assassination

[gusty mirage]

Or just refresh it early and send shiv on cd

[cosmic haven]

when i have 4 CP i do a shiv > rup

[spice spire]

No just rupture at 4

[rocky rain]

Rupture at 4 seems better than shiv -> rup

But I mean if rupture NOW will crop it because we aren't quite at pandemic window yet

[limber lion]

Don't worry, so am I.

[cosmic haven]

and 3 CP > shiv >4 > rupture

is that a thing?

[rocky rain]

No

[limber lion]

Shiv on cooldown, even if you have to rupture during it.

[spice spire]

Rupture at 4 that way you have a delayed GCD use for your shiv windows - and it stops the possibility of overcapping

[limber lion]

You need to plan your ability usage 10s ahead.

[rocky rain]

OK ty ceverion

[spice spire]

At 3 you send the shiv and then rupture

[limber lion]

You still build to 5-6CP with DS

You don't want to apply short ruptures.

[spice spire]

Oh that’s true

[limber lion]

This is correct.

[spice spire]

I’ve been EP/Vigor gaming for a bit

[limber lion]

If you're playing Vigor that is

But for DS it's not.

[spice spire]

So this is all assuming you’re running vigor

[limber lion]

Ye, gotta be specific when everyone is playing different stuff :p

[cosmic haven]

if i remember i heard a guy saying this a few days ago that this was ok

[limber lion]

It is, if you're playing Vigor.

But only then.

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s my bad, ty for catching that Cev I’m a monke sometimes

[cosmic haven]

ye i vigor

[limber lion]

We all are

[spice spire]

So yeah, that plays.

[cosmic haven]

lol

[spice spire]

You use finishers at max -1

So vigor, 4 is fine. Deeper, 5.

[midnight mist]

sludgefist question: should i try to send a finisher before the charge so elaborate planning is already running during the dmg ramp wich mean that I start my burst by building cp into shiv OR should I hold max cp so I can directly start with shiv

[limber lion]

No, you hold with max CP so you can use a finisher when he hits the pillar.

When he hits the pillar, your gcds should be Shiv - Envenom - Muti

[cosmic haven]

can i get a

[limber lion]

You use Vendetta/Flag before he hits the pillar, Shiv/Vanish after he hits the pillar.

[spice spire]

Huge

[cosmic haven]

the droprate on weapons are low as shit

[midnight mist]

okay seems about right thanks

[cosmic haven]

i even ran with 200 ilvl bow on hunter for 2 months even during hc progress

[pale fossil]

How does it change if you're running DS? You still send the Shiv, you just want another builder before you Rupture, right?

[limber lion]

I've had the same 226 weapon for 5 months now.

[limber lion]

Yes.

[gusty mirage]

Are you?

[pale fossil]

Cool. I just got my first 226 weapon yesterday haha

[cosmic haven]

[limber lion]

Maybe not an ancient fossil, but definitely on the older side when compared to most here.

[gusty mirage]

Damn zoomers, where’s my heating pad

[pale fossil]

I feel like WoW skews older, which is a welcome change from my normal competitive community (Smash Ultimate), which skews really young.

I feel ancient.

[limber lion]

I know right. My wrist and fingers are legit hurting and I have a raid in 1.5 hours

[spice spire]

Aren’t you 25 dog?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[gusty mirage]

Injured cev is the only cev that appears human

[cosmic haven]

double liughtless force btw if you only play m+ ?

[spice spire]

You gotta give them fingies a break king

[gusty mirage]

25 with 15 years behind a keyboard is rough

[spice spire]

Nooooo

Sinful rev + lightless

[cosmic haven]

u gotta get that gello thing under your wrists

[limber lion]

Yeh exactly. And being a professional violist/violinist does the job as well

[cosmic haven]

sinful rev + lightless?

[pale fossil]

Try 28 with 15 years curled around a GameCube Controller

[limber lion]

It's pretty common for classical musicians getting finger/wrist pain

[cosmic haven]

which enchant on MH and which on OH?

[grand ridge]

I'm 28 I play wow and osu

[limber lion]

Doesn't matter which is on which, but Sinful and Celestial.

[spice spire]

I can actively crack my wrists and carpals when I pop my fingers. I’m going to die

[gusty mirage]

Guys I did something unethical yesterday. I took a 226 memory of past sins from@someone and it’s only a side grade for me

[cosmic haven]

different answers 😮

[pale fossil]

Sim Dungeon Slice

[grand ridge]

I am pretty sure my hands will stop working before I'm 40

[spice spire]

This is going on your quarterly review

[rocky rain]

Do I generally save shiv for vanish, or vanish for shiv? (this is not a sludgefist pillar question)

[spice spire]

I’d sim it. The main thing is - don’t do two of the same enchant

[cosmic haven]

there are ppl who play this game with their feet so ur still good

[gusty mirage]

I also got a boe and kept it

[grand ridge]

Lol

[limber lion]

Oh you were asking for M+? Lightless is better than Sinful there, but most people don't care enough to swap. Everyone just runs Sinful + Celestial.

[spice spire]

Shiv on CD. If it’s close you can hold

[cosmic haven]

when i sim, the non premium sim doesnt let me sim enchants

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I’d only worry about swapping enchants when you have multiple daggers to use

[cosmic haven]

i only do m+ on the rogue tho

[spice spire]

My lawyers will be contacting your office of ethics shortly

[cosmic haven]

no raids

[limber lion]

You should always have Shiv ready for when you use Vanish.

[cosmic haven]

why btw?

that shiv for vanish

[limber lion]

?

It's more damage

Shiv increases your nature damage

[rocky rain]

So I use shiv on CD, and then save vanish for when shiv is ready

[limber lion]

Vanish increases your critical strike chance

= more damage

[silent fossil]

[cosmic haven]

oh wait, on ST raids you dont use subterfuge i think?

[spice spire]

You do not use subterfuge on ST

[gloomy fern]

u never do

[spice spire]

Master assassin gamers rn

[limber lion]

You should hold Shiv for max 12s before Vendetta comes off cooldown.

And you use all 3 of those together

Vendetta, Shiv, Vanish

[rocky rain]

Got it

[spice spire]

I like subterfuge on anything over 1 though

[gloomy fern]

just no

[rocky rain]

can you (should you) macro vanish and vendetta?

[limber lion]

Definitely not.

[rocky rain]

oh no

vendetta at low energy

[stoic needle]

I prefer MA on 2 target cleave tbh

[rocky rain]

vanish -> enven at high energy

[spice spire]

Subterfuge feels REALLY good on huntsman.

[stoic needle]

Meh

[gusty mirage]

[silent fossil]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tAK1hTG96FR4tHxxdLPqwc

idk man big 14 dps

[limber lion]

You generally use Vendetta a few gcd's before you want to use Vanish.

[gusty mirage]

You want vendetta and vanish to sync as close as possible, esp because of MA

Subterfuge is actually super nice on huntsman. I’m a huge fan

[spice spire]

Quite a few of the top logs use subterfuge on huntsman

Oh you were just being that word, can’t spell toxic without oxi

[limber lion]

I use Subterfuge :)

[gusty mirage]

That was my friend’s PI macro before he had to take a break for work he’d yell “Can’t spell tOXIc without oxi!”

[spice spire]

Oxi really didn’t have a good birthday, he’s teeing off today

[pale fossil]

Wtf it's illegal to give rogues PI

[gusty mirage]

In his defense when I started pvping seriously, I was super toxic

[spice spire]

It’s unethical

[alpine latch]

Everyone is toxic

[gusty mirage]

Listen if you’re a government official and someone bribes you, you don’t turn down the benefits. You just pretend they never happened and move on with your life

[spice spire]

This is true

[gusty mirage]

I never requested PI, it just happened. Except yesterday I yelled at our other disc priest to stop giving it to me on xymox and give it to our DK

[gloomy fern]

why

[spice spire]

Trying to save a gray parse

[silent fossil]

@limber lion i finally beat one of your parses

[limber lion]

Great job! Which one was it?

[gusty mirage]

Because pi + lust + army is so much damage it’s literally hurting the raid

[silent fossil]

sire

[limber lion]

Eyy

[gloomy fern]

how is it hurting

[limber lion]

That used to be a r1 parse as well

[gloomy fern]

xymox is literally free

[gusty mirage]

Because it’s a ridiculous amount of damage

Bruh ain’t nothing free for my guild anymore

Idk if this group can kill heroic sire anymore if I’m being real

[limber lion]

Honestly doubt it.

[alpine latch]

Did too many people quit? or?

[gloomy fern]

i mean i beat dks on xymox unless he gets pi

[limber lion]

SLG and Sire are two beasts.

[gusty mirage]

Also ya boys looking for a new guild, so if someone knows any NA team that wants a halfway decent rogue lmk. Prio goes to Whispyr though

[limber lion]

If the progression is stuck on Council, I don't think you have enough time to spend on progressing SLG/Sire before the tier ends.

[alpine latch]

I'm definitely looking for a progression guild. Not sure I'm good enough for CE though 😦

[gusty mirage]

Oh no chance at it at all. Idk if these guys would’ve been able to kill sludge with how bad we’ve played recently

[vital haven]

we have maybe 2 months left of patch

give or takek

[limber lion]

Yep.

[vital haven]

i think if you are on council you can still maybe make it, maybe the cutoff currently is sludgefist

[rocky rain]

fml I just realised why my sim had no soulbind

I actually have no soulbind for assassin

dps increase inc

[limber lion]

Yeh.

It was around 500 dps increase.

Just make sure to use Heirmir.

[rocky rain]

I didn't realise it was spec specific lol

ooof 200 ilvl well-placed steel

[pale fossil]

Do you need 10/10M to get CE or just to kill the last boss?

[limber lion]

It's not too bad.

[silent fossil]

last boss

[limber lion]

The conduit levels don't actually increase our dps by all that much.

It's like 3 dps.

[pale fossil]

Lol I might get CE as a 4/10M then

[limber lion]

Nice boost

[vital haven]

indeed

[pale fossil]

[vital haven]

lol

[alpine latch]

I'm still waiting to see what my Alliance guild is going to do (it seems like they are turning into an AotC guild and not touching Mythic). If that's the case, I'm full-time Horde. Then I need to decide what I'm doing there. I want to be a Mythic raider, not a 2/10 or 3/10 Mythic raider.

[limber lion]

Shriek Sludge SLG Sire

[rocky rain]

ah ok nice

[silent fossil]

i had 2 sire kills before i killed sludge because i sat myself since i was still outlaw with a 213 weapon

[spice spire]

Boosted animal

[limber lion]

I sat myself for Council.

[spice spire]

Yo fuck council

[limber lion]

Never killed Sire again after our initial kill though

[spice spire]

I’m not looking forward to that crappy boss

[worn pilot]

We have a lock who will be 2/10 mythic when we kill sire

[pale fossil]

I've been on the bench, but a couple big gear upgrades and a weird raid damage profile might let me slip into the main team for Sire. I've only killed the first three bosses haha

[limber lion]

Maybe this guild will do better.

[alpine latch]

How big is your guys raid rosters?

25-30?

[silent fossil]

23 or so

[alpine latch]

Oh wow

[limber lion]

Yep, something like that.

[alpine latch]

We have a 23 man roster and some nights we have like 16 people on for raid.

😦

[spice spire]

I think she said 28 was ours

[alpine latch]

Our tank will quit 3 months in

[pale fossil]

Yeah that's roughly ours, too. We have like 1-2 healer subs, 1 tank sub, 2-3 ranged dps subs, and 2 melee dps subs.

[limber lion]

Ours is 25 currently apparently.

[pale fossil]

Some of the subs overlap, though.

[limber lion]

With everyone having 1 or more alts.

[warm hazel]

Hi Ceverion. Why Vendetta before Shiv plz ?

[limber lion]

Because you want to get the full Shiv window inside of your Vendetta for maximum damage.

[alpine latch]

I haven't killed anything other than Shriek/Huntsman yet. My new Horde guild is 3/10 and only raids one day a week... Not sure how long I'm sticking around though.

[silent fossil]

recruiting a mage if anyone has an alt, US like 3rd best 2 day guild

[limber lion]

Shiv also does pretty good base damage, so it's not wasted.

As you get energy from your Vendetta, you can start pumping on inside of your Shiv instantly.

[warm hazel]

Ty 🙂

[pale fossil]

I have an ilevel 198 mage alt

[spice spire]

Hungering low key kinda sucks especially if like 9 dps are melee

[silent fossil]

our mage swapped DH because our DH is stepping down

he slapped lastnight

[alpine latch]

Their strat makes it brain-dead simple actually. 4 pulls on Inerva and got her down to 45%. I think this guild could be 5/10 by 9.1 IF people fucking show up

We go into a lot of raids with 18 and need to find 2 randoms for Mythic

[silent fossil]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TXqgpYWzN3t82Vwd#boss=-2&difficulty=0&view=rankings big 195 ilvl DH

[spice spire]

Yeah I missed the Inerva kill last week because windows update went shitty.
They took 5 attempts after 20 something wipes the previous week.
We got her down to 9% in a few tries last night (main tank on vacation) so hoping we get into it tomorrow and down her. Xymox is next and that fights just a mechanic check

[gusty mirage]

Yeah there’s nowhere to stand while people are soaking lmao

[spice spire]

What server are you on?

[vital haven]

bruh about inerva

kill time sucks now

big time

[spice spire]

Yeah it does

[vital haven]

why did they have to nerf it

ffs blizz

[gloomy fern]

you dont like 3:40 kill timers?

[spice spire]

Our RL is like “you don’t have to immune the adds anymore” and all I heard was “you can pad harder now”

[alpine latch]

My Alliance is on Burning Legion, Horde is Area 52.

[final star]

[spice spire]

Is the mythic guild the horde guild? I got a homie that I think has kinda wanted to go mythic, my guild is on hiatus until 9.1 (AotC only) so if you needed a fill I could probably help - but you also seem kinda lukewarm in your guild

[spice spire]

Now that’s what I call gaming

[alpine latch]

I'm just new to the guild.

My rogue isn't even a month old

[spice spire]

Ahhh x2

[alpine latch]

The GM is cool, but she's like the only one I've really talked to

Most of the guild is in raid-log mode right now. Only 2-3 people on other than me most nights

[shy dust]

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s mine rn as well - not the mythic group I run with, but my guild

[final star]

gonna use it over the 226 ooze

[gusty mirage]

You’d be shocked to know that’s how most middle-bottom tier guilds are

[alpine latch]

Oh I'm not shocked at all

[final star]

and the 226 skulker's

[gusty mirage]

A lot of people just raid log

[final star]

I left a guild recently cos all they did is raid log

[spice spire]

At least when we were raiding, my guild was always on

[alpine latch]

But it's annoying because WoW is the only game I play so I hate signing in and palying alone

[final star]

and they disbanded 2 days ago

[limber lion]

Most people are just raid logging currently. The content drought affects everyone, not just the bottom or the top of the ladder.

[silent fossil]

we all raid log but 75% of us have raided with each other since MoP lol

[limber lion]

Just gotta be patient and wait for 9.1

[spice spire]

Same, work, S/O, and all that makes it impossible to play two games so I’ll just choose my favorite

[limber lion]

Everyone will be swarming back for the new stuff when the patch drops.

[burnt star]

9.1 gonna have some nice incentive

[gusty mirage]

Yep. It’s why I’ve battled with canceling my sub a lot over the last month or so. Half my m+ group quit the game and now my guild’s done raiding until 9.1

[alpine latch]

I joined my Alliance guild in Vanilla. The GM was a groomsman ... I'm probably leaving them in 9.1

[burnt star]

m+ will be better

also all those gear farming

[alpine latch]

I just need to find a group for m+

I pug fucking everything... I hate it

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion did you copy over a ptr character when you were necro?

[limber lion]

You think I'm smart enough to do that?

[gusty mirage]

Deathspike with gemstones is so much damage it’s actually ridiculous

[limber lion]

I wish.

[spice spire]

I do as well - I really should try for KSM. I couldn’t be arsed for the longest time but now I kinda just want the drive

[limber lion]

Raid testing tomorrow and the day after

And I'm stuck with Venthyr

[gusty mirage]

Yeah idk why they don’t have a vendor that sells renown on ptr

[alpine latch]

So a stupid question, but the SBS leggo

Is that on the initial damage, the dot, or both?

[final star]

now do I want more crit than haste

[gusty mirage]

Or at least a create a character template

[final star]

@limber lion you use IQD right?

[gusty mirage]

What do you mean

The cleave for it?

[limber lion]

Yep

[alpine latch]

yes

Is the cleave for the initial damage?

[gusty mirage]

Yes it cleaves actual spikes

[limber lion]

IQD Venthyr Potion gamers here

[gusty mirage]

So both

[final star]

do I want more crit for IQD during lust

[limber lion]

Yeh

[final star]

[limber lion]

It can be just 1 rating higher

[gusty mirage]

I did a torghast to try out the new system and I was chain pulling with spikes and never fell below 3 charges

[limber lion]

As long as it's higher than haste

[final star]

yeah, I have

577 crit

819 haste

[limber lion]

I think my crit is like 707 and haste 699

[final star]

so I'm a lil higher

[alpine latch]

So do we not just stealth to the final bosses in Torghast now?

[final star]

[alpine latch]

I actually have to clear Torghast like a fucking pleb?

[limber lion]

Yeh, gonna have to swap some things around :p

[gusty mirage]

New system emphasizes full clears

[final star]

okay

swapped neck

fixed

715 crit 672 haste

🙂

[pale fossil]

You're Venthyr right?

[final star]

No

I am necrolord

[limber lion]

Ey

[pale fossil]

I could be wrong on this, but I think the whole "guarantee crit from IQD" thing is only for Venthyr

Otherwise you just want to stack haste

[shy dust]

For necro lord

It seemed whatever

Whenever I simmed it

Didn’t care whether it gave haste or crit

[limber lion]

Ye haste is fine for necro

DFV/Phial a better combo as well

[final star]

Haven't got DFV

[limber lion]

Same same

[final star]

will run sim

see what my best gonna be

hopeful IQD though

[scarlet spade]

Picked up a memory of past sins last night

is this trinket worth running at all?

I currently have skulker/phial at a lower ilvl

[kindred kettle]

how much of my overall dps will potency conduits take up?

mine are ilvl 200

[pale fossil]

Sim it (you can set it with your raid to have a couple of them), but generally it's not awesome.

@scarlet spade

[kindred kettle]

something ive kinda been neglecting

[limber lion]

Compared to 213 or 226?

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aWs8ezr2edVwhaWKJCT3eF

[limber lion]

Like 10 dps.

[final star]

hmm

[limber lion]

You just need the conduit. The level of the conduit is super negligible .

[kindred kettle]

ok good to know. thank you

[limber lion]

The difference between my 213 Lashing Scars (Which is our best conduit in the game) and 226 is 7 dps.

Literally nothing.

[final star]

I think I need a socket for this

then I can use boe ring for outlaw and not change enchants

[limber lion]

Yeh, looks pretty dank

[kindred kettle]

whats outlaw?

😄

[scarlet spade]

^

@pale fossil Ideally what trinkets would you recommend aiming to get.

[pale fossil]

Phial and IQD (if Venthyr) > Dreadfire > Hateful Chain/Skulkers probably?

But you want to just sim whatever you get

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jjAvMgMwHwNGd5jDzGXg7b

Yeah with socket pog

[odd hazel]

im fine with this to be honest, with the extra room that can give sockets

[pale fossil]

IQD is still good if not Venthyr, just not AS good. Shadowgrasp and some others are also good situationally.

[scarlet spade]

Ok thanks im just trying to prioritize which trinkets I should upgrade..I have a decanter as well I picked up that I can upgrade..I was going to drop skulkers for that once I had it upgraded but I will sim it like you suggested.

[pale fossil]

Decanter's solid too, I think.

But yeah, sim it.

[stoic needle]

It's meh

[gusty mirage]

My only irritant is the system seems to revolve around the research tree to consistently farm that. Which is fine when their goal is to actually make us want to do it

[odd hazel]

what do you use to upgrade the tree?

[stoic needle]

I think skulker's is better than decanter

[stoic needle]

Tower knowledge you get from doing torghast

[gusty mirage]

You get a currency at the end of the run

^ what osh said

[odd hazel]

is it farmable like soul ash?

[gusty mirage]

How well you do on the run impacts how much tower knowledge you get

[limber lion]

I delayed it for one gcd because the adds spawn 1 gcd too late if I were to vanish where you'd normally vanish. This way I have the Envenom buff up and get to FoK the adds once during the MA window.

Maybe the galaxybrain tactic would be to just delay Vanish even further to get FoK - CT - FoK inside of it instead for maximum padding, who knows.

But yeh, all of this probably (most likely) makes no difference whatsoever, but it makes my private bits tingle so I do it.

[stoic needle]

But yeah it doesn't have a cap or anything

[gusty mirage]

Yeah you get it for runs, but I haven’t tested to see if you can redo the same wing for it

[odd hazel]

because i will be abusing it and getting everything over with if so

[shadow helm]

whats up GANG

[gusty mirage]

The tree has some cool little perks for torghast

[stoic needle]

Degenerate

[odd hazel]

no glove having ass osh

[stoic needle]

Doomblade shoulder headass

😤

[odd hazel]

Dirty bone spiker using ass

[gusty mirage]

I was on one side and now I can’t be

[odd hazel]

dont worry, im switching soon me thinks lmao

[stoic needle]

Musty vampire

[gusty mirage]

Because I’m a shoulder blader and a boner spiker

[spice spire]

Avdol pfp lookin ass

[odd hazel]

shitty ST having ass

❤️

[odd hazel]

i'll join you soon, just dont know when i want to switch back to necro

[stoic needle]

Boi.

[spice spire]

You had to do it to me :/

[odd hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/boi-mha-my-hero-academia-gif-16057632

[slow marsh]

Speaking of doomblade shoulders, have you guys crafted your zold boots yet

[odd hazel]

BOOTS?!

[slow marsh]

Cev turned me on to it actually

Planning for next tier

[desert inlet]

Because of high ilvl pants in new raid?

[slow marsh]

Yes

[odd hazel]

i'll worry about it then tbh

[slow marsh]

I'm sure ash catch-up makes it irrelevant to plan but I like to think I'm being proactive

[odd hazel]

if i have extra i might make it tbh

can you have 2 leggos in your bags like that?

[slow marsh]

Yeah

I had MA wrist and ring for a minute

In bag

[cerulean nest]

just made zold. do you think it's worth giving it a try on council prog?

[next solar]

no

[stoic needle]

No

[cerulean nest]

lit

[echo cargo]

Waiting on Rogue PTR changes and never seeing them

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-sad-spoof-meme-gif-7499097

[stark heart]

see, waiting for changes is already a mistake

expect nothing, that way you can't get disappointed

[shy dust]

What changes do we even need

[odd hazel]

we are fine tbh

[pale fossil]

Smoke

Bomb

[odd hazel]

prob one of the few classes that dont need it

[echo cargo]

They’ve said twice now, I think, that they’re adding some utility next patch

[stoic needle]

No they haven't

They said that rogue doesn't have much utility

[next solar]

no, they just gutted dks instead of giving rogues a viable rwcd

[stoic needle]

But they didn't say they were specifically going to add stuff to us

[lyric cave]

we need smoke bomb dmg reduction back and rip dks

[solid mica]

What talent set up do ppl use for sire prog?

[raven locust]

I wouldn't expect any utility to be added to Rogues, it just creates a problem for them design wise every class would complain till they got it

[echo geyser]

is there a big difference between Well-placed steel and Sudden fractures on Sludgefist?

[stoic needle]

Bs DS ct

[solid mica]

Devs said they recognize rogues not having much as a problem to address for raid

[pale fossil]

They did bring up smoke bomb unprompted tbf

[stoic needle]

WPS is better because 90% of your damage comes from the pillars

[magic gale]

doomblade is simming 300 dps over zoldyck, but is it still worth using zoldyck for denathrius to get execute in, please tell me whispyr bae

[pale fossil]

But that's tea leaf reading that's not likely to mean anything.

[echo geyser]

yeah its better but is it a lot better

should i go hearthstone

[raven locust]

@solid mica That's just twisting the words they used, they only said they know Rogues don't bring any utility

[echo geyser]

after shriek

[echo cargo]

They didn’t specifically verbatim say “rogues will be getting changes” but on two occasions they’ve mentioned Rogues as the example for no raid utility so it’s not exactly a huge jump

[raven locust]

Plus AMZ got heavily nerfed, basically a buff to every class that brings none

[balmy condor]

It’s questionable tbh

[solid mica]

Which interview? They were pretty clear in the one I watched

[balmy condor]

Zold is higher p3 still I’m pretty sure

[lyric cave]

in chains thiers already couple mechanics where rogue can make the fight easy with cloak also if they bring back damage reduction with smoke bomb we might be the best melee (they also buff Feint )

[balmy condor]

But it’s not like giga more

[raven locust]

Was one a couple weeks ago, I believe you guys are misunderstanding what they are saying as implying Rogues are getting Utility

[pale fossil]

An extra second to Feint is not a material buff though

[magic gale]

ok thanks, based on that ill run doomblade unless we need all extra dps on p3

[raven locust]

When it's more likely utility is just getting toned down

[odd hazel]

unless we get something like AMZ

its pretty pointless still

[raven locust]

I'd personally prefer some party damage buff, not a fan of CD stacking raid DRs

[final star]

Every time I see no rogue changes

I'm happy

That's bis

No changes is a good thing

[raven locust]

Assassination is in a pretty strong spot

Only thing I want is Crimson Tempest Baseline and an eventually pass over our talents to spice them up

[lyric cave]

https://youtu.be/0-mhFvnPIIY?t=1969 dev mentions smoke bomb

[odd hazel]

CT baseline would be nuts tbh

[lyric cave]

[stoic needle]

it would be totally fair and balanced

[vital haven]

thats actually the second time

[odd hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[vital haven]

ion mentioned smoke bomb as well

iirc

[lyric cave]

hopefully we get it back

[raven locust]

Smoke Bomb has been the only raid utility Rogues have had, It's probably down to them using it as an example more so than it returning

[vital haven]

agreed

i dont think we are getting smoke bomb back but i think the devs are using that as an example of some sort of utility that rogues might get at some point in the future

[lyric cave]

keep in mind they have to do something about it b/c as right now u probably take 5 melee (2dks, Monk/DH, War, 1 spot )

if u dont have a monk or dh or war tank rip

[limber lion]

100% is

[echo geyser]

do u pop vendetta on pull on sludge?

then on every pillar?

or just save for only pillars

[vital haven]

on pull, 2nd pillar, 4th pillar

[echo geyser]

ty

[lost mist]

vend pull, 2nd and 4th, each one with a pre shiv (1 shiv pillar - 1 no pillar - 1 pillar), try to use 2 on use trinks (dreadfire+past sins is what i use)

try to get the timing on your dots in order to no renew them on vulnerable phase

[echo geyser]

yeah i think i tried to get 2 shivs outside

was horrible

and refreshing dots inside pillar + shiv garbage

[limpid crypt]

As necro sin, do I use SBS within MA(talent) windows, or as an "emergency" generator if I need CP's to get another envenom in shiv window etc?

[hollow river]

Depends on what you’re doing

[limpid crypt]

Like in a pure ST rotation, when do I use SBS

[pale fossil]

Isn't it more important to line up one of your Vendettas with Lust? So if you're going to Lust first or third pillar, you wouldn't Vendetta on pull.

[hollow river]

Yeah

[hollow river]

Use it from stealth, then SnD. Then the rest of your opener.

[pale fossil]

Just use it to avoid overcapping, and then dump them all when you get Gemstone up.

[hollow river]

Other than that yeah you just use it for CP but doesn’t have to only be for emergency CP

And yeah gemstone

[limpid crypt]

So best value is gained from using in MA/Gemstone window?

[hollow river]

Pretty much. Idk if you use it after vanish though tbh just know you use it as first gcd in opener.

[stoic needle]

Don't use sbs during the ma window

Only once on the pull out of stealth, during shiv with emeni, or during gemstones with heirmir

[limpid crypt]

Okay, thanks!

[hallow spear]

Is duskwalkers any fun to play with? Looking to burn my ash

[limber lion]

Not really.

It messes up your vanish/vendetta sync, so it's really meh

Dashing Scoundrel is apparently pretty sick.

[hallow spear]

the energy regen one right?

[limber lion]

Yep

Very slightly worse than Doomblade

[fathom swift]

very cool that you cant use full domination gems and also doomblade cause of the slots its on next patch

[echo geyser]

anyone have tips for sire mythic?

if u could have ur cds anywhere

how would u play

[fathom swift]

are u cding first or second add

in p2

[echo geyser]

whatever is the best

i dont have job in my guild

whatd u do?

[fathom swift]

i mean thats a question for ur rl not for us

[pale fossil]

Do we know yet how we're going to handle this? I had the same reaction and it's mad annoying haha

[limber lion]

All cooldowns on P1 once, Flag twice
Vendetta+Flag on Baron, Flag on Sire
Flag+Vend twice in P3

[echo geyser]

yeah but it doesnt matter

[fathom swift]

it does matter

[echo geyser]

its reclear we kill no matter my cds im just new on spec

[fathom swift]

you need to kill the p2 adds in a pretty tight window

o ok

[pale fossil]

I do basically what Ceverion said, except I save Vendetta for the second named mob just because that's where our raid needs it to finish them all off.

[limber lion]

Yes, exactly like I said then lol

[pale fossil]

And I'm Necro so no Flag haha

[limber lion]

Baron is the second add.

[pale fossil]

Oh

[fathom swift]

you can vendetta twice in p1

and have it for baron

[echo geyser]

doing that lines up lust in p3 for vendetta?

[pale fossil]

Yeah, but most groups push it too fast in P1 for it to make sense.

[echo geyser]

if u cd 2nd add?

[pale fossil]

At least ours does.

[limber lion]

Yeah don't do that

[fathom swift]

?

[limber lion]

We already stop dps after the third cleansing pain.

[pale fossil]

Yeah

[rocky rain]

2 mins to raid emergency question. should i be using oil or stone?

[pale fossil]

Oil

[echo geyser]

1 of each

[limber lion]

I don't think you need to blast all cds when you have to sit for 10s+ anyways

[limber lion]

Always stones.

[fathom swift]

we usually have buyers so dont have to stop that early 🙂

[echo geyser]

i was popping vendetta on cd apart from p1

[pale fossil]

Homie that is not information you gave us initially LOL

[fathom swift]

or gearing peoples alts

[echo geyser]

but it kinda fucked with lust timing in p3

[limber lion]

Fair enough

[rocky rain]

ty

[limber lion]

We push even with buyers.

[fathom swift]

but theres no downside to using the ability

[pale fossil]

My group is progging rn

[fathom swift]

p3 starts at about 6.40, after you use on duskhollow you needa hold it until p3

[simple wadi]

A lot of groups do melee lust ~8:40 so you can have everything back up for the lust if you vendetta early in p3

[echo geyser]

if ur using on 2nd add anyways dont u just pop vendetta twice in p1?

[fathom swift]

yes

[echo geyser]

just for fun

to look cool u know

[fathom swift]

theres no downside

[echo geyser]

rather stay afk inside of vendetta than without i guess

[simple wadi]

real men/women vendetta an echo

[fathom swift]

do you know when your p3 lust is?

[echo geyser]

they said its like 1.4 or 1.5min into p3

[fathom swift]

unlucky

wont get one with vendetta

unless you meant 1.5 = 1.50 not 1.30

[echo geyser]

1.3 i guess

im not sure

ill put a timer

[alpine latch]

Why the fuck are we using decimals when dealing with time...

[echo geyser]

i just copied what they wrote in chat

lol

[vital haven]

usually from what ive experienced

[alpine latch]

There's literally a system for time. Respect it

[vital haven]

if you use double vendetta in phase 2 the vendetta you get in phase 3 will time up with lust in phase 3

[echo geyser]

looks like at 8:15 if i read this log correctly

idk if that says anything

[stoic needle]

yes you can, there's 5 slots max and more than 5 slots available across all the possible pieces that domination gems are on

helm has 2, chest has 2/3, gloves and shoulders each have 1

[fathom swift]

i have been told they changed all pieces to have 1 slot each yesterday

so no

[alpine latch]

Everything on wowhead shows 1 socket now versus 2-3 like it did previously

So I'm assuming that they were infact removed

[stoic needle]

i just went to look there's 1 each on head, shoulders, chest, gloves, boots

that's pretty dogshit

[alpine latch]

It has the potential to completely change what the "best" legendary is for every spec

Depending on how strong the gems are

[stoic needle]

i have a feeling they will lower the cap of gems

[alpine latch]

I hope we can change the gems

[stoic needle]

dashing scoundrel cape

[gusty mirage]

[stoic needle]

finality cape too

[amber mountain]

lol

[stoic needle]

obedience cape

[gusty mirage]

my mans osh having an existential crisis for things on PTR

[alpine latch]

lol

[stoic needle]

legendaries that can go on belts, legs, and necklaces seem to be the only thing safe

[amber mountain]

My only crisis is the note about Rogue legendaries and then nothing in the notes or data mine

[gusty mirage]

ah yes the mysterious "rogue legendary updates on PTR" of May 18th

[stoic needle]

there seem to be a lot of specs that get cucked by this change

just looking at the legendary powers

[amber mountain]

Interesting word out of context... cucked up? They get to watch the other legendaries have their way with their specs?

[alpine latch]

Well shit.. If gems are 1% DPS increases over not having them, Dashing Scoundrel becomes our best ST leggo

[gusty mirage]

they LOVE to watch the other leggos have their way

[amber mountain]

<.<

.>

we broke the channel oxi

and for some reason dictionary.com has a big jump in lookups for "cucked"

[alpine latch]

It would be so much better if we could add up to 5 shards to our gear than specific items being the only items that have sockets

[amber mountain]

I think the extra sockets on gear previously was to account for the lack of sockets on leggos, but why not just give us a socket we can add to them?

[alpine latch]

Depending on how strong the gems are, it can completely change what leggo a lot of specs use

[amber mountain]

Yep

[alpine latch]

DS would probably become ours

[gusty mirage]

I blame @stoic needle its his fault

[alpine latch]

(I say that not knowing what spot the 9.1 leggos take up)

[stoic needle]

sin won't use any of them

[alpine latch]

We'd use the Necrolord one, wouldn't we?

[stoic needle]

oh yeah

[gusty mirage]

maybe in m+

[alpine latch]

That seems strong AF

[stoic needle]

that would go on bracer

instead of gloves

[alpine latch]

We'll probably swap to DS for ST and the Necrolord one for m+

[amber mountain]

As a Venthyr... that's tricky

[stoic needle]

if 5 gems stays the cap then we go dashing cape

[alpine latch]

We all make mistakes

I'm boosting my Zoldyck to r4 tonight and then stocking up for 9.1

[amber mountain]

I followed my heart, not my head... I was 100% planning to go Necro before I found so much joy in the characters in Revendreth

[alpine latch]

Honestly I love all of the SL zones

Bastion is probably the "worst", but it's definitely not bad.

[amber mountain]

oh i definitely agree

[quaint carbon]

Are agility gems worth it or is it better to put haste or one of the other secondary stats ?

[amber mountain]

Bastion and the boring angles are the worst

secondary stats give more on gems

[royal lantern]

sim 🙂

[stoic needle]

Sometimes agi gems sim slightly higher

[quaint carbon]

Mmhm ok i should try to go sim then

[alpine latch]

Is there any mention of what the "new" legendary powers for rogues are?

[royal lantern]

its rogue pal

well will see them 2weeks before 9.1 release lmao

[alpine latch]

lol

I just thought it was odd that they were referenced but nothing is on wowhead

When Mages are

[spice spire]

That’s a weird way to say a month after

[alpine latch]

Maybe in 9.1.5 I'll know what they are

[slow marsh]

we will prolly find out next xpac

[plain onyx]

@balmy condor a link to your weakauras please ?

[balmy condor]

https://wago.io/p/Whispyr

[silent stratus]

Is it surprising that memory of past sims sims better than skulker for assa?

[balmy condor]

same ilvl?

they're pretty close tbh, so it's not too crazy

if there's an ilvl difference that would be warranted though

[floral pollen]

Right now I think about going necro to play some sin/healer games in 2v2 or 3v3... How easy it is to swap regularly venthyr / necro? Is this possible (e. g. Once a day)?

[untold nest]

U can swap once every week

Except the first time, it will be 2 weeks

[balmy condor]

other way around

the first time you swap to a different covenant you can do it for free instantly

every time after that has the 2 week quest chain

[alpine latch]

It's not instant

You still have to do the "proving your worth" shit

[balmy condor]

not the first time

[alpine latch]

The only difference is the 2nd time and after, you have to do that twice

I mean, I had to do it

[pale fossil]

The swap backs take two weeks? Sheesh.

[balmy condor]

if you've never been a covenant, you just talk to the dude and swap

[alpine latch]

So if you don't have to do that, then they removed it since last week

[balmy condor]

and that's the end of it

[alpine latch]

Yeah, that wasn't my experience last week on my Alliance warlock

It's ONLY been Night Fae, nothing else

And I had to do the "Prove Your Worth" shit

I only had to do it once, not twice

But I still had to do it

[pale fossil]

I swapped from NF to Necro the week before last and I got Necro instantly, minus campaign and shit obviously.

[silent stratus]

yes same ilvl

[desert inlet]

[stoic needle]

Skulker's isn't very good for sin

[limber swallow]

@alpine latch did you level that character through Threads of Fate?

[alpine latch]

Nope

[stoic needle]

We don't stack vers like sub and outlaw, and we don't have bte or ghostly to boost it's damage

[alpine latch]

My warlock was my first 60

[limber swallow]

weird. I switched to Necrolord last monday and it was immediate. I had never been anything but Venthyr.

[fathom swift]

you dont have to do it, you can swap insta

[balmy condor]

I mean it's not as good as phial/IQD/vessel/chain, but skulkers is still quite good

[stoic needle]

It's average

[balmy condor]

average would be like darkmoon deck

that's an average trinket

skulk is way above average

or like

battery

[stoic needle]

Darkmoon deck is also 200 ilvl.. of the 226 trinkets, it's the worst raid trinket, and average among the m+ Trinkets

[balmy condor]

battery is average

[stoic needle]

That's why I say it's average

[limber lion]

Still better than the 233 Herald.

[balmy condor]

skulkers is worse than herald? worse than sheet music?

[pale fossil]

Sheet Music

[thorny pond]

Who tf is herald

[balmy condor]

super weird to call something bad when it's like a top 5 trinket

but you do you man

[stoic needle]

Oh I don't even consider those trinkets, those are eternal crystals

[lean coral]

isnt that the caster dennis trinket

[alpine latch]

I mean, Herald doesn't get you killed when it procs and sends you through the fucking mirror into Hand of Destruction

[stoic needle]

I didn't say it was bad

[alpine latch]

Because Sire was too close to themirror

[strange python]

Oshosi has some “fried takes” sometimes

[stoic needle]

Ok corndogs

Your only contribution in this discord is to flame me every few weeks

Get a hobby my dude

[balmy condor]

I mean

[limber lion]

There's like 10 really awful M+ trinkets.

The only m+ trinkets that would be considered "better" as in raw, st dps

Are Phial and Totem

Skulker's beats everything else.

[gusty mirage]

[thorny pond]

Thank you. Just roll 226 iqd and phial

Or buy a 233 dreadfire

[stoic needle]

My statement was comparing skulker's between the rogue specs, where the other 2 have things about their kit and gearing priorities that make it slightly more attractive

[balmy condor]

every day you become more relatable @strange python

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Now that’s toxic

[balmy condor]

flaming osh for shit takes has become a hobby

[hallow salmon]

is there a way to add getting PI'd to my raidbot input?

[alpine latch]

If flaming is a hobby, that's a good sign that you need to get up and take a walk around the block.

[limber lion]

Yes. :)

[lean coral]

you're in a guild where they give rogues PI?

[hallow salmon]

do you have the line or command for me D:

@limber lion

[balmy condor]

external_buffs.power_infusion=x

x being time in seconds

[balmy condor]

flaming isn't a hobby, flaming osh specifically is a hobby

[stoic needle]

[alpine latch]

Are you 11 and afraid of telling them that they make your private area feel funny? Because if not, that shit is weird

[limber lion]

You can add several actions to the line Whispyr sent by adding more x's and separating them with /. So =5/125/255 for example.

[balmy condor]

I'm allowed to not like people who say dumb shit

[alpine latch]

Then mute them and move on like an adult

[limber lion]

Discord makes it pretty difficult, ngl.

[balmy condor]

I wish it were that easy, but he's here quite often

[thorny pond]

Love the arm chair psychologists. Like Osh is fun and it's in good humor

[gusty mirage]

I feel like you're taking this a little too seriously

[heavy basalt]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

yeah also that though

[thorny pond]

Some of you are straight toxic for suggesting people need to do x to be better

[balmy condor]

?

like what

[gusty mirage]

If you press your buttons harder you'll do more damage, shitter

[thorny pond]

Like that dude who told you to take a walk

[balmy condor]

I mean I don't mind

[alpine latch]

It's toxic to tell someone that when flaming others becomes a hobby you should take a break from the internet?

The fuck?

[balmy condor]

palmer's got a point, toxic is bad

[stoic needle]

Typical toxic ravenholdt CFs

[alpine latch]

lol

[stoic needle]

Smh my head

[gusty mirage]

don't you shake your head your head at me sir

[alpine latch]

Taking a break from the internet is great advice regardless of what you're doing.

[balmy condor]

there's a reasonable discussion to be had about what is acceptable and what isn't

and if it was as easy as just blocking osh and pretending he doesn't exist

that would've been done a while ago

but it ain't that easy

[alpine latch]

Nothing Osh said was wrong though

[balmy condor]

then you haven't been around enough

[alpine latch]

I'm saying in the discussion that just happened

[stoic needle]

Whispyr just hates me because I like mastery

[hallow salmon]

aaah where do I need to put the PI line

[alpine latch]

Nothing he said was incorrect

[hallow salmon]

into the custom thing?

[balmy condor]

advanced sim

[hallow salmon]

and then I send it before my normal /simc input?

[limber lion]

Just slap your /simc string to Advanced Sim and put the external buff line below the string.

[hallow salmon]

oh okay

thanks so much

[balmy condor]

I mean "skulker's isn't very good for sin" is already wrong, that's the very first thing that started the whole argument. Then "it's the worst raid trinket" is also wrong, "average among the m+ trinkets" is also wrong. Then the pivot into "yeah but I was comparing to the other specs which buff trinkets", which no one was talking about, the comparison was two specific trinkets, on one spec

[heavy basalt]

so this might not be a good question. is this an addon or is it stock

[balmy condor]

you can argue that it's not the most wrong thing ever said by a human

[alpine latch]

I mean, Skulker's isn't very good for Sin

[balmy condor]

it is though

[limber lion]

The hp/energy bars?

[alpine latch]

It isn't, though.

[hallow salmon]

aaaahhh but now the sim stopped using potions and food

anger

how fux

fix

[strange python]

This is hilarious

[heavy basalt]

yes

[alpine latch]

It's okay, it's not "good"

[limber lion]

It's part of the default WoW ui. It's called "personal resource display"

[balmy condor]

so a top 5 trinket

[limber lion]

Just turn that off.

[balmy condor]

is "okay"

[alpine latch]

Skulker's isn't top 5

[heavy basalt]

ok tyty

[limber lion]

It... is?

[alpine latch]

It loses to Phial, IQD, Dreadfire, Hateful, and Totem

[balmy condor]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[gusty mirage]

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/trinkets/1t-t26-assassination

[alpine latch]

How the fuck is it top 5 when 5 trinkets beat it?

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

So it's top 6?

[balmy condor]

aight fine

it's top 6

fucking sue me

[alpine latch]

Great, it's top 6.

So, now that we've established that it's not top 5

[gusty mirage]

it's only 6th behind a stone legion heraldry with 2 allies running it in your party

[alpine latch]

Comparatively on equal item level

[stoic needle]

This is my second comment after the first statement, I was comparing it between the specs from the beginning

[hazy crater]

So definitely not a good trinket only top 6

[alpine latch]

It's not that great.

[gusty mirage]

huh

by that metric, all trinkets suck for assa except a 226 phial

[balmy condor]

breaking news, if it's not phial or IQD or chain, throw it into the trash

[limber lion]

Yeh. Phial, Dreadfire and IQD are "good", everything else is average.

[odd hazel]

i mean

[alpine latch]

You're comparing a game where if something is 0.1% worse, people treat it likes it's unplayable

[pale fossil]

This is a really weird semantics-based argument.

[gusty mirage]

listen I'm the #1 supporter of shitting on skulkers. I despise the fuck out of that trinket. But it's still a good trinket

[odd hazel]

i had a 213 skulkers and it wasnt awful

[balmy condor]

that's literally what you're doing

[alpine latch]

It's not awful at all

It's just not overall amazing

It's an okay trinket

you can use the term "good" if you want. It's slightly above average

[limber lion]

Above average?

It was average 5 minutes ago.

Do me a favor and open up bloodmallet

And look at the sheer amount of trinkets

[gusty mirage]

I mean a 226 skulkers is literally right outside the top tier trinkets

[limber lion]

And look at where Skulkers is located.

[stoic needle]

All I said was "skulker's isn't VERY GOOD for sin"

Because we don't have external factors to boost it's effectiveness like the other two specs

[gusty mirage]

average is a flayedwing or the battery

[alpine latch]

Look at how many trinkets stop at item level 200 and are STRONGER than it at item level 200

[balmy condor]

it really is, I don't get how people can look at a list of like 30 trinkets and then go "well it's not in the top 5, so it's meh"

[stoic needle]

And it's not VERY GOOD if your definition of very good is like bis trinkets

[gusty mirage]

huh

why does that matter?

are you playing 200 ilvl trinkets?

[stoic needle]

But if you wanna argue about semantics go off chief

[alpine latch]

I mean, if we're comparing only 226

Then it's shit

[limber lion]

"Average".

[strange python]

Even if it’s too 6 it’s still better than average, right?

[alpine latch]

The entire conversation was about equal item levels

[limber lion]

Yes, by a lot.

[spice spire]

What the fuck happened

[gusty mirage]

its better than a 226 memory, 226 ooze, 226 macabre, 233stone legion with 1 ally, 233 stone legion with no allies

idk how that makes it average

or trash

but yeah

you do you king

[fathom swift]

half that list are not dps trinkets

[stoic needle]

Skulker's wing is top 3 or top 4 for outlaw and sub, and top 6 for sin, that was my whole point from the outset

[alpine latch]

You're comparing about 25 trinkets that have Agi on it and nothing else, then talking about where it stands

Get the fuck out of here

Remove ALL of the non-DPS trinkets from that list

[balmy condor]

no one asked or was talking about that though

[alpine latch]

And it's slightly above average

[odd hazel]

we talk about ALL trinkets though.

[stoic needle]

I was talking about it?

[limber lion]

Alright

Let's look at Herodamage

[gusty mirage]

there's literally 19 DPS trinkets above the blood-spattered scale

[balmy condor]

true, you right

[gusty mirage]

but okay

[limber lion]

They don't list trash trinkets

[pale fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/failure-to-communicate-gif-11850692

[limber lion]

These are all dps trinkets

[alpine latch]

I mean, no

Master Duelist's Chit tops out at like 163

But okay fine

[hazy crater]

Seems average

[balmy condor]

I can't anymore lmao

[gusty mirage]

there's literally 5 trinkets that perform better than it, and one of those requires 2 other people in your group to have the same trinket

[balmy condor]

use whatever trinkets you want

[gusty mirage]

and that's average

idk what to tell you man

[slow marsh]

wait damn i missed the afternoon flame

[balmy condor]

if you're happy using your trinkets

and you're having fun playing a video game

[pale fossil]

Shadowgrasp Supremacy

[balmy condor]

then that's all you need

and I support you

[gusty mirage]

that's all I see on this list too

[limber swallow]

Whispyr said I could use the puppy crate as my trinkets.

[gusty mirage]

I'd be offended if you didn't

[slow marsh]

Can confirm my shadowgrasp does just a hair less than phial

[balmy condor]

I guess we just have different definitions of average, good, decent, and bad

and that's fine

[gusty mirage]

I literally had my 2 bis trinkets and I still took memory of sins from someone yesterday, holy shit I'm toxic

[pale fossil]

Reported to Blizzard Gameing

[strange python]

Lol

[odd hazel]

imagine having information shown to you thats correct and just like

"nah fam, thats average"

[balmy condor]

different perspective I guess

[slow marsh]

I mean

[wind dune]

226 phial and shadowgrasp gang

[hazy crater]

Oh that was massive sarcasm from my part

[spice spire]

What the fuck happened. I did my usual “haha toxic” about the normal pseudo-bullying of osh then all hell breaks loose

Smh

[slow marsh]

when you consider that SLH and under are pretty trash trinkets (and some agree that SLH is also trash cough) then yeah its average

[odd hazel]

as much as i bully osh for not having 226 gloves, hes a cool dude

[balmy condor]

it was pseudo a month ago :)

now I'm just mad :)

[gusty mirage]

uh oh whispyr's using the text smiley face

[slow marsh]

I think people just think that skulkers is pretty decent because it's probably the easiest to get 226 outside of vault

[spice spire]

Oh yeeks

[odd hazel]

i mean, only reason skulker is at all bad is because its not 100% on who it hits

[gusty mirage]

skulker's is a good trinket, does the on use suck balls sometimes? sure

but it does a good amount of damage

and performs well

idk why this discussion even went on this long lol

[slow marsh]

because some people care about the differences between good and average

which is a valid point

[odd hazel]

yes, but we need to define what average is

[gusty mirage]

SLH with 2 allies is good

not average

[odd hazel]

top 6 isnt average

[balmy condor]

mastery was funny in february :) then it got annoying :) then he didn't stop :) now we're unloading the pent up anger :)

[gusty mirage]

SLH with 1 ally or less is average

[alpine latch]

I think the problem here is that "good" means something different to everyone.

[odd hazel]

i mean

good is good

if you're top 6, you're good

average in a list of 20 is like

10

[balmy condor]

seems that way, yeah

[slow marsh]

i mean

[spice spire]

Ahhh I see. Go off, king. Set that boundary

[alpine latch]

The top half of trinkets are within like 2% of each other

[slow marsh]

when over half of the things in the 20 are absolute trash

[spice spire]

I find it amusing but I’m not in here all the time

[slow marsh]

you're talking about 6th out of 8 realistically

which is not average

[odd hazel]

you cant eliminate choices because they are bad

[gusty mirage]

skulker's is like 1.06% behind a 226 phial though

[slow marsh]

But if you were making a tier list

they would all be f tier

[pale fossil]

Different subject - P2 Sire question. I generally kill Evershade without using any real CDs, and then using Vendetta/Trink on Gloomveil. That gives us Vendetta early into P3, yeah?

[alpine latch]

The top 50% of trinkets are the only ones worth using. Ignore the bottom half. ALL of those are within like 2-2.25% damage of each other.

Skulker's is average, as it's basically in the middle of that 2-2.25% variance.

[pale fossil]

Or am I messing up the timing here?

[slow marsh]

Skulkers would fall into c tier and maybe if you really try then b-

which isn't necessarily good

[alpine latch]

It's also dead middle in terms of raid trinkets, as Dreadfire and Hateful are better, and Skulker's/Macabre's (solo) is worse.

[gusty mirage]

I mean most people consider memory a good trinket

[alpine latch]

It's average

[gusty mirage]

and its worse than skulker's

so

[odd hazel]

i think you're focusing on trinkets to much. and not using them all to factor in your tier list

if you look at that chart

its top 6, which is not average

you look at all your variables, not 50% of them

when making a list/chart

[alpine latch]

But of that entire list only like 12 of those are usable.

Maybe 15?

[odd hazel]

why arent the others usable?

because they arent top tier ?

[pale fossil]

Bump because my guild is discussing CD usage pls

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion we need your expertise sir 🙂

[alpine latch]

Well, for starters, most people will never have the rating to get a 226 Badge of Ferocity, in which it's better to use damn near anything else.

[balmy condor]

I mean at the end of the day, this whole discussion is just what's good in your eyes

[shy dust]

If you’re using vendetta on 2nd add

[shy dust]

You only vendetta once P2

[limber lion]

Yes, you get Vendetta for P3.

[pale fossil]

Ok, perfect. And I meant Gloomhollow but I bet you assumed that.

Same wave anyway.

[limber lion]

It's Baron Duskhollow

[alpine latch]

The average person in here isn't getting a 233 Dreadfire Vessel. Some of us here might (I certainly won't), so looking at it as a "Well this is the best!" when you can't even get it is foolish.

[limber lion]

But good try.

:p

[gusty mirage]

eh gloomhollow duskhollow dawnhollow

same thing

[mossy crown]

anyone got any tips for Sun King?

[limber lion]

Dot everything, pump cds on the boss.

[gusty mirage]

save CDs for shield

[spice spire]

Mythic?

[gusty mirage]

that's about it

[mossy crown]

yeah mythic

[spice spire]

Yeah just pump shields as sin

Rest is padding

[limber lion]

Don't int your team, actually do the mechanics

ie. pumping the blood

[pale fossil]

Yeah that one LOL

[slow marsh]

Fair enough.

[mossy crown]

what lego? doomblade?

[slow marsh]

Zold

[limber lion]

Doomblade.

[balmy condor]

doomblade on sun king

[limber lion]

Legit trolling if you take Zoldyck

[slow marsh]

Oh why did I think we were talking about sire still

[mossy crown]

cheers all

[limber lion]

Good luck

[spice spire]

You got this king

[alpine latch]

Two questions got asked within likea minute of each other

One was about Vendetta usage on Sire

The other was tips for SKS

You probably just missed the SKS one 🙂

[slow marsh]

Yeah I did

[pale fossil]

I have heard that Zoldyk is better for Sire prog, but I'm using Doomblade for the moment.

[spice spire]

Zoldyck is really good if you’re having issues with p3 damage push only. Doomblade is a good stopgap until you get to that point IMO.

[slow marsh]

Yeah