assassination

[balmy condor]

As an all around

They’re meant as introductory guides

[final star]

2021/03/07 at 7:32 AM: 9.0.5 update By Mystler```

I mean sure

[rotund oak]

@balmy condor sorry to tag,not usually doing it but wanted to ask if u see something wrong here,maybe something i could change,any input would be appreciated https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sC9ZbK5vPFbDaBS2o1TGzL

[final star]

but you don't want to introduce to the wrong information, right?

[limber lion]

EP/Vig and DS/BS only see play when you get more gear.

Pretty sure BS/Vig is still the go-to at lower item levels.

[whole mason]

With introductory gear, that is kind of viable I think

[final star]

Personally rather play with what I'm gonna play with

but that's personal preference not actuality

[balmy condor]

I don’t have the willpower to argue with you about what’s right or wrong about a basic guide explaining basic info tbh

If you have a problem with it, I’m sure you can ask the guide writer yourself

[final star]

ya like I said it's personal preference; I'd rather have a guide that showed me what I'm gonna be playing decently geared

than what I play with when i'm pepo level geared

[limber lion]

But that's just you.

[whole mason]

It is just interesting for this part. I think there is kind of gear levels between builds. And yet we don't have haste break.

[limber lion]

A lot of people rather play what's best for their current gear/setup and change it up as they get more gear and progress further.

[balmy condor]

It’s way more complicated than a single stat breakpoint

[final star]

[limber lion]

Why do you care about the guide then anyways?

You're simming like 6.9k

It's obviously not for you.

[final star]

It applies to all guides

not just the rogue one

[balmy condor]

The best part about an opinion is that you can choose to keep it yourself

It’s like a secret only you know

Very cool

[final star]

and you can also choose to ignore it

[mighty bolt]

There are some people who never will reach the good gear because they are just casual players but they like to have a guideline

[balmy condor]

Yeah except when you’re in a public forum complaining about a guide for a difference in opinion

[mighty bolt]

When u interested on min max, u start searching different points of view and more info, so u understand there is another way than the basic guide

[gloomy fern]

like me, never getting 233 dagger

[balmy condor]

Who cares man

The guides accurate

[final star]

in the end, no-one

[limber lion]

I haven't gotten a single 233 item since I killed SLG/Sire a month ago.

[balmy condor]

No one asked whether Kieron the ravenholdt user thinks the talents are in order

[final star]

except I have had 2 people in the past 24hours ask me

[balmy condor]

You must be very popular to have people asking you about a guide you didn’t write

I don’t remember the last time I got a question about a guide

[final star]

too popular

[balmy condor]

God you’re insufferable

[final star]

i struggle to sit down

because my balls are too big

anyway

yes

[rotund oak]

[final star]

i can be

[rotund oak]

stretch your ego elsewhere ma dude

we dont care

[final star]

Taking it a bit too seriously lads

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o5zQ36JYRH1th931LzHJjs I didn’t bother simming haste gems but might be worthwhile

[rotund oak]

thx alot,gonna do it myself!!

[limber lion]

Doing sims on the phone, what a chad.

[balmy condor]

It’s hard to laugh at something that isn’t funny

[final star]

never said it was funny

just don't take everything someone said to heart

[balmy condor]

So it’s not even funny shitposting

It’s just shitposting

[final star]

wasn't even shitposting

what I said about the guide was true

what I said about people asking me about the guide

is true

[balmy condor]

If it smells like shit... and it looks like shit....

[final star]

just you literally took it as me spouting gospel

and chose to get riden up about it

[balmy condor]

You criticized a guide for no reason

And then backpedaled with “just my opinion tho”

[final star]

I criticized it because I didn't agree with it

[balmy condor]

As if anyone asked

[final star]

There wasn't no reason

[balmy condor]

Well then why say it

[final star]

because I can?

why do you say anything

[balmy condor]

Because people ask questions

And I answer them

[final star]

literally understanding that half the time

people don't care about anything you or I have to say

[balmy condor]

Do you not understand how this channel works

[final star]

is accurate

[limber lion]

[pseudo hamlet]

Why "Death's" Whispyr?

[balmy condor]

Because @shy dust

[pseudo hamlet]

I don't get it.

[rotund oak]

''some things are just meant to be''

dont ruin the mystery!

[balmy condor]

#wowheadnews message

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh! They changed the name 😄

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pSjJuGnREwAaY5Kf4Nvg5D

[rotund oak]

yy ive runned the same couple of mins ago ty though for the interest

[final star]

0.4% instead of 0.2%

[final sky]

pikachu 🙂

[dawn ivy]

catching up on my class discord is always a great way to start the day

[thin imp]

do you guys actually make sims for others?

[balmy condor]

Yeh it’s not a lot of work

[limber lion]

it's like 10 clicks, not too bad.

[final star]

might as well use the 16M iterations for people who can't do that

[thin imp]

oh raidbots actually includes the vault 😮

[balmy condor]

It’s not like a “hey sim me”, but more of people checking to see if they’re missing something

Which is fine

[thin imp]

can you guys do me a favour?

[final sky]

depends what it is

[limber lion]

Depends.

[dawn ivy]

for free?

[balmy condor]

Feet pics are extra

[thin imp]

what if they are toes?

[balmy condor]

[thin imp]

uh things are getting interesting

[final star]

depends if your feet are more seasoned than my chicken

[balmy condor]

I’m a man of the people

[slow marsh]

Tru

Speaking of which

If shiv is up and rupture is falling off should I use CT or garrote?

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

[whole mason]

I dont know why but this question is beyond my understanding maybe.

[dawn ivy]

2 envenoms

[balmy condor]

Mans playing 6D chess

[final star]

If I have 12 watermelons and John has 3 cats, what time is the next train to Edinburgh?

[slow marsh]

Honestly

These are the questions only whispyr can answer

[thin imp]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wXniW9crHbm7kBHNpC2RPR

could you have a look? I have this 207 ring that I can't get rid off, not sure if the socket is that impactful

[dawn ivy]

yeah sockets on rings are hard to get rid of

[final star]

usually sockets contribute a lot on jewelry

[thin imp]

I guess that it weights more in jewerly since it doesnt give agi

[slow marsh]

Indeed

[odd hazel]

@balmy condor how did raid go ?

[shell kettle]

🤔

Maybe so but 16 stat is 16 stat.. its not more or less on any other item

Would recommend you socket bis gear first so you dont throw away sockets

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

16 secondary stat

[odd hazel]

[final star]

let's see if we add a socket

to your 226 GV ring

[thin imp]

16 stats is 16 stats but a chest piece with a socket 213ilvl gives you less agility than a non socket chjest piece 226 and agility weights more so its easier to upgrade non jewelry gear

[final star]

if it goes ahead of your 207

[balmy condor]

Guild definitely didn’t stop raiding

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/erXpnXYq1TVx2KjP18KJF7

it does indeed

[odd hazel]

ouchhh

[thin imp]

obviously 16 secondary stats will give the same in any other piece tho

[final star]

by 7 whole dps

[thin imp]

meh quite late to farm venari reputation to work for that socket

[final star]

are you exalted with her on any characters>

[odd hazel]

i farmed venari for conduits mainly, if i get conduits cool

[thin imp]

also first time seeing eternal skirmish over eternal stats

[dawn ivy]

ive been skirmish since 9.0.5 at least

[slow marsh]

Yeah same

[final star]

same

[odd hazel]

Same

[shell kettle]

Afaik skirmish is static value so better in less gear. Stats would maybe be better in full bis

[thin imp]

I see, I will swtich the enchant then

[slow marsh]

Just sim it

[balmy condor]

I’m stats for m+

[thin imp]

for a whole lot of 17 dps increased

[balmy condor]

But skirmish is slightly better in low target counts

So

If you only raid

[odd hazel]

you could farm the rep for the perm torghast upgrades

[balmy condor]

Go for it

[thin imp]

what do they do? missed shadowlands entirely and started playing again like a month ago

[odd hazel]

give you higher chance to get better powers, doesnt let the first death count agianst you/etc

the broker seller on floor 3/6 have a chance to sell blues/etc

[limber lion]

Skirmish gamers here.

[odd hazel]

also gives you little portals to jump the chains

[balmy condor]

Parse whore cev reporting for duty

Smh

[limber lion]

[odd hazel]

#BoyCottCev

[thin imp]

okay, I will have a look, most probably I will be raid off until 9.1 and I am tired of doing spires for the neck so something else to waste my time

[final star]

torghast upgrades worth getting for 9.1 too

[odd hazel]

yeah its not to bad, got to conduit ranking in like 4 weeks or so? im not sure on the exact time it took but it wasnt to bad. could make it faster by doing both weekly and daily stuff.

[final star]

so it's good value

I still need 3-4 sockets myself cos I neglected it

[odd hazel]

i wish i did it sooner for the sockets to sit on

[final star]

else I'd be hard gunning for the conduit upgrades

sucks you can only hold one socket item at a time

else you gotta hold stygia

and not fall off the edge

[odd hazel]

i have a nice 226 blood oath signet that could use a socket

[final star]

[odd hazel]

i mean

do you want to tell the class something kieron

[final star]

I fell off the edge once at the start of xpac

auto running

[odd hazel]

[teal bloom]

Should you use all of your SBS charges during sludgefist pillar or just during gemstones as usual?

[balmy condor]

Pillar

[teal bloom]

ty

[odd hazel]

is necro play just, Use at start----- then use the rest during gem stones? do you let it cap at 3? ( Obviously if theres things like inerva you dot all 3, let sire you dot as many adds as you can in P3 )

or like sire like you just said dumping during pillars

[dawn ivy]

never let it cap at 3

[undone lodge]

hello guys, why raidbots show bigger DPS results Ilvl weapon on my off-hand? is it a bug?

[odd hazel]

prob is just showing importance of OH due to poison procs. But it doesnt matter really. ( i think ?)

but the bottom of your stats should be just weapon damage.

[undone lodge]

hmmm

[odd hazel]

Agility
3.60
Off Hand Weapon DPS
2.29
Critical Strike
1.65
Haste
1.57
Versatility
1.53
Mastery
1.39
Weapon DPS
17.85

[undone lodge]

this is the results tho

[odd hazel]

can you link it?

[undone lodge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/trMiH3td9PXiDQ3hKJKTJM

there you go

[dawn ivy]

make sure when youre simming weapons that you check all viable weapons for both main hand and off hand

[undone lodge]

all?

[dawn ivy]

ah no nvm you did

[undone lodge]

lol

@odd hazel so what do you think? should i follow the results or just put higher ilvl on my MH?

[odd hazel]

i mean, the results are showing it as better to be in your OH. so unless something is off i would follow it

not like it'll make or break you if you do or dont atleast

im just not sure What is causing the OH to be better exactly. better poison procs maybe?

[undone lodge]

ah okay, this why sometimes simming results is more confusing than not simming it lol

[elfin birch]

!S

!stat

[odd hazel]

Crit > haste venth, Necro usually favors haste more.

[elfin birch]

thanks 😄

[undone lodge]

hmmm in that case ther results is the way

[undone lodge]

i'm still at night fae, is it worth to re-run for the new covenant? i meant do venthyr is a must for rogue?

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/55GBGTQAEHjpwdL2f3Zxbc

It's because it wasn't changing mh enchant

[slim wagon]

I don't see your current main hand as an offhand option in your sims

[final star]

Or it was trying to add only sinful revelation

Anyway, my sim has fixed the issue

Make sure that you resim weapon enchants when trying new weapons

[undone lodge]

ahhhhhhhhhhhh so it because i was put the wrong enchanment?

[final star]

No it was because you didn't try and sim replacement enchants

So it didn't try and change the ones that already existed

[undone lodge]

oh my 😅

Main hand is Sinful and OH is Celestial? @final star

[final star]

Doesn't matter iirc

I have celestial on mh cos I use it for outlaw too

[spice spire]

It does not matter is correct

[final star]

And my outlaw already had sinful mh

[spice spire]

None of my hands are sinful, pure gameplay only

[final star]

Dang

On god?

[undone lodge]

it doesnt matter?

[spice spire]

FOR GOD. The only revelation imma see is in the Bible

[final star]

Straight bussin

[spice spire]

Trolling aside, that’s correct. Enchantments can go on whatever weapon

[undone lodge]

hahahaha, sorry, english is not my main language, so i dont know if you guys were trolling LOL

[spice spire]

You’re okay! It’s better to make sure 🙂

[undone lodge]

🙂

well, thank you so much @odd hazel @dawn ivy @final star @spice spire

@slim wagon and you too

[spice spire]

Good luck sir

[undone lodge]

right back at you 🙂

[final star]

[kindred kettle]

is there a good guide out there that isnt icy veins? it lead me in completely the wrong direction.

[late birch]

On a fight like dena, do i even bother putting CT up again during Shiv window or do i just get out as much envenoms as i can?

[odd hazel]

Icy veins should be fine??

[odd hazel]

You're welcome!

[odd hazel]

Venthyr is BiS for St, Necro for M+ ( anything more then one target basically ). But in reality CoV does not matter for oyu to play a a competitive level

[kindred kettle]

im saying that it conflicts with many of the top DPS im seeing on subcreation

[odd hazel]

what?

what does it conflict with.

also, subcreation?

[limber lion]

So you're saying that subcreation is a better and more reliable source?

My boy.

[odd hazel]

thats why ive never heard of it

lmao

[kindred kettle]

it isnt?

[limber lion]

Here's a link to the IcyVeins creators raider.io:
https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Seliathan#season=season-sl-1

[kindred kettle]

honestly idk! lol

[limber lion]

I think he's doing pretty well and looks like he knows a thing or two.

[arctic walrus]

Looks like a nobody

[limber lion]

Oh lookie, he's also on the side bar along with the rest of the Community Figures

[kindred kettle]

well subcreation seems legit because they compiling data from many different players(????)

and you can see it

[odd hazel]

icy veins is a fine site

im not sure why you think other wise

[kindred kettle]

contrasted with one person's recommendation

[odd hazel]

that one person who does very well and is knowledgeable

[limber lion]

What are you looking at and where is the conflict then?

Subcreation is honestly fine for most things.

[kindred kettle]

talents, covenants, gear

[limber lion]

It just doesn't look at talent/legendary/covenant combos (afaik) and only everything separately.

[undone lodge]

ahhh thanks!!

[odd hazel]

what exactly are they saying different

[kindred kettle]

conduits

[odd hazel]

like

what

what conduits

[kindred kettle]

different legendary

[odd hazel]

as in?

[limber lion]

?????

[odd hazel]

that looks right to me

?

[limber lion]

Both are saying the exact same thing my boy

[odd hazel]

go into detail pelase other then just "conduits, leggo etc"

[civic trellis]

I learnt to use sins following that guide

I guess I should look for other guide? /s XD

[kindred kettle]

well they recommend night fae

[odd hazel]

night fae is fine tbh, any cov is.

[kindred kettle]

most people seem to go for ven though. and im necro for some reason

[limber lion]

Most people choose between Venthyr and Necro.

[kindred kettle]

and then they recommend ven because of the potency conduit so theyre even contradicting themselves

[civic trellis]

?

XD

[odd hazel]

thats correct though

[limber lion]

Wut

[charred wraith]

Another dumb question about sire, do we hold vendetta and vanish with MA anywhere? (obv except if the intermission is soon)

[civic trellis]

if close to 40%

[limber lion]

You use Vanish and Vendetta together every time.

You just use them according to your assignment

The norm is 1 Vendetta P1, 1 Vendetta P2 (on named add) and 2 Vendettas in P3.

[kindred kettle]

so which is the best? if they recommend one then the other

[odd hazel]

Venth for ST, necro for anything more then one target

[kindred kettle]

ok

[odd hazel]

but

realistcally

it doesnt matter, you can compete with any covenant

[kindred kettle]

fair enough

that reassuring. i guess i was just taken aback by how different i looked on paper to the top DPS on subcreation.

[odd hazel]

why are you so head strong on subcreation

[kindred kettle]

im not necessarily. its just that its not recommendations per se. more so just data

[odd hazel]

i mean

warcraft logs

this is literally the first i've herad of subcreation

[teal bloom]

Is it normal that sbs gives me 1 fewer combo points than it should very commonly?

[odd hazel]

thats a bug i believe, not sure if its the same thing though

[civic trellis]

Btw What is subcreation?

[kindred kettle]

https://subcreation.net/

[civic trellis]

Yeah it is a bug

[odd hazel]

why not just use warcraft logs?

[kindred kettle]

im not a paid spokesperson i swear lol its just something i was shown by someone else and thought it was interesting.

[odd hazel]

this site

does not look good

[kindred kettle]

ok

well then thats fine. because i was hoping to ignore it

if im on the right track already that is

[vestal wren]

wcl or r.io offer better value

but some people just love the idea of small websites that often have information presented in a non obvious or misleading way

[odd hazel]

it just seemed weird, i will agree that ICy veins does present some choices in a different way

[kindred kettle]

whats wrong with it ?

[civic trellis]

Guys do you think Hateful Chain oversims a bit?

[kindred kettle]

again im not hoping to argue. just add it to a list of things i can ignore

[odd hazel]

i mean, im sure the site is fine but theres real no reason to use it over things like wcl or R.io for that information.

[civic trellis]

On most fights my phial 220 does more damage than my 226 hateful chain but chain sims over phial

ST fights

[odd hazel]

prob cause in reality you're not benefiting from chain as much as phial

but in a sim situation it could.

[civic trellis]

Why not?

I thought healing and dps procs have separate ppms

[spice spire]

You taking heavy damage chief?

[civic trellis]

so it shouldnt matter

I've read that somewhere here iirc

[sinful cradle]

If your hp is lower than the target the trinket wont dmg

[civic trellis]

But ppm are the same

[spice spire]

Yeah - so If you’re consistently at 80% while boss is 90%, you’ll get 0 PPM for damage. PPM is independent of each other in the case of your health being fairly constant but topped off

But the rule of the trinket remains the same

[undone lodge]

oh one other thing, my DPD shown on Raidbots is 6k+ but my actual DPS (non hectic boss eg. Altimor, Xymox, etc) is only about 4.5-4.6k at best, is it close enough to a good rotation or not?

DPS*

[civic trellis]

Yeah I get what you mean, but for example, if you are 30 secs at 80% while boss it as 90% you wont get any proc, but if in the other 30 secs your health % is above, you should get the full ppm, shouldnt it?

Or does ppm work only while the trigger is active?

[spice spire]

Only works while trigger is active iirc

[civic trellis]

Ah damn that's it then

[spice spire]

You should try to get as close as possible to your sim DPS. Mechanics so change that quite a bit, especially if you’re unlucky - but if you’re doing like heroic hungering or inerva, it should be mighty close

Common mistakes are overcapping Combo points, wasting energy, and maintaining uptime on boss

[odd hazel]

also make sure you're simming with the raid buffs you have

[undone lodge]

i only run heroic at best, never mythic, tho, but in heroic i can only achieved less than 4k at best 😦

[spice spire]

If you have any logs, a lot of people here will look at them!

[undone lodge]

too embarassed to share it tho 😅

i think im skillcapped most of the time lol

[odd hazel]

we all start from somewhere my guy

[plain onyx]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[undone lodge]

is wowanalyzer reliable?

[desert inlet]

think it doesn't work for sin atm

it should say when you try

[spice spire]

It’s sketch

I totally did the irresponsible thing and looked anyway - a lot of combo points are wasted. Remember for your finishers, you do max-1. So finishing on 4 is fine for any envenom or rupture

[undone lodge]

i found it very difficult to get 4 combo points 😦

[odd hazel]

its also fine to reapply rupture with low combo points, i believe thats preferable then letting it fall off.

[undone lodge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/56102731

here is my logs ...dont laugh please lol

[spice spire]

Hey we all started somewhere

[undone lodge]

so please beat me with your teaching mastah

[odd hazel]

so

the thing i see

automatically

you let your rupture fall off A LOT

garrote should also be higher

[spice spire]

And if that’s the case, you just spam mutilate too much. You waste a lot of CP on mutilate a lot. And I hadn’t even touched rupture yet

So that’s two very big dps increases

[odd hazel]

• just looking at hungering* you let garrote fall of fa bit, you only had rupture up 78% of the time

you wasted 59 combo points on mut, 28 on seal fate, 10 on garrote, 2 on sepsis

[desert inlet]

not as big, but you can save some cp/energy/time in the opener by doing Mut -> SnD -> Mut and then Envenom will keep Slice and Dice going the rest of the fight

[undone lodge]

i think i beter fixed my tunnel vision habit

[spice spire]

Seal fate is sometimes avoidable - but the rest of it is. Only CP you should waste are seal fate and shiv both are excusable.

And a lot of it is just practice. Any time you have a question you’re more than welcome to ask here. We want rogues to succeed

[civic trellis]

The key is to play relaxed

[odd hazel]

yeah, we all started some where

the biggest problem is never asking for help

[final star]

This is my cp gain on hc hungering as an example

the overcap/wasted are unavoidable

But focus on building to 4-5CP

and spending

even if you slow down your play

[undone lodge]

ahhh this is it, i get nervous very easy when raiding with my guildies, although there is no reason for it

[civic trellis]

Well if you are nervious is hard to think ahead

[final star]

rn u are killing boss, so it's good time to improve

[civic trellis]

that's the biggest dps loss 😛

[undone lodge]

is there any weakauras or make it myself to track when sela fate is on?

[final star]

seal fate is a proc

when you crit

you generate an extra cp

[undone lodge]

so how to know when it procs?

[final star]

it procs when you crit

you don't play around it

[desert inlet]

you'll know because you'll get an extra combo point or two

[undone lodge]

so i better sepsis when CP is full?

[desert inlet]

seems like you're mutilating when you have full CP instead of using a finisher

esp here on Sludgefist

do you have WAs that track your combo points and bleeds? think it would help

[undone lodge]

ahhh i see

[final star]

sepsis generates 3 CP

you want to use it at 2 or less CP

[undone lodge]

yes'

[undone lodge]

ahhh okok

[final star]

or is it 1CP

[undone lodge]

is there anything i can log this convo LOL

[final star]

I haven't been night fae in a minute

[desert inlet]

pretty sure it gives 1

[final star]

yeah it's 1

looked it up

so use it at 4 or less CP

5 or less if deeper stratagem talented

[undone lodge]

i'm capturing this convo, wait, lol

[final star]

be aware of the base CP that your abilities generate

and play around that

keep your bleeds up at all times, refreshing in pandemic range

make sure you shiv on cooldown

[undone lodge]

so the key is to finish at 4 CP, dont overspam mutilate, dont let garrotte adn rupture falls off

[final star]

4-5CP

since you are vigor

[undone lodge]

what i do when CP is full when finishers arent ready yet?

[final star]

finishers are always ready

[undone lodge]

ahhh ok ok, just put everything on envenom than rupture?

or the other way round?

[final star]

You refresh rupture when required

Else you envenom

I won't go in to pooling effectively yet cos it's already big info overload

Focus on your bleed uptime

Get them to 90% or better

For now

And focus on not overcapping on combo points

[undone lodge]

bleed uptime means garotte and rupture right?

[final star]

Yes sir

[thin imp]

how do you see the cp wasted?

[final star]

Resources > combo points

[undone lodge]

it must be when i was panicking, or looking on Details counter LOL

[thin imp]

ty!

[thin imp]

play without looking at details man you are fixed in 4 pixels of the screen instead on the boss

[undone lodge]

wait my cat caught a bat...................

[whole mason]

keeping up bleed at 99% or close to it is an essential practice habit. It gets you learning about the refresh timing and skill planning.

[undone lodge]

back..

damn cat!

[undone lodge]

okay sir, well noted

[spice spire]

Yeah next raid night let us know how it goes with higher uptime on bleeds!

[heavy basalt]

Pooling energy?

[whole mason]

Every time you shouting crap I'm in shiv and I need to refresh rupture makes you stronger.

[final star]

^^

[final star]

yes

[heavy basalt]

What benefit does pooling energy give?

[final star]

more damage in your shiv window

It's also a slight damage gain overall clipping the envenom buff

[heavy basalt]

<---- 100% retail noob

[final star]

- Pool on envenom (as in get about 30 from your maximum energy before casting envenom), when you are not inside of a burst window (vendetta, shiv, flag). This maximizes uptimes for poisons and buffs, but is generally not a big increase.

in the pin

[whole mason]

Pooling is the core sin habit for not using your energy so fast that you are energy exhaust and lose DPS in some window e.g. the env buff.

Just not quite significant for the current patch, but small things count.

[final star]

yeah

it

is just good practice

you won't ever get caught out then

[undone lodge]

so what about Ambush? should i use it everytime it's up, or waiting for free ambush to cast it?

[final star]

only cast when it's free

[thin trout]

my ICD is giving me versatility, i have 518 (12.95%) vers vs 586 crit (+16.74%) - anyone know why?

[final star]

it gives one of your 2 highest stats outside lust

during lust your highest is guaranteed

[undone lodge]

i am using Mystler WA for my sin

[thin trout]

ah thanks

[undone lodge]

ah okay thanks

and should i just ignores the stats like the guides here said or should i put it more to it?

[final star]

what stats?

just equip what sims the highest in top gear

on raidbots

[rocky rain]

!ui

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[undone lodge]

shouild i put more haste?

[thin trout]

i mean wtf now I just got a haste proc and i have more crit than haste 😢

[undone lodge]

priority stats

[final star]

ya just equip what sims the highest

🙂

[undone lodge]

ah nice, thanks

Well, guys, it's a privilege to have you help me here, i can't thank you enough for it

thank you thank you

[spice spire]

Any time!! If you have any more questions, always ask! We’re here to help

[undone lodge]

i will i will

and i will share my raid logs after i'm learning from you guys, please be patience with me for i'm a slow learner

[spice spire]

No worries, best of luck, and we’ll see those logs soon

[undone lodge]

[final star]

ye let us know

[undone lodge]

i will

[inland oasis]

[exotic notch]

Sorry all, in m+ 15s on tyran are you still running CT or PB?

[tulip nacelle]

ct all day

[exotic notch]

i thought so, sorry, arguing with a friend whos new to rogue 😄

[ruby birch]

CT

[inland oasis]

Run outlaw

[ruby birch]

fake ass "rogue" spec

[oak trout]

for burst I do 4/5 combo - shiv - vendetta - vanish - envenom right?

[limber lion]

For what purpose would you want to "Burst"?

[oak trout]

sludge

[frail fossil]

i'm watching and not approving your behavior

[limber lion]

You would Vendetta before he hits the pillar, Shiv right as he hits the pillar and then vanish - Env-

[oak trout]

right

thanks

[ruby birch]

pirate players

[frail fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/btd6-bloons-monkey-buccaneer-who-tf-asked-tf-asked-gif-19748875

[rustic whale]

is simc simulation rotation is true? both opener and rest?

[inland oasis]

Rogue pirate*

[ruby birch]

pirate pirate

[frail fossil]

u dont have to vanish at max cp

[inland oasis]

:(

[frail fossil]

if u can do vanish mut envenom

it's the same

[ruby birch]

on sludge i think you pool before he hits pillar

refresh gar, rupture, pool

[frail fossil]

yeah u do

[limber lion]

Look at this reply to see a perfectly executed vulnerability window. @oak trout

[ruby birch]

then as he is about to hit, shiv vend vanish env

[limber lion]

Almost.

[frail fossil]

why would u shiv before vendetta ?

[limber lion]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/840598903333978132/unknown.png

[ruby birch]

i dont idk why i typed shiv then vend

[limber lion]

This is the correct way

[ruby birch]

i usually vendetta as he's running then shiv right before he hits

[inland oasis]

Gcd

[limber lion]

Shiv is the first cd when he hits the pillar.

Vend/Flag used before.

[frail fossil]

vendetta is out of the gcd

[inland oasis]

True haha

[limber lion]

Imagine all of these outlaw/sub players coming in here

And trying to give out advice

I joke

You're all welcome here

[ruby birch]

[limber lion]

[inland oasis]

Imagine players playing the three spec

[frail fossil]

ok then i'm getting called otp cool behavior mr ceverion

[frail fossil]

[rustic whale]

i m looking for an advice or adjust for opener , muti > slice > muti > garrote then what Flag > Rupture > Shiv > vendetta or Muti > Slice > Muti > garrote then Vendetta > Flag > Rupture > Shiv

[limber lion]

Don't confuse me with Rae

I think you're doing just fine.

[limber lion]

The first one is closer to correct. You would want to Vendetta before Shiv but otherwise it's good.

[burnt star]

And why not use flag after he hit thw pillar?

[hazy crater]

233 weapon

we did it

[ruby birch]

flag's main damage is from the cp dumping

[frail fossil]

the second would be, if on pull u dont have lust right ?

[burnt star]

Isnt flag usage high damage

[frail fossil]

u press vend just before vanish

[limber lion]

Grats, I'm 9 weeks dry (excluding one week between)

[frail fossil]

for the energy regen

[rustic whale]

aight ty

[limber lion]

Sure, but if you cast it at the beginning you would be wasting the duration and delaying Shiv usage.

[rustic whale]

i was thinking vendetta %30 profits the Flag initial

[hazy crater]

thanks, actually an insane upgrade when using 226MH and 220OH

[limber lion]

That's me...

[ruby birch]

please take my daggers

[frail fossil]

the fact that u still dont have a 226 oh

is criminal

[ruby birch]

i literally have like 4 mists 226 ohs daggers

[limber lion]

Yuup

[burnt star]

So overal delaying shiv would be a bigger loss then what u gain from flag initial. Hmm

[frail fossil]

imagine if u had full 233 gear

[ruby birch]

it drives me crazy

[hazy crater]

+89dps for me

[limber lion]

Yes. Flag lasts for 12s, pillar lasts for 12s. If you spend 2 seconds running to the pillar and then use it when he hits it, you lose 3 seconds of Flag and a second of Shiv.

Not worth.

[limber lion]

:(

I'm happy for you

[ruby birch]

im still waiting for a 226 crit haste chest piece

[limber lion]

It's okay, I'm getting several 233 items today - if I'm even in for SLG/Sire. Maybe not

[rotund oak]

u were waiting for a gloomblade pvp meta as well,might have to wait a bit longer 😂

im joking,wishes for all the luck

[limber lion]

Hah, got you beat there

I would trade it for any 233 piece in an instant though

[ruby birch]

gloomblade actually pumps in pvp

[ruby birch]

the mists chest piece is a 1.2% upgrade for me :(

council too but that shit isnt ever going to drop for me

BECAUSE I KEEP

GETTING THE STUPID TRINKET

@rotund oak u just jealous i pump 40k gloomblade bursts

[limber lion]

I could use the 226 dagger from Council. :'(

[ruby birch]

i give u my 226 council dagger

u give me ur 226 chest piece

@limber lion pls

im so sick

of getting daggers

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Cev

[limber lion]

It's okay. Today is the day

[ruby birch]

eeeeeeeeeasy

233 dagger

[limber lion]

[ruby birch]

wish sin had something like gloomblade

[odd hazel]

wish sub was good like sin

[ruby birch]

exsang is so dogshit that i literally couldnt make a build for it

[odd hazel]

[ruby birch]

gloomblade's out here doing 30-40k damage

exsang does literally nothing

[ruby birch]

9.1 sub

[odd hazel]

i hope so

i enjoyed sub when i was playing it

[whole mason]

is it possible for vent to control two loyal in HoA?

[ruby birch]

yes

pull both and click the button quickly

you have to cast the second "control" ability right after the first one

if you click it too late you wont be able to

[whole mason]

oh

thanks

do you need to target the second one?

[ruby birch]

no

you dont need to target any of them im pretty sure

just have both of them near you

[whole mason]

great

[gusty mirage]

Correct, you just spam the extra action button and you should be able to nab both

[reef herald]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gentle rapids]

When using Deeper Strategem, is it worth it to finish at 4cp if you can get another envenom in during the 9s Shiv nature dmg buff?

[gusty mirage]

No, always finish max-1

[gentle rapids]

Okay, thanks

[gusty mirage]

No problem

[rocky rain]

Will my (worse) sin gear still do better on sludge?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hJEJpsoChxwyeL5WoeZn5A

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jwY2zreGTqXi4ucLc4rRr

It's slightly worse, but im thinking the burst + execute might make up for it?

[limber lion]

You forgot to sim a covenant with your sin set.

[flat musk]

did for me

[limber lion]

But yes, your assassination will do much better. You should be playing EP/Vig with it though

I'll sim it for you

[rocky rain]

oh weird. I'm necrolord so not sure why it didnt pick it up automatically

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jAvTscssBSXtXdKzXYrWxY

Here you go

That's what you should run on Sludge.

Beats your Outlaw pretty clearly and even if it was similar it would beat it by class design.

[rocky rain]

ty. good spot

[spice spire]

Huge

[frail fossil]

if u really wanna minmax sludge venthyr is pretty good for it since flag does a lot of dmg on vulnerability phases

but also SBS is much better on the 2 bosses after sludge

[rocky rain]

Yeah I'm literally only sin for this fight so I'm going to stick with necrolord

[limber lion]

SBS does giga damage as well.

[rocky rain]

Do you pool SBS charges for pillars?

[limber lion]

SBS actually does more damage on average.

[limber lion]

Yes.

[frail fossil]

on pillars ?

[rocky rain]

Apart from the first one of course

[limber lion]

Overall.

[frail fossil]

on sludge ?

[limber lion]

Go look at any sludge log

Yeh

[frail fossil]

damn

so u just hold 2 charges for pillars

[limber lion]

But it doesn't take into account the haste from Flag of course.

It's just the damage

Yep

[frail fossil]

kk

[final sky]

whats sbs

[limber lion]

Serrated Bonespike, Necrolord's covenant ability.

[final sky]

oh ok

also what legendary should i go? im mainly gonna do m+ until im more geared but i want to raid when im further into endgame

[limber lion]

Zoldyck is the best choice for M+ and it's pretty good in raids as well.

[spice spire]

M+ Zoldyck’s, raid is Doomblade

[limber lion]

It's the best overall legendary.

[final sky]

awesome thanks 😄

[spice spire]

But Zoldyck’s also good in raid

Best of luck

[final sky]

you too

[next solar]

I like how CT is making an apperance this tier

[limber lion]

Still our best AoE ability.

[rocky rain]

Vanish pull, 2nd and 4th?

[limber lion]

On Sludge? Yes.

[spice spire]

Pillars on sludge?

[rocky rain]

Looks really tight to fit it in

Yeah

sludge

[spice spire]

Yes

[limber lion]

You use all cooldowns on pull and pillars.

Not just Vanish.

[rocky rain]

Yeah so vendetta on pull, 2nd and 4th. And shiv every pillar and once in between pillars?

Did I miss anything?

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

You hold your covenant abilities for pillars as well. You also want to run on-use trinkets and use those on pillars as well.

DFV/Memory is the most common combo.

[spice spire]

Wait, I actually had a not troll question. Do we flag on vanish for the crit or does that not apply/is too minimal of a gain to be arsed?

[rocky rain]

"on use trinketS"? As in two?

Don't they share CD?

[limber lion]

No, we use Vanish for Mutilates/Envenoms only. Not Flag.

[limber lion]

No, they have a 20cd cooldown whenever you use one.

By using 2 you can have one trinket for each pillar.

[rocky rain]

Ah ok I get you

[spice spire]

I figured crit might be GIGA for it, that’s why I was curious.

[limber lion]

Memory on pull, DFV on p1, Memory on p2, DFV on p3 and Memory on p4

[limber lion]

Na. You use Flag before the pillar anyways and Vanish during the pillar

[smoky widget]

If p1 and p2 are not an issue for denathrius is zoldjck going to outdo doomblade?

[rocky rain]

I have DFV and codex.... Codex seems not worth?

[smoky widget]

mythic as well

[limber lion]

Yeh, don't use that.

[limber lion]

In p3 yes.

[smoky widget]

have had lots of <2% wipes

[spice spire]

Flag before pillar? Actual gaming. I also meant in general not just sludge lmao it was a side question

[limber lion]

Yeah, definitely play with Zoldyck and DS/BS then

[limber lion]

Yes. We never use Flag with Vanish.

[hollow river]

Ooh so I should use skulkers DFV instead of chain DFV on sludge

[limber lion]

Yes would recommend it.

[spice spire]

If you’re reliably getting p1/p2 down and are that close with p3, extra Execute will be huge

[limber lion]

Some people have had tragedies with skulkers by having them pull them too far and kill their partner

But with the recent nerfs to Sludge it shouldn't be a problem

[next solar]

pop everything on pull so you have it for lust on last pillar

[pale fossil]

What does CT uptime normally look like on Denath through the end of P2? Really struggling to keep it up with prioritizing getting rupture onto adds and then bursting with Shiv.

[rocky rain]

ok. need some dummy time before tonight. thanks folks 😄

[limber lion]

No worries!

[hollow river]

Yeah I’ve had this happen once. I try to be careful with it now lol.

[limber lion]

Doesn't honestly matter.

It changes from pull to pull for everyone.

Don't look at it.

[hollow river]

I was chained to a DH who went the opposite direction as my skulkers hit. ):

[next solar]

^, then again i scuffed the shit out of our first sire pull :/

[pale fossil]

I figure it'll trend up as I get more comfortable with the fight anyway, I was just curious how much to prioritize, but it sounds like the answer is don't haha

[rocky rain]

I take it if you get "unlucky" and proc 5 CPs at the start of a pillar, you just shiv anyway and overcap?

[limber lion]

Yeah, you just use it normally as you would. You keep it up as much as possible.

Some people prioritize the priority damage from using Envenoms during Shiv windows

[hollow river]

Yeah shiv over cap is fine I think

[limber lion]

But for more overall you just slam Shiv and rupture/CT everything.

[hollow river]

It’s the only thing that is ok to overcap

[limber lion]

Yes.

[pale fossil]

Yesterday was my first time using it, so I don't have a sense for how to use it overall. I'm told I just try to keep it up, but don't refresh it during Shiv windows.

[limber lion]

You pool energy and build to 4-5 CP before the pillar.

[limber lion]

You should refresh during Shiv windows if there is 2 or more targets.

That rule only applies in single target.

[hollow river]

I’m glad you said this I’m trolling huntsman then.

[pale fossil]

Didn't realize, that's really good to know. So on M Sire I really shouldn't pay attention to whether I have Shiv up or not when it's entering pandemic.

[hollow river]

Still managed 6.3k overall with 214 ilvl on my first@mythic huntsman kill

[pale fossil]

Since there's also remornia or some other add around.

*always

[limber lion]

Don't worry, it's not a huge thing

[limber lion]

Yes. You should pretty much be keeping CT up as much as possible during P2

[next solar]

@hollow river thats not bad esp for that ilvl

[pale fossil]

Got it.

[hollow river]

Thanks sir

[next solar]

CT on huntsman is also giga

[hollow river]

Yes it is

[next solar]

also heroing on pull

[hollow river]

But when they take the dog away I cringe

[next solar]

just dot it and let it run

[hollow river]

I do

[next solar]

it should be back eventually

[hollow river]

Sometime I chase it down to@make sure I’ve got it completely dotted

Then shadow step huntsman

[next solar]

eh

I pretty much just plant on that fight, dog comes in for a few seconds, i get everything up, then go back to hunts

[limber lion]

You should definitely keep all bleeds on both of them at all times as much as you can.

Once the bleeds drop on the dog, you should run there to dot it up again.

[hollow river]

I typically don’t get time to put up every dot before they move it

[limber lion]

Or just shadowstep to the dog and walk back with it

Eventually the tank brings it back

I normally just sprint to the dog, bleed it up and step back to Huntsman

[hollow river]

So I chase for at least CT or something

[kindred kettle]

what does the optimal use of serrated bone spike look like on single target/multi?

[hollow river]

Yup

[limber lion]

ST: first GCD of the fight, then you dump everything during Heirmir's gemstone windows.

AOE: you use SBS on everything around you so everything has the dot on them. Then you use them during Gemstone procs again.

[next solar]

our kill the dog isn't out long enough for bleeds to expire

[limber lion]

Prioritize targets that die quickly, as you get resets from them

[hollow river]

Well you’re guild is too giga ok

[next solar]

no i mean i think you can time it to where it comes back in

[hollow river]

Ohhh yeah ofc

[next solar]

wasn't meaning to brag, i just think it works oujt that way

[hollow river]

I thought you meant you guys killed it that fast rofl

[next solar]

nooooo

xD

[limber lion]

Yeah a lot of guilds just take the dog out for an eternity and bring it back only after shades spawn.

[next solar]

our dog is out for a total of 17 seconds

[limber lion]

Some guilds just move it like 3s before Rip Soul happens and then brings it straight back

[next solar]

which is right when garrote needs to be refreshed

[hollow river]

I’ve only done mythic once but out tanks seemed like they were on it with timing

Our

[next solar]

forsure, at the end of the day boss ded

[hollow river]

I lived a sacrifice arrow in p3 😅

We had no immunes left for the last set

[next solar]

gg

[hollow river]

Does cloak work on them?

[limber lion]

Nope.

Nothing does.

[hollow river]

Wow

[limber lion]

In our kit that is.

[dapper yew]

Does Crimson Tempest Bleed count as bleed damage and do you get energy regen per Venomous Wounds

[limber lion]

BOP does work.

[hollow river]

I popped everything

[next solar]

turtle works

[hollow river]

And I barely got off a second of flesh craft

[limber lion]

It is bleed damage yes, but it does not count for Venomous Wounds.

VW specifies which bleeds work.

[pale fossil]

It works on the DoT that Sinseeker leaves, but not the initial physical damage.

So BoP + Cloak will fully immune it.

[hollow river]

How often should I fok for poisons

[next solar]

you just can't soak with cloak

[hollow river]

Okay

[limber lion]

Can't really answer that question. Just make sure the poisons are up

You don't need to specifically FoK to keep them up

You can just tab target and melee or Mutilate

[hollow river]

Right

[spice spire]

Cloak removed the dot. But nothing works for the initial damage. Except cheat death BABY. Survived a sac arrow allay night as well

[limber lion]

On Huntsman you never FoK for example.

[pale fossil]

Anecdotally, as long as you're close to full, you can Cheat Death on the Sinseeker and Cloak to avoid the DoT finishing you off, but that's risky and shouldn't be planned around.

[limber lion]

Yeah, but in P3 you still die by the initial damage.

Or well, pop Cheat Death

[hollow dirge]

Would be a cool legendary - each bleed you apply counts towards venomous wounds

[pale fossil]

Yeah, I lived a P3 Sinseeker with Cheat Death last time I ran it, but that only worked as far as I know because I was almost full HP.

[spice spire]

P2 I was a soaker and just before sun seeker went off, our pally went down so I had no BoP. I’ve no idea how I didn’t die to the seeker there

[next solar]

I think over the course of the entire fight i had 5 FoK

[limber lion]

On my 10k pull I literally used FoK 0 times.

it's not needed whatsoever.

[burnt star]

even with 2 shade + boss + bear?

[hollow river]

Last night during raid my toon kept untargetting the bosses randomly.

[next solar]

i mean I wasn't saying it was needed, just that i did it

[hollow river]

Like even on ST so I know I wasn’t hitting tab

[hollow dirge]

Gotta be some macro

[limber lion]

Yep wasn't implying that.

[limber lion]

Make sure to have sticky targeting on.

[next solar]

looks like we both did 9.8k cev 😛

[hollow river]

Kk I just transferred servers yesterday

[limber lion]

Was my best pull only 9.8? fak

I'm trash

[hollow river]

Maybe my settings reset. All my add ons reset.

[next solar]

i wanted to try MFD

[spice spire]

Toxic

[pale fossil]

Where is Sticky Targeting? I've had this issue recently too actually.

[limber lion]

Interface

[hollow river]

Wow settings

[limber lion]

It's the very first thing when you open up Settings > Interface

Hope it fixes the issue for you!

[next solar]

@limber lion iqd gang with the giga execute

rockets that dps LMAO

[limber lion]

It's so dumb.

[next solar]

i went from 9.2 to like 9.6ish

[limber lion]

I always used my cooldowns with Marghore because I wanted to have double the bleeds for maximum energy regen during Vendetta window

But the damage amp is dumb

[next solar]

yeah

[pale fossil]

Oooh that reminds me. For purposes of IQD calculating your two highest stats, does it take into account things like Vantus and raid buffs? Or is it purely equipment substats?

[limber lion]

You definitely need to hold for it if you're looking to parse :p

[next solar]

parsing on that fight is pseudo cheesed

[limber lion]

No, but it does take into account things like food buff, soulbind effects (Theotar's umbrella for example)

[limber lion]

Definitely.

The more people die, the better parse you get :D

[next solar]

i just got iqd yesterday and im playing around with it. So many sim options

[limber lion]

It's a lot of fun

[pale fossil]

I used IQD on Outlaw so it's fun to have it actually be good haha

[next solar]

wait what

[pale fossil]

People say IQD isn't very good for Outlaw.

I used it in M+ anyway because I liked the utility.

[cosmic haven]

hey

what soulbind should i take for m+ ?

[spice spire]

What covenant are you?

[cosmic haven]

im reading, but cant find a definitive answer

as im venthyr

[spice spire]

I personally prefer nadjia double potency

[cosmic haven]

I was looking at draven

so thats out of the picture then?

and what is your 2nd potency conduit youre running then?

[spice spire]

Lashing scars and Poison Katar if you’re doing thicc pulls or lethal poisons as a generically good conduit

[gusty mirage]

Yeah draven sucks

[spice spire]

Draven is perma not an option on 9.0

[gusty mirage]

All of his abilities seem healer oriented

[limber lion]

Theotar with Wasteland.

It sims pretty much identically to Nadja double-pot, without taking into account the Vers you give to your team.

[cosmic haven]

is the 3% not neglible?

[spice spire]

Also good. Arguably better

For daunted duelist?

[limber lion]

DD is pretty bad for M+.

[spice spire]

That’s st and doesn’t apply to everyone it’s really bad for M+

[cosmic haven]

no i mean, the tea time 3%

[spice spire]

Ahhh

[cosmic haven]

i both got katar and lethal at 200 ilvl

[limber lion]

3% times 5 is 15%

Also our potencies are dog shit.

Like

Really bad

If Wasteland does the same damage as Nadja with double pot, why wouldn't you use Wasteland then?

It's the same damage + you get free vers for everyone

[cosmic haven]

true

[gusty mirage]

Wdym you don’t like 25 dps conduits?

[cosmic haven]

ill sim it

[limber lion]

Thrill Seeker procs at random points where you might not get any value out of it

Umbrella might be pretty scuffed as well

[cosmic haven]

can i sim dungeon slice

or doesnt that work for ass rogue

i know it doesnt work for boomies so

[gusty mirage]

Blizzard’s fascination with ground effect buffs is interesting seeing as everything requires movement these days

[limber lion]

Yes you should for us

[polar cape]

I still didn’t get around socketing draven kekw

[limber lion]

Dungeon Slice is really good for Rogues.

Our apl is tailored so it works well in DSlice as well.

It includes restealths and time to die variables.

[cosmic haven]

btw, why isnt hidden blades being reworked?

[spice spire]

Umbrella is hella scuffed is only reason I go double pot

[limber lion]

[cosmic haven]

its absoulutely dogshit

[limber lion]

So is Exsang

And Venom Rush

[polar cape]

Or venom rusg

[gusty mirage]

Because blizzard doesn’t like us

[polar cape]

Rush*

[spice spire]

Btw. Doesn’t mean I’m right here. Yeah our talents are actually hella scuffed in general

[cosmic haven]

well venom rush used to be great last xpansion at certain points

[timber basalt]

do 213 potency conduits actually drop anywhere

[spice spire]

No idea why conduits wouldn’t be the same

[limber lion]

It's never been great.

[gusty mirage]

Some drop in heroic raid

[limber lion]

It just didn't have better alternatives.

[cosmic haven]

thats what i meant :p

[limber lion]

With Alacrity you never take either ever.

[cosmic haven]

alactratirytrytri is just too good to pass on

[polar cape]

Alacrity actually the cursed talenr

[limber lion]

It's super boring

And super good.

[gusty mirage]

Legion venom rush was purty good iirc

[limber lion]

Yeh, that's the last time we used it.

[gusty mirage]

The bfa and sl iteration has been absolute trash

[polar cape]

It was extra energy on ticks tough or something in legion

[limber lion]

No

[gusty mirage]

Every 4 mutilates get one for free

[limber lion]

It's the literal same talent

[polar cape]

Oh my bad

[limber lion]

Nowadays we just have Poison Bomb on the last row

And Venom Rush is on the second to last row instead of TB

[cosmic haven]

ugh ! that green thing

that used to be something right

[limber lion]

It is just an awful talent.

[cosmic haven]

the 2nd from the right

i forgot the name

[limber lion]

That's Toxic Blade.

[cosmic haven]

it increased poison dmg right

why is it gone?

[limber lion]

Yes

it's not

It's baseline

It's called Shiv now

You don't talent into it anymore

It's baseline

[gusty mirage]

I’m pretty sure venom rush increased the energy from venomous wounds once upon a time

[cosmic haven]

it did ^

i can remember that

probs around mythic dazalor, when i stopped

playing the rouge

[limber lion]

Yeah in 7.0

In Emerald Nightmare it still did

[gusty mirage]

But it’s okay we have powerhouse options like exsang

[limber lion]

Actually now that you mention it

I'm giga wrong

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

It was like that for the entirety of Legion

WCL just uses the current iteration of Venomous Wounds

[gusty mirage]

Our talents are so incredibly funny

[cosmic haven]

wasnt exsang good at a certain point?

with loads of mastery

[polar cape]

@limber lion i was right doe the legion one XD

[spice spire]

One patch

[gusty mirage]

8.3 with stupid high haste

[spice spire]

Because we had absurd haste

[limber lion]

Yeah, just like I just said xd

[polar cape]

Oh i didnt scroll up

Im old

[rocky rain]

If rupture is getting close to pandemic, do you hold shiv to refresh it first?

So you dont have to rupture in shiv

[gusty mirage]

I would yes