assassination

[slow marsh]

DB is just to make you feel better about not padding upstairs and also helps to push to phase 2

[pale fossil]

Yeah, we're at the point where we're entering P3 once in awhile, but we're entering it not having done enough damage in P2.

[slow marsh]

My experience anyways

[pale fossil]

Also, selfishly, I'm on the edge of being included in the main raid group, so I need all the (material) damage I can get.

[slow marsh]

Zold is probably still better for that though because of the 2-3 target advantage. But that's more up to how you're playing it I guess

[spice spire]

Unethical rogue gameplay

[pale fossil]

The way we're playing P2 is focusing hard on named adds, but only passive cleave on the cabalists, so I'm not sure I'd get value out of it.

[slow marsh]

Just tell them to look at your boss damage and maybe they'll change their minds? That's been helping me last couple weeks as we've been nuking the adds but slacking on sire dmg going into p3

[slow marsh]

You should still try to bleed them up which in turn gives the zold value.

[alpine latch]

^

Use what you're doing right

And throw someone under the bus

[slow marsh]

Yep

[pale fossil]

Yeah, it's basically the same story here. I got told I'm "probably being included on a more permanent basis" because I prog'd with them yesterday and did the most damage in the raid and third most overall in P2.

[nimble tartan]

guys i finally got a 99 on shriekwing i just had to exploit ty for the tips

[pale fossil]

I've just been throwing Rupture, CT, and SBS on them and calling it a day.

[alpine latch]

One of "worst" raiders used to absolutely smoke our best (both Fury) in add damage on Sire in p2. He just flat out positioned better so he was hitting all 4 (Sire, Remornia, 2 adds). If I didn't look at P2 damage, literally no one would have known.

[slow marsh]

I showed my RL that I was consistently #1 boss damage while still nuking the first named add and he's more excited about bringing me in because we are a few % short going into p3

[nimble tartan]

what if u didnt nuke add and hit boss only bro

[slow marsh]

That's perfect, and also good for zold

[limber lion]

I should've done prove your worth yesterday

[slow marsh]

? What that

[limber lion]

The questline to swap covenants.

[slow marsh]

Oh duh

[pale fossil]

I'll probably craft Zold just so I have the option. Not like the Soul Ash is doing me any good for anything else atm.

[slow marsh]

Yes I'm on my 2nd week so I'll be back Necro for raid friday

[slow marsh]

What rank DB do you have and what zold would you be able to craft. That plays a part I think

[wary ice]

where you goin?

[limber lion]

Back to Necro.

[pale fossil]

For sure. I'm going to run it through a couple sims to see if it makes sense, and I wouldn't use it unless it was 235 (where my DB is).

[wary ice]

T-T we'll miss you

[limber lion]

Now that I'm private logging everything, might as well

It's a better and cheaper experience overall

:p

I did just get 226 Lashing Scars though

[wary ice]

T-T

im staying venthyr in the hopes that they over buff sub

[shy dust]

Sub venthyr slaps

With all the cheese

Believe in it

[bitter canyon]

@limber lion Hey! I just downloaded warcraft logs and did a quick +13 to test it out, do you mind taking another quick look at my logs?

or anyone really, to see what I can do better

[limber lion]

Well m+ logs are still very painful to review and are not as simple, but sure I can take a quick peek

[bitter canyon]

if not no worries, since you already did a review already 🙂

you can just take a quick look and if nothing really pops out then no need to look any deeper

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QAjnf83TrzBaN6H7#fight=last

[spice spire]

Even on a 13 CT should be higher, right?

[bitter canyon]

sorry to single you out like that lol

so when would you CT? I remember a lot of people saying to just DoT stuff up instead of CT spamming

[spice spire]

Well you subt, rupture, fan (if over 3) CT, then rupture elsewhere, just keep CT up in the meantime. You don’t want to spam CT but you use it every 12 seconds or so

I’m way over simplifying it

But keeping CT up is damage stonks, but you also want to keep your ruptures and stuff up as well

It’s a lot of tab n stabbing

[bitter canyon]

I should probably prioritize CT uptime then, since I usually try to 4-5 point rupture everything first before CTing

I would garrote x4 -> CT -> then make sure everything has rupture on it -> CT

[limber lion]

So a few things:

1. You need to be more mindful of your cooldowns. You should have cooldowns for the bosses, especially on Tyrannical weeks. You can often get 2 sets of CD's during Tyrannical weeks, if you have them up when the boss fight begins.

2. You should be using Crimson Tempest a lot more. You should be using CT as your first finisher (IF you have SND already up) and then only start applying Ruptures.

[bitter canyon]

I should prob make sure CT stays up between those two CT casts

[limber lion]

Like let's take the first few pulls as an example

You used your first CT at 16 seconds.

Second one at 81 seconds.

A whole 65 seconds laters.

That was on Spires as well, so there are definitely mobs in the beginning where you should be using CT quite a few times on.

But yeah, just focus on using CT more often on packs.

You actually should be using CT even in single target when talented into it, outside of Shiv windows

[spice spire]

Cev went more in depth

I shortcut it and just saw damage breakdown lol

[limber lion]

So whenever you're in any encounter ever, you should be using CT

[bitter canyon]

got it!

was also wondering when to use envenom vs. CT

[limber lion]

On AoE you use Envenom to maintain Slice n Dice, when you have bleeds on everything (which is pretty much never on 3+ targets) or when targets are about to die so applying bleeds would be a waste.

[gloomy fern]

did u win ur trial

[bitter canyon]

so envenom's poison application chance isn't worth trying to maintain uptime on?

[wary ice]

and in ST you CT as a maintence bleed outside of shivs

[loud trench]

Hitting a target dummy and a few questions, if we have an ambush proc inside a shiv window do we continue to wait for mut/mut spam? Also does it make sense to hold shiv for 2-3 seconds to pool when at like 10 energy? Or shiv on cd and only get 1 maybe 2 enevoms in

[wary ice]

envenom buff is not worth as much as ct uptime in aoe

[limber lion]

I mean, we had a raid tonight and killed 9 bosses for the vault. They don't even technically have a trial rank, so idk lol.

[bitter canyon]

got it, never heard of using CT for single target before coming here so definetly something ill add

[wary ice]

and you need to maintian rup/garrote for energy

[limber lion]

It's a very small addition, it's not major

A lot of players just choose to not do it.

[gloomy fern]

but i mean no fuck ups r1 etc

[limber lion]

Using CT in aoe is much more important.

[wary ice]

is it small?

[limber lion]

Yeh, nothing major. Didn't die to anything dumb. Didn't do a Flower.

[wary ice]

I thought it was "big deal" now since the damage buff when it was target capped - at least when compared to PB

[limber lion]

[bitter canyon]

got it, thank you so much man! will try to analyze my own logs from now on and stuff, just needed a point in the right direction

[gloomy fern]

[pale fossil]

Isn't PB better for ST as long as the boss isn't schmooving on the raid?

[bitter canyon]

again, your help is greatly appreciated cev 😄

[limber lion]

It's honestly usually easier to just record your gameplay and try to analyze that instead of looking at logs.

[bitter canyon]

and quake and bull 🙂

[limber lion]

Logs are a very good resource for raids, because the fights are very linear and happen the same way every time.

And are not 30 minutes long either.

[bitter canyon]

ugggh recording

[gloomy fern]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rbeAXBFBCcopoiYVzjv8eR soon 7.2k

[bitter canyon]

alright will keep that in mind, probably wont do it until I start hitting a wall to be honest :p

[spice spire]

Any time papi

[limber lion]

I mean, I've never recorded myself. But I just played a bunch and watched other people play and reviewed logs and videos/streams.

[vital haven]

just switch fight length to 4 mins @gloomy fern ez 7.2k

[limber lion]

If you just watch Ryfie play, you'll see what he's doing and what you could be doing differently.

[bitter canyon]

time to stalk some streamers ezpz

[pale fossil]

I would love to stream but my computer already about shits itself on the first Cleansing Pain

[bitter canyon]

got it, thanks again yall for the help!

[alpine latch]

I'm so jealous... I'll never get there 😦

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8gwCXizAiZe3w9h1wmDLua

I got shoulders today :3

[gloomy fern]

i just need head and daggers

rest is rpetty much bis

[limber lion]

I need DFV, daggers, head, ring, phial...

[subtle tundra]

wait we're linking sims??

[limber lion]

Oh shit

Varas pls no

[gloomy fern]

got council chest today for better stats

[alpine latch]

@subtle tundra Have you cracked 5k yet? /s

[limber lion]

Eyy

[subtle tundra]

my only missing item is 226 phial

[alpine latch]

What's yours at?

[subtle tundra]

i need to sim

[amber mountain]

🤯 hold up... Crimson Tempest on single target?!??!?!?!

sorry, catching up

and apparently I'm not that quick

is CT really that much better than rupture? (now i'm going to read and find an answer to my own question so you don't necessarily have to answer)

[subtle tundra]

thats not what ct is

[alpine latch]

CT doesn't replace rupture

It's used in addition to, and you use it in aoe

[spice spire]

You do both. Only when you’re talented

[amber mountain]

Ok, that's how I use it now

[spice spire]

But when you’re in an m+ and you’re at a boss

Yeah you’ll CT him

[gloomy fern]

oh forgot to activate my 226 lashing

[amber mountain]

Oh yeah, i always try to keep CT up as another bleed, but i guess i misread and thought you guys were saying to use it instead of rupture altogether

[spice spire]

Nooo

Rupture still energy regen 🙂

[amber mountain]

oh thank groot

I was so worried everything I knew was wrong

[limber lion]

7350?

[spice spire]

Better to ask and figure it out than just follow what you thought you read!

[amber mountain]

That's why i asked

[limber lion]

Yeah, you never replace rupture with Crimson Tempest

[wraith dragon]

is there a know bug where flagelation hit once and then just doesn't stack ?

[alpine latch]

@subtle tundra hurry up, I want to feel shitty about myself...

[limber lion]

That means that it got parried.

[wraith dragon]

hmm ok

[amber mountain]

I was gonna say, are you in front of the mob?

[unreal glen]

Hollup, why Intellect on wrists?

[amber mountain]

O.o

[limber lion]

For the memes. It does nothing.

[amber mountain]

Maybe he likes to READ and be smart?

[wraith dragon]

weird, on the log it says it crit

[unreal glen]

Fuck me I was like "HUH?!"

[amber mountain]

that almost seems worth it, i mean, none of the wrist enchants really do much for us, why NOT int?

[unreal glen]

Big brain plays

[limber lion]

I'm assuming your using Lashing Scars?

[wraith dragon]

yep

[limber lion]

I'm just throwing a ball here and could be wrong, but I think what happens is that your Flagellation gets parried, which means that you don't get the stacks, but the Lashing Scars damage still pulls through for the initial Flagellation cast.

Link the log then we'll see.

[wraith dragon]

@limber lion https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DLRfv9ncGrkAJaTw/#fight=11

[limber lion]

It is kind of weird how it doesn't say that it missed or got parried, but there's nothing else that would explain it.

It's happened to me a few times as well, but it's a very rare occurence.

[loud trench]

Are we using ambush procs inside shiv windows or just ignoring them

[limber lion]

Welp idk, maybe it bugged out.

[amber mountain]

Weirdest thing for me on that log is the other rogue in there being NF

[limber lion]

Yes, you always use Blindside procs when you get them.

[loud trench]

Thanks!

[wraith dragon]

yeah first time it happened to me

[sand sigil]

a few questions for you assassination legends. lets say you're fighting 4 mobs, playing CT as well. u open 4 garrotes, slice, fan (to 5cp), CT, fan, rupture the prio kill target, vendetta, shiv, fan, envenom right?

[frigid kestrel]

What Cov?

[balmy condor]

in aoe we don't aoe except to extend slice

[sand sigil]

i thought there was a rule about a combination of 5 garrotes + ruptures, ie if u have 3 garrotes out, then 2 ruptures will suffice. but everyone is saying u should always rupture everything

[earnest bramble]

just sim it bro

[limber lion]

No, we don't follow a bleed rule anymore.

[sand sigil]

necrolord

[balmy condor]

the bleed rule is for priority damage

[limber lion]

In 4 targets you would gar gar gar gar ct sbs sbs snd sbs rup

And then you slam Shiv and just rup everything else.

[balmy condor]

so if you're trying to priority a boss with adds or something

[frigid kestrel]

^

[balmy condor]

you would want 5 bleeds ideally

and no more

[sand sigil]

ok beautiful

[balmy condor]

cause that's the highest single target

[sand sigil]

im talking first boss top so thats exactly what im lookin for

[balmy condor]

but if you're trying to aoe, bleed whatever you can

[daring wadi]

bleeds are for girls

men dont bleed

[gusty mirage]

that was in bfa to make sure we had enough energy to fok spam

[limber lion]

Yeah, if you're focusing on killing the Decapitator (or whoever) first, then having 5 bleeds up in total is enough, but if you're looking to do as much overall damage as possible, then you should be applying more bleeds.

[sand sigil]

okok perfect ty fam

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

James has entered the world of assassination

[amber mountain]

Welcome home James

[frigid kestrel]

Ye, no i doubt thats ever gonna happen. I think hes only looking to play Sin in TOP and Raid

[sand sigil]

assa bis spec

dont let anyone tell u otherwise boys

do u ever envenom in 4t if no prio target. or just spam ct for the initial dam. cuz i always envenomed if all 4 had rup and ct was still up

for the poison buff

[limber lion]

We don't spam CT anymore.

If everyone has Rupture on them, then you would just Envenom.

[balmy condor]

yeh

[void moss]

Meow

[balmy condor]

we only envenom if:

1. everything has rupture and won't survive another
2. CT has >4 sec left
3. SnD needs some extra time

otherwise, bleeds are back on the menu

it's technically not the worst thing to hit a CT before pandemic for example

but hard-spamming it in aoe is a no no

[sand sigil]

beautiful tytytyty

[balmy condor]

np

[limber lion]

[silent fossil]

should i go troll or belf

[pale fossil]

[odd hazel]

troll

zandalari

but

i'd prob go vulp because that extra hearth is nice

[limber lion]

Belf.

We're hot.

[odd hazel]

shut up filthy belf

[gusty mirage]

[odd hazel]

mechagnome ftw

im a belf in tbc classic

so i cant say much

[craggy oak]

When you say if they wont surviv another rupture, are you meaning a 4+ rup or is that including a 1 cp rup, or even ifthey just about live the length of a 1cp rup is it not worth?

[slow marsh]

So we're about to get a bigger influx of m+ sinners I see

[limber lion]

We generally don't want to apply 1cp ruptures.

"Rupture sniping" as it's called is not worth it.

[craggy oak]

Ever?

[balmy condor]

the usual rule is 10 seconds roughly

I think I have a pin on it

[craggy oak]

Tyty

[balmy condor]

technically a low cp rupture is fine in opener, but otherwise no

[slow marsh]

2-3 cp right

Like it's better to rupture FoK rupture than to spam FoK as long as those targets don't have a bleed correct?

[balmy condor]

rupture sniping is very very specific to when you have 1 target and adds that die incredibly fast, so thinking something like sire p1, rupture sniping (casting low cp ruptures for the energy back) those adds is in theory okay

[craggy oak]

^^ answer this

[balmy condor]

but even then it's very very difficult to justify

[craggy oak]

Alright thanks for clarifercation

[balmy condor]

you want to generate to max-1

[subtle tundra]

pretty sure rupture sniping for energy gives energy based on the duration of the rupture so 1 cp rupture isnt gonna give full energy

[balmy condor]

there's been sims done on it, and there might be some niche cases where it's a gain, but the gain even then is super minimal

[slow marsh]

Well yes but if they aren't going to live a 4-5/5-6 rupture then it's better to 2-3 for overall damage right? Like I find few things in m+ group pulls that stay alive long enough for that

[balmy condor]

it's not the worst thing

but it's not something you ever need to consider

[limber lion]

It's very niche. Sniping with 4-5cp will more than likely just overcap you on energy instead

[balmy condor]

actively thinking about low cp ruptures will most likely fuck you up more than the gain is worth

[limber lion]

Which will be an even bigger loss

[craggy oak]

I wasnt really thinking about the energy aspect, just in terms of over all dmg, compared to just pressing envenom

[balmy condor]

I mean I guess it's something to look into on short living adds, something like dungeonslice often gets criticized for its short pull times, and low cp ruptures have never been shown to be a gain in that environment

[slow marsh]

I mean I'm not actively thinking about it. I sub garrote, CT, FoK, rup, FoK, rup, FoK to keep as many adds dotted up until CT comes around

[balmy condor]

so it's really hard for me to think of a place where it's worth

[slow marsh]

And it's variable too I mean not all m+ runs are the same and not all pulls are the same so there's that. But my main question is if something is only living the duration of a 2 or 3 cp rupture is is better to just spam FoK and envenom assuming the biggest target is full ruptured and CT is up

[balmy condor]

yes

it's better to envenom

[slow marsh]

Interesting

I'll have to try that then today

So only rupture things that are going to live a 4-5p rupture, which is like 20ish sec

[slow marsh]

10 sec is 2-3 cp

Actually 1 cp rupture is 8 sec which is ~10 sec to me

That's why I'm confuddled

[balmy condor]

lets see what the sims say

hold on

[slow marsh]

Kk

[balmy condor]

I'll look into it

[slow marsh]

Ty

[silent fossil]

@limber lion https://i.imgur.com/EysKwEP.png praise

[balmy condor]

rupture,if=!variable.skip_rupture&effective_combo_points>=4&refreshable&(pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&target.time_to_die-remains>(4+runeforge.dashing_scoundrel*9+runeforge.doomblade*6) this is the line for reference

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

so it looks for 4cp, in pandemic, and the time to die being 4, 13 with dashing, or 10 with doomblade

[slow marsh]

Does that say FoK at 3 and greater

Or is that just determining the value =3

[silent fossil]

now i have to actually think about when to press torrent

[balmy condor]

that's the rupture line, the target check is for a check for aoe targets

it forces that line to only be active in aoe

[slow marsh]

Gotcha

[stoic needle]

4 seconds for a rupture is much lower than I thought

[slow marsh]

I guess maybe cuz the energy gain ?

But yeah I have been following the 10 second rule

So I guess I just need to FoK more and rupture less

[warm parcel]

The thing many might not have gotten from max talking of rupture sniping is that 1cp ruptures wont fully refill your bar

This is 1cp rupture after one tick

So youre just and just getting your rupture energy back in this case

[balmy condor]

yeh

[warm parcel]

Where as this is rupture at 22sec remaining

[limber lion]

Losing 1 cp in the process.

[balmy condor]

I actually think sims rupture too often

but I haven't looked fully into it

[slow marsh]

welp

[balmy condor]

but now I'm interested

so

guess we're going down the rabbit hole

[silent stratus]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8VbLAFRDNTwm1aCK#fight=29&type=damage-done Switched skulker with sins and did ~500 dps than usual in huntsman - anyone see any big fuckup?

[warm parcel]

[slow marsh]

let's do it

[low girder]

guess we don't see whispyr for a few hours

[gloomy knoll]

lmaoooo

trueeee

[slow marsh]

i want to beat 6.5-7k average

[balmy condor]

if I find a reason to envenom more I'm sure seli would be cooming

[warm parcel]

seli is already salivating

[pale fossil]

Bubble Wand uptime is lacking

[silent stratus]

Is 50% uptime of CT on Margore pretty shitty?

[limber lion]

What about using Envenom vs SnD in packs bigger than 5+ - is it ever worth not using Envenom to maintain the buff and instead use a big 4-5 CP SnD? Because you would need several Envenom casts to maintain the buff, which means more CP used for Envenoms and less CP used for actually putting up bleeds.

[silent stratus]

I tested a new macro that each garrote open a trade window with the DK unholy of my guild

[balmy condor]

one at a time cev

[silent stratus]

Not so bad, just 100 dps less than usual

[pale fossil]

I've actually wondered this a lot, for what it's worth. SnD is harder to keep up in big packs than expected.

[limber lion]

[warm parcel]

Wanting to cast snd like a peasant

smh

[slow marsh]

I mean I was under the impression that after removing the energy gain on snd that it's more important to maintain bleeds than snd

But I can generally maintain snd in between packs and evenom as things are dying to refresh

[limber lion]

SnD is still pretty important.

[slow marsh]

For sure

But garrote and CT are above melee pretty consistently for me

[limber lion]

As they should be.

[slow marsh]

Not saying to never snd

[limber lion]

SnD is not just melee damage though

[slow marsh]

But to me snd is more fluid now as far as how you maintain it in m+

like it's not as simple as rupture on x cp if they live x seconds rules

because of cttc

[limber lion]

I'm not a fan of using Envenom as every 3rd finisher.

When I still have targets that need rupturing

[slow marsh]

Yeah i dont run into that very often personally

[balmy condor]

@slow marsh pardon the bad naming conventions, A is the default, B is low cp ruptures in aoe, D is an extra line that forces low cp ruptures specifically when targets are dying

C is a secret

[slow marsh]

but i can see that being an issue

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

uhhhhhh

[limber lion]

That was quick.

[slow marsh]

Is C ignore rupture and only envenom

CT

[balmy condor]

C is a secret

[low girder]

whispyr making more divine scriptures

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

Would you tell me if i guessed right

[limber lion]

Huge 0.8%

[balmy condor]

yeah but I honestly doubt you'd guess it

[slow marsh]

Hidden blades?

[low girder]

IQD fix

[limber lion]

I doubt it's a build change, it's probably just a change in conditions. He did mention using the sim using Rupture too often.

[balmy condor]

already in :)

[slow marsh]

Oh I know what it is

It's full rupture on everything then exsang

[balmy condor]

fuck

he got it

[slow marsh]

and you're keeping it a secret because everyone will lose their minds

[low girder]

i know, that was the joke

[balmy condor]

exsang master race

[slow marsh]

Wait there's no way that's actually it

[balmy condor]

of course not

[pale fossil]

[low girder]

master poisoner

[warm parcel]

mfd :)

[balmy condor]

fk yo mfd :)

although this probably doesn't affect anything mfd related

so

MFD still better

aight

you guys get another hint

[slow marsh]

yeah no idea

[limber lion]

Change in TTD?

[balmy condor]

man cev's on top of it

[slow marsh]

ofc he is he's our daddy

[primal holly]

What’s TTD? Lol

[balmy condor]

time to death

basically how much longer does an add need to stay alive in order for you to hit a rupture

[primal holly]

Ah ok

[slow marsh]

so 4p rupture at 10 ttd

?

[balmy condor]

yeh

low cps aren't worth

[slow marsh]

I mean the moral of the story for me is less rupture more fok in general

[balmy condor]

ye

[slow marsh]

Which is good to know

[balmy condor]

the moral of the story in general is stop rupturing when things die

[slow marsh]

I dont rupture snipe

[balmy condor]

yeh

aight so @limber lion what was your thing again

snd in aoe?

[warm parcel]

forgoing envenom in aoe and simply hardcasting snd

[slow marsh]

I just prioritize bleeding everything as much as possible regardless of rupture cp because i thought the damage was the same no matter what cp you use

[balmy condor]

aha

that should be fairly easy to check

[warm parcel]

so basically ignorinc cttc

[slow marsh]

Yeah he wanted to know if it's better to hard cast snd at 4-5 instead of envenom at 5+

[limber lion]

Yeh. I mean in 9.0 we just stopped casting SnD altogether in 4 targets, so it probably just flat out loses.

But after doing a a few keys finishing with Envenom every third finisher feels pretty meh in big packs

[warm parcel]

I felt the same playing ct for first time on sire today

snd just wanted to drop

[slow marsh]

That shouldn't be an issue if you are hitting shiv as it comes up

because you dont CT during shiv anyways

[low girder]

it's a major issue when you hold dmg

which is very frequent

we hold dmg for 20+ seconds

[slow marsh]

Yikes in p1?

[low girder]

yeah

[warm parcel]

p2 ofc

what Im talking at least

[low girder]

p2 is also an issue ye

[warm parcel]

like I go from add to add

[limber lion]

Yeah exactly.

[warm parcel]

rupturing

[low girder]

because even during shiv you still CT

[balmy condor]

@limber lion number is envenom to refresh if targets<=x

[warm parcel]

and snd is at 6s

[balmy condor]

not looking good

[low girder]

that rule is only for ST

[limber lion]

:(

Sadness.

[low girder]

which p2 is not

[limber lion]

Darkness.

Thanks for doing it still babe <3

[balmy condor]

I'll check sustained aoe

to see if that's anything

but usually if it's not worth in dungeonslice

it's not promising for standard aoe

[limber lion]

Yeh. How about just dropping SnD altogether at high target counts?

[balmy condor]

I can check that too

yeah not using cttc on sustained aoe looks even worse

[limber lion]

Dumb SnD

Stop being so good

[balmy condor]

aight

now to check whether snd is worth at all

[echo lark]

[slow marsh]

I have to imagine it's worth an envenom every 20-30 seconds

[balmy condor]

oh it's bad bad

[limber lion]

:(

Stupid SnD

[balmy condor]

it's like -0.8% on 6 targets

holy that's trash

[spice spire]

SnD garbage

[limber lion]

All my homies hate SnD.

[spice spire]

Yo fuck autos

[slow marsh]

Tru I dont think I can go back sub now that I think of it. I have to press snd in raid

[warm parcel]

but maintaining snd rupture and recup was so cool

(dont tell seli)

[balmy condor]

I think sin needs another maint spell

[slow marsh]

I agree actually kinda

[balmy condor]

agreeing with my sarcasm

[slow marsh]

FOr sure

We need another thing to keep up

So that we can complain about not being able to pandemic envenom even more

[spice spire]

Maybe it’ll maintain my sanity during raid

[slow marsh]

is it just me or is venom rush just straight poopoo

[limber lion]

It makes your main generator cost 42 energy instead of 50.

[low girder]

it's pretty bad, but it's not exsang bad

[slow marsh]

my point exactly

[limber lion]

You don't think that's great? >:(

[warm parcel]

recycling more energy for dusk on sludge

[slow marsh]

I mean at least exsang is usable with unrealistic amounts of haste

[low girder]

it's not though

alacrity wins with 126% haste lol

[gloomy fern]

but it scales

[slow marsh]

I didn't play 8.3 so idk what made it good

[low girder]

a combo of a lot of haste and shrouded

[slow marsh]

then yeah whatever that was

[low girder]

and shrouded has no equivalent, and won't unless they for some reason add it to a tier set

[slow marsh]

exsang was used is my point

[warm parcel]

It made garrote deal about 99950% more dmg

Than what it does now

[low girder]

yep

our bleed dmg was held up by powers

now it's not

so exsang is bad

[dawn ivy]

triple shrouded exsang gave us near fire mage burst

R.I.P

[slow marsh]

I just sometimes wonder what the devs have on their boards when it comes to class balance and stuff.

And how backed up they must be

[echo lark]

Shrouded baseline

[slow marsh]

And why they're backed up that much

[warm parcel]

A dart board

[low girder]

well, because they have about 2 people in total on class design

[slow marsh]

I honestly would believe it

[low girder]

there's a lot for them to do

[slow marsh]

If it was just one dude

/dudette

[dawn ivy]

theyd need at least a third if we ever want venom rush to be reworked

[vital haven]

man...

i miss expedient exsang build

[dawn ivy]

the build was destined to die with corruption leaving

[eager river]

anybody know off the top of their head how much total aura% buff sin has gotten since SL launch?

i wanna say it was 28% or something

[balmy condor]

yeah

around there

[nimble tartan]

i know the new smoke bomb ability...it sucks..thas all i can say...

source: trust me..

[potent rune]

smoke bomb was boring i was hoping for mass raid wide cloak of shadows

[drifting cloud]

[warm parcel]

[slender berry]

sure why not make cheat death apply to everyone while were at it

[strange python]

i started inting recently on sire p3 somehow

im not surviving the overlap

[brisk drum]

shadowstep the tank?

my raid gave me bop for that overlap woohoo

[strange python]

yeah i should start doing that

i used to be fine just like playing the knock

but i cant do it so well in my new guild for whatever reason

just not doing a good impression on sire

[astral leaf]

My guild couldn’t give me bop for it so I’d cloak and run into the forbidden sauce and then get knocked into the safe zone

If you get unlucky and still get hit by massacre hope you have cheat up

[rapid stratus]

Does master poisoner for mind numbing work on sire? does it still stack with CoW?

[upper trout]

am I doing something wrong if getting max-1 feels really awkward with DS?

[halcyon zealot]

no it’s just a slower playstyle than vigor that may take some time getting used to, definitely not wrong

[pallid bough]

sees JPC's stream title "Sin for great push"
tunes in and instantly hear "Well I guess the Sin dream is dead"

[nimble tartan]

did u guys know that there is a bug with nightfae and a certain conduit soulbind thatll make u delay your auto by up to 10 seconds

[pale fossil]

RW Cheat Death would actually be pretty hilarious

[stoic needle]

Crimson tempest on all targets

[stoic needle]

Wait what? Lmao

[pallid bough]

ya

[balmy condor]

[pallid bough]

shit was funny

[balmy condor]

James was in here earlier cause he was thinking about playing sin

And then uh

Yeah

Didn’t pan out

[pallid bough]

his title said that and the first thing I hear when I tuned is "Sin dream dead"

[stoic needle]

Why is it dead

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s not outlaw

[pallid bough]

^

[stoic needle]

There's gotta be more of a reason than that

[balmy condor]

well

the reason I guess is that he thinks outlaw is better

however that may be

[granite thistle]

Better for what

Being a pirate?

Gottem

[gloomy knoll]

just keys

in general

give sin / sub gouge

[loud trench]

so does anyone else have that crunch moment on the spec when you are building CPs and shiv is coming off CD in 5 seconds and you either wait for the window or envemon and then build with nothing pooled?

is it worth it to just sit and pool during that time or is it a dps loss not getting another envenom outside the window

assuming bleeds are u

up*

[nimble tartan]

well the idea of pooling is to maximize inside shiv envenoms which are more valuable than outside

[tulip nacelle]

pooling is good you just have to not overcap energy

[nimble tartan]

this missing envenom scenario maybe only a thing if boss dies within that moment

[loud trench]

okay so if im pooling but not overcapping thats fine

[nimble tartan]

right

[loud trench]

okay cool

[tulip nacelle]

yea you don't lose anyhing unless you're energy capped

[loud trench]

second question, does anyone have a WA to track the window? i get to my 2 envenoms and then have been kinda yolo, do i rupture to re apply or am i inside my window and should envenom

[strange python]

Hey is Necrolord also very good for Assa/outlaw m+?

[limber swallow]

yes

[balmy condor]

necro is the go to

generally

[amber mountain]

I usually try to "rupture, garrote, mutilate, vendetta, shiv" to open the window, then I'm clear to mut/blindside to build ~4 points to envenom and get 3 in the window that way

it keeps my rupture and garrote up for the whole window so I don't ahve to think about it

if i fumble that set-up, or the timing isn't quite right, YOLO it is

[loud trench]

okay thanks

[prime narwhal]

Should I line up skulker's wing with vendetta or use it on cooldown?

[mellow hornet]

Getting back into WoW for 9.1, wondering which covenant blends well the best with assassionation? I've heard it's Venthyr, but have seen Necrolord too

[stoic needle]

On cd

[stoic needle]

Venthyr and necro are both good, necro is more well rounded, not far behind in st and far ahead in aoe

[mellow hornet]

Thank you!

[wise fiber]

So. any quick advice on sludge mythic?

[amber mountain]

stabby stabby

or do you want less quick than that?

[wise fiber]

thats it! thank you

[amber mountain]

You are very welcome!

[strange python]

sadge

[manic pebble]

!ks

!rotation

[halcyon zealot]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

hold every other shiv for a pillar

[halcyon zealot]

also, !ks is an outlaw conmand

[manic pebble]

ty

[balmy condor]

should be shiv on pull, shiv, pillar shiv, shiv, pillar shiv, shiv, pillar shiv

[halcyon zealot]

np

[balmy condor]

also make sure to vanish/vend early on pull, like 3 seconds in

or else it won't line up for the second pillar

[wise fiber]

ty. thats actually a pretty neat advice.

[halcyon zealot]

yeah when i was progging sludge i pretty much just would mut > snd > vend > etc, you shiv pretty quick too, then it should be back up for first chain slam, then come up as boss is hitting pillar

[wise fiber]

i see on WL we ust EP and Vigor?

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's more burst

[halcyon zealot]

more finishers in amp periods

[wise fiber]

Ty

[odd hazel]

phew, 4 15s down 4 to go.

im not lookign forward to doing a 15 ToP

[stoic needle]

top is ezclap

one of the best sin dungeons

[hollow river]

hey should i run CT on Lady?

[dark light]

Zoldyck craft on legs or feet?

[balmy condor]

you can, but usually not, no

[balmy condor]

legs

[dark light]

ty sir

[balmy condor]

feet for 9.1 though if you're killing kel on mythic

[stoic needle]

well

ackshually

[dark light]

who knows probably just a rat alt

[stoic needle]

they changed all of the raid gear to only have 1 domination socket

so if the cap stays at 5 gems you won't want your legendary in a slot that could have a domination socket

[balmy condor]

oh yikes

[stoic needle]

so i'd just say who the fuck knows

at this point

[balmy condor]

blizz changes

[dark light]

wait wait slots drop the socket

[stoic needle]

dashing scoundrel cape could be bis if they keep the cap at 5

[dark light]

what*

[stoic needle]

head, chest, shoulders, gloves, boots

[dark light]

kk

[stoic needle]

if there's no way to add domination sockets to legendaries i mean

so basically

[balmy condor]

I'm starting to really dislike the socket nonsense

and I haven't even paid attention to any of it

[dark light]

inbefore fire mage can abuse the shit out of it and somehow stay top 5 raid class xd

[stoic needle]

it's annoying because they won't just give the full details about it

so it leaves everyone guessing

if they do it wrong everyone could have to recraft their legendaries across most specs in the game

which would be a huge shitstorm

[last flume]

Do we still run the 30% poison and bleed damage on tyran week?

[balmy condor]

yes

[last flume]

Cool. As well as crimson tempest?

[balmy condor]

yes

[orchid valley]

Would zoldyk legs be bis for most cases if socket stuff goes live?

[dark light]

raid drops 252 crit/vers legs off KT so

[orchid valley]

ah well shit

actually critvers is meh

[dark light]

but feet has socket stuff so

[orchid valley]

ya talking instead of dashing cape

cuz fuck dashing and fuck cape

[dark light]

sorry those legs are 259, 252 are crit/haste

[indigo totem]

I wouldn't make any covenant changes till after a few weeks from 9.1 going live, don't start with theoretical Bis while they're tuning.

[odd hazel]

i mean, if we go by what we have now. apparently a lot of fights arent ST

necro feelscraft ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Sin bad

reroll now

[kind turtle]

what % haste is ideal for Assa?

[indigo totem]

@odd hazel meh I play both yarr and mut as vamp, no complaints

[kind turtle]

or i guess ideal baseline

[odd hazel]

there is no ideal haste %

some people here have 15% haste some have 23%

[balmy condor]

the ideal haste % is a secret

we actually hold it for ourselves

as a well guarded treasure

only few may ever reach

[odd hazel]

yeah, realistcally you can play what ever and do fine. just memein

[balmy condor]

we use it to inflate our own parses

like a shadowy cabal

rigging the sims to cover our tracks

[kind turtle]

lol ok i'll reword my question. Is it best to max as much haste as you can? or is there a point where enough is enough

[indigo totem]

Doesn't really matter unless you're CE

[odd hazel]

#SimYourSElf

[balmy condor]

we don't hard stack any one stat

that's not how stats work

[kind turtle]

omg nvm lol

[odd hazel]

i mean

thats the answer to your question

no matter hwo you word it

[balmy condor]

getting as much as haste as possible is not a good idea

getting as much crit as possible is not a good idea

balancing the two isn't really the best idea either

you literally just sim

[indigo totem]

I like +20% but I only do AOTC

[kind turtle]

thank you @indigo totem

[odd hazel]

i mean

[balmy condor]

[odd hazel]

i answered that

[balmy condor]

how is that an answer

[odd hazel]

some have 15% some have 23%

literally sim your self

to find the best for YOU

[hollow river]

based

[indigo totem]

Like they said, find what's comfy for the content you're progressing on

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[balmy condor]

need a drake meme in here

simming yourself? nah

random % from 1 dude? hell yeah

[odd hazel]

ask whispyr questions but follow someone elses answer

[kind turtle]

I was just looking for a number lol

[balmy condor]

yes

[odd hazel]

i gave you a number my guy

[balmy condor]

and that's the problem

the problem is you're looking for a number

when you shouldn't be

stats don't work like that

[odd hazel]

if you go by a certain number thats not exactly true. because gear can lead you to a different %

[indigo totem]

It doesn't matter outside of Ce

[odd hazel]

@limber lion has like 13% haste at 225. i have 23% at 218

[stoic needle]

ce raiders don't care either

[balmy condor]

there isn't a magic number

If I said 18% haste is ideal, would you believe that?

[indigo totem]

And yes, there is no magic #

[hollow river]

higher ilvl(more agility) is better than trying to stack anything

[balmy condor]

if you would believe me that 18% haste is ideal

ask yourself why

[hollow river]

simming is BiS tho

ez

[indigo totem]

@hollow river agreed

[hollow river]

i sim higher with 215ilvl 13% haste/39% mastery/30%crit/5% vers than i sim with 210ilvl and 20%haste

[balmy condor]

dude

insane

[hollow river]

ikr

agility is like 4-1 when compared to ANY secondary stat

WHO KNEW?

[balmy condor]

truly a modern visionary

[indigo totem]

Dude we're not all here for fun and memes, you Sim you, have fun with whatever fits your playstile and progression

[hollow river]

oh i was here for fun i'm sorry i was joking

i didn't know 1agil>3haste until like a month ago so

[indigo totem]

These guys literally spend all day answering the same questions and they deserve a beer imo

[kind turtle]

you have me a range of 10% lol

[hollow river]

yeah they're doing the Lord's work tbh

has to be draining

[indigo totem]

The snake?

[hollow river]

uwot

[indigo totem]

Que??

Thanks, guys. Don't forget to tip your bartenders

[balmy condor]

backstab's a semi-regular, he's just memeing :P

[hollow river]

yeah just blowing off steam after wiping to darkvein for 3 hours

wasn't trying to be an asshole

[odd hazel]

i gave you a range because thats honestly the truth. you may be good at 13% haste, or 25% haste.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow river]

in keys you can run 5% haste and be legit

[odd hazel]

if there really was a %

you think whispyr wouldnt make a pin of it that people wouldnt read any way

[balmy condor]

dude

I'm telling you

shadow cabal

[hollow river]

have you thought about just making a #faq?

[indigo totem]

Not the worst idea, just a matter of updating it. And thanks.

[hollow river]

just curious tbh

people would probably still do the same thing the majority of the time tho

[hazy crater]

You mean like the faq that is already done

[balmy condor]

quite often, but I am but one man, and sadly there are others that don't want to make a channel for it

so I made one in the pins

[hazy crater]

Ah a channel type

[balmy condor]

yeah

I suggested an faq channel similar to the paladin or death knight discord

but I get pushback

so

it is what it is

[carmine dawn]

whispyr are u here

which do you like for keys the most? zoldick, MA, or doomblade

[lean coral]

for mythic council

i just rupture off targets right

i was a warlock last time i did this on mythic

[balmy condor]

zold

[mortal pike]

How's assa feeling ? anyone who's done some ptr testing 👀

[stoic needle]

exactly the same as live

so - good

[dawn ivy]

feels pretty damn good

[balmy condor]

no changes

don't touch it blizz

we're not strong

don't nerf

[cerulean nest]

threw em off the scent, nice

council prog with a random group of 5 players who are swapping in and out every week sucks

we just get everyone comfortable with the fight up to the point we were before, and then start again

not random* just new recruits + guildies whose schedules have them coming and going depending on the week

[balmy condor]

so many guilds struggling on roster boss

[hazy crater]

Worst boss every tier

[gloomy knoll]

trueeeee

[pure sinew]

can you feint destructive impact on sludge

[balmy condor]

yuh

[still dove]

too hardstuck on council to struggle with that particular boss

[cerulean nest]

we started trying NSF this week, actually way nicer

having our healers carry lol

[strange python]

got a 2% wipe on it today and 7 people didnt use 2nd potion

[gusty mirage]

god that'd be so tilting

[balmy condor]

just don't get to 2%

[strange python]

yea 😦

[balmy condor]

that way you can't tilt

[strange python]

tru

[gusty mirage]

don't have that issue, not raiding for the rest of the tier unless I take up one of these 5/10M guilds on their xymox prog

I should just main a tank tbh, it'd be so much easier

[timid cloud]

So what's the verdict on IQD? I've seen some memes back & forth about it.

[balmy condor]

IQD is our second best trinket alongside phial

[lean coral]

well first reclear after first dennis kill and we got upto sludge

[hazy crater]

excellent! Probably a result of great midmaxing

[nimble tartan]

yessir another follower of the midmax way seeing gains in their gameplay

its not a coincidence

[next shale]

Hey im looking at logs, and im trying to figure out - "at x time, how many targets does this rogue have rupture up on" does anyone know how to look at that?

[gloomy knoll]

you can go to casts and it will tell you what mob they rupture

and just manually tally it yourself

only way i know how but might be an easier way

[balmy condor]

yeah I do it like that too

I'm not a giga brain log expressionist

so idk if there's something there

[next shale]

damn, i am lazy :c i dotn wanna do it by hand

[hazy crater]

I guess you could just zoom on that time X and click on rupture damage done

see how many targets it has damaged

well yeah basically if you just check rupture damage done specifically you see different targets its on

like this

[next shale]

hmm alright, so i got it, basically the reason i wanted to check was because im dumping my energy during vendetta way more than the other rogue in my raid and i thought maybe its cause he had more bleeds up, but its not... could someone look and help me figure out what if anythign im doing wrong :/

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GkPFXgpCaBnQf7WJ/#fight=21&type=summary heres the log i was looking specifically at our 3:30 vendettas

[hazy crater]

Im not exactly sure what you mean by dumping more energy than the other rogue

[next shale]

im blue he's red, we have CDs rolling at the same time so id think it should be very similar, but its not and i'm just learning sin so i assume its me that wrong

[gusty mirage]

I mean I can try to go through it but I've never done mythic sire

[next shale]

its ahhh

super fun : )

[gusty mirage]

but just looking at the # of casts, he casts 10 more ruptures than you, 10 more mutilates, 11 more envenoms, and 9 more bone spikes

plus if he's utilizing bonespike better than you he's getting cheaper CPs which could result in him having higher energy overall

[next shale]

ya

[gusty mirage]

this is just at a glance, I won't try to even begin to understand how the fight works because that'd be a disservice to you

[hazy crater]

what is this cursed log

[nimble tartan]

play more aggressive less defensive

[next shale]

the count has do do a lot with me having less xp in the fight so i tend to run away to dodge shit lmao

[nimble tartan]

dont be afraid to cast

[hazy crater]

this rogue is attacking the baleful shadow

[nimble tartan]

ABB always be battlin in melee

[next shale]

ya idk what that one was about lol

[drifting cloud]

do you get spike back from shade

[gusty mirage]

also why did he cast drums?

[nimble tartan]

maybe his movement for massacres is tighter and hes able to dps boss whole time

[next shale]

we have too many melee

[gusty mirage]

[next shale]

so its split 11/9 already, so we cant bring a lut clas s"downstairs LMAO

[gusty mirage]

oh

jesus

[nimble tartan]

u have necro resto sham?

[next shale]

in P3 when its split phase

[drifting cloud]

wait do you have a pala in ranged realm

[nimble tartan]

if u do they can take knockback immunity

on fleshcraft

[drifting cloud]

ok nvm I just counted badly

[nimble tartan]

that wont be a big difference tho the damage is nice but we done pulls with drums too if our luster died

[next shale]

ya, i mostly just wanna check if im fucking anything up super bad thats gonna make my dam better

i know i could CD a debuffed add or w/e but we have so much damage on adds anyway that its not worth - like other rogue only gets 10sec of his vendetta on it so might as well get full value on boss dam

[hazy crater]

I mean the other rogue also does DPS on an add that just disappears when interrupted

so I dont know about him

[golden pebble]

hey guys, i've been trying to midmax my rogue but all my friends keep saying im a shiv on cd meta slave and that poisons are a crutch but they wont elaborate can someone help?

[next shale]

lmao i mean in his defense there is literally nothing else to hit at that point in time

[hazy crater]

there's like 3 other targets

add, remornia maybe denny

[balmy condor]

[hazy crater]

but denathrius is probably teleported away

[balmy condor]

does omr have alt accounts

[next shale]

we're running double monk tank lol everything is ported away and the add dides in 10seconds

[hazy crater]

then he should be doing dmg to remornia same as you

[golden pebble]

idk i ask what they mean but they just keep calling me a shiv monkey and tell me 1v1 target dummy no poisons

[hazy crater]

not the balefull add

[next shale]

okay okay but i came here for help not for you to flame my friend ❤️

[hazy crater]

Well there's nothing really wrong about the energy situation, somehow you used shiv on denathrius after using vendetta on remornia though

Probably just a mistake

[next shale]

i have first kick so i probably vendetta, kick tabbed back but tabbed to the wrong target and hit shiv without looking #feelsbad

[hazy crater]

your first and second garrotes of P2 should go on different targets as well, this log you used both on Remornia

But all in all you dot all adds and put up spikes so nothing huge to improve

at that part of the fight at least

I would also play CT on Denathrius but I know some people want poison bomb

[next shale]

okay, what ive been trying to do goign downstairs is garrot/rupture/SBS remornia then sbs/rupture deni, then sbs rupture the add, then (garrot Danni?) and CD the sword does that sound right?

tbh i'm just not playing CT because i have a hard enough time keeping track of dots (woohoo outlaw main) and we arent missing any kind of add dam

[hazy crater]

Well you dont really need to SBS denathrius again on P2 since the dot is already on, unless you are in gemstone window and you use spike anyway. But yeah that is basically what I did in P2 start as well.

[next shale]

mostly its just to get the CP faster to be able to rupture before i have to hop to the platform

[hazy crater]

yeah its a small thing and doesnt really change things in the grand scheme

[next shale]

idk if thats worth, the other thing i was thinking is that maybe it would be worthwhile to sbs that kick add for the CP and basically insta reset when it dies?

but that also seems super min-maxy and idk

[hazy crater]

I never tried that, not sure if it dies or just disappears

might not just get a charge back if it disappears

[next shale]

oh true

i dont know

[lean coral]

@balmy condor it was you who i was talking to about the dance dodging on council right

[balmy condor]

Yeh I think

[lean coral]

yeah we did it tonight we only sometimes had to move

[balmy condor]

Whack

[lean coral]

so yall just got super unlucky

[balmy condor]

Yeah guess so

Idk how that shit works

I just do the mechanic tbh

[final sky]

do i want to be using poison bomb or crimson tempest in m+?

[gusty mirage]

tempest

[thin trout]

can people that play both outlaw and sin give me some insight on how they approach M+?

[gusty mirage]

sure what are you looking for? Like rotation wise?

[thin trout]

no, more like 'i prefer to play outlaw for dungeon x/y on fortified, because I find x'

atm im just playing outlaw for all the M+ because of the extra range and assassin for all CN bosses except stone legion

[gusty mirage]

I've converted to assassination full time in m+ and raid, because I'm just naturally better at the spec

damage profiles are similar atm, outlaw's a little better, plus gouge alone makes outlaw > assa in m+

[thin trout]

yeah i feel like i'm missing gouge in M+ alot (i've only tried assisin like 5 M+)

[gusty mirage]

yeah gouge is insanely good to have, acrobatic strikes makes life so much easier in a lot of spots

being able to full send CDs because of the crazy amount of CDR

[thin trout]

also feel I can use 6CP kidney shot alot more

[gusty mirage]

just makes outlaw better

[willow eagle]

Assa is not far behind in m+ though so if you're more comfortable playing sin you can do well with it in dungeons.

[gusty mirage]

but I've never been an outlaw player, so I have to work extra hard to do the same damage I do as assa

[thin trout]

I do remember however when i switched from outlaw to assassin on sludefist, my super rng damage due to CDs went up average by like 30-40%

[gusty mirage]

if you're performing well as outlaw in keys, stick to outlaw imo. If deathspike on PTR goes live the way it is, outlaw's going to be easily the best m+ spec

and it won't be close

[thin trout]

deathspike is the necrolord legendary?

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[thin trout]

lemme look that one up

[final star]

Outlaw doing like 15-20k sustain in aoe with it

It's nuts

[gusty mirage]

gives SBS 5 charges, and it hits (2?) additional targets

and right now the damage flurries

[thin trout]

yeah that sounds ridiculous yeah

[gusty mirage]

but you can still do a bunch of damage as assa right now if you want a change 🙂

[shell ivy]

[gusty mirage]

had a fire mage laugh at me for being assassination, then I beat him by 800 dps overall

@warped temple also posts his details at the end of runs in his discord

dude's a pumper

[shell ivy]

I could prob give u my take aswell but from the opposite side, as I am an outlaw main
I’ll always choose outlaw if I wanna push, because it’s the better m+ spec and because I am the most comfortable with
But I’ve been doing lot of sin keys when I was doing chill/helping keys for friends because it’s a really fun spec especially on tyrannical I feel (++++Mist first boss is 🤤🤤)

[gusty mirage]

yeah comfort with a spec is also huge in how you perform

[shell ivy]

I prob enjoy it the most on tyra coz I main sin for raiding so I’m only really comfortable on bosses

[gusty mirage]

I pushed keys as assa in the last 2 seasons of BFA, so it's just something I'm naturally more comfortable with

[shell ivy]

and when it comes to packs I feel I’m always doing smth wrong

[gusty mirage]

it's easy, just dot up everything w/ bleeds and envenom to refresh snd and you're golden

vendetta the prio target and pump envenoms into it w/ shiv

but I suppose you could say the same thing about outlaw, I'm probably just a shitty outlaw rogue in m+

brain literally melts when there's more than 5 mobs on my screen

[shell ivy]

Vendetta u say 😆 I think my last sin dungeon Ive done I have pressed vendetta the same amount as there are bosses

XD as an outlaw brain I cannot use well my 2min cd

[gusty mirage]

yeah that's what I miss about pushing as outlaw

just brainlessly sending CDs on CD because it doesn't matter

lol

get true bearing and a ton of mobs for bone spike? Looking like a 1 min cd now

[shell ivy]

just sad whenever I push mist as outlaw, first boss my assassination heart is crying

[thin trout]

i guess this is a good one, bosses that take increased damage where burst damage would be beneficial is prob the go to for sin

[gusty mirage]

I found that sin was a little bit easier for DOS tyran weeks as well

you didn't necessarily have to save your battle potion for totem phase

as long as you had vendetta up

[shell ivy]

I think I’ve done a sin DOS key but I can’t remember how I played last boss, I do remember however not being sure if I should save vendetta or not, but still killed the totem
Key was most likely 15 ish so I would prob kill it without I guess? Do you actually save vendetta?

[gusty mirage]

I vendetta the broker, then its up by totem phase

but yeah I hold it until totem just to make sure

I've been burned many times as outlaw on that totem phase

[shell ivy]

[shell ivy]

Good to know

[gusty mirage]

but if I'm being 110% real, I'm not exactly the most experience m+ player this season. I've only done some 19s and 18s timed

[shell ivy]

Better than my sin key experience so I’ll take all

[final star]

Assassination very good for top

[vast lance]

Hey guys. Outlaw main spec here. What do you guys favor stat wise? Haste/Mastery/Vers/Crit? Can bleeds even crit?

[compact pumice]

Haste and crit are main stats pretty much, though all stats are fairly close. But you should sim it. Bleeds can crit (since Wrath or something?).

[vast lance]

Hmmm. Maybe I should switch to assa and see. I have like 23% Haste 28% Msstery and 16 for crit and verse

Just for raid though.

[compact pumice]

Try it out. Assa is pretty fun IMO. I never liked outlaw on ST/Cleave since it felt like the spec is so much stronger with 5 targets.

[final sky]

what do i want to use for the level 40 talent row? iron wire, internal bleeding or prey on the weak

[warped sparrow]

hey guys, how big is the difference between zoldyck and doomblade in raids?

[compact pumice]

Up to you tbh. But if you’re using Subterfuge (which you should on stuff like M+) I would recommend Iron Wire. If not then prey on the weak is prob better. Internal bleeding is kinda good in PvP though.

[compact pumice]

Quite big? Doomblade is better for ST, but loses value on AOE. So mythic SLG means Zoldyck for example.

[final sky]

awesome thanks

ive been using master assassin though, what should i do with subterfuge?

like how do i open up

[warped sparrow]

i was using mainly zoldyck for m+ and raiding but now i've crafted doomblade and today is my first mythic raid with it so i am wondering which bosses would be best to use it on... the single target ones are obvious, but what aabout inerva and council for example?

[stoic needle]

You still use doomblade on both of those

There are adds, but damage on them is not important on council and inerva

[warped sparrow]

in mythic plus you start with 3 or 4 garrotes on different mobs and then you procceed like normal

[final sky]

oh ok thats simple

ty

[warped sparrow]

mouse over macros help a lot there

[final sky]

im assuming for st i go garrote - ambush - cheapshot?

[compact pumice]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

Garotte mut snd

You can cheap shot if you need to stop a cast but that's very rare

[final sky]

kk

[stoic needle]

And you don't use ambush without blindside

[final sky]

oh ok

im very new to rogue

[warped sparrow]

love my subterfurge in DoS for the adds before hakkar, triple stun and bye bye 😄

[compact pumice]

And on M+ you want to keep up SND with Envenom for the whole dungeon

[stoic needle]

you know I never thought to cheap shot those

I always felt useless trying to kill those lmao

Guess I should rebind cheap shot..

[warped sparrow]

hehe

[compact pumice]

I would still open with Garrote and use Vanish CS after a little bit though

[final sky]

how do i keep envenom up

its quite hard to do

[stoic needle]

Don't worry about it

The buff I mean

For mythic plus just use it as your SnD is running out, so every 3rd or 4th finisher or so

[final sky]

i manage to keep it up on bosses

[stoic needle]

Think of the buff as a bonus, not something that you actively try to maintain

[final sky]

oki

[stoic needle]

It's more damage to rupture everything

Anything that lives longer than 4 seconds

[final sky]

also do i want to use blindside? currently im using elaborate planing

planning*

[stoic needle]

Only on ST would you use blindside

You don't mutilate unless there are 3 targets or less so blindside isnt very good in m+

[warped sparrow]

yeah thats the best on higher keys ^^ then my good old shammy stuns them again and theyre gone

[stoic needle]

Plus you get plenty of energy from bleeds so the free ambush will actually make you overcap

[warped sparrow]

i find it interesting how deeper stratagem keeps pulling ahead at higher ilvl

in raids

[final sky]

wait if im rarely using mutilate does that mean i wonna be keeping garrote up on as many enemies as possible to get combo points?

[stoic needle]

Yes