I came in asking about Sludge
#assassination
wispy marsh
limber lion
Then the answer would be "DFV and Memory"
wispy marsh
I apologize if it wasn't clear
limber lion
Don't worry, there's just a lot of traffic so it gets lost.
But yeah, generally on-demand damage trinkets are good for Sludge.
gloomy fern
yes yes, iqd and dfv the bestest
cerulean geyser
kinda new to assa rogue but is venthyr still good or should I stay necro?
wispy marsh
Does a 220 DFV do better than a 226 Skulkers? Simmed it but the 226 comes out ahead. For Sludge***
limber lion
Does a 220 DFV do better than a 226 Skulkers? Simmed it but the 226 comes out ah...
Then the 226 is probably better.
stoic needle
If we ever do a re clear I want to try bell on sludge to see how big of an envenom I can get
vital tapir
Does a 220 DFV do better than a 226 Skulkers? Simmed it but the 226 comes out ah...
If the SIM says so then it's so
No Point overthinking it
limber lion
kinda new to assa rogue but is venthyr still good or should I stay necro?
Venthyr is perfectly fine, Necrolord is more versatile and pulls ahead in AoE.
Necrolord is generally the recommended choice among us gamers
wispy marsh
No Point overthinking it
I have half a guild and I'm pugging 10 other members every week. Trying to get my first CE. I overthink everything 😦
limber lion
But both are great.
cerulean geyser
aa ok thatnks 🙂
limber lion
If we ever do a re clear I want to try bell on sludge to see how big of an enven...
Make sure to take Nightstalker as well.
stoic needle
I have half a guild and I'm pugging 10 other members every week. Trying to get m...
To be completely honest if you want to get ce you should just find a new guild
vital tapir
I have half a guild and I'm pugging 10 other members every week. Trying to get m...
Yeah, I get that
But my honest advice is to just trust the Sims ^^
stoic needle
You won't kill sire pugging
limber lion
I have half a guild and I'm pugging 10 other members every week. Trying to get m...
Missing 10 players is pretty rough my guy.
fleet whale
sadly that's Shadowlands in a nutshell lol
so many guilds having players just dissappear
wispy marsh
Missing 10 players is pretty rough my guy.
We downed Council last night. Started the guild at the beginning of the tier after I got first week aotc in a pug. So killing Sire with fills feels doable honestly.
vital tapir
You won't kill sire pugging
False
I've killed It multiple Times with pugs
stoic needle
Heroic sire maybe 
wispy marsh
@limber lion not all of that message was meant for you, was meant for other guy too xD
limber lion
We downed Council last night. Started the guild at the beginning of the tier aft...
You will not kill Sire by pugging it.
You've been killing the easy bosses thus far
wispy marsh
If I get it I'll come back and let y'all know. But we're at Sludge and we've been raiding only for a couple months. If you get SLG Sire is free from what all of my buddies have told me.
limber lion
SLG/Sire are completely different beasts.
visual prairie
we don't want to deal with pugs, so we just 14 man mythic sire
dull cloak
SLG mythic pug yikes
vital tapir
Oh W8, mythic
Slim chances in this case
limber lion
Sire is a really coordinated fight
visual prairie
so far we've gotten him to 98%
limber lion
You will not be able to complete it with random pugs.
stoic needle
If I get it I'll come back and let y'all know. But we're at Sludge and we've bee...
Well, it's not free, even with a consistent 20 player roster
limber lion
There's some guilds who can't do P1 after 500 pulls on it
cough Shien
It might sound rough, but you will not pug Sire.
stoic needle
Your buddies don't really know what they're talking about
wispy marsh
One of them is in a top 20 us guild now ;c
vital tapir
Sire's easier than prenerf slg, sure
vital tapir
Not so sure about it now
wispy marsh
But SLG was harder
vital tapir
Only prenerf
stoic needle
You can be a good player and still be misinformed
wispy marsh
They put 150 pulls into SLG and killed sire within 20 pulls lol
fleet whale
even if SLG was a little harder, it's not like sire is a free kill
stoic needle
Killed sire in 20 pulls? 
wispy marsh
Sec, let me find his logs, he just transferred because he got picked up by Melee Mechanics
So his character is weird rn
vital tapir
^
fleet whale
maybe it was an all star guild
hazy ruin
built different
fleet whale
of alts of very high end raiders lol
balmy condor
it was heroic for sure
hazy ruin
lmao
vital tapir
My guild's 50 wipes on And we're just getting the Basics for P1 down
vital tapir
In *
limber lion
NO ONE has killed Sire in 20 pulls
fleet whale
i'm just messing around lol
i highly doubt anyone could kill sire in 20 pulls, maybe get past phase 1 in 20
limber lion
Shien's guild has been progging Sire for 600 pulls and they still don't have P1 consistent
ionic kelp
you can get past phase 1 in 10 pulls
with half ur raid dead
cause soaks are so fucked
xd
vital tapir
Don't do him Like that ceve 
fleet whale
are there any vids of people posting early fight previews/guides of the new raid?
fatboss is dead
hollow river
No guides yet just like overviews on YouTube
wispy marsh
Sorry, I got memed, you know when people say like 2 seconds but they mean 2 minutes. That's what he did to my gullible ass, lol. They were world 350th, killed Sire back in February, the reason I thought that was a legit statement is because another pally on my FL, who's guild was world 107,said the same shit, SLG hard, Sire very easy.
vital tapir
Yeah, before the nerfs slg was harder for sure
limber lion
It depends on the guild
vital tapir
Now? Doubt it
limber lion
Some people dumpster SLG and struggle on Sire
vital tapir
Also what ceve said
frail fossil
the lowest sire pull count i've seen is 58 by arctic avengers
which is simply an insane perf for how early they killed it
strange python
Do we ever use our ranged poison application ability?
limber lion
Arctic Avengers are massive gamers.
limber lion
Do we ever use our ranged poison application ability?
Very, very rarely.
It's a fine ability to use if you cannot shadowstep and you're capped in energy
frail fossil
Do we ever use our ranged poison application ability?
if u are out of range of the boss and will cap energy
limber lion
But that's a very rare situation and you shouldn't get to that point ever.
Sire is the only boss where you're required to use PK or FoK during the intermission
frail fossil
Arctic Avengers are massive gamers.
oh wait it's 58 pulls actually
i dont fathom how u do that like wtf 
strange python
Thanks!
limber lion
hazy ruin
do we have a list of anima powers for the new affix out anywhere?
limber lion
do we have a list of anima powers for the new affix out anywhere?
#wowheadnews has one.
hazy ruin
<#319990965337063425> has one.
potent rune
Just got home, is wow down?
hazy ruin
yea they said we have to play tbc or else
limber lion
It is for some.
potent rune
i can log onto my server but all my toons are gone
potent rune
but i have exodia
limber lion
velvet escarp
can someone explain why is it that the sim doesn't apply Rupture on Target 2 during the shiv window in the opener, but yet refreshes Rupture on Target 2 in the shiv window after that? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uaez1xwYtmeZE6Mixqz5nh
is it because that window is empowered by Vendetta, and hence envenoms and mutilates for that shiv window are more important?
limber lion
is it because that window is empowered by Vendetta, and hence envenoms and mutil...
It's probably because with Vendetta and lust you have a lot of energy and you're at a point of energy saturation, so you don't really need the extra rupture.
limber lion
is it because that window is empowered by Vendetta, and hence envenoms and mutil...
But yeah, this also probably plays a part in it.
Much more valuable to get value out of the gemstone window with SBS and slam Envenoms instead of applying extra ruptures.
bleak sky
so beginning denny prog today, let me just refresh some stuff
DS + Blindside + CT
Zoldycks
right?
balmy condor
yeh
bleak sky
ty whispyr
ionic kelp
i would say doomblade instead of zoldycks in beginning of prog
that way you can help your guild get the initial p1/p2 push humps
then when the rest of your guild is more comfortable, and constantly hit p3 you can switch to zoldys if u need the dmg there
bleak sky
Yeah I don't like the idea of swapping leggos
balmy condor
not this convo again
limber lion
It'll mess up with the push timers and damage checks.
balmy condor
bleak sky
Same thing with idk lusting just to push the boss and see what happens
balmy condor
bleak sky
anyway, thanks everyone ❤️
limber lion
balmy condor
faint harness
oh wait it's 58 pulls actually
we had 70 something, 58 sounds doable if you have better comp
frail fossil
we had 70 something, 58 sounds doable if you have better comp
70 is really impressive
faint harness
carried by milespriest 
frail fossil
carried by milespriest <:Kappa:675691839881216001>
Spriest Godx
frail fossil
for real tho, 57 pulls is just 91%
better than 91% of the guilds ?
faint harness
ye
meaning 9% did it in less than 57 pulls
honestly never encountered a boss which has such a large discrepancy between guilds
frail fossil
meaning 9% did it in less than 57 pulls
yeah but i'm guessing some of the guilds with less pulls are also guild made of CE people that formed and cleared the raid in few pulls
frail fossil
honestly never encountered a boss which has such a large discrepancy between gui...
just comes down of if people understand p1 or not cuz those wipe go so fast
faint harness
i mean its not gonna be the diff between 50 and 500 pulls
tacit wedge
how many of you actually use numbing poison?
limber lion
Why would you not use it?
faint harness
in raid i hope everyone does
tacit wedge
just learned how busted it is
faint harness
"busted" prob not the right word for it
silent tinsel
It costs 1.5 seconds of my life
tacit wedge
friend got mad because i never used shiv to desenrage in a key
"but bro, shiv only slow"
"it's because you use crippling"
silent tinsel
Blame bliz for baking shiv into a dmg cd
tacit wedge
I like your opinion Ulti
silent tinsel
limber lion
Always just blame Blizzard.
balmy condor
also blame your tanks
and your healers
and everyone but yourself
that way you never have to face the fact that you're actually bad
works for me
faint harness
too real
tacit wedge
I'm not bad at cleaving
limber lion
Ignorance is bliss.
tacit wedge
the tank is at fault
limber lion
tacit wedge
he's always moving the mobs away from me
so i cant cleave because they are never in range
tacit wedge
thorny pond
Start carrying. Plenty of time on mobs when there's only 2 dps
hollow river
silent tinsel
Member when poison bomb did real damage and tanks moved the pack away everytime?
thorny pond
Yea ToS lol
limber lion
Antorus*
thorny pond
There's a twitch clip of me losing my shit because an alt rogue in raid had PB damage as his #2 ability and mine did .5%
limber lion
Antorus was the fucking worst.
balmy condor
There's a twitch clip of me losing my shit because an alt rogue in raid had PB d...
ah yes, the outlaw rogue phenomenon
silent tinsel
I miss space ebola man on the trash to aggramar
tacit wedge
I miss space ebola man on the trash to aggramar
same
friendships got broken over this trash mob
limber lion
thorny pond
Yep
limber lion
Good ol' Eonar
thorny pond
I had top Gul Dan log for a bit because PB luck. I was not that good
silent tinsel
Legion outlaw was fun when slice and dice became the bis talent
limber lion
Hmm
odd hazel
im just always curious what combat would be like if we still had it today
hazy beacon
what I meant is the broken chance of PB to appear once a minute or 3 out of 5 envenoms was as random as getting many bis bones
limber lion
But the damage difference between the two was giga
PB was massive damage
Getting bis rolls was not as much
odd hazel
honestly
hazy beacon
yeah, but does it feel right, to gamble in assa when you have a gambler outlaw
odd hazel
BiS bones isnt breaking or making outlaw
silent tinsel
They tried so hard to sell that pirate motif
odd hazel
i mean, i like the pistols/etc
silent tinsel
Saber slash, run through, parley, cannonball barrage 
tacit wedge
at least it gave it a strong personality
silent tinsel
I like barrage atleast, a shame it got nerfed from beta
alpine latch
Outlaw is combat with 2 new abilities, though
hazy beacon
actually four?
alpine latch
Neither of which fit the rest of the non-existent theme
odd hazel
yes but it has a theme now
silent tinsel
Bte is just expose armor cmv
alpine latch
And?
alpine latch
That's not a theme, lol
odd hazel
What is it then?
alpine latch
It's Outlaw, with 2 new abilities
hazy beacon
it misses a bottle of rum that either buffs your energy generation or makes you run backwards
new meta
alpine latch
There's no "theme" to Outlaw or Sub, honestly.
odd hazel
to each their own.
alpine latch
Sub is just "lol shadow ninjas stabby stab"
odd hazel
Thats a theme
tacit wedge
Sub is the assassin using magic to empower their skills
limber lion
Sub is just "lol shadow ninjas stabby stab"
That's a theme
tacit wedge
Sin rogue use poison instead
silent tinsel
Subs should honestly just go hard into the ninja theme
odd hazel
like
limber lion
Outlaw's theme is pirate
odd hazel
im not sure we have the same definition of theme
hazy beacon
yeah but that ninja style is huge diff to assa or pirate
sin rogue tbh is petless unholy dk
odd hazel
honestly
limber lion
Subtlety's theme is shadows
limber lion
No it's not.
alpine latch
But, it is.
silent tinsel
Subs theme is tailoring your cd management to every encounter
limber lion
Maybe we don't share the same idea of what shadows entails
alpine latch
That's literally a characteristic of all rogues. Sub leans into it more by being able to use "stealth only things when not stealthed"
limber lion
Maybe hiding in the shadows is a different thing
alpine latch
We go stealth/vanish by using shadow magic
odd hazel
sub focuses around it though
outlaw has sounds and moves that portray a pirate, sin is all about poison damage, and sub is stealthy.
alpine latch
It's not shadow magic
How do you think rogues became completely invisible in broad daylight in the middle of a dirt field?
hazy beacon
vanish powder ofc
silent tinsel
That saurfang cinematic was just the rogue rolling 20 on hide
alpine latch
vanish powder ofc
That's not a thing, that's an in-game mechanic for Classic
tacit wedge
literally does Shadow magic damage
"No, it doesn't use magic"
odd hazel
im just gonna not say anything and just say our definition of theme is different
hazy beacon
shadow magic
meanwhile rambo
smoky beacon
top or not its still a meele spec 🙂
limber lion
Is water wet?
tacit wedge
Pov : you play melee on Retail WoW
smoky beacon
guess so
silent tinsel
The Zul tax 
frigid kestrel
As long as half the players in my raid team play the meta classes slightly above average I will always have a raiding spot as Sin.
hazy beacon
well, weapons arent going by tokens, and someone need dem bloody daggers off the 1st boss and the last...
frail fossil
if u dont want to be benched u simply need to be the best dps in the roster 
tulip nacelle
That's not a thing, that's an in-game mechanic for Classic
how does that make it not a thing
limber lion
if u dont want to be benched u simply need to be the best dps in the roster <:re...
This is a wise man right here.
frigid kestrel
if u dont want to be benched u simply need to be the best dps in the roster <:re...
Or, anything except the worse 
smoky beacon
i mean its not always the dmg right
hazy beacon
if u want to be the best dps in the roster u simply need to throw the mechanics 
frail fossil
yeah it's not just the damage, assa has good dmg and really good survivability
so if u dont die ever
and u pump
limber lion
i mean its not always the dmg right
It's not, but why would you bench someone that out-dps's your entire roster?
frigid kestrel
Best DPS won’t get benched due to needing a utility class in game.
frail fossil
ur fine
tacit wedge
We'll be stuck on them for 9.1
Flashback to NYA with Carapace daggers 
limber lion
Unless you severely need something in the raid
Most of the time you don't really have any severe need for any classes
smoky beacon
@limber lion hmm i need to ask my guildleader why 😄
limber lion
Other than 1 for each of the raid buffs.
frigid kestrel
Anything less then top 5 risk losing a spot to AM..... o wait we good now in 9.1 
frail fossil
<@!165215952479322112> hmm i need to ask my guildleader why 😄
if u outperform ur guild and is benched just
leave
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> hmm i need to ask my guildleader why 😄
I'm performing quite well in my guild, so I'm never benched.
Even as sin
a melee player.
What a travesty.
smoky beacon
well depends on the guild right
frail fossil
I'm performing quite well in my guild, so I'm never benched.
it's also just reclear my dude
limber lion
<a:feelskek:585736273415897098> it's also just reclear my dude
I'm talking about prog as well
smoky beacon
like world 200+ doesnt mattter i guess whatu play
limber lion
like world 200+ doesnt mattter i guess whatu play
Sure
frail fossil
I'm talking about prog as well
yeah i mean ur previous guild u were literally the best player by a fucking mile
frail fossil
cev stop flexing
warm parcel
wr 27
smoky beacon
then u must be an officer no way u played all 10/10 CN bosses lol
warm parcel
warm parcel
fr tho
warm parcel
yall better make it seem more like assa or whispyrs gonna show you the theme of the channel
warm parcel
And realtalk
smoky beacon
i need a guide to get better then damn
frail fossil
hell bro i played outlaw the griefer spec on all bosses and was never benched
warm parcel
All the melee talk is really doomsayers clickbating youtube
frigid kestrel
yall better make it seem more like assa or whispyrs gonna show you the theme of ...
Been waiting for him to Pop up 😂🤣😂
limber lion
Exactly.
frail fossil
All the melee talk is really doomsayers clickbating youtube
agree
assa players will def have their spots
limber lion
I remember the crowds of people complaining how CN is the worst tier for melee in an eternity
frail fossil
in most guilds
limber lion
And it was not that bad.
tacit wedge
All the melee talk is really doomsayers clickbating youtube
Just shadowstep 
frail fossil
I remember the crowds of people complaining how CN is the worst tier for melee i...
every tier is like that
this raid is sooo anti melee
and then it's fine
limber lion
People just complain about melee, as if we can only have 1-2 melee in raids
Where most guilds still run 6+
smoky beacon
i mean its not antimeele, its just ranges are always better 🙂
odd hazel
@balmy condor
frigid kestrel
Honestly 9.1 raid doesn’t look bad for melee period. I think Sin will absolutely slap in KT fight
limber lion
Not necessarily.
warm parcel
Melee may be fine, its the public perception you gotta fight
limber lion
That's where the dps comes from.
odd hazel
i mean
odd hazel
every raid is gonna have its "bad melee fights"
odd hazel
or range
tacit wedge
Assa have the advantage of downtimes
warm parcel
Not like assa is the surv hunter level of bad either
limber lion
Yeh
tacit wedge
Bleeds and poisons still rolling while you move
frigid kestrel
What fights in CN were considered “anti-melee”?
frail fossil
Not like assa is the surv hunter level of bad either
yeah ur just playing one of the best ST dmg spec in the game
tacit wedge
So it doesn't really care about melee friendliness
limber lion
What fights in CN were considered “anti-melee”?
Before the tier was released? Hungering, Council, Sludge, SLG and Sire
After tier was over? Just Sludge.
frail fossil
yeah i cant find one i was like fuck i'm melee
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682>
what I do
strange python
how far behind is necrolord in full st?
frail fossil
sludges is fine
warm parcel
I didnt feel like warrior sucked for any fight cause it was melee.
It just sucked for other reasons
limber lion
how far behind is necrolord in full st?
Not by much, less than 100dps for most.
tulip nacelle
yall better make it seem more like assa or whispyrs gonna show you the theme of ...
this Whispyr
frail fossil
I didnt feel like warrior sucked for any fight cause it was melee.
It just sucke...
negative damage ?
warm parcel
Thatd be one
strange python
and its far superior in aoe right?
frigid kestrel
After tier was over? Just Sludge.
Sludge confuses me, why would it be anti-melee?
strange python
ok thank you
frail fossil
Sludge confuses me, why would it be anti-melee?
u have to run out every 30sec
balmy condor
this Whispyr
I don't get it
frail fossil
and u have a limited melee spot or the boss fucks everyone over
balmy condor
am I being flamed
tulip nacelle
no
warm parcel
limber lion
NO
tulip nacelle
just a random @ because weak mentioned you idk
balmy condor
oh
warm parcel
I was mainly taking a piss at ot talk in assa
limber lion
Sludge confuses me, why would it be anti-melee?
The spread mechanic forces people to be spread around the room to not cleave everyone as well.
warm parcel
But its 3am so its bound to be ot
balmy condor
he just said u were cute
frigid kestrel
u have to run out every 30sec
Yea that makes sense, but most the damage comes from pillars and range has a lot of movement throughout that fight as well. So I didn’t think it really favored anything tbh.
frail fossil
<:really:847472972343541763>
where is the small really coming from
frail fossil
Yea that makes sense, but most the damage comes from pillars and range has a lot...
i agree
balmy condor
where is the small really coming from
:deeznuts:
frail fossil
i think none of the cn fights are anti melee
what made melee bad is DK existed, and all the other melee specs were kinda bad
limber lion
Sludge definitely was before the nerfs.
frail fossil
so u just played DK lol
it was more of a class balance thing that raid encounter design
in most of CN
cuz ranged were fucking cracked all of them
frigid kestrel
Council, SLG, And Sire I understand tho.
smoky beacon
whats so bad about meeles at slg xD
smoky beacon
lul
frail fossil
people thought hungering was anti melee
limber lion
Similar to how you keep preaching that you can't play melee
frigid kestrel
Ye hungering I can’t even figure out a logical reasoning for
warm parcel
Theres also feeling bad and actually just losing dps bad
limber lion
Just play sin at a top level and you'll be guaranteed a raid spot.
warm parcel
What we talking of here
frigid kestrel
The other ones I can play devils advocate on
frail fossil
Theres also feeling bad and actually just losing dps bad
i personally never felt bad in cn cuz of me being melee
some mechanics were annoying but like not melee specific
limber lion
Trust me Viho, I'm sure everyone knows who you are and we're all jealous of all the PI's you get.
frail fossil
oh that's Vihoo ?
warm parcel
wh
frail fossil
or is there Viho and Vihoo
warm parcel
I had to do it
frail fossil
smoky beacon
yea i get alot of PI damn
limber lion
I'm just tired of the "reee this is a melee class so it's bad"
smoky beacon
hope ill get 5 times more
frail fossil
yea i get alot of PI damn
balmy condor
wh<a:omegalul:585570400952385544>
ViWh
?
warm parcel
Had to take it sorry
frail fossil
delete unethical gamer
balmy condor
pi is giga cringe
warm parcel
Also PI could be removed
frail fossil
external are so cringe
warm parcel
Prolly same person that thought new kyrian lego was good for warrior
frail fossil
externals for dps
balmy condor
devs are lfr warriors confirmed
limber lion
Death to all externals.
silent tinsel
Why
warm parcel
Idno some of the design just makes me question
smoky beacon
@limber lion ive never said meeles are bad its just compared to range spot yea its pretty bad 😄
frail fossil
u dont rly compete with ranged for a spot tho
u mostly compete with the other melee dps
and in most guild, doing very good dmg and not dying is fine to land u a spot on most fight, u dont need to be there in 100% of the prog like that's just an unrealistic expectation
and turns out assa has great survivability and great dmg
so ur fine
balmy condor
and turns out assa has great survivability and great dmg
fire has mediocre mobility as well, so that's a plus
frail fossil
fire has mediocre mobility as well, so that's a plus
warm parcel
frail fossil
bro preheat said so
no way
balmy condor
oh do you not know the meme
frail fossil
bro preheat is smoking some SSS tier crack
balmy condor
there was a wowhead post where the class writers gave thoughts
and preheat deadass was like "yeah these damage nerfs to fire suck, we already have mediocre mobility so idk, I think it'll be okay"
smoky beacon
lets to be honest all guilds copies the setup from limit and echo, and if they only play 4 meeles all guilds gonna play 4 meeles and if theres no rogues then there is no rogues kekw
warm parcel
no
frail fossil
lets to be honest all guilds copies the setup from limit and echo, and if they o...
does it ?
smoky beacon
yep
balmy condor
that's
limber lion
balmy condor
not how that works
limber lion
The man is literally 🧢
frail fossil
that's a nuclear take
warm parcel
A certain "hc casual" group of guilds will
Cause thats what they think will help them
silent tinsel
I heard numbing and curse on sire was game changing, limit still didn't have rogues
frail fossil
a lot of guilds dont even have the luxury to cherry pick their classes lol
limber lion
There's still some people doing 2-1-1 on Sire with 227 equipped ilvl on everyone
because Limit did it
Very efficient
Good tactic
warm parcel
Limit didnt know bout numbing till last week
warm parcel
frail fossil
i mean u can again
limber lion
You're bunching hc andies
warm parcel
Youre generalising a little too much
frail fossil
leave ur guild and fine a better one
frail fossil
if u dont like ur guild management
limber lion
a WR50 guild will probably do things differently to what a WR1298 will
Or I would hope so.
silent tinsel
Should only be one raid difficulty imo
unique sleet
Venth or Necro for 9.1?
balmy condor
necro
silent tinsel
Is there an achievement for cov world tour?
raven gyro
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
carmine dawn
lol if everyone copied limit then no one would be playing rogue
limber lion
Most people are wise enough to not trust balance from 6 months ago
But not wise enough to understand that tactics should also be developed accordingly.
I'm guessing we'll be seeing some Assassination gameplay in WFR.
unique sleet
Why are people swapping to Necro from Venth now though?
limber lion
Why are people swapping to Necro from Venth now though?
That's been going on for months now. But yeah, Necrolord beats Venthyr whenever you add any amount of extra targets to an encounter.
Venthyr only wins in single target, Necrolord wins everything else.
limber lion
Yeh hard agree.
unique sleet
I see. Since Necro is getting another Potency next Patch will it beat out Venth in ST or nah?
balmy condor
everyone is getting another potency
limber lion
Probably not, but who knows.
balmy condor
silent tinsel
I heard sod favors cleave?
fleet whale
also they smell the worst
unique sleet
Haha. I know everyone is but was just curious
limber lion
I heard sod favors cleave?
Quite a few raids do lol.
frosty bridge
Mate Necro gets more execute yoooo
balmy condor
and then not fae/kyrian
carmine dawn
whispyr
thorny pond
Can we build our own potency conduit? I don't like our choices
fleet whale
can't be arsed to grind another 40 renown though
balmy condor
necro/venthyr conduits are pretty good, fae/kyrian are kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel
limber lion
We hate potency conduits.
fleet whale
plus venth mount looks to cool
silent tinsel
It'd actually 80 in 9.1
fleet whale
i mena right now
carmine dawn
im gonna have a steaming pile of log for you to dig your nice perfect hands into later @balmy condor
frosty bridge
Kyrian sin rogue 🤮
limber lion
can't be arsed to grind another 40 renown though
It takes like a few days, it's not too bad lol
You don't even have to grind it honestly
You just play the game
limber lion
And it happens.
fleet whale
yeah, but i like venth more
thorny pond
Then play venth lol
thorny pond
I'm sure there are a half dozen people here still Kyrian
balmy condor
there was one guy that was like
fleet whale
yeah unsubbed accounts
carmine dawn
||im still kyrian LUHMAO||
frail fossil
||im still kyrian LUHMAO||
hanging out with bron
limber lion
Some people are masochists.
frosty bridge
Dude night fae was bae until it wasn’t
limber lion
SBS with Soulshape
thorny pond
Anima charged CT spam ya know
fleet whale
soulbinds are still good
limber lion
plain thistle
Dude night fae was bae until it wasn’t
it wasnt, then it was than it wasnt again
frail fossil
i liked kyrian ngl
plain thistle
frosty bridge
it wasnt, then it was than it wasnt again
This
shy dust
Kyrian was shit
fleet whale
sepsis is a pretty lame ability honestly
shy dust
For every non outlaw spec
frosty bridge
Everyone loved kyrian who did early pvp
fleet whale
arguably the worse rogue covenant ability
frail fossil
Kyrian was shit
was fine for sub
thorny pond
Kyrian was shit
I love the blue nazis wtf man
shy dust
was fine for sub
No it wasn’t
limber lion
Kyrian was shit for all specs.
frosty bridge
Kyrian in PvP with MA and the conduit was something
shy dust
Was shit still
limber lion
Fuck that.
frail fossil
No it wasn’t
it was like within 50 dps or smth at max renown dude
fleet whale
you know what was really shit
balmy condor
people really got on that kyrian train
shy dust
I don’t mean dps shit
fleet whale
pre 9.0.5 venthyr/flag
shy dust
It felt like shit
frail fossil
oh ok fair
balmy condor
because week 3 double potency
and then week 7-8 fae won
and people were surprised
limber lion
Fae day 1
shy dust
Burrs go brrrrrr
fleet whale
cause our potencys are trash
shy dust
Kyrian was absolutely t
frosty bridge
Pelagos giving vers throwbacks
silent tinsel
Please let phial lose to everything next tier
frosty bridge
Everyone having kyrian as bis
tulip nacelle
Imagine ever being fae
balmy condor
I'm interested in how many people went kyrian just because fuu's spreadsheet said so
shy dust
The best for early prog though
limber lion
I'm interested in how many people went kyrian just because fuu's spreadsheet sai...
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
fleet whale
i mean i went venth for like the first 4 days lol
shy dust
Just off the basis of being able to farm people in arena with your brain shut off due to how overtuned it was
thorny pond
I'm interested in how many people went kyrian just because fuu's spreadsheet sai...
Me so my guild wouldn't harass me
frail fossil
I'm interested in how many people went kyrian just because fuu's spreadsheet sai...
went cuz jpc was kyrian
shy dust
Like 90% of 1800+ sub players were Kyrian
balmy condor
that "mythic week one" section
frail fossil
nah jk i just liked the kyrian ability more lol
thorny pond
ER belongs in the ER
fleet whale
I remember dratnos putting sub in S tier a few weeks before Nathria lol
frosty bridge
At least we have the privilege to pick any covenant tbh
frosty bridge
I remember dratnos putting sub in S tier a few weeks before Nathria lol
:(
Sub rogue hype was real
limber lion
fleet whale
it's hype really died in mid beta tbh with all the leggo nerfs
limber lion
frail fossil
sub rogue channel starting from wilding 24/7 to dead after ppl realized sub was not going to be S tier
thorny pond
Sub rogue hit a fever pitch only a few politicians ever have
frosty bridge
God unholy DK is so busted even after the nerfs it got early
frail fossil
frail fossil
God unholy DK is so busted even after the nerfs it got early
the amz buff was so unnecessary i was mad
carmine dawn
Bron is tha homie
limber lion
frail fossil
<:sin:433007826840059916><:Loved:717852773567299645>
<:otl:433007796666236958><...
delete this cev
frosty bridge
😂
shy dust
Unholy plays like shit
carmine dawn
shy dust
Pets do like 80% of your dps
thorny pond
📛
frosty bridge
Agreed, I hate Unholy gameplay but it has a broken toolkit for progress
limber lion
Sin gamers here only.
frail fossil
Unholy plays like shit
unholy is such a boring spec
limber lion
No alts.
frail fossil
like such a bad spec
frosty bridge
ASS ASS I NATION
shy dust
Sub >>>>> assa > bench >>>>> outlaw
frosty bridge
Sub is more fun tho ngl
carmine dawn
wow rae
frail fossil
Sub >>>>> assa > bench >>>>> outlaw
true yeap so true
carmine dawn
how dare u
limber lion
Sub is fun sometimes
frail fossil
rae 📠
shy dust
Ima sub rogue main
limber lion
But not always
Current sub plays pretty ok, but not the best
Better than BFA for sure
shy dust
Shorter dance that did more damage
limber lion
Yeh that's true
fleet whale
i wonder if fire mage will be broken in 9.1
shy dust
And nights vengeance was cool for burst
limber lion
But tbf I didn't play Sub much in bfa, so it's just a distant memory
I only dream of Legion Sub
silent tinsel
I'm not a fan of symbols, shadowblades, 2 dance charges
frail fossil
idk sub is fine i didn't like it at a point but like
it's ok
i think ti'll be more fun with obedience
limber lion
Definitely.
frail fossil
sub baseline is pretty good it just got pretty shit borrowed power
frosty bridge
Sub has too much power in SS imo and too little in finishers
Kinda fee like Evis should hit harder than Envenom but eh
slow marsh
I mean true but envenom has always hit harder since tbc. Nature>physical
stoic needle
with find weakness evis hits harder
it's just split into 2 hits so you don't notice it
hazy beacon
unholy is such a boring spec
and assassination with 3 debuffs is such entertaining spec
frail fossil
and assassination with 3 debuffs is such entertaining spec
where did i say i thought sin wasn't boring
balmy condor
sub with 3 cooldowns is such an entertaining spec too
balmy condor
it's almost like "fun" and "entertaining" are opinions
frail fossil
BFA screens ok
balmy condor
so close to being an opinion
tulip nacelle
there's one from march as well if you want
frail fossil
tulip nacelle
frail fossil
i mean yeah sin feels fine to play it's just memes
tulip nacelle
I'm just whipping up the acstually stuff
frail fossil
faint harness
it's almost like "fun" and "entertaining" are opinions
No these are facts bro
frail fossil
No these are facts bro
faint harness
Cant believe someone made an emote for that
frail fossil
it's a good emote wdym
balmy condor
frigid kestrel
Cant believe someone made an emote for that
Can’t believe that you can’t believe that.
Someone gets knocked out with a twisted Tea and then boom 
made the next day.
faint harness
Should never underestimate the internet
frigid kestrel
Plumage and Axe slap in M+ PTR so far. I just don’t know what else to choose from the other two LT’s. I know there will more then likely be more changes before live hits, but I’m legit confused what to pick in its current state other then those two.
frail fossil
affix seems kinda wanky, but i wont miss pride
frigid kestrel
Ye I’d be legit surprised if it didn’t get nerfed what’s the price
balmy condor
which one are you
carmine dawn
Vo
balmy condor
ok
bleak sky
P1 and P2 denny feelsbadman, nowhere to be seen on charts
balmy condor
I'm at work but I'll take a look when I can
balmy condor
yes pls
frail fossil
P1 and P2 denny feelsbadman, nowhere to be seen on charts
P2 assa is insanely strong
bleak sky
Oh damage is there, but all the padding from p1 just dwarfs me lmao
arctic gate
hey guys, I'm new to assassination, any convenient macro you could share?
balmy condor
not sure what kind of macro you're looking for
most people don't really use anything other than a tricks macro
arctic gate
oh cool that answered it actually, thanks whispyr
balmy condor
np
stoic needle
floral vale
Do we hold cooldowns for sludgefist or send vendetta / vanish right away?
wide bolt
Do we hold cooldowns for sludgefist or send vendetta / vanish right away?
depends on pillar strat if its 4 pillar you send on pull only one shiv between pillars so you have it up for pillar phase
floral vale
by pillar strat you mean when we lust?
balmy condor
by how many pillars you do
if you do 4 pillars, like on mythic, then you're looking at pull/2/4
floral vale
Ah yeah I’m referring to mythic
mint anvil
What happens to dots on remoria on phase 3 transition?
Is it worth double dotting right before transition or just throwing everything on sire
balmy condor
I think she goes immune, or close to it
and then disappears completely
so it's not worth
mint anvil
Aight so just go full on sire then
balmy condor
yeah
mint anvil
tyty
sonic schooner
Could check logs to see what happens really, but I think she just still exist but she s immune like said whisp 
mental trout
so hows assassination looking in 9.1 for M+? Outlaw still beat it by a long shot?
frigid kestrel
Does OL beat it by a long shot currently?
in 9.1 if BF still interacts with the new Lego it actually will beat Sin by a long shot in M+
mental trout
im not sure tbh, i thought it did but i may be wrong. Took a break from playing so i am out of the loop sir
balmy condor
outlaw will get better in 9.1
they're fairly equal atm
but deathspike flurrying makes it pretty strong
we'll have to see how the affix stuff works out
but safe to say outlaw is better
mental trout
right on, thanks for the insight. so pretty safe to mainly focus on assassination/outlaw as my specs if my focus is on pvp/M+?
balmy condor
yeh that's fine
thorny pond
I hope they reign in the deathspike leggo a bit. That's nutty
mental trout
Necrolord Deathspike: Serrated Bone Spike has 2 additional charges and hits 2 additional nearby enemies.
wow that looks sick
thorny pond
It cleave with blade flurry too
mental trout
its so late and i am so tired my brain is mush... how exactly does cleave work with it? didnt it already work? or them 2 additional enemies get hit twice? If there is a pack of 3 mobs, and you bone spike with flurry while wearing the leggo how many spikes go off with one cast?
balmy condor
its so late and i am so tired my brain is mush... how exactly does cleave work w...
sbs already flurries, but it throws 2 more, so all 3 with flurry
and that's 5 charges, or 3 spikes
so instead of 3 charges flurrying
you get 15
mental trout
wow, thats going to be strong as hell. looking forward to it. Glad i switched to necro before i took a break and got it max.
nimble tartan
do trinks get elab planned
balmy condor
no
balmy condor
no
nimble tartan
ok ty!
balmy condor
np
marsh flicker
is the best assa m+ cov choice, necrolord?
strange python
balmy condor
is the best assa m+ cov choice, necrolord?
yes
marsh flicker
thanks @balmy condor
west cove
zoldyck rank2 instead of rank4 doomblade in slg?
umbral smelt
hey so i’m new to sin, bc i just can’t do decent dps as sub in heroic raid, i’m currently maxed venthyr would it be a huge loss in dps if i stayed venthyr?
west cove
venthyr is good
umbral smelt
would i be better off going zoldyck you think? since doomblade benefits off of necro?
umbral smelt
okay thanks, just getting frustrated bc pvp as sub i’m golden in pub rateds i’m usually top kills and in the top damage done, things like torg and other content my dps is pretty solid but nathria heroic i can’t do any better than 2.5k
fallen arch
It’s pretty trash atm yeah for raids
umbral smelt
everyone keeps telling sub is dead for the raid so i’m making the switch, but just don’t feel like grinding another cov if it’s not absolutely necessary
fallen arch
For m+ too from what I’ve seen.. but it looks a lot better for 9.1. You can also wait and sit this out till the buffs come
umbral smelt
that’s true, i enjoy pvp more anyways but need those vault items lol
drifting cosmos
It feels like sub has not been that good in pve for a long time
fallen arch
Well, if you get the hang of it assassination is loads of fun
And can also be very good for pvp in the right hands
drifting cosmos
Last time I remembered sub was good, DFA was still a thing
umbral smelt
i was dumb and jumped in at pre shadowlands release, and i played awhile back and know how the nerfs usually work, but still saw the vids saying sub was so broken they were the best at every content dps wise and as soon as i hit 60 they got nerfed to shit in pve lol
and yeah i like assassination so far, main thing holding me back was the covenant switch
and the good sin rogues in heroics i’ve seen are like always top 2 dps but a decent bit
fallen arch
As long as you’re not kyrian tho that shouldn’t be an issue
umbral smelt
by*
flat kindle
Hey guys im an outlaw necro but im going to try mythic raid next tier as an assa. Should I swap to venthyr ? even if i want to play both (m+ n raid)
fallen arch
Stay necro
flat kindle
ty
fallen arch
Venthyr is a little better st, but necro wins everywhere there’s more than 1 target. So you’re good
And for 9.1 it’s probably even better for cleave/aoe
misty zenith
meeh switching
i hate switching
I will wait a bit, when we are a bit further into the patch
Since on PTR it's not always the best for definite choices like that, in most of the raid testing i could see an ST spec like Assa do really well
undone lodge
hey guys 🍺
west cove
dunno covenant swap is easy if you go spam normal dung to 7renown then heroic dungs to 12 m0 lfr m+ you can get mid 20s then complete campaing boom u have 35
its still pain since it requires at least 7-8 hours of gameplay
undone lodge
did it really affect assa (i mean significantly) to change covenant from Fae to Venthyr right now? is it worth the time because we have to build renown again?
balmy condor
We’re all going necro
undone lodge
or Necro
balmy condor
It’s definitely worth
Necro is better in single target, better in aoe, better in everything
And like the guy above me said
You can farm it just by playing the game normally for like a week or two
quaint carbon
where do I add the combo point on health bar with a plater profile ?
balmy condor
Idk who shaguar is, but I probably would want to swap before the patch
Because the patch means you’ll want the renown already farmed, for ya know, the new content
misty zenith
I am a noob, but i've seen time and time again people say: Swap before patch
and then a month in after patch, the difference is either so small or the other covenant still wins or something
This is why i am hesitant to swap before patch
quaint carbon
ohh nvm i found combo on plater
shrewd night
and then a month in after patch, the difference is either so small or the other ...
Guess what. If you have already swapped, being at 40 when patch drops.. You can just swap back if it turns out the other covenant is better after all.
misty zenith
Ye you can ofc
misty zenith
But not if you have not yet swapped from Venthyr to Necrolord
undone lodge
Guess what. If you have already swapped, being at 40 when patch drops.. You can ...
and start from zero gain? or not?
misty zenith
In my case atm
balmy condor
is teher a way to sim it?
You can sim soulbinds using top gear,the new soulbinds arent in yet. Just add like 60-70 dps to necro because of the crit fix
shrewd night
But not if you have not yet swapped from Venthyr to Necrolord
Well thats why you swap before the patch. 
misty zenith
I don't want to really swap to necrolord if the difference overall for raiding is like 1-2%
balmy condor
and start from zero gain? or not?
Covenants keep their renown
misty zenith
Which i will only find out when the patch is underway right, not right now in PTR
undone lodge
You can sim soulbinds using top gear,the new soulbinds arent in yet. Just add li...
ahhhh ok ok, thanks
misty zenith
There is no consistent data to prove that atm, or am i not seeing it
balmy condor
Data to prove what?
undone lodge
Covenants keep their renown
i mean, i still in fae, when i change to necro, the renown will still be at 40?
dense cedar
I know all the True Data
shrewd night
There are no downsides to swapping before the patch. Thats it.
balmy condor
i mean, i still in fae, when i change to necro, the renown will still be at 40?
No, each covenant has its own progression, if you swap back to Fae, you’ll be back at 40, but if you’ve never been necro, you’d start at 0
balmy condor
There are no downsides to swapping before the patch. Thats it.
But daaaaad I have to farm like 3 days of renown
shrewd night
misty zenith
@balmy condor So data to prove Necrolord is overall the better covenant for Sanctum atm
Then Venthyr
undone lodge
No, each covenant has its own progression, if you swap back to Fae, you’ll be ba...
ahhh naruhodo!! so i think it's fine to change
misty zenith
So my idea was to wait a month into 9.1 to see from logs if necrolord wins lets say 70% of the fights over Venthyr
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> So data to prove Necrolord is overall the better covenant...
Necro sims 65 under venthyr for single target on live for my character, the crit fix would add 58
I don’t think that 7 dps difference
shrewd night
So my idea was to wait a month into 9.1 to see from logs if necrolord wins lets ...
Gratz, now you are wasting time during prog to level your reknown, harming your own dps
undone lodge
So my idea was to wait a month into 9.1 to see from logs if necrolord wins lets ...
this is actually not a bad idea too, imo
dense cedar
Necrolord ugly tho
balmy condor
But yeah
Waiting for logs
To then swap
And then be behind during prog
Seems pretty troll
shrewd night
???
misty zenith
IF that is 1% its not really a massive gap right
dense cedar
well u'll have to grind all 40 renown
balmy condor
If you swap and have 0 renown
dense cedar
40+ i mean
shrewd night
Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing or whats going on? Sim the difference if you need to know.
undone lodge
40+ i mean
ahhh i forgot this!! thanks
misty zenith
pfff 😄
We raid between on a sunday and thursday, so my idea was when necrolord proves to be really better on live data. I have monday until thursday to get that sorted
hasty loom
question about MA, if i go into stealth with 5 CP and use a dispatch out of stealth is that ability that i pop to get out of stealth included in the crit window? or is the buff not active till after i pop the ability to get out of stealth????
dense cedar
gathering renown now probably easier than it'll be on patch release tbh
balmy condor
question about MA, if i go into stealth with 5 CP and use a dispatch out of stea...
It’s included
But also dispatch 
dense cedar
im currently leveling venthyr to 30
hasty loom
It’s included
so in that case dispatch is better to use out of stealth then ambush some times if i already have combo points
dense cedar
then swapping to zombies
balmy condor
We don’t take your kind round here buddy
wide bolt
so in that case dispatch is better to use out of stealth then ambush some times ...
yea you wanna ambush/dispatch out of stealth for CtO
but also
balmy condor
Dispatch outluls
shrewd night
I mean, if you truly want to be suboptimal during prog and not use your time efficiently, I guess that works too 
@misty zenith
dense cedar
@balmy condor what buffs do i keep?
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> what buffs do i keep?
Envenom
hasty loom
Assasination is eww 😛
dense cedar
Sin is melee warlock
balmy condor
Assasination is eww 😛
Outlaw is a bad warrior spec bye bye
misty zenith
@shrewd night I guess, but that depends on how far necrolord is above venthyr no? Because if the difference between both is like now on retail there is hardly an incentive to change in the first place no?
balmy condor
<@!162298395090747393> I guess, but that depends on how far necrolord is above v...
The incentive is that it crushes on anything more than 1 target
hasty loom
Outlaw is a bad warrior spec bye bye
hahah want to learn assasination but watch a rotation guide in m+ abd got disheartened
balmy condor
Unless you think everything is single target
If you think everything is single target
Then yeah
Necro bad I guess
dense cedar
Tunnel vision gaming
shrewd night
I get it, you dont want to swap now. Ima stop wasting my breath trying to explain why swapping later is bad. Enjoy.
misty zenith
Ok wow, just asking about it. But we can be like this aight