assassination

[solar hare]

Oh you edited it

[stoic needle]

[compact pumice]

M+ leggos are actually Zoldyck or MA (with a specific build). For raids it’s Doomblade.

Low key just means that trash dies quickly. Since we are a ramp aoe class as Sin we need them to live a decent bit to make use of Zoldyck compared to something like MA or swapping specs. A “low key” could be a high key for your group’s item level and it would be exactly the same as someone with insane gear doing an actual very high key.

It’s more that outgearing the content makes Zoldyck scale a bit less compared to the opposite.

[winter vapor]

thats a nice way of putting it cheers @compact pumice , im pushing 13/14 on my druid tank, would happily do 10/11's on my rogue but I'm sure we all know the pain of 30+ 'declines'

[stoic needle]

At this point in the patch there's no reason not to run your own group especially at that level. You'll get people farming valor who will obliterate your key in like 20 minutes

[compact pumice]

I’d recommend climbing in IO by starting your own keys and being very picky in who you pick (wait enough time and you can be a bit picky). Getting into groups with higher IO is a lot easier no matter what gear

[winter vapor]

I will take that into considertaion, cheers!

I have a group mostly, just I'm our most experienced/active tank so I don't get to do my rogue outside of PuG's really :p

[storm hedge]

Can someone explain to me why "Vanish, mutilate, envenom, mutilate" sims better than "Vanish,envenom,mutilate,envenom" with MA talent? Even in a 1 minute sim? Doesn't really make sense to me. Should I start doing it as well?

[limber lion]

With the Deeper Stratagem talent you always build to 5-6 cp. With Vigor you would Env - Muti - Env if you get to 4 combo points with the Mutilate.

[storm hedge]

And if not I do Env Mut Mut?

[compact pumice]

Doing Env Mut Mut or Mut Mut Env or Mut Env Mut has the same result during MA

[fallen veldt]

hello I wanted to know but the assassination thief as it is put in the mythical plus?

[storm hedge]

Mut during MA has a higher chance (~60%) to give you 4 cps. So imo Env mut into either env or mut is better then other options. But sims still keep getting me thinking that I'm wrong

[distant cypress]

Thief

[storm hedge]

Google translate at it's finest

[chrome sedge]

Guys, is it worth putting rupture and garrote on slg on the boss in intermission when it doesnt take damage, just to get more energy regen?

[hollow escarp]

yes to keep alacrity stacks

[storm hedge]

While at it is it worth it to put dots on other bosses on Council?

[chrome sedge]

^ this as well

[hollow escarp]

garrote and rupture

on one extra boss

for more energy regen

[chrome sedge]

i see, so mantain on 2 bosses

cool, thanks !

[fallen veldt]

assassination is good on mitic plus or is bad?

[hollow escarp]

it's not meta

but it's fine

[fallen veldt]

😦

[storm hedge]

It's as good as anything up to +15

[hollow escarp]

I mean

[distant cypress]

Says it's fine - sad reaction

[hollow escarp]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-rankings/season-sl-1/world/rogue/assassination

it's good up to 23

apparently

even 24 🙂

[distant cypress]

Only 24 :(

XD

[hollow escarp]

yeah, dead spec 😦

[chrome sedge]

yeah man suck you cant do 27 as assa:/

[distant cypress]

Not even +30, not gonna make it

Just delete the spec

[fallen veldt]

lol my goal is +15 XD

[storm hedge]

If 15 is your goal just play what's fun to you

[chrome sedge]

^

[white kettle]

24 key on tyrannical was not bad

Ish

Felt useless in aoe buuuut whatever.

[hollow escarp]

wait Ryfie timed 24 mists

with assa

nvm, multiple 24 lol

I just noticed the deplete 25 HoA

oof

[iron orchid]

That's sad

[distant cypress]

Oooooof

[storm hedge]

FeelsSadMan

[compact pumice]

Yeah but with DS you would still Mut twice in a row even if the first Mut gave you 4 CP, which is what we're discussing. If you run Vigor then you would Env > Mut > Env most of the time. With MFD I'd say you would Env>MFD Env > Mut

[storm hedge]

Exactly what I'm thinking. But when i tried to sim that it was about 30 dps lower if I build cps before Vanish with Vigor.

[stoic needle]

How did you try to sim that? Because it's not a 30 dps loss

It's basically the same dps with vigor to env mut env vs mut env mut

[storm hedge]

Can i put raidbots link here?

[compact pumice]

Unless you mean delaying Vanish and missing a cast then I don't think that's correct.

[storm hedge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qctjCmwA3wcgY1aCym6bqC this should be my edited sim. In raw input only very last line edited for cp buildup

And this should be unedited. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tZ1ASGiKPYwfU9X5XmwTtv

[placid dawn]

If he was outlaw they would have timed it 🤔

jk jk

[hollow escarp]

well, in keys like that you will always say "what if"

[stoic needle]

Well first of all you don't do 1 minute sims

[hollow escarp]

because 1 less death meant they timed it probably

[stoic needle]

For something like this you should be doing a 5 min sim

[storm hedge]

It's one minute on purpose. For only single use of vanish.

[stoic needle]

That's probably why it's a dps loss, because it's making you hold vanish

[storm hedge]

Similar results with 1,5 and 2 mins though the difference shrinked to 20dps

[stoic needle]

Do a 5 min

Also you don't need to copy the entire apl for the advanced sim

[storm hedge]

This I don't get. With a single use it doesnt really matter when you use it if it's during Vendeta and shiv

[stoic needle]

It makes it hard to see what you're actually changing

You only need to include your gear, character information, and the single line you change

Everything else will be filled in naturally

[compact pumice]

HMm

Looking at it it might be that the last envenom is not shivved

So it lost dps

[stoic needle]

Well your 1min sim isn't actually 1 min because the sim has variance

[storm hedge]

Oh that might be it

[white kettle]

Feels fucking bad. That's a good run though.

[storm hedge]

Gonna try to change the shiv behaviour.

@stoic needle my point is I'm trying to sim a single usage of Vanish.

[stoic needle]

Do it as a 5min sim

But you don't sim a single use of vanish

[compact pumice]

The way it did it there it meant that two of the envenoms needed 2x mutis to build, meanwhile the other sim had only one envenom that needed two mutis

So that pushed the one envenom out of Shiv

[stoic needle]

That would be a loss over a 1 min sim, but not over a 5min one

Which is why you don't do 1 min sims

[compact pumice]

I mean either way, doing this sim does not really mean you should change your behaviour. You would still use Vanish during shiv and if it turns out that you use two mutis or two envenoms during MA the dps is the same.

[heavy trail]

Man blizzard customer support and forum moderation is the absolute worst lol. Dumb and obviously undercared about...lol

[compact pumice]

Yeah they really removed like 90% of their customer support

Compared to from the inception of World of Warcraft

[storm hedge]

Well it is still a 15dps difference in 5 minute

[heavy trail]

@compact pumice It's insane on what goes on in those forums. I'd report them to say wowhead so they could do a story on not just me, but other folks, but I have a strong feeling no one would care lol...

[compact pumice]

Well that might mean that the rule you created to wait is not beneficial OR that doing two Mutilates is actually slightly better then doing two Envenoms during Shiv for you. But it's small enough to not matter one way or the other.

[undone eagle]

wait what... does anyone know why orgrimmar tabard is required lvl 60 now? wtf 😂

[compact pumice]

The people who cared enough about being pissed off at bad customer support have probably left already

[heavy trail]

Like they have some guys who might even be mods creating troll threads and if you respond to them negatively or try to do what the forum is mean to do, discuss, even if you are polite, you can get randomly silenced for "harassing" the troll lol. But since they don't look at context or even really investigate things they can use their "vague" guidelines to do whatever. It makes it kind of tough to even have an engaging interaction at all.

@compact pumice No doubt lol

For me the issue is it's like they could care less about folks who paid their company for so many years... but I guess shouldn't be too surprised how individual customers are not considered a big deal at this point...

[stoic needle]

They don't care about anything as long as the business makes a profit at the end of the year

Customer satisfaction? Fuck it

As long as they're in the green nothing will change

[compact pumice]

A friend got banned a week ago due to being hacked, and the response times are so slow that when the hacker initiated a delete of the account it started a 7 day wait, before even getting a response after providing ownership details to reclaim the account and stop the deletion the account already went through the 7 day wait and is deleted currently. He is hoping to get it back still, waiting for response but if the 15 year old account is gone forever then they would have lost a very long lived customer because who could be arsed to start a new account from scratch at that point.

[heavy trail]

Yeah perfect example.. unfortunately

[stoic needle]

Holy shit

[compact pumice]

Activision really made Blizzard feel like a company rather than a game developer.

[heavy trail]

Then you go and make a thread on the customer service forum and the white knight trust level monkey's will turn your emotions into being triggered even more as they berate and cuddle blizzard's "they don't make mistakes", "they look at all appeals" fairly into a forum silence or ban lol

Sorry offtopic.. but had to vent a bit since I don't feel valued as a customer...

[storm hedge]

True. I was always holding shiv and Vanish to build cps for a possible double envenom. Since this shows it's not beneficial i won't anymore. Btw I modified the sim so the shiv will be cast before Vanish if Vanish is ready and behave normally otherwise. Resulted in another 10 dps loss so. So either I made the sim even worse or double envenom is not that important.

[hollow escarp]

bad take

things like that never changed

it's just that some things are more current

and we forget bad things that happened in the past

the same is how wowhead praised ghostcrawler while the community hated him back then

it will be the same with ion if he goes away in 5-7 years

[stoic needle]

It's that double envenom isn't that important, yes

Holding shiv and vanish will always be a loss over time because you lose potential casts

Unless it's holding shiv for a few seconds for vendetta

[compact pumice]

I remember getting almost a month of free game time at the first year of vanilla due to server instability and problems to log in (which to be honest were not as bad as classic launch ). I stand by my statement and explaining that they have definitely settled into a position of seeming too big/important to fail to care about customer satisfaction.

[hollow escarp]

you can't make everybody happy 🙂

[compact pumice]

Especially if you don’t try

[hollow escarp]

I guess I'm gonna stop here

the subject is not that binary

[grave dock]

just know that "blizzard doesn't care about customers, they only care about money" is the sort of bland and vague anti-corporate sentiment that has been repeated by players since this game launched in 2004

[pallid bough]

#off-topic

[grave dock]

people have a bad experience, extrapolate it out and assume it applies to the millions of other people playing the game, same as it ever was

[stoic needle]

But it's true

[hollow escarp]

that's why I decided to stop

[stoic needle]

They won't care until they start losing money because of their actions

[grave dock]

yea, it's off topic so whatever, but it's also a boring argument because that's an unfalsifiable assertion, so nobody is ever going to be persuaded

[hollow escarp]

last year I got restored game time because I had 3 months left and stopped playing, but customer support was kind enough to do it, and that's more on the person working there not on the company

it's all based on personal experiences

[heavy trail]

It's all form based data input nonsense instead of real people interactions in most cases, no matter what they say....

[compact pumice]

Yeah sorry, it turned into a whole discussion!

[strange python]

If ur necro whats the ST logic like for sin?

Swapped for now since we don't raid again til tues to build up renown and possibly use with OL on slg....but if i were to spec sin for other things im guessing muti is still best?

[balmy condor]

Sbs first global for the dot, then use it during shiv or gemstone

[strange python]

I gotcha...thanks

[balmy condor]

Np

[strange python]

Does the sbs dot count towards doomblade or nah? Sorry if these questions been asked a million times already

[balmy condor]

yes

it does

[strange python]

Cool

[keen tree]

I just want to confirm I got this right. You don’t crimson tempest single target during execute phase even if you are using zoldyck right?

[stoic needle]

Yes

You do ct

[balmy condor]

you do

outside of shiv

[keen tree]

Oof ok so not during shiv window but otherwise you go. Cool 🙂

[balmy condor]

yep just maintain it like usual

[copper sun]

Where can i find bis single target opener for venthyr rogue

[limber lion]

!guide

[stoic needle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

Damn you cev

[hollow escarp]

!gudie

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

!scaling

!bis

!mastery

[hollow escarp]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[hollow escarp]

[copper sun]

flagellation before or after vendetta?

[stoic needle]

After

Vend flag rupture

[balmy condor]

wouldn't that be before

oh wait

before rup

[tired citrus]

Is it me or the flaggelation leggo feels okay?

[hollow escarp]

it looks okay

but we need to wait and see numbers

[copper sun]

Why rupture during vendetta? isnt that wasting vendetta?

[balmy condor]

numbers atm are worse than doomblade

[tired citrus]

in about 2.30 dummy fight 4 flag casts

[balmy condor]

those 2 seconds don't matter

[balmy condor]

well it's bugged on ptr to always reduce the cooldown, instead of during flag

[hollow escarp]

ohh, we have numbers

[balmy condor]

so the cdr is actually huge

[tired citrus]

oh

[balmy condor]

secret preliminary numbers, yes

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

it's roughly ttb levels of power if you go by pins

[hollow escarp]

well, if things don't change, I guess necro is the way

[copper sun]

if youre trying to min max surely every second matters

[balmy condor]

it really doesn't

[tired citrus]

ye the cooldown reduces even if its not active

[hollow escarp]

vendetta is a long CD

a thing I do a lot, and I think it's a mistake, I refresh rupture as Vendetta is about to fall off

instead of envenom

and refresh later in pandemic

[balmy condor]

the problem is that vend flag rup, flag rup vend, flag vend rup, rup flag vend, are all within margin of error on the sim

changing 2 gcds on the length of a boss fight

is actually irrelevant

[stoic needle]

2 seconds out of a 5 minute encounter actually don't matter at all as long as the uptime if your dots is near 100%

[cerulean nest]

would sin or sub be more useful on council prog?

[balmy condor]

considering neither really does shield damage, bring whatever you want and pump boss

[cerulean nest]

fosho

[copper sun]

Does rupture get buffed by vendetta?

[balmy condor]

yes

all of the rogues abilities are buffed for the duration of vendetta

once vendetta ends, they all go back to normal

[copper sun]

does that include flag?

[balmy condor]

yes

[copper sun]

I see

cheers!

[keen tree]

Quick clarification about keeping CT up on single target - is that only during execute phase and only if you are using Zoldyck or is that for the whole fight and regardless of legendary?

[balmy condor]

whole fight regardless of legendary, as long as your envenoms are not empowered by shiv/sludge pillars

[thorny pond]

Council.... Zold or Doom? Have been tanking it but finally get to bring the rogue

[balmy condor]

doom

[copper sun]

if i have rupture up on a target and i pop vendetta then does it still get buffed? or do i have to cast it inside vendetta for the buff to apply?

[thorny pond]

[thorny pond]

Yes, no snapshot exists, all dynamic

[copper sun]

whats snapshot?

ahhh nvm i got it

[thorny pond]

Right it dynamically updates depending on vendetta up or not. Whereas a snapshot would see if vendetta was up then apply the extra damage even after vend ends. Now it's just a vendetta

[lament canopy]

Hi all! I just started leveling my Rogue. She’s at lvl 24 now but I’m wondering what a good rotation would be as I seem to have moments where she’s starved to use any of her tools (has: mutilate, envenom, garrote, slice n dice, vanish, evade). I usually start with a sap then an ambush. Would it be better to sap the cheap shot?

[thorny pond]

No need for sap

[balmy condor]

assassination early on in leveling is super super painful, it's a slow, starved spec at endgame, and leveling makes that even worse

you're just in for pain sadly

but yeah, no need for sap

[thorny pond]

Honestly leveling outlaw is probably the smoothest experience for rogues

[lament canopy]

Kk so just mutilate til I get entertained then rupture or envenom?

[winter vapor]

sounds legit

[balmy condor]

dots first

[lament canopy]

Oh?

[balmy condor]

gar/rup/snd

then the envenom

[winter vapor]

why on earth cut to the chase is at level 57....

[lament canopy]

Kk thanks I’ll give those a shot whispyr

[balmy condor]

wait do you even have venomous wounds at 24?

[stoic needle]

No

[balmy condor]

oh my god

[stoic needle]

I think it's 48?

[balmy condor]

throw the whole fucking spec in the dumpster

wtf

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's fucked

[thorny pond]

Gonna screenshot that and spread it out of context

get everyone back on sub

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

and people do Herald of the Titans with Blindside, MA and Vigor

I wanted to make a Herald char but I doubt it will be a rogue

[steel geyser]

Yea gotta go outlaw or sub for leveling

[copper sun]

should i always use quantum device with vendetta or should i use it on cooldown?

[balmy condor]

with vend

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it makes no fucking sense you’re just energy starved forever while leveling assa

[hollow escarp]

that's why

[gusty mirage]

Jesus it’s €60 for you guys? Y’all getting fleeced

[hollow escarp]

imagine buying that

I only use the "free" one I get when buying an expansion

[gusty mirage]

$72 for a boost

[hollow escarp]

well, we look at it from a different perspective

it's 1 mil gold

[vestal wren]

60 is brutal

[thorny pond]

It's to 50 too, not even level 60

[hollow escarp]

yeah, when they announce new expac, the boost jumps to 60

[solar hare]

Wait

Its 60 EUROS

But also 60 USD

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

hey, round it up

[solar hare]

Does blizzard not know how currency works

[hollow escarp]

looks better

[gusty mirage]

Boost worth more than the legendary edition expac

[stoic needle]

Europeans in shambles

[icy ember]

i bought one for a DK before i realized i hate pets for XMAS

the boost

[hollow escarp]

it's cheaper to buy a new account, yeah

or copy of SL

[gusty mirage]

They normalized the price across regions

So it’s 60 of your currency depending on your country

[plain onyx]

Any cool looking daggers I can buy from AH that looks like a katana or something?

[hollow escarp]

daggers like katana

[plain onyx]

look like* 😂

[hollow escarp]

for outlaw it's easy

[gusty mirage]

Try #transmog those guys can find anything

[solar hare]

Thats so whack

[icy ember]

so is the new venthyr leggo the way to go on the PTR?

[halcyon zealot]

afaik its giga bugged

[balmy condor]

on ptr it is for sure the way to go

if it goes live the way we think it will, probably not

[vocal edge]

On council do you dot up all bosses for energy or is it a net dps loss?

[balmy condor]

up to 5 bleeds

[north basin]

where from these 5 bleeds number came from?

[vocal edge]

5 bleeds total, or 5 bleeds not on primary target?

[balmy condor]

5 bleeds total

[balmy condor]

not sure what the question is

[vocal edge]

I think they're asking why it's exactly 5 and not 6 or some other amount of active bleeds

[balmy condor]

because 5 is the number that gives the highest priority damage

anything more is a waste of cp/energy, anything less is a loss

[stoic needle]

huh i didn't realize that more than that was a loss

ok whyspr please enlighten me under what circumstances we're supposed to envenom in aoe

i'm talking 5+ targets not 2-3 target cleave

[north basin]

i didnt see that number before. is it new theorycrafting development ?

5 bleeds = highest priority

[stoic needle]

no it's been around for a while

[north basin]

k

so its garrote + rupture on main target garrote+ rupture on near main target and 1 garote on third target?

in simple words

[stoic needle]

yes

in the context of council it's not really worth the risk and lost uptime to go for the last garotte imo

unless you can toss it on an add or something

[north basin]

and crimson tempest counts as third bleed too ye?

if we talented

[stoic needle]

no

crimson tempest doesn't work with venomous wounds

[north basin]

ok

[grave dock]

5 bleeds is the number on targets that you actually want to damage though, right?

council is obviously a bit different

[stoic needle]

in this situation we're talking about priority damage for one target

[north basin]

and on single target we use crimson tempest? m+ wise.

[stoic needle]

so it doesn't really matter whether the other bleeds go

[grave dock]

IIRC cev has said in the past DOT one other boss on council, but not both

[stoic needle]

yes you CT on ST as long as shiv isn't up

yeah but we simmed it and it's worth it to do 2

the knowledge has evolved

[grave dock]

it's a strange niche situation

[stoic needle]

i don't think its particularly niche, doing priority damage is important

[balmy condor]

on 10 target sustain for example, you would envenom to maintain snd, or on vend+shiv

[stoic needle]

expect it to be at least somewhat relevant in the fights to come in later tiers

[north basin]

and when shiv is up we dont CT? on m+ bosses?

[grave dock]

well not priority damage

[stoic needle]

yep

[grave dock]

but "you can dot these things but the damage is literally irrelevant" is fairly niche

[north basin]

aight

[grave dock]

for melee in particular

[stoic needle]

ah yes i agree

i hope they never do that mechanic again tbh

[stoic needle]

okay, that makes a lot of sense. i'd just been tossing out 2-3cp SNDs to maintain but I can definitely see that using an envenom there would be better

[balmy condor]

yeah you never want to hard-cast snd outside of the first cast

it's always better to refresh with envenom

[north basin]

btw how do we play with shiv when we aproach 5--8 mob pack in m+? j

[balmy condor]

you just toss it out

[stoic needle]

just toss it on something important and continue spreading bleeds

[balmy condor]

don't have to envenom on it

[north basin]

even if i dont envenom that target

k

doing around 6-6.5k dps on random 15-17 keys. overall. looking something to improve.

[stoic needle]

that's pretty solid

that's about what i do lol

[north basin]

but probably wont see drastical change

some classes still better,

xD

[stoic needle]

true

but we do more damage on prides and bosses than most of those specs

[north basin]

yep. i just vendeta on prides,

[oblique jackal]

!stat

stat weight for m+ is crit mastery?

[balmy condor]

crit haste/mastery

[oblique jackal]

Sick! ty

[wide stone]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[stoic needle]

i think it's best to get an equalish balance of haste and mastery for M+

for now at least

[north basin]

the issue with m+ is what i dont know when target will die, so when to renew garrote+ rupture?

[balmy condor]

you get a feel for it with practice

[north basin]

but whats the number

i mean seconds

when casting is worth

[stoic needle]

once we have access to more secondary stat budget in general i think you could make a case for having gear sets heavier weighted in a certain stat for certain dungeons but not atm

[north basin]

like 1 mob live for 5 sec. do i renew garrote?

if 6 sec

etc

[grave dock]

to clarify: when you say 5 is the number that gives the highest priority damage, do you mean you only go to 5 because beyond that you lose too much damage on the primary target? or do you mean going beyond 5 is just a net DPS loss, period

[balmy condor]

you refresh rupture if it lives for 5+, 13+ with dashing, 10+ with doomblade, garrote if it lives for 5+

but really

[north basin]

i think its net dps loss when other targets dont need to die or refill their hp like council)

[balmy condor]

that shit don't matter

like we're min-maxing just for the sake of min-maxing at this point

[grave dock]

to me "priority damage" means doing as much total AOE damage is not as important, you're thinking about funneling damage into one target

[balmy condor]

don't go counting seconds

[balmy condor]

beyond that, you're not maximizing priority dps

[north basin]

cant help myself not thinking about minmaxing for sake of minmaxing (

[stoic needle]

why does the number change with each legendary?

[grave dock]

ok, but you could be doing more total DPS, yes?

[balmy condor]

of course

[grave dock]

ok

that's what I meant, and what I figured

[balmy condor]

because they make envenom stronger?

[grave dock]

since rupture is still presumably a lot more efficient per CP than envenom

(as long as the targets live)

[stoic needle]

gotcha. i just wasn't thinking about it as a comparison between using another finisher

i just thought it would be a static number

[north basin]

when 6 mobs in pack have 30% of their hp and garrote and rupture falling off, and they probably will die withing 5-6 seconds, many times i encounter this. and dont know maximum dps strategy ))

probably just fok+ ct )

[lavish pulsar]

Confirming, for Prog M Sire, Zoldyck's is best once we start hitting P3 reliably?

[balmy condor]

yes

[north basin]

sadly in real fights i cant see this thesis proves itself (

probably coz low number of zoldyk logs in top logs

filtered like 5 zoldyk p3 sir logs., maximum i found 6200 boss dps. and top doomblade p3 logs are 6700 something dps

[ruby birch]

They're talking about progress

[gusty mirage]

[north basin]

if its doing less on kills. it will be more on progress?

[balmy condor]

apparently execute legendary > not an execute legendary, during execute

is a thesis

and not a well established fact of reality

today I learned

[gusty mirage]

Seeing as all the prog on denathrius is phase 3 where he’s in execute range.... yes?

[north basin]

nope

[gusty mirage]

Oh okay

[north basin]

xD

just rough log analyzing . kills only

but people always bring p3 regarding sire

maybe ...just maybe zoldyk not tuned that good for execute compared to other legs, or sire p3 not standstill patchwerk style., i only see log results.

[kind talon]

ok so zoldyck does more damage in execute phase than doomblade

thats all you need to know

the reason why logs are swayed towards doomblade in p3

is because guilds that are on farm with faster kill times etc

will take top parsing leggos, and do more dps overall due to a number of factors

like, the top logs on sire take EP over Blindside

that does NOT mean that you should

[north basin]

well iam always trying to do reality check.

[ruby birch]

You're doing a log check

Not a reality check

[kind talon]

[north basin]

log= reality

sorry to break it for u

xD

[ruby birch]

Thanks for enlightening me

Time to ask for 9 PIs

To progress

[polar cape]

Could be the wrong reality tough

[kind talon]

so are you going to take EP ?

[north basin]

i took only logs without PI.

to examine

[warm parcel]

Doesnt matter

[kind talon]

so are you going to use EP?

for sire prog?

[warm parcel]

Fact is shackles provide you with more dps in the p3 than doomblade

You looking at logs only means theres player skill diff there

Or some other factors

[kind talon]

^^^^

[warm parcel]

Purely executing sire, shackles wins

And so would BS for obvious reasons(vs ep)

Folks who are raiding to parse are going to use doomblade over shackle. Same folks are also likely better players. Or have better kill times

So logs are always skewed towards showing greater differences between meta/nonmeta

[north basin]

and suddenly we have some simcraft update like &sorry guys we didnt take into consideration something and now this leg better than other by 150dps& . saw it alot xD

[warm parcel]

Sure

[ruby birch]

[warm parcel]

Go right ahead and show us

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck also does more damage during movement which you will be doing a lot of during progress because you're focused on mechanics

[kind talon]

how do i filter by p3 dps

for top 100 logs

[warm parcel]

you gotta open each log individually

afaik

[north basin]

iam just trying to strenghten my reality check remark

xD

[warm parcel]

xd indeed

[kind talon]

how do i pin p3

or is there an execute pin

[stoic needle]

There's a phase selector at the top

[kind talon]

or 30% health pin

got it

ty

[warm parcel]

you can just pick p3 ye

[kind talon]

guys omg

[warm parcel]

so it autofilters after sire finishes casting phase swap

[kind talon]

the log with EP did less p3 damage than the log with blindside

WHAT

thats crazy!

[stoic needle]

[warm parcel]

like doom for me is 7.6% over no lego

shackles are stronger than that if I only care of exe

[kind talon]

shackles is zoldyck?

[warm parcel]

yea it was called shackles in legion

old habit

[kind talon]

ah ye

[stoic needle]

Doomblade is 3-4% more dps than zoldyck out of execute, zoldyck is 3.5% more dps than doomblade during execute

[kind talon]

bruh i cant believe

top log with zoldyck

went EP

LFMAO

[stoic needle]

It's almost as if

[stoic needle]

The top log

Isn't the best strategy for progress?

[kind talon]

[spice spire]

No, no, no. That can’t be it

[kind talon]

[spice spire]

Everyone else is wrong

[kind talon]

ok im pretty sure

ttb is bis for sire

[warm parcel]

And execute lego would give me 11,16% more dps in execute

[stoic needle]

It is the sims that are wrong

[kind talon]

because you get a lot of shivs

think about it

[stoic needle]

Obviously

[warm parcel]

When I just take my nonlego profile and slap the 30% on the skills it affects

[spice spire]

True!

[kind talon]

wait guys! top log #45 used master assassin!

[north basin]

but these people still not listening and bring doomblade on sire!

[kind talon]

does that mean i can do as much damage as him using MA legendary!?

[kind talon]

they dont need zoldyck

is the point

because they are not PROGGING

[spice spire]

That’s exactly what it means

[hollow barn]

People logging #1 on wcl are not progging the fight dude

[north basin]

and on prog they used zoldyk but after prog they started using doomblade

got it!

[slow marsh]

Why is assas channel filled with not fun conversations the last few days

[warm parcel]

yall just circlejerking at this point

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pbSWqKstEfL6Q86dCi21rc

[balmy condor]

this is the dumbest fucking shit I have ever come back to in my life

holy

[warm parcel]

now that youre back

ima head out

cya

[spice spire]

LMAO

[balmy condor]

don't leave me with this shit

[north basin]

xD

[warm parcel]

nier finished dling

time to play

[kind talon]

gg

[spice spire]

I can tell that we’re still in April fool’s shaman land. Because whispyr is the bottom of the totem pole.

That joke had 0 pay off

[kind talon]

gz

[nimble tartan]

guys if its the top log then thats the top dam idk what the discussion is top dam = most dam for fight...

[balmy condor]

fucking imagine if we used the same logic in 8.3

[spice spire]

That’s the forbidden patch

[balmy condor]

holy shit all the top logs are infinite stars

go go go

[kind talon]

[balmy condor]

reality is what I make it losers see ya

[kind talon]

👋

[warm parcel]

better?

[north basin]

u are not a raider if u dont have 180 corruption p3 stars set!

[balmy condor]

growth has occurred

[kind talon]

sounds like something you would say

[balmy condor]

I'm glad you can meme about nonsense instead of being serious about nonsense

[kind talon]

[spice spire]

Wrong reality, mind flay was top dam smh

[kind talon]

any echoing voiders?

twilight devestation afficionadoes?

[nimble tartan]

i love wow

[kind talon]

INEFFABLE TRUTH believers?

[spice spire]

Oh no

[north basin]

thought til end it will fire.

but but.

[stoic needle]

Can we just talk about how unethical spriest execute is

[kind talon]

yes

its unethical

[stoic needle]

9.2k execute dps

[kind talon]

spriest is unethical

man

[spice spire]

How can it be unethical? They’re men of God

[stoic needle]

Like what in the fuck lmao

[balmy condor]

ya ever heard about the church?

[stoic needle]

They get their execute for free and we have to use a leggo for it

[kind talon]

dont get me STARTED on warriors

[stoic needle]

Make zoldyck baseline

[kind talon]

they have an ABILITY called execute

[spice spire]

Whispyr found the joke

[kind talon]

smdh my head blizzardo

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

It would be absolutely fair and balanced for us to have a permanent 30% bleed and poison execute

[spice spire]

I’m going to be FUCKING murdered today at some point, I know it

[north basin]

in bfa spriest were top dpsers too if i recall it correctly

in some raid

[balmy condor]

I'll stab your brain with facts and logic

[spice spire]

We don’t listen to that here. It’s feel craft and scaling only

[kind talon]

any scalers?

[spice spire]

O no

[balmy condor]

inject you with a deadly mixture of sims and evidence based theorycrafting

[hollow barn]

Don’t forget simbait

[kind talon]

iqd is simbait.

[kind talon]

iqd cannot be trusted

[balmy condor]

any IQD non-believers?

[kind talon]

me me!

[stoic needle]

Repent for your sins

[kind talon]

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

I’m right here papi

[halcyon zealot]

my strat for iqd is to just never loot one

[balmy condor]

do you take medication for your paranoia

[kind talon]

[spice spire]

100000000000 IQ play

[stoic needle]

Imagine not slaving away over a hot group finder for weeks until you have a 220 Phial and iqd

What are you, a casual?

[north basin]

700 stat with 3 min cd? no tnx

[stoic needle]

Do you even want to do dps?

[balmy condor]

wait wait hold on

I have a screenshot for this

give me 2 seconds to log in

[stoic needle]

Fuck you whispyr

[kind talon]

lets goooooooooooooooooooooooo

[stoic needle]

Fuck you

[spice spire]

Fuck I’m ready

[stoic needle]

And your one key 226 iqd

AND Phial

[balmy condor]

no spoilers osh

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

hold on

[spice spire]

I’m ready for this absolute BANGER OF A screenshot

[kind talon]

LETS GO

IM WAITNG

[balmy condor]

blizz load screens man

[kind talon]

ssmh my head

[balmy condor]

oh fuck yeah

that's the stuff

[stoic needle]

[kind talon]

[spice spire]

Ooze gang only smhmh

[stoic needle]

I cannot tell you how mad that makes me

[warm parcel]

Imagine using clanseller trinket

And not 233 vessel

[stoic needle]

Clanseller?

[warm parcel]

IQD

[spice spire]

Damn, weak hit us with a “peasant” comment

Fuck

[stoic needle]

Iqd > vessel

Weak doesn't know

[balmy condor]

[warm parcel]

ye leme just quickly heal our tank

[spice spire]

LMFAO

[warm parcel]

thats fucking dead

[halcyon zealot]

speaking of Phial .. it took me maybe 2 months to get one on my rogue, my DK ran his first PF 15 last night and looted phial

[warm parcel]

good one IQD

[kind talon]

this u?

[balmy condor]

what if it is big boy

what you gonna do about it

[kind talon]

one up u

[stoic needle]

It's guaranteed to give stats during lust bruv

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

later

[stoic needle]

And you always get stats on the pull too

[warm parcel]

ik and also has extended dur

[ionic kelp]

slg is a hard boss confirmed

[stoic needle]

Cuz no one is dead and oom

[kind talon]

any heroic extenders?

[warm parcel]

Still my hate towards the trinket wont change

Get it out of my sight

[kind talon]

only pulling 3k dps on sludgers?

[gusty mirage]

I’ll never question you on a trinket again. I learned my lesson with the shadowgrasp totem

[spice spire]

Weak hitting us with the sim bait

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

Imagine using the Dreadvirgin Vessel when you could be using the Inscrutable Chad Device

[spice spire]

FUCK

[warm parcel]

We dont do simbaits here

[gusty mirage]

People have options?

[balmy condor]

we do simteases

[gusty mirage]

That sounds kinda hot

[kind talon]

blindside is simbait because im unlucky

[warm parcel]

spicy

[kind talon]

and dont get procs

[spice spire]

Tease me harder Papi

[kind talon]

100% copnfiremde ineffable truth

[spice spire]

Give me those hot APLs

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

you want a hot apl?

[spice spire]

Oh yeah

[hollow barn]

No, I heard that ct is simbait cus someone simmed 2T patchwork and it didn’t line up with their performance on huntsman 🤔

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

read this combustion APL without going crosseyed then combustion,use_off_gcd=1,use_while_casting=1,if=buff.combustion.down&variable.time_to_combustion<=0&(!runeforge.disciplinary_command|buff.disciplinary_command.up|buff.disciplinary_command_frost.up&talent.rune_of_power&cooldown.buff_disciplinary_command.ready)&(!runeforge.grisly_icicle|debuff.grisly_icicle.up)&(!covenant.necrolord|cooldown.deathborne.remains|buff.deathborne.up)&(action.meteor.in_flight&action.meteor.in_flight_remains<=variable.combustion_cast_remains|action.scorch.executing&action.scorch.execute_remains<variable.combustion_cast_remains|action.fireball.executing&action.fireball.execute_remains<variable.combustion_cast_remains|action.pyroblast.executing&action.pyroblast.execute_remains<variable.combustion_cast_remains|action.flamestrike.executing&action.flamestrike.execute_remains<variable.combustion_cast_remains)

[drifting cloud]

this channel needs Jesus

[spice spire]

Saw that before

Hate it

[limber lion]

https://c.tenor.com/pfXtPPK_3woAAAAM/blank-stare-really.gif

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

Those are definitely words I can read

[limber lion]

Fire Mage apl is my favorite.

[balmy condor]

fire mage is both so optimized, and so horrific at the same time

it's a thing of art

[gusty mirage]

Idk wtf I’m reading but I can read it

[north basin]

for non-programmeers. what is it?)

200iq shit i smell

[limber lion]

That's the conditions to use Combustion.

[warm parcel]

thats the instructions for the bot to use combust

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion we’ve missed you sir. How was your day?

[balmy condor]

how simulations use combustion

I think the biggest fuck you about the mage apl

is the very next line

[warm parcel]

and to be fair it doesnt need any programming skills

its just logic

[north basin]

people who understand it likee semigods for me 🙏

[balmy condor]

has a note

but the big ass combustion one

[ionic kelp]

how does m sire phase into p3? is it just when he casts the fifth hand at like 6:45 into the fight?

[balmy condor]

has nothing

[limber lion]

Pretty meh, didn't sleep at all and been away from home the whole day. Still got 30 mins of a class lesson before I'm done with the day and can go to bed.

Probably will be gone from RH for a few more days

[gusty mirage]

Well make sure you take care of your health and get some damn sleep

[balmy condor]

40% hp or time based like you mentioned

[spice spire]

Miss you Cev 😦 but get some rest bud - it’s important

[ionic kelp]

ty

[limber lion]

[north basin]

8 hours of sleep is a must

[spice spire]

8?! Bro don’t be a glutton. 4 hours and an “it is what it is” is all you need

[north basin]

jeff bezos said it. u can trust billionaire

!

[gusty mirage]

Wait y’all are getting more than 3.5 hours?

[spice spire]

Barely but surely, and don’t call me Shirley.

[balmy condor]

wait y'all are sleeping?

[spice spire]

I’m an old man, spite and energy drinks are the only way I survive on 4 hours

[stoic needle]

You could do a boring ass ~12k fire damage hit every 1.3min, or every 3 mins you could test your fate and slap the boss with a 60k envenom with the mastery proc or get a mini bloodlust in a box

[gusty mirage]

What my average weekday looks like

Idk how I’m alive tbh

[stoic needle]

Like why would u ever not use iqd

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

Same oxi, Jesus dude

I at least just sleep from 1-5

[gusty mirage]

I’ve caught the whispyr sleep disorder

[spice spire]

The ravenholdt curse :/

[safe barn]

This is so sad

[balmy condor]

what part of it

[safe barn]

that the most likely to be better than any of the ones we already have might get nerfed

[stoic needle]

I mean tbh if it gets nerfed the most likely nerf won't affect assassination at all

[safe barn]

unless blizz says something like "you know what fuck this, you can equip one cov leggo and one regular"

[stoic needle]

Deathspike isn't THAT op

It's just the fact that it blade flurries is a little wild

[safe barn]

yeah but, don't you think it's a little sad that the new leggos arent any better then the ones we already have?

[thorny pond]

Not really

[stoic needle]

That seems to be the case for most classes

Think of the alternative: you're forced to go to a certain covenant because one of the new legendaries is absolutely insane giga busted

[thorny pond]

New leggos are fun but if Kyrian was OP then there'd be an exodus for that leggo

[stoic needle]

I think the kyrian one might end up being decent but that's just my feelcraft

[safe barn]

yeah, i guess that being forced to play something you dont want to is kinda sad

[thorny pond]

I just used that for an example

[safe barn]

like fire mages and druids

i would love to come back to venthyr/nf cuz i thought they played better than necro

[thorny pond]

If leggo + cov was equal for all the covenants then it's a wash but how likely would they get that balance perfect?

[safe barn]

its blizzard

its never balanced perfectly

[stoic needle]

You're already perfectly fine playing whatever covenant you want

[kind talon]

except nightfae

[stoic needle]

Even kyrian as much as we meme on it

[kind talon]

:)

[thorny pond]

Right, so I'm of the opinion I'd rather covenant leggos be slightly worse than what we have no as opposed to getting pigeonholed again

[north basin]

i dont wanna switch cov third time again. hate catching up and questing. hope venthyrs stays bis in 9.1

[stoic needle]

It probably won't

But you don't have to switch

[safe barn]

kinda, necro's are a blast in m+ content, plus, we dont have as much necro classes as nf so the dungeon bonusses are a good addition too

[stoic needle]

Yeah but

You don't have to be necro if you don't want to

Your character won't be deleted if you aren't necro

You won't not get group invites or raid spots if you aren't necro

You're just psyching yourself out into thinking that you need to be a certain covenant for whatever reason

[safe barn]

i might go back to venthyr idk, that shit was so fun

[thorny pond]

You are correct, but it's not fun to see others doing better because of a choice you made to not do that

[stoic needle]

Yeah but they have a stinky transmog and an ugly mount

You're caring too much about other people's performance tbh

[safe barn]

wdym

venthyr's horse is amazing

[stoic needle]

Necrolords are worst in slot aesthetics

[safe barn]

ohh you mean necro

[stoic needle]

If you had more fun as the other covenant you should go back to that

I'm having more fun as necro even though it's technically worse on st because sbs is a more fun button to press in my opinion than flag

[safe barn]

im not good with mouseovers so, the least i do that the better

[stoic needle]

Tbh I'm not convinced that you have to mouseover sbs

Tab sbs works fine

[thorny pond]

Tab SBS is god tier

Let lady luck decide

[hollow venture]

Necro is best in slot aesthetics just for that shoulder hand

[stoic needle]

It's not quite luck

The tab system prioritizes things that are casting and things that you haven't targeted yet

[stoic needle]

You're wrong. But that's okay

[hollow venture]

I look forward to 9.1 where I can double hand my orc shoulders. To each their own though.

[stoic needle]

[hollow venture]

That's the shiv hand

[stoic needle]

LOL

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/scarymovie-stronghand-take-my-gif-5462582

[stoic needle]

it actually would be kind of cool if you could put a weapon in it

[thorny pond]

that's the necro legendary. shoulder only no transmog, you get a 3rd weapon

[stoic needle]

Pog

[hollow venture]

Oh that's a good idea, I'd pay 1500 anima for a broken sword held in that hand. Even more if could choose the weapon xmog

[thorny pond]

General Grievous was a necrolord, confirmed

[safe barn]

you guys are fooling yourselfs

[stoic needle]

The dark tint of the necro mog doesn't look completely terrible

[thorny pond]

Necro pieces pair well with other random shit

[stoic needle]

Yesh the covenant sets are all pretty nice for mixing and matching I think they did that well

[drifting merlin]

Hmm zoldrycks on feet or leggs and stats is crit + haste i guess or ? for m+ 🙂

hmm found the stats in pins

problem solved.. feets were half the price of the leggins :p

[stoic needle]

Feet are technically bis for 9.1 as well

Because there are 259 ilvl legs in the raid but not boots

Same deal as doomblade gloves vs shoulders right now

[echo estuary]

Gotta take into consideration if you will ever get to those bosses with your guild

[stoic needle]

Sure

[vagrant bison]

do you guys use the /@ party1 for trick of the trade if you pug a lot? Some tanks have absurd names to insert into a macro, and often pugs just ignore your requests to make the tank the lead. There is a way to make tricks easier without clicking on the party frame?

[stoic needle]

https://wago.io/OPG-27Bnm

[balmy condor]

I have an @ name macro and then just right click copy name before a key

but yeah that auto tank works

[round flume]

I just use a focus macro and /focus the tank when we start

[gusty mirage]

I’m still using my focus tricks macro from wrath

Lol

Back when rogues would tricks each other

[pure moth]

Same

[vagrant bison]

meh, i always have something else in focus

thanks for the wa

[stoic needle]

yeah i think its a waste to focus your tank the whole dungeon

[fallen fable]

Why

I play like that

With kick on mouseover

[balmy condor]

kick on mouseover sounds dangerous

[fallen fable]

Why would it sound. Big platter nameplates

And u dont miss anything

[balmy condor]

idk how big yours are

but in big aoe

you're not gonna see shit

[dawn ivy]

my nameplates go a million miles an hour anytime one thing moves

id never hit a kick

[balmy condor]

yeh

[fallen fable]

I usually see everything. My name plates are just stacked over each other

[balmy condor]

wait

[fallen fable]

Not dancing alot around

[balmy condor]

that makes it ever harder

[fallen fable]

How does it make harder?

[balmy condor]

if they're on top of each other

how do you ever mouseover a nameplate that's behind like 3 other nameplates

[fallen fable]

Not behind

Over

[balmy condor]

oh

but then they move

idk man

mouseover kick

sounds super fucking sketch

I'd never hit a kick again

[fallen fable]

I got used on it. I mean its not problem.

Just gotta get used on it

[torpid spoke]

@balmy condor i'm sure you heard this question a lot, but did u see the new legendary?

[balmy condor]

I'm sure you heard this answer a lot, but have you checked the pins

[torpid spoke]

too high from 4/20 still to check pins

[balmy condor]

3 days later?

[torpid spoke]

it was a large blunt

[balmy condor]

understandable

[dawn ivy]

hey rogue community figure have you seen the rogue legendary

[balmy condor]

it's not like I get pinged like 5-10 times the moment a PTR build goes live

[thorny pond]

@balmy condor I can't think for myself and the notes are 5 seconds old, where are the sims atttttt reeee?

[dawn ivy]

build drops, servers arent even live yet, WHISPYR IS THE LEGENDARY GOOD WHATS THE SIMS

[balmy condor]

pretty much

[thorny pond]

The data says x but I think y. Why not y?

[balmy condor]

I think I get a pin up on new things on ptr within like 30 minutes of the build

pretty consistently

I remember 9.0.5 ptr dropped I had a pin on it within 5 minutes

[thorny pond]

You're one of the best figures of discord communities that's for sure

[balmy condor]

lmao

thanks man

[dawn ivy]

the tricks change was hilarious

[balmy condor]

I think my favorite are when people don't know that spec aura's exist

and then there's a change to the whitelist

and they go

GUYS SIN BUFFED BY 51%?

WHAT?

INSANE?

[keen tree]

I'm gonna make me a doomblade on hands 🙂 Is it Crist Haste missives?

[thorny pond]

Yea that's a good call

[balmy condor]

can go crit/haste on every legendary

[thorny pond]

mastery crit is a 🚀 move though

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

it finally hit me

the burn

what do i do now

[thorny pond]

Your best.

[keen tree]

thx guys. not sure when i will get to use it 🙂 might try and get a pug spot in a raid!

[safe barn]

i dont know what this is LMAO

[balmy condor]

I mean usually for burns I would suggest cooling the area, apply a sterile bandage, and apply a petroleum-based ointment two to three times a day

[strange python]

thanks

[balmy condor]

every spec in the game has a hidden multiplier to its abilities, which we call the aura. When you read patch notes and it says things like "assassination does 7% more damage" or whatever, they're just cranking that aura

it doesn't affect all damage though, notably melee's and trinkets, since it's only the abilities of the spec

[strange python]

i have an itch to switch to arcane mage for some reason

[balmy condor]

so it's a whitelist (only spells they add to the list are affected, everything else is not)

in 9.1 for example, they added a new pvp talent, and they added that to the whitelist for the aura

[thorny pond]

Better than them trying to tune each knob, they just made one big aura and pinned it back, like when homer simpson tries to act skinny

[balmy condor]

so adding a new spell to the list gets datamined and caught as a change

and then people read the datamining and see "assassination abilities do 51% more damage, affected spells:" and see a giga long list

and they go WAIT HOLY SHIT 51% MORE DAMAGE THATS HUGE

but that's what it is right now

so then people show up here and go "yo 51% buff sin is crazy right?" because they were incapable of thinking for like 5 whole seconds and realizing the consequences of buffing a spec by 51%

and then me, being the guardian of the channel, respond with "no, that's just the aura, we're at 51% right now"

and then they respond with "what?"

[subtle tundra]

what?

[balmy condor]

which then means I have to explain what the aura is

and that then leads to the top of this conversation

[thorny pond]

Why don't we just get Moroes to command that?

[subtle tundra]

🤤

[balmy condor]

I mean we can make a command for it I guess

but it's also not that common a question

so it's whatever

I don't mind explaining it

it's just funny that people see the 51% in datamining and go full monkey

[kind talon]

WAIT HOLY SHIT 51% MORE DAMAGE THATS HUGE\

🐒

[plain thistle]

its huge

[fallen fable]

W8 assasin got 51% buff?

Hugeee

[grave dock]

I wonder if anyone ever stops to think "hmm, 51% seems like a slight outlier in terms of patch to patch balance adjustments"

[strange python]

51 % is a lot whoah

[balmy condor]

I mean, you would think they do

[strange python]

does this mean assassination is better than shadowpriest?

[balmy condor]

but every patch

it always comes up

[grave dock]

yea I don't blame people for not being well versed in the ins and outs of auras

[kind talon]

whats a shadowlpriest

[grave dock]

part of the problem is how data mining works to be honest - MMO and wowhead just throw up a bunch of numbers without context early on, and people eagerly read it before it's parsed and explained

[stoic needle]

crit/mastery doomspike

that's the only legendary i'll go on record recommending you craft with mastery

[balmy condor]

I agree, I think for one of the 9.0.5 patches, we actually had to go to wowhead and ask them to change something manually because it was datamined and just left there, and the datamine was just full on incorrect

the community's carnal desire for the most accurate information the moment it hits a test build is kind of really problematic for theorycrafters and the sim devs especially

[grave dock]

I get why at times people want information quickly - if there's a situation where you need to make a decision like, this week, it can be important

[balmy condor]

everyone runs to us for answers in the middle of the day and expects a well thought out response that covers all the nuances and is backed up by sims and data

[grave dock]

but right now it's like...a PTR build in april for a patch that will release in july

[balmy condor]

and that's just not possible

[grave dock]

I know

[balmy condor]

and from experience over beta and the last couple ptrs

the issue is

if I don't have a response

people will make their own and paint a black and white world

where X new thing is CRAZY OP GIGA DAM

[grave dock]

yea I mean

[balmy condor]

and then you gotta mop up after it

[grave dock]

inevitable to a degree

patch days are never not a zoo, going back to the inception of class discords (or even the IRCs that predated them)

[balmy condor]

yeah

[grave dock]

I did find legion particularly frustrating in this regard, because there was a fair amount of flux with balance/spec stuff early on, a lot of stuff was changing, nobody was really sure, and I know people needed time to tweak the APL and test stuff (and actually play the game on launch)

but picking your spec ASAP mattered a lot because you could get locked into a legendary on the wrong spec (which happened to me)

but that's not a TC speed issue, more a legion design issue

[balmy condor]

I mean it's a balance

we knew what would be good legendaries and what would be bad

zoldyck for example, we knew was going to be good

even with rough numbers, it was just good

so that was the recommendation

people just overreact about another 0.3% dps most of the time

like dashing was always very close to BiS single target

but it never quite made it

even though it's essentially doomblade with QoL

[grave dock]

sure

[balmy condor]

and better aoe

idk I just wish everyone would just breathe for a lil XD

[grave dock]

i'm just bitter because there was uncertainty about which spec would be the best, I was playing sub, got the boots, and then didn't get an assassination legendary until we were on gul'dan

[balmy condor]

yeh

[grave dock]

[safe barn]

i got it now thanks

next week is my turn to ask about the 51% buff

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

https://i.imgflip.com/56w7kp.jpg

[strange python]

@long coyote I wish we could

[heavy trail]

Should we like not spend soulash till 9.1 to see what's best? or is there anything safe to do so far only have 190s MA and zolds

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck is safe, doomblade is safe, dashing is safe

I'm saving for deathspike

[vestal wren]

we don't know soul ash in 9.1 so far seems rather unimportant

[stoic needle]

Tbh if I could go back I'd probably craft dashing instead of doomblade just because of how it's easier to target swap with it

Which is good for single target fights with adds

[heavy trail]

i guess perhaps DB if you pvp ?

deathstpike is the new leggo right for NL looks neat but perhaps they nerf it

Wouldn't you perhaps repalce zolds with that on m+ if it stays like it s?

[void pivot]

Hi there rogue friends, anyone mind taking a look at our mythic innerva logs and seeing if our two assasination rogues are on the up and up?

[stoic needle]

I'd need to wait for a sim and to test it to see but deathspike does look insane at first glance and definitely a contender to beat zoldyck especially for fortified

[stoic needle]

If anything I feel like dashing is better for pvp because it's less vulnerable to your bleeds being cleansed

But I'm not a huge pvper

I feel like a few months into 9.2 I'll have enough ash to have both db and dashing but from a new player's pov dashing is probably a bit more flexible overall

For prog

[heavy trail]

Yeah so might be b etter to keep zold at 190 and see how things go haha

[stoic needle]

Unless the fight is like hungering destroyer

I dunno, zoldyck will still be a good legendary for execute fights in raiding

Like, if ur gonna do torghast every week for the next few months then you aren't making a mistake by upgrading it

Deathspike doesn't have much single target impact, so zoldyck could become the play for tyrannical weeks depending on the difference between deathspike and zoldyck in overall output

If it's not that big you could take the aoe damage loss for more single target

I don't know if you'd use deathspike in raids

There's at least a couple fights next tier with some interesting 3rd phases so it could see some use

Eye of the jailer, sylvanas, tarragrue

Maybe the nine if it ends up not being feasible to stack the bosses

[heavy trail]

ok 🙂

you figure 9.1 is still a few months away then

[stoic needle]

Definitely at least 2 months