mainly did for the meme of getting my gm to keep changing it on the spreadsheet haha
#assassination
red bloom
balmy condor
lmao
vestal wren
venthyr is still on pure st ahead
balmy condor
seems to be almost irrelevant though
red pagoda
I hope blizz will fix the bone spike cp bug at some point
vestal wren
i would need to sim to have concrete numbers
but the main reason for necro is that its good outside of st while still peforming good enough on st
raven geode
And you get to throw spikes at people
red bloom
i sim like 150-200 more as venthyr on patchwork for sure
balmy condor
i would need to sim to have concrete numbers
but the main reason for necro is t...
with the info we have now, it's within 70, or 1%
vestal wren
necrolord is (since beta) the best gameplay wise, just was not tuned decently
cobalt flame
How nice would it be if instead of 2nd leggo in like 9.2 or 9.3 or whatever we could choose 2nd covenant 
red pagoda
and grind double the renown?
cobalt flame
Nah just like Yeah you are venthyr but you helped us a lot so here, have a necro ability
cobalt flame
grim jay
necrolord is (since beta) the best gameplay wise, just was not tuned decently
I simed yesterday on my other rogue with 225 ilvl and it was indeed a 70 dps difference on 5 min ST. And you prolly dont use Flag as efficiently as the sims do I guess
cobalt flame
Renown stays even if i switch right? Like if i had 40 somewhere and I come back to that covenant i am still 40?
vestal wren
but you need to farm renown on the covenant you switch to
cobalt flame
Thinking about switching to necro just to farm 40 renown if i need it some day
I have 40 NF and Venthyr
wide hawk
Thinking about switching to necro just to farm 40 renown if i need it some day
it's a great reason to do it - and you can't go wrong with necro now
I went from venthyr to necro over the weekend and while it sims a little lower on ST, necro gameplay is more fun
red pagoda
I did the same thing with venthyr recently, now I'm back to necro
cobalt flame
I like venthyr a lot, but since i was chosen to play most mechanics in our mythic raid the flag usage isnt that optimal :/
- if I ever "need" to go outlaw for something, necro is just better right?
balmy condor
yes
wide hawk
the wet slapping sound of a boner spike is a lot more enjoyable than flagellation ^_^
shrewd night
spice spire
the wet slapping sound of a boner spike is a lot more enjoyable than flagellatio...
Bro? That’s illegal
scenic meteor
I went from venthyr to necro over the weekend and while it sims a little lower o...
I did the same yesterday 🙂 it’s nice change
silver yacht
Sorry guys, has anyone made a list for the next raid for the best spec for each boss?
balmy condor
that's an impossible question to answer
spice spire
Since tuning isn’t 100% completed nor has the release date been revealed, imma assume no
burnt latch
Is there a guide somewhere on how to use sbs in st, cleave and aoe?
Didnt find any info on wowhead / ravenholdt
balmy condor
Wowhead has a note on it
odd hazel
why do people want things like this so early
sin might be in a good spot now but, we might get nerfed in the next month
¯_(ツ)_/¯
balmy condor
Nothing to do in game gives people a lot of time to worry about things
burnt latch
On pure st fights (no adds) do you even recast sbs or do I just let it sit on 3 stacks?
The guide says to hold 2 stacks for possible inc adds
odd hazel
On pure st fights (no adds) do you even recast sbs or do I just let it sit on 3 ...
yes, you dump on gemstone
burnt latch
Gotcha, ty
balmy condor
What’s it missing
scenic meteor
How do you guys keep track of when gemstone procs
odd hazel
a weak aura is the best thing
balmy condor
Yeah just a simple weakaura does the trick fine
odd hazel
What’s it missing
just feels like something is always....not quite right? im not sure how to phrase it but ye
when people say they saw something atleast
balmy condor
I find the wowhead guide to be the most dense and correct on information because mystler tends to pull everything directly from the sim apl
scenic meteor
I mean wowhead still recommends night fae right ?
And zoldyck for every nathria fight
balmy condor
I mean it’s not perfect, and it’s definitely aimed at beginners more than anything
But the rotation stuff is usually spot on
To be fair, I don’t read the guides often
So Idk what specific things might be outdated from the start of the patch to now, etc
It’s just been where I go to in my experience
scenic meteor
I guess the problem with this expansion is best covenants are always changing which means guides get out dated
odd hazel
tbh, its why i mostly rely on class discords for quick up-to-date things.
the peeps here are amazing at keeping important info updated
balmy condor
There’s also things like when you get geared and then deeper+bs is the move over vigor
And ep+vig on sludge
And theotar cheese
scenic meteor
When are you meant to use deeper and bs?
balmy condor
Usually every single target fight
scenic meteor
Really? I’ve never used it - always ep-vig
I am rather new though, I’m just doing heroic raiding
balmy condor
Ep vig sims a little lower
You run ep vig on sludge for the burst windows
Slg and sun king are ep vig because the aoe
As is altimor
scenic meteor
Rest are deep-bs?
balmy condor
Denathrius on prog should be deeper bs
balmy condor
Rest are deep-bs?
It’s not really that cut and dry
burnt latch
Depends on where on prog tbf
balmy condor
Depends on where on prog tbf
P3 is the only phase that matters on denath
burnt latch
Not when youre progressing p1, p2 or early p3
balmy condor
burnt latch
Its the same thing as not lusting before p3 just cuz youre not supposed to
balmy condor
You mean the phases where people have to stop dealing damage
burnt latch
If it means ull get to p3 easier
balmy condor
Because they literally do too much of it
burnt latch
U lust
scenic meteor
Do you think deeper-bs for inerva hc?
shadow tusk
You dont want to mess with ur damage profile tho
burnt latch
Thats not how it works on progression mate
shadow tusk
Then u just reprog
burnt latch
For most guilds atleast
balmy condor
That’s also a good point
If I’m progging p1 sire
I’m not going to go ep vig hidden blades
And then swap to ep vig ct doomblade for p2
and then swap to bs deeper ct zold for p3
burnt latch
Nah i dont think thats true, cuz when youre actually at that point of prog when you going BS instead of EP will be difference between a kill or not, most of your raid team has gotten more comfortable in p2 so ur dmg will become irrelevant
It doesnt make sense to run a spec designed for p3 if u cant get to p3 consistently because of lack of dmg
shadow tusk
Well if u multiply that Logic by x20 ur raids damage profile Will change
balmy condor
That seems like terrible advice
balmy condor
It’s not uncommon to be highest boss damage in p1 and highest damage on the miniboss you’re assigned cd’s on
Your damage is hardly irrelevant
shrewd night
It doesnt make sense to run a spec designed for p3 if u cant get to p3 consiste...
Then your teammates need to start pull their load. If your spec is designed to carry and make the last phase easier, they need to step up in the previous phases. They will grow accustomed to your damage profile over prog if you for some reason decide to not prog as the spec youll bring for the kill.
balmy condor
And changing from say doomblade to zold can and has for people before, changed timings in p2
And changing timings because you decided to play differently
Means reprog
:) very fun and cool
warm parcel
Imma go with a disagree on not swapping 
When youre proging and getting comfy with p2, your p2 should improve naturally, allowing you to then swap to "lower p2" build
Making it a somewhat neutral overall for p2 then
But you shouldnt really be drastic with it to the point of swapping your hunter cds from a pack to another cause that plays a far bigger impact than say you swapping a talent
burnt latch
Okay lets agree to disagree on this one. Do you feel the same way about lusting early to meet dps/hps checks on prog to keep the pull alive aswell?
shadow tusk
On sire or in general
warm parcel
depends
burnt latch
In general
shadow tusk
Yeah u Can do that
warm parcel
If youre only using it to see something new, it should be fine
shadow tusk
Yolo lusts work
shrewd night
^
warm parcel
Like a boomer story: when we first reached enrage on argus, the lad had 30% hp
Then you redo it
After 50 redos the boss had 12%
then it eventually died
burnt latch
Okay lets say youve been to p3 multiple times, and for some reason ull need a lust in p2 sire to get to practice p3
warm parcel
With nothing other than you getting more comfy changing
balmy condor
I wouldn’t want that, cause if a lust is needed to get out of that phase, the phase ain’t done
shadow tusk
We lusted gloomveil and duskhollow for tanks to get used to the movement
warm parcel
In a sense youre wasting time on a pull thats not going to be a kill. So depends how close you are
low girder
^
gusty mirage
Do you think deeper-bs for inerva hc?
It’s fine, at the end it’s still just a ST fight because the adds should insta-melt ideally
warm parcel
Like if your last wipe was 35%? Sure lust ahead and prac
If you were at 2%? just gonext
burnt latch
Agreed on that
And at that point i would also swap from ep to bs
Its the same exact logic
So i dont understand why a lot of you are so against that, but are fine with lusting
split grail
is poisoned knife ever used?
warm parcel
I was on the side of swapping
low girder
if you can't hit a target for whatever reason, sure
warm parcel
In case I worded it poorly
burnt latch
Ah fair
warm parcel
But again, not like swapping sets of cds
That can just literally hault the p2 at that point
warm parcel
But say were progging new boss in 91.
We may very well lust on pull first 10 pulls to get further. Then as folks get more comfy, p1 starts going fine without lust
Same exact was a thing on sire
balmy condor
So i dont understand why a lot of you are so against that, but are fine with lus...
Sending a yolo lust to get into a phase when someone dies is much different than running stuff for 150 pulls that you won’t run after that
warm parcel
Eventually it got to the point you afk in p1
But day one you had to lust to reach p2
burnt latch
But say were progging new boss in 91.
We may very well lust on pull first 10 pul...
This is exactly what I was trying to say aswell, u worded it way better than I did
warm parcel
But this is also dayone proge
Versus proge thats months into tier
So starting point can be very different too
shadow tusk
Lust Will help you see more of the fight but an entire raid grp changing talents based on what phase theyre progging is no bueno imo.
burnt latch
Yeah for sure, but my idea behind the statement was that when we get to sire pulls that are few % off a kill, p1 and p2 most likely will be easy enough for most of the raid team, that a small tweak to lose 1-3% dmg from myself in p2 to get 1-3% more dmg from me in p3 wont cause any sort of reprog and will most likely have cut down the overall total amount of pulls
shadow tusk
But if everyone loses 1-3% dmg in P1 and P2 its noticable
balmy condor
Swapping from ep/vig/doom to bs/deeper/zold is like a 10-15% loss on p2 miniboss from what I’ve seen
warm parcel
Well in my xp in cases like this, the overall dps of raid improved so much due to repetition that its fine
burnt latch
I dont think it will at tht point. As someone said, when u get to that part or prog people are having to stop dps in p2
low girder
i mean maybe your groups are different but all our minibosses are absolutely massively overkilled
burnt latch
i mean maybe your groups are different but all our minibosses are absolutely mas...
Ours too
low girder
or, were
shrewd night
I dont think it will at tht point. As someone said, when u get to that part or p...
Youd be surprised 
low girder
it's been a while 
warm parcel
Its all feelcraft anyway
Yalls groups are wildly different
So who knows what works
low girder
there's never a blanket statement on that kinda thing yeah
burnt latch
Yeah I dont think theres an universal right wrong answer here tbf
shrewd night
Its pretty easy
If your guild is good, it wont matter much
If your guild is dog like mine, it will snowball
warm parcel
low girder
are you guys any closer 
shrewd night
Soon (tm)
low girder
shrewd night
Hopefully before next tier (tm)
shrewd night
FOR SHURE
low girder
low girder
maybe
tulip nacelle
warm parcel
smokebomb for raidspots?
low girder
maybe then my brain will make up its mind on apping somewhere or quitting 
warm parcel
spice spire
Ngl I’m feeling 2022 release
balmy condor
Blizzard should just dump the patch randomly
shrewd night
maybe then my brain will make up its mind on apping somewhere or quitting <:lul:...
Same.jpg 
burnt latch
Hotfix 9.1 on a friday
balmy condor
Do unplanned maint on like a Friday morning
burnt latch
Pog
warm parcel
friday patch madness
balmy condor
Oh god so much salt
burnt latch
Man id love that
warm parcel
gimme gimme
low girder
Same.jpg <:POGGERS:744669386782277673>
i've put like 70h into Horizon the last 2 weeks
getting into OT territory though
warm parcel
just dont tell whispyr
shrewd night
Ye, lets continue there
burnt latch
My favorite past time atm is to go to hellfire peninsula on tbc and argue why wow token would be a nice change, i like to see the world burn
warm parcel
tldr
Imo its fine to swap off ep
Yall wont wipe cause of it, or if you do, its your smallest issue :D
balmy condor
Bigger problem to me would be the lego swap
Ep/vig to blindside/deeper shouldnt be too bad
burnt latch
Yeah I do agree on the lego change as it changes your dmg profile quite significantly
warm parcel
Honestly just gotta try
If you wipe to p2 after and someone yells at you
Then just go back
burnt latch
People yell at me no matter what 
warm parcel
We fex had our hunters spec into >80% talent and had others do less on remornia
So we could cleave her more
Overall better, but everyone had to change this n that in their p2
dry void
wtb raidwide feint on a 2m cd
balmy condor
Leaking secret memento strats? 
warm parcel
very secret
balmy condor
Need to enter a password to get them
warm parcel
I feel we shuffle a fair bit of stuff around when we proge further
But something like SLG cd sets we never really touched
They were set in stone day1
warm parcel
Huutia
burnt latch
sonic schooner
👀
shrewd night
The higher you go in discord rank, the more shit you are. And then you have outliers like weak and lok 
shrewd night
He had to defect afaik
warm parcel
shrewd night
Priest, no?
shrewd night
burnt latch
Have you guys made a decision on your 9.1 prog roster already?
warm parcel
na
west cove
little irrelevant buy how to parse in altimor? should i not ignore shades?
plain thistle
little irrelevant buy how to parse in altimor? should i not ignore shades?
why would you ignore shades?
balmy condor
little irrelevant buy how to parse in altimor? should i not ignore shades?
Doomblade, and then mut spam the shades hella hard
plain thistle
more targets to dot, put sbs on to reset
west cove
lol
burnt latch
warr/rog still up in the air
Fair, general idea of what the roster will look like there already tho I assume?
balmy condor
Like I’m not kidding, unless they magically removed that bug
Actually Just Spam mut
Fuck the overcap
warm parcel
no general idea no
burnt latch
west cove
well i ignored shades since i thought damage on them were remowed in wcl
wasnt that the case
balmy condor
well i ignored shades since i thought damage on them were remowed in wcl
It’s normalized to 100%
west cove
while ago
balmy condor
But doomblade double dips
west cove
ah i see
balmy condor
So the mut damage is normalized
sonic schooner
Ct pog
balmy condor
And then the doomblade dot isnt
balmy condor
You also gotta have a nice kill time where you can get cooldowns Just in time for the last phase
That increased damage at the end is crazy
red pagoda
is assassination with zoldyck good on slg?
haughty totem
is assassination with zoldyck good on slg?
doomblade is better
bright pasture
do people play more and more outlaw for fast mythic clears
limber lion
No it is not.
limber lion
is assassination with zoldyck good on slg?
Yes, Zoldyck is the best choice.
limber lion
do people play more and more outlaw for fast mythic clears
Not really.
People just default to whichever they like more, and maybe change depending on the content they do. Sin is better for raids, Outlaw better for mythic+.
strange python
Hey all, if i plan to play assa and outlaw only in m+, which cov is best ?
limber lion
whats the rotation like with sbs?
Sbs as your first gcd instead of muti, otherwise the same
limber lion
Hey all, if i plan to play assa and outlaw only in m+, which cov is best ?
Necrolord
strange python
Alright, thank you @limber lion !
limber lion
My pleasure
frail fossil
whats the rotation like with sbs?
what Cev said, ur first GCD is SBS, then you use SBS during the gemstone crit buff
random fossil
since i dont have to refresh it do i ever use it again?
limber lion
whats the rotation like with sbs?
what Flower said, ur first GCD is SBS, then you use SBS during the gemstone crit buff, making sure to also use SBS to avoid overcapping. Dumping everything during Gemstone windows will get rid of this problem, but it arises again when you start adding more targets.
random fossil
okay okay
limber lion
You dump all of the charges during the Heirmir's gemstone windows.
random fossil
i see
limber lion
So during the opener you press it 3 times because you get the crit buff during your opener
Then you just save everything for the next gemstone window.
You of course still follow the normal generator/finisher rules. Meaning that you don't use SBS at max-1 combo points and instead use a finisher.
random fossil
thank you @limber lion
limber lion
Bruh.
limber lion
thank you <@!165215952479322112>
No worries mate! 
night prawn
Whats the reasoning behind SBS first global? To get the CD back faster?
tulip nacelle
get the bleed up and not sitting at 3 charges
random fossil
what makes necro strong in aoe?
tulip nacelle
spreading sbs and resets of sbs
limber lion
what makes necro strong in aoe?
The nature of the ability promotes usage in AoE. Killing targets resets the cooldown of SBS, having multiple bleeds up on multiple targets will give more combo points per SBS used etc.
There is no cap in how many targets you can affect with SBS, so for example with the new legendary Deathspike you can hit up to 15 targets with the initial 5 stacks.
And even more after you get stacks back when mobs start to die.
It's the same principle even without the legendary, just not to such extreme lengths.
random fossil
so torn between necro and venthyr 😄
sturdy wasp
Necro will be avaible in raid too in 9.1? Or venthyr will be the best choice again?
visual prairie
they're all available
sturdy wasp
I wanna do plus and raid at same time... i don’t know who is the best choice overall
limber lion
Necro will be avaible in raid too in 9.1? Or venthyr will be the best choice aga...
Who knows. Balance and tuning is not complete yet.
But Necrolord is looking like a really solid, versatile choice for most content.
limber lion
I wanna do plus and raid at same time... i don’t know who is the best choice ove...
Definitely Necrolord, if you're planning to do both m+ and raid.
sturdy wasp
Definitely Necrolord, if you're planning to do both m+ and raid.
This sound good thx a lot
limber lion
I've been Night Fae, Venthyr twice and Necrolord twice, and Necrolord is by far my favorite Covenant.
SBS is too good of an ability.
strange python
I'm currently venthyr and playing assa in raids / outlaw in m+ is it worth swapping to necro right now or would it be safer to do it just before 9.1 drops
wanton mortar
well if in doubt swap now, you will have both at renown 40 for 9.1
balmy condor
I'm currently venthyr and playing assa in raids / outlaw in m+ is it worth swapp...
Was worth swapping 3 months ago 
Jokes aside yes it’s worth
If you play outlaw and don’t go necro, that’s an F
strange python
man I'm gonna miss the venthyr mog though
limber lion
man I'm gonna miss the venthyr mog though
Do you use Venthyr tmog actively?
strange python
I'm a full set andy so yeah
strange python
there's not a lot of leather sets I like tbh
limber lion
Yep, leather sets are not the best.
void gazelle
Can you help with the proper opener as a necrolord?
void gazelle
With vigor
limber lion
Here's my opener on Shriekwing the other day.
Important things to note:
SBS as the first gcd
Shiv immediately after Rupture and Vanish right after
Use both leftover SBS during the gemstone window. You should be at 0 SBS stacks after your opener, so you don't overcap before the next gemstone window.
If you're at 3CP after the first mutilate in your vanish window, you would mutilate again to get to 5 CP before using Envenom.
It might be hard to read that, but this is pretty much the rotation:
SBS - SnD - Muti - Garrote - Rupture - Shiv - Vendetta - Vanish - Muti - Env - Muti
void gazelle
Awsome, thanks you very much!
teal bloom
Do you mutilate first in the ma window even when using vigor? It's probably like 0.1 dps difference but is it better than building to max-1 before vanishing?
limber lion
Do you mutilate first in the ma window even when using vigor? It's probably like...
It's a very marginal thing. It's just one gcd, so it's not much of a gain or loss either way over 5 minutes.
The most important thing is to keep Vendetta/Vanish cooldowns as closely sync'd as possible so you don't need to hold either when they eventually come off cooldown.
I've done some pulls where I stalled Vanish for whatever reason, then I used a Vend + Shiv together when they came up the next time only for my Vanish to come off cooldown after Shiv already had dropped, because I didn't pay attention to my Vanish cooldown.
Doing 300 damage (or whatever it is, idk) more with a single Envenom will be worse than not syncing all 3 cooldowns and/or missing out on a cast because you held the ability for a few seconds.
teal bloom
Yeah, it's happened to me too :D I've been using envenom after vanish with both vigor and ds
limber lion
Actually out of interest I decided to sim it, forcing the APL to get to 4-5CP before using vanish
As you can see the apl change is -17 dps for my profile
limber lion
EP/Vigor
silver fog
What about a case where im going to mostly raid, with casually progressing through m+ (max vault lv, maybe +20s later for achievement, but not pushing higher for no reason)? Playing only assa, currently NF. Should I swap to necro/venthyr?
limber lion
What about a case where im going to mostly raid, with casually progressing throu...
You should honestly swap to Necrolord.
It's such a good covenant for our toolkit for all content.
Night Fae is very underwhelming currently.
stoic needle
You can do 20s as every covenant but going necro will make it easier
silver fog
More concerned abour raid. Especially this venthyr leggo (provided its not bugged) looks tempting
stoic needle
It's worse than doomblade
Our kit has no synergy with it
With no interactions with the legendary it's not special. The only reason it's good for sub is because their kit interacts with the legendary in some ways
limber lion
The necrolord legendary is looking really strong for m+ and heavy AOE encounters, but the other covenant legendaries are quite underwhelming.
teal bloom
I guess delaying vanish for a few seconds can sometimes cause missing a cast of vanish if fight length is 4 minutes 10 seconds or something like that. I wonder if the difference with deeper stratagem is higher
limber lion
Doomblade or Dashing Scoundrel will probably be the go-to legendaries, but we know nothing yet, so no point speculating about it either yet.
limber lion
I guess delaying vanish for a few seconds can sometimes cause missing a cast of ...
Here's the sim with BS/DS as well
It's -18DPS for BS/DS and -17 for EP/Vig
So pretty much the same loss for both talent combos
teal bloom
Interesting, ty.
thin imp
any good simulation for slg? Also, I guess that zoldyck is better beause of p3?
limber lion
any good simulation for slg? Also, I guess that zoldyck is better beause of p3?
Zoldyck is better because it's 2T with heavy, constant add spawns.
But yes, it helps in P3 quite a bit as well.
There isn't really a surefire way to sim for SLG, but 2 target HecticAddCleave can give you some idea
thin imp
the adds doesnt last longs, I am just applying CT but not bleeding them all, should I?
limber lion
But do take boss specific sims with a grain of salt.
strange python
Where could I find necro assa rotation guides for st and aoe
stoic needle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
limber lion
the adds doesnt last longs, I am just applying CT but not bleeding them all, sho...
You should if they live the duration. Often they will, but not necessarily the first ones because everyone blasts the cooldowns at once.
strange python
Also do you guys feel like you’re hesitating to throw out your vendetta in keys
limber lion
I often find myself using SBS - Rup - SBS - Rup - SBS - CT on the adds
limber lion
Also do you guys feel like you’re hesitating to throw out your vendetta in keys
Not really.
thin imp
on skirmish or commandos?
limber lion
You just use it on cooldown, holding it for Pride/Bosses when necessary.
limber lion
on skirmish or commandos?
Both.
It's very different depending on your tactics of course.
I'm currently doing the slow start with my new guild, so I cannot throw bleeds and whatnot on commandos
But SBS is a lot of damage, especially if you are single-target-killing them
thin imp
yesterday was the first try to the boss, I am venthyr, which sucks in this fight but found quite hard to maintain a good damage tho, probably doing a lot of things wrong
limber lion
yesterday was the first try to the boss, I am venthyr, which sucks in this fight...
Venthyr is not awful.
It's not the best for sure, but it's not awful.
It helps you funnel damage where it's needed, be it on the boss or the goliath.
thin imp
it felt bad to be assassin, I guess that is because I didn't know how to properly do things, its like a m+ withour restealth
limber lion
I mean it gets better with practice.
I enjoy the fight quite a bit as assassination
Outlaw was fun as well, ngl.
alpine latch
If we ever made it to SKS I'd have tried Outlaw in raid... But that never happened
odd hazel
outlaw felt awful in raid to me for some reason
thorn fjord
woot woot swapping back to sin/venth for sire prog
Its good to be back after 450+ pulls on slg LOL
simple wadi
Stay necro on sire
thorn fjord
Really?
scenic root
I have been trying to improve my performance on mythic council, so I was reviewing top logs and noticed most logs aren't multi doting the bosses. Am I playing it wrong by trying to maintain the 5 bleeds
simple wadi
Yea - it’s gnarly P2 and is bugged into P3 so you’ll be getting full cps for the first minute and a half
frail fossil
it's bugged all throughout the fight basically the adds u put SBS on doesn't count as dead once they disappea
thorn fjord
Ok cool.. was just watching vid's of rogue playthroughs on sire and most were running venth
ahhhh
nice
frail fossil
so SBS always give max CP
limber lion
I have been trying to improve my performance on mythic council, so I was reviewi...
The gain from multidotting is quite small, you should only try to keep up bleeds on one extra target.
simple wadi
The last minute of P3 there seems to be a reset on active sbs targets
limber lion
If you want to parse, you need to start slapping the waiters my guy
frail fossil
The last minute of P3 there seems to be a reset on active sbs targets
yes at the end of p3 the bugs end
around the overlap
simple wadi
It’s neglible- still hella worth to be necro
limber lion
Yeh.
frail fossil
yeah sbs is fucking cracked on sire
limber lion
Necrolord is definitely the play for Sire.
scenic root
I have been keeping up the 4 bleeds, I guess the top logs arnt what is optimal for prog.
thorn fjord
They have me doing the first soak so my opener is a bit weird... should i just put SND and rupture up and wait till first soak to vend??
limber lion
I have been keeping up the 4 bleeds, I guess the top logs arnt what is optimal f...
The thing is
I don't think it's "optimal" to keep up bleeds on a secondary target on progression
simple wadi
You should be soaking in range of the boss?
limber lion
I recommend just sitting on your main target
And focusing on doing mechanics properly
Council is a very mechanic-heavy fight with a lot of moving parts.
thorn fjord
You should be soaking in range of the boss?
im like just barely out of range for the soak
limber lion
Adding multi-dotting for prio damage for minimal gains is just not worth it
thorn fjord
with the other 2 guys im soaking with
limber lion
If you've killed Council several times, then you should do it
But then you should also look towards padding on the waiters
And the stoneguard
gloomy fern
But then you should also look towards padding on the waiters
dont do this
simple wadi
I guess get all your bleeds up and have a 5 CP ready for CT on adds
gloomy fern
very unethical
limber lion
If you want a better parse, that's what you gotta do.
If you want to eat shit, then you can go full st on the boss.
gloomy fern
i do 0 dmg to waiters 
limber lion
It is the world of PI and padding.
simple wadi
I mean the real unethical play is going outlaw
limber lion
Eh
simple wadi
I kid I kid
limber lion
The adds are just spread apart everywhere
They're not stacked
And you don't get anything from cleaving on the boss
frail fossil
I mean the real unethical play is going outlaw
outlaw has better attendant dmg
simple wadi
Attendant damage lol
thorn fjord
I guess get all your bleeds up and have a 5 CP ready for CT on adds
during adds... will i only need to cast CT for the bleed or will i want to replace env with CT after each cleansing pain?
Havent used CT much this tier
limber lion
during adds... will i only need to cast CT for the bleed or will i want to repla...
You should slap CT on them once and then just fill with Env
thorn fjord
kk ty
limber lion
I would recommend Envenoming a bit before the adds spawn, so you have increased poison application chance for your first 1-2 FoK's
And CT
But
simple wadi
You’ll then keep CT up outside of shiv windows (like during pie slice movement)
frail fossil
Attendant damage lol
yeah that was a thing if u didn't kill the boss 6 months after the release
limber lion
optimizing P1 damage is really
not that necessary
All of the juice comes from P2 honestly.
simple wadi
<:bigthink:801954052971167765> yeah that was a thing if u didn't kill the boss 6...
Fair enough - kinda trivial now
thorn fjord
Makes sense
limber lion
If there's single adds spawning, then sniping them with SBS is a fun thing to do
gloomy fern
wait if i swap guilds i can finally do dmg in p2 
frail fossil
Fair enough - kinda trivial now
Yeah everything is trivial after 2 nerfs and 12 more ilv
simple wadi
True true
limber lion
wait if i swap guilds i can finally do dmg in p2 <a:POGSLIDE:717804266101801012>
Private log damage
Huge!
frail fossil
cev in the private log depression
limber lion
bummer
Imagine shaming me for joining a private log guild and now considering doing the same thing
gloomy fern
limber lion
limber lion
That's what you get for being a beast.
gloomy fern
bet he only looked at sub logs
limber lion
gloomy fern
cus he knows where its at
thorn fjord
Would i be casting a 5cp CT after casting Vend out of vanish? or will that always be env?
limber lion
Would i be casting a 5cp CT after casting Vend out of vanish? or will that alway...
That's fine in P1
But generally you don't want to do that.
thorn fjord
figured
after playing pirate for the last month and a half im dumb now LOL
appreciate the help
limber lion
No worries mate!
thorn fjord
also i noticed that for the sin opener people are casting SBS before mutilate
limber lion
Yes, you should use SBS as your first gcd.
thorn fjord
the mutilate has to be instant right after the SBS or the opener is ruined right?
limber lion
Here's my opener
thorn fjord
but the second mut was never giving me enough cp
limber lion
You don't really need a lot of CP for SnD, you'll maintain it even if you get 1CP.
thorn fjord
that makes more sense hahaha
limber lion
For whatever reason the sim is seeing gains for casting SnD at 3+ CP instead of 1-2
But who knows why.
Even if you cast it at 1CP, you will maintain it for the entire fight on ST encounters.
thorn fjord
The sim bots are becoming self aware
hollow dirge
For whatever reason the sim is seeing gains for casting SnD at 3+ CP instead of ...
Just proves sims are also not perfect, they’re just closest thing to it
cerulean nest
is there an ideal time to press your pot during opener? lol. i kinda just slam it during vendetta before my first envenom
limber lion
is there an ideal time to press your pot during opener? lol. i kinda just slam i...
If you play Phantom Fire, it doesn't really matter. If you do the Theotar cheese, you use it in pre-pull.
If you play Spectral, then you should use it slightly before or together with your Vendetta.
So you have it for the entire Vendetta window.
rose harness
Is it better to hold shiv when you have 5 CP or overcap and cast shiv ?
limber lion
Is it better to hold shiv when you have 5 CP or overcap and cast shiv ?
You would slam Shiv and waste the combo points generated by it.
rose harness
👍 thanks, that's what i figured
dim temple
If you play Spectral, then you should use it slightly before or together with yo...
Do u use SBS just when need CP
limber lion
^ what the man said.
harsh anchor
Do you dump all 3 continuously or weave envenoms in between
limber lion
Do you dump all 3 continuously or weave envenoms in between
You still follow the normal generator/finisher rules.
Meaning that you would weave in finishers and not just use 3 SBS back to back.
cerulean nest
man we're shaping up to be pretty damn strong 9.1 huh? the more I read the more it seems like that
odd hazel
we are already strong
harsh anchor
Okay okay good. Glad to hear that. Leveling up my Necro renown this week. Thanks.
cerulean nest
stronger
cerulean nest
pretty much haha
odd hazel
im dieing to know if we are still using doom or not
cerulean nest
not to mention that dagger
odd hazel
hurry up blizz
limber lion
Assassination is looking great.
But tuning and balancing is not finished yet, so anything can happen.
strange python
how do i do the theotar cheese? throw the potion in then swap back to nadija?
strange python
ty!
limber lion
how do i do the theotar cheese? throw the potion in then swap back to nadija?
- Use Tome of the Still Mind
- Swap to Theotar with the Refined Palate conduit active
- Use a potion in pre-pull (around 3-5s)
- Switch back to Nadja
strange python
thank you!
strange python
make sure its phantom fire + oils on mh/agil on OH
thanks i didnt even know that makes a difference
odd hazel
Phantom fire + oil for the big cheese chance
Thank our lovely info land lord @limber lion though
limber lion
The damage is similar for both, but Phantom Fire has a chance to go nuts.
If you're using a cheesy tactic, might as well aim for the maximum cheese.
limber lion
It sims worse than AP on one hand
But honestly that could be fine for the cheesy attempts.
stoic needle
why dont we put it on both weaps?
Read the tooltips for shadowcore oil and phantom pot. Having both weapons oiled doesn't make the pot do more damage
dawn ivy
you certainly can
stoic needle
It is fixing it for general use
odd hazel
i guess
stoic needle
The whole reason why we don't use it outside of the cheese is that it's too inconsistent
Now it will be consistent
odd hazel
yes but thats saying its broken in a sense
its just not consistent
more RNG isnt broken
stoic needle
Doesn't have to be broken to be bad 
limber lion
They are fixing the Theotar potion cheese.
odd hazel
^
limber lion
Or so has been rumoured.
slow marsh
They are also smoothing out the proc rate though
limber lion
Which potion we will use in 9.1 will come down to which sims better.
Yes, like Osh and Krey have been talking about lol @slow marsh
slow marsh
Yep
stoic needle
I wouldn't be suprised if since they sim pretty much the same we just use phantom on st and agi for aoe
slow marsh
Yeah it will probs be back to that
Idk how much the dps difference is going to be regardless though. It's already less than 1%
Wtb new pots
stoic needle
It's about chosing the best damage profile for the situation
Less about overall dps
limber lion
If they sim similarly
I will always choose Spectral Agi
Not only are they more consistent, they are also cheaper on the AH
slow marsh
Truuuuuuuuuuu
tacit wedge
Hey, quick question
Does Seal Fate interact with Serrated Bone Spike?
limber lion
Yes it does.
tacit wedge
Thanks
limber lion
tacit wedge
fell back in love with sin rogue
limber lion
That's great to hear, love to see more sin players.
dark crag
1/2 of a patch it was bad and the world was ruined
hollow river
Now if only we could get 3 in every raid group and not just mine (:
tacit wedge
I often miss Legion sin rogue
Started playing sin during legion
Loved the kingslayer and vendetta trait
alpine latch
Sin was amazing in Legion
I ran Outlaw for world stuff (because Grappling Hook OP), but Sin for everything else
tacit wedge
"poison bomb activated, please dont move"
Tank kiting the pack back to Dalaran because it's 27 fortified
shy dust
royal lantern
1/2 of a patch it was bad and the world was ruined
you know the rules pal, if something does low dmg, its bad and no fun, if it does dmg its great gameplay and fun
hollow dirge
"poison bomb activated, please dont move"
*Tank kiting the pack back to Dalaran ...
Always wished pb was on use.
My idea was it being on use, doing average dmg , but dmg done increased on each target with rupture . That would be a cool thing that correlates with how the spec works
tacit wedge
you know the rules pal, if something does low dmg, its bad and no fun, if it doe...
i mean, monkey brain tell me big dps=rewarding=fun
royal lantern
i mean
9.0 sin was shit cus SnD was pure dogshit
and should be removed next expac for all specs again pls
limber lion
Sin was shit for plenty of reasons
nocturne torrent
Tbf Sin has always been my favorite rogue, also the only spec that procs the special effect on my MOP CM set ☺️
limber lion
Not just because of SnD.
tacit wedge
godbless cut the chase was added
limber lion
Sin became good because Venthyr and Necro were buffed a shit ton, Doomblade was buffed a shit ton and we got a shit ton of aura buffs.
AND on top of that CTTC was introduced
And Envenom bug was fixed
royal lantern
i mean gameplay wise ceve
sand sigil
any word on the release of 9.1 sims?
royal lantern
dont need to tell me that for 90% of the people the spec became fun cus it does some dmg now lol
limber lion
any word on the release of 9.1 sims?
Not yet, most of the new stuff has not been implemented in the game or in the sims yet.
royal lantern
those are the same people that suddenly say that bonespear is such a cool abiility
and shit on it all the time during 9.0
limber lion
Like the new dagger has not been implemented properly yet
And some soulbinds are still buggy messes.
tacit wedge
i like bonespear but i picked Sepsis because it's just fire and forget
moved back to bonespear today, no regret
sand sigil
ok. yeah mainly just curious how the venth leggo gonna perform vs doom and how necro will perform vs venth
limber lion
We don't have any idea how dominion sockets work or how much dps they will provide either.
drifting cloud
venth leggo almost for sure worse than db
limber lion
It's looking like Necrolord and Venthyr are very close in performance, and Obedience being very, very bad for Sin.
tacit wedge
sin rogue fun in m+ 
alpine ore
Hello fellow rogues ! I am currently a venthyr rogue and I've been recently told that necrolord is now better than venthyr and will be for 9.1. I was wondering what you guys thought about that ?
It's with raiding in mind
limber lion
Necrolord is just the more versatile choice, it beats Venthyr when you introduce more targets.
odd hazel
Hello fellow rogues ! I am currently a venthyr rogue and I've been recently told...
It seems more suited for necro for sure
limber lion
Venthyr only pumps in single target, but loses the second you add any adds or extra targets.
alpine ore
Ah yeah that makes sense then considering there seems to be a lot of add or multiple target for 9.1 bosses
Thank you !
strange python
Hey I can’t seem to find a guide that’s shows when I press bone spike on ravenholdt website
Could someone please point me in the right direction:)
odd hazel
Hey I can’t seem to find a guide that’s shows when I press bone spike on ravenho...
Open with it, dump on gemstones, don’t let it cap and make sure if adds are there they have the dot
strange python
Single target do I use it to build combo points still after garrote from stealth
odd hazel
So
Your opener would look like
Quoting @limber lion
SBS - SnD - Muti - Garrote - Rupture - Shiv - Vendetta - Vanish - Muti - Env - Muti
limber lion
odd hazel
But you do not use it to gen combo points
strange python
What if thou art playing do stealth abilities for 3 seconds
lost mist
does CT works with nightstalker?
limber lion
does CT works with nightstalker?
Yes it does.
lost mist
Yes it does.
ty
limber lion
That is the entire point of the MA build in M+
Where you run NS/MFD/CT
You MFD from stealth and open with CT on packs
To get a full snapshotted Crimson Tempest on the mobs
But on single target or 2 targets, you would use MFD rupture instead.
strange python
SBS - SnD - Muti - Garrote - Rupture - Shiv - Vendetta - Vanish - Muti - Env - M...
But what if we are coming from stealth with the talent where we use stealth abilities for 3 seconds after breaking stealth
Cause I’ve been doing garrote ambush ambush
To open
tulip nacelle
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
odd hazel
I think you, open with garrote on 4 targets, SnD, spread SBS, then get CT rolling and then dump evenoms and spread rupture and garrote
Also
Never use ambush outside of BS procs
strange python
But what if it’s st
oak sky
like in raid with a full opener or m+ where you have snd still from the last pack you killed
oak sky
what i would probably do is garrote from stealth then sbs, then build to a 4-5 cp rupture then go normal rotation
but in raid you need to snd
idk what you would do there exactly, i normally play ma for pure st in raid
strange python
Is there a lot of wrong ways to open that fuck you over on damage?
Depending on what the situation is
odd hazel
what i would probably do is garrote from stealth then sbs, then build to a 4-5 c...
Yeah pretty much this, regular rotation since you’ll have SnD up you would just rupture next, SBS, build with mut - get CT running and dump with evenoms and make sure bleeds don’t fall off
strange python
Do I CT on single target if I’m talented into it for m+
strange python
What if I’m playing dB
oak sky
yeah everyone says its still a dps increase
odd hazel
Can’t think of what DB is for some reason
strange python
Sweet ty
oak sky
doomblade
limber lion
You always want to use CT in single target outside of Shiv windows, regardless of legendary/talents/gear
It's a pretty minimal gain honestly, so it's also fine to just not bother
limber lion
But what if we are coming from stealth with the talent where we use stealth abil...
You don't play Subterfuge in raids, but in M+ you would Garrote - SBS - Muti - Rup - Vend - Shiv - Vanish
strange python
You always want to use CT in single target outside of Shiv windows, regardless o...
Do you hold shiv till all bleeds are up yeah? Before envenom spam
limber lion
Assuming you have SnD up already.
limber lion
Do you hold shiv till all bleeds are up yeah? Before envenom spam
In the opener, yes.
But after that you never let your bleeds drop and you never hold Shiv.
strange python
But after that you never let your bleeds drop and you never hold Shiv.
When at this point, how many ruptures do you get in a window?
And if my shiv buff is about to fall and I have less than 5 combo points do I still fire off the envenom
Ty for talking about this stuff btw
odd hazel
And if my shiv buff is about to fall and I have less than 5 combo points do I st...
Always finish at -1 max cp. even if shiv is about to fall off.
Any time~ ask any question you have honestly
limber lion
When at this point, how many ruptures do you get in a window?
At what point?
How many ruptures?
It's not really a thing we count
We don't count Envenom casts either, if you're doing that.
strange python
I meant envenom a sorry
In a shiv window
When your past the opener
And keeping bleeds up
Oh okay nw
limber lion
Yeah, we don't really count that
It doesn't really matter if it's 2 or 3 or 1.
The only thing that matters is that you use Shiv on cooldown.
strange python
Okay so fresh m+ pack, no buffs up, 5 targets, what’s the standard rotation or where would that be with necrolord thrown in
limber lion
Okay 5 targets as necrolord, playing with Zoldyck and EP/Subt/Vig/Alac/CT
So this is the very first pack of the dungeon?
Meaning that you don't have SnD up either
strange python
Playing with db if you don’t mind and yes
limber lion
You need to get a Zoldyck my boy
strange python
That I’m rerolling to
strange python
The difference is that big? Damn
limber lion
Doomblade is pretty bad because you get hardly any value from it in aoe
Doomblade revolves around Mutilate and Envenom
And we use both of those abilities pretty rarely in AoE
Envenom only to keep up SnD
strange python
Okay hit me with it with zoidberg
limber lion
You should have SnD up throughout the entire dungeon without having to reapply it
But I mean, the rotation is still the same
Regardless whether or not you play Zoldyck or Doom lol
strange python
Alright haha
limber lion
Simplified version without SND:
Garrote - Garrote - Garrote - Garrote - SnD - SBS - SBS - CT - SBS - Rup
After that you keep Garrote on cooldown, apply Ruptures to everything around you, apply SBS on new targets when you get a charge, maintain CT on all targets and maintain SnD with Envenom.
You should use Envenom to keep Slice n' Dice up, and use any excess combo points from packs to prolong SnD before opening up on a new pack
dusk mason
hmm is snd that important ? i uselly do rupture first
limber lion
You should never need to use Slice again after the first cast in M+.
limber lion
hmm is snd that important ? i uselly do rupture first
SnD is our best finisher, by far.
It might be boring, but that's just how it is.
dusk mason
ow shit. well then i have been playing wrong
strange python
You should never need to use Slice again after the first cast in M+.
Sweet good to know thank you so much for the tips. Do you use plater or how do you track aoe dots with pandemic windows
Melee is huge dam
Lol
limber lion
Sweet good to know thank you so much for the tips. Do you use plater or how do y...
Yes, I use plater.
oak sky
plater is so nice
limber lion
Here's my profile if you're interested, but I do recommend you to look at other profiles as well and find something that you like:
https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr
Whispyr has a good plater profile as well.
And there's a bunch in wago.
strange python
Does that work on the default ui
limber lion
Yes, but you just need to download the Plater addon.
strange python
Right, got it!
limber lion
I mean, the nameplates will obviously not be default ui
because you modify them with plater
That's the thing
But you can make them look like default nameplates if you so please
strange python
That’s fine I just don’t use elvui just wanted to make sure that wasn’t an issue
limber lion
Yeah, that's fine.
strange python
Does this overlap with big debuffs?
limber lion
No, you can use both.
You just need to setup Big Debuffs so it doesn't overlap with whatever nameplates you decide to go with.
subtle gyro
So i scrolled up a bit...looking like Necro is the play? better start grinding renown now before the patch
limber lion
So i scrolled up a bit...looking like Necro is the play? better start grinding r...
For most content, yeah.
Renown doesn't take too long to grind, but yeah, it's better to get it over with now sooner than later.
subtle gyro
Raids and M+ for me. I cant for the life of me get into higher keys above 10. /sad face
subtle gyro
u read that right.
balmy condor
That sounds not very fun
limber lion
I'm sure you can get up there, just need a little bit of ilvl.
subtle gyro
i dont feel that im bad, i know mechs, but because of the low lvl keys...i guess my score is bad?? i think its stupid
red plaza
For my alts it’s usually finish all 5s, then 7-9s, then 10s, then 11-14s
limber lion
For my alts it’s usually finish all 5s, then 7-9s, then 10s, then 11-14s
I personally just do 14-15's only on my alts
subtle gyro
we cant all be badass @limber lion LOL
limber lion
Hah, nah :p
But honestly just get your ilvl up and push your own key!
It's not too bad.
Once you've done a 15+ for a weekly, you'll get a new 15 key for the next week
So you only have to do the push from the ground up once.
subtle gyro
gonna keep trying though!
dense cedar
@balmy condor
balmy condor
jolly comet
Is theres concise information of which lieutenant gives which abilities for rogues in Season 2?
dense cedar
I've been told Assassination is playable now
jolly comet
yea i saw ryfie doing some nice dps last night. not sure what ability he had
balmy condor
Is theres concise information of which lieutenant gives which abilities for rogu...
It’s random from week to week what we know
scenic meteor
guys is there any aoe dummys in seat of primus? i switched to necro and i cant find any
teal bloom
Necrolord dummies are so bad compared to night fae
oak sky
didnt they have different designers for different sanctums
and thats why some have different flight point quality and structure and stuff
scenic meteor
yeah night fae flight point is so good
oak sky
necro sucks
scenic meteor
so where can i access aoe dummys?
scenic meteor
i miss sinfall lol but i like sbs
oak sky
flag is alright but im gonna swap necro soon i guess
dense cedar
idk if i cbf with necro
subtle gyro
which soulbind for necro would u guys say? i know nothing about necro currently
oak sky
its heirmir
oak sky
but i think emeni is also an option?
teal bloom
I think assa uses heirmir for everything
limber lion
which soulbind for necro would u guys say? i know nothing about necro currently
We default to Heirmir for pretty much all content. Raids, M+ and so on
Some people use Emeni to cheese parses on Council, but that's about it.
scenic meteor
Sadge
subtle gyro
Emeni looks strong for M+ imo
stoic needle
It's good when you have multiple melee dps but otherwise heirmir is better
sonic schooner
Emeni last bind fear thing is fine for pvp tho 🤓
limber lion
The range on LBE is not that large
subtle gyro
haha, i missed that
tulip nacelle
so where can i access aoe dummys?
zuldazar
slim jolt
Whats the go-to potency conduit for necro?
wintry spade
PIN: Conduits:
Single Target: Lashing Scars > Sudden Fractures >= Well-Placed Steel > Lethal Poisons > Maim, Mangle
slim jolt
PIN: Conduits:
Single Target: Lashing Scars > Sudden Fractures >= Well-Placed St...
Thank you , must have scrolled past, my bad
wintry spade
all good friend
hoary fulcrum
Switching to Ven for sin rogue. Will i be disappointed in 9.1?
amber mountain
Me too!
Ven and Necro are both going to be strong in 9.1, barring anything drastic
hoary fulcrum
Now that flag is re-worked i wanna go back
amber mountain
pick the one that's fun to play 🙂
hoary fulcrum
as long as im within 3-5% ill go ven
amber mountain
Yeah, flag is much improved
and situationally Ven is better then Necro (but I'm enjoying Necro)
hoary fulcrum
I dont min-max too much, but if it's more than 5% i hav eto make the better choice
amber mountain
You're good with either 🙂
amber mountain
I've got my warrior there so I can fill that need
And all of the leather transmogs suck in SL, so I'm sticking with my Uncrowned set
hoary fulcrum
but the venthyr flying mount is nutty haha
wispy marsh
Just got to M Sludge and looking to swap to Sin for this fight. What's our CD rotation look like for pillars? I'll head into HC and kill him a couple times before this weekend but looking for any help y'all can give 🙂
safe barn
Just got to M Sludge and looking to swap to Sin for this fight. What's our CD ro...
0-2-4 pillars
Use it on the beginning
wispy marsh
kk, what about trinkets? Haven't had much luck so most my trinks from H, Dreadfire/Phial going to be best here I assume?
Also, thank you!
wispy marsh
You think it'll be better than 220 Phial? I have every trink from H so I'd assume if I was going to maybe a 213 Sins?
hoary fulcrum
Sim told me Quantum (220) and a 213 Hateful chains simmed best. But I also have a 220 dreadfire and stoneherald. any way the sim could be wrong? I feel like quantum and Dread fire is the way to go
wispy marsh
Hateful chain is very good
Granted I'm an outlaw main, but I've ran it for a while now. Sims solidly enough for me.
balmy condor
Sim told me Quantum (220) and a 213 Hateful chains simmed best. But I also have ...
depending on your haste, it's common to have chain go higher
limber lion
You think it'll be better than 220 Phial? I have every trink from H so I'd assum...
I think that 220 Phial is the best trinket at that ilvl.
I mean, my 226 hateful chain only barely tops it in single target.
213 has no chance.
hoary fulcrum
depending on your haste, it's common to have chain go higher
Basically just listen to the sims XD
balmy condor
ye
limber lion
Sim told me Quantum (220) and a 213 Hateful chains simmed best. But I also have ...
Double on use is awful.
Do not run double on use, especially if the sim is already recommending something else.
balmy condor
Double on use is awful.
hard disagree
soft shale
for sludge double on use is really fine
harsh anchor
I’ve had good luck with double on use
limber lion
Sludge is the only fight where I would use double on use
wispy marsh
I think that 220 Phial is the best trinket at that ilvl.
Just realized I haven't been using Dreadfire for a bit as I've been running Skulkers. 226 Skulkers..... and then 220 phial or 220 Dreadfire you think?
limber lion
And if I'm cheesing parses
Normal gameplay I would never use double on use if they sim similarly
balmy condor
Just realized I haven't been using Dreadfire for a bit as I've been running Skul...
the dreadfire is better than the skulk usually
limber lion
Unless double on use is like 20+ dps more, I'm picking the passive choice.
hoary fulcrum
What's the logic behind hatign double on use?
sonic schooner
double on use 😒
limber lion
What's the logic behind hatign double on use?
You have to remember to press the trinkets during the fight.
hoary fulcrum
Just not being able to line them up with everything?
limber lion
No
balmy condor
What's the logic behind hatign double on use?
people don't like the playstyle and the cooldowns don't stack
limber lion
It's just that you need to remember to press it
balmy condor
if the cd's were to line up
hoary fulcrum
I press it one use every time lol
stoic needle
Sim told me Quantum (220) and a 213 Hateful chains simmed best. But I also have ...
Sim doesn't take the damage amp into account. Double on use is best
balmy condor
we would never not use double on use
fleet whale
plus double one use could mean an extra keybind
hoary fulcrum
or just one on use
limber lion
I don't mind the extra keybind
limber lion
And I do enjoy double on use on 2-3 min kills
stoic needle
And you press it once on pull
stoic needle
And again 20 seconds later
limber lion
it's a hard pass for me.
stoic needle
How is that hard lol
If you have a trinket CD weakaura that tracks the CDs of both it couldn't be easier
fleet whale
most of my favorite trinkets generally have not been on use though
fleet whale
idk i just have found most on use trinkets in the history of wow
limber lion
Why would you ever choose double on-use if they sim similarly?
fleet whale
to be quite boring
limber lion
Like double on use can be great if the fight length is perfect
or dog
if the fight ends just before you get an extra use out of it
fleet whale
coral/font worked pretty well together
fleet whale
i actually didn't mind it
stoic needle
I just take issue with the idea that double on use is somehow giga brain incredibly hard to use when it's not
limber lion
Font was a long channel and coral was a trinket that you had to press twice every time for it to work
It is not
Not sure who said that
stoic needle
Of course I'm exaggerating a bit but that's the perception that it has
fleet whale
i don't think people think double on use as hard so much as it can be a little janky sometimes
limber lion
I mean because we don't have to sync trinkets with anything, it doesn't matter when you press them
It's just much easier to play with one active trinket than two.
And more consistent.
And on top of that usually sims better anyways
hoary fulcrum
Thats a good point about a fight ending before you can reuse your trinket.
The passives will pull ahead there
limber lion
On-demand damage is always a great thing honestly
wispy marsh
How do I sim for Sludge? Lol I feel like it doesn't take the damage amp into account
limber lion
Like DFV is an amazing trinket
limber lion
How do I sim for Sludge? Lol I feel like it doesn't take the damage amp into acc...
It doesn't, you'd have to use advanced sim for stuff like that.
But you can't really sim for Sludge
wispy marsh
I was told to sim myself by you when asking about trinkets for Sludge lol
limber lion
I would recommend just running EP/Vig with double on-use trinkets
stoic needle
Even if you did make a perfect sludge sim you wouldn't get any different results from a patchwerk sim tbh
limber lion
Well you gotta specify my boy
stoic needle
Besides maybe ep/vigor and on use
dull cloak
double on use would be the go to if phial wasnt so good
limber lion
If the question is "what are the best trinkets for sludge?"