assassination

[sonic schooner]

Let's be honest

[limber lion]

Rae has had 233 weapons since week 1 or some shit

[shy dust]

[limber lion]

And it's been 7 months

[shy dust]

No

[limber lion]

and I still don't have em

[sonic schooner]

U should do more efforts ceve

[limber lion]

I suck

[shy dust]

The example is in pve

It would be maxed out at 220

And then in PvP it goes higher

[hollow river]

...

Ok

[echo geyser]

do u guys focus goliath/skirms with mutilates or just spam fok for CP gen?

on SLG mythic

[hollow river]

I would assume it’s the 4 or more rule for FoK unless your RL calls for an aoe full stop.

Or called to tunnel 1 add.

[frosty cobalt]

Is our lego going to change for raid?

in 9.1

[spice spire]

Maybe

No changes have completed

[frosty cobalt]

i really hope for a change something new

[spice spire]

Won’t know until 9.1 is finalized

Maybe 2022

[frosty cobalt]

😦

[limber lion]

Many of us do, brother.

[soft shale]

dashing had hopes or maybe zoldyck if they make it work with envenom finally

[limber lion]

Eh, maybe

[steep reef]

@balmy condor whats better race do you think goblin or void elf

[humble ginkgo]

2 diff factions

[frigid kestrel]

I focus on whatever my raid leader wants me to focus on. Which is usually Goliath or Boss. I use FOK for CP generation as long as there are 4+ adds out and maintain 5 Bleeds up, while focusing down my Prio targets.

I have not yet killed SLG yet so take what i do with a big grain of salt, Cev might be able to give you more sound advice.

[humble ginkgo]

if ur swapping for dps dont lol

[frigid kestrel]

Also SBSing Grashal before he flies off is huge

[limber lion]

Kyric is a troll, ignore him

[echo geyser]

u mean when they phase u sbs and they refund?

[limber lion]

Honestly just keep using FoK and mainly pumping into the boss/goliath. Make sure to have SBS/CT up on Skirms and a rupture or two, and you're good

[humble ginkgo]

oh ok

[limber lion]

You use SBS on Grashaal at the very start of the encounter.

[humble ginkgo]

btw what is CT?

I see it typed a lot

[limber lion]

Crimson Tempest

Our AoE talent

[humble ginkgo]

oh ok

ty

[frigid kestrel]

If you get him before the encounter starts the SBS stays on him permanently. With him and Kall SBSed you get big CP off of every SBS casted for the rest of the encounter

[limber lion]

Yep, this man's got it

[frigid kestrel]

Whats that defensive command again? Ive seen the shit a million times and still forget it

[balmy condor]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[balmy condor]

!defensive

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[frigid kestrel]

Better question, is there a list off all the commands we have somewhere, i dont venture outside of the Sin section at all

[balmy condor]

!commands

[frigid kestrel]

Your the legit best

[balmy condor]

I think

no

that's not it

[limber lion]

Many are listed on the topic

[balmy condor]

hold on

[steep reef]

😦

[limber lion]

I guess Whispyr has a command for it

[frigid kestrel]

Always good to ask questions lol

[limber lion]

Yuuup

[balmy condor]

well !help exists

but it's missing some stuff

[frigid kestrel]

@balmy condor This Def shit is a living document, ye? I keep checking it to see if there is something added that i missed.

[balmy condor]

yes\

[arctic granite]

Hey I've got question what legendary should I craft as Assassination Zoldyck or doomblade? cuz I'm not sure myself

[limber lion]

Both.

[balmy condor]

wait wtf is this

[limber lion]

What content do you do?

[balmy condor]

!changelog

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Changelog: http://www.ravenholdt.net/changelog/rogue-changelog-for-world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth/

[arctic granite]

Mostly mythics

[balmy condor]

ouch

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

that's out of date

[limber lion]

Very relevant

[limber lion]

M+? Then Zoldyck.

[arctic granite]

Ok ty

[mighty owl]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[balmy condor]

aight so it's !help, but the list of commands wasn't updated. Should be good in a couple hours

[frigid kestrel]

Bet, wont forget that.

Im assuming it DM's you the list of commands?

[balmy condor]

yep

I think I got them all let me double check

[limber lion]

Remember !simguide

[balmy condor]

yeah I already did

should be okay

[lilac dagger]

According to the icy veins guide casting envenom is lower priority than using covenant ability. Does that mean i should unload all 3 of my Serrated Spike charges before using my first envenom on single target as a necrolord?

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

No, we only use SBS during Gemstone windows.

They work a bit different as well, because SBS is a generator and Envenom is a finisher

So during Gemstone windows it's highly likely that you'll be pressing em both

[frigid kestrel]

See this is why i lurk, i was mid typing this exact response and had to delete it because you typed if quicker

[lilac dagger]

Yea it made a lot more sense to me to not waste cps

Just got confused by reading the single target priority on icy veins :P

[limber lion]

Jk, feel free to help out as well

I'm not always ready

But when I am, I'm a quick boy

[frigid kestrel]

I shine when you and Whispyr are gone

but.... like that rarely happens

[limber lion]

Yeah fair enough, I'm not 100% sure if they have been updated to reflect the changes to the APL's honestly

[balmy condor]

cev being 9 hours ahead helps cover the gaps

[limber lion]

But yeah, just dump during Gemstone windows and you're gucci

[balmy condor]

it's 9 hours right

9:14pm?

[limber lion]

10pm now

[balmy condor]

oh 10 hours

[limber lion]

Even better

[lilac dagger]

And speaking of Gemstone... what is Gemstone? :D

[balmy condor]

heirmir soulbind

at the bottom

[lilac dagger]

i cant find any talents, soulbind stuff or other thats called gemstone

[limber lion]

Heirmir has a Soulbind trait called Marrowed Gemstone

It's called Heirmir's Arsenal: Marrowed Gemstone to be exact.

I think.

[lilac dagger]

aaah ok

yea you are right

thanks :)

[limber lion]

[amber mountain]

<makes zero context notes> Bio breaks during gemstone windows

[limber lion]

[lilac dagger]

So i should use one charge of SBS early on to just get the dot up, then use mutilate to build cps and save the remaining SBS for gemstone window and just dump them all then even if i have 5 cp?

[balmy condor]

@limber lion do we refresh doomblade during gemstone

[limber lion]

:(

[frigid kestrel]

To Soon

[limber lion]

@balmy condor What do I do if I can't fit 3 Envenoms in a Shiv window?

[frigid kestrel]

Easy Hold your Shiv and Pool your energy , now what did i win?

[amber mountain]

On single target you should open with SBS, then hold for gemstone windows

[thorny pond]

How do I fit 2 shivs in gemstone window?????

[pale fossil]

Stack Mastery.

[burnt star]

How do i fit 1 gemstone into 2 shiv window?

[frigid kestrel]

Pffttt to easy, stop attacking until gemstone is back up

Im crushing the troll today

[limber lion]

Exactly like @amber mountain said. But be aware that the first gemstone happens during your opener, so you'll be dumping the first charges right after your vanish MA window.

[thorny pond]

Cev said to slam shiv but IV said warriors don’t use slam rotationally

[limber lion]

Noticed some people only opening with SBS but then forgetting to use the last 2 charges during the opener and then cap it.

[amber mountain]

I have a WA for the gemstone that does wonders for me

[pale fossil]

^Same

[burnt star]

Care to share?

[thorny pond]

Does it fire SBS for you?

[lilac dagger]

Thank you all for the clarification :)

[limber lion]

I personally use http://wago.io/MarrowedGemstone

but anything is fine honestly.

[scenic root]

Shouldn't you use finisher at 5 during gemstone, it's a long enough duration that SBS finisher SBS should fit, since you should have only two charges. But would only finish if at max or -1 right?

[limber lion]

Not 100% sure what you're asking, but the normal finisher rules always apply.

So even during Gemstones you would finish at max-1

The finisher rule never changes.

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm lost too

[scenic root]

This comment he said to use SBS at max

[pale fossil]

SBS gives you two CP after the first one (in ST), so using another SBS whe you're -1 would overcap you.

[scenic root]

And you agreed

[balmy condor]

he didn't agree

[limber lion]

Oh I guess I didn't read the last part of it.

[balmy condor]

he agreed with the comment of someone else

explaining how to use it

[pale fossil]

Dump SBS at some point in the Gemstone window, you don't need to immediately dump them once Gemstone procs.

Finish like normal.

[balmy condor]

it's a generator

don't overcap on generators

[scenic root]

I understand the gemstone, but was trying to clarify that the last statement said was incorrect. Was confusing

[amber mountain]

It's a flashy snazzy awesome generator and i love it to pieces

[limber lion]

I love it to FatSharkYes

[lilac dagger]

Man assassination is so awesomely complicated. I love it.

Breath of fresh air after playing warrior for so long

[balmy condor]

it's really not

[limber lion]

It's honestly very simple when you get it down.

Might seem new and confusing for now

[balmy condor]

people overcomplicate it

for

idk

fun?

maintain everything, all cooldowns on cooldown

[lilac dagger]

I mean there is way more stuff to keep track of compared to the two specs i played this tier during progression

[balmy condor]

and you're good to go

[limber lion]

Yeah, it's probably a different type of difficulty.

[pale fossil]

I think the most complicated class/spec I've played is Windwalker?

[limber lion]

Warriors don't really have to keep track of dots.

[lilac dagger]

Yea, it might just be that im not used to playing a dot class

[scenic root]

WW is roll face on keyboard = big dam

[pale fossil]

I've had the hardest time with Sub out of the Rogue specs, though. I had a lot of trouble getting the big DPS CDs to consistently line up.

[solar rose]

I think the most complicated class is havoc demon hunter dont @ me

[scenic root]

@solar rose how many hands are you using?

[thorny pond]

Sin is basically high school version of the middle school havoc

[solar rose]

At least 2

[limber lion]

You'll have a great time with it in 9.1 then as well.

[pale fossil]

I do not intend to touch it in 9.1 lol

[balmy condor]

sub 9.1 lines up cooldowns even more

[scenic root]

See that's your problem. Havoc is a one hand spec, adding useless hands makes it to hard

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's gonna be a tough spec to play

Get 10s downtime because of mechanics, everything's fucked

[pale fossil]

I like Sin the most, I think. I can't line Sub's CDs up correctly and I think I play Outlaw competently, but the pace of the spec just feels really frantic to me and it stresses me out lmao

[limber lion]

Idk, I honestly don't know how Sub plays out in 9.1, but I've heard some horror stuff from the Sub boys.

[balmy condor]

@harsh fog the only snapshot left is exsang snapshotting haste, and obviously nightstalker/subt doing more damage for the entire duration. It's still dynamic during nightstalker/subt though. Try not to hit the filter next time :)

[harsh fog]

God bless ❤️

[limber lion]

[pale fossil]

How much haste do I need before I can start using exsang

[limber lion]

You'll be happy to hear that it got nerfed for 9.1 in the most recent patch notes

[balmy condor]

you don't want to know

[thorny pond]

Cleave is so prevalent in the game and they haven’t addressed it for sub since sectec isn’t enough

And god forbid the bosses abilities eat your Dance time

[limber lion]

Add Sweeping Strikes to Sub.

Fixed

[pale fossil]

Smoke Bomb to Sub only.

[thorny pond]

Honestly yea

[shy dust]

Wym

There will always be a place

[thorny pond]

Give sub something to do outside of dance windows other than backstabbing and some sweeping strikes

[shy dust]

For a nuts st spec

[shy dust]

No that’s the design of the spec

[amber mountain]

where?!?! I can't find it! Now i'm in a panic

[limber lion]

[thorny pond]

And that’s fine but you get punished by design of encounters

[limber lion]

Made you look

[shy dust]

So do all specs

There is still a place for very very strong ST

[thorny pond]

More specs are forgiving

[shy dust]

And the ability to funnel

They are yes

Doesn’t mean you can’t play around it

[spice spire]

Toxic

[thorny pond]

No but for the majority of players more work isn’t fun to keep up

[shy dust]

I don’t consider balance and the viability of a spec

[limber lion]

But isn't very high on-demand burst and very low downtime better than sustained dps without peaks?

[shy dust]

When it comes to an average player

[limber lion]

Like think of a FM Combust

[pale fossil]

For me, it's less about the work and more about the fact that I am bad.

[limber lion]

They don't do anything outside of Combusts

But their Combust is one of the biggest cooldown's in the game

[pale fossil]

FM?

Oh Fire Mage

[limber lion]

Fire Mage

[mellow pier]

Frost mage combust when

[pale fossil]

Arcane mage combust when

[gusty mirage]

assa smoking the crack today huh

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Yeah they’re really out here today

[gusty mirage]

Shien finally gets CE and everyone goes wild

[thorny pond]

Have to do something

[limber lion]

That's old news though

[pale fossil]

Just today?

[gusty mirage]

true

[limber lion]

Must be something else.

[gusty mirage]

follow the advice of whoever's telling people to get other covenants ready for 9.1

[spice spire]

You got gear off of sire

[thorny pond]

Jokes on you all of them are at 40 because I’m a pleb

[mellow pier]

@gusty mirage just level them all during prog due to blizz changes

[pale fossil]

TFW switching back to Night Fae just to get garden mounts

[gusty mirage]

I'd rather try to beat my fastest lap in oribos than ever do another 9.0 campaign quest

[amber mountain]

I have a Monk for that

[pale fossil]

You have a Night Fae Monk???

[gusty mirage]

I ain't saving night elves in the maw, I ain't helping the reclaim the house of constructs

[mossy crown]

on mythic Sludge, when is best to use Vendetta? pull, 2nd and 4th?

[gusty mirage]

yeppers

[mellow pier]

CD

So yeah

[gusty mirage]

make sure you have shiv for the pillars too

🙂

[shy dust]

Yes

[amber mountain]

I absolutely do.

[shy dust]

Just use your first vendetta as like your 3rd global

[thorny pond]

Time to parse on every boss as kyrian

[mossy crown]

nice one

[gusty mirage]

[shy dust]

So that it is up for 2nd pillar instantly

[limber lion]

Good luck.

[mellow pier]

Also use EP if u aren’t for sludge

[gusty mirage]

make sure you play pelagos for those fat envenoms @thorny pond

[thorny pond]

All it takes is one good parse then the kids jump on the bandwagon like morons

[thorny pond]

@noble rivet

[amber mountain]

Just see all the people jumping to sub in the first 2 weeks of SL

[slender trail]

Anyone know if there were fixes to venth lego on ptr yesterday?

[mellow pier]

Tbf it got changed

[thorny pond]

Like me!!

[shy dust]

Yes it was fixed

Vers lasts as long as haste now

[gusty mirage]

@shy dust I just want to thank you for telling me to send it on Atrocity UI🙂 I love it!

[shy dust]

[gusty mirage]

the weakauras alone were worth it

[balmy condor]

atrocity ui

you mean

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

right?

idk I haven't heard of alacrity

[thorny pond]

Alacrity

[gusty mirage]

listen man

its been a long day

[thorny pond]

Link? @gusty mirage

[humble ginkgo]

subscribe to him bro

[echo geyser]

alright so i tried CT for the first time on sire and getting same results as previous week but with pb

anyone that can check my log and tell me what i can improve

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/czr41CNYWtnvZFR2#fight=27&type=damage-done

[limber lion]

You just need to play around with it more.

Just don't spam it and keep the bleed up.

You'll do fine.

[amber mountain]

https://twitch.tv/atrocity

Atrocity's UI isn't bad. Pretty clean. Has more WA's than i do for sure

[humble ginkgo]

I subbed to him a week ago

[gusty mirage]

I wish I could find the screenshots for it @thorny pond

[humble ginkgo]

just for sin WA's and sub

since fragnance didnt do sub or sin WA's in 1080

[gusty mirage]

but his WAs are actually insanely good (esp the dungeon ones)

[humble ginkgo]

since he doesnt care much

but atrocity is so active and like helps everyone and updates the ui regularly

which is sick

[nimble tartan]

love his ui

[humble ginkgo]

ye

looks rlly clean

[limber lion]

We talk about Atrocity's UI like 3 times a day here.

[nimble tartan]

i use the unitframes and buffs only tho but still nicr

[humble ginkgo]

I dont like how he has weakauras that take over ur elv ui and it changes a bunch of shit

[nimble tartan]

ye thats how good it is

[limber lion]

I guess it's pretty good, guys

[nimble tartan]

ill remind everyone in a few hours

[echo geyser]

is the echo of sin p1 dmg weighed for logs on sire?

[pale fossil]

I think I need to tinker with my UI. It's a little cluttered.

[pale fossil]

Yes, but you can filter it out easily.

[echo geyser]

i noticed im below tanks on that shit

[humble ginkgo]

it counts for ur overall parse

[nimble tartan]

have u tried atrocityui alno

[pale fossil]

Nope

[humble ginkgo]

as outlaw you are right above tanks

[echo geyser]

actually almost doing h ealer dmg

[humble ginkgo]

for only 5$ you can become the greatest @pale fossil

[limber lion]

Yes, but most of your damage comes from padding in p2, if that's what you want to do.

[limber lion]

P1 damage doesn't matter - AT all,.

[echo geyser]

p2 i see

[pale fossil]

^

[echo geyser]

cabalists

[limber lion]

It only matters if you're struggling to push p1

[pale fossil]

If you want to maximize P1 damage, we can give you some pointers, but if you're worried about killing the boss that damage is irrelevant.

[echo geyser]

nah just improving really, seems my st is decent

[wise fiber]

Nobbie question. can we cloak the knockback from sire?

[echo geyser]

but cleave/aoe fights are not so good

[gusty mirage]

I believe in you ram you're a gamer

[humble ginkgo]

I wish I could get another sire kill

[shy dust]

Just depends on how much you hold damage

[humble ginkgo]

literally piss stuck in cucumbers SLG low

[shy dust]

If you hold damage parsing is gonna be much more difficult

[pale fossil]

We got CE and then my guild dissolved

[echo geyser]

how would i know if my p2 dmg is low?

[pale fossil]

So idk that I'll ever be able to reclear it

[shy dust]

Holding in p1 will easily mess your parse up

[gusty mirage]

at least you got CE first

[humble ginkgo]

We got CE and my guild kinda stopped caring ig but they are bringing it back

[pale fossil]

Truuu

[humble ginkgo]

so many ppl quit

[balmy condor]

neigh

[humble ginkgo]

or taking breaks

[balmy condor]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[pale fossil]

@humble ginkgo If you need a sub, lmk 🙂

[humble ginkgo]

sub rogue?

[pale fossil]

Oh god no

[echo geyser]

so ur s aying most likely top parses are not holding in p1?

their guild lets them/doesnt have to hold

[pale fossil]

I have no idea what this means lol

[humble ginkgo]

you can sub to atrocity and get his ui, plater, weakauras for raid and stuff

10/10 recommend

but I dislike his plater with a passion

unless I set it up wrong

looks horrible trying to hover the hp bars and send sbs to them

[pale fossil]

I like my Plater. I just don't like the rest of the UI haha

[wind totem]

Does the envenom that gives me the elaborate planning buff benefit from it?

[humble ginkgo]

show pic of ur ui

[wise fiber]

woa! thank you

[shy dust]

Yes

It’s much easier to parse if you don’t have to hold

Doing around 0 dps for multiple seconds makes parsing much harder

If you afk in p1 for like 30 seconds that’s pretty painful

[pale fossil]

Yeah, I'm sure I fucked up the fight a lot, but holding DPS in both P1 and P2 and losing a Vendetta cast because of CD timings ensured I got a pretty bad parse haha

[limpid plinth]

Nobody should see one stealthy ram padding in p1 tho 😉

[echo geyser]

its so weird when u check echo dmg - doing 74k total

then top ones are 800 -900k

lol

[amber mountain]

I honestly think WoW's customizable UI is 99% of the reason it's held up so well

[echo geyser]

sbs or fok have prio when those spawn btw?

[pale fossil]

I hit the tanking dummy in the screenshot by accident and died LOL

[humble ginkgo]

thats not a weakaura bro

you just have ur bar

in the middle of ur screen

[pale fossil]

I know

[humble ginkgo]

whatever works for you

I have a friend who does that

[mellow pier]

I do that

[humble ginkgo]

this is fucked

[pale fossil]

LOL

Why you hating on my progress bars man

[humble ginkgo]

also

ur combo points

being on the left

[limber lion]

Imagine dissing someone's UI

[humble ginkgo]

far from ur "weakaura"

[limber lion]

When it's about preference

smh

[humble ginkgo]

no its just like

[gusty mirage]

your timer bars hurt my soul

[pale fossil]

OUCH

[humble ginkgo]

not optimized

or whatever u say

[mellow pier]

Anyone else put cp above nameplates?

[gusty mirage]

I vaguely remember you and @balmy condor laughing at my plater profile

[mellow pier]

Or am I the only one

[balmy condor]

just wait till you open guy's stream

[pale fossil]

Bro they shimmer when they're in a pandemic window

It's OD

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

No pics, didn't happen

[spice spire]

Standard UI is bis

[gusty mirage]

I'm not searching through thousands of messages Cev

you win

[pale fossil]

On the real, the plan is to delete the progress bars, move the bars to the bottom, and use a WA eventually, but I didn't want to relearn a UI during prog.

When I'm already bad af.

[mellow pier]

I made my own UI

[shy dust]

It’s unfortunate that

[mellow pier]

And WAs

[gusty mirage]

I don't mind default UI, it's nice

[shy dust]

Pad damage like that isn’t filtered

[mellow pier]

Very rewarding imo

[shy dust]

It really should be

Like drones were on Hivemind

[amber mountain]

I have my bars pulled up too, but they're also mostly transparent

mainly because I'm only getting started on WA and I've been building my own

[mellow pier]

My bars are mouse over

[echo geyser]

at least boss dmg is valuable even tho u cant get a nice overall parse

[humble ginkgo]

oh I seen his ui

pisses me off

[amber mountain]

I'd throw out a screenshot, but i'm not at that PC since i'm doing the work thing. And this Mac I'm on, while it has WoW, that's only for playing the AH

[pale fossil]

I don't think I'll miss having the progress bars because I have the bleeds/poisons on the plater profile, but I'll need to get a WA (unless the standard handles it) that tells me when SnD is in pandemic.

[humble ginkgo]

doesnt he have that shit in the top left

its funny because it works for him I guess

[limber lion]

reee someone doesn't play with the exact same ui as I do

ree

bad

[humble ginkgo]

never said bad

it works for him

just not appealing to my eyes

I am very ocd and need everything to be like perfect

more like adhd

[limpid plinth]

Need to make UI discussion channel here or something 😄

[shy dust]

AtrocityUI is the only acceptable one

Anything else is punishable by death

[humble ginkgo]

I started using atrocity rae

[mellow pier]

Is that the one max uses?

[humble ginkgo]

[wind totem]

Does the envenom that gives me the elaborate planning buff benefit from it?

[shy dust]

Or having to one trick outlaw

Yeah Nurux

[humble ginkgo]

after making fun of it that one time

[mellow pier]

Mines very similar

[humble ginkgo]

I have both fragnance and atrocity and they are both amazing

[mellow pier]

But I made it in BFA

[gusty mirage]

any finisher

[earnest remnant]

[humble ginkgo]

we really need a ui channel

a lot of class discords have it

[mellow pier]

I used skullflowers from mop thru legion

[humble ginkgo]

but I guess we have !WA

for a reason

[echo geyser]

even when EP isnt active u get the 10% dmg on Envenom?

[pale fossil]

@humble ginkgo Do you have a screencap of those?

[amber mountain]

https://i.redd.it/jy4mtpea0pl21.jpg
to be clear, not my UI

[balmy condor]

wait so guy's UI tilts you but it's fine cause it works for him, but then alno's is objectively bad?

[limber lion]

Not this shit again.

[humble ginkgo]

no

[willow eagle]

The true classic experience

[humble ginkgo]

if it works for him

its good for him

I just wouldnt use it

[gusty mirage]

I misunderstood his question, the originating finisher wouldn't benefit from EP if the tooltip is to believed

[humble ginkgo]

bc it triggers my adhd

I probably misworded it

[humble ginkgo]

bis

[pale fossil]

Mine becomes a real mess when I've got raid frames and Angry Assignments up lmfao

[echo geyser]

cause on outlaw for example CTO conduit gives u benefit from the buff u would get on the finisher

[gusty mirage]

so if you proc EP w/ envenom at least I don't think it would benefit from EP

[echo geyser]

so u actually have to be fast before EP falls off then

[amber mountain]

My healing UI on my shammy is the only one that doesn't fade the party/raid frames

[echo geyser]

in the initial vanish > envenom

[gusty mirage]

but its blizz + their tooltips are always wrong

[echo geyser]

tbh

it wouldnt make sense if u got it on the initial one

cause that would just be "perma 10% dmg on finishers

[gusty mirage]

yea

[pale fossil]

I'm gonna tinker with mine now cause I don't like it haha

[amber mountain]

See, now Alno's all self-conscious about their UI

[dull cloak]

do you guys track EP buff and clip your envenoms with 0.5 left on EP

[mellow pier]

U don’t always have to envenom for EP

A lot of times u need other finishers

[dull cloak]

yea but just saying if u have to cast envenom

[limber lion]

Yeah, but it's generally better to just follow the normal pooling rules

[mellow pier]

Just don’t over cap energy or cp

And you will be fine

[limber lion]

If you starve yourself trying to do that, it's a lot worse when you Shiv and have no energy left.

[dull cloak]

cuz usually if i have to wait for ep, im naturally already pooling

jusy a habit i pick up since legion

[primal bronze]

Heyo, just go started on my rogue again after some time off and dont wanna spend endless hours on being behind in renown, any1 know what covenant is looking good for 9.1?

[pale fossil]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[echo geyser]

@limber lion u know what t ype of numbers is solid on p2 sire?

[limpid plinth]

Atm necro

[primal bronze]

Major diff in % or is venth still fine?

[spice spire]

Necro and venth seem good. Venth still best ST, but Necro works flexibly and is close ST but pulls ahead with multiple targets

[limpid plinth]

Venthyr is good too necro just little better on aoe

[dull cloak]

i do when i can during regular rotation. Obviously not possible all the time, like before and during shiv

depends on if muts crit too

[primal bronze]

alrite, i might just stay venth then.. havent looked too much into the new raid, so dunno if its alot of aoe fights or not. But thx for the answers 😄 @spice spire @limpid plinth

[spice spire]

Any time papi best of luck

[wind totem]

so is that a yes?

[gusty mirage]

it shouldn't, sorry I forgot to reping you. The envenom that procs EP shouldn't benefit from EP

[wind totem]

alright

thanks

[limber lion]

On Mythic?

[echo geyser]

yep

[spice spire]

9k chad inc

[limber lion]

It depends how hard you pad and where you want your damage to go.

I did 9k in overall, but that's not really realistic in progression.

[echo geyser]

is there pad rly in p2?

[limber lion]

Yes, that's where most of the damage comes from on parses.

Not p1.

[humble ginkgo]

hitting the ads that get the dmg buff

right

is padding

[mellow pier]

Also depends on where u have to use cds

[echo geyser]

o damn

[humble ginkgo]

as outlaw you can just stick to boss entire time with flurry

[echo geyser]

i never even thought of t hat

i been hitting boss

[humble ginkgo]

since flurry dmg is increased

[limber lion]

Well as sin you should be dotting everything up regardless

That's like the main point Sin

[echo geyser]

yeah dot but u could envenom with dmg increase right?

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's not really worth it

Just stick to the boss my man.

[echo geyser]

hm i see

skip the padder

[limber lion]

Ruptures on the cabalists, but stick to the boss.

Even I don't Envenom the Cabalists.

[echo geyser]

im just curious what i can improve then in p2, im ahead quite a bit of raid but not sure about other rogues

[solid mica]

This just made me lol at work while a meeting was going on lol

[humble ginkgo]

well its just a way that people pad

as outlaw I used to do that but didnt really see a dmg increase

I saw a dmg increase when I woiuld tunnel everything in boss and have bf up every time

instead of focusing adds and cleaving boss

[echo geyser]

im rly not good with logs so i wouldnt even know if someone was doing that

[humble ginkgo]

idk man every single sin logs ive seen

[echo geyser]

seems biggest diff is mainly in p1 but u guys said it doesnt matter

[humble ginkgo]

in p3

they do same dmg as me or a bit higher

[echo geyser]

ive got 70k echo dmg while top ones are around 200k

seems i need to press ct on them

[humble ginkgo]

other than 99 parses on sire for sin

but average like 70-80

is around same dmg I do

in p3

[shy dust]

People are wild

For saying it doesn’t matter

On top of echo damage difference

Holding damage is big

[humble ginkgo]

Why would you hold?

unless its to not push early*

but thats max like 10 sec of holding

[shy dust]

Not 10 seconds

My guild did the boomer strat we would call hold like 30-40 seconds

[humble ginkgo]

yea cringe

I just want sire kills man

[shy dust]

To say p1 doesn’t matter is wild though

[humble ginkgo]

I want to parse on that hoe

[shy dust]

It matters and it’s one thing that’s pretty hard to change

[echo geyser]

do u just full sbs sire b tw in p1 with gemstones and use FoK for cp gen on echos?

[humble ginkgo]

p1 dmg 100% matters lol

[shy dust]

You can’t actively do more aoe damage

[humble ginkgo]

I think when they say it doesnt matter its not like

dont do dmg in p1

[shy dust]

That’s dependent on your guildees doing less not you playing better

[amber mountain]

You're welcome!

[humble ginkgo]

its more like

for prog only thing that matters really is ur p3 dmg

[shy dust]

Usually can just hold vanish on opener

[humble ginkgo]

so if ur doing shit dmg p1 doesnt rlly matter

bc you will pop off

[shy dust]

To like FOK ct fok

Or something along those lines

[echo geyser]

ah yeh cause u dont care about lining up them again in p1

[shy dust]

Outside of that the adds just need to actually live for a bit of time

[echo geyser]

do u ever rupture them or just funnel envenoms into boss then?

[shy dust]

If you have a DH it’s pretty hard

You can probably rupture them if they don’t instantly die

[simple wadi]

You can try and rupture the echo that’s outta the pack sometimes - might live for a couple seconds depending on how your group lines is CDs

[solid mica]

Anyone got the skinny on how to make. My plater profile show pandemic windows on dots? Saw this earlier in chat

[limber lion]

Just use someone else's profile that has the functionality built in and build from there

It's a mod/script

[humble ginkgo]

I had the time to do 1 gcd before the echoes died

we had soo much aoe

[spice spire]

Unable to pad

Super unlucky

[humble ginkgo]

3 hunters, 2 dk 3 mages 1 warr

shit died insta

[solid mica]

Is CT also 8capped pike FoK?

Like

[normal crater]

Yea

[dull cloak]

real gamers flex p3 damage

[pale fossil]

UI Revamp complete. This is gonna take some getting used to but I like it way more.

[humble ginkgo]

what do you use now?

[shy dust]

AtrocityUI

[humble ginkgo]

nice

atrocity assa ui is rlly good

I dislike his outlaw ui though

[gloomy fern]

rae do u get paid to promote him or what

[humble ginkgo]

oh nice

affenar is good

I dont like vendetta placement though

could tweak it a lil

[gloomy fern]

why is ur health bars so high though

very ugly

[humble ginkgo]

what

[pale fossil]

PLEASE lmao

[humble ginkgo]

A lot of ppl's health bars are like that

[gloomy fern]

doesnt make it less ugly

[humble ginkgo]

outlaw ui

[gloomy fern]

like the yellow part down is enough

look like a frag fanboi enjoyer

[humble ginkgo]

sin ui

fanboi

complication??

[limber lion]

Are we still talking about UI's

[echo geyser]

[humble ginkgo]

possibly

I get called fanboi to every streamer I talk about

blah blah blah

[spice spire]

You all on it today? Huh

[humble ginkgo]

using that word like it means nothing

[hollow river]

Is that atrocity?

[scenic meteor]

anyone know where i can get a good dagger from mythics which i can upgrade with valor?

[hollow river]

I don’t like the health frame how tf you supposed to see that

[hollow river]

PF has one

And mists I think

[scenic meteor]

ok thanks

[hollow river]

Check adventure journal or wowhead

[scenic meteor]

ahh yeah thanks

[strange python]

guys big decision what covenant i go

[spice spire]

Venthyr or Necrolord are both solid picks. Assuming you mean for assassination, Necrolord is a bit more flexible for us

[limber lion]

Necrolord.

[strange python]

for pvp is viable tho... i cant really decide

[kindred rapids]

It sounds like the ST gap between Venthyr and Necrolord is closing in 9.1?

[warm parcel]

given theres no changes ye

only fixing spike critting helps necro a little

[humble ginkgo]

yes it is

[limber lion]

Aight can we stop with the UI talk for a minute.

Cheers

[humble ginkgo]

#UI-talk channel

bis

[hollow river]

#pvp would know better. But as far as I know most Sin rogues that pvp are going necro. Venthyr can be decent on demand “burst” though. Depends on what comp you play etc I’d ask in pvp channel.

[south belfry]

My ui is a dumpsterfire and i'd like to figure it out lol

[limber lion]

Pls no more.

Feel free to scroll up and see what they talked about

[south belfry]

I mean yeah thats why i said it

[foggy ember]

You guys think 9.1 heroic end boss daggys will be better than mythic 15 vault daggys?

[limber lion]

We're not sure yet

[shy dust]

probably not in main hand

[limber lion]

They haven't tuned the daggers quite well yet.

Currently they're looking awful

[shy dust]

gonna have to be a strong effect to beat maind hand dps

[hollow river]

Rogue not allowed to be stronk

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

[teal bluff]

Super new to ass rogue from outlaw, and was wondering. Do we use sinister strike?

[balmy condor]

we don't have sinister strike

we have mutilate

[teal bluff]

Oh but there was a passive that says sinister strike energy cost reduced by 5

[hollow river]

We have ambush

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

O.o

[limber lion]

You're probably playing Outlaw

[strange python]

the venthyr one is only about haste ?

[teal bluff]

Ok nvm then, ty

[limber lion]

And big single target dps.

[hollow river]

In 9.1 gives vers too

[limber lion]

No it doesn't.

The legendary does

but flag itself doesn't.

[hollow river]

This is true

Don’t hurt me

[balmy condor]

yeah no clue what this is

[royal lantern]

mate, ik that so well

ct not even finished its animation/1tick and all are dead

[soft shale]

if you have a dh echoes are donezo

[scenic meteor]

necro still best for 9.1 right? levelling it to 40 anyway rn

[limber lion]

Literally any class other than Rogue

[limber lion]

Currently yeh

But it's not 100% sure yet

Anything can happen.

We're still missing some things

[scenic meteor]

well ill level necro, my venthyr is alraeady 40

[limber lion]

Yeh, Necro is very likely still bis for aoe encounters

doubt it'll change too too much

[supple panther]

Whats the % difference between Necro and Venthyr in aoe?

Large?

[limber lion]

Large.

There is no %.

It depends on the size of the pack, your character, legendary choice etc.

But it's quite a steep difference.

[royal lantern]

aoe/cleave necro beats the other covenants by a really big ammount, while also beeing only slightly behind venthyr in pure st

wich is why most people recommend it

[sonic schooner]

Tonight was the first reclear, that was shit fun

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

knowing the main RL wsnt here

[supple panther]

Oh shoot I thought it was the other way around

[limber lion]

I need to find a guild to do some bosses with next week whilst we're taking a break

[supple panther]

where they were both close in aoe but Venth ST was ways ahead

[limber lion]

Nah

[soft shale]

crit on sbs made the st even closer

so its less than 100 now

[limber lion]

Venth and Necrolord are already under 100 dps

With the crit change it's more like 50-60

But yeh, sbs is too good of a covenant ability.

[soft shale]

ya its only quite far if you're a beastgeared boy like rae with min max iqd

[limber lion]

It's not even close when compared to flag on AoE.

[supple panther]

alright time to swap

[soft shale]

also iqd gets omega slapped

so necro is super safe choice

for assa at least

[limber lion]

Well I am myself as well, but it's around 100 dps for me

[soft shale]

ye i know im also at 229

[limber lion]

Actually not really

[soft shale]

but i dont have glad daggers

so that one is like -50 or so

[limber lion]

Almost 200 now that I think about it

nevermind.

But anyways, Necro is just the better choice for most things

Just go Necro.

If you want to play Sub on the side, then Venth is the better choice.

[royal lantern]

+fleshcraft is worlds better then door of shit

srsly, door of shadows is so bad

the only good thing door has

is interupting the invisible spiders in plaguefall if you miss a stun there

[kindred rapids]

I used it sometimes

Was handy on Xymox and Council

[nimble tartan]

aoe

😆

[limber lion]

I used Door actively on Sire progress

Once to get to Baron

and once right after entering p3 mirror realm

but that's about it

[fleet atlas]

im making the switch from outlaw to assassination and looking to switch covenants. Was gonna switch to venthyr but i heard a rumor that necro could pull ahead in 9.1. should i wait and see? also its important to note my concern is which is best in raid not keys i just get ksm and im good so i dont need to min max

[limber lion]

Currently Venthyr is pretty much only better in pure single target.

Necrolord wins in any situation where you have multiple targets

[soft shale]

necro is definetely the play next tier for assa/outlaw the loss of st is not substantial like cev said

[limber lion]

We still don't have everything in 9.1 implemented in the ptr, so anything can change.

[fleet atlas]

ok ty

[limber lion]

Necrolord is a safe bet for now.

[fleet atlas]

also since im here. Is doomblade still looking like the go to for raid for 9.1?

[warm parcel]

This is cause you dont get mut right away

[limber lion]

Currently yes, on the cloak slot.

But again, anything can change from domination sockets to legendary slots to legendary tuning.

[fleet atlas]

ok ty

[nimble tartan]

im going boss buster st chad venthyr only

[warm parcel]

Mut is leartn at lvl 12

[limber lion]

Good for you.

[nimble tartan]

its gonna be sick bro its like im a support main doin the good dirty work

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

Cev

[limber lion]

Sup

[hollow river]

Any secret Chinese sin tactics for Xymox prog

[limber lion]

Not really.

[hollow river]

Didn’t think so

[limber lion]

Don't get hit by traps, cloak ghosts/traps at the same time

Pray that your team mates get hit by traps to get more cleave

[hollow river]

Slam shiv and ambush procs. Do mechanics. Kill boss.

[limber lion]

Pretty much

[hollow river]

Lmao

More cleave

Do that actually count in logs? Unlike huntsman shades etc

[limber lion]

Yes

[hollow river]

We’re melee heavy too so I’m all over their asses if I see it happen

[limber lion]

I mean, you have to kill the traps, it's not exactly super padding

But then again, no one's forced to walk into them :p

[hollow river]

Anything to catch up to the 222 rogue in our raid :’)

[gusty mirage]

Just press your buttons harder. I believe in you now you just have to believe in you

[hollow river]

Bro ngl this guy is giga good

[fervent rune]

blindside or elaborate planning for raid? Top logs all use elaborate planning but all guides say blindside

[hollow river]

Depends on fight

[gusty mirage]

Yeah but we don’t know him, we know you. Therefore I’m on #teambackstab

[limber lion]

Depends on your covenant and the fight.

[hollow river]

Blindside + deeper for pure ST

[limber lion]

Generally on fights with adds you want EP/Vig

EP/Vig is fairly close to BS/DS for Necrolords, so it's a safe bet on single target as well.

[hollow river]

Yep^

[limber lion]

You can sim it to see how they perform.

[hollow river]

Letsfuckingoooooo

[balmy condor]

are you ready to EP/deeper game

[fervent rune]

i play necro

[limber lion]

no

[balmy condor]

yes

[gusty mirage]

My body is ready

[kindred rapids]

EP / vigor for sludge too

[limber lion]

:(

[hollow river]

Exsanguinate gaming 9.2?

I heard

[kindred rapids]

EP / DS for huntsman

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

Extra hot take: Venom rush gaming 9.2

[limber lion]

Alright, it's too hot in here, time to go take a shower and then to bed

[gusty mirage]

But that’s because they bring back the OG venom rush

[hollow river]

Bro hidden blades gaming 9.2

[soft shale]

tbh if they make envenom work with zold

[limber lion]

gn

[soft shale]

take care

i will work hard on osu! on your behalf

[gusty mirage]

Gn cutie

[hollow river]

Night buddy

[soft shale]

[dawn ivy]

what was old school venom rush?

just extra energy off our normal energy regen yeah?

[gusty mirage]

Extra energy from venomous

[still dove]

poison ticks on bled targets refunded

[soft shale]

3 extra energy for each venom wounds tick

[crude glade]

What legendary should i craft? Doomblade or Zoldyk?

[hollow river]

Depends on what you wanna do

[limber lion]

Both, Zoldyck for m+, Doomblade for raid.

[soft shale]

doomblade st/pvp zoldyck for execute m+

[limber lion]

[dawn ivy]

id be fine with a hyper ST talent like venom rush if it refunded something actually strong

[soft shale]

it was completely broken for 4 years

it had to rest

[hollow river]

Imagine zoldycks MFD in 3v3

[crude glade]

Ty 😄

[shy dust]

Alacrity too broken

Alacrity being added made sure it was an instant lock for assa

[hollow river]

Let someone else open, then you mfd rupture/SBS garrote

Dead

[soft shale]

30% is not a lot of damage on burst

you get more from doom because of sbs dot anyway

as zold does not work on envenom for some reason

[hollow river]

What about poison bomb

Do U even play PB in pvp

Feel like CT would be the move

[soft shale]

no you play pb on pvp

you dont have globals/energy for ct

[hollow river]

How do our poison bleeds work?

Similar to doomblade bleed?

[nimble tartan]

its like cms

[hollow river]

Cms?

[balmy condor]

what?

[hollow river]

like when you apply poison

it ticks, and has a duration?

[balmy condor]

ye

[hollow river]

does it stack or

[balmy condor]

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[hollow river]

ok this is what i was asking if it had a duration/pandemic or if stacked damage like doomblade bleed

(:

duration always the same?

i assume.

[balmy condor]

yeah

doomblade is the weird one

everything else is just overwrite

[soft shale]

yes doomblade uses a relic of the past that we called rolling ignite

basically you dont lose damage

the dot overwrites itself to full duration and does extra damage while the last one does its full duration

[hollow river]

got it ty

just curious

so like in 3 target

would you make it a point to watch if poison is up and FoK to reapply?

because i definitely don't do that and idk if it'd be worth it

[soft shale]

yes you can use fok to reapply on 3

you always want bleeding targets to have a poison on them

[hollow river]

right

so in m+ def want to try and watch poisons on 3 targets

and i'm assuming Council as well

instead of rolling garrote and rupture on 2 targets, could you theoretically FoK all 3 for poison bleeds instead? until first boss dies.

or would that be a padding loss.

[soft shale]

you definetely keep garrote on all targets possible

idk about rupture

[balmy condor]

Bleeds without poisons aren’t worth ever

If you bleed, you gotta poison

We bleed everything that lives long enough

For prio we only bleed until we’re energy saturated around 5 bleeds

On council that’s usually pretty rough so it’s typically 4

In m+ you don’t really need to watch poisons, usually applying/reapplying bleeds to the targets will give you enough auto’s to apply the poison again as well

[hollow river]

yes i remember all of this

[hollow river]

except

[balmy condor]

Except

….

Except what

[hollow river]

thats the only part i don't remember reading ever

:<

[balmy condor]

Well yeah

Gar/rupture without poisons

Is giga bad

You get no energy back

[echo geyser]

why?

o

[hollow river]

but yeah autos applying poison igetiget

O?

[echo geyser]

whats the trick on sire mythic then

how u do it in p2?

[balmy condor]

Wdym

[echo geyser]

i was just mouse over garrote rupture

does that have chance of applying poison?

[balmy condor]

I mean if you wanna do that, you gotta tab mut on 2, fok on 3

To apply poisons

Mouseover gar/rup doesn’t apply poisons

Cause gar/rup doesn’t have any instant damage attached to it

It’s all tick damage

[hollow river]

yeah your auto attacks can apply while you apply your bleeds(before or after)

[balmy condor]

Yeah except he’s using a Mouseover

[hollow river]

not as you apply

so

[balmy condor]

In which case he’s not autoing them

[hollow river]

it doesn't make th e new mob his target then

[balmy condor]

He’s still autoing his target

[hollow river]

ah

i see

hm

mouseover bad then

[echo geyser]

yeah ive been staying sire

[hollow river]

deletee

[echo geyser]

maybe thats how u improve p2 dmg then

[hollow river]

i'm joking

[balmy condor]

I find Mouseovers for bleeds to be super awkward

[hollow river]

same

i know a couple sin rogues who do it

[balmy condor]

Only time it was really useful was with eye of command during legion

[hollow river]

what is the logic with Muti only on huntsman shades

[balmy condor]

That’s log cheese

[hollow river]

shade damage can be filtered out tho

[balmy condor]

The damage to shades from doomblade isn’t filtered

[hollow river]

O?

[balmy condor]

So you mut, which on logs is reduced damage

But the doomblade is from the mut damage

So the mut still does huge damage

Which makes the doomblade do huge damage

And that then isn’t filtered

[hollow river]

wowzers

glitch in the matrix

[echo geyser]

whispyr u mind checking my sire log from today and give any pointers

[hollow river]

i parse 100ilvl on huntsman no cheese

[echo geyser]

i tried ct for first time

at least now i know maybe mouseover in p2 might not be best idea

i didnt even realize mobs had to be poisoned for energy regen

[balmy condor]

Probably nothing for sire specifically, I’m 3/10 xD

[echo geyser]

[balmy condor]

Can probably dm them to @limber lion

He’s got the fight stuff on lock

[echo geyser]

fok/muti isnt 100% chance to poison right?

or

[balmy condor]

Nop

Same chance as normal

[thorny pond]

can someone with a 7k patchwerk sim link their's so I can compare

[nimble tartan]

with or without windfury

[hollow river]

search the channel for ceverion sim

nvm

[thorny pond]

W/o

[echo geyser]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hoZQsdfLpuohHtEfmHz3u3

[thorny pond]

Thank you kindly

[balmy condor]

Ramfam the giga juicer

Outsimming cev

[echo geyser]

when u ask for a 7k sim without windfury as necro

[balmy condor]

[echo geyser]

thats pretty much bis

lol

[nimble tartan]

im only 50 higher dps venthyr trash bro

[balmy condor]

Ep vig as well

Ungodly

[oak sky]

[echo geyser]

yep blind deeper sims better but too slow for me

[nimble tartan]

who else only use agi pots

[whole mason]

I heard the nerf to necro leggo today. What happened...?

[echo geyser]

i used to use phantom fires but wasnt so consistent now only agi

[soft shale]

old news 1 spike less

so now quite bad