assassination

[brave vector]

@honest heath

Not sure when FoK is used as your main generator or just to apply poisons, someone smarter than me should answer that

[ruby birch]

FoK at 4+

[honest heath]

Ah ok. Yeah I was trying to maintain bleeds on like 5+ packs and it was getting really hard especially when trying to generate CP for rupture tempest and envenom.

[gusty mirage]

I open w/ 3x garrotes and throwing a rupture up to get energy rolling, then fok at 4+ targets and CT at max cp

and then just put up another rupture, and maintain 5 bleeds

and keep up CT

[honest heath]

when you say 5 bleeds...do you mean like bleeds on 5 targets? or 5 bleeds in total (i.e. triple garrot, rupture on one, and then CT on all)?

[drifting cloud]

5 ruptures/garrotes

[balmy condor]

Did we change the apl or something

Why is everyone on a 5 bleed hype train

[thorny pond]

That weak aura

that glows at 5

[balmy condor]

5 bleeds is for priority rotation

So if you’re looking to do the most dps to one target, you would maintain bleeds on that target + 3 more bleeds

That’s not how we aoe though

We bleed everything that lives long enough

[thorny pond]

make it bleed

[balmy condor]

Throw that at the bottom of the FAQ I guess

[thorny pond]

At this point you're about to get published

[balmy condor]

Honestly running out of space on that pin

I kinda rotate things in and out as they get popular

But I’m right up to the character limit

[thorny pond]

I'll call Random House for you, can get it on shelves at Barnes and Noble

[balmy condor]

@honest heath @gusty mirage @brave vector and I guess @drifting cloud too, quick correction on the bleed thing :)

[gusty mirage]

Mine is just a relic from the BFA days me thinks

[brave vector]

I mean I think what I was saying was 7 bleeds really, garrote on cooldown on any target without it usually means 3 since it’s 18 seconds and 6 sec cd, and then rupture 4 targets before going into CTs

[balmy condor]

Yeah EB we wanted just barely enough to sustain fok spamming

[brave vector]

I guess the ruptures are really more of if they live long enough rupture them tho

[balmy condor]

Yep yep

CT always highest priority on 2+, then ruptures, maintain garrotes as much as possible, envenom to dump otherwise or if you have a prio (inspiring this week for example, where you sometimes would vend+shiv and then envenom slam into it)

[brave vector]

But realistically how many can you keep rolling before having to refresh ct? The amount you can actually keep up while maintaining CT is global capped no?

[balmy condor]

I can keep up CT and 5 ruptures, 3 garrotes usually

[gusty mirage]

4-5 seems to be my sweet spot too

[balmy condor]

If I get lucky crits, 6 is definitely possible

[brave vector]

Yeah that seems to be where I’m at too

[balmy condor]

With crit IQD I’ve gotten 7 before that was quite nice

But that was once in a blue moon

[gusty mirage]

[brave vector]

I was going to say lucky FoKs with seal fate make it a hell of a lot easier

[gusty mirage]

should get easier to hit 5-6 in 9.1 though because of the natural power creep

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[gusty mirage]

because rn my crit is kinda doo doo

[brave vector]

Side note, I saw someone in general mention that they might be bringing SS back in as a talent? There actually talks of that or if that a meme

[shy dust]

Meme

[honest heath]

there's a WA for 5 bleeds? lol

[thorny pond]

it counts your Rupts and Garrotes

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk apparently there is

[thorny pond]

but it glows at 5

[honest heath]

ok for the bleeds then...are you guys rupture and CT at 4 to 5 CTs? or just as many CPs you got for CT to extend it?

[thorny pond]

It gets linked here frquently

[balmy condor]

Oh

Is it oshosi’s?

[thorny pond]

No idea

I don't use it, I've just seen it

[honest heath]

i've always played outlaw for keys until now...so it's very new to me lol

[balmy condor]

Always finish at 4+ with vigor or 5+ with DS. There’s an argument to be made for low cp ruptures on mobs dying soon, but it’s super questionable and kinda niche

[honest heath]

ok

[balmy condor]

3cp ruptures are usually fine if something is dying kinda fast

But I would try and avoid it

[honest heath]

i think part of my problem is I'm not pooling enough energy too...so that could be part of my issue of upkeep

[balmy condor]

You should be drowning in energy in aoe

[honest heath]

and we fok at 4+ targets?

[balmy condor]

4+ to generate, 3 if only to apply poisons

[honest heath]

alright...I think i have all the info I need...just have to apply it now. appreciate all the help 🙂

[balmy condor]

Np

Good set of nameplates help

[honest heath]

i've got my plater setup ok enough to see the spreade

[stoic needle]

that weakaura shows you when you have 5 bleeds up so that you know when you can envenom, not when you should envenom

prob gonna delete that WA tbh

[thorny pond]

Ah, I think that got misrepresented at some point. I see people using that to be the basis for 5 bleeds

[stoic needle]

i don't want it to mislead people

[thorny pond]

Like all tools, it needs context

A saw in my hands is pointless since I can't use it well, but for a woodworker it does much better

[balmy condor]

I find it pretty pointless to begin with tbh the only reason you’d want to think about limiting to 5 bleeds is council, or I guess weird intermission stuff in SLG

Shards in HoA maybe

But you don’t really want to ignore the other adds in that pull either

The amount of times you’re actually just maximizing single target with no regard for the loss of aoe is quite low

Odds are, you’re someone like seli in that case, and you see your role in a m+ group as the funnel/prio, and would play stuff like dashing scoundrel and that sort of thing anyway

[hard jasper]

!bis

[balmy condor]

Removed

[hard jasper]

Is there a list for trinkets

[balmy condor]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[balmy condor]

Very general guideline

Always should sim yourself, things like droptimizer will compare the trinkets against your character

Super useful

[nimble tartan]

hello everyone with all ur tips and tricks i was able to secure my highest parse as sin on heroic sire denathrius at rank 5 thank you so much especially @grookey for telling me some tips

[potent rune]

Rogue discord = best discord

[shy dust]

did you record it?

[thorny pond]

Finally achieved meme status

[nimble tartan]

no because i live my life with no regrets and if i had a video i would watch it and regret something :./

[hollow escarp]

the guy above you has almost 1200 sire kills

[balmy condor]

Only?

That sounds like a pretty casual seller

[hollow escarp]

cut him some slack

he's a rogue

[odd hazel]

i'd get a decent rank on sire if my group could kill it. rip

all of my ranks have been from pugs lmao

[sick cairn]

hey uh guys

kind of a fuck up here since

[balmy condor]

Hey uh gennesisis

[sick cairn]

sup

[balmy condor]

Kinda looking cute today

[sick cairn]

so heres my situation

thanks >_o awkward wink

um

so i made my doomblade on my shoulders

that was weeks ago

[balmy condor]

Okay

[sick cairn]

and now im in a situation where i have 226 shoulders

but i only have 213 gloves

[balmy condor]

Unfortunate

[sick cairn]

but its the winged hunters gloves

the really good gloves and i can upgrade it to 220

should i reroll my leggo to my hands?

i saved up soul ash the past few weeks

and also my shoulders are hast and vers

which is my mistake

[balmy condor]

All of that sounds fine

I wouldn’t recraft personally

[odd hazel]

whats honestly the difference of a perfect shoulder/doom blade gloves vs perfect glvoes/doomblade shoulders?

[balmy condor]

But if you have the money and the ash and the will to min-max like that

Go for it

[balmy condor]

Like 0.5% iirc

[sick cairn]

my gloves are the crit haste ones

from M+

[odd hazel]

yeah i wouldnt craft it

i would just keep the shoulders

[balmy condor]

It’s super min-maxy to recraft for it tbh

And for all you know, there’s a 226 hands in your next box

So

I don’t think it’s really that important

Haste/Vers is Fine, doomblade shoulders are fine

Kinda just chillin

[sick cairn]

oh okay

thanks, been really embarassed about it

after reading pins and stuff

haha

[balmy condor]

Yeh it’s not really that big a deal

[stoic needle]

shoulder doombladers

[balmy condor]

If I look in your bags right now would I see a sin lego with mastery osh

[dawn ivy]

stop bullying

[stoic needle]

no

[balmy condor]

Good

[stoic needle]

[somber bison]

Yo is tricks getting buffed ?

[stoic needle]

i thought about crafting a second zoldyck with mastery for m+

but i'll just craft deathspike with mastery instead

[dawn ivy]

i just finished making my legendary for outlaw so now i can start making zoldycks, and a gloves doomblade

shoulder doomblades just had more benefit for me at the time

[somber bison]

Too obvious ?

Was aiming at @balmy condor

[stoic needle]

idk why blizzard is doing this 'last bosses of the tier drop higher ilvl loot' thing anyway

like outlaw doesn't get a 259 weapon next tier

[dawn ivy]

yeah they do

[stoic needle]

well the trollface pfp doesn't count

no they don't

[dawn ivy]

they just have to have an off hand

[stoic needle]

no like

[dawn ivy]

[stoic needle]

imagine being an outlaw player with a 259 offhand and 252 mainhand

for the whole tier

[somber bison]

Im sure they will add an outlaw mh eventually

Isnt it a token though ?

[dawn ivy]

nah

[stoic needle]

no that's the problem

there are no tokens in 9.1

for some weird reason

it makes no sense

[somber bison]

Loot is probably not finalized

[stoic needle]

hopefully

[somber bison]

Or you know force reroll them outlaw scrubs

[dawn ivy]

idk im pretty sure they dont really care

the same thing happened to druids in nyalotha right?

they just didnt have a weapon

[stoic needle]

i'm not sure I wasn't playing back then

[somber bison]

Wait that happened in nylotha aswell didnt it

Then again the slapper was quite strong

[dawn ivy]

nah outlaw had a weapon from carapace, just no effect

it was druids who got shafted because the only intellect weapon off those two bosses was a sword

so really it was more than just druids but i remember our druid constantly complained lol

[somber bison]

I see

Welp fingers crossed

[stoic needle]

9.1 patch notes: "fixed an issue where some rogue specs weren't using daggers for some reason."

[somber bison]

Or should i say "Arrrrr"

[safe barn]

why the hell blizz does this

[stoic needle]

?

You have some baseline mastery

Do not be ungrateful for your gifts

[dawn ivy]

every class has the same flow for crit haste and vers, where as every classes mastery has different baselines as well as how much 1 point of mastery actually gives you

im pretty sure affliction locks have crazy high mastery

[stoic needle]

Sub does too

And yet it's still shit

[balmy condor]

Yeah mastery is weird

You have a baseline crit and mastery % on your character

Haste and Vers start at 0

35 mastery is converted into 1 mastery point

And then each point is converted into an actual mastery % that you see on your character

[sick cairn]

i remember during legion it was stack mastery no matter what

back when assa was a real "poisoner" as they say

well we had to reach at least 30 crit

[balmy condor]

We didn’t really have to

But crit mastery was very good

[sick cairn]

idk what happened to that

i was surprised when i came back to join shadowlands

[stoic needle]

It's still good for keys

Just not good for st

[sick cairn]

yeah i know, but like i think it used to be best for ST

cause of

toxic blade and kingsbane combo

kingsbane was another poison if i remember

[balmy condor]

Haste didn’t increase dot ticks back then, which made haste basically worthless

[sick cairn]

legion assa was more engaging imo

really?

dang

[balmy condor]

Mastery didn’t affect bleeds, and had a much higher ratio

[sick cairn]

i didnt know that

[balmy condor]

So envenoms got mega buffed

Same with poisons

[sick cairn]

it did have a higher ratio

haha

i had a raid mate that reached 213%

[balmy condor]

And because envenom/poisons were such a large part of our damage

Vers was Just mastery but worse

[stoic needle]

213% mastery

[balmy condor]

So in order to speed up the spec, crit for seal fate

[sick cairn]

he full stacked everything on mastery

[balmy condor]

And mastery was the only other stat worth a shit

[sick cairn]

haha

outlaw was mega hit on 7.3.5

it was unplayable at the time

for me at least

[balmy condor]

People still played it in keys

[sick cairn]

thats why the rad group told me to swap to assa

yeah keys sure

[balmy condor]

But yeah in raids sin was crazy strong

[sick cairn]

crazzy strong dude

[balmy condor]

We ran nightstalker as well back in the day

[sick cairn]

yeah

for the big envenoms

the giant envenoms

zoldyck+MA

god damn

we would beat the execute phasers as well

it was amazing

the 4 piece of antorus armor set also made us play so fast

since we get a butt ton of energy from it

[balmy condor]

Not really

[sick cairn]

i felt it

[placid dawn]

why are people running vigor + EP on sire?

[balmy condor]

The tier bonus still made us slower than we were all of this tier

[balmy condor]

Pins

[craggy basin]

hey whats a good ~% for stats at 220-225 ilvl bracket??

[balmy condor]

Also pins, but the bold one this time

[craggy basin]

i know hwat my weights are jw what a good stats to be at is

ahh

didnt know that was in pin

thanks

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s under the FAQ, in big all caps

[sick cairn]

EP?

[craggy basin]

appreciate it

[balmy condor]

Elaborate planning

[balmy condor]

Np

[placid dawn]

thanks

also, hidden blades on sire is just for p1 pad right?

[sick cairn]

if ure looking at logs

then sure

[balmy condor]

Yes

It’s also questionable if that’s even the play

[sick cairn]

those are parse runs, but if u ask me, i go full ST on sire

there are a lot of cleaving classes already

it will be ur job as the assa to go full ST and help push sire

imo

[balmy condor]

For prog yeah, you’d play blindside CT

[placid dawn]

blindside with DS?

[sick cairn]

wait crimson tempest?

[balmy condor]

Ye

[balmy condor]

Ye

[sick cairn]

hmmmmm

ive never tried that on sire

[balmy condor]

That’s also in the faq

Cause ya boi got everything in the pins

[sick cairn]

is it worth using during the cleansing pain?

or is it used during the cabalist phase?

[dawn ivy]

all phases

CT is only slightly behind PB

[balmy condor]

I’m not kidding

I have pins

For everything

[sick cairn]

okay

mb

[obtuse ruin]

If there are two targets CT always sims ahead PB including envenom damage?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[sick cairn]

ive always been anxious when using CT

cause im like its another dot to keep up

and i get nervous when it gets down haha

[balmy condor]

CT is crazy strong when you have anything more than 1 target

Would highly suggest it

[sick cairn]

hmm

ill try it out

what about altimor?

[balmy condor]

CT

Some people swear by PB

But usually CT is better

I’ve found that it’s very very rare that PB wins on 2 targets

[obtuse ruin]

I wish CT bleed works with aoe exsanguinate

Actually would have aoe burst then

[sick cairn]

😮

[balmy condor]

Sin shouldn’t have aoe burst

[sick cairn]

well we used to with legion poison bomb

ive found this expansion's poison bomb is more mellowed down

[obtuse ruin]

That would be cool gameplay tho

[sick cairn]

does exsanguinate work on SBS bleed?

or am i trippin?

[balmy condor]

No

It did for like 3 days on ptr and it broke the servers

Turns out a dot that you can keep doubling the tick rate on is kinda crazy

And eventually it ticks fast enough to where either you disconnect, or the server hurls

Was a fun couple days

[obtuse ruin]

Wow

[sick cairn]

oh shit

[balmy condor]

Yeah, very unexpected

[obtuse ruin]

I miss exsang days not gonna lie. Started when it was first 400%

[sick cairn]

bring back hemmorhage

plez

[balmy condor]

Yeh alacrity is dumb as fuck

It’s so overbearing on the row it’s insane

[obtuse ruin]

And 0 interaction

[balmy condor]

Well

Haste is an interaction

That’s why it’s strong

But yeah, doesn’t really do much gameplay wise except a minimal speed increase

[sick cairn]

alacrity is pretty insane

it allows us to ignore some haste and go for other stats

[balmy condor]

I tried to find a way to make exsang viable earlier in the expac

And 30 second cd on exsang, at 126% for every stat (the cap for stats from gear)

Exsang was still 5-6% behind

So

Kinda doomed

Needs a bleed based borrowed power or it’s just dead

[sick cairn]

bring back* hemorrhage

[balmy condor]

That’s what I wrote in my rework as well

:P

[sick cairn]

like, rework notes?

[balmy condor]

Yeah for fun I just wrote down what I would do for the spec cause some people asked

[sick cairn]

idk why they took out a lot of core abilities from past expansions

[balmy condor]

Hemorrhage was one of those things

[sick cairn]

also the explosions from outlaw too

from legion

[balmy condor]

I also made envenom a talent, people didn’t seem to like that

[sick cairn]

thats like taking out eviscerate

that is too "core"

[balmy condor]

Disagree

I think sin worked great as a poison vs bleed spec

[sick cairn]

really?

[balmy condor]

That you could pick whichever you wanted

[sick cairn]

if envenom was a talent

[balmy condor]

In legion we had 2 roles for sin in here, bleed and poison

[sick cairn]

what finisher would be there to replace it

as a baseline?

[balmy condor]

A finisher called wound attack (basically evisc) which would advance bleeds on the target by 1 tick

[sick cairn]

so assa would be a bleed baseline?

[balmy condor]

It would still have poisons

But it would be fairly bare-bones

And then you either go poison based

Or bleed based

In the talents

[sick cairn]

it kind of messes with the image that blizzard has of rogues

u know im starting to think noone in their staff plays rogue

[balmy condor]

Envenom would then land where master assassin is

[sick cairn]

: O

u wouldnt dare

[balmy condor]

Master assassin is a super lame talent

Fuck out of here with that trash

[sick cairn]

it felt lazy actually

true

like they couldnt think of a talent

and just

[balmy condor]

We have the legendary back as well

[sick cairn]

why dont we put a 50% in there

and call it the exact same thing

[balmy condor]

It was a legendary, then they nerfed it, put it in as a talent, and then brought the legendary back

[sick cairn]

if they are bringing back double leggos

[balmy condor]

Fucking stupid

[sick cairn]

fucking dumb

dude

double leggos would make this talent

useless

[balmy condor]

Would it?

[sick cairn]

well.. since doomblade

[balmy condor]

Not sure about that

[sick cairn]

doomblade does exist

i forgot about that

[balmy condor]

I mean so does dashing and zoldyck

[sick cairn]

thinking legion here

dashing used to be a set piece

so yeah mb mb

[nimble tartan]

i hope double legos dont come out

[balmy condor]

And dusk walker

And covenant lego’s

[sick cairn]

oh dusk walkers were so awesome

more vendettas felt so good

[nimble tartan]

bring back kingsbane as a talent baby

[balmy condor]

I actually kinda doubt we’re gonna see MA the legendary played ever this expac

[sick cairn]

YES

BRING BACK KINGSBANE

[nimble tartan]

💯

[balmy condor]

Kingsbane is just shiv

[sick cairn]

dude

no

pls dont say that

[nimble tartan]

its like alpha shiv

[sick cairn]

shiv was even useless

[nimble tartan]

which is fine kingsbane talent turns shiv into kingsbane

[sick cairn]

before

[nimble tartan]

ez solve

[sick cairn]

toxic blade was teh shit

[nimble tartan]

more st

[balmy condor]

An ability you press on cooldown, during which you want to cast envenoms and get poison uptimes?

Sounds like shiv to me

[potent rune]

@nimble tartan what about being able to equip a normal leggo + cov leggo only?

[sick cairn]

but it was its own poison

[nimble tartan]

yeah but ramping posion dam

[sick cairn]

ramping poison was THE SHIT

[balmy condor]

But what did it do gameplay wise

[nimble tartan]

i would be fine with that

[balmy condor]

It did damage, sure

But what makes it different from shiv, or sepsis, or toxic blade

[nimble tartan]

because it means u still had the choice between zoldyks and any other regular legi

[balmy condor]

The only thing kingsbane had that shiv/sepsis/toxic blade didn’t, was that the damage ramped

[nimble tartan]

yeah i thought it was neat

and relevant for tight burst windows

[balmy condor]

Functionally equivalent otherwise

[nimble tartan]

i think itd be cool as a talent that would see play in those specific scenarios

[potent rune]

@nimble tartan plus new norm leggo would likely be returning spells and new cov leggo is just new shit

i wouldnt mind a cov leggo that allows lashing scars on 2 or maybe even 3 targets

[nimble tartan]

i think allowing 1 cov legendary on top of regulars would be interesting

[dawn ivy]

i still think master poisoner/venom rush needs reworked

[nimble tartan]

mp is fine its just not the time for it rn

[dawn ivy]

master poisoner is the first talent row though so i doubt it would be anything too special

[nimble tartan]

we need to remove hidden blades as a talent bro

bake it into the spec at a smaller stack mashallah

[potent rune]

have exsanguinate affect all targets with rupture and ct as a leggo

[sick cairn]

u think the covenant leggo will have its own unique equip?

[nimble tartan]

i think thats really cool

[dawn ivy]

not this tier

[nimble tartan]

i am into an aoe redeem hella bleed ticks

[dawn ivy]

youll only equip one leggo this tier guarenteed

[sick cairn]

oh okay

sad that were not getting set armors yet

[nimble tartan]

i love tier sets im sad they gone

[sick cairn]

armor and weapons dont feel impactful this expa

some weapons have the coolest names

but look like am oribos weapon

like

blizzard what the fuck

[nimble tartan]

i do like that weapons have unique effects like hunter

its cool

[dawn ivy]

too bad daggers havent had any cool effects on them like ever

[sick cairn]

perditions blade

[potent rune]

what about the drathwing daggers?

deathwing*

[dawn ivy]

did you just pull out a classic dagger

😠

[nimble tartan]

hear me out ok, iconic bosses drop essence of X, for this example sylvanas and u can imbue your weapon with essence of X to add the power effect to your weapons

scaling dan with ilevel of essence

[dawn ivy]

yeah deathwing daggers are the only rogue daggers that were cool

[sick cairn]

i just want good looking weapons

[dawn ivy]

@nimble tartan we're getting raid gem sockets that have some form of upgrade from killing bosses

[sick cairn]

is that too hard to ask

[nimble tartan]

ooo really thats neat

i havent seen that yet

[potent rune]

i like the look of the assasination mage tower daggers, plus they go on my back

[dawn ivy]

yeah they havent fleshed it out yet but we've datamined some potential effects

[sick cairn]

is it still possible to get mage tower daggers?

[potent rune]

no idea

[sick cairn]

i want them spectral shankers

[dawn ivy]

@nimble tartan https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-shard-of-domination-gems-provide-unique-effects-special-raid-loot-enchants-321914

[nimble tartan]

omfg blizzard took my idea

[dawn ivy]

a little over 2 weeks old so they might be putting more information out in the next week or so

[nimble tartan]

this is cool though love this

[golden notch]

Hey everyone. Struggling with some consistency on Heroic Sire and trying to figure out how to improve. Any suggestions on what I can do better here? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7TkQqWGB1pjgmXAc#fight=6&type=damage-done

[nimble tartan]

use yyour vendetta and vanish on pull

u wait 1 minute into the fight

[golden notch]

Thanks omr, I’ll start doing that

[balmy condor]

Looks like your uptimes are fairly low

I’m on mobile atm so it’s hard to look too deep

[golden notch]

Should I start like this or am I off with something? Mut, snd, mut, gar, flag, rupture, mut, shiv, ven, van, envenom

[balmy condor]

But on first glance looks like garrote/rupture uptimes need some help

[balmy condor]

Yeah looks good

[golden notch]

Perfect, I’ll work on starting with van and ven, then trying to keep the uptown’s on gar and rupture. Appreciate the feedback

[balmy condor]

Np

I can take a closer look in an hour or so

[gusty mirage]

I'd also recommend using sharpening stones + agi pot instead of shadowcore oil + phantom fire

[golden notch]

Perfect, I’ll take any feedback I can get. Just seem to be struggling with consistency on parsing, but couldn’t really figure out what I was missing. Sometimes in the blue, others green and every once in awhile a purple shows up

[dark jewel]

agi pots > phantom rn?

[gusty mirage]

that fight is kind of a bitch to parse well on in general because of all the movement. I'd recommend playing CT instead of poison bomb as well

Are you holding vendetta until phase 2? @golden notch

Not that its a bad thing, just curious

[gusty mirage]

I believe the theory behind it is that agi pots are more consistent than PF

but you can sim it on raidbots thanks to whispyr

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[golden notch]

@gusty mirage, nah not phase 2 but was holding it for the 2nd part of phase 1. Just thought it flowed better there, but now I’m realizing it doesn’t pay to hold it at all

And yeah, I thought phantom was better then agi for some reason but I’ll switch

[desert inlet]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fallen arch]

Also looks like you’re overcapping at the start at some points

I see 4 / 5 muts in a row sometimes, does like you’re not always finishing at max -1

Oh no wait, nvm. That’s the mut bleed

[limber lion]

He is using Mutilate at max-1 combo points though. Always finish at 4/5 combo points with Vigor, 5/6 with DS.

You don't Mutilate at 4 with Vigor, you just use a finisher

[sacred summit]

Quick question for PvE is assassination supiror to outlaw by much in single target?

[fallen arch]

Yeah I see now, shouldn’t look at logs within 15m of waking I guess

[golden notch]

Lol. Yeah, I do know I should be using finishers at 4 and 5, but think I just get caught up in the fight and mechanics at times. I’ll start paying more attention to that

[balmy condor]

Yes

[stable arch]

hi guys, do you cast multiple crimson tempest in a row or just dot and go on with envenom?

[balmy condor]

You maintain it like a dot

Don’t Spam it

[stable arch]

ok thanks mate

[sacred summit]

is ass viable for ventyrs or just necros?

[stable arch]

what, venthyr is the go to for assa

[balmy condor]

Ehhhh

I wouldn’t call it the go-to

But venthyr is slightly ahead in single target

[stable arch]

but if im not mistaken every cov is around 5 % dps difference?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[stoic needle]

if only there were a readily available resource that has the differences between the different covenants in it...

[gray fjord]

[stable arch]

[balmy condor]

Yeah no clue where we could ever find those

[limber lion]

We're necroboys in here.

[sacred summit]

i see most people play and talk about necro for some reason so i though about changing to it

[stoic needle]

here's the reason

[sacred summit]

yeah, seems like bis cov changes faster then people change underwear

[balmy condor]

I mean tuning happens

Such is life

[sacred summit]

gotten all to 30+ now exept necro of constant switching

xD

[limber lion]

Good thing Kyrian has always been shit, so never had any reason to go there :')

[gusty mirage]

owl bois at this statement

[sacred summit]

i just read that kyrian was bis when i started to rogue then they nerfed the mastery or something

[fallen arch]

You went over to the boney guys side?

[gusty mirage]

he's stinky like us now

ONE OF US ONE OF US

[fallen arch]

Yikes

Lol

[stoic needle]

imagine not being stinky

[fallen arch]

Now I have to switch

[stoic needle]

yeah you do

[fallen arch]

It is better tho for m+ right?

[stoic needle]

yeah that's the main reason why I switched

[fallen arch]

I mean, I’m almost there

[stoic needle]

it's way better for m+

[fallen arch]

Best alliance poisoner on the realm

[stoic needle]

alliance

[fallen arch]

And no I’m not switching horde as well

[balmy condor]

It was never bis, it was Just stronger in the first 2 weeks of the raid for prog

Most people just went far

Fae

[fallen arch]

Been there done that, didn’t like the smell of undead

[limber lion]

Yeh. When we got Burrs, it blew Kyrian out the park

[fallen arch]

How does the m+ pack rotation change with sbs?

I now play zoldyck with eb/subt

As opposed to venthyr

[stoic needle]

after your first CT, you tab sbs and spread ruptures instead of fok > ruptures

[fallen arch]

So sbs/rupt tab sbs/rupt tab sbs/rupt tab after spreading the first garrotes?

[limber lion]

More like CT - SBS - SBS - Rup - SBS - Rup

[fallen arch]

Sucks to lose lashing scars tho

[limber lion]

Why does it suck?

[fallen arch]

St damage loss?

[gusty mirage]

good thing ST damage is such a small part of keys

[fallen arch]

Yeah that’s true, but I will also keep raiding

[stoic needle]

you lose like 80dps

it's not that big of a deal

[fallen arch]

[stoic needle]

Raids aren't pure st either

[hazy crater]

12 dps off 7k gang

[plain onyx]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[hollow dirge]

Anyone knows if phial of putrefaction dmg is increased by assa mastery or zoldyck?

[limber lion]

No, nothing in our toolkit affects Phials damage.

Not Vendetta, not Zoldyck, not Shiv, not mastery.

[balmy condor]

wow cev

I wonder where you got such information

[mossy crown]

what would people recommend for m+ Zold or Doomblade?

[gusty mirage]

zold

doom is useless in aoe

well useless might be a strong way of putting it

but less than ideal

[mossy crown]

cool, thanks

[gusty mirage]

np

[hollow dirge]

Not to mention you use way less envenoms than you would st due to all the bleed finishers you’re applying, so the second part of the legendary gets lowered in value too.

[limber lion]

Yeah I wonder if these's a certain place where you gather all of this information

Probably not

[gusty mirage]

maybe it could be information that could be placed somewhere where it's easily accessible

kind of like a digital bulletin board with the information pinned on it

[limber lion]

And readily available at all times, so you don't have to ask and wait for a response

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

you some kind of genius or something? @limber lion

[limber lion]

I think all of us regs are just massive 5heads here. Ion just sends us all information regarding WoW and rogues via 5g

[gusty mirage]

disguised it as a covid vaccine

[limber lion]

No one definitely does not spend any time researching any of that stuff or writing it down for everyone to see and access. We just happen to know everything because we're

[gusty mirage]

Want to know a secret Cev?

I just listen to you and whispyr, I'm actually a smooth brain

[limber lion]

That's good, because I do the same thing. Whispyr is our encyclopedia.

[gusty mirage]

[dawn ivy]

im aware its a big if, but would the venthyr leggo actually beat doomblade if it actually lined up with vendetta instead of still being 10 seconds off or does it not really change the gain

[slow marsh]

it would have a chance if it was 1min i think

[limber lion]

Can't really say. It's a pretty dumb thing to think about. It's like asking "would Zoldyck be better if the execute started at 40% instead?"

Or "would Tiny Toxic Blade be better if it hit twice?"

[quiet valley]

But… would it?

[dawn ivy]

with the preface, im aware. Just wondering if the 10 seconds is whats really holding it back or if the vers is just not really enough

[limber lion]

Of course it would be better if the cd was 10s less

But who knows if it's enough or not

[hollow escarp]

TTB is good because use use Shiv a lot

[regal cape]

You mean Big Shiv?

[hollow escarp]

yeah

it's pretty lame though

the azerite trait with poisoned knife damage was more interesting

[limber lion]

God I hated that one lol

I would be so sad when it would sim higher than the other traits

[hollow escarp]

had a rogue in my guild using it in Uldir

[regal cape]

I'm just waiting for the day they either make it 1000% percent or something silly. Tbh I want a lego that brings back kingsbane. Or bring it back as a talent.

[hollow escarp]

I was lucky with SS

[misty holly]

I hope bone spike legendary ends up good in M+, it seems fun.

[hollow escarp]

if that leggo goes live

rip sin

[limber lion]

So... Flagellation?

[limber lion]

Why rip sin

[hollow escarp]

looks too good on outlaw

[misty holly]

It's too good with blade flurry, maybe

[regal cape]

I mean, it's kinda like kb. But isn't amped by shiv and I don't believe execute affects it.

[limber lion]

Doesn't make sin any worse though :p

[misty holly]

but, it shouldnt even work with blade flurry since that specifies single target attacks

and the lego makes it a multitarget attack!

[limber lion]

Unless of course you're a meta slave and forced to play the best spec for all content.

[misty holly]

checkmate, outlaw.

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but people already think sin is bad in keys while we do the same damage as outlaw

[regal cape]

A meaty KB felt so good.

[limber lion]

That's their loss then. Screw em :p

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

But I think most people are aware that Assa is not as bad as people thought previously

[hollow escarp]

did a non-meta key 15 at renown 10, I was lowest dps with 6.6k while frost mage and frost dk were above 7k, but no you need fire mages to time 15s

[regal cape]

Beyond that I don't think I'd play venthyr. I rather enjoy necro for sin/out play. And the aesthetic is more my pref

[balmy condor]

[misty holly]

you could be doing 20's with that kind of dps

[hollow escarp]

I know, just farming renown

[misty holly]

I've timed 18 and 19s with noone doing over 5k

[hollow escarp]

the wanted to continue

I like this rio event

makes people think outside the box

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

it was funny how the people that invited me asked if I can play sin instead of outlaw

[limber lion]

The r.io thingy looks interesting but I don't think anyone who just pugs stuff will have a shot at it.

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I have no clue why these people were doing it

just for fun I guess

[limber lion]

Would love to push m+ but pugging is just so slow.

[hollow escarp]

pugging above 18

[balmy condor]

I'm planning on hitting like 1700 or 1800 by the end of the week

hit 1600 yesterday

[limber lion]

Blaster.

[hollow escarp]

I got more points last week than I did this one

[balmy condor]

huge blastin

I was almost 8k on a halls

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

join me 🙂

I'm slowly sneaking in 15s and 16s as sin rn

[balmy condor]

I'm getting 19's in

[gusty mirage]

JUST LET ME BEAT YOU ONE SEASON WHISPYR

GOD

[balmy condor]

should be super easy

I'm a casual scrub

[gusty mirage]

same apparently

[hollow escarp]

casual oribos lapper here

[iron orchid]

This season I feel like the true key to timing high keys is having one mage in your group, or maybe juste have only one spec that's "not meta" in the group

My usual M+ comp was BDK, rsham, Balance drood, MM hunter, and sin rogue

we pushed to 1830 RIO

but we don't even have all 19s timed

then I got one spot with a group composed of BM monk, Hpal, balance, fire mage, sin rogue

and I got that fucking SD 21

first try

and it felt soooo much easier

than running a sd 18/19 with the other group

[gusty mirage]

a lot more goes into it than meta vs non-meta

quality of the tank matters the most tbh

[iron orchid]

I guess they had a bit more experience and I just had to follow their calls, where in the other group, we are still trying to figure out who should make each call and we didn't play enough to have every single route perfectly matching our comp

which honestly makes most the dungeon

[gusty mirage]

yeah that helps a ton too

communication/synergy between healer and tank can make a dungeon stupidly easy

[iron orchid]

Btw, I went on ptr to do some torghast testing stuff, playing with the necrolord legendary makes it stupidly easy.

most of the time you just go SBS -> finisher, and done

[hollow escarp]

guess I need to change my 2 keybind from Mutilate to SBS

[gusty mirage]

wtf is your 1 keybind?

[hollow escarp]

garrote

[gusty mirage]

poggies

[hollow escarp]

imagine spamming 1

when you can spam 2

[gusty mirage]

mine is the other way around

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

my 1 has always been my "spam" builder since forever, old habits die hard

#justboomerprobs

[low girder]

I've always had 2, at least on melees

I wonder if I used to have auto attack on 1 lol. Can't remember that far back.

[hollow escarp]

2 is always my builder/filler

[misty holly]

H pal is basically a 4th dps is why

[regal cape]

Imagine spamming 2 when you could spam e

[limber lion]

Imagine using a keyboard

[nimble tartan]

in order to not injure my wrists and fingers and ruin my future chances at meeting the love of my life i use foot pedals for my generator (L) and spender (R)

[gusty mirage]

DDR pads for movement gang?

[regal cape]

Real talk. Our disc healer uses three separate foot pedals

[gusty mirage]

are you NA @regal cape ?

[regal cape]

Yea

Arbzqt

[misty holly]

I know there are a lot of complaints about Blizzards balance of dps classes, and it surely could be better, but healer balance is an even bigger problem imo. The dps difference between like a holy paladin and a resto druid is *bigger than any 2 dps classes are to each other

[gusty mirage]

I think I may know your healer

[regal cape]

I'm on stormrage in continuum

Do you actually lmao

[gusty mirage]

we had a healer last season that used pedals

and she played a priest

[limber lion]

Oxi knows everyone. Comes with the job

[regal cape]

Oh well ours is a guy named tenner

[gusty mirage]

is it just a priest thing then?

[regal cape]

He also uses a ball mouse

Idk man

[gusty mirage]

she apologized for standing in stupid and said "Sorry my pedals bugged out"

I thought it was a troll

but legit sent us a picture of the set-up and I was mind blown

[regal cape]

Yea I do know his w key isn't bound to movement

It's really bizarre

That it isn't an isolated thing

[nimble tartan]

my w is actually mutilate...

[frail fossil]

cuz u keep winning ?

[hollow escarp]

7100 ash and no clue what to do with it

[winter vapor]

odd question, its normal for us to top overall dmg meters (or close too) for m+ right? I have a mage friend who I regard as very capable, but there dmg is always a little on the lower side overall. I'm usually the tank for the group but just wondered what your folks experience with Fire mages was like?

[hollow escarp]

I usually tend to remember mages that do lower dps than me

not so much when they do more, as it is expected

[nimble tartan]

cant keep up with good mages but bad mages u always notice cause they arent doing 40k dos

dps

[hollow escarp]

can also depend on tank

[winter vapor]

I just wonder if its my more conservative group pulling

[hollow escarp]

if they kite a lot in flame patch

well, rip damage

[winter vapor]

+/- actual run, ie ToP

[hollow escarp]

ToP is not really a good mage dungeon

[fallen arch]

Mages should top meter in most weeks

Also depends on comp

[winter vapor]

normally, Guardian, Mage, Fury/Enchance, Resto Druid and Unholy DK

[fallen arch]

Conservative pulling doesn’t help them, since they shine with uncapped aoe

[hollow escarp]

well, no demon hunter

to increase their damage

[fallen arch]

Yh, also, pairs well with ww and balance for group control/mass stun and slows

[hollow escarp]

don't wanna cut the discussion, but where does sin rogues comes in this?

[fallen arch]

Yeah was gonna ask 😄

[winter vapor]

I appreciate this discord a lot :p and I come out on top on the rare occasion I get to dps with my alt

[hollow escarp]

ahh

[balmy condor]

mages should stomp

0 reason a sin rogue should be on top of a meter

[winter vapor]

for overall? damn, the pugs im in really must have sucked

[limber lion]

Mages should always be #1

[hollow escarp]

as I said earlier, it's easy to remember bad mages

[limber lion]

Even a bad fire mage should beat a really good sin rogue

You have to be really, really, really bad if you can't top

Or you're holding combustion and not using it on cooldown

I did a dungeon where a Mage did less than 6k overall because he was saving combustion for "big pulls and bosses"

[balmy condor]

mage should be on top, ele sham should be on top, shouldn't be beating windwalkers either

shouldn't beat demon hunters really

[winter vapor]

unholy DK's on that list also i assume?

[balmy condor]

unholy is doable

[hollow dirge]

Never lost to demon hunter in sl

[winter vapor]

depends on the DK i guess ^^

[balmy condor]

DH aoe is bonkers

[hollow escarp]

I've seen demon hunters with almost 8k overall

[fallen arch]

Balance also on this list

[limber lion]

Fel Rush is nutty.

[hollow escarp]

uhm

[fallen arch]

I mean, if a convoke goes ugly

They pumping

[hollow dirge]

Assa can do 8k as well, given it’s a good grp, and depending on dungeon as well. Atleast on fortified

[winter vapor]

Yeah I had a feral druid pulling aggro in Sang yesterday, knew they had potential but it qas quite nice to see

[fallen arch]

I have seen 0 ferals in any content in sl

[hollow escarp]

timed some keys with a few ferals, invited them because I thought they are boomies

[hollow dirge]

Did hoa 15 yesterday with ele shaman beating me ,him being 7,7, me being 7,6.
Fortified weeks with zoldyck rock

[winter vapor]

I had a shocking balance for a 11ToP, feral came out almost on top for Sang

[hollow dirge]

Very true

[winter vapor]

I've been told to try it on my main a few times but sin just feels way more comfortable

like I have 0 clue to play feral

[hollow escarp]

I've heard it's very similar

[winter vapor]

anyway, thanks for the offtopic input, appreciate it

[nimble tartan]

anyone use any mousover bleeds

[hollow escarp]

not really, want them for M+ or?

because it might not be a bad idea to tab target to apply bleeds as you can also apply poison

[nimble tartan]

true sometimes i just be tabbin too much

[limber lion]

@hollow escarp

[hollow escarp]

Emeni is not too bad for Outlaw offspec

just so I never have to swap conduits around

so I keep Heimir on Sin all the time

[gusty mirage]

yeah that's what I do

and first dude for pvp

[hollow escarp]

gemstone is nice for outlaw though

but I won't play anyway

[white kettle]

Till they make outlaw feel better, I second that.

[twilit flax]

Whenever I try Outlaw I feel like I need Adderall to play it properly

Sin is much more my pace

[limber lion]

Same. Because I don't play anything else.

[tulip nacelle]

[faint axle]

Hi

[hollow escarp]

hi

[limber lion]

Hi

[royal lantern]

hi o/

[neat tartan]

Is Mastery Assassin possible?

[torn atlas]

Does Heirmir's Reveries ability have a negative interaction with Cheat death?
I feel like I seem to just skip cheat and proc the soulbind occasionally.

[hazy crater]

cheat death should proc first

something can kill you straight after your cheat death though

so might be that

[tulip nacelle]

cheat death is bugged, sometimes the damage prevention doesn't trigger

[hollow escarp]

you sure?

or is the damage that big that the Cheat Death DR won't tank it?

like Xymox explosion

[short pasture]

4 targets assa on PTR, seems legit?

[tulip nacelle]

Like yea, you can die through cheat

But also cheat can bug out and not work afaik

Solo said so

[low girder]

it's also really bad at multiple hits

ie blood price

it won't do shit

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor CT on SLG?

[hollow escarp]

waking up Whispyr

[royal lantern]

he is onnline on his phone

no excuses

[polar cape]

“Mastery”

He should apear

[stoic needle]

CT on ST is good game design

[hollow escarp]

[royal lantern]

that doesnt answer my question btw

[hollow escarp]

well outlaw doesn't have CT, there's your answer

[stoic needle]

I'm trying to summon whispyr

But yes you use ct on slg

[astral mirage]

regarding our on pull rotation. is it normal to not / does it matter if we don't get rupture within the MA window? I open with muti, SnD, muti garrote and there's my 3 seconds window gone. is it not more beneficial to get a 4+ rupture in the window instead of garrote?

[hollow escarp]

the MA doesn't snapshot

so doesn't matter that much

[astral mirage]

apologies - i don't really understand what "snapshot" means in this context

[hollow escarp]

well MA buff is only working while Rupture is active

[compact pumice]

Yeah its kind of a waste of the MA slot if you rupture during it

[hollow escarp]

doesn't matter if you press it during the MA window

[stoic needle]

The two mutilates in the ma window are the most important thing

Because they get extra cp from critting

[compact pumice]

Or evenoms in the vanish MA window

[stoic needle]

The Rupture would only crit until the buff expires

[astral mirage]

oh..i don't knwo why but ive always thought the MA buff applied to the whole duration of that one rupture because it was caste during it.

lord knows why

[stoic needle]

That would be badass but no it doesn't work that way

[hollow escarp]

it works with Nightstalker though

if you have full combo points when you enter combat

[astral mirage]

but ok now it all makes sense why it doesn't matter

[hollow escarp]

or if you vanish with full cp

[astral mirage]

awesome, cheers for clearing that up!

[limber lion]

Yes

CT is better on 2+ targets and SLG is like sustained 2T with 5 adds spawning constantly.

One could argue SLG is similar to Hectic Add Cleave, so you can sim 2T HAC

[hollow escarp]

that's how I sim SLG

for sin

for law, it's just single target

[royal lantern]

its just my first time SLG

managed too skip that fight until now

[hollow escarp]

I might manage to skip it as well

[frail fossil]

prayging for u

skip this god damn shit boss

[tulip fern]

quick question does MA snapshot the 100% crit on sbs?

[hollow escarp]

not on the dot

[frail fossil]

dots proccing during the 4sec will crit

the rest wont

[hollow escarp]

yeah, just like any other sin dot

[frail fossil]

and ofc the on use dmg effect will crit if used within ma window will crit

and give another cp with seal fates

[hollow escarp]

the only snapshoting we have is Nightstalker, Subterfuge and Exsanguinate

not sure if Exsang counts as snapshot

[frail fossil]

subterfuge is not even snapshotting

[hollow escarp]

as it's a bit different

[frail fossil]

yeah

[hollow escarp]

yeah, subt as well tbf

it's just a damage increase while talented

[frail fossil]

subt is just rly ur next garrote will do more dmg for like 20sec

[hollow escarp]

unless you overwrite it

[frail fossil]

dont do that

also i wanted to ask, if u pandemic a subt garrote does it loose it's amped dmg ?

[hollow escarp]

only if you are in the subt window while applying it

so when you vanish

because you don't wanna extend in opener

[frail fossil]

so do i let the subt garrote fall off ?

[hollow escarp]

yes, or vanish in pandemic window

[frail fossil]

ooooh i didn't know

oopsie

[hollow escarp]

I prefer to avoid subt in raid

[frail fossil]

last time i used subt in raid i did 9.2k dps

[potent rune]

what about on 2 more more targets encounters like huntsman?

or more*

[hollow escarp]

my last hunstaman kill was 8200 dps

with MA

[frail fossil]

on huntsman specifically if u're at the reclearing stage i would advise to hold ur vanish for second dog

[hollow escarp]

well, sun king doesn't matter, council you are single target, SLG, you go MA because how ads spawn

[frail fossil]

as the first dog will literally disappear in like 30sec

[hollow escarp]

I guess Hunstman is the perfect place to use subt

[frail fossil]

if u use subt

[potent rune]

ok ty

[frail fossil]

yeah huntsman u go subt CT 100%

[hollow escarp]

and yeah, vanish 2nd doggo

[frail fossil]

u vanish second doggo and u vanish again when the third doggo dies cuz huntsman takes increased dmg

and u pop vend on him too

[hollow escarp]

that's why I have no orange parses

[potent rune]

thanks these are very helpful tips

[halcyon zealot]

not even 227

[frail fossil]

also cheat code is to mutilate the shade when they are brought in the raid

dont ask why

[hollow escarp]

I'm 7/10 sir

[frail fossil]

[frail fossil]

[hollow escarp]

damn

I guess no reclears for me

wait

you are in Calvas guild

[frail fossil]

yes

[hollow escarp]

[halcyon zealot]

wow another alliance player

is this real life

[hollow escarp]

I was alliance as well

[frail fossil]

u know calvas ?

[hollow escarp]

yep

he is my manager

[frail fossil]

what ?

[hollow escarp]

oblivion

[frail fossil]

ooh

[winter gale]

I recently swithced to alliance from horde

IS GOOD

Iz gud

[hollow escarp]

[fallen arch]

What’s with the saltiness when it comes to alliance?

[limber lion]

I mean the talent choices are not thaaaat far from each other

[frail fossil]

frankly it's a skill issue

[limber lion]

Frankly it's an issue of not mutilating the doggos enough

[frail fossil]

was about to say that

[limber lion]

Our kill was 30s longer and we lusted just before Barghast came

I hate having to hold cooldowns in the beginning xd

Surely lusting on pull at this state would be the best play

[young herald]

Got a 76% ilvl parse on Council HC my first raid as sin

[limber lion]

I mean you shouldn't really look at ilvl parses, but grats nonetheless! :D

[hollow escarp]

tank decides to pull last boss with pride, we wipe

[limber lion]

Pugs

[hollow escarp]

SBS more damage than envenom lol

[short jungle]

Hello everyone, a quick question. I ve read all the pins regarding sin legendaries (only interested in m+) and still didnt decide on MA or zoldyck. I would love to hear few personal opinions on this matter. Thanks in advance.

[limber lion]

Zoldyck is the best overall choice.

It does the same amount of, if not more, damage than MA, but is much more fluid and has a better damage profile.

[short jungle]

and should i craft it on feet or legs?

[limber lion]

Legs.

Or if you're planning to kill mythic Kel'Thuzad in 9.1, then boots might be the better play

He is the penultimate boss of the tier

[short jungle]

not planning on doing any raids

[hollow escarp]

but we don't know how upgrading legendaries in 9.1 will look like

[limber lion]

Then go for legs

[short jungle]

kk thanks a lot