assassination

[balmy condor]

But I get where they come from

I think it was originally koji’s idea

[stoic needle]

I mean let's be real even if we had infinite energy all the time we'd still be worse at aoe than real aoe classes

[slow marsh]

Well yeah

We still rely on fok

for cps

[royal lantern]

turns out, when all your aoe is DoT based with no real impact skills, your aoe is bad

[slow marsh]

energy not really the issue in aoe anyways. we are overcapped a lot of times

[stoic needle]

Give sin 'malicious rapture'

[royal lantern]

no

then warlocks would complain

[slow marsh]

Give alacrity baseline

too op

[royal lantern]

"wtf affliction is the real dot spec, why do they get something like that"

[stoic needle]

Fuck warlocks

[royal lantern]

meanwhile affliction multidotting is instant casts with no cd

[hollow escarp]

I'm tempted to start playing lock besides rogue

full dps classes always have a spot in raid

[royal lantern]

well yeha

except rogue

cus you are melee

🙂

[slow marsh]

I've thought about rolling a lock but for other reasons

[hollow escarp]

it used to be the same for rogue, but I think cloak was the reason

[royal lantern]

i like how hunters complain about the nerfs(yeha they where overblown) but they STILL get taken cus they are ranged

[slow marsh]

It's more that they can target swap wel l

But yeah

melee feels

[limber lion]

It is the best raiding class in the game. They can do mechanics at range whilst doing damage at the same time.

[slow marsh]

Would exsang be good if it worked on all our bleeds instead of just target?

[limber lion]

But numbers matter too much in this game.

[slow marsh]

They also have lots of ways to mitigate mechanics

[hollow escarp]

it would be good even if it was on primary target, if it wasn't on the same row with Alacrity

[limber lion]

Even with a perfect toolkit, you still need the numbers to back you up.

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but as rogues, we have the immunity that isn't a dps loss

[royal lantern]

i would say best raidingclass goes too mage

they have SO MUCH tools

[slow marsh]

Na

druid

[hollow escarp]

druid brings nothing besides CR

[slow marsh]

But close for sure

[hollow escarp]

innervate

roar

[royal lantern]

altered time alone

[slow marsh]

mages can't brez

[royal lantern]

is such a 10/10 broken ability

or mirror images

and nobody talks about those

[slow marsh]

also druid bear form

[royal lantern]

[limber lion]

Mirror Images aint that great tbh

Only on dots

[slow marsh]

or not bear

[hollow escarp]

imagine being rogue and complaining about defensives

[limber lion]

Or passive damage.

[slow marsh]

whatever makes them op for chains

[royal lantern]

are you serious now?

[slow marsh]

I mean I like feint for sure

I wish evasion was more useful

[hollow escarp]

Nathria is a not the best example

but we have great defensives

[slow marsh]

If we had evasion for physical anything then it would be nice

[hollow escarp]

we can dps while cloak is active

feint every aoe

[royal lantern]

there is a small difference bettwen "you can maybe reduce aoe dmg by 40% by using your offensive resource, but 70%is blacklisted anyway"

[hollow escarp]

health pot every 30 sec

[royal lantern]

and "lmao 2min cd that is a flat 20%dmg reduction for that stays for 45sec"

[limber lion]

But it doesn't though

Direct damage breaks the mirrors

[royal lantern]

it litearlly does

[limber lion]

And they disappear

[royal lantern]

yeha

[limber lion]

It only works on passive damage like I said

[royal lantern]

you know what counts as a DIRECT hit?

almost nothing

[limber lion]

Ye

Like Wicked Blades

[royal lantern]

you get targeted by the arrows on huntsman? you dont lose a immage

and you have 3

its not like 1 mechanic=gone

it litearlly needs too be 3 in 45seconds, when almost nothing counts as a direct hit

that shit is so stupid

[slow marsh]

I mean tru

but feint

Is better imo

[royal lantern]

feint cost energy and is blacklisted for how many things again?

[shy dust]

What are you feinting on sire?

[royal lantern]

^

[shy dust]

Feint is an amazing ability when it works

[royal lantern]

like

[slow marsh]

tru

[shy dust]

Doesn’t work on most things

[royal lantern]

the entire "but feint" thing is so weird when feint just doesnt do shit in so many fights

yes it would be strong

[shy dust]

Alter time like Tryan said

[royal lantern]

but it just isnt

[shy dust]

Is one of the most busted defensives

[limber lion]

Ye, AT is dumb af

[ionic flume]

Can u elaborate on feint not working on most things

[royal lantern]

altered time+mirror immages alone should be the ENTIRE toolkit

but no, iceblock+shields is a thing too

[slow marsh]

There's a rather large list of abilities that go through feint

[ionic flume]

I was using feint religiously when I still played

[royal lantern]

well, like i said

there are many abilitys that do aoe dmg

but dont get reduced by feint

[limber lion]

Feint is dps loss

[royal lantern]

cus blizzard doesnt want you too reduce that dmg

[limber lion]

not worth

[ionic flume]

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

@limber lion yeah, rogue has trash defensives

[ionic flume]

Can u give me some examples

[royal lantern]

on some fights that means your entire deffensive toolkit is MAYBE cloak(if you dont need it for a mechanic) and vial

🙂

[limber lion]

Cheat Death as well tbf

[royal lantern]

you mean

[limber lion]

But you didn't count that for mages either

So

[royal lantern]

that thing mage has baseline?

[limber lion]

[royal lantern]

[hollow escarp]

so ok, rogue and mage have the best defensives in the game

mage has better defensives

that's about it

right?

[royal lantern]

fking arms warrior has better deffensives then rogue lol

die by the sword+deff stance alone blow rogue out of the water

[hollow escarp]

not talking about raid cooldowns

[royal lantern]

the entire "rogue has great deffensives" thing would be real, IF most raid dmg would be aoe

but it isnt

[grand ridge]

30% damage reduction on a 3 min cd

[royal lantern]

rogue has cloak, wich is great, dont get me wrong, but also limited

[grand ridge]

vs immune to most things on 2?

[hollow escarp]

I know Nathria is weird because all the non-magic damage

[low girder]

"most things"

lol

[hollow escarp]

maybe our defensives are limited because energy cost or damage type, but we do have a solid toolkit

[grand ridge]

you can cheese so many raid mechanics with cloak entirely

[royal lantern]

LIKE?

[hollow escarp]

you could

not in Nathria

[royal lantern]

can people give me notable examples for that

[hollow escarp]

thot harvester

[royal lantern]

like srsly, that like some peak reddit shit all the time

[low girder]

you can sit in consume for like 6s more dmg, huge

[limber lion]

Consume

[shy dust]

You can clear traps

[royal lantern]

you cant

[shy dust]

On artificer

[royal lantern]

it does dmg trought cloak

[shy dust]

Then die to the dot

[royal lantern]

[hollow escarp]

nope, I'm cloaking my ghost

[low girder]

no it doesn't?

[limber lion]

No it doesn't.

[low girder]

i've done it

[limber lion]

You can cloak consume lol

[shy dust]

You can sit in consume

With cloak

[low girder]

that's pretty much the only thing though

[shy dust]

Just have to wait a second

[royal lantern]

maybe im mixing up the mechanics now

[low girder]

the big succ on hungering

[royal lantern]

but ye like

[limber lion]

You can cloak everything in Hungering

So

[royal lantern]

you just read all the time ROGUE DEFFENSIVES SO STRONG, THEY CHEESE EVERYTHING

and then its like

[stoic needle]

I don't think you can cloak the miasma?

[low girder]

it removes stacks

[limber lion]

You can

[royal lantern]

give me a notable example that makes a raidteam go "damm, we want a rogue for that, they would be good"

[low girder]

but it doesn't go away

[hollow escarp]

it's like I haven't said that Nathria is a weird example

[stoic needle]

Yeah but it doesn't stop it from hurting you

[low girder]

just makes you not take dmg for a bit

[stoic needle]

[royal lantern]

instead of "eh, just take a mage or hunter, they do the same while not losing dmg from running out"

[limber lion]

Like if you're at 10% hp, it'll give you immunity for 5s

So you can get healed up

[grand ridge]

m+ should also be taken into account

[hollow escarp]

m+ is a mini game though

[low girder]

hungering is like the one fight cloak is really strong on

[royal lantern]

nobody is talking about m+

[grand ridge]

think of the countless things cloak will save you from

[stoic needle]

Cloak is great in m+

[royal lantern]

m+ will always be a unbalanced mess, same with pvp

[hollow escarp]

in m+ and pvp we are way more busted than raid

[royal lantern]

there is a reason why they balance around raids

[limber lion]

Some specs*

[royal lantern]

and for raiding, the rogue toolkit is really mediocre right now

[grand ridge]

mythic raids bring only certain specs to them due to imbalance

same goes for m+

[hollow escarp]

right now yes, because physical/bleed damage

[limber lion]

Sub wouldn't be a dogshit spec for 3 years + if they actually balanced all classes around raids

[low girder]

i mean let's not pretend cloak was some incredible thing in nya either

[hollow escarp]

pvp is secondary

[royal lantern]

m+ has WAY more restricitions if you go higher then mythic raiding

[limber lion]

They definitely consider some classes "raid specs" and some specs "pvp specs"

[hollow escarp]

or legion

[royal lantern]

like, you can still take all classes/specs for a mythic raid if the player is good

[low girder]

legion had its moments

[royal lantern]

you cant for high keys

[low girder]

blizzard stopped making that mistake after tomb

[grand ridge]

you can get ksm with any class/spec combo

[royal lantern]

ksm is not even close too mythic raiding lmao

[limber lion]

KSM is very low tier tbh

[royal lantern]

ksm is like curve

[grand ridge]

what else is there to go for other than a number on your io page lol

[hollow escarp]

but anything beyond KSM doesn't really matter

[subtle tundra]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4U1qiVMk7QKayeSNmN3Wqf
if i socket my belt i break 7k as necrolord

[hollow escarp]

just for fun

[limber lion]

Big.

[royal lantern]

anything beyond heroic raiding doesnt matter

[stoic needle]

[royal lantern]

you get your shity mount from the last tier on hc, why do mythic????

bruh

that argument is not very good

[subtle tundra]

yuge

[hollow escarp]

what argument?

[grand ridge]

mythic has an achievement lol

[hollow escarp]

all you get from doing 16+ keys is more 210 loot

[royal lantern]

mate its just, if people say high keys

they dont say 15-16lol

they say 21+

[limber lion]

Consider this

[royal lantern]

and thats the point where it gets WAY more restrictive then mythic raiding

[limber lion]

People raid mythic and do high m+ keys

because they want to

and they think it's fun

[royal lantern]

cus a good player can carry himself in a good group in raids

[limber lion]

😮

[slow marsh]

easier to get carried to KSM than it is for CE

[limber lion]

What a crazy thought, having fun in a video game.

[royal lantern]

in m+ you hit a wall at some point where your class/spec makes it impossible too play anymore

[hollow escarp]

but there is no mythic equivalent for high keys as there is for Mythic raiding

[stoic needle]

Disgusting

[royal lantern]

👉 🚪 out with that

[stoic needle]

I don't really think this is true because there are people playing sub in +24s

[royal lantern]

NO FUN ALLOWED IN MY VYDEA

[stoic needle]

And doing extremely well

[hollow escarp]

there is one people

[royal lantern]

it was just a made up number man

you know excatly my point

[stoic needle]

Sub is like objectively one of the worst m+ specs in the game and ppl are doing high keys with it

[elfin valley]

trying to make an argument between M+ and raid is kinda hard bc M+ infinitely scales wheras mythic is the hardest difficulty. So you can always be like oh well M+ gets harder

[stoic needle]

The number doesn't matter, I'm saying that if you're a gamer you can do high keys with any spec

[limber lion]

Up to a certain point

[hollow escarp]

you need 4 other people to believe in you

on a meme spec

[limber lion]

At some point it gets to the point where you need every single bit of dps, perfect pulls/routes, execute everything perfectly etc.

[hollow escarp]

and we don't have corruption resistance every week

to carry us

[stoic needle]

Idk I can't say that I know the ins and outs of every single spec in the game but I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that it's impossible to do keys above x level unless you're playing meta specs

[limber lion]

It's factual. After some point (who knows what level that is, could be +27, could be +30) you just don't have enough damage to time a key.

[stoic needle]

Is it gonna be harder? Absolutely. But impossible? Idk about that

[limber lion]

It's not about it being harder

But actually not possible

[glass root]

guys sorry to jump in and ask again , im NEcro sin rogue at sludgefist right now whats the choice lego and rotation for me ? 😄

[limber lion]

That's the nature of infinitely scaling content that's tied to a timer.

Eventually you just don't do enough dps to time the key.

Otherwise we would be seeing +40 keys being done toward the end of season

[hollow escarp]

doomblade and cooldowns on pull, 2nd pillar and 4th pillar

[limber lion]

But we don't

[stoic needle]

The problem is that we don't have infinitely scaling gear

Being capped at 229 ilvl limits all the classes

[limber lion]

No we don't, we simply have some classes that perform better than some

[hollow escarp]

well, there are some specs that could technically push high keys but there are not enough people trying to push with them

[limber lion]

Meaning that with a different comp you can possibly push for +1 or +2 higher keys

[hollow escarp]

a good example was assa until Ryfie started pushing, it looked like assa can't do 21-22 keys

[elfin valley]

@glass root also u do a slightly scuffed rotation on pull where u just make sure u rush ur CDs out so they are up on pillar

[clever vapor]

which revendreth soulbind should I use for mythic+? Nadjia still?

[limber lion]

Theotar with wasteland

[clever vapor]

@limber lion Thanks

[limber lion]

[tawny basin]

if im running crimson tempest for m+, on ST bosses - do you ever use it?

[thorny rose]

Yes

[limber lion]

Yes, you maintain it outside of Shiv windows.

[tawny basin]

thank you, couldnt find the answer for that anywhere on the guides while browsing

[limber lion]

No worries mate

[forest beacon]

Should I run double potency conduits for m+ picking up poisoned katar, or stay single potency and DD

[gloomy knoll]

probably double

can sim it tho

[limber lion]

You should run Theotar with Wasteland

[gloomy knoll]

rogue dslice actually works

unlike other classes

[forest beacon]

sims higher for sure, just thinking about tyrannical bosses

[limber lion]

But you can run double potency on Nadja as well if you'd like.

[gloomy knoll]

you don't go giga st for tyran weeks

[limber lion]

Wasteland is usually the better choice

[gloomy knoll]

that's a misconception people have

[limber lion]

It sims similarly to double potency, without taking into account the vers buff you give to your team

[forest beacon]

cool that's what i have been running this week but wanted to check for sure

[fervent beacon]

You go Giga regardless, sin cleave

I just run the talent accordingly to key, run lash with lethal poison

[forest beacon]

yeah without DD my st on bosses have been fine

[fervent beacon]

Then I swap the route for dauntless duelist for raid.

[forest beacon]

yeh i swap for raid, dd and just lash

[fervent beacon]

Yeah, sin ST pump but weak cleave. I mean you may as well just play outlaw for key.

[limber lion]

I just use Nadja with DD on raids and Theotar with Wasteland on all m+.

[limber lion]

1v1 me in orgrimmar

I'll show you cleave

[forest beacon]

except I personally don't feel like playing outlaw

[limber lion]

Assa is perfectly fine.

It does around 7-8k dps in keys. Perfectly good number.

[forest beacon]

if I had better than 213 weap, I need to find time to pvp for higher or hope for drops that havent happened

[fervent beacon]

Yeah just bit of work to get it going but I always run with boomkin and mage so they got aoe covered and I just brrrrr ST

[limber lion]

Most mages and boomies that I've pugged with still lose in overall dps.

[fervent beacon]

Just run mist unit you get daggers and upgrade to 220.

[limber lion]

They're probably just shit at the game.

Only time I lose in overall is in DoS

Screw that dungeon and its 15 mob pulls

[forest beacon]

I still haven't seen the mists dagger this whole expac..

[fervent beacon]

Yeah first run as sin in SL and I beat my boomkin and mage

[burnt star]

For real. Ns + ma + ct opener is just too good

In m+

[limber lion]

It's pretty fun yeah

[fervent beacon]

Took me like 4 runs. At least mist is the easiest key to run.

[burnt star]

Not going back to outlaw ever

[forest beacon]

feels

[fervent beacon]

What's the opening with that btw?

[limber lion]

I swapped from it to Zoldy+Vig/Sub at around +19-+20's

[fervent beacon]

I heard of it so I may want to try it.

[limber lion]

MFD from stealth, open with CT. Then you do Fok - Rup - Fok - Rup - Gar

On 3+ targets that is

On 1-2 targets you MFD - Rupture

[forest beacon]

^^^

[fervent beacon]

With MA legendary since we're taking nightstalker?

[limber lion]

And you use the MA legendary

Yeh

[burnt star]

Watch your dps on 5 mob with this opening

[forest beacon]

MA sucks if your tank chain pulls.. but what can you do

[fervent beacon]

Hmm, may as well try before going back to outlaw for a bit. I like to bounce around to keep it fresh.

[burnt star]

If u stick a little to the back when he chains pull u can restealth

[fervent beacon]

Or just vanish

[burnt star]

Depends how close the last mob dies

[pastel shale]

Subtlety is getting HUGE buffs in 9.1, mark my words

BiS spec in all content

[low girder]

if your tank is chain pulling with sin he's inting the key anyway

tell him to stop that

[pastel shale]

[limber lion]

Glad to hear it.

[fervent beacon]

All they just have to do is bring back the SC

And slight buff ST.

[pastel shale]

bro no then subtlety is good in specific boss fights

[fervent beacon]

Hence the slight buff to ST

[pastel shale]

that's an honor reserved only for everyone else

[forest beacon]

I tried NS CT with zold last night vanish mfd ct when mobs are at about 35% pretty fun same opener

but MA is better with NS CT ??

[stoic needle]

Much better imo

With NS you need another way to get up bleeds quickly for energy

MA does that

Also gives you big vanish ns envenoms

I had a 15k envenom crit from stealth on a pride earlier today

That's like doomblade level

[forest beacon]

I though NS did a snapshot on the duration of dots, i'll give MA a try later

[stoic needle]

It only does for the ct you do from stealth

And your deadly poisons

Shiv to 5cp, vanish, envenom, mfd, envenom, mut, envenom is actually insane priority damage

[forest beacon]

yeah that is what i though. MA huge envenom sounds fun though

[stoic needle]

But also vanish to reapply ns ct is also fun

[burnt star]

Totaly

[balmy condor]

Sadly we vanish into rupture for single target

[forest beacon]

my group isn't pushing high keys, just 15-16's fun and easy so i can play around with talents legos for keys

yeah vanish rupt doesn't feel very rewarding does it

[balmy condor]

I mean that depends who you ask

I think it’s quite good

[limber lion]

Getting a juicy 30s NS rupture sounds pretty good to me.

[forest beacon]

it's definitely good, just don't see the huge envenom damage. which is kinda fun.

thanks for the info, back to work for me.

[carmine token]

what can i do better? Damage is very low here, and I think i dropped dots a couple of times (any WA recommendations for multiple target dot mgmt?) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LfpxAbt9BDCrMVnk/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=13

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[thorny pond]

Bad talents too

[compact plover]

i use neatplates and can see what dots are on what targets

idk if thats what you want tho

[carmine token]

i could prob tweak my plater to do that

[balmy condor]

You’re overcapping cp quite a bit

[burnt star]

Name plates are pretty much the best way to keep track when multi

[balmy condor]

Are you forcing 6 cp or something

[carmine token]

nah it was when i had to get away from boss

i just tossed out poisoned knife sometiomes to keep damage up

[balmy condor]

Like there garrote and mutilate and shiv overcaps

[carmine token]

but yeah it was sloppy

[low girder]

waited waaaaaaaaaaay too long to get snd up

[carmine token]

im sure thats only like 20% of the reason

[limber lion]

You should never lose combo points with garrote.

[balmy condor]

Or mutilate

[limber lion]

Yeh

Seal Fate is fine

And that happens

[balmy condor]

Seal fate overcap is sort unavoidable yeah

[carmine token]

i think sometimes i hit buttons when i dont have enough energy then move to the next, a problem with going from outlaw to sin, the energy regen is vastly diff

[low girder]

this isn't helping matters

you should have bleeds up

before ever hitting envenom

you're losing a ton of energy

[limber lion]

Gar/Rupture should be your #1 priority.

[low girder]

SND too

you keep it up with envenom now, it should be up long before you hit it there

[burnt star]

Your openings is basicly how u set up the pace

And get that energy regen coming

[carmine token]

got it

[limber lion]

Also you're overcapping/wasting 20% energy.

[carmine token]

good advice

[limber lion]

Which is A LOT

Energy cap should be around 1-2%

It's fine to be a little bit higher on 2T because you might cap out during lust whilst having both targets bled.

But 20% is wayyy too high

Not sure if you go afk during intermission after killing goliath or what's up

[burnt star]

More advance stuff in slg heroic would be to keep hitting boss after the goliath is dead in intermission

[carmine token]

How do i check the logs for energy caps?

[limber lion]

Could be that.

[carmine token]

nobody was picking up orbs -_-

[limber lion]

You choose your character, click "Resources"

[carmine token]

yeah im there

[limber lion]

Then you click the button that says "Hitpoints"

And change it to Energy

[carmine token]

ah got it

[burnt star]

Even if boss takes lower damage. Key is just to make sure u dont lose your 5 stack of alacrity

[limber lion]

But the thing is

The boss does take 5% damage

The shield is a 95% damage reduction.

[carmine token]

yeah it does

[burnt star]

Was about to edit haha

I didnt mean litteraly

[carmine token]

in that pull i was actually trying to throw knives at the ranged above

idk what i was doing

a second log to compare would be my sludgefist from yesterday https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jhRKF6pq3nd9Crxy#fight=50&type=damage-done

Im looking at htat one now for energy capping

just to basically compare if its a one pull problem or if im bigger derp than i thought

[limber lion]

It's much better on Sludge.

Still needs some work here and there when it comes to that.

[carmine token]

damn i wasted a shitload of energy on slg

okay gotcha

[uneven plume]

guys

how long from 1-40 venthyr

=[

can i possibly do it before reset?

[carmine token]

spam callings and dungeons and its possible i think

i went from 1-40 in two resets

[uneven plume]

of course its possible it took me 1-40 in two days for necro. im just hyping myself up because of the grind

I dont want to go through it again...

Any tricks or faster shortcuts?

[prisma carbon]

yes
the trick is to play all day

[uneven plume]

[near igloo]

Use Mutilate from stealth, btw

[carmine token]

this was that sludge opener, is this still too slow for snd?

[balmy condor]

Yes

Slice will always be your second gcd

[near igloo]

Stealth -> Mutilate -> SnD

[uneven plume]

arent you supposed to be mutilate then snd on opener

[near igloo]

don't wait for it to cap

[balmy condor]

Yep

[uneven plume]

then mutilate>garrote>rupture>shiv>vend>vanish>mutilate>envenom?

or should i switch something around

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s fine

[near igloo]

I use Envenenom from Vanish (w Doomblade)

[uneven plume]

ill try that aswell

[low girder]

either is fine, with deeper you're only getting 1 envenom in the MA window anyway

[limber lion]

I got it in 2 days by clearing LFR/Normal/Heroic and then doing the covenant campaign.

But it differs for some people and some people get renown locked

for god knows what reasons

[uneven plume]

only thing i can think of us not doing campaign

=/

is*

those are the last 9 pretty much

then 3 per week from daileys

then idk i think the higher renown higher the drop rate?

lower*

[thorny rose]

I’ve heard of people getting renown locked if you stop in the middle of a cov campaign chapter, it bugs until you finish that chapter

like nothing else willl give renown

[uneven plume]

i remember doing 4 dungeons in a row and getting 1 on the 5th

[carmine token]

i got to about 20 renown before i did the campaign

[uneven plume]

then not getting one for an other 2

[near igloo]

I'm at 40 renown with Venthyr but my campaign shows 8/9

[uneven plume]

hmm

[limber lion]

Interesting!

[balmy condor]

I farmed up heirmir in about 8 hours of playtime

Wasn’t bad

[carmine token]

okay so, work on opener and try not to overcap on energy are my big key points, yeah?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Sin is very simple in nature

Getting all your maintenance up early, keeping it up, and hitting everything on cooldown

And you’re pretty much good to go

Just remember to finish on 4 with vigor, 5 with deeper

[carmine token]

got it, thanks for advice!

[balmy condor]

Np

[dawn ivy]

does vendetta not effect flag damage? my raidbots is telling me to flag>rupture>vendetta

[balmy condor]

It does affect flag damage

It’s about equal to running the vend before flag

Doesn’t matter either way

Openers in general aren’t that important as long as you follow the general rules

[low girder]

i vendetta after the 2nd mutilate in the opener

doesn't really matter much

[balmy condor]

Hard-set “first this, then that, then this, followed by that” is pretty irrelevant

You just get the general gist of like “okay snd/gar/rup early, then cooldowns”

And you’re good

[low girder]

am i losing more than like 5 dps doing that

[supple compass]

with the subterfuge opener how come u dont garrote more than once to extend the duration within the sub window

as venth

[heavy skiff]

its not worth it

[low girder]

not worth the energy cost when you only get 1 CP for it now

was only done because of SS in BfA

[round harbor]

misss SS

=[

[supple compass]

ah ok, also are you supposed to have to refresh garrote and rup within vendetta with that opener

[slow marsh]

Yeah it's fine as long as it's not in shiv

[dusk lion]

For dashing scoundrel is it best to put it on a cloak or boots or does it not matter?

[slow marsh]

Boots cuz slg back ilvl

[dusk lion]

Thanks

[carmine token]

okay, this seems better, what can i improve here? :) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XL8pgZ9KBj1C4RFd/#fight=last&type=damage-done

[south totem]

how does crimson tempest works? if there more than 8 mobs can you press it twice to get more application? also does it priotize the nearest targets?

[misty holly]

All I can do is compare it to my own logs. Your deadly poison uptime is higher than rupture or garrote which means they dropped. If you got the mechanic to run out multiple times at just the wrong moment that could happen

but its something to look at

also, for some reason you have way more mutilates than I do, but the same amount of finishers.

are you mutilating at 4cp?

[carmine token]

yeah, if its 4, i mut>finish , if its 5 i finish

im running strategem

[misty holly]

ahh ok, that could be it then. I use vigor

[carmine token]

gotcha

[drifting cosmos]

yea I had a hard time trying outlaw too, things seem to move so much faster

[carmine token]

i started outlaw, and now sin seems much slower haha. i'd prob just play outlaw but getting into M+ groups is a joke, so im learning sin to raid a bit more in my free time (since im 3/10m on main, easier to get into groups)

[misty holly]

you are at 71% for ilevel so its not bad. Thats well above average dude.

[carmine token]

yeah was thinking that too, just was curious if anything major was there. Shiv timing maybe or something. I still need to do heroic sire this week but pugs are a bit terrible for it so i just did shriek with some advice earlier as to maybe build upon it

I will keep practicing :)

[strange python]

do we use Shiv on CD now?

[shy dust]

Yes

[median igloo]

does exacting preparation affect deadly poison?

[hollow escarp]

don't think poison count as weapon enchant

[hardy wind]

is it worth swapping to crimson tempest for heroic sire or just stick with poison bomb? adds only live maybe 8-10 seconds in my current group (P1)

[hollow escarp]

as we have them as buff to player not to item

[median igloo]

ah

[hollow escarp]

not sure how it is for enhancement shaman though

because their weapon buffs are on item

not like ours

[median igloo]

yeah i heard it works with wf

[frosty cedar]

stick with poison bomb

[polar willow]

is shadowgrasp totem actually good or is it a simtrap?

[hollow escarp]

how would it be a simtrap?

[low girder]

it has a range but it's fairly forgiving

not really a simtrap

[balmy condor]

Simtraps

That’s the next word on my hit list

[hollow escarp]

IQD is a simtrap

[balmy condor]

scaling
ambush from stealth
Simtrap

[hollow escarp]

but but

the chinese rogues

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

can you guess what dungeon these were

can you guess what i still dont have

[hollow escarp]

farming Shadowgrasp Totem?

[stoic needle]

I GOT THAT ALREADY

[polar willow]

soz i main hunter and it was a simtrap for mm in 9.0 and i just remember that was due to range

obv not a problem with rogue

[hollow escarp]

I was actually using that on my alt hunter, but a lower ilvl version because I had nothing else

[slow marsh]

What's the deal with Shadowgrasp? Are people just bored and experimenting with trinkets? Is it that hard to get a mythic skulkers?

[hollow escarp]

skulkers is boring

[low girder]

we discovered it's hasted so it's actually a decent trinket

and people hate iqd

i guess

[slow marsh]

Yeah I knew about the new hasted thing

[stoic needle]

we also hate skulkers

[hollow escarp]

I actually like my IQD

didn't knew what substances it releases

can't let it go now

[low girder]

idk why you'd go for it specifically but i guess since IQD is in the same dungeon

maybe people hate life after trying for a phial

[hollow escarp]

I got it randomly

[low girder]

ye i meant shadowgrasp

[hollow escarp]

ahh

I was memeing

because I know oshosi is farming IQD

[low girder]

i should but

ugh

already hitting p3 anyway

soon i can actually farm a mythic trinket

[polar willow]

i got 223 iqd in my first vault 😄

[hollow escarp]

nice

I kinda like when there is no clear bis trinket and we can test and play around with multiple trinkets

there are bis trinkets, but not everybody has access to them

[heavy trail]

190 ilevel now did a +4 was able to out dps some dps like 10 ilevels higher overall and also take the least amount of damage. Starting to enjoy the spec now only if a higher level dagger would drop lol

[hollow escarp]

if nothing drops, you can do the pvp weekly quests and buy the conquest 200 dagger

not sure if the conquest will be enough, but you could play some games t oget that

[polar willow]

i think theyre 900 conq

so youd need to do your daily wins a few times

[hollow escarp]

900 both?

because main hand would be enough for the beginning

[shy dust]

WHO

[shy dust]

nvm proceed

[hollow escarp]

have I upset the broker lords?

[shy dust]

[dawn ivy]

wait that means the 226 shadowgrasp in my bags is good

dammit

[hollow escarp]

yeah, don't disenchant it

IQD is like having PI but gives you crit

[stoic needle]

IQD GAMING

LETS FUCKING GO

[strange python]

Something told me to save iqd but I was an outlaw fixed on remaining to that spec smh

Now of course it’s like almost bis trinket for assassins lol

[frigid kestrel]

Gives you crits????, give you your highest stat

Which 10/10 times for me is Haste, so it’s just like PI

In keys it’s gives me crit tho

[stoic needle]

you have to gear around iqd for it to really shine

get that crit up in your raid set

look at this

almost 20k dps in one pull with NS+MA

[frigid kestrel]

See, but when I change enchants to favor crit my sims 👉🏾 📉

[fleet anchor]

I did 20k dps one pull too. I pressed Skulker's and it crit and it killed the enemy!

[stoic needle]

it can't be that much of a difference

[frigid kestrel]

Ye, that’s M+. My IQD gives me crit in my Key set. My raid set gives me haste

[stoic needle]

you're venthyr right?

[frigid kestrel]

Na, in my raid set Mast, Vers, and Crit stat weights are all at .75

Tied, it’s legit beautiful

[frigid kestrel]

Ye

[stoic needle]

how much crit do you have? cuz for me crit and haste are tied, mastery and vers noticeably lower

and i have like 30% crit

[frigid kestrel]

Same

[stoic needle]

and ~18% haste

[frigid kestrel]

Let me get off the shitter and check. Give me 3 minutes. I’m not a savage who doesn’t wash his hands

[fleet anchor]

IQD doesn't give you your best stat by default though

Only during lust

Otherwise it's 50/50 between your two highest stats

[stoic needle]

yup

[frigid kestrel]

Uhhh I thought it was always your highest stat

Must have read it wrong

[fleet anchor]

No only when lust is active

[frigid kestrel]

Ahh

Gotcha

[fleet anchor]

I think it'd be really hard to make a raid set that had higher crit than haste these days but I dunno 😦

[frigid kestrel]

Yup

[stoic needle]

maybe i'm lucky then

[fleet anchor]

I have like.. 350 more Haste Rating than Crit

With full Crit gems 🤣

[stoic needle]

i have 717 crit 596 haste

[shy dust]

I have more crit than haste

[shy dust]

For my raid set

Wasn’t too bad

[stoic needle]

interestingly my weights aren't what i thought

[shy dust]

And that’s with the inerva ring

Which is a massive amount of haste

[stoic needle]

nearly 32% lol

hmm wait that sim was with theotar

[fleet anchor]

I have Inerva+Sire ring lol

That's like 75% of my Crit budget right there 😄

[stoic needle]

yeah i have the bloodoath ring and arachnid cipher ring

both huge crit and haste

[frigid kestrel]

Shit i lied

That must have been my last weeks sims before i got new gear

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hVKcj7wdaZsbMFDsz3DczY

660 Crit and 657 Haste currently

Just pressed IQD and got Haste

So yea it random between top two

Learn something new everyday

[balmy condor]

Yep

Out of lust it’s random top 2

In lust it’s always top

[uneven plume]

When do we reapply garrote on target? How many seconds

Running ma talent

[stoic needle]

5.4

[strange python]

should i even bother using iqd with 950 haste

[odd spire]

which stats should i put on doomblade

[balmy condor]

Haste crit

[odd spire]

thanks

[cerulean raft]

hey guys, i have problems getting good logs on hunter myth. Can someone have a look at my logs? Is it my dot Uptime or are there any other tricks i didnt get? 🙂 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CXVxALwTbapjh76M#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=12

[balmy condor]

Your uptimes are definitely a problem

Slice should be 99%

Rupture and garrote should be 95%+

On huntsman specifically, you weren’t dotting the dogs very effectively, and you let dots drop on huntsman at the same time

[vestal wren]

is there a reason to use vendetta 3rd gcd? (from the log)

[balmy condor]

The other problem is you’re just not vanishing

[balmy condor]

That’s probably less of an issue tbh

But there’s like

First vanish at 1:30

And then another at 5 min

Should always be syncing vanish/vend

[gloomy fern]

vendetta third gcd feels pretty nice without lust

[vestal wren]

is using skulkers after vendetta a big isssue?

[balmy condor]

If it didn’t miss a cast, nah

Vendetta is whitelisted

So trinkets are whatever

Probably not great practice to wait 30 seconds to pop a trinket

Lot of weird decisions for sure though

[cerulean raft]

no not really. normally i want to cast it before first evis

how am i supposed to open the fight? i start dotting hunter and add there. is that right?

[balmy condor]

Yeah you always start with snd, and then spread dots

Envenom to fill

[cerulean raft]

do i delay vendetta and covenant then?

[balmy condor]

No

You just cd/bleed target 1, and bleed target 2

[vestal wren]

my thought was, that hence the log has extended downtimes (up to 2 sec between casts in the beginning) it wouldn't make a lot of sense to delay a trinket use.
The trinket has a 1,5 minute cd and is used 3 times over the entire fight (5,5 minute fight)
Unless the timing is rly bad it could be used 4 times without a problem

[cerulean raft]

yeah, still practising fluent rota. Works better if there just one target rn >.<

[balmy condor]

I highly suggest practicing on a dummy

Sin is mostly maintenance

[cerulean raft]

yeah i know man 😄 it a matter of time though^^

[balmy condor]

So you can easily get the hang of it by just slapping a while

[vestal wren]

displaying dots noticably on your nameplates is also a very big help to keep track of your bleeds

[balmy condor]

Agreed

[cerulean raft]

thanks for lookin at it guys 🙂

definitly need to train the opener. sadly we also lacked enough dks to avoid running around to the shades

[ebon thorn]

@balmy condor can u rate my tmog

[storm hedge]

On huntsman could it be worth it to go with the execute legendary? Since you're basicly getting 4 executes?

[balmy condor]

Amount of executes is not important, it’s the time spent

Doomblade is still better on 2 target

[balmy condor]

I guess

[misty holly]

omg is that a thing we can request?

I need to get to work.

[ebon thorn]

Whispyr is very helpful in every aspect of rogue

[odd spire]

Weird question here. Am I supposed to be getting Broadside sometimes?

[balmy condor]

No

I would get rid of cto though

That conduit is pretty awful for sin

[odd spire]

ohh

thats why

thanks

[balmy condor]

Np

[odd spire]

keep forgetting about conduits

which conduit should i be running?

[balmy condor]

Ls on venth, sf on necro, wps/lp/pk otherwise

[odd spire]

Thanks

[balmy condor]

Np

[eager abyss]

Hi, we are running fire/ret/rogue, and we lack dmg, gear/play issue aswell but am I better going assa or getting my outlaw up to speed? Feel like they beat me on both aoe and st tho so not sure D:

[balmy condor]

That’ll happen

Outlaw is usually the play for m+

Sin is playable

But you shouldn’t beat a fire mage ever

[fallen arch]

single target you can

as sin rogue

Fire mage is more bursty tho, and way more (uncapped) aoe

[eager abyss]

ye I stand no chance on aoe when he combusts, but he does really well st aswell

[balmy condor]

Usually even fights are short enough for the mage to snag a win as well

[fallen arch]

On Tyr weeks and in raid, my sin rogue beats my mage almost every ST fight

The longer the fight, the better assassination gets I feel

[eager abyss]

Ye I tend to almost catch up on prolonged fights

[slow marsh]

I mean it doesn't really matter if you're just doing 15s for weekly but if you're pushing you want to be outlaw for the cc and aoe for sure

I routinely get 1st overall in pugs for 14/15 for vaults and generally tie/just under when I play with guildmates which is usually DK + destro lock or hunter lock

[sacred isle]

For the cc 🤦‍♂️

[eager abyss]

Ah neat 🙂

[slow marsh]

outlaw gets gouge?

[sacred isle]

Its not something you go outlaw for.

[slow marsh]

Which is effectively another kick

No not specifically but it's part of the reason why its better for pushing high keys lol

[sacred isle]

You really should never need to solo prio interupts as a rogue and gouge isnt greatly used in high keys if you check pushers

[slow marsh]

k

[sacred isle]

Its a nice to have thing. But if your team fails prio interupts its not the rogue not having gouge fault

[fair geyser]

Outlaw is such a shit spec to play

Casino spec

[mystic island]

how bad is necrolord for assass?

[willow eagle]

Pretty good for multi target

Falls behind venthyr on st

[mystic island]

even with zoldyck?

[willow eagle]

Don't think zoldyck changes anything really

[mystic island]

so if i were to choose necrolord

which soul bind would be best?

emeni or the bonesmith?

[grim shuttle]

You can sim what would be the best for your own dps

[frail fossil]

it's rly good

u go bonesmith

for me necro sims like 100 dps under venthyr

and is better in any 2 or more targets scenario

[brisk forge]

For pure m+ necro is the best conve, but more stuff to do so "easier" to mess things up but tker like few min to get it right 😄

Heirmir for sure

[frail fossil]

i mean in ST necro is rly easy it's when u have to manage 3+ dots that it becomes harder

[royal lantern]

for st you just use it as a generator

not really "hard" too use

aoe is different, but st its a no-brainer

doesnt matter, venthyr gang o/

[hollow escarp]

grats

[oak cypress]

nadija is the soulbind we wanna go for Venthyr right?

[hollow escarp]

for single target, yes

[oak cypress]

theotar for MT then?

[limber lion]

For M+ generally yeh

[hollow escarp]

tea time trait

[limber lion]

Usually you just run Nadja for every boss in CN

[limber lion]

Yep, Wasteland

[oak cypress]

ok sweet, thank you

[hollow escarp]

I haven't used Theotar in Nathria that much

only when I forgot to respec

guess it should be good on cleave fights

[compact pumice]

Using NS+MA in M+ how do you use vanish on ST? I figure I open the fight with MFD+Rupt for the empowered rupt but later vanish during a shiv window for an empowered Envenom to be better, no? Like compared to refreshing the empowered rupture.

[hollow escarp]

I vanish at full CP and apply a Rupture

it's interesting that Rupture tooltip doesn't change in stealth

but Envenom does

[stoic needle]

I think you should reapply Rupture and then MfD evenom

Best of both worlds

But if it's a pride or something that needs to die asap you can double evenom

[hollow escarp]

or vanish, rupture, mut, envenom, mfd, envenom

all in MA window

[limber lion]

Adding a Shiv before the Vanish as well for big deepe

Deeps

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

Vanish / Rup is still more damage if the mob lives the duration

Which is like 30s when used in pandemic

Quite a long time tbf

[mellow pier]

Is it just a shlands thing that your crit % change is hidden for MA?

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

on tyranical it's probably the play to do after 20+ sec in the fight

[mellow pier]

I remember it doing it in bfa and legion

[compact pumice]

I think I need to reprogram myself then to save the refresh of Rupture to inside the shiv

[limber lion]

Might be a bit of a mindfuck because you usually wanna reapply bleeds before Shiv.

[hollow escarp]

you already get 2 envenoms in MA+shiv window with Elaborate planning up

so it's not bad to rupture after shiv and vanish

[mellow pier]

Just rupture when u need to and everything will be fine 99% of the time lol

[limber lion]

Yup

[mellow pier]

It’s not that complicated

[compact pumice]

But here you maximize the NS and MA window with a Shiv

[limber lion]

We're talking about NS rupture though

Which is different @mellow pier

[stoic needle]

Does sbs snapshot ns?

[limber lion]

No.

[mellow pier]

Oh m+

[stoic needle]

Lame

[mellow pier]

:/

[hollow escarp]

I tried NS on a sun king pull

don't recommend

[mellow pier]

Just get PI

And do ST

Hahaha

[hollow escarp]

you know what's the worst feeling in M+? getting PI and still doing less damage than the other players

[mellow pier]

True

[hollow escarp]

it may or may have not happened to me

[mellow pier]

Honestly I think after dk we should get on shriekwing

Lines up perfect

Everything off cd

[stoic needle]

Doesn't happen to me

[hollow escarp]

2nd PI, yeah

[compact pumice]

Just pick some damage category and insist that it matters the most, like damage to pride or damage to boss.

[hollow escarp]

3rd PI on Sludge for rogues

[stoic needle]

I got pi in ardenweald huge pull in dos yesterday

[mellow pier]

Idk if that PI sheet counts for others not having cds

[stoic needle]

Absolutely insane

[north basin]

how teatime works? just 500 mastery once per minute?

[hollow escarp]

it's vers

[mellow pier]

But on 2nd phase shriekwing

[hollow escarp]

6% vers to you

[mellow pier]

I go from like 7th to top 3

[hollow escarp]

3% to others

[stoic needle]

No it doesn't, that's why the sheet is a little flawed

[mellow pier]

Without PI

[north basin]

wait and first skill

in tree

how does it work

[stoic needle]

It assumes you give pi on cd to the respective class regardless of whether their CDs are up or not

[mellow pier]

Yeah it’s flawed then

[hollow escarp]

getting PI without CDs is so miserable

[mellow pier]

I still think DK with army and hunter with spirits

But if we get it during our cds

It’s really really strong

[stoic needle]

It should be 'dps gain with CDs up', 'dps gain with no CDs', 'overall 5min dps gain'

[limber lion]

You give Vers to your party when you press flag, so every 1.5mins

[mellow pier]

We also benefit a lot without cds

Cause of our dmg

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[limber lion]

Incorrect

[hollow escarp]

on Xymox I started pressing Vendetta on CD instead of lining with lust, and I still got good damage there

[stoic needle]

Yuh it does

[limber lion]

The sheet gives PI with the best value

[stoic needle]

It's literally just a 5min sim with pi

[limber lion]

Meaning that it'll delay it if it syncs better

The sheet literally says

[hollow escarp]

91 parse, vendetta outside lust

[limber lion]

That it gives the PI to get most value out of them

[compact pumice]

I mean, to be the highest benefit for the raid team a PI might be on several different people, like UH DK at start on Army and then Rogue on second 2 mins in on vendetta and then maybe PI on a mage during combust for an add phase or something.

[hollow escarp]

it's probably because I got a 3rd vendetta

[hollow escarp]

I think with Zoldyck we have a better argument to get PI in execute phase with CDs

[limber lion]

I've not looked at the sims on the sheet myself, just preaching what the sheet said

But the sheet is incredibly flawed

[compact pumice]

I guess on Sire or M+

[limber lion]

Would not look at it

Rather do a sim where everyone gets 1 PI during the encounter at the best possible time

Instead of 3 whenever

[hollow escarp]

I'm thinking about Sludgefist as well but I'm not that familiar with the fight to understand how much dps we lose on the other pillars without Doomblade

[limber lion]

But yeh, I could be wrong. Just assumed the sims were done with proper setting up because it says so in the sheet. But who knows

[stoic needle]

Hmm it says "with pi used optimally" but the sim links are dead so I can't see what that actually means

[hollow escarp]

were people memeing that some class TCs inted the sims just to make blizzard devs ignore some broken stuff?

I've heard this about SP, but it might be a meme

[fathom swift]

unlikely

[low girder]

doesn't the sheet also insist PI is best on spriests\

[fathom swift]

most of the time sims get inted cause people dont bother optimizing them not intentionally to hide stuff

[hollow escarp]

ohk

[stoic needle]

Its not quite directly inting, but some classes have really bad apls

Like warlocks

[stoic needle]

And yeah spriest is designed to get their own pi

[sullen pagoda]

@hollow escarp not lusting on pull artificer

weirdChamp

[hollow escarp]

I know dude, I've been asking for weeks, now we extending

[fathom swift]

on stuff like stack rankings havoc profiles are also very unoptimized relative to other specs

[hollow escarp]

I guess 91 parse with lust outside CDs is good enough

pretty sure I got no mechanics

[hollow escarp]

in the current state of Spriest, I think that is true

they are insane

[stoic needle]

Koji writes the havoc apl so I kinda doubt that

[hollow escarp]

I think he meant lock havoc

[sullen pagoda]

spriest is on such a chopping block its not even funny

[stoic needle]

Ohhh

[sullen pagoda]

feelsbad for them becoming op after prog is over

[hollow escarp]

yeah

same story for sin rogues though

not quite OP yet though

[quiet valley]

Yeah was about to say

[stoic needle]

Are they though

[quiet valley]

Buff came same day we killed sire

[sullen pagoda]

rogue is safe imo, like we do high ST but not so far ahead of rest like spriest

[stoic needle]

We don't really know until 9.1

[sullen pagoda]

like spriests legit almost reaching 8k dps p3 sire

[fathom swift]

the profiles, not the apl

[hollow escarp]

I also like that Limit Max is praising sin rogues a lot lately, it's gonna help a lot for community perception on our spec

some raid leaders follow him religiously

[stoic needle]

Blizzard could just be smoking crack and leave them unnerfed

[fathom swift]

i meant dh havoc not lock havoc but im talking about the profiles that exist on the stack ranking, not apl issues

[hollow escarp]

yeah, sorry for confusion

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's true the t26 rogue profile was still kyrian for a while

And the current one could be 80 dps better with one gem change and Iqd over dreadfire

For rogue

[sullen pagoda]

biggest spriest problem is their ST is looked at by default with PI so if they are strong WITH PI when they get balanced out PI might just go on someone else on prog so they just fall even further behind

its such a double edged sword its not even funny

[compact pumice]

They should make the double pi legendary baseline

[hollow escarp]

it will mess with their CDs though

imagine playing a spec where you hold your cds for somebody else

[low girder]

i'd rather they just make it self only at this point

[hollow escarp]

^

[sullen pagoda]

pretty sure their cds are all over the place already @hollow escarp cuz of nightfae being bis

[hollow escarp]

they added all this shit to attract classic players to retail

[compact pumice]

It will just go on a class where everything lines up about equal, or where it doesn't matter, and they still get high benefit.

Assass is a good target whenever tbh

[storm hedge]

How much do we gain from PI rn?

[low girder]

that or they make it % damage and the damage gets added to the priest

obv that wouldn't show up in sims

but it would everywhere else

[sullen pagoda]

eh idk about assa being good target, have there been any sims since assa changes with 7.0.5

[hollow escarp]

imagine if chaos brand damage was added to the DH meters

[sullen pagoda]

thats actually such a good example, spriest simming with PI is like DH simming with chaos brand dmg as his own

[stoic needle]

The latest version of the sheet has us as the 5th best

[low girder]

the sheet is technically with the changes, it was just a month ago

[stoic needle]

Post 9.0.5

[low girder]

and using defaults

[sullen pagoda]

can you link sheet please?

[low girder]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/113kqcqy9ai37c8EBUJK-sWYciqQ9Tb7ctmCy_boDKdg/

idk where you see 5th though

unless there's another sheet

[stoic needle]

Oh I guess I misremembered

[hollow escarp]

sin is 2nd after arcane mage?

wtf

[sullen pagoda]

12th pepehands

[hollow escarp]

nvm

[low girder]

sin sim timed out

feelsbad

[hollow escarp]

but wait

do you want dps gain or max dps?

[sullen pagoda]

but thing to also consider is usually when giving someone else PI on prog its about that 1 usage to push the timers

and at that unholy blows everything else out of the water

[stoic needle]

Delete unholy

[compact pumice]

None of the sims linked work??

[stoic needle]

Yeah they timed out because they're old

[low girder]

the priest non-PI one does

[sullen pagoda]

@compact pumice probably because of new blizzard API rule they cant save raidbot sims for more than 2 weeks or something

[low girder]

i didn't try the others except sin

but yeah raidbots removes sims older than 30d

[burnt star]

the thing with that datasheet, its a simulation if the players gets all pi. and over a long duration. like someone said.. it would be more optimal to adjust sim with cd. but that overcomplicate the data

on pull. dk gains the highest

(cause army)

but then drops until next army usage

i would be curious to see if its even better then a priest pi himself vs a dk with army. on that short window

but data didnt analyse that

[sullen pagoda]

yeah thats where strength of PI comes from on prog

[low girder]

not only that but it also requires APL knowledge for every spec, which is probably out of possibility for the guy maintaining it

[hollow escarp]

but tbf, these sims only matter for prog

because if you wanna parse, you want PI

regardless

[burnt star]

oh. of course

[sullen pagoda]

eh for our class its possible without

[burnt star]

it is simply because we lack parse

[sullen pagoda]

classes like dk / mage its so much more inflated by PI parses

[gusty mirage]

And then you get judged by Kojack when you do

[burnt star]

get over 10k parse.. and lot more people with pi