assassination

[visual prairie]

congrats!

[tender sequoia]

i satrt with applying poison then i garroth

[hollow escarp]

I joined a +18 pug and they want to invis pot prides. Any bets if we finish the key or not?

[tender sequoia]

then mutilate and then what combo ability would you use?

[limber lion]

Read the guides.

[limber lion]

Not sure why you would in a +18, but good on ya

Hopefully it doesn't go wrong

[hollow escarp]

I don't get it either

[tender sequoia]

but its roughly right direction?

[drifting cloud]

I mean depends how many prides and what dungeon?

[limber lion]

One person doing it wrong and it's over.

[hollow escarp]

good, we ain't doing that

it was one guy with the idea lol

[winter vapor]

anyone got a macro for using shadowmeld to restealth? doing it manaually atm

[burnt star]

hmm

/concern face

[shy dust]

whats concering about that

with double on use

[limber lion]

That means you use IQD first

[shy dust]

sim uses slot 1 first

[burnt star]

i see

[shy dust]

its a big loss to use iqd like 20 seconds or so into the fight

outside of your cds

[forest wing]

is this real life

[limber lion]

You should also try simming Memory with:

shadowlands.memory_of_past_sins_precast=15

[limber lion]

What a gamer

[compact pumice]

Tough choice

[limber lion]

Don't take either

[forest wing]

ye, dreadfire sims a bit better with phial 220 but i'll go phial anyways

[limber lion]

Clear Sire today

If the trinket doesn't drop, take DFV

[forest wing]

5Head

[burnt star]

@limber lion you're right

[forest wing]

also phial means no more m+

godbless

[burnt star]

but... fk iqd.. im taking the stygia

[limber lion]

You do have a lot better chance at getting a new DFV though

IQD is sick

I use IQD everywhere nowadays.

[burnt star]

u use on cd.. or with cd only

[limber lion]

Same rule as with everything else pretty sure

[burnt star]

well, the general rule of trinket,. was use whenever.. but that 1 is different

[limber lion]

You press it on CD, but you can sync it if you don't miss out on a cast

[burnt star]

it does sync with 3rd flag

[limber lion]

Yep

[burnt star]

i guess ill just macro it with flag. and forget it

/just kidding

[ruby birch]

its ok i got 3 rings and none of them had haste on em

this game is nice

good game

[autumn sierra]

@limber lion i chose vent x)

[brazen pine]

Just run m0 with friends all lootspecced into dmg and upgrade with valor @strange python

[autumn sierra]

@strange python i have never dropped a phial in the last 5 months

[limber lion]

[autumn sierra]

imagine having friends to do that with Joe LOL

[brazen pine]

They had

They did

:p

[random fable]

So for this week being tyrannical, if I were trying to get the KSM achievement (all +15s), would it be better to use doomblade or zoldyck? Both rank 3; and talents would it be better going single target or aoe, or mixed?

[limber lion]

Zoldyck

[random fable]

interesting

ty

[limber lion]

AoE, EP Subt Vig/MFD CT

[brazen pine]

Oh, sry @autumn sierra read that wrong, thought you were saying "imagine having to do that with Joe" 🤪 It's really not a lot of effort, truly, and you can just kill only the relevant boss to save some time, too.

[kindred imp]

Fun times..

[sacred thicket]

Do y'all always just take the best option from the vault? I got a 226 dagger which I could use in my oh but Sim says the 226 chest I got is 10 more dps. I'm not really wanting to pass on the weapon tho...

[limber lion]

Free stygia

[limber lion]

You do you my man

[thorny rose]

follow your heart

[limber lion]

Take the weapon if you want.

[amber mountain]

What I wouldn't give for a weapon option in the vault...

[gloomy fern]

100% getting 233 wep this week

[amber mountain]

still running my 203 dagger from pre-valor, and a 194...

[limber lion]

For sure

[amber mountain]

all the rest of my gear is ~213-220

[median igloo]

how baity is shadowgrasp totem

[gloomy fern]

i mean its not a top tier trinket how can someone call it bait

[autumn sierra]

@limber lion is there a guide which tells me where to fit flags in?

inside shiv windows?

[gloomy fern]

on cd before u dump a lot of combopoints

[wintry kayak]

Guys in tyrannical we use PB or CT?

[limber lion]

Always CT

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[wintry kayak]

Tks Dude

[clever vapor]

Should I keep CT on 1 target?

like on boss fights?

[limber lion]

Yes, you maintain it outside of Shiv windows.

[worldly yarrow]

Heya folks. Switching from Scoundrel to Doomblade today. Venthyr/Nadja. What are the main things to watch for that are different between the two leggos? More bleeds, less envenums?

[limber lion]

Nothing, they play very similarly.

[kindred scarab]

I checked the pins, so I apologize if this was answered. Does it matter what slot we craft Zoldyck to? I wanted to try that out in M+

[limber lion]

Legs

[wide ridge]

pants

[kindred scarab]

ty 🙂

[old depot]

Got 226 phial in the vault, does envenom increase trinket damage?

[limber lion]

No.

[old depot]

copy, thanks

[wide ridge]

why would envenom increase it tho

do you mean shiv

[old depot]

oh sorry yes, i meant shiv

[limber lion]

Still no.

[median igloo]

im showing it as an increase over memory

[brittle pawn]

it scales with haste, so is good

[median igloo]

i guess i dont really have a better option. it's shadowgrasp totem or 750 stygia

[limber lion]

The totem is fine

[wide ridge]

totem is not bad actually

place totem on big pulls

get refunded bunch of cd

do it again etc

[stoic needle]

not baity at all

[old depot]

totem is a top 4 trinket in both raid and ST per hero damage im seeing

*M+ and ST

[limber lion]

Yeh ever since we discovered that it's hasted.

[stoic needle]

it was undersimming before

[hollow escarp]

DUDE

NS is amazing

[fervent beacon]

Too bad I already have my bis but I guess I could pump my totem trinket from 184

[limber lion]

Told ya

[stoic needle]

it's 100% not worth it to level it up from 184

[hollow escarp]

my damage was still ok

[stoic needle]

if you have better

[wide ridge]

is NS MFD CT viable for tyrannical weeks?

[hollow escarp]

I still misplayed a bit

[limber lion]

Yes

[stoic needle]

meh

[fervent beacon]

I have nothing else to spend my valor on, only two loots are at 220, everything is 226

[hollow escarp]

and wasted a few vanishes

but not bad overall

[wide ridge]

hardest part of MA is actually getting the tank to wait for restealth 🥴

[fervent beacon]

Do you vanish CT with NS on trash?

[stoic needle]

i wouldn't run ns mfd ct on tyrannical personally

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

Yes

[hollow escarp]

[fervent beacon]

Yeah I can see that being good. I have been playing sin for keys for last two weeks now, I actually dig it.

Especially on bosses, I peaked at like 14k opening and finish at like 10k

[limber lion]

Yeh it's fun

[wide ridge]

would ya go EP SUB PB?

[limber lion]

You burst like a mofo with pride using the EPNSMFDCT build

[hollow escarp]

imagine if I had 235 MA, I would have done like 30 more dps

[limber lion]

Never PB

[stoic needle]

do i take the meme mastery/crit chest from the vault or do i take the crit/haste/leech chest

[stoic needle]

ep subt CT

[fervent beacon]

And I also bribed one of the priest to PI me for farm night

[wide ridge]

o right, pb garbage

[fervent beacon]

Ez 50K for her that night.

[limber lion]

Crit haste

[wide ridge]

remember legion pb

[stoic needle]

but the masteryyyy

[hollow escarp]

now time to try Master Poisoner + Poison bomb and make 4 other people never invite rogues again

[stoic needle]

though i think with this chest i'll have 30% crit which is a pog

[limber lion]

[fervent beacon]

Yes the PB RNG that determines if you parses or not

[wide ridge]

legion pb did so much damage

[hollow escarp]

I made a wa to yell at tanks

was abit annoying now that I think about it

[wide ridge]

you think

[fervent beacon]

Cringe

I made a prot pally so if I see that WA, I'm kiting it more

[hollow escarp]

yeah

but I was young

25 years

[timid coral]

does cloak immune the knockback from shattering pain on M sire?

[limber lion]

No.

[hollow escarp]

[brittle pawn]

bring the invis, not the rogue

[hollow escarp]

people often forget rogues have shroud

[brittle pawn]

every single time

[hollow escarp]

seen people use pot instead of my shroud

like

wtf

[brittle pawn]

or forget sap

how many times people have told me to shroud 3rd pack in mists

is silly

[hollow escarp]

it's fine

let the mage sheep it

and see what happens in 1 min

[solar flicker]

theres nothing else to shroud

why wouldnt u lol

[warped temple]

big boy kojack!

[hollow escarp]

3 mobs

[brittle pawn]

i MaDe It, No AgGrO!

[hollow escarp]

the 3 mobs after 2nd boss

are worth skipping

[round harbor]

They saving shroud for next expansion

[hollow escarp]

depending on route

[brittle pawn]

or the amount of people that have weird routes where you get pride and then 2 more packs before last boss, but dont understand that you can shroud past them and not have to kill a 5th pride

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I don't like doing pride before last boss in MISTS

@warped temple any good loot from vault?

or you are already stacked

[warped temple]

crit haste ring, crit mast ring

might take crit mast for m+ idk yet

[hollow escarp]

nice

gonna get weapon tomorrow, I feel it

[warped temple]

hope so!

[brittle pawn]

getting weapons

[hollow escarp]

gimme

[brittle pawn]

ive got a fat 220/207 combo

[autumn sierra]

207 203 here x)

[fallen current]

My daggers are 226 and 200

I win.

[hollow escarp]

at least oh is not that big as main hand

any 233/233 gamers in chat?

[autumn sierra]

Seli 😛

[slender berry]

i already traded 2 weapons away after i got my mh 😦

[balmy condor]

@warped temple

[slender berry]

well oh is only 10 dps so im not that sad

[autumn sierra]

cant find where to put my Flag into the rotations on those guides ._.

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

Before a finisher

In single target, before rupture

In aoe kinda anywhere

[weak horizon]

@balmy condor in m+ on a boss in my opener do i crimson tempest before shiv? I know shiv has higher priority than CT, but is that still the case in the opener?

[warped temple]

😦

[balmy condor]

With subterfuge, technically no

[shy dust]

Imagine not having a 233 weapon since January

[hollow escarp]

oof

[balmy condor]

I think theoretically you would gar into the shiv and then CT

But shouldn’t make a huge difference either way

From what I’ve seen, shiv in aoe isn’t really that huge anyway

So it’s one of those micro adjustments you can make, but it won’t really do much

[last cedar]

Which would you guys use 220 IQC or 226 IDO (ooze trinket)? Patchwerk sim is so close (like 10 dps) I'm assuming most would use IQC for strong dmg windows though.

[balmy condor]

Would depend tbh

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

If they’re that close, I would use ooze

Just for consistency

[brittle pawn]

good ol inscrutable quantum crevasse

[stoic needle]

yeah but with IQD and enough crit on gear you get 100% crit during device + vanish

i would use iqd

[hollow escarp]

if you already have ok trinkets, IQD probably

[last cedar]

Right kind my thought process, Ooze for consistent damage but IQD for the potential as a needed CD.

ty

[hollow escarp]

I picked ooze a few weeks ago because nothing better dropped

but it's still a decent trinket

[last cedar]

yeah I got phial 220 first week and haven't gotten any trinket other than mistcaller since

Kind of kick in the dick

[frosty cedar]

I have phial and iqd, but I legit never get the second use out of it

[hollow escarp]

35 when?

[stoic needle]

soon(tm)

[hollow escarp]

ok, joined a group and they told me I have wrong talents

[stoic needle]

????

[hollow escarp]

because mfd

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

[brittle pawn]

just have the right talents

[frosty cedar]

id be tilted

[limber lion]

I had the same happen to me on one dungeon

[balmy condor]

People who call it “rog” should be shot

[wide ridge]

Mr rog

[fair geyser]

Rog

[brittle pawn]

chak you talant pls

[limber lion]

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

[fair geyser]

Mr rog chak you talant pls

[wide ridge]

does iqd give you the highest secondary stat you have?

[balmy condor]

In lust yes

Out of lust, it would pick one of your 2 highest

[wide ridge]

hm

i remember using one like 2 months ago and it used to give healer some mana during the fight

🥴

[balmy condor]

It still does that

Also heals low health allies

[wide bolt]

Gotta use the weak aura to track what itll give you

[hollow escarp]

wiped on first shard

tank left

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Mr tank chak talant

[halcyon zealot]

ahhh 226 wep (i have 220 oh) and 226 phial (i have 223) in my vault, both simming indentical upgrades IDK WHAT TO PICK FUCK

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

Take the phial I guess and get the weapon from raid

[autumn sierra]

@hollow escarp bet that was your wrong talants fault!

[hollow escarp]

I wish he said that

[stoic needle]

imagine not having correct talants

scrub

[hollow escarp]

I can see why non-rogue players might have questions about Nightstalker

but MFD?

[wide bolt]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[stoic needle]

rule #1 of wow: people who dont play a class have no fucking clue how its supposed to be played

[limber lion]

And most of the time neither do the people playing the class

[hollow escarp]

true

[wide ridge]

you'll never replace a 226 phial

until 9.1

you can still get 233 daggers

from pvp/sire

[hollow escarp]

you can actually sim that

it's not big anyway

I just upgraded to 235 this week

[gusty mirage]

Did you finish the key mr. rog?

[hollow escarp]

no

we wiped on first shard

[balmy condor]

Top gear has a button to add legendaries

[loud light]

on top gear there's a thing to add legos and you pick ilvl along with stats

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

I think somebody didn't check their talents

[velvet cosmos]

I have MA and Doomblade 235ilvl, worth getting Zoldyck for instance?

[balmy condor]

Probably not unless you’re doing sire prog

[hollow escarp]

last time I checked for myself, the biggest dps gap was from 190 to 210

[gusty mirage]

210-225 is purty big too

but yea 190-210 is the biggest jump

[hollow escarp]

that's why I always crafted 210 first

never did 190s

for doomblade I went 225 first

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor can you yell at me for being a dummy? I finally got 226 shoulders and now I'm sad I crafted doom on shoulders

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

IT MADE SENSE AT THE TIME

[hollow escarp]

at least you didn't get 233 shoulders

think about that

[gusty mirage]

Gotta kill council and sludge first to be super sad

[fallen current]

Womp womp

[balmy condor]

Imagine doing something not recommended and then getting fucked for it

[gusty mirage]

ty

[queen sonnet]

lol

[midnight marsh]

sadge not even 7k

[hollow escarp]

nice

[gusty mirage]

I went with the biggest dps upgrade at the time

I stand by my dumbfuckery

[fallen current]

I have celerity shoulders.

[balmy condor]

Run it again

[fallen current]

But least I don’t raid

[hollow escarp]

that's fine then

[fallen current]

Ye

[gusty mirage]

now I'm torn, do I just upgrade my shoulders to 235? cuz I really don't think we'll ever get SLG down lol

[midnight marsh]

@balmy condor lmao ok ill try to run it again :p

[gusty mirage]

been sittin on 4k soul ash for a week now

[hollow escarp]

it's uncapped now

go crazy

[gusty mirage]

I already have 2 MAs, I don't want to be an uber clown

[fallen current]

If they’d only uncap valor

[gusty mirage]

I'm already a clown

[wide ridge]

we're still getting buttfucked by M council so realistically i don't see me getting the 233 shoulders from stone legion soon so 235 doomblade on shoulders is pretty good for me @gusty mirage

i understand ya

[fallen current]

Wish I could put zold on ring so I could just change the same slot and not care

[hollow escarp]

celerity/doomblade shoulders are fine

[fallen current]

Mhm

[hollow escarp]

wait, what do we recommend for MA?

I made mine on ring

[fallen current]

Ring

[wide ridge]

ring price tho

[fallen current]

Super cheap on my realm

[wide ridge]

like what

[fallen current]

235 is like 20k

[wide ridge]

wtf

that's free

[fallen current]

Legs tho. 60k

[hollow escarp]

medium/high pop servers have reasonable prices

because we have enough people that like to craft below mat cost

I don't even restock legendaries that often, last time I leveled my hands to rank 4 to craft for myself and I just keep posting the legendaries

[vernal steeple]

if you go into an aoe pack with 5 combo points, would you rupture first or spam garrote until subterfuge is up, wasting combo points?

[hollow escarp]

almost sold all rank2s

waiting for somebody that did some maths answer that question

[vernal steeple]

maths is scary

[gusty mirage]

you CT out of stealth like a chad

[hollow escarp]

I would personally refresh SnD

not sure if it's the right move

[strange python]

You ct on nothing as you're moving to the next pack to assert dominance.

[thorny rose]

nightstalker MA gang

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

if you run subterfuge and you start a pack with 5 cp you would probably want to snd in stealth and then gar 3x

[safe barn]

how much haste you guys got until dropping vigor

[hollow escarp]

my answer was correct

[balmy condor]

if you already have snd up, then you would overcap

[gusty mirage]

as much as my gear gives me tbh

[hollow escarp]

forgot, but better sim yourself

[vernal steeple]

thankyou. im surprised to hear snd has value in aoe tbh, since your melees are way less of your total dmg in aoe

[hollow escarp]

you are always attacking a mob though

[gusty mirage]

imo I like Ruxen's answer best

[balmy condor]

snd has value because it's free

[hollow escarp]

if you are in range

[vernal steeple]

more value than a crimson tempest with master assassin? you gain 4 seconds of crit CT ticks but lose a subterfuge garrote and slice n dice. :/

opening with CT i mean

[balmy condor]

if you run subterfuge you don't open with CT

[gusty mirage]

^

[vernal steeple]

even with 5 cp?

[dawn ivy]

!oils

[thorny rose]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[dawn ivy]

whats the comman gfd

[balmy condor]

are you running subterfuge?

[vernal steeple]

yes

subterfuge MA

[strange python]

Opening with ct is only if you're using ns I thought.

[balmy condor]

if you run subterfuge, you don't open with CT

[gusty mirage]

correcto

[fallen current]

Sub and MA? 🤔

[gusty mirage]

the leggo

[vernal steeple]

oh is that wrong

[balmy condor]

no

it's not

[vernal steeple]

alright so, on (lets say 8 targets, coming in with 5 cp), subterfuge and MA, the best opener is still SND in stealth -> garrotes

?

[gusty mirage]

yeah, you'd only open w/ CT from stealth if you're playing nightstalker

[balmy condor]

yes

[vernal steeple]

okay thanks very much guys

[balmy condor]

if you play subterfuge, you open with garrotes

no if's about it

[misty holly]

garrote x3, fan, CT?

[balmy condor]

yeh

if you're at 0

[strange python]

Ah so it's better to get ct up on everything first before applying ruptures?

[balmy condor]

generally in aoe, yes

[thorny rose]

yeah cuz in this scenario theres 8 targets

[balmy condor]

you can sorta follow the NS rules for whether or not to CT

that rule being rupt on 2, ct on 3+

[vernal steeple]

is there an easy way i can run a sim with a modified cast sequence ? interested in putting things in to verify stuff

[safe barn]

1% dps loss when running vigor

[balmy condor]

raidbots advanced allows that

[safe barn]

i thought it was more

[vernal steeple]

thanks

[misty holly]

compared to what?

[visual prairie]

when running vigor but playing better

[safe barn]

ds

this is my personal sim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eSQmAseoBJwgMeKenJxD5i

[balmy condor]

oh venthyr

that's why it's so much

[burnt star]

Wtf i have the same sim :)

[limber lion]

Ya'll a bunch of gamers

[burnt star]

6999

[limber lion]

[burnt star]

No u

Btw cev. U play ma(lego)/ns. With ct opener in m+ still

What soulbind u going?

[limber lion]

Ye, I run with Theotar and Wasteland

[burnt star]

On boss. Do u open with 5 cp rupt?

I think rupt also snapshot ns

[limber lion]

Yes

[balmy condor]

you rupture on 1-2 and CT on 3+

[burnt star]

So. Would u also use the stealth to reaply rupt in pandemic in the opener

[balmy condor]

yes

[midnight marsh]

@burnt star tried simming again went down to 6998 xD gave up :p

[balmy condor]

unlucky

XD

[night bronze]

hey guys, does the bleed from zandalari works with the doomblade leg do you get the extra 5% dmg on envenom?

[midnight marsh]

lmfao maybe i just go buy those 226 boe boots

[burnt star]

Did u try switchint gem

[midnight marsh]

ya

[balmy condor]

took me 170 sims to get boobs dps

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eGRHgKrbXDp9mhbwdPT9JA

[plain thistle]

[midnight marsh]

LMFAOOO damn i thought you were serious for a second smh

jebaited

[feral merlin]

[balmy condor]

I am serious

it says boobs

right there

[midnight marsh]

epic

worth tho tbh

lmao

[visual prairie]

it only counts if it does that when you turn it upside down

[grave dock]

I don't get what he means there. does he mean vanishing to refresh the NS rupture in pandemic?

[balmy condor]

yes

[midnight marsh]

how much haste and crit yall got

[polar cape]

Decent amount

[burnt star]

That much

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wPA6wJcNUaYHVUeESmdkRW

[midnight marsh]

i have 744 crit and 667 haste and raidbots telling me to go for crit haste (sd boots) over haste crit (sd)

[willow oracle]

Just resim until you get to 7k!

[balmy condor]

thats what im sayin

[grave dock]

oh I see. you're talking about ST. I thought you meant multi-target at first - where you would presumably want to put 2 NS ruptures up

on ST though, is there any real difference between pandemicing it and just waiting for it to expire and using another NS rupture?

[balmy condor]

yeh, in 2 target, you would vanish for the second rupture, making sure not to clip MA

[balmy condor]

no

[grave dock]

yea I didn't think so

that's why I was confused

[midnight marsh]

@burnt star smh no lashing sire 226 :p

[grave dock]

what do you mean don't clip MA?

oh

you mean on the opener

don't vanish until the first MA is down

[balmy condor]

the difference is technically the 7ish seconds you save on vanish

[grave dock]

yea, true

which is potentially relevant on some tyrannical bosses

[burnt star]

Havent killed it yet :) we are only at our 5th night in slg. Yet hes diying tonight :)

[midnight marsh]

@burnt star :p just stygia it :d

[limber lion]

A 226 Lashing is like 7 dps more, so that would push you over the 7k

[gusty mirage]

gl I hope you get fat loot from slg

[burnt star]

The difference is you have higher dps at the start of the fight!! And bigger is better right. :)

[limber lion]

Or rather

You could try simming memory on prepull

And see if that pulls ahead

With

shadowlands.memory_of_past_sins_precast=15

[burnt star]

I did. Earlier when u suggested

Phial iqd was still ahead. So i removed it at one point

[limber lion]

Fair enough

[balmy condor]

would actually be the same

[burnt star]

Well technicly no.

Since u get ma 7 sec sooner

The rupture damage overall wouldnt change

[balmy condor]

yeah but over like 20 seconds

it would be the same

[burnt star]

Ya for sure

[grave dock]

it's still inside vendetta

and potions

although if you MFD a rupture you have to wait a while before you can actually get to pandemic range

[solar hare]

@balmy condor is DS simming 50 dps higher for me than vigor cuz of high haste

[limber lion]

Ye

[solar hare]

i havent played sin in so long and forget eerything

[limber lion]

The more haste you have, the better DS gets (or the worse Vigor gets, or both idk)

[solar hare]

at 21% rn

chillin

[limber lion]

Venthyr defaults to DS because of Thrill Seeker haste and Flag haste.

[solar hare]

i managed to drop so much vers somehow

[limber lion]

I'm at 16%

[solar hare]

from outlaw

[weak pike]

When do we use flag in our opener?

[solar hare]

my outlaw set has 28% vers lmfao

[midnight marsh]

@limber lion how much crit are you at

[solar hare]

wish i was venth

[limber lion]

28%

[limber lion]

Feel free to join us 🧛

[limber lion]

Here

I simmed your character for you again

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tqZ5SFn1ZpbYDupzSKZSzr

I got you to 7010

[solar hare]

idk i rarely ever play sin so

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fB4QV8P6SdPrvznJKhQQ3v

i could be 7k if i was venth

probably not but

i need to socket this neck

[limber lion]

Honestly probably would.

[solar hare]

yeah

lashing is

way to strong

idk how i managed to scrounge all this sin gear together

feels pretty good tho

[limber lion]

What do you mean with... sin gear?

[solar hare]

well

i geared thru mainly pvping

so all my shit has vers

i wanted to drop it

or some rather

[limber lion]

Yeah, vers is fine.

Yeh makes sense

But secondaries don't really matter honestly

[solar hare]

oh i know

[limber lion]

I use the exact same items for both Outlaw and Assa

[solar hare]

trust me :p

[limber lion]

The only things that change are my legendaries and weapons.

[gusty mirage]

Yeah but you're BETTER than me, I need all the optimization I can get man

[solar hare]

lmfao

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

I'm a literal trashcan

[solar hare]

yeah like this is my outlaw set

very vers heavy

[gusty mirage]

I miss being belf 😦

I went orc for pvp and now all my mogs are UGLY

[limber lion]

We're all sluts for big simdps

Admit it.

[solar hare]

truth

[midnight marsh]

cries in 10 percent verse

quest mobs be chunking me

[limber lion]

I kinda wanna swap to Orc for that sweet +20 dps

[patent topaz]

233 weapon in the box tomorrow

[limber lion]

But honestly

I like my Belf too much

[gusty mirage]

It's not worth it

[patent topaz]

3/3 mythic options

[gusty mirage]

the mog options alone are worth being belf

[limber lion]

Ye for sure Grizz

[gusty mirage]

everything just looks so much better

[patent topaz]

I have 220s like a pleb

[solar hare]

i used to be orc but belf simmed better in st and dslice so i swapped

plus arcane torrent is

a godsend for energy starvation

lmfao

[midnight marsh]

o damn i should get my 7k by race changing

[gusty mirage]

just press your buttons harder

cheaper than race swap

[limber lion]

Ye, my rotation these days on ST is Muti - Snd - Muti - Arcane Torrent - Gar

It's dank

[solar hare]

ye

[limber lion]

Lmao Mori

[solar hare]

arcane torrent completes the rotation

[limber lion]

I simmed your character

And I didn't get to 7k

But I got something better

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xidbg4XhL31LMaAqWy59it

[solar hare]

im fine with that

[limber lion]

6969 > 7k

[solar hare]

im never changing my gear

[patent topaz]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jfQi6hCPWzD7s9KbUNSoeQ my gear is pee pee poo poo

[slender trail]

nicenice

[patent topaz]

maybe next week

[gusty mirage]

you're not allowed to

I don't make the rules

but those are the rules

[patent topaz]

next week we do last reclear for people to get CE

then its break time

and considering it took me 12 carapace kills to get a dagger, maybe next tier

[gusty mirage]

bring me and I'll trade you the dagger

dw I'm pushing for 2400 this weekend

I'll have 233 weapons

[limber lion]

I just want CE :''(

[gusty mirage]

I just want council to die

[solar hare]

im 9/10

[limber lion]

And I want to reclear at least once

[gusty mirage]

and for us to give up on sludge

[patent topaz]

I started to get back into pvp after 10 years, feels like a boomer

[solar hare]

starting sire prog this week

[limber lion]

Good shit

it's a fun boss

[patent topaz]

1900 with a resto sham friend but im pretty shit

[gusty mirage]

tbh same, I was so fucking lost for the first couple of months

besides messing around a bit in bfa, last time I stepped into arena was wrath

[limber lion]

A 233 DFV is only 17dps better than my 220 Phial

[gusty mirage]

a 233 dfv is better than my 226 ooze though

hell a 220 dfv is better than my 226 ooze

WHY WON'T THAT TRINKET DROP FOR ME?

[patent topaz]

I got a 233 dreadfire, was ok

but weapon would have been huge

[gusty mirage]

yeah tbh I'd be sad af if I got anything besides a weapon off sire

but I've never seen a rogue token drop ever

so there's that

[patent topaz]

we got 0 weapons on last kill

[solar hare]

imagine having a phial

[patent topaz]

but I think 5 or so in vaults

[gusty mirage]

@solar hare just borrow mine

I suck anyway

[solar hare]

220 isnt an upgrade for me and i dont think ill ever see a 226 so

[gusty mirage]

you just have to believe

and gift @marble hemlock subs

I gifted seli 5 subs and got an upgrade for the first time in a month

coincidence? I think not

[hollow escarp]

I only gifted 3

[gusty mirage]

rip @hollow escarp

[hollow escarp]

still have time

tomorrow is vault

[gusty mirage]

just gift it while he's offline

[limber lion]

I'm not subbed to a single twitch channel

I'm just a lurker

[hollow escarp]

you are to Seli now

[gusty mirage]

true

I seent it

[limber lion]

😮

[patent topaz]

I use my prime to sub but nothing else

[gusty mirage]

you and whispyr are his newest subs

[hollow escarp]

no, I sent it

you gifted Whispyr

[limber lion]

❤️

You boys da bomb

[gusty mirage]

seent = seen in extra past tense

[limber lion]

Actual MVP's

[solar hare]

im starting too think i have every trinket in the game besides the good ones 🙂

[hollow escarp]

me no english

[gusty mirage]

me neither apparently

cuz it seent isnt a word

[solar hare]

i need opinions on iqd

[hollow escarp]

lol

[solar hare]

is it just

garbage

[hollow escarp]

well, the tooltip is pretty accurate

[solar hare]

lmfao

[hollow escarp]

after testing it in some keys

[solar hare]

fair

[gusty mirage]

it's good, but I also hate it so my opinion is already tainted

[solar hare]

i actually dont hate it in keys

i do hate the 3 min cd

but

[gusty mirage]

I have it just sitting in my bag at 210

taunting me to upgrade it and use it

but I refuse

[solar hare]

i got 226 like

7 weeks ago

wore it once

never put it back on

[hollow escarp]

does the buff scale with ilvl?

or just the main stat on it?

[solar hare]

yeah the secondary scales with ilvl

[visual prairie]

it can buff you? i though it just broke roots

and restored mana

[hollow escarp]

didn't knew about roots yet

[visual prairie]

maybe a 300 execute

[dire violet]

IQD is really good lol. Especially in Keys.

[gusty mirage]

yeah it randomly picks one of your highest secondaries and gives you a shit ton

[solar hare]

kind of a lot at 226

718

[gusty mirage]

STOP IT, I DON'T WANT TO USE IT

[solar hare]

pretty large

[hollow escarp]

tbf, if it gave mana to your healer during pride, I think it's worth it

[limber lion]

Yeah it can remove cc, not just roots.

[gusty mirage]

imagine not having a hpal in keys

[solar hare]

imagine being selfless

[gusty mirage]

[solar hare]

[visual prairie]

i'm kidding. i use it on my druid.

[limber lion]

I just use it for stats everytime, I'm a greedy boy

[visual prairie]

i don't have it on my rogue yet.

[hollow escarp]

pretty good for a 194

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

I have that at 203 on my ww monk

[visual prairie]

it's really strong if you get crit right before convoke

[solar hare]

57 agi

[gusty mirage]

its actually insane

[limber lion]

What's insane is the cooldown of the trinket

[hollow escarp]

I have it on rogue and hunter

[limber lion]

Like it gives similar amount of secondary as IQD

But on HALF the cd

[hollow escarp]

I use it on my hunter all the time

[gusty mirage]

yeah that's so much mastery for such a low cd

[hollow escarp]

if only we liked Mastery that much

[limber lion]

I got 696 Crit from my 220 IQD

[limber lion]

I know right :''(

[gusty mirage]

everytime I log on my monk I link it to my RL (who's a boomkin) and he just responds with "fuck you"

[hollow escarp]

there is the haste leaf

I got it a few times

but always disenchanted it

[limber lion]

Our RL is also a boomie who has really awful trinkets and it's always fun to see him opening up vaults every wednesday

And be disappointed everytime.

[gusty mirage]

tell him to convoke himself a new trinket

[hollow escarp]

ngl, RL and officer as boomie is a wasted spot

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

survival, rogue, enha are good specs for officers

so you can play them in raid

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

I wanted to push this week, but I didn't find a group to do any keys with

[agile ledge]

@limber lion This is me with weapons. im 6/10m and had a 213 and a 207 until just last week.

[limber lion]

And I can't get into a pug to save my life.

[solar hare]

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

I pretty much have all 19's and I can't get into a +20

I've queued easily into more than 100 groups so far.

[hollow escarp]

I never had a rogue raid lead

it's always tank or some ranged

[limber lion]

[solar hare]

our rl is vdh tank ofc

[fleet anchor]

Rogue Officers are strange? wut? 😮

[hollow escarp]

actually I kinda have a holy pala RL now

not strange

but never played with any myself

also, rogues are usually too arrogant to fit 2 in the same roster

[agile ledge]

Quick question. How important is it to pool energy right before shiv? I was trying to be really good about it and trying to get 2-3 envenoms each time until recently when I just started using it on CD and I felt like my dps went up.

[gusty mirage]

same, but my tank decided to take a sabbatical... so now I gear a tank and I tank for my group

[limber lion]

You should pool before Shiv, but you should not delay using Shiv because of it.

[hollow escarp]

yes, but don't hold shiv just to wait for energy. You will get used to it over time

[limber lion]

Which means that you have to think 10s ahead

And pool energy/CP ahead of time

And not when the ability comes off CD.

[limber lion]

[visual prairie]

think ahead? no thanks.

[fleet anchor]

Guild I ran for years back from vanilla through Cata always had a Rogue officer buddy, and I've been an officer of my current guild for like 6-7 years 😄

[hollow escarp]

actually, do you even lose dps if you are always pooling outside cooldowns?

[balmy condor]

yeah imagine not being a rogue guild lead am I right

[hollow escarp]

just not overcapping

[gusty mirage]

I was hoping they'd say no but then my healer goes "You know these dungeons better than most" and I'm like fuck

[hollow escarp]

I was about to say edging the energy bar

[fleet anchor]

So I think I've literally never been in a WoW guild since launch without a Rogue officer lol

[limber lion]

I wish I had a good guild to raid with. I can't find a good home for myself

[agile ledge]

Alright. Thanks very much. I actually have a couple more simple questions now that I think about it. As a sin rogue I dont feel like I contribute much to the add that pops in and makes the current boss invincible on council. Is it worth actually swapping to it, or should I just stay on the boss and lose a little dps?

Also, what should I be doing with the waiters? Since I dont have any aoe talents, I feel like im kind of just spamming FOK and thats all I can really do.

[limber lion]

You can slam one Envenom on the add, but there's not much you can do.

[fleet anchor]

I mean it's worth swapping to because what else are you gonna do?

😄

[gusty mirage]

My last 4 guilds had zero rogue officers, this current one had one officer reroll rogue

[limber lion]

Don't fret about it even if you're the bottom dps

[gusty mirage]

and now he just spams me with questions on discord, and now I understand why Whispyr hates us all

[limber lion]

But like Koji said, it's still the best thing you can do in that situation.

[hollow escarp]

I don't do that much damage to them but I still got more attendant damage than our ele shaman

[fleet anchor]

At the very least can use a few Mutilates on it to build CP

[agile ledge]

I guess it just feels like im not getting much out of the gcd and energy + CP on the add.

[limber lion]

Even if it's

[fleet anchor]

Low CP Rupture will basically fill your Energy bar for your trouble so

[limber lion]

Or be an OG and snipe it with rupture

[fleet anchor]

Not like you're losing anything

[limber lion]

Koji thinking alike

[agile ledge]

Oh right... I get the energy back when it dies. I forgot about that. I guess I really am terrible at this spec lol

[fleet anchor]

It's all good, just takes practice

[limber lion]

That's okay! Practice makes perfect

[agile ledge]

[balmy condor]

jokes on you, perfection doesn't need practice

[agile ledge]

#bornwithit right?

[fleet anchor]

Wrong region, sry! 😛

[balmy condor]

[hollow escarp]

I don't wanna be toxic

but Kazzak is not a good home

[balmy condor]

yes you do wtf don't lie to yourself

[hollow escarp]

ok, I do

[limber lion]

Maybe he's born with it, maybe it's Maybelline

[vestal wren]

practice needs knowlage, you can easy practice something wrong for a long time

[balmy condor]

the joke is that I'm already fuu

but thank you for the educational adage

:)

[gusty mirage]

rumor has it fuu's like 50

[fleet anchor]

People say "practice makes perfect" but it's more like "perfect practice makes better" 😛

[limber lion]

It's okay, I'm very positive and I'm sure I'll find a great bunch of folks in EU eventually!

[balmy condor]

cev I just gagged

don't ever say that shit again

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[hollow escarp]

you will find them on Alliance Cev

[vestal wren]

do we talk about wow?

[limber lion]

Positive vibes only!

[hollow escarp]

best english guild on EU is rank 168

[gusty mirage]

Cev makes me feel better about my stupid, leave em alone 😦

[hollow escarp]

not bad

right?

[fleet anchor]

If EU was any good why did I move back to the US?!

[visual prairie]

some people say "If I can't practice, I can't practice man. If I'm hurt, I'm hurt. ... We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice"

[gusty mirage]

ty allen iverson

[fleet anchor]

If you're as good at Rogue as Allen Iverson was at basketball, you would skip practicing in WoW too 😄

[gusty mirage]

tru

[vestal wren]

if its for wow, the foundation is knowledge.
You can obtain knowledge through experience, testing and analyzing/critical thinking.

[hollow escarp]

yeah, and play a good class

[fleet anchor]

Allen Iverson was just a raid logger who shows up and 99% parses, we've all been there

[limber lion]

Yeah, this gets preached in the classical world daily. You can practice violin for 5 hours terribly and get little results, or practice for 2 hours well and get amazing results.

Quality practice = Quantity of practice

[balmy condor]

or not practice violin and pass with a C for your degree

[vestal wren]

^^

[gusty mirage]

C's get degrees got me through law school

[hollow escarp]

I was about to ask that about medical school

[vestal wren]

you will always need a bit of practice, because you need to build a certain amount of muscle memory to peform

in pc games

[gusty mirage]

any grad school like that your goal is to not drown

[balmy condor]

are you at risk of losing your raid spot? if no, no practice needed

[hollow escarp]

that's why I perform better with more than 1 rogue in raid?

[gusty mirage]

all the other rogues rerolled because they were frustrated, SPOT SECURED BABY

[spice spire]

Damn I was about to @ oxi too :/

[vestal wren]

if you invested time into the game its easier to maintian a raid spot

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire

[hollow escarp]

enjoy your unholy dks bitches

[limber lion]

I finally got into a +19 PF group and everyone but me is 1.3k

wat

[gusty mirage]

one rerolled fire mage, one rerolled udk. Assa got buffed, my priest friend feeds me PI because he likes me more

= recipe for success

[limber lion]

What a bunch of gamers

[vestal wren]

you can optain gear advantage over other raiders by playing more, its one of the most popular approaches to secure a raid spot

[solar hare]

[hollow escarp]

that's actually the way I got my raid spot, the guilds that rejected me first month of SL because I'm a rogue, are now recruiting raiders because people got tired of prog

[gusty mirage]

I know some people check out warcraft logs for people they're on the fence about and good parses are the deciding factor

[burnt star]

Omg cev!!!

[spice spire]

Long con

[gusty mirage]

plus they prolly want you to shroud to first boss

[hollow escarp]

melee actually appreciate that

it's like 18 dps gain

[gusty mirage]

I'm a petty and spiteful person Kojack

I don't shroud anyone into the boss in raid

fuck em

🙂

[spice spire]

Now that’s toxic

[hollow escarp]

tbf, I stopped on some raids

because people think they can hug the boss

while in shroud

[gusty mirage]

can't spell toxic without oxi

which is also on my friend's PI macro

[visual prairie]

eh, when prepot stopped being a timing issue i just said, you'll be fine

if you really want to be on top of the boss, roll venthyr and precast door of shadows

[hollow escarp]

yeah, and open outside stealth

like a chad

[visual prairie]

i mean, for the people missing shroud

rogues don't need shroud

[hollow escarp]

true

thought you meant rogues

[gusty mirage]

just troll them by casting shroud and cancelling it

[hollow escarp]

lmao

[limber lion]

Okay the group died, who would have thought

[hollow escarp]

did that in BFA when pull timer was 20 sec

for mages

[limber lion]

Our tank pulled both of the slimy-boys before the first boss

[gusty mirage]

a buncha 1.3k io people in a 19? I can't imagine what woulda went wrong

LMFAO

[limber lion]

Then we killed one of them and it spawned pride

https://gyazo.com/ae596177b3462e0eac717c334bebfbe8

This big slimy boy

Is not the boss

It's the trash mob

[gusty mirage]

nah man

that's the boss now

[limber lion]

It's literally twice as big as Pride

[gusty mirage]

Captain Phillips style

[limber lion]

Yeah apparently lmao

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-phillips-look-at-me-im-the-captain-now-gif-5038544

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

I wish there was cross region play 😦

[limber lion]

Yeah they were a 10/10 guild group apparently

So this might have very well been the reason I got in

[gusty mirage]

I'd run keys w/ you

[hollow escarp]

different publishers

also some bs EU laws

[limber lion]

Yeh that would be fun 😦

[gusty mirage]

esp when I get my tank geared up, I'd run keys with the boys from RH

[limber lion]

I'm sure the RH boys would appreciate a tank

It would make pugging a key so much easier as well if you duo with a tank

[gusty mirage]

and I got a pocket rsham ez

[limber lion]

Or well at that point you might as well push the key yourself.

[gusty mirage]

nah man good rogues are super hard to find tbh

good dps in general are super hard to find

[hollow escarp]

I can find you buyers for 3rd dps spot

[gusty mirage]

sold

[brave vector]

So we use shiv on CD, if you’re in a 2 target cleave situation and you shiv one target but rupture is about to fall off on the other, do you refresh the rupture or pump an envenom into the shiv target?

[gusty mirage]

I'm down to 1 mil in my guild bank on my alt

[limber lion]

You keep the bleeds up.

TheRussianHacker says "Safety is number one priority"

But we say "Bleeds are number one priority"

[hollow escarp]

start boosting, how do you think I did 10 keys for weekly vault this week?

[brave vector]

Ideally I guess I set it up so that I don’t have to press rupture during shiv but that’s probably a minimal optimization no?

[gusty mirage]

that's why I made a tank in bfa for sales

made so much gold between that and having 2 alchemist toons w/ the stone for prosperity that I got a longboi

[radiant fossil]

Guys, can i ask you why we dont use flagellation after vanish so we can crit and do huge damage with it ?

[gusty mirage]

you get more value out of the envenoms

[limber lion]

Because the sims don't show a gain in doing that.

Honestly you can do that if you want, I doubt it'll change anything.

[radiant fossil]

Ok ok. Make sense. Sry for that dumb question ^^

[limber lion]

Swapping one gcd around in your opener won't change much.

[drifting light]

Hey guys, I dont find BOEs on raidbots droptimizer, am I blind?

[visual prairie]

how many fingers am I holding up ? 🤟

[burnt star]

5

your hand is up

[visual prairie]

thumbs aren't fingers.

[amber mountain]

thumbs technically ARE fingers

they're specialized fingers

[visual prairie]

bah

[burnt star]

they are though

[limber lion]

You can use Gear Compare for BoE's.

[visual prairie]

not mine

[drifting light]

Ty

[hot field]

Hey everyone, sorry if this was answered, but I couldn’t find anything. Is there anyplace that explains how exactly haste benefits us? If there is any caps or DRs? I’m just coming back from a long hiatus, which I dropped off from WoD/Legion, where we were focusing on Mastery

[limber lion]

There are no breakpoints or stat caps, but there are diminishing returns. You should just sim your character using Raidbots.com and Top Gear to see which items and stats benefit your character the most.

It's not very cut and dry as to which stat is the best, because it depends on your current gear and how much stats you have currently, what items you are using, what legendary, which covenant, which talents etc.

We get energy regeneration and attack speed from haste, and our bleeds tick faster the more haste you have.

[hot field]

Gotcha, my mind is cosmically blown, with the amount of shit going on.

[limber lion]

No worries. Just focus on getting as much primary stat from ilvl upgrades as you can and don't even look at secondaries.

You can start focusing on your secondaries and swapping things out when you get to higher item levels (like 220+)

[hot field]

Gotcha, was hoping there was a mathematical answer to that, such as X amount of haste will provide X amount Energy per sec and X amount of bleed haste

[limber lion]

ilvl is generally king, just like Ion Hazzikostas wanted.

[visual prairie]

well there are mathematical answers to that, but it doesn't mean that you want to get to some specific number

or that over some number it's useless

[limber lion]

There is, but it's unnecessary information and most things in our spec work dynamically

Meaning that there are no breakpoints to work toward.

If you see people recommending some jank % values to build yourself to, don't believe them.

They are either ignorant or they are meming.

[hot field]

Gotcha, big thanks for the advice, to recap, focus on iLvl, focus haste, worry about secondary at 220+

[limber lion]

Most likely meming if it's 34%

[hollow escarp]

I know some streamers that do that

[limber lion]

Yeah that sounds like a good plan to stick to.

[mellow pier]

34% is crit cap

[hollow escarp]

I'm ahead of the curve

[gusty mirage]

he's CHEATING

ban him

[mellow pier]

Stats are so irrelevant that I don’t even know mine

[cosmic kelp]

Do you do anything specially during flagellation? Or continue business as usual

[hollow escarp]

and that's with haste ring enchants and versa sockets

[gusty mirage]

same tbh

[visual prairie]

i think about my sins

[gusty mirage]

I just know I probably need more crit lmao

[mellow pier]

Oh do u have crit and or haste

I like u

[stoic needle]

I could have 35% if my mastery was crit

[gusty mirage]

all I know is it's somewhere between 0% and under 30%

[hollow escarp]

sims tell me to drop crit and take haste

[stoic needle]

Pepehands

[mellow pier]

My sims want full crit

[hollow escarp]

in Dslice I mean

[mellow pier]

Oh

[gusty mirage]

I'd have to guestimate low 20s

[hollow escarp]

but dslice is dslice

[mellow pier]

I wouldn’t play sin in a key

[gusty mirage]

if only dslice was a pizza slice

cuz I'm hungry

[mellow pier]

Sounds like aids

[limber lion]

You try to pool energy/combo points before Flag. You use Flag just before a finisher.

[hollow escarp]

yeah, you either love it or hate it

[limber lion]

Other than that you continue normally.

[cosmic kelp]

Ty

[stoic needle]

That's a weird way to spell fun

[gusty mirage]

Osh wanna make $150?