assassination

[grave dock]

this is one of the things i've noticed about the "everything in the middle of your screen" UI trend

some people encroach way too close to the actual character model for my liking

[stoic needle]

HOA is supposed to be an easy key but I've been trying to get an 18 or higher timed for weeks now and every single time someone fucks it up

[stoic needle]

It's kind of annoying because I use the personal resource display, so I can't stop it from getting up under my character's feet if I want it to move dynamically

[echo estuary]

HoA is like 1 bad pull away from being a mess lmao

Since it's so short

[ionic kelp]

hoa is a deceivingly hard key

just cause they made the timer tight

[echo estuary]

But yeah do you guys keep your cam pointed straight down?

Aside form last boss of DoS its pretty much how I always play.

[stoic needle]

I don't do the top down camera enough ngl

[ionic kelp]

i only do it in hoa mini boss room/ spires / pf swamps

[stoic needle]

I am fully max zoomed out all the time, but not always top down view

It's nice in every key where the camera angles don't fuck you over but I always forget

[echo estuary]

It helps a ton imo when you're really focused

But yeah HoA last boss and aiming denathrius in P2 towards the adds.

Main time I don't do it

[ionic kelp]

ya i always camera top down during massacre

[echo estuary]

But for everyrhing melee it's just superior angle imo haha

[stoic needle]

It's really nice in mists

I wish I could do it in sanguine depths

[echo estuary]

SD is terrible this week

[spice spire]

Sanguine camera is the true affix of the dungeon

[echo estuary]

Especially when the tank can't control the mist guy plus tornados

It is

[stoic needle]

SD is terrible every week

And of course my key had to be a SD

It's a pf19 now tho

I should do it but I don't trust pugs to not fuck everything up trying the nerfmeta route

[echo estuary]

Hrmm 2nd and 3rd boss are rough

[stoic needle]

People always die after the shroud skip and brick the key

[echo estuary]

Lmao

Like at the boss or just the trash?

[stoic needle]

Yes

[echo estuary]

RIP

Bring people who can use stuns and ints

XD

[stoic needle]

Like on one hand it's a good route

On the other hand no one can execute it properly

[echo estuary]

People probably focus on thicc numbers too much at that point instead of kicking the right stuff

I unno

[stoic needle]

It's literally the dumbest shit like people standing in the plagueborer explosions

Or not kicking the stealthing casts

[echo estuary]

If stealthlings go off you can fix it with an aoe knock

If you have one

Lol

[stoic needle]

You could've used that knock to interrupt the cast though

I once had a tank pull two ambushers at once

On fort

[icy haven]

but my FoK spam 😄

[ionic kelp]

if u dont kick the enveloping, it never casts stealthing

[stoic needle]

And no one kicked

[compact pumice]

It will if it isn't killed after it's finished casting

[ionic kelp]

yup

[compact pumice]

So you can stun and gouge and it will cast something else (ambush or Enveloping), but if enveloping is on CD I think it won't ever stop trying to cast Stealthlings until enveloping or ambush is off CD again.

You can full KS/HoJ and then a second stun and then gouge / DB / Blind etc to break each cast

It's just so annoying when it gets off like 2 times for one Ambusher because the pugs are targetting something else

[zealous ridge]

How strong is elaborate planning for M+ compared to master poisoner?

[stoic needle]

quite a bit stronger

we don't run MP

i dont even think it's run in PVP

[thorny pond]

It may have niche pvp usage but I'd go ask the pros at #pvp

[alpine latch]

Do you use use Crimson Tempest on the bosses in m+? Or do you only really use it on trash?

[thorny pond]

If you are talented into crimson tempest, maintain the dot in single target, while not in shiv. During shiv, envenom instead.

[limber lion]

^

[alpine latch]

Okay cool. So only let CT fall off if Shiv is up. Sounds easy enough.

[thorny pond]

Please read the pins

[alpine latch]

Okay, not in the pins but related to that.

Nevermind...I think I know how to do that. I really need to get better at making macros.

I'm thinking about macroing Ambush if I have Subterfuge, otherwise CT

[thorny pond]

Why would those be related at all?

[stoic needle]

i think you should just make a separate keybind for every skill, not like sin rogue has lots of skills

[halcyon zealot]

i mean unless you physically are unable to press the 8 buttons required to play this spec you should really bind each ability separately

[shy dust]

You don’t use ambush though

Even with subterfugue

You do use the free procs

[thorny pond]

I can run an entire M+ and never look at ambush

[halcyon zealot]

i mean who tf is playing blindside in a damn m+

[plain thistle]

and you cant even do that macro without using addons

thats like a script, not a macro

[thorny pond]

apply enough cunningham's law to this channel and we all come out of the wood work

[alpine latch]

Best way to get the right answer, honestly.

[halcyon zealot]

not me googling what cunningham’s law is...

[thorny pond]

Give wrong answer, get the right answer from angry people

tl;dr

[strange python]

can i not do cds on pull second and fourth

if lust is fourth

[thorny pond]

Sure

[alpine latch]

That was the strat if lust is on the 4th pull from what I've read.

pull, 2nd, 4th

[balmy condor]

lust should always be on last pillar

if you do 4, pull/2/4

if you do 3 on heroic, 1/3

[strange python]

thanks bbay

i jsut did first there and i have a min left till 4th so just though

klkl

[dense axle]

oh no

get a Phial

[astral plover]

I dont really wanna use double on use. Would you use device

[dense axle]

double on use blows

[bleak sky]

IQD ooze all the way

[thorny pond]

IQD is long asf

So it's whatever

[astral plover]

is long ASF?

What does this mean

[dense axle]

I assume they mean the CD is 3m

[stoic needle]

iqd/dreadfire

[thorny pond]

It's a long CD

And it's pretty strong

I'd do double on use but that's me

[echo estuary]

Whats your trinket keybinds?

[stoic needle]

just make a macro that says /use 13 /use 14

so its all on 1 key

[dense axle]

I use Z, ctrl-Z

[echo estuary]

Z is stealth for me lol

[astral plover]

Double on use is just aids to use

[dense axle]

it's as close to an out of the way, yet still easy muscle memory as I can think of

[echo estuary]

AMZ on dk

[thorny pond]

I have an MMO mouse so it's just a combo keybind, but I'd use whatever is easiest

[echo estuary]

I'm thinking Alt +3

Alt + 2 is Tricks and Alt + 1 is extra action

[thorny pond]

How often are you hitting extra action that you can't make it some other key or just click?

[dense axle]

for real, I'm NOT a clicker, but I click any extra action button I get

[thorny pond]

How often do they come up even?

[stoic needle]

world quests and NW

[thorny pond]

Necro Wake is really it

[stoic needle]

that's all i can think of

[thorny pond]

Bell Icon now huh Oshosi?

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

anything with mastery

[thorny pond]

Give us agonizing poison then we can go Mastery again. Would rather have smoke bomb back or some other utility

[stoic needle]

no agonizing poison pls

just buff the mastery scaling

[dense axle]

just an aura would be fine

[thorny pond]

gib me agonizing please

[dense axle]

I like mind-numbing poison

[stoic needle]

[dense axle]

or smoke bomb

[rain edge]

any reason as to why there was a delay on applying garrote in the opener during raid last night? i thought i was a bit weird. checked the logs and didnt see any miss or parry %...

[stoic needle]

agonizing poison but shiv transfers the poison stacks to the new target

[silent fossil]

@balmy condor been heckin busy and starting my 7 off rotation after today. what are the chances necro is strong-er enough than venth that it’s worth the swap in patch based on current sims/feels? might be my only time in a while to regrind renown

[thorny pond]

Just let agonizing be a single target talent in place of Venom Rush, then we still take alac on everything else

[dense axle]

theyre adding renown grind catchup in 9.1

[balmy condor]

slightly worse single target, stronger aoe

[dense axle]

not new renown, but 0-40

[strong saffron]

should i use shadowcore oil in raids?

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[strong saffron]

okay thanks

[spice spire]

Stop this nonsense at once

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/no-oh-hell-nope-nada-gif-13675571

[thorny pond]

Give me mastery crit or give me death

Haste should be exsang only

[echo estuary]

New rogue here and I feel like I need backstory lmao

[balmy condor]

oshosi is a fiend for mastery

even though it's not really a good stat

he just wants to see big envenoms

[limber swallow]

and scaling is kind of like a bad word here...

[balmy condor]

yeah scaling isn't real

so we've banned it

[thorny pond]

"everything scales great with buffs"

[echo estuary]

Are we all overweight people that pretend the scale doesn't exist?

[clever niche]

scaling is very real, when my rotund self steps on scales

[echo estuary]

Used to have a rogue in TBC named Imfat

Lmao

[balmy condor]

[echo estuary]

Anyways.... is there a point where haste is too much and you start going into other stats?

[balmy condor]

not really, no

[thorny pond]

Sim yo self

[balmy condor]

eventually as you get more haste you go from vigor/bs to deeper/bs to deeper/ep text tier

and that's pretty much how you deal with haste

[echo estuary]

Ahhhh

Yeah that's where my mind was going.

I noticed Sims value haste a LOT compared to other stats

[balmy condor]

such is sin

sin likes haste

[echo estuary]

Used to UH dk lol

Everything is so close together

[balmy condor]

it's close for us as well

haste and crit tend a little ahead

mastery and vers tend a little behind

[sullen pagoda]

yeah haste is behind crit for me

just sim yourself and not follow a stat "prio"

[echo estuary]

It was just a theoretical question lol

I always sim myself haha

From my basic understanding of what haste does for us

There a way to sim buffs from an encounter?

[lone junco]

@balmy condor are there really zero exang logs for Sludgefist? Seems like a perfect usage window at the pillars.

is it just horrible timing

[balmy condor]

exsang is dog shit

[sullen pagoda]

hard to beat straight up 10% haste

[lone junco]

I guess without garrote azerites, and low profile on rupture, there is no vanish rupture exang solution.

[thorny pond]

Sim exsang with any combo you can dream of, it blows

[plain thistle]

and we got alacrity on the same row

[thorny pond]

alacrity is dogshit and I hate it. "Oh let's never make another talent comparable because it'd be over powered"

[lone junco]

just thinking back to when it shined, for me, was in the short burst windows with multipliers. Vanish NS, Trinket BOTA exang made some of them really blast.

but I guess as long as haste feeds overall energy like it does, its a non starter.

[stoic needle]

imagine changing your opinion

[lone junco]

neat, blindside got on the playlist.

what does SND do for E or CPS? or is it just white + poison damage?

[stoic needle]

post the full context next time

[thorny pond]

I stand by my dogshit opinion

[lone junco]

Didnt AP multiply /use trinket effects after a vanish crit?

[thorny pond]

There were a lot of interactions with amps in legion

AP/NS/Vend/ drought was kinda stupid

[lone junco]

pretty sure I died trying to use it cause of the channel.

[echo estuary]

Is it bad that I like 2Min on use trinks because I can just Bind them with Vendetta? Lol

[thorny pond]

hardly, I'd unbind but to each his own

[lone junco]

back in the day, I liked them bound with vanish. but all of them work a bit different.

currently dps as shadow priest and its all over the place. timings are sync then split then back together at 4mins ish.

so is Shiv the new TB+ enrage .

[echo estuary]

I'm in love with Shiv lol

[thorny pond]

Wat

[echo estuary]

Idk how much of an impact a good shiv window makes but it's fun to set up imo.

[lone junco]

20% on the env hit sounds nice.

eww. those are baby numbers. did not expect.

compared to other classes I mean.

[thorny pond]

Good shiv pooling is a smaller % increase than you'd think

[storm elbow]

what are some good m+ trinkets i should look for? i use phial atm + skullkers wing

[compact pumice]

IQD instead of Skulker's for Assa is really good

[storm elbow]

ok need to farm that

[stoic needle]

Shadowgrasp totem is also good

[thorny pond]

IQD has high value. Phial is still a good option too since you'll be hitting things

[balmy condor]

phial should be prio 1

[thorny pond]

Dreadfire seems good as well if you have it

[balmy condor]

yeah lots of raid trinkets are good

[echo estuary]

220 Phial :D got it in my first PF when doing my first M+ dungeons on rogue.

[balmy condor]

226 phial and iqd here

[echo estuary]

And is shiv pooling that much of a small % increase when thrown into situations where you can line it up with infight buffs and damage windows?

[balmy condor]

I mean on sludge it's obviously twice as good

but pooling isn't big, no

[echo estuary]

I'm still gonna be doing it regardless since it just flat out feels good lol

[balmy condor]

I mean you should be pooling on every non-shiv envenom

[storm elbow]

so u just wanna shiv on cd aslong u have all bleeds up?

[balmy condor]

yes

[echo estuary]

More CD's used in a fight generally gives you more damage lol aside from some special cases for classes depending on fight

In a very simple sense that is haha

[marsh ridge]

What would be best lego to craft if torghast wings arent avaliable?

[echo estuary]

Go into twisting corridors

[balmy condor]

^

[ruby birch]

Twisting corridor makes it so that they're always available

[echo estuary]

If u have it unlocked on acc

[marsh ridge]

No way.

[balmy condor]

yes way

[marsh ridge]

Thats Pog

[echo estuary]

Keep going in and out till u have the floor u want

Or w/e u wanna call it

[strange python]

[marsh ridge]

Ha well thanks...i havent crafted a lego in months.

[loud mason]

Hey folks, im venthyr right now. but since im playing alot of m+ im considering going necrolord.
was just woundering. is it much more work to play the necrolord ability than the venthyr one ?

[echo estuary]

Thicc leggo inc?

[limber lion]

It's quite a bit but you get used to it.

[loud mason]

Should i switch to necrolord now to start ranking it upp ? or should i just chill as venthyr 😛 ?

like is the necro ability worth the 40 renown farm

[balmy condor]

it's worth

[loud mason]

Aight il go switch ^^, also side note wich keybind u folks got the ability on. just curious ; )

[balmy condor]

I have mine on 5

[loud mason]

i have to google some keybind setups again xD, feels like shift r is gona get tiresome real quick

[balmy condor]

I mean do what's comfortable for you

keybinds are personal

[sonic schooner]

Just be a clicker

[loud mason]

keybinds always been a issue for me with rogues, so much buttons ^^

[sonic schooner]

And good at clicking

[loud mason]

haha constantly an spellbook in the corner

[echo estuary]

Playing blade and soul and other MMO's got me used to some other keybinds

Kinda just brought those buttons over to wow

[sonic schooner]

I used to struggle having keybinds on wow, and then I played so much AoE2, I feel like I've nothing on wow, only 30 keybinds or something like dat

[balmy condor]

clicking is troll

[young herald]

real players cast by manually typing /cast Serrated Bone Spike

[sonic schooner]

Whispyr the cutest assa

[balmy condor]

[echo estuary]

Id put the least used stuff on harder keybinds forsure. When you need yo use those abilities you will have thought about it well in advance and you should be ready to press it when you need to

[young herald]

that emote is 300% adorable

[sonic schooner]

And they also swap target using /target mobname

[balmy condor]

[echo estuary]

Too cute

Stahp

[sonic schooner]

Telling u, the guys is cute and adorable

[young herald]

[sonic schooner]

A gift from sky

[compact pumice]

[echo estuary]

[sonic schooner]

UwU knight UwU

[echo estuary]

w

[compact pumice]

[echo estuary]

And this is how we turn all the edgy assa rogues away

[stoic needle]

all the edgy rogue players play sub wdym

[young herald]

[sonic schooner]

Egdy rogues are at #pvp anyway

[compact pumice]

Maybe this will bring them back

[echo estuary]

Should I change my rogues name from Nightbane to Guildmaster?

[stoic needle]

[echo estuary]

I have the name
I can totally do it

[young herald]

[sonic schooner]

[stoic needle]

why would you want to be named guildmaster

[young herald]

[balmy condor]

so anyways I started shivving right

and doing poison damage

[echo estuary]

So people treat me with respect

[balmy condor]

and the bleeds were like ticking n shit

[zealous ridge]

So during my opener, everytime I hit my flag>rupture and then I go mutilate x2 into shiv envenmon spam

[stoic needle]

they won't

[zealous ridge]

my garrote gets to like 0 seconds

should i be overwriting my subterfuge garrote before i shiv/

[balmy condor]

subterfuge?

[sonic schooner]

I played venthyr for a couple of weeks, it feels so had to get to 30 stacks as assa

[balmy condor]

but you can vanish garrote whenever

anytime in pandemic

[zealous ridge]

for m+

[balmy condor]

is a-o-k

[zealous ridge]

So basically before I shiv it's bettore to just

anish and garrote even with 10s remaining?

[balmy condor]

it doesn't matter, garrote is a generator

[stoic needle]

no you should vanish regarotte during shiv

[balmy condor]

you can just cast it

[zealous ridge]

yeah it feels impossible @sonic schooner

i dont think i ever get 30 stacks

also only have 11 haste tho

[compact pumice]

You don’t usually get 30 from Flag. It’s fine though

[sonic schooner]

Cancelling a subterfuge garrot by a normal garrot

5head

[stoic needle]

don't do that

[balmy condor]

overwriting subt garrote with subt garrote during pandemic is fine

[loud mason]

@balmy condor do i use the bone spiikes on cd btw? vs single target

[echo estuary]

Whats a good WA for pandemic?

[sonic schooner]

Oh yea that's a good question Avi

[echo estuary]

Panda emic

[balmy condor]

during gemstone

during shiv if you're low energy is fine too

[loud mason]

What is gemstone lol

[balmy condor]

mine just recolor

[balmy condor]

heirmir

[loud mason]

[balmy condor]

?

marrowed gemstone?

[loud mason]

as i mentiond im new necrolord xDD i havent even seen theyr trees 😛

but yeah i see now that u mentiond it ^^

[balmy condor]

yuh

[loud mason]

Thanks for bearing with me 🙂

[balmy condor]

yeh all good

if you play emeni you would cast during vend to refresh LBE

the first one on her

[echo estuary]

So.. how big is power infusion on us?

[balmy condor]

pretty good

but not enough to just get it automatically

[echo estuary]

Just realized I got one in a pug H Council I did the other day lol

Which is funny since I got it at 205 ilvl instead of all the 220+ people

Any way to see a rough percentage of my damage from power infuse

Or not really?

[balmy condor]

not really

no

[echo estuary]

O well

Was surprised by my parse feeling all proud of myself until I notice power infuse

[balmy condor]

well your parse is probably not that much higher from the PI

[echo estuary]

Got an 80 overall

Ilvl parse is so volatile and cheesy lol

Still fun to look at tho

[balmy condor]

nice job

[echo estuary]

thankyou ❤

Was worried I might have problems on the fights as a dps since I've tanked this whole tier but rogue is proving to just be so much fun. Excited for 9.1

[balmy condor]

yuh

necro lego looks really good

[slow marsh]

yep

[echo estuary]

Prob gonna go level necro soon to feel it out

Still venth atm

[dull cloak]

im not changing cov until there is more info

[slow marsh]

I personally made the switch when i simmed both and only lost 80 dps ST but gained 300 on 2 bosses

[echo estuary]

I wish I wasn't such a hoe for ST damage.

Id do much better in M+

[gentle rapids]

On Council of Blood should I use Rupture on the other bosses for more energy regen?

[balmy condor]

yes

usually the boss you're hitting + 1 more boss

[gentle rapids]

Okay ty:)

[echo estuary]

Wanna be cheeky? Use your ranged ability when they are flying up to the stage and when you're running back to them

Well actually I guess only use it when running back to keep from energy cap

[misty badger]

[uncut echo]

I'm checking the pins, but need to be 100% sure, in single - 2 target, we go doomblade, ya?

[balmy condor]

yes

[uncut echo]

Thanks Whispyr :)

[balmy condor]

zold on 3+

[uncut echo]

and AOE right?

[balmy condor]

3+ yeh

[uncut echo]

U rock

[balmy condor]

[echo estuary]

Is it bad that I like to get all my stacks off in P1 denathrius just to get to the middle faster for a tiny bit more dpa?

[balmy condor]

the blood price damage is based on how many people share the same number of stacks

[hot field]

SO, think I goofed, and got Doomblade on my shoulders, should I make another for hands? And while I have MA, interested on how well Zoldyck will be for Raids/progressions, and if so, which slot should I go for it, legs or feet?

[balmy condor]

so it's possible you're just either trolling it and doing more damage to people

or you're a god and in a group of your own

[balmy condor]

nah you're chillin

zold on legs

but it's only good if you need execute

so like

sire

and that's it really

[limber lion]

It's bis on SLG as well

[spice spire]

Grats on the emotes buddy. They turned out well! Disappointed no cat boy tho.

Also It’s pretty common for DKs to get no stacks throughout pending on comp. so it’s plausible he’s not hard trolling

[balmy condor]

obviously also for aoe, so sun king if you're padding (shield damage wants doomblade on mythic)

[limber lion]

But normally people are not allowed to play Assa on SLG

[hot field]

@balmy condor Nice, no need to spend the money now, I like that

[balmy condor]

cat boy is bad meme, just cause jez sent me cat ears as a joke now I'm stuck forever in the meme

[spice spire]

There are a lot of bad memes about you - you get used to it

[balmy condor]

tru

[limber lion]

wdym, they're great memes

[spice spire]

But they did turn out well, do more keys nerd

[spice spire]

This man boils his nuggets - that’s a CURSED meme my dude

[balmy condor]

I do not boil them

I microwave them

[limber lion]

He also microwaves water.

[balmy condor]

that's true

I do that as well

[spice spire]

MAY AS WELL BE BOILED.

[echo estuary]

Microwave is fine when you don't have taste buds

[balmy condor]

oven nuggets are too dry and crispy

I like me a moist nugget

fuck you guys

I have preferences and I'm proud of them

[spice spire]

Just hit us with ol’ faithful whispyr

#off-topic

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

From who are those emotes coming from u cuties ?

👀

[balmy condor]

no one

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Some nerd with a ttv at the end of his twitch name

[balmy condor]

not my fault whispyr was already taken

for the record, whispyrtv was also taken

apparently a lot of people spell whisper weirdly

[teal bloom]

Whispyr is my favourite hot tub streamer 🙂

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

You could have been whispspspspyr or some nonsense lmao.

Anyway back to topic on hand - was great to see the keys though glad I was able to see decent rogue gameplay

[balmy condor]

I work so much these days

really sadge

[limber lion]

I should have streamed my raid

[echo estuary]

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

4-5 days a week, 7 hour shifts, and all during the evening when people want to do keys

[spice spire]

You should

I’m lucky enough I can troll RH at work

[odd hazel]

atleast your guild wants to do keys whispyr

[balmy condor]

they don't

I just have friends

[limber lion]

Most people come home from work and take it easy, open up a beer, watch a movie on netflix

[frail fossil]

it's the 5g waves effect

[balmy condor]

my guild did keys with me till KSM and then gave up

[odd hazel]

mine has basically stopped playing but i got invited to a mythic group ( but im torn between joining them because i like raiding with my guild but they cant kill sire heroic lol )

[balmy condor]

oof

yeah we killed heroic and then stopped, couple of us went for KSM, got that, also quit

[limber lion]

Ya'll a bunch of quitters

[spice spire]

I joined a mythic group because my guild is KSM only and died until next xpac.

[odd hazel]

yeah, aiming for KSM my self now. but pugging is oof

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

been having a lot of fun with valorant though

I still log in for keys

[limber lion]

Weren't you supposed to get to 1700 this week

[odd hazel]

im not sure if its my IO or what but, tryin to get into pug groups for 14s/15s are rough as sin.

1082.9.

[limber lion]

Getting to pug groups as a rogue is already hard. Shroud is not a necessity anymore and most range specs just do way more damage than we do.

No reason to take a rogue, unless you specifically want to do a shroud skip at some point

[odd hazel]

[echo estuary]

@balmy condor could be worse. They could still be online but doing torghast instead of keys

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

bro please explain

how your guild transitioned into being a torghast only guild

[spice spire]

Rubbing torghast instead of keys?

[stoic needle]

i'm honestly fascinated

[spice spire]

Running even

[odd hazel]

i would be into torghast more if it gave more.

[balmy condor]

rubbing

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

i'm 8 io away from 1700

people have bricked 2 of my keys today

i'm gonna scream

[spice spire]

Ahhh yes, it rubs the lotion on its skin or it gets torghast again. Icy

[echo estuary]

T O R G H A S T

Raid logging guild where the people who actually play still just run torghast

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/horny-police-horny-jail-emergency-meeting-among-us-gif-20142820

Y tho. Just make all the legendaries?

[compact pumice]

Torghast "fun"

[stoic needle]

torghast is the best chore they've come up with in several expansions

but i still wouldn't run it just to run it

[limber lion]

The one boss that I've given the most advice to and helped people with, is Sludge

And it's by far my worst parse

I'm a phony

[stoic needle]

imagine not parsing an 8% on sludge

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

[compact pumice]

One time, I went with some friends to Torghast even though I had already gotten my ash that week, just to have something to do

[stoic needle]

if your first pillar soak wasn't out of melee range you're padding

[limber lion]

God I hate those soaks

[stoic needle]

of course that happened on our kill

[simple wadi]

The soaks pre nerf were so much better for your dps

[echo estuary]

Good parse on a pug H sludge is an achievement

[simple wadi]

Didn’t have to sit and wait outside of melee

[echo estuary]

Imagine getting linked to a healer that doesn't want to get back into range of sludge

And your sat there yelling at your monitor begging to healer to move

[stoic needle]

just kill them

that's what cheat death is for

[echo estuary]

Hahahaha

[spice spire]

Cheat death is the chain mulligan

[balmy condor]

“Sludge is an hps check”

[compact pumice]

I mean they will learn pretty quick if they get nuked like that while standing out of melee

[proven ferry]

@balmy condor nice interview on sin rogue with marcel 🙂

[echo estuary]

I like you all and they way you think

[balmy condor]

Thank you

[limber lion]

Ty

[echo estuary]

Where is this interview?

[empty saffron]

1

[stoic needle]

2

[compact pumice]

3

[slim pebble]

Nothing in pins so I hope it hasn't been talked about 100 times. Are we still venth in 9.1?

[odd hazel]

most likely for ST

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

new soulbinds aren't even implemented in ptr simc yet

all the cool kids are necrolord now

[odd hazel]

the venth soulbind though

Necro if you're a M+ chad

[stoic needle]

more thrill seeker reliance

[slow marsh]

Yeah initially i was digging the thrill seeker 20% crit bonus

But

You're getting that roughly every 50 secs

Which means it almost never procs with cds

[stoic needle]

er

thrill seeker takes way longer than 50s to stack up

its more like 2 mins

[slow marsh]

yeah sorry 1.2 mins

[limber lion]

It's 80s

[crystal barn]

hey guys doing a quick heroic council - i am wondering, is it worth it to bleed the off target for energy regen?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[crystal barn]

thanks

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FggsOgZfIH0

[echo estuary]

Thank youuu

[balmy condor]

Np

[limber lion]

Okay, there's some guy called Whyspir there, but where's the one where they interviewed you?

[stoic needle]

whyspir

[eternal lance]

guys

[limber lion]

guy

[eternal lance]

i lvl 212 dungeon 14 mist

5.2 overall

how about damage?

[limber lion]

Can't say. Who knows

[stoic needle]

sounds fine for 212 ilvl

did you die

[eternal lance]

hm

y

1 timew

[stoic needle]

yeah that'll lower your overall

[eternal lance]

whyat

u mean ?

[stoic needle]

when you die everyone else continues doing dps

which means your overall dps number will be lower

not dying is one of the most important things for 'good dps'

[eternal lance]

ow

and what about my skillss i use garrote in my sanctum spellss

[balmy condor]

No clue

[eternal lance]

Garrote doing 13 % mroe damage to multitate

[balmy condor]

That’s fine

[eternal lance]

what is your susgeestion ?

[stoic needle]

garotte should be one of your highest damage abilities in a key

[balmy condor]

Garrote should be one of your biggest damage dealers

[echo estuary]

Garrote is my highest damage in M+

[limber lion]

Garrote is big dick

[eternal lance]

really ?

[limber lion]

Nah

[stoic needle]

should be garotte/ct> poisons > melee > rupture

[limber lion]

We're just messing with you

[echo estuary]

You can spread it easily

[balmy condor]

Turns out subterfuge buffing garrotes, and then spreading it to 3 targets

Kinda grong

[echo estuary]

Yus yis yas

[eternal lance]

i can damage more than a outlaw

ithink

😄

assasins won

can i just focus on my haste

27 % haste now

[balmy condor]

You should sim yourself

27% is pretty high for most people

[eternal lance]

i must more uper that

or

stop and going for crit

[limber lion]

It's really, really high especially for M+.

[eternal lance]

what u mean ? high ? its good or bad

[balmy condor]

It’s not good or bad

[compact pumice]

Just sim yourself.

[balmy condor]

It’s just a lot of haste

[eternal lance]

so u think its usless ?

but i love haste

😄

[balmy condor]

I literally just said it’s neither good nor bad

[limber lion]

Why?

Why do you love haste?

Because you were conditioned to do so?

[eternal lance]

becuse u tell me and its worked

[compact pumice]

For my character it values crit more than haste at the moment

[eternal lance]

when i up haste

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

Yeah, sure. But simming will give you better results

[eternal lance]

i will sim so iu must do it y

[limber lion]

I mean if it makes you play better, then by all means

go for it

[stoic needle]

for M+ you want more crit and some mastery

[limber lion]

If you feel stronger by having a lot of haste, then why not

[stoic needle]

haste is still good but you don't want to stack a ton of it

[eternal lance]

27 haste 22 crit 27 mastery

[limber lion]

Placebo is an important factor

[stoic needle]

i doubt most people can notice the gameplay difference between 15 and 20 haste

[eternal lance]

ow

[balmy condor]

This smells like a feedback loop of “I don’t pick items that don’t have haste, so the only upgrades I take are haste, so I think haste is really good, so I continue to only pick up haste”

[eternal lance]

yy

[silent fossil]

i just equip what raidbots tells me to

[compact pumice]

Item level usually wins so you might end up with mega mastery. Mastery might be the "worst stat" (for raiding and solo, it's good in AOE) but it's all so close that item level still matters more

[limber lion]

Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.

Like eating chocolate ice cream every single day

[compact pumice]

[limber swallow]

f that, Cev.. don't take my chocolate ice cream

[balmy condor]

There’s a reason I put it in all bold caps

[odd hazel]

tbh all my stats are pretty equal at this point ( ilvl 215)

but unless you have like no haste/crit it'll be ilvl up to a certain point

[compact pumice]

My gear is pretty much all stacked into Crit and haste atm...

[odd hazel]

yeah, same here.

with some crit/vers stuffed in there

[balmy condor]

I can't get rid of my mastery

so I'm just stuck with it

[compact pumice]

I have 3 pieces of mastery, whereas two of them are my weapons so can't really change them

[odd hazel]

only piece i have with mastery is my helm

and only because it was like a 20+ ilvl upgrade at the time

[compact pumice]

You only take what the game gives you at that point

[odd hazel]

it hasnt given me a good helm since lmao

[compact pumice]

I had a crit main mastery second helm 220 and then I got a 226 mastery main crit second helm...

still upgrade

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy condor]

pretty much

[echo estuary]

Love being 205 and not having any control over my gear

The one 213 ring I got simmed less than my 200 hahaha

[odd hazel]

the effect of not having main stat 101

[echo estuary]

Yuuup

[compact pumice]

Sounds like a raid ring, there's like one good raid ring, the rest are for the mastery-whoring-classes

[odd hazel]

i got two 213 crit/haste rings, they are nice

[echo estuary]

Yeah won the roll for 220 Danathrius ring but the partial guild pug told me no and they gave it to their gildie

Sad mega sad

[compact pumice]

and whoever designed the necks in nathria they didn't really have rogues in mind as well

[odd hazel]

nathria sucks pretty bad gear wise

[compact pumice]

well M+ sucks gear wise too since you cant get 226... At least in raid you can give it to whoever actually wants it. It would be nice if you could like pool all the vault shit in the guild and distribute

[echo estuary]

My very first vault opening for 226 loot was one over the lowest simming trinks from M+ so ended up with a 206 ring or something instead

Was pretty sad

Hopefully this week is better

Should I try making my own mythic Shriek pug? Lol

[indigo mulch]

Its so much pain progressing on sire :/

[odd hazel]

Whats giving your group trouble?

its a pretty easy-ish end boss

or do you mean mythic

[compact pumice]

Do you find it worse than SLG then?

[indigo mulch]

At the moment we're fine. We just need more pulls. We just started on it. Just figured out p1 and close on making it into p3.

I mean mythic yeah.

[odd hazel]

Ah, yeah that might be a pain

atleast you're on mythic sire

[indigo mulch]

Sucks since rogues are so trash for p1 people keep bashing my poor 7k dps 😦

Mages blasting like 40k and monks like 20ish :c

Let's not talk about dks 😢

[compact pumice]

I thought IQD was supposed to give you one of your two highest stats?

I've gotten Mastery twice now

[limber lion]

It does?

[compact pumice]

Usually crit or haste

[limber lion]

Because Mastery is one of your highest stats.

Which covenant are you

[compact pumice]

Venthyr

[limber lion]

Should be getting crit/haste every time then

[compact pumice]

I have 826 crit, 648 haste, 171 masery

[limber lion]

Unless you get a mastery proc from somewhere.

[compact pumice]

oh shit

It's prob Theotar the Tea guys

[echo estuary]

How often do you get IQD buff in a fight? Just on pull? Or do you use a WA to track if you will get buff or nof?

[limber lion]

Welp

[balmy condor]

Theotar would do it

[balmy condor]

There’s a weakaura

But you should be getting stats on every cast

[echo estuary]

O really? Never used it before so I wouldnt know

[compact pumice]

Okay I made a weakaura now to show that it might give me mastery...

[dark crag]

At nzoth or carapace the dmg done to small stuff was ignored in logs, i wish that would be done for the p1 adds

[hollow escarp]

they could do that but tbf you have to kill those ads

I've been in groups where we had issues killing the ads

and I assume on mythic they are a bit harder to kill than HC

[stoic needle]

https://wago.io/IQDtrinket

[icy ember]

i use your envenom wa its neat bruv

[stoic needle]

ty, glad it's useful to you

[compact pumice]

Hmm I was using another that didn't show what stats you would get but that one seems interesting.

[stoic needle]

that one seems to be the best of the ones i've found

[stray thunder]

Hey guys sorry little off topic is there currently a bug with stealth and being brought out randomly with every buff received?

[crystal barn]

its because of double pootency theotar

[hollow escarp]

don't use that 🙂

[low girder]

^

[crystal barn]

i asked the same question the other day

[compact pumice]

Theotar Wasteland is better

[hollow escarp]

party buffs are underrated

[compact pumice]

It actually sims higher too

[stray thunder]

but surely it would be his buff bringing me out and not other peoples?

[potent rune]

does a druids roars till break shroud and invis pots?

[hollow escarp]

only brings you out of stealth if you "cast" a shield on them

[low girder]

and there's a half dozen weird things that proc shields

just from rogue

[stoic needle]

the accursed keepsake from the prepatch gives shields

to yourself

[stray thunder]

well i just had a warrior spamming battle shout whole dun bringing me out as well as shammys wind rush totem

[stoic needle]

its actually kinda pog

[hollow escarp]

speaking of that, just finished a key with a warrior tank and enha shaman and I managed to out-dps the mage

all I needed was a monk

[compact pumice]

Or a bad mage

[hollow escarp]

can't tell

it was spires

haven't done a spires in a while and no clue on what's bad dps

I know plaguefall 5k dps is more than enough

[compact pumice]

The metric usually is, if the rogue is higher he's bad. But if the rogue is good it can be doing baby pulls and stuff like that

[hollow escarp]

there was a lot of kiting though

[stray thunder]

Theotar better than nadjia then for dun?

[hollow escarp]

we had equal pride damage

[compact pumice]

Like not playing into a mages strengths will fuck them a bit, but they usually pull ahead anyway because of how good their kit is

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[balmy condor]

They’re about the same

Double potency nadjia and wasteland theo are both good

[hollow escarp]

necrolord is fun in keys

[stray thunder]

Alright thanks was gonna go necro but was more focused on raids but then i saw the 9.1 necro lego and was like

[hollow escarp]

might as well grind both renowns

you can get both of them at 30+ casually in 1 week

I said that because I only did LFR this week to get necro renown

cleared HC today and got from 33 to 35

[balmy condor]

Necro is quite close in single target as well

[short hamlet]

does bonespike trigger the passive in which bleeds generate energy on poisoned targets (don't have ability name in front of me)?

[compact pumice]

Nope. Venomous Wounds

[tired vessel]

it does increase doomblade by 5% though, no?

[compact pumice]

It's only Garrote and Rupture in particular, not bleeds in general.

[compact pumice]

Yes

[tired vessel]

nods just wanted to make sure I had my facts straight. thanks.

[short hamlet]

I thought it generically said "your bleeds". Okay, thanks for the info.

[balmy condor]

Yeh just gar/rup

Sbs is a weird ass ability though

It’s a ranged ability, a projectile (it can get deflected), which generates cp, has a cooldown, has charges, does instant damage, applies a dot, grants increased effects based on the amount it has

Like they just threw the kitchen sink of effects at it

The list of things sbs isn’t, is much shorter

Isn’t a finisher, has no cast time

And that’s about it

[tired vessel]

they should just bake power infusion into tbh

[balmy condor]

With lbe is gives you a stat buff too

A buff, a debuff, instant damage, dot damage, generator from range with no cast time

What a time to be alive

[stray thunder]

if you had to say one of the covs going forward tho which one?

[balmy condor]

Necro

It’s just the safest pick imo

[terse rover]

Ass rogue or Sin rogue? Asking to settle a debate.

[balmy condor]

Sin if you’re North American, assa if you’re European

[compact pumice]

Ass rogue is it's own community. 18+

[balmy condor]

Ass if you’re making a weird cringe joke that no one has ever heard of before, ever, in the history of rogues

[slow marsh]

i've never heard of it

[terse rover]

That makes sense, am European, arguing with an American

[slow marsh]

honestly it's not even good though

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s a regional thing

EU is more assa
NA is more sin

And then you have like South America they say Mut

[potent rune]

what about china?

[compact pumice]

㊗️

[balmy condor]

No clue

[potent rune]

oh wait they all play outlaw

[icy ember]

and then there is the ASN community, they usually refer to it as ASN

[balmy condor]

Yeah they cut it off like an acronym

I think I’ve seen that before

[scarlet wigeon]

it's like how you only ever see EU players call Paladin "pala"

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[scarlet wigeon]

worst part of moving to EU servers

[terse rover]

I'd argue it's the Welsh but that's just me

[balmy condor]

Anyone else call them dino’s?

Just me?

[green peak]

Ass rogue

[stoic needle]

what to pick

[short hamlet]

muh echoing reprimand dam

[stoic needle]

imagine playing kyrian

[green peak]

Wtf is arcane healing?

[icy ember]

🪄

[hollow escarp]

how else do you call palas?

[potent rune]

pally

[ionic kelp]

pink guy

[scarlet wigeon]

yep, in NA it's always pally

[hollow escarp]

ahh

I think I used both

[scarlet wigeon]

i think if you spent time on WoW forums pre-discord you saw a lot of both, but in game the regional split is pretty absolute tbh

[hollow escarp]

but even with sin/assa I've noticed that a lot of people here have no clue what sin is

so I use both

[balmy condor]

Healing like damage, can have an element. Priests for example do holy healing, shadow mend is a shadow heal, leech I think it based on the element doing the damage, so envenom would be nature healing, auto’s would be physical, druids have nature healing, etc etc

It’s not really important outside of the “reduced element” stuff from torg

[scarlet wigeon]

back in BC "mut" was the most common i heard, especially among PvPers, but that was on NA servers

[potent rune]

in torghast arcane mages can heal with evocation, hence arcane healing

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[scarlet wigeon]

though part of that is just how the talent trees worked, it wasn't referring so much to an assassination rogue as it was a mutilate build

[potent rune]

those were general powers for any class hence why teh tooltip is more broad

[echo estuary]

I played an Assassin in GW1 so I'm naturally just calling them Sin rogues since that's what they were called there.

[hollow escarp]

I usually play assassin or similar class in every game I play as well

[compact pumice]

Yeah back then many specs mixed between the trees a lot (well usually a few paths shared) so "Assassination rogue" would be too vague

Seal Fate combat was not too uncommon

[strange python]

in SLg fight in the intermission should you still be applying bleeds to the main bosses?

[hollow escarp]

keep alacrity stacks up

[compact pumice]

And Seal Fate + Hemo was possible I think in BC

[strange python]

or onlyfocus all damage to the add

in the intermission part where they take large reduced damage

[compact pumice]

Heroic?

[hollow escarp]

ohh, you mean for energy regen

I was thinking about mythic as well

[compact pumice]

When nothing is happening you can put up dots while waiting for the next Goliath

It's just free energy

It's still an ST win to have them up just for energy too so you can reapply during "cleave"

[balmy condor]

Yes

[hollow escarp]

they are not immune

so yeah

just 95% dr

[balmy condor]

Well even if they were

[strange python]

oh okay i thought the numbers would affect dps since it would be so low

[balmy condor]

You Still would

[strange python]

oh okay

thanks for that

[hollow escarp]

so even if the bleeds do 0 damage, they still generate energy?

[compact pumice]

It does yeah, it's not as good as when both takes damage, but it's still better for the energy regen

[balmy condor]

You multidot immune council bosses

So you multidot slg as well

[strange python]

hmmmmmm

[hollow escarp]

I guess the condition is for them to be able to apply

[strange python]

so the high parses stil do that?

or they stop damage for higher dps numbers

[hollow escarp]

[compact pumice]

They aren't immune though, the damage is just useless

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t matter

Energy is energy

[hollow escarp]

I'm thinking of situations where you cannot even apply dots

for w/e reason and immunity the mobs have

[compact pumice]

Like having dot's tick on Stichwerk when he goes up again is not beneficial at all AFAIK

[balmy condor]

If they’re hard immune, then it won’t give energy

None of the fights in question are hard immune

So irrelevant

[hollow escarp]

that's what I would call immune though

[balmy condor]

Semantics i guess

Either way

It takes damage

You should bleed it

Raid fights almost never have immunes

It’s usually 99%

Which means you can

[hollow escarp]

makes sense

[loud light]

pretty sure they don't make things hard immune because it screws over disc healing

[compact pumice]

Well shriekwing is immune in intermission right?

[hollow escarp]

yes

but it's pure ST

[balmy condor]

Can you target shriek?

[shy dust]

No

[hollow escarp]

afaik bleeds dissapear when he knocks out

[balmy condor]

That’s what I thought

[shy dust]

You cna build cp

With fok

[hollow escarp]

or PK

[balmy condor]

Well no, because you can’t target

[hollow escarp]

oooh

[lucid knoll]

Whats better for Sludge fist, using CD's on pull and timing it for 2nd pillar onwards or holding them for first pillar and timing the pillars after?

[compact pumice]

Heroic or Mythic?

When do you Bloodlust?

[lucid knoll]

Mythic

[hollow escarp]

pull 2nd 4th pillar

[compact pumice]

For mythic pull, 2nd, 4th

[lucid knoll]

Aight; thanks, havent really got the hang of the timing on Mythic yet

[hollow escarp]

I think even on HC with hero on 1st pillar is better to use cooldowns on pull

depends on kill timer though

did a run today and the other rogue had 3 vendettas

while I only had 2

one of them on 1st pillar

[compact pumice]

Getting 3 Vendettas on Heroic Sludge is not that common I don't think

Top 1000 speed kill on 215-217 ilevel bracket is like 4min

[hollow escarp]

usually dies fast

[compact pumice]

If you're doing it on 6 mins and some are doing it on 2:30min then it usually means you're losing a lot of people due to mechanics and it's hard to plan for that to happen / how long the kills are going to be unless you're literally progression wiping.

so I think doing it on 1 and 3 on HC is usually a safe bet

[ruby birch]

my flag just didnt give me haste

is this an actual bug or

it did the damage portion then gave me 0 haste

[strange python]

oh wow so from now on use cds on pull for sludge at first? then 2 n 4?

[hollow escarp]

on mythic yes

on hc usually on hero

[strange python]

oh

[hollow escarp]

depends on kill timer

so if the group is high ilvl, cds on lust

aka 1st pillar

[strange python]

how many stone legion heraldry party members should u aim for to switch out an equal level trinket like skulkers wings or phials

[hollow escarp]

you can sim that

[strange python]

you can? i dont know how to sim multiples

[hollow escarp]

you can start with 4 and see if SLG is better

[stoic needle]

it'll never beat phial

[hollow escarp]

^

[stoic needle]

there's an option in the sim for it

[hollow escarp]

that as well

[stoic needle]

"stone legion party members"

[hollow escarp]

if you don't have any 226 trinkets, that might be a good trinket

[balmy condor]

On ptr?

[balmy condor]

4 is the max

It’s pretty mediocre even with 4

[hollow escarp]

I meant you can start with 4 and see if it's good

and then go lower

to see how allies are worth

[ruby birch]

no on live, was on a sludge pull and my flag just stopped working?

[balmy condor]

Weird

[ruby birch]

First flag

second flag

i used it and it just went poof

[balmy condor]

Sucks to suck I guess

[ruby birch]

no damage, no haste

[balmy condor]

Idk

[hollow escarp]

not really worth reporting if it can't be reproduced

[ruby birch]

yeah i was just wondering what that was

[hollow escarp]

just an isolated bug

[ruby birch]

literally has never happened to me before

[balmy condor]

You glitched the matrix

[torn atlas]

Guess I'm in a sad way when it's currently my best simming trinket haha

[hot chasm]

Do you multidot at council for the regen?

[torn atlas]

213 skulker and totem are a very marginal increase but assume I'd lose that gain the moment I delay a cast.

[stoic needle]

okay

hear me out

deathspike NS deeper CT in m+

[balmy condor]

Yes, usually the boss you’re hitting + 1 more boss

[balmy condor]

220 phial 213 chain should be pretty good

[stoic needle]

deeper strat so you overcap less CP from SBS

NS for fat CTs from stealth

and deathspike gives you more cp so you can get up more bleeds to make up for not having 3 subt garottes on pull

[balmy condor]

Would need some apl changes to hold CP at the end of a pull

[stoic needle]

would it also need some changes to CT from stealth?

[balmy condor]

No

[stoic needle]

ok

[balmy condor]

Or else NS MfD CT wouldn’t sim properly on live

[stoic needle]

oh, duh

[torn atlas]

I did have chain but ditched it at some point when following the sims. Pretty sure its still in my bank so I'll chuck that in the sims next time. Might only be a 200 tho.

[balmy condor]

200 might not be enough

But chain is also hasted

So it’s pretty gud

[stoic needle]

where would i try to put those changes in? is there a cp pooling variable in simc?

[balmy condor]

Nope

Would have to add it yourself

[stoic needle]

hmmm

can you define custom variables in raidbots or is this something i'd need to do locally

[balmy condor]

You can

APL’s already use variables

[stoic needle]

oh ok so i could do something like variable,name=CP pooling,(command that prevents finisher use)if(target.time_to_die)<=5

maybe it would be generate?

[balmy condor]

Whatever makes you happy

[stoic needle]

lol it's not about what makes me happy it's about what will actually work

idk i'll go look at the api

[balmy condor]

There’s like 5 different ways to do what you want to do

[stoic needle]

any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[balmy condor]

Idk I’m at work I haven’t really thought about it much

Would be hard for me, but you could limit finishers through a variable, could force generators based on the edge case

Just gotta be careful that it’s not instantly a loss everywhere

[stoic needle]

all g it's not urgent, i'll give it some study and thought

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’ll think about it

[neat tartan]

Is there a video guide for Necro Sin rotation? Appreciate if anyone can link 🙏🏻

And if I switch Cov, everything is back to 0? Champions (missions), Sanctum Upgrade, Renown.

[balmy condor]

Yes

[balmy condor]

what specifically do you need to know

It’s 1 ability

[neat tartan]

When to use it during ST and AOE, does it share GCD?

[balmy condor]

In single target you use it early in your opener to get the dot up, and then you use the rest of the charges during gemstone if you’re running heirmir, during vendetta to extend lbe if you’re running emeni, during shiv if you’re low energy, or to prevent overcapping

In aoe you just put it up on whatever you can, and as things start to die, you can snipe resets if you want

[neat tartan]

Okay ty 😬🙏🏻

[halcyon falcon]

Is much changing with 9.1? I’ve heard “go necro” rumors.