That’s new stuff whisp right? We didn’t always do that with sepsis right
#assassination
pliant apex
balmy condor
just drop it on prio
balmy condor
That’s new stuff whisp right? We didn’t always do that with sepsis right
uh, we've done that for a while
maybe like a month or so?
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> yeah but when ??
whenever you feel like it
undone eagle
i dont wanna mess something up
balmy condor
usually towards the start of a pull
pliant apex
maybe like a month or so?
Ah yea I meant since beginning of expac
subtle kiln
m g m f r
undone eagle
ah but good idea is maybe that i use Marked of death and use it?
loud silo
stop over complicating it
balmy condor
we're doing m+ pulls?
loud silo
thank god im not qualified for this chat
undone eagle
xD
loud silo
whispyr save me
dense hamlet
balmy condor
subt 3 garrotes, rupture, generate, drop vend/flag/shiv on prio, continue as per normal
subtle kiln
what do you want raid or m+
undone eagle
aight cheers
subtle kiln
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
dense hamlet
open with MFD KIDNEY to show dominance + big internal bleeding DOT so big dam
burnt star
fair question someone asked earlier. and i was wondering too:
in fight like huntsman: would u delay flag/vend/shiv after both target get gar/rupt?
loud silo
open with MFD KIDNEY to show dominance + big internal bleeding DOT so big dam
spit on them for dominance
manic crescent
how many target should i dot max ?
loud silo
fair question someone asked earlier. and i was wondering too:
in fight like hunt...
yes
get bleeds on both targets then press go go buttons
burnt star
like would u mut-snd-mut-gar-rap 1 target. then mut-gar-continue regular opener on 2nd
u just answer 😉 thx
pliant apex
uh, we've done that for a while
Why don’t guides like ravenholdt not mention how to use sepsis and then vanish after 7 secs, it just says env-shiv-vanish
loud silo
most guides assume you can think for yourself
balmy condor
Why don’t guides like ravenholdt not mention how to use sepsis and then vanish a...
because there's too many variables to cover every single base
if there was stuff for every talent and every covenant
loud silo
I dont mean to sound toxic but thats a common thing
balmy condor
the guide would be like 900 pages long
loud silo
people follow guides to a tea and dont think
balmy condor
that is true
but guides are also not supposed to be the omega min-max
cause that minutia is often nuanced
loud silo
guides are for people to learn the basics
balmy condor
yep
pliant apex
not the ins and outs of your spec
You are toxic and rude and dis respectful
loud silo
This is true
stoic needle
asap on the opener so you can build stacks while getting your bleeds up
manic crescent
@loud silo This is literally a discord to help players get better at a class and you say think for yourself ?
dense hamlet
yes put ur bleeds up by MfD kidney and procing internal bleeding for VW pog
loud silo
I mean theres nothing wrong with asking for help but I'm just talking about the guide specifically
pliant apex
people follow guides to a tea and dont think
That’s because most ppl don’t enjoy learning a class; they’re not passionate like some top players here, to them so much effort into learning a class isn’t worth it. They want to turn off their mind and follow a guide and that’s okay.
dawn breach
Which leggo do I want to use this week in m+?
dawn breach
funny guy
loud silo
Holy shit some people really can't handle it
stoic needle
funny guy
but seriously probably zoldyck
because it's impossible to get restealths this week
dawn breach
Yea, that's what I was thinking 🙂
pliant apex
I can handle stuff just fine, as long as it’s objective, as long as criticism is fair sir.
uneven summit
Do we delay Flag for Vendetta?
dense hamlet
Do we delay Flag for Vendetta?
if u dont miss a cast yep
loud silo
I wasn't targeting you at all
All I'm saying is guides can't have absolutely everything
And it would help if people thought about why the guides say what they do
but thats just my opinions so w/e
ebon bramble
but seriously probably zoldyck
isnt zoldyck the general pick for all m+ anyways?
iron orchid
isnt zoldyck the general pick for all m+ anyways?
it is
ebon bramble
i wonder how far behind doomblade is in m+
iron orchid
but some people prefer MA, which is kinda unplayable as sin this week
ebon bramble
or dashing, i dnt actually know a lot of ppl using dashing lol
ebon bramble
but some people prefer MA, which is kinda unplayable as sin this week
spiteful, such a melee friendly affix
stoic needle
its hard to quantify how behidn it is
iron orchid
i wonder how far behind doomblade is in m+
it depends on the dungeon, it wouldn't be BAD, but probably not as strong as Zold
stoic needle
cuz it makes you bettera t 1 thing and worse at others
hushed sphinx
shout out to all the hunters this week not shooting little arrows at the shades fucking up my restealths
iron orchid
MA NS was pretty gud yesterday
I played a 19 theater and shit, kinda sad overall
ebon bramble
trying to decide on legendary to craft lol 🤔
limber lion
MA NS was pretty gud yesterday
Which ability do you NS? :')
loud silo
fire mage is purely reliant on the tank and the pulls
balmy condor
Which ability do you NS? :')
CT :')
limber lion
Nice :')
iron orchid
on HoA 18, same route as last two weeks, our overall damage dropped 600ish
not just myself, but the group
ebon bramble
is it weird if i use doomblade in m+? lol bad idea?
iron orchid
somehow I just FEEL bad playing MA compared to the last two weeks
iron orchid
is it weird if i use doomblade in m+? lol bad idea?
weird yes, bad idea no, maybe not very optimal
but I've played it by mistake last week and it didn't feel bad
ebon bramble
how much lower was overall damage?
onyx wind
kinda impossible to compare overall with different groups and different dungeons
onyx wind
pretty sure zoldyck is better
doesnt lose value the higher the key gets
compared to stuff like MA
onyx wind
but u can have success with anything
ebon bramble
legs?
dense hamlet
yes
dense hamlet
nothing
slow marsh
But then again it's fortified so
I just see people asking about sin m+ all the time and I have no issues ever
I actually haven't equipped MA in a hot minute
onyx wind
same im sitting at 7k+ with zoldyc
proven granite
should I change my a and d keys to strafe left and right?
frail fossil
fire mage is purely reliant on the tank and the pulls
can this meme die
proven granite
and turn camara with mouse?
frail fossil
like fire mage is not about relying on well timing your cds
since combust is a 1min cd
proven granite
damn I neeed to get used to it
frail fossil
how is that harder to time than just an adrenaline rush which has roughly the same cd
loud silo
but you still want the tank to pull big so you can lay a shit tonne of aoe down
frail fossil
u dont need to like
if tank does 4 mobs pull with combust u'll still top
that's not an assa discussion so i'll leave it there but
loud silo
theres variables to it but yeah lets leave it
gleaming parcel
Which gear slot should I make my doomblade lego and what missives should i use?
north nebula
Hands, I've heard. Don't remember specifically why though
quick vale
hands, crit haste is what i did. but simming usually gets best results for your character 🙂
loud silo
Hands because shoulders from SLG
gleaming parcel
Awesome, thanks for the help 🙂
shy dust
how is that harder to time than just an adrenaline rush which has roughly the sa...
Comparing combust to AR
is one of the worst things I’ve heard
frail fossil
they literally have the same cd
loud silo
but the impact of AR compared to combust
frail fossil
oh yeah it's nowhere near, just wondering why people are like fire mage need 5head cd timing when their cds are like so short
shy dust
I mean
loud silo
I never once mentioned cd timing
shy dust
You do need to be semi pulled around to do strong damage
Comparing it to ar
Which is basically useless
Is dumb
Do you ever tell a tank yeah I have ar can you pull big?
shy dust
Because it’s literally not a strong cd in any way
west blaze
Just use AR on cooldown pretty much
placid wharf
yo question
frail fossil
yeah but fire mage at this point got combust for all the pulls 
shy dust
yo question
Answer
placid wharf
on hungering how do i avoid doing the consume
west blaze
and maybe save for pride
frail fossil
on hungering how do i avoid doing the consume
u cloak it
placid wharf
when do i cloak
dense hamlet
on hungering how do i avoid doing the consume
u can cloak it after 1 sec
dense hamlet
since its 6sec
shy dust
Cloak a second after
frail fossil
after he finish his first cast
placid wharf
ty
frail fossil
u'll take one tick at the end
i do not recommend doing this if u're progressing the boss
dense hamlet
fuck it
icy crater
i cloaked consume on prog 🙂
dense hamlet
yezzir
loud silo
min max every pull or get out of my face
shy dust
"prog" on renown 40 220+ raid ilvl
So people aren’t allowed to prog?
By your definition
dense hamlet
?
shy dust
What dumbass shit is that
frail fossil
yes people progress raid at a different pace 
frail fossil
breaking news
dense hamlet
if u dont have any exp on the fight ur not gonna go in and kill it after first pull cuz u have 220 gear
shadow pivot
@shy dust definitly not what im saying. im saying you can totally do that today and it will be just fine, but it wasnt recommanded when undergeared
shy dust
Work on your wording then
strange python
It's not prog if you're not doing naked with broken bottles for weapons
shy dust
That came off extremely condescending
frail fossil
just that if u struggle killing the boss cloak is good to be used for actual survivability when u're in danger and not in a mechanic u can avoid by running away
frail fossil
like on prog it can happen you'll get miasma and ring and no one soaked you so u're low
well having cloak for that is nice
dense hamlet
yeah it is
strange python
People are mad sensitive today
untold wagon
hey everyone, how come its suggested some places to open with mutilate and not ambush?
is it because of potentiel blindside proc?
balmy condor
hey everyone, how come its suggested some places to open with mutilate and not a...
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
untold wagon
ah okay thanks 😄
sleek sparrow
On prog I always had to use cloak to clear orbs 
flint summit
Wait, we ambush on sepsis proc? Isn't it still the same cost as normal ambush?
balmy condor
Wait, we ambush on sepsis proc? Isn't it still the same cost as normal ambush?
me and koji have been fighting about it forever
narrow ravine
what are the odds of flagellation conduit getting nerfed in pve?
flint summit
So you send it on sepsis procs because of the higher damage? Opener mutilate is more for the combo points and poison uptime?
sleek sparrow
What are the odds of anything getting nerfed in pve
shy dust
50/50
Either it gets nerfed or not
I wouldn’t think that nerfing assassination is in blizzards mind though
balmy condor
So you send it on sepsis procs because of the higher damage? Opener mutilate is ...
the reason we were disagreeing about sepsis ambush was because there wasn't a clear reason as to which was better
the margin was too small
vestal wren
it seems fine to use it with sepsis
soft shale
it does fine damage for 40 energy anyway right
balmy condor
50*
ebon bramble
What are the odds of anything getting nerfed in pve
why would anything get nerfed? not like we are top dps at anything
sleek sparrow
It was in response to the flag nerf question lol
vestal wren
assassination is the #1 melee dps rn if i do remember the wcl statistic right
low girder
it's also #1 on boss dmg
vestal wren
that does not rly mean it will get a nerf
low girder
doubtful, doesn't seem to be overly out of line, and it pays for it in aoe
stark heart
So you send it on sepsis procs because of the higher damage? Opener mutilate is ...
It doesn't matter for poison, you have 100% chance to apply it and mutilate doesn't give you extra dp hit proc
brittle pawn
still pretty underplayed, too
ebon bramble
it's also #1 on boss dmg
not even by a large margin tho. i feel like we are the melee version of spriest but slightly weaker due to no ranged cleaving or mass aoe.
brittle pawn
pretty identical to feral
low girder
i did say just that right after
but the question was we weren't good at anything
that is false 😛
strange python
whats a good stat distribution for m+/cleave ? obvi i know sim ur self and all that but just curious if people have some distributions that feel good to them
brittle pawn
there is no answer anyone will give that won't be useless to you
strange python
i mean thats just not true but ok i wont bother asking
balmy condor
it's pretty true
gentle gyro
i mean what do you expect
strange python
i wasnt asking for someone to tell me exactly what stats to use. was just asking what had felt good to play with purely subjective from others opinions
vestal wren
everything not mastery
balmy condor
well crit gives you cp, so that feels pretty good
gentle gyro
mastery becomes less bad, crit gives you more cp to spend
fathom lynx
whats a good stat distribution for m+/cleave ? obvi i know sim ur self and all t...
My stats are currently all pretty much within 0.2 points of each other, using doomblade (don't have zoldyck) for m+ so I really couldn't tell you. I will say if my stats are close I will always prefer crit over haste over vers/mastery because they speed up the game play - if that's any kind of answer you're looking for
gentle gyro
but generally, just stick to haste crit
strange python
word thanks guys thats all i was wondering lol just wanted to hear some peoples opinions as this is my alt and im not quite as comfortable with the specifics of it
ebon bramble
is mastery really that bad for us in single target?
right now i prefer stascking haste and crit to make the spec flow smoother but always wondered mathematically how bad mastery is lol
nimble tartan
dude nonbloodlust deeper strat opener is fuckin brutally slow my GOD
fathom lynx
Yeah man - alt-tabbing is part of my opener with DS 🙃
balmy condor
is mastery really that bad for us in single target?
yes
iron orchid
When you can't restealth in DOS ...
proven talon
with ma opener, are we only doing one mut into envenom for the MA window then going to 6 afterwards?
brittle pawn
imagine playing sin this week though
iron orchid
I just wanna shoot myself but I still keep playing
brittle pawn
i just cry in outlaw as i continue to get no dagger
balmy condor
with ma opener, are we only doing one mut into envenom for the MA window then g...
mut snd mut for the first window
mut env mut for the second
proven talon
why the first mut over ambush
balmy condor
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
low girder
imagine doing keys this week*
ebon bramble
its not thaaaaaat bad
next season i hope blizzard adds in another anti melee affix
standing within 15 yards of an ally causes you to take additional damage!
knotty sparrow
When are you guys popping flag+vendetta on sludgefist??
balmy condor
pull, pillar 2, and 4
sleek sparrow
Melee quaking exists for DHs 
knotty sparrow
Or poison bomb for the whole raid?
knotty sparrow
Ty
stoic needle
right now i prefer stascking haste and crit to make the spec flow smoother but a...
Run your stat weights and see, it's not that far behind vers for me
Just scales a lot worse
ebon bramble
hmm
that kind of sucks lol
that means we wont scale as well! cause vers isnt last stat
stoic needle
You're telling me 
ebon bramble
gasp!
balmy condor
ebon bramble
wont someone think of the scaling?!
balmy condor
gonna get the belt ffs
ebon bramble
🤣
stoic needle
brittle pawn
MM too
balmy condor
yeah imagine getting bugs fixed
brittle pawn
literally unplayable
rapid mirage
Man, my group wont let me play Sin this week cause Subcreation says that it's not S teir ._.
brittle pawn
your group might be r words
rapid mirage
Agreeedd
brittle pawn
8
ebon bramble
8k? dang
stoic needle
You can sim that 
ebon bramble
guess being ass is against the law
balmy condor
pins are the plastic coated wooden monoliths at the end of a bowling lane
icy crater
!pins
balmy condor
that command actually does something
icy crater
how is that not a command
balmy condor
hidden crypt
you guys running sharpening stones or oils?
royal lantern
i swear
ebon bramble
just do
kind talon
Ur trolling that guy man
ebon bramble
@balmy condor for pins
balmy condor
you guys running sharpening stones or oils?
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
balmy condor
but I use stones
royal lantern
you guys running sharpening stones or oils?
both
balmy condor
cause consistency
royal lantern
i use 1 oil 1 stone
kind talon
He’s gonna spend rest of today looking for the mention bro @royal lantern
hidden crypt
cause consistency
yeah same for feral usually, was wondering if assa was different, seems like it's closer here
balmy condor
wait until you hear about m+ builds
brittle pawn
or openers
balmy condor
kind talon
Yes
royal lantern
maybe
kind talon
Suphoz
balmy condor
pick 1-2 of these 4 conduits
kind talon
Suphoz’s proclamation is bis
balmy condor
also the soulbind doesn't matter either
kind talon
Sephuz oops lol
balmy condor
I bet sephuz would be real mad if he weren't busy with hearthstone
kind talon
Truuueee
icy crater
Why do my sims suck? Well you picked about 10 things that are .5-1% worse than the optimal one so you're like 10% lower than you should be
ohhhh
balmy condor
that's the best imo
people link a sim
and it's like 500 lower than it should be
because there's like 6-7 things wrong
sleek sparrow
Why sim if you're not going to sim all the options :concerned-1:
balmy condor
and then they hit you with the "well I thought it was close"
royal lantern
isnt the base setting of sims good in most cases
or do you mean talents/legendarys?
icy crater
At least they didn't link a sim in #outlaw after testing and forgot to turn permanent rtb buffs off
Who would do that...
Wondering wtf is wrong
balmy condor
hmmmmmmm
sleek sparrow
Oh so fun story, I went back to my first ever wow server and was scoping out oribos, looked at the prog and saw the farthest progged guiled was 2/10m, immediately saw a rogue with norganons pants crafted in town
Quickly logged out of server and haven't returned
balmy condor
every now and then I get a whisper while I sit in oribos asking if I'm "that whispyr"
those are always funny
thorn turtle
Pog
solid chasm
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
thorn turtle
The famous one
sleek sparrow
I'm just shocked that you can craft norganons as a melee
low girder
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2CPWzxqGRQDfMasNtCPF3W
hey whispyr why's my sim so slow
balmy condor
I've started replying with "idk who whispyr is"
low girder
sleek sparrow
Like why would the game let you do this
buoyant schooner
quick question, what stats should I put on doom gloves?
balmy condor
and then they get really confused
balmy condor
quick question, what stats should I put on doom gloves?
haste/crit
buoyant schooner
ty!
low girder
sad days
sleek sparrow
I blame blizzard for enabling players to be this bad
balmy condor
you think 500 dps by swapping specs is a lot
try swapping from resto druid to boomy
icy crater
good 1
low girder
like dmg
low girder
yeah idk that any are
icy crater
yea im actually investing like 10 hrs a day into TCing new APL for holy priest
so uh
I'll get that pushed soon
solid chasm
whispyr i have question
balmy condor
I probably have an answer
stoic needle
Norgannons 
solid chasm
i just got a sin WA, but it also shows up with a sub wa when im in sub spec
and i dont want it to bc i have a dif one i use
how do fix
balmy condor
yeah idk that any are
they are not, tanks are implemented mostly though
brittle pawn
swapping my doomblade from haste/vers to haste/crit is +16 dps 
low girder
yeah tanks i knew
sleek sparrow
Norgannons <:pepehmm:674322381841498118>
Tell me about it
I didn't even know it was possible
balmy condor
i just got a sin WA, but it also shows up with a sub wa when im in sub spec
go into load, and then just force everything to load in sin
and see if that breaks it
if you start getting jank shit double overlapping you're gonna have to go through and delete the ones that are sub
balmy condor
yeah gonna have to go through it and delete the stuff you don't want
balmy condor
balmy condor
indeed an unsolvable problem
brittle pawn
depends
balmy condor
an extra garrote tick I guess?
royal lantern
every now and then I get a whisper while I sit in oribos asking if I'm "that whi...
i had it ONCE that somone knew my name
civic trellis
sims say there is not but higher garrote uptime should mean more energy
brittle pawn
on if you put your lettuce and tomato on the top or bottom of your sandwich
royal lantern
cant happen now anymore cus my ingame name is not my discord name :c
balmy condor
sims say there is not but higher garrote uptime should mean more energy
it's literally 1 second of garrote uptime
of course there's not going to be a difference
balmy condor
exactly
low girder
yes you might maybe get 8 more energy over a 5m fight
balmy condor
8 energy is, for sake of argument, a 5th of a mutilate
stoic needle
Poggers
low girder
ie nothing
stoic needle
Huge gains
civic trellis
😄
balmy condor
over a course of 5min?
stoic needle
Giga gainz
civic trellis
0.66 dps
balmy condor
two whole thirds
of a dps
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
stoic needle
Now this is min maxing
civic trellis
in sludge it would be 1.3
balmy condor
it would actually be 0.66 on sludge as well
stoic needle
!
balmy condor
cause it doesn't change how you play pillars
civic trellis
no because that energy proc you use it at pilars
civic trellis
XD
And there is no reason to start with ambush right
from stealth
Saw some logs do it but idk, it doesnt make sense for me
balmy condor
yeah logs are dumb dumbs
low girder
never forget the top sin rogue pre-9.0.5 was doing garr garr mut openers with subterfuge
on single target
balmy condor
mega pog
dawn ivy
i mean there were also only psychopaths still playing sin pre 9.0.5
frail fossil
or people that liked the spec
vestal wren
people always forget that doing some mistakes is fine and won't rly change your parse
onyx wind
Saw some logs do it but idk, it doesnt make sense for me
It deals more damage, but you lose out on value from alacrity
since you have a higher chance of proccing with mut
which is why the sims favour mut on first global
vestal wren
we had at times found better rotations but not one of the top logs did apply/use those
onyx wind
outside of blindside ofc
misty holly
does anyone know if eternal skirmish or stats is better enchant?
balmy condor
does anyone know if eternal skirmish or stats is better enchant?
sim for the situation
misty holly
follow up question. does anyone know how to compare things in a sim?
balmy condor
top gear
low girder
people always forget that doing some mistakes is fine and won't rly change your ...
also this should just be pinned by now
civic trellis
Well sometimes i notice a noticiable dps loss if i just smash env on cd
vestal wren
10% is noticable tho^^
steady owl
does dashing scoundrel work on aeo? If i evenom the targeted mob and fok, will my poisons on the other mobs i hit have their crit increased even though theyre not my current target?
balmy condor
does dashing scoundrel work on aeo? If i evenom the targeted mob and fok, will m...
yes
the effect from dashing is applied to the envenom buff
raven flower
mut spec really taking off might have to switch from outlaw
what do i need to attain before i switch
steady owl
ty, thats really nice
balmy condor
2 daggers
ruby birch
you mean mutE spec
misty holly
ass spec
raven flower
got 2 daggers...what else
raven flower
gdi my cov is the worst one lol
raven flower
that might be my last aquisition
raven flower
can i rol my face on teh keyboard and get top deeps?
ruby birch
no
low girder
Booty spec
my best friend requires me to call it buttrogue
raven flower
i just want to shit on the 3 UH dks in my raid lol
ruby birch
you gotta keep your dots up
fathom lynx
and mut -> garrote?
Opening with Mut from stealth applies 2 instances of 100% Deadly Poison, while Garrote does not apply any Deadly Poison at all.
stoic needle
It actually only applies once afaik
misty holly
wait hold on. I'm gone from discord for one day and suddenly we're not using garotte anymore?
stoic needle
i tried testing it and could only get 1 proc from a mut
thorny rose
imo: sin > assa > mut
ruby birch
wym not using garrote anymore
kind talon
u forgot ass
ruby birch
imo: sin > assa > mut
ass > sin > assa > mut
balmy condor
wait hold on. I'm gone from discord for one day and suddenly we're not using gar...
what?
misty holly
garrote doesn't apply poison
fathom lynx
i tried testing it and could only get 1 proc from a mut
This could be true actually - I've not actually tried it, just thought it worked like that from the passive
balmy condor
garrote doesn't apply poison
now I'm even more confused, what's the point here?
of course we use garrote
raven flower
but I do appreciate the elders who say Mut
im no elder...
balmy condor
who's saying to not use garrote
frail fossil
ruby birch
@misty holly do you mean not use garrote from stealth?
ruby birch
if so im pretty sure that's been going on like ever since 9.0.5 dropped
maybe even before
balmy condor
we haven't used subterfuge in single target all expansion
lavish pulsar
hey just got here. if we're tossing out garrote can we toss out mutilate too? i'd like to dps with throwing dagger or whatever our ranged ability is called
low girder
i meant the talent
ruby birch
hey just got here. if we're tossing out garrote can we toss out mutilate too? i'...
unequip your daggers and punch like a man
low girder
yeah well that's what blizzard gets for bringing the leggo back
civic trellis
Opening with Mut from stealth applies 2 instances of 100% Deadly Poison, while G...
?
low girder
paging navi
stoic needle
poggers
balmy condor
@normal olive require help, open with throw knife?
ruby birch
open with blind
civic trellis
right
ruby birch
blind > cheap > kidney
civic trellis
blind > pick pocket > sprint
solid chasm
god damn it im kinda enjoying sin on these dummies]
ruby birch
stunlock the boss 
solid chasm
what is happening to me
low girder
solid chasm
@stoic needle this is your fault
low girder
one of my favourites of his
solid chasm
xd
balmy condor
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/758985563935604756/P...
art
stoic needle
<@!502859708504342538> this is your fault
stoic needle
Make a WA for it
solid chasm
but happens less frequently now that i have a wa
stoic needle
Download my WA pack
misty holly
make a castsequence macro to cast mutilate, ambush, shiv, flagellation and mash it
normal olive
burnt star
Throw knife-throw knife-snd-throw knife vendetta
Then vanish. And repeat
I use celerity to throw knife faster
raven flower
is the icy-veins guide a good oen to follow?
balmy condor
yes
clever scroll
Who wants to help ya boy with tourghast
subtle tundra
this aint lfg
crimson palm
:pepeclown-1:
subtle tundra
damn youre so cool
warm portal
are we popping Flag on Cd or waiting for Vendetta ?
dawn ivy
depending on the fight youre in you need to look at how many flag casts you can possibly fit in and make sure you get that many
brittle pawn
use with vendetta on short fights where you won't lose a cast of it if you hold
stoic needle
its usually better to just use it on cd and not risk fucking it up and losing a cast
dawn ivy
^
cerulean kernel
unless you punch it on a shield
balmy condor
If you squint really hard, you can see how many fucks I give
If you squint really hard, you'll get a mute for being an asshole. This isn't lfr
brittle pawn
clever scroll
what about for being hypocrite ? you judging me sure makes you seem like an asshole to mee
dawn ivy
this aint it chief
clever scroll
while being a dick about it
thorny rose
lol
brittle pawn
edgelord extremo
clever scroll
Kek
thorny rose
gets told the rules
balmy condor
so then you decided to be a dick about it
thorny rose
reeeee
dawn ivy
theyve banned for much less buddy this aint the hill to die on
brittle pawn
kid's just craving attention
crimson palm
strange python
Any confirmation varas is still alive after that epic roast?
strange python
Lol
fallen current
Big brain man was here.
balmy condor
void pecan
Wat
balmy condor
why does that continue to be a question
sleek sparrow
loud light
it's phrased like they were told this and wanted confirmation
but who would do such a thing
sleek sparrow
Sounds very unmasterful of you
patent pasture
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
rich dawn
Thank you p
dense bramble
So we don’t garrote anymore?
where did u learn this?
thorn slate
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
vestal coyote
How much haste do I need to swap to deeper strat over vigor for ST or is it close enough at low haste to just swap? Can sim but looking for just a general idea
onyx wind
if ur venthyr u can swap whenever
it was better for me at like 12%, but didnt sim earlier
balmy condor
non venthyr needs like 20ish from what I've seen
rustic whale
say we if you have %20 haste, is it better to go deeper?
rustic whale
or just sim?
vestal coyote
Gotcha, will swap then. Thank you!
balmy condor
sim is always it
rustic whale
so i have another question if you guys can tell me before sim.
226 crit+versa or 220 crit+haste
onyx wind
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
onyx wind
XD
rustic whale
i have 20 haste and 28 crit
onyx wind
versa bro XD
balmy condor
226 crit+versa or 220 crit+haste
probably the ilvl
rustic whale
due to agility right?
dire spoke
balmy condor
and just having more stats as well
vestal coyote
Wait, vers over crit now for ST?
rustic whale
i mean it was like crit+haste
onyx wind
yes crit haste is better
rustic whale
now why is it crit+versa?
stoic needle
Do you know what >= means
rustic whale
no sry i m new here
balmy condor
the = implies that they're very similar
compact pumice
= means “Greater than or equal to”
balmy condor
and so we return to back to "sim yourself"
onyx wind
if ur venthyr and doomblade, crit is generally ur best stat
but i guess the sims fir !stats are done more generally
compact pumice
Stay weights always depends on your current stats, so you should always sim yourself
rustic whale
i m NF niya and doomblade
yeah will do sim
has anyone stacked %25 base crit + mA talent + korayn to use spear on NW?
sour thunder
How does assasin buff feel? Is it enough?
balmy condor
and what's wrong with that
onyx wind
its so sad
rustic whale
i crafted my doomblade as crit haste
onyx wind
me too
stoic needle
has anyone stacked %25 base crit + mA talent + korayn to use spear on NW?
Ma talent doesn't work on spears
onyx wind
so much wasted potential man :/
rustic whale
legendary not working but what about Master Assasin talent? talent also working same?
onyx wind
Ma talent doesn't work on spears
someone said otherwise yday, u sure?
stoic needle
Having haste vers legendary just means that a peice of crit haste hear will sim better for you eventually then for someone who crafted crit haste
stoic needle
someone said otherwise yday, u sure?
Yes I am very sure
onyx wind
aight nice
balmy condor
I don't think that "potential" means what you think it means
stoic needle
It's never worked on any of the items
balmy condor
:/
stoic needle
The talent never worked, and the legendary doesn't work anymore
low girder
the talent has always (afaik) been whitelisted, the leggo got changed to be in the patch
onyx wind
nice to know
balmy condor
yeh
doesn't stop jpc from thinking the talent works apparently
but clowns gonna clown
onyx wind
is fire mage still allowed to crit the orb tho
onyx wind
yea for general tuning and targetcap stuff probably
stoic needle
onyx wind
but they fixed rogue leggo in the midst
low girder
i don't see target caps being messed with until at least 9.1
rustic whale
i m feeling myself like homeless when a mage pulls 60+k 😄
stoic needle
May fire mage die a horrible death
rustic whale
i only play as rogue or i dont play wow
fallen current
Was in a 15 PF and watched a fire mage nuke all the slimes at once. Did like 200k dps. I was sad I had the tiny target cap
rustic whale
yeah we all do same
just stand there and watch
cc bot or int bot
but boss dmg is good tho 😄
indigo mulch
Mages are just extremly overtuned for m+ atm :S
rustic whale
dw they will eat nerfbat so hard
fallen current
Doubt it.
onyx wind
dont think so
onyx wind
u are literally tailoring the dungeon to make fire mage as strong as possible
fallen current
Only thing I wish was that drums were better than what they are now.
stoic needle
just become a fire mage
I'd rather unsub
onyx wind
so obviously its gonna look broken
sour thunder
How is assass dps after 905?
onyx wind
too good
stoic needle
Good
indigo mulch
They are the only class you could do that with
What other class can you do that with? D:
fierce tulip
Can u wear two of the same dagger?
stoic needle
Yes
rustic whale
i believe assa will shine once we have 2nd lego and even more once we have 3rd lego
sour thunder
So that new passive was enough to fix it all?
fallen current
Yes as long as it doesn’t say unique-equipped
rustic whale
this exp will make us use 3 legos
rustic whale
altho CTTC limits SnD on 46secs
onyx wind
buff class -> fix bugs -> class too strong -> nerf class
rustic whale
i would like to see like outlaw 2mins SND
indigo mulch
I mean they have a chance of dropping it ;s sin rogues will never ever drop SnD unless they have to be away from the boss 😒
low girder
altho CTTC limits SnD on 46secs
goes up to 54 or whatever with deeper
rustic whale
yeh but i would love to see it uncapped lol
rustic whale
i suggested CTTC like many rogues before on forums
balmy condor
forums 
rustic whale
but i also suggested to RS to Assasin spec
onyx wind
u guys on forums saved us
rustic whale
RS would be make us yummy
rustic whale
no no it was really needed
because rotation was evolving around rupture and snd
envenoms were rare
strange python
hello guys, what trinket would you say is better UQD or shriekwing?
onyx wind
hello guys, what trinket would you say is better UQD or shriekwing?
in raids, shriekwing, in dungeons IQD
rustic whale
i mean they are still from 2016 lol
onyx wind
yea talents are a bit scuffed
strange python
in raids, shriekwing, in dungeons IQD
ty 🙂
stoic needle
If we got a talent rework on top of the rest of the chances we would be so sick
dawn ivy
id like to see alacrity get removed and something that effects TB
maybe TB gives you a shitload of energy regen inside the window
icy crater
Honestly the only row that kinda needs rework is the last one tbh
maybe a small bit of change on the first row
rustic whale
or making something us passively remove enrage effects atleast in PvE
stoic needle
Alacrity + CT baseline
New talents to replace them in their tiers
PB buff
Ezclap
dawn ivy
alazrity baseline would be too strong
rustic whale
PB if that thing is gonna stay, it needs to deal like %500 more damage
stoic needle
No it wouldn't
rustic whale
or better chance for proc
low girder
the non-alacrity talents just need to not be dogshit
icy crater
I know I said a few days ago I don't like exang
stoic needle
That's asking for a lot mata
icy crater
But now I kinda wish it was the go to
low girder
just in that row
low girder
exsang is awful without any borrowed power affecting it
dawn ivy
venom rush would be good if they basically doubled it
back when it was only 5 it was almost funny
stoic needle
It'd be easier to just make alacrity baseline and put some okay talent in there instead
Than to rework both exsang and venom rush to be good
Maybe add double dose onto venom rush
rustic whale
my thought is why don't they make Assasin spec deals like tripple amount of dps for ST only?
stoic needle
So it's 8 energy+ the poison extra dmg proc
rustic whale
it was sad to see no rogues in CN raid
low girder
why would you triple the dps of one of the highest ST specs in the game
stoic needle
System shock the PvP talent
low girder
it's been megabuffed
stoic needle
Should be an actual talent
dawn ivy
nah yeah triple sins damage
lament mica
triple amount of dps
icy crater
I think you'd assume tuning
rustic whale
😄
icy crater
along with talent changes
lament mica
rustic whale
because we do single target dmg while others busy with aoe
in the end we do the same dps 😛
yes i m a bad boi 😄
stoic needle
Sin doing 18k dps 
icy crater
And the reason why he's saying alacrity baseline
is because its a fucking boring passive
but it makes the rotation so much more enjoyable
and give us a nother button that does something
rustic whale
no no we need blindside as passive tbh
lament mica
or just don't worry about boomies padding and realize ur ST pumping 6k is much more valuable than the boomy padding for 10k in raids
icy crater
It's not buff assass cuz its weak
manic igloo
im stuck on wheter to make dashing, doomblade or zoldyck for purely m+...i hate choices like this lol
stoic needle
im stuck on wheter to make dashing, doomblade or zoldyck for purely m+...i hate ...
Zoldyck
low girder
don't make dashing for m+
stoic needle
Dashing in m+ 
rustic whale
zoldyck wont works on high key i would say. Mages and boomies are raping
manic igloo
im 100% noob....i liked the idea of poison stuffs
icy crater
is it 3 upgrades from 210->220 or 2
lament mica
3
stoic needle
zoldyck wont works on high key i would say. Mages and boomies are raping
Zoldyck gets better the higher key you go
Because the mobs live longer
slow marsh
zoldyck wont works on high key i would say. Mages and boomies are raping
Yeah this is fake news
stoic needle
is because its a fucking boring passive
Passives that are bis should just become baseline
icy crater
I disagree
slow marsh
I mean if you're getting carried by a mage and boomie then it doesn't matter what you're playing
stoic needle
You start feeling it at 14+ tbh
icy crater
I only kind of agree with alacrity because it's haste and it makes the spec feel better to play
slow marsh
But if you are playing together then it's extremely good because your mage and boomie don't have to carry every pack
icy crater
if it was a passive dot or something I wouldn't agree
stoic needle
I just feel like it's lame when the best choice talent makes you do less
Like buttons to press wise
The other talents are more effort for less gain
rustic whale
But if you are playing together then it's extremely good because your mage and b...
yeah my goal is max zoldyck once i have soul ashes. For now i did Doomblade to do better ST dmg. Zoldyck on 225 tho not bad
rustic whale
But if you are playing together then it's extremely good because your mage and b...
my friends carried me almost. But i finished with 6.7k dps on total dungeon. Yes i used Zoldyck
i m 219 ilvl btw
stoic needle
That's pretty good
rustic whale
i agree if targets live longer we do more dmg
that was where their cds are off and i shine
manic igloo
this is the thing here no one seems to agree on what to make lol
icy crater
my friends carried me almost. But i finished with 6.7k dps on total dungeon. Yes...
damn i fucking suck at m+
manic igloo
i just made Zoldyck and ill die on that sword
low girder
for M+ zoldyck and MA are your best bets
stoic needle
You made a good choice don't worry
rustic whale
damn i fucking suck at m+
as the gear up your dps also up
subtle tundra
do i join a +20 and play assa?
icy crater
im 224
rustic whale
oh
manic igloo
why not @subtle tundra assert dominance
subtle tundra
havent done any assa keys this week cause of spiteful
rustic whale
did u go as eloborate + CT? @icy crater
stoic needle
Yeah I've been playing outlaw this week
But playing outlaw with a 207 MH is almost inting
Good lord
gusty mirage
spiteful can literally suck a bag of dicks
shy dust
Zoldyck gets better the higher key you go
why is that
rustic whale
yeah i said that the same reason but i m not so good to make comments for keys higher than 15+
shy dust
its not the best arguement for zoldyck
to say higher key mobs live longer
makes it more value
when that also in a way makes zoldyck worse
neon stone
shy dust
its not like mobs living longer just instantly means they all will stay longer at 30%
subtle tundra
well
neon stone
i might jump to necrolord just for the memes
shy dust
mobs being in 30% longer
also makes your mage even stronger
which means it could lower your damage
so
bad arguement imo
subtle tundra
eh depends how you see it
rustic whale
i m with your arguement Rae but i don't know what to say for their suggestions
shy dust
i dont think it depends on how you see it
a blanket statement
for zolydkc gets better with high keys because they live longer
just doesnt hold up
unless you can somehow quantify that mobs would live longer on average and that the amount of time they spent under 30% was higher than total time spent on them
rustic whale
in my opinion Dashing would do more dps but i never had a chance to test it myself
strange python
I hate myself for not spamming tor every week man
Lesson learned
Wanna change my MA and Celerity to ring
And get the new BiS leggo on my mage
😦
stoic needle
More time in the execute phase = more time that you're doing 30% extra damage on your bleeds and poisons = more dps overall, no? Say a mob in a 10 key goes 100%-0% in 20 seconds because of a mage's combust. but in an 18 it takes 45. In the 10 key scenario it's much less time for your dots to tick doing 30% more damage than in the 18 key scenario
shy dust
doesnt that also apply vice versa
more time in 100-30
the actual % time in execute
would be roughly the same
strange python
Do our bleeds snapshot?
rustic whale
what i can say is , don't push yourself in M+ as assasin spec. Just do runs with 10+ and may be 12-14+. If you want to dedicate yourself to M+ just play Outlaw
strange python
On huntsman do you just dot both the mobs back and forth?
shy dust
yes you bleed both bosses on huntsman
balmy condor
Do our bleeds snapshot?
only with exsang/subt/nighstalker
strange python
Kk ty
icy crater
i am but
ep fucking sucks dick rn
with 0 energy in the entire game to use
dEePeRsTrAtEgEm
subtle tundra
what i can say is , don't push yourself in M+ as assasin spec. Just do runs with...
thats so wrong
lmao
strange python
only with exsang/subt/nighstalker
So prepot agi and a triple sub garrotte is huge?
balmy condor
So prepot agi and a triple sub garrotte is huge?
well no, the extra damage from subt is snapshot
it doesn't snapshot agi
rustic whale
why am i wrong can you enlighten me please? @subtle tundra
balmy condor
NS/subt is only the extra damage
stoic needle
the actual % time in execute
Proportionally it's the same but in seconds it's longer, meaning you get to do increased damage for longer which results in higher dps? Like how sin rogues catch up to other classes on p3 of denathrius
balmy condor
exsang snapshots haste
shy dust
Proportionally it's the same but in seconds it's longer, meaning you get to do i...
sin rogue catches up not just because of its "execute"
strange python
But stays that way