assassination

[fallen arch]

I hate you

[ruby birch]

i hate the dagger

[rocky pecan]

Why you even keep that in bag?

[final star]

I'll just get 233 daggers from denathrius

[ruby birch]

haha

you dont

[final star]

that'll show u

[fallen arch]

I want 2 of those

[ruby birch]

wanna see my bags

[gusty mirage]

roster boss is the hardest boss for fringe CE guilds

[ruby birch]

im constantly trash talked for my bags

[rocky pecan]

True I won't see your bag kek

[ruby birch]

because its full of conduits and legendary powers and random shit gear

i have like 6 of each conduit sitting in my bags

[final star]

I'll have you know I'm in a top 6000 raiding guild

[rocky pecan]

6 of each conduit?

[ruby birch]

not every single rogue conduit

exaggeration

[gusty mirage]

the fact that my guild is 4584th in the world and 1615th in the US is so fucking sad lmao

[rocky pecan]

What you mean can't drop in raid conduits if you got already in conv

[ruby birch]

i dont have them in

[final star]

kind of a big deal tbh

[ruby birch]

the only ones i have in are the ones i use

[rocky pecan]

Pure trolling kek

[gusty mirage]

and we're just awful

[final star]

what are ur parses

alongside that

[gusty mirage]

got some degenerate ass parses because I randomly started getting PI, but they're okay-ish

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/area-52/oxxi#

[gusty mirage]

feel free to comb through them and see my fucked up rotation

[final star]

we kill shriekwing slow

idk why

[gusty mirage]

yeah we got you beat by 1 minute on our best shriek kill

[final star]

this week we'll body it

loads more gear

6/10 so everyone should get a 226

[ruby birch]

OH YEAH

VAULT IS SOON

[ruby birch]

council chest piece

pls

[final star]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/tarren-mill/pirated#

[gusty mirage]

that xymox 70% I was one of 4 people left alive

[ruby birch]

uve got some sockets

damn

[gusty mirage]

also wtf are you degenerates doing on huntsman where 7800 dps is a fucking 83%

[ruby birch]

just dots on dogs

and funnel envenoms into huntsguy

[burnt star]

Ya basicly

Also lust on pull

[final star]

so huntsman is about lust

[gusty mirage]

[final star]

literally

if you get lust in cd's

[gusty mirage]

I'm actually so unhappy about my parses

I feel like I could do better

[final star]

that's why my firs thuntsman

is so high

go look at lust timing

[ruby birch]

i cant even parse on sun king as sin cuz im too ass at sin aoe

[burnt star]

Sun king doesnt count

[ruby birch]

yeah but

my logs show

[final star]

when I do 600k more damage than pottm cos he's undergeared as fuck

[burnt star]

Theres no but :)

[gusty mirage]

that 90% was with Poison Bomb

I actually want to try to get some sub parses in mythic

idc if its troll

[ruby birch]

i love sub but like

[gusty mirage]

feels bad that all my sub parses died in normal

[ruby birch]

some fights are so fucking sad

[gusty mirage]

council made me switch outlaw

it was so fucking miserable as sub

[ruby birch]

the 1 sin parse

[gusty mirage]

you can see my transition from sub -> outlaw -> assa on raid difficulty

normal: sub parses w/ higher outlaw parses, heroic: mostly outlaw, mythic: mostly assa

[ruby birch]

sadge

[odd hazel]

I started out sub, I applaud the people who’ve stuck with it

[gusty mirage]

Normal:

[ruby birch]

i love sub too much to leave it

[gusty mirage]

heroic

[ruby birch]

get more sub parses

[final star]

fuck hungering

[gusty mirage]

btw managed a 99 on heroic sludge and my outlaw tdps is trash now

[final star]

all my homies hate hungering

[odd hazel]

Hungering is easy though. ( is that mythic or heroic ? )

[final star]

heroic

[gusty mirage]

I tried going outlaw for a heroic sire kill for my pvp buddies and jesus

I'm so bad at it now

[final star]

I just don't like the fight design

for hungering

[odd hazel]

You just stack and move beams out

That’s what my group does at least

[gusty mirage]

yeah heroic hungering is such a roflstomp

[final star]

heroic is a stomp

[gusty mirage]

heroic sire is still a bitch

[final star]

it's just the only non-orange I care about on hc rn

even then

[gusty mirage]

and somehow gets harder with more gear

[final star]

it's only hc

mythic way more annoying

[gusty mirage]

stopping DPS is literally aids

[ruby birch]

my heroic is like

literally all sub

[odd hazel]

My group can’t seem to stop dieing on p3 sire. Had to go pug AoTc

[final star]

Never had to stop dps on sire

[ruby birch]

i dont even think ive done any heroic kills

as sin

[final star]

97 aka like

[ruby birch]

nvm i did a sire one when i was first trying sin

we dont talk about that

[odd hazel]

I’m prob gonna gear sub up incase it’s top tier. Pretty much stuck at 218 until vault or ksm

[final star]

rank 20 of 600

[gusty mirage]

78 isn't bad

[ruby birch]

no this was very early

when everyone was sub

[gusty mirage]

are you EU or NA?

[final star]

everyone was sub>

?

[ruby birch]

yes

early on

[final star]

I seem to recall being

the overwhelming majority being outlaw

[ruby birch]

it was mainly sub then outlaw

[odd hazel]

NA oxi

[gusty mirage]

If NA I'll help you out w/ KSM on my vdh

[odd hazel]

Don’t lie to me lmao

[ruby birch]

@final star

[gusty mirage]

oxi#1489

add me (:

[ruby birch]

sub only truly fell in numbers massively around 9.0.5

[odd hazel]

DUDE I’m donating plasma right now, once I’m home adding you

[gusty mirage]

just need a healer I can trust because I like to do degenerate pulls

[gusty mirage]

if I still have my cheat death and meta it's a-okay in my books

[ruby birch]

is that a 9.0.5 parse

[final star]

no

[ruby birch]

9.0??

[final star]

yes

[ruby birch]

i dont recall there being that many 9.0 outlaw parses on sire

weird

[final star]

OH

[ruby birch]

that looks like all

[final star]

sire

[ruby birch]

ye the one i linked was sire

on heroic

in 9.0

[ruby birch]

yeah see

[final star]

50% more

[ruby birch]

it was rather close to sub numbers

i mean yeah but

cant say nobody was playing sub in 9.0

[final star]

definitely not saying that

cos I was at first

sub was not the most populous rogue spec

[odd hazel]

Is there any other way to tank though

[ruby birch]

yeah maybe not the most, but i know it was close with outlaw

and sin wasnt played

[gusty mirage]

if I'm iffy about the healer I pull like a little bitch tbh

[final star]

sin was ded

[ruby birch]

@final star what was the one you linked?

with 40k or w/e

45k

[final star]

shriekwing

first boss

good gauge of how many total on first boss tbf

[final star]

hc gamers

[ruby birch]

huge gamers

[final star]

more focus on mythic for guild gonna be good

2 day raiding limited time

6/10 in 3 weeks on 2 day raiding not so bad

[ruby birch]

yeah is pretty good

[final star]

just wanna kill denathrius before next patch

not expecting it

but hopeful

[ruby birch]

you can prob do it

next patch is in like

another month and a half or smth

[spice spire]

Yeah I was going to say papi nathrius is a stretch. 6/10 is when it starts being pretty sketch

[ruby birch]

i think like 7/10 it gets a bit sketch

[spice spire]

Council into sludge into legion

[ruby birch]

then SLG is a fucking scuffed ass fight

[spice spire]

Yeah SLG is the one I’m like. I really don’t want this

[ruby birch]

i dont feel that its just

its annoying to me

cuz the fight is quite literally

bugged

[spice spire]

It’s infinitely less bugged than it originally was

[final star]

@spice spirewe have very good players in guild

[spice spire]

At least

[final star]

so it's definitely possible

[spice spire]

I mean 3 weeks and 6/10 is really good. We’re 5 weeks in (or I am) and 5/10. And I felt a boss a week was good prog

Xymox time this week

[ruby birch]

xymox tends to be rough for people

[final star]

we killed xymox on 13th pull

[ruby birch]

i think we had like

an insane amount of pulls on xymox

maybe 50+

weird ass numbers i had during prog

killed sun king on first pull

[burnt star]

Little trick on hungering. U should keep dps and stay on first consume. Your cloak of shadow works for that

And on heroic. U can also yolo the 2nd consume and heal with crimson vial + healtstone + healtpot and keep dps

[ruby birch]

i would much rather just do consume

[burnt star]

U wont even die.. and who cares if u barely heal the boss. Hc heroic at this point is a joke

[ruby birch]

and cloak a miasma + expunge

at least on mythic

[burnt star]

I mean. If u want to parse on heroic hungering.. thats what u need to do :)

[final star]

some of our raiders are ex top 10

they were in ScrubBusters

well, they ran scrubbusters that is

[indigo mulch]

pft

everyone knows that cloak is a dps cooldown.

[burnt star]

It is :) more uptime

[final star]

Definitely is on hc

And some mythic bosses tbh

[odd hazel]

It makes p3 sire easier

Because who needs to dodge anything

[rain mortar]

226 overcharged anima battery in my bags or a 213 hateful chain.... hmmm

in vault*

[ornate dawn]

Neither - farm out IQD and level it to 220 😄

[rain mortar]

im currently using a 184 phial and the darkmoon deck lmao

[ornate dawn]

Chain beats out anima charge on here at least https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/trinkets/1t-t26-assassination

But hey sim it I guess ^

[rain mortar]

yeah in my sim it says to use chain and darkmoon deck - but I think if I take phial to 220

it would probably battery and phial

[ornate dawn]

If it were me I'd max phial if youve got the valor to drop, or try and farm it out at at a higher level then upgrade

[rain mortar]

I just know im gonna take the chain and then get it in a drop tonight lmao

[odd hazel]

a 223 weap boys

tanglewood thorn

[limber swallow]

ugh.. another 226 ooze.. looks like I'm getting stygia this week

[odd hazel]

@gusty mirage added!

[ornate dawn]

Wait where are you getting vault already

[odd hazel]

NA

[ornate dawn]

Oh of course ignore me

Ive been stuck on 220 weps for months, wish me luck for tomorrow

[odd hazel]

its the first weap i've seen out of vault

:^) also means i have two tanglewood daggers now

a 223 and 213

[alpine latch]

So while we know Sin can run 25s, I'm surprised that more Sin rogues aren't.

Is the damage just not there? Or not consistent enough?

Sin just feels so much smoother and easier to pull off than Outlaw. Outlaw I feel like a fucking crackhead while playing it.

[odd hazel]

because its meta

[next solar]

what are peoples thoughts on IQD?

[odd hazel]

it can be good if you can manage to get the stat every proc

its better then dreadfire for me at 220.

even at 213 i believe if i remember right

Holy--- a 10 ilvl upgrade on a dagger was huge.

[alpine latch]

I went from a 187 OH to a 220 OH dagger

It was a massive difference, lol

[sonic schooner]

dw kalidus, never got a 226 weap since the begining of the expa feelsbadman

[ornate dawn]

Im deleting system32 if I dont get one in the vault

[odd hazel]

tbh, ive never thought about it but

[sonic schooner]

neither a 226 phial

[odd hazel]

is MH or OH damage more important or does it not matter

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sonic schooner]

main feet is more important

[wintry vector]

so i got to ask what is the BIS leggo for assa ?

[odd hazel]

Doom for ST, Zold for M+

[wintry vector]

okai thx 😄

and covenant ?

and what is the best spec for m+ right now ?

[ornate dawn]

Fire mage 😄

[wintry vector]

as a rogue D:

[ornate dawn]

Outlaw

[odd hazel]

necro is best for M+/but you can also go venth

Outlaw if you're more focused on M+ with necro.

but you can also play necro sin and do well in M+

[wintry vector]

im venthyr right now

[odd hazel]

you can do well as venth too but your damage will be more priority and boss damage

[wintry vector]

but my focus is more raids

[odd hazel]

venth is fine then

[wintry vector]

thx 😄

alot 😄 ❤️

[ornate dawn]

I run Theotar venth, with crit mastery gear in m+ works pretty well, only doing 15's/16's tho

[stoic needle]

It's the bis trinket for sin

[spice spire]

BiS is a stretch. It’s top 2 though

[shy dust]

How is it not BiS

[spice spire]

Crit has to be top stat for maximum efficiency doesn’t it?

[shy dust]

Yes

[stoic needle]

that's not that hard to do tbh

[spice spire]

I’d say that phial is de facto bis then. If something needs “x thing to happen” over generically top. I’d label the generically top bis.

[odd hazel]

i mean

theres 2 trinkets

phial + IQD are BiS

if you really dont like IQD, just get dreadfire

[stoic needle]

double 226 now

[odd hazel]

OSSHH we got the same thing but you got 3 ilvl higher

[spice spire]

The argument is semantics. IQD is very good and if your stats are lined up and correct it’s absolutely slotting in

[stoic needle]

[next solar]

"stats are lined up and correct" can you ellaborate?

[stoic needle]

the 223 one is getting lightless slapped on it

for m+

[odd hazel]

pretty much every sin rogue is crit/haste

[wintry vector]

man i cant even get a 200 wep D;:

[serene wyvern]

is there a haste cap?

[spice spire]

the big stat proc goes with your top stat (meaning the stat with the most points in it) if that stat is haste, IQD loses a LOT of efficiency and makes it slightly worse than dreadfire iirc

[next solar]

no

[spice spire]

No

[odd hazel]

who has that much haste though as sin

[spice spire]

But if it’s crit, it skyrockets above most trinkets

[spice spire]

[shy dust]

Iqd picks your top 2 stats by rating

For stats

In lust it picks your top stat

[odd hazel]

so you would just use it before lust pops

[shy dust]

Why

Iqd with lust lasts 5 seconds longer

[odd hazel]

wouldnt you get more value out of the crit then haste even with lust

[spice spire]

674 haste gamer btw

[shy dust]

Well youd be rnging it being haste or crit

And you’d lose 5 seconds of it

[stoic needle]

technically i have 715 haste atm

[odd hazel]

Fair enough

[stoic needle]

cuz im not venthyr anymore

[odd hazel]

750 right now for me

[next solar]

im at 817 haste D: howver resimming sockets

[limber lion]

Better weapons than me :(

[stoic needle]

my parses are still trash tho

[limber lion]

Ya'll getting huge upgrades

[rustic whale]

is there any recommended Haste for Venthry rogues?

[limber lion]

Love to see it

[rustic whale]

like %20 or %25

[stoic needle]

this upgrade was only 5 dps

[limber lion]

No, under 20 is good

[next solar]

@rustic whale no

[odd hazel]

i rock about 30% crit and 23% haste.

[odd hazel]

around 23% haste seems to be the good point honestly. verse is slowly gaining on it

[spice spire]

Imma quote guy here and say “the less you focus on stats the better you play”

[rustic whale]

i m trying to figure out my stats within 2 days , iş have %29 haste and %25 crit but i can go %30 crit and %24 haste simming is just too complicated

[stoic needle]

the only stat that matters is mastery

[odd hazel]

are you venth?

[stoic needle]

hmm but you should just sim that

[rustic whale]

yes i m venth

[odd hazel]

go the crit option

and sim it

[spice spire]

Stop this

[rustic whale]

any suggestion for sim ? should it be Patchwerk 5mins?

[odd hazel]

yes

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s a fine sim for now

[limber lion]

I mean crit wins for me at 15% haste :-D

[rustic whale]

i m taking 7kdps with current stats gonna check that crit build

[odd hazel]

crit still wins for me at 23% haste

[next solar]

sim with and without wf too

[rustic whale]

will do

thank you

[next solar]

lot of peeps wonder why they dont get close to their sim dps on ST when WF is defaulted on in their sims and they dont play with an enhance lol

[rustic whale]

yeah we dont have ench shaman in our raid

[next solar]

granted, i dont remember the difference for assass but its pretty big for outlaw

[rustic whale]

hell even yesterday we dont even had warr lol

[odd hazel]

YOOOO dude, i didnt even realize that lmao

[next solar]

its at least 100 dps

on sim

[spice spire]

Yeah you need monk - warrior - enh sham to have max efficiency for melee

[shy dust]

Like 150 for assa

[next solar]

sheeeeeeee

[rustic whale]

yeah gonna check that crit build

[next solar]

what is this "crit build"?

[spice spire]

Idt dh effects poison damage so that should be it

[rustic whale]

for myself :d

[next solar]

oh

[spice spire]

Crit gems > haste I assume

[next solar]

eks dee

[shy dust]

There is no crit build

[next solar]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5BQZK9dgMyquxD7PNh8JJS all 3 pieces are within a few dps of each other >.<

[shy dust]

Iqd just gains more value if it gives crit in lust

[odd hazel]

i thinjk he just means having more crit then haste

[next solar]

yeah

[stoic needle]

you're crazy if you don't take the iqd

[spice spire]

^

Even if not lined up perfectly rn. It’s so GIGA once you are

[stoic needle]

you already have 226 chest and head

and skulkers is trash for sin

[wooden knot]

I've heard really different opinions on IQD - but, in general, we like it?

[spice spire]

WAIT THIS IS REPLACING SKULKERS? Auto slam

Ye

[stoic needle]

it's bis

[wooden knot]

bis st or bis in m+ too?

[stoic needle]

bis for venthyr and 2nd bis for other covenants

yes it's bis in m+ too

[ornate dawn]

Having a Raidbots account for instant sims oh feelsgoodman

[stoic needle]

imagine not having raidbots premium

[odd hazel]

imagine paying for not wasting 5 minutes

[next solar]

only reason im debating is because i play outlaw a fair amount as well

[wooden knot]

do yall always shiv at 4-5 combo points or just when it comes up? (assuming you've pooled enery)

[next solar]

I just witsh heraldry wasn't doodoo

[stoic needle]

when it comes up

[odd hazel]

i only use my 220 herald if my tanks ask me too

[stoic needle]

it's not about wasting 5 minutes, it's that you can't properly sim gem/enchants without premium because of the iteration limit

[limber lion]

?? Exactly. The more haste you have, the worse it gets and the better crit becomes.

[stoic needle]

i wouldn't use heraldry even if my tank asked me to

[odd hazel]

i think i mis-read what you said tbh

[limber lion]

Crit being ahead of my 15% haste is the odd part

[odd hazel]

i mean with the amount of people we have with it, its better then my decanter lmao

[limber lion]

Yeh

[odd hazel]

why is it so far ahead?

also

you're a filthy blood elf

[stoic needle]

alliance

[shy dust]

[stoic needle]

[odd hazel]

mechagnome ftw

[stoic needle]

mechagnome is literally worst in slot race

[odd hazel]

who lied to you

[spice spire]

Imma need you to hop off the TL, chief

[odd hazel]

are you mad because i get extra primary stat?

or is it my 226 gloves osh?

[spice spire]

I’m mad because diaper baby race

[stoic needle]

I wouldn't play mechagnome even if it was a 100 dps increase because they're so ugly

sorry i can't hear you over my double 226 weapons

[odd hazel]

imagine playing a crystal addict

[stoic needle]

wow addict

mana addict

what's the difference

[spice spire]

Can’t hear you over 226 gloves

[odd hazel]

[stoic needle]

shoulder doombladers

[slender berry]

youre ugly

[stoic needle]

do you need someone to change your diaper?

[odd hazel]

need someone to get you into rehab?

[stoic needle]

i can stop stacking mastery whenever i want

[gusty mirage]

I’ll accept when I get home from work

[spice spire]

Assassination went so toxic so quick

[spice spire]

That’s cap

[stoic needle]

some babies just can't handle the truth

[slender berry]

says u

[odd hazel]

some people just cant accept their beauty doesnt help them do more damage

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

Better transmog = better damage

These are facts of the world

[odd hazel]

WHY YOU SO TOXIC OSH

[stoic needle]

facts

📠

[spice spire]

No 🖨?

[stoic needle]

out of ink bruh

[spice spire]

[slender berry]

no shot you think this is ugly

[odd hazel]

fight me

[ornate dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-david-shittscreek-gif-15625591

[slender berry]

ok cmon @odd hazel you proved his point

[odd hazel]

did i

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-christian-crazychristianlady-gif-5397645

[ornate dawn]

What is wrong with you all?

[odd hazel]

Fuckin yikes as a void elf too.

[stoic needle]

the things people will do for 50 sim dps

[odd hazel]

like wear gloves that arent 226?

[stoic needle]

yeah like 235 ones

also debase themselves by playing mechagnome

[odd hazel]

i also have a emergency heal

fight me osh

duel me right now, duel me outside how bout that

[eternal vortex]

i know im gonna seems stupid but i have to ask it is there any huge diff between MA and zoldyck in m+ or its just preference?

[stoic needle]

just don't get hit

[slender berry]

ok as a mechagnome I have to admit that heal is kinda useless

[stoic needle]

zoldyck is generally better, it has a better damage profile and isn't reliant on restealths and doesn't suffer on spiteful weeks

[eternal vortex]

thank you sir

[limber lion]

Imagine not being a chad blood elf since tbc

[odd hazel]

imagine being a chad

[ornate dawn]

If your not a belf with wound dressing shirt I dont even know

[craggy oak]

If im running zoldyck, is there any merrit to suberfuge over MA talent

For st

[next solar]

no

[ornate dawn]

Single target you'd want doomblade tho

[next solar]

unless sire and youre focuusing specifically p3 damage

dont be like me either and take PB over CT

[craggy oak]

Very helpfull kallidus

[stoic needle]

you wish you were a stacy

subterfuge is worse for sire p3 though

[odd hazel]

tbh, i feel like i'd waste CT on heroic sire.

[next solar]

yeah, I was refering to taking zoldyck for ST p3 damage over DB

[stoic needle]

ah okay

[thorny pond]

Someone parse with like blood fang or dashing

We need some chaos around here

[odd hazel]

is there a reason people play dashing

[cerulean nest]

no vault upgrades for a full month. you love to see it

at least I got a ring with 150 mastery

[odd hazel]

Osh is that you

[limber lion]

They want to.

[odd hazel]

no like, is it genuinely better then doom at something?

[stoic needle]

the only use case i can find for dashing is when you have to frequently target swap to priority adds

in which case you can do full damage with your envenom instead of needing to gar+rup to do full damage with envenom

(compared to doomblade)

[stoic needle]

just wait until i reclear bro, instructor's divine bell on all bosses

whispyr will mald into oblivion

[thorny pond]

I hope

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

That’s enough assassination channel for today buddy

Time to take the nonsense into off topic

[thorny pond]

I love it. Bell and IQD

I'll raid with my Necro warrior for you @stoic needle

[limber lion]

You'd still run the same talents as with Doomblade. The gap between CT and PB becomes smaller, so on some fights CT can be the preferred choice.

[stoic needle]

[ornate gazelle]

!bis

oh

are there bis lists anywhere?

[austere gorge]

What should i cast first? Vendetta or Shiv ?

[wary ice]

not a choice tbh vendettas off GCD

nvm sorry you're asking if its worth to shiv in vendetta or not

[dreamy vessel]

hey, im newer to assasination. i just crafted scoundrel, but im not sure how it works in AoE. does applying my poisons and then casting one envenom on one target increase the crit chance of all the poisons on all targets or just the target i cast envenom on?

[austere gorge]

yah

is it worth to shiv during vendetta ?

[wary ice]

I do

[limber lion]

No, you should use Top Gear and Droptimizer in Raidbots.com to sim yourself instead.

[limber lion]

You should always use Shiv during Vendetta.

With every Vendetta, no exceptions.

[ornate gazelle]

@limber lion I do, but there's no longer titanforging so there's a perfect combination of gear, just curious if it's compiled somewhere.

[limber lion]

Everything around you.

[limber lion]

Sure, but it changes depending on talents, covenant, encounter etc.

What's bis on 5 min patchwork isn't bis on 3 min 2 target.

[dreamy vessel]

thank you!

[ornate gazelle]

Well I'd assume the bis list would be labeled "single target" and stuff.

[wooden sun]

What legendary should I craft for raid sin?

[ornate gazelle]

Like bis lists used to do.

[limber lion]

Doomblade.

[wooden sun]

Shoulders and crit/haste?

[limber lion]

Bis lists are useless. They literally require you to have every single item in the set to be considered the "bis set".

[ornate gazelle]

Well yeah

I can sim stuff as I get there.

[limber lion]

Changing just one item will change the stats and thus the items would change.

[ornate gazelle]

But having the list is the goal.

[limber lion]

You know what you can do as well?

Just get all 226 items

Regardless of what they are

And then sim yourself.

When you're at 7.2k, then you can start working towards "bis".

[ornate gazelle]

Lol thanks for the info

[limber lion]

You pay way too much attention to bis

Because it's not bis for you

It's bis for 5 min patchwork

[odd hazel]

i just sim every thing i get tbh

[limber lion]

Changing one ring in the "bis set" will provide worse results than just simming yourself

[limber lion]

Gloves, crit/haste yes.

[burnt star]

Ty rng jesus!!!

[limber lion]

Grats!

[wooden sun]

oops its on shoulders

[limber lion]

That's fine if you're not planning on killing Mythic Stone Legion Generals.

[wooden sun]

I'll just recraft it next week

[limber lion]

Would not recommend doing that

It makes literally no difference if you don't have 233 shoulders.

They have the same stats.

[wooden sun]

I'll craft it again if I get the SLG shoulders I guess

[cerulean nest]

got a 226 ring with helllllla mastery. but it replaces my last 220 (sims like 15 dps lower than the 220). do I take it or bow down to the sims

[limber lion]

Honestly just take it. If it's 15 dps lower on patchwork, it's nothing.

It'll pop off in AoE instead.

[cerulean nest]

true

[grand ridge]

Bis used to matter because there were only like 2 of each slot to obtain

[limber lion]

Yeh exactly. And some of the items used to be op.

With unique effects and whatnot

[grand ridge]

With m+, raid, pvp gear all being good options there are so many different combinations of gear that will still put you at ~226 ilvl

[limber lion]

Now the items are all generic with just secondaries and nothing else.

[strange python]

hey so I dont use blindside alot, what fights would you use it im not really familair with it

[fierce eagle]

is there an easy way to sim different conduits (sf/wps/lp) in raidbots without me needing to change them? not seeing anywhere on there to change the conduits easily for simming.

[limber lion]

On single target encounters.

[spice spire]

Top gear lets you do that

[fierce eagle]

appreciate it @spice spire

[strange python]

sweet thanks man I jsut came back a month ago so still checking things out

[limber lion]

Just use Top Gear for everything

[spice spire]

Anytime papi

[limber lion]

No worries buddy!

[strange python]

[limber lion]

You should check out https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#class=Rogue&spec=Assassination

There you can find what setups people are using for which fights.

[strange python]

Yeh I saw that blindside was being used on alot of single target fights so I was wondering if that was why it was used or for additional reasons

good stuff thanks man

[limber lion]

Yeah. It's generally used for pure ST, but whenever you add multiple targets it loses value and EP gains value.

[strange python]

gotcha gotcha

[limber lion]

It's often played alongside Deeper Stratagem, which requires quite a bit of haste to get rolling.

[strange python]

I remember in BFA never using it xD nice to be able to use it now

[stoic needle]

you might as well recraft now before you waste more ash

[limber lion]

Or just, playing a Venthyr.

[stoic needle]

cuz the same thing will persist into 9.1

with extra on top because of the domination sockets

[burnt star]

At least on 9.1 ull be able to farm rank 4 fast

[wooden sun]

Well its only r1 atm

Will do it tomorrow after reset

[stoic needle]

yeah, just recraft

[cerulean nest]

about how much? just switched to necro so it hasnt been something i've been worried about till now

[strange python]

run crimson tempest for multiple targets and poison bomb for single target or is there benefit in running CT on single

[limber lion]

It depends on everything, you have to sim it yourself. Just playing EP/Vigor as Necrolord is a safebet for most fights honestly.

[cerulean nest]

for sure

[limber lion]

CT is used for Sire because of heavy movement and because of multiple targets in P2. Generally on ST you'd still want PB every time.

CT was only used in ST when we had 70% haste baseline :p

But it's not far off now with Zoldyck. Could be seeing play in some fights with Zoldyck in 9.1

[strange python]

ok sweet, and if I have a fuckton of crit would it theoretically be more dps to run with Deeper Strategem. I know I would have to sim it but more crit makes up for the haste right?

[limber lion]

Well it really depends on other stuff as well, like the legendary choice and covenant.

But as Venthyr you usually want a bunch of crit and default to using DS/BS

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[carmine token]

!oil

[wraith lance]

yo is there a cap, besides diminishing returns, on haste? like is there a sweet-spot you want to ALWAYS be in? Regardless of your other stats?

[limber lion]

No, there are no haste caps or breakpoints.

You should just sim yourself.

There's a pin about it, that's a good place to look as well.

It's my favorite pin.

[wraith lance]

Oh this was mostly to prove my point

in a discussion, im on your side

^^, ty

[limber lion]

Good stuff, glad to hear it. :p

Prove those suckers wrong.

[wary ice]

Just tell those suckers to check the pins bro

[wraith lance]

Ouf. Noted

🙂

[burnt star]

No no.no. u need 1000 of every stat. Or gtfo :)

😅 just kidding

[teal bloom]

Are you guys using some kind of mouse over macros?

[limber lion]

Not really. Some people prefer using mouseover macros for MFD/SBS

Or kicks.

I don't use any personally

[wary ice]

I also don't use any

Mo macros are for when you need to do something without losing your target, imo

[burnt star]

I only use mfd m.o macro.
Got used to it with spiteful early in the patch. Now i dont want to play without it

[halcyon falcon]

for M+, considering Zoldyck's or Master A. anyone used both and able to give me any feedback?

[teal bloom]

I thought sbs mouseover macro could be useful for not losing auto damage if the target is out of range :D but that is probably not a lot of damage you'd lose and I've never used them

[limber lion]

Yes. MA with NS/MFD/CT is great for lower keys, but you should definitely just run the normal Zoldyck setup on higher keys. (EP/Subt/Vig/CT)

They do similar damage, but Zoldyck is just more balanced, doesn't rely on stealth openers and just more consistent.

[balmy condor]

Zoldyck is less reliant on restealths

And that’s basically it

Damage wise very similar otherwise

[halcyon falcon]

Zold on legs I assume?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[burnt star]

Wait. Why is outlaw above my assa rank. Just realised

[halcyon falcon]

crit/haste or crit/?

[limber lion]

Crit/Haste is great.

[limber lion]

[burnt star]

Where is the bot i need to fix this

There we go

[limber lion]

A red boy

[burnt star]

Dont want to be treated as a outlaw main tsss

Left the nest long ago

[balmy condor]

It’s just how discord ranks work, one has to be above the other, and the one on top overwrites the colors below

The layout is sub on top, outlaw in the middle, sin on the bottom

So if you have sub, the other colors won’t show, if you have outlaw, sin won’t show

[burnt star]

Yep thx :) just tested it

[faint harness]

Reversed reality

[balmy condor]

Nah the reality is always outlaw top

[cerulean nest]

does anyone ever find themselves randomly (pretty seldom but still noticeably) switching targets without pressing tab or anything? can't tell if its a bug or some ability or what

but it's fucked me on council a few times where i dont realize its happened right away and im dpsing the wrong guy

[final star]

finally beat my record for dps in mists

[shy dust]

That’s not even assa

[limber lion]

[final star]

[limber lion]

Lookie I did the same amount as Assa

[final star]

your group is a bit better than the one I had

[spice spire]

Big papi gamer

[limber lion]

Yeh this group was blasting

[odd heath]

I play more outlaw on keys, but my best overall was as assassination lol

[limber lion]

They were full premade and I was an outcast

[final star]

better players = more dps overall

well, the people in my key were 200 alts

[limber lion]

Which difficulty was it?

A weekly no leavers?

[final star]

guild key

[final star]

15

[odd heath]

Mists 16

[limber lion]

Yeh.

My key was a HoA 20, so it's different.

[shy dust]

That mage

Was afk

Wtf

[spice spire]

4.5k monk gaming

[shy dust]

Both of those mages were

[limber lion]

Most pug mages are tbf

Ye

[odd heath]

Ye

[limber lion]

He beat me though, I did around 1.2m with the gargoyle boy.

[odd heath]

With a good mage, we can't farm aoe dps fast enough

[spice spire]

10% gargoyle damage

[odd heath]

Everything melts

[next solar]

that monk >.>

[odd heath]

Mystic touch machine lol

[balmy condor]

Mystic touch for the tank and half of the rogue

[next solar]

resimming and it looks like the 220 phial and iqd are just about even for my current set up https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f1FGBo2V1vGhLUiWi9f55v

[stoic needle]

if you ever swap back to venthyr iqd will be better

[next solar]

swap back? Never have been

[stoic needle]

lol fair enough

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t take the IQD

[odd heath]

I don't like the iqd shenanigans tbh

[next solar]

Ive heard its horror stories

[balmy condor]

I don’t mind the shenanigans

[stoic needle]

the only fight i haven't been able to get good use out of iqd on is slg

[balmy condor]

It’s overblown tbh

[stoic needle]

if you use the weakaura it's almost impossible to fuck it up

[balmy condor]

But I still wouldn’t take it according to that sim

[next solar]

well like i said, the 220 phial is a single dps over it and id take a better controlled variable over iqd

[balmy condor]

Yea

For sure

[next solar]

lottery parse potential tho

[spice spire]

100% I’m on the phial is bis train

But these absolute sinning gamblers

[next solar]

oh if i had a 226 phial this wouldn't even be a convo

[spice spire]

It’s still very good at a certain point. I’d hold onto it

[odd heath]

Phial + dreadfire always here. Double on use for sludge only

[gloomy fern]

not taking 226 iqd for r1 cheese logs

[shy dust]

[stoic needle]

i'd still take the iqd because its rare

[spice spire]

^

[stoic needle]

and you can farm a phial

belts are a dime a dozen

[spice spire]

Specific trinkets are impossibly rare. And phial IQD is the GOAT combo

[next solar]

chest tho our guild has never seen drop

doesn't matter, already picked iqd earlier...REEEEE

[spice spire]

Huge W in chat

[slow marsh]

I got 226 shadow totem today

kinda lit actually

[spice spire]

That’s also a pretty Deece trinket

[next solar]

the phial didn't sim in the original sim because im an ape and forgot to swap back trinkets

[spice spire]

This week is trinket week

[balmy condor]

Is IQD more rare

I’m kinda doubting it tbh

[gloomy fern]

dos just more annoying to farm i guess, more specs can drop it though

[next solar]

last week was trinket week

[slow marsh]

I would take that stone legion any day

[next solar]

I already have 2

[slow marsh]

then nvm

[gloomy fern]

stone legion legit worst shit ever

[slow marsh]

LOL

[next solar]

^^^

gotta have that in bag ilvl

[slow marsh]

its not though ? lol

[stoic needle]

i'd love to have a 226 chain

but i don't reclear

[slow marsh]

i mean sure 226 chain

[next solar]

its not bad, but there are a lot better trinkets

[spice spire]

SLH full group is not bad actually

But yeah

[stoic needle]

stone legion just means you have to trade dreadfire if it drops for you

[slow marsh]

yeah SLH full group

[stoic needle]

slh full group still loses to the bis trinkets

[spice spire]

Good joke

[next solar]

full group 233 still sims lower than 220 phial/226 chain

[balmy condor]

Stone legion is a garbo trinket

[slow marsh]

BUT SLH WAS ON WHISPYR'S BIS LIST

[balmy condor]

Not sure why you would want it

[balmy condor]

It was not

[next solar]

because

233

[balmy condor]

My bis list was phial/dreadfire

[gloomy fern]

how naive

[slow marsh]

You had an asterick

[gloomy fern]

not trusting the power of our lord and saviour iqd

[spice spire]

My options at the time were a 207 dreadfire a 213 Inerva trinket and that. That’s why I used it

[slow marsh]

saying full group slh

was competitive

dont lie

[spice spire]

And it was a full group SLH

[next solar]

a group of 10 year olds can be competitive

[balmy condor]

I mean with the IQD fix IQD is definitely better as a second

[next solar]

doesn't mean theyre still good

[balmy condor]

Competitive = bis

Today I lurned

[spice spire]

Now I’m rocking the infamous 226 IDO

Which is also a pretty shit trinket

[balmy condor]

I had to add that asterisk because people went “BUT THE SLH WITH THE GROUP DID YOU SIM GROUP THE FULL GROUP IS FULL GROUP”

[slow marsh]

I mean it was before trink buffs so i guess

[balmy condor]

Trinket buffs buffed everything by roughly the same amount

It didn’t change any rankings

[shy dust]

Believe in Iqd

And it will guide you home

[stoic needle]

If anything it made flat stat trinkets worse

[balmy condor]

The fix is in nightly btw idk if I told you

[polar cape]

@shy dust or execute something in the way home <.<

[limber lion]

Ye we figured it out.

[stoic needle]

The execute is 20k damage

[limber lion]

I got my sim to 7.1k

[stoic needle]

Idk why you'd complain about 20k damage

That's more than most trinkets

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s worse than the alternative

[shy dust]

Yeah I saw

[stoic needle]

Sure but it's not like you do zero damage

[shy dust]

Execute never happens

Just target yourself

[polar cape]

True

[shy dust]

Execute can be nice

Just nuke huntsman for like 50k in exposed phase

[limber lion]

Ye

It's nuts

[slow marsh]

that's my point about before trink buffs

[gloomy fern]

killing huntsman before 3 min

[limber lion]

:(

[shy dust]

Our fastest huntsman kill was 2:52

Was very painful for my Iqd

[polar cape]

Thats rough

[gloomy fern]

same with dfv dont get third one in

is the kill timer wa accurate?

on huntsman for example do it take vuln phase in to account and shit

[shy dust]

P1 lasted like 23 seconds

Which is hilarious

It adjusts itself over a bit of time

But no if the boss is at 15%

It doesn’t know at 10% boss takes double danage

[gloomy fern]

unlucky

[shy dust]

It’s still nice to have

[next solar]

but our giga opener with iqd D:

[stoic needle]

What WA is this?

[shy dust]

Just WA that predict time to kill

There’s lots

[stoic needle]

Oh I didn't realize there were ones for retail

Sick

[gloomy fern]

u think there are stuff in classic that isnt in retail?

[stoic needle]

There are some classic WAs that don't work in retail yeah

[shy dust]

Assa doesn’t even have a GIGA opener

I’m shocked if I break top 5 in lust

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's one of those "Always show me " moments.

[polar cape]

Giga phantom rng

[shy dust]

Steadily climbing

Instead of big burst

Sub probably peaks higher with Deathly cheese

[limber lion]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

And with Akaari

[slow marsh]

what's deathly cheese

[limber lion]

Deathly Shadows on, vanish pre-pull, switch legendaries

[slow marsh]

oh

nice

[final star]

Is this better

15 ToP

[limber lion]

Good shit.

[spice spire]

6.0 and 5.2 booms

[slow marsh]

yeah is that overall ?

[final star]

Yes

[spice spire]

I’d hope so

[limber lion]

9.28M damage

I wonder

[slow marsh]

hey

[spice spire]

9.28M damage is pretty

[final star]

[slow marsh]

sometimes i dont like to read

[lyric cave]

[final star]

It's not a good boomy dungeon tbf

[lyric cave]

[gloomy fern]

just do dungeons with finality like me

big dam

[limber lion]

[gloomy fern]

forgot to swap from sub gear

[scenic root]

Question on opener for council, should I SBS other bosses after getting up SnD, or focus main target getting bleeds out first.

[gloomy fern]

in a weekly no leaver

[limber lion]

Put SBS up as your doing your opener

SBS - SnD - SBS - SBS - Rup - Gar should do fine.

[scenic root]

Then once that is up, kill attendant then vendta- vanish-shiv and continue the fight?

[gloomy fern]

[final star]

Oh yeah

also

I was getting everyt PI

ToP is really good for assassination though tbf

better than outlaw I feel

[lyric cave]

[spice spire]

Unethical damage

[final star]

Way worse for boomy tbf

[spice spire]

Ye for sure you were the target

[final star]

xav got decimated

both boomys got pvp

[pure moth]

I wish i could do that

[cerulean nest]

@final star give me m+ tips

[limber lion]

He did say it's a 15

ToP

[alpine latch]

Man, I thought my 5k DPS overall was good.

😦

[winter vapor]

depends on ilevel bear in mind

but yeah, doesnt mean the dps isnt eye watering 😛

[cerulean nest]

is there a good video guide for maximizing sin dps in M+? i know the general idea but would love to hit 8k like that lol

[drifting cloud]

thats 1 boss with pride

[cerulean nest]

7.2 I mean overall, the other pic

it's like 2k above my general overall

granted ive been using MA instead of zold

which will change this week

[alpine latch]

yeah, I only have Zold

[gusty mirage]

Skip out on the video and check out the guide @warped temple put out. He has it posted in his discord

[cerulean nest]

not sure who/how to get there haha. any links would be appreciated

[spice spire]

I have it saved - I do recommend it. It’s a bit of opinion, but it’s well thought out and a bit of it makes sense

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W2Db7rkSIiT56b0PXQPjugZATnyx6aDOflx4oZgVwgs/mobilebasic

Link to his discord also in there iirc

[cerulean nest]

ah awesome ty

it sounds like I should know who Ryfie is...

[warped temple]

🙂

yeah it's mostly based on how I play and my experiences throughout my m+ journey. but yeah there are so many ways you can play sin in keys. I just stuck with my playstyle from BFA. it's very similar in SL

[cerulean nest]

nice ty, will give it a read today

[spice spire]

I think it was well done - I just have to caveat that it isn’t the defining way to play. But for people trying to learn it’s very useful

[warped temple]

there is no 1 way to play sin. I agree. I think i mention that in there too. it's just the way I tackle m+.

[odd heath]

I read the guide and it is pretty much how I play too, since bfa haha

Reminds of shrouded suffocation play style

[cerulean nest]

for sure. i only started rogue this xpac and have learned everything from people in this discord, eventually parsing in the 90s as sub and sin. im sure it'll teach me a lot regardless

[warped temple]

nice!

[spice spire]

Of course, it’s just a reminder not a “don’t really take it in, it’s just this one guy’s thing “
It’s also similar to how I play mythics as well

[warped temple]

yup! ive tried all sorts of combinations with stats and they were all relatively super close. only thing I havent tested is the MA leggo mfd nightstalker CT build. just CBA lol

[limber lion]

It's pretty dank

[spice spire]

Big thicc CT

[warped temple]

yeah i have heard! but just one annoyance i would have with it is that you cant really open on packs that are not clumped together. gotta wait. esp in higher ish keys where we pull multiple packs together. i think that would drive me nuts lol

[polar cape]

Vendetta is not a cd part was relatable XD

[warped temple]

lmao

i get made fun of..."anyone have CDs for this pride?" "Ryfie has vendetta, i think that's enough" "vendetta is not a CD" - sadge

[limber lion]

Yeah, that is the big issue with the build. That's also why I stopped playing it eventually.

It was pretty fun for a while, but it gets annoying quickly.

[warped temple]

ahhh ok

[next solar]

why vigor over M4D?

[limber lion]

It's just easier to play, especially if you're Necro.

A lot of work for such a small reward.

[next solar]

ye

[warped temple]

you can play MFD too, honestly just preference

[torpid spoke]

is it better to

vendetta then flag?

or flag then vendetta

[stoic needle]

Vend > flag

[limber swallow]

or.. dump flag and get some bone spikes!

[limber lion]

Doesn't really matter honestly.

[warped temple]

yeah it doesnt really matter

[final star]

I used MA for that

[pale fossil]

Hey, I'm fairly new to Sin and my guild asked me to run Sin instead of Outlaw for M Sire. A few question:

• What's the logic on when to use SBS (other than once early to hold charges)?
• CT over PB on M Sire because he moves so much, right?
• I see most top logs running DS over MfD and EP over Blindside, is that consensus?

[torpid spoke]

okay so another weird question

[limber lion]

• You use SBS as your first gcd, then you dump all charges of it during Gemstone windows. Don't let it overcap.
• Yes, and also because it's a lot better than PB in P2 as well.
• DS/BS is generally the best single target build, but a lot of people default to EP/Vig for more burst and more damage during P2/P1.

[torpid spoke]

if you're at like 1-2 seconds of shiv left and 3cp, is it better to envenom to get that last bit in

or is it better to just go 4/5 cp

[limber lion]

No, you still build to max-1.

[cerulean nest]

fuck lmao

[torpid spoke]

another question, when to use BELF racial?

when you're just low on energy?

or before a shiv dump?

[limber lion]

This.

[spice spire]

Whenever you’re low

[torpid spoke]

ah easy

thanks!

[limber lion]

You use it pretty much on cooldown whenever you don't overcap energy with it.

If you're playing DS, then you can do Muti - Snd - Muti - Arcane Torrent - Garrote in the opener.

[scarlet spade]

you guys think 16% haste is enough for raiding?

[stoic needle]

Yes

[scarlet spade]

I am trying to keep my stats fairly balanced for both M+ and raiding im at 25/16/29 rn

[spice spire]

There’s no set number as long as you’re above 0% you’re good to raid

[stoic needle]

Just sim dslice and patchwerk

[scarlet spade]

OK will do

[nimble tartan]

i have joined the 233 weapon ranks after months

god bless america

[scarlet spade]

grats lol

[limber lion]

Grats Omr

[thorny pond]

Can you just be <maxmax> then?

[nimble tartan]

i like that but unfortunately it is impossible for someone to be a maxmax player

[spice spire]

Sometimes you just gotta believe and it’ll get you there, king

[pale fossil]

Any WA recommendations for letting me know when Gemstone is active?

And ty 🙂

[limber lion]

I use this
https://wago.io/MarrowedGemstone

[pale fossil]

Awesome, ty

[limber lion]

No worries mate.

[real solar]

@warped temple i love u

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor is shadowgrasp totem worth using on any bosses you think i remember some people here discussing it a while back

saying it was actually decent cuz it's hasted or sum

?

[balmy condor]

I don't think it's worth over the normal stuff

[limber lion]

Shadowgrasp is completely fine.

[balmy condor]

but it's okay

it's hasted

which is why it's good

[gusty mirage]

My shadowgrasp totem is wonderful

[limber lion]

If it sims well, it performs well.

[nimble tartan]

guys should i join the dark side and do phantom fire cheese this week

who got the macro baby

[limber lion]

We've done it manually for months

[nimble tartan]

omfg

[limber lion]

I'm sure you'll be fine without a macro.