assassination

[thorny pond]

What is the NS build now? CT out of stealth?

[balmy condor]

yeah rupture on 1-2, ct on 3

[thorny pond]

Playing MA with that?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[thorny pond]

Poggers, thanks boss

[balmy condor]

np

[wanton rose]

Can anyone recommend a weakaura for tracking garotte/rupture pandemics? The only WAs I can find are either full HUD replacements, or are so old that WA gives me errors and they "Can't be modernized"

[hollow river]

Look up “the red rogues progress bars”

And you can also get Plater profiles that track it or make one yourself.

I use a HUD, progress bar trackers and plater all 3 lol.

[wanton rose]

I get sort of intimidated trying to make them

[hollow river]

Ah

[wanton rose]

there's so many options and things

and I have a smol brain and limited free time

[hollow river]

I use Afenars rogue WA HUD

The progress bar trackers are nice tbh

https://wago.io/k_KNOiJ0U

They change to the remaining duration on whatever you target. Easy peripheral vision pandemic timer.

[wanton rose]

oh that's cool

I just looked up plater, that seems interesting and helpful

[hollow river]

It can be nice for m+ with multiple targets.

You can download Plater add on and import profiles.

https://wago.io/t6bI_B9wi

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[pale fossil]

[balmy condor]

I forgot

[pale fossil]

Oh that wasn’t about the log

I worry about your sanity doing Twisted Corridors willingly

[balmy condor]

needed to get the mount

[pale fossil]

Shadehound Gang

[wanton rose]

oh man! I just installed this and tried it on a combat dummy

it's the best thing ever

thank you so much

[balmy condor]

:P

I take it you like my plater then

[wanton rose]

It's so good! Making my life easier ❤️ ❤️

[balmy condor]

[pale fossil]

@balmy condor I’d still take the log review if you’re willing, but ndb if you don’t wanna.

[balmy condor]

yeh go for it

[pale fossil]

Hungering or Shriekwing?

[balmy condor]

I can look at both

[pale fossil]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gnYDk1Mmdv78f39t#fight=16&type=damage-done&source=47

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/j6mZJ2WQtYgfLrFV#fight=3&type=damage-done

I suspect part of the reason for the Shriek parse being so low is kill timer (he got three Blood Shrouds), but I’m sure I also fucked up plenty.

Specifically the timer between Vendetta and IQD felt weird.

[balmy condor]

yeah you missed a cast on IQD with hungering as well

[pale fossil]

Fack

[balmy condor]

there's also this awkward period of time at the end where you seemingly forgot to cast shiv

which isn't great

[pale fossil]

Hmm. At one point I got it in my head that I needed to not Shiv right before an Expunge, but that’s way too long.

Maybe I need a “hey dummy press shiv” WA

[balmy condor]

had some wasted cp on bone spike/garrote/mut

which isn't too bad but still sucks

the energy waste seems fine

out of curiosity what do you sim for

[pale fossil]

If I’m -2 CP, SBS will cap me and I might waste a CP using Mut, right?

[balmy condor]

yeah but that's due to seal fate, not the ability

I'm talking about overcap on the ability

[pale fossil]

Gotcha. So I used it on -1 CP a couple times.

[balmy condor]

yeh

[pale fossil]

Like what do I use to sim? Just patchwerk generally, filtering out stuff like WFT I likely won’t get.

[balmy condor]

sure

[pale fossil]

Ah, not at my comp so I don’t have one handy.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nUXGSwSHpLovM68LKENUe1 this is the last one I have but it’s a bit older.

[balmy condor]

yeah so what I see is the 1-2 missing shivs, a bit of overcap, some avoidable downtime, some more ilvl to be had, no potion, a missed iqd cast, aside from that shopping list of minor things

actually looks pretty fine

[pale fossil]

Thanks! Appreciate it.

[balmy condor]

you also ran CT on shirek, I'm guessing forgot to swap

[pale fossil]

I was with a random PUG (later found out it was a guild) so I grabbed CT thinking it unlikely that anyone would have a Codex

[balmy condor]

i see

[pale fossil]

And I know CT over PB is a bigger deal on Huntsman than the inverse on the other two

But yeah, would normally run PB.

My guild disbanded today so I was trying to get some better parses to build my resume haha

[sullen garden]

Sire prog, Shiv on CD on primary target?

[balmy condor]

yes

[pale fossil]

I could be wrong here, but I think you wait to Shiv until bleeds are up when you’re opening on a horsemen?

[balmy condor]

just rupture

[weary loom]

Guys , i'm new to sin. but been asked to change for sin for denathrius 😦

Saw top 1 rogue using thoes talents, is it worth?

[balmy condor]

if you're progging, would suggest blindside deeper instead

[weary loom]

we're progging, but they "commanded me for sin"

even when my olaw its full bis right now, i'm simming if its worth changing

[sacred isle]

Outlaw has no execute. So if you want to do a proper comparison you should sim execute pw

[sullen garden]

Why deeper over vigor for prog?

[sacred isle]

Blindside is generally always paired with deeper

[weary loom]

Omfg, my outlaw sim it's doing way higher dps o.O

Single target

[sacred isle]

Can you link the sim. Pretty sure u didn’t sim execute.

[weary loom]

yes sir 1min

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xB4Er3WahT5dvJ8SpBcvnj

This is my sin

i'm simming my olaw rn

ive simmed with 2 daggers ( bc i had only 1 rofl )

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oJTACrZifjDJBrakuLv7xb

This is my olaw

[sacred isle]

You are using sub conduits

You have slow oh. Can’t mutilate without 2 daggers

Should use heirmir with sudden frac

[weary loom]

sub conduits?

o.O?

tought couldnt use them

[weary loom]

Yea , thats why ive simmed with gear compare using another dagger xD

[drifting cloud]

your assa sim is marileth with sub potencies lol

[weary loom]

/facepalm xD

[sacred isle]

I hate gear compare. Prefer importing items to topgear.

[weary loom]

got unluck

first dagger for months

[sacred isle]

Also couldn’t see any execute input. Can’t remember the proper command but think it’s execute=“1” or something

Also switch to deeper

[weary loom]

i got scared, farming daggers for nothing

[lean coral]

hes also not in heimir

for sin

[sacred isle]

Read up mid 🙂

[weary loom]

change conduits all time from sin/olaw 😛

[hazy crater]

yeah those current comparisons are just useless atm

[sacred isle]

You don’t need to change in game to sim it

[balmy condor]

I'm gone for 5 minutes

lmao

[weary loom]

i'll make a shot, but still have the issue about no having both daggers rofl

[lean coral]

im kinda amazed he simmed that high with 1 dagger

[hazy crater]

its not 1 dagger

[mystic peak]

he didn't, the sim had two

[lean coral]

ah i see it now

[weary loom]

i'm leveling my last 2 pieces for full Olaw bis xD

my stats might crush me on sin =\

23/13/18/21

Rip haste

[balmy condor]

that's fine

[weary loom]

changing leggo ring, i'll use inerva

[lean coral]

if you sim sin with right conduits and soulbind it probs beats your outlaw sim

[weary loom]

with leggo hands, increased to 20% haste

[hazy crater]

swapping soulbind, using correct conduits and getting a dagger will definitely get you over that outlaw sim

and using the correct talents

[weary loom]

okay, i'll spam mists... AGAIN

[balmy condor]

big old bold

[strange python]

is flayedwing toxic a decent trinket?

[balmy condor]

No

[pure sinew]

At 220 is it equal or worse than phial

I'd imagine it's worse right

[torn atlas]

Absolutely haha

Assuming you mean equal ilvls for both.

[balmy condor]

I think a 226 flayedwing is worse than a 210 phial

Don’t quote me on it

Might be close

[ornate dawn]

Flayed is a bag of crap

[balmy condor]

But flayedwing is dogshit

[pure sinew]

That sounds like shit holy

[torn atlas]

It's also an extra buff you need to remember to keep up, and doesn't persist through death like your other poisons. So I wind up forgetting to renew it.

[balmy condor]

The best part is, as far as I know, they haven’t fixed the tooltip bug

[pure sinew]

What's the bug

[balmy condor]

So the buff on your character, the debuff on the enemy, the tooltip from the item, and the damage that details says it does

[pure sinew]

I haven't had a flayed wing since leveling

[balmy condor]

Are all different

[pure sinew]

So which one is the right one

[balmy condor]

Details pulls from the combatlog

So I’m gonna trust that

[solid mica]

When you guys look at logs ur just analyzing 1 pull yea?

[balmy condor]

Usually

Yes

[steady owl]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[frank comet]

was reading some earlier post about what to put zoldyck on. is still using the legs ok? or should i wait till 9.1

?

[limber lion]

Legs are fine.

[frank comet]

ty ty ^.^

[solid mica]

I dabble in all specs but main outlaw, been playing sin for sire prog and am probably fucking up cause I feel like I need to be spamming from playing outlaw, any shot youd peek at a lot at some point?

Log*

[gloomy knoll]

sin is not spammy

we actually hold our buttons

to extend envenom debuff time

or EP uptime

[solid mica]

Yeah, thats why I was asking cause I am probably doing something wrong

Whats the envenom debuff?

[shrewd night]

[gloomy knoll]

increased poison application

[weary marten]

read envenom tooltip ^^

[gloomy knoll]

but yea ^

[weary marten]

it's a buff also

[gloomy knoll]

yea it's not target locked

it's a buff on your char

[solid mica]

Yeah, I know bout that, but I wasnt sure if it was a uptime you track or anything

[gloomy knoll]

you do

but generally just hold your envenoms outside of shivs

until like 80-90 energy

and you'll be fine

[weary marten]

you want to have it at a maximum uptime ofc

that means pooling energy sometimes

[gloomy knoll]

we basically always delay the next envenom

until the limit

so we don't lose energy from overcapping and keep the maximum uptime on the buff

unless you in cd's / shiving

[weary marten]

kinda, and pool before shiv to fit a maximum number of envenom during nature damage increase

btw as necro the ST open is SBS SND Mut ?

[solid mica]

Yea

Thats what sims have it as

[balmy condor]

Yup

[solid mica]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WP6BQHDR2YNJtp1G/#type=damage-done&fight=25 thats one pf my better pulls I think on prog if anyone wants to tell me what I'm fuggin up

[weary marten]

you're parsing orange on Mythic, i think i have nothing to learn to you x)

[solid mica]

I mean that wasnt a kill andlike I said thats one of my better pulls where we are also lusting esrlt for prog

Early*

More concerned about uptimes/casts etc

[balmy condor]

7 shivs in 4:40 seems like a missed cast

[solid mica]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WP6BQHDR2YNJtp1G/#fight=26&type=damage-done that ones worse

[balmy condor]

At least 1 missed cast

But might be some jank with the drop

And stopping dps in p1 maybe

[wide hawk]

You got interesting secondary stat values 😮

[balmy condor]

Does he?

Doesn’t seem that weird to me

[solid mica]

Yeah, I need to get it through my head to shiv on cd no matter what unless vendetta within 10 yeah?

[wide hawk]

Crit: 378Haste: 830Mastery: 98Versatility: 585

how much haste does that give you?

[solid mica]

I do kain outlaw so I have more vers than is typical I would say, but also, the biggest dps increase of all time is not being dead :D

[balmy condor]

830 probably idk

Why does that matter

[balmy condor]

Yep

[wide hawk]

I'm just curious, it's not a comment on the log

[shrewd night]

Dis fucking honest

[amber kettle]

Wait am I able to throw in my logs here. I'm new to sin and pretty garbo

[balmy condor]

800 haste is fine, 1200 haste is fine, 400 haste is fine

Kinda really doesn’t matter

[solid mica]

I was uaing DS prepull for da buff Idk if thats worth or not

[balmy condor]

Yep that’s fine

[shrewd night]

Its worth, but its dishonest as fuck

[balmy condor]

It’s very minor on sin

[hazy crater]

literally unethical to DS prepull when stopping dps

[balmy condor]

But it is worth

[amber kettle]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FKLxGdBt7rNY8zjw/#fight=23&type=damage-done&source=4 Currently helping my old guild with Sludge and I was reading that one of the users said hold off on envenom? Or did i missread that

[solid mica]

im scrambling to eek out every margin I can to get CE since I had a lot of changes and this is my first mythic raiding tier so far

Thats why I ask tha pros :D

[balmy condor]

Looks like you’re not playing pillars hard enough

Shiv timing is kinda gigaweird

[amber kettle]

Won't even lie I'm just trying to do them on cd

and I tend to be pretty starved before pillars, should i just pool energy for em?

[balmy condor]

Well not to be rude or anything, but you’re not doing that either :P

[amber kettle]

Sadge

[balmy condor]

That log you linked had a shiv at 34, and the next at 82

So on sludge specifically

You try to vend/vanish very early in your opener like 3 seconds in

[solid venture]

should i craft zoldyck this late in the tier or just wait until next tier ? with the domination sockets and whatnot

[wide hawk]

do you have a 2nd on-use trinket like shadowgrasp totem? 🙂

[balmy condor]

And then the shiv timing is pull/between/pillar/between/pillar/between/pillar/between/pillar

[shrewd night]

Id wait, but yaknow

[balmy condor]

You hold basically everything for pillars

Pooling into pillars is good, holding 2 charges of sbs is good

But in general, shiv on cooldown is the way to go

Every 25 seconds just slam it

As Long as the Boss has rupture ticking on it, regardless of duration

You slam that shit

[limber lion]

You don't really need it for the raid anyways honestly. If you don't do M+, then there's really no reason to make em.

[amber kettle]

My opener goes something along the lines of SBS muta rupture (5 cp) sbs Muta s&d

[solid venture]

not even for next tier? the execute phase looks juicy with double sylvanas dagger tbh

[balmy condor]

Sbs snd mut

[limber lion]

Next tier might be different, but there's no reason to make it now if you're planning to use it for 9.1

[balmy condor]

Snd is much more important

[limber lion]

Slots/sockets/etc can change.

[amber kettle]

Also So I should reapply rupture every how often?

[solid venture]

ok i'll wait then :p ty

[balmy condor]

Anytime in pandemic

Before pillars on sludge

[limber lion]

Np :)

[shrewd night]

If the daggers were good, sure

[limber lion]

I was actually testing it out for an evening and it was only a gain on less than 2 minute encounters when playing with Nightstalker

So... pretty much never.

Only good on Sub.

[solid venture]

they aren't ? i haven't actually seen the damage values yet on the proc

[solid mica]

Lets say I'm being dishonest fan with DS prepull on sire and SnD before pull, what would my opener look like then with adds coming up?

Dan*

[shrewd night]

As the resident king of the 10% chance, being the wft bot, 10% is dog ass

[amber kettle]

Imma sound like a boffin but whats pandemic!?

[balmy condor]

The exact same except you don’t vanish because you can’t

[balmy condor]

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[shrewd night]

Whats good about being able to deal 1k damage 10% of the time?

[solid mica]

Well I open with sbs then just mut since snd is already up?

[balmy condor]

Yep

You just follow the same logic

[solid mica]

Ty

[balmy condor]

If you don’t have snd, snd
If you don’t have rupture, rupture
If you’re not in an MA window, garrote

So sbs mut rup gar seems fine

If you get unlucky and don’t cap

Sbs mut gar rup is Fine too

Don’t forget to make a bug report for deathly prepull though

I’m doing my part

[solid venture]

i play outlaw man, RNG is my middle name

[balmy condor]

Koffing plays enhance, he only knows totem

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

Deliver me your most dishonest parse hammer boi

Another delivery of WFT

[limber lion]

Yeaah and Vanish is just too good of a cooldown for Sin :'(

[amber kettle]

Thank you for the help!

[solid venture]

i wish my raid had WF

[shrewd night]

Nah, youll wish you did in 9.1. Now it barely makes a dent.

[balmy condor]

Any time!

[limber lion]

I just want a monk, a dh, a warrior and an enha shaman in our raid comp, is that too much to ask for?

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah

[limber lion]

I did a boost run without a monk, war and enha and let me tell you

that shit sucks.

[solid venture]

yea

the difference in damage is quite noticable

[shrewd night]

Ima toss it over to ot

[grim hornet]

hey guys, what legendary do we run as sin on m+? is doomblade ok?

[balmy condor]

“Can you look at my log?”
Sure, this looks fine, very minor things
“But I’m parsing green”
Yeah you’re not potting, you’re eating bfa food, your raid doesn’t have a war, a dh, nor a wft, and you killed shriek 10 seconds after second intermission
“But I played good”

[balmy condor]

Zoldyck

[limber lion]

Too real.

[grim hornet]

ok, ty!

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

I find that half of my log reviews these days are like “yeah you played fine, and yeah you parsed a 57, that’s normal”

Kinda weird

[shrewd night]

Ima see if I can find the dummy using bfa augments on prog

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

I've gotten pretty dumpster logs recently myself with a million things wrong

As if they've never even read a guide about rotations and what buttons to press in what order

Then I tell them to read a guide first and get used to the spec before asking for a log review

And they get mad about it

"If you're useless and can't help me with my log, can someone else?"

[balmy condor]

[shrewd night]

Ok

Im actually pissed

I just checked my logs

My blood fury macro has been busted since sludge

[limber lion]

It's a great thing you noticed it this early.

And not after 600 pulls on Sire.

[shrewd night]

[sacred isle]

How many 10k wipes you would have avoided!

[solid mica]

Out of curiosity, if I'm wearing zoldyck and die with an sbs on a boss, will it get amped by 30% in execute ?

[limber lion]

I don't think so. I think it'll deactivate legendary/talent effects when you're dead.

[solid mica]

What a blowout

Guess I cant die then :0

[limber lion]

Just don't die.

Yeah. :)

[shrewd night]

dw, reclear today, time to be a scumlord

[limber lion]

GIGA PARSES

[tulip nacelle]

600 shriek pulls?

[shrewd night]

[tulip nacelle]

[limber lion]

Just use every single scum tactic in the book to get good parses and then ditch the guild.

[shrewd night]

[green harbor]

are there any common mistakes for 2-target encounters? i'm not doing close to what i'm supposed to

[sonic schooner]

Just press your button harder D:

[limber lion]

Just keep your bleeds up on both targets (garrote, rupture and CT) at all times

Use your cooldowns on cooldown (including Shiv)

That's pretty much it.

Don't overcap resources, don't use generators at max-1

The same stuff as single pretty much, just need to make sure to keep all bleeds up on both targets.

[green harbor]

is the gap between poison bomb and CT big? i think i could use better garrote uptime, it's hard to remember since it has a cd

[fallen arch]

Depends on if the targets stand still

Which is almost never the case for both

[limber lion]

On 2+ targets it's quite big.

It's recommended to play CT on any fight with 2+ sustained targets.

[limber lion]

Why is it hard to remember? Garrote lasts for 18 seconds, the cooldown is only 6 seconds.

You don't even have to build combo points for it or anything

You pretty much just press it on cooldown on 2 targets.

[green harbor]

idk i'm just a subtlety andy, haven't played a lot of assa yet

[limber lion]

Fair enough. Just get a good weak aura set and nameplates, and you'll be good.

If you see your bleeds highlight/glow, then you know it's time to reapply them.

[fallow estuary]

Does Doomblade change the minimum targets for fok from 4 to a higher number?

[limber lion]

No it does not.

[raven vapor]

are stones still > oil for m+?

[sonic schooner]

i m looking for better nameplates to keep good tracking on assa m+ now, was not that big of a deal as outlaw

[spice spire]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[weary marten]

Take Ceverion plater ! it's nice !

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

Generally stones are just more consistent than oil/fire, so we tend to prefer them.

[weary marten]

when it comes to aoe stones are better right ?

because oils are great in ST if you combine with the good pot

[spice spire]

Oils are lottery runs.
Stones provide consistent DPS That’s really the big difference

[limber lion]

Yeah, they both perform very similarly in both ST and AoE, but Phantom Fire is just very inconsistent.

[sonic schooner]

what are ceve's plater? 😳

[limber lion]

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[sonic schooner]

u rock

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

yersteday did a DoS, i was totally lost on ardenweal side

[sonic schooner]

ok Ceve that s awsome uwu, tyvm just did 5mn of testing on dummies

[limber lion]

Great to hear it!

I spent some time making sure everything unnecessary is blacklisted.

Important trash to keep track of are highlighted in purple and important mobs to interrupt are highlighted in blue when you get to m+.

There's still emphasizing to be made for the important enrages/dispells, I'll get around to it some day.

[burnt star]

Cev. Are u still necro?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[sonic schooner]

yea i ve read everything on the webpage, sounds great

[burnt star]

How is your sbs usage on sludge

[limber lion]

I use it twice on the opener, then I save all SBS charges for the pillars.

[burnt star]

Thanks

[opaque mauve]

Il have a go of that profile, thanks Cev

[limber lion]

Hah, my pleasure.

[humble ginkgo]

do sin cd's align for every pillar?

M sludge

[sonic schooner]

pull p2 p4 since you normally lust the last pillar

[limber lion]

You hold Shiv/SBS charges for every pillar, Vendetta/Vanish for every other pillar.

[humble ginkgo]

wait u dont just use sbs on cd?

if im not playing gemstone

[limber lion]

No.

You save them for the pillars.

With or without gemstone.

[humble ginkgo]

Oh

what about any other fights

I dont really plan on playing it for sludge but just curious

[limber lion]

Why wouldn't you?

Sin is the better choice for Sludge and it's not close.

[humble ginkgo]

Idk man something about outlaw feels better on sludge

[limber lion]

Fair enough.

[humble ginkgo]

even though its all about critting on the pillar with your trinkets

[limber lion]

But yeah, anyways

[humble ginkgo]

I just like the cd usages

but I plan on playing it in the future

possibly next reclear

[limber lion]

You use sbs during gemstone windows

or during Shiv if you're playing Emeni.

[humble ginkgo]

prolly gonna go for a full clear on assa

just to get logs to see what I can do better

[limber lion]

Emeni is pretty bad though, so eh

[humble ginkgo]

I will swap to heirmir

I also didnt know to not run main mangle

[limber lion]

Yeah, where did you get that idea from?

Because it "sounds good"?

[weary marten]

i think if you play two potency in pvp you play shiv + mangle

but that's the only case where you would take mangle

[humble ginkgo]

yea

I didnt really think much of it though

just put up whatever 226 assa conduit I had

lol

[limber lion]

Welp

[cobalt pelican]

main and mangle is basically double dose pokkers

[sturdy merlin]

Hey guys i usually follow the sims when looking for upgrades but this time raidbots says that stone legion heraldry is better than my phial, even with no other heraldry in the party. Would you keep the phial or follow the sim no matter what it says ?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oMD4R9fmtvKb2KVtceYmEE

because it sounds weird to me that slg trinket sims higher than phial or chain (but chain in M+ is cursed anyway)

[limber lion]

I would recommend you to sim yourself in single target and 6-target 40s target dummy as well

Then you can make the decision after that

Dungeon Slice is a great reference generally, but because it's a mix of single target boss fight and aoe, it's hard to say why phial drops off and why Heraldry gets put ahead.

[sturdy merlin]

Ok so you want me to sim a M+ boss fight and a trash fight separately

i will do it now thanks

[limber lion]

Basically yes. Then you'll see more clearly why the trinket drops off.

It's likely because of high aoe.

Actually, I just did the sim myself and yes it drops off in AoE.

I would just recommend following the sim and just sticking to the herald trinket.

The vers is great in aoe, because it buffs all of your damage.

Phial is just an independent damage dealer itself.

A 226 Phial would likely pull ahead.

[sturdy merlin]

Yeah phial is only a minor dps upgrade on a 2 minutes boss while SLG trinket is a huge dps gain on trash fight so i will stick to slg 👍🏻 Thanks a lot for the help

226 phial is the only reason i keep doing 10 keys every week

[limber lion]

Haha, no worries mate.

Good luck on the grind!

[sturdy merlin]

[hoary fulcrum]

Cev, I use WeakAuras and ElvUI, Where do I paste the platter import? Is it a different thing? Or just post it into WA?

[limber lion]

It's a different addon, you need to download "Plater" from CurseForge as well.

[hoary fulcrum]

Perfect. Thanks man!

[limber lion]

Wago.io is just the common website used for sharing profiles for all of those addons.

No worries!

[hoary fulcrum]

Do i have to disable any Weakauras I have? Or do they work side-by-side?

[limber lion]

They work perfectly side-by-side. You might have to disable Elvui nameplates though, if you're using them.

[hoary fulcrum]

Can do. I'll make it work

[limber lion]

But a prompt will pop up when you install Plater, so no worries.

[hoary fulcrum]

Good stuff. The hero sin rogues need

[limber lion]

[raven vapor]

Hi Cev, does your plater profile use green plates for anything?

[limber lion]

No it does not. I've been debating whether or not I would make SBS turn the plates green, but I haven't.

There's only yellow, red, blue and purple - I think.

[raven vapor]

yeah i'm going to add that in, i like that functionality from Whispyr's profile

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure!

[hoary fulcrum]

How much worse is venth for sin?

I like the edginess

[limber lion]

It's quite a bit worse on multiple targets.

It's still our best covenant in pure single target though, so there's that.

But you can honestly play whatever you want, especially if you're not progressing high end mythic raiding or pushing 25's in m+

[humble ginkgo]

I think necro is just better because of the flexibility

[limber lion]

Necro is just better because it does more damage in every other situation, except pure single target.

[hoary fulcrum]

Ya i usually stick with 15-18, and heroic. my guild never tries mythic, which is sad but whatevs

[limber lion]

Yeah, you're honestly completely fine playing Venthyr then!

[hoary fulcrum]

Perfect. Worse case if i get the taste for more, ill switch. i have necor leveled to like 30 already anyways

[limber lion]

Yep! The change is not that bad honestly. I've gone back and forth twice now. :p

[hoary fulcrum]

just two dungeons each step really. not bad

[limber lion]

Yep and if you do the first portion the day before the reset and the second portion the day the reset drops, you'll be done with it in less than 2 days.

And, like you said, if you have your Renown already leveled to 30+, then you can jump to raid/m+ instantly

It's not too bad.

If you hate it, changing back will take 2 weeks though because you're locked into your new covenant for at least a week before you can pick up the quest to swap

I swapped to a covenant and immediately regretted it.

[limpid plinth]

aah 6months of vaults and 0 weapon 😄 feelsgoodman

[hoary fulcrum]

Oh! Good to know you're locked. I'm kinda a min/maxer and may have to just lean to necro anyways

[limber lion]

Same, dude. :)

[limber lion]

Yeah, I'm heavy on the dps and don't really care for any of the aesthetics.

[stark ravine]

Cev, your plater profile is awesome! Do you also have some sick WA's to go with them 😄 ?

[limber lion]

So I just go to the covenant that does the most damage and lets me pump the hardest. :p

[limber lion]

Hah, thanks! A lot of people apparently checking it out, love to see it.

I just use Afenar's weak aura pack that I have modified a little bit, here:

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[thorny pond]

What’s the link? You update it recently?

[gusty mirage]

Isn’t it true that if you look cool you do more damage though? @limber lion

[humble ginkgo]

what does your plater look like

[stark ravine]

Awesome, thanks!

[limber lion]

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[thorny pond]

Slut mog does most dps

[limber lion]

Uh, not really. Just some people were asking for it.

[frigid kestrel]

Cev's hard at work answering shit this morning i se

[limber lion]

Planning to do some updates to it at some point, but not yet.

[limber lion]

Someone's gotta do it. :p

[alpine latch]

This is the entire reason I'm race changing from goblin to BE

[frigid kestrel]

Imma sit back and see if i can think of a zinger, or just lurk and be impressed

[thorny pond]

Cool I like the glow. I copied yours when I made mine

[limber lion]

100%, that's why we're Belf's and not Orcs.

[limpid plinth]

calling it we get weapons from first vault in 9.1

[limber lion]

Praying for it, bro.

[limber lion]

Great!

[gusty mirage]

I knew it

[thorny pond]

Odd way to spell “bracers”

[limber lion]

I highly recommend just leeching someone else's profile

and then just modifying it to make it look the way you want

No one says you can't modify someone else's profile

[thorny pond]

I’ve used basically the same name plates since wrath and just update it with newest add on

[limber lion]

I've gotten some feedback about the texture of my nameplate, I honestly don't really care, but if you want to change it, feel free! :D

[gusty mirage]

Don’t think we don’t know that you’re a big brain gamer too you can’t hide from us

[spice spire]

That’s illegal

[limber lion]

I swapped to plater early on in Shadowlands.

I was an ElvUI baby for a long time.

[alpine latch]

I was looking at rogue sets and I forgot how fucking bad some of our sets looked.

[limber lion]

Yep, they're not great.

There's some good ones, but most of them are trash

[alpine latch]

Sooo scary

[spice spire]

Best head piece is from black temple and it’s just a piece of cloth over the eyes

[limber lion]

Fits a poison theme though, so I guess it's appropriate for a sin rogue :p

[gusty mirage]

Don’t hate on the fallout inspired mog

[thorny pond]

Xperl to tidyplates to elv to kui to plater now

[frigid kestrel]

Why not both?

[alpine latch]

I like the xmog, actually - but for a rogue specific set it looks dumb af

[limber lion]

What do you mean?

I do use Elvui, just not the nameplates. :p

[frigid kestrel]

Ahh

I R Stupid

[gusty mirage]

As bad as the bfa ones?

[limber lion]

Plater just does stuff like pandemic-timers for bleeds/poisons a lot better

[frigid kestrel]

I legit just swapped to plater like 3 weeks ago, i didnt know what i was missing

[gusty mirage]

I’m an alacrityUI simp now thanks to Rae

[limber lion]

Yep, quite a few are.

[frigid kestrel]

I stole Cevs and Oshis profiles and mixed them up into something i was comfortable with

[gusty mirage]

His plater profile + WAs for mob abilities are insanely useful

[limber lion]

But AtrocityUI is a great choice. It's very minimalistic.

[humble ginkgo]

I dont see the point of having pandemic thingy on the plater when you can just have it in ur weak aura but to each their own

[limber lion]

That's perfect

Combining the power of multiple sin rogues.

[gusty mirage]

But the colors for plater threw me off for a bit

[limber lion]

It's really, really necessary in AoE.

[worthy moth]

just got my ksm after creating my rogue assassination 1 month ago, first time creating one, best spec

[limber lion]

You don't track bleeds/poisons in AoE on your weak auras

[limber lion]

Love to hear it, good job mate!

[gusty mirage]

I mean you can, but it’s a mess

[frigid kestrel]

WA cant track the Pademic's of adds that your not focusing

[limber lion]

Yeah, highly recommend against it.

[frigid kestrel]

Thats where Platers come in handy

[gusty mirage]

Sit there tab targeting trying to find the one mob with 8s left on rupture

[frigid kestrel]

I never want to go back to that ever again

[limber lion]

Pandemic timers are the main reason I swapped to Plater.

[humble ginkgo]

oh yea I dont play aoe on it

[limber lion]

But yeah, nameplates are a necessity for Sin.

[humble ginkgo]

I legit bought atrocity ui just for sin LOL

i play with fragnance ui

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's fine.

[alpine latch]

You have to pay for atrocity ui?

That's against the EULA

[limber lion]

Yes, you have to sub to his Twitch afaik

[gusty mirage]

It definitely sucked ass prior to my discovery of plater

[limber lion]

You're not paying for the addon

[alpine latch]

Ah, so he should be banned. Cool

[limber lion]

You're paying for the profile.

It's not against the eula

or tos.

[gusty mirage]

You can twitch prime access if you have prime

[limber lion]

It's a clever way to dodge it.

[humble ginkgo]

bc fragnance doesnt have assassination 1080p ui

so I had to cough up money for a sub

[alpine latch]

Oh so it's not it's own UI addon?

[limber lion]

It's like NNogg initially wanting to put MDT behind a sub wall.

[limber lion]

No, it uses Elvui/Plater/Weakauras

afaik

[frigid kestrel]

Never forget when Nnoggie lost it and made it so people had to pay for MDT

[alpine latch]

Gotcha - that makes sense

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s mostly those, also throws in some other addons

But his WAs alone make it worth it

[limber lion]

Yep

It's a great alternative for assassination rogues

And well, other classes/specs as well.

It's a good all-around package.

[gusty mirage]

I went from a huge ass “dungeon abilities” WA to neatly organized ones for each dungeon and for the abilities that actually matter lol

[limber lion]

I'm just trying to slightly move the discussion more towards sin rogues, before it gets too out of topic :p

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure. Having too much stuff on your screen will just make you miss the important stuff.

[topaz echo]

Hey there! I am currently progging sire and was wondering what legendary will yield the most p3 damage - doomblade or zold? I can figure it out myself since warcraftlogs only show the overall damage to boss in rankings. Would appreciate any inputs.

[limber lion]

Zold is generally more damage in P3.

A lot of people default to Doomblade, because it's more damage in P1 and P2, and honestly very similar to P3 as well

But Zoldyck is the better choice if you're still progressing the boss.

The damage check is a lot more forgiving nowadays after the nerfs, but you can't really control your team's actions

[topaz echo]

Great, thank you very much!

[limber lion]

If you have your players die, then you'll need to be pumping as much damage as you can

But yeah, highly recommend BS/DS with Zoldyck!

EP/Vig/CT is also fine, it's slightly less damage in P3, but so much more in P2 and P1.

Necrolord is also the best covenant for Sire, if that's something you've been wondering about as well.

[topaz echo]

Not really interested in parsing, just want to get CE honestly. P3 will be the struggle since our best performers are 2 havocs and 2 frost mages. Warlocks/Spriests are grey boys.

[limber lion]

Yeah, then I'd just recommend sticking to BS/DS/PB with Zoldyck.

[humble ginkgo]

they arent best performers

[limber lion]

CT is also a good option, because it's a lot more damage in P1 and P2, and doesn't suffer from movement in P3.

[humble ginkgo]

they are padders lol

[limber lion]

BS/DS/CT is just really slow gameplay and it's not the most exciting thing.

[topaz echo]

Yeah, I am running necro myself. Way more fun than vent as well.

[limber lion]

Definitely! Necro is the best.

[spice spire]

Farming messages again I see

[limber lion]

Helping people = farming messages.

Okay, I'll stop.

Bye.

[spice spire]

LMFAO

[stark heart]

It is, look at Whispyr)

[sonic schooner]

[limber lion]

Farming messages wouldn't be typing 20 word sentences in one line

[spice spire]

Being the friendliest rogue is just farming

[limber lion]

Farming messages

would be

typing

like guy

[sonic schooner]

ok ceve

[gusty mirage]

Farming messages requires Cev to employ the Guy method of responding

[sonic schooner]

dont

do

it

pls

[gusty mirage]

Lmfao

[plain thistle]

anyone knows the spell ID for SBS dot?

[limber lion]

Yeh, we're ethical gamers here.

[stark heart]

Like should've been its own line

[limber lion]

Yeah, I'm not at Guy's level yet, still need some practice

[spice spire]

Soon Cev will be the foreverguy of assassination

[stark heart]

Gotta work on your chatting skills for sure, maybe consult with #outlaw for guidance

[gusty mirage]

With the amount of stupid questions that will be coming in 9.1, he has a chance

[limber lion]

I'm scared of that place, that's why it's on perma-mute.

[gusty mirage]

But then you miss hot takes such as “blood elf is sexy”

[stark heart]

Scared why? They can't bite

[gusty mirage]

Dip your toe in and get acquainted

[limber lion]

324073

[spice spire]

“I don’t think I can do better”
“Lol”
“You can”
“100%”

Huge outlaw meme

[topaz echo]

Yeah I know about DH being the pad monsters on p1 etc, I was referring to general player skill (all of them have median 80+).

[gusty mirage]

If your locks and spriests are grey parsers that’s definitely a monkaS

[limber lion]

Outlaw is full of intimidating individuals.

I'll stay here, in my cozy, warm home.

[gusty mirage]

Zoomers gonna zoom

Don’t worry, assa will have it’s moment. It happens every expac

[limber lion]

Just make yourself goals whenever you're raiding, that keeps me motivated to do better every pull.

Small stuff like "I'm gonna do more damage than this DH in P2" or "I'll do most boss damage in P1"

[gusty mirage]

“Why is X rogue in China using tiny toxic blade? Is it underperforming in the sims????”

[spice spire]

You’re that intimidating individual papi

[limber lion]

time to dip

[warped moon]

9.1 raid looking like a good assassination time

[humble ginkgo]

no one in outlaw is intimidating

[humble ginkgo]

[limber lion]

not sure if I should say thank you or fuck you.

[spice spire]

Yes

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

Give it a few hours someone should ask about deathly shadows on top of that

[spice spire]

You’re senpai of assassination

[spice spire]

I got a copy pasta for that

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

Cev is BiS

[spice spire]

LMFAO

[limber lion]

no u

[gusty mirage]

Our boy’s a true gamer, the parser of 100s, the biggest brain this side of the milky way galaxy, and a humble kind ethical gamer

[hollow escarp]

no more cev logs next tier

[spice spire]

Everyone else has a chance

[gusty mirage]

Oh they’ll be there, just hidden, taunting you from the shadows

[limber lion]

I bought it all, until you said "ethical". Must be a different person then.

[quasi raven]

is this pinned covenant info is still relevant?

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

Well, not exactly.

[quasi raven]

Covenants:
Venthyr > Necrolord >= Night Fae > Kyrian

[limber lion]

Some of the sims are a bit outdated since we've done some TC works.

Necrolord is generally considered the best covenant for most things.

[gusty mirage]

Necro is much closer now right?

[limber lion]

Venthyr only wins in ST.

[gusty mirage]

For ST

[humble ginkgo]

Holy shit ceverion is actually bis

[limber lion]

Yes, even more in 9.1

[indigo mulch]

Id say overall necro is better.

[hollow escarp]

oxi echoing ceve

[limber lion]

I would say so too.

[spice spire]

I’m going to need you to speak into the mic.
Do you mutilate the bears?

[humble ginkgo]

dude is getting 100 parses currently

[limber lion]

Yes.

[humble ginkgo]

most 100 parses were when 9.0.5 dropped when they reset

but damn bro

[gusty mirage]

I’m a Cev simp

[quasi raven]

but I really like venthyr :(

[spice spire]

Unethical

[humble ginkgo]

ur nutty

[sonic schooner]

as an outlaw player for m+ i kinda understand them

they change leggo every 2 weeks

[hollow escarp]

you can still be venthyr

[sonic schooner]

for no reason besides "this is just better actually"

[humble ginkgo]

@limber lion is the sire parse ur first kill?

[limber lion]

You can honestly play any covenant and do well.

[sonic schooner]

we got all the legendaries

[humble ginkgo]

nvm

LOL

I just checked ur guild

[limber lion]

Yes, it was r1 when I got it.

[humble ginkgo]

wait what

it is??

[limber lion]

Yes.

[humble ginkgo]

jesus christ

[limber lion]

I changed guilds a month ago.

[humble ginkgo]

99 first kill

[limber lion]

It was 100

[gusty mirage]

Man’s a gamer, I weren’t lying

[limber lion]

But someone in NA got a higher log with 7 more dps with PI after 20 hours

[quasi raven]

okay last noob question which one do you guys recommend for new rogue and assa player?

[humble ginkgo]

did you really go from a world 700 guild to a world 33 guild

?

[quasi raven]

easy to play around etc

[limber lion]

Which covenant?

Necrolord honestly.

[quasi raven]

yes

[limber lion]

Necrolord is just too good for most things

[gusty mirage]

Covenant? Whichever as long as it’s not kyrian

[spice spire]

Necrolord is pretty easy to play around, think it’s worth tbh

[limber lion]

Honestly, I would probably start off with Night Fae

Just to get the feel for the entire system

[gusty mirage]

But if you like venthyr (and I don’t blame you that mog is fantastic), stick venthyr

[limber lion]

And then switch to Necrolord after

Once you've got the assassination rotation and essentials down

Then you can swap to Necrolord

Necro can be a bit overwhelming at first if it's a new spec/class.

[limber lion]

Yes.

[quasi raven]

yes that mog is awesome

and i just stop playing my necro shaman

[limber lion]

We private log our kills with my new guild, so that's why my public parses are a bit meh.

[limber lion]

Yeh, just play what you want and get a feel for it!

[real solar]

It’s okay; we know you’re #1 in our hearts Cev

[limber lion]

It's not super important which you play honestly. :p

[quasi raven]

ty for the helps have a nice one

[limber lion]

You too mate!

[spice spire]

Top 30 is a bit meh

[limber lion]

That's a lot coming from a giga blaster like Ivanrah

[real solar]

Im a venthyr gamer

:;

😦

[limber lion]

I was too

Once

Twice*

[indigo mulch]

Actuallu venthyr is bis for xmog =c

[limber lion]

Yeah, I actually made a Venthyr mog for myself the first week of Shadowlands in case we ever swapped to Venthyr

[gusty mirage]

You don’t like a third arm from your shoulder?

[limber lion]

But I never got it done because the floating sword back piece required like 35+ grateful offerings

and eh, I'm not about that life.

[indigo mulch]

I mean tend to have my third arm somewhere else 😫

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

do the House of Constructs daily, you can also get a mount from that guy

or thing rather

[limber lion]

I don't honestly do any of the covenant sanctum things anymore.

[gusty mirage]

Wait you actually do the abomination factory?

[hollow escarp]

not that, talking about the anima infuser thing

[gusty mirage]

Oooh

Yeah yeah

[hollow escarp]

the top left location

[gusty mirage]

I know what you’re talking about

[real solar]

I’m only still venthyr because of pvp boosts

Otherwise

[limber lion]

Fair enough, man's gotta make bank.

[real solar]

so I can pump like papa Cev

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

Do you actually have to go to the area and do stuff after you send anima to it?

[hollow escarp]

you don't have to

but if you funnel anima you unlock that daily activity

[hollow river]

So just send anima to it daily

[hollow escarp]

yes

I've probably channeled it to full

and only did it twice

[hollow river]

I haven’t done enough cov stuff with any of the covenants yet

[limber lion]

Yeah me neither, don't really see much point.

[hollow escarp]

there are some hidden gems

[limber lion]

But some people value tmogs/mounts and whatnot

[hollow river]

Well I want the rewards tbh

[hollow escarp]

venthyr rank 3 transport network can give you a 100k gold pet 🙂

[hollow river]

Really wanted the silver/grey Venthyr mog

[limber lion]

I only do stuff that will put me higher on the dps meter. :p

[limber lion]

Ooh that's pretty cool

[hollow river]

And all the dagger cloaks

If you unlock venthyr or necro travel networks do the travel points show up on your map?

[limber lion]

Yes they do.

[hollow escarp]

atm I'm just hoarding on all my chars and check whenever I have enough anima to buy everything

[hollow river]

Because when I was kyrian I could see every teleport pad

[limber lion]

Yes, you do that on other covenants as well.

[hollow river]

Jesus

[limber lion]

See the portals on Mald, doors on Venth and mushrooms on NF

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

Man's been grinding.

[hollow river]

Kk cuz I did the first unlock for venthyr and didn’t see anything on map back when I was Venthyr

[limber lion]

Two character's are enough for me and if I had the choice, I would only play one character.

:p

[spice spire]

I’m very concerned

[limber lion]

Well you still need to do the quests before you actually unlock them

[hollow escarp]

the perfect balance is one for every armor type

[hollow river]

I haven’t been playing enough lately to have 2 characters my rogue is still 215

[limber lion]

You get the quest from the sanctum, then you have to run to the teleporter

[hollow escarp]

I have 16 max level and only one is above 220

[hollow river]

Ahh

[limber lion]

Gamer.

[hollow river]

That may be why

[spice spire]

Gaming

I have a 224 and a 215 tank alt. That’s it

[hollow river]

My rogue is 215 but 220 with all the gear in my bags

[hollow escarp]

please tell me they are rings and necks

[hollow river]

Nope

Some are

[limber lion]

I was 203 ilvl on my mage 2 days ago

I'm 219 now

[hollow river]

I have 2 226 gloves but doomblade on gloves

[hollow escarp]

ooh

[hollow river]

I have like 3 226 legs but zoldycks on legs so I only get to use gloves/legs when I have one or the other leggos on

I have like 2 226 rings and 2 necks and stats are trash

I just use what the sims say to use ._.

[limber lion]

Yeah, as you should. :p

[hollow river]

And don’t have KSM so no free 220s from my m+ gear

[limber lion]

I've gotten my fair share of unlucky gear rng as well

[hollow river]

I have like 4 daggers from m+

[hollow escarp]

my lowest item is still 220 shoulders 😦

everything else is 226

[hollow river]

Mine is 207 dagger

[limber lion]

I had a 220 off-hand still 3 weeks ago

[hollow escarp]

it's gonna change tomorrow, gonna get 233 dagger

[limber lion]

Sire dying tomorrow? :p

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

I need to get into a gooder guild

Want to have mythic on farm and be a coolboi

[limber lion]

Just get your logs up in your current guild and then apply to 50 guilds and you can surely find one

[hollow river]

My logs mechanic and rotation wise should be fire 4/10

But my parses aren’t great because I’m 215

[limber lion]

Yeah, well

[hollow river]

But I parse 100 ilvl parses

[limber lion]

There's a lot of things here

[hollow escarp]

also make sure your first kill logs are decent, and not just padding 🙂

some good recruiters look at that

[limber lion]

If you want to get to better guilds

You need better logs

To get better logs, you need to get your ilvl up

One step at a time, brother.

Just get KSM and get your ilvl to 225+

[hollow river]

Going to start grinding again this week and next

[limber lion]

Good.

[hollow river]

A couple folks from the guild said they’d run some with me. We’ll see.

[limber lion]

Just don't make the mistake of aiming too high and then be disappointed when you get turned down

Just be patient.

[hollow river]

I’m over 1k io and get declined for 10s lol

[harsh anchor]

Rogues aren’t very popular.

[limber lion]

But that's the same for everyone else.

It's not just you.

[hollow river]

Yeah well I don’t like sitting on a game for over an hour getting declined to everything rofl

Waste of time

[silent tinsel]

Make bs and intellect group restricted,

[limber lion]

That's the thing, it's the same for everyone else

And the people who get far in this game and get to raid at a high level, are people who are willing to put in stupid amount of hours

No one enjoys sitting in LFG looking for a group

If you're not willing to put in the hours and the effort, it's not realistic to aim for a CE guild either honestly.

[dry void]

it would be nice if we could list ourselves as LFG rather than spam joining 5 grps each minute

[limber lion]

Yeah, maybe.

[hollow river]

I feel like a lot of CE guilds run stuff with guildies and I’m sure when patch hits they will push KSM in two weeks.

[limber lion]

Not necessarily

There's a lot of really casual CE guilds.

[small island]

should i craft haste crit on zoldryck?

[limber lion]

Yes.

I'm the highest r.io in my guild, and we're HOF

[cobalt pelican]

wouldn't really work, the amount of people looking for groups far outweighs the people making groups

[thorny pond]

Lots of CEs too with patch length

[limber lion]

Being in a high tier cutting edge guild will not mean that everyone's a m+ blaster.

[cobalt pelican]

the solution is just to do your own keys, usually

[limber lion]

Yeah.

If you're looking to push score and get gear from m+, just do your own key.

Put in the time.

[cyan kite]

What are the conditions under which you'd expect ES/Vig to start simming higher? They consistently sim lower (patchwerk) for me than BS/DS, sometimes significantly, but clearly ES/Vig is preferred by the top performers so I'm curious

[limber lion]

Which covenant are you?

[cyan kite]

Necro

[thorny pond]

We just hate blindside

[limber lion]

EP/Vig is generally used in any fights with multiple targets.

[limber lion]

No we don't.

We dislike Deeper Stratagem.

[limber lion]

EP/Vig and BS/DS should honestly sim pretty similarly for Necrolords. Not sure what significant means for you.

But yeah, EP/Vig wins in multiple target encounters and encounters where you need burst.

[strange python]

guys why necrolord have dot damage ?

[limber lion]

EP/Vig is used for Sludge pillars because it's more burst during the 12s pillar windows and the Blindside is very inconsistent there.

[limber lion]

Not sure what you're asking, sorry.

[scenic root]

EP/vig only sims 30 dps less for me than BS/DS. I just like the faster play style, and helps maintain bleeds on multiple targets

[cyan kite]

DS used to be the bomb with more finisher damage % when you'd drop a fatty MA'd 6CP DfA on a big group of adds in legion 😛

[limber lion]

A lot of people just prefer playing EP/Vig because it's more comfortable for them.

[strange python]

they telling necrolord for high dot damage like feral for dot damage

is it passive of necrolords ?

[limber lion]

The 20-30 dps difference is small enough to play whichever you want.

[limber lion]

Again, not exactly sure what you mean.

But our covenant ability

Serrated Bone Spike

Is a dot.

It's a bleed

[strange python]

yea is garrote deal more damage if you are a necro

or rupture

[limber lion]

It doesn't necessarily buff our bleed damage in any significant way

No

No they do not.

[cyan kite]

30-50 DPS in 5/6 minute patchwerk, just for reference

[strange python]

so what i pick venthyr or necro for pvp @limber lion

[limber lion]

Try simming 2T.

[drowsy parcel]

EP/DS gang

[limber lion]

Probably Venthyr for pvp, but you should ask in #pvp

[cyan kite]

it's about 100 dps better in 2T

[limber lion]

BS/DS ?

[cyan kite]

EP/Vig

[limber lion]

Yeh

[cyan kite]

as expected

[limber lion]

The difference in pure single target is just so small that it's kinda whatever

There's not many pure st fights in CN

Shriekwing, Hungering Destroyer and Artificer.

Everything else has some sort of adds, or is Sludgefist.

[scenic root]

I'll fall asleep playing BS/DS. 2 years until next envenom

[harsh anchor]

BS/DS makes me feel powerful.

[limber lion]

Yeah, a lot of people just default to EP/Vig because it feels better. Loads also report playing better with EP/Vig even though in theory they should be getting worse results.

Placebo goes a long way.

[amber mountain]

I switch to BS/DS for single target bosses, but spend pretty much all my time everywhere else (M+, BG, out in the world, Torghast, etc) in EP/Vig

[cyan kite]

I'm always interested in builds that might minimize the difference between "perfect play" and human error

[amber mountain]

Why can't you play like a simulation Wirewolf?!?!

[cyan kite]

🤖

[whole bluff]

less buttons to press = less human error

[amber mountain]

Nah

DH's have less buttons to press, and anyone who plays them is clearly in error

[limber lion]

I just use EP/Vig everywhere.

[whole bluff]

xd

[cyan kite]

play havoc, manually multibox 3-4 chars in raid

[amber mountain]

I do when I forget 🙂

[limber lion]

That's a bit tough, because nothing in the game is really similar to the sims

[amber mountain]

And yeah, it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference as far as i can tell

[limber lion]

Like Shriek/HD are not 5min patchwork fights

They're close

But not really

So it kind of ruins the premise by default

[amber mountain]

Patchwork doesn't send you to the wall 😦 or to hide behind a pillar

[whole bluff]

Just don't do it 🙂 more parses for you and healers

[drowsy coral]

When people say that sub might be on-par with sin in 9.1 (in ST), are we considering the execute factor of sin to make that deduction ?

[amber mountain]

Or chain you to your friends, who you "accidentally kill" by using shadowstep instead of walking around a puddle on the floor

[drowsy parcel]

a good example and discussion about that would be well placed steel vs sudden fractures

WPS expects perfect shiv windows

[limber lion]

No, because we don't have the numbers for those yet.

[drowsy parcel]

sudden fractures is just passive

[limber lion]

Sylvanas dagger is still being tuned, the Heirmir execute is not implemented etc.

[cyan kite]

I've found a big weapon upgrade (say, 210 -> 226 ilvl) is a nice upgrade in sims (say, 90 dps) but huuge boost in my actual performance

[drowsy coral]

Thank you !

[limber lion]

No worries :)

[limber lion]

Not really.

Using WPS doesn't change the way the sim plays whatsoever

[amber mountain]

Good transmog can help your DPS too!

[limber lion]

The sim still uses Rupture during Shiv windows if it has to.

Nothing changes.

[drowsy parcel]

well sure but it at least expects 100% uptime during shiv windows

mechanics happen

[limber lion]

Yeah

[drowsy parcel]

while sudden fractures is just auto

[limber lion]

but that's a lousy excuse

Because sims are not reality.

You always have to keep that in mind.

[drowsy parcel]

i was just talking about the difference between perfect play and human error

[limber lion]

Yeh

[drowsy parcel]

what i mean is sudden fractures is even better than sims say it is

[limber lion]

Yep, you always have to consider how much value you can actually get out of talent/legendary/gear choices when simming for encounters.

[desert rain]

How close are venth and Necro on ST atm for you guys?

[limber lion]

Venth ahead by 90dps.

Necro ahead by 250dps in 2T.

[desert rain]

Oh that's pretty damn close, thanks

[limber lion]

Yeah, even closer in 9.1 when SBS benefits from crit.

Pleasure.

[sonic schooner]

90dps sim using 100% crit flag

[cobalt pelican]

necro has fleshcraft, and not being a stupid vampire

[limber lion]

I honestly never even use Fleshcraft