assassination

[odd hazel]

you can also do the maw for them

[stoic needle]

Callings or sire

Don't waste stygia on it until you're going for 226+

[burnt star]

226 version shouldnt be from last mythic boss in raid imo

Kinda dumb they put it there

Specialy since its not garanteee

[old depot]

Oh ok. This is my alt, I'll probably down sire on it this week then

[limber lion]

The difference between a +213 and +226 conduit is literally under 10 dps

Don't worry about it

[odd hazel]

tbh, the way its going. i think sin will pass outlaw. unless something ridiculous happens

i mean

besides gems, what else do you use stygia on

[old depot]

Ya but apparently we have 3-4 months till new content so I guess everyone wants those 10dps gains here and there lol

[odd hazel]

a dps increase is a dps increase.

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure, but that should be the last thing you do tbh.

Grinding every single conduit to 213 and then gambling for a 226 Lashing is a bit of a pain in the ass

[old depot]

Oh yeah absolutely. I'm banking on venari rep being account bound so I haven't even farmed rep on my rogue lol

[limber lion]

If you do Maw every day, because you're crazy, then go for it

[stoic needle]

Being fully socketed is more of a gain than 226 lashing

Sockets are huge for sin

[cunning musk]

its like 30dps per socket

[odd hazel]

i wonder how much hast eyou would be at max ilvl +all sockets

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's massive

[cunning musk]

so like 150dps fully socketed

[stoic needle]

Most gear upgrades are like 30dps

I'm 1 socket away from having 30% crit

[limber lion]

Not that much because at high levels of haste you start gemming/building toward crit/vers.

[cunning musk]

Damn, sweet

I hit 28% yesterday

[stoic needle]

As venthyr my sims don't want me to go far past 20% haste

[old depot]

So another question for you fine folks. I follow WCL rankings closely each week, to see trends and changes. I'm noticing that Sin rogue is absolutely crushing heroic CN, but in Mythic CN they perform lower relative to other classes. Is this because rogues are going into Heroic as Sin to parse and pump for fun? Or are the mechanics incorporating more cleave/etc

[stoic needle]

Change the metric to damage to bosses

You'll like what you see

[old depot]

Oh I hadn't though about doing that. I'll check that out

[odd hazel]

Sin isnt great at AoE but

IT PUMMPPSSS ST - 1/2/3 target cleave

the envenom crits are so juicy

[limber lion]

Just looked at mythic statistics and Assa is currently #6 in overall dps and #1 in boss damage. I think we're doing just fine.

[odd hazel]

rouges do fine---besides sub and even then sub has its places for big burst.

[old depot]

Ya I didn't mean to say it was performing poorly. It's just in Heroic they are top 3 or something and then they fall off to top 6ish in mythic

[chrome mirage]

tfw no more raid tiers in SL to pump on

[limber lion]

Not really because Sub doesn't actually have big burst.

Assa bursts harder than Sub.

[odd hazel]

really? i thought peeps used sub for certain mechanics in mythic. or was that before patch?

[limber lion]

Sub's niche is funnel/priority damage.

[old depot]

Sub wasn't beating even outlaw in ST AFAIK

[limber lion]

It was great in Council

[outer cairn]

I'd still probably eventually make Akaari's just to play something else in raid for shits and giggles. I still love sub. Wish we still had DfA that's not a pvp talent

[stoic needle]

I still think with full CDs popped sub does more damage in a symbols dance blades window than sin does In a shiv window but after that sin does more

[wise gull]

Council is gonna die tonight, I can feel it

3% nik wipe last raid night

also a 14% nik wipe where the tank forgot to jump off dancing fever stacks when everyone else was alive

[strange python]

I'm simming 300 dps lower with the same exact gear and no talent changes when simming my vault lol

[patent topaz]

I did a top gear for a target dummy fight on accident and ep + vigor is +38 dps over blindside + ds

interesting

[outer cairn]

Well most ppl probably don't build then pool the vanish envenom, mut, envenom. they probably just pop vendetta, vanish mut envenom, mut

and then run out of energy and

[charred mango]

hmmmmm

[limber lion]

Jeez

[strange python]

E Z

[stoic needle]

i hope you step on many legos today

[stoic needle]

you too

like wtf

[slender berry]

i wish that 220 trinket was phial

[stoic needle]

what is wrong with you

that's just evil

[slender berry]

just punishment for doing below not enough 14 keys

[stoic needle]

well excuse me for boosting

[gloomy fern]

nice game, jumps of stolen dog in maw and insta die with full hp

[stoic needle]

lmao yeah thats a weird bug

[slender berry]

maw is a scary place , i dc like twice a week for pressing spacebar

[stoic needle]

i've never dc'd in the maw

is that an eu thing

[slender berry]

maybe

always happens when you jump off anything a bit higher

[icy crater]

crit haste 226 cloak from box, only 1 reward pog

[slender berry]

our hunters also often dc when disengaging the knockback from slg

[gloomy fern]

why would u keep doing it then instead of going into corner

[dark token]

https://i.imgur.com/3fVHuLb.png

[gloomy fern]

sad about bis ring

[stoic needle]

I climb rocks constantly in the maw and never get dc

[dark token]

wdym, dual raid rings are bis. Sire + lady

[stoic needle]

arachnid cipher ring is on par with inerva and sire ring

[gloomy fern]

lady is basically same as 2 dung rings

just more skewed on haste/crit etc

[dark token]

this ring is skewed crit while lady/sire skew haste. i already have a bunch of crit so this may be good for dungeons but id rather haste heavy rings tbh

[stoic needle]

are you venthyr?

[dark token]

yeah

[stoic needle]

You will want more crit than haste

i'm at about 30% crit now and both the sire and inerva rings sim as dps downgrades for me

[shell ivy]

Isn’t ToP ring bis too?

[stoic needle]

yeah i have that at 226 and cipher at 220

[shell ivy]

👌 been trying to farm it

[dark token]

i have both at 220

so its a 6 ilvl up i guess

[gloomy fern]

bin ur mastery ring

but sim

[dark token]

wheres my 226 phial tho

[stoic needle]

[uneven plume]

Fleshcraft and cipher ring are the best upgrades for me

Fleshstitch*

Actually

Best upgrade was fleshstitch ring and the bloodoath top ring

Fleshstitch ring has a fuck ton of haste on it

Like 160 for 220 ilvl

Sitting at 29% crit and 24% haste

15 mastery and 18 vers

Hard hitter ;D

[stoic needle]

one socket away from 30%

[uneven plume]

Are you necro?

[stoic needle]

venthyr

[uneven plume]

That’s a lot of mastery

😮

Mastery and vers stats don’t rly matter on which is higher or not right

It’s mostly crit and haste you want high

[stoic needle]

didn't really have much of a choice in the matter just kept getting 226 items with mastery on them

[dark token]

youll be a dungeon pro

mastery/crit fat for m+

[wide ridge]

is this shit good?

all other rewards are worse/equal

[uneven plume]

Absolutely not

[wide ridge]

eh

stygia it is then

[stoic needle]

its not that bad actually

[dark token]

its better than you think but

[stoic needle]

the proc is hasted

[dark token]

sim it

[stoic needle]

its good for m+

[uneven plume]

For ST it’s not good

[stoic needle]

yeah

[uneven plume]

For m+ might as well go outlaw if you want to get into group lol

[stoic needle]

i mean i got ksm as sin

nobody cares what spec you are for keys lol

[uneven plume]

I got ksm at 180 Ilvl playing dancing steel

[stoic needle]

unless you're pushing 22+

[uneven plume]

I’m talking about pushes

Lol

Only pushes with keys for me

15s you can do with no gear on

[dark token]

sin is fine until like

22s

lol

[stoic needle]

you have to realize that only like 2% of the playerbase actually pushes keys

[icy haven]

@stoic needle man you dont even know how wrong you are, ive gotten kicked so many times for playing sin

[dark token]

it does more dps than outlaw actually

in my experience

you just have much less utility

[stoic needle]

i got kicked all of one time playing sin in pug keys

[uneven plume]

Outlaw is meta for keys because of distance

[stoic needle]

90% of my keys are pugged

[uneven plume]

And constant dps

[icy haven]

atleast 7 times here

[uneven plume]

I feel like sin is too volatile in dps

[icy haven]

and from 9s n shit aswell

[dark token]

this + gouge and you can use shiv for utility instead of your rotation

[uneven plume]

Can do a shit ton

[dark token]

also more cp = easier kidneys

[uneven plume]

But fall off of bleeds not circulating

If*

[stoic needle]

having played both, both specs have pretty consistent damage

[uneven plume]

Last time I played sin in keys was echo 3/3 TD first pull

[stoic needle]

outlaw just has more utility and an easier to execute rotation

[uneven plume]

Lmaoo

[dark token]

i like playing sin in a pug key and then do like 14k on first boss while mage/boomy are at 8k and i see them target me like WTF rogue is beating me on boss

thats satisfying to me

[uneven plume]

Rogues beat mages and boomies on boss fights almost all the time

[stoic needle]

sin needs to do like 20% more damage to be able to compete with outlaw for high key pushing

[uneven plume]

Except a convoked boss

But after convoke dps levels out

While rogue can constant stay at 8-14k

[icy crater]

constant and 8-14k don't belong in the same sentence

[dark token]

https://i.imgur.com/ZKNkM4V.png its hard to get rid of mastery

[uneven plume]

Damn y’all got hit with mastery loot eh

I have like 44 added mastery from baseline

Because of heroic sire helm

[stoic needle]

mastery is fun

and good in M+

big envenoms

i have neck, helm, legs, belt with mastery

[uneven plume]

I saw the CN recent dps charts

Feel like sin is much higher

Than where it is

[dark token]

this in general is a fairly cleave heavy raid imo

council/SLG/sun king drag us down a lot

[uneven plume]

Council I feel like is still ST unless you wanna pad

But yah

I know what you mean

[dark token]

the attendants make it a little rough for sin as our target swap isnt great

but if you look at boss dps

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#sample=7&dataset=99&metric=bossdps

[uneven plume]

Yah boss dps we are up there

[dark token]

this will pretty much guarantee us a prog spot on any ST or execute boss

which is bigger than outlaw/sub niches so im happy

[uneven plume]

What are you sitting at Patchwerk dps?

I’m around 6600

[old merlin]

!legendary

[shy dust]

!pins

[old merlin]

Hey guys which leggo would yall recommend for raiding

[shy dust]

check the pins

[old merlin]

Doom or zoldyck

I had some people say zoldyck was better

[shy dust]

Doom generally

[old merlin]

because of the execute

[shy dust]

Zoldyck is stronger for sire prog

[old merlin]

gotcha

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[old merlin]

Thank you! @shy dust

[plush oasis]

The vault is making me choose between Darkvein's trinket and a weapon. This is the last time I can get that trinket because we're locking out.

Weapon sims better, but the trinket would replace mythic skulkers.

[icy haven]

did you sim the skulk against the darkvein?

[slender berry]

skulkers and darkvein are basically the same for where it matters during progress

[plush oasis]

Yes, they sim very close.

[slender berry]

id take the wep

[icy haven]

yea, take the weapon

[plush oasis]

I think I have to get the weapon even though it has mastery.

Benefits the offspec as well.

[slender berry]

mastery isnt that bad if youre progressing denathrius and go zoldyck

actually sims highest for me for execute

[plush oasis]

Interesting.

[icy haven]

i mean if it didnt sim highest for exe it would be weird 😄

[slender berry]

not that weird

all other stats also effect your dots

[pastel roost]

where can i find and up to date guide ?

[timid coral]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

Just broke 6800 today

[icy crater]

6811 today with new cloak

[stoic needle]

If I get boe bracers and cloak after I transfer I should be 6850 or 6900

[icy crater]

if you got phial you'd be 7k

but here we are

[silent fossil]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kLhPJG7PBGjZTzGSTt5TDT
idk what’s in my vault tho at work

[limber lion]

7k

[uneven plume]

Hmm I don’t think I’d be able to hit 7k unless im venthyr

I pretty much have almost the same gear as that

That looks pretty bis so I’m assuming my peak as necro is around 6800

[safe canopy]

my stat weights are so bad rn 27% haste and mastery

[uneven plume]

What’s the crit?

[safe canopy]

19

[limber lion]

That's a lot of haste. Are you Venthyr or something else?

[safe canopy]

venthyr

[limber lion]

Yeh that's a bit much

[safe canopy]

yeah just the drops ive been getting unfortunately

[uneven plume]

Shouldn’t crit also be like around 25%

Well shouldn’t but recommended

[vast patio]

How does doomblade feel in m+? I read the pins, just curious about any quirks with playing it in aoe/cleave

[safe canopy]

i accidentally left it on for a m+ last week and i did noticeably less overall

[vast patio]

I'm doing it mostly for better raid performance since my outlaw legos are maxed.

[uneven plume]

I think zoldyck is best because you can have more than 4 targets at execute hp

[vast patio]

But curious for tyrant or whatever

Tyrannical*

[rough grove]

You'd still go Zoldyck's for the execute

[vast patio]

Right on.

[limber lion]

It's fine in smaller packs where you use muti/env more (3 or less)

[vast patio]

I'll craft thst next

[limber lion]

Very bad in bigger packs as you don't use either on those

[vast patio]

I assume you tab target mut

[rough grove]

I suppose a dungeon like Theater would be something you could fiddle with Doomblade, but still Zoldyck

[bitter drift]

No just garrote and rupture

[vast patio]

Does it stack if you just dump muts into the same guy?

No lost damage

[rough grove]

Garrote the 3 targets, Rupture everything else, but then Doomblade is purely single target though, so

[bitter drift]

@vast patio

[rough grove]

Then there is the envenom part of the leggo too. Which unless you're purely for priority target, it's pretty weird to use in M+

[limber lion]

Yes, works the same way as Fire Mage's ignite.

[rigid tartan]

this ignite style mechanic.. is that confirmed? is it no increase to spread it on different targets in cleave?

[limber lion]

... Yes

[bitter drift]

Yes that’s confirmed.

[limber lion]

The legendary has been in the game for the whole of Shadowlands my boy

[rigid tartan]

dang i was busy mutilating rotating on mythic danny p2 xD

[limber lion]

I hope no one is spreading misinformation and saying that you should muti different targets.

[bitter drift]

He probably just assumed

[rigid tartan]

i didnt look into it i must say i just followed my instinct...

[subtle tundra]

you can just hover over the dot and see it dinamically change

[slender berry]

lets start a petition to make the muti bleed spread like bfa ignite

[limber lion]

And make an op legendary even more op and eventually causing Blizzars to nerf the whole spec

I'll skip

:p

[rigid tartan]

we are in such a good place right now lets not change anything for assa xD

[hushed sphinx]

I keep seeing dashing scoundrel getting mentioned on icy veins and stuff but I've never seen anyone actually using it

[subtle tundra]

its just good but not better than doomblade so no reason to get it

[stoic needle]

It's arguably better than doomblade in m+ and lets you target swap better which is more useful for progression

It's got it's uses

[polar cape]

does bonespike work with zoldyck, i forgot

[cerulean nest]

is there a loose benchmark we should shoot for for haste? (don't yell at me)

just deciding between great vault options

[shy dust]

Just sim it

[silent fossil]

not rly. you can sim the vault

[shy dust]

You can sim options in great vault

[turbid harbor]

If you’re worried about how the spec feels, even with low haste it feels good as venthyr with blindside

Practically never starved

[shy dust]

That’s just false

[cerulean nest]

yeah I am. the upgrade I would choose basically bring my sub and sin within 50 dps of each other. but i'm wayyyy more comfortable playing sub so I feel like I wouldn't be putting that 50 to good use as sin

[shy dust]

Sin apm is still low

[cerulean nest]

apm?

[turbid harbor]

Actions per minute

[stoic needle]

seems odd to me that your sin doesn't outsim sub even with unoptimized gear

[cerulean nest]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kMw6tkfaJZikTy7FqFYrMQ

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wHeX6J5kLaG48g47uFrbkC

[stoic needle]

ah you're night fae

that's why

[cerulean nest]

yeah

how big would the boost be you think for venth?

[silent fossil]

a lot

you can sim that too

sim it with the flag conduit

[stoic needle]

yeah idk off the top of my head but top gear does other covenants

lashing scars + dauntless duelist

[tribal marsh]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bKDA5w5vXjgoosKq2dLTrd

Anyone fuck around with shadowgrasp totem?

Because sim city is telling me to use it

and it might be a fucky trinket to use

[burnt star]

U use on cd like other trinket

Unless mob is about to die

[stoic needle]

Yeh i don't see how it's complicated

[burnt star]

Its actualy.pretty strong tbh

Well its not the best...... but if sims tells u it is. Keep it until sims says otherwise

[unkempt ginkgo]

Is zold a significant dps increase in M+? Cuz my dslice sims have it the same with doomblade?

[stoic needle]

in most situations yes. doomblade is only really good on single target and small pack sizes, any time you get into larger aoe(and you will) it loses out a lot to zoldyck

doomblade is only really useable for TOP, SD, and plaguefall, other than that zoldyck or MA is better

[bitter drift]

Deathly shadows may be best on SLG, at minimum it's more viable for Sin than I thought

[stoic needle]

how is it best on slg?

i'm about to craft deathly actually lol

it sims higher than my vers/mastery MA for dslice for outlaw

deathly sims really badly for sin though

[bitter drift]

just seems to do well on there

[unkempt ginkgo]

And you would still use zoldyck on tyrannical weeks on non TOP/SD/PF dungeons right

[stoic needle]

yes

[stoic needle]

can you link this log? i dont see it on warcraftlogs

the top log on WCL is using zoldyck

[bitter drift]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hw9ALzpGrcqamyQX#fight=41&type=damage-done

[stoic needle]

yeah dude he's using zoldyck, not deathly

lol

[bitter drift]

Oh, my b, should have clarified that wasn't a Deathly log, just think it will do well on SLG

[stoic needle]

idk man, sin doesn't have any way to reduce vanish CDR

it simmed pretty bad the last time i tried it

[bitter drift]

Just like I think Doomblade Shoulders are the way to go

[burnt star]

Also they are only 4 healing

Not something u will be able to achieve in a prog group

Number wise.. doesnt change anything for the leggo discussion though

[wary ice]

IDK deathly doesnt do anything for sin; at least in comparison to what it'd do for outlaw (and i dont even think its good there)

[balmy condor]

But but but but mr Steamer sir used it in a key it must be giga

[limber lion]

Deahtly is awful, don't use it

[wary ice]

I have a 190 deathly for cheesing Sub parses

[bitter drift]

I see Whispyr finally understands giga streamer > sims

[wary ice]

and thats i think the extent of it

[limber lion]

Also what is this ep ma vig ct combo

Hollymolly

[balmy condor]

Yeah dude, I run Assassination in necrotic wake because I was told ma talent still works on weapons

And I’m too stupid to know any better

[stoic needle]

deathly isn't that bad for outlaw but it seems to be pretty shit for sin

[bitter drift]

^ that's a good move Whisp

[wary ice]

I'm just stupid enough to get excited by that sentence

[limber lion]

And too stupid to try it out yourself or check reputable sources if it works like that or not.

[gleaming eagle]

did they

nerf something?

i used to sim for 6k

now its 5.5k ?

[limber lion]

No

[limber lion]

You must be doing something differently

[wary ice]

do you have both sims?

[balmy condor]

you think I’m gonna waste ash on deathly to test it?

[limber lion]

Wrong talents, wrong items or soulbinds ot something

[balmy condor]

Fucking dogshit legendary

[gleaming eagle]

let me test

[wary ice]

chances are ones using lust and windfury the other isnt

[wary ice]

I already did

I'll get back to you

[balmy condor]

Oh no

I’m so sorry

[stoic needle]

same

[balmy condor]

For your loss

[stoic needle]

i'm trying to see what stats to put on it

imagine us wanting to have fun in the video game

[wary ice]

we'll see whos sorry when my sample size of 1 says it works

[limber lion]

I was talking about MA, but I guess the point stands for Deathly as well

[balmy condor]

Aight aight aight

You want to know

How trash deathly is

[burnt star]

Also in your sample. I expect u to only link the first 20 sec of a lust + pride + cd on boss

[stoic needle]

i'm simming it rn whispyr i gotchu

[limber lion]

If a rank 1 person is saying something is good, it must be good. I don't see you on the leaderboards, mr. Whispyr

[wary ice]

please dude I've done statistics before

[balmy condor]

It’s so bad, when I simmed the legendaries for the pins

I didn’t include it out of spite

[wary ice]

its literally going to be a screen shot of 2 javilen ticks that both crit

[gleaming eagle]

ah

nvm

[balmy condor]

And literally no one has noticed

[wary ice]

and im going to say "if it was 50% one shouldnt have crit. qed"

[gleaming eagle]

that was execute phase sim @limber lion

[stoic needle]

including ttb but not deathly

[vestal wren]

I didn’t include it out of spite
what information did you hide

[balmy condor]

Like actually not a single person

Has noticed

That deathly isn’t there

[limber lion]

I wonder if it would slap on Sludge with IQD EP MA MFD

[balmy condor]

Fuck you

[vestal wren]

is it even good?

[balmy condor]

No

[vestal wren]

[balmy condor]

Truth be told, I have no idea why it didn’t get simmed

[wary ice]

We'll never know now

[limber lion]

Actual trash tier legendary

[balmy condor]

But if no ones missing it

No harm I guess

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6jLrJLG5hFckuhUF7LaPyU

[limber lion]

They said that about MA as well for Outlaw

Kek

[vestal wren]

we also never know if one of the non spec specific legendary powers is good 😛

(spoiler, they are all terrible)

[stoic needle]

just a 160 dps loss

[balmy condor]

I’m on mobile where is it on that list

[stoic needle]

nbd

[balmy condor]

Oh

Poggers

[stoic needle]

and yet https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mgBRkAA1HiFiakP3jmfo2a

[limber lion]

Whahat, you're saying the legendary where you get big deeps from killing a mawrat isn't good?

[vestal wren]

it might be good

in the next raid

[wary ice]

you gotta do it with NS

[vestal wren]

torghast/anima power encounter

[stoic needle]

why

[wary ice]

cause you get 5 cp

[limber lion]

I thought we survived the Deathly drama

[wary ice]

NS MA Garunteed like a 120 dps loss instead

[stoic needle]

but i will

[limber lion]

But I guess we're just getting started

[vestal wren]

but

[balmy condor]

To put it in perspective right

[limber lion]

Here we go boys

[vestal wren]

is deadly good in pvp?

[limber lion]

Hold on to your seats

[balmy condor]

Deathly gives 5 cp and damage from stealth

[stoic needle]

no lmao

[balmy condor]

MA

Wait for this

Gives cp and damage from stealth

[storm forum]

what is deathly?

[charred wraith]

W8

Is now deathly thing in sin channel

[balmy condor]

No

It’s giga not

[limber lion]

You've convinced me. I'm making Deathly tomorrow

[wary ice]

hoenstly dont worry about it (legendary, 5cp +15% damage on vanish)

[balmy condor]

We’re memeing on it

[limber lion]

See you on the flipside boys

[charred wraith]

May the God be with you

[storm forum]

oh the bad vanish lego

[vestal wren]

the cross spec legendary that gives you a damage amp and 5 cp after using vanish

[stoic needle]

isnt it a sub legendary tho

[balmy condor]

No

[vestal wren]

it was

[balmy condor]

It’s Cross

[vestal wren]

they changed it to a general legendary

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[vestal wren]

making subtlety the spec with the lowest amount of specific legendary powers (i think)

[wary ice]

yeah 0

[limber lion]

But Celerity is an Outlaw legendary and it worked for Assa/Sub as well, so I guess spec-specific legendaries are not spec-specific anyways

[balmy condor]

Ah, I’m sure they don’t need it

[wary ice]

we just got a bunch of old talent choices

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

i cannot be stopped

[vestal wren]

all 3 of the remaining sub rogues do need it!

[balmy condor]

True

[storm forum]

good luck

[limber lion]

!ban oshosi

[stoic needle]

i mean its like

[balmy condor]

“Whispyr how can you keep track of both sin and sub”

[stoic needle]

either i recraft MA again as haste/vers

[balmy condor]

Sin and who?

[stoic needle]

or i craft deathly

so i choose death(ly)

[storm forum]

its probably reasonable for outlaw, i havent looked at the sims but iirc restless blades affects vanish

[wary ice]

oh my no

at least start at 190 dude 😦

[stoic needle]

for outlaw deathly sims better than my vers/mast MA

i mean what else am i gonna spend it on? dashing?

[vestal wren]

i mean deathly still has uses

as a pre pull legendary

[wary ice]

Yeah thats why i have one

i figure until they blacklist my logs ima take my free opener

[balmy condor]

Oh no, has push been rotting your brain too

[vestal wren]

XD na

[burnt star]

Wait.. celerity works on other spec

U get a.r for 5 sec now and then?

[stoic needle]

no it doesn't

[vestal wren]

did you play in legion whispyr?

[limber lion]

Used to

[vestal wren]

where you did use wod legendary items pre pull

[balmy condor]

Yes I did, I played WoD as well

Wod rings

[vestal wren]

my point is, the practice of abusing pre pull snapshotting stuff is normal

[balmy condor]

Yeah I know

[vestal wren]

iirc there is some snapshotting stuff with necro too

and a still quite big list of bugs

[balmy condor]

NS “works” on sbs

[vestal wren]

yes, koji mentioned it once. I wasn't sure if its fixed but assume it isn't

[balmy condor]

Although it’s similar to the Antorus poison knife bug, where you have to have some distance nonsense in order for it to work

Yeah I brought it up to koji

He wasn’t happy

[uneven plume]

I wish they made sbs spell like torghast

[vestal wren]

is it on the issue tracker?

[uneven plume]

Where damage increases by 500%

At range

[vestal wren]

i think it isn't

[uneven plume]

[balmy condor]

Should be

I didn’t make one, but I think koji did

[limber lion]

Yeh. If you're a giga parser you can mfd the boss pre pull and switch it out for Vigor/DS and still have 3-4 combo points remaining for SnD

[subtle tundra]

i dont think you can

[stoic needle]

You'll never take me alive

[limber lion]

A lot of prepull shit you can do

With double on use trinkets

[subtle tundra]

iqd was fixed

[limber lion]

Yes you can. You use SnD before switching.

[storm forum]

what is the "issue tracker"?

[stoic needle]

You can't change talents with MfD on CD

[subtle tundra]

yea but can you swap from mfd

[vestal wren]

i think the best approach to mfd is still to just use it on cd pre pull (tho thats for subtlety that has no bad outcome for doing so)

[stoic needle]

I tried to do some mfd shenanigans in Torghast and they were kinda limited

[balmy condor]

Good thing a 5 point snd lasts longer than the cd on mfd

[vestal wren]

"alright, ill need a 40 sec pulltimer"

[stoic needle]

Yeah but what raid is gonna wait 30 more seconds just for your parse

[storm forum]

"and a tome"

[subtle tundra]

that parse being like 50 more dps at the end

[balmy condor]

Yep, cause you gotta mfd, and then mfd again to pandemic, and then swap out

So actually 70 seconds

[vestal wren]

true

[storm forum]

"and 2 tomes"

[subtle tundra]

well just tried it and you still have 4 cp after mfd comes off cd

[vestal wren]

70 sec pulltimer

[plain thistle]

reasonable, rl wont be mad

[balmy condor]

“Hold on guys I need to stack alacrity”

[charred wraith]

Cant you just place turnip (ive never tried, everybody would use it though)?

[stoic needle]

Not in raids

[vestal wren]

did they fix the bug with the maw weapons?

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[vestal wren]

also with the mailbox cheese?

[balmy condor]

Yep

[stoic needle]

I wish I'd used it there was like 2 weeks where the maw xbow was useable

Mailbox cheese?

[vestal wren]

you in essence did have a full inventory and picked up the maw weapon to get it to your mailbox

then used a mailbox in raid

[stoic needle]

Lol

[storm forum]

thats incredible

[stoic needle]

Yeah they can't be removed from the maw anymore

[vestal wren]

i just remembered some ppl mention a log with it

[stoic needle]

A hunter

Didn't even get r1

[vestal wren]

[wary ice]

thats just a break timer lol

[pale knot]

was the nerf to master assassin leggo also for the talent ? that it dosent work with items?

[vestal wren]

i think the talent never worked with items

[stoic needle]

the talent never worked with items

[pale knot]

i guess just unluck with crits then

[vestal wren]

the reason ma worked with items was that it is a spell from legion that does not have those limitations added

class damage ampliefiers did work with items in legion too

in bfa they removed that interaction for balancing reasons

[wary ice]

RIP Draught

[vestal wren]

kj trinket, sisters trinket, draught

i rly dissliked the kj one because of the positional requirements

[soft shale]

draught was bae with sprint vanish

[long haven]

yo im bored in wow and decided to swap on my rogue to venthyr and trying out assa, really like it so far (feels way better on venthyr than on necro) i have some leftover dust, should i go for doomblade or zoldyck? i will only do m+ on my rogue

[balmy condor]

Zold

[long haven]

cheers will craft it tomorrow then

[cerulean nest]

does celestial/sinful rev matter on mainhand or offhand

or is it either one

[balmy condor]

Nop

Just put whatever you’re missing on

[true steppe]

is posting vault options in here ok?

[balmy condor]

Yeah but we’re just going to tell you to sim it

[true steppe]

haha copy. will do.

is the bottled flayedwing toxin worth picking up?

[balmy condor]

It’s pretty mediocre

But it can be okay if it’s a big iLvL jump over your current trinket

[true steppe]

I landed it in my vault @226. My other options are some jewelry that only has one of my prio stats.

[subtle tundra]

oh god when someone mentions "prio stats"

[true steppe]

lmao, sorry. I'm quite new to rogue.

[subtle tundra]

"prio stats" are kinda dead on all specs where you can sim ^^

[vestal wren]

your stat prio is: if it has mastery, you don't want it

for all 3 specs pretty much

[true steppe]

I'm less worried about the upgrade now. I want to make sure the 226 upgrades I choose last. I can always upgrade to 220 with drops from mythics.

After I upgrade my rings and trinkets, will this bottle last?

[wet lava]

Does flagellation benefit from Master Assassin talent?

[subtle tundra]

not really

hc trinkets are most likely better and phial from m+ is better

[balmy condor]

Yes

[wet lava]

so is vanish -> flagellation -> mutilate the real path?

if they line up

[stoic needle]

no it won't

you should probably get the necklace and farm for a phbial

[subtle tundra]

also youre more inclined of socketing a 226 rather than a 220

[true steppe]

that's useful information, ty @stoic needle

[stoic needle]

socketing 220s is kind of a waste

220 iqd and 220 phial would both be better than that flayedwing

[subtle tundra]

but make sure the neck doesnt have mastery ^^

[true steppe]

I was afraid of that.

Stitchflesh's ring with haste>vers.

[dense hamlet]

wait how long is p3 dena from 40%to mass ravage

[true steppe]

I just had some low lvl trinkets that was screwing my sims.

[candid token]

Would Ass be good-ish on Council for boss damage as opposed to Outlaw?

[true steppe]

anyway back to lurking.

[dense bramble]

so now that is fortified week, should i run my max rank doomblade or rank 1 zoldyck when pugging some 15+?

[candid token]

Not sure if the big damage from Law comes from adds n' stuff

[true steppe]

take care and gl on vaults.

[stoic needle]

Nothing wrong with mastery on a necklace tbh

[stoic needle]

zoldyck

[stoic needle]

definitely, sin does big boss damage

[dense bramble]

well it is pretty good since you can generate a ton of energy by garroting and rupturing another council boss

[candid token]

Nice nice, will prolly stick ass then. Is it worth using my 190 Zoldyck over 225 Doomblade?

Ir is Doomblade gonna do more

[dense bramble]

that i'll understand cause adds will live a lot but it i do a few lower keys like +10, you think i should keep rank 1 zoldyck or switch to max rkd doomblade?

[dense bramble]

doomblade

[candid token]

Aight, thanks for the help wise peoples

[dense bramble]

cuz you need singletarget damage

[stoic needle]

zoldyck still, even in a lower key you're executing for 30% of their hp

even if its a smaller amount of time it'll be more damage

[dense bramble]

i'm just afraid they will not live enough to proc a few bleeds

but i'l do that, thank you oshoshi

[cerulean nest]

how do I sim for consumes/oils etc. again?

[sour wraith]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[cerulean nest]

ty

[gaunt geyser]

hi guys i got question about trinket

Shulker's wing is it any good?

[soft shale]

yes it is quite good

[gaunt geyser]

thank you friend

[old depot]

Is legs the pref slot for Zolds? and what secondaries? Crit haste?

[gloomy fern]

yes

[prisma perch]

if in m+ and the adds die too fast should i just fok and spam ct?

[gloomy fern]

its a rather weak finisher so no point to spam

[prisma perch]

its the best dps i got in aoe cleave tho i tried xd

[uneven hamlet]

My 223 quantum device is simminng slightly more than my 226 inerva trinket, but quantum is a random proc, and inerva trinket isn't, should I go inerva trinket? What you guys think?

[gloomy fern]

well u use it for the bleeds and then use envenom

[strange python]

New to assassination, what’s the genera idea between spending combo points on spreading rupture vs spamming crimson tempest?

[gloomy fern]

if u got rupture etc up

[prisma perch]

no point in dotting they die way too fast

[gloomy fern]

no point in spamming ct anyawy

[strange python]

Well sure but not even low combo point ruptures?

[prisma perch]

they die before i can rupture my 2nd ennemy

[gloomy fern]

then ur playing a +2 or something

[prisma perch]

no 14

[uneven hamlet]

3 garotte> fok>ct>fok>rupt>fok>rupt

[prisma perch]

with boomie fmage

[strange python]

thanks for the input

[gloomy fern]

well why ask a question when u dont wanna listen

[prisma perch]

they are constantly on 10k dps

[gloomy fern]

short answer dont spam ct

they are def not

[prisma perch]

yep

chain pulling

[minor thicket]

what stats do we put on doomb blade?

[prisma perch]

then why does it more dmg on the meter

[gloomy fern]

obviously because u fuckign spam it

[bitter drift]

Crit haste

[storm forum]

without context that feels like a philosophical question

"why does it more dmg on the meter"

[prisma perch]

if they live long enough i can dot them

[bitter drift]

Shoulders if you don’t plan on MSLG, Gloves otherwise

[prisma perch]

but they die in like 6seconds

[alpine garden]

If they die that quick then sin probably isn't the spec

[gloomy fern]

yeah and u think ur gonna get otu like 10 cts in 6s or what

i mean ur questions is just stupid

and u keep saying but tehy die in 6s

[storm forum]

if theyres really dying that fast and its after your opener and you have like 4-6 bleeds up, you're probably better off just envenoming after the first CT

[prisma perch]

and when we chainpull ct is better for sure bcs u get to bleed more trash

[gloomy fern]

if shit dies in 6s u do 0 dmg as sin

play another spec

[bitter drift]

If that’s the case just FoK CT. You’re clearly only there for bosses so no worries

[stoic needle]

This just isn't true

[gloomy fern]

its like talking to a wall

[stoic needle]

You're probably doing 5cp ruptures instead of 2-3cp ones

[storm forum]

if youre chainpulling you still want to just CT once

[prisma perch]

i use 1 fok 1 ct after garroting 4

[gloomy fern]

yeah but thats moer than 6s

things is dead

why ct if the bleed wont do any dmg

[uneven hamlet]

Every time a tank chain pull a part of my soul dies

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor at what density does zdicks overtake dblade?

[storm forum]

and then putting rupts/gars up cause in the middle of the chain pull, the original mobs you pulled are going to die and you need the bleeds up

[stoic needle]

4+

[gloomy knoll]

ty

[stoic needle]

You're also energy starving yourself if you're spamming ct because it doesn't give you energy

[storm forum]

wait what does "density" mean in this context?

[stoic needle]

Just number of targets

[gloomy knoll]

at what density does zoldicks do more damage

[prisma perch]

i tried on dolls tbh and the spam did faster dmg than dotting and in m+ when its not fortified they die so fast bcs we are overgeared

[storm forum]

thx

[bitter drift]

Then why worry about asking?

[stoic needle]

It doesn't really matter what affix it is, spamming ct is less damage than spreading dots and maintaining ct

[prisma perch]

bcs i want to know if anyone has infos on cleave and not aoe

[stoic needle]

Doesnt matter what key level either

[prisma perch]

if they have to die fast like burst fast

[stoic needle]

Cleave and aoe rotation is the same. Maintain ct, spread Ruptures

Sin doesn't burst

[bitter drift]

^

[stoic needle]

Spamming ct doesn't make you burst

[bitter drift]

I hate agreeing with oshosi

[gloomy fern]

why would things have to die fast if shit dies in 6s ur argument just keeping owning urself

[stoic needle]

It just makes you do less damage over time

[gloomy fern]

just go full st for bosses

[stoic needle]

[prisma perch]

maintaining ct is the point they die for me before i can refresh

thats what i am telling u

[gloomy fern]

and u even say u keep chain pulling and u play a sub rogue with subterfuge

i eman

ur just useless at this point

[stoic needle]

If they die before the dot falls off then what is the problem

[bitter drift]

With Boomie Fire and you being Sin you shouldn’t even run CT if they’re clearing all trash before you can dot adds.

[gloomy fern]

and ur m+ mates do over 10k dps at all times

[prisma perch]

im not sub

[subtle tundra]

this is the stupidest shit i've seen today

[gloomy fern]

then u cant do triple garrote

are u drunk

[bitter drift]

He’s saying the mobs die before he can do anything

[stoic needle]

If they're chain pulling like that you might as well play outlaw

[bitter drift]

Might as well prio for bosses til higher keys

[prisma perch]

no not before i can do anything

before i dot every single mob or refresh ct

[gloomy fern]

gotta be trolling at this point, cant be this dense

[bitter drift]

6 seconds right?

[subtle tundra]

if mobs die in 6 seconds push that key to a level in which you matter as a dps

[uneven hamlet]

So? You aren't going to do 100% on every pull

[storm forum]

refresh CT is opener + ~12 seconds

[prisma perch]

in boss fights i always do the dps

[stoic needle]

You're playing the wrong spec if you're trying to compete with fire mages and boomkins with their CDs up on trash

[subtle tundra]

class

[storm forum]

if all the packs are really only living 15 seconds then just focus on boss damage

[stoic needle]

You should play monk or demon hunter

[bitter drift]

2nd stupidest thing I’ve heard today. He’s obviously not climbing keys and just wanting valor and the gear or he’d be doing higher without you suggesting.

[prisma perch]

i play sin for raid as my 2nd alt

[uneven hamlet]

I'd suggest sub in those cases for u

[prisma perch]

sub??

[uneven hamlet]

You have to use 4 keys to do the proper aoe rotation, I'd be easier

[prisma perch]

i picked sin for raid bcs its the best st spec :p

[harsh jasper]

how do you decide when to use zoldyk over master assassin legendary?

[fossil wasp]

quick question sorry, i am about to start a raid. can i use a sword/maze on the off hand?

[storm forum]

my answer is based on feel craft (all i do is feelcraft) but I like zoldyk when playing with burst classes (marks/fire) cause they get the mobs to execute and we mop up

[storm forum]

no

[fossil wasp]

thnks a lo!

alot*

[stoic needle]

It's really personal preference between the two, I prefer zoldyck because it has a unique damage profile

[storm forum]

when playing with less bursty classes (frost mage, second sin rogue) I haven't actually played with MA in higher keys but I felt like I would rather just play a different spec

[bitter drift]

Zoldyck is great if there’s cleave on a longer fight or just prog bosses/tyr bosses. MA is great if you need to burst, but in fortified weeks Zoldyck feels good and in Tyrannical weeks MA trash feels good but you miss Zoldyck on boss fights. Overall Zoldyck will get more use unless you’re just blowing up 10’s-14’s for Valor.

[stoic needle]

Yeah, I feel like zoldyck is just great regardless of affix

Wrecks bosses on tyrann, pumps trash on fortified

[bitter drift]

That’s 2x today. see you all tomorrow.

[stoic needle]

Later man

[balmy condor]

Aight now who ping?

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor

[gloomy knoll]

twas me

question was answered tho xd

[balmy condor]

I see

Oh the target count where doomblade loses to zold

What was the answer?

[stoic needle]

I said 4+ because that's when you'd stop mutilating

But I could be wrong and it could be less

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

What?

[balmy condor]

Zold is slightly behind on 2 and handily wins on 3

Multidot stronk

Also more targets you get means less envenoms

So it’s not just “oh we stop mutilating”

[stoic needle]

Okay

[loud niche]

i need to get 8 unbound reality fragments before i can even get lashing 226 FeelsBadMan

[balmy condor]

Just kill mythic sire

[stoic needle]

226 lashing is like a 10 dps upgrade

Almost not even worth the effort

[loud niche]

osh, i'm lookin for everything i can get here

and i can't kill sire if the guild can't even manage council

[stoic needle]

Do you have all of your gear socketed

That's a better use of stygia imo

[strange python]

i just did 6.2k dps on a +17 Sanguine. I am never again letting someone bullshit assa in any pve content.

[loud niche]

yes all pieces socketed

[stoic needle]

Then go off I guess lmao

[loud niche]

xD

i just finished sockets last week

[stoic needle]

I'm just coming around to the maw game

[loud niche]

i was grinding the maw pretty hard early on, then just stopped cuz previous guild fell to bits

[stoic needle]

I grinded to unlock the sockets and then got burned out

Didn't go back for a few weeks

I need a pair of bracers worth socketing and a 2nd ring worth socketing and 2 sockets for helm/belt

[loud niche]

there's still plenty i could min/max. 220 helm haste/mast, 220 neck vers/haste, 220 shoulders vers/haste, 226 back crit/mast, 226 legs mast/crit

[stoic needle]

Yeah I don't socket 220s

[loud niche]

but the BiS are all from weekly vault, and i do 10x a week +15's and still nothing

which is why i blew sockets on my 220's

[stoic needle]

I just don't want to socket a 220 and then get a 226 the next week in vault

Maybe I'd do it if it was a 220 of a bis peice

But meh

[loud niche]

i felt the same way, worked out since i didnt get it this week

lol

[gloomy knoll]

deeper sims higher on 2t cleave but i can't for the life of me get EP uptime at 100%

[agile ledge]

Speaking of mythics, I was doing a few with my guild last night trying Assassination for the first time there and I found that I was rarely using envenom. Is that normal or am I doing something wrong? I definitely felt like most of my attention was just keeping up my bleeds.

[gloomy knoll]

is also a pain to maintain bleeds when your energy isn't poppin

[stoic needle]

I don't think you get 100% deeper ep uptime even on st

[gloomy knoll]

que

[stoic needle]

Are you talking about for huntsman? I usually run vigor there

[agile ledge]

I did 5.1k dps on a 222 rogue and that felt pretty low. Im NF if that makes any difference

[gloomy knoll]

u mean ep?

yea for huntsman

[stoic needle]

Err yeah EP

[limber lion]

Pretty normal. You usually only use Envenoms on smaller packs, pride, bosses and prio targets.

Or when a pack is about to die.

[gloomy knoll]

i wonder if it's just valuing the finisher damage higher than the ep chains

[agile ledge]

Thanks Ceverion.

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

I wonder about the huntsman opener

Maybe with deeper it'd be better to start out with 2-3cp ruptures instead of 5

And just tab over to refresh even if you're in the middle of vendetta when it starts to pandemic

[loud niche]

just start off by killing the spoders in the room prepull

EZ

[stoic needle]

Truuu

[grizzled orbit]

Go kill the spiders in the corner before huntsman for s&d at the start.

lol yeah

[loud niche]

i start that fight with SnD active always

[gloomy knoll]

you don't get the 2nd rupture up right away

you do regular opener and garrote 2nd homie when it comes off cd

[stoic needle]

I don't see any reason to delay it

[limber lion]

You dot both with garrotes but only Huntsman with Rupture

[gloomy knoll]

cuz you're delaying your cd's

[stoic needle]

Open from stealth with 2 garottes

[limber lion]

After opener you apply rup to the dog as well

[gloomy knoll]

oh you're playing subt

then you'd garrote garrote and do regular opener

after vend get rupture on both

refresh garrotes with vanish during vend

[loud niche]

you don't maintain both on both targets full time?

[gloomy knoll]

you do after opener

[limber lion]

Not in the opener. You don't need the energy and the dog dies too quick

Once your opener is finished or when Barghast spawns you rup the doggie

[loud niche]

hmmm perhaps this has been my err in that parse

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

It's not that major tbh

It's very minmaxy

[loud niche]

cev...

i socketed 3 220 pieces

[stoic needle]

That's what we're here for lmao

[loud niche]

cmon bruh

[limber lion]

Oh boy

[loud niche]

you mistake me for a man who cares about having a life.

[limber lion]

Someone loves doing Torghast

I mean

Err

The maw

[loud niche]

torghast lol, i did that to get my mount too last week

so that i could finish farming out these sockets faster

[fallow solar]

How about in a trash pack of 5-6 in M+. Do you x3 Garrote or x4 in the opener? From there do you FoK for a low cp CT or spend two globals on FoK for a full combo point CT?

[limber lion]

4 gars into CT

Then you apply ruptures to everyone that lives the duration

[stoic needle]

I prefer 3 gar fok ct because it applies poisons

[loud niche]

i dont like how 4 gar feels so i do 3 and FoK into CT

AYE

[stoic needle]

And 4 garottes energy starves you

[limber lion]

Yeah that's tbh fine as well

[storm forum]

I only 4th gar if i got lucky on autos and have poisons applied already

[fallow solar]

I assume you get CT up before putting on ruptures

[limber lion]

4 garrotes means you start gaining evergy faster though

You starve yourself to get the 4th out but get more energy after that

For the 3 gcd's before the next rup

Garrotes usually also apply poisons but not necessarily

[stoic needle]

You have to get lucky with poisons

[limber lion]

Need to really track that.

[storm forum]

if you have SnD up before the pull sometimes you just randomly have poisons up on all the mobs you garotted so the 4th feels good

[stoic needle]

I don't think garotte itself applies poisons but the autos you do when tab targeting do

[limber lion]

Ye exactly

Tbh

[storm forum]

see I get off to seeing tons of debuffs up on my enemy frames so I track every debuff i can legally apply

[limber lion]

I wouldn't recommend one opener and rotation for every situation

It changes quite a bit

Sometimes you do 4, sometimes 3

Sometimes you rup before you ct

Sometimes you ct before rup

It's a slow spec that's filled with macro gameplay where you have to make decisions in the fly and think 10s ahead.

It's not a hard spec to play and do well with, but it's a hard spec to get every single ounce of your damage out.

But now I'm off to bed

Gn

[stoic needle]

Night!

[fallow solar]

Yeah im doing well with it but feel like i still could be doing it all wrong

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

Yeah I mean like I got Ksm doing full ,4-5cp ruptures

Not a single 2-3 in sight

Always stuff to learn

[storm forum]

mm, i only use short rups when things are in execute/arent going to live a full 4/5 cp rup and my bleeds are falling, it that how others are doing it?

[stoic needle]

Unless it's a boss I always start with 2-3 cp ones to get the energy regen rolling faster and then refresh them in pandemic

If I get lucky and get 5cp from a fok then I'll drop a big one on the toughest enemy but I don't go out of my way for them

Idk at the key level I do things almost never live the duration of a full Rupture

[storm forum]

lol fair

[harsh jasper]

which slot did you put zoldyck's on

[bitter drift]

Legs

[stoic needle]

Pantaloons

[upbeat tinsel]

Anyone know if you can transfer anima from one covenant to another via selling back vendor items that cost anima (still)?

[brave vector]

is there a bit of custom text i can add to raidbots to sim all stone and oil combinations for me?

[spice spire]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[pale fossil]

When does Sin want to pool energy?

Thoughts would be just before Vendetta or just before Vanish > Envenom > Mutiliate x2 > Envenom combo, but wasn't sure if those were worth pooling energy and if there are other situations.

[stoic needle]

Don't envenom until 70%+ energy and that covers all situations in which you would want to pool

[barren moth]

How much haste should you be aiming for before you look to crit?

[soft shale]

pool to pandemic envenom like he said

[stoic needle]

There is no such thing

Just sim

[soft shale]

around 40% you will se heavy dr and other stats are better but that is not reacheable right now

[barren moth]

Im just trying to workout what to socket . right now it says my top gear has no socket -.-

[soft shale]

you can socket crit and be fine for the other specs too

[stoic needle]

There is an option to add sockets in raidbots

At the top

[barren moth]

Currently 534 Haste & 78 crit

1140 versa

[stoic needle]

Only 78 crit?

Jesus man

Get some crit

[pale fossil]

So I'm hitting a dummy and waiting to Envenom until 70% energy, and I'm realizing that means that I'm doing a bit of waiting after GCDs and getting crits with full CPs.

[barren moth]

Yeah im mainly pvp geared so majority is versa then secondary haste

[pale fossil]

Should I be avoiding critting and wasting CPs? Or does that sound right?

[stoic needle]

There's nothing wrong with that

[pale fossil]

Gotcha. I'm coming from Outlaw so I'm used to mad button pushing, I suppose.

[stoic needle]

Only mutilate and fok give extra cp on crits. Your dots and autos don't

You shouldn't mutilate or fok with full cp obviously

[pale fossil]

Oh, didn't realize. Mixed up spec and class passives I think.

But yeah I'm not casting builders with full CP or overcapping.

[stoic needle]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with holding onto full cp for a little while. Your rupture might need to be refreshed before you go for another envenom or something

[pale fossil]

Last thing - The guide I read talked up the value of Vanish > Envenom > Mutilate x2 > Envenom, but the sims I've run just show Vanish used on CD without much regard to context.

So I'm guessing that "combo" was just overplayed by the guide?

[stoic needle]

Yeah, it's not a huge deal what you do within the vanish MA window, as long as you don't do some weird shit like cast garotte or rupture

Vanish envenom mut envenom is fine, vanish mut envenom mut is also fine

[pale fossil]

If I'm pooling energy before using Envenom, and I'm capped on CP, and Shiv comes off CD, do I Shiv before or after the full CP Envenom?

[stoic needle]

Before

Just pretend shiv doesn't give cp

[pale fossil]

Cool

I appreciate the help.

[kindred scarab]

Do we never care about Shiv's cp generation?

Like if shiv comes up and I have 5 cp and can envenom, i just shiv?

[west swallow]

are non daggers acceptable for offhand? im thinking of trying assassination again but ill be switching from outlaw, i just got a 223 dagger from my vault. so i have a 207 axe and a 200 dagger as potential offhands so not sure which i should use

[kindred scarab]

Doesnt Mut require 2 daggers or am I trolling?

[sleek umbra]

yeah sin needs 2 daggers equipped

[west swallow]

okay cool, i wasnt too sure on that

[stoic needle]

Yes you shiv and then envenom. The cp only matters if you are at 4/5 and can use that cp to get to 5/6

[cerulean nest]

which rings are best to get from M+? Arachnid and Stitchflesh's?

[brave vector]

im assuming with NS/MFD in m+ our boss opener is just MFD > Rup?

then proceed with normal prio

[stoic needle]

Those are good, the top ring is good too

[stoic needle]

Yep

[exotic pulsar]

So I'm guessing shadowgrasp totem also got buffed. I just got a 226 out of vault because it simmed higher than my 226 memory and 226 skulkers. I was skeptical but it does indeed pump.

[supple pagoda]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[west swallow]

whats the verdict on legendaries? which should i craft first?

[slow marsh]

Zold cuz it's better for m+ and isn't that far behind doomblade. More of a catch all

You'll want zold doomblade eventually

[burnt star]

omg finaly done with the damn venthyr anima/graceful offering farming

for mog!

[pale fossil]

What's the plan for Sire P2? Do you just try to get Garrote/Rupture on Cabalists, Remoria, and Denath before starting to Envenom?

[storm forum]

does anyone know how doomblade DoT is affected by haste? It just says "additional 25% bleed damage over 8 seconds" and with mutilate damage not being affected by haste (i think), would haste increase that 45%?

[balmy condor]

Yep, rupture garrote everything that lives long enough

[pulsar sluice]

is there a site i can use to sort through all the high haste gear

tired of having low hate

haste

[balmy condor]

Just use droptimizer

[balmy condor]

I’m actually not sure

Maybe @fleet anchor would know

[pulsar sluice]

crap

says i need raidbots premium lol

[fleet anchor]

I think it's one of those things where technically the haste affects the tick rate but doesn't actually impact the damage at all because it's an ignite

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking

[fleet anchor]

I'd need to check if the rate is actually hasted or not, but either way I don't think it matters

[pulsar sluice]

if i sim a dungeon at a time will the sim save the previous

[balmy condor]

It will save whatever your input is

So if you just copy paste your simc every time

It’ll be your character

You would have to go in and change the gear for it to actually change the default

[slow marsh]

With doomblade I've found crit is valued slightly higher than haste for that reason

[balmy condor]

Yeh that’s normal

[slow marsh]

Not enough to actually matter because you want both anyways but

Enough to where I have 33% crit and only 18% haste

[pulsar sluice]

whats the different between heirloom and epic

for raidbots

[slow marsh]

Amount of things you can sim

[pulsar sluice]

ah

[slow marsh]

Just depends on how much you're simming at a time

Personally I find the middle tier option to be most value because I regularly reach the limit for 5 mil combos or whatever it is but not enough for me to pay for the upper tier. All up to how you use it

[tawdry falcon]

are the sims around IQD trustworthy? My 210 IQD constantly sims higher than my 213 Skulkers or the 220 Dreadfire thats in my vault

i feel like fight length and its effect being random would kinda kill it

[pulsar sluice]

How does one read this

priority 1 means, the first thing in the list I should get?

for that dungeon

[loud light]

priority is a sort of balancing of how much dps you get from the items vs how big the loot table is and how likely you are to get something

it was more a tool for deciding when to bonus roll