assassination

[tropic echo]

did that and I was answered with "tell that insanely nice person that this is progression for us and we're just trying to get as far as we can"

[balmy condor]

[polar cape]

@balmy condor i can see lust first pillar in heroic

[balmy condor]

no you can't

[polar cape]

but in mythic its just trolling

[balmy condor]

you can't see that

[polar cape]

well if you get 3pillar

[balmy condor]

then what

2 minute cooldowns on pillar 1/3
3 min on pull 3

lust pillar 1 is still fucking troll

[bleak sky]

some rls have a weird boner for fucking up their players cooldownns

[bleak sky]

I can't see how that won't lead to problems lol

"hey guys let's lust p1 just to see the whole fight! then when we have to lust at the right time we won't know what to do because we're so used to lusting p1"

[balmy condor]

lusting anything other than last pillar, on any difficulty, is trolling your group

[gusty mirage]

this is true

there's not much else to see on sludge

if you get to the first pillar you've seen the entire fight

lol

[balmy condor]

but what about the timings man

the ones that are exactly the same

for each pillar

[gusty mirage]

tru

[tropic echo]

well ive somehow convinced him to lust on 3rd

idk how that happened :l

[gusty mirage]

maybe they're playing 4d chess while we're playing checkers

cuz it makes sense

[balmy condor]

please tell me you guys are doing heroic and doing 3 pillars

[gusty mirage]

on heroic we lust on pull but thats cuz poor sludge dies by the time he runs into the third

er first pillar

[balmy condor]

oxi.

I fucking swear to god man

[gusty mirage]

I'M SORRY

we meme in heroic though 😦

[polar cape]

<.<

[balmy condor]

that's your parse that's getting fucked though

[mint anvil]

Whispyr

Hear what he has to say man

[gusty mirage]

not unless I fuck it first

[mint anvil]

This convo is worth having

[balmy condor]

uh huh

[tropic echo]

yup

apparently

lol

[gusty mirage]

I almost gave in and reinstalled path

[polar cape]

plot twist his guild was looking at heroic logs for mythic prog

[balmy condor]

that would make sense

idk, lust on sludge is one of those things that makes me really fucking mad

[mint anvil]

TBF, most people's mythic logs are fucked at higher progressions I feel like

[balmy condor]

cause like there's nothing skill based about it or anyhting

no one plays differently

you just have to say "lust"

at a different pillar

[mint anvil]

Cus who does reclears (assuming u arent ce yet)

[balmy condor]

that's all you have to do

and you just troll the lust

for no reason

and then you're like "hey you're trolling the lust"

nO iM nOt

lOoK lOgS

mE lUsT oN PiLlAr oNe

it's not even some weird logic like mut vs ambush from opener that isn't obvious at first glance

it's just "do I lust with half my cooldowns? Or do I lust with all my cooldowns"

infuriating

[tropic echo]

i wonder if there's ever some sort of weird stat balance where MP or EP is ahead of blindside

[balmy condor]

EP vigor is ahead on sludge

[tropic echo]

so you literally just take ambush off your bar entirely

[balmy condor]

MP is trash though

[tropic echo]

oh interesting

yeah i guess the free ambushes don't get as much value during cds

[stoic needle]

Blindside/deeper sims best for most people right now

[tropic echo]

specifically for sludge though because of burst windows

[balmy condor]

during beta sims there was actually hope for MP beating out EP/BS at the end of this tier with a bit of mastery

but then they nuked lethal poisons

so MP went back into the dumpster

[tropic echo]

what was the .5 buffs for assa that made it so good?

[balmy condor]

cttc was good, venthyr was good

[tropic echo]

oh right they brought back cttc

[balmy condor]

but we had over 20% of buffs before that from weekly resets

so

[stoic needle]

I think we could use another 5% tbh

[balmy condor]

I would say 9.0.5 was just the straw that broke the balances back

from the start of the expac to now, sin has received about 25% worth of buffs

[bleak sky]

what a great time to reroll

[stoic needle]

Look at that scaling

[tropic echo]

made a rogue at the start of .5, had to basically stick my head in a guillotine for my gl/rl to let me swap

[balmy condor]

"why no fire mage"

[tropic echo]

ye no literally that i wanted to swap from fire mage to assa

[polar cape]

havoc gonna get buff trust

[tropic echo]

partly because the guild already had a mage and i enjoy rogue a lot it's just not had good showing all expac

until now

[brazen gust]

is Assassination the best rouge spec ?

[balmy condor]

in raids, yes

outlaw still wins on some fights

but it's generally better

[tropic echo]

it's the best melee in general rn in nathria i think

[brazen gust]

i have a outlaw rouge but i am never near the top dps

[balmy condor]

yeah

[tropic echo]

idk how the fuck it overtook unholy

but ye

[balmy condor]

I'm not sure about best

but it's up there

windwalker is pretty crazy

[tropic echo]

according to recent sims it's the highest performing melee

[brazen gust]

oh so maybe i should play Assassination rouge

[balmy condor]

yeah it sims highest for sure

[tropic echo]

i meant raid sims

not just sims

or not sims lol

[bleak sky]

tfw 220 havoc sims lower than 202 sin

btw can anyone check my logs real quick? swapped to sin this week and I've been wondering what i'm doing wrong

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kpYy48fVJh3B6T7H#fight=16&type=damage-done

here, for example

sure, 90 ilvl parse but how do i get to that sweet 95+?

[low girder]

stop ambushing from stealth

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[earnest remnant]

better uptime on dots aswell

[bleak sky]

yea that's me being dumb

[low girder]

also that flag is mega early

use it right before a finisher

[bleak sky]

so let's say i'm opening from stealth

[tropic echo]

i meant logs lol not sims

[earnest remnant]

mutilate SnD mutilate

[balmy condor]

main things are always "are you using ambush? stop doing that. Are you shivving on cooldown? probably should." Flag before a finisher, vend/vanish together, don't overcap, maintain everything

do those things

and you're slamming

[low girder]

pretty much

[bleak sky]

you'd go mutilate -> slice -> garrote -> mut -> mut -> rupture -> vendetta -> build -> flag -> finishers?

[low girder]

no

[tropic echo]

i assume you always shiv on cd regardless of cp/energy

[low girder]

you're missing a global of MA doing that garrote

[tropic echo]

unless it'll overcap

[tropic echo]

you mut slice mut garrote

[bleak sky]

hmmmm

[low girder]

mut snd mut garrote flag rup slam

[bleak sky]

alright, alright, sounds good

[tropic echo]

you're gonna be empty gcd for like a second after the garrote but it's worth for the MA mut

[low girder]

i throw vendetta in there

when that happens

[heavy trail]

i didnt realize how important it is to keep SND up over everything. I started doing that and did a lot better

[low girder]

don't have to though, probably lose a miniscule amount of dmg doing that

yeah no snd is like 7-8% dmg loss

melee is a very large portion of our dmg

[bleak sky]

thanks for the tips everyone ❤️

[balmy condor]

should be more than that

7-8% seems low

poison applications also go down quite a bit

[low girder]

idk i just cut melee % in half

i did forget about the poisons

so yeah prolly more like 15%

[balmy condor]

we can sim it

any other guessers?

[earnest remnant]

12%

[tropic echo]

11%

[low girder]

DP procs are ~ 10-12%, melee is around 15%

DP dot wouldn't change

don't think it would affect anything else

some trinkets i guess

[balmy condor]

survey says.......

cmon....

7.5%

[tropic echo]

wow

[earnest remnant]

wow

[low girder]

interesting

[tropic echo]

7-8% was spot on lol

[stoic needle]

Poggers

[bleak sky]

7.5 is still a lot of damage

[low girder]

do DP procs have RPPM

wtf is going on there

[balmy condor]

I would've thought it would've been more

yeah

aight autos are 756/322 vs 502/215

dps wise

so it is 50% more

[low girder]

[balmy condor]

yeh idk

[low girder]

don't see RPPM anywhere, weird

are the poisons the same?

[balmy condor]

yeah poisons are all just chance

[low girder]

i meant the dmg

or are they cut in half

between snd/no snd

[balmy condor]

uhhhh

708 vs 572

that's also 50%

ish

[hazy ruin]

Do you guys feel venth is significantly better than necro?

[balmy condor]

some of that is obviously mutilate

[balmy condor]

no, venth is only bis single target

[low girder]

yeah. idk, weird.

regardless, bad thing to do! put it up once and forget about it unless you find a boss with a minute long intermission

[hazy ruin]

Ty friend, does necro become better at 2+

[balmy condor]

Oh wait

@low girder our math sucks

[low girder]

or don't hit envenom before p2 transition on sire

why

[balmy condor]

Yes

We cut it in half

[low girder]

oh

wait

[balmy condor]

The melee hits

[low girder]

yeah we're dumb

LOl

ok now it makes sense

[balmy condor]

That 15%

Is actually 7.5

But bad math

[low girder]

but yeah i guess like 4th worst mistake you can make

#1 is no poisons

#2 and 3 are not using rup/garr

[earnest remnant]

or be like me and desynch vanish and vendetta on sludge cuz i fat fingered and thought i pressed vanish just to notice 5 sec later i did indeed not press it

[bleak sky]

me the day I swapped to sin: "oh shit forgot to poison before the fight" - 4 bosses deep into the raid

[low girder]

me playing sub in nya in prepatch

[shy dust]

Weak auras as your friends

[low girder]

because i hadn't changed my WA yet

[bleak sky]

yea haven't had a problem after getting auras

[earnest remnant]

had 1 night (while having a WA for it) forgetting it anyway cuz i was busy shittalking

[bleak sky]

shittalking is important tho

[earnest remnant]

yup very fuck hungering anyway

not as bad as the other rogue in our guild, on Denathrius this week he forgot to swap his weps away from outlaw so like 10 sec into pull he noticed that he had a sword in mainhand

[low girder]

i also did that on prepatch when i finally went to try new outlaw, couldn't dispatch and was confused af

surprise, gearsets were deleted

prepatches are great memes

[earnest remnant]

ye was fun content when people finally see the changes made to their class

[gloomy knoll]

garret 1

garret 2

[lyric crater]

hey guys is nerolord going to be the next best covenant for sin?

[low girder]

not really the question to ask after 1 ptr build

[lyric crater]

fair enough people been posting about this pass week

[iron vigil]

Has anyone gotten the mount in Plaguefall?

[low girder]

it looks good but there's not gonna be data on anything for a while, at least until it gets close to release. but if it's like live rn it's not gonna be a big difference between them

[low girder]

i know of a few people, have only seen one video though. and he was sub. https://youtu.be/yWhZWC6nmsM

[iron vigil]

Thanks

[kindred imp]

hey guys, in keys, 15+, if you have a pull of 6-7-8 mobs, you can't really maintain dots on all of them so we have to prioritize, after the initial sub garrote and CT applied on the adds, do we prioritize getting ruptures up on 2-3 before we have to refresh gar/CT? Looking at various videos, some people ignore gar. after initial application and just focus on ruptures, some people ignore ruptures and just do CT spam. So.....what do we focus on keeping up in such a pack if the fight lasts for a while.

[stoic needle]

Definitely don't ct spam

Don't ignore gar either

Get up as many gar and rup as you can

Fok+gar > rup > tab > repeat

[kindred imp]

so let CT fall off you reckon? I mean at 7-8 targets on 40-60 sec fight, hard to keep it all up, near impossible 😄

[stoic needle]

Necro is so sick because you can sbs > rup x3

[kindred imp]

yeah fair

[stoic needle]

No you don't let ct fall off, you refresh it in pandemic

Ct is priority over new ruptures ofc

[kindred imp]

and rupture priority over gar?

[stoic needle]

Well garotte is a builder

So not really

Press garotte on cooldown basically

You can only get up 3 at a time without vanishing to do more subterfuge ones because of the cd

[kindred imp]

yeah k

not a lot of high keys sin videos out there yet 😦 all outlaw 😦

[stoic needle]

Ryfie does some streams

And Seliathan was playing some sin

Rip dei

[heavy trail]

I found that when you sbs you can get tab rupture nicely with the combo points you get especially in lower health mobs

[spice spire]

The boy

[heavy trail]

too bad you cant macro rupture and sbs (wish it was off gcd) lol

[stoic needle]

Yeah man, sbs is so fucking nice for m+

You could do a cast sequence

It wouldn't be terrible

Or like a modifier

But I have sbs and rup on mouseovers, it works well enough

[thorny pond]

Sbs macro with other abilities is clunky. Its nice to have the on demand CP for a saves the day KS if someone fucks interrupts up

Quick rupture for energy. Etc

[gusty mirage]

when someone fucks interrupts up*

it's not an if statement sir

it's a when

played with mages that literally won't interrupt

"its a dps loss"

[subtle kiln]

just tricks the mage

pretty sure using other defensives are a bigger dps loss for them.

[low girder]

it counts as an arcane spell for their leggo wtf

[gusty mirage]

that off GCD ability that triggers their leggo is a DPS loss

HUGE brain

[fathom swift]

i mean it is a dps loss

[gusty mirage]

so's dying

[fathom swift]

sure, if the mage is telling you they can't kick they're trolling

but if they're asking to not kick early to optimize their legendary then it's a legit reason

[heavy trail]

managed to time another dos with 4 seconds left everyone kept on "dpsing down" all the spitefuls lol

@stoic needle Everyime I set up a cast sequence at some point for whatever reason it gets stuck and becomes unreliable

[stoic needle]

you need to add reset=x at the end of the macro, where reset is a few seconds or number of presses etc

[heavy trail]

ill give it a shot

[final fossil]

Probably a frequently asked question, but what leggo should I craft first?

zold's?

[echo jay]

what do you do mostly? raids? pvp? m+? Master Assasin is a good all around one

[gusty mirage]

^

if you plan on just raiding, doomblade

zoldyk if you plan on raiding and M+, MA if you plan on doing it all

[thorny pond]

bUt WhAt AbOuT dEaThLy ShAdOwS?

[gusty mirage]

man I wish I had the copypasta for deathly sitting around

[low girder]

i have it but i don't want to spread it around in spec channels

whispyr has enough to deal with

[gusty mirage]

My goal is to finely walk the line of Whispyr wanting to strangle me and still kinda liking having me around

[final fossil]

Sorry, stepped away for a bit. I plan on doing both M+ and raiding. Not like crazy high keys, mostly raiding

So Zoldyck on legs for my first?

[gusty mirage]

zold on legs is good for both then

[final fossil]

Craft Doomblade afterwards I guess then?

[gusty mirage]

yep 🙂

zoldyk's really good for sire too

[final fossil]

Sick, thanks for the help!

[gusty mirage]

so you'll be set on raid leggos aswell

[final fossil]

Oh my guild is done on sire prog lmao

We were stuck on heroic sire for over a month

[gusty mirage]

yeah that fight's a bitch

the timing is everything

[final fossil]

I honestly really like p3

I hate p1 and p2, just so boring

and long

[gusty mirage]

def a great end boss for a tier

but man is it frustrating progging through p2

[final fossil]

yeah

Does the value of mastery change at all with zoldyck?

[balmy condor]

not noticably

[final fossil]

Alrighty, so still focus on haste / crit?

[stoic needle]

yep

[gusty mirage]

are you feeling okay? not stanning mastery hard anymore?

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor i want a soul ash refund, you told me to craft my legendaries with haste/vers and now vers is my worst stat

dishonest CFs

[gusty mirage]

whispyr might stab you

[stoic needle]

mastery stacking is only for advanced sin users

[gusty mirage]

and I'm all for it

[balmy condor]

you also said that you were going to pvp

how'd that work out

[gusty mirage]

WRECKED

[stoic needle]

it worked great

i got 1600 and then quit

[gusty mirage]

[stoic needle]

but my zoldyck isnt haste/vers for pvp

[gusty mirage]

man what are you going to do without that ~8 dps?

😦

[stoic needle]

idk man probably delete my character tbh

[gusty mirage]

tbh same

[stoic needle]

ok somehow crit haste doomblade gloves are actually worse

must be undersimming

[balmy condor]

whispyr stonks rising

[stoic needle]

i don't believe your lies

[gusty mirage]

📈

[low girder]

finality refund when

[gusty mirage]

fr

I still got a 235 runecarver chest sitting in my bags

[stoic needle]

you'll be glad you have it when sub gets buffed on tuesday

[gusty mirage]

that's how long ago I gave up on sub

[stoic needle]

OKKKKKK THIS SIM IS OBVIOUSLY DOCTORED IN SOME WAY

[ionic flume]

how did sub get buffed

[stoic needle]

whyspr what have you done to raidbots

[strange python]

Atleast u don't have both finality and a max rank akaari sitting in ur bags like me

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

it didn't

[gusty mirage]

osh is having a midlife crisis rn

[ionic flume]

[stoic needle]

i don't understand how vers is my lowest weighted stat and yet changing to crit/haste is a dps loss for both of my leggos in ST and dslice

[gusty mirage]

cuz stat weights is useless

[ionic flume]

no

it is the sims who are wrong

[gusty mirage]

what food buff do you use when simming stat weights?

[stoic needle]

but bigger number > smaller number

agi

[gusty mirage]

I think raidbots just hates you

and likes whispyr more

[balmy condor]

stat weights lying?

what a surprise

[fathom swift]

why would you sim stat weights

[gusty mirage]

for shiggles

[stoic needle]

for fun

[fathom swift]

ok but

you say that

[gusty mirage]

Any pawn users in chat?

[strange python]

Pawn is omegalul

[stoic needle]

nah like i literally just simmed it because i was bored and curious

[fathom swift]

then you try to rely on stat weights for legendary stat optimization?

[balmy condor]

the only pawn here is oshosi with his manstery

[fathom swift]

cmon bro

[gusty mirage]

GOT EM

[stoic needle]

you're taking this way too seriously

[fathom swift]

no u

[stoic needle]

clown me all you want, when mastery is bis in 10.0 you all will come crawling at my feet

[balmy condor]

start... clowning

aight got that marked down

[gusty mirage]

damn, osh playing 5d intergalactic chess

the SUPER long game

[strange python]

I remember when mastery was bis...but that was back in legion lol

[gusty mirage]

feels like forever ago tbh

then you remember legion was forever ago

[grim shuttle]

When PB proccs determined if you where a good player or not

[strange python]

Lmao

[gusty mirage]

bruh Legion is about to be 3 years ago

wtf

where did the time go

[stoic needle]

how does this picture make you feel

[gusty mirage]

this reminds me of season 3 in BFA when my tank was like "Why don't you run like 70% mastery and master poisoner?" and my response was "Why don't you learn how to not turn your back to the boss and I'll consider your suggestion"

[balmy condor]

master poisoner in bfa

[gusty mirage]

Imagine not playing EP in bfa

[strange python]

Iirc exsang was poggers on mythic fetid. Rip exsang

[stoic needle]

if i didn't lose 5 ilvl to get that much mastery i'd run that in M+

i do this instead

i want more crit less haste but it's hard

[low girder]

master poisoner for stronger numbing poison

[stoic needle]

utility poggers

[gusty mirage]

maybe that's why he wanted me playing MP, cuz he didn't know the basics of tanking

300 iq play on his end

[stoic needle]

was he really that bad

[gusty mirage]

he crumbled on anything above a 15

lol

so he wasn't terrible, because a 15 was pretty good in s3

[strange python]

[gusty mirage]

[strange python]

do you intentionally have that much mastery

[gusty mirage]

yes yes he does

[balmy condor]

Mastery isn’t bad in m+

[low girder]

osho is a trendsetter

[balmy condor]

But those stats are fire for raid

[stoic needle]

you're goddamn right i intentionally have that much mastery

[gusty mirage]

anyone else running 20%+ vers because most of their gear came from PvP?

[stoic needle]

n

[low girder]

i did at first

[strange python]

ive replaced most of that gear

[stoic needle]

i'm replacing my last piece of pvp gear as soon as the price on boe bracers drops

[low girder]

i'm down to like 16% vers now

[strange python]

then again i never bothered to get higher than 220 pvp stuff

[gusty mirage]

don't shame me

[strange python]

thank god i dont have to do that next tier

[stoic needle]

the vault just keeps giving me good m+ gear

all crit and mastery

[gusty mirage]

vault keeps giving me haste mastery

[stoic needle]

i feel like a big dummy for turning down that chest 2x in a row

[hazy crater]

233 gear from vault

[strange python]

one day

just one 233 weapon before tier ends at least pls bro

[gusty mirage]

low key might just grind out pvp because I'm getting bored of pve try for 2400

[stoic needle]

i just want a 226 iqd

and sire ring

[somber hill]

I remember i hit 200% mast in legion felt like a god

[undone scroll]

Use Ambush with the proc from Blindside (if talented). Due to Mutilate having two chances to crit and proc poisons, this is usually not worth the energy when not free.

so does this mean i shouldnt use it during execute phase? just when it procs

just for clarification

[balmy condor]

You never use ambush except if you have a proc

[strange python]

I run ma for m+. I got it on ring. Is that bad call? Would it be better in other slot

[balmy condor]

The difference in legendary slots is usually quite irrelevant

Ring/bracers, like the case for ma, is actually one of the most irrelevant

[strange python]

Ok thanks. Ive had discussions before about legendary placements but at the same time those I spoke to where just. Idk. Rectums? Yea. Rectums.

[balmy condor]

Even in the case of zoldyck, where it’s legs > boots

It’s like 0.6-0.7% in the best situation

Our other legendary of choice, doomblade, is shoulder/hands, and those actually have identical stats

[undone scroll]

its typically easier to gett other items other then ring so thats the reason i think to go ring

espeacially since the Ilvl > secondarys does not apply

I should always pull energy before envenom on ST then right? Those are the other two things i just wanna be sure I am certain on

[hazy crater]

Not always

If you have a damage buff up you just slam

vendetta, shiv, sludge pillars etc

but pool otherwise before envenom

[balmy condor]

???

[balmy condor]

??????

I have no clue what any of that is supposed to mean

[earnest remnant]

translate time

Harder to get ring with right stats, and no main stat on ring not sure tho im kinda lost aswell

[balmy condor]

[undone scroll]

dis

[earnest remnant]

xD

[balmy condor]

But...

Nah

It ain’t worth

[vestal wren]

stats are usually in favor of itemlevel > secondary.
Its different for slots with no main stat

[balmy condor]

I mean even for rings, with how close stats are

Ilvl is very good

[limber lion]

Yeah, a 213 ring will most likely not be better than a 226 ring.

Even with the Sire ring giving mastery, it's still our best ring because of how high ilvl it is.

[heavy trail]

funny after doing 24 DOS (still no IQD) how you begin to know every single mob's shit pretty well lol. It's also funny watching the random various pugs eat mechanics and die in funny "new" ways 🙂

[earnest remnant]

Dw there is hope it took me 35 PF runs to get the phial

[limber lion]

But that's a great thing, once you step into high keys and DoS specifically, you'll know every mechanic by heart.

Even if it's boring, it's still great practice in case you want to do high keys at some point.

[heavy trail]

Yep so true

I guess I can forgive the tanks for the trash packs but some of them pulling bosses with spiteful mobs up and making me either not have an opener or waste a vanish/meld ugh

I am also going up reknown too at 27 now since I respeced 2 days ago

Up to about 5k valor also i think

if I do get it might wait to upgrade until after reset though in case i get a high one in my vault lol would be a blizzard classic to do 25 upgrade it using all your valor and then getting one lol

[limber lion]

Good stuff

[silent stratus]

why pooling before evenom (assuming no dmg buff)?

[limber lion]

Because it allows you to spend energy where it's needed more, ie. during Shiv windows.

[balmy condor]

Mutilate applying poisons is generally good

[limber lion]

You don't lose anything from pooling, as long as you don't let your energy cap.

[silent stratus]

But what do you gain? Aside from when shiv is coming up so you want to maximize the dmg window

[limber lion]

You have energy to use for Shiv/Flag/Vendetta windows.

[balmy condor]

Nothing apparently

[limber lion]

Yuup

Let me ask you this instead

[silent stratus]

Is this referring to my question?

[limber lion]

What do you think you gain from starving yourself of energy?

[silent stratus]

If yes, I didn't understand

[limber lion]

Why would you starve yourself of energy?

[balmy condor]

Mutilate applies poisons, yea?

[silent stratus]

I avoid any risk of overcapping energy

Yes if they didnt change today

[balmy condor]

Okay

And envenom increases poison application rate?

[silent stratus]

by 30%

[balmy condor]

Okay

So then mutilating during envenom

Is better than not doing that

[silent stratus]

I completely agree

[limber lion]

There you go then.

[silent stratus]

how long is the evenom 30% buff?

[limber lion]

If you use Envenom at 40 energy, how much energy do you have left to Mutilate?

[balmy condor]

1 + cp spent

[silent stratus]

ok, makes much more sense now

you save energy so you can maximize the # of mutilate during evenom buff

[balmy condor]

I mean, it’s one of the reasons

[limber lion]

That's one of many reasons.

[balmy condor]

It’s not close to the main reason, that being pooling into cooldowns

[gloomy fern]

i mean u can get ez 99 without pooling its just some minmax relax

[undone scroll]

okay i guess should you always wait until 80% before envenom even after shiving

[limber lion]

No

[balmy condor]

No

[limber lion]

During Shiv you spam

[balmy condor]

Is it pin time

[undone scroll]

so spam during shiv, pool out of shiv

[balmy condor]

This question comes up way too often

[gloomy fern]

[limber lion]

[low girder]

spam during cooldowns, pool outside of cooldowns

that includes shiv

[silent stratus]

yes but my question was referring when u have no dmg buff and no cds upcoming

it makes sense to pool into cds

[undone scroll]

I don't see any particular section talking about pooling in pins

maybe thats your issue

[balmy condor]

That’s the problem

Might be time to add one

[limber lion]

Whispyr will add one

[low girder]

probably

[undone scroll]

I would say so the guides are actually kinda shittly done as far as clarity

[balmy condor]

Since we talk about this 50 dps min max

[limber lion]

There's 3 guides

[balmy condor]

Over and over and over and over and over and over

[limber lion]

And they're all very in-depth

[undone scroll]

badly formatted too

[limber lion]

But they might still be lacking some things.

[limber lion]

[vestal wren]

i don't think you mean clarity but hand holding

[silent stratus]

well it's a guide

[limber lion]

They have so much information and sections for everything you would ever need

[silent stratus]

I guess the goal is to hand hold

[vestal wren]

all guides try to do some hand holding but require some sort of proactivity

[low girder]

bah

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[undone scroll]

I dont like icy veins i read wowhead

[vestal wren]

we have no guide that is to the point that removes the entire thinking process from the reader

[undone scroll]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[limber lion]

But you said

"the guides are shitty"

Referring to more than just WoWhead

Also, the WH is just fine

[undone scroll]

well a lot of youtube videos too

[limber lion]

[vestal wren]

i mean, for some people finish with 5+ cp is hard to understand

and this is no joke

[limber lion]

Some people also struggle with the concept of NOT finishing with full combo points and instead max-1

[undone scroll]

Honestly fuu did you write that guide

[torn atlas]

People being intentionally obtuse thinking they are hilarious.

[undone scroll]

you seem kinda salty honestly

[low girder]

lol

[vestal wren]

people would rather have sequences to follow, and things split up in every individual part. But also not to complex

its why opener discussions are so popular

it gives people a very strict thing to follow

[undone scroll]

I would rather understand why something is done

[vestal wren]

but yet a lot of people blindly follow their sequence when the opener is dynamic

[vestal wren]

but thats the point, not everyone has this incentive. A lot of people want easy to digest information that provides results without a lot of effort/thinking

what is a fair critique

[undone scroll]

My point is people got all butt hurt because I was just trying to ensure I understood something and was not getting it wrong. Feels like LoL in discords lately lol

[vestal wren]

oh, i think most people are fine if you ask back if you understood something right

"so, pandemic is 30% of the duration of the buff i apply?"

[limber lion]

You going from "so pool during Shiv?" to "The guides are shitty and so bad" is on you.

[vestal wren]

would likely end up in a "yes" as a answer

[limber lion]

Not on the discord.

[balmy condor]

I’m sorta failing to understand who’s butthurt and why you’re feeling attacked tbh

[undone scroll]

Why do you care, what my opinions

[balmy condor]

Because I’m wondering what happened in the two minutes I was gone

[undone scroll]

not you

cev

[limber lion]

Huh

[balmy condor]

Mata answered though, and confirmed your question

[vestal wren]

i think people are just curios why do you think so bad about the guides

[balmy condor]

Why are we mad

[undone scroll]

Wowhead one is mostly formatting and maybe not going into a tad more detail on little things.

[pliant flare]

[vestal wren]

or rather, what do you think could improve them, overall some of us are in contact with the guide writers and could pass on feedback if its reasonable

[undone scroll]

The formatting makes this a nightmare to read. There is practically no formatting, no attempt to make things easier to read. It seems to me the writer was just writing it to get it done because he had to. There are some issues with the icy-vein one but very minor. The icy-vein one is just has a better format to it and seemingly more information. Honestly I stopped reading icy-veins cuz some of the stuff seemingly wasnt up to date early on but seems like thats been addressed.

[lofty shell]

yeah it's a huge wall of text but how would you attempt to format a priority-based list of cooldown abilities? idk if theres anything that would make it easier to digest, atleast, not that i could think of rn

it's also diluted alot by covenant and soulbind stuff that doesn't necessarily matter for your char

[undone scroll]

Icy vein did a good job its like a nice layered cake, very simple basic information at the top getting more complex as you go lower.

Giving basically the abilities in priorty for single and multiple target with brief notes, good for people who know what the other mechanics are but wanna know the priority.

below that it gives deeper information

[solar hare]

Theyre both written by very trusted people so

Whatever you think is easier to digest works

[undone scroll]

i mean i trust my friends but I don't think I would let htem operate on me

being a trusted person and being able to write a guide is not the same honestly

[vestal wren]

I am not sure if your complain simply comes from the fact that a lot of details are stated

[solar hare]

Your friends arent also licensed surgeons im sure, Seli and wEak are some of the best sin rogues and know what theyre talking about, theyve put in many hours of TC’ing to deduct reasoning, its within the consumer to gauge if they would like to take the advice though

[undone scroll]

honestly don't care if they are good rogues man, its the formatting

[balmy condor]

mystler does wowhead

[solar hare]

Weak does RH and seli does IV

I didnt know if that picture was wowhead or RH tbh

[undone scroll]

wowhead

[vestal wren]

i think your complain is more about details

[low girder]

is there a wowhead guide you think is laid out well

or are they all like that

[vestal wren]

e.g. reducing this line like this:

[undone scroll]

Sin rogue

is the only one i have seen that bad

some could use a little more advanced info

but nothing that ever made me cringe

[vestal wren]

but i don't think details are bad

[undone scroll]

Lacking in some areas

But if it was formatted better

its probably enough

[vestal wren]

i mean if i compare the rotation guide you have a lot less detail on iv

but you say wowhead is worse

but lacks details

[undone scroll]

Sure considering wowhead is 80% just what abilities do

let me list you all the things you can read in game

some people need that i get it

but

probably could be its own page but thats a different argument

[ebon thorn]

Yo im forgetful, if youve done all of torghast on one character, is that account wide?

can i do layer 8 insta on fresh char

[solar hare]

Ya

[undone scroll]

ya

[ebon thorn]

ait tyty

[vestal wren]

i am sorry, i don't understand

i don't see " list you all the things you can read in game" on the linked rotation picture

[undone scroll]

Let me put it this way if there was the best book in the world and I removed all the spaces between paragraphs so it was just one big block

[vestal wren]

you would mind evaluating with a example?

[undone scroll]

would you still read that book?

readability is important

[fathom swift]

that's how the guide format is given, it's not the writer personally deciding to do that

[undone scroll]

Well i was just saying most of the content is that stuff

that stuff is actually well formated

lol

[vestal wren]

okay, thats fair but the headline of that section does say more or less "look at the basics"

so its basically:

• rotation
• basics
• further reading material

so your complain is that they didn't split out basics?

[fathom swift]

I agree the rotation section itself is very dense, but the information in it is good

[undone scroll]

Look at icy vein that is well formated mostly, they have the simple stuff, and progress to medium stuff then more advanced stuff

[fathom swift]

but I am biased too

[undone scroll]

like a cake

you come in you just wanna know the rotation? its right there, need to know a bit more info? then its right past that with out confusing whatt you need to do to begin with

further down is advanced things like pooling energy and why you wanna pool it

or pandemic and how it works

[fathom swift]

so your complaint is that it goes adv > easy > med instead of easy > med > adv?

[vestal wren]

i mean iv does not cover covenants and alternative talents

at all

in the rotation segement

so yes, its easier to read

[undone scroll]

No my complaint is it looks like a high schooler wrote it

and has bad readability

[fathom swift]

I think that's a bit harsh but I get where you're coming from

[vestal wren]

but its rly just, that iv goes less into details:

[undone scroll]

well its late im tired and i feel like people don't know what readability or formatting is

[vestal wren]

iv says:

• maintain snd
  wowhead says:
• maintain snd under this conditions

[undone scroll]

-.-

Do i need to link you information about formatting

its not the data that is there thats the issue

its how easy it is to read and comprhend

[earnest remnant]

im sorry but its a guide to a class in a game and not a court document

[vestal wren]

but both use a list, so the formating is rather similar

[undone scroll]

no oen cares stealthi lol

[fathom swift]

they've already got feedback that that page's readability could be improved so there's not much point in reiterating it

[vestal wren]

one list just looks nicer because it has less information

[dense axle]

You're complaining about how someone wrote a free, in depth guide to play a class in a video game...bruh

[undone scroll]

To be fair

i was asked

[sacred isle]

Clearly you do

[undone scroll]

why i thought the guide was bad

[fathom swift]

I think the feedback itself is fine, it's just a bit harshly worded

[low girder]

he was asked

can we stop jumping on him ty

[fathom swift]

I don't think formatting makes the info in a guide worthless

[vestal wren]

sea, we just discuss the "why"

[dense axle]

Ah

[undone scroll]

don't wowhead writers get paid

always assumed they did

[vestal wren]

also both wowhead and iv authors get directly or indirectly paied

[fathom swift]

yeah I assume free meant the guide is free to read

[vestal wren]

but thats not the discussion

[dense axle]

Yeah free to read

[fathom swift]

you def get paid for that sorta work

[undone scroll]

I would be mad if i was wowhead but to be fair they have people who work in a field that should know how to format

so they should of helped with that

he gave the info they should of been able to make it more readable most people are not going to understand how to format a webpage

So on that aspect its not his fault

or her

[ebon thorn]

bolas

[sacred isle]

I just think it’s important to note that “readability” has a lot to do with personal preference and what target group you have.

[fathom swift]

yes

[ebon thorn]

are you lost

[fathom swift]

no

[ebon thorn]

this isnt the ret discord

[fathom swift]

implying i actually main ret

[ebon thorn]

implying anyone mains ret

[undone scroll]

its like i said

if you can remove all the spaces from paragraphs in a full book

and read it all the way through

that will give you an idea how important readability is

there are reasons why there are standards for that sorta thing

Maybe one standard isnt as good as another for osme people i suppose that could be argued

[vestal wren]

okay, what exactly do you mean with formating

[dense axle]

White space? Or sentence structure

[vestal wren]

as again, it doesen't seem like its the way information is presented

[undone scroll]

formating is a way of arranging text to allow ease of readability

[vestal wren]

because, if you remove information (details) from wowhead it looks very similar to icy vains

^ like this

[undone scroll]

that is one way to format

[sacred isle]

But honestly. I think you are putting to high demands on a guide for a game.

[undone scroll]

Why wouldnt you have high expectations from things in lie you only get one life mate.

[vestal wren]

yes, but you do say icy vains does it better

[undone scroll]

always expecting crap is not a good way to be ether

but i was asked

[vestal wren]

when it seems to use the same format

for the rotation

so i am confused

[sacred isle]

You get what you pay for? 🙂

[undone scroll]

Poor guy

anyway

Is it the same format

[fathom swift]

they know the formatting could use some work, it'll get worked on eventually, this stuff takes time to work on

[undone scroll]

if its short information

[sacred isle]

I don’t expect the same readability or format from the kids book I get at McDonald’s as I do from the kids book I buy at the bookstore for 30 $

[dense axle]

Also, can't remember looking at that guide since I got back into WoW back in WoD. At a certain early point you stop looking at it and instead read logs to improve

[vestal wren]

okay, so my initial thought was right that the main issue is how much details are presented

what is a fair point

but

https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-simple-guide#rota-pull

wowhead has the "starter guide" section for that

that presents information the way you look for

[undone scroll]

Okay, honestly i gota go to bed i have spent a CRAZY amount of time debating a issue that really didnt need to be debated this long. Guides are nice because good ones can give you insight on why people are doing what they do in logs

Knowing you should do something is not the same as knowing why you do it

If I know why they arguably you can adapt or change depending upon a situation

[dense axle]

Knowing why is very complex. Not really good info to fit in a guide where people just wanna learn what buttons to push

[undone scroll]

I feel thats super wrong

but i don't have time to debate

anyway something i found on web to be fair I dunno if it covers what I was refering to

https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/03/10-principles-for-readable-web-typography/

but maybe let you snow ball into other aspects of formating

https://tenor.com/view/cheerio-hat-tip-gif-10803496

[zinc frost]

Can’t wait to see your new and improved sin guide!

[verbal mantle]

[oak arrow]

That's horribly formatted.

[zinc frost]

“I don’t have time to debate” says person who starts initial debate..

[vestal wren]

its kinda ironic that the readability of the article of readability is not great ^^

[earnest remnant]

yup

[lofty shell]

i should read the morning convo's more often in here

[dense axle]

Seems more like he's critiquing wowheads site, not the guide as much

[lofty shell]

seems more like someone is trying to make a point where there is no point for the sake of making a point

[normal mist]

From what I understood he just didn't enjoy the way the information was presented to him

[low girder]

i can understand that. only thing is i spent most of that conversation going through other wowhead guides and they all looked very similar in layout

so idk

i did try

[normal mist]

Maybe some sparkles and shiny stars around the page would help

[fathom swift]

there is a rotation tool that is used on some other guides, it'll prob get added to the rogue ones at some point and help that a bit

[vestal wren]

I mean, there are def. areas wowhead could improve in readability/stucture

[low girder]

of course, he just said specifically the sin rogue one was bad in comparison to the others

[vestal wren]

but the article mentions most very obviouse issues, and i don't see them strike out to me on wowhead to much

[low girder]

and i don't see much difference outside the rotation tool bolas mentioned

[fathom swift]

it's pretty much just that, it reduces some of the clutter from irrelevant talents or covenant abilities

[lofty shell]

ye alot of clutter in every guide tbh thanks to covenants

[vestal wren]

i think thats a consequence of the layout of the guide

with the condensed information in the "starter guide"

and the more detailed part in the "rotation" section

[low girder]

some of it. that tool, will help a lot though

whenever they get around to adding it

[vestal wren]

so, if you skip to the "rotation" immidiatly you are presented with a lot more than you want

[low girder]

this thing

[lofty shell]

oh that would help alot

removing all the stuff from other covs

[torn atlas]

I mean their name is literally "hater" pretty sure they were gonna complain no matter what was presented to them.

[foggy moat]

i feel like im doin soemthing wrong in M+, with full single target build i can pump maybe 3.8k on my rogue ( https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Wraithfreak ) but if i switch to M+ aoe build i barely scratch 3k even in AoE my dps is lower somehow, any tips on priority CP spenders?

[limber lion]

Well first of all, you never go full ST in M+.

[balmy condor]

usually would be a gameplay issue

not maintaining CT enough

not multidotting enough

not using cooldowns on cooldown

[foggy moat]

yes, thats my point, i do more dmg overall in ST talents, in AOE fights, than with AOE talents

[balmy condor]

that sort of thing

[limber lion]

What talents/gear are you using for your AoE set?

[balmy condor]

that's impossible

[limber lion]

Because that's not a thing

[foggy moat]

i use the wowhead recommended talents, CT, and elaborate

[balmy condor]

then there's no way your aoe would be worse

unless you're just not using the abilities you talented into

[foggy moat]

if i go full st and just spam garrotes and ruptures and hope for PBs i usually do alot better than spending points on CT

[limber lion]

In AOE you just put garrote/rupture on everything, keep CT up at all times

And that's pretty much it

[limber lion]

You don't spam CT

[balmy condor]

you maintain CT like a dot

[limber lion]

That's not really considered "full st" if you spam garrotes and ruptures on everything.

That is how you play in AoE.

[foggy moat]

well, my talent build is ST is what i meant

[karmic crystal]

Does your group have particularly high aoe or something

[limber lion]

You apply 3-4 garrotes in the beginning with Subterfuge, you apply CT to everything, then you just keep applying ruptures/garrotes to everything around you.

[foggy moat]

im usually top overall dps, but not always

[limber lion]

Filling with Envenom when the mobs are dying or when everything has bleeds up

[strange python]

hey guys just before swith to assa dommblade and venthyr for raiding right ?

[limber lion]

Ye that's fine.

[strange python]

ty 😄

MA for M+

[limber lion]

Zoldyck

Or MA, doesn't matter that much.

[final star]

MA gang rise up

MA NS gang represent

[strange python]

héhé thx mates

[lofty shell]

is EP and CT the play on m huntsman?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[lofty shell]

i tried it last week and did pretty good but idk if thats just me being bad on the other setup

[limber lion]

EP/CT usually sims higher for 2T encounters.

Some people are just lazy and just stick to the single target build whilst keeping bleeds up on the doggo.

[final star]

EP/Vigor/CT gud

[lofty shell]

yee i used to do that but seems worth to swap, think i got the idea from reading u comment about it cev 😛

[spring solar]

hey should i craft doomblade or zoldyck for m+? I am confused

[limber lion]

Zoldyck, Doomblade is pretty bad in M+

[limber lion]

:p yep, it's just more overall damage going the slight extra effort.

[spring solar]

thanks

[limber lion]

[swift dragon]

doomblade is garbo in anything past 1 target

its insane on ST tho

very wierd leggo

[zinc frost]

It’s decent in PF. Usually get similar numbers or even higher than zold.

[strange python]

Nadjia for ventyr right ?

like dat https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/soulbind-calculator?venthyr?nadjia-the-mistblade?rogue?1=331586?3-341537-1?6=331576?10-341531-1?13=331579?16-341312-1?20-341532-1?23=331584?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[limber lion]

Except you would use Lashing Scars instead of WPS

[balmy condor]

soulbinds are in the pins btw

[balmy condor]

still our preferred lego on 2 targets btw

[swift dragon]

wait what

[balmy condor]

wait what what

[swift dragon]

what

[balmy condor]

what?

[swift dragon]

w

[balmy condor]

doomblade is bis on 2 targets

[swift dragon]

oh

me dumb

[limber lion]

Ye

[swift dragon]

confirmed !

[strange python]

like dat so https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/soulbind-calculator?venthyr?nadjia-the-mistblade?rogue?1=331586?3-341310-15?=331576?10-341531-1?13=331579?16-341312-1?20-341532-1?23=331584?

[balmy condor]

there are pins

with soulbinds

you can also very easily simulate this through top gear

[strange python]

just for info i dont have LAshing scar actualy im NF sub

where is droping ?

[balmy condor]

if doesn't drop for night fae

lashing scars is a venthyr only

covenant conduits come from callings/world boss/sire

[strange python]

ok have to swith ass for drop

[balmy condor]

you'll have to change covenants

[strange python]

swith venth*

sry

[balmy condor]

yep

[strange python]

thanx drop rate 100%

or not ^^

[gusty mirage]

No conduits are not 100% drop rate

[strange python]

okok

[somber patrol]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber lion]

Defias Brotherhood

[gusty mirage]

I finally synced my patreon with discord, and it exposed me

[normal mist]

I was about to click that!

#cry

[honest karma]

Haha where did it go?

[balmy condor]

self-promotion is not allowed

[honest karma]

Ahh

[mint dawn]

Where can I share it so ppl can see?

[honest karma]

Twitter

[balmy condor]

you posted it on youtube, so I guess you already did that

[honest karma]

Btw u los those Stealthy bois while standing down in that ditch?

[mint dawn]

You can Vanish them but have to be real quick so Domina doesn't reset

[vestal wren]

if you want to officially promote content you need to ask the depsots.
else we have #rogue-streamers and don't mind if people post their content if its relevant in the discussion they have.
e.g. if you discuss dungeon skips, posting a video about a specific skip you talk about

[balmy condor]

despots in 2021

[honest karma]

Ahh nice, i tried earlier but used vanish purely offensive and no consums just to see how hard it was going to be

[balmy condor]

fuu showing his boomer age

[vestal wren]

i mean

if the content is good/relevat its possible to feature it in fans

[balmy condor]

they're called shadows these days fuu

:P

[vestal wren]

ohh, my bad

i still call black powder vault :/

[balmy condor]

🇫 to IRC

:/

[vestal wren]

boomer indeed

[gentle rapids]

when using IQD during execute, should I use a self-targeting macro for the buff or just use it for the execute damage?

[balmy condor]

you should macro for the stats

[gentle rapids]

Okay, ty:)

[gloomy fern]

at what % do huntsman take more dmg btw

[swift dragon]

i think its once the dogs die

[balmy condor]

when the dog dies

[swift dragon]

so no fixed %

[balmy condor]

well that is fixed

[gloomy fern]

well hp pool is shared so

[balmy condor]

I think its around 10%

[swift dragon]

nvm im dumb

[balmy condor]

2/2

[swift dragon]

i might be smoothbrain but i dont miss

[balmy condor]

idk, seems like you're missing something

[swift dragon]

[heavy trail]

Doing pretty well now just sometimes get a bit flustered in large aoe packs and fall behind as I end up guessing wrong in terms of fan of knives vs trying to garr/rup/sbs things too much 🙂 oh well

[strange python]

I seriously struggle to get the most out of assassin right now. I had an easier time with Subtlety. I guess for the most part the things I struggle with are resource and cooldown management. For instance should I always try to pair flag with vendetta if I don't lose any usages? Should I also try to buld up combo points before using shiv for maximum envenom output?

[limber lion]

You rarely can "garr/rup/sbs things too much"

That's where most of your damage comes from.

[balmy condor]

you use flag on cd generally

if you know you won't lose anything

you can sync

[strange python]

should I try to pool energy and building up combo points before using flag?

[balmy condor]

he's got the pins

[strange python]

thank you very much

[limber lion]

@heavy trail There's a few occasions where you don't want to rup/gar stuff:

1. The mobs are about to die so the debuffs won't last close to the full duration. (This doesn't apply to SBS as you want to get resets by sniping with it)
2. Everything already has garrotes/ruptures on them and they're not in pandemic range.

Sometimes you have a choice between Rupture and CT, but most of the time in packs consisting of 3+ mobs, you want to CT.

This doesn't mean spamming it though, just applying the debuff and then going back to applying bleeds to everything.

[balmy condor]

np

[faint harness]

Sub is easier these days

[swift dragon]

this mf be cappin

[spice spire]

Always is

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-gif-18932176

[heavy trail]

@limber lion Thanks for that

[limber lion]

No probs.

[spice spire]

I actually hate that. Ty

[timber basalt]

is there ever a reason to run doomblade in m+ or should I always default to MA

[limber lion]

You should default to Zoldyck.

[timber basalt]

don't have it

[limber lion]

There are some dungeons with smaller pack sizes where you can run Doomblade, like ToP.

[timber basalt]

and probably won't craft for a while

[limber lion]

But not much use outside of that.

Then just run MA.

[timber basalt]

but you still spam garrote from stealth with MA, right

[balmy condor]

if you have subterfuge, yes

[timber basalt]

or do i switch from subterfuge

[balmy condor]

you can play nighstalker

[limber lion]

With MFD and CT.

[timber basalt]

I've been running the build in pins (2233123)

[limber lion]

That's fine. You can try the NS build and see how it feels.

[timber basalt]

with MA should I go something like 21X3123

[limber lion]

2130023

[timber basalt]

I'll give it a try next, thanks

[wispy leaf]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[stoic needle]

A 190 zoldyck is only a week's worth of soul ash and would still be solid, legendary ilvl doesn't matter much

[wary ice]

mfd->ct->fok->rup->fuk->rup

if u prioritize garrotes in the opener its going to feel like shit

[frigid kestrel]

i do not like how MFD feels in keys, plus i like my 3 silence openers. This diff in MFD is minor, ye?

[stoic needle]

Yeah MfD is 100% not neccesary

I prefer vigor for the consistency

[frigid kestrel]

Same

[stoic needle]

Sbs is MfD but better

[frigid kestrel]

i run 2212223, i don't do anything super high but it gets the job done

[heavy trail]

Yeah similar stuff for me too from the advice here i tried a few dungeons MFD but it's not as fun as sub build

[frigid kestrel]

As soon as my guild downs Sludge im going Necro. Should help me hit 8k in keys finally

[stoic needle]

I just went necro anyway

[wary ice]

8k?

[stoic needle]

In the middle of sludge prog

Kekw

[wary ice]

OH DPS

[frigid kestrel]

ROFLMAO

[wary ice]

im like damn this guys nuts

[heavy trail]

8 k oerall dps

[frigid kestrel]

^

[heavy trail]

I hit 4.5 k but im only 192 ilevel 🙂

still using MA trying to get this trinket and make zoldyck as reward for that haha on run 26 now

[stoic needle]

I've been doing like 6k average since I swapped to necro even using sbs pretty poorly

This is during spiteful week

[heavy trail]

yeah swapped to necro 2 days ago got to rewnown 30

spamming DOS

[stoic needle]

So non spiteful and with some practice I think it'll be better

[frigid kestrel]

Depending on PUG tank and Key i average about 6.5 - 7.5 as Venth

[wary ice]

MA is pretty bad this week imo

hot take i know

[heavy trail]

I haven ono other leggo until get this darn trinket 🙂

[stoic needle]

I need to run a bunch of mists

I've been doing nothing but plaguefall and sd where my overall is shit

[frigid kestrel]

SD overalls can be pretty decent tho

But again, depends on the pulls

and if people are cheating with Spiders

[stoic needle]

Spiders?

I always die in the gauntlet

[heavy trail]

just ganked up my alchemy dont have to spend as much to make pots and flasks lol

[stoic needle]

That ducks me over