if dk has army in execute its very good
#assassination
strange python
i don't think you open with Garrote if u dont use Subterfuge. you prolly open with Fan with the MA window yeah, but dont catch my word for it, as I don't use MA
dense hamlet
we are talking abt Pi targets not overall who has better execute
thin inlet
yes
I was under the assumption
that they were still better execute target
without army
thin inlet
but could be wrong
dense hamlet
soul reaper dosent get affected by pi asmuch as u do
thin inlet
ok bro
dense hamlet
well u can convince me if im wrong
thin inlet
I won’t
I just went based of what DKs told me
I’m not nearly familiar enough
to argue
thin inlet
yes
I try ever raid
never gotten one
cause we have mages and dks
and locks
who perma cry for it
dense hamlet
happens
subtle tundra
dogshit players
thin inlet
I mean it’s fine I still top dps without it :)
thin inlet
sure
dense hamlet
but if they cry for it
thin inlet
no one needs it
dense hamlet
thats yikes
dense hamlet
its just bad for the game that these stuff even exist like priests nf or pi
thin inlet
ye I don’t like PI
At all
sad to look at logs and all Assas get pi
in the top
was nice when I played outlaw
to not need to worry about it
fervent beacon
I just tell our priest to PI me or I don't carry them for KSM
icy haven
man, i got pi on our farm thursday and pulled a 99% ilvl log out of my ass 😄
feelsgoodman
dense hamlet
and mostly reclear for logs
pliant dust
Hey folks! Doomblade or Zoldyck for CN? Icy-veins suggests Zoldyck.
limber lion
Hey folks! Doomblade or Zoldyck for CN? Icy-veins suggests Zoldyck.
Doomblade.
Icyveins is a bit outdated. Actually reading through IV you can see that the guide recommends Doomblade as the best ST legendary and Zoldyck for overall.
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
pliant dust
Cheers
undone verge
Hey folks! Doomblade or Zoldyck for CN? Icy-veins suggests Zoldyck.
Mmmm... what I’ve heard here is zold for progression, otherwise doom
subtle tundra
zold for sire mythic progression, not overall progression
limber lion
How do u guys dps sire p1
Just focus Sire, use FoK as a generator when 3 or more adds are alive
edgy prairie
Hey all, Im posting this in all of the Rogue Specs channels to make sure I cover all my bases. Sorry for the months of radio silence on WoWAnalyzer. I've had a lot of personal things come up that took my focus away from the project plus I started a new job around the new year.
I have been hard at work in my free time at lunch and at the end of sprints when I have free dev time. I'm struggling with getting the combo point waste calculations to match up with WarcraftLogs. It is much more complicated than I had anticipated. Please know that I am diligently trying to figure it out. Once this ComboPoint issue is solved the others I have should fall rather quickly.
slender urchin
How many targets before you just spam CT over Envenom
limber lion
Hey all, Im posting this in all of the Rogue Specs channels to make sure I cover...
Nice, sounds great! WoWAnalyzer is a toughie for Rogue, glad to see it's being worked on.
final star
You don't @slender urchin
slender urchin
Roger
limber lion
How many targets before you just spam CT over Envenom
You never do.
slender urchin
Just maintain for the 12s
ancient cosmos
Whats CT ? sorry not yet assasin
limber lion
Crimson Tempest
final star
Refresh at 2-4s remaining
slender urchin
About to try my first key as sin
final star
Unless NS boosted
limber lion
About to try my first key as sin
Good luck!
ancient cosmos
At what point do u take CT over bomb ? i didnt know that was even viable
icy haven
@limber lion what was the NS build you and whispyr were talking about the other day?
icy haven
run that with MA?
slender urchin
Not subter?
final star
Mfd+CT > Fok > Rupture > Fok > Rupture > garrote
icy haven
ooh that could be pretty fun actually, but whats the opener on boss then?
final star
MfD + Rupture
Garrote
Mut
Then envenom cos you still have crit
Then mut to 4-5
Flagellation
Regular opener from there
ancient cosmos
thats for st ?
final star
Yes for bosses
slender urchin
You CT on ST too?
final star
Yeah
ancient cosmos
whats ep and es btw
final star
Elaborate planning talent
NS is Nightstalker
It's even better to end pride before boss on capped cp if you can
ancient cosmos
I see so no subter ?
final star
So you can mfd in opener
I prefer NS with master Assassin legendary
Subterfuge way better with zoldycks
limber lion
I see so no subter ?
Yes, you run Subterfuge with Zoldyck. But for this build you run with Nightstalker and MA
ancient cosmos
Isnt it easier to just swap outlaw for m+ tho
final star
Yes
ancient cosmos
Even if venthyr spell isnt as good on it
final star
But some people don't like that
I prefer assassination for tyrannical now
Outlaw plays better for fortified for myself
Less time on packs on tyrannical makes assassination bearable with MA/NS
subtle kiln
assa feels so much better on tyrannical
ancient cosmos
Yeah i see but then again depends on the pulls u do i guess
ancient cosmos
What key is this
final star
15 mists with pepega plays
subtle kiln
you lose an extra cc vs outlaw, but if you listen to greens in that channel gouge ain’t gonna change the world
and hi kieron 
final star
Henlo scath
the hunter deciding to spirits pride
Instead of the double pull right after it
subtle kiln
tell them to try BM 
limber lion
Just play whatever the spec you want however you want
It doesn't matter
It's a video game
Have fun
limber lion
Legit nothing matters
final star
The sky is the limit 
limber lion
If you have fun playing a different spec, play that spec.
subtle kiln
unless you go outlaw. deathly shadows or gtfo
limber lion
If you have fun playing a different build, play that build
If you hate playing Outlaw, don't play that shit
WoW is a game
Not a job
final star
KS is fun tbh
Blade rush not so much
But outlaw less talent reliant on restealths
So I play it when I know I won't be getting them
subtle kiln
KS is outlaws only saving grace for fun right now.
pliant dust
Are you trying to say that pressing BF and going on with your 3 button rota isn't fun???
vocal stone
tldr: stack haste?
balmy condor
tldr: sim yourself
fleet whale
whatever pieces of gear let you do the most damage
are the pieces of gear you should use
strange python
is there a point where i dont want any more haste
dense walrus
just based on what the answer is regarding anything stat related
when the sims tell you
limber lion
is there a point where i dont want any more haste
Ye, you literally have to sim yourself. There isn't any breakpoints or anything of the sort.
strange python
cool man cheers
dense walrus
is Potion of Deathly Fixation + shadowcore/sharpening better or Spectral Agility + double sharpening?
vernal mauve
We want doom blade as hands right?
oblique flare
yes
limber lion
is Potion of Deathly Fixation + shadowcore/sharpening better or Spectral Agility...
Usually Sharpening Stones + Spectral agi, but you can use this:
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
limber lion
We want doom blade as hands right?
Yes
dense walrus
Thanks Ceverion
vernal mauve
Thank you
limber lion
torn atlas
For the guys running 13-15 keys, what sort of numbers are you pulling over all? I'm simming ~6.8k dslice but generally sit about ~4k overall for the key. Is this normal (due to time between pulls, deaths etc), or should I be closer to that mark in general?
limber lion
For the guys running 13-15 keys, what sort of numbers are you pulling over all? ...
Depends on the key, closer to 6.5-7k myself.
limber lion
i should probs tunnel the dog eh
No, you put both bleeds up on both targets and then funnel Huntsman.
If the dog survives 30s it might be worth focusing that instead
torn atlas
Ahhh so I'm likely dropping my rotation hard then haha.
limber lion
But it's a bit risky.
torn atlas
Yeah, I know there's some holes there to fix so guess I'll just keep practising til it's natural.
Efficient Mfd usage probably being the biggest hurdle.
final star
For the guys running 13-15 keys, what sort of numbers are you pulling over all? ...
I'm doing 6-6.5k at 221
woven hound
any recommendations on trinkets that drop from dungeons that are best for mythic+/aoe?
final star
Phial
limber lion
any recommendations on trinkets that drop from dungeons that are best for mythic...
Phial of Putrefaction and IQD
torn atlas
I'm doing 6-6.5k at 221
Yeah im 218, so guess not that far behind in items but decent gap I output. Gives me something to aim for at least.
woven hound
thanks gang! much appreciated
undone eagle
is it good to go ST talents for this m+ week?
stable arch
final star
@undone eagle poison bomb is just such a bad talent that CT is too good to not go in m+
limber lion
is it good to go ST talents for this m+ week?
Always CT regardless of week. Poison Bomb can be played with the Dashing Scoundrel legendary
outer cairn
I always run the AoE talents and CT, even if it is tyrannical. Typically even though I'm not getting MA, DS, and Poison bomb, Vendetta and Flag always seem to make up for it and usually I'm still sitting at the top or second in DPS for bosses
Best part of Zoldyck is that your bleeds and poisons still gonna execute adds and bosses
stoic needle
No, you can farm 220 shoulders
limber lion
Doesn't really matter.
stoic needle
Oh you already have 220 shoulders
limber lion
If you're not killing Mythic SLG, literally does not matter.
stoic needle
Just craft on gloves
limber lion
Mythic Stone legion?
Ah alright, then you craft hands.
Interesting seeing someone kill M SLG with multiple 220 gear pieces.
Yeah but stats don't really matter as much as you'd think
outer cairn
I won't be killing Mythic SLG and I have 226 gloves so I was going to craft on Shoulders
stoic needle
That doesn't really make sense. The secondary stats aren't enough to make a noticeable difference but 220 to 233 ilvl absolutely is
You'd run the shoulders for both sin and law
You aren't going to do more damage with the gloves vs the shoulders
You could also get them the next kill or next week
You're just sitting yourself up to do less dps for no real reason
undone eagle
Always CT regardless of week. Poison Bomb can be played with the Dashing Scoundr...
but should i bind blindside + master assaisin talent together with CT?
limber lion
but should i bind blindside + master assaisin talent together with CT?
Not sure what you mean. Master Assassin is not a button that you press.
But no you should not bind them together
undone eagle
bind as in
limber lion
Or even use them together
undone eagle
choosing the talent
limber lion
No
undone eagle
so EP + Subter
undone eagle
ty.
yet in the end of dungeon is end up around 6k dps
overall
with the ST talent xD
but i guess i can reach higher now with ct and ep sub
limber lion
Yeh probably
dense bramble
for heroic SLG, still run doomblade? and still PB or switch to CT?
ruby birch
for heroic SLG, still run doomblade? and still PB or switch to CT?
zoldyck or doomblade, zoldyck is better prog. you still run pb, CT is not worth on that fight
prisma perch
I heard deathly shadows is good in m+
ruby birch
fuckikng
brain literally went oom
zoldyck is better for the last phase if you're progressing, but honestly i think doomblade works just as fine
and for heroic, im p sure pb is better than CT
limber lion
for heroic SLG, still run doomblade? and still PB or switch to CT?
Yes, Doomblade. I would use CT on SLG.
ruby birch
its heroic SLG though
limber lion
It is
ruby birch
why CT?
limber lion
But CT sims better in 2t
dense bramble
Yes, Doomblade. I would use CT on SLG.
i'm gonna CT, ty
mint brook
i'm gonna CT, ty
With PB you just go into 5 CP - boss hits pillar - shiv into pumping envenoms
CT makes you waste your CP's there
dawn ivy
SLG=/=sludge???
hollow forge
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
kindred scarab
Is Nadjia still better for M+, or would Theotar be better for the aoe mastery buff?
I feel like the mastery would be better than haste because ideally I'll have bleeds/poisons on everyone in a trash pack, but i wanna make sure
kindred scarab
Theotar gives a mastery buff in the shroud thing
limber lion
Oh right the umbrella
kindred scarab
yeah, that. Sorry haha
limber lion
It's just really random and can proc at really awkward times
kindred scarab
I know stats generally go crit > haste > mastery > vers for M+, but I feel like the mastery umbrella buff is better than the haste for M+? or could be wrong i guess
limber lion
If it was more consistent, then sure
tender folio
Im using Nadja for myth+
kindred scarab
Do you just swap the last tier between M+ and raid?
limber lion
It doesn't really matter
The difference is so small
It's more of a preference thing.
kindred scarab
Between double potency and the 3% dmg? gotcha sweet
limber lion
Yeah and the difference between Theotar and Nadja
They do different things
At similar levels.
kindred scarab
Fair enough, I appreciate it!
tranquil dove
im just starting rogue, last played in legion and assa, planningto play assa too. i quite like how necrolord ability feels .how much would i be missing out from venthyr actually? i read it's better
neat jacinth
So mastery is not a bad stat for m+, but versa is?!
limber lion
So mastery is not a bad stat for m+, but versa is?!
Neither of them are bad.
neat jacinth
Allright, so no stat is really bad for assa m+ then?
limber lion
Allright, so no stat is really bad for assa m+ then?
No
neat jacinth
Ty 🙂
limber lion
im just starting rogue, last played in legion and assa, planningto play assa too...
It's not much. Necrolord is better for AoE and Venthyr better for ST.
tranquil dove
seems to me like a poison that never runs out
sounds pretty good but that just might be me, venthyrfeels so clunky to use
clever vapor
Is it normal for 207 phial to sim lower than 213 hateful chain and skulker's wing?
limber lion
Is it normal for 207 phial to sim lower than 213 hateful chain and skulker's win...
Yes.
Chain and Wing are both still really good trinkets.
clever vapor
I just wonder if it's worth using valor to get it to 220
I was hoping for some big dps gainz
turbid geyser
as assasination, do i use weapon oils or sharpening stones?
kindred scarab
as assasination, do i use weapon oils or sharpening stones?
I read that oils are in raid/st and stones are M+ aoe
arctic cloud
I read that oils are in raid/st and stones are M+ aoe
Oh I use oils for everything?
remote river
Does recuperator work when slice and dice is active because of cut to the chase?
regal cape
Yee
stoic needle
Is Nadjia still better for M+, or would Theotar be better for the aoe mastery bu...
Generally stacking mastery gives more damage than stacking haste in aoe. Also not even to mention that it procs about 2x as much as thrill seeker. I've been using theotar in keys since 9.0.5 and I have little trouble getting benefit from the shade, I'd say it whiffs just as often as thrill seeker does from nadjia
remote river
Great thanks
stoic needle
One thing is that the shade can proc from pressing SND so if you are refreshing it between packs try to press SND right before you reopen 
stoic needle
I heard deathly shadows is good in m+
It's trash for sin
limber lion
as assasination, do i use weapon oils or sharpening stones?
Generally stones for everything.
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
limber lion
Does recuperator work when slice and dice is active because of cut to the chase?
Yes, if you have 100% uptime on SnD, you have 100% uptime on Recuperator
remote river
Great, thank you
fading wigeon
I just wonder if it's worth using valor to get it to 220
Use gear compare to see if it's worth upgrading over your chains
limber lion
Use gear compare to see if it's worth upgrading over your chains
Or even better, use Droptimizer and sim all dungeon trinkets at 220 at the same time.
compact pumice
Would you say MA or Doomblade for M+ this week?
I've been running MA but Doomblade would be useful on bosses since it's tyrannical
limber lion
I'm not a big fan of Doomblade in m+. I would run Zoldyck or MA in every dungeon.
stoic needle
Only for theater, plaguefall or SD
mortal tartan
oh so 0 is anything okay ty
plain thistle
yup, 0 means it doesn't actually give you dps
sour wraith
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
limber lion
@tawdry falcon The !bis command was removed because people used it as the bible to base off their gear choices and upgrades. You can use Droptimizer, Top Gear and Gear Compare in Raidbots.com to find the best upgrades for you.
cursive barn
anyone know how a sin rogue is able to use the outlaw artifact apperance tmog?
light plume
daggers cant be tmog'd to swords
balmy condor
You can
cursive barn
it was in an arena - im pretty sure he had daggers equipped
balmy condor
There’s a hacky work around
For dagger to sword
But it only works on artifacts i think
But again
cursive barn
word
sinful island
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rapid tree
How is Hateful Chain for us?
limber lion
It's pretty great
rapid tree
Over skulkers?
junior token
is it worth to use crimson tempest on cooldown on a singeltarget boss figth or is it like wasted combopoints that we could use for envenoms ?
limber lion
Sim it.
rapid tree
roger
limber lion
is it worth to use crimson tempest on cooldown on a singeltarget boss figth or i...
If you're talented into it, then you use it outside of Shiv windows. But you don't talent to it for ST.
junior token
i mean for m+
limber lion
Yes.
junior token
ok ty 🙂
light plume
maybe noob assa question, but why is ambush not used from stealth?
balmy condor
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
light plume
gotcha thanks
balmy condor
Pleasure
strange python
Not to not trust them
But rn when I run all the gems and enchants on rings I get a different combination each time
So I’m just sticking to haste
balmy condor
Well the thing with gems/enchants
Is that the difference between multiple combinations is VERY VERY small
So you’re within margin of error for most of those
Which means if you rerun it, there’s a pretty good chance that a different combination will sim that 0.001% dps more this time
shy dust
How much of a pinch of salt do we take with the sims
Depends
You gotta know what you’re simming
You’re not just gonna take a sim for what’s best for ST and instantly apply it for example Nzoth last tier
limber lion
Fuck that fight btw.
round harbor
That was a good fight
strange python
Ty boiz
limber lion
It was a fun fight for sure, but my guild always had people dying to beams or anguish, which in turn killed the enjoyment in the fight for me.
Way better than G'huun, that's for damn sure.
limber lion
I’ve yet to see a compelling argument to not trust sims tbh
Yeh me neither, but there are a lot of non-believers that don't trust sims because "they are simulations and not real situations that happen in the game".
But I doubt those people even know what the point of a sim is tbh.
shy dust
I mean for example
compact pumice
I think some people just don't understand what a sim is and therefor have no idea how to use the information, and they think "it's wrong" because when they do DPS they don't get those numbers on the boss and even "the best player they know" doesn't even come close then they think it's wrong.
shy dust
stacking NP
for nzoth
was pretty good
despite being a loss in comparison to other traits
limber lion
Yep
shy dust
Given as assassination your goal was to do boss damage
tribal steppe
hey is there really that much different in ST between fae and venthyr ?
I am Fae and like the movement etc..is it really worth changing to venthyr
bright moth
200dps
burnt latch
compact pumice
I was Fae, didn't want to change, changed because it was a big difference, then never looked back and loving it.
Pressing Flagellation feels like an actual cooldown. Sepsis was kinda use it and forget it.
tribal steppe
ya just checked pins.. are those current?
if so, I'll stay Fae if there is that little diff
odd flax
do we envenon at 4 CP with DS?
compact pumice
No at 5-6 with DS
balmy condor
ya just checked pins.. are those current?
As current as current can be
tribal steppe
thanks
odd flax
k ty
glacial shuttle
Can sin use fist weapons without penalty?
balmy condor
Can sin use fist weapons without penalty?
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
glacial shuttle
Damnit. Okay thanks lol.
tribal steppe
looking at the pins - is it right for Niya to choose burrs over poisons and go with 2 endurance instead of 2 potency?
balmy condor
Yes
tribal steppe
wow...ok
tribal steppe
ok thanks!
compact pumice
Burrs is just too good, only some classes with actually good conduits take 2 potency
Like Fire Mages I guess
balmy condor
So they take burrs too I’m pretty sure
Or herbs?
Idk
Most specs either have 1 good conduit or no good conduits
Kind of weird design but it’s blizz balancing
compact pumice
Tried to think of one with 2 good conduits but can't
Well, Outlaw I guess
with venthyr
But not for Fae
rustic whale
Pressing Flagellation feels like an actual cooldown. Sepsis was kinda use it and...
if you time last 3 seconds combined with MA ( talent ) via Vanish assuming time also Shiv, Sepsis can deal like 16 to 18k dmg total. Final tick deals good dmg. But yes Flagg feels better as cooldown ofc.
low girder
So they take burrs too I’m pretty sure
they run double potency for the NF conduit
compact pumice
Just a button you press every 1.5min
low girder
double effect of cd reduction during shifting power that way
rustic whale
actually sepsis gives mastery and good amount of health via Niya that is the purpose of use 😄
balmy condor
they run double potency for the NF conduit
Oh true, forgot about cov conduit
tribal steppe
so is well-placed steel the overall best potency?
balmy condor
Kinda
rustic whale
i would say requires sim/play to see it
tribal steppe
Im fae
balmy condor
LP is comparable
And adds some aoe
But WPS is good overall
Definitely not a mistake
compact pumice
They are all pretty close. I would sim em and choose depending on the content
balmy condor
Fuck maim mangle
tribal steppe
thanks guys
rustic whale
Fuck maim mangle
actually it gives %0.7 more dmg for me on single target than both well placed and lethal p
compact pumice
Like if you can sim Korayn close to or better than Niya for dungeon slice then that would be real nice to do have it kitted out for m+ and then maybe have Niya for raids, maybe have some alternate paths for pvp etc.
balmy condor
actually it gives %0.7 more dmg for me on single target than both well placed an...
That seems crazy high
stoic needle
maim mangle is litty
weak horizon
in my opener, before vanishing, do i want to get to 5/6 cp before vanishing?
shy dust
The profile sims for like 7.3k
Generally with good gear above 7k
Im currently at 7.2k
balmy condor
in my opener, before vanishing, do i want to get to 5/6 cp before vanishing?
No
But if you do, it’s whatever
With deeper you have to mut twice in the ma window regardless of how you spin it
tropic echo
how practical is macabre?
round harbor
need alot of optimization i guess
vital haven
with doomblade and venthyr etc?
vital haven
the trinket @tropic echo ?
the clones appear around you honestly ive found it annoying so i stopped using it pretty quicky
tropic echo
yeah
tropic echo
wondering if i should bother swapping to rogue for council
guess not lol
council farm*
reef axle
We not great on council, single target is ok to a point but switching to adds is like ugh
balmy condor
Not with ds
weak horizon
ahhh, fuck so i've been doing that wrong
weak horizon
yeah
balmy condor
So you’re either stuck going vanish env mut mut, or vanish mut env mut or vanish mut mut env
Which is all the same
weak horizon
yeahhh
i had heard to do envenom, mut, envenom no matter what
from a certain rogue who must not be named
hollow escarp
weak horizon
actually, on icyveins it says to do a envenom, mut, envenom
balmy condor
actually, on icyveins it says to do a envenom, mut, envenom
Yeah still based on vigor most likely
spice spire
Listening to chat 
thorny pond
Press buttons faster!
weak horizon
thx
balmy condor
thx
Last little caveat though is that even with vigor mut env mut and env mut env end up being basically the same thing
So really just hit vanish during vendetta, if you’re fae, towards the end of sepsis, and do your rotation like normal
sour wraith
So you’re either stuck going vanish env mut mut, or vanish mut env mut or vanish...
do you mut a second time even if you have 4 cp in MA window?
i've just been sbs'ing
round harbor
with doomblade and venthyr etc?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9GxoacbtKxTBr2MtUAQksQ still seems low
think i need alot more haste
sour wraith
4 min versus 5 min sim
balmy condor
do you mut a second time even if you have 4 cp in MA window?
If it’s the last gcd of the ma window an sbs is okay, but generally you don’t want to sbs in ma
balmy condor
Yeah koji’s thing specifies the last 0.8 seconds of an ma window
balmy condor
Let me double check that for you
# Apply SBS to all targets without a debuff as priority, preferring targets dying sooner after the primary target
actions.direct+=/serrated_bone_spike,if=variable.use_filler&!dot.serrated_bone_spike_dot.ticking
actions.direct+=/serrated_bone_spike,target_if=min:target.time_to_die+(dot.serrated_bone_spike_dot.ticking*600),if=variable.use_filler&!dot.serrated_bone_spike_dot.ticking
# When MA is not at high duration, use SBS to apply Lead by Example during Vendetta, otherwise keep from capping charges
actions.direct+=/serrated_bone_spike,if=variable.use_filler&master_assassin_remains<0.8&(fight_remains<=5|cooldown.serrated_bone_spike.charges_fractional>=2.75|soulbind.lead_by_example.enabled&!buff.lead_by_example.up&debuff.vendetta.up)
So this is the line in question
For anyone lurking
So that second line specifies to cast sbs if you should generate and ma has <0.8 seconds left on it, and either of the following is true:
- The fight is going to end within 5 seconds (mostly dungeonslice)
- You’re about to cap charges
- You’re taking emeni, and thus lbe, and you don’t have lbe currently, and you have vendetta up
sour wraith
yea
balmy condor
So regardless, you would still want to try and avoid sbs in ma, except for the last second
In which it would be okay
sour wraith
yea, i've been hitting vend+shiv (1-2 cp) -> vanish -> mut -> envenom 5/6 -> mut, or vanish mut (4 cp) -> sbs -> env, but i guess mut is better?
doesn't make sense since you risk overcapping more cp there though
sour wraith
that's fair
velvet nacelle
man sun king prog suuucks
one of our priests is out today so we only have one GS
we're barely missing timings without him
but we're missing them
placid dawn
What should i run on SLG? zoldyck or doomblade?
balmy condor
If you’re playing sin on slg, you’re probably there for the boss damage
So I would say doom
But zold is fine for add damage
placid dawn
alright, thanks
i am just seeing some logs and they cast fok quite a lot
even with doomblade
real kettle
habit
balmy condor
A lot of people still cast on 3
Or if they’re filthy sub rerollers and fok on 2
Which should be a reportable offense tbh
dense bramble
should i valor upgrade phial or offhand first?
balmy condor
Phial probably
lofty yarrow
A lot of people still cast on 3
Then i should not cast FOK on 3 targets ?
balmy condor
No
lofty yarrow
4 then ? 😂
balmy condor
Yes
lofty yarrow
Thanks
nocturne hawk
fok... where's our echoing blades at 
dense bramble
Phial probably
and what about offhand vs PF ring? hahaha
lofty yarrow
and what about offhand vs PF ring? hahaha
Sim it better
dense bramble
is it possible to sim valor upgrades? how?
fervent beacon
Use sim gear compare and you can set the ilvl on loots
lofty yarrow
Yup , go to raidbots —>droptomizer—> click weekly vault rewards 220 ilvl —> choose your dungeon and search
balmy condor
Droptimizer 220 is the play
lofty yarrow
Any of our big guys pushing 22 keys tried assa compared to outlaw , I’m really in a critical situation where i can’t risk even once going assa in those keys xD
balmy condor
Gear compare is kinda useless tbh
drifting cloud
22 is probably too high for assa
atleast in a sense where youre making your group slightly worse
lofty yarrow
Hmmm kinda true but i feel like multi dotting on 3 targets will make it up + boss penetration
Just wondering don’t know 🙂
drifting cloud
does assa even out dps otl on st if we dont get 2nd vendetta on boss?
tawdry falcon
!statweights
drifting cloud
or well guess I dont really know from heart how long a 20~ fort boss lives
shell ivy
I got myself into a weird spot on a sludgefist HC run where I had so many blindside procs
I didn’t check the numbers, does ambush do more damage than mutilate
Or should I skip them and mutilate instead of consuming procs on crash time
Was it like
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
shell ivy
I would understand for the cp logic
But not sure which one to prioritize on fight like sludgefist
Got rank 45 if I asked that earlier maybe coulda gotten even better 😤
shell ivy
ok great to know
thanks
Never procced so much while sludge crashed
Sin feels so good on sludge man esp when u played so much this fight as outlaw 😍
shell ivy
Defo
lofty yarrow
or well guess I dont really know from heart how long a 20~ fort boss lives
Well yea assa is better in ST, but the point is i can’t play 2 specs due to many reasons, well i can play but won’t perform the way i should be , really wanna try assassination in 22s just wanna know more from people who played outlaw in high keys and tried assa
Specially that i’m necro aswell so should be really good for assa in mythic+ due to having another low energy CP generator so it looks promising 🤷🏻♂️
shell ivy
I could probably give u my opinion on that as I’ve been doing some sin keys to farm gear, range of 14-17 but I can tell you outlaw is defo the best the higher key u go
Even on Tyra
neat cairn
Sucks that Sin is the only rogue that's technically versatile with all their covs while Sub and Outlaw prefer Night Fae (last I checked).
So if you play more than Sin, being anything besides night fae just hits different
lofty yarrow
I could probably give u my opinion on that as I’ve been doing some sin keys to f...
Thank you 🙂
neat cairn
But I'm a hater of the other two specs so I'm gonna' pick my Venthyr and enjoy my penance
lofty yarrow
Sucks that Sin is the only rogue that's technically versatile with all their cov...
That’s generally good
shell ivy
So far I could also tell u my mindset as to whether I should run sin on not, logically you shouldn’t run outlaw if you have only aoe classes and no ST for tyra
neat cairn
That’s generally good
It's good if it's versatile. But bad if the other two are not so if you want to play the other two, you're in a tough spot.
lofty yarrow
It's good if it's versatile. But bad if the other two are not so if you want to ...
True
shell ivy
but I still believe outlaw damage is way too consistent to give up just for the boss damage, besides the damage diff isn’t that big on bosses especially that in higher keys bosses get more hp and such I guess
Also crowd control
neat cairn
that was my mentality during BFA M+
I did okay sticking to Sin while the others were the AoE hitters since shit died too fast during push weeks anyway
And on Tyrannical you were the hero
shell ivy
I really felt like... I was missing something without gouge and kidney shotting without really missing dps
shell ivy
neat cairn
lofty yarrow
I really felt like... I was missing something without gouge and kidney shotting ...
Trueeee , u miss gouge and u never think you would 😂😂
neat cairn
I even partook in the Legion madness of 5 alts, same spec and hoped one of them got lucky enough on leggos
It works but damn
shell ivy
Ezactlyy, I also have like basically same key binds and I tend to press fucking gouge button when I don’t have anything on that key as sin
Just feels awkward
Anybody knows if there’s a way to overlap sin role on outlaw? 😭 I promised myself I’d get big parses before promoting myself to red
Now I did but I can’t get red
prisma crescent
@shell ivy you can't i tried 😦
prisma crescent
You can remove the outlaw role if you want for red name
shell ivy
shy dust
Gz on the 99
vital haven
ye big gratz my dude
lofty yarrow
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
lusty saddle
Just started playing my rogue @level 60 again. it might be my low haste or just not enough practice but aint it abit hard to get 3 Envenoms in every shiv window?
Also do you Mutilate from stealth or Ambush?
lusty saddle
thank you. its just not me being bad then
balmy condor
people have this odd fascination with counting envenoms during shiv
lusty saddle
It is better to ask and sound dumb then to be silent and remain dumb
ye i can imagine 😄
is 7.2sec the earliest you can refresh dots due to pandemic?
lofty yarrow
why simming as assassination diplays that mastery is a powerful stat ? compared to haste/crit/vers items
balmy condor
is 7.2sec the earliest you can refresh dots due to pandemic?
that's a 5cp rupture I believe
pandemic is 30% of the duration of the new dot being applied
so it changes based on cp/ability
like a 6cp slice is like 11 seconds or something crazy
and a garrote is always 5.4
balmy condor
the level that sims highest
tawdry falcon
very helpful thank you
balmy condor
my pleasure
lusty saddle
like a 6cp slice is like 11 seconds or something crazy
aha nice. ye i saw diffrent timers now if diffrent dots
balmy condor
very helpful thank you
for real though, 126% is the cap for haste, that seems pretty good
the bis list uses a level of haste between 0% and 126%
good luck!
tawdry falcon
i have about 10% haste now, and im wondering if that is low compared to the average
i feel that i wont be able to parse as well as ass as i will sub due to secondarys
balmy condor
there's way more variables that go into that
misty holly
It is pretty low. Haste is our best stat for single target
so you want a lot of geat with haste
so most people have a decent amount of it
balmy condor
If I may direct your attention to the pins
at the bottom of the FAQ
in BIG bold letters
misty holly
but like if your comparnig a 226 mastery/crit item against a 200 haste/vers item. The higher ilevel almost certainly wins out.
so its not like haste is all that matters
balmy condor
220 vs 226 is usually item level as well
agi is very strong
you gotta have really bad secondaries on the 226 for ilvl to not win tbh
misty holly
on dungeon slice all 4 of my secondaries are nearly identicle
tawdry falcon
my 207 neck is better than my 226 neck due to secondarys and a slot
misty holly
so its pure ilevel for me in dungeons
tawdry falcon
its pretty wild
royal lantern
my 207 neck is better than my 226 neck due to secondarys and a slot
its pretty much
royal lantern
if the item has mainstat, ilvl wins
if not, lower ilvl CAN be better
but like always, just sim it too be safe
balmy condor
^
tawdry falcon
it made me made when it dropped because the next is tanking my ilvl lol
the only reason i switched to assassin was so i can use it
royal lantern
i mean, nobody really cares about overall ilvl 
tawdry falcon
true, but when a 226 item drops for me, i feel an extreme need to be able to use it over something that is 2 tiers down
#feelsbadman
tawdry falcon
Blindside only sims about 18 more dps than EP, but do you think that the dps gap would be much wider in an actual fight? EP seems more fun to me
balmy condor
is that with vigor
tawdry falcon
it was without
balmy condor
wild
tawdry falcon
mfd because i forgot to change it
balmy condor
oh
well yeah
that's basically the same thing
or at least the same effect
mfd/vigor will start to sim lower and lower as you get gear/haste/crit
usually that gets fixed by going deeper, and keeping blindside
but you can run ep and vigor instead, at a slight loss
tawdry falcon
i gotcha, thats good to know
trying to bangerang shit into that 4 second window sounds like a more fun playstyle to me
reminds me of a spec that i used to know
balmy condor
the playstyle actually ends up being more uptime
higher uptime on ep rather than trying to force into ep
quasi grotto
should i be using memory of past sins with vanish or vendetta?
chilly lichen
Is assassination good in mm+ ?
balmy condor
should i be using memory of past sins with vanish or vendetta?
ideally with other people, but otherwise whenever
trinkets aren't buffed by our cooldowns
balmy condor
Is assassination good in mm+ ?
not really, no
willow isle
In m+ haste loses value bcs of multidoting right? But what is decent amount of haste to have decent mana regen in st boss fights?
limber lion
In m+ haste loses value bcs of multidoting right? But what is decent amount of h...
Energy regen you mean? Anyways, doesn't matter. There are no recommended %'s or breakpoints my guy
grim lion
royal lantern
maybe
balmy condor
perhaps
limber lion
My boy
balmy condor
its possible
eternal lance
really ?
eternal lance
so i must change my neck 😄
royal lantern
if an item gives mainstat, ilvl almost always wins
balmy condor
sims are the way to go
royal lantern
^ and just sim your stuff
eternal lance
k k
ty again
boys
aa can i have a swrod a dagger on assasin ? ori must just 2 dagger
limber lion
2 daggers
balmy condor
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
quasi grotto
how do i see pins?
also could someone help me with the opener macro
i get to phantom pot and it doesnt use it
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=30 mutilate, slice and dice, mutilate, garrote, rupture, Potion of Phantom Fire, Vendetta, Mutilate, Shiv, Flagellation, Mutilate, Vanish, memory of past sins, Envenom, Mutilate, Envenom, Vendetta
balmy condor
how do i see pins?
this button
I would assume it gets to the potion and breaks because it's not a cast
but also just don't macro your opener
chilly lichen
not really, no
Ok ok ty
quasi grotto
but also just don't macro your opener
makes my life eaasier haha
royal lantern
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=30 mutilate, slice and dice, mutilate, garrot...
castsequence macros dont work for....i dont know how long now, 8years?
quasi grotto
defo works up until that point lol
balmy condor
even though they're incredibly stupid
and serve no purpose
and the same is true here
actually probably hinders you
more than actually helps you
nice filter hit
balmy condor
indeed
royal lantern
"community figure" smh
balmy condor
and now moroes will forever know your name
forever logged
as hitting the auto-filter
never forgotten by our superior robotic overlords
anyways back to the topic at hand
don't macro your opener
cause that's really fucking stupid
balmy condor
no it's actually just stupid
quasi grotto
but how
quasi grotto
it literally does it in the order lol
balmy condor
yes
have you ever considered
that the order you do that in
is not always the same
royal lantern
it breeds bad habbits, and there are moments where you dont just do all at once
like, you dont use pots on pull on all bosses anymore
quasi grotto
agreed on the bad habits
balmy condor
and if you play blindside you'll get a proc
royal lantern
cus of the new pot system
quasi grotto
and also the pot actually your right
royal lantern
ye blindside too
balmy condor
and if you play deeper strat, you won't finish on those finishers
quasi grotto
so if i proc blindisde
balmy condor
and if you play fae, you won't vanish there
quasi grotto
do i use it then carry on witht ehj opener?
balmy condor
and if you play flag, you would have to cast that somewhere else
red pagoda
if you get a blindside proc during ma you probably don't want to use it immediately right? cause mutilate can give you more cp?
balmy condor
and if you're in m+, forget that whole thing entirely
balmy condor
if you get a blindside proc during ma you probably don't want to use it immediat...
you do
quasi grotto
i polay sub in m+ LOL
balmy condor
i polay sub in m+ LOL
I'm sorry for your loss
not that we're much better
but that's mega oof
royal lantern
not that we're much better
dont break the hearths of some people in this channel man
im a sin at hearth, and i still would not play it in m+ lmao
red pagoda
can't beat the 
quasi grotto
back to the dummy i go then
limber lion
Buff sin
balmy condor
back to the dummy i go then
just learn your opener
or don't
openers don't actually matter that much
just press your cooldowns, get your uptimes going
good enough
royal lantern
10min at the dummy and the musclememory is there
quasi grotto
i spent longer on it yesterday lol
balmy condor
will do you about as good as that silly fucking cast sequence macro you started this with
actually probably better
to be honest
limber lion
i spent longer on it yesterday lol
Time wasted if you used it on pressing your cast sequence macro.
quasi grotto
got it bosses
limber lion
Just one bossman here and it's the one with the anime pfp
quasi grotto
is there any CDs is hould ideally line up ? liek vanish in vend window? and obvs shivs
balmy condor
vanish + vend line up naturally, and should be used together
shiv should be used on cooldown, or held for up to 12 seconds going into a vendetta
sepsis and flag should be used on cooldown, unless you are sure you won't miss a cast of them, in which case you would sync with the nearest vendetta
royal lantern
Just one bossman here and it's the one with the anime pfp
?my pic is not anime?
limber lion
?my pic is not anime?
balmy condor
necrolord is cast if you are about to overcap, or to generate in a shiv window
limber lion
Neither is Whispyr's to be fair afaik
balmy condor
trinkets are to be cast on cooldown, stat-giving trinkets to be cast with vendetta when possible
royal lantern
whisp pic is ~7/10 on the anime scale
balmy condor
pic is from a manga technically, but is a cultural icon
similar to something like uh.......
limber lion
This man has been training his aim for over 2 hours now.
balmy condor
it's just been open in the background
actually have had it open for about 37 hours now
royal lantern
biggliest aim
you could get flawless trials in destiny with that whisp
nah, who am i kidding
just get a 120 handcannon and let autoaim do the job
balmy condor
arm gets tired of training aim, so I built a robot, to train my mouse, to aim
it's the future
balmy condor
or maybe I'm a robot made by fuu
to answer questions
because moroes can't keep up
royal lantern
did we EVER see whispyr and fuu in the same room? 
limber lion
balmy condor
doubtful considering he lives in a country I have only visited 4 times in my life, and only to visit semi-distant relatives
but I suppose it's possible he could have been in a public area at the same time I was
limber lion
A pretty good backstory ngl, not sure if I buy it
limber lion
Welp
royal lantern
limber lion
Where is Fuu even from?
balmy condor
austria
limber lion
Ah that makes sense, had no clue tbh
Just kinda assumed some middle European country
And Germany fit the bill pretty well
balmy condor
ronkles is irish, shiennar is some viking shit idc
royal lantern
thats cus quite a few of the regulars/CF are german
limber lion
ronkles is irish, shiennar is some viking shit idc
Lmao
limber lion
Yeh makes sense then
Gotta say that typing on the phone is awful
Need to get me one of those oldschool Blackberry's with the keypad
Oh btw I hit 7k sim yesterday, are you proud of me? 
limber lion
yeah sure I guess
:'((
limber lion
i will hit 7k the moment i get a 223weapon
A 223 weapon? 
drifting cloud
only impressive if its 7k without wft!
royal lantern
im valor capped
limber lion
You can get 220 weapons with valor and easily from the vault if you do 10 m+ a week
limber lion
Welp
Well idk, I bought 220 weapons from PvP and have had 3 226 weapons from thr vault
And I do 4 mythic dungeons a week, if at all.
But yeh, RNG is RNG.
drifting cloud
I got 220 from 1st sire kill then I didnt get any till CE
now in the past 3 weeks ive gotten 233 and 2x 226 from raid options
limber lion
I've killed Sire every week on hc and not once have I gotten a single item.
drifting cloud
limber lion
I've only got a DFV which was traded to me
balmy condor
I've killed Sire every week on hc and not once have I gotten a single item.
saaaaaaaaame
well
for the last like 9 weeks or something
but still
limber lion
Yeh it's fucked
drifting cloud
Ive gotten 0 220 options from raid vault aswell clearing hc every week
balmy condor
I had a 207 helm from our first sire kill on normal
and then saw no helmet
until last week when someone traded me the 220 helm
quartz kelp
guys its fine you'll get your loot since we'll have another 4 months till next tier :))
drifting cloud
@quartz kelp what you doing here
frail fossil
Nop
gray bobcat
neato
frail fossil
Bis list are dead 
balmy condor
yeh monkes make me deleto
royal lantern
But yeh, RNG is RNG.
so, my luck with loot:
since launch i did all 3 vaults with m+
since mythic launch minimum 1x mythic from vault
so every week atleast 4 223 choices
im valor capped from spamming PF trying too get phial/the weapon
im still using 213 daggers, 213 1h weapons on outlaw, have a 207 phial and 220 feet
🙂
limber lion
At that point you should just go do PvP honestly. You can get rival in rbgs in a day and then jusy buy everything at 220
limber lion
Lmao fair enough
I only do my weeklies and then play something else
I guess pushing for a higher m+ score would be fun, but that would require a group to do it without wanting to kms after every dungeon.
stiff mountain
anyone here does help with logs?
royal lantern
@balmy condor ?
balmy condor
?
valid spoke
looking for new pins @quartz kelp
balmy condor
unlucky
stiff mountain
its not rly help
quartz kelp
stiff mountain
jsut a question im confused
balmy condor
whats the question
quartz kelp
@valid spoke no leaking
stiff mountain
pmd it
valid spoke
<@!260063852253806593> no leaking
quartz kelp
plush jewel
Hi all, i play outlaw but i needed to have Venthyr for my group. We mainly run 15. What do you think about switching to Assa. After 9.0.5 will it be better in m+ than ow?
balmy condor
no
plush jewel
thank you 😄
eternal lance
can i ask somthing guys ?
i see a assasin rouge he transmog 2handed weapons on his dagger 😐
How it posible\
limber lion
That's impossible but you can transmog Outlae artifact-weapons on Assa.
But take it to #transmog
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
cunning wyvern
Hi all, i play outlaw but i needed to have Venthyr for my group. We mainly run 1...
Just go Outlaw venth