assassination

[onyx wind]

apart from perhaps alacrity

[limber lion]

So combo points do matter

[onyx wind]

Why do they matter

alacrity or?

[limber lion]

Because of variance factors

Especially in cleave occasions you might not have enough time to envenom between putting up bleeds on several targets

[worn path]

You could get a 1 cp snd off the hop and carry it for the whole patchwork sim but that’s not always the case in raid

[limber lion]

You might get parried

Or dodged

Or boss runs away for 2s

[onyx wind]

Its 18 seconds...

What are u doing

spinning around or what

or random DC maybe

[limber lion]

Aight

Can you link me sims

Of you comparing Muti and Ambush

And using SnD on 1/2/3+ combo points?

Exactly

You can't.

[onyx wind]

Good argument

[limber lion]

I would trust the theorycrafters who spend HOURS upon HOURS doing this every day

Instead of feelcrafting it

[onyx wind]

I cant link those sims cause the APL is written by people who think u always mut first

[twilit belfry]

There’s no chance ambush > mut lol

[onyx wind]

Im literally not feelcrafting it

[twilit belfry]

Just post a log playing it

[limber lion]

You literally are

That's the definition of feelcraft

[onyx wind]

Ambush deals more dmg and CP doesnt matter maybe outside of alacrity

[limber lion]

No sims = no evidence

[onyx wind]

Numbers arent feelings

[twilit belfry]

Less poison procs and less cp

[limber lion]

You need sims and evidence to back up your facts.

[onyx wind]

Logic isnt feelings

[limber lion]

Give us the sims

[twilit belfry]

Or a log

[onyx wind]

Ok let me sim 1 global for y0ou

Okay ambush simmed 1.8k dps

Mut simmed 1.1k dps

XD

[limber lion]

That's not how you compare them together

[teal bane]

Ambush simmed me 13k
and Mut 1.2m

[worn path]

Wait your ambush only hits for 1.8k??

[teal bane]

weird

[limber lion]

That's not taking into account poison, blindside, cp etc.

[onyx wind]

I guess the only reason would be maybe alacrity, which would make sense

We are obviously talking without blindside

as ive stated

[limber lion]

We have this emote in the server for people like you

[onyx wind]

3 times

XD

[limber lion]

[twilit belfry]

I’m used to losing brain cells in class cord but this is wildin’

[onyx wind]

I am taking poison into account

[limber lion]

Exeo is also very, very often arguing with people

[teal bane]

just post your sims

[limber lion]

It's like 80% of the time him vs someone else

[onyx wind]

and full doomblade bleed

[limber lion]

It's like he's doing it on purpose

Or trolling

Not sure anymore

[onyx wind]

Yea good point

[limber lion]

Once we see the sims we'll accept it

[lofty shell]

how much cp did the ambush create tho vs mut in a crit / non crit scenario

[limber lion]

Until you can't prove anything and you don't have any numbers to back you up, don't talk smack

[onyx wind]

You cast SnD so combo points dont matter

[limber lion]

These guys have done this thing for YEARS

[onyx wind]

the literaly only reason why mut might be better is cause of alacrity

[limber lion]

I'm sure they know a thing or two about simming, the apl and how the mechanics of the game work

[onyx wind]

Oversights happen

Where are the sims for mut vs ambush

and are they done with or without blindside?

[limber lion]

There has been dozens of them

With all talent setups

[onyx wind]

Im not questioning their existance

I just wanna see

[twilit belfry]

You could literally just go pull shriekwing

[limber lion]

You can ask Koji for them

Or

[twilit belfry]

Hit ambush instead of mut

[limber lion]

Just do it yourself

[twilit belfry]

And compare the log

[onyx wind]

Why are u all so bitter

Calm down man

[teal bane]

bcs you talk shit

[twilit belfry]

It’s not being bitter

[onyx wind]

no reason to be hostile

[limber lion]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki
here you go, learn a thing or two from there

Then sim yourself

[lost dawn]

I mean, he’s not talking shit, ambush deals more dmg than mutilate... so there’s some reasoning behind it

[twilit belfry]

Right as a single use ability

[lofty shell]

i dont get this tbh

how dont combo points matter

[worn path]

What talent other than alacrity are you running in tier 45?

[lofty shell]

more cp = more dmg

or am i wrong

[limber lion]

Exactly

[onyx wind]

You refresh it either way if you cast SnD

[icy crater]

More alacrity with more cp

earlier

[onyx wind]

Yea alacrity is what would make sense

[limber lion]

I can accept Ambush dealing more damage and being more useful when not using Blindside

But not without any proof

I also think there's an argument to be made for it

[lost dawn]

More chance for alacrity to proc, and poisons that’s about it

[limber lion]

And a high chance that it does better especially with CTTC in the game

[lofty shell]

refesh what with snd ?

u mean alacrity ?

[onyx wind]

whatever man

[willow isle]

Also why not double garrote with subterfuge? Does it not add more time to a second cast with 80% dmg boost? I just remember this from bfa

[limber lion]

But without sims, proof and the numbers, there's no point arguing

Go ahead and sim it yourself and then share your results here

Because your feelcrafting it

[worn path]

TLDR Bleed damage is poop now

[limber lion]

And we don't like that here.

[onyx wind]

Its one global, it doesnt affect the rest of the log

apart from alacrity

[limber lion]

Yeh, that's why I said earlier

[lost dawn]

Just use whatever you feel like @onyx wind , it’s not gonna make your log look like shit due to that

[limber lion]

That on a 20s sim or something, it's a 13dps difference

Literally nothing

Just use whichever you want

[onyx wind]

But my problem is you guys flaming people who are doing it

[limber lion]

If Ambush feels better for you, then use that

[onyx wind]

And telling people to always cast mut

Just like you just did to me

[limber lion]

No one is flaming anyone for using Ambush

[quaint phoenix]

Lol ppl ask dor advice which is given by this discord

[lofty shell]

well if casting mut > casting ambush then why shouldn't they say that

[twilit belfry]

I wanna see a log

[limber lion]

I literally said that you can use either or and it doesn't make a difference

And you went

[worn path]

Because it’s 14 dps better, and that’s what the discord is for. Spreading the correct info

[limber lion]

??=?=??+

XDD

[quaint phoenix]

If thats what you call flaming, you are freaking delusional

[limber lion]

Like chill

[onyx wind]

What...?

[onyx wind]

Do you know that you can refresh SnD duration by casting envenom?

[limber lion]

If you think there's an argument to be made for using Ambush instead of Muti, take it into #tc-research and provide sims and then they might apply it into the apl if it's an upgrade

[quaint phoenix]

XD

[lofty shell]

i still don't get why you mentionsnd in a discussion about mut vs ambush

[limber lion]

But as long as you're feelcrafting it, don't flat out say that it's better

[lost dawn]

Cus after opening you apply snd and then refresh it later on

[limber lion]

We'll change our minds when we see the numbers.

[onyx wind]

Im not saying its better, im trying to find out why its not

[limber lion]

But we need to see the numbers.

[onyx wind]

I dont care about being wrong or right, but 99% of u guys are bringing nothing meaningful to the discussion

[lost dawn]

So having a 3 cp snd or 4 cp snd is roughly the same in the ideal scenario

[onyx wind]

apart from circlejerking eachother

[limber lion]

I literally stated the reasons at least twice now

We also have a command for it

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[willow isle]

Can someone check first assa in sludge fight? I am on mobile but I can see him using ambush as a first spell

[upbeat tinsel]

[limber lion]

Also explained how 3+ combo points is better for SnD

And you went apeshit and not believing it

[icy crater]

You've taken the first step. You have a hypothesis, a good reason why it might be better, some reasons why it might not be better. Ceverion is saying the next step is to sim it because there is no point going further in the discussion.

[onyx wind]

"This is true for all talent combinations"

[limber lion]

Yeh

Where's the blindside argument now?

[onyx wind]

I literally dont care about being right or wrong

Where are the sims for EP?

[lofty shell]

ahh makes sense i thought it was after vanish or some shit lol

[limber lion]

They've been done, that's why it literally has that line in the command

[onyx wind]

Im not questioning their existance

dude

[twilit belfry]

[limber lion]

Here, I'll tag Kojiyama and he can provide you with the sims if he cares enough

@fleet anchor

[onyx wind]

I just want to see if they are done in a way where i can accept that its worse to cast ambush

[lofty shell]

[limber lion]

I'm sure he'll gladly also go over why 3+ CP is better for SnD.

[onyx wind]

Probably because of alacrity

[heavy skiff]

isnt it like 3am for koji?

[icy crater]

Also, if you don't care about being right, why do you care about the most marginal gain/loss in the entire rotation?

[coral imp]

i think at the end of the day u can just let him do what he wants and we can do our mutilate start

[limber lion]

"probably"

[onyx wind]

????

[willow isle]

So why top assa rogues open with ambush on mythic sludge? I started question on opener, but I did not think I will end up like this :D

[lofty shell]

3 cp snd is 60% chance to give 1 stack of alac?

[onyx wind]

Yes

Basically it depends on whether having a higher chance to proc alacrity outdoes the initial damage increase from ambush

statistically

[lofty shell]

i guess the whole discussion answers your question. Its prob more optimal to use mut, but using ambush isn't gonna make your parse grey

its same discussion in outlaw

"why are all top law rogues using quick draw and you all suggest ghostly strike"

[icy crater]

I mean ghostly is just pumps for ST

[onyx wind]

Sad that such stuff isnt welcomed in this discord

And you are just given a blanket statement and shunned if you dare to disagree

Or if you dare to hypothesise

[lofty shell]

i think most ppl in here only really believe what sims can prove

[icy crater]

That's not really happening tbh man,

[lofty shell]

esp since rogue apl is pretty dang good

[onyx wind]

Scroll up

[icy crater]

everyone is open to improvement that's the whole point of the discord

well everyone who is here in good faith

[onyx wind]

Its just sad

[upbeat tinsel]

heartbreaking, truly

can't wait for the film adaptation]

[icy crater]

I genuinely am not sure what your issue is.

[willow isle]

I am using ambush to opener because it is more dmg and it is usable bcs of subterfuge. But I am not sure if it is as effective as it sounds. Thats why I asked here :D

[worn path]

Whether the reason x, y or z it has clearly been done already. Whether it’s better because of alacrity or 5 other reasons, you should also be running alacrity so?? Use mut if you care that much. If you don’t use ambush lol

[icy crater]

I had a thought about outlaw

I got the APL, changed what I thought would be an improvement

[spice spire]

I’m definitely down to look at it later because points brought up can make sense.

[icy crater]

and it turned out to be a loss/even change in dps

[onyx wind]

Thanks for your input :D

[slender trail]

exeo, i agree that napkin-y style conversations are generally pounced upon in discords like this, and i don't really like it either, but it IS for a reason: to avoid the spread of misinformation. you may say "well I wasn't claiming it was true, it was just conjecture", but the 5000 random rogues that come in here every day may see it and say "oh, I should open with X or Y". i do wish there was a channel for open discussion. sometimes that's where the best ideas come from. that's just not how it generally is though (for the reason above)

[icy crater]

And the original reason why I did the test

Was because it felt weird/bad to do 1 thing in the rotation

aka feel craft

But I took the next step

I don't think people are shitting on you or dismissing your views entirely,

there's just a next step to be taken

[onyx wind]

I agree

[worn path]

Okay next topic, refreshing rupture 2-3 seconds earlier to get another envenom in the shiv window, yes or no

[spice spire]

We also tend to troll here in the discord a bit and that can feel condescending. I’m wanting to test your theory out later. Worst case is that it’s a wash, best case is a very minimal improvement which isn’t always a bad thing

[onyx wind]

What happened earlier wasnt "trolling"

[slender trail]

also re: opening with ambush vs mut, i think the reason it used to be a loss and may now be closer to a wash is that previously, those combo points you used on SND mattered (because we didn't have cttc). now, however, as long as you have as many CPs as it takes to open properly and extend snd (plus fill out that first rupture), it matters less.

[spice spire]

I haven’t read up to be fair. But in general, it is an issue lol

[icy crater]

The reason why this issue comes up so much is that ambush is undertuned

[onyx wind]

Exactly, which is why i thought the guidelines might be outdated. As far as i know, the main reason opening with mutilate is better is to have a higher chance of proccing alacrity in the 2nd global

Or atleast - the main reason in patch 9.0.5

Playing without blindside

[slender trail]

i think the best course of action would be to just modify the APL and test yourself. i could see it being a nominal gain, but iirc, i had a similar convo with the sim crew a week ago or so and it just wasn't worth the effort at the time (lots of bigger changes were being implemented and bugs were being fixed)

[spice spire]

But exeo did point out that ambush did do more damage. Which I’m quite interested in checking out for myself, or to see if it’s situational. Either way, could skew numbers on the whole thing

[final ferry]

In raid should I keep venthyr power to use it with vendetta? because of the energy boost of vendetta?

[onyx wind]

Ambush does more damage, even with a full doomblade bleed, which is why i got interested in this in the first place

[vital crown]

how much haste is too much haste

[onyx wind]

I sadly dont know how to do that, but i heard some people simmed it already

[worn path]

Less than 4.5 minute fight line them up. 5 or greater use them on CD separately

[slender trail]

sim, but it's a lot. you'll want to switch to DS at some point (if you haven't already) off of vigor, too. i just run vigor all the time because it feels better but my haste is also extremely low

[spice spire]

Use venthyr on cooldown, unless a phase is coming up soon. Like shriekwing’s blood thing

[icy crater]

Do you have any coding experience exeo

If you do, its not that bad

[onyx wind]

A bit, but last time i used simulationcraft was in legion

Using raidbots since

[delicate shale]

hey, im using naowh's plater profile but it doesnt show garrote on his plates, tried adding it to the tracklist but doesnt show... anyone here know how to fix?

[slender trail]

simc the app is just like raidbots, only with a few more buttons and a slightly more confusing layout. it'll make sense after like 5 minutes of poking around. as far as APL changes, those are easy to make too. however, making the one you want to make is hard because of how interwoven and complicated the logic can get. but worst case you mess it up and reset it to the default APL and try again

[steel bane]

it's probably blacklisted

[delicate shale]

cant seem to see it on there

[onyx wind]

I'll do my best and report back

[slender trail]

👍 imo just start small. first thing, import your char and sim normally. sim for st and dungeon slice. get familiar with where things are and how the tabs work. after that, maybe make a dumb apl change, like finishing at 2cp instead of 5 or whatever. sim and notice the diff. undo that change and maybe make another change or just jump in and try to find the mut-out-of-stealth line(s) you're looking for.

[onyx wind]

Time to use my own CPU instead of borrowing it :(

[mossy crown]

would you say 27% crit 24% hastes 18% mastery 18% vers is ok for m+?

[onyx wind]

Yea its good

[mossy crown]

would you suggest any tweeks if they could be?

[onyx wind]

Less vers

[brittle pawn]

Is your ilvl like 240? Idk how you have that many stats

[heavy skiff]

sim it in dung slice

[mossy crown]

nah it's only 217

[onyx wind]

Those stats seem a bit high then

[real birch]

what are some good WA to have as a vent/sin rogue

[brittle pawn]

8 lower than me but your stats are higher across the board by 4-5% ea

[onyx wind]

It is ALMOST realistic with a pvp trinket and 229

[mossy crown]

yeah cause I'm a moron

vers is only 9%

[onyx wind]

Then ur chilling man

Very good stat distribution

[mossy crown]

sweet

[lofty shell]

im sad that vers isnt that good

[mossy crown]

been playing outlaw so need to get up to speed with assassination

[onyx wind]

crit/haste are very good stats in general for assa

Maybe ill get to ur stat%'s after i swap my pvp rings out :(

[forest swallow]

How much haste do I want to run deeper over vigar

Or do I always run DS in raid

[onyx wind]

Are you venthyr?

[forest swallow]

He’s

Yes

[onyx wind]

Then im pretty sure its better by default almost

[lofty shell]

in my sims (venthyr, assa) 23% haste and vigor / DS sim 0.5% within each other

[iron orchid]

I think these are very good stats, as exeo mentioned, you could put some of your vers into crit instead, maybe even mastery, but for higher keys vers is very valuable for the tankiness it gives

[brittle pawn]

Pretty much always run it as venth in raid

[forest swallow]

I think my stats are 27 crit 18 haste 19 verse and idk my mastery

[onyx wind]

Yea, vigor is better on shorter fights where you wont get a 2nd cast of ur CD's

such as 2 minute fights

Even with venthyr

[lofty shell]

i just feel DS makes shiv windows awkward

sometimes cant get 2 envenoms off

[brittle pawn]

That's your fault

[lofty shell]

prob

[onyx wind]

It does make everything feel more awkward

Especially the opener aswell

[lofty shell]

with vigor i get 3 envenoms off tho

[onyx wind]

But its better so we pull through

B)

[forest swallow]

How is this opener for ST raid?

[lofty shell]

didn't like DS on outlaw either

[gloomy fern]

third muti is a no go

[willow isle]

Are you using shiv on cd right before envenom or only when you have 4cp?

[lofty shell]

me? i try to use shiv on 4 or max cp

i read that wasting that 1 cp from shiv is less important than getting full cp envenom in

[onyx wind]

3rd muti is questionable but might be worth doing if u have lust / running vigor

[final star]

shiv after rupture

[heavy skiff]

but if u have no cp and shiv comes off cd just use it

[final star]

with vendetta

then vanish > mut

[onyx wind]

if my 2nd mut gives 2cp, i cast another one to not have to refresh rupture in vendetta

[forest swallow]

@onyx wind ok that was from a guide running deeper. Are you saying to skip that and go into flag vent rupture?

[final star]

I personally wouldn't vendetta before I apply rupture

[heavy skiff]

i would cause of flag

[onyx wind]

I dont know whats better, but i usually try to have atleast 4 cp when i cast rupture

[forest swallow]

I macro flag with vendetta

[quiet juniper]

why aren't we using master poisoner with zoldyck lego in mm+ ? is it not a good combo ?

[lofty shell]

flag is lower cd than vendetta tho

[twin robin]

What does flag conduit changes with ilvl?

[forest swallow]

Yea I just mean for opener @lofty shell

[onyx wind]

TL:DR poisons suck

[fallen current]

bleeds 👌

[onyx wind]

partially cause FoK is bad

[lofty shell]

ahh ye i think my opener is a bit wonky

[twin robin]

Elaborated os much better

[onyx wind]

so you dont get many applications of it

Master poisoner might be better in the future with more crit

[quiet juniper]

FoK ?

[onyx wind]

fan of knives

but right now its bad

[forest swallow]

Ye I mainly play outlaw so idk just trying to get a feel for assassin for ST raid

[quiet juniper]

I don't quit see the correlation between FoK and master poisoner+ zoldyck, care to explain pls ?

[forest swallow]

fan feels so bad

[quiet juniper]

yea but what's the point ?

[twin robin]

Bump

[quiet juniper]

what does fan has to do with that ?

[final star]

the 10% damage boost from elaborate planning

is more than the MP boost

[quiet juniper]

so If i'm going for a crit/versa build would that works ?

[onyx wind]

FoK procs poisons more often than mutilate

On a large amount of targets

[quiet juniper]

oh you mean fok does not only aply poison it also procs the damage ?

[onyx wind]

But most of the time its not worth using solely because of the combo points it gives

More crit = more combo points from FoK on more targets

meaning u will use it in more scenarios over mutilate

[quiet juniper]

I get it thanks

and that's not what we want to do in aoe situation ?

[final star]

Katar also increases crit chance of fok by 5%

[wary ice]

the instant damage from deadly poison is from any proc after the first on a target.

[wet ruin]

@onyx wind there you go, unless I fucked up something
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nrWa8LUpioj29qaAwmyVsH

[rapid laurel]

Is haste still pretty king in m+ as well?

My garrote is always my highest damage

[onyx wind]

Thanks a lot, what talents were you running?

[quiet juniper]

I see and that build would be underperforming in mm+ ? even If I have master poisoner+poison bomb+ zoldyck ?

[wet ruin]

normal ones, blindside, ds, ma

[quiet juniper]

that seems hella fun with enought crit

[final star]

poison bomb is dog shit in aoe

[onyx wind]

Can you do one with EP instead of blindside?

[final star]

crimson tempest is far far more damage

like over a whole dungeon PB average 200-300k damage

crimson tempest will do 1M+

[quiet juniper]

even in a full crit build it wont proc nearly enough to compet crimson's damage ?

[final star]

no

[onyx wind]

Also poison bomb is very unreliable

[brazen rampart]

should i always be entering shiv with max combo points ready to envenom or does it not matter much?

[wary ice]

I didnt see the build but, in m+ maintaing EP uptime on packs is easy, and when EP uptime is high, its more value than MP. Poison Bomb's AoE damage is laughable compared to Crimson tempest, ESPECIALLY when paired with Zoldyck

[final star]

It's nowhere close

[wary ice]

So the build is just using Lower DPS options

[rapid laurel]

You can shiv at max combo or 4/5 or 5/6 doesn’t matter much

[quiet juniper]

Got it thanks guys

[rapid laurel]

Just make sure to pool energy before you shiv

[brazen rampart]

ok, not just max, but yeah enough to get an envenom asap

[fallen current]

its best at 4/5 or 5/6, but you still want to mash it on CD so even going over at max is still really good

[brazen rampart]

that's what i meant

[quiet juniper]

so is crit a dead stats for assa ?

[rapid laurel]

I usually pool at 3/5 or 4/5 combo points

If shiv is going to be up in 5 secs or so

[wet ruin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ud8M1KL1p58xv1jRqvWsjV

[twin robin]

St u wanna go haste for m+ crit is god stat

Due to fok crit cp generation

[quiet juniper]

let's go crit/versa on my zoldyck lego then is that correct ?

[rapid laurel]

But I feel like the reason you would bring an assa rogue over an outlaw is for the single target

And crit and no haste feels shut

Shit

On bosses

[twin robin]

On bosses yeah but it melts trash

[onyx wind]

Thanks a lot

[wet ruin]

np

[twin robin]

I tried crit mastery build today and that's fun for m+

[spice spire]

I wonder why it’s a loss. Not trying to beat a dead horse here. But it made sense. Getting the bleed form dB sooner maybe accounts for that 8-10 DPS? Idk. Definitely seems weird

[heavy skiff]

its within margin of error

so its prob just the same to change 1 mut for 1 ambush

[wary ice]

Its because you cant get to 4 CP w/ Ambush from vanish

The sims use MA

[spice spire]

But the logic behind it was - you don’t need the CP for your SnD anymore. Since your envenom will keep it up.

[wary ice]

So ambushing every stealth would be basically fucking up every MA window

[spice spire]

Ex’s logic was to ambush first and only the first time. And Mut the rest.

[wary ice]

Instead of Env->mut->env its probably like ambush ->env->mut

[brazen rampart]

is zoldyck worth crafting over doomblade specifically for denathrius prog, or does doomblade's overall still win?

[rapid laurel]

Zoldyck beat for prog

Best

[spice spire]

Execute is huge. Are you doing mythic prog for sire?- if so almost 100% zold

[wary ice]

Denathrius damage doesnt really matter until p3

which is when zoldyck shines

[brazen rampart]

not on sire yet but plan to reroll from sub/outlaw once slg is dead

[wary ice]

I would recomend Doomblade until you're consistently getting to p3

[quiet juniper]

how comes bloodfang and dashing are the best hectic add cleave ? should I follow that instead of going zoldyck for mm+ ?

[wary ice]

HEctic add cleave is a fake ass sim mostly

[spice spire]

No.

[twin robin]

Zodiac is a beat choice i think

[rapid laurel]

Hectic ass cleave is like aoe but your single target still does the most damage

[wary ice]

Oh i mean thats within margin of error because its literally 1 global in 5 minutes

[rapid laurel]

Add*

[spice spire]

Your DS and your multiple PW will give you a better idea

[quiet juniper]

got it ty

[spice spire]

I mean yeah, it’s very max-min-y. But it was an interesting concept at the very least imo

[wary ice]

I'm interested to see how much of a change doing mut-g-X ina subt vanish is (if thats not already the apl)

for the garunteed poison procs

but also probably bordering on negligble

[mossy crown]

so I'm well confused. Different guides say different things. Just watched Infexious m+ video and he states crit>mastery>vers>haste

[brittle pawn]

thats because his guide is shit

[mossy crown]

oooh

so ignore it

[lofty shell]

ye he says some weird stuff in his guides if you compare it to info on here

[mossy crown]

ok cheers

[lofty shell]

checj the guide on ravenholdt or wowhead i think they are pretty good

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[lofty shell]

tho i gotta admit seeing something rather than reading is sometimes easier to grab

[mossy crown]

yeah it is for me as well

[spice spire]

Also apparently there’s a creator JustRuss that Ceverion reviewed (upon a recommendation from someone here) and he said that it was a much better option to watch than infexxious (low bar I know)

[mossy crown]

there isn't a macro which applies garrote easier is there?

specifically to 3 targets

[worn path]

No sir, you must tab target quickly

[mossy crown]

/cry

[worn path]

Or click them if you have swift clicks

[worn path]

This is a more reliable option of getting garrotte on your priority targets than tabbing

[mossy crown]

yeah, might make the nameplates huge for easy clicks

[wary ice]

You can do a mouse over macro for that

[mossy crown]

oh

[wary ice]

if target shifting is weird to you

[worn path]

It would likely need a key modifier or other keybind tho, so you don’t garrotte random things if you lose track of your mouse. Judging by your question tho you’re struggling with quickly altering targets. Practicing by manually doing it is likely better for you in the long run

[misty holly]

I just tab target and the first 3 things get garrotted. Trying to click instead messes with positioning since I move with my mouse.

[upbeat umbra]

I try and squeeze that 4th garrote in when I can.

[onyx wind]

I did some simming, and it pretty much comes down to alacrity

The earlier u get ur first proc, the more haste u get

[misty holly]

same, but the 4th isnt empowered

[onyx wind]

The faster u get to 5 stacks

Meaning it kinda snowballs off the first alacrity proc

So the increased chance of getting the first alacrity proc outweighs the initial damage gain

[forest swallow]

servers still down zzzz

[spice spire]

Well. At least now we know! It’s better to go through the motions to learn it all for naught than to wonder idly. So I appreciate it!

But it is a more complicated solution than “more CP” but more CP is an easier concept for everyone to understand

[onyx wind]

I agree, its nice to understand why

[loud silo]

rogues always benefit more off spending at higher CP? its like that for all specs???

[onyx wind]

Not assa no

Or depends on what u mean

we dont get a refund like sub

But its always good to cast on high combo points

[loud silo]

the only reason not to is low point ruptures

the ONLY reason

[spice spire]

Uh. Technically not anymore

A one point SnD is fine

Because you’ll envenom it to max time nonstop

[loud silo]

no you wouldnt do that

ever

[spice spire]

Because of cut to the chase

[onyx wind]

We are talking about assa

It seems ur not, maybe?

[loud silo]

oh really i thought this was the sub channel...

[spice spire]

I see

[onyx wind]

XD

[spice spire]

That would be the case then, haha.

[loud silo]

im joking

[spice spire]

O

[onyx wind]

I dont really get ur question then; are you asking whether finishing on low CP is fine sometimes, or asking whether its good all the time?

[loud silo]

i wasnt asking a question

[onyx wind]

Since you can extend SnD with envenom, casting low CP SnD is good

[loud silo]

but when are you ever gonna spend 1 cp on SnD

[onyx wind]

Oh u were commenting on our discussion about alacrity?

Or what

[proven ice]

That’s why the opener is ambush snd mutilate

[onyx wind]

im so confused

[loud silo]

sort of

[onyx wind]

Its sadly always mutilate :(

[loud silo]

since when has the opener been ambush

[spice spire]

It hasn’t been. It was conjecture that was proven a minor loss. But there was logic behind it

[onyx wind]

Unless ur doing some weird build where ur not running alacrity or blindside, then youre free to pick

[sweet trellis]

I have a question about distract. Does it actually help to distract a mob, so that it is looking away from you? in other words do mobs have a fixed radius for detecting stealth or is it smaller on their back and bigger in front of them?

[proven ice]

Smaller on their backs

[onyx wind]

It does, yea

[spice spire]

It just turns out that the logic built into the kit countered the hypothesis.

[fleet anchor]

This is an awful lot of conversation about something that can be proven with minimal effort in SimC.
That being said, my advice would be not to make demands of others when you have a theory, if people provide references as to what it is currently and why it likely is, either accept it at face value or go out and prove it yourself. If people had to prove negatives all day long, it would take up everyone's time.
There's a time and place for but don't need to spend quite so much time and energy on it imo.

[onyx wind]

There is a difference between making demands and asking out of curiousity

But i get what ur saying

[winged moss]

assa master assassin talent affect everything btw?

[fleet anchor]

Like I get your theory exeo but I'd just recommend going and checking it out yourself because this is the type of change that would be pretty straightforward to make even as an intro into APL testing.

[thick briar]

Hi! Best covenant for assass now? Venthyr?

[onyx wind]

I would go and test it out, but i heard some sims were already made

Which is why i asked, since it would be a lot easier

[fleet anchor]

This is the type of thing that has been tested at some point or another multiple times, but it's not like people have sim variants for minor changes on tap to link for every random question, you know?

[onyx wind]

Im not expecting them to, or even demanding to

At all

I was just asking as it would make my life a lot easier

[fleet anchor]

Scrolling back, it just seems odd that there's like 1-2 hours of debate about something that is like a 30 second APL change. 🙂

[onyx wind]

Its 30 seconds if u know what ur doing.... i dont... :(

I got help tho, so its all sorted

[split veldt]

blizzard why long maintenance

https://tenor.com/view/let-me-in-eric-andre-wanna-come-in-gif-13730108

[onyx wind]

I wasnt questioning the sims anyone made at any point, i was mainly trying to figure out the logic behind it

[vestal wren]

don't hate on assassinations traditions 😛

[onyx wind]

Some people didnt like that, and maybe i shouldnt hypothesise in public

[ornate nymph]

for pvp, is mastery + exsanguinate any good? or is it haste no matter what

trying to gear up for both sub and assa but the stats are rough :/

[mint kindle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[bleak sedge]

What talents do you guys use for huntsman?

[forest wing]

sv up apparently PogU

[onyx wind]

Most people swap blindside for EP since u have more uptime

[wary ice]

#pvp would have a better answer for you I will say "probably not"

[onyx wind]

Some people also use subterfuge for the cleave

[wary ice]

I just use straight ST

and CT

[novel dragon]

yo question for you ass rogues- does the Mutilate bleed from Doomblade legendary proc the energy regen from venemous wounds passive?

[onyx wind]

It doesnt no

[fallen current]

lul. needed a better dagger. got a 226 mists dagger from box

[novel dragon]

I think no right?

😦

[onyx wind]

Would be nice if it did

[spice spire]

99% sure it does not

[novel dragon]

would be OP if it did haha but yea just checking

[final star]

It does say in the tooltip it's garrote or rupture only

[onyx wind]

When did they add internal bleeding to that list? In BFA?

[wary ice]

at least

[bleak sedge]

would you recommend using subt?

[loud silo]

probs not

ma opener is nice

[onyx wind]

I dont think subt is the deciding factor

Probably EP and CT are more impactful

[loud silo]

youre cleave isnt going to be great because of subt

[wary ice]

Subt is probably more damage period in that fight tbh

[onyx wind]

Most likely yeah

[wary ice]

MA the talent is pretty SNOOZE even on st

It barely beats subt

[wanton bridge]

Hi, playing sin rog as an alt, is MA or Zol better for m+ as first leggo ?

[wary ice]

a 2nd target that shares a health pool would make subt very strong imo

[onyx wind]

How do you guys open on ST with subt?

[shell wind]

hey guys, Blindside proc chance is per mutilate cast or mutilate hit? (the 20% chance value)

[wary ice]

If you're playing rogue as an alt I'd suggest MA: it works for all the specs pretty well in M+

if you still enjoy assa after that make a zol

[onyx wind]

cast

[wanton bridge]

Yah I'm normally a healer but we have a lot in the guild so wanted a reliable dps alt

[onyx wind]

either that or im very very unlucky

[wary ice]

I do M-g-snd

unless you mean the FULL opener

[shell wind]

😄 Thought so, thanks sir

[knotty sparrow]

should i re-make doomblade on shoulders and take these gloves, take the infinitely divisible ooze (already have 226 skullkers and 226 phial), or take the most regal signet (tons of haste on it)

[loud silo]

do not take ooze over your trinkets

[onyx wind]

thanku thanku

thats what ive been doing aswell

[serene basin]

Server is back online?

[knotty sparrow]

shhhhhhhhhhhhhh

😉

dont lag it up now

[wary ice]

You make doomblade on hands because M SLG shoulders exist

[onyx wind]

Yea it basically comes down to whether u think ur gonna kill SLG on mythic

[wary ice]

So if you dont expect to down M SLG this patch, and you have ash to burn you cuold consider swapping the leggo pretty comfortably

[knotty sparrow]

my guild already has but i dont raid with them

[onyx wind]

Those gloves look really juicy tho

[knotty sparrow]

the gloves look so hott man

[wary ice]

IMO its a waste of ash

[knotty sparrow]

i have 226 vers/haste shoulders

[onyx wind]

Yea i wouldnt do it cause of wasted ash

[knotty sparrow]

fair enough

[onyx wind]

But its up to you

[wary ice]

^

[onyx wind]

What ilvl are ur gloves rn?

[knotty sparrow]

190 doomblade 210 zoldycks 235 ma 235 celerity

[sleek sparrow]

just sim it bro

[onyx wind]

hmmm

what stats are on doomblade

[loud silo]

dont remake and sim

[knotty sparrow]

haste/vers 😮

[loud silo]

haste vers is fine

[knotty sparrow]

maybe i make crit/haste shoulders and get the gloves

???

[loud silo]

no

dont

just

sim it

[final star]

Stygia

[onyx wind]

simming it doesnt make sense in this scenario

[loud silo]

yes it does

[knotty sparrow]

of course crit/haste shoulders and gloves will sim better

[loud silo]

because there no reason to make a new leggo

[onyx wind]

what...

[knotty sparrow]

the gloves are bis stats though

the signet is nice too not gunna lie

[onyx wind]

Yea if any of the other pieces are big upgrades then ukno

Taking them might save u some time in torghast

[slow marsh]

Why are you even asking if you're not listening to anything people are saying

[knotty sparrow]

current sin pve rings

[slim wagon]

I mean. If you have Leggo for outlaw and doom on hands. Make the Doom shoulders for next tier of raiding. You have til like June/July.

[wary ice]

if you have enough Maw clout for sockets the Denny ring is porably better than the pepetual conflict one

[knotty sparrow]

hmmmmmmmmm

ok ty guys

[onyx wind]

all u

[rich patrol]

Is Kyrian still the best pvp covenant for rogues? Cant find any guides that arnt 3 months old.

[onyx wind]

I think most rogues are playing venthyr right now

[lilac sparrow]

pray for my 49th M+ for dagger

[onyx wind]

🙏 gl

[rich patrol]

Gl, 213 overall ilvl.... 200/197 daggers. I hope you get them

[knotty sparrow]

T_T

[lilac sparrow]

full 226 gears except 220/213 weapons

[novel dragon]

Another niche question- do trinkets like phial of putrefaction and bottled flayedwing toxin get buffed from our nature-damage enhancers like Shiv?

[onyx wind]

They dont

[sleek sparrow]

not having premium

[torpid spoke]

BOIS

226 PHIAL

HEHE

[fluid blaze]

i got the scrutable device 226 and a 226 offhand

[knotty sparrow]

someone in guild got a 233 dreadfire

hes like 'souligniter is better'

imagine

[stoic needle]

If you don't take that ring you are inting

[knotty sparrow]

wow really huh

almost done raidbots will see

[fluid blaze]

but the sims are telling me the trinket is better by 0.3% for ST than the offhand - would it be more worth to get the 220 offhand from valor at this point?

[knotty sparrow]

is the 226 offhand a pox?

[stoic needle]

You want to get rid of that pvp ring

[knotty sparrow]

yeah i figured

[fluid blaze]

you can't wear sword in offhand as Sin oO

[stoic needle]

Pvp gear is good bc ilvl but it's far from optimal for sin

[fluid blaze]

why would it be a pox lol

[knotty sparrow]

gloves+remaking doomblade on shoulders is a 57 dps gain

[fluid blaze]

thats a m+ build right there

[knotty sparrow]

ohhh shit i shoulda changed talents?

[onyx wind]

Its probably still a noticeable gain

[stoic needle]

Yes lmao

[fluid blaze]

well if you sim for ST yeah take ST talent ? Lol

[torpid spoke]

lol

[stoic needle]

Just take the ring man

[onyx wind]

But yea it makes more sense if ur planning to raid with it

[torpid spoke]

226 right right?

or 220

[stoic needle]

What do you mean by you don't raid with your guild

[knotty sparrow]

yeah i was specced for m+ crap

running again........

[stoic needle]

How hard would it be to just get in for slg

[knotty sparrow]

probably not hard

but probably not soon

[stoic needle]

If that's the case it would be a big mistake to remake imo

[knotty sparrow]

i think they want to get all the core raiders geared first

[onyx wind]

killing SLG on mythic as an assa rogue is a very hard thing

only 18 people have done it in the past few weeks

atleast publicly

[stoic needle]

Respec to outlaw for slg? Can't be that hard

[knotty sparrow]

yeah i would go outlaw for slg

[stoic needle]

Regardless it would be a mistake to waste the gold and ash when it is possible for you to get slg shoulders even if it isn't soon

[knotty sparrow]

you might be right yeah

[stoic needle]

In the meantime there are decent 226 shoulders you can get from the vault with better stats

That would be equivalent to those gloves you have in vault

[knotty sparrow]

are there crit/haste shoulders?

[fluid blaze]

I simmed both and the trinket is better than the dagger(offhand) by 0.3% - would it be better to farm the trinket and Valor it to 220 or Valor a dagger to 220?

[knotty sparrow]

the trinket is probably way better in m+ than ST

[onyx wind]

I want an IQD :(

[fluid blaze]

i dont care about m+ as sin

[knotty sparrow]

even as outlaw its pretty good

[stoic needle]

You probably want the dagger

[fluid blaze]

outlaw is still better in m+

[onyx wind]

Easier to farm trinket than dagger

[knotty sparrow]

yeah 226 dagger and 220 iqd

instead of 226 iqd and 220 dagger

[stoic needle]

Sin is A tier in m+ now :^)

[fluid blaze]

I have the raiding lego as sin not the m+ one so

[stoic needle]

I'd have to check but I'm 99% sure there are

[onyx wind]

I dont think there are

[knotty sparrow]

the ring is a DPS loss on ST

you trollin me

[stoic needle]

That's within error margin on the sim

Its equivalent

[knotty sparrow]

lol

[stoic needle]

Regardless gearing for the short term is a mistake imo unless it's gems and enchants

[knotty sparrow]

the thing is i also have bad pvp shoulders and pvp gloves

and pvp itemized doomblade gloves

[stoic needle]

My doomblade gloves are haste vers too and it's fine

It just means you gear for more crit in the rest of your gear

[knotty sparrow]

screw it i'll take the ring

no wait

[onyx wind]

Well u can also think of it like this

if u take the gloves u will never replace them

B)

[stoic needle]

Are you ever going to use other sin legendaries? It could be ok to take them for that if you use zoldyck or whatever

But I wouldn't recraft your doomblade

[brittle pawn]

still no weapon

[onyx wind]

is it 235 or 190 tho

[knotty sparrow]

190

[stoic needle]

I just don't think it's worth it to recraft doomblade for 50 dps but then be 30 dps behind if you got slg shoulders and then need to rank up your doomblade gloves

[onyx wind]

I think

If i was in ur situation Dossi, with no real chance of getting SLG mythic shoulders, i would recraft

But i also spend a lot of time on this game

And i care a lot about min/max

[misty holly]

Look at the M+ loot tables. 3 gloves with good stats and 1 bad. 1 shoulder with good stats and 3 bad. If you gear up in M+ it is must better to craft Doomblade shoulders.

[barren birch]

Sorry to ask that but where can I find info about simming with the vault's possible rewards?

[onyx wind]

@barren birch Do you have the simc addon?

[barren birch]

I do

[onyx wind]

If so, they should be added to the list of items in your inventory when you open the vault

[loud silo]

how is it hard tho

[onyx wind]

And u can sim them easily like that

[onyx wind]

I was joking sir

dont kill me :(

[lilac sparrow]

going 50th

[barren birch]

I see. I'll give it a try. Thanks

[loud silo]

wheres your faith in our rogue brother

[stoic needle]

the vers/haste shoulders from M+ are good too

[brittle pawn]

how have i lost 100 sim dps since last week

no food ree

[stoic needle]

vers is important in m+ especially in high keys unless you like getting one shotted

[spice spire]

I love getting one tapped

[stoic needle]

[onyx wind]

Just feint LOOOOOOL

[spice spire]

Mood

[onyx wind]

:(

[topaz saffron]

I have cheat death actually 🙃

[stoic needle]

i guess the game just wants me to have every poison trinket in the game huh

oh well at least these legs are good to go with my doomblade set

kinda wish they were 226 but i can't complain

[onyx wind]

I thought u said vers is important :)

Pick the ring :)

[stoic needle]

vers mast

my rings already have vers

[onyx wind]

same :(

farming for a socket so i can use the PF ring

[stoic needle]

yeah that one is sick

i need to upgrade mine

[onyx wind]

more crit = less feel bad

and its only 750 valor to upgrade

to 220 from 210

feelsgood

[stoic needle]

isn't it 1200?

210>213>215>220

400x4

[onyx wind]

No i think its 250 pr upgrade

[stoic needle]

nah its 400 for rings

[mystic peak]

its 250

[onyx wind]

U sure, i remember checking not long ago

Maybe im just blind

[stoic needle]

i upgraded a ring already and i couldve sworn it was 400

[stoic needle]

huh guess i'm wrong then

[onyx wind]

I ran to check and u post it before me...

[stoic needle]

lmao

yeah that ring is a downgrade for me lol

so is the toxin

28% crit absolutely GAMING

[brittle pawn]

vers gang

[livid temple]

fuck i wish i could drop some of my versa, when does Crit start hitting the diminishing returns? 25 or 30%?

[brittle pawn]

everything dr at 30

except mastery because different scaling

same rating though

[spice spire]

We gang now?

[onyx wind]

Oh is it at 30%?

[lament dove]

!bis

[onyx wind]

Thats a nice way to tell

[spice spire]

Also phial check gamers

[stoic needle]

it could still be good even at 30% though

[brittle pawn]

its only reduced by like 10%

[stoic needle]

yeah

[livid temple]

ahhhh okay, my crit is just at 25% but my haste is about to hit 30

[onyx wind]

If u reduce the value of crit by 10%, its still a lot better than vers/mast for me

Crit to the moon

[spice spire]

I was lucky and got the 223 arachnid ring two weeks ago.
Never phial or weapon though

[stoic needle]

any phialers?

[spice spire]

I’m 💠 🙌 vers

[onyx wind]

Same, my vault stuff consists of belts and shoulders

and pants

[spice spire]

226 when tho

[onyx wind]

gang gang

[stoic needle]

[strange python]

How bad is the toxin trinket?

[spice spire]

It’s fine. Sim it. If it’s a huge upgrade go for it.

But in the realm of dungeon trinkets it’s aggressively mediocre

[strange python]

Yeah it looks to be behind phial, the raid trinkets, and ooze

[onyx wind]

any 226 battery users?

no?

ok

[stoic needle]

ngl battery looks sick with flag

[onyx wind]

Its kinda good on 2 min fights

[stoic needle]

i used a 213 one for a long time

[onyx wind]

Better than any other active trinket than IQD for me

at 220

226*

[stoic needle]

if you pop it with flag it basically guarantees that you get a lot of stacks

[icy crater]

inerva ring AND 226 dagger from box

and 226 bis stats cloak

jesus

[stoic needle]

[onyx wind]

Suffering from success :(

[icy crater]

ring is 104 dps upgrade lmao

[onyx wind]

And its an easy socket

[stoic needle]

inerva ring/sire ring the dream

[icy crater]

also 220 dreadfire but already have xd

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nsak43hwyb67e9Sov7MRbm 6.7k gang

i love how envenom and melee are at exactly 17.7%

[onyx wind]

hit faster

[icy crater]

So I think I buckle down and get 100 more rating this week for the 226 dagger

and I take ring from box after we reclear this week if I don't get

[onyx wind]

Sounds reasonable

[icy crater]

5head play

[onyx wind]

I traded a socketed inerva ring away

I will never forget

[icy crater]

uh

what could be worth that

[stoic needle]

[steel bane]

so, valor points doesn't reset weekly ?

[brittle pawn]

[onyx wind]

Playing sub, before assa got buffed

[icy crater]

ah

[stoic needle]

No it's a seasonal cap like conquest

That's a big F

[steel bane]

interesting

[onyx wind]

The exact week before assa became better than sub

B)

[icy crater]

ok thats even worse lul

[onyx wind]

And we are extending zzz

[icy crater]

I don't think we're extending yet

after council we will I think till the end

[burnt star]

Ehh i got a triple duplicate from earlier vault all in the same vault

2 belt. And 1 boot

Still need helm/neck/trinket/ weapon

Sad vault rng

[stoic needle]

Better get to farming

[marsh yew]

have any of you randomly got kicked out of stealth in torghast when nothing hit you and you get cheat death procced but you're still at full hp?

cause that just happened to me

[stoic needle]

No I've never had that happen to me

[marsh yew]

and details also says nothign hit me

[heavy skiff]

search for healing done and see what cheat death healed u from

maybe u can see something there

[bleak eagle]

Any chance some can help me with my vault loot?

[wide ridge]

spiteful week, time to get benched

[lilac sparrow]

50 M+ no dagger

no more energy

garbage game

[white jetty]

dont worry, no dagger for me since shadowlands release:D

[thorn turtle]

Wait, so valor is capped at 5k?

[sleek sparrow]

they added on 750 today out of kindness :^)

[loud light]

yes earning valor works like conquest points

[white jetty]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[grim sable]

is it time to switch to sin

[brittle pawn]

pawn

[split veldt]

yay 213 lashing

[white jetty]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[high arch]

Hey guys, which soulbind/conduits do you run for dungeons?

[untold gazelle]

Is assa viable with only one dagger or i should wait 15 months for a second dagger?

[stoic needle]

you can't mutilate without 2 daggers

[untold gazelle]

Meh

[mint quest]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[frigid kestrel]

I vaguely remember having a weapon swapping macro for sin a while back to get around using mutilate

I ain’t know as much as I did about sin today, but someone told me it was the jam so I used it

[burnt star]

U can realisticly play with a 200-213-220 oh dagger without too much dps loss tbh

Not gonna stop u from doing top 50 parse

[untold gazelle]

I have a 197 spare dagger sleeping, might try

[crude flame]

That was back when you stacked deadly to 5, then swapped to a weapon with instant (if I remember correctly)

[frigid kestrel]

This sounds about right

[verbal sparrow]

wait so it's haste/crit or haste/versa

[high arch]

!conduits

[frigid kestrel]

It was a long time ago so my memory is super hazy

[burnt star]

Rofl so u weapon swapped for finisher?

[frigid kestrel]

Sim, either is good though

[cinder cape]

What stats do i make for doomblade ?

[burnt star]

Crit/haste for.me was the best choice

[frigid kestrel]

Crit/haste or Vers/Haste

[burnt star]

I swapped from law gear. So i had high vers already

[serene basin]

should i have at least 1 agi gem on my gear?

[heavy skiff]

sim it

[frigid kestrel]

Like I said I can’t remember when I swapped it, but it was legit a thing at one point in time

Back when Combat existed and Outlaw was the idea of some 7 year old kid destined to work at blizzard and pitch awful ideas about pirates

[burnt star]

Haha.

Pirates

[cinder cape]

Thank you im in the same boat swapping from outlaw haha

[upbeat pike]

guys, where should i craft the doomblade leggo?

[ionic cave]

gauntlets

cause of raid shoulders

[upbeat pike]

thanks

[clever scroll]

Hey so I’m pretty new so bare with me 😂, can you stack the same DoT on the same person multiple times?

Like if you used envenom twice , does that put 2 dots or just refresh the original dot

[dull cloak]

no dots on sin stacks, everything just gets refreshed

[broken steppe]

Finally!

[dawn belfry]

could i put celestial guidance in my MH and Sinful in my OH and it have the same PPM as the reverse? i use the MH dagger for my OH in outlaw and i wan't celestial guidance on that weapon.

[marsh yew]

also envenom isnt a debuff it is a buff on yourself

[dawn belfry]

@broken steppe grats man i got the exact same!

[balmy condor]

gratz

[safe barn]

im so sad that i did my lego hast/vers instead of hast/crit

[balmy condor]

it's the same proc rate, they're both buffs

[dawn belfry]

thanks!

[molten harbor]

Ok. I heard rumors that sin rogue may be ok again. Is this true?

[broken steppe]

Thanks all!

[limber lion]

Imagine not having a 248 weapon already jk, grats!

[balmy condor]

yes

[molten harbor]

Thank god. Sub Rogue made me stop playing rogue all together. What covenant is BiS?

[marsh yew]

might wanna check the pins 🙂

[molten harbor]

Ohhh, I was looking for a FAQ page xD

[cloud dune]

sub feels so much better than sin for me

[onyx trail]

Still have to wait for torghast rotation for leg drops?

[balmy condor]

you can run twisting over and over

until you get the area you'd like

[onyx trail]

ty

[empty karma]

so people liking sin now?

been on the cusp of going back from sub

[knotty sparrow]

sin funnest spec right now imo

vendetta flag the sub rogue in pvp watch him vanish and be confused as to why im still killing him

[thorny rose]

some people think sin is boring, some like it more, i like it the best personally

[knotty sparrow]

barely anyone knows vendetta lets you see stealth

[empty karma]

and still viable in raids and m+?

[knotty sparrow]

sin ST very strong right now

outlaw still the best in m+

[thorny rose]

^^

[empty karma]

❤️ ty

[untold gazelle]

guys I was talking about waiting 15 months for a second dagger, Had only one vault loot this week (226). DAGGER

[safe barn]

when upgrading a leggo you can change the missives

nice to know htat

[stoic needle]

the old complaining method

[stoic needle]

no you can't

[safe barn]

oh yeah you cant

got jebaited

[spice spire]

King stuff.
Grats 🙏

[wide ridge]

holy shit 1 choice and you got it, gratz

[untold gazelle]

exact same shit mate! gg

[wary ice]

SMH how u gunna say finally and do 1 15 a week

[spice spire]

Last week might have been an off week

[fading wigeon]

I just finished the prove your worth part 2, but it wont let me turn it into draven

anyone else have this issue?

[balmy condor]

yo tru

[brittle pawn]

welp

back to outlaw for keys this week

[stoic needle]

imagine not running plaguefall until your eyes bleed

i just want a pox man

[molten harbor]

Ok. So where do I go to swap covenants?

[balmy condor]

my vault keeps giving me ilvl upgrades, but it's all mastery

[balmy condor]

enclave in oribos

[molten harbor]

ty

[spice spire]

Per osh, mastery is bis stat

[balmy condor]

I fucking hate this lmao

[stoic needle]

Man wtf

[stoic needle]

Other people say it more than I do

[spice spire]

Oh no

[thorny rose]

yeah enclave just walk up to the covenant representative you want to join

[stoic needle]

GANG GANG

[molten harbor]

I found it! tyty ❤️ Super happy that sin rogue is ok again 😄 Have been missing it a ton

[wary ice]

i read your equipment sets as "sin-sin-single"

[balmy condor]

:P

[wary ice]

like the c-c-c-ombo breaker

[balmy condor]

it's honestly just a zold/doomblade swap

but I can't be fucked to do it by hand

[wary ice]

Leggo swaps are tough no judgement tbh

takes 9 years to do

[stoic needle]

I got the top legs this week, crit mastery

[spice spire]

Hate that

[stoic needle]

They replaced 213 legs so I'm happy with it

[wary ice]

im excited to open my box to capes and wrists again :/

[stoic needle]

I have 28% crit now

[balmy condor]

I have a heavy mast neck, and a heavy mast ring

wtb death

[spice spire]

Heavy mastery neck, luckily that’s it.
And SAME dog

[onyx wind]

Im gonna get 226 crit/haste ring in vault tomorow

Or 226 phial

[stoic needle]

I think if I got crit wrists and crit belt I could be at 30% crit

[onyx wind]

i socketed vers/mastery wrists B)

[stoic needle]

I socketed my 213 pvp gear and then stopped pvping

[signal gulch]

having 439 mastery

[balmy condor]

I'm with you man

[stoic needle]

[halcyon zealot]

only 8 vers 😮 damn

[hollow escarp]

[spice spire]

Mastery D colon

[halcyon zealot]

my gear is so cursed from gearing sub

i have vers on every fucking piece

[balmy condor]

I've been sin for a while now

most of that vers stuff is gone

[hollow escarp]

but I've heard a certain streamer that mastery gear is good for m+

[inland heath]

help

[spice spire]

In the immortal words of Castilian Nicklaus “stop this nonsense at once!”

[cosmic prism]

how is it that most popular rogue content creators are banned here

are rogue mains cursed?

[balmy condor]

honestly would take the ring

[spice spire]

Rings good tho

[hollow escarp]

who is banned here?

[spice spire]

Probably best, but ez to sim and see what’s best at the moment

[balmy condor]

well they're not banned per-say, we just try to not talk about them because they spread a lot of nonsense

[hollow escarp]

btw, my message didn't got deleted by a bot lol