cast on another player or do we just not care?

[sand sigil]

well

[cobalt pelican]

if you're getting somewhat consistent resets it'll probably be worth it, given my current gearset has it at only a 50~ dps deficit playing wps and sudden fractures

but it's pretty insignificant overall

[sand sigil]

technically rogue is one of the most efficient ppl to go downstairs @raven vapor

but u can also stay up w grappling hook if u play outlaw

like most of the time it's worse for ur team if u send down another class besides rogue

[raven vapor]

this would be as sin, but yeah i get your point

[sonic schooner]

but u get the debuff on you if u grapp hook right? And die at the end of it also right?

🤔

[cobalt pelican]

idek what the range on lbe applying is

glancing at logs it seems to be.. not massive

[civic trellis]

you can cloack it

[sonic schooner]

ooooooh

[sand sigil]

i think it's 5yd or 8yd radius, i can't remember

[cobalt pelican]

melee brainlets gather up

[west geode]

can i get renown from each difficulty in CN or per boss?

[oak sky]

So do you like grapple when youre about to get picked up by dark exile

[civic trellis]

yea

like at 80% of the cast bar

[oak sky]

Ive seen it on stream but i tried it the other day and didnt exactly get it

Ok

Then you insta cloak?

[civic trellis]

no

[scenic meteor]

anyone know how to get rid of this, it wont leave my screen lol

[civic trellis]

you can wait up to 1 min

[oak sky]

Ok

[raven vapor]

does it still drop the ice if you cloak?

[oak sky]

I was playing assassination in keys so i would just quickly go through downstairs and melt the add

But should be worth knowing thanks

[cobalt pelican]

cloaking just removes the effect completely no bad stuff happens

[raven vapor]

cool, doubt i'll ever use it as i main sin in m+ but it's good to know thanks

[cobalt pelican]

maybe one day a priest will grip you

..maybe..

[crude cargo]

So you'd hold cloak to immune chains, or until the debuff is about to drop. Good to know

[teal bluff]

do you pool energy before using shiv in aoe?

[gusty mirage]

you shouldn't have energy issues in aoe

because you're putting up ruptures on everything

[minor thicket]

whats stats do we put on cloak for doomblade

can we buy the cloak yet?

[cobalt pelican]

you can buy whatever you want, can't craft cloak till reset

and crit haste

[minor thicket]

10-4

ty

the AH doesnt have any of the cloak shells for doomblade?

are they not available yet ?

[cobalt pelican]

cloak shells?

grim-veiled cape?

[minor thicket]

thats what its called?

i trhought it was umbrahide

[cobalt pelican]

if it's made out of leather it's umbrahide

but you don't make cloaks out of leather

[minor thicket]

thats right lmao

[worthy moth]

necro dream!

[floral vale]

is it fine to garrote / rupture inside of shiv?

or is it a dps increase to try to avoid it?

[nimble tartan]

its fine bleed away

[hazy geyser]

I THINK its fine but i would be better if you try and time your dots before shiv

[floral vale]

it feels like my garrote always needs to be refreshed during shiv

:c

[hazy geyser]

Well that's not really a problem since you can garrote for the 5th cp

[floral vale]

6th?

or 5th?

like shiv at 4 with DS?

garrote**

[hazy geyser]

Like in shiv window you mutilate until 4+ right?

When you get to 4 cp instead of using envenom you can garrote envenom

[spice spire]

Mut until max -1

As for everything else.
Slam shiv on CD, if you have to bleed in the shiv window it’s fine, it’s not a huge deal

[jagged yoke]

whats assassinations aoe/cleave like for 9.1?

[wise gull]

cleave will still be very strong as usual

[hazy geyser]

As good as outlaw?

[hollow river]

sin is better at 2 target cleave for sure. outlaw aoe wins.

[hollow river]

there are sims in the pins as well.

[civic trellis]

do we know what dps loss is braindead shiv playing at 2t cleave?

[hollow river]

not really.

[civic trellis]

i mean without taking care of envs in shiv windows

[hollow river]

you'd have to compare logs or somethin i guess

[hollow river]

what do you mean exactly

you priortize bleeds even inside shiv window

except CT

[civic trellis]

Yeah i know but

imagine rupture is pandemic at 8

[hollow river]

right

[civic trellis]

and instead of using a env inside shiv windows

you refresh rupture

[hollow river]

that's fine

shiv amps poison damage as well

[fiery cape]

I just swapped from venthyr sub to necro sin. Do you crimson tempest on cd or only with certain min targets? Like for single target, do you ignore ct and just envenom instead?

[hollow river]

you don't NEED to shoot for a certain number of envenoms inside shiv window

sure if you get 1 or 2 that's nice

[civic trellis]

Yeah just with doomblade, env is rlly strong

[hollow river]

but prio bleeds

[civic trellis]

with 8-9 bleeds

[hollow river]

depends on the fight

[sand sigil]

rupture is 8 what is garrote?

[hollow river]

if you're talented into CT, you can keep CT up on ST

like in m+ or cleave raid fights

like Sire, you can keep CT up on Sire

[civic trellis]

Lets say garrote is +10 secs

[hollow river]

30% of the bleed time

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[sand sigil]

right ok so then why rupture 8? 30% of max 6cp rupture time?

[hollow river]

^^^garrote is 5.4

[civic trellis]

Yea, its 8.4

[sand sigil]

i had 5.4 for garrote in a wa but i think my rupture is set to less than 8 i'm not sure

[hollow river]

sure. but if you're going to apply a 5 CP rupture it is 7.2sec

[sand sigil]

i guess i gotta check

[hollow river]

WA's don't track pandemics perfectly

they usually all track whatever your max CP is

[civic trellis]

Yep

[hollow river]

so if Deeper, it will be about 8.5sec

if Vigor, it will be 7.2sec

[civic trellis]

But is safe to set it at max CP

[golden sinew]

Yea i have mine set to time 4 cp ruptures to be sure

[civic trellis]

since with 6 cp is 8.4, but 5 cp is 7.2, difference es 1.2 secs

with reaction time + time to notice it

• gcd

sounds safe

[hollow river]

yeah you "lose" a second or whatever but it's minimal

afaik, i'm told it's not worth tracking the pd timer of the CP you're holding as it's minimal interference

[civic trellis]

@sand sigil i was thinking in the scenario of misplaying reapplying a rupture in pandemic inside shiv windows, instead of env (you can refresh rupture after safely)

that would be a braindead playstyle, was wondering what dps loss is that

in 2t

[hollow river]

we still follow the same rules

[civic trellis]

Yeah i know, its minmax thing only 😄

I know its barely noticiable but... in the end everything helps

[hollow river]

well it's not a bad question tbh

but

if you're reapplying the rupture AFTER the env

are you pooling your envenoms properly outside of shiv?

[civic trellis]

No

[hollow river]

because if you're starved for energy that might not always work

[civic trellis]

With 2t cleave is hard to be starved for energy

[hollow river]

if you say so

[civic trellis]

you just have too much regen

i mean you dont overcap

[hollow river]

in 2t are you using CT

[civic trellis]

yea

[hollow river]

because i find it very hectic trying to env>reapplying rupture

than reapplying at the last second

[woeful glade]

Serrated Bone Spike debuff ID anyone?

[civic trellis]

same as spell id iirc

[gusty mirage]

Just prioritize bleeds outside of vendetta on 2T cleave and you’ll find it to be much less stressful

[woeful glade]

ty

[hollow river]

oxi

[civic trellis]

😄

[hollow river]

lievet is asking not me

[gusty mirage]

Oh

[civic trellis]

this is the question:

[hollow river]

i've been telling him(or her) the same

[civic trellis]

.

[hollow river]

except it's shiv that's the topic

[gusty mirage]

Oh we talked about this the other day

[civic trellis]

Oh really

Can you link me some message so i can read the whole convo

[gusty mirage]

Kind of

It was about when it’s okay to not worry about refreshing bleeds on cleave

Having to refresh a bleed in a non-vendetta shiv window isn’t a huge dps loss unless it becomes a habit. I don’t have the exact numbers

[hollow river]

so what're you presuming we do inside vendetta btw

[gusty mirage]

Yeah you want to prio bleeds outside of vendetta

[hollow river]

right

inside vendetta tunnel env on vendetta target?

[gusty mirage]

Yeppers. Ideally you’d want to minimize having to reapply during the shiv window anyway, so it’d be okay to reapply the bleed out of pandemic in order to maximize that window

[hollow river]

uwotm8

[teal bluff]

how do i handle targets that just get deleted? is it even worth putting dots on them?

[gusty mirage]

Snipe em with a low cp rupture if you can for free energy

[hollow river]

depends

[gusty mirage]

That was probably very poorly worded I’m sorry

[hollow river]

no it was worded fine

[civic trellis]

This

Would love to know the numbers

[hollow river]

it just goes against everything i've ever learned

!!!!\

[civic trellis]

But just reading is not a "huge dps loss" is enough for me 😄

[gusty mirage]

I’d have to run some sims, I can take a crack at it if you’d like

[civic trellis]

Only if it doesnt take you too much effort, since i will try optimal playing

[gusty mirage]

I could be wrong, and I encourage people to fact check me whenever I say stuff. It’s good for everyone involved if I get fact checked

[civic trellis]

Actually it makes sense what you say

[hollow river]

well you said you were discussing it the other day

[civic trellis]

but a sim is a sim

[hollow river]

might i ask who the discussion was with

[gusty mirage]

But I’ve always known that it’s better to lose a few seconds of pandemic refreshing early than it is to have the bleed drop off

[hollow river]

because you're more knowledgeable than me either way so

i'd believe you xD

[gusty mirage]

That could also be outdated info

[glossy turret]

Is there an official Covenant/legendary bis yet?

[gusty mirage]

I’m a boomer after all

[hollow river]

pins

[gusty mirage]

I’ll run some sims and check it out for you guys

It’ll take me a bit because I’m not as well versed as Cev and Whispyr with simming. Plus I’m an old man

[hollow river]

i was just trying to help out

:d

[gusty mirage]

[civic trellis]

❤️ ❤️ ❤️

Thanks man

[glossy turret]

!bis

[gusty mirage]

This convo helped spark my will to make some coffee and brush up on my simming skills

[glossy turret]

whats the command?

[hollow river]

no command

look near search bar

there's a pin button

[jagged yoke]

venthyr bis? sorry not sure if nadja is venthyr. I'm just returning and im night fae so gonna swap lol

[hollow river]

it looks like a tac

[glossy turret]

ok cool

[hollow river]

info is in the pins

[gusty mirage]

Yeah venthyr is top dog in pure single target

[hollow river]

most are going necro though

unless you're planning on playing sub as well

[cedar crater]

I hate to be that guy but i gotta ask. I am currently a necro, i plan on playing only sin. I plan on raiding mainly and doing weekly 15s. Should i switch to venth or stay necro?

[hollow river]

necro is barely behind in ST and ahead 2 or more targets

[jagged yoke]

ah is the necro cleave a lot more

ah i see

[hollow river]

decent amount yeah check the pins for sim

[gusty mirage]

are you planning on doing the keys as outlaw?

[rugged heron]

so i guess necro is the safe pick if you play other specs

[cedar crater]

nope, staying sin

[gusty mirage]

stay necro then

[hollow river]

not for sub if you plan on raiding

[gusty mirage]

if you plan on doing m+ as sin or outlaw

necro is the play

[rugged heron]

probably not gonna play sub

[hollow river]

then yeah you're fine

[cedar crater]

ty @gusty mirage

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

with necro

[rugged heron]

i actually find sin more fun now than in bfa

[gusty mirage]

alright let me log in and grab my simc profile and get to chugging away at this

[rugged heron]

i do miss my shrouded suffocations though

[fiery cape]

Does our regen benefit from bone spikes the same as garrote/ rupture bleeds?

[hollow river]

everyone does :d i never got to try it

[hollow river]

no

only gar, rupture, and poisons iirc

[rugged heron]

that's correct. but i do remember sbs does count for doomblade

[hollow river]

i think every bleed counts for doomblade. i don't remember tbh.

[rugged heron]

but wait, what if you have the trinket that bleeds the target. pog

i think there is one from 9.1

[hollow river]

lol idk

they don't tend to let our gear effects mesh with our leggo's and talents/abilities

but ya never know

[cerulean nest]

so we still staying necro sin or what? (any opinions change since a few days ago? lol)

[hollow river]

not really no

[spice spire]

If you’re maining sin and running all content probably not

[cerulean nest]

i was planning on it unless sub is superior enough to go venthyr etc.

[spice spire]

I’d err on the side of caution and say no (just as flayedwing doesn’t count as a Poison for us) but there’s a possibility?

[hollow river]

it's looking pretty good atm. just bad for cleave.

[jagged bobcat]

Sub isn’t gonna be better

[jagged yoke]

which cov ability do u guys find the most fun?

[spice spire]

I think that’s a lot of it as well.
Do you plan on OSing? If so Venthyr is still good for sin and a go-to for sub as well

[spice spire]

Sbs hands down

[fiery cape]

Can someone reality check my m+ pack opener from stealth? Garrote, tab, Garrote, tab, Garrote, ct, bone spike, rupture, tab, bone spike, rupture, tab, bone spike, rupture, mut, slice n dice... this gives me 3 empowered garrotes, 3 bone spikes, 3 ruptures, and slice up.. from here I maintain garrotes, ct, and pool for shiv envenoms..

[hollow river]

?

[spice spire]

Used them all

[hollow river]

i agree sbs is by far most fun

[cerulean nest]

I like SBS more than anything venthyr has to offer. I just want my numbers to be the biggest lol

thats why its hard to choose

[hollow river]

SnD first

then CT

[jagged yoke]

ah yeh...i havent used since shadowlands launch when u test them and it felt like a wet noodle. i guess its a lot better now

[spice spire]

Missing fourth garrote, other than that, what badkstab said

[hollow river]

and use envenom to reapply SnD when you need to

[spice spire]

Have you been venthyr before?

[cerulean nest]

yep

[fiery cape]

I slice on 1 or 2 cp and then build for an envenom to max its duration

[spice spire]

Just take the quest and save it

For ez switch

[hollow river]

make sure you let your empowered garrotes run all the way out before repplying

[cerulean nest]

yeah that's what I'm doing

[spice spire]

Complete first week. Take the second weeks quest and hold

Then yeah if you find sub GIGA, swap it ezpz

[hollow river]

you do your garrotes then SnD

[cerulean nest]

yeah I guess that's really all i can do

[hollow river]

then SBS, CT, SBS, Rupt, FoK - envenoms

[fiery cape]

Yes, I setup a weak aura so I know if it is empowered so I don't clip it.. thx

[hollow river]

kk

[spice spire]

Well fok if +3

[hollow river]

4+?

4 or more

[spice spire]

Greater than 3

[hollow river]

you FoK once on 3 to spread poisons

yeah

[fiery cape]

K, so if I just trade my ct and slice priority on the opener, that would be better?

[hollow river]

yes. then if you keep SnD up with envenoms you shouldn't need to reapply for a while

[spice spire]

Little bit

[fiery cape]

I thought slice lost value compared to ct at 3+ targets?

[hollow river]

we always keep up SnD

[spice spire]

Snd > Envenom to create SnD uptime > CT > Rupture > Envenom

[hollow river]

it spreads poisons when you tab target other targets etc

[spice spire]

It’s more of an SnD > rupture situation than SnD > CT

[hollow river]

our poison damage is pretty important