assassination

[fallen arch]

Thank you bro

[gusty leaf]

So at 3 cp with vigor i would always shiv envenom correct? Wouldnt want to muti for 1 cp?

Yes ceverion really appreciate the help

[limber lion]

Happy to help

[limber lion]

Yes.

[gloomy fern]

yes, very helpful for a 4/10M raider like myself who got private logs and bought CE

[gusty leaf]

Great! Thanks a lot have a lovely day

oh may i ask 1 more thing?

on ST, do I always want Rupture and Crimson tempest to be 5CP or does the same rule with no mutilate at 4 cp (with vigor) apply?

[pastel hatch]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[limber lion]

You use those 2 finishers and Envenom on max-1 combo points.

Meaning 5-6 for DS or 4-5 for Vigor.

The only finishers where you don't necessarily always want to use at max cp are Kidney Shot (which you only use in PvP and M+) and Slice n Dice (which you use at 2-4cp in the beginning and never after that)

[gusty leaf]

thanks ceverion that makes a lot of sense

[heavy trail]

So I should put haste/vers on my zolds when I make it? Ice veins and wowhead both suggest crit / haste

[steel geyser]

Haste crit

[heavy trail]

Thanks.

[undone eagle]

m+ you want poisonoed katar or Lethal poisions?

[limber lion]

Either is fine, you should sim it using DungeonSlice in Raidbots

If you're Venth or Necro, you'd go with Lashing Scars/Sudden Fractures, respectively.

[heavy trail]

I got lucky on the world boss and got a 200 lashing hits pretty hard at 160 ilevel 🙂

[undone eagle]

lel world boss

just hit him once and avoid dmg

ez kill

[limber lion]

You don't even need to avoid damage, you get rewards even if you're dead

[limber lion]

Grats!

[undone eagle]

ye but if he wanna skip reapairing gear hehe

[heavy trail]

I meant I got the conduit from it lol...

[undone eagle]

gz

[heavy trail]

Some guys are loot machines lol they defy logic.... helm drops.. i ask the DH can i grab that (he's 216) and he doesn't respond... I get a pair of pants and all of a sudden he's spamming me for the pants and I told him the are soulbound, andhe says well if you can't trade em not giving you the helm...lol zomg

[thorny pond]

Karma is a bitch. He'll end up being a pug boy forever. Don't sweat it

[heavy trail]

I guess I figure that everyone "should" be like me which is generally It's cool when everyone improves. I am proactive with my gear I don't need. Oh well guess some people suck haha. No big deal though.

[grand ridge]

Try to find a guild...group finder is so toxic

I don't think I'd play if I had to use group finder for everything

[carmine token]

Best skills to hit with MA out of stealth? I was running subterfuge as well and found I wasn't quite sure if I should dot, try for two ambushes and then finisher or lashing since it sometimes lined up

Talking about for ST

[pastel shale]

Mut for ST unless you're doing the NS M+ build

[limber lion]

Muti and Envenoms outside of the opener*

On opener you do Muti - SnD - Muti

[carmine token]

Mut over ambush??

[limber lion]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[carmine token]

Oh damn. That's something I would not have figured

[limber lion]

Most people don't, don't worry.

[carmine token]

Well I was messing that up all night haha. Found a couple decent heroic pugs last night and killed up to slg

[limber lion]

It's a really common question, that's why we have the command for it :p

[carmine token]

Makes sense

I obviously was looking at damage and cp

Without understanding the crit part fully

[limber lion]

Yep, just looking at the damage Ambush does more

But there's a lot of variables that makes mutilate the better choice.

[carmine token]

Got it. I actually just kept doing ambush>mut>envenom out of stealth and thinking that I was dumb for not doing double ambush

Coming from outlaw it still messed me up to have all my stealth buttons up for an extra few seconds

[limber lion]

Yep. Muti - Muti - Env would be fine if you play Deeper Strata and you start from 0 CP outside of the opener.

[carmine token]

With subterfuge

[visual prairie]

well if you're running subterfuge you should be garottititng

[limber lion]

But on opener you always do Muti Snd Muti

[visual prairie]

if you can still do stealth buttons after open, that's subterfuge, right?

[limber lion]

I personally don't use stealth bars so it's the same keys and actions whether or not I'm in stealth.

[carmine token]

Yeah was running dstrat. Should I hit garot into ambush into envenom then?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[limber lion]

No.

[carmine token]

Sorry I meant muti

[limber lion]

I said the opener twice already.

Muti - Slice And Dice - Muti - Garrote

[carmine token]

I was wondering what the garot advice was

[limber lion]

Every time.

[gusty mirage]

I think the only thing dif about my stealth bars is pick pocket is on there

Gotta get those sick enemy disguises mid combat

[limber lion]

[quiet valley]

If you play subterfuge you want to get an empowered garotte in the opener/vanish window

[gusty mirage]

An entire expansion of playing subterfuge I got frustrated with pushing the wrong thing so my stealth bar was literally every same button in the same spot minus pickpocket

[limber lion]

Yep. I hate stealth bars.

They're laggy as well

Especially noticeable as Sub

[gusty mirage]

I’ve been too lazy to disable it, going on 2 years now

[rotund oak]

What about the necrolord sbs in the opener?Is it wise to muti-snd-muti-sbs(maybe twice)-rupture and start the new circle with garrote?Mutilate is alot of energy and sbs twice is 3 cps guaranteed

[limber lion]

You can do muti snd muti gar sbs rup

[gusty mirage]

You want the garrote up too for energy then

[limber lion]

You want the garrote up on the enemy asap

[gusty mirage]

Regen

[rotund oak]

though so,cheers

thx alot

[carmine token]

Okay cool! Thanks for the advice I think I will keep the sin going for raids. It is less to manage and less rng than outlaw and I find it pretty fun. Since it's basically impossible to get into any m+ groups with low io, at least I can pug raid with aotc lol. So may as well learn sin to play it well

[limber lion]

The reason we don't use garrote as the first gcd is because it would be a waste of MA

[quiet valley]

Dude my fkn stealth bars... i have ambush (outside stealth) and cheap shot (in stealth) on the same button. The amount of times i brainfart a cheapshot in sepsis proc when i get blindside

[limber lion]

But if we didn't play with MA, it would be our first gcd.

[quiet valley]

Did like 3 cheapshots on our first Sire M kill

[gusty mirage]

Sin’s a lot of fun and it’s always good to be up to date with all the specs because tuning can send them any which way

[limber lion]

For sure, good luck! If you ever need more help, feel free to jump in here and we'll help you out.

[gusty mirage]

And we have some super smart people around here who are always willing to answer questions

[carmine token]

Thanks fam

[velvet escarp]

hey all, in the pins it says that trinkets aren't affected by spec mechanics. in relation to the opener, do we use trinket after we finish the first shiv window then? or maybe just before the first shiv?

[limber lion]

It literally doesn't matter. Trinkets are not on the gcd.

At least most of them aren't.

The only ones you would have to think about usinh differently are the ones that give you stats

Like IQD, Battery etc.

[quiet valley]

Unless you have a trinket with stat gain on use or saving for a specific point, click it on cd

[visual prairie]

or if you're unlucky like me and are still using an on use aoe trinket even in single target, if there is an aoe phase soon, you might hold it

[quiet valley]

Thats rough

[velvet escarp]

ok thanks all

[limber lion]

Which trinket

[visual prairie]

i only started playing rogue again after 9.0.5

the grim reaper one

whatever it's called

scythe hits shit behind hte target

[limber lion]

Right

Definitely better choices out there, gotta get that dungeon grind on to get better trinkets :p

I grinded out a Phial and IQD myself as well

And they're my bis trinkets currently even at 220 ilvl

[pastel shale]

Aoe scythe is cool though

[odd kiln]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[velvet escarp]

at max-2 combo points, is it better to mutilate -> shiv (overcap 1) -> envenom (with 5CP)?, or shiv -> envenom with 4 CP?

asking cuz the opener says mutilate up to 4+ CP before shiv. or does this overcapping only apply because of the MA window?

[limber lion]

Shiv - Envenom.

You finish at max-1 or max.

Meaning that at 3combo points (when playing with Vigor), your Shiv would put you at 4-5 combo points, not losing any combo points

and allowing you to finish properly.

[velvet escarp]

do we also do this even if we vanish just before?

[limber lion]

Also which opener/guide says this?

Because it's incorrect.

[velvet escarp]

assuming i take MA. it's the Icy Veins one

[limber lion]

I mean you press Shiv on cooldown

And your opener in the beginning is Muti - Snd - Muti - Garrote - Flag - Rupture - Shiv

Where you Shiv at 0 cp

[limber lion]

Can you link that?

[velvet escarp]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

i was under the impression that i should always build up CP first so that when i enter a shiv window i can envenom immediately

[limber lion]

That doesn't really matter.

What matters is getting as many casts of Shiv as possible

The sim literally uses Shiv on 0cp

Building CP for 2-4s everytime will eventually cause you to lose a cast.

[velvet escarp]

ohh i see, thanks

[dry copper]

right, but planning for a shiv in the next 10s or so -- get near capped energy & CP would be higher dps or no?

(obvi wasting energy is a dps loss, but pooling for a shiv window is value?)

[velvet escarp]

thats what ive been practising

[limber lion]

Yes, you still want to pool energy/combo points BEFORE Shiv comes off cooldown

But when it's off cooldown, you press it

[steep reef]

gm assassination gamers today is the day I will become powerful

[limber lion]

Regardless of whether or not you have energy/cp ready

[dry copper]

👍 just wanted to make sure that old sin habits were still good

[prisma perch]

a question, in the hungering fight do we use CoS only at the end of the Consume Cast?

to minmax I mean instead of running out

[limber lion]

No, you can use it when there's less than 5 seconds left.

Meaning that you have to tank the first hit/tick, but you can use it shortly after.

[prisma perch]

I see thanks 🙂

[limber lion]

No problem.

[carmine token]

for SLG (h), I was keeping dots up on both main target and the stoneboi, and then primarily focusing down the gargoyle. That's essentially how i should be handling 2 target fights right? Same thing for sire I'm guessing, dot up both sword and sire, and probably just focus them, put garrot's up on the adds during add phase (p2) and spec into crimson to use during those add phases but otherwise just keep dots on both, and damage sire, ehhh

[limber lion]

Yeh pretty much. Dot everything up with garrotes/ruptures and pump into one target.

[olive tendon]

@limber lion I actually disagree. IMO it's better to use Shiv with pool of energy and Envenom ready. You say that if you wait these 2 globals for CP you will eventually lose your Shiv CD and you're of course right. The thing is if you don't do this - every Shiv you will lose one Envenom which is much worse (I think).

[limber lion]

But... that's not what I'm saying though.

Read the other comments.

You always pool energy/CP for Shiv, except in the opener.

[stoic needle]

It's not actually worse to only get 1 envenom in shiv than to miss a shiv cast entirely

of envenoms in shiv isn't important in SL like it may have been in bfa

[limber lion]

You also don't do the pooling when your Shiv is already off cd

You do the pooling BEFORE.

You think 10-15s ahead and plan your pooling and bleed reapplying beforehand

[olive tendon]

Yes, of course.

[limber lion]

And when Shiv comes off CD, you slam it.

[dry copper]

The debate around when to shiv comes to: "If I fucked up 10s ago, what is better to do now in light of that fuckup"?

[weak horizon]

honestly unless you're using shiv with near 0 energy and 0 combo points you're almost always going to get 2 envenoms

[limber lion]

There is no debate about Shiv.

The rule is: Always use Shiv on CD.

Even if you're at 0 energy and 0 cp, you slam Shiv.

[olive tendon]

But I get 3 with Vigor.

Sometimes even with Deeper Stratagem.

[dry copper]

yes, and i'm saying that people are arguing about that because they've already fucked up. The solution is hit it always, and don't fuckup 10s before your shiv.

[compact pumice]

Even if you have to rupture inside shiv and don't even get an envenom off due to mechanics, putting it on CD was still the right move

[limber lion]

Yeah true, but even if you do fuck up, you still slam it.

It's not a complicated spell.

Shiv isn't just to buff your Envenom damage as well

[weak horizon]

I believe the way the APL is written is pretty much do you have rupture on the target? if so, slam shiv

[limber lion]

It buffs your poisons, which are a large part of your damage as well.

[dull cloak]

but when your shiv gets parried sadge

[weak horizon]

yeah, that's heartbreaking

[compact pumice]

Tank's fault for aiming the boss at you!

[weak horizon]

if=dot.rupture.ticking&(!cooldown.sepsis.ready|cooldown.vendetta.remains>12)|dot.sepsis.ticking", "Shiv if we are about to Envenom, and attempt to sync with Sepsis final hit if we won't waste more than half the cooldown.

That's the logic SIMC uses for casting shiv.

althuogh if you're using tiny toxic blades i believe it's different and you use it like a builder

[wary ice]

TTB shouldnt change the usecase at all

[limber lion]

You literally press it on cooldown

There's not much to it.

[wary ice]

maybe it gets prio over 2nd envenom in MA window

[supple compass]

This might be a dumb question but why is flagg where it is in the opener

[wary ice]

thats a big maybe

[limber lion]

Before rupture

Muti - Snd - Muti - Gar - Flag - Rup

Let me take a few pictures hereto show you how the sim uses Shiv

[weak horizon]

ah, sorry I was reading the APL for outlaw and sub

[weak horizon]

yeah, tiny toxic blades doesn't affect apl for assassination

[limber lion]

Notice how Shiv is used between 2 mutilates and at 1:00

Same thing here, except it's 25s later (On CD)

Same thing here, except it's using Rupture after and not Envenom.

[weak horizon]

oh shit, a rupture in a shiv window?

[limber lion]

Notice, it's still exactly 25s

[weak horizon]

i thought that was illegal

[limber lion]

It's literally using Shiv every 25s

With no exceptions

[fallen current]

as quick as it can

[limber lion]

Even if you have to reapply ruptures

[fallen current]

slam that button

[limber lion]

Of if it's between mutilates

Or before finisher

Nothing matters

Except that if it's on cooldown

You press it.

[icy crater]

what if you're max cp

[limber lion]

Here's a cringe one for you

[weak horizon]

press it anyways

[limber lion]

The sim uses Envenom before pressing Shiv and Vanish

[icy crater]

personally i press shiv if im max cp and its coming up right before I'm going to envenom

[weak horizon]

yeah, shiv at max cp

well shiv on cd really

[limber lion]

Yeah, it's not that complicated.

[weak horizon]

unless you don't have rupture ticking according to the apl?

[limber lion]

Bleeds take priority

[hollow escarp]

I've seen a top 10 Mythic parse opening with Ambush

[limber lion]

I've seen plenty of those.

They're pretty cringe.

[hollow escarp]

chinese tech

[limber lion]

It was the big hype in 9.0

With Peen doing it on every boss

[weak horizon]

oh, about the APL, you ambush from a vanish if you have an ambush proc?

i would have assumed you mut because of the crit from MA

[limber lion]

Yes

[plucky sluice]

try getting dagger... game rly trolling me... and thats not all runs.. 😦

[limber lion]

Because if you use Muti, it means you don't have a chance to get a new Blindside proc

You always use Ambush instead of Muti if you have a proc

[solar hare]

What the fuck is this

[limber lion]

Because everytime you Muti, you have a chance to get a blindside proc

[limber lion]

[solar hare]

Im not a sin connoisseur but that

That is

[hollow escarp]

the thing is you don't lose that much dps even if you have a "wrong" opener

it's just that they got lucky with the rest

[icy crater]

the slugefist opener is so weird

I just mash shit

[solar hare]

He envenomed twice before garrote or rupture

[limber lion]

But it's the normal opener if you do pull/2/4

[fallen current]

i feel that pain

[solar hare]

@limber lion dont tell me hes playing doomblade

[icy crater]

2mins are too late for pillar if you do normal opener

[limber lion]

That's the sim.

[icy crater]

at least for me running DS

[stoic needle]

Idk on sludge you use vendetta and vanish asap

[limber lion]

??

[cursive roost]

Running lower keys would be a LOT faster and you can just upgrade with valor.

[limber lion]

They're literally not.

[stoic needle]

Yes they are

[hollow escarp]

wait a minute, rank 1 sludge is with Ambush opener

[solar hare]

i c

[icy crater]

they literally are

[hollow escarp]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YrN7zkg8ZnBmcqb2#fight=4&type=casts&source=6&view=timeline

[stoic needle]

Ive spent all week doing sludgefist prog I think I'd know

[limber lion]

They're not though

[stoic needle]

If you do the normal opener vendetta and vanish come up in the middle of the pillar instead of before

[icy crater]

^

[plucky sluice]

i just have 3100 valor points now and on season maximum... so for 2 daggers at 210 (+15) i need 3k valor points 😦

[solar hare]

OH IM AN IDIOT IGNORE ME, literally thought it was an opener, didnt look at time stamps

Holy shit

[stoic needle]

All of the top parses vendetta on their 2nd gcd you can go look

[solar hare]

Im blocking myself

[icy crater]

maybe it changed with the nerfs?

if you did pre nerf? idk

[stoic needle]

They didn't change his energy generation

[burnt star]

2nd pillar is at 2:04

but u have your 2min for 4th no mather what

[stoic needle]

You have to do like mut > vend > snd > mut > flag > rup > gar > vanish > env

[limber lion]

Well, yeah okay true. If you do the one that the sim suggests, then you're fucked

[stoic needle]

Otherwise vanish and vend will be late

[limber lion]

I do Muti - Snd - Muti - Vend - Gar

And it's fine

[burnt star]

^

i did that too

and was always fine

but i also play vigor/ep

for sludge

[limber lion]

Also you can use Vanish literally like 15s later

12*

And it's still fine

Because you don't need to press them both at the same time

[stoic needle]

I don't think the talents really affect it, it's about the timing of the pillars

[limber lion]

No, they definitely do not

The opener is the same for both talent combos (EP/Vig and BS/DS)

[burnt star]

its affecting him though

[icy crater]

vigor might affect it

because you have the energy to get cds out earlier

[limber lion]

What cds

Vendetta doesn't cost energy

You just do Muti - Snd - Muti - Vend - Gar

And you're fine

And you do the normal opener after that

So Flag - Rup - Shiv - Vanish

[burnt star]

mut-snd-mut (out of energy wait for gar) is the issue hes talking about

[stoic needle]

Vendetta fixes that though

[icy crater]

right but sim opener is
mut - snd - muti - gar - flag - rup - vend no?

[burnt star]

yeps

totaly

[limber lion]

Ye you just vendetta earlier

[limber lion]

Yes

You do the same opener except you Vend earlier

Vanish and Shiv still on the same spots.

[icy crater]

right but I was saying if you run vigor instead of ds you might not need to change vendetta order

i dont know if thats true or not

[limber lion]

No, you still do

[icy crater]

ok

[limber lion]

It's around 2:04-2:05 for pillar, even with Vigor opener it would be Muti - Snd - Muti - Gar - Flag - Rup - Vend

Which is 6 GCD's

So you're one or two seconds late there.

[burnt star]

and pillar is only like 8 sec

[limber lion]

12

[burnt star]

true

[limber lion]

Might take you 1-2s to get there though.

[burnt star]

looking at log that was linked with vunerable phase

[hollow escarp]

I would just pre walk and feint

[burnt star]

but not accurate

[limber lion]

I always walk as near as possible

Between Sludge and the pillar

But that requires a good partner

[burnt star]

same

[limber lion]

Sometimes you get matched with some

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

Who wants to "play it safe"

[hollow escarp]

if I get paired with a melee dps, it's fine

but if I get paired with holy pala

[stoic needle]

When you get chained to the hpal

[hollow escarp]

I can see issues

[stoic needle]

[burnt star]

i refresh my garrote/rupture early if they not gonna last whole pillar

[limber lion]

Yeh Holy Pala's are the worst lul

[burnt star]

and try to start at full cp

[limber lion]

Good thing they can just BoP you and bubble themselves

And just break the chain

[burnt star]

for pillar

[stoic needle]

Mistweavers aren't bad

[hollow escarp]

I asked my hpal in the last HC to bop me and bubble

she is also officer

[limber lion]

As you should

[stoic needle]

I didn't even realize that one of our monks was a MW until like 10 pulls in

[hollow escarp]

lol

[burnt star]

imagine having a mw

melee in your group

are like

got to sit for him!"

[stoic needle]

Fistweaving seems fun

[hollow escarp]

I mean

healers are hard to recruit

fuck a melee dps

[compact pumice]

We have no monk atm, I would take a MW in a heartbeat

They can really output a lot of HPS too

[stoic needle]

We have no warrior

[burnt star]

oof

[compact pumice]

Ouf, that's worse

[stoic needle]

One of our tanks is gearing one up I think

Or we're trying to recruit one

[hollow escarp]

I'm currently boosting my own monk in torghast

[compact pumice]

I dunno man, many people play healer nowadays

[hollow escarp]

well, I'm also alliance

on english eu realms

[limber lion]

[compact pumice]

Dude, monks do torghast so damn fast. No point in boosting tbh!

[compact pumice]

Just get a few Corrosive Dosage and you're set

[burnt star]

ya, as brewmaster

had a lot of fun doing torghat on my alt

[hollow escarp]

with rogue it's fine, if my alt dies, I just release next floor

[burnt star]

corrosive carrying my ass

[hollow escarp]

but I'm "multiboxing"

[compact pumice]

as either of the specs tbh, only prob is on Mistweaver vivify costs mana, but otherwise it's the same 😛

[stoic needle]

Alliance

[hollow escarp]

hey, at least we have cool races

ngl, multiboxing torghast is fun

because I can let my alt account tank

while I vanish

[wary ice]

Its insane how much value they dumped into vanish for content i cant use the button in 😦

[hollow escarp]

you can play around it if you watch for GCD

and vanish without resetting

but it's still risky

[wary ice]

yeah i try to

I've had combat reset froma vanish in ST while boss is kidney'd

so i just stopped pressing the buttont bh

[hollow escarp]

3400 soul ash on main, what to do now

[obtuse ruin]

9.1

[stoic needle]

Deathly shad ws

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

Maybe duskwalkers

[hollow escarp]

upgrade Finality rank 4

[stoic needle]

does having sin loot spec increase your chances of looting IQD from DOS because there's no dagger but there's a sword for OL spec

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[loud niche]

So I'm wondering if they are planning to give us 2 legendaries in 9.1

[drifting cloud]

probably not

[thorny rose]

I would be suprised. I think that’s more likely in .2 or .3

That would be sick though. Zoldyck and Doomblade

[balmy condor]

yeah I don't see double legendaries coming this year

[stoic needle]

yeah i dont think it's coming before 9.2 at the earliest

[limber lion]

Honestly who knows.

They gave us second azerite traits in 8.1 as well, so could very well be double legendaries in 9.1.

Unless they come up with a new borrowed power system on top of legendaries and soulbinds.

[vestal wren]

main issue i see with double legendary is that we have so many op combination across classes

[balmy condor]

agreed

[stoic needle]

i could definitely see them expanding the soulbinds to have more effects

instead of a new system altogether

[vestal wren]

i think we will see 2 sooner or later, but we probably see more legendary changes before that

[limber lion]

Well they did say that we're getting "empowered conduits" whatever that means.

[vestal wren]

i am excited for 9.1 ptr

[stoic needle]

i'm gonna laugh hard if empowered conduits just = azerite traits without the rng

[vestal wren]

because keep in mind what we see is a glace on how much content blizz can develop in ~6-8 months

[limber lion]

I just hope that they can get players back into the game after we've been sitting at a content drought for more than half a year at that point.

Would have to be something really, really great to bring people back to the game.

And want to play for more than just a few resets.

[vestal wren]

(the time is a assumption as i don't think that they start development this late, so it could be even higher)

[limber lion]

Well just looking at Blizzcon

They revealed very little

They didn't have any videos/screenshots or sketches to show

Just words on paper

[vestal wren]

if we go to be pessimistic, they started in jan with 9.1 content creation

[limber lion]

This is the longest time period ever between X.0 and X.1

[vestal wren]

but for a company with this size and a relatively regular/constant release cycle its probably fair to assume that they did not postpone dev for new content up to the point when content launches

[limber lion]

And it was already very bad in BFA

And now it's even worse.

[vestal wren]

e.g. i remember reading that they usually start to develope xpacs 2+ years in advanced

[hollow escarp]

I think they do work on zones and dungeons like that

[limber lion]

Yeah, pretty sure they have 2 teams (or so I've heard, not sure if it's true or not)

[hollow escarp]

it's the balancing and polishing that goes after

[limber lion]

Where one works on an upcoming expansion, and the other team works on the current expansion.

[vestal wren]

the problem for me is rly transparency. I have no inside how long certain content needs to be created.

So i can just either go with whats standard in the industry (whats probably off) or wild assumptions

[limber lion]

Ye exactly.

Who knows at this point, it's completely random

[hollow escarp]

for me I don't mind content drought, I actually enjoy having a "break" after a tier and focus on collecting stuff and achievements, but I know it's not good for the game overall

[vestal wren]

I actually don't think the content draught would be as bad

if they fixed some prblems in the game and would not give this many restrictions

[hollow escarp]

9.0.5 came with no new content but because of the balance changes, we kinda had some content

[vestal wren]

e.g. losing all of your covenant unlocks + progress when switching covenant just makes you not want to do it

[vital haven]

i always had the perception that the double ring was by overwhelming community pressure

[vestal wren]

so unless you raid in a higher guild that requires all covenants to be unlocked i don't expect anyone to do that

blizz could just allow you to do all cmpains once you finished with your covenant

[vital haven]

based on the absolute negative feedback of the azerite trait system

[vestal wren]

its somewhat stupid

[hollow escarp]

as rogue main, I didn't mind azerite

[vestal wren]

beause blizz iterates over the same/similar systems every xpac

and seemingly doesen't change up their approach

[hollow escarp]

they double down a lot

and they change at the end of expac

[vestal wren]

buffing assassination however was a smart move

[gusty mirage]

unless you kept getting trash traits

[vestal wren]

because now they got ppl interessted to level/gear/craft legendary for it

[gusty mirage]

still waiting to get my gorak tuls for 8.3

[vital haven]

blightbourne?

omg that fucking trait

thank god for classic though blizz can now get a buffer for long content droughts

theyve been speedrunning the tbc beta testing

[hollow escarp]

if you care about classic

[vital haven]

prob wanna release tbc before 9.1

[gusty mirage]

That'd tilt me so bad tbh

[vestal wren]

classic servers are great tbh

[hollow escarp]

great for the game yeah

[vestal wren]

some fresh air of old content if you are into it between tiers

[gusty mirage]

the nostalgia of classic ran out at level 19 for me

[hollow escarp]

23

[vital haven]

i think tbc release is on may

then patch 9.1 on july

[gusty mirage]

that just means I have to suffer on council prog for 3 more months

[vital haven]

EZ game for blizz

[hollow escarp]

1 week sludge, 6 weeks on SLG, 2 weeks on SIre

yeah

I might get CE

[vital haven]

6 weeks on SLG?!

[gusty mirage]

SLG is still awful

[hollow escarp]

hey, expecting the worse

[gusty mirage]

even after the nerfs

[hollow escarp]

so I can't get dissapointed

[stoic needle]

classic is dog

[gusty mirage]

better to assume 6 weeks than less lol

[hollow escarp]

we technically are 2 weeks on Sludge

but we had no pulls

because people want reclear

at 224 ilvl

WTF

[stoic needle]

6 weeks on slg

[gusty mirage]

we've only been progging on council 2 weeks tbh, we've been stalled for 2 weeks because people had shit pop up and then our DKs vanished into the abyss

[patent topaz]

pulls on slg are really long though

[stoic needle]

sludge dies tonight

[gusty mirage]

you found a guild?

[hollow escarp]

yeah, while Sludge pulls are 2-3 min

[gusty mirage]

less if you snap your chain on purpose

🙂

[hollow escarp]

we have good comp for SLG

hopefully it will be ok

we do have 3 more rogues than we need though

[stoic needle]

we out here

[gusty mirage]

grats dood ❤️

[hollow escarp]

damn

nice

[gusty mirage]

what's an "Herb Team"

[stoic needle]

this group seems pretty chill so far

herb team is trial

i'm hoping i can get a chain

[gusty mirage]

lmao oh I thought they made that poor druid farm all the herbs for flasks

[stoic needle]

it's "herb team 6" lmao

[hollow escarp]

I need to do 4600 dps on council to repair my blue log

[stoic needle]

please lord, give me an iqd so i may fuck sludgefist's shit up

[hollow escarp]

I was tempted to go skulker/ vessel

but I've checked top logs

they all go lucky

3/3 crits

so it's not that sustainable

but you also risk to lay on hands somebody at last pillar

[stoic needle]

you always get stats during lust

it overrides the other options

[hollow escarp]

[plucky isle]

anyone know where i can find the mouse over macro for serrated bone spike?

[stoic needle]

NS MFD CT is so fun man

[hollow escarp]

ooze gang kinda slacking

[gusty mirage]

they always do tbh

[hollow escarp]

skulkers gives like 400-500k damage each dungeon

[gusty mirage]

Mouseover for bone spike: #showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead] [] Serrated Bone Spike(Necrolord)

[stoic needle]

ooze doesnt do much in dungeons

[plucky isle]

thanks!

[stoic needle]

but it pumps on single target and sludge specifically

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

yea its ST damage is solid for longish fights

but in keys they kinda just follow you around doing nothing

[stoic needle]

lol yeah

im suprised how well this NS build does on ST

tbh

[gusty mirage]

I wasn't @balmy condor showed me the way weeks ago

[stoic needle]

i thought it would be a big loss over zoldyck/subt but its not bad

and vanishing into the shiv'd 5cp ma envenom

🥜

[gusty mirage]

the emote is called peanuts but its one peanut, something's fishy here

[balmy condor]

Imagine having impact from talents

Lul

[hollow escarp]

in Torghast with NS/CT I just swarm through everything

[uneven plume]

Getting M sludge down to 16% on 15th pull on first prog night pretty good?

[stoic needle]

yeah i'd say thats pretty good

[gusty mirage]

yes

[hollow escarp]

I would be happy with that

[uneven plume]

But 120 for m council before

O.O

[hollow escarp]

but if it's not consistent low % pulls, then it's not that good

[patent topaz]

sludge is giga nerfed now, should be easy for you

[uneven plume]

Omg sin shreds

[hollow escarp]

that is feral

sir

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

that actually brings up a funny story for me

[uneven plume]

Shreds so much that my guild tells everyone it’s okay if you are not top dps this is prog

[gusty mirage]

So I got benched for mythic sun king for a feral druid, and then my RL messaged me begging me to come back. And now everyone in my guild thinks feral sucks because one dude was mediocre at it

[uneven plume]

I think people who don’t know sin or feral

Don’t expect it

[hollow escarp]

since when does dps matter on Sun King?

just kill the shields

[uneven plume]

Bruh

[gusty mirage]

idk

[hollow escarp]

I think we only wiped twice for no dps on shields

[uneven plume]

I did like 10th overal dps on sun king

[hollow escarp]

it was always healing issue

[gusty mirage]

idk what his damage looked like tbh outside of inerva and it wasn't very impressive

[uneven plume]

But did 1.2k more dps than everyone on shade

[torpid spoke]

Does necro covenant ability count towards doomblade damage increase?

[hollow escarp]

I padded on my last Sun King kill and now I have purp log there

[uneven plume]

Even m council

I did like 8th overall

But

Nik and stav I did first place

[hollow escarp]

I was 14th on Council below tank

ashen hallow on waiters

[uneven plume]

Sludge it’s not even close lmao

On all of our pulls I did like 1.5k overall more dps on all of our wipes

16 wipes

And we got to lust phase like 7 times

[patent topaz]

mages/locks/boomies should still annihilate you

[uneven plume]

Out of those 16

[gusty mirage]

did you play CT?

[foggy flint]

i don't think bone spike counts as a rogue bleed for doomblade, the same way it does not get affected by exsanguinate. The fact that it benefits from mastery makes it confusing

[hollow escarp]

yes

[gusty mirage]

tsk tsk tsk

[hollow escarp]

but I had skulkers for shield

[gusty mirage]

83 and a 90 w/ poison bomb here

step yo game up

[uneven plume]

Sludge seems like it’s gonna go down next week probably

What about slg

Outlaw?

[gusty mirage]

probably, for your sanity reasons alone

playing assa on that fight would be such a clusterfuck

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

definitely doable

[uneven plume]

Ks/ma would work?

[dusk lion]

Am I going to be totally gimped being a night fae now?

[hollow escarp]

no

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

you get PI

[gusty mirage]

not on sun king I don't

[hollow escarp]

wait

[gusty mirage]

that goes to the healers brotha

[hollow escarp]

90 on 5600 dps?

I had 78 on 5500

[gusty mirage]

shrug

[uneven plume]

I’m trying to be rank 1 on sludge

How do I beat

9k dps

[hollow escarp]

254, it's when I got 4900 dps with 55 parse

[uneven plume]

[gusty mirage]

that's in today's %

[hollow escarp]

ye

glad sun king logs don't matter

[uneven plume]

Did r1 sludge rogue have iqd?

[hollow escarp]

I just wanted to get rid of blue

[hollow escarp]

no, he opened with Ambush

[gusty mirage]

dw ya boys got a 70 on xymox

[uneven plume]

O.o

[hollow escarp]

he got 9 PIs

[gusty mirage]

but we've never had a clean kill

[hollow escarp]

not gonna do any reclears until CE though

so I will be stuck with these logs for a while

[gusty mirage]

we're doing a reclear next week cuz some peeps rerolling DKs

cuz ours vanished

maybe I'll finally get the inerva trink (:

[uneven plume]

Inerva was face roll

[hollow escarp]

I looted doomblade replacement last night, had to trade it to boomie

and then I got the inerva trinket

but RL said it's better for hunter

[gusty mirage]

that fight makes no sense to me, our first 2 kills were such a shit show the other 2 went so smooth

[uneven plume]

It’s rng

[gusty mirage]

like people learned how to put lines through orbs and soak finally

[uneven plume]

With the pools

Sometimes you get none

Sometimes you get all three

Lmfaooo

[gusty mirage]

our biggest issue was the orbs

I was about to give a geometry lesson to the guild

[hollow escarp]

I cloak 3 times during Inerva

[uneven plume]

Lmaoo I just told people

[hollow escarp]

saved a few ads in the beginning

[uneven plume]

I’ll get the hard orb

And we did it

I got the orb like 3 times our first kill

Smoothed it by having people do the easy orbs

[hollow escarp]

on my best pull ever I also got orb

if it's outside CDs, it won't affect damage that much

[uneven plume]

It won’t if you have bleeds up on inerva

Not a lot of dps loss

Damn dmx passed away

RIP

[gusty mirage]

yeah 😦

[compact pumice]

Yeah, RIP DMX.

[balmy condor]

Damn, whats dmx?

New legendary?

[visual prairie]

if you cloak with the circle on you, the add doesn't spawn?

[shy dust]

That is so vague

Cloak what with a circle on you?

The final boss of theater?

[visual prairie]

they were talking about inerva, sorry

[gloomy fern]

u can only precloak inerva adds

[visual prairie]

i just jumped in, i guess that was 20 minutes ago

[shy dust]

You have to pre cloak yeah

There is weakauras for it

[visual prairie]

ah

[sharp echo]

is there any breakpoints for haste ?

[hollow escarp]

no

check pins

[balmy condor]

Everyone always ask the pins, but never how the pins

[icy haven]

how are you whispy?

[balmy condor]

I’m doing good :)

[limber lion]

Haha same!!

[hollow escarp]

yeah but

I don't have the cold blood to do it

[fervent tusk]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[fervent tusk]

hello guys moving back to assa since bfa season 1, how is the dps comparable to havoc in m+?

been playing havoc mostly till now but been seeing assa is on the rise now

[obtuse ruin]

havoc does way more damage in m+ compared to assa

even outlaw is much better imo damage wise

assa is top tier for raid

[hollow escarp]

havoc doesn't have the same utility as it had in bfa

blade dance is nerfed

[obtuse ruin]

assa utility is pretty bad too tbh

[hollow escarp]

yeah, it's the base rogue utility

and Iron Wire

[limber lion]

Hard disagree

Assa pumps and is very comparable to Outlaw in damage

It's hard to compare Havoc's and Assa's damage because they differ very much every dungeon

[hollow escarp]

all melee specs are fine on damage in M+ right now

[limber lion]

But they're legit both just fine

[obtuse ruin]

/cries in sub

[balmy condor]

I haven’t seen a havoc in many moons but much better rogues than me say havoc slams

[limber lion]

And you can play anything you want

And be cool.

[obtuse ruin]

I mean if both played pretty much perfectly in a dungeon with the same kind of pulls havoc almost always gets ahead

[hollow escarp]

did you play assa?

[obtuse ruin]

not saying assa is bad

[limber lion]

No definitely not

[obtuse ruin]

I play havoc and subtlety but assa is my love

[limber lion]

Havoc definitely pumps with Fel Rush

But it's hard to say which is better

[hollow escarp]

depending on key level, I can see how havoc can do more damage, all of the damge is upfront so if the mobs are low hp, you won't get that much damge

[limber lion]

Neither Assa nor Havoc are played much

[obtuse ruin]

are you talking in terms of pure damage? @limber lion

or utility

[limber lion]

We're talking damage only.

The question was

"Who does more dps"

Not "who is better in m+"

[obtuse ruin]

exactly I think rogue on the whole might be better but more dps havoc 7 out of 10 times imo beats assa

[limber lion]

Yeh most likely

[obtuse ruin]

things might change in the next patch

[fervent tusk]

Usually I do around 7-8k in all dungeons around 17-20 keys as Havoc DH, hoping I can do the same with sin

[hollow escarp]

assa can also do those numbers

I personally rarely achieved that

but I've seen others that did

[plain jetty]

I’d argue that rogue and hunter have almost the exact same utility but one is ranged and has wild spirits and the other has a melee kick

[hollow escarp]

if only hunters would have aoe damage reduction

[obtuse ruin]

I think end of the day if assa was really pumping most of the top rogues would be playing that but if they are on equal terms as outlaw then outlaw is played more because of better utility

[plain jetty]

Hunters are built out of off brand paper towels

[hollow escarp]

there is this arguably

but it's not baseline

[plain jetty]

How does outlaw have better utility?

[hollow escarp]

gouge

melee range

[plain jetty]

Not enough

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[plain jetty]

Is gouge really that crazy?

[hollow escarp]

yep

you can intrerupt lots of stuff

that cannot be intrerupted

[obtuse ruin]

you can stop everything with that

[hollow escarp]

by classic kicks

[vital haven]

havoc slams

[obtuse ruin]

basically 2 kicks

[hollow escarp]

the only downside is that you have to be in front of the target

[vital haven]

more than rogues id say

[hollow escarp]

so if it is a frontal, like Mists, you might take some dam

[obtuse ruin]

Nairda! 😄 yep havoc>rogues pure damage wise

[plain jetty]

I just hit 60 so I’m currently just sticking with Assassin because I don’t wanna make a ton of leggos and I don’t wanna have to get a third weapon

[balmy condor]

Gouge is pretty huge

[hollow escarp]

if gouge was baseline, I don't think outlaw would be that prefered over the other 2 specs

[balmy condor]

The fact that it’s an incap is insane as well

It doesn’t even DR with stubs

[plain jetty]

We need to go back to bfa where the meta was DH/outlaw lol

[vital haven]

or

s2 meta

[obtuse ruin]

true gouge baseline would make assa much more viable

[vital haven]

triple rogue!

[hollow escarp]

there is a full melee team that pushes keys

[obtuse ruin]

triple outlaw was the fkin worst

[hollow escarp]

rogue, monk and warrior I think

[plain jetty]

They just skip storming and spiteful weeks

[balmy condor]

Imo gouge should be removed

It’s just too much

[vital haven]

tbh ive never seen a dps spec dominate the dps m+ meta as hard as rogues did in s2 bfa

[obtuse ruin]

true

[hollow escarp]

blizzard made invis pots work and we still have rogues pushing WF keys

[plain jetty]

You mean like fire mage rn?

[vital haven]

nah

[obtuse ruin]

if rogues had any kind of uncap ability then theyd be amazing right now too

[vital haven]

s2 bfa you could run triple rogue for world first keys

and be good

be more than good

[obtuse ruin]

like havoc with fel rush or monk with that spinning shit

[hollow escarp]

blade rush is uncapped

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb is uncapped

[soft shale]

dashing poison bomb with mastery crit new messiah

[hollow escarp]

monk probably does more damage anyway, and they are capped at 5

[obtuse ruin]

make CT uncapped

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb being uncapped is actually quite huge

It needs 20 targets to win in sustained aoe

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

But if you have 20 targets

Oh baby

[soft shale]

only 20 lets gooo

[balmy condor]

Poison bombs POPPING

[obtuse ruin]

lol.

[hollow escarp]

blobs in Plaguefall

[soft shale]

imagine if assa also had tornado

4 ruptures pog

[hollow escarp]

I'm quite happy about how assa is in M+ rn

yeah, shrouded suffocation was cool

but we are still good enough

[obtuse ruin]

not the best in dps tho

[limber lion]

Yeh, doing around 7.5k per dungeon is fine for me.

[obtuse ruin]

not even in melee

[plain jetty]

Assa is just melee sp in keys without searing nightmare lol

[obtuse ruin]

ww havoc fury and even outlaw when played properly can out do assa

[hollow escarp]

we are affli locs without Malefic Rupture

we have exsang as talent

but at least we don't have Vendetta on last row

[obtuse ruin]

is any legendary actually aoe focused only?

for assa

[balmy condor]

Not really

[dull cloak]

not sure why fok and shuriken storm is capped. they hit like noodles

[hollow escarp]

it's not about damage

it's about CP generation

[balmy condor]

Bloodfang is shit single target, but it still works I guess

[dull cloak]

so having it uncapped wont even make it op

[soft shale]

arbiter with 3 or more is decent aoe

but then you play that

how much st loss would that be

hmm

[balmy condor]

Uncapping fok would actually be quite strong

[hollow escarp]

yes

our damage comes from finishers

[balmy condor]

Poison damage would be really high

[hollow escarp]

that as well

lots of poison applications

[balmy condor]

Well the main thing is actually the poisons I would think

Like I looked into forcing a CT from stealth with NS MA in sims

[hollow escarp]

yep, I was focused on the cp generation part more and I remembered how good it was to fok and have full cp bar

[balmy condor]

As in making sure you’re not at like 3 cp

[plain jetty]

But when you FoK does it always hit the same 5 targets in a big pull? Or couldn’t you count on spreading poisons over multiple casts

[balmy condor]

And instead forcing mfd at the start of pulls

And without MA equipped, its actually neutral

A big part of that, is fok from stealth isn’t actually bad with nightstalker

Since the poisons NS, and they’re guaranteed to apply from stealth now since poisons rank 2 works now

[balmy condor]

The targeting is random, but has a preference for mobs closer to you

[hollow escarp]

if NS worked like Subt, it would be crazy

with 3 sec duration I mean

fok is also 8 targets @plain jetty

so is CT

I think only outlaw is capped at 5

[balmy condor]

Correct

Flurry is 5 targets

So target + 5

Sin is all 8

[hollow escarp]

there aren't so many scenarios where we have more than 8 targets now though

ofc there are some

but overall it's fine

[dull cloak]

we lost echoing blades, so when they changed fok to 8 target in alpha it was a head scratcher for me

[fervent tusk]

Guys so from what I got havoc is more dps than sin but play sin if you have more fun since its not that far behind?

[balmy condor]

Sure

[hollow escarp]

all melee dps slap in M+

[obtuse ruin]

all melee get slapped in m+

[hollow escarp]

that as well

[balmy condor]

It’s just wide brush target capping

Storm being capped = fok being capped = flurry being capped

[obtuse ruin]

Remove target cap make m+ fun again

[hollow escarp]

not this expac

same with gcd, they will leave it 1 expac

than slightly revert it

[fervent tusk]

ok but does sin provide extra utility even tho its dps is below DH?

[balmy condor]

Kinda

[obtuse ruin]

kind of?

[balmy condor]

It has shroud

[hollow escarp]

if you have a veng dh, sin is better utility wise

[balmy condor]

That’s something I guess

[hollow escarp]

that if your comp is focused on wizard damage

[obtuse ruin]

@fervent tusk honestly if youre that in doubt just stick with havoc lol

havoc is insane if played right

[hollow escarp]

I find it hard to enjoy other melee in dungeons only because of tricks

[balmy condor]

WIZARD DAMAGE

[hollow escarp]

melee brain, zug zug

[balmy condor]

[fervent tusk]

Probably come back to sin in 9.1 then

[limber lion]

Just always play Sin and nothing else but Sin

[stark oxide]

!open

[balmy condor]

!close

Or !sesame maybe?

[austere spoke]

hey guys, new here in the discord, so be patient, please. How different is sin rogue from BFA? i want to get mine to 60 but want to have a feel about how it is playing in SL 9.0.5 pvp

[limber lion]

#pvp

[shy dust]

Still the same

You train a target

The life of assa in PvP

[hollow escarp]

at least you don't run like a bitch 😉

[austere spoke]

thanks for answer guys. i was asking more rotation wise if something changed, but i will take a look further

[amber mountain]

rotation is pretty much the same... make it bleed. Only real changes are around covenant abilities, and the rule of thumb there is "use on cooldown"

[balmy condor]

He was talking about pvp

[amber mountain]

in here?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! what a monster!

[balmy condor]

That’s what I’m saying

[austere spoke]

thanks for answer, crimsom ❤️

[limber lion]

Np

[clever vapor]

Where can I see this NS build, and is it only better under specific circumstances?

[balmy condor]

It’s usually just not better

It’s very similar, the only changes are you go nightstalker, mfd, and master assassin

And you open with mfd + CT/rup from stealth

That’s basically it

[limber lion]

It's a fun build for lower keys, but would still probably recommend going the normal EP/Subt/Vig with Zoldyck for high keys.

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna try running it with my group since we don't have a fire mage

If you don't have 2 huge aoe classes I feel like it may be solid af

[fair geyser]

Is assassination supposed to do bad damage in dungeons while leveling?

[balmy condor]

Leveling is an unbalanced mess

I wouldn’t really pay attention to anything while leveling

[clever vapor]

Is zoldyck better than MA for dungeons? I thought it's the opposite way

[vestal wren]

both are good

[naive surge]

Doomblade. All the way

[slow marsh]

I think it just depends on the dungeon tbh

MA is just so good all around for all specs its hard to not have it and play around with it

Zold is really good all around for sin. Doomblade is only good for ST

[frosty cedar]

best statteronis for zold for m+

[slow marsh]

Crit haste

[frosty cedar]

thanks fellow cockers

[slow marsh]

Some degens are playing around with some mastery build but its super sus

[frosty cedar]

plebs

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t call them nerds really

[slow marsh]

tru

[balmy condor]

Implies they’re smart

[slow marsh]

Fixed

[frosty cedar]

[slow marsh]

[frosty cedar]

oi plebs would you go doomblade or zolcock for tyranical m+ if u just wanted to do 15s

[fair geyser]

Noticed that on my disc priest where i was forced to spam shadow mend

[neon stone]

May i ask who i have my pvp gear vers mastery id like to try that

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck because it's raging week

[slow marsh]

Doomblade for ToP but everything else Zold

[frosty cedar]

ok cockers thanks for the advice

[stoic needle]

Doomblade only really works in top/sd/pf

Zoldyck is useless on last boss sd

Pf is small pulls like top

[limber lion]

Dashing for SD?

[stoic needle]

I'm actually very curious about dashing now

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't worry about it. It's people who are trying to force bad things and trying to make them good

[stoic needle]

Cuz you get prio damage but your poisons also do more damage so it's not useless in aoe you have to alter your rotation

[neon stone]

Im that kind of ppl lol

[stoic needle]

Just @ me next time

[slow marsh]

lol not you

[stoic needle]

Well mastery is the 'best' stat for pure aoe

[slow marsh]

Also why you change your prof pic every 2 days

[stoic needle]

Adhd kekw

[slow marsh]

I mean I believe sims still say that haste > crit > vers/mastery for aoe right

[neon stone]

I have tried running m+ with vers/mast + MA using the fok talent and nightstalker

[slow marsh]

makes sense. not hating at all just wondering

I know people stole your vampy boi pic so that's a rip

[stoic needle]

Works better with CT

[slow marsh]

Do it with mfd CT

[neon stone]

St still broken (venthyr) but aoe its garbage i just cant compare to 30k ppl

[stoic needle]

My vers mast ma makes ct pump hard

[slow marsh]

Open with mfd CT and watch the world burn

[neon stone]

Ct?

[slow marsh]

Crimson Tempest

[balmy condor]

[neon stone]

Oh crimson

[balmy condor]

Hidden blades kinda omega cringe

[slow marsh]

Yep

[neon stone]

I hate ct lol

[stoic needle]

I did like 17k dps aoe on the first pull of de other side earlier

[limber lion]

CT is the best talent we have

[stoic needle]

Why do you hate doing damage

[limber lion]

Change my mind.

[slow marsh]

Though I do remember a certain someone trying to make HB work

[neon stone]

Number wise cant deny it

[balmy condor]

Yeah it just doesn’t tho

[slow marsh]

IK

[neon stone]

But it kinda hurts my soul that you dont get energy from it

[balmy condor]

I invite anyone to try and make something work

It’s just

Eventually you gotta let her go

[slow marsh]

If we could actually stack it instead of having to use it for CP then maybe

[slow marsh]

I mean

tru

[stoic needle]

Ct giving energy would be a bit of a waste tbh

[slow marsh]

Yeah it would

[stoic needle]

Cuz you're basically energy capped with enough bleeds up

[slow marsh]

I would like to see CT duration be slightly longer so you can fit a couple envenoms in it

[balmy condor]

A lot of TCers have suggested flipping venomous wounds

[limber lion]

Not really.

[stoic needle]

That would be interesting

[royal lantern]

watcha mean with flipping

[slow marsh]

It would make more sense tbh

[balmy condor]

Poison ticks on bleeding enemies

[royal lantern]

oh ye

[stoic needle]

Yeah aoe sims say crit > mastery/vers > haste

[balmy condor]

Not bleeding ticks on poison enemies

[limber lion]

What would it change?

[slow marsh]

Ah ok well that's why I asked cuz I haven't delved into that convo much

[stoic needle]

One ct and you have infinite energy in a pack

[royal lantern]

better aoe

[slow marsh]

It would change that fok gives energy

[stoic needle]

Yeah and fok giving energy

[limber lion]

A bit too much imo lul

[slow marsh]

instead of multiple ruptures

it would be overcapping for sure

[balmy condor]

I personally really advocate against it