assassination

[limber lion]

Just stats

[shy dust]

It could create very busted things

Almost nothing in the game anymore effects trinkets

[jagged bobcat]

not rogue abilities tho

[sand aurora]

does it matter if i put doomblade leggo on shoulders or hands?

[jagged bobcat]

u wanna put it on hands if u can get Mythic Shoulders off stone legion

[sand aurora]

i got 226 hands already but 207 shoulder

maybe go shoulder then?

[subtle tundra]

wow tooltips are notoriously bad

[jagged bobcat]

Both are fine, but the optimal build is with the mythic Shoulders off stone legion, if ur not going for that then it doesnt really matter

[glass timber]

im sure you get loads of questions like this

but i really want to play rogue and raid mythic, but also want to play outlaw in M+

is there a cov which is kinda a nice middle ground?

or is it best to just min-max one

[shy dust]

Middle ground

Is necro

[glass timber]

nice and easy response 😄 thanks Raw

Rae

[shy dust]

It’s best for outlaw in m+

And is 2nd best covenant for sin in st

It’s 2% behind

[oak trout]

if my only plan is to raid i guess i should craft Dashing Scoundrel and Doomblade leggos?

[glass timber]

yeah that's exactly what i'm after

thanks Rae, appreicate it 🙂

[shy dust]

Doomblade and zoldyck

Np

I can’t see a reason why you’d craft dashing currently

[oak trout]

well the guide says it

[subtle tundra]

play high apm assa

"high"

[oak trout]

i'm not even planning on touching m+ so yeah

[indigo mulch]

"high".

Super "high".

[sand aurora]

how much is it to craft a level 3 leggo?

[indigo mulch]

3000 something

I honestly don't know what to farm at this point 😐

I only have 1250 valor left

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vEobbGKikA5Rxgr5hjkB4N What should i farm next? :c

[shy dust]

Better shoulders/ Iqd

[light rampart]

forgive me for the potential stupid question, but why does my sim tell me I open with Mutilate with MA? and not ambush?

[shy dust]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[indigo mulch]

I mean pants should prob be the biggest upgrade for me i guess

I can get HC version of SLG prob

[light rampart]

dang

thanks

[shy dust]

Then do that ig

[indigo mulch]

Back to farming spires i guess ;|

[light rampart]

Why would you use it with sepsis then, wouldnt it be better to just mut then for that very reason?

[limber lion]

Am I the only one who has barely done any valor farming whatsoever

[shy dust]

Depends on if you need gear from it

Nothing from valor is an upgrade for me

[indigo mulch]

lol i've prob capped atleast twice by now 😦

[subtle tundra]

im almost capped on valor from farming pf/pushing

[shy dust]

So I have no need to farm it

[indigo mulch]

I did 28 runs in mist for the dagger.

._."

[limber lion]

Yes, but it's written like that just to simplify things probably. The same reasoning stands

[light rampart]

hm

alright

[limber lion]

Koji found value out of using Ambush from Sepsis, Whispyr didn't

So it's a bit eh

[shy dust]

220 phial is nuts though

Almost beats out a 226 chain

[strange python]

How bad is venthry outlaw

[subtle tundra]

not very bad

im playing it and im doing decent

[strange python]

i tried playing sin in M+ and it just didnt feel good

Amazing in raids

[light rampart]

its so weird

[strange python]

So i think ill stick to Outlaw for M+

[light rampart]

If sepsis would make ambush better, it owuld be better from strealth too -__-

[sand aurora]

doomblade bis right?

[subtle tundra]

well you dont have MA with sepsis ambush

[shy dust]

For st yes

[limber lion]

There's a few things that could differ like no MA, already having all bleeds/snd up etc.

But it's very marginal

[light rampart]

fair enough

THanks tho

[misty falcon]

!bis

[limber lion]

You can use droptimizer and top gear in raidbots to find the best upgrades for you :)

[misty falcon]

yeah I was curious about some other thing

nvm then

[sour thunder]

Shiv has dispel effect? Can even dispel enrage?

[stoic needle]

When you have mind numbing poison applied it soothes

[hollow escarp]

most tanks want crippling though

and if you play with boomie or hunter, you don't really dispell anyway

[sour thunder]

Okay thanks

[stoic trail]

Hey guys is there a basic premise for aoe openers? Im havin trouble in mythic +

[limber lion]

-Keep garrote on CD
-Apply as many ruptures as you can to targets that live the duration
-Keep CT up on all enemies at all times - but do NOT spam it.
-Use vanish/vendetta/shiv as much as possible, holding them for 4 minutes because you're saving them for a boss fight is not worth it
-Generate with FoK on 4+ targets, and with Muti on 3+ targets
-Fill with Envenom

Opener with subterfuge and MFD would be gar - gar - gar - rup - mfd - ct and then you'd keep applying ruptures

Opener with subterfuge and vigor would be gar - gar - gar - gar - ct and then you apply ruptures

[subtle tundra]

i've found that you can get full duration snd + 5 cp before key starts and basically never cast snd in the dungeon as long as you pull continuously and dont die

makes first pull smoother

[limber lion]

Yeah, and if SnD does fall of at some point, try to save some CP's from a previous pack so you can SnD before the next one.

[sour thunder]

So Icy Veins rotation priority is correct? If shiv does concentrated non lethal poison, why is it in our top 5 priority? Does not it do low damage?

[limber lion]

So instead of slamming that last 4cp envenom on the target, just save the combo points and use them on stealth to proc SnD instead.

[stoic trail]

I see i see. smoother with MFD or vigor?

[limber lion]

It increases all of our nature damage by 20%. That includes poisons which you apply constantly. It can be used as a soothe, but it's a huge increase in damage that it's often just used on CD even in M+.

Same goes for Envenom. Your poison proc chance increases which in turn also makes it so you proc poisons on multiple targets more often = do more aoe damage

[stoic trail]

How bout on 3 enemies with vigor? Can I just pop CT at 3 combo points? Or should it be 4-5?

[limber lion]

Smoother with Vigor definitely, but MfD is a good choice and often pulls ahead.

[limber lion]

I would probably Shiv before the CT then

Or Muti

[hollow escarp]

did anybody try this with phantom fire?

[sour thunder]

Thank you

[stoic trail]

I see. And on 4 targets + its possible to do garrote on 4 targets before subterfuge effect runs out? Sry i didnt know this was possible only tried 3 so far ✌️😭

[limber lion]

No, you only get the subterfuge effect on the first 3, but you can still apply a 4th one before it goes on cooldown because the first 3 don't put it on cooldown because of Subt.

So you get 3 subterfuge ones and one normal garrote.

[stoic trail]

Understood!!! I will try this out. 🙂 this rotation smoother than the yt vids i saw for sure lol

[undone eagle]

Do I do this right in m+ (4-5targets)??:

I open in stealth to garrote all of them + CT + and then Rupture 3 of them from fan of knives combo build.

When every target has bleed I just spam mutilate + envenom + shiv on prio target instead of spamming fan of knives

I have read the guides but what I ask for is how do i maintain the targets

[limber lion]

Good luck :p

[undone eagle]

I know i rebleed them when the bleed is running out, its just if i should build combo points with FoK or Mutilate on prio

[hollow escarp]

do you play doomblade in M+?

[undone eagle]

MA mate

[limber lion]

Almost, but you would want to use FoK on 4+ targets. If there is a really big focus-target, then you would use Muti on it of course.

[hollow escarp]

then fok at 5 targets

[undone eagle]

So basically i rarelt use mutilate + shiv if thats the case??

Rarely*

If there is no prio focus

[limber lion]

Like in Spires there are the Forsworn Commander's (or whatever they are called) which reduce the damage done to surrounding mobs by 75% or something, you would want to Muti that of curse

[limber lion]

No, you'd still want to slam Shiv

But on 4-5 targets, yes, you would just use FoK to generate

And then slam Envenom's on the bigger hp targets

But usually on 4-5 targets I don't have any time to do many Envenom's honestly

Applying garrotes/ruptures takes so much time.

[undone eagle]

Oh so envenom is the finisher instead of CT (if they alrdy are bleeding from it)

[limber lion]

Only toward the end when they're close to dying

[hollow escarp]

shiv empowers all nature damage, not just envenom 😉

[limber lion]

Yes, you want to have CT up at all times, but not spam it.

[undone eagle]

True!

[hollow escarp]

so even if you get only 1-2 envenoms, it's still good for poisons

[limber lion]

You can spam CT on really big packs, but those are very rare

[undone eagle]

So basically my job is to keep the track of all my bleeds and rebleed them, after that envenom starts etc

[limber lion]

The Ardenweald section in De Other Side is a place where you'd want to spam CT instead of Env

[undone eagle]

And so goes the rotation

[limber lion]

Yeah pretty much

[undone eagle]

Alright I got it mate

Cheers 🙂

And Flag? Do you open with it at full combo point?

[limber lion]

The majority of your damage comes from your garrotes/ruptures, but they also function as the source of your energy regen. Even if they did 0 damage, you'd want to have 4-5 bleeds up at all times so you don't starve for energy

[undone eagle]

I usually use it before i spend my 5 dots

[limber lion]

Yeah tbh with Flag you can just use it after the initial garrotes/rupture/ct

So gar gar gar rup mfd flag ct

Or gar gar gar gar rup fok flag ct

[undone eagle]

Aight cheers

[limber lion]

Or something of the sort.

[undone eagle]

A little sidequestion there

[limber lion]

Not in the very opening, but not too late either so you get the full 24s benefit from it

[undone eagle]

When they die and 3 targets remain, still FoK or mutilate instead?

[limber lion]

Then you'd switch to Mutilate

[undone eagle]

Okey thanks then i know

👌🏻👍🏼 appreciate it

[limber lion]

Good luck mate :p

[undone eagle]

Thanks, i love the fact when u rupture many of them and ur energy just flows fast cuz they die, but when i fail its taking years for energy regen 🤣

[limber lion]

Yep, it feels really good when you have a lot of bleeds up and you can just spam buttons and not wait for energy to regen

[wispy surge]

Hey guys, icy veins says the best overall leggo is zoldyck but on blood mallet is looks like dashing scoundrel is better across aoe and st and im confused what to craft first :X

[prime narwhal]

depends on what you're doing. Zoldyck for dungeons, dashing scoundrel for raids. personally I went with dashing scoundrel b/c it's only slightly behind single target but way better than scoundrel on AoE

Doomblade for single target****

[thin inlet]

ok don’t have any assa legendary can make one 210

do I go for zoldyck

or doomblade

I’ll probably do both raid mythic progression and m+

[pearl canyon]

insignia or badge for m+? both 220

[limber lion]

Zoldyck is the best legendary for M+ and execute scenarios (Mythic Sire in particular). Doomblade is the best ST legendary in the game.

I personally use Zoldyck in M+ and Doomblade in raids.

[limber lion]

This one first

[limber lion]

You should probably sim them, but I have my bet on Insignia

[thin inlet]

should I make

doomblade 235 before starting with the zoldyck in your mind

[limber lion]

Absolutely

[midnight thistle]

do i always finish on 4 unless it lands on 5 combo points?

[limber lion]

The Zoldyck is very niche and the dps gain you get from it on AoE and M+ situations is a lot less than you would get in raids from upgrading Doomblade

[limber lion]

Yes

If you're using Vigor that is. With DS you'd finish at 5/6

[midnight thistle]

cheers

[thin inlet]

aight cheers

[limber lion]

[midnight thistle]

any good weak auras for keeping an eye on rupture garote?

[limber lion]

There's quite a few packs that cover all the rogue abilities. You can either use a pack or find seperate weak auras for those. I personally use Afenar's pack here

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[cloud moat]

How's Assa for arena?

[limber lion]

Great, especially in 3's. Doesn't have as much control as Sub, which is desired in 2's. The boys in #pvp know more.

[sour thunder]

Energy generation while leveling seems insanely lucking, I cant even use envenom after applying garrote and rupture and keeping Snd up

Is it normal and when does it get better?

[pale plank]

I am running vigor while leveling and honestly it’s not bad

[limber lion]

Yeah as long as you use Vigor, you shouldn't have many issues with energy regen honestly.

It is a bit of a slow spec for sure, but you should be able to fit plenty of Envenom's in on ST before having to reapply ruptures/garrotes

[pale plank]

And even if u had, pretty sure at max level you gonna get bunch of energy regen since haste is one of their main stats to go for

Well I am only lvl54 but from wow head guides these are the go to stats

[sour thunder]

I will always sim my stats as people say but I wonder does it mean assas scaling is great?

[subtle tundra]

no

[limber lion]

Don't get fooled by scaling. There is no such thing, at least to the extent of previous expansions.

[onyx wind]

Stat prio depends on so many things

What legendary ur using, what covenant you are

But Crit/Haste seem to be the ones u want as much as possible of

[wispy surge]

Ok so only doomblades and zoldyck and no dashing scroundrel?

[limber lion]

Exactly. Doomblade is the go-to ST legendary, not Dashing Scoundrel.

[wispy surge]

Yeah I know i just thought maybe dashing would work as a first leggo in kind of a "jack of all trades" way

But ill craft zoldyck then

[limber lion]

No, Dashing Scoundrel is really bad on AoE. Energy is abundant in AoE, so DS looses a lot of value there.

MA is the jack of all trades legendary

It works for all content and for all specs

It's not the best for anything, but usually the 2nd or 3rd choice for most content.

[wispy surge]

Ok thanks for clarifying it, wowhead icy veins and bloomallet all said different things

[limber lion]

Yeah, Ravenholdt is the most accurate source of information for rogues. Always come here in case you're unsure of something

The pins usually have the most reliable and up to date information.

The guides might not get updated as often.

[next quarry]

What's the stat prio for assa?

[placid dawn]

just sim your character

usually haste is top though

[next quarry]

Ugh , not gonna be easy to off spec as sub main ....

Energy starved 24/7 does not seem fun

[onyx wind]

Doomblade is better than dashing on single target, zoldyck is better in m+. Dashing is better than doomblade in m+ and better than zoldyck in st

[keen tree]

Isn't MA close to Zoldyck in m+?

[onyx wind]

Zoldyck is just really good for many raid and progress scenarios, and doomblade is good aswell

So by crafting an "overall" legendary, youre delaying both of those options

Its pretty much up to you

[keen tree]

If MA is similar to Zoldyck in M+ surely that is the better legendary to recommend as it is versatile across specs? That's a question not a statement.

[onyx wind]

Sure, if youre multispeccing in m+ then i would recommend MA

but idk why u wouldnt just be playing only outlaw at that point

[keen tree]

Even if you are single speccing - why make zoldyck over MA? Is it better for Sin?

[onyx wind]

MA sims similarly to zoldyck, but zoldyck has the niche of being execute

Which means that if ur mage bursts the pack to 30% in 3 seconds, then you will have a very high execute uptime

And i dont think the sims account for scenarios such as that

[keen tree]

Makes sense. Thanks.

[wispy surge]

btw how does assasination perform in m+? i never see any

[frigid kestrel]

i think we perform decently, ive been averaging about 6k - 6.7k a run. But im not doing anything high either (been teetering around 16's - 17's)

this week ive been extremely lower, either im retarted or this Grievous/Spiteful and my chain pulling main tank hinders my restealths so much my dps goes bye bye

[limber lion]

It's really good, but not Outlaw-level good.

On dense dungeons you can easily average 7k+ dps, on less dense it's around 6-6.5k

This week is horrible for Assa because we're so reliant on going stealth between packs and spiteful makes it quite difficult

[obtuse ocean]

question regarding doomblade, i've had terrible luck with SLG shoulders (and already have celerity there from outlaw), and have 226 gloves... is it still best to make leggo on hand slot and use a lower ilvl shoulders while i wait for SLG ones?

[onyx wind]

In the long run, yes its better

Its totally up to you

[limber lion]

Be patient and aim for the end game.

[obtuse ocean]

ye thought so, damn i'll have to be patient then haha, already fucked up my celerity slot pick so want to make sure i do the right one for sin

[onyx wind]

Also, do you mean mythic SLG shoulders?

[obtuse ocean]

nah heroic unfortunately

[onyx wind]

Because if ur doing heroic only, then u can craft it wherever

[limber lion]

I was impatient and got myself 235 Zoldyck boots and now I regret them

I had 200 ilvl pants so I just got Zoldyck boots

[onyx wind]

I would for sure craft them on shoulders then, Llaina

[limber lion]

I got BiS 226 pants a month later

[obtuse ocean]

im not in mythic prog sadly

[obtuse ocean]

ah you think?

[limber lion]

Then it doesn't matter

Just craft whichever is better for you now.

[onyx wind]

Yea, since ur not getting 233 shoulders

[limber lion]

Or wait until reset just in case you get 226 shoulders/gloves from the vault

[onyx wind]

They already have 226 gloves

[obtuse ocean]

as much as i would love to get the mythic ones haha

[limber lion]

Oh if you have 226 gloves, then definitely get shoulders.

No question about it.

[obtuse ocean]

ye have 226 crit haste gloves

[onyx wind]

Damn, wish it was me...

[obtuse ocean]

legends thanks guys ❤️

[onyx wind]

all u

[obtuse ocean]

happy sin is back on the table tbh, fave spec by far

[onyx wind]

Been enjoying it a lot in m+ lately, havent tried it on many mythic bosses yet

Stuck on sludge, but hes dying tonight

And then we will probably reclear after

[obtuse ocean]

ooh best of luck!

[onyx wind]

Time to learn how to play assa

Sucks i wont have the edge that people who progressed as assa does

[obtuse ocean]

haha true, gotta dust off the memory banks for sure

[onyx wind]

I only know how to play fights as sub...

[obtuse ocean]

i started expac as sub, then switched to law when i was having no wep luck

[primal zinc]

hello ssins

[obtuse ocean]

still have shitty daggers, but at least with VP i can get something decent

[onyx wind]

VP weapons are so expensive tho

Glad i got some from vault

Upgraded a crit/haste ring so far

[obtuse ocean]

i know, it sucks, i think when i got 2 223 law weps from the vault it decided my allotment of weps was up lmao

haven't seen a wep in so long now F

[onyx wind]

Yea, weapons are a bit too strong it feels

Its nice that u have big upgrades in the form of weapons

But the amount of damage they give for how hard they are to get

Is a bit skewed imo

[obtuse ocean]

yea, too few dagger sources too

way more swords, maces, and axes to pick from

[onyx wind]

Yesterday was the first time ive seen a dagger drop from m+

And ive yet to get one from raid

[frigid kestrel]

Did you stop doing Torghast runs? You only ever needed finality for sub ye? You should have had more then enough ash to get R4 Doom and/or Zold.

[onyx wind]

Not that i need those, but still

[obtuse ocean]

im still rocking one from M0 😦

[onyx wind]

I crafted 235 finality+akaari's

and 190 MA for m+

Before i started progressing on assa leggos

[frigid kestrel]

Ahhh

Makes sense

[onyx wind]

Please let us disenchant legendaries...

[frigid kestrel]

Ye I wasted a shit ton of ash

[onyx wind]

Or like, update the stats with new missives and a bit of soul ash

Or change the item slot

[obtuse ocean]

^

[onyx wind]

Sucks, especially for multispec legendaries

That u cant swap stats

[frigid kestrel]

R4 Finality
R2 MA
R2 Celerity (that I havnt used once)
R4 Akaari
R3 Doom
R3 Zold

[onyx wind]

Gonna get r4 doom next week

[frigid kestrel]

If it wasn’t for the NF mission table I’d be way behind

[onyx wind]

Then im up to date

Yea, clutched out a mission yesterday for ash

Which means im getting 235 next week

[frigid kestrel]

Found a Addon that auto simulates if your gonna win or not before you send your peeps out

Makes my Venth table easier. NF all you have to do was send out Dream and some troops and you auto won.

[onyx wind]

Yea, been using that

Soul ash mission had random abilities, so my success rate was like 60%

[primal zinc]

depens on the lvl diff tho

if all troops are 48 and mission is 46 then you are like 100% win

[frigid kestrel]

Ye that’s true

[tender folio]

Someone should add in those pins also stat prio for myth+

Crit > Mastery => Versa

[onyx wind]

Stat prio is just very subjective

Sadly very hard to sim for m+

[tender folio]

For myth+ is really simple

haste does not have any value there

And you'll be aiming for high crit cus of the combo gen

[onyx wind]

Now youre assuming that every pack has enough mobs to make haste obsolete

Which is not the case at all

[tender folio]

It is since crit will make up for it

[onyx wind]

I agree, crit is very good in m+

[tender folio]

And pulling anything less then 3 mobs is waste of time

[onyx wind]

Yet unavoidable in many dungeons

[tender folio]

Also you can pop your bursts regarding ST on packs with 2 adds which are rare

[burnt star]

Haste value isnt only regen though

[onyx wind]

I agree with your logic, and in those situations haste is probably not very valuable

But there are many different scenarios in m+

[frigid kestrel]

Legit almost any stat prio in M+ will do just fine.

[tender folio]

Plus you have Alacrity and SnD to makeup for it

[burnt star]

Like saying it has 0 value is totaly wrong

[tender folio]

Drblank we aint getting into atoms here

[quasi ledge]

You still have single target in M+

[tender folio]

Just talking about stat prio

[onyx wind]

In a dungeon like halls, mists, or maybe DoS, haste is probably less valuable

than dungeons such as ToP and SoA

[burnt star]

U can totaly do a stat weight. 30 sec no lust no pot. 5 add and see for yourself

[onyx wind]

Which is why there is no overall m+ stat weight

It depends on too much

You should just make sure to understand where each stat shines, and what scenarios different talents/legendaries are better

That way you can tailor your build for different dungeons

[burnt star]

Not to be blunt. But when u reach point where stat matther to this degree. U should probly be playing outlaw

[digital orchid]

Guys got question ,if u play deep stratagen u always want play on 6 cb and after use envenom,or use envenom on 5 cb is oke? Coz if i have 5 and use mutilate u obercapped cb.

[limber lion]

5 or 6 cp is fine

[onyx wind]

Sure, but this is something that generally applies to wow

Not just assassination

[tender folio]

That's the case if you have time and commitment to gather all that stuff

Going that deep for each dung regarding specific items is a bit dull for me

[onyx wind]

I completely understand

Its not for everyone, which is why there are general guidelines

But its kinda misleading making general guidelines for something so diverse

[digital orchid]

@limber lion okey i prefer vigor coz on deep i think i jave a lot of time if i use envenom on 5 so vigor in this case is better buf on logs most people play deep 😏

[tender folio]

I was just saying it should be there noted since some ppl are just running that kind of content so they can inform themselves

[onyx wind]

For sure, its just very hard to make an overall stat prio

Even for stuff like raiding

[tender folio]

Since stacking haste/vers overall for assa and then hitting myth+ wont have the correct feeling nor the dmg

[onyx wind]

For example, taking ur last message into consideration

[limber lion]

People who play Venthyr usually sim higher with Deeper Stratagem. If you play something else, just play Vigor.

[onyx wind]

Playing venthyr+doomblade, crit/haste is ur best stat, not haste/vers

Yet you cant make 10 different stat prios for different scenarios

[tender folio]

Exeo we had it before it can be there again

[digital orchid]

@limber lion im venthyr so oke if i play deep 5 cb is still okey and ita better use envenom on 5 insted of overcapping cp right

[tender folio]

And you can note next to it ( it depends on a dung or something like that if you want )

[quasi ledge]

Pins suggest Haste > Crit anyway, which is 100% fine for both raiding and M+, seeing as you can't control secondaries that much unless you're farming gear, and at that point you know what you're doing

[onyx wind]

I think there is a very large amount of people who enjoy gearing and stuff

[ornate raptor]

I enjoy vigor over DS but thats my opinion.

[onyx wind]

But dont enjoy theorycrafting and simming

[burnt star]

When u get a new piece in vault. U should be simming dungeonslice and s.t.

Tbh

No stat prio will ever make me choose differently

[limber lion]

Yes, envenom on 5-6 cp. Do not use muti on 5.

[digital orchid]

@limber lion ty

[onyx wind]

I hate items/talents being "useless", so i always try to find a specific scenario where they are useful

So for me, simming ST and dungeonslice wouldnt be enough

And i in no way mean this in a condescending way

But there are so many different ways of playing wow

And enjoying the game

[bitter crescent]

!bis

[burnt star]

I mean u do u

[onyx wind]

Exactly my point

[burnt star]

But still the point remains that stat prio isnt as linear as we think

[hallow summit]

!opener

[onyx wind]

Stat prio =/= stat weight

But yes i totally agree

[burnt star]

Each piece at said moment. Stat weight 》 stat prio though

[onyx wind]

I would argue that stuff like legendaries are an exception

[burnt star]

Like when u open vault. That piece stat weight are whats important

Ok for leggo yes

[winter vapor]

for m+ with crimson tempest specced, is it ever worth casting in ST fights?

[onyx wind]

Yes, outside of shiv window

[winter vapor]

ta

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[outer furnace]

hi i am thinking too main a melee class but with rogue spec is the best too level as also raiding

[rustic whale]

be warned rogues are hard spot to get raids by some guilds

[onyx wind]

I think they all suck to level as, but outlaw sucks less

Raiding its either assa/outlaw

[rustic whale]

i suggest you to play Unholy DK as melee

[languid frigate]

Has anyone found a Macro or Elvui action paging script, that changes Mutilate to Ambush on a blindside proc?

[final kettle]

if i switch to venthyr, which soulbind is for raid?

[frigid kestrel]

Nadjia

[final kettle]

thx

[frigid kestrel]

Lashing Dauntless

[burnt star]

Do it its fun and the mog iS bae

[willow isle]

What are you toughts on master poisoner+zoldyck+ lethal poisons conduit? Works for me well but I have low ilvl and I am doing lower keys for now.

[burnt star]

(And ya nadjia/dauntless)

[burnt star]

Elaborate planning is kinda too good to pass though

[rustic whale]

no CT is the 1st damage everytime you run a M+. And EP making it %10 harder. Also MP is not OP as it seems. Always stick to Zoldyck + EP + CT and Subterfuge on running M+

for conduit yeah Lethal Poisons are good for overall. But you can swap it with Poisoned Katar if you have higher ilvl one

[willow isle]

What does poisoned katar do? I have fairly fresh rogue, so I don't have good conduits yet.

[rustic whale]

%5crit and %11 dmg increase of Fan of Knives

since FoK is our 3 or 4th highest dmg on overall in a M+

[willow isle]

Oh, I see it now. I have one but with too low ilvl

[rustic whale]

i also suggest you to run Marked for Dead in the M+

[naive vapor]

a

[rustic whale]

you ll see your dps gain

[willow isle]

145 only

My top dmg overall is deadly posion, garrote and attack :D

[rustic whale]

what is your ilvl and what keys you are running?

[turbid harbor]

Garrote is often my highest dmg done, depends on the dungeon

CT will always be higher in dungeons like DoS

[willow isle]

185. And I am farming phial right now but I did some 5-8 max

[rustic whale]

well at 13-15+ usually groups stacking adds

which opens 8 targets and burst damage in come in handy

[turbid harbor]

These are 20s and 15 sell runs

[rustic whale]

and yes Garrote can be 1st or 2nd on your total dmg depending on run

each group is making M+ in different way ngl

[crude wedge]

Hey y'all, I see a lot of people mentioning to go Doomblade first as a legendary. But when I look at the RH guide I see Dashing Scoundrel mentioned first. I also see on herodamage that Doomblade is only slightly ahead of Dashing in ST and that Dashing pulls ahead in both raid boss + adds and dungeonslice. But then when I look at the pins (Whispyr 13.03) I see that Doomblade pulls ahead in both ST and dungeonslice (no soulbinds). To be fair, I'm kinda confused atm at which one to go for 😅

[outer furnace]

when i looked at warcraftlogs herioc mode it say assa rogue is on 3 place did they get nerfed or buffed in 9.0.5 ?

[turbid harbor]

Assa got large buffs in the patch, it wasn’t worth playing before and now it very much is

[rustic whale]

Doomblade best ST without doubt. Dashing however one of my fav from Legion. But funny thing is that lego came with hidden nerf. It was providing %35 crit chance after envenom now it s only %15

[outer furnace]

is it any guide i can follow for assa for talent and rotation from 1-60 or 10-60 ?

[rustic whale]

i m sure more criticism will come once we are able to equip 2nd lego

between Dashing vs Zoldyck

[quasi ledge]

Not really a hidden nerf. It was always a nerfed version of the Legion set bonus

[rustic whale]

i m pretty sure in Legion it was providing %35 crit chance

[turbid harbor]

It started at 60% in legion

[rustic whale]

%15 is just lame

and energy reg from crit poisons were 3 energy not 1

i m talking about 7.3.5 last build

[quasi ledge]

Yes, but that's not a hidden nerf

[rustic whale]

we should demand that stats from blizz tho

[turbid harbor]

😂

[rustic whale]

what are you gonna do, raid?

[outer furnace]

is it any webside i can follow for assa rogue for leveling like talent also raiding and m+ when i ding 60 ?

[rustic whale]

check out pinned msg and stick to Single Target talents while levelling up

[crude wedge]

Raid/pvp mostly most likely

[rustic whale]

is that gonna be your first Lego?

[crude wedge]

Yes. It's an alt I've been wanting to make for a long time and finally got around to leveling it

[rustic whale]

i suggest you to make MA lego

%8 lower dps than doomblade on ST

but in overall it will be best for you

considerin you are also gonna do PVP

[quasi ledge]

Doomblade is still good in PvP. Although it depends what PvP you're doing

[crude wedge]

@rustic whale Alright tyty, I'll look into it. @quasi ledge What do you mean exactly what pvp? Arena or RBGs?

[onyx wind]

I like poisoned katar a lot in m+

But i dont run it anymore since i unlocked tea party

[quasi ledge]

If you're gonna raid and then do 2s with a healer or 3s, go Doomblade

If you're just gonna do BGs etc, MA goes up the list

[rustic whale]

np remember PvP revolving around burst dmg. MA giving 4sec + 4 sec ( after vanish ) burst period which is very important. Also we all do world quests it helps on open world too.

[onyx wind]

I think most assassination rogues playing arena are playing doomblade

[rustic whale]

cant wait to equip 2nd lego

[onyx wind]

We also didnt have +50% attack speed back then

Which is what would most likely make that legendary absolutely broken

[rustic whale]

Attack speed would make poison crits energy gain not the increased chance

since its 1 energy reg. Remember Wotlk assasin? Focused attacks? Not so OP

[onyx wind]

I dont quite understand what u mean

[rustic whale]

attack speed would not destroy the energy from that lego. Because it is giving energy on poisons crits Not auto attacks

[onyx wind]

But more attacks means more poison procs, right?

[rustic whale]

indeed but it is not OP as it seems

[onyx wind]

I think it would be a little too strong, but then again

We will never know

[rustic whale]

i see no problem doing good damage on as long as the Rogue stays on the target.

[onyx wind]

Too good damage exists

We are almost at that point already

[rustic whale]

still i bet Dashing would be best 2nd lego to equip

but it is too early for speak

[onyx wind]

You mean as it is now?

[rustic whale]

yep

[onyx wind]

Maybe yea

I hope stuff like duskwalker's will be better

I think the reason it was so good in legion was that we had so many buffs for vendetta

[rustic whale]

as long as the Vendetta remains same that lego will weak

[onyx wind]

Yea, i think so too

[rustic whale]

but if they make vendetta cast on rogue itself

then we are talking

[onyx wind]

We have a vendetta against ourselves :O

[rustic whale]

my vendetta againts blizz

since they are hating us

[onyx wind]

But they buffed assa so much

[rustic whale]

not much only the CttC fixed spec tbh

[onyx wind]

Bruh

Sure, playstyle wise

[quasi ledge]

18% buffs not much?

[onyx wind]

But damage wise i think we are at around 25-27% now

[rustic whale]

%18 was mistake

[quasi ledge]

:p

[onyx wind]

All things considered

[rustic whale]

even they did not give us CttC %50 would not make difference

[quasi ledge]

Uwut

[onyx wind]

Yea it would still feel bad to play

Thats what u mean yea?

[rustic whale]

well

there was nearly no window to deliver envenoms before

we only can just keep slice and rupture

[limber lion]

That's not true

Lol

[onyx wind]

Yea it felt really bad

[rustic whale]

thats not true what?

[onyx wind]

But i think youre exaggerating how much cttc meant for our damage

[limber lion]

Slice literally lasts 50s+ when you apply a max cp pandemic snd

Are you saying that you didn't have enough time in 50s to smash envenoms?

[rustic whale]

do you aware how much energy wasted during that window?

instead of just blowing envenoms

[limber lion]

Huh?

What do you mean?

[onyx wind]

I dont think Volkan is saying you can cast 0 envenoms

[brittle pawn]

I enjoy these machine gun hot takes

[rustic whale]

can you tell me your rotation before CttC @limber lion ?

[limber lion]

Literally the same as it is now.

[rustic whale]

and how long?

[limber lion]

But you cast SnD once every 30-40s

[rustic whale]

CttC definetly saved the spec right now

unless they again plan to remove SnD

[limber lion]

It did not though

[brittle pawn]

[onyx wind]

Playstyle wise, sure it saved the spec

[limber lion]

Cttc gave us like 150 dps

[rustic whale]

i won't argue

[onyx wind]

Damage wise i dont think it was the dealbreaker

[rustic whale]

do as you like

[limber lion]

Yeah, it definitely made the spec smoother

[onyx wind]

But yea i agree the spec was absolute garbage to play for me before

[limber lion]

But it's not like we do 2k more damage because of it.

Cttc buff gave us around 120-150dps whereas the Venthyr buffs gave us way more

If something pushed Assa out of the dumpster, it was the Venthyr and Doomblade changes.

[onyx wind]

I dont think u can attribute it to one thing only

And there is 0 reason to try to

[limber lion]

Yeah definitely, it was the collective of all things to be fair

[willow eagle]

Was venthyr that impactful? Tried assa as necro and it seems to do good damage

[limber lion]

All the small things added up.

[onyx wind]

Yea, venthyr was pretty huge

On top of everything else aswell

[limber lion]

They did also buff Necro quite a bit. It was really bad as well before the nerfs.

They are more in line now than they were when they first introduced the Venthyr buffs.

[rustic whale]

i m NF and still good. And sepsis also doing nice if lined up with Shiv

[onyx wind]

Buffs to one covenant dont make the other ones deal less damage

[rustic whale]

and i cant tell how shapeshift is good on raids m+

blinking rogue what would you want more?

[celest ruin]

boomies on council parsing 10 and still higher than everyone lmao

[willow eagle]

Tbh shapeshift has less value than I expected in castle nathria.

[onyx wind]

teleporting rogue > blinking rogue

also u dont have to be a furry

[rustic whale]

but it has cast time?

[brittle pawn]

target.name != "Begrudging waiter"

For a different story

[onyx wind]

Boomies are pulling their weight on a fight designed to make them look as broken as possible

:O

Damn

[willow eagle]

I think the only boss fight where soulshape really shines is if you're a seed carier on artificier

[rustic whale]

i believe we are gonna see large class changes on 26 april

[onyx wind]

Why 26th?

Did they say smth about release date?

[rustic whale]

nah but it is the end of MDI

[onyx wind]

Ah ok

Could be, yeah

I think theyre kinda happy with how most classes are playing right now

[limber lion]

All covenants are still fine and have their own niche. NF is around 180-200dps behind Venthyr in ST, but definitely doesn't mean it's bad because of that.

[rustic whale]

we ll see

[onyx wind]

Probably just buffs for underperforming classes instead of nerfs to stuff like mage/boomie

[rustic whale]

i just hope they won't release bosses that have 1298371928371897 adds nearby

[onyx wind]

Yea this raid made assa look artificially worse than it is

Maybe they wont realise until next tier

And we will be fotm

[limber lion]

This isn't even an add-heavy raid?

Assa is the go-to spec now on it

We were literally just lacking the numbers

[brittle pawn]

We don't want to be fotm

[onyx wind]

I wouldnt mind

[rustic whale]

i play rogue coz i like it

[limber lion]

Assa is the best spec for every fight, except SLG.

[onyx wind]

Sure, but most people look at overall and cry for buffs

[rustic whale]

but it would be shame if someone does not take you in "rogues bad dps"

[limber lion]

We're in a really good spot now. We don't need any more buffs

Fingers crossed sub gets buffed

More burst and more funnel.

[onyx wind]

Yea we are on the edge of being a little too good

[limber lion]

Give it back its niche

[rustic whale]

they wont touch sub

that spec breaking pvp

[onyx wind]

Sub will always be left in the dumpster :(

[limber lion]

Yeh pretty sure Blizzard considers Sub a "pvp spec"

[willow eagle]

Pvp and pve balance can be done separately

[limber lion]

So they see very little attention in the PvE scene

[onyx wind]

Idk if ur trolling or not

[rustic whale]

so that is why they won't touch it 😄

[onyx wind]

But i said that 2 weeks ago and u flamed me for that take

XD

[willow eagle]

You can buff sub in pve while not making it op in pvp

[limber lion]

Yep agree

[onyx wind]

They can be done seperately but almost never are

[limber lion]

And they should

[rustic whale]

that is not like something blizz do for Rogues

the company hates rogues admit it

[onyx wind]

The best they can do is buff it and then nerf it later in pvp

They never do it at the same time

[limber lion]

There shouldn't be any "pvp specs" in the game that are absolutely useless in raids

[willow eagle]

Isn't this like the first raid tier in forever when rogue had it not as good?

[rustic whale]

they killed Sub in PvP and never touch Ret - Arms etc?

not to mention WW monks

[willow eagle]

Because I'm pretty sure rogue is almost always extremely viable

[limber lion]

Most specs should be viable in PvE, even though some of them are better in PvP.

[willow eagle]

So saying blizz hates rogues is a bit

[limber lion]

There's occasions where we're not the best, but very rarely we're "bad".

Even this tier we had Outlaw which was decent, but there were just other classes that did the same thing but better

Like uDK

[onyx wind]

I think the last few patches for assa prove that

this spec isnt allowed to be bad

[raven shell]

hello, im new to rogue, why does icy veins recommend night fae over venthyr for assassination?

[limber lion]

It hasn't been updated in a while.

Venthyr is the go-to spec for ST in raids.

[raven locust]

We were top tier for a long time but never OP so we went multiple expansions without any significant nerfs, we were the most stable class to play

[onyx wind]

Sure they released this spec as a dumpster fire

But they werent careful at all with buffs

Another one

Another one

[rustic whale]

i dont think this game is finished yet. We are still like playing a beta

[onyx wind]

Compared to stuff like warrior

[rustic whale]

may be they ll adress on 9.1

[raven locust]

They were small 3 and 5% buffs though, they were smarter about buffing Assassination instead of throwing huge meta changes at it

[limber lion]

They buffed Assa very well to be honest.

[subtle hill]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[onyx wind]

The careful way to buff it wouldve been to fix bugs and legendary balancing first

Covenant aswell

[limber lion]

The major buffs happened at the end of the tier

[onyx wind]

And then slap on the aura buffs

[topaz saffron]

If they could address our dead talents next 👌

[onyx wind]

if we were still underperforming

[raven locust]

They inched assassination into a good spot at the moment, very rare for Blizzard to buff with a scalpel

[limber lion]

Keep dreaming :^)

[rustic whale]

they should look assasin talents tbh

[topaz saffron]

🥺

[rustic whale]

its outdated lol

[onyx wind]

Lets be happy with what we got tho

[rustic whale]

always want more bro

[raven locust]

Nearly every spec needs their talents looked at, It would be nice to have interesting choices to pick

[rustic whale]

if you dont demand no one will help

[limber lion]

There's usually periods where Blizzard goes crazy with talents.

So I'm sure we'll see that at some point

They were changing talents a fuck ton in Legion

[onyx wind]

Isnt that usually in x.0.5 patches tho

[topaz saffron]

Our last talent row though, they literally said "Yep thats good"

[rustic whale]

i would be died if they let us CT baseline

[limber lion]

Then they did major changes before BFA

[onyx wind]

Yea legion was crazy

[raven locust]

Venom Rush is one of the dumbest talents in the game for any spec, why they changed it from it's original one is beyond me

[limber lion]

And after that they haven't been touched

[modest glen]

they just need to give us some kind of raid utility or raid buff and we are fine

[onyx wind]

We dont need utility...

[hearty trench]

got a rlly basic question but do overcap cps or finish at 4 ?

[onyx wind]

Our utility is dealing damage

[rustic whale]

swiftblade cunning %5 haste would be niche

[onyx wind]

😎

[modest glen]

exactly..

[limber lion]

With Vigor finish at 4/5, with DS 5/6

[onyx wind]

Just maybe nerf outliers such as DK

and everything is fine

[hearty trench]

ok thx

[raven locust]

If it comes down to bringing a Rogue vs DK a good guild will always bring a DK even if they deal less damage, utility is just far more important

[rustic whale]

i m againts nerfs. Just buff the underpeforming ones instead of others unless they are too OP

[onyx wind]

Sure but its not black or white

Theres a line somewhere

[raven locust]

But giving Rogues another raid CD just bloats the game with a million raid walls

[rustic whale]

they cant handle smoke bomb

coz rogues are too smart

[limber lion]

Tbh Rogue thematically shouldn't have a raid utility

[rustic whale]

yes

we gotta do x3 dps more than our bottom players

😄

[modest glen]

just make our poisons give a debuff or something easy like that

[onyx wind]

Shroud is even a little bit on the far side for me

[raven locust]

They would have to remove the LoS and make it a flat DR, it caused too many balance issues for that to ever return in PvE xd

[limber lion]

The only thing I can think of is "Your poisons apply a devastating effect on the enemy, causing everyone hitting the target to deal 5% more nature damage"

or something like that

[rustic whale]

%5 haste buff we need as raidwise

[brittle pawn]

Buff to 2 classes

[limber lion]

A raid buff and a raid utility like AMZ are not really rogue-like

[rustic whale]

"lets take rogue for %5 buff"

[raven locust]

More haste yes pls

[modest glen]

we should give 5% agi to raid since mages give 5% int

[onyx wind]

Im pretty sure theres a ticket for bringing rogues on the next RWF if we continue the way we are now

also no way UHDK doesnt get nerfed in 9.1

[rustic whale]

that is bringing by warrs as AP

Returning Swiftblade's Cunning would be good idea

as %5 haste as raid buff

[raven locust]

It doesnt matter if UH gets nerfed, AMZ is just too good. They would have to nerf AMZ but not touch their damage since I dont think it needs a nerf

[onyx wind]

Yea thats what i meant sorry

[raven locust]

ah

[brittle pawn]

Rogues are all about themselves. It's literally their name. Why should they bring a group buff

[limber lion]

Exactly

[onyx wind]

You just have a 1 min magic soak, AMZ, execute

[limber lion]

Just let us be at the top of the meters and I'm happy :^^)

[rustic whale]

because they are not gonna give rogues humangous damage

[onyx wind]

They literally just did...

[raven locust]

Bringing AMZ into the game was a mistake imo, now everyone believes every spec has to bring raid utility to be viable

[modest glen]

if we top dmg its fine but as soon as we are not why even bring a rogue?

[onyx wind]

Every class is like that Nexec

Only some like DH and mage

warlock perhaps

always have spots

[rustic whale]

just watch DH tanks getting slapped that fix is coming

[raven locust]

Warrior doesnt matter if they do low dps either, gotta have that debuff

[onyx wind]

Warrior buff is the most expendable raid buff

[modest glen]

if they always have spots, why shouldnt we?

[onyx wind]

I mean monk, sorry

[night moat]

only some like dh, mage, warrior, monk, dk, wl

half the raid ye 😄

[rustic whale]

first CN killed that had 5 dks

5 amz

[onyx wind]

They have spots because of their utility

[night moat]

priest*

[rustic whale]

they also raped aoe dmg

[raven locust]

I would prefer them to reduce overall raid utility instead of giving every single class a niche, just so much unnecessary bloat

[brittle pawn]

They were also like 216 ilvl

[onyx wind]

They already did reduce raid utility

Raid buffs went from 10-5%

[modest glen]

agreed

[rustic whale]

well we ll see about it

[raven locust]

Not just the buffs but raid walls in general

[brittle pawn]

It doesn't matter which 226 classes you bring now

[twin bolt]

Guys, do i get it right? Assuming Master Assassin, blindside and deeper stratagem:

• We use Shiv on CD
• Vendetta and Vanish on CD, always together (first vendetta then vasnish)
• We keep up Garrote on the target
• we keep up rupture
• snd is always up because of Cut to the chase
• envenom with at 5 CP (pooling up to 80 energy)
• flag on cd, but build up 5 CP before
• ambush only with blindside procs

[onyx wind]

It for sure matters, but its just not necessary

[night moat]

even if they reduce raid utility they are still necessary

they are if you raid high enough

[raven locust]

You need to have 5 combos before you Flag the second it comes off CD so you get an instant finisher

[onyx wind]

high enough as in top 5 world?

That is 100 people

[night moat]

even top50 i would say

[twin bolt]

@raven locust i edited it

[onyx wind]

Im not saying it doesnt matter, but its not necessary

[twin bolt]

is it right now?

[raven locust]

But yea that's most of it, pretty simple spec

[onyx wind]

Yes

Those are good general guidelines

[twin bolt]

okay

[raven locust]

You'll want to have some combos and energy ready for Shiv comes off CD as well

[limber lion]

Ye, pool for Shiv and you gucci

[raven locust]

It's all about being ready for when your CDs come off to use them immediately and have energy/combos available without overcapping

[limber lion]

And apply bleeds before Shiv so you don't have to reapply during Shiv

[raven locust]

^

[rapid prism]

Don't vanish after vendetta without 5cp. You wanna use vanish into a 5-6cp env. @twin bolt

[onyx wind]

You can also vanish mut mut env

[limber lion]

With DS it doesn't matter when you vanish

[rapid prism]

Or vanish env mut (crit)env4cp which is way more damage

[onyx wind]

I still really dont understand why its better than say mut->env->mut

[limber lion]

With Vigor you vanish at 4-5 cp

[onyx wind]

or env->mut->env

But apparently it is :)

[raven locust]

Because with nearly 100% crit you would waste 1 combo with double mut

[rapid prism]

Vanish - env-mut-envenom is way more damage than Vanish mut mute env

[onyx wind]

Apparently not according to a high profile theorycrafter

Even in shiv window

[rapid prism]

Top logs say different but you do you.

[onyx wind]

Which i really dont understand

Im not doing it, im still doing env mut env

or mut env mut

[twin bolt]

btu DS is > vigor, right?

[limber lion]

Link me a log of someone playing DS and doing Env - Muti - Env

[limber lion]

For Venthyr yes and also for some covenants if you have a ton of haste.

[onyx wind]

Who cares if people are playing it if its worse? :) :)

[limber lion]

Need to sim to see which is better

[twin bolt]

is the opener on wowhead "right"?

[limber lion]

Yes

IcyVeins is not updated afaik

But Wowhead should be

[minor thicket]

What stats do you put on the gloves for doomblade

[limber lion]

Haste - Crit generally

[onyx wind]

crit haste or haste vers if u pvp

[minor thicket]

10-4

Tyvm

[onyx wind]

Can u guys believe that there are people who dont put the stats in alphabetical order

on legendaries?

smh

[rapid prism]

@limber lion https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2AbWDqaN8ZVzY1Ft#fight=1&type=casts&start=2349&end=35245&source=13 there you go

[twin bolt]

i always put the more important stat higher. shame on me

[limber lion]

Took you a while

[rapid prism]

first vanish opener. shit env mut env

[limber lion]

???

[rapid prism]

i was on mobile. fact of the matter is youre wrong

[limber lion]

He even doesn't Env - Muti - Env

He does Env - Muti - Ambush - Env

My boy

[brittle pawn]

[limber lion]

You linked me a log where they don't even do the thing you said

[onyx wind]

Maybe he does it later in the log

Also, why can i only see the first 35 seconds

:(

[limber lion]

Because he linked the first 35 seconds lol

[onyx wind]

bruh

[limber lion]

Rae does Env - Muti - Muti for the second vanish

Kek

[onyx wind]

Most logical thing ive come up with

[odd kiln]

!guides

[onyx wind]

As to why its not better to env mut env

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[onyx wind]

is that u dont have enough energy for 3rd envenom most of the time anyway

[limber lion]

Yeh, you also overwrite the Envenom buff a little early and lose 1s of it.

And you lose out on potential combo points

There's quite a few things that could matter

Who knows

[onyx wind]

I always try to understand why tho

[limber lion]

And there's a chance for a blindside proc as well

And you apply Doombladce

[onyx wind]

Yea but that proc is there aswell

Just one global later

[brisk forge]

What is the 2nd best trinket for assa in m+? Skulker is out of question aint doing mythic raiding anymore 😜

[limber lion]

Yeh true

Who knows

[onyx wind]

not me :(

[raven locust]

Phial from PF

[onyx wind]

What is the best trinket according to you?

[limber lion]

Phial is bis, IQD is competitive in M+

Really depends on what you're looking for tbh and what you can get your hands on

[onyx wind]

I like IQD and battery

Phial always

[limber lion]

Battery is pretty dank

[burnt latch]

In MA window should I use a blindside proc or mut instead

[onyx wind]

depends a lot

[limber lion]

Blindside

[onyx wind]

blindside if u have less than 5 combo points

[brittle horizon]

Would you recommend running IQD in raids aswell ? Sim very high for me but I guess it's not optimal for raiding

I'm wondering what to run with Phial for pure ST

[limber lion]

It's pretty good for most encounters if you have a weak aura to track it. But there are some fights where it doesn't work at all

[burnt latch]

Okay thx!

[brittle horizon]

Alrighty, thank you !

[limber lion]

Quite bad in Council and SLG, but can work great in Sludge/Shriek/Arti/Sire for example

Good luck!

[onyx wind]

Hateful chain is pretty good since it scales with haste

But yea most raid trinkets are strong

[limber lion]

Memory sims really high and is pretty simple to get.

[brittle horizon]

Gotcha ! My chain is 200 tho so it's probably not my best bet for now ahaha

[limber lion]

Dreadfire is the best trinket in the game but highly likely that you'll never see a 233 version of it.

[onyx wind]

I hope i get a 233 dagger before 9.1 man

[limber lion]

I hope I get CE before 9.1 lol

[brittle pawn]

I hope I get a 226 dagger before 9.1

[onyx wind]

Same...

[limber lion]

Guild is hard stuck on SLG. Not sure which is gonna stand victorious, our guild or SLG.

[onyx wind]

How many wipes?

[limber lion]

250 lmao

[onyx wind]

We have 150 on sludge, but we are bringing new people almost every time

Think hes dying tonight tho

[limber lion]

And it's not even the same reason every time

It's different shit every single pull

It's not like we can get consistent progress by fixing mistakes

[onyx wind]

Man i cba sitting on SLG for 250 pulls

im gonna bench myself

[limber lion]

Because the mistake is always a different mistake

[slender berry]

Nerfs coming soon guys

[limber lion]

Highly recommend it if you have the chance to sit

[onyx wind]

They nerf bosses right after my guild kills them man

ffs

[limber lion]

Also forced to play Outlaw on that boss

And it's awful

[brittle pawn]

Same

[onyx wind]

Im gonna vendor my OL weapons fast

[limber lion]

LOL

[raven locust]

Bosses dont get nerfed till Ion and his guild reach them

[wind nacelle]

What was the best MA talent rotation again? Pool ebergy and cp -> shiv vanish envenom mut spam?

[limber lion]

You mean during the fight or in the opener?

And with Vigor or Deeper Stratagem?

[wind nacelle]

During the fight

Currently running Vigor

Maybe should go DS as I’m with the venthyr no?

[limber lion]

Then you'd want to use shiv, generate to 4-5 cp and then vanish - env - muti - env

[limber lion]

Yeah Venthyr usually play with DS.

[wind nacelle]

Thanks man

[limber lion]

With DS you always do 2x Mutilate and 1x Envenom, so the order doesn't matter

If you're at 5 cp, you do vanish - env - muti - muti

If you're at 2 cp, you do vanish - muti - env - muti

If you're at 0 cp, you do vanish - muti - muti - env

[warm plover]

There is no haste breakpoint right?

[limber lion]

Correct.

[warm plover]

Around 21% is giga fine right?

[limber lion]

Yeah more than so. I'm currently running 17% and doing just fine.

[gusty mirage]

I think I saw somewhere some guild pulled it 600 times to get the kill and that's honestly insane

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

tbh if I don't get it by 200-250, I'm just not raiding anymore

not worth the mental health hit

[warm plover]

I got like 27% crit and 21% haste, sims said that its like perfect stat weight for me atleast 😛

[limber lion]

There we go :p good stuff

[limber lion]

But at that point you're so in deep it's hard to just quit

[gusty mirage]

wtb severe and expedient corruptions tbh

just 1 of each

[wind nacelle]

Thanks for explaining 👍🏻

[gusty mirage]

Yeah true, that's how it feels on council right now. ~35 pulls in and I just want to see those 3 bastards die lol

[limber lion]

No worries! :p

Wouldn't be surprised to see some heavy nerfs to SLG toward the end of the tier

Just to push those last guilds stuck on that boss towards CE.

[celest ruin]

is it worth double potting on sludge or use it at lust?

most kills are like 5 min 30 sec

[limber lion]

I would probably aim for the lust pillar tbh

[celest ruin]

our rl says we lust between 3rd and 4th pillar idk why

[limber lion]

Kinda weird

Most people progressing lust last pillar to get out of the execute phase asap

[celest ruin]

is there a new mechanic for mythic that happens in that phase

[limber lion]

No

It's the same fight from 100% to 30%

Then he enrages and does a lot more damage

[dawn ivy]

well lusting ~10 seconds before fourth pillar i think is pretty typical

[limber lion]

Yeah this is true.

[dawn ivy]

helps healers get everyone topped before that fourth pillar

[limber lion]

Just before the last stomp* pretty much

[dawn ivy]

yeah

[celest ruin]

thanks ill try that out

[onyx wind]

Potting on 4th pillar with lust and 100% increased dmg taken is probably better

Atleast thats what i do

Also thats when you have CD's, you maybe dont have CD's at 5:10 or whatever u need for 2nd pot

[royal lantern]

i mean

if you use hero before the 4th pillar you PROBABLY gonna wipe

cus of the dmg buff he gets at 30%

[blissful storm]

why top assassination rogues open with mutilate instead of ambush?

ambush is doing 2 times more damage

[royal lantern]

mut crits

simple as that

[onyx wind]

Yes, ambush does more damage

Even without blindside, the increased chance to proc alacrity makes up for the lower dmg mut does

And if you play blindside, then that is also a reason to use mut

[onyx wind]

You use hero before 4th pillar so healers can stabilise the group before the final impact

Or, not final

4th

[odd kiln]

Whats the best assass raiding legendary?

[limber lion]

Doomblade

[onyx wind]

Doomblade for parsing, zoldyck for progress

[odd kiln]

nice ty ty

[onyx wind]

B)

[limber lion]

Doomblade for everything, Zoldyck for mythic sire progress*

[odd kiln]

i'll go zoldyck then as my guild still progressing mythic

[thorn dove]

Go doomblade

[odd kiln]

kk got it

[onyx wind]

Dont tell my man what to do!

[thorn dove]

Eh do what you want then. But go doomblade 😎

[onyx wind]

😎 👍

[restive dawn]

heya just wanted to get ideas on how to maximise vendetta. should i be using it on pull or should i try to align it with vanish after setting up rupture then go into the MA rotation from there?

[blissful storm]

@royal lantern @onyx wind ahh I see thanks, so never use ambush in Master Assa window it seems

[limber lion]

You pretty much want to use it after applying rupture. You can refer to the RH or WowHead guides here:

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[restive dawn]

aryt thanks! i did read through the guides and all but wanted to see if there were other things to keep in mind too

[onyx wind]

I try to delay vendetta as much as possible, but without lust i often use it early for the energy while setting up

[twin bolt]

does someone have maybe some minutes and can check my xymox and inverva logs if i do any major mistakes? did only around 90% parsing for my ilvl, i though it would be better (ilvl 199 only tho).

[restive dawn]

oh makes sense! would it matter if i had to refresh rupture or garrote while under vendetta? im coming from sub where we tend not to during shadow dance lol

[limber lion]

No, doesn't matter.

In fact you have to because Garrote is 18s and Vendetta is 20s

But you don't want to reapply rupture during Shiv windows

[restive dawn]

Cool yea I thought so! Thanks heaps!

[onyx wind]

You usually dont have to refresh rupture, but garrote always

[onyx wind]

Also, bleeds work very differently for assa since they give u energy back

Which means u never want them to fall off

So basically you always want to refresh it when it falls off, but you try to not make it fall off during stuff like vendetta/shiv

[restive dawn]

Nice, got it!! Thanks everyone!

[twin bolt]

so for how long we can delay shiv if we need to refresh rupture/garrote?

[limber lion]

0s

[twin bolt]

3, 4 GCDs?

oh okay xD

[limber lion]

You don't delay Shiv at all

You preemptively refresh garrote/rupture so they don't fall off during the Shiv window

Let's take an example

[twin bolt]

even if its outside pandemic window?

[willow isle]

Does shiv work on nature dmg from trinkets or anima powers in torghast?

[limber lion]

Shiv has 10s cooldown left, Garrote has 13s duration left, Rupture is at 15s

When Shiv hits 0s, your Garrote will have 3s duration and Rupture 5s

So you have to think during those 10s

"Okay, I need to refresh Rupture so I don't have to delay it during Shiv"

Garrote is not as important because it's a generator

But it's really important to do that with Rupture because it will eat up your combo points that you want to use on Envenom's instead.

[twin bolt]

okay thanks

and with vanish we just align it with vendetta, right? so always vendetta -> vanish -> mutilate/whatever

[limber lion]

Yeah pretty much.

You can vendetta quite a bit earlier because it lasts for 20s and the Master Assa buff from Vanish only lasts for 3s.

It's not that important to do it right before,.

[twin bolt]

ah ye, right

[limber lion]

Especially if you properly pool before it.

If you need the energy from Vendetta, then it can be good

[old depot]

New to sin rogue...silly question but what is extending my vendetta duration when I'm using my rotation on training dummies?

[limber lion]

Nothing?

[royal lantern]

nothing should do that?

[limber lion]

There isn't a mechanic that extends Vendetta

[dawn ivy]

youre cheating

[old depot]

Is my weakaura bugged?

[limber lion]

Looks like it.

[dawn ivy]

are you level 60?

[limber lion]

Try looking at the debuff on the enemy

[old depot]

Dam ok, I was driving myself nuts trying to find the passive/skill that was doing it

[limber lion]

Either on their unitframe or nameplate

[dawn ivy]

im ready for that though 👀