#assassination

1 messages · Page 4063 of 1

shy dust
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You don’t do burst damage

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That’s just not what you’re there to do

dense bramble
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i only have those 2 options

stoic needle
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MA makes us do more

dense bramble
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gonna fight it now

shy dust
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It’s basically improving sometning you suck dick at

stoic needle
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its better than doing nothing about it

shy dust
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Or

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Understand

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It’s not your role to break shields

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Just like it wasn’t outlaws role to break shields

spice spire
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C R A C K E D

shy dust
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Not everyone whose brought to slg has their job of

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Bursting the shield

weak horizon
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I feel like sin can burst shields hard on sun king at least

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Haven't gotten to slg so can't speak to that. But vendetta + shiv + master assassin talent felt like I busted

shy dust
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Sin is good for breaking a shield on sunking

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But the discussion was for slg

onyx cove
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What lego and talents you guys running in m+? They all feel so clunky

charred arrow
wide ridge
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that build is even better on fortified weeks

plucky lynx
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Hello guys, I would like to know if you can help me with a question. Actually, I have the NF, Kyrian and Necrolords pact at the most, and I would like to know if it is worth upgrading the venthyr pact to pvp? I play rogue ASS

void pecan
sleek sparrow
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lads

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we finally got the phial

shy dust
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Gz

gloomy knoll
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how much is pi worth for sin now

shy dust
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Like 350ish

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According to the pi

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Spreadsheet

gloomy knoll
#

interesting

shell ivy
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do u have a link?

shy dust
shell ivy
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damn, thanks

uncut ledge
#

Can you sim if a m+ item will be better after upgraded with valor?

balmy condor
shy dust
#

Droptimizer 220 items

strange python
#

Yo guys, i have several questions regarding sin (played sub until now):

1: How does the opening looks like?
2: Flag/Sepsis befor vendetta? Should i wait until it lines up with vendetta again or use it on cd?
3: How much haste do i need?
4: Shiv on cd or do i wait until i have 4/5 cps and enough energy and use it then?
5: Is positioning importand? (like backstab)
6. On fights like huntsman or council, should i use mutilate or echo for more cps (like sub with shurikenstorm)?
7: Should i prioritize my bleeds on 2+ targets and wait until i have enough time/energy for shiv burst or use it on cd aswell and dot after? (huntsman for example)
8: Wait reapplying bleeds until vendetta is over? And what about 2+ targets?
9: Doombalde or zoldyck?

Dont mind my english peophammer

void pecan
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!guide

prisma monolithBOT
void pecan
#

also

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for legendary info

prisma crescent
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Yeah read through some guides and the pins, most of your questions can be answered there

shy dust
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Will be answered

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By reading a guide

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I’m not even kidding

uneven plume
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guys

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what are the best conduits for sin pvp

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as necro

shy dust
balmy condor
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My mans really be writing a 500 word short novel instead of just a 5 second google

void pecan
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least he didn't come in he saying he watched a youtube video that said X stat prio

balmy condor
shy dust
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Should probably wait for an answer there

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Given these spec channels are pve centric

void pecan
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I imagine the difference between conduits is.. nearly negligible for pvp

outer siren
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That channel doesn't have a whispyr chained to his table @balmy condor 😏😂

balmy condor
outer siren
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Hahaha

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One day you will be free of your chains whisp

balmy condor
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There’s a reason why Google is the most used webpage in the world

void pecan
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because of the microchips bill gates installed in us to control our minds

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tells us to use it

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right?

prisma crescent
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Why google when Whispyr can tell me what to do?

loud light
shy dust
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Sub is also pve centric

tribal stag
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Is it worth crafting zoldyck if I already have good outlaw gear? Or is outlaw just significantly better for keys and cleave that it's not worth it and I should just make doomblade

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I'm torn

balmy condor
loud light
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:thats the joke:

balmy condor
tribal stag
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Yeah so I guess my question is does it make any sense to not make doomblade if I already have a good outlaw set

prisma crescent
balmy condor
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Probably what I would do as well unless you’re looking at sire prog soon

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Zold is very valuable on sire

tribal stag
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Yeah not making it there so Doomblade it is

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#casual

shell ivy
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Promoting myself with sin role finally 😎

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Now the question do I stick with yellow or do I go red

shy dust
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Yellow is evil

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Let go of outlaw

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Embrace an actual rogue spec

fleet anchor
prisma crescent
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It's just a website with a sound clip that says "check the pins" kekw

shell ivy
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gotta prove myself i am worth that red and wait til I get 98 parses

prisma crescent
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Wait I added the outlaw role and now im yellow

shell ivy
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wtf.

prisma crescent
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I wanna be red

shy dust
balmy condor
shell ivy
balmy condor
fleet anchor
torn atlas
balmy condor
prisma crescent
balmy condor
#

Come on down to whispyr’s knowledge emporium! We got all sorts of knowledge, small knowledge, big knowledge, and we got some special deals right now just for you! Ask one question, get one free! And for a limited time, if you ask a pinned question, you’ll even get flamed, completely free of charge! Make sure to get it fast while supplies of whispyr’s patience lasts.

grand echo
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guys in outlaw were talking about simming the old wotlk dagger which has energy regen chance on hit, i actually got interested about it and tried to run some sims with assa & DS talent (because energy downtime) but yeah it seems obvious these sims are not very accurate with this old dagger. It's actually not showing the dagger's buff (Invigoration?) at all but instead it shows the old paladin blessing of light kekw

balmy condor
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I think it would actually be much worse for sin

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Than the other specs

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Mutilate damage is affected by offhand dps

grand echo
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Oh, yeah

fleet anchor
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I mean

grand echo
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but cant trust these sims anyway. It's only showing ~50dps difference and the buff is wrong

fleet anchor
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I doubt that dagger works correctly automatically

balmy condor
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Yeah I mean if it was right

lament dove
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"Stay a while and listen!"
(now you read Whispyr's comments in Cain's voice)

balmy condor
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But who even implements wrath items

grand echo
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but now I have an urge to go try get it for the luls and dummy whacking (with different specs)

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tru

fleet anchor
# 
Effects          :
#1 (id=65602)    : Apply Aura (6) | Dummy (4)
                   Base Value: 20 | Scaled Value: 20 | PvP Coefficient: 1.00000 | Trigger Spell: 71870 | Target: Self (1)
Description      : Your melee attacks have a chance to trigger Invigoration, granting you $71882s1 energy, ${$71883m1/10} rage, or $71881s1 mana every 2 sec for $71882d.
#

Name : Blessing of Light (id=71870)

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The trigger spell on the dagger is wrong

charred arrow
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207 Phial drop POG

fleet anchor
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It would need custom coding if it actually wokred to use the correct spell..

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And Blizzard would nerf it instantly if it was actually good

median igloo
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rip force multiplier

balmy condor
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And agi gems

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And old set bonuses

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And old legendaries

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And azerite

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And everything with a level cap

stoic needle
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Do legion legendaries still work Hmm

balmy condor
stoic needle
balmy condor
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If they still worked you’d be sure as fuck people wouldve abused it

low girder
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they don't work at all, they deactivated them in SL

balmy condor
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They work in tw I thought

shy dust
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Not anymore

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It was deactivated there too

low girder
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yeah they got the "legacy" tag

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like the daggers

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bfa cloak still works though

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for now

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(for 50 and below, and tw)

dense hamlet
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neck poggers

balmy condor
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Insane

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Nerfing tw legendaries

low girder
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nerfing those but not nerfing the pre-legendary wod ring with 15% main stat proc

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🤔

fleet anchor
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I mean

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I suspect it was more the fact that getting them to work together with the new legendaries was going to be problematic

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Quite a lot of them had already rotted

balmy condor
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It pains me to see blizzard throw away 3 years of systems development at the end of every expansion

low girder
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a lot of them. mostly mean the tier sets, but i suppose they're always worried about degen stuff like what happened at the end of wod

balmy condor
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Possibly the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever seen in my life

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Could just ya know, design systems to last more than a year

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But what do I know

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I’m sure no other games do that /s

subtle tundra
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i want them to do corruptions ago but with the lesson learned from 8.3

balmy condor
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They make a system, and then delete it and add it back in the next expansion

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Except that they close their eyes and try to add it back from memory

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So it’s just the same system but slightly shittier

dense hamlet
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i would like to see essences back cuz why the fuck not

subtle tundra
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damn just started a +4 key and nothing's happening

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the big barrier didnt go away

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no countdown

dense hamlet
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nice

subtle tundra
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i feel bad for the russian healer with the key

dense hamlet
steel wagon
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so do we no longer vanish envenom? we vanish mutilate?

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or is it because we have enough time with MA buff to mut then envnom?

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wouldnt it be more optimal to get 4+ cp prior to vanish and then try to get two envenoms?

balmy condor
steel wagon
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yeah im used to mutilate before vanish legit did that shit for years

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it doesnt sound like it makes much of a difference just muscle memory tho

stoic needle
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should i spend 5k ash to recraft my MA as haste/vers or just upgrade my vers/mastery one to 235 and eat the ~40 dps loss for sin and ~8 dps loss for outlaw amonkaHmm

final star
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What legendary don't you have

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Rather than what you already have

subtle tundra
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my MA is haste crit makes me kinda mad

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and its on finger so it has a fuckload of crit

limber lion
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Mine is Crit/Verse :'(( made it as my first legendary for Sub

reef axle
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Tempted to recraft my gloves which is haste verse to haste crit for that extra 10 dps lol

subtle tundra
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i aint gonna recraft shit

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have 6 leggos only 1 max rank

cunning surge
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Same on this end
I'll keep my H/C Zoldyck and Doomblade, fuck making another for a small DPS increase in comparison to the Ash/Effort needed

ebon thorn
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Yo

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This dagger from icc nuts?

sleek sparrow
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if true thats fuckin hilarious

stark heart
balmy condor
balmy condor
stark heart
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Too many mutilates :(

final star
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@stark heart u stinky

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I demand you change name to the correct Lørentz

stark heart
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No, I have to do it in game because regular o is taken almost always

final star
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At least you still play rogue tbh

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I see toph on warrior at all times

stark heart
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Playing rogue at the start of sl felt like a mistake, ngl

final star
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so much so that I stopped raiding

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was not enjoying it

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m+ fun

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well, not this week

subtle tundra
vestal wren
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they also buffed assassination on accident.
As stated in their bluepost:

this patch was not intended to be a significant shakeup to current damage balance.

final star
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🙄

little sky
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ohei erryone

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so, something new popped out in. these few days?

balmy condor
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nop

little sky
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ok, gotta learn assa well.

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i do 4.5k ish and i'm ranking sub 20% 😄

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i suck 😛

stiff vine
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playing assassination for mythic council of blood, when the attendant comes out, is it worth to reapply bleed to immune boss instead of attendant that’s going to last a few seconds ?

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or just envenom with no bleeds?

fallow otter
vestal wren
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its a joke

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its great that they buffed rogue to be competitive even if they never intended to make balance changes in this patch

final star
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It's more that they meant the bug fixes for the buffed specs this hotfix

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That really fucked over Monk especially

little sky
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@vestal wren it's just collateral damage. they buffed assa a lot, then they buffed venthyr, then they added back cttc

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sum all of these and you get current situation

vestal wren
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i think they stated in the qa that their idea is to make balance changes in the "content patches"

little sky
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funniest part is that it's not even broken. it's just balanced.

vestal wren
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idk if i would say collateral damage

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its just "what happens if we buff everything from the spec"

final star
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Rogue in my guild is playing assassination on denathrius

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He is flat out bottom of the meters

subtle tundra
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as he should*

final star
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But highest boss damage

vestal wren
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they buffed aura, legedary powers, fixed dps negative bugs, added a new passive and buffed the covenants/conduits

stark heart
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Now check p3 damage which is the important part of the fight

vestal wren
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does seem very intended overall

final star
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They haven't progged P3 yet

little sky
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i was referring more to mm/monk

final star
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They've got to it 3 or 4 times

vestal wren
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and i am happy to see rogue getting compatitive

versed mica
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sin is ez to not be bottom meter

little sky
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assa just got buff over buffs over buffs. and now it's at level. given the amiunt of buffs, something went terribly wrong in the tuning part of the beta

vestal wren
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monk/mm nerfs are a direct consequence of bugfixes

versed mica
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just smash the button

vestal wren
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so ye, the buffs are just making sure that both remain strong in the current meta

little sky
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i honestly take all of these and put them in the common "SL has so many convoluted systems it's unbalanceable"

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touch one thing, ripples affect multiple others.

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happy that rogue is in a good spot. yet after all the. buffs we're still behind lots of ranged dps and we're basically fine. so my conclusion is that the buffs were needed

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i'm curious how they will fuck up the scaling 😄

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(as every single time btw)

vestal wren
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scaling hasn't been a issue for a long time

stark heart
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Scaling is a buzzword that should be straight banned

little sky
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don't think so. with more gear things will shuffle up, it all depends how impactful it will be

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scaling is there. it's not just the be all end all

dark crag
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Imagine killing sludge for the first time with 6.4k dps and being middle of the raid but getting benched for next id because melee

balmy condor
little sky
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are we really at that poiint? sorry, i've been out of theorycrafting for quite a bunch - i think at least from legion

balmy condor
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yes

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we really are

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it wasn't even a thing in legion really

subtle tundra
balmy condor
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there just wasn't enough of a pushback against using nonsense buzzwords back then

subtle tundra
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also 6.4k is low on sludgefist

little sky
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@balmy condor okie.

fallow otter
little sky
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@subtle tundra 6.4k seems impossible to me lol i think my major issue is slow reflexes and nto pressing enough buttons

subtle tundra
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its about sludgefist

dark crag
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6.4k maybe low vs people who farm it, but for first kills

subtle tundra
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sludgefist is a low variance boss

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after some pulls you should be doing consistant good dps

dark crag
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And yet it was more vs some ranges with 6 melees + tank

ebon thorn
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@balmy condor i hope so

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LOL

little sky
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btw nerfs to sludge and generals incoming

balmy condor
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one of these things

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is not like the other

ebon thorn
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Damn Blessing of light for rogues

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spicy changes

little sky
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just a question about my damage profile as assa.

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what kind of damage distribution should i see?

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to check what i'm doing wrong.

balmy condor
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kinda depends on legendary but usually melee/envenom at the top followed by the instant part of deadly poison, followed by rupture/garrote, then mutilate/ambush/dot poison

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as long as you have close to 100% uptime on slice/rup/garrote, and you hit vend/shiv/covenant ability on cooldown

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you're good

little sky
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ok

balmy condor
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spec plays itself from there

little sky
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i'll work on the dummies for a while to get muscle memory on the rotation up and running

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and check if the damage fits to see if i'm doing something really wrong.

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i don't pretend to reach sim-levels of dps but i know i can do better and want to do better.

limber lion
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And that's incentive enough. You'll get better if you want to get better and work on it.

stark heart
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Scaling within tier is irrelevant

gloomy fern
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Gz on slg free kill next reset

stark heart
#

Scaling between tiers called tuning passes

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The end

little sky
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i had my share of cutting edge progress in the past, like wotlk and ongoing through MoP. but now i'm older, busy and content with HC. doesn't mean i don't want to perform as as possible.

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*as good

limber lion
gloomy fern
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actually insane nerfs

limber lion
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There's some people in my guild that feel sad that we didn't kill it before the nerfs

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But tbh, I don't give a shit. I'm just happy that we'll finally get over it

iron orchid
limber lion
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And don't have to do it again

iron orchid
#

But that fight is so shitty, i just feel relieved

limber lion
#

Our strategy and tactic were flawed

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And I'll gladly kill the boss with the nerfs than sit around for 150 more wipes before they switch up the tactic

gloomy fern
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mm hunters were not top tier for 1 week, buffed instantly monkahmm

vocal karma
#

Hey, quick question, with tomorrows reset I have the option to either upgrade my Doomblade to 235 or Craft Zoldyck at 210 (and upgrade next week to 225) or craft a 210 Celerity for occasional Outlaw usage (having only 210 MA for that until now), which one would you guys take?

subtle tundra
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the bug fixes were unintentional nerfs

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and they didnt want to fuck up the balancing randomly

gloomy fern
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hunters were still perfectly fine, just not omega carried by a cov ability

little sky
subtle tundra
#

they didnt want them to drop by a lot just cause of bug fixes

little sky
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btw, i found just cheaper overall to craft rank 3. cause people skipped it all the time so buying rank 3 was just easier. i don't even know if i want to upgrade to rank 4

limber lion
vocal karma
#

Ok, thank you for the answers!

raven gyro
#

!guide

prisma monolithBOT
native lynx
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Why is zold better for m+?

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because of multiple bleeds executing on trash?

subtle tundra
#

its mostly that we dont have a proper aoe leggo

untold nest
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Most other classes would dump dmg on start of trash pull, leaving the last % kinda dry on dmg so zold helps, Doomblade is a ST leggo and MA kinda wasted on garrote spaming i believe

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Making zoldyck most viable option for m+

ornate gazelle
#

I wonder how good a necro mastery build with sudden fractures could be.

native lynx
#

looks like a 30 dps difference in aoe, not sure zold is worth it for that

timber gale
#

so I’m at 30/20/30 crit haste mastery & as someone who’s been learning Sin for a few months and gotten pretty good in a short time I think!! I still don’t really understand the differences between Vigor and Deeper Stratagem, and when I’d want to begin using one over the other

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Was hoping y’all could help me understand the trade offs more

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I’d imagine swapping off vigor will feel pretty bad for a while

native lynx
#

ive heard 15% haste is when you can start using DS, but sim is still king for it

slender berry
timber gale
#

That’s not what I’m really asking, sorry

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I mean like high level what are the differences in what one gets you over the other

native lynx
#

damage

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or less damage

ornate gazelle
#

Aside from just whichever sims better, the feeling would be Vigor feels a little quicker and DS feels slower but hits a little harder. Again, just sim to see which actually is better, but that's how they'll each feel regardless of damage.

native lynx
#

vigor increases qol at low haste levels, but once you have adequate haste you trade the energey regen for more damage, and you wont notice it much

fallow solar
#

Anyone recommend a good set of weak auras for ass?

timber gale
#

Sure, thanks!

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I just know when I started out playing I picked vigor bc it felt ‘easier’ but I appreciate the clarification

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I usually start with picking passive talents that feel like they’re good no matter what and then work towards figuring out the others

slender berry
#

It really just depends on your gear / covenant so simming is the only answer

dusk bronze
#

@timber gale I'd like to add that, beside the obvious sim comparison, you want to consider that Vigor might be more beneficial at bosses where you need to move out of melee range for longer than, say, 5 secs
(with DS you cap energy sooner than with Vigor). If the simmed difference isn't that big I'd consider this advantage

sterile pecan
#

Hey Guyz, i know this has probably been asked a million times by now, but what would be the best covenant to go for when ur playing assas in raid, and outlaw in m+?

balmy condor
#

probably necro if you value m+ more, and venthyr if you value raid more

sacred thicket
#

gonna ask and sound like a fool but... do ass rogues need daggers in both hands?

elfin valley
#

@fallow solar i like the afenar one a lot

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!wa

prisma monolithBOT
little sky
#

@sacred thicket yes, due to mutilate.

sacred thicket
#

sumbitch

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thought I might try building out the legendary and raid with it but my daggers game is eeks

little sky
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luckied out with the weekly cache right the week 9.0.5 hit live and got a sweet 226 😄

sacred thicket
#

might open it up as assassination just to see.

little sky
#

yeah, i swapped loot spec as soon as theyc hanged venthyr skill

sacred thicket
#

I'm too lazy to change from night fae

little sky
#

i have 223/216 as outlaw, so not bad, while daggers were only 200

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was venthyr already so 😄

sacred thicket
#

I got a 216 dagger from before I went outlaw but only a 187 dagger for off hand...

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guess it's not that big of a deal.

little sky
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suppose that getting something out of mists and upgrade with valor is a good way to target it

sacred thicket
#

yeah... soon as I get ksm

little sky
#

still a little behind on schedule, but i'm doing my 14s, hope to start 15s the following week

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then it's just an attrition game

oak trout
#

when do i need to use flaggelation in the rotation?

final star
#

Before a finisher

spice spire
#

The correct answer depends on the fight iirc. If you’re length is >6 minutes, on CD. I’d it’s sub 6, line it up with vendetta

final star
#

Fight is 3 mins you wanna use on cd

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Fight is 4.5mins you wanna use on cd

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Can't really win either way so likely better to use it on CD unless lining it up is beneficial for the fight

hidden crypt
#

sorry if it's there somewhere but i can't see it on pins but what soulbinds do you guys use in m+ venthyr?

limber lion
hidden crypt
#

thanks 🙂

onyx wind
#

Bro what are these sludgefist nerfs...

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such a joke

barren wagon
#

The top two weakaura sets that bot posts are from BFA, reckon they need removed?

frail fossil
onyx wind
#

no...

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If u werent gonna soak before, ur still gonna miss it

frail fossil
#

didn't they make it easier to soak ? like it takes more time to explode or smth

pearl canyon
#

like both nadjia and theotar has useless last row if specced into 2 potencies

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but theotar gives mastery buff frequently which buffs bleed damage

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which is aoe

plain thistle
#

good luck using that shield from theotar ( the one below the second potency )

limber lion
#

Thrill Seeker just does better.

plain thistle
#

break stealth

limber lion
#

The umbrella is super random and can drop to a shitty spot

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And the rpm is like once a minute

onyx wind
limber lion
#

Thrill Seeker pops quite often when you're killing mobs all the time

pearl canyon
#

oh it breaks stealth? xd

onyx wind
#

U think thrill seeker is better, but it pops at the end of packs sooo often

pearl canyon
#

does it stack in m+?

onyx wind
#

does what stack?

limber lion
#

I don't understand either of those questions sorry

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What stacks, what breaks stealth?

pearl canyon
#

at the start of the expac ive tried thrill and it didnt stack at all from the killing mobs inside the dungeons

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i mean that doesnt it just stacks manually like 1 per 2s or something

onyx wind
#

Yea thrill uptime is kinda high but you mostly proc it as ur killing a pack

limber lion
pearl canyon
#

if i last hit it(deal the killing blow) or just by participating in a kill?

limber lion
#

So if 2 mobs die within 2s of each other, you'd get 9* stacks.

onyx wind
#

Just participating

pearl canyon
#

oh

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thats huge, ty

onyx wind
#

Only dungeons where i would consider nadja over theotar would be ToP and SoA

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since in SoA the mobs have very different health pools

#

so the chance of u proccing thrill seeker is high in those packs

#

and ToP had a lot of single target, where dauntless dualist is huge

#

especially for the damage reduction on higher keys

jovial sphinx
#

So would u say its better to go wiht 1 potency for m+ or 2 ?

onyx wind
#

I always go for 1 only, but im also doing higher keys

#

You can prob go 2x potency if ur pugging lower keys

hidden crypt
#

i noticed this week thrill seeker popping during spiteful shades all the time, gets quite annoying

onyx wind
jovial sphinx
#

Normaly i run 13-16

wary pawn
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

onyx wind
#

2x potency is viable and sims higher, but it doesnt take into account the damage your group gets from tea party

#

last row theotar

frigid kestrel
onyx wind
#

I think having 6% vers and 3% vers on entire group outweighs almost any damage increase within a reasonable margin

#

No, also i dont sim dungeon slice

limber lion
onyx wind
#

But some people say that 2x potency sims higher

frigid kestrel
#

Dam and Dam reduction

limber lion
#

I love verse myself, but exeo is a true believer of crit

#

He doesn't trust vers

onyx wind
#

You can give dauntless dualist to ur entire group, and on every target :O

jovial sphinx
#

Okay then its better to pick LS of somthing else?

limber lion
#

Lashing Scars always as Venthyr

#

For all content

#

I personally play double potency myself, but the difference is very minimal so doesn't really matter.

#

Just play what you think is sick

frigid kestrel
#

But for anything less then a 20, Vers doesnt mean much

onyx wind
#

Lets say you play with a boomie and fire mage

hidden crypt
#

it's still flat damage inrease, not only defensive

frigid kestrel
#

For survivability that is

onyx wind
#

Giving them 3% extra damage on every 2x combusts is huge

#

If you add the damage they gained from tea party to your overall

#

i guarantee it outperforms any other conduit

#

by a mile

#

but if ur playing with something that doesnt do all their damage in a 10 second window, it might be different

wary pawn
#

best 2 rings for assa in ur opinion guys?

onyx wind
#

Outside m+?

#

with vault, denathrius + plaguefall

#

without vault, denathrius+inerva

limber lion
wary pawn
#

plaguefall one is better than NW one?

lofty shell
#

sire has mastery on it right

onyx wind
#

not really better, very very equal

#

but in my opinion, which you asked for, i think crit > haste

lofty shell
#

im rocking plaguefall + inerva ring atm

onyx wind
#

yea mastery on sire

wary pawn
#

ty 4 info, will farm plaguefalls

limber lion
#

You should sim it tbh. Every ring is different depending on your other stats.

limber lion
lofty shell
#

i've done quite the amount of plaguefalls this weekj

#

no phial 😦

onyx wind
#

farmed it out on first week

#

tyrannical

#

was a blast :) :)

lofty shell
#

i did get some nice gloves i might upgrade

onyx wind
#

yea so many good items from plaguefall

#

gloves, ring, trinket, wep

lofty shell
#

ye i got pretty much all except trinket

#

got the dagger last week

#

if phial appears in vault its all fine kekw

onyx wind
#

phial reminds me of darkmoon trinket from bfa

#

feels like it doesnt do anything until u check meters

shadow pivot
#

i hate random dmg proc trinket being strong

#

atleast phial isnt random

lofty shell
#

i had it since first week vault

#

and does pretty decent dmg tho i feel like it doesnt do anything

frigid kestrel
#

ok so stupid question, is there something that reduces the CD of FLag?

#

Caus Tea Time tooltip dont make sense

lofty shell
#

tea time is the vers buff ?

frigid kestrel
onyx wind
#

nothing reduces cd apart from priest night fae

#

sadly

#

nvm thats vendetta

#

ofc

lofty shell
onyx wind
#

true actually

#

how much % is it?

frigid kestrel
#

So why in the fuck cant tea time be procced but once a minute when the Flag CD is 1.5

shadow pivot
#

for the sake of that tooltip saying you can't benefit from it more than once every 60s, I guess you could use the exemple of that random battleground bonus resetting all your cooldowns

frigid kestrel
#

not that it matters, just doesnt make sense

pearl canyon
onyx wind
pearl canyon
#

with their blessing

frigid kestrel
#

That makes total sense

onyx wind
#

:P

frigid kestrel
#

Here i am thinking that Sin rogue is the only class in game

shadow pivot
#

imagine these venthyr warrior stacking versa buff all over the place during condemn phase kekw

grave cove
#

!guide

prisma monolithBOT
lofty shell
#

i was like yea blizz tooltips gona be blizz tooltips

frigid kestrel
gloomy fern
#

well rogue is not the only class playing venthyr

#

other venthyr abilities have 1 min cd etc

stoic needle
#

I looted 3 phials last week, and a low level pox PepeKMS

whole dew
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

stiff vine
#

how many targets do i put rupture on for m+

onyx wind
#

i do on all until pulls are above 4-5 targets

#

if more than that, i put 3 ruptures and 3 garrotes and spam FoK + ct/envenom

whole dew
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

whole dew
#

its for st

limber lion
slender berry
nimble spoke
#

Is Venthyr the play if I want to play Sin in M+ and also want to pvp/raid?

little sky
#

necro seems better suited for M+ due to its spammable/cleave nature and also works with blade flurry

old depot
#

When do you use CT over Envenom in cleave? 4+ targets?

stoic needle
#

this is sin channel

nimble spoke
#

"Sin in M+"

stoic needle
#

and SBS doesn't flurry

little sky
#

but you can got to KSM with Venthyr and have no issues.

lofty shell
little sky
#

yeah, initial dmg.

nimble spoke
#

the initial does. Would be broken if the dot did haha

lofty shell
#

the dot dmg is nothing anyway

nimble spoke
#

I'm thinking more the debuff, and the resets. Probably a worse problem in lower keys

stoic needle
#

oh i was under the impression that the initial damage didn't flurry

#

but yeah, venthyr is perfectly fine for sin in keys

#

it just reinforces your role as single target pumper

lofty shell
#

same for flag, only the initial hit does some flurry dmg

#

but yea that'sn no issue in this channel ofc

nimble spoke
#

guess my raid will have to deal with my damage being a bit lower today, I started the swap last week

stoic needle
#

but theotar's mastery proc does give some decent aoe damage

lofty shell
#

i feel like that stuff doesn't proc a lot tho

stoic needle
#

better do your weekly lfr clear for some renown!

#

it procs about once or twice per pack which is more than enough

nimble spoke
#

I originally went Necro because I thought I would play outlaw in M+. But then I realized that I much prefer Sin in raid and in general, and also plan to pvp.

lofty shell
#

sin feels nice inm+ but outlaw is just so much easier to pull off

stoic needle
#

i've been playing more outlaw because of spiteful last week and enjoying it

#

MA+KS is a lot of fun, i'm gonna try dreadblades flag this week kekw

nimble spoke
#

I only plan on doing 15s but won't mind playing outlaw every now and then if the dungeon/affixes call for it

lofty shell
#

gouge in spiteful is pretty good

stoic needle
#

i could see myself swapping between the two specs depending on affixes and dungeon

#

once i get a fucking mainhand

subtle kiln
lofty shell
#

i'm so lucky on weapons lol.. got 220 sword and daggers

little sky
#

i have choosen my covenant solely based on cool looking transmogs and it just happened to become good 😄

lofty shell
#

yep that's the real bis gamer move

subtle kiln
#

necro can give some people sweaty hands trying to min max sbs

stoic needle
lofty shell
stoic needle
#

i started out necro and then went venthyr for the mog

#

and then switched to fae because old flag was dogshit

#

glad to be back to venthyr

nimble spoke
#

I like SBS, don't get me wrong. It feels nice to use when you have low energy. But now Flag gives more reliable haste and feels much better than having to use it twice

subtle kiln
little sky
#

the back tombstone is just too good looking to me 😄

stoic needle
#

its all about the blade cape

#

new flag feels absolutely glorious to press

#

vendetta > flag > rupture

little sky
#

yeah totally.

stoic needle
#

10k initial hit crit, then another 8k from the 5cp lashes critting

#

its just giga

nimble spoke
#

I wish I had just stuck with Venthyr at this point, but I'll be swapping back. The xmog is much better for Ven, imo

lofty shell
#

i just have to finish campaign for the mog 😦

subtle kiln
#

some people can’t/won’t play botd (bfa), mfd, and now sbs because they don’t want to be bothered trying to maximize the potential and feel bad when they don’t maximize it.

raven granite
#

How does venomous wounds energy regen work exactly? Do you get more energy back with more bleeds or one is enough?

spice spire
#

More energy with more bleeds

stoic needle
#

only garottes and ruptures though

#

and internal bleeding if you're talented into that

raven granite
#

CT or BS?

lofty shell
#

and you poison has to be up on the target

wary ice
stoic needle
wary ice
#

8 energy whenever rupture or garrote ticks ona target with deadly poison

lofty shell
spice spire
#

I was going to say. Those are two different rows..

raven granite
spice spire
#

Oh no

wary ice
#

hes asking if it gives energy

spice spire
#

They do not

wary ice
#

and it doesnt

stoic needle
#

ah yeah no they dont

wary ice
#

Rupture, garrote, and if talented Internal bleeding kidneys

spice spire
#

BS is often used for blindside, caught me off sbs is for Necro lord ability

wary ice
#

also good morning everyone

subtle kiln
raven granite
#

thanks

wary ice
#

Bro if you squint your eyes; Flag is just the mage leggo that gives you blood lust eery 90s

subtle kiln
#

i much rather run assa on tyrannical weeks because pugs tend to hyper focus overall dps and will still spec aoe on tyrannical.

#

fortified it’s a toss up. depends on my mood. lol

wary ice
#

Im still having a hard time swapping off outlaw for keys tbh

#

at least any push key

subtle kiln
#

i still haven’t made Zoldyck for keys. lol

wary ice
#

you running MA?

nimble spoke
#

One of the better sin rogues on IO is Venthyr and has done 20+s in Sin. They swapped to outlaw for some dungeons with lots of big pack pulls, but they run Sin otherwise

wary ice
#

or doom?

subtle kiln
#

doomer

wary ice
#

respect tbh

subtle kiln
#

just going to pop it to 235 then save for zoldyck

#

need to get celery finished still for slg

nimble spoke
#

When they are sin they run DB, if they swap outlaw they do Celerity, of course

wary ice
subtle kiln
nimble spoke
#

Oh, I was just mentioning, was just unfortunate timing that it came after what you said :)

wary ice
#

🙂

#

Even this past week scathic?

stoic needle
#

i have 5k ash and don't know what to spend it on

wary ice
#

I give up on the MA dream during spiteful

subtle kiln
#

this is assa week

raven granite
#

MA must be awesome with nelf (cries in vulpera)

stoic needle
#

i might meme craft deathly shadows, upgrade my MA, who knows

subtle kiln
#

BR bores me. KS is bae

stoic needle
#

all fax no printer

#

ks is legit the most fun button in that spec lmao

lofty shell
#

i crafted a 190 zoldyck cuz i found MA lego rlly weird for assa

nimble spoke
#

I have DB 190, Celerity 210, Finality 210. Debating on getting Zold 190 and then rushing DB for raid/M+/PvP ST, or just rushing the DB right away

stoic needle
#

ma is pretty pog for sin once you get over the idea that you're wasting the ma window with subterfuge

lofty shell
#

ye but that's pretty much the issue no?

stoic needle
#

it's not an issue

lofty shell
#

all that crits is the garrote

stoic needle
#

because your garottes, poison and autos are all critting

lofty shell
#

it just feels odd, ur prob right

stoic needle
#

it gives you pretty decent aoe "burst" after vanish too

lofty shell
#

garrotte deals pretty insane dmg at the end of a key with ma

stoic needle
#

yup

#

ma is 4s, you have time for 3 garottes + fok

#

which is 3s of garottes critting plus a near guaranteed 5cp rupture afterwards

wary ice
sweet rampart
#

we hold vendetta for pillars on slug right?

lofty shell
#

with ma i would usually do 3 garotte and a CT

nimble spoke
#

is it worth crafting Zold to 190 before rushing DB, or should I just rush DB if I like doing M+/PvP/Raid?

lofty shell
#

doomblade isnt good in m+

#

unless u REALLY want prio / boss dmg

subtle kiln
wary ice
stoic needle
#

yeah doomblade is kinda niche for m+

nimble spoke
#

Doomblade is fine in M+

#

I'm doing 15s

wary ice
#

If you get to 4th pillar do on pull, 2/4

#

if you kill before then

#

save for 1/3

sweet rampart
#

@wary ice we are right around 5:15 or so

subtle kiln
quiet tundra
#

Zold and MA works good in m+, DB does not perform as good as the other two though

stoic needle
lofty shell
#

ye oshi said it better prob with it being "niche"

raven granite
#

Do you have to stack zold and vendetta on bosses?

stoic needle
#

doomblade is 'fine' but you're definitely hurting your overall outside of certain dungeons like top and sd and pf

subtle kiln
#

i run with real AOE specs usually.

glad narwhal
#

How does MA work in M+? Surely depends on how often you can go stealth? Which this week is pretty impossible with the shades if you're chain pulling?

nimble spoke
#

I run with boomkins, fire mages, and unholy dks, lol, they are good enough for aoe in 15s

wary ice
nimble spoke
lofty shell
stoic needle
#

but it's over in ~15 minutes happy

#

i 100% wouldnt recommend doomblade for pugging. you cant trust randoms to do their jobs

quiet tundra
lofty shell
#

which affixes do we have coming up?

little sky
#

@wary ice WORKING AS INTENDED BEST XPACK EVER

wary ice
#

Inspiring necrotic

lofty shell
#

ew

stoic needle
#

Tyrannical, Inspiring, Necrotic, Prideful

#

monkas

wary ice
#

nah its good for us

raven granite
#

Easy hold my CV

lofty shell
#

necrotic monkaS

little sky
#

super fun week. i just hop to bring something like mists to 14 in preparation for the next week and start the 15s

nimble spoke
#

maybe I'll just rush DB to try to counter my lower renown in Venthyr for raid today

#

and get Zold after

stoic needle
#

just don't get hit

#

ez

nimble spoke
#

just avoid all damage, forehead :)

stoic needle
#

just evasion 3Head

glad narwhal
#

How are people switching to Outlaw? Is the covenant choice really that small an impact? If I was Venthyr, could I simply go outlaw for M+ and still perform similarly to Outlaw NL?

stoic needle
#

i think you can cloak necrotic too

stoic needle
#

people overrate covenant impact so much in this discord

#

its less than a 3% difference between them, the only major difference is the playstyle. if you are a good player you will pump regardless

subtle kiln
#

people also push certain covenants in each spec channel

nimble spoke
#

People that feel the need to swap outlaw for certain dungeons/affixes probably care more about pvp and raids as venthyr than they do about not having SBS in outlaw spec

subtle kiln
#

venthyr gives outlaw more priority dmg. sbs gives more cleave

#

pick your poison

wary ice
#

"SBS makes ur overall look better == is better" is the mentality ive found

mellow pier
#

Whatever one u pick, rng will affect u more than your choice

subtle kiln
#

if you need actual aoe get a boomie, hunter or mage

stoic needle
#

ehh it's more about your skill as a player than rng

lofty shell
#

ye ppl saying outlaw is rng spec don't rlly know it that well imo

mellow pier
#

Even with skill it comes down to a lot of times did u get this mechanic or not

nimble spoke
#

I mean, I love Necro, I just feel Venthyr is better for me. Yea, I could stay Necro and improve my aoe a bit as Sin...or I could go Venthyr and go super ST, but also eventually have Zold to do better in AoE/Executes

subtle kiln
#

gouge is the most useful extra addition outlaw has and most players probably don’t use it enough

quiet tundra
#

play w/e u think is funnier, everything works great until you need to minmax

nimble spoke
#

I don't see the point in trying to compete with outlaw as Sin in aoe. SBS won't change it, even if it improves it a bit. I'd still rather be a vampire rogue that does ST really well

stoic needle
#

also it takes literally less than a week to swap covenants and catch up renown if you play the game so its not like you're locked into your choice forever

subtle kiln
#

i’d want necro for the defensives if running high enough keys

gleaming eagle
#

the problem i have with doomblade

nimble spoke
#

Yea, the defensives are really nice for Necro, absolutely

gleaming eagle
#

is that with doomblade you wont be going Crimson tempest

mellow pier
#

I have no desire to do more than 1 key a week. Sometimes I don’t even do that lol

nimble spoke
#

I will miss them more than SBS, personally

raven granite
#

I want to Venthyr but I can't leave my jello cat behind 😦

stoic needle
#

you still use CT with doomblade in keys

gleaming eagle
#

at least with zoldyk both poison bomb and crimson tempest work

subtle kiln
#

you still CT with DB

stoic needle
#

ct increases envenom damage with DB

nimble spoke
#

DB is for the prio damage, and yea, funneling mut into kill targets

gleaming eagle
#

less envenoms with ct though

nimble spoke
#

funneling CT into kill targets with mut, rather

subtle kiln
stoic needle
#

doomblade only really works well in dungeons with small pack sizes and small pulls

subtle kiln
#

not going to ruin it.

strange python
#

Idc about any m+ above 15s so I just stay venth and swap to outlaw on non-tyrranical weeks for them because its 4head cleave

gleaming eagle
#

best case scenario is to get both

stoic needle
#

yeah its hard to argue with how much more chill outlaw is in keys sometimes lol

nimble spoke
#

yea, I will get both, eventually, but since I also only raid Heroic, right now, Zold isn't a priority for me

mellow pier
#

Honestly flag is actually good for outlaws role in keys anyways

nimble spoke
#

all those white hits being flurried into the pack

wary ice
#

Flag is honestly just the perfect Prideful Cd tbh

mellow pier
#

Yeah

#

And that’s why outlaw is theee

#

Pride dps and cc

nimble spoke
#

Yea, and you can tell your teammate that you'll use yours so they can save for next pack, etc

mellow pier
#

Mage and boomy carry rest

#

Or even spriest lol

edgy cosmos
#

should u pool energy for flag at all?

mellow pier
#

Outlaw pool?

stoic needle
#

you can get full stacks with flag super easy as law

mellow pier
#

Lol

grim meteor
#

I play outlaw so far in raid and m+. I am NF. I am thinking of switching to Assa for Raid and staying Outlaw für M+.

I am thinking for a while now, which covenant is to choose, if I want to do play both speccs. So far I think Necrolord. What do you think?

mellow pier
#

U can play any cov to play both

#

NF is fine if u don’t want to swap

grim meteor
#

Hm I play outlaw with Niya so far. Which is fine for me. But when I want to use Assa too, then Niya is ther best for both speccs, right?

edgy cosmos
#

im liking venth in outlaw for keys i simp on pride so the big bois can hold cds

strange python
#

If wanting to raid as mut spec venth is fotm, but it's not a huge difference

dull cloak
stoic needle
#

you could use korayn for outlaw and niya for sin

mellow pier
#

Korayn for m+

thick onyx
#

I do the same Holyhawk, i prioritize raid so i went venthyr, if i mainly did m+ i would of gone necro

grim meteor
#

I just want to avoid to respec my conduits everytime I switch speccs

mellow pier
#

Venthyr or NF for that

grim meteor
#

But as far as I understood, Niya is the only good choice on NF, isnt it?

mellow pier
#

No

#

Korayn is good for m+

grim meteor
#

Ah interesting

mellow pier
#

Not so much outlaw in raid

dull cloak
#

just do sin niya and ol korayn

grim meteor
#

I get so confused, the more I raid.

#

So I can use niya for assa raiding and korayn for m+ outlaw.

mellow pier
#

Yes

strange python
#

You'll never have to change conduits for assassination as venth. You only use the covenent potency conduit for single target

mellow pier
#

And that’s also true

grim meteor
#

Hm

wary ice
stoic needle
#

venthyr is nice for sin<>outlaw swap, you use double potency with CTO for outlaw and lashing scars, and lashing scars + dauntless or wasteland propriety for sin

#

cto > both dauntless and wasteland prop for outlaw

#

so you can use both nadjia and theotar for both specs without any conduit swap

grim meteor
#

So many options, which is cool 😛 I wish conduit swapping wouldwork on the fly

subtle kiln
wary ice
#

dont we all

#

The take away hawk, is that if you dont want to leave NF u have plenty of great options in cov for what you're looking to do

grim meteor
subtle kiln
#

rogues don’t have convoke. play w/e

strange python
wary ice
#

enjoy

subtle kiln
#

ok don’t play fae. kekw

grim meteor
#

I will give it a try. I need to get a 2nd dagger before anyways 😛

dull cloak
#

remember, if you leave nf you dont get to grow seeds peepohappy

grim meteor
#

haha

rotund oar
#

when is the correct time to use the venthyr ability in the opener?

old depot
#

Before vendetta

stoic needle
#

actually it's better after vendetta

fallen ginkgo
#

!guide

prisma monolithBOT
young idol
#

in the opener first thing you hit unless using subterfuge

#

yes, break stealth with it

dense blaze
#

B4 Garrote?

young idol
#

yea

shy dust
#

you open with flag

mellow pier
#

?

young idol
#

yes

shy dust
#

because if so

#

thats just wrong

mellow pier
#

U use flag before rupture

young idol
#

i thought so too

#

but it works out much better

mellow pier
#

Oh yeah?

shy dust
#

no

#

it doesnt

#

based on what

young idol
#

timing

shy dust
#

does it work out better

dense blaze
#

That seems strange af to me

shy dust
#

stop using broad terms

#

how does it work out better

young idol
#

its literal timing on everything it just flows

mellow pier
#

U open mut snd mut gar flag rupture

shy dust
#

^

mellow pier
#

Then use flag on cd unless u won’t lose a cast lining them up

#

Or it’s sludgefist

shy dust
#

opening with flag would net you less time on the haste buff for vendetta and less stacks of it

dense blaze
#

I always thought you garrote first I'm just lost now xS

shy dust
#

you only garrote first with subterfuge

mellow pier
#

I’m assuming ur playing MA

shy dust
#

the opener nurux listed is correct with MA

#

MA the talent*

dense blaze
#

I use subterfuge cause m+

short thicket
#

Hey guys, Anyone else using Necro for pvp? switched from NF to Venthyr to Necro yesterday.

mellow pier
#

Idk I don’t do m+

shy dust
mellow pier
#

My score hasn’t moved since like week 3 😦

shy dust
#

doing keys is a pain

#

especially given that outlaw has been the meta spec for like 2-3 years

mellow pier
#

Yeah

dense blaze
#

I just dont enjoy outlaw

mellow pier
#

I always enjoyed combat I have really never enjoyed outlaw

dense blaze
#

My rogue is my 3rd character so I'm not trying to min max do high keys or whatever

mellow pier
#

In 3+ years

raven hawk
#

If you want to play assa play assa. It’s a different playstyle but it’s fine for M+. Did 18s as assa this week cause I was bored

dense blaze
#

Yea thats what I'm doing. I know outlaw is better for m+ but I just don't care to play a spec I don't like for a bit more dps. I'm still trying to learn aoe rotation for assa though as it's hard for me to grasp in an actual key

stoic needle
#

its fok/mut tab target rupture+garotte

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and maintain CT

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it seems daunting at first but it gets easy with practice

lofty shell
#

theres more to it tho

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i mean priority wise

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if i don't CT on time my aoe sux in m+ 😦

dawn ivy
#

well yeah thats where the practice comes from

lofty shell
#

thats also an issue i have same as janae

shy dust
#

assassination seeming daunting

honest lake
#

If u already have KSM u can play wtv u like.

dense blaze
#

I more mean what to do at how many targets and trying to figure out if rupture is worth.

My rogues only 200 ilvl so low keys things just fuckin die

lofty shell
#

ye its hard in low keys where trash just melts and you need bleeds to give you energy

stoic needle
mellow pier
#

???

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How lmao

stoic needle
shy dust
#

Sin aoe is press FOK or mut

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Bleed

stoic needle
#

there is nothing hard about pressing all of your cooldowns on cd

lofty shell
#

outlaw aoe = outlaw ST + 1 button

shy dust
#

Then maintain ct

dense blaze
#

Doesn't help when I run with 220 firemage and ret pally half the time. They just die lol

shy dust
#

Outlaw is still harder

mellow pier
#

How about double the apm

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Lmao

stoic needle
#

no its not

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its faster but its easier

mellow pier
#

???

lofty shell
#

opinions will differ i gues

mellow pier
#

Outlaw requires so much more to maintain

strange python
#

For low keys might as well keep poison bomb and focus mostly single target aside from opening with 3 garrotes

onyx wind
#

Some people think its hard to press buttons fast

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some people think its hard not to

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:)

mellow pier
#

Assassin is the most braindead spec in the game

shy dust
#

Yeah

mellow pier
#

In any content

shy dust
#

Sin is considered

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The sleeper spec for a reason

dense blaze
#

May be the play tbh lundrai

stoic needle
#

just because outlaw is fast doesn't make it hard

stoic needle
dawn ivy
#

outlaw is the easiest spec of the three

shy dust
#

Have you played sin on single target

mellow pier
#

lmao

stoic needle
#

we're talking about aoe rae

dawn ivy
#

have you played outlaw in literally any situation ever

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it the same no matter what

shy dust
#

Yeah I think I have

mellow pier
#

In aoe it’s easy too... u think mut on multiple targets and ct is hard?

shy dust
#

And outlaw has much more minute details

dawn ivy
#

it really doesnt

shy dust
#

Than sin has

onyx wind
#

who cares

strange python
#

Outlaw just hurts my hand after a few hours of play. Too spammy

final star
#

This some dumb ass opinion piece conversation

onyx wind
#

ur literally trying to convince other people to change their mind

final star
onyx wind
#

on something completely subjective

stoic needle
#

multidotting and tracking dots durations and knowing when to mut or fok and maximizing your damage as sin is way more complex than outlaw

onyx wind
#

good one man

shy dust
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I mean

dawn ivy
#

its a silly comparison regardless, both specs are simple

onyx wind
#

ur NOT wasting ur time at all

shy dust
#

If we are talking pure st

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There is 0 way

stoic needle
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we aren't talking pure st

shy dust
#

To argue sin is harder than outlaw

stoic needle
#

again

shy dust
#

I said if we are

stoic needle
#

this is about aoe

shy dust
#

It’s not even an opinion

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Sin IS considered one of the easiest specs in the game

frail fossil
#

osho with another m+ opinion after run doomblade in mist weirdchamp

stoic needle
frail fossil
#

in the fact u said doomblade is good for mist for prio damage

stoic needle
mellow pier
#

@shy dust it’s prob useless if these guys think assassin is hard they aren’t playing outlaw correctly

shy dust
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Yeah outlaw has much more minute details

stoic needle
#

nobody said assassination was hard

dawn ivy
#

^

shy dust
#

Playing sin the hardest thing is staying awake

stoic needle
#

i just said that assassination aoe rotation is harder than outlaw

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so stop bringing up single target

shy dust
#

My guy

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Outlaw st

mellow pier
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Pressing mut and ct is hard??

shy dust
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Is more complex

dense blaze
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I'm rogue noob, I said I have issues knowing what to do in aoe because shit just dies and my dots aren't worth it

shy dust
#

Then sin aoe

frail fossil
shy dust
#

Sin does have to ramp

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When you’re still applying bleeds

mellow pier
#

That’s why it’s preferred to play outlaw

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Doesn’t make it hard because shit dies before your ramp

onyx wind
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Its preferred to play outlaw cause it does more damage

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If sin did more damage u would play it in high keys

dense blaze
#

I'm the only person that said anything regarding it being hard I think but I am just trying g to learn it still :)

mellow pier
#

Sin did more damage in nyalotha but pple still played outlaw

lofty shell
mellow pier
#

It’s more about cc and shit

peak sun
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

lofty shell
#

ppl always gonna flame whatevery they don't / can't play

onyx wind
#

raid performance isnt the same as m+ performance

stoic needle
#

mechanically sin aoe is more complex than outlaw in aoe, you have to target swap constantly and manage more dot timers and spin more plates. outlaw aoe is literally just making sure that you keep your cooldowns on cooldown and that you don't overcap cp

mellow pier
#

In m+

frail fossil
mellow pier
#

It did more

red atlas
#

Are servers back?

mellow pier
#

Yes

strange python
#

I had a lot of fun with the mut bleed build in 8.3

nimble spoke
#

@stoic needle, sorry if it's a lot of trouble, but are you able to make an example that shows what you were talking about with having conduits for both nadja and theotar for sin and outlaw without needing to change them around?

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I'm more of a visual person XD

frail fossil
#

weirdchamp do u think people bringed outlaw over assa cuz of gouge

mellow pier
#

And bte

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U had a stun for everything

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Could lock mobs

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Etc

celest ruin
#

when you have full expedient and press exsang pepechortle

mellow pier
#

Lol

honest lake
#

Outlaw is easy af , I play outlaw and sin, but the aoe of SIn has a lot of decision making compare with outlaw where do you don´t change your priorities.

strange python
#

Honestly I do find myself looking for gouge in m+ as an extra interrupt and get sad

lofty shell
#

gouge should be baseline tbh

gusty mirage
mellow pier
#

Unless it was junk :p

stoic needle
nimble spoke
#

you are awesome, thank you so much

lofty shell
#

lol i also have that setup with CTO / rushed depending on spec xD

stoic needle
#

you just use dauntless duelist or wasteland propriety when sin

quiet tundra
nimble spoke
#

it only costs the swap gems if you change a conduit, not change which path you're using, right?

stoic needle
#

yep

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man if sin had gouge

dense blaze
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Doing lower keys (like 15max) would zoldycks or doomblade be more useful? I can either upgrade my doomblade to rank 3 or make rank 2 zoldycks today so peepohappy

stoic needle
#

unf

mellow pier
#

@dense blaze do u raid?

stoic needle
#

i would still make zoldyck

#

doomblade is only good in specific dungeons

dense blaze
bleak sun
#

Only using doom blade for top

mellow pier
#

Zold then

dense blaze
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Maybe Alt heroics

peak sun
#

Guys, vers = cri or crit is better? !stats says one thing and pin says another.

dense blaze
#

Alright. I've heard a lot of differing opinions- friend telling me doomblade for sure but he's newer to rogue too so ye

plain thistle
#

especially with things like venthyr giving us a lot of haste

lofty shell
#

but i think having options > having some extra stats on 1 lego

cursive garnet
#

guys i want a legendary for both m+ and raid cause i cant afford 2 legos atm do u think zoldyck is best or doomblade?

wary ice
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you dont need to be at the forge of bonds

nimble spoke
#

if you don't mind being ST specific, DB doesn't seem to be a bad choice. If you are pushing mythic CN and want the execute/better aoe, zold seems better

#

from what I've gathered here, anyway, feel free to correct me

stoic needle
#

you want zoldyck

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you're gimping yourself by going doomblade first for m+

nimble spoke
#

so you feel we should have doomblade 190 and max zold first, Oshosi?

cursive garnet
#

i feel like zoldyck is better