is the channel to discuss pvp
#assassination
heavy birch
well I want to pve as well
shy dust
we dont know anything about 9.1 viability
it could swap significantly for all we know
we are still early into PTR
heavy birch
necro is good for assassin? thought the play was venth?
heavy birch
if the 100% crit leggo get nerfed whats the next best option to replace it?
safe barn
you mean in m+ scenario?
heavy birch
yea or raid
red plaza
Zoldyck is the better option than MA leggo for both raid and m+
balmy condor
if the 100% crit leggo get nerfed whats the next best option to replace it?
We currently don’t use MA in pve
But also MA nerf is only pvp
So kinda whatever
oak cypress
so question is it worth shadowsteppign to barghast to throw garrote/rup on it then running back to boss on huntsman? or just dont bother
stoic needle
Yes
gritty mason
CT single target?
gusty mirage
is there more to that question
gritty mason
is crimson tempest worth applying ST
cerulean nest
is there some weakaura or something where I can turn off nameplates of specific mobs? I dont want to see the waiter's bars during council
safe barn
plater has some mods to do that
and also the p1 adds of p1 deny
i'll need that if you find it btw
gusty mirage
is crimson tempest worth applying ST
if talented into it, yes. You'd CT outside of shiv windows and try to keep the dot up
oak cypress
Yes
glad i asked and u said yes, finished with 5.7k with m yfirst attempt on huntsman, only heroic but ill take it 😄
gusty mirage
glad i asked and u said yes, finished with 5.7k with m yfirst attempt on huntsma...
grats
cerulean nest
lol but it looks so nice
stoic needle
Plater tho
thorny pond
It's pretty nice out of the box. Highly customizable too
void pecan
The one about infectious videos being shit and to stop watching them
thorny pond
Appreciate you @balmy condor
void pecan
:pepeclown-1:
void pecan
Truth hurts bro
spice spire
Videos are trash
Toxic
gusty mirage
D:
teal bloom
D:
spice spire
Capital D, colon
frigid kestrel
Imma make a rogue faq, it’s going to be sweet and short
gusty mirage
wanna borrow mine for a template?
frigid kestrel
Me navigating to the RH Discord and looking at the pins
gusty mirage
Here it is: "learn how to read the pins, git gud, ggs wp"
frigid kestrel
While telling people to ask questions only after reading pins
BOOM!!! Best sin rogue guide on YouTube
gusty mirage
EZ Youtuber 4 life
muted narwhal
Hello Assassination friends. For anyone that plays Dashing in raid, if a Necrolord Warrior offered you the 400 mastery banner how badly would you want it on a scale of 1-10? Trying to figure out how badly each class wants it.
(Yes, I know Druids and Mages but I want to see how much everyone else wants it too)
stoic needle
um
well the value of the banner isn't affected by your legendary
but it's from between alright and amazing depending on the encounter, mastery is one of our worse stats for ST and one of our best stats for AOE
so like... 5-10?
muted narwhal
So you'd want it on say SLG but not on Sludge?
stoic needle
i mean you'd want it anywhere LOL
it'd be good on sludge too because it pumps up your envenom
which is a majority of your damage on the pillars
strange python
There is a banner spreadsheet of serahline 1 of the best warriors in the world
U can see the value there
muted narwhal
I see it, thank you very much
stoic needle
where can i find this spreadsheet i'm curious
low girder
is it as bad as the PI one
stoic needle
zero time variance sims 
muted narwhal
no variance when you're comparing class to class makes sense
stoic needle
not really
strange python
He is raiding for pieces i think he knows what he is doing
stoic needle
just because someone is in a good guild/a good player doesn't mean that their analysis can't be flawed
running a zero time variance sim just makes the results even more unrealistic
low girder
he can be as good as he wants, he still has to rely on the APL work for other classes
some are equipped for that, some are not
stoic needle
zoldycks banner execute stonks 
strange python
If u have a sim of a class which is 5 min and another sim is 5:20 isnt that flawed
stoic needle
no? do you understand what time variance does in a sim?
balmy condor
Every sim baseline has 20% variance
stoic needle
so over the 10,000 iterations that make up the sim, the timing varies +and - 20%
which gives a more accurate picture of the value of whatever you're simming by making it so that you don't get perfect lineup for your cooldowns every single time
just like in the actual game
sometimes you do, sometimes you don't
muted narwhal
You guys don't wipe whenever you don't get the exact same timing as the perfect week you had once?
balmy condor
5 min sim is actually 4 min minimum and 6 min maximum
And if you’re doing say 12k iterations, which is fairly reasonable
Over the course of those 120 seconds
It’s distributed evenly
So each second, has about 100 iterations
void pecan
That guy sims.
balmy condor
Never simmed in my life
strange python
So how would u go for a comparison sim across all classes whispyr
balmy condor
You don’t
It’s pointless
The best you can do is take the best profile you can and run a 5 min patchwerk and call it close enough
Turning the variance to 0 does nothing for the accuracy, it just makes it even more inaccurate by removing any difference in cooldowns
But the APL’s and profiles for each spec have so much difference in their depth and optimization
It’s just not feasible ti compare classes side by side
Demonology for example is often laughed at because the APL is just so broken
But if you look at a rogue APL, we’re optimized very very heavily
It gets even worse when you move out of the realm of a patchwerk 5 min
Especially for something like dungeonslice
Rogues are one of the only classes that have any semblance of support for dungeonslice
strange python
Thank you for explaining
balmy condor
We optimize for add spawns, time to kill, all sorts of shit
Mages, on the other hand
Are like “dungeonslice? Never heard of her, sim 5 target”
Although I think they might be working on it
Some of their more recent commits show a curious amount of checking for add spawns and stuff
So maybe in the future
void pecan
ain't nobody gonna be as good as our sim overlord(s?)
balmy condor
Rogue theorycrafting is stronk
Shamans, warlocks, and warriors are always in need of more help it seems
Mages have a ton of TC’s but they all don’t have a lot of time or something
But since simcraft is a passion project and no one gets paid for any of it, it’s hard to have perfect implementation on everything
Just how it is
stoic needle
i wonder how blizzard goes about designing things. do they sim stuff? or do they just make things and see how it pans out?
you'd think having a robust sim community for every class would be conducive to proper balancing
stoic needle
hmm interesting
low girder
think it's a lot of spreadsheets lol
balmy condor
Blizzard used to work with the TC’s of the class for balancing and feedback and bug reports and shit
But after getting rid of a lot of the dev’s and moving to interns
That’s obviously been a little less involved
So idk what happens at blizzard
Maybe they have their own sims, maybe they use simcraft and Just wait for theorycrafters to implement things and see what’s bad, maybe they look at logs, maybe they just use their personal experiences
Who knows
visual prairie
SOMEONE KNOWS
they just won't talk. second most impressive secret keeping after the faked moon landing
cunning needle
Maybe they really do have a dart board of how they buff/nerf things
hallow spear
Do I only want to use totem inside Flag?
I've been doing the old slap it off cd but it isn't getting anywhere close to my dfv
balmy condor
Yeah
stoic needle
guys, wtf is this
this is why we dont phantom fire
charred flame
Hey, I'm pretty new here, but as someone who played a lot of assassination rogue back in BfA, I was wondering what the reason is for not refreshing garrote during subterfuge any more is? i.e. Garrote > Slice and Dice > Garrote. Just looking at the flat numbers I feel like there must be something I'm clearly undervaluing, or just not understanding
balmy condor
We don’t have shrouded suffocation
charred flame
But still, the damage output of 6 extra seconds of garrote seems to outdamage a mutilate, or is it that mutilate can crit and garrote can't?
charred flame
Alright, thanks
manic harness
balmy condor
Dropped as a child, swelling never went away
odd meteor
!rotation
visual prairie
!sashay left
prisma monolithBOT
odd meteor
Thank you Whispyr
warped temple
Gotchu homie
u got me too???? 😮
warped temple
oh ok sad
livid temple
is there anything we can use to mitigate Impale on donny? im guessing evasion / cloak doesnt work, but maybe Feint?
cold sparrow
Hello, I have a few questions about Huntsman / 2 Targets.
- I am getting mixed opinions: Is Vigor or DS the better choice? I always thought this is preference / a SIM thing, but I have been told that Vigor is better.
- I want to try CT for this fight since it sims better than pb. When do I use it? E.g. for opener (I am Night Fae): After applying Garrote and Rup on both targets, but before Vendetta and Shiv? So Garr > Garr > SnD > Mut (4+ CP with Vigor) > Rup 1 > Mut > Rup 2 > Mut (4+ CP) > CT > Sepsis > Vendetta Shiv?
But it feels like I am holding Vendetta for too long in this case
balmy condor
is there anything we can use to mitigate Impale on donny? im guessing evasion / ...
I don’t think feint works
balmy condor
Hello, I have a few questions about Huntsman / 2 Targets.
1) I am getting mixed ...
- on huntsman EP Subt Vigor CT is the way to go. Consistent 2 target favors that
- Opener seems fine to me
fleet anchor
👀 but but I use EP/MA/Deeper on Huntsman 😄
cold sparrow
Thank you! One more question: I just use CT during pandemic ( so last 3s-ish) but outside Shiv window?
cobalt island
hi!
there is a trait that you get that increases damadge after using shiv by 11%, but i have it and i get no buff after using it
was wandering if anyone has the same problem
balmy condor
Thank you! One more question: I just use CT during pandemic ( so last 3s-ish) bu...
On 2 targets, you would refresh even in shiv, CT is quite strong with multiple targets, make sure to always maintain
balmy condor
there is a trait that you get that increases damadge after using shiv by 11%, bu...
Shiv, and WPS, the conduit you’re referring to, increase the nature damage to the target
fleet anchor
But joking aside, it will depend on your covenant and gear tbh
fleet anchor
For me even in 2T Deeper/MA sims better than Subterfuge/Vigor
cold sparrow
Got it, thank you!
cobalt island
oh got it! thanks
cold sparrow
Ah ok, I will just Sim it again, thank you!
balmy condor
Ah ok, I will just Sim it again, thank you!
Always a good answer :P
cold sparrow
😄
fleet anchor
I have multiple 99% parses on that fight with EP/MA/Deeper/PB, so it's one of those things where it's really on the edge
CT on 2 target can be a gain, it can be a loss
Since part of the fight is 1T at the end, plus the dog transitions, I don't really feel like CT is a slam dunk tbh
But it's probably neutral ish
Most of the success for parsing on that fight will be how good you are at keeping your uptimes and timing things
Knowing when your tanks are pulling stuff out, when you have to refresh bleeds, etc.
If you do go MA, you probably want to make sure you full setup your bleeds on both targets before Vendettaing on pull, so you can MA into full crit value on both targets
Have plenty of time even if you lust on pull to get full lust value
cold sparrow
Makes a lot of sense. I still lack a lot of practice with timings and the feel for refreshing / CDs since I started raiding in general in February (so new to the game) and played Sub for like 2 months.
So I am trying to learn and "maximize" by asking a lot and apply it
Much appreciated 🙏
balmy condor
As you can probably see, a lot of talent combinations are really close in practice
steep reef
@arctic walrus hello i have been sent ur regards and i hope you are having a great day
cold sparrow
Yea
fleet anchor
I may try CT next week and see how it does
I'm at like rank 14 unbuffed parse on it/21 overall, so don't have too much to lose by experimenting. Gonna be hard to beat my pull this week though since I had pretty good RNG.
But top pulls on the fight are kinda split between PB and CT so it's hard to say
balmy condor
I think CT is better than PB for sure
But I’m also a pleb
So 
I saw a gain when I used CT
fleet anchor
So you're saying my 9.3k should have been 9.6k?!
balmy condor
Should’ve been a 93k!
fleet anchor
You promised me 9.6k next week
I have you on the record
If I fail when using CT, I'm blaming you
fleet anchor
4 PIs, 3 Faeries
balmy condor
Good god
arctic walrus
all the homies hate passassin
fleet anchor
At this point I feel like I'm actively trying to avoid asking for PI
If I got PIs I'd really have to mega tryhard
Otherwise I just look lame
R1 or bust if you get externals
cerulean nest
well after second night of council prog i'm feeling much better on sin
fleet anchor
Like Raz getting externals and having R1 all-star is the way to do it. But if you end up lower, what's the point? 😄
fleet anchor
well after second night of council prog i'm feeling much better on sin
Council is fun, just a bit long
cerulean nest
but getting used to it didnt take too long thankfully
fleet anchor
no, like this
At least he got R1
low girder
true lol
fallow otter
Imagine getting that many pis and not doing double dmg
fleet anchor
If you get that many externals and don't get R1
You are contractually obligated to delete your character
fallow otter
I don't care for PI on ww so no obligation here haha
fleet anchor
The one thing I would love to see
Is that on the overall all-star page that it would show the cumulative total externals of all the contributing parses
Would love to see that guy's entry, because he's got over 100 externals across all the fights lol
balmy condor
Would love to see that guy's entry, because he's got over 100 externals across a...
Divide the all star points by total externals received
Only fair
fleet anchor
Given that I'm R44 for Assassination with 0 externals, I'm curious what "no externals" rank I am. It's really hard to know without checking manually since it's not on the player ranking pages or the all star page. Have to look up every fight individually.
balmy condor
Bitch at kihra
drifting cloud
im 11 with 0 and I have a scuffed arti log
fleet anchor
Dude I can't seem to get a decent Artificer parse to save my life
Our pulls are always so scuffed
gloomy knoll
27 with 0 
no pi gang gang
fleet anchor
I'm like top DPS on our pulls and still only get 90% on that one 😦
fleet anchor
Also our lovely kill time this week where I got 1 second of Vendetta at the end of the fight 👌
lol
gloomy knoll
fleet anchor
Literally the worst feeling
drifting cloud
I was gonna get a top20 log last reset but I inted the succ and cheat death dr bugged out so I died from the jumping aoe 
fleet anchor
RIIIP
We always have a roar so I just save sprint and that's enough to keep me out all the time
But I've gotten multiple ghosts every pull last few weeks
fallow otter
Dude I can't seem to get a decent Artificer parse to save my life
Our council strat combined with boomkins and locks means I'm a blue parse boi on council lol
fleet anchor
I did finally get a good Council parse this week
I went from 72% to 96% on that one 🤣
fallow otter
Our ranged also suck at the attendant so I gave up kill it
fleet anchor
yeah I always swap
stoic needle
separate PI leaderboard when?
fleet anchor
But I'm playing Necro so tossing a SBS into Envenom over onto it isn't the worst thing in the world
But yeah would love some pull where Balance Druids weren't just cleaning up the adds so fast all the time
fallow otter
fleet anchor
At least Rogues have fewer externals than most specs in a general sense
So I think our all-star ranks aren't too skewed
fleet anchor
Not enough parses 😦
I mean even Assassination has that on the later fights
I've got rank 30 pulls that are purple
lol
fleet anchor
Which honestly still kinda confuses me. Think it's just momentum from earlier in the tier I suppose
Plus SLG+Sire holding a ton of more casual mythic guilds hostage
Assassination is really good on both SLG and Sire
Should be way more parses than there are
Still just over 500 Sire parses for Assassination
It's silly tbh
drifting cloud
but yeah if youre necro on a 8min slg kill assa slaps
fleet anchor
it's dumb
Considering I would argue that Assassination is one of the single best Sire specs atm lol
drifting cloud
nothing to argue its basically a fact P:
fleet anchor
Good survivability for the mechanics, good cooldown alignment, good P3 damage
drifting cloud
the p3 is funny because of how the fight works, if that phase is 20-30s longer the dmg would look alot different
fallow otter
1.4k ww
gloomy knoll
if you do slow one assa is kinda poop
how tf you get an 8 minute kill ours is 9:20
drifting cloud
last week we had 7:40 I think
fleet anchor
WW isn't even very good on Sire imo
drifting cloud
you have to aim to push into 2nd intermission before 3rd skirmishers
gloomy knoll
so you pump grash instead of goliath?
drifting cloud
and since we still 5 heal it it looks ending very weird where the boss is phased and the goliath is at like 50%
fleet anchor
We do speed strat on SLG
fallow otter
WW isn't even very good on Sire imo
Slg I was talking is 1.4k
gloomy knoll
man i wish my guild did that wtf
fleet anchor
We are at 7:31
For SLG
It makes the fight about a billionty% more enjoyable
Doing that strat change was soooo amazing
fallow otter
Yeah we did first lot fast from the get go
Then we do 2 then 2
We could do 4 easy
fallow otter
So we still sitting at like 8.45
fleet anchor
I mean I'm not sure the longer kill is strictly terrible for parsing, it's kinda hard to say
Depends on how much you can pad in the intermissions
drifting cloud
my best parse is on a 8:30 kill
fallow otter
That 9.6k parse was 9min lol
drifting cloud
but its mostly because of necro
fleet anchor
I haven't had a properly great parse attempt on it since going Necro
I've gotten a few low 90%s
drifting cloud
sbs is like 13% of my dmg
fleet anchor
But I know I can do higher
Both those last parses I've gotten mechanics during lust in P3
Like backup soak in one, and blades in the other
Big sad
fleet anchor
Last week I got I think 4 Wicked Blades
gloomy knoll
because our chickens won't hold dps when told to
so i get winds during mechanics as well
fleet anchor
And 2 Crystalize
gloomy knoll
like upheaval lol
fleet anchor
And every upheaval right
drifting cloud
just blow up the 1st skirm
with wind nerfs it seems to work out even if you push the other 2 at a bad time
fleet anchor
yeah winds nerfs makes it pretty easy
drifting cloud
aslong as its not both 2s before soak
fleet anchor
double push is fairly safe
it's like only -3 meters a second or something
If you're running against it
Oh yeah, and also to add insult to the injury of that pull
I accidentally Vendetta'd immune Greshal instead of big dude in P2I
Was not my finest work
On the plus side, only can go up from there! 😄
drifting cloud
yeah Ill try for a week or two then I might just go back to necro and with necro you cant really improve parses on half the raid
fleet anchor
Necro is fun
misty holly
Need to find an enhancement shaman and a necrolord warrior who both use Ocarinas for my group. And at least 3 priests cycling PI on me.
parse time!
fleet anchor
haha
Feels like it's easier to get 8 PIs on a fight than actually find an Enhance 😄
gloomy knoll
trueeeee
drifting cloud
on the other hand I need to be venthyr for like 8 months to max the court reps 
lost horizon
Just play in a casual guild, you get one prog kill and you gotta just pray you're not unlucky
Ez
gloomy knoll
drifting cloud
yes
dark jewel
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/osYk1By2CQ9rD9Fh5csCbT iqd simming better for me even tho crit is not my highest stat now, thoughts?
drifting cloud
yeah because its vers I guess?
what if you swap gems and enchants does crit become highest
dark jewel
no, haste is 605 and crit 450~ or something like that, vers still 2nd highest
i imagined iqd only worked if your crit was 1st highest and haste 2nd
drifting cloud
well yeah but you have 50 hate in gems/enchants so thats a 100 swing
keen cairn
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/osYk1By2CQ9rD9Fh5csCbT iqd simming better...
Tbh, I'd say fuck the 40 dps because IQD fucks u over big times
shy dust
i imagined iqd only worked if your crit was 1st highest and haste 2nd
No it’s still a good trinket
Just getting crit as venthyr makes it even better
keen cairn
Just getting crit as venthyr makes it even better
I assume because of the Seal of Fate passive? New to rogue, sorry
shy dust
I can’t tell you why
It could be that getting haste Iqd is bad
But getting crit Iqd instead of haste was like a 50 dps gain just from swapping gems to make crit my highest stats
keen cairn
Yeah haste IQD is terrible imo.
On my DK, I can't even spend fucking resources when I get the haste proc
It's awful
I can only imagine, that due to the crit buff, u have alot more seal of Fate procs therefore better flag ramp and more finishers during vendetta window
But again, picked up rogue 2 days ago
So idk
shy dust
Maybe or maybe not
high arch
Hey guys, you realizing some heals are breaking stealth?
limber lion
Hey guys, you realizing some heals are breaking stealth?
That's because of Theotar's Token of Appreciation conduit
Don't use it
high arch
I didnt knew it, thanks
limber lion
stoic needle
inland glacier
Can you explain please? I thought best trinkets were like phial and dreadfire (I'm noob trying to learn more)
stoic needle
apparently the mobile tooltip is incorrect
this trinket really isnt that good overall, it's very niche for mythic plus maybe because it gives a shit ton of mastery on a short cooldown
i might try it on SLG for memes
inland glacier
Ah I see
round trout
for ST lego, doomblade on hands w/ what stats?
stoic needle
gusty mirage
apparently the mobile tooltip is incorrect
ye it doesn't show ilvl scaling for items on the piece of trash mobile app
gusty mirage
2 destro locks, a ret pally, and an enhance shaman
balmy condor
That looks like a questionable breakdown
gusty mirage
what a comp
balmy condor
What is that
dark jewel
lmao
balmy condor
Also no tanks
balmy condor
Is that’s the vdh symbol
gusty mirage
apparently no covenant
balmy condor
gusty mirage
probably has one of those bobbing bird things that taps over and over again on divine storm
went afk
limber lion
That's Havoc lol
gusty mirage
is it?
balmy condor
That’s what I thought
limber lion
Yes
gusty mirage
why tf do they both look so similar
limber lion
The breakdown looks like the HC Sire kill I did a few weeks ago
balmy condor
limber lion
Except most of our dps did 4-4.9k dps and I did 6.9. Most of the raid being under 4k is mega scuffed lmao
gusty mirage
Except most of our dps did 4-4.9k dps and I did 6.9. Most of the raid being und...
6.9 
limber lion
limber lion
why tf do they both look so similar
Vengeance is more greyish/greenish.
gusty mirage
one day I hope I can 99 parse so I can make you proud Cev
gusty mirage
Vengeance is more greyish/greenish.
yeah I just looked it up
limber lion
Doesn't have those purple bits
gusty mirage
my only 99 parse this tier is a heroic sludge as outlaw 
limber lion
I got a 89 from m Sludge yesterday. Look at me giving advice to people who can't parse 95+ on it and then I fail to do so as well
gusty mirage
yeah but we still love you
limber lion
Anyone to analyze my logs? :(
limber lion
yeah but we still love you
Ily2
misty zenith
I like assa, it is so similar to my feral
without the talons procs
I think, i still struggle with energy pooling and trying to go too fast
Since Justruss said its slow and methodical 😄
and i found myself mashing mutilate too much in keys
limber lion
I would say get whispyr to do it
Nah just meming, I know what I can do better.
limber lion
and i found myself mashing mutilate too much in keys
Yeh that's pretty typical.
misty zenith
Although i am improving, i did 4.4k overall in a 14 ToP on a 207 assa rogue
Not THAT bad
limber lion
Grasping the idea that you can just chill and not hit a button for 2s can take a while.
misty zenith
True, i have that same issue with feral as well
I get so caught up, fuck i am not doing anything
limber lion
I used to be a button smasher in Legion. Well I still smash but I used to aggressively smash them as much ad possible.
misty zenith
Now with feral, this means you can go owl weave, but i hate that
gusty mirage
Nah just meming, I know what I can do better.
I'm not, Whispyr scares me
limber lion
But you can just chill.
misty zenith
So just a quick question
Energy pooling for Assa is just sitting with enough CPs for a finisher and holding a bit?
gusty mirage
tbh its rough for me to like look through logs, like I can tell instantly where I fucked up my rotation by ruining a shiv window, or just brain farting my CDs, or refreshing bleeds early
misty zenith
So that you have more energy coming out of the finisher
limber lion
Energy pooling for Assa is just sitting with enough CPs for a finisher and holdi...
Pretty much.
limber lion
tbh its rough for me to like look through logs, like I can tell instantly where ...
Just gotta own up to the mistakes, nothing else to do really. Just focus on not making that midtake the next time and eventually it becomes second nature.
balmy condor
but late night whispyr scares me
limber lion
Just gotta own up to the mistakes, nothing else to do really. Just focus on not ...
Not making thr mistake and playing properly that is.
misty zenith
Like in M+, i still have an issue to quickly see how i can properly garrote
On the opener
I think the issue is, i want to be too fast
gusty mirage
<a:aParrotCrazy:716134054029951056>
pls no stab 😦
limber lion
What do you mean properly?
last cedar
if you're energy starved you'll miss the third one
misty zenith
Looking which target i already garroted with subterfuge
last cedar
oh
limber lion
Fair enough
last cedar
just remember 
balmy condor
If you tab you won’t hit one
last cedar
tab faster
hollow escarp
You don't mouseover garrote?
misty zenith
No, i usually tab
last cedar
I'm too busy moving with my mouse dude...
gusty mirage
You don't mouseover garrote?
you mouseover garrote? 
hollow escarp
No
hollow escarp
I wanna apply poisons
balmy condor
I actually have an entire action bar full of /tar macro’s for each mob in the dungeon
gusty mirage
a REAL gamer
balmy condor
So I just equip the garrote macro for the dungeon
hollow escarp
balmy condor
And spam that shit
gusty mirage
1-6 -> garrote
last cedar
you guys don't use midi boards to play?
misty zenith
I operate another razer naga with my feet
gusty mirage
I use a DDR pad for movement
I'm next level gaming over here in 2031 while y'all are stuck in 2021
last cedar
it's called retro
gusty mirage
you age shaming me? 
gusty mirage
Instantly has to dunk on boomers
jolly phoenix
What will the Internet do when the last boomer dies.
hollow escarp
find new memes
jolly phoenix
To be fair, I’ll probably be dead before the last boomer dies, and I’m a millennial.
balmy condor
So anyways y’all like shiv?
jolly phoenix
Whenever anyone says zoomer I think of that Mazda advert.
hollow escarp
So anyways y’all like shiv?
I want toxic blade back
balmy condor
That’s shiv
jolly phoenix
limber lion
Emeni
torn atlas
Tb just makes me think of tuberculosis.
giving the opponent TB might be good in pvp
sick cairn
thanks
jolly phoenix
giving the opponent TB might be good in pvp
Sounds like a war crime.
limber lion
hollow escarp
torn atlas
duit
hollow escarp
gonna swap after the raid tonight
gusty mirage
one of us! one of us! one of us!
hollow escarp
if Cev did it, so shall I
torn atlas
I dislike being stinky. but SBS is bae
hollow escarp
I don't care anymore tbf
gusty mirage
I think I just stay stinky now unless it gets nerfed into the ground
I'm so over switching back and forth
hollow escarp
I got portal 3 on NF and Venthyr 
limber lion
It's official
gusty mirage
proud of you for being a rank 1 procrastinator @hollow escarp 🙂
dry void
is there a console command to show covenant levels for all 4 on a char?
gusty mirage
I don't think so
north basin
Why swapping btw?
limber lion
Wtf, I just used my Hearthstone (which was set to the Venthyr sanctum) and it put me outside (as it should) but my character is now completely invisible
gusty mirage
Perma stealth 
@limber lion
dense axle
You've unlocked the secret
limber lion
I thought it was a rendering error, but it has been like this for like 3 minutes now
and I've tried mounting and whatnot
hollow escarp
tbf, that rendering issue happens to me a lot in Revendreth
gusty mirage
try relogging
dense axle
I mean, it still is a rendering error :-)
hollow escarp
like I arrive on flight point and my character is invisible but I am still able to mount and move around
limber lion
Yeh probably
gusty mirage
it happened to my DH I glided down to the maw and couldn't see my character or mount or hearth or anything
dense axle
Queue for an arena skirmish. I remember that working on beta
hollow escarp
pvp
limber lion
It's probably just tied to the client, right?
Like everyone else can see me just fine.
dense axle
Almost certainly
limber lion
Yeh
gusty mirage
yea try the arena skirm thing
limber lion
I've just been wanting to switch to Necro for weeks now
dense axle
limber lion
It just depends on what content you do and what you want to focus on.
dense axle
It's fun as sin
limber lion
I enjoy Flag and seeing high sim numbers and pumping in ST
dense axle
I'm proging denathrius and it's great
limber lion
But it's time to move on.
gusty mirage
new challenges await
like figuring out how tf to do the abomination factory
if you figure it out lmk pls
dense axle
You really wanna see your numbers tank, go necro sub
Do the emeni quest oxi
To completion
limber lion
if you figure it out lmk pls
I don't really do any of the covenant content. Didn't upgrade a single thing as a Venthyr :p
gusty mirage
I did some kill mawsworn shit in bastion
and now it just seems like a lot of work for little reward
limber lion
Aight the arena skirmish thing worked. Cheers boys
limber lion
and now it just seems like a lot of work for little reward
Yeh, I pretty much only care about my dps and as long as those things don't increase my numbers, then I don't really care for them :p
hollow escarp
I think I have Queen's conservatory rank 3
gusty mirage
I found the necro campaign not terrible, but that's probably cause it was the first time I did it
hollow escarp
but I deleted all my NF seeds when I swapped 
dense axle
I've heard necro campaign is the worst of the four
gusty mirage
but the kyrian campaign can die in a fire
I did it on my rogue, on my monk, on my vdh, and on my hpal
limber lion
Necro is like the second best.
gusty mirage
fuck those blue fuckers
limber lion
Venthyr is probably the worst
Well depends on how you would rate the campaigns of course
hollow escarp
you haven't done NF?
gusty mirage
I did on my mage
limber lion
Story, theme, length, difficulty, annoyance
hollow escarp
NF is all over the place, lots of stories started, almost none finished
gusty mirage
nothing is more annoying than the kyrian redridge mountains scenario
I've had that scenario bug out on me on every character where I had to drop it and restart it from the fucking beginning
hollow escarp
I've had that happen on launch day
there is a venthyr scenario
at the end of the campaign
one of the mobs was evading and there were no others to kill
so I had to restart
hybrid cosmos
hey guys, im pretty sure it was asked before, but how do we use our cds on sludgefist? Do we sit on vendetta etc. until the first pillar, or do we use it on pull and then 2nd and 4th?
as long als you dont hit the wall (5th push) it should be better to use it right away?!
torn atlas
Only good thing about the NF campaign was Bwonsamdi
Then again the only good thing about Kyrian was Uthers story.
shrewd night
You really wanna see your numbers tank, go necro sub
Come on man, calling me out like this
vital tapir
You really wanna see your numbers tank, go necro sub
what's wrong with it?
less casts of backstab.
from where I stand that's pure profit
prisma monolithBOT
In general simming yourself is the recommended way to determine stat weights.
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simulation.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
plain warren
Hello guys, i joined a guild and they are on council mm. as assassination rogue what can I do to improve on this fight ? (Yesterday I completely failed so I swapped back on outlaw for the fight but I was wondering if any of you have advice for it
Also im necrolord
limber lion
Hello guys, i joined a guild and they are on council mm. as assassination rogue ...
Just pump single target, have bleeds up on one extra target.
LFR Shriekwing (we killed it)
limber lion
LFR is a work of art
plain warren
Garrote + rupture on 2nd target that's it ?
limber lion
Garrote + rupture on 2nd target that's it ?
Yeh pretty much, make sure to have deadly poison on the second target as well
torn atlas
I haven't played council since switching necro but imagine the answer here is yes as it will generate you more CP.
But the spike clears after a target heals to full. So you'll need to reapply after each boss dies.
Might wait til someone else answers though. As it may be more value spiking small adds that die quick (and refund spikes).
plain warren
ok im gonna try it to, thanks for answers
limber lion
Just did my first Sire kill as Necro (LFR)
And I've gotta say
This shit is pretty dank
shrewd night
the fuck
limber lion
SBS is bugged on Sire where it doesn't get removed from the adds when they die. So during the last phase you get 5 combo points from every single SBS.
shrewd night
limber lion
It's the same in Mythic as well. Pretty dank
shrewd night
The attendants or whatever?
limber lion
Ye
shrewd night
vestal cargo
xd
shrewd iron
i've been told you can get cto buffs when in assa spec, is this true? and if it is, is it worth playing it?
shrewd iron
which one is it?
sinful cradle
..cto
vestal wren
^ there is only one that says "grants you a rtb buff"
shrewd iron
does envenom work to grant u a buff as well or are u only able to get it from ambush?
shrewd iron
and it's not even worth playing when playing blindside?
vestal wren
no, thats why i did say "its not a good option"
its bad because you can even get buffs that don't work on assassination
shrewd iron
y i understand
open lion
Yea well placed steel is better in that slot
vestal wren
limit max did troll in his stream, he did replace one of the best conduits with cto iirc
but it was possibly just entertainment, i do think(hope) he knows that lashing is a lot better than cto
open lion
Y’all aren’t running two potency?
vestal wren
it depends on the covenant you pick
open lion
Is dauntless that much better over having lashing and WPS?
vestal wren
venthyr is usually running one
vestal wren
just sim it tbh
open lion
Yea.
vestal wren
its the best way to know for your gear situation
stoic needle
Yeah wps isn't that good
open lion
That’s what I thought
stoic needle
Sin almost never runs double potency
vestal wren
9.1 could be interessting with the potential to run one additional potency
open lion
Yea it would be nice
stoic needle
Maim/mangle 
open lion
I was considering that just for keys tho
stoic needle
Considering what
open lion
Maim/mangle
open lion
True
vestal wren
i am still not convinced that assassination is good in keys
it can make up quite a bit by going necro, but i don't think it competes with outlaw
i am also not sure what role subtlety will take in 9.1, the aoe buff could make it good if affixes play out decently well
odd hazel
i feel sin does fine in Keys, but Outlaw is honestly the way to go if you want to push more easily.
silent fossil
in dumps on 14s which is all the vault needs 
stoic needle
I feel like it does similar damage to outlaw but has slightly less utility
That's more than enough to be a good m+ spec
vestal wren
i think it does less damage but not in a area that would make it bad
stoic needle
I don't think it actually does less damage though
placid cobalt
@vestal wren tbh in the 21-22 key range i dont see much difference in overall playing sin vs outlaw
vestal wren
compared to subtlety that requires very specific pulls to compete
placid cobalt
might be me tho
formal cliff
How can I make a SBS aura that glows when a mob I'm targeting is not affected by it? 
vestal wren
seli iirc plays it now, best is probably to have some anecdotal evidence from his games
if he logs on wcl (what he probably isn't) it would be possible to generate some statistics
placid cobalt
like practically speaking, i will close any dungeon within 300-400 dps between the specs
tops, sometimes they do the same
on dungeons like DOS i genuinely believe assa can even be better due to target cap in ardenweald zone too
stoic needle
That's been my experience as well
placid cobalt
playing necro ofc
heavy trail
@formal cliff add a condition to your WA trigger
vestal wren
sub might be a reasonable pick in dungeons that have a lot of higher target aoe or pure st
in 9.1
placid cobalt
really hope so, tbh i doubt sub buffs will make it the pick over assa if nothing else changes, would be cool to play it in dungeons tho
vestal wren
outlaw atm rly only falls behind if you have consistent high target counts or a lot of pure st
the target cap is the biggest "issue"
hard to say tbh
how we play dungeons will decide what spec is good, i just feel that sin/outlaw offer similar strenghs
placid cobalt
i think outlaw is just hard to gauge effectively, with rolls and all
royal lantern
rolls dont make a big difference
people REALLY love too blame RtB
when SS procs themself make a bigger difference
vestal wren
rolls make a diffrence but people do blame them to much
formal cliff
<@!228914800418095104> add a condition to your WA trigger
But what would it be?
vestal wren
outlaw is not any better/worse because of rtb
stoic needle
It has a lot more variance in general
Sin is very consistent especially with necro so you don't have to rely on fok
heavy trail
Here's mine if you want to check it out you would simply make sure you attribute the conditon to the "debuff" trigger and use a active false condition
vestal wren
so has mage, and you will not argue that you don't bring it for that reason
placid cobalt
everything counts, including rolls. outlaw is inconsistent that way, even tho sure, if a 30 minute dungeons your rolls might average out
royal lantern
bruh, a good outlaw wont suddenly do 2k dps more or less cus of rolls lmao
vestal wren
people just have this perception that outlaw has this big damage swings due to rolls
royal lantern
^
placid cobalt
but still, u cant tell me entering a pack with bl and dmg pot with snd refresh buff is the same as with double cp buff
stoic needle
It's not just because of rolls, but outlaw has some of the highest variance of any spec in the game
placid cobalt
id rather loose 300 overall dps and have the guarantee that i will do damage on hard packs where i actually need it
vestal wren
its super hard to discuss this topic
placid cobalt
personally, but i understand people have different views
stoic needle
Feels weird if you ar on the pull on mueh'zalah and don't get it back up for the totem because u got shit rng
When sin could just hold vendetta
placid cobalt
main real issue i see with sin is vendetta in key
it's just underwhelming to have a cd like that
placid cobalt
yeah but it's still trash compared to your average 2 min cd
in aoe packs, ofc on bosses it's fine
i feel like vendetta is a far greater issue than the lack of gauge people keep mentioning
royal lantern
id rather loose 300 overall dps and have the guarantee that i will do damage on ...
mate, outlaw is good for keys BECAUSE it does good dmg all the time lol
you make it sound like as if you sometimes just wont do anythig
wich is simply not the case
placid cobalt
mhhh outlaw is not really good because of output but because of controls you need on high keys, if u wanted raw dmg u wouldnt bring rogue, i see what u try to say tho
placid cobalt
i said, if i loose some dmg but got better damage profiles, it's a tradeoff i'd be happy to make
like people are so fixated on which spec does 100 extra dps in dungeonslice, i don't think thats the point
vestal wren
otulaw has a very good damage profile for m+
placid cobalt
sure, what i was trying to say is that output is not the main reason they take rogues into keys, with that said, ofc you still evaluate specs based on how much damage they do
my argument was, pure numerical output at the end of the dungeon is not the only thing that matters, as outlaw you might have terrible rng in key situations
assa is pretty much the same, you can play every pack in the dungeon with minimal variance, i think that matters for something
also there are people at 3k rio as assa, precisely proving the point im trying to make, unless you go for world first keys, u can play it
vestal wren
output is the first thing you consider when picking a dps in any content
royal lantern
^
utility is fine
but you NEVER take something only for utility
utility makes a strong pick better
placid cobalt
but then why you see no dk or monks? their output in key is higher than rogue
royal lantern
it doesnt make a weak pick good
vestal wren
some specs have insane utility, but did not get picked in m+ because others did just outpeform them
thats why limit max can talk about some classes being insane in utility and overall lable them as op
because they managed to be #1 in damge and #1 in utility (kinda)
placid cobalt
fair enough
still at the end of the day, i honestly doubt the gap between the 2 specs is relevant enough to mean anything except perhaps at extremely high levels
also who knows what happens moving forward, if they dont change the necro leggo in ptr outlaw will be 100% top spec forever 😄
heavy trail
if i downgrade my 11 key will it become another dungeon or the same one?
placid cobalt
same
heavy trail
darn ok guess ill have to run this SD then lol since no one picks me for anything haha 🙂 Thanks!
placid cobalt
if u wanna change it u need to finish the dung sadly
vestal wren
necro legendary sounds quite good atm ^^
heavy trail
trying to get all 10s on yer own with no friends is a bit of a pain as even guys with 300 IO (a lot lower than me) seem to need to have 1500 or so lol....
royal lantern
its not that
its simply
you have 40other dps in the queue
and 50%of them are FotM classes/specs
and probs a higher rio
so why take you espacily
heavy trail
@royal lantern Not necessarily some groups sit for a while there even when I have applied and been denied
placid cobalt
unrelated, but does anyone know if the teleports u get in 9.1 are retroactive?
young herald
so has mage, and you will not argue that you don't bring it for that reason
cries in 500 frostbolt casts with no BF / FoF procs 🥲
heavy trail
Sometimes it works like that try to get applied asap but I think quite often it's just wanting an easier time (at least that's the expectation when you take a higher IO / ilevel feller)
young herald
yeah starting a group for a 14 and you'll have 72 applicants immediately 
heavy trail
Yeah , should make some friends last guild fell apart lol.. oh well wish I was horde some fellers on here offered to help haha
Just so hard to get used to no shadowmeld...lol
brave vector
I mean the problem isn’t really fixed by switching to horde
sick cairn
SBS is soo good i dont regret swapping haha
placid cobalt
SBS is fun to play with at the very least 😄
brave vector
I’m not amazing or anything, but I’m still 220 and ~1300io and I get declined to groups that aren’t even running keys > 10s
placid cobalt
i mean, there are 1000 reasons why people get declined, i wouldnt overthink it even tho it can be frustrating
vestal wren
its 90% of the time just because they have someone with higher r.io or meta class apply
people don't give to much thought who to invite, they see high r.io and right class and pick that
heavy trail
yeah FUU that's basically probably it the most of the time and people want it easy and the system sorta supports/encourages that.
sick cairn
@brave vector people only want ranged dps
placid cobalt
the real issue is higher rio people still spam 14's for gear, so thats your competition
placid cobalt
so ur 1.4 rio guy, and im 2.3 rio guy, we both need weekly 14 on shit weeks, we both apply to same key
heavy trail
@brave vector Never indicated if i switch to horde I am going to miraculously get invited to keys lol. Just had some nice fellers offer to run some so was more of just a thought 🙂 haha
brave vector
Fair, but having that mentality when you aren’t even running a dungeon with 4 affixes just seems toxic af
Like I’ve been declined to 4s even after getting KSM
placid cobalt
man sometimes i get declined for 14's at 2.3k
by people over 1k lower
it's no logic people are insane
maybe they see streamer saying "oh you need mage to run this dungeon" and they think it applies to their 14 weekly no leaver run
heavy trail
It's what FUU said thjey want an even higher guy so its easy
placid cobalt
yy, waiting on mdi champion to join their weekly keys 😄
all you can do is keep queuing, or better, join a guild with people who play at the same level and actually have fun playing
sick cairn
hello guys
i just swapped to necro this morning
i finished the campaign and stuff
im at renown 23 and im about to raid, i dont have full heimir
what soulbind should i be running?
young herald
yeah honestly, playing the guild lottery sucks, but it's so worth it. the guild finder doesn't distinguish between active members and total members, so you might join one with 200+ members but find <= 5 messages per day in guild chat 🥲
I found a good guild and it's honestly been so good, my lil team doesn't have any +15's done yet but we're working on it 😄
worn fossil
might be a stupid question , but anyways : i found myself struggling with targeting ( for example council mythic) what do you guys use for targeting? Mouseover? just tabbing? any advice?
untold garnet
i finished the campaign and stuff
Check the pins
limber lion
might be a stupid question , but anyways : i found myself struggling with target...
Just tab-targeting. Works completely fine, you just need to play with it more and it'll become second nature soon enough.
sick cairn
but im not full renown yet
sick cairn
oh
limber lion
Once you get Gemstones, you switch to Heirmir.
sick cairn
thanks, theres a weakaura for heimeir right?
limber lion
Yep.
young herald
Question: so I come from the Mage discord where the APLs aren't built for anything other than Patchwerk fight style, do Rogue APLs have similar problems?
limber lion
Question: so I come from the Mage discord where the APLs aren't built for anythi...
No. Our APL's are built for all encounters.
You can sim cleave, multi-target, dungeonslice, patchwork, execute - anything you wish for.
young herald
great, thank you 🙂
limber lion
It might be lacking when you introduce some random raid mechanical variances, like invulnerability, vulnerability, prio targets, forced movement etc. via the advanced sim.
But it works great when using just the normal encounter types.
young herald
Haha yeah my head hurts thinking how you would even code mechanics like that into a sim 😅
timber basalt
for m+, with MA, should I use heirmir still?
limber lion
for m+, with MA, should I use heirmir still?
You should sim it using Top Gear. But most likely yes.
timber basalt
You should sim it using Top Gear. But most likely yes.
using dslice?
limber lion
Yes.
tawdry wagon
Outside of the opener, should I be using vanish > garrote before or during vendetta? I checked the guides, but they don't seem to agree with each other.
limber lion
Outside of the opener, should I be using vanish > garrote before or during vende...
It depends on your talents.
When using Subterfuge, you use the vanish when your empowered garrote is in pandemic range. When using Master Assassin, you use it during the Vendetta/Shiv window.
Using Subterfuge will delay the use of Vanish
strange python
where can isee which twisting corridor is mortregar?
tawdry wagon
Thanks for the info, I am talking about playing with subterfuge, but I mean when you use your second vendetta. IV guide says to hold vendetta and use it after vanish/garrote, WH guide says to use vendetta then vanish/garrote during it. Wasn't sure which one was correct.
young herald
where can isee which twisting corridor is mortregar?
minimap
strange python
thank you
silent stratus
when should subterfuge should be talented? (in CN fights )
I am mostly running or BS + MA or EP + Vigor
but simming cleave add EP + Sub sims better
but idk how representative cleave add is for CN fights
timber basalt
think of which adds you might want to garrote
silent stratus
for example if inerva adds are not worth garroting (bc they die too fast except fat boi), prob sub isnt worth?
it seems that assa talents require much more analysis than other specs
if trying to optimize for a raid fight
limber lion
Thanks for the info, I am talking about playing with subterfuge, but I mean when...
You do NOT hold Vendetta. Which encounter are you playing Subterfuge on?
You can hold Vendetta if you know you won't miss a cast, but it's much safer to just slam it on cooldown.
tawdry wagon
I am playing it on Sire, but tbh was just looking for some general advice since the guides said different things.
vital tapir
lmao
why do you apply 2 ruptures
in what
2 secs
what.
w8, we have to call ceve to see this too
@limber lion
low girder
haha
hollow escarp
low girder
i shouldn't rag on the guy too hard
vital tapir
for anyone that's interested
low girder
i knew what i was getting into
vital tapir
this is a guy from my guild
low girder
oh god he did it again
vital tapir
what.
low girder
oh nvm
he ruptured an echo
for some reason
get some energy back though so no loss
hollow escarp
what boss?
low girder
heroic sire
hollow escarp
ahh
I do that if there is a solo ad and nobody is touching it
with close to full hp
low girder
any time there's over 4 targets
er
over 3
4+ is what i meant
also
that can't be right
lmao
you let an echo live for 25s?
hollow escarp
I casted 19 FoKs in a kill with HB
vital tapir
you let an echo live for 25s?
I don't bother with them bc I'm a sub rogue
I just use them to funnel
low girder
ye i just picked the one he ruptured
vital tapir
but we have hunters, mages, boomies etc
hollow escarp
low girder
heads up play
hollow escarp
guess why I delayed the vanish
hollow escarp
padding on ads 
hollow escarp
most damage in HC comes from P1
low girder
i haven't seen heroic in a while
hollow escarp
my best kill was still without padding
vital tapir
dude
hollow escarp
which is interesting in a way
vital tapir
why is his flag total