assassination

[gusty mirage]

o

well back up to 3k stygia 🙂

[stoic needle]

im gonna start doing the outlaw>sin bamboozle if this keeps happening

[kind talon]

hes memeing

guys

[hollow escarp]

but we are boomers

[gusty mirage]

this is the boomer rogue chat

[mossy sable]

Checkmate, run a ranged outlaw only build

[gusty mirage]

zoomers kindly go this way -> #outlaw

[stoic needle]

do i take the 8 dps upgrade or the stygia

[hollow escarp]

yes

[mossy sable]

I take offence to that

[gusty mirage]

stygia

[hollow escarp]

it's very niche

[mossy sable]

Your gonna get cancelled now on twitter

[hollow escarp]

but damage is nice on Decanter

[gusty mirage]

just take the stygia

lol

[kind talon]

decanter isnt real

[gusty mirage]

decanter's cone actually sucks

[hollow escarp]

damage is increased based on targets hit

[kind talon]

thats not correct damage

it will miss a lot

[bleak sky]

ty mr. mastery stacker

[stoic needle]

the stygia is like 3 days of dailies i'm already going to do though

[mossy sable]

I kinda wanna try doing a key as Sin

Maybe a +11

[gusty mirage]

as opposed to trinket you'll use maybe twice before giving up on it and going back to the IQD/phial

lol

[stoic needle]

i don't even use phial in m+

my ooze sims better

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

220?

[stoic needle]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

.... how

[hollow escarp]

well yeah

it was the same for me

[gusty mirage]

my 220 phial sims so much better than my 226 ooze

[stoic needle]

it sims better by like 20 dps

[hollow escarp]

but I was stubborn and used 220 phial

[mossy sable]

Does sin tend to run MFD and CT in M+?

[stoic needle]

phial sims better than ooze for single target

but not in dslice for some reason

[hollow escarp]

depends on build

[gusty mirage]

sims better in dslice for me too

[stoic needle]

vigor and ct

[gusty mirage]

[kind talon]

alright guys im gonna take my chinese test now

wish me luck :>

[gusty mirage]

gl gl

[stoic needle]

don't fail

[mossy sable]

Good luck

Don't die

Imagine the test in it's underwear

[kind talon]

[mossy sable]

Wait... Am I doing this wrong?

[kind talon]

zoots a boomer

[mossy sable]

I can assure you

I am not

[kind talon]

thats what a boomer would say

[stoic needle]

zoot... zoom.. zoomer....

[hollow escarp]

I get called zoomer because I play retail wow by my classic friends

[mossy sable]

Imagine being 20

Right

Couldn't be me

haha

[stoic needle]

@gusty mirage https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m8E73iEN8Paoa8CSky5Np2

[hollow escarp]

[mossy sable]

Imagine

If I could get a Phial

All hell would break lose

[alpine latch]

How are you guys doing in m+? I assume ASN doesn't have any issues running 15-17s?

[mossy sable]

I mean I guess it's good I got shoulders in my Vault

[stoic needle]

it makes me sad how bad anima battery is

[mossy sable]

Since these simmed best before

[stoic needle]

not one bit

[hollow escarp]

[heavy trail]

Got some higher ilevel stuff in the chest but crapper kinda stats oh well lol

[mossy sable]

What addon do you use to display the class?

[hollow escarp]

weak aura

[mossy sable]

Hmm

[stoic needle]

stats dont matter tbh

[hollow escarp]

will share

[heavy trail]

yeah that WA is great

[mossy sable]

I use an addon rn but blizz made it useless

[hollow escarp]

https://wago.io/klC4qqHaF

[mossy sable]

Premade Group Filter

Works like 1/3 of the time

[hollow escarp]

I have no clue how they find out the classes in the party

[frigid kestrel]

PGF is the legit shit, i will never pug without it

[mossy sable]

I like it

But shit doesn't work half the time

[frigid kestrel]

???

[mossy sable]

Not the creators fault

Pretty sure blizz fucked it over

[frigid kestrel]

What doesnt work?

It just wont allow you do focus on levels of keys

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

you can do that by searching

[frigid kestrel]

but its great for seeing groupd that have a spot open for you in targeted instances

[stoic needle]

if you search a number it shows you keys +1 or -1 of tha tnumber

[old depot]

Is 226 Shadowgrasp totem really good or is it just a sim trap?

[stoic needle]

so if you search 18 it shows 17 18 19

[stoic needle]

it's amazing

[old depot]

Ok, i should replace my skullkers 226 i guess right?

[stoic needle]

absolutely

[old depot]

the other one is Phial

[hollow escarp]

I've seen several people asking about that trinket being a simtrap, did some youtuber say that?

[stoic needle]

the other vault option or your other trinket 🤔

[old depot]

Other trinket

[stoic needle]

yeah, get the totem

[old depot]

My other option is a 226 Lady Innerva ring. Which could replace my 220 archnid? Id lose a lot of crit in favour of haste tho..

[stoic needle]

those rings are basically equivalent

id say sim your vault options

[old depot]

Ya i prefer to keep my crit. I guess Shadowgrasp is a no brainer

[stoic needle]

like a 226 inerva ring is a dps loss for me now

[mossy sable]

Aight so

[hollow escarp]

[mossy sable]

Do I just go head first into M+ as Sin

Like I am pretty sure I know how to do it as I ran it a bit in raid

[stoic needle]

practice on some dummies first

[hollow escarp]

it's different in M+ than it is in raids

[heavy trail]

And you wont' do great if you try to roll the keyboard like ret or ww gotta make sure to set up your stuff and be meticulous about getting bleeds up and such

[mossy sable]

Yeah...

Bleed are an issue in ST for me too

[heavy trail]

@stoic needle I am a sad panda. I wanted to do some dungeons with you lol

[stoic needle]

they're gonna be even more of an issue in m+ because they're the majority of your damage

[stoic needle]

[heavy trail]

@mossy sable Get some trackers going for multiples at least on the nameplates so you know what's up

[stoic needle]

you don't envenom much in aoe except to refresh snd

[mossy sable]

Do you even get an Envenom off in M+?

[mossy sable]

Ahh

lol

[stoic needle]

you envenom when the packs get down to 3 targets or less, or if there's more to refresh SND

[mossy sable]

I do have one I made that tracks stacks and time on current target

[heavy trail]

You are going to have to get crafty at weaving your GCDs to saturate as many mobs as possible while being efficient and estimating which will live long enough to warrant the CP, etc.

@stoic needle I might level my BE up and stuff but it might take some at least it would be good practice 🙂

[stoic needle]

you really need it on your nameplates unless you want to tab target everything to check

which i do sometimes

but i use both

[mossy sable]

I do have it on my nameplates too

[heavy trail]

@stoic needle When you say don't worry about stats, so just go for ilevel ?

Just an idea

if its desaturated and targeted it means not up

[stoic needle]

yes just go for ilvl

[heavy trail]

the 0s turn into how many of that particular bleed is up

[stoic needle]

only worry about stats once you get to 220+s

[heavy trail]

Ok

[hollow escarp]

I think any armor with main stat is always ilvl > secondary

[heavy trail]

Well maybe ill be a dork and gank up a BE and you can help me get even better 🙂

I am simming my 220 belt now

[frigid kestrel]

Fastest MOTs ever

[stoic needle]

pog

[frigid kestrel]

i hate PUGs

[stoic needle]

xD

[mossy sable]

Shoulda brang me

XD

[stoic needle]

where did it brick

[frigid kestrel]

First pull

So here is how it went

[stoic needle]

[mossy sable]

Who left first?

[frigid kestrel]

You guys know where to go to not bee seen by true site when i shroud to Mushroom room right?

Everyone says yes

Yall sure, i can show you now before i put key in

Everyone doesnt need to be shown

I shroud and legit everyone with the exception of the druid runs right through the mob with true site.

We kill pack and adjust and next pull Shammy dies and then leaves

[stoic needle]

[mossy sable]

So about how many bleeds can one keep up at once?

In M+

[frigid kestrel]

4

[stoic needle]

it depends on your CP generation

usually it's 3 garottes(because of the cd) and 2-3 ruptures

maybe more

[mossy sable]

Hmm ok

[stoic needle]

you should start out with 2-3cp ruptures

[frigid kestrel]

Whats your Cov?

[mossy sable]

Necro rn

I plan to go back to Venth when I finish renown

[stoic needle]

necro for m+ though

you want to open from stealth with 3 garottes > fok > CT

[frigid kestrel]

I typically do 4 Garrotes into a CT, and 2 SBS, 1 Rupture, 1 SBS, and then another Rupture

[stoic needle]

then sbs > rupture > sbs > rupture > sbs > rupture

[frigid kestrel]

1 SBS Rupture?

Isnt that like a 2 CP Rupture

?

[stoic needle]

yeah 2cp is fine

both of the openers we said work pretty much exactly the same

[heavy trail]

you can use your SBS to feed your ruptures due to seal fate might not always be the same but it's nice

[stoic needle]

whatever feels best for you

[frigid kestrel]

True

[stoic needle]

i just find that most mobs dont live the duration of a full rupture

so i like to start with 2-3cp ones to get the energy rolling

[gusty mirage]

[heavy trail]

Yeah you sorta gotta antipciate it

[stoic needle]

and then refresh on anything that lives long enough

[mossy sable]

idk if I should just go for it as Sin in this +12 Mists or swap to outlaw for now

[frigid kestrel]

Time to spend all day trying to get into a 19, since i cant get my 18 pushed now

[gusty mirage]

[frigid kestrel]

Not trolling with this question, but does it matter? At the start of a trash pack them Ruptures will either stay the entire time or give you a huge energy return, ye? Or am i looking into it wrong

[gusty mirage]

I guess it's about min maxing your resources at the start of the pull

I'm a bigger fan of throwing a 5cp rupture and moving on personally

[frigid kestrel]

Ye same

[stoic needle]

the damage is wasted if you spend a bunch of energy and CP to drop a full rupture that they only live through 1/2 of

[frigid kestrel]

I dont throw any ruptures that are less then 4cp

[stoic needle]

since rupture's damage doesnt' scale with CP

its just more duration

you get some energy returned, but i still think its a net loss when you consider what you spent on a builder to get the cp for it

[frigid kestrel]

But the energy return is different, more resources = more abilities = more damage

[heavy trail]

its true but gut i suppose you have to "gauge" how much time they will live for

[stoic needle]

most of the time the energy return from them dying with rupture up is instantly overcapped

[heavy trail]

@stoic needle Plus you are wasting the CP/time invested that could have been spent on something else

[frigid kestrel]

Thats fair

[stoic needle]

i feel like its more efficient to do low ones to start, then refresh on anything big that lives long

doing 4cp only ruptures means you get less ruptures out overall

i do more damage since i started doing 2-3cp ones

the sim does 2-3cp ones as well

[frigid kestrel]

I feel the opposite, but we could differ in opinions depending on Keys levels/Pull Sizes

[mossy sable]

Easy fix guys

Never apply DoTs

Ez

[frigid kestrel]

and how long mobs stay up in each of our groups

[stoic needle]

i think we're doing similar key levels no? 17/18/19? not that much changes between those where it would change the playstyle that drastically

i think with necro you can afford to drop bigger ones easily

because you get lots of CP from SBS

[gusty mirage]

idk what key levels you're doing where mobs are dying with the duration of a 5cp rupture not being at or under pandemic range

tbh

[frigid kestrel]

Ye true, But 10 seconds in ill have two 5 CP ruptures rolling.... i dont normally see those mobs dying before the rupture wears off

[stoic needle]

but before when i was venthyr it was hard to get lots of 5cp ruptures rolling

[gusty mirage]

like 5cp rupture on non-elites being a waste, yeah I get that

[frigid kestrel]

Ye, this is true

[odd hazel]

tbh, if i see the group i have will be fine AoE wise, i just got ST build.

[stoic needle]

you should not do that

[frigid kestrel]

ye never do that

you are not being a asset

[gusty mirage]

if a mage cumboosts a pack doesn't matter how many cp ruptures you put up at that point tbh lol

[odd hazel]

i mean

i dont do anything higher the n15s

so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[stoic needle]

it doesnt really matter the key level tbh

its just not a good strategy to go st build ever in M+

[mighty bolt]

Mage will not have perma combus

[odd hazel]

i do fine honestly. i know i should switch but meh

[heavy trail]

Yeah was some punk ww that did 5.5kdps in one of my groups.. i barely had a chance to get anything going and everything was dead. Fucker bolstered everything too lol

[stoic needle]

only 5.5k

rae did 10.3k in mists the other day or something

on his monk

monk is dishonest

[cedar crater]

Im trying to switch to assassin, but i need 2 daggers. What is the quickest way to get them?

[stoic needle]

pvp conquest vendor

[odd hazel]

mists/sanquine if you dont wanna pvp

may luck be with you on those though

[gusty mirage]

y'all are funny comparing rae's fully geared monk with a competent group to a ww monk that's like doing 12s

[odd hazel]

^

[cedar crater]

ty

[stoic needle]

i still feel like you should be doing more than 5.5k in a 12 as a monk

[gusty mirage]

5.5k is fine

[heavy trail]

@stoic needle This was like an 8 or something and he was 200 ilevel

[gusty mirage]

when the fuck did everyone become a huge dong 7k dpser pushing 26s?

[odd hazel]

people think every ilvl is able to do 7k.

[frigid kestrel]

I wish i could push 26's

[gusty mirage]

I wish my tank would stop playing outriders so I can finish my 20s across the board

[heavy trail]

I did almost 4k onmy monk once at 175 or something haha.. but I don't find dpsing as a monk fun... it's not an art form like assassin or even my affliction or feral

[odd hazel]

Art form? Affliction?

[heavy trail]

I like dot/bleed classes

[tired vessel]

grins in malefic rapture nerfs

[odd hazel]

i like seeing my green fire to much on destro

so

ill prob switch to demo once i get the leggo

[odd hazel]

[teal bloom]

Will there be a new ptr build today?

[heavy trail]

yikes still 18k for 210 leg piece

[odd hazel]

shoulders were 60k when i last checked for 235

i'll prob save up to put my doomblade on gloves tbh.

[placid dawn]

or just wait for the catchup mechanic on 9.1 🤔

[obtuse ruin]

how important is vers for m+?

[odd hazel]

you mean a few months?

[scenic meteor]

Should I go doom blade or zoldyck for my sire denathrius normal fright tonight?

First time doing it so not sure

[stoic needle]

probably doomblade

it's normal so it shouldn't be that hard

[stoic needle]

it's nice for the damage taken reduction but it's not very important

i do a lot of m+ and have 8% vers so take that as you will

all of the other stats are more important imo

[odd hazel]

how much haste do you have? ( Im at 23% haste, i prob need to start switching it up to crit/vers )

[stoic needle]

Vers is my worst stat in both aoe and single target

[odd hazel]

interesting. im assuming you have a lot of crit mastery gear

[balmy anvil]

what should i macro my grim codex with? none of my other cd's are 90 seconds

[stoic needle]

Give it is own button

[balmy anvil]

that's so many buttons lol

its only 70 dps above my vial of caustic liquid, does shiv affect the nature damage from that trinket at all?

[pure moth]

Check pins

[compact pumice]

It’s a great stat for Outlaw!

[kind talon]

@gusty mirage all these ppl looking at overalls not thinking about how drastically tank pulls can affect it SMH

[hollow escarp]

that's Copium

for bad dps

[balmy anvil]

thx, how do i check pins in the in game overlay for discord?

[compact pumice]

I dunno, just put it on one of your secondary screens

[balmy anvil]

fair enough

[pure moth]

I usually tab out or use it on mobile. So unsure about the overlay

[balmy anvil]

yea i can find pins everywhere else, but the "pin" on the overlay isn't for pins haha

[compact pumice]

Have you tried googling it?

[vapid lantern]

so best assass leggo for m+ is zoldyk? but if we're going to dabble in outlaw in m+, then master assassin isnt far behind and works for both?

[bleak sky]

ok so IQD is def not a meme

thanks for the advice

[hollow escarp]

exactly

MA works for all specs

optimally as well for assa and outlaw

not sure about sub

[little sparrow]

MA is really bad on certain weeks or if you're tank is and won't give you a global to stealth

[hollow escarp]

yeah, the only thing they need to do is not chain pull

because we are usually spamming the stealth button after each pack

[stoic needle]

[bleak sky]

quick question tho

do any of you know the range of iqd?

it procced mana on inerva and fucked me over because a healer was oom

[stoic needle]

Seems to to be around 15-20 yd

[bleak sky]

hmmm

[shy dust]

mana is not 15-20 yards

i can promise you that

[compact pumice]

Doesn’t the weak aura take into account healer mana?

[bleak sky]

It might, I might have been stupid

[gusty mirage]

who ponged me?

[balmy condor]

The range is huge

It’s not worth thinking about just trust the wa

[hollow escarp]

and tell your healers to get better

[gusty mirage]

@stoic needle https://www.wowhead.com/spell=330376/inscrutable-quantum-device 100yards

[mighty bolt]

If your healer is oom and ur cool downs are about to come tell him/her to suicide

[gusty mirage]

the heal is also 100 yards for what its worth

[compact pumice]

Could make a pact with a monk that uses transcendence and you shadowstep to him and go LOS from the healers

[balmy condor]

100 yards?

[hollow escarp]

is there even a boss encoutner that has that 100 yards possibility?

[mighty bolt]

Better run then Shadowstep on boss to not lose that much uptime

[compact pumice]

Nah but I mean LOS might block it no?

[balmy condor]

No

[shy dust]

the iqd sync isnt worth any dps gain?

or is Koji wrong

[mighty bolt]

Killing healer seems best option here

[balmy condor]

Idk I haven’t looked

He says it works

[mighty bolt]

Tell them there is a combat Rez for they even if it’s not true

[gusty mirage]

bonus if your hpal is running ret aura

[mighty bolt]

Stonks

[hollow escarp]

@shy dust did you get full value on all IQD procs on SLG? or you just pop one on pull and then on hero?

[shy dust]

[hollow escarp]

I can see how it can heal/give mana

[shy dust]

I got stats on every usage of iqd on slg

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

I know man

[hollow escarp]

better than this

dk though

[mighty bolt]

Btw I’m running both trinkets from pf as assa, the slimes sims a lot for assa bcuz is nature damage?

[bleak sky]

spare meat hook

[hollow escarp]

shh

[stoic needle]

Wtf 100 yards?

[gusty mirage]

phial is nature damage too

[bleak sky]

btw anyone on a skip nathria group rn?

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure our nature damage does not impact those trinkets, they are just good

[bleak sky]

could really use an invite

[mighty bolt]

Phial is just broken but the other one only sims good as assa for me

Neither OL or Sub

[frail fossil]

wait what is this

[hollow escarp]

simmed my dk

[gusty mirage]

blasphemy flower, that's what

[mighty bolt]

Maybe haste?

[frail fossil]

so the dk apl just shows

opener

LOOOOOOOOL

[hollow escarp]

linked you the sim

[gusty mirage]

you just army and then afk?

sick class

[shy dust]

isnt that just them forcing certain actions

yeah it is

[hollow escarp]

I mean, they have to press like 8 buttons

before playing the class

it's like a plane

it's almost like sin rogue

[gusty mirage]

you watch your whore mouth sir

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

How do you get stats on every use in slg my 2nd and 3rd to uses were iffy

[gusty mirage]

sorry that was toxic

[hollow escarp]

it's fine

we are rogues

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

probably good healers

[thorny pond]

Rogue discord is least toxic class discord. You can't explain that.

[bleak sky]

TRUE

DH discord is a shitshow

[gusty mirage]

I've heard this many times, we just need zine back to threaten to stab us

and all will be right

[thorny pond]

Warrior discord in legion put out bad APLs on purpose if I remember correctly

[bleak sky]

APL = ?

[shy dust]

@stoic needle we have the boss on farm

and its a short kill for us

like 8 mins

[mighty bolt]

Guys how much u simming on ST 5m?

[stoic needle]

6.9k

[thorny pond]

a lot

[hollow escarp]

6.8

[mighty bolt]

All buffs?

[hollow escarp]

ofc

[shy dust]

Peasants 👀

[mighty bolt]

I thought I was pretty low but seems fine

[shy dust]

you cant be "pretty low"

the gear you get is what you get

[stoic needle]

[bleak sky]

apl =?

[shy dust]

unless youre a pvp duelist you dont have many options of 226 gear

[stoic needle]

"the gear you get is what you get" - person with fully bis gear

[mighty bolt]

Thought my gear was pretty bad but seems not

[bleak sky]

5.9k on a 209 rogue

[shy dust]

i earned it

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Action priority list, it’s the set of instructions the sim takes to play the character

[bleak sky]

oh, makes sense

[vestal wren]

not even 7k

[hollow escarp]

yeah

even with enha shaman in group

I'm close to 6.9k though

[vestal wren]

nice

[hollow escarp]

[mighty bolt]

I want a enha in my grp

😦

[bleak sky]

it's either 6969 or 6666

[balmy condor]

What kind of weirdo doesn’t sim nightly

[hollow escarp]

is that how I'm supposed to do it?

also why?

[balmy condor]

I mean won’t make a difference atm

But if an APL change gets pushed

You won’t see it until Monday

[hollow escarp]

I see

[balmy condor]

[vivid wyvern]

overcharged anima battery is pretty trash huh

[limber lion]

Yuuuuuup

[sick cairn]

does anyone have a mousover macro for SBS?

[kind talon]

/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Serrated Bone Spike

check #outlaw pins as well

[sick cairn]

oh poi

wassap dude

[kind talon]

sup

optimized sbs usage for singletarget is during gemstone proc

btw

get a weakaura

[mighty bolt]

So always nightly?

[sick cairn]

sure man

[balmy condor]

Yeh no real reason not to

It won’t do anything different 95% of the time

[thorny pond]

Unless someone here messes up the apl

[balmy condor]

That’s very difficult

[thorny pond]

You're smart

Us apes not

[hollow escarp]

I guess weekly is fine for alts as you are less likely to follow on the community news

[balmy condor]

Changes don’t get accepted unless they’ve been shown to be gains and not impact performance otherwise

Like a change for single target with a loss in aoe, needs to be edited to reflect that and negate the aoe loss

[thorny pond]

Next April fools put out a nightly that has 50% bleed uptime and desyncs vanish with vend

[sick cairn]

hey i know u said like

use SBS on gem procs

but like we can use em how ever we want in renown 2?

[mighty bolt]

Shiv windows

And when u going to cap

[sick cairn]

holy crap

i

wtf is this

[hollow escarp]

[sick cairn]

i used 1 SBS

got got full CP

is this real???

got got full CP

[hollow escarp]

you know better

[sick cairn]

this changes everyhting

[shy dust]

1 SBS will not fill up your cp

with multiple targets it can

[sick cairn]

dude

i put an SBS on sire

one on remornia

i hit the boi

the cabalist BOI

THE WHOLE THING GOT FILELD

[shy dust]

yes

sire p2

[sour wraith]

sbs on sire is really buggy

[shy dust]

is very good for sbs

[sick cairn]

it really is btw

[shy dust]

and its a bit buggy

[sick cairn]

honestly

[sour wraith]

they'll act like you have a bunch up all the time

[shy dust]

can get max cp for usages of sbs in p3 for a bit

[sick cairn]

true

[silent stratus]

so u dont follow the logic of #outlaw sbs optimization except during gemstone proc?

[shy dust]

no

[sour wraith]

Outlaw is different because with sin, especially with doomblade, mutilate is a more efficient builder (in ST) for combo points, damage, and poison generation (as well as applying the bleed if you have doomblade), whereas for outlaw, SBS is a more efficient builder than SS without S&C's buff

[shy dust]

the usage for assa is

dump charges during gemstone procs

[silent stratus]

dump charges during gemstone procs w/o overcapping CPs
use 1 charge if it's overcapping
hold otherwise

?

[shy dust]

dump charges during gemstones

dont overcap

[silent stratus]

yes thats what I said

but I guess u would dump charges w/o overcapping cps

[shy dust]

yes

[silent stratus]

ty

[shy dust]

thats obvious

[balmy condor]

I think you should slam 3 sbs in a row, and follow it with a mutilate

[silent stratus]

during gemstone proc?

[balmy condor]

Just to see what would happen

Maybe overcapping like 15 combo points unlocks an achievement or something idk

[silent stratus]

there was not one time I ever saw you answer to my question w/o sarcasm or passive aggressive attitude

[shy dust]

well its just

why would you overcap CP

its like a basic rogue fundamental to not overcap cp

[sour wraith]

That one torghast power that does 3% extra builder damage as aoe for every combo point you have

[shy dust]

gemstone lasts for 10 seconds

can you somehow not fit 2 globals in there without overcapping

[balmy condor]

The sarcasm keeps me sane when I read questions that make me sad

[silent stratus]

well there can be multiple things that I potentially lack of knowledge bc I'm a noob as assa, such as SBS is so good during gemstone that u wanna spam asap idk

im sorry that my lack of knowledge makes u sad

not everyone is so good like u

only asking these questions I can become such

[balmy condor]

Time to evolve past “do I overcap” then

[silent stratus]

it's still not clear why SBS get so much priority during gemstone compared to having 2x env

[kind talon]

its only

for singletarget

[balmy condor]

Sbs hits really hard

[kind talon]

its the same as OL for all other situations

multitarget its your prio cp generator

whether or not you have gemstone

in singletarget for assa you want to hold for gemstone because it does a lot of damage

[silent stratus]

yes but then why not using all charges in ST as you do as outlaw?

[balmy condor]

Wdym

You get 1 up super early

[kind talon]

because we have seal fate

outlaw doesnt have seal fate

[balmy condor]

And then the rest in gemstone

[kind talon]

so they have different optimization for ST

[silent stratus]

Idk how often u get the gemstone proc (ie whats the average proc timing), but I am wondering how can holding charges w/ gemstone be better on using all charges anytime ending at exactly max cp (as outlaw)

[kind talon]

you cant hold charges on gemstone

[silent stratus]

yes I know

[kind talon]

it happens once per minute

[silent stratus]

I mean holding charges of SBS

isnt related to ur crit %?

[kind talon]

you hold charges of sbs for gemstone

thats the whole optimization its not that bad

imo

for outlaw because they dont have seal fate and always get the same # of cp from sbs

they have a different optimization

[silent stratus]

no its perfectly clear, I didnt test APL so I have no numbers, just guessing

Im sure that's the best APL

[kind talon]

you cant target a # cp as assa because of seal fate

thats why its different

[silent stratus]

I see

I never changed anything in my rotation during gemstone proc so I guess I will change that

[kind talon]

as outlaw its always 2 cp or 3 with broadsides

👍

[balmy condor]

Aside from finishing at max-1 APL doesn’t actually account for seal fate

And that’s mostly a mutilate thing

[silent stratus]

if gem is ~1 min, wouldnt fit shiv w/ gemstone worth?

[summer socket]

for m+ is shadowgrasp totem pretty good?

[balmy condor]

Yeah, it lines up that way fairly naturally

[balmy condor]

Shadowgrasp is a pretty good totem in general, yep

[summer socket]

my vault has a 220 phial or 226 shadowgrasp

assuming shadowgrasp is the go to here?

[kind talon]

sim it

[balmy condor]

Id take the shadowgrasp and valor the 220 phial

But yeh

Sim is the answer

[kind talon]

its the only way

[summer socket]

thanks for input! appreciate it guys

[balmy condor]

Np

[untold nest]

For sire mythic would u recommend emeni x2 potency or heirmir ?

If anyone experimented with both :)

[stoic needle]

Probably heirmir

[silent stratus]

why I keep reading ppl saying that dslice isnt as reliable for assa?

is it just random rumors?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Dslice is fine

[hollow escarp]

are those SL rumors?

[silent stratus]

ty

[balmy condor]

It’s an old thing from bfa

[hollow escarp]

yeah

probably

[balmy condor]

Where people thought it was playing EB wrong

[untold nest]

Am starting prog next week on it, any tips for the fight? :p

[balmy condor]

(It wasn’t)

[stoic needle]

Where did you read this

[silent stratus]

every few days in discord pretty much

[balmy condor]

Emeni is just less damage, so I would want to go heirmir Just on principle

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure stuff like that gets countered pretty fast

[hollow escarp]

Ion hit the pain point

[thorny pond]

You wait long enough here someone will give you a wrong or dissenting opinion

[onyx wind]

Yes we are lacking in raid utility

We have none

Thanks

[hollow escarp]

SHROUD ON PULL

[thorny pond]

Give us the option to apply the magic or physical damage taken debuff to poisons

[silent stratus]

imagining save ninjapulls multiple times w/ shroud and being told we do not have raid utilities

[onyx wind]

Id rather just have them remove raid utility from classes than add it onto rogue

[untold nest]

I mean, i got a clip saving the raid on slg with grappling hook, soaking a double eruption on 0.2. SHOW ME A DK DOING THAT

[hollow escarp]

do we have any 200 ilvl sims?

[balmy condor]

We have tricks

Ez utility

[compact pumice]

Both and battle shout too!

TBH is it time to give rogues WF????

[hollow escarp]

no

[compact pumice]

I feel it’s time

[hollow escarp]

we don't need spotlight

remember Zul

??

[compact pumice]

Max already fucked us

Ion referenced Max’s video several times

[hollow escarp]

well, his video is not bad

I actually watched that live

[compact pumice]

So RIP Assa’s damage but we get some raid utility maybe

[strange python]

didnt max say if a raid was favorable to melee he'd just stack dks cuz amz?

[hollow escarp]

the wrong thing was that rogue was not centered in excel

and others were

[plain thistle]

which video? the one he talks about melees in raids?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[silent stratus]

really? can u link this to me?

when Ion referenced to Max

[compact pumice]

He just had the livestream

They talked about melee spots

[hollow escarp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irqzQ5YmcJU

[onyx wind]

Do u guys actually want raid utility because u find it fun, or just to increase the chances of having a raid spot

[compact pumice]

He meant when ion referenced it

[stoic needle]

Yes

[strange python]

its nice to be useful

and its nice to have a raid spot too

[hollow escarp]

I would prefer to bring no utility as a pure dps class but do more damage than hybrid classes with raid utility

[stoic needle]

It's easy to be poorly tuned and lose the only reason you have a raid spot if all you bring is damage. It's harder to deny the usefulness of utility

Look at warriors

Dogshit damage and still get spots in every raid

[hollow escarp]

that's a tuning issue, but their philosophy is different

if they actually had pure dps classes do more damage

you will always bring them

[stoic needle]

Blizzard historically is bad at doing that ^

[silent stratus]

I saw this, but where ion mentioned it?

[stoic needle]

Look at fire mages and boomkins

Insane damage insane utility

[hollow escarp]

in the interview with Preach that ended 16 mins ago

what mage utility?

[stoic needle]

Will still have good utility and similar damage to pure dps classes with no utility even after their nerfs

[compact pumice]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1002724719?t=6380s

[odd hazel]

I mean, you dont need to take more then one of the ones that give buffs.

[onyx wind]

Idk about u guys but all i want to do is pump

[silent stratus]

@compact pumice thanks

[kind talon]

just give rogue remove armor

[compact pumice]

It’s during the raid cooldown section

[kind talon]

again

GG

[stoic needle]

Yeah but why would you trust blizzard to consistently make that happen for us when they've proven over and over and over again that they're bad at it

[onyx wind]

Pressing buttons and doing a lot of damage > putting AMZ on a rotation

[odd hazel]

take atleast one of each of the classes that give buffs and just pump your damage

[burnt star]

Give rogue wind fury aura. Gg who needs shaman

[stoic needle]

If blizzard doesn't give us utility all 3 of our specs could end up like sub next expac

[thorny pond]

Tricks gives Damage again !

Make tricks give damage again**

[onyx wind]

Bring the class not the player

[hollow escarp]

just give rogues, mages, hunters and warlocks 20% more dps than other hybrid classes and let them be the support raid utility classes

[stoic needle]

They won't though

[odd hazel]

waht

[onyx wind]

Damage matters a lot

[kind talon]

yeah which is why the player matters most?

[onyx wind]

Assuming DK's get hardnerfed on AMZ there are gonna be a lot more melee spots based on DPS

[hollow escarp]

they will still get 1 spot for sure

but

[compact pumice]

They stopped that in TBC, just made hybrids be either not taken at all or just healers

[hollow escarp]

darkness is also great

and we don't see havoc

that much

[stoic needle]

This would be great but you're delusional if you think 2021 blizzard can pull this off properly

[kind talon]

darkness is giga

[thorny pond]

Smoke bomb + magic damage amp

[kind talon]

but havoc has no immunity

[onyx wind]

We didnt see havoc cause vengeance DH was very good

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I think that was their initial philosophy that went wrong because everything was about dps in the end

[compact pumice]

It kind of still is. You bring a raid buff like monk’s or DH’s for the overall damage increase.

It’s more when it comes to a certain odd raid comps viability where it does not all become about the dps

[hollow escarp]

isn't darkness better than AMZ?

[thorny pond]

There will always be a monk and DH for that alone. Mage/Priest/Warrior

for their buffs

[onyx wind]

Warlock aswell

You dont need to have apparent buffs

[thorny pond]

So now add giga dps to what we saw with combust

Some form of passive or active utility does feel nice

Like I miss being in the raid CD ERT

[hollow escarp]

I am on the kick orders

[thorny pond]

Yea but we don't even get resources for that so I've been bumped lately from those too. Not complaining

[pliant apex]

why does my skada not register skulker wing damage on dummy?

[balmy condor]

Skada is pretty weird

[hollow escarp]

yep, doesn't even count group damage when you are outside combat

it's pretty weird

[whole mason]

Skada is light tho

[subtle kiln]

!bis

[balmy condor]

Like lightmode?

Light what

[limber swallow]

resources

in the past it was more efficient than recount... not sure it's more efficient than details

[balmy condor]

I mean any dps meter is gonna take what

50mb of ram?

In a system that most likely has 16000?

[limber swallow]

details is smaller than that these days.. it actually runs in a tiny footprint

don't disagree with you at all btw.. just saying that was always the argument people made back when systems weren't as ridiculous

[balmy condor]

People really be running trash like skada but then probably have like TSM or something hogging 400mb of ram

[kind talon]

[subtle kiln]

i have tsm, warcraft logs, undermine journal, 200 WA active on 4GB laptop. it’s fine.

[lost mist]

OH MY GOD! i'll delete my details because it don't let me use my full customized elvui gyga ultra saturated which tracks every step and ID of the mounts that i don't have and my WA that tracks how many times i try to mount in a raid boss

[hollow escarp]

you can also set details to update less often

so it won't "eat" that many resources

[limber swallow]

it doesn't really eat anything tho...

[hollow escarp]

but as Whispyr said, it's like 50 mb

[hollow escarp]

[crimson terrace]

[limber swallow]

zomg, 1200 meg of addons?

[hollow escarp]

I raid with TSM and ATT disabled though

yeah, and it's not that bad

[limber swallow]

I'm sure it's not, but that's a lot of things... I tend to keep mine at a minimum.

[hollow escarp]

I like to do that as well but I kinda play all aspects of the game, so addons add up fast

[balmy condor]

Real shit king, you get that 0.5 fps

[balmy condor]

I’m at like 450 mb, turned them all off, went from 185 fps to 187

[plain thistle]

yeah, our pc arent 2004 potatoes, you need to look more than memory usage for a fps increase

[balmy condor]

yeh

[plain thistle]

like complex auras can impact your fps a lot

[balmy condor]

I mean not really though

[plain thistle]

yeah, try using CD tracks in a raid

[balmy condor]

you'd need some actually crazy auras to have an impact

[little sparrow]

@balmy condor wtf are your settings to get that much fps

[pliant apex]

agi potion or phantom for CN raid?

ive had some conflicting info lately

[stoic needle]

Agi

[pliant apex]

ty !

[balmy condor]

I think I play on a base of 6 and then max out the view distance/foliage sliders or whatever

those 3 things

[pliant apex]

icy veins says phantom fire better for st?

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[stoic needle]

It technically can be but it's inconsistent and more rng

[little sparrow]

with potato graphics

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean depends where you're standing and stuff as well right

[little sparrow]

true 😛

[balmy condor]

I think I was standing in a fairly empty dazar'alor

[pliant apex]

you mean shadowcore oil? yea i always use that

[balmy condor]

no !oil is the command

[pliant apex]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[pliant apex]

ohhh

lol ty

[nocturne remnant]

Is assa hard for a beginner to the class?

[pliant apex]

no its very easy

other specs are hard

i play sin coz i like easy

this is one answer i can give with confidence lol

heheh

[plain thistle]

i would say outlaw is easier, but assa is definitely easy too

[nocturne remnant]

Really? i think i found the spec for me ahah, don't wanna get overwhelmed

[pliant apex]

gtfo john you troll

its the easiest chocobo, at par with BM hunter

[balmy condor]

outlaw can be easy depending on who you ask

it just doesn't click with some

[kind talon]

outlaw is just pressing buttons fast and keeping buff uptime

[plain thistle]

outlaw is just boring and infuriating some times, but super easy

[kind talon]

sin is pressing buttons slower and keeping bleed/poison uptime

[woven needle]

How does assassination feel on mythic sludge? Cds on pull then 2nd and 4th pillar?

[plain thistle]

yes

[woven needle]

Figured thank you

[plain thistle]

which people just get super wrong when there is more than 1 target

[bleak sky]

monkaS

[kind talon]

uh its not that bad in low target cleave situations

but ye ur right

[balmy condor]

make sure you hit vendetta/vanish very early on pull, like in the first 3 seconds, or else it'll get hairy lining up with the second pillar

[plain thistle]

but people who thinks assa is hard ( not sure if there is any lol ) just overcomplicate simple things

[kind talon]

i mean outlaw is the same way

u just press bladeflurry for aoe

and do normal rotation

[woven needle]

Pop and shadow step on 1 second left Roger that

[balmy condor]

[hollow escarp]

most specs are easy to get into, but can be hard to master

[woven needle]

@balmy condor guild is letting me get off monk and try rogue for sludge prog as monk ST sucks ass

[kind talon]

sin especially can be very hard to master on multitarget situations

[balmy condor]

yeh sin slams

it'll be a good time

[hollow escarp]

like outlaw is easy to get into m+ but you can do a lot of stuff to imrpove dps

[kind talon]

perfect utilization and bleed uptime for like huntsman and council makes big difference

[nocturne remnant]

@kind talon sounds Scary monkaS

[kind talon]

inerva too

but idk i find it rly fun

run around dotting up shit

pump envenoms with giga energy

gg

[plain thistle]

I have the same opinion about outlaw since legion, SS and too much combo point generation variation is just infuriating for me

with broadside = fun, without = fuck me

[kind talon]

i mean the difficulty of outlaw comes in the rotation itself

[hollow escarp]

reacting at every gcd

[kind talon]

yeah exactly

sin is like

you dont react as much but

you plan ahead a lot more

[hollow escarp]

if we talk about raid I agree

[kind talon]

you have to know where your character needs to be to refresh dots etc

[hollow escarp]

but in M+, a new sin player will do worse than a new outlaw player

[kind talon]

and not waste your movement

oh im not advocating for either spec kojack

[hollow escarp]

because there is so much you need to do well do do damage in m+ as sin, while as law you press bf

I get your point

[kind talon]

just kinda elaborating on the complexities of the specs ye

[nocturne remnant]

Guys i'm starting to think i should not play rogue lol

Seems mega fun but don't wanna be overwhelmed

[kind talon]

i mean every spec has its intricacies and optimizations

[hollow escarp]

take one step at a time

[kind talon]

start small and take steps bro

😄

[north cobalt]

ok so ive really got my ST opener down, but is there a proper aoe opener for M+?

Subt i put out 3 empowered + 1 regular garrote then crimson tempest then i'll start throwing bone spears out and dumping combo points into rupture on prio targets. That sound about right?

[kind talon]

at the end of the day there's not really a massive difference between every spec and class, and if you get good at and understand a lot of different basic mechanics you can do well or excel as everything

[nocturne remnant]

I played Fire Mage, WW Monk, Unholy DK, Fury War and all Hunters spec so far

[kind talon]

udk you have to deal with dots and pandemic timers or no?

[nocturne remnant]

was trying to get back into WoW and thought maybe trying something new would be refreshing

[kind talon]

i havent played the spec but i assume u have to refresh dots?

[nocturne remnant]

Udk was hard to learn at the start but became easy to play after a while

yeah

Sin Aoe is what seems the hardest

[balmy condor]

I would agree with start small

[kind talon]

start with the single target rotation then

dont exert yourself

[balmy condor]

sin aoe can be pretty hectic

it turns into a flow

[kind talon]

hey, as long as you have a crimson tempest ticking in aoe, you'll never be healing the mobs

[nocturne remnant]

Classes i played the most are fire mage and WW monk so i kinda like having a rhytm in the rotation, dunno if i explained it terribly

[kind talon]

nah it makes perfect sense

combustion rota is always the same

[hollow escarp]

I started to respect outlaw m+ gameplay after I noticed I can't do as much damage as I do on sin in keys

[nocturne remnant]

@kind talon that's what i like, when i know my rotation is that and i have to just know when to do it

[kind talon]

sin isnt that bad for that purpose then

us just garrote 1 2 3

4

ct ruptures and fok

ez

tab targetting is your best friend

[whole mason]

It was one of details belief that bigger but better meter is better.

And skada was the one details try to compare itself to.

[balmy condor]

well

I would want to compare myself to the worst alternative as well

[pliant apex]

should i just use skulkers wing on pull from stealth before casting anything?

whats the opener with skulkers?

i knwo gota use it on cd but opener im confused

[whole mason]

I'm not sure why, but skada was kinda popular or at least for a long period in Asian server.

[balmy condor]

just whenever

it isn't buffed by anything

so on pull, 5 seconds after, after vendetta

all fine

as long as you don't miss a cast

[balmy condor]

yeah not sure, it's super inaccurate though

[pliant apex]

ty

[whole mason]

For details, my raid member mentioned once he needs to reconfigure it for Sire so that everything went smoothly for the first wave of adds.

[balmy condor]

[whole mason]

For me, it isn't a problem. So my money is on details is innocent.

[stoic needle]

Sin aoe is really just tab targeting and applying dots

And then reapplying to anything that lives long enough

Literally just spam tab + gar + rupture + fok/sbs

[kind talon]

crimston tempest!?

how could u forget osh

smh my head

[proper halo]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hollow river]

tab targetting with SBS = bad time

[torn atlas]

To be honest I find it worse with a mouse over macro. Mostly because I've unintentionally sniped unwanted packs with it.

[hollow river]

i've done the same, with tab target xD

[torn atlas]

Oh yeah that's not ideal either haha.

[stoic needle]

Idk tab targeting with sbs is fine

Tab target prioritizes enemies you haven't targeted yet

[amber mountain]

Yeah, i'm a click to target player who's been having to learn tab targeting for opening with garrotte as a 'sin rogue

[dull cloak]

in legion you used to have to make a mouseover rupture if you used eye of command trinket in order to not lose crit stacks

[compact pumice]

You don't wanna open with it. It might break you out of stealth when you don't want it to. But you can use it on first GCD if you want.

Just make sure you have Tricks up then otherwise it's a surefire way to get aggro problems

[uneven plume]

Tab targeting for sbs is easier for sin since you don’t have BtE target to get back to

Sbs mouse over is more convenient for outlaw imo

[kind talon]

agree

henny T with based and redpilled take

[uneven plume]

[kind talon]

[frail fossil]

assa bad

[stoic needle]

Enjoy the bench next tier stinky pirates

[frail fossil]

i'm playing assa next tier

[plain thistle]

there is a pepe emote for every situation, jesus

[uneven plume]

“Fury warriors with a pistol”

[stoic needle]

[raven burrow]

Hey there, how good is the Quantum Device trinket? Do you sync it with vendetta, or hold it on cooldown?

[plain thistle]

oh, that one isnt from revenholdt

[kind talon]

yes

its bis if crit is your highest stat, you do sync it with vendetta during lust

[stoic needle]

U don't see me in the outlaw channel talking about how I hate outlaw so don't come in here acting a fool

[kind talon]

[stoic needle]

Yes generally you sync it with vendetta unless it's a very long fight

[uneven plume]

[frail fossil]

i posted one message for fun most of my messages in assa are serious

[stoic needle]

[uneven plume]

[raven burrow]

great, and in dungeons?

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna shiv you if you keep talkin trash

[stoic needle]

In dungeons just use it on cd

[frail fossil]

why are u threatening me with good time

[stoic needle]

its my duty, no one trash talks sin on my watch

[uneven plume]

How do you open on m huntsman running fuge and CT

As necro

Doing a reclear of mythic tonight

[stoic needle]

fuge?

[uneven plume]

Subterfuge

[stoic needle]

lmao i have literally never heard it called that

but ok

[uneven plume]

I’m guessing those are the best talents to run for high end parce

Majority*

[stoic needle]

i've seen MA sim pretty close to subterfuge for 2 target cleave

but subt works fine

it's gar > gar > snd > sbs > sbs > rup1(huntsman) > mut to 4/5 > rup2(dog) > vendetta + shiv > envenom spam

wait until the garrotes are in pandemic, vanish and reapply

[uneven plume]

Where does Ct come in?

[stoic needle]

oh whoops

after the first 2 ruptures

[uneven plume]

Kk ty

[stoic needle]

you could probably do it after the first one if you wanted i don't think it matters that much

[uneven plume]

So build combo points with mutilate to get a 5/6 CT?

[stoic needle]

yeah

[uneven plume]

Alright

[stoic needle]

you want to save your SBS charges for gemstones

[uneven plume]

Kk

[gloomy knoll]

can't they also be used in shiv

or is it just gemmies @balmy condor

[stoic needle]

The apl says only during gems

but I think if you're running emeni you'd use during shiv

[gloomy knoll]

interesting

[stoic needle]

i think at first it was during shiv

[cerulean nest]

everything in my vault had mastery :))))))

[gloomy knoll]

yea that's how i was playing it back when i was necro

[stoic needle]

and when the gemstones thing was found out then it changed to only be gems

[stoic needle]

why are you rejecting your blessings?!?!?!

[gloomy knoll]

makes sense crits op and the shiv thing is only really beneficial if it lets you get an extra envenom in the window

[stoic needle]

it usually does for me

but then again I haven't played with deeper since swapping to necro

[gloomy knoll]

what do you do on ST bosses

[stoic needle]

well i haven't been reclearing

[gloomy knoll]

ahhhh gotcha

[stoic needle]

so i've been doing ep/vigor on sludge and SLG

[gloomy knoll]

vigor gang

[stoic needle]

and even then, ep/vigor is only 10 dps less for me

[gloomy knoll]

yea it's not much of a diff st

i think it's like 30-40 for me

[stoic needle]

i like ep a lot

but i also kinda like blindside

for the execute

i honestly have no clue what to run talents and soulbind wise for slg

i've been running emeni ep/vig

i get a decent amount of resets and pretty good uptime on gnashing chompers

[balmy condor]

You can sbs in shiv if you’d like, we’re talking very small differences

[gloomy knoll]

ty whispyr sensei

[balmy condor]

Sbs is just a low cost generator

Can apply that to whatever you need

[gloomy knoll]

for slg i'd 100% run EP

[balmy condor]

Sun king shield? Save sbs for it
Slg shield? Sure
Sludge pillar? Definitely
Adds spawning soon? Sure

[loud niche]

whispyr, any new TC news from the beta?

[balmy condor]

Not for sin

[loud niche]

tell me we're NF again plz

[balmy condor]

Lul no

[indigo mulch]

We're never going to be NF again.

😐

[loud niche]

:C

[balmy condor]

Sub is looking good

Obedience to the moon

[loud niche]

i miss my blink

sub? 🤢

[indigo mulch]

I dunno, the sub changes looks good but is it good enough to beat sin? 😮

Don't think so atleast. D:

[loud niche]

i just wanna play sin and top meters like a baws.

[balmy condor]

I got the sub profile within 20 dps of sin

So

Seems good

[indigo mulch]

Oh my

But

Cleave?

[stoic needle]

[low girder]

more?

[stoic needle]

20 dps

[loud niche]

not more, NotLikeThis

[low girder]

nah it wasn't that close before

[balmy condor]

The obedience optimization is 7.3

[low girder]

means he did more stuff

oh shit