):
#assassination
hollow river
shrewd current
yea im aware, sorry the male vs female thing is just cuz I dont like male orc or female belf lol
hollow river
wut really
shrewd current
not for rogues at least
hollow river
i can see how male orc would get a little stale pretty fast
but female on either is cool
female orc looks more like human or male belf stature
shrewd current
orc does have the far superior racials, dont they
compact pumice
Yes Far, Tenacity for sure
whole bluff
The male orc physique just doesn't really makes sense for a rogue. Too big and muscular
hollow river
how is it far?
shrewd current
The male orc physique just doesn't really makes sense for a rogue. Too big and m...
yea thats what im thinking as well
hollow river
.5% is far? o.O
neat pulsar
orc pve racials loses in strenght the more we get stats
compact pumice
Tenacity? 20% stun Dr is insane
shrewd current
could go panda 
hollow river
oh we talking pvp now
compact pumice
Who cares about looking at some more muscles or a bit more green dude
just pick for the racials IMO
shrewd current
Who cares about looking at some more muscles or a bit more green dude
"waaaagh"
wait thats warhammer orcs, nevermind
hollow river
"kekw"
compact pumice
Otherwise why not go all the way then? Get with the real Vulpera fantasy
shrewd current
orc also makes sense because Necrolord
shrewd current
Otherwise why not go all the way then? Get with the real *Vulpera fantasy*
there's a reason Vulpera is a Horde race and not Alliance. Goldshire would implode.
sonic schooner
whole bluff
How come I've never heard of horde equivalent of goldshire?
hollow river
because we are the actual gamers
compact pumice
I guess you need to hangout at r34vulpera
hollow river
no
shrewd current
it is done.
shrewd current
the 20% stun reduction is, yes
whole bluff
No, orcs have an actual ability that increases their attack power
shrewd current
is it the same kind of ability similar to how red cars go faster?
sonic schooner
Real rogue players are undead, right? 
whole bluff
Only if you play classic xd
shrewd current
aah right I forgot about classic existing
sonic schooner
Shadowland classic when? Can't wait for another full year of the same patch
shrewd current
ok yep female orc is amazing. animations are so good.
hollow river
o:
gusty mirage
Shadowland classic when? Can't wait for another full year of the same patch
this is just 8.3 classic at this point
whole bluff
I switched from orc to belf this week, became a normie
hollow river
i like the belf animations
cobalt pelican
realistically if you're playing horde you're forced to pick between a bunch of shit so
shrewd current
same, but ive had many many belfs over the years, and rarely any orcs, so its a nice switch up tbh
cobalt pelican
just pick the least bad looking garbage and coveri t up
hollow river
just make 5 rogues lmao
whole bluff
Alliance scum talking here
My first rogue was undead, then I switched to orc, and now belf
Don't really play anything else
shrewd current
I had a belf rogue in Legion, Vulpera rogue in BFA/SL, and now Orc
hollow river
Shadowland classic when? Can't wait for another full year of the same patch
i honestly can't wait for wotlk/ MoP / Legion
shrewd current
WotLK classic is going to be insane
hollow river
i quit after wotlk so i never played legion
whole bluff
Do you think they will milk classic to the point of legion?
hollow river
everyone says those are the best 3
yes
they should've made window servers to stay in old expansions all along
shrewd current
Do you think they will milk classic to the point of legion?
honestly wouldnt put it past them
hollow river
and let you copy your characters before going into next expansion
whole bluff
For a small fee of course xd
hollow river
by the time classic Legion comes around, we will be in like 11.0 or maybe even 12.0
shrewd current
Classic will one day catch up to retail and they'll just be the same expansion
hollow river
but if you could go back and start the game with a new toon and go into any expansion you choose would be so dope. there would have to be way less servers to accommodate way less players though ofc.
silent tinsel
3rd divisible ooze, and im done with farming plaguefall this season 
Mythic + sucks
whole bluff
A new expansion where classic people can meet up with retail like alternative universe or something
gloomy knoll
final sky
whats my stat priority for m+?
whole bluff
Crit>Mastery
shrewd current
What would be the best ability to macro Blood Fury into? probably Vendetta right?
whole bluff
Blood fury is 2m also right?
whole bluff
It is, so I guess yeah macro it into Ven
shrewd current
does Vendetta still generate the 60 energy over 3 seconds if the target dies 1 second after applying it?
whole bluff
also what lego do i want?
MA is a good overall, for more info you can check pinned messages
final sky
is ma mark of the master assassin>
whole bluff
Yeah
whole bluff
No idea, I am mostly outlaw xd. So check the tooltip
final sky
alright
hollow river
is ma mark of the master assassin>
the talent or legendary?
compact pumice
Talent is only called Master Assassin, the legendary is Mark of the Master Assassin
hollow river
oo
well he was asking what ma was so i guess could've been either
nvm he said something about leggo earlier :>
tender hare
Hi there Im brand new to assassination, coming from outlaw looking for a change. Ive read tge pinned comments but any tios would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
odd hazel
Hi there Im brand new to assassination, coming from outlaw looking for a change....
any thing you'd like to know specifically?
Personally i'd stay necro if you are already necro. Venth has its places though and is viable if you want ot play it.
tender hare
I swapped to venth from necro bor both bis and aesthetic reasons haha. I mained outlaw but wanted to be of more use to my guild in the raid so im switching it up
Doomblade hands legendary and poison bomb>crimson tempest right?
Im returning player since two weeks ago and still havent crafted a legendary but i bought the shoulders from AH for outlaw but held off after deciding to go assas
Def confused about the rotation. Its a massive paragraph and hard to process
I use hekili atm
odd hazel
Doom blade can be used on either peice but, Hands is prefered.
Poison bomb for ST, anything more then ST is Crimson.
Rotation :
Opener: Mut - Slice and dice - Mut - Garrote - Flag - rupt - vend - shiv - vanish
Rotation is basically, Mut for CP, Keep up Garrote, Rupture, Use Shiv on CD basically, Try to use CDs wisely as much as possible especially on fights like sludge/etc ( can depend on fight length ), dump with envenom ( try to make sure to finish at -1 max CP so, 4 if vigor, 5 if DS )
odd hazel
if you're playing Blindside
( and in general so you dont use ambush if you dont use that talent )
only use ambush with procs
theres a bunch of other minor things you can do as well during some fights to up your damage, but that is the general rotation.
we are more then happy to answer any questions you have though
@limber lion is basically the discord log reader. and whispyr is the person who pretty much answers the same question 50x a day but gladly does it lmao
tender hare
Thats another point of confusion so far is when to use cd's for best effect and also not everything is ST so is it true that you have to garrote every individual mob in a pack?
balmy condor
<@!165215952479322112> is basically the discord log reader. and whispyr is the ...
I read logs too 
odd hazel
you do enough for us whispyr lmao
balmy condor
Been watching Marcelian assas vid with Whyspir/mystler
If only they spelled my name properly
gusty mirage
Wipsyrh
odd hazel
Thats another point of confusion so far is when to use cd's for best effect and ...
well, in M+. when using Subterfuge. You want to open with 4 garrotes. SnD ( I want to say this is correct but prob not, Fan of knives and apply CT. then just rupter enemies, not certain off the top of my head the amount of enemies certain thigns win over. i believe its like 3+ enemies ( or 4 ) that FoK wins over Mut )
you want to just keep as many garrotes rolling as possible.
but also maintaining other dots and keeping uptime on Slice and dice
with Envenoms
tender hare
Yea seems tough to keep track of all the status effects. Are you just trying to keep them applied or are you waiting for them to run out so you can do (x)?
odd hazel
there ya go
balmy condor
Yea seems tough to keep track of all the status effects. Are you just trying to ...
keeping them applied during pandemic is fine
tender hare
Pandemic?
balmy condor
!pd
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
tender hare
Are you usually using things on cd or would you hold some abilities cd to synergize with something else?
balmy condor
all the cooldowns are on cooldown
tender hare
I dont see pamdemic ability anywhere
balmy condor
but we do pool into shiv
pandemic is a game mechanic
on dots and stuff
it's not sin specific
odd hazel
its just something that applies to bleeds/etc if you reapply before the dot falls off
tender hare
Dude wtf i never heard of pandemic :(
balmy condor
yeah it's not explained anywhere
it's just something you notice after a while
or you go to here
or a guide explains it
tender hare
I wish the game explained how the game works..
balmy condor
word of mouth kinda thing
to be fiar, there's not a lot of things that aren't explained
tender hare
So you can apply debuffs to one target then fok and it goes to surrounding enemies? All debuffs applied?
But ot doesnt transfer garrote it looks like right?
*the bleeds garrote inflicts
fathom swift
fok doesnt transfer debuffs it just applies poisons
tender hare
Gotcha. Also when am i using the two finishers env/rup?
Just on cd?
*max combo points i mean
gusty mirage
in aoe you only envenom to keep up slice and dice
you rupture everything and keep up crimson tempest
fathom swift
open spellbook, read passives
nimble tartan
remember benthic gear
gusty mirage
they brought back a passive that envenom extends slice and dice by up to 3secs per combo point spent
tender hare
it only applies poisons
And thanks for being on this great video, ive watched it about 3 times over the past 2 days to try to get the hang of the spec :)
tender hare
open spellbook, read passives
I read honest!
I see it, its just a lot to keep track of for some casul whos new to poisons
tender hare
More stupid noob questions😅
balmy condor
And thanks for being on this great video, ive watched it about 3 times over the ...
it was honestly tons of fun
I wish we did more tbh
tender hare
So why open with mut instead of garrote?
Just cp build and no need to apply before cp build?
tender hare
I wish we did more tbh
I learned a lot but def feel like im a bit out of my depth with the complexity of the status maintenance
vapid nimbus
I'll jump in with question here 😅 On AOE, do we use shiv on cool down or only before we use Env to refresh SnD, if so, do we cast multiple Env during that shiv window or just once for SnD purposes?
tender hare
Also about poisons, deadly poison and which other poidon is best? Crippling?
gusty mirage
I'll jump in with question here 😅 On AOE, do we use shiv on cool down or only b...
on cd
balmy condor
Also about poisons, deadly poison and which other poidon is best? Crippling?
usually numbing is the go to
quasi owl
I've got my eyes on you big kahuna
This is going to hunt me for the rest of my life 😄
gusty mirage
So why open with mut instead of garrote?
you only open with garrote if you're playing subterfuge
balmy condor
This is going to hunt me for the rest of my life 😄
next time? ;)
tender hare
This is going to hunt me for the rest of my life 😄
Hey been watching your vids like crazy lately for advice for a returning player needs. They helped a lot🔥
quasi owl
🙏
balmy condor
We do another sin vid? 😄
whenever you want to man, I'm always available if you need me for something
vapid nimbus
on cd
Do you use multiple Envenoms in that Shiv window? I feel like I neglect Rupture and CT if I do more than one in multitarget.
balmy condor
Do you use multiple Envenoms in that Shiv window? I feel like I neglect Rupture ...
if you're in aoe you just use the shiv and then continue as normla
so if you're gonna CT, you still CT
shiv isn't actually blocking you from using dots in aoe
the dots will still do more
tender hare
Shiv window??
vapid nimbus
Got it, I was strictly only using shiv before Envenoms 😳
balmy condor
it's nature damage only
tender hare
Ohh gotcha i see
silent tinsel
CT with DS, need more energy
tender hare
Wouldnt you use envenom after shiv?
gusty mirage
Got it, I was strictly only using shiv before Envenoms 😳
if you wanna know what the sim does, it gives zero fucks it just sends that shit on CD
balmy condor
Got it, I was strictly only using shiv before Envenoms 😳
yeah just slam it on cooldown
gusty mirage
we saw it shiv a mob in dslice that was about to die before the next pull
it legit gave zero fucks
vapid nimbus
Thanks! I was wondering why raidbots was doing that xD
tender hare
So vendetta seems to be the biggest cd, so you want to pop that after all your debuffs are applied?
Is there a best time to use vendetta or is it situational? Just pop on cd?
odd hazel
First pulls on huntsman mythic, any tips ?
gusty mirage
with your guild? alt + f4 
gusty mirage
ask @balmy condor he smoked me on huntsman
gusty mirage
straight slanging his epeen hard
odd hazel
i'd rather unsub then try this with my raid team
odd hazel
gotta get that 233 weap
balmy condor
I mean I'm in it for the CE
but yeah, getting 233's before @limber lion would be fucking hilarious
gusty mirage
but yeah, getting 233's before <@!165215952479322112> would be fucking hilarious
just don't forget about us little people when you're a famous WF raider @balmy condor
gusty mirage
want me to talk to them about this?
gusty mirage
I can personally certify that you are indeed a pumper
tender hare
Thanks for the tips guys i appreciate it
balmy condor
I'm ready for my first kill green parse
odd hazel
i'll be honest
10/10 already prefer this huntsman fight then heroic
first time really stepping into mythic and BOY.
but i cant imagine what i'll be like on my like 300th wipe
on any of these bosses
:^)
gusty mirage
10/10 already prefer this huntsman fight then heroic
hope you got some mages and hunters for soaks
odd hazel
uhh, 2 hunters? i think one mage?
gusty mirage
balmy condor
@odd hazel you got paladins?
odd hazel
2 of em
upper abyss
Is Assassination still going Venthyr for Sanctum of Domination or has Necro become on par or better for raid?
It's my first time playing a Rouge after coming from Warrior.
balmy condor
usually necro
venthyr will be a little higher single target
probably not worth it though
the moment you get anything more than raw single target, that like 1% difference is just overshadowed
upper abyss
Thanks heaps!
That's exactly what I was hoping to hear so I could play Necro Outlaw for M+ 
upper abyss
Assa is still gonna be well ahead for ST as it stands right now right?
upper abyss
Cool, thanks again!
balmy condor
its not a bad spec or anything
upper abyss
I've only played Outlaw so far and it's been really fun. I know literally nothing about Assa yet so I am gonna go try it now.
upper abyss
Is there another place I can find info on 9.1?
Like if the leggo has changed or anything?
balmy condor
would be the pins
if we were able to get new info
but we can't
cause blizzard succ
deathspike is looking good
the domination sockets might fuck some stuff over
upper abyss
lmao fair enough. i'll keep an eye on the pins and what people are saying here.
balmy condor
but we don't really know anything for sure
fathom swift
why do you say you cant get new info?
balmy condor
why do you say you cant get new info?
it's not implemented in simc, cause it's not implemented in game, and when it is implemented, it's buggy and janky and then changes a week later
fathom swift
which one, necro?
fathom swift
im sure theres some version of them in simc cause i remember testing
soft shale
you can brute force them if you compile from source but idk how to do it on raidbots
fathom swift
ptr=1
balmy condor
which one, necro?
I don't particularly care about the soulbinds, it's the gems that matter because that's what will fuck up legendaries
also just because there's some version
doesn't mean it's correct
balmy condor
there's no point simming ptr atm outside of the sub changes
soft shale
although lets hope the 3 leggo thing becomes a thing for most legendaries
balmy condor
the legendaries for rogues are also in, could do that
but system/soulbind wise
it's just a massive waste of time
fathom swift
i mean if you're curious how they're implemented it can be worth
soft shale
yea interestingly enough we still have many changes to see
kind of ugh now that patch is stretching but what can we do
odd hazel
no point in testing something that has a 90% chance to change
odd hazel
sad because i wish sepsis was interesting
soft shale
haha it was kind of good on beta but they went for the safe change
otherwise outlaw would be stonking with it right now and even assa would think about playing something like deathly or MA one day
soft shale
oof yea the kyrian one is also
spicy
like play this mini game for almost no gain anyway kek
fathom swift
no point in testing something that has a 90% chance to change
the point is to give feedback that can inform better changes
soft shale
ah how we wish that mattered
fathom swift
i mean it does
soft shale
yea that is true feedback is given
balmy condor
yeah
it matters 5 months later
maybe 6
when they fix a bug known in alpha
during the x.1 patch
shrewd current
x.1 with a 5-6 month timeframe is ambitious
balmy condor
true
fathom swift
sure, sometimes bugs take agea to get fixed, but I got 3 fixed for ret this week on the ptr with a post so
it can happen
fathom swift
you just gotta actually yell it
at them
no the point is you gotta make it really heard
balmy condor
yeah? and how would we do that
15-20 bug reports a day aren't doing it
do we gotta be forum warriors or what
fathom swift
i made a post on wowhead, could ask mystler to do the same if they're big bugs
odd hazel
i mean, its blizzes job to find bugs, and if we constantly complain about them
( which our CF peopel do and more )
you think they'd fix even a simple bug like the pot cheese
fathom swift
sure, but if you want them fixed why would you not try to make it as easy as possible for them to know
balmy condor
I mean even just sbs critting
balmy condor
sure, but if you want them fixed why would you not try to make it as easy as pos...
bro we spam bug reports
stoic needle
do we gotta be forum warriors or what
yes
soft shale
or getting affected by assa mastery or shadowblades the mastery one took a while
and the shadowblades we spam like no tomorrow
stoic needle
why doesnt mystler make a monthly rogue bug post on wowhead
balmy condor
there's so much nonsense that should've gotten fixed in beta
and people report
all the time
soft shale
cloaked in shadows not working with vanish
fathom swift
yeah i spammed bug reports for the ret stuff since beta too and theyre only now getting fixed, i know what its like but
you gotta make it very very well known
shrewd current
Sounds to me like they just listen to bug reports on forums that gain traction, rather than using the actual bug reporting system they've purposely built for it
balmy condor
yeah
maybe instead of using the ya know
systems to report things
that blizzard built
and encourages using
maybe the play
is to not do that
and go through third party stuff and fill that up with "pls dada blizz fix the stuff we've been saying"
what a great time
fathom swift
i mean
soft shale
haha yea well logging in each day on ptr and slapping 3 or 4 bug reports by some people does not seem to work
soft shale
it means they underwork their system or not use it well
balmy condor
if you have to take a shit, but have to ask to use your neighbors bathroom every time you do
you still take a shit
so whats the problem
fathom swift
i mean its just the world we live in
soft shale
they have their systems like whysp said but do not seem to use it well
fathom swift
you cant change blizzards qa system
balmy condor
and the fact that I can't change it magically makes it not a problem?
fathom swift
no, but it means if you want bugs fixed then circumventing it is a better option than just complaining about it
fathom swift
yeah, but they dont so
soft shale
i mean i think someones does read the reports just corporate bullshittery makes the pipe too long
and then they get lost in between sadly
fathom swift
its probably theres partly a backlog but
i would guess theres also a lot that get dismissed as not being real bugs if the person reading doesnt understand what the issue is
balmy condor
let's make a post on reddit asking blizzard to check their dm's, and then post the reddit post on wowhead, and then repost the wowhead link in the wow discord
fathom swift
idk why ur memeing this hard when like
loads of specs get large bugs fixed like this
lots of ww bugs, the mw/enh auto resets
balmy condor
i mean that sounds like a beast idea
we should app to ion's guild
and then during raid just slip in a complaint about a bug
stoic needle
Let's send ion's character in-game mail
balmy condor
stoic needle
granite thistle
Mr Whispyr
balmy condor
"hey chief when is fae lego getting reworked, just asking"
fathom swift
bro
balmy condor
Mr Whispyr
what's goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood homie
fathom swift
you dont even need to do anything dumb like that
granite thistle
You mentioned yesterday a bug with the Bonespike not critting or something along the lines of that, what was that bug exaclty?
granite thistle
Oh.
balmy condor
yeah it's very 5 head
granite thistle
Why wouldn't they just hotfix that
balmy condor
cause it's blizzard and they need patch content
spice spire
Spaghetti code
balmy condor
that bug has been there since sbs was first implemented during alpha
granite thistle
I can't wait to for blizzard to look like the heroes, fixing broken stuff
balmy condor
they eventually fixed it during beta
and then they broke it like 3 weeks before release again
and it's still broken
balmy condor
god no
granite thistle
Good
balmy condor
it's 0 dps on single target
soft shale
no st gain on that one
granite thistle
Poogers
stoic needle
Make deathspike's spikes all hit a single target if there's no extra 
granite thistle
Still DB then with Zold's for big execute?
soft shale
that would be kind of wao
unless they unfuck dom sockets we still do not know
or make leggos 3 slots
only a few of them got a third slot right now
granite thistle
I see
balmy condor
Still DB then with Zold's for big execute?
maybe dashing depending on sockets
we don't know
stoic needle
Blunderbuss 
granite thistle
wtf is dashing. #NewRogueMain
granite thistle
Thank god for Soul Ash ketchup
balmy condor
better than soul ash mayonaise tbh
stoic needle
I prefer soul ash mayo myself
stoic needle
better than soul ash mayonaise tbh
stoic needle
I hate ketchup actually
Who hurt you
granite thistle
My mom said im fat cause she ate spoonfuls of mayo when she was pregnant with me
stoic needle
balmy condor
mayo fucking sucks
spice spire
<:gunpepe:642022104350457856>
Mayo is fucking disgusting and ur a degenerate for immediately going there
spice spire
mayo fucking sucks
King
stoic needle
You're entitled to your wrong opinions
balmy condor
as are you king
stoic needle
They serve totally different purposes?
odd hazel
nah
stoic needle
Yes
odd hazel
mayo just belongs on the bottom
stoic needle
granite thistle
I'd gargle some ranch on a burgy
stoic needle
You people need help
odd hazel
ranch is bad too
stoic needle
Wow
spice spire
ranch and ketchup on a hot dog
That’s cursed
stoic needle
Incredibly cursed
granite thistle
I need to go bed
balmy condor
osh not inviting me to his cookout man wth sadge
stoic needle
Yep
You don't get to experience the delight of a black family cookout
Because you don't like Mayo and you'd desecrate a hot dog with ranch
granite thistle
You guys seen that tiktok of the dude dumping a hotdog in ketchup buckets, and mustard
odd hazel
if thats a black family cook out, i dont want what they are making.
stoic needle
My relatives would look at me weird
balmy condor
I can bring horse radish tho
odd hazel
fucking
balmy condor
y'all like horse radish
odd hazel
horse radish
stoic needle
Horse radish is lit
odd hazel
your tastebuds need checked
stoic needle
All condiments are good except relish
spice spire
Horseradish is prett good ngl
stoic needle
Fuck relish
odd hazel
Blue cheese is best
stoic needle
Relish is an abomination
spice spire
Fuck Mayo that’s my thing
stoic needle
spice spire
Mastery sucks
odd hazel
^
spice spire
Deece
stoic needle
I hope they fuck the sockets so we have to go dashing just so I can play something different
Kinda
stoic needle
No I don't
granite thistle
Unfortunate
Real talk. Whats my opener now that Im neccylord
Same thing as venthyr without the Flag?
Use SBS when I need a combo point or an add about to pop up kinda vibe?
keen cairn
U open with SBS from stealth
apart from that, basically nothing changes
opener would look like SBS, SND when3+ CP, Muti, Garrotte, Rapture, Muti, Muti, Vendeatta, Shiv
U wanna hold ur SBS charges for Gemstone windows
in pure ST that is
otherwise u obv wanna get them out on adds
odd hazel
what nugget said, only use to open, not charge, and if a target doesnt already have a dot/ dump in gemstone windows
fallen arch
Wait what
granite thistle
What is a gemstone window
fallen arch
Also just switched to necro, so ST opener is SBS first?
balmy condor
yes
granite thistle
Oh uayayayaya
fallen arch
And then dump em in gematone procs?
balmy condor
yes
granite thistle
I forgot what gemstone was since DKs use Emeni lol
fallen arch
Which is just use on cd and forget about it
soft shale
yea extra crit feels so good
fallen arch
Also a bit confused on prio in m+ now. iirc it’s garrotex4>CT>SBSx3 and then slap ruptures on everything that lives long enough right?
With FoK builder for >4 targets and mut with less?
fallen arch
Ok thanks
bleak sun
@granite thistle only in raid, m+heimir betta for DND Windows
final sky
what slot do i want my lego in? also im assuming crit mast missives
soft shale
doomblade gloves zoldyck pants
final sky
so can i just pick whichever sounds more fun out of those 2?
final sky
alright
fallen arch
what slot do i want my lego in? also im assuming crit mast missives
No mastery
Crit/haste
final sky
kk
strange python
is dungeonslice okay for assa?
soft shale
yes for rogue in general
clear shadow
what is assasrouge st rotation
bleak sun
Opener ?
tulip nacelle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
clear shadow
for assasa do u use ambush in opener or do u use mutilate from stealth
clear shadow
oh fuck thats crayz lol
tulip nacelle
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
limber lion
might try and get 2k rio as assa this week idk
You should just run the build that everyone runs, which is EP/Subt/Vig/Iron Wire/Alac/CT with the Zoldyck legendary
hoary night
I play necro Sin and i always open with SBS from stealth for ST, with MA talent
limber lion
As you should.
hoary night
the concept is just that you will always SnD on the second gcd, so it doesn't really matter how many CP you get from the first gcd
sacred isle
And you get the dot running faster and if running doom blade next mut will deal more dmg
limber lion
And you get the dot running faster and if running doom blade next mut will deal ...
Dots don't increase Muti damage
They increase Env damage
sacred isle
Have I read the tooltip wrong all along 😵
limber lion
Muti just applies the bleed
Mutilate applies Mutilated Flesh. Every bleed increases Envenom damage by 5%
hoary night
well if you run emini then it's an increase. But everyone is going for heirmir
sacred isle
I’ll go hide in corner again
limber lion
well if you run emini then it's an increase. But everyone is going for heirmir
As you should. Emeni is not the best for sin.
hoary night
Exactly
vast forum
have any sims been done assuming the total group value of emeni tho?
i know it's almost impossible to sim but if we assume the rest of the group somehow does the exact same dps, adding the 4x2% mainstat to yourself wouldn't be too far off the marker
obviously, heirmir is better for our personal dps but i'm just wondering if emeni could be better for prog on fights where you get good resets
fossil wraith
I play necro Sin and i always open with SBS from stealth for ST, with MA talent
do you run that in m+ instead of subterfuge?
sacred isle
i know it's almost impossible to sim but if we assume the rest of the group some...
You can sim how many ppl get effected but that will only sim your dps gain from the buff
Best way to do a raid calculation would most likely be take the avg dps of your raid. 4 ppl that are in the middle in they fight. Sim their stat weights and see how much they gain from 2% mainstat and then multiply their gain by 0.% uptime you had on lbe buff
sacred isle
In raid. Yes it will.
drowsy parcel
sure
sacred isle
But it can also effect healers and tanks aswell so if you want to do a raid calculation is probably best to only assume 3/4 is dps benefit
hoary night
do you run that in m+ instead of subterfuge?
You stick to subterfuge in m+, unless you run MA leg + nightstalker + MfD + CT
But that's a different story.
bleak sun
Quick question how do you open as necro with subt in m+ 3/4garrote then rupt /sbs adds ?
hoary night
Quick question how do you open as necro with subt in m+ 3/4garrote then rupt /sb...
It depends on how many mob per pull. For 3 I go 3x garrote, SBS, rupture. For 4, 4x garrote, rup. Anything above 4 i replace that rup with CT
bleak sun
OK nothing spécial so
hoary night
imo 4 bleeds for venom wounds would be fine
scenic meteor
Is it looking like I should switch to necro for 9.1? I mostly raid and do some m+
I also have doom blade 225 and zoldyck 225 so I’m nearly set
odd hazel
Is it looking like I should switch to necro for 9.1? I mostly raid and do some m...
The raid does seem to favor necro, venth still wins ST it seems. As for the legendaries these are fine, we are getting a new necro legendary that is like 2% better then zold.
And who knows, we might be forced to go dashing as well over doom
scenic meteor
Hmm I think I’ll level up necro before 9.1 and save soul ash for any new legendary
The problem with all these legendaries for me is not being able to afford the base pieces lol
indigo mulch
Dont think there is any good execute fight in sanctum though
Ive already hopped on the necrohype train for 9.1
odd hazel
Haven’t really looked at any. There’s a lot of things still up in the air sadly though
indigo mulch
I mean ayleast with dks not being op anymore we might actually see some rogues.
odd hazel
Dks were never OP. Blizz just made 90% of nathria spell damage
So you just stacked DKs for AMZ
It doesn’t help that unholy was really good on top of that though
scenic meteor
And who knows, we might be forced to go dashing as well over doom
@odd hazel
What makes you think this?
Is dashing being buffed?
odd hazel
No, domination sockets might be worth more then doom, which would make dashing the go to
scenic meteor
That's really annoying
tulip nacelle
hopefully they at least add another slot to all legendaries that have both pieces with domination sockets
scenic meteor
Forced away from doomblade because can only craft on gloves, shoulders
tulip nacelle
as of now we don't know tho
scenic meteor
I guess all I can do is keep getting soul ash and try to save money for base pieces
odd hazel
A lot of things are up in the air though because we can’t test really
We can’t even test the sockets or anything
But we have been able to raid test for like 2-3 weeks now I think
grim jay
hopefully they at least add another slot to all legendaries that have both piece...
they do
tulip nacelle
well we have seen a few
grim jay
or did I dream it? gotta find the source
civic trellis
Does anyone know the new doomblade slots?
grim jay
thing is
if they are at it that way
they should make an option to switch the legendary to a certain slot if you upgrade it onto another base item
or on the same ilvl for a certain amount of ash
stoic needle
They won't lol
civic trellis
Or to get some soul ash from outdated legos
grim jay
disenchanting them and getting back some of the ash would be cool aswell
tho you might regret it further down the road when the slot might become good again in a new tier
granite thistle
If dashing becomes bis, thats the chance of master poisoner become the goto talent?
odd hazel
If dashing becomes bis, thats the chance of master poisoner become the goto tale...
EP will most likely be the go to next patch.
granite thistle
frantically searching for what EB means
granite thistle
EP got it. Lol
grim jay
he means EP I guess
granite thistle
Cause youre a blood cuh
grim jay
I dont think we will end up changing legendary just because of the socketslots tho
else them implementing a third piece as an option for some legendaries already would make no sense at all
odd hazel
i mean
odd hazel
it depends how much the sockets are worth
if they are atleast 100~ dashing will win over doom
odd hazel
these arent regular sockets
either way---
we either have to make another doom
or dashing. so its kind of meh
grim jay
adding more pieces as options means they are aware of that issue, so they should see it through till the end and make every legendary have an off-socket option
odd hazel
this is blizz you're talking about though
so far i think the only leggo for us that has a third slot
is a outlaw leggo
that i know of
grim jay
yes
but most classes only got another slot for 1 legendary each
so it might just be for testing, tho I wouldnt know what they wanna test with that
odd hazel
heres hoping we dont get cucked
i would just be prepared to either make that third slot or dashing
:^) as well as that new YUMMY necro leggo
limber lion
I just have 11k soulash stored up so I can swap around if necessary.
Would recommend storing up some
whole bluff
Isn't soul ash will become useless in 9.1?
vagrant bison
wait, so i will have to upgrademy legendary to r4 before i can do to the new ranks of the new patch?
scenic meteor
Can I go from r3 to the new ranks in 9.1?
stoic needle
Can I go from r3 to the new ranks in 9.1?
Yes but it still takes ash
scenic meteor
Yeah the crafting pieces are the problem for me 235 is like 40k for me
stoic needle
so i will need to buy the crafting piece...
Just do a boost or something
vagrant bison
on my server it was something like 80k
stoic needle
That's literally one 15 boost
Gold is so easy to make in retail it's not even funny
vagrant bison
well man, idk. I am not that good. Barely 1400 io 
got outdpsd today by a dk
twice
in a 17
stoic needle
50 more io and you can boost in several communities
vagrant bison
oh btw, how do you dps the gauntlet in sd?
cause its a living hell
mobs that die fast: check
no restealth: check
stoic needle
Just bleed everything you can and pump envenoms into kaal to phase her asap
fallen arch
Make sure bleeds never run out on Kaal and cleave bigs adds
stoic needle
Cloak on the caster mobs
fallen arch
Utilize the cannister properly
stoic needle
Ye
vagrant bison
i try to use sbs of the gargons but still can't reach the others as dps levels
fallen arch
It’s not the best for us, that’s a fact
stoic needle
Sin will never do big damage in the gauntlet because the mobs are too low HP
And no restealth
SD is just a terrible dungeon overall
fallen arch
Agree
vagrant bison
yeah, we run it today as a triple melee comp 
fallen arch
Awful 😩
stoic needle
vagrant bison
the storming in the gauntlet was just 
yeah we had
btw, do you use ks on the summon weapon cast?
or its just a waste
sour wraith
I mean, if the owner mob dies shortly after its definitely a waste since the weapons despawn, but if they will live for a while and are causing trouble it could be worth, esp if you're using internal bleeding
But its probably better to just use it on the main mob when they're summoning the weapon if you're going to ks
sour wraith
Err i misread that, yea it'll help
Yea I was just saying that for the sake of if you have it
stoic needle
Not a bad thing to kidney if it's gonna live a while
vagrant bison
yeah, i mean on the double pull at the start
sour wraith
Or if you're using the ns+ma+mfd build
stoic needle
But if it's one envenom from dying after the kidney
vagrant bison
i can blind one and ks another one i guess
stoic needle
Ive never bothered cc'ing those tbh
I only have trouble with the caster pack and kaal herself in the gauntlet
sour wraith
Yea the weapons arent super impactful
fallen arch
I usuay ks em just to be sure
Or we use a knockback/db
Just coordinate with group
If possible
vagrant bison
when i play on my prot warr i usually deal with them myself with fear / shockwave but in pugs no one really seems to know that its a dangerous cast
cause: can't interrupt, not my problem
gusty mirage
cause: can't interrupt, not my problem <:SucksMan:586205462010003456>
damn right
dim temple
Any news about 9.1 neco vs Ventyr? i been away for the lat 14 days
dim temple
I was just wonding if i go neco now and get reown level 40 before the patch so i not like need to level neco at day one
soft shale
we will still get 3 or 4 renown per week for a while
gusty mirage
Do you plan on raiding or doing m+? Also do you plan on playing multiple specs? Do you plan on playing subtlety at all?
soft shale
the campaign ends at 62 iirc
solid mica
Whata the trick for squeezing that extra garrote in with subt again? Is it cancelstealth?
gusty mirage
Which extra garrote? A 4th one? You’ll never get a 4th empowered garrote in
dim temple
Do you plan on raiding or doing m+? Also do you plan on playing multiple specs? ...
most raid and m+ just for weeky
gusty mirage
most raid and m+ just for weeky
Then you can go either way, it won’t really matter. Just pick whichever one you like the most
dim temple
kk
soft shale
@solid mica you use 3 subter ones then the 4th normal one
garrotes in stealth do not incur cd
gusty mirage
kk
Venthyr’s still pretty good for outlaw, bis for subtlety and does the most in pure ST for assa. So if you’re not pushing m+ seriously, you’ll be alright sticking venthyr if you’re already venthyr
solid mica
Thought I saw here awhile back that sometimes the stealth---to----normal action bar swap can incur a bit of lag losing a garrote and feel it occassionaly?
plain thistle
dim temple
Venthyr’s still pretty good for outlaw, bis for subtlety and does the most in pu...
stil Ventyr .. right now my guild is a myhic sire but kinda jjust waiting for 9.1
gusty mirage
stil Ventyr .. right now my guild is a myhic sire but kinda jjust waiting for 9....
Yeah necro’s insane for sire, but imo you’ll be better off making that decision to switch yourself (especially for one boss)
solid mica
I thought the cool kids all had custom mogs
gusty mirage
How bold of you to assume I’m cool
empty ravine
so is sin best single target rogue spec now?
slim sable
ofc
obtuse ruin
empty ravine
when did sin start being best st
odd hazel
i mean
gusty mirage
A bunch of aura buffs and then legendary tweaks and QoL changes in9.0.5
So like
3 months ago?
quaint carbon
shoud i get a bit more versa over haste for m+ ? (6% 240)
quaint carbon
aight, i'll keep them in bank if i ever play outlaw
stoic needle
shoud i get a bit more versa over haste for m+ ? (6% 240)
Versatility is good because it helps you not die
Since not dying is the most important thing for timing a key I would recommend getting more of it
gritty flame
shoud i get a bit more versa over haste for m+ ? (6% 240)
it depends on what lvl of keys you do
i guess you can go any % of versa till 18 lvl
quaint carbon
im doing 14-15 ish mostly for weekly, didnt push higher more yet
stoic needle
I definitely started feeling like my 6% vers was kinda low when I started doing 18+
I have 10% now
gritty flame
just sim yourself and go with bis items
stoic needle
Necro just likes vers more anyway
quaint carbon
yeah simed and it told me to keep the ritualist ring over the 2 versa rings i got
stoic needle
What covenant are you?
nocturne geode
does the necro spears stack by chance?
stoic needle
No
quaint carbon
i'm venthyr as I did HC progress with guildies mates (doubt i'll ever step in mythic), i might switch to necro soon to try it out
nocturne geode
kk thats what i thought so on bosses just use 1 and forget it unless playing emeni?
stoic needle
Yeah as venthyr anything crit haste will sim best
stoic needle
kk thats what i thought so on bosses just use 1 and forget it unless playing eme...
Use one as your first gcd out of stealth and the rest during the marrowed gemstones proc
nocturne geode
kk
quaint carbon
Yeah as venthyr anything crit haste will sim best
ohh okay
stoic needle
Once I swapped to necro having one vers ring started simming better
compact pumice
Crit will be a slightly better again in 9.1 with SBS affected by crit
But it's small
quaint carbon
i'll swap to necro next week, few lower dps on ST wont change my casual ass life 
grim jay
@quaint carbon I have 7.67% vers as sin doing low 20's, wouldnt care too much if I were you
solid mica
How bold of you to assume I’m cool <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
You play rogue so the floor is high
stoic needle
Of course it can all be mitigated by just playing better
But the worse you are the better vers is
quaint carbon
stoic needle
And it's nice for aoe like the pride dot and stradama rain and whatnot
grim jay
just see the fault in your mates and blame your healer/replace him
quaint carbon
i might switch the high haste/low crit ring to the high crit/high vers and that'll be gucci
hoary fulcrum
Coming back before 9.1 looking to play sin. Im night fae rn, but thinking of switching to ven or necro. Which should i choose for 9.1?
stoic needle
Necro
hoary fulcrum
Okay! Thanks!
balmy condor
legs most likely
pseudo hamlet
I'd rather wait and see what happens in 9.1. There may be some legendary tweaking.
compact pumice
There is some higher ilevel legs though, and they have domination sockets don't they?
in 9.1
balmy condor
feet have sockets too
carmine flume
Legs don't have socket
nocturne torrent
Currently venth, will it be worth swapping to necro for 9.1?
balmy condor
depends for what
nocturne torrent
Raiding, heroic into mythic (swapping from my DH)
balmy condor
probably will be worth
gusty mirage
But the worse you are the better vers is <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
that's such a pretentious statement jeez
compact pumice
ib4 Vers best stat
gusty mirage
I guess the people pushing keys pay millions for avoidance boes because dr is only valuable if you're "bad"
got it 
atomic saddle
Do we have an idea how much % +dps the dagger effect is? Assa seemed strong on ptr even without the effect, right?
balmy condor
I saw some details showing it at like 3%
fleet whale
that's decent
balmy condor
sub gets the effect too so it's not really something to stew over
fleet whale
shouldn't outlaw get it too
fleet whale
if they use off hand dagger
balmy condor
really won't matter, just free damage
fleet whale
it's just a really good rogue weapon
and i imagine it's RPPM, so like dual wielding it won't increase proc chance
atomic saddle
I often saw assa topping meters on ptr... seems like we are getting some love going into 9.1
fleet whale
well assassin is good now
and i haven't been following that much wow news lately, but i don't see any nerfs coming in 9.1
balmy condor
I often saw assa topping meters on ptr... seems like we are getting some love go...
we have gotten 0 changes
sbs got bugfixed to crit now, but that's a necro thing, not a sin thing
placid dawn
How is the gearing? are daggers relatively early on in the boss order? i am still using a 210 dagger cause we killed council only once 😦
balmy condor
the effect daggers are off sylvanas
placid dawn
any dagger is better than nothing though, might have to farm on heroic
although i killed heroic sire like 15 times and no dagger
vestal wren
you probably want 2 daggers, so you will farm normal/heroic
compact pumice
I wonder if it will be better than a 6 higher ilevel vault m+ gear
Or even the earlier dagger in mythic raid
compact pumice
Oh yeah but for mainhand too
For offhand it's quite probably better even from Normal? But who knows but offhand isn't that important yeah
quaint carbon
when do i use bonespike into the rotation (new necro)
gusty mirage
ST: You open w/ SBS
odd hazel
oxi wins again
gusty mirage
and then make sure you don't cap charges, when heimir's gemstones procs you dump your charges
or if you're playing Emeni, you use the charges to extend lead by example during vendetta
so essentially in ST the opener changes from mut -> snd to sbs -> snd
everything else stays the same
gusty mirage
you use the charges to spread ruptures after you get crimson tempest up
just to get energy rolling
lemme link you to @warped temple 's guide, it'll explain it better than I can
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W2Db7rkSIiT56b0PXQPjugZATnyx6aDOflx4oZgVwgs/edit?usp=sharing @quaint carbon
quaint carbon
ty vm 
stoic needle
I guess the people pushing keys pay millions for avoidance boes because dr is on...
I think you're taking the wrong conclusion from that statement, vers is good for everyone, and even better if you stand in shit like I do
Every time I live through a frontal and don't proc cheat I thank my vers
astral plover
Do you guys think it would be a good idea to change to Necro now to level up the renown before 9.1
vast forum
yes
best for m+
best for pvp
best for anything other than pure ST in raid (relevant fights in the raid have adds)
still not far behind in pure ST
winter vapor
CT and Zold for sire, but MA or subt?
vast forum
MA
indigo ginkgo
dont forget necro has a one more soulbyinf with execute
odd hazel
Venth is more then viable though
steep reef
hello assassination
odd hazel
Hello
gusty mirage
greetings @steep reef 
amber mountain
hi kyric
great assassins we are.. someone walks into our hideout and says "hi" and we all just perk up and wave
"Fear the daggers in the well lit room that say hello when you walk in and cheerily wave"
steep reef
if you know me crimson13 you already are dead
mutilate envenom mfd slice n dice mutilate garrote rupture dead
subtle tundra
ok so you envenom after getting 2-4 cp, then SND with 5 cp, use garrote that late and rupture even that much later
judges
nimble tartan
i dont claim him
vernal tangle
what is the best all-around covenant?
drifting cloud
necro
gloomy knoll
stinky bone gang
limber lion
gloomy knoll
vernal tangle
emeni or heirmer?
hollow river
Deathspike looking pretty clean rn on jpc's stream
mint rivet
hello
hollow river
to be clear we talk about it on outlaw
yes, but it should be pretty nice for sin too no?
mint rivet
what is the best overall covenant for 9.0.5?
hollow river
necro for overall content
vestal wren
yes, but it should be pretty nice for sin too no?
yes, but its more extreme on outlaw
and thats the point i guess
hollow river
hmm
hollow river
i guess because it flurries?
vestal wren
not because it might be decent/okay
hollow river
its a bit more hype for OL
hollow river
im wondering if we could possibly run a DS build as sin with it
tulip nacelle
I think that if they'd nerf it they would just reduce the initial damage on the secondary spikes, but who knows
harsh anchor
Venthyr or bust
hollow river
since it will be more CP gen on each pack, we can get ruptures out faster after our garrotes and CT
=more energy gen
tulip nacelle
yeah I could see ds being the play, it will be for outlaw and since sbs is so cheap vigor probably isn't as good
hollow river
=more big envenoms/CTs
vestal wren
the proble between necro/venthyr is atm
hollow river
yeah I could see ds being the play, it will be for outlaw and since sbs is so ch...
OL tends to run MFD anmyway
tulip nacelle
yeah but it won't with deathspike
hollow river
nope
vestal wren
that necro is due to spec interaction close enough to venthyr in st
that the aoe capacity just makes it the prefered choice
hollow river
?
limber lion
Necro is the best covenant for sin, not only in terms of dps, but also thematically.
Fight me.
tulip nacelle
outlaw will not run mfd with deathspike
hollow river
[:
tulip nacelle
