i play assassination, but I identify as outlaw. that kind of thing?
#assassination
drowsy coral
what have you done 
limber lion
Nothing.
slow marsh
Kek
compact pumice
what are my rogue pronouns?
Thou, thouest
balmy condor
<:whispyrwave:838675021790183425>
slow marsh
I'm jelly I wish I could have a kawaii icon
limber lion
My shift is now over, I can go sleep
compact pumice
slow marsh
I'm changing icons to something that fits my name tho
pale fossil
what have you done <:monkaW:675691826505711626>
I'm only half joking 
slow marsh
Cuz I'm tilted that I wasnt memorable in that incident earlier
pale fossil
I went into an easy key to intentionally do that and practice knowing we'd clear it np anyway
limber lion
I'm changing icons to something that fits my name tho
🧊 ⚔️
slow marsh
Yessir something like that
drowsy coral
But why do you need to practice tricks ahah
limber lion
Just to get used to it
drowsy coral
Just use it and forget about it
drowsy coral
Oh 
limber lion
It needs to become second nature where you apply it constantly without having to think about it
compact pumice
Everytime you pull aggro and have to use evasion you are reminded though
limber lion
If you don't practice intentionally using it, you'll forget about its existence
Yeah but that's 5s too late.
drowsy coral
Everytime you pull aggro and have to use evasion you are reminded though
That is, if you ever have time to use evasion
limber lion
Gotta remember to press it prior to pulling
Or during first garrotes
It's quite difficult to pull aggro as sin on your opener
drowsy coral
If he's on his mount you just chill in stealth while he gather stuff around
limber lion
Only when you start smacking one dude to the pits of hell with Vendetta, then it can get spicy
pale fossil
Update, we have a WW monk at 205 who's doing 800 dps
limber lion
Yeh
pale fossil
Wut
limber lion
Huge.
limber lion
He's a new player, give him a break
drowsy coral
alpine latch
Ohhh, in a m+ not raid, got it.
pale fossil
I know I'm not giving him a hard time it's just funny
compact pumice
TOP has 3 ways to go
slow marsh
That should do for now I guess
pale fossil
We've been standing next to Gorechop for a couple minutes
alpine latch
2 more ways to go than most dungeons
indigo mulch
Is there actually a max amount of renown you can get per week? D:
compact pumice
Yeah
alpine latch
Is there actually a max amount of renown you can get per week? D:
No, but it gets increasingly harder the closer you get to max.
compact pumice
Unless you do the anima and 20 soul quest then it's 38
since you need to cap out with them I think
or maybe I'm wrong
indigo mulch
I'm only at 28 and i've cleared almost everything in mythic, done lfr, all the quests and weeklys.
limber lion
I'm only at 28 and i've cleared almost everything in mythic, done lfr, all the q...
normal?
heroic?
indigo mulch
Yup
limber lion
world boss?
indigo mulch
Yup
alpine latch
Farm m+
compact pumice
Spam m+
indigo mulch
I've done 5 m+ and nothing ._."
compact pumice
or just m0 + heroic dungeons until full
limber lion
I don't recommend spamming content if you're not getting renown from raids.
compact pumice
yeah m+ is lower chance
limber lion
Raids have the highest drop chance that's not 100%
28 is a very common point to get stuck at, I've heard it plenty of times.
indigo mulch
So annoying to have to do re-clears without renown 31. I can just smell all the dps i'm lacking from gem 😦
pale fossil
We just told him to meet us in the middle and killed Gorechop withotu him haha
compact pumice
but doing heroic + m0 until all locks should be super quick
limber lion
So annoying to have to do re-clears without renown 31. I can just smell all the ...
I did that as well. But think about the mega gains next week
indigo mulch
Its like 200~ dps!
limber lion
but doing heroic + m0 until all locks should be super quick
It literally gets stuck for some people where they can do 1298573489576231487 dungeons and never get a single renown
It'll start rolling with the reset next week
Make sure to do raids and whatnot before doing the weekly quests.
compact pumice
Hmm really?
compact pumice
Now that I think about it I only managed 28 first week
but thought I was just unlucky
limber lion
There's people constantly here complaining about it
compact pumice
THANKS BLIZZARD
But I just went with double potency on Heirmir
Only simmed a bit worse
alpine latch
I'm not looking forward to the fucking Phial re-grind... ugh
Why's it gotta be so strong
stoic needle
I feel like emeni has gotta be better than heirmir double potency
limber lion
Heirmir is gem, Emeni is primary stat boy
compact pumice
Forgive me, my guild took a 9.1 break so I have been trying to log in but it just feels depressing that there's nothing to do than pug M+ 😦
So forget things
red plaza
Achievements/Mogs/Mounts. The true end game of WoW
drowsy coral
Pet battles 
compact pumice
I am not motivated by any of that shit
I don't really understand it tbh
I can understand grinding for something if it's really hard
but old content?
meh
limber lion
I only grinded for one mount because I wanted it
But haven't grinded for anything else.
I don't really understand mount farmers
drowsy coral
I can understand grinding for something if it's really hard
Get a team and push high M+ then
limber lion
They just grind mounts to get a higher mount number
drowsy coral
But yeah this patch is getting really boring
limber lion
They use the mount like once or twice
compact pumice
The get a team part is just annoying because my team all took breaks kinda
compact pumice
Or I messaged them all on discord asking about keys and nothing 😦
limber lion
Yeh me neither
compact pumice
Not even the Winterspring Frostsaber in classic takes 500 hours
limber lion
MOP World Boss mounts are 1/2000
compact pumice
and that one is basically just to say, look what pointless shit I got.
limber lion
And are on a weekly lockout
Imagine farming for those
I had 134 tries for Invincible
Around 20-25 minutes per run
drowsy coral
I mean people like to have everything, it's not uncommon
limber lion
That's 56 hours spread throughout 4 years
compact pumice
I can't IMAGINE the time it would take to 100% WoW, every patch, every expansion
Imagine someone speedrunning 100% WoW
pale fossil
Monk ended the dungeon doing 600 dps. Oof.
limber lion
Monk ended the dungeon doing 600 dps. Oof.
What a champ.
balmy condor
Imagine someone speedrunning 100% WoW
you realize there are people out there trying to 100% it right
pale fossil
Timed it, he did his job
DID HE THOUGH??
compact pumice
you realize there are people out there trying to 100% it right
Oh yeah, not sane people though
limber lion
I think it's really interesting and it's fun seeing their progress
I couldn't do it.
compact pumice
But is 100% getting every drop in the game etc?
or what is the actual category then?
limber lion
There's several different categories.
drowsy coral
To them you might look insane too doing 300 tries on raid bosses
pale fossil
To them you might look insane too doing 300 tries on raid bosses
To be fair to them, I feel insane doing that.
But I do it anyway.
Because I'm insane.
compact pumice
DID HE THOUGH??
I wouldn't say that but some people say that when people ask "Am I doing too low DPS for X?"
I mean, I kinda like that
I love grinding, but for things like a random drop I need to min-max
but not for cosmetics and mounts
pale fossil
I think progression and repeatedly wiping but getting a little better is honestly very fun, but that might be because I'm new to it.
Maybe the novelty wears off.
compact pumice
yeah
It is fun though, you're actually trying to improve and beat an encounter you haven't before
But getting all mounts seem way more crazy, even though it might be similar time investments
To me at least
pale fossil
Maybe a hot take, but my favorite mount grind is doing a bunch of dailies because it's more mentally engaging and immersive.
compact pumice
The calling ones or old content dailys?
pale fossil
Like the Daughter of Torcali, Worldedge Gorger, Sinrunner Blanchy, etc.
elder flint
doomblade is hands crafted correct?
compact pumice
doomblade is hands crafted correct?
Yes
compact pumice
Like the Daughter of Torcali, Worldedge Gorger, Sinrunner Blanchy, etc.
Ah, yeah well I can agree. And at least it's current gen, and pretty quick to do while using LFG tool or during the daily WQ rounds
pale fossil
I have no interest in killing the Sha of Anger on 20 different alts every week.
Even though the mount looks dope.
compact pumice
It might be a hot take but I think it's just because of Transmog and shit.
If we didn't have transmog then no point in grinding old content for looks
and you could pretty much see what gear people had just by looking
stoic needle
Imagine that 
Imagine being able to tell how good someone was at the game just at a glance
Well it doesn't take skill to get gear anymore so I guess that doesn't work but like
You know what I mean
compact pumice
I mean
I don't have the 233 gear
ANd I would look pretty stupid in my dungeon gear
Compared to the lucky people who get good loot in raids
But if I saw someone with that shoulder and head I would be jealous
drowsy coral
I would 
at warglaives back in the days
stoic needle
They're actually very good for fury
compact pumice
Yeah
stoic needle
But I don't know if we will have enough warriors to justify me playing fury
compact pumice
It will carry you through most of Sunwell
stoic needle
Who knows
limber lion
people didn't play classic wow
stoic needle
Legendary weapons scale through expansions
That would be very sick
But also probably annoying
Don't think it would be impossible to retune them every expansion but blizzard doesn't want to put that effort in
limber lion
Because it would be dumb
compact pumice
It sounds kinda shit
Never getting new weapons
and how is something legendary if everyone has em?
compact pumice
That's like the definition of Common
limber lion
It's not about effort
compact pumice
Common quality weapons
drowsy coral
Never getting new weapons
Nah like, you play around effects on legendaries, and there's leg every expansions
limber lion
It's a choice.
stoic needle
It would be hard to make it so that they aren't bis every exp
compact pumice
Very few had legendaries before
drowsy coral
It would be hard to make it so that they aren't bis every exp
Yeah that's why it stays in my imagination
compact pumice
It was legendary pretty much by definition of their rarity
drowsy parcel
speaking of legendaries
stoic needle
Except the guilds who had 10+ sulfuras and 5+ thunderfuries while my guild had 0 of both 
compact pumice
Now we craft em? Just kinda lame system
drowsy parcel
bring back kingsbane 
stoic needle
Now we craft em? Just kinda lame system
I think current legendaries should be renamed
compact pumice
I think current legendaries should be renamed
Yeah they are more closer to Artifact in that sense
limber lion
Artifact =/= Legendary
drowsy parcel
yeah you are right im mixing it up
stoic needle
Why not just call them runecrafted gear
Lmao
They aren't legendary anymore
They aren't hard to get, people have multiple
drowsy coral
i was mostly thinking of the ability
I was expecting a "doom vs zold" question
stoic needle
And bring back actual hard to obtain legendaries
drowsy coral
And bring back actual hard to obtain legendaries
I miss this so much
Instead of this runecrafting shit
compact pumice
Tbh I'd probably say having say Doomblade compared to not having it affects more than say having warglaives compared to just second bis weapons.
stoic needle
Dude when the second binding dropped for my guild, I yelled so loud my neighbors came to check on me
compact pumice
Which is pretty whack
stoic needle
You just don't have those kind of emotionally invested moments in wow anymore
compact pumice
I'd rather they made the runcrafting a buff you had and could swap out in a major city or something
drowsy coral
You just don't have those kind of emotionally invested moments in wow anymore
I've had a little (very little) bit of that in legion
Where you'd drop legendaries out of nowhere
That little adrenaline rush
compact pumice
Where you'd drop legendaries out of nowhere
This is not really good though IMO
It should be weekly raid gated tbh
stoic needle
It's just not the same as doing molten core every week for literally a year for a fucking thunder sword
drowsy coral
It's not good, but at least it's not runecrafting 
stoic needle
So that I could finally dps without pulling aggro and dying
compact pumice
It should require some politics to be the one to get granted the first piece of legendary by the guild
stoic needle
It went to our main tank who was there from day one, who ran basically the entire guild through any dungeon they needed to gear up
Cuz he deserved that shit
drowsy coral
Good times
At least legendaries meant something back then
There's no sense of rarity anymore
stoic needle
Yeah I think it's a shame that they lost that
Or if not rarity, at least some effort required to get it
compact pumice
I wish first legendary of shadowlands was Hunter bow from Sylvanas
Maybe even as a legendary set with the cloak
stoic needle
What if the sylv dagger had a quest attached that made you do a bunch of stealth missions in Torghast to actually get it
You get the hilt from sylv's corpse and do a bunch of rogue shit in Torghast to make the actual dagger
compact pumice
And then maybe a new one next tier
drowsy coral
What if the sylv dagger had a quest attached that made you do a bunch of stealth...
You had me until you said "torghast"
compact pumice
If you had to do it as 5 in torghast, like the Atiesh quest in Strathole
that would be nice
Or a 25+ man raid like Thunderfury
stoic needle
Think of the lore opportunities, you could like bind sylvanas's spirit to the dagger so you have to retrace her steps in Torghast and see how the jailer got her on her side
compact pumice
But I don't know if I think the dagger should be legendary
limber lion
Def not.
compact pumice
but I guess if there's any character that can drop two leggos it's Sylvanas.
limber lion
The concept of legendary is very different nowadays than what it was 10 years ago.
Legion was the reason legendaries became so "bland"
compact pumice
Yeah, I wonder if the Sylvanas bow will be cool
stoic needle
They did the same thing to rare mobs too tbh
compact pumice
But it'll probably drop even in LFR and everyone would have the heroic version
stoic needle
Yeah
compact pumice
I don't get it
shy dust
You get the hilt from sylv's corpse and do a bunch of rogue shit in Torghast to ...
Sounds like the lego daggers
where you had to sneak into gilneas avoid stealth vision elites and solo an elite mob
pale fossil
That sounds sick.
bright pasture
should i get doomblade on my gloves top guilds in raider io have them too
limber lion
where you had to sneak into gilneas avoid stealth vision elites and solo an elit...
God the questline for Fangs of the Father was soooooo fucking long
compact pumice
Ever since Wrath when they made the catchup gear mechanics it's just so easy to beat the previous raid tiers with like world quest gear even
limber lion
should i get doomblade on my gloves top guilds in raider io have them too
Yes, because of mythic SLG shoulders.
alpine latch
I really wish WoW would adopt a "set bonus gems" approach where you could just swap out a set gem to have the set bonus regardless of what gear you're using.
shy dust
Ever since Wrath when they made the catchup gear mechanics it's just so easy to ...
That’s a stretch
stoic needle
God the questline for Fangs of the Father was soooooo fucking long
It was only long because of the raid grinding part tbh
stoic needle
Sounds like the lego daggers
Yeah definitely, I just think it's a good concept
compact pumice
That’s a stretch
I meant it started in Wrath but now mythic gear will be beaten by crafted gear even.
in 9.1
stoic needle
I farmed the fangs and now I don't use them for transmog
shy dust
Crafted gear will be higher than 226?
alpine latch
"beaten" is a stretch
shy dust
I’d be surprised
alpine latch
no, it won't.
compact pumice
It's 230
bitter canyon
crafted gear max is 230
compact pumice
Nah it's one piece
compact pumice
But normal raid is higher than mythic nathria
shy dust
That has been there for a while
compact pumice
for example
stoic needle
The korthia gear will be 233
shy dust
n next tier is 226
stoic needle
Well, upgradeable to 233
compact pumice
Normal is equal
Oh you're right, misremeberd, thought it was all 230+ but it's equal yeah
alpine latch
To boost gear to 233, it costs 8575 stygia AND requires Renown 75
If you're worried about being out-geared by Korthia almost 2 months into the tier, then IDK what to tell you
compact pumice
Renown 75 will be like 2 months 1 week right?
compact pumice
3 first weeks until campaign is over at least
alpine latch
yup
compact pumice
If we get 8 parts again that's 2 months
then 1 week for the last renown to 75
and end up at 76
alpine latch
Korthia gear isn't an immediate catch up, it's just helping non-raiders get some gear that's slightly better than normal raid 2+ months after raids are out.
bitter canyon
thought stygia was going to be a useless resource in 9.1
stoic needle
bitter canyon
will we need to stockpile it?
compact pumice
Yeah
stoic needle
You thought wrong 
compact pumice
Stockpile it and grind it every night still
limber lion
Wait
alpine latch
You buy the gear for Stygia, you upgrade it Cataloged Research
limber lion
What is stygia used for?
compact pumice
Nah
alpine latch
Nope.Not at all
bitter canyon
wait what
limber lion
Phew, got stressed for a minute there
alpine latch
lol
compact pumice
It's prob some EPIC POGGERS jail set for those BDSM lovers
alpine latch
You'll gain Stygia in Maw 2.0 still anyway I think
compact pumice
Isn't it just connected like an island?
alpine latch
Haven't bought a single socket or conduit upgrade
alpine latch
I'm so sorry.
alpine latch
My goal is to end SL with every single obtainable mount possible
compact pumice
This shit really turned me off retail tbh
alpine latch
Including CE mounts
alpine latch
lol
compact pumice
But Shadowlands still is barely started and I still have shit on my to do list
alpine latch
Classic just died because it turned into a "We suck so we have to rely on world buffs to kill bosses that didn't require this 15 years ago" simulator
alpine latch
Some did, sure.
compact pumice
But yeah world buffs was a problem since it was a PITA to get
alpine latch
We had 3 raid teams in MC
compact pumice
week in week out
alpine latch
Dissolved in AQ because everyone was bored of having fuck all to do
Classic was fun for a month
compact pumice
We lost leadership in start of naxx and it was both Shadowlands release looming and holidays so some people quit. But we merged with another guild to finish it out
alpine latch
The biggest problem with Classic, is that while the game didn't change, neither did the attitude of the people who played it.
compact pumice
I really enjoyed classic. It just sucked to get world buffs and then losing them a lot quicker than getting them
But I got into retail
and it's fun AF to play a rogue
in all content
it's a good game
that I wish I could play now
Guess I was more butthurt about it than I thought. It just feels like blizz is forcing me to play TBC now
¯_(ツ)_/¯
alpine latch
Yeah, the game is just so much smoother. There's things I don't like about the modern combat system, but honestly Sin is just so smooth
So much smoother than anything else, for me personally.
compact pumice
I like all the specs tbh. They have their weak points but it's a great kit.
I just don't like some of the design choices, and the playerbase's attitudes atm
stoic needle
Our one raid team guild made it all the way to mid naxx before we exploded because of drama
And now we're back together again going headfirst into tbc
compact pumice
Drama is an issue for sure. Reminds you that there's players playing the game
stoic needle
There's something that retail lacks that classic has that makes you want to keep playing it but I'm not quite sure what it is
red plaza
Server community?
stoic needle
That's definitely part of it
compact pumice
Many of the systems just are very straightforward. So it feels like your only progressions paths to walk are designed by blizzard. But in Classic you make your own shit, it's just a bunch of systems that allow you to optimise it yourself.
But if the BIS gear for mythic raiding is in PVP then people whine so they change that in retail
but having to do pretty much all content to get "bis" is a given in classic
I think this leads to people being frustrated by their chosen content running out
slow marsh
Classic grind feels more rewarding than retail is what I think it is
stoic needle
Yeah I think that's what it is
slow marsh
Most anything you're grinding is an actual payout equivalent to the grind, and the community also acknowledges said grind. Retail you grind because if you don't you can't play period
stoic needle
The percentage of damage increase from gearing up from tier to tier is probably similar, but the way classic itemization is and the way that classes scale with stats feels more tangible in classic
Like you go from not being able to be hit capped, to being hit capped, to having a bunch of dps stats on top of being hit capped
And, being a glass Cannon to being very durable while also putting out huge damage
And that changes the way you play the game
slow marsh
Yeah it also feels more modular in classic and feels more rewarding for high skill play
Completely agree with all that. Like I get a lot of people hated hit rating and expertise but it gave a sense of accomplishment actually hitting those cap stones
stoic needle
Like imagine if 10-20% of your mutilates and ruptures and garottes just failed to apply
And then you get capped and they always work
compact pumice
You're rewarded for researching as well. In a sense you have way less control in retail since like half of the gear you get is from vault which is such a random way to dole out loot.
In classic your prebis might be a quest somewhere and the next upgrade might be in an heroic even until BT
stoic needle
That sort of gameplay change is very noticeable
limber lion
Like imagine if 10-20% of your mutilates and ruptures and garottes just failed t...
is that fun gameplay though?
I played classic for a while and it was just very... tolling.
compact pumice
It's fun to start doing damage yeah
limber lion
Maybe I'm just a baby back bitch
slow marsh
Vanilla classic is brutal for sure
compact pumice
When you get past being bad
stoic needle
^
stoic needle
The fun is in overcoming being trash
shy dust
is that fun gameplay though?
It’s not
limber lion
yeh big agree
slow marsh
But I'm in it for p2 and 3 where the qol stuff started hitting and also rogues got decent
stoic needle
Like yes, it objectively sucks when half your stuff doesn't work, but once you get to the point where it does, its fun
shy dust
DoNt let the classic apologists get you Ceve
limber lion
Retail 
stoic needle
And you have to work to get to that point
compact pumice
I don't even like phase 1 tbc
Some of the fun is trying to clear the hard content with pretty shit gear you had since leveling
Then you can go back and clear that shit with big boy gear and you feel like going back a whole expansion in retail
gloomy knoll
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shy dust
<@!167090536602140682> 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 <:prayge:803711491021733888> 六四天安...
Banned in China
slow marsh
Jesus
gloomy knoll
Banned in China
what's banned in china mean lol
slow marsh
He's a Chinese outlaw player from the futurr
gloomy knoll
lol
compact pumice
Imagine Deathspike + Zoldyck
shy dust
You referenced practically every controversial topic related to China in that post
stoic needle
Whereas in retail you just grind because.... That's all there is to do? I guess?
gloomy knoll
You referenced practically every controversial topic related to China in that po...
LOL
someone get john cena to apologize for me
oh he already did?
phew we in the clear bois
stoic needle
Like raiding is different, because there's a goal of clearing all the challenging content
compact pumice
Cena apologised for your sins
gloomy knoll
compact pumice
slow marsh
1 rogue 4 executes
stoic needle
compact pumice
Like raiding is different, because there's a goal of clearing all the challengin...
Raiding is yeah. But I feel like 233 gear seems so underwhelming compared to being full 226
slow marsh
I mean he talking about classic tho I think
compact pumice
I feel like a mythic raider should be able to get a full 233 equiv set, or even 239 or whaever
stoic needle
Raiding is yeah. But I feel like 233 gear seems so underwhelming compared to bei...
But like, going from MC/BWL bis to full naxx bis is a totally different character almost
I would get killed by any raid trash mob that looked at me funny in mc/BWL bis, in naxx bis I literally tank raid bosses in dps gear/spec
slow marsh
Yeah there's like 3 tiers for every 1 actual tier
stoic needle
But in retail 233 gear vs 226 gear is just a few hundred more dps
slow marsh
There was actual levels to that shit
Now it's just what sims higher? Ok I'll take that
compact pumice
But like, going from MC/BWL bis to full naxx bis is a totally different characte...
Yeah, and if you're fresh 60 it will take you ages to "catch up" in gear. Well, maybe not with all the GDKP runs but almost
💸
foggy ember
Anyone able to give a little advice on what I'm doing wrong here on sludge? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/d6DF9a7YxtgTNLnZ/
compact pumice
Yeah there's like 3 tiers for every 1 actual tier
And also not, you could use like ragnaros belt until naxx even, and the Naxx belt was even a sidegrade only.
limber lion
Anyone able to give a little advice on what I'm doing wrong here on sludge? http...
I'll take a look, give me a few moments.
compact pumice
Gear was just... pretty equally doled out in all content
I don't think we'll go do Nathria runs when Sancum is out
slow marsh
And also not, you could use like ragnaros belt until naxx even, and the Naxx bel...
Or how some naxx pieces are still viable at 70?
stoic needle
My warrior is still using that goddamn onyxia axe
I literally could not get a better mainhand
The deathbringer curse
shy dust
Does assassination exist in classic
slow marsh
No
nimble tartan
yeah
slow marsh
I mean it does but it's actual garbage
stoic needle
Nah it's not a good spec at all
compact pumice
Or how some naxx pieces are still viable at 70?
Even AQ. That damn Badge of the Swarmguard will be bis for short fights for physical DPS until some pretty great trinkets start dropping
slow marsh
Hemo swords is better
shy dust
That’s wild and now that we are on classic discussion
We should take that to the classic channel
stoic needle
Even AQ. That damn Badge of the Swarmguard will be bis for short fights for phys...
got badge on our first AQ clear 
anyway my whole point about this is that i wish that retail could find a way to make gear progression satisfying again
because it's not right now
slow marsh
I agree
compact pumice
I use badge now while leveling on my fury warr. The dps with it on compared to off in aoe is like... 50% difference??
Super pro
foggy ember
@limber lion thanks man
shy dust
Gear feels fine
slow marsh
They are at least somewhat exploring that with stuff like sylv dagger proc
stoic needle
gear is fuckin boring man
shy dust
There used to be more jumps between tiers and difficulties I believe
And people complained
compact pumice
Gear in retail is pretty inconsequential. You just get it passively while playing, as long as you do some content each week you have a chance at vault.
shy dust
About inflation
shy dust
Gear in retail is pretty inconsequential. You just get it passively while playin...
As long as you do some shit in classic you get gear
compact pumice
And people complained
Yes, which is nice, that means they want it so they grind it
shy dust
Just classic doesn’t have m+
stoic needle
As long as you do some shit in classic you get gear
wrong
slow marsh
I mean that's not true but
stoic needle
evidenced by the fact that my warrior has used the same axe for literally over a year
compact pumice
As long as you do some shit in classic you get gear
You can grind shit out for ages without the thing you want dropping
stoic needle
while clearing raids every week
shy dust
You can grind shit out for ages without the thing you want dropping
So that just disappeared in retail?
I’ll get back to you on that
When I have nearly 20 kills of shriek without a trinket
compact pumice
Hehe, well there's just so many sidegrades
stoic needle
yeah
compact pumice
You have a choice of 40 trinkets that perform similarly
compact pumice
That was an exaggeration but that's how it feels
shy dust
Yes you do 3 of the end game systems and you get loot
stoic needle
there aren't really the same number of viable options in classic vs retail
compact pumice
Nah getting actual BIS is really fucking hard in retail.
shy dust
No it’s not
compact pumice
Since you get fucked by vault being so incredibly random
shy dust
Like yah said that grind to get an item
slow marsh
I mean true but it's also not as big of a deal as in classic
shy dust
Just not that there in retail
stoic needle
i think it's possible to make gear progression feel meaningful without inflating stats hugely between each tier
but people are afraid of hit rating and resistances
compact pumice
Yeah but you just end up with 226 or 229 if you can clear it all, and then say "OK that's it" even though there's a few better pieces for you
stoic needle
people think that it's bad game design or whatever
compact pumice
Yeah
shy dust
It is
stoic needle
but they have made gear so fucking boring by making ilevel > all, agi> all
stoic needle
where is it not
shy dust
Bfa????
shy dust
We are on the first tier
compact pumice
Yeah we will see I guess
shy dust
Agi dropped off hard in bfa
stoic needle
why would it change in later tiers?
stoic needle
lol
limber lion
Anyone able to give a little advice on what I'm doing wrong here on sludge? http...
I'm looking at your best pull, which is the 8% wipe. Wipe #20.
-
Use your potion on the 4th pillar, not the second.
-
You should save most of your SBS charges for the pillars. If you proc gemstones between pillars, just ignore the proc. Usually they line up pretty well or just after the pillar.
Otherwise looks really good, you use Shiv properly, you use cooldowns properly, you don't reapply bleeds during vulnerabilities etc. The only thing holding you back now is the kill timer. As much as it might hurt to hear, but your team is holding you back, son.
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> yah got full BiS bro?
Missing Sire daggers, ring and phial.
shy dust
You don’t gotta grind for those items
limber lion
Sire stuff will come eventually, phial is the tough one. But I don't really care for it
Yeh exactly
shy dust
It’s your fault yah don’t got em
limber lion
shy dust
Agi was shit most of bfa
limber lion
I wish I could just grind mythic Sire daily for my weapons
shy dust
Imagine all the loot
void pecan
My life on parses
Shit kill times
When you beat locks and magss and boomkins who get pi
slow marsh
We are on the first tier
This is actually true as the pool gets bigger our gear stuffs will be better
It's also been a really long time since xpac dropped and still no .1 vs other xpacs
So it feels worse
real solar
Just demand PI from your priests or annoy them till they do it
foggy ember
@limber lion Thanks for the feedback, I know i def used a lot of SBS before pillars, will fix it up and hopefully get the kill next week
shy dust
Just slam without PI
real solar
You guys def kill next week
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> Thanks for the feedback, I know i def used a lot of SBS b...
No worries mate. Good luck!
solid mica
what's the ideal talent setup for starting denny prog? also should we just use doomblade till we get to p3?
limber lion
what's the ideal talent setup for starting denny prog? also should we just use ...
You should just stick to either legendary for the entire progression.
real solar
I mean with the nerf, you can use doomblade for prog, or zoldyck - but stick to one
limber lion
It's not really worth swapping around.
real solar
for all of prog
slow marsh
yepper
limber lion
BS/DS/CT is really good all around. It's less burst on the adds and less overall, but it'll pump in P3 where most of the damage is needed.
EP/Vig/CT is probably fine as well with the nerfs, but with 10 people dying to the overlap on progression, the extra dps from BS/DS might come in clutch.
solid mica
yeah ideally i optimize for p3, but i didn't know if it'd be worth it to start out for p1/2 just to see more of the fight faster
limber lion
It's better to just stick to one build for the entire progression.
real solar
nah, not worth
limber lion
It might just mess up with your add timers and cooldowns.
real solar
you’ guys will nail p1 and p2 with just getting more pulls in
And people getting comfortable
solid mica
we just roll MA talent?
real solar
ya
solid mica
also anyone that's necro usually go Emeni for prog? it's a dps loss for me strictly but with a bunch of melee seems like it might be better suited?
all the logs are gemstones, but those obvi weren't prog kills
limber lion
also anyone that's necro usually go Emeni for prog? it's a dps loss for me stric...
No, just stick to Heirmir.
Heirmir is much better for Assassination in general.
solid mica
aight, I mainly play outlaw so I wasn't sure if sin had a large preference or not
limber lion
Yeah, we prefer Heirmir for all content.
Emeni can be fine sometimes, but Heirmir is the go-to.
solid mica
gemstones, yea? or just sim those diff's
stoic needle
Heirmir is good when you get lots of resets, but I don't think sire really counts. Slg maybe
Or council
limber lion
gemstones, yea? or just sim those diff's
Yes Gemstones.
limber lion
Heirmir is good when you get lots of resets, but I don't think sire really count...
Emeni*
But yeah, Emeni is pretty dank for Council.
stoic needle
xD yeah emeni
solid mica
i played outlaw for slg with emeni and it was pretty nuts with sbs
you just sim patchwerk for sire?
limber lion
You can't really sim for Sire that effectively.
I just recommend that you just ask questions about the encounter here and we'll help you out with making the right choice to find inspiration from.
2 months ago I would have recommended to check out the top logs and just copy them, but now they're just filled with padding builds so it's not really a good source of info in terms of progression
real solar
im one of 3 blindside/pb gamers on the front page of sin for sire T_T - i wish i was able to pad
limber lion
Proud of ya
raven vapor
Just started council progression, noticed a lot of rogues running CT, is this just padding or does the energy regen outweigh focusing the priority target?
limber lion
Just started council progression, noticed a lot of rogues running CT, is this ju...
You do not get energy from using CT.
CT is only used for padding on Council.
It's usually paired up with Necrolord, Emeni and Zoldyck.
balmy condor
It's usually paired up with Necrolord, Emeni and Zoldyck.
what if we paired up and boogied down
raven vapor
Good to know, thought as much. So for progressions I'm best sticking with heirmir/pb? Tbh I was struggling keeping everything ticking whilst learning the encounter
balmy condor
Good to know, thought as much. So for progressions I'm best sticking with heirmi...
yeh for prog that's fine
council is a fight that looks aoe and is just single target
raven vapor
Yeah I'm assuming we want to keep bleeds on a 2nd target for the regen though?
It's hard to pick out what is padding and what is used for the benefit of ST damage looking at the top logs
limber lion
Yeah I'm assuming we want to keep bleeds on a 2nd target for the regen though?
Yes. Both garrote and rupture.
limber lion
It's hard to pick out what is padding and what is used for the benefit of ST dam...
Everything you see in the top logs is padding.
You don't get rank 1's with ethical, progression-minded gameplay.
You gotta be filthy
real solar
any filthy theotar cheesers in chat?
raven vapor
Got it, thanks for the help
limber lion
My pleasure.
drowsy parcel
You gotta be filthy
why you gotta call me filthy 
our trial boomkin died so i had to take it upon myself to kill all the adds
(i have r1 council)
limber lion
Yeh, you're probably also the literal only one in warcraftlogs who's sitting at 230 equipped ilvl because of double 233 trinkets
What a gamer.
limber lion
our trial boomkin died so i had to take it upon myself to kill all the adds
Sure, sure. That's why you also chose to go with DS, CT , Emeni with double pot and Zoldyck, right? 
because you knew in advance that he would have died.
drowsy parcel
its the best spec for single target what can i say
solid mica
what conduits we want for sire?
potency*
i think sudden fractures sims highest even in ST for me
solid mica
thx homie
limber lion
Oh that reminds me I need to go deposit my new conduits
dire spoke
sudden what now
limber lion
not sure if troll
dire spoke
oh the cov thing 
solid mica
does zold increase dmg from phial and things like that?
limber lion
does zold increase dmg from phial and things like that?
No.
solid mica
thx
balmy condor
limber lion
'
balmy condor
solid mica
sims says I open with sbs on ST, is that actually correct or na?
limber lion
Yes it is.
shadow tulip
😄
loud niche
<:smilers:819527472554180648>
hihi, i like the new pfp :3
balmy condor
ty
tawdry temple
hi, how is assa looking in 9.1 so far?
balmy condor
fine
fierce tulip
Any tips for council as sin rogue, I see people running EP/vigor. am i just playing it like a usual ST fight or am i trying to multidot the other bosses at all for energy?
balmy condor
dot 1 additional boss
4-5 bleeds
people play EP/vigor cause it wins once there's more than 1 target
CT is kinda padding though
just add damage
fierce tulip
ok so i'm dotting up a 2nd boss for the extra energy and its a gain in ST with the talent build?
final sky
true pelican
CT is kinda padding though
idk, ct is close enough to pb and waiters do need to die at some point
gusty mirage
@balmy condor hi there, huge fan
balmy condor
gusty mirage
<a:thinkge:834162718663507988>
heavy skiff
Would u take WPS or DD for sludgefist?
balmy condor
duelist
heavy skiff
ok ty
slow marsh
Wow honestly jealous of the whispirer emotes
balmy condor
thorny pond
What leggo is everyone playing in SD? Still like Zolds?
balmy condor
ye
thorny pond
Time to go outlaw
stoic needle
if i had dashing i'd run it in sd
thorny pond
or dashing
stoic needle
Time to go outlaw
it is never time to go outlaw
thorny pond
That's how I feel about sub
stoic needle
sub is actually fun though
thorny pond
Not a fan of this iteration of it
stoic needle
it's still more fun than outlaw
thorny pond
I wanted to believe
But
eh
I had as much faith in Sub in prepatch as a 6 year old child does in their ez-bake oven
wise fiber
Ma or zoldyck on tyranycal ? 15 and down
silent tinsel
elder flint
on council is it worth to apply rupture on every boss
elder flint
thank you
solid mica
is Deathly vanish prepull worth losing an MA buff? i would imagine
solid mica
the 3 sec MA buff better than the deathly buff?
slow marsh
It's better on sub, idk how much value sin gets from it
Better than nothing i suposed
Suppose
solid mica
well I just lose the vanish ma 3 sec window but i gain the 15% dam buff for like 10 sec
slow marsh
and 5 cp
solid mica
yeah, i've been losing my cp on pull for some reason
balmy condor
need to pop snd before you swap out
hidden hound
What stats for Zold Boots? Crit Vers work?
balmy condor
usually haste crit
hidden hound
Ok, well when I made them I used Crit vers so I needed to know if it was a little mess up or a big mess up
solid mica
pop snd right when you use it?
good call
slow marsh
😀
balmy condor
Ok, well when I made them I used Crit vers so I needed to know if it was a littl...
most likely completely irrelevant
hidden hound
Ok cool :3 I'm only 188 so it probably doesn't matter that much rn anyways lol
slow marsh
I think we can swap stats next patch anyways. but not sure what that'll cost
balmy condor
2-3 pieces with "bad" stats or whatever you want to call them
will not impact you
at all
slow marsh
Do we know what the 3rd slot for zold / doomblade is yet
misty holly
Guys guys, I got my first gold parse. I'm so fucking proud right now
balmy condor
gz
misty holly
I even forgot to flask. It's crazy.
cerulean nest
ugh this Council neck sucks but its my last 226
sacred isle
Why does it suck? Does it sim worse?
umbral hearth
grats @misty holly , what fight was it?
cerulean nest
like slightly worse than my 220. and just so much mastery
sacred isle
Then don’t use it?
misty holly
grats <@!306905710762131467> , what fight was it?
Huntsman!
spice spire
W
solid mica
thanks for the advice boiz, did some decent work on a lil' donny prog this evening
cerulean nest
so sludge prog, is sub still the move over sin?
balmy condor
no
balmy condor
yep
granite thistle
Def not
Sludgefist ez pz
@balmy condor Hey i love you
Just wanted to let you know
balmy condor
granite thistle
Is Necro still goto for next tier? Purely raid wise.
Or can I still be a vampire
balmy condor
necro looks good
keen cairn
Is Necro still goto for next tier? Purely raid wise.
U can still be Venthyr tho. It will be slightly better in ST but falls off as soon as at least 1 additional target comes in. Even if it's only temporary.
BUT play what u prefer the most :Clappers:
balmy condor
yeh the problem becomes though that the crit fix brings it even closer
granite thistle
Crit fix?
balmy condor
and necro will have the higher single target as well with adds
like something like sire where you have some adds to funnel off of
that'll be necro juice
there's only 2 real single target fights the way it looks
so with the fact that there's any adds available to spike, you'll get single target gains
balmy condor
Crit fix?
they finally fixed the bug that the dot doesn't crit
yeah, you would have to swap targets
the spike gives cp based on how many targets are dotted
granite thistle
I see.
balmy condor
yeah pretty much
granite thistle
I shall finish vampire cucks and swap to my necro overlords
Stinkees is ready.
233 dagger off first try
EASY
fleet whale
I know this is old news at this point but...
i'm hyped for those Sylvanas daggers, lol
soft shale
they even have good stats high crit hgmmm
fleet whale
yeah, it looks awesome for sin and sub, and prolly outlaw too for offhand
also high ilvl
fallen arch
i'm hyped for those Sylvanas daggers, lol
THEY EVEN LOOK GREAT WHAAAT
quaint carbon
anyone know why logs would look different from actual fight log from guy who took them and from my character page ? (95-100 parses that looks 90-91 in the summary/character page)
plush delta
does anyone know if the shrouded suffocation trait existed in some form before BFA version?
wondering if it seems likely that it will be re-introduced.. miss having some kind of burst on assa
balmy condor
does anyone know if the shrouded suffocation trait existed in some form before B...
it wa snot
The burst also wasn’t the fault of shrouded suffocation alone
It just was a piece in the puzzle that came together
Corruptions causing haste steroids like bloodlust and vita and Galecallers to go ballistic
Not to mention blood was a strong crit/crit damage steroid, basically just a multiplier on top
Shrouded + Subt stacking made for a lot of bleed damage, making exsang viable
Exsang then doubles the dps on top of all the other stuff
That’s where the real strength was
In the layers
deep carbon
is shadowgrasp not good?
balmy condor
Shadowgrasp is good
deep carbon
i see it sims really high, but i dont see people running it on warcraft logs
deep carbon
i dont have it, but im just wondering for min max purposes
balmy condor
For min max purposes you would use other trinkets
deep carbon
it looks like its only lower than phial, iqd, and a 233 dreadfire
in sims
but i see people running hateful chain, past sins, and skulkers over it
balmy condor
Hateful chain is up there
Past sins is a weird one to me sim wise
Cause it for sure gets beat
It’s in no way bad though
Skulkers is dreadfire but worse
deep carbon
i need to get rid of this flayed wing toxin lol
i got a 220 iqd but idk if its bait or not
odd hazel
are you venth?
deep carbon
yes
deep carbon
let me log on real quick
odd hazel
If yes, the IQD is better
deep carbon
oh well nah my haste is higher by like 300
odd hazel
IQD is only "good" if crit rating is higher then haste rating.
i'd still prob use it over your flayed wing toxin
deep carbon
whats my ideal trinket from M+
odd hazel
Phial.
deep carbon
other than phial
deep carbon
well my guilds only 5/10 so chain is out of the question for me
odd hazel
i would just farm M+ tbh, get a phail + a shadowgrasp/IQD ( for when you get that crit up )
deep carbon
is crit > haste?
odd hazel
i have all crit/haste gear besides like 4 peices ( neck, helm and both weaps ) at 220 and my haste is only about 50 higher then my crit ( 30% crit, 23% haste )
odd hazel
what are your rings/neck like?
odd hazel
i cant remember if that sire ring is high haste or high mastery.
deep carbon
high haste
you dont have higher crit than haste do you?
like numbers wise, not percentage
odd hazel
i do not--- let me check really quick
yeah, crit is like
50 below haste
:^) have a 226 crit/vers ring sitting in my bags for when i get my IQD upgraded
697 crit/ 750 haste
i kind of fucked up the way i was originally gonna use IQD because i ended up getting a 226 haste/vers belt from vault.
deep carbon
i think my issue may be the 500 vers i got?
i used to main sub so its been a pain trying to switch gear
odd hazel
ahh yeah
i mained sub at the beginning
Banshee's Blight
100 yd range
Approximately 1 procs per minute
Your attacks apply Banshee's Blight, giving your finishers a chance to deal X shadow damage. Banshee's Blight stacks up to 4 times the more injured the target is.
this dagger effect is mint
deep carbon
wheres that at
odd hazel
thats the sylvanas dagger effect
deep carbon
any recent news about a certain smokey bomb after the interviews?
odd hazel
dont think so
wait
@balmy condor
the dagger isnt a unique equip
does that mean the effect stacks
if so
bleak sun
Lil poggy 
balmy condor
Atm no reason to believe it doesn’t stack
final star
better than what I got 
dim temple
any1 know what this addon is called ... the long one that god down from pull and show other boss colddowns its the mid left side of the screen?, I been asking around no one seems to know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9HyAOgmBIw&t=4s
limber lion
any1 know what this addon is called ... the long one that god down from pull and...
It's a weak aura
limber lion
dim temple
thanks man big help ❤️
limber lion
No worries buddy.
shadow tusk
Can you snapshot vessel with bonesmith crit?
limber lion
Can you snapshot vessel with bonesmith crit?
No.
shadow tusk
aight thought as well cheers
terse talon
i think it replaces them
tropic ocean
yep
quaint carbon
ohh nice thx
tropic ocean
wa wont work without either bigwigs or dbm
terse talon
hmm I have a question when checking the video
the health bars of all enemy boss targets. Is that a WA aswell?
tropic ocean
thats boss frames id say
terse talon
from DBM/BW?
tropic ocean
from elvui
terse talon
oooh
tropic ocean
dunno if blizz ui has it as well
tropic ocean
np
tulip nacelle
yeah that just look like boss frames
quaint carbon
why would a log from my character summary page be different from linked log from the guy who saved the fight? (on Damage done)
tulip nacelle
there is a weakaura that shows all currently active mobs and their hp as well but you can't target through it
tropic ocean
why would a log from my character summary page be different from linked log from...
character page ranks log vs all logs
quaint carbon
but when i click on the specific fight, through character it sdhow different aswell
tropic ocean
and inside the log its ranked vs today or last week or smth
indigo escarp
I think what he means is: he or you might have been phased/ too far away from each other depending on fight
quaint carbon
left is from charcter summary->sludgefitst->fight of yesterday. second is from dude raid link->sludgefist
im trying to understand im not that good with logs
tropic ocean
your dmg done is not different
just the amount of logs your ranked against
1 is overall 1 is historical or smt
quaint carbon
ohhh okay
tropic ocean
on character page ur log is ranked against 16.626 other kills and is 90% ile
quaint carbon
so 100 is prob more accurate than 86 or other way around ?
(considering logs arent randomish)
tropic ocean
90 is more accurate
youre top 10% out of all assa rogues that killed sludgefist
idk how u see the 100 when I open your log it was 86 on last 2 weeks
and 90 in overall (all.logs)
quaint carbon
yeahh i must be some kind of bug or something like that
tropic ocean
but yeah 7k is not even close to r1
quaint carbon
irk? thats why it seemed really odd to me
quaint carbon
computer things
dawn ivy